Latest / My Favorite Things / My Favorite Things Episode 7: Andy Pearson

Transcript

My Favorite Things Episode 7: Andy Pearson · My Favorite Things

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Andy Pearson, thanks for being here.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for having me.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_02: This is awesome.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_02: I love the idea behind this whole thing.
• 0:06
  yeah it's it's super fun it's very anti-algorithm uh just get
• 0:11
  just get suggestions
• 0:12
  from your friends type of thing yeah well you really have to
• 0:16
  distill down like what
• 0:18
  who you are it was it was a lot it was a lot of work i like
• 0:21
  switched out my list
• 0:23
  five different times in my mind because i wanted to get it
• 0:26
  right you know did you
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_02: really i have a friend i asked to be on here and she has like
• 0:31
  three separate lists that she sent me and she's like i don't
• 0:34
  know this is going to
• 0:34
  be really difficult i'm like yeah you know what you can pick
• 0:37
  them or i can pick
• 0:38
  them you know we want to make this so so yeah so we have your
• 0:43
  list of five things
• 0:45
  um we might as well get into it right um back to the future too
• 0:50
  i think is a is a
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: fun movie pick i'm curious maybe it's an age thing but
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: Two is not a, you know, a lot of people know Back to the Future.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: Not as many people know Back to the Future 2.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: What's the story with that?
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's a little bit kind of personal because it was one of those.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: My parents taped movies off of like ABC onto VHS,
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: when it'd be like on like running on live and then they would tape it.
• 1:25
  And so that's how we had movies in my house growing up was we
• 1:29
  didn't pay for movies.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: We like tape them off of TV.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I had like Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure for some reason.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then all the three Back to the Future movies.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so anytime I was home sick when I was younger growing up,
• 1:47
  I would pop in those movies and those would be what I watched
• 1:51
  all day when I was
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: sick.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: But I think too...
• 1:55
  is such a fascinating movie because it's kind of,
• 1:59
  it's twisting all these different timelines.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: And what I really loved was the future aspect of it,
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: where they go,
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: into the future into,
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: what was it,
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: 2014,
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: And in retrospect,
• 2:16
  what I think I love so much about that was they incorporated
• 2:20
  all these real brands
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: into it,
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: where in the future it was like the Pizza Hut pizza,
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: she's like...
• 2:28
  rehydrate level four please his mom and they have like a texaco
• 2:33
  gas station and
• 2:34
  they have all these like brands that they brought into the
• 2:36
  future and imagine what
• 2:38
  they're gonna feel like you know 30 years into the future and i
• 2:41
  think as a kid that
• 2:43
  was just really cool to see and and i think it makes the movie
• 2:46
  even more compelling
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: and like and again now that like i am in
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: advertising and marketing, I think there's some kind of magic there.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: It was kind of maybe one of the first times I noticed brands in a way.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, it just, it's so, I don't know.
• 3:02
  I think they did such a good job of just imagining what the
• 3:04
  future could be,
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: and making it feel real,
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: you know?
• 3:09
  So what,
• 3:10
  what age are you like doing laps on this VHS tape of back to
• 3:13
  the future too?
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like probably like six or seven, maybe.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: Gotta be.
• 3:21
  maybe like maybe like seven eight okay okay and that what year
• 3:26
  is that that would
• 3:28
  be like early 90s early 90s yeah and those are back to the
• 3:32
  future too speaking of
• 3:34
  product placement that's the there's the nike pair of shoes
• 3:37
  that they're on like
• 3:38
  stock x for like twelve thousand dollars like you can buy them
• 3:41
  right because they
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: made a few pairs of them right they did
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: There was a big, it was, it was for 2014.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think they, they like all the brands did something that year.
• 3:53
  It's actually disappointing because I was working on pizza hut
• 3:57
  at an agency,
• 3:58
  at an ad agency that year and we just totally missed it and
• 4:01
  didn't even do anything
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: with it.
• 4:03
  It's like one of my big regrets that we never did it back to
• 4:06
  the future to tie in.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: That's such a bummer for like, you really let young Andy down there.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like I really messed up on that one.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: You should, you could have fought for that one.
• 4:18
  Um,
• 4:19
  so yeah,
• 4:21
  as far as,
• 4:22
  uh,
• 4:23
  that sort of movie now that you have kids,
• 4:25
  uh,
• 4:26
  Is that something you're like showing your kids or going to
• 4:29
  show your kids and be
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: this is,
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: this is one of,
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: this is really instrumental in my upbringing.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: This is real American cinema.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:41
  I feel like anytime you put pressure on it though,
• 4:45
  well,
• 4:45
  my kids don't like movies.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's the other problem.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: I have a four year old and a six year old and they, they,
• 4:51
  actually hate movies um they the only move the only movies well
• 4:57
  they'll they'll
• 4:58
  watch like all day they'll watch like uh opening up a ancient
• 5:03
  egyptian tomb and
• 5:04
  seeing all the the old mummies and creepy skeletons and stuff
• 5:08
  but like movies
• 5:09
  because it has uh like rising action and intensity and stuff
• 5:15
  they get really
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: freaked out by it for whatever reason
• 5:18
  so the only the only movies they watch are that we figured out
• 5:23
  that they can watch
• 5:23
  are movies from like disney in the 50s and stuff when there's
• 5:26
  no plot line like uh
• 5:30
  mary poppins or the absent-minded professor where it's just
• 5:34
  black and white and
• 5:35
  nothing happens so one day i hope to show my kids these movies
• 5:41
  but it feels like
• 5:43
  it's going to be a few years because they're just they're like
• 5:45
  actively against
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: movies
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: They might age.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_02: They might age into it a little bit.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: I hope so.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_02: Although I was talking to my neighbor the other day and he's,
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: I think he's in late forties,
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: early fifties.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: And he was trying to tell me about his wife's new cafe.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: And she's like, he's like, do you like pie?
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I just about said, who doesn't like pie?
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: And he goes, I don't like pie.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_02: And he goes, I don't like fruit.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, dude, you're.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_02: You're old to be like taking out an entire category of food.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, well, do tomatoes count?
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: I go, they're technically fruit.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, well, I like tomatoes.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: So who knows?
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you can stick with that stuff your entire life.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: I had a coworker who told me he didn't like music.
• 6:30
  which i i'm like how is that possible man you literally just
• 6:34
  don't enjoy music that
• 6:36
  nothing connects with you he's probably a psychopath this is
• 6:39
  this is previous job
• 6:41
  or right now previous job yeah okay yeah i was like you gotta
• 6:44
  fire you gotta fire
• 6:44
  that person man that's like that's not cool yeah unless there's
• 6:48
  some sort of story
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: behind it um so
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: There's three movies in the series.
• 6:57
  Do you think it's just because it was available you are so
• 7:02
  attached to Back to the Future 2?
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_02: Or what are your feelings about 1 and 3?
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_02: Good question.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: 1 always gets held up.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: The plot line of 1...
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: is insane.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: It, it's, you know, it's like, I love reading about it.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: I love, I'm, when I dive into movies, I get all nerdy about them.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: The original,
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: the original plotline instead of DeLorean,
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: it was a refrigerator that Doc Brown and Marty McFly get into.
• 7:33
  That was how in the original manuscript,
• 7:35
  it was a refrigerator,
• 7:37
  um,
• 7:38
  with a flux capacitor on it.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: um i mean the i i guess like i never really connected with like the 1950s
• 7:46
  sensibility in the original in the first one as much as the
• 7:50
  kind of future looking
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: version and into and i and i also loved into that um
• 7:59
  that they go back to 1981 and then because they found the
• 8:06
  sports almanac and Biff
• 8:08
  gave it to himself that the whole world is destroyed and turns
• 8:12
  into this awful
• 8:13
  empire where Biff Tannen is running the whole place and it's
• 8:16
  like biker gangs.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's such a great premise on the world being destroyed.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's a whole weird Trump parallel to that whole thing on...
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: On that,
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: I always,
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: when I first started Liquid Death,
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: actually,
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: I was trying to figure out,
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: how we did,
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: why and how we did things the way we did.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I had this whole theory.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: I pitched this to my boss, and he was like, no.
• 8:50
  But I have this whole theory that Liquid Death is a product
• 8:57
  from the Biff Tannin 2 timeline.
• 9:01
  I actually pitched this to him and he was like,
• 9:03
  no,
• 9:03
  don't say that again.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: But I was like,
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: liquid death is just like water,
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: how you'd market water in the Biff Tannin 2 timeline.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: And we just do it really straight.
• 9:15
  We're like very straight faced because that's how you do it in
• 9:18
  that timeline is
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: that you have heavy metal and has skulls on and does,
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: whatever.
• 9:24
  So for when I was first starting off,
• 9:25
  the Biff Tannin 2 timeline like really helped me.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: try to sort out my job when I first got here.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's like one of those...
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's like one of those things you hear.
• 9:37
  It exists in your brain for creative work,
• 9:40
  but you haven't shared it with very many people.
• 9:42
  It's like things you find out musicians were like reading or
• 9:46
  listening to when they
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: made this classic album and like,
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_02: oh,
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_02: okay,
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_02: I can see that now.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_02: That's fun.
• 9:54
  This is also,
• 9:54
  you have this list of five creative things that we're going to
• 10:00
  talk about.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: This is only movie on your list.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 10:05
  did you consciously pick that as the one movie or would you
• 10:08
  even say it's your
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_02: favorite movie of all time?
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's probably my favorite movie.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: So also like, also I'm very partial to Jurassic park as well.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm obviously of a certain era,
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: but I mean that,
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: that thing is such a masterpiece when you go back and watch it.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's so funny that that's it.
• 10:28
  That movie is so funny,
• 10:29
  which I,
• 10:30
  I didn't,
• 10:31
  I don't know that I realized as a kid,
• 10:33
  um,
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's almost a comedy when you watch it.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_02: And what would you say it's unintentional comedy?
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: No, I mean, it's Spielberg.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: So it's, you know, it's, he's, he's kind of creating, it's fun.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's meant to be fun.
• 10:51
  Even if it was,
• 10:52
  you know,
• 10:52
  terrifying velociraptors trying to rip your face off and stuff.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm obviously,
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm that,
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: that was a movie that was,
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think that was the first movie I thought saw in,
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: It was my first PG 13 that I went and saw with my parents.
• 11:07
  They went and they went and like saw it first without me to
• 11:10
  make sure it was okay
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: that I could go see it.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then they brought me to it.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: It was a big, it was a big deal.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: I could see that.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: You know,
• 11:17
  I think a lot more people would say that that would agree with
• 11:20
  you using the word
• 11:21
  masterpiece to describe Jurassic park and then using the word
• 11:24
  masterpiece to
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_02: describe back to the future too.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: No offense.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's okay.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: I get it.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: We should be able to love things because we love them.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: Should we move on to number two is Calvin and Hobbes?
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: Which is, you know, when our son was going to be born...
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_02: I think it was six months before his due date,
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: I bought like 30 or 40 books,
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: just like,
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_02: just went on a rampage.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like this kid's going to grow up with books.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: And,
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: uh,
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: that was one of the,
• 11:56
  one of the things I bought was one of the collections of Calvin
• 11:58
  and Hobbes.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, this is, this is essential, you know?
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: What, um, what age are you when you first encounter Calvin and Hobbes?
• 12:08
  probably slightly after the back to the future two age probably
• 12:14
  you know and you
• 12:15
  know eight and nine and and ten and um yeah i mean i as as i
• 12:22
  think every boy
• 12:23
  growing up you like discover comic book books and just dive
• 12:28
  into them i mean you
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: know all the old far side stuff and
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: I loved all that stuff.
• 12:35
  That's what I would walk out of libraries with,
• 12:37
  just giant piles of all of those kind of books.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: But Calvin Hobbes is just such a...
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: It does what I think is so wonderful,
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: which is it's highbrow,
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: lowbrow in just the most elegant way possible.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's so...
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: It, it, it's cool now because my, my kids are reading it.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: They love it.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: And, um, and I, you know, the jokes go way over their heads.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's,
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: jokes about like taxes and,
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: government oversight and all kinds of stuff.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: They don't, they don't get it.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: But,
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: but that's,
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: what's so wonderful about it is you can,
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: you can enjoy it being a set,
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: my kids are four and six again,
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: like you enjoy it as a,
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: as a four-year-old and you can enjoy it
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: as a full blown adult getting something out of it.
• 13:28
  And so I always loved it growing up and now it's been really
• 13:32
  cool to be able to
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: start sharing that with my kids again,
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: even if they understand,
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: 20% of it,
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: they,
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think they see that there's something in there.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um,
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: So are you checking this book out at the library when you're growing up?
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: Where's the library?
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: How often are you going?
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_02: What is that experience like?
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: Growing up in Grand Rapids,
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: Michigan,
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: and Cascade,
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: there was a library there that I...
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's funny,
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: I was just thinking about the library the other day.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: Bad brown carpet, and you're still using...
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: The card catalog and that whole deal.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: But I was always I my in my it's funny.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: My son's the same way.
• 14:17
  I was always like zeroed in at the I forget exactly what side
• 14:23
  of the Dewey Decimal
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: System,
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: but I was like it was like the nine hundred and nineties or something,
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: which was all of like.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like Bermuda Triangle and Bigfoot and, you know, all of that stuff.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's the that's the stuff even in my in my elementary school one.
• 14:39
  And then in the like local one,
• 14:41
  I was always checking out books about all that stuff.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: And now my son does, too, which is really funny.
• 14:47
  Um,
• 14:47
  and I love that they hid them like as far away in the,
• 14:50
  in the system as they could.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: They were just like in, they're literally in the corner.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but that's where I wanted to be.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah.
• 14:58
  And then,
• 14:59
  and then all kinds of whatever comic books,
• 15:00
  I feel like it was like,
• 15:02
  what was it?
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: Burke breathes or something.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_02: They were all Berkeley breathed.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: Berkeley breathed.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of old stuff like that.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_02: I went through Garfield phase when I was probably lots of Garfield.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: And then now people,
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: now people hate Garfield and it makes me kind of sad,
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: but yeah,
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_02: it makes six year old me sad.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: I thought it was so clever at the time.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: What, uh, so do you remember when,
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: Do you own a Calvin and Hobbes book from when you were a kid still?
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: They're all on my son's shelf now.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: So we found it.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: So he has, he has, I've got the days are just packed.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what else?
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, psycho jungle cat, homicidal cycle, jungle cat.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: What else?
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: The names are escaping me, but yeah, we've got all of them.
• 16:04
  The one I really liked was there was a 10th Anniversary
• 16:08
  Treasury one where Bill
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: Watterson went through and kind of...
• 16:14
  Sort of had like just a little bit of a line of a description
• 16:18
  underneath each
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: strip,
• 16:19
  starting from kind of the beginning all the way over the course
• 16:23
  of the strip.
• 16:25
  And he had just little comments kind of describing what he was
• 16:28
  doing or what he was going on.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I always thought that was so cool.
• 16:33
  kind of seeing the brain behind the whole operation and getting
• 16:37
  his take on it.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because he was really,
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: really groundbreaking in the stuff he was doing by breaking panels.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's cool to see him as you go on chronologically.
• 16:49
  He,
• 16:50
  you know,
• 16:50
  he starts with very simple,
• 16:52
  you know,
• 16:52
  pretty straightforward drawings.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: And by the, you know, if you get into the final books,
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: it might be just a single giant image on the Sunday,
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: on the Sunday one,
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: or,
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: he's fully broken them up into all these,
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: different panels.
• 17:06
  He was really deconstructing kind of what a comic could be and
• 17:10
  building it in
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: whatever he wanted to.
• 17:12
  And,
• 17:12
  um,
• 17:13
  again,
• 17:13
  I just think it's so cool to see someone experiment like that
• 17:20
  just on a page.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um,
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: This age you're at, you're reading this stuff.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_02: Are you like class clown in school?
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: Are you trying to be funny?
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: Or...
• 17:40
  I definitely dressed up as an old lady in fourth grade to help
• 17:46
  my friend get
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: elected to class president.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: I vaguely remember in a wig,
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: running out into the gym,
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: yelling at people to vote for my friend for vice president.
• 18:03
  I don't know if I was like class clown,
• 18:04
  but I,
• 18:05
  yeah,
• 18:06
  I was,
• 18:06
  I was a goofy kid.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: I was having fun.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:10
  Like,
• 18:10
  I guess I'm asking,
• 18:11
  like,
• 18:11
  are you trying to make people laugh at this point in your life?
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: Are you sort of like taking, taking lessons from the books?
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the, like, are you finding a sense of humor in it?
• 18:23
  And like,
• 18:24
  yeah,
• 18:25
  I mean,
• 18:25
  I think,
• 18:28
  but,
• 18:29
  but the Calvin and Hobbes stuff,
• 18:31
  it's not like,
• 18:34
  funny for making people laugh it's more like funny for an
• 18:38
  insight in a way you know
• 18:40
  i think it's kind of a different style of humor i don't know
• 18:42
  did you read any of
• 18:43
  that stuff growing up or yeah um this big calvin and hobbs fan
• 18:48
  um for i mean i went
• 18:49
  through a phase and i think it's it's one of those things to me
• 18:54
  it's the only
• 18:56
  example i think of now because i haven't been in this universe
• 19:00
  very long but where
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: It makes kids laugh for some reason, but it makes adults laugh as well.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's like the Lego movie, you know?
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like all these movies my brother would watch when his kids were like 6,
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: 7,
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: 8,
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: and he would always say stuff like,
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: it's actually pretty fun,
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_02: you know?
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: And it was a thing.
• 19:20
  And I'm sure it's true for a lot of like Pixar movies and stuff
• 19:23
  where there's stuff
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: for the adults,
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: too.
• 19:25
  It's like you get the kids in the theater because they want to
• 19:28
  see whatever,
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_02: but the adults can have a good time,
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_02: too.
• 19:31
  They're not just sitting through and being like,
• 19:33
  oh,
• 19:33
  my God,
• 19:33
  when is this over?
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I think there's stuff like the far side,
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_02: like you mentioned,
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_02: like Calvin and Hobbes too,
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: where there's quite a bit of adult humor,
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: but somehow it's,
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: it's like got a foot can,
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_02: can please both parties.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: Do you have a memory of seeing it in the newspaper too?
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm, I think I mostly got it through books.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: Cause I can,
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: that way I could just read it straight through,
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to like do that,
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: but I was always a big Sunday comics,
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: like that straight to that pulled it out on Sunday,
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 20:15
  like sat in the backseat in the car on the way to church
• 20:18
  reading the comics.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that was, that was the best part of my day.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: Did you grow up?
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, did you grow up like obsessed with comics too?
• 20:28
  i don't think i was obsessed yeah i just remember having like
• 20:31
  like i have very
• 20:33
  strong feelings about peanuts calvin and hobbs the far side was
• 20:38
  huge there was this
• 20:39
  one called bc that was sort of about oh yeah cave people uh
• 20:44
  dunesberry i mean i can
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_02: see these in my in my yeah um
• 20:49
  mind's eye and i just i can remember sitting with like a bowl
• 20:52
  of breakfast cereal
• 20:53
  looking over the comics and just shoveling cereal into my mouth
• 20:56
  but yeah yeah i
• 20:57
  never developed into like any sort of real cartoonist um but
• 21:02
  and you know a few
• 21:04
  it's like a year or two ago this washington poe or uh it was um
• 21:09
  this guy who's a
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: cartoonist who makes
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: I forget the name of the comic strip,
• 21:14
  but like multiple people saw it in the Washington Post and he
• 21:17
  had like sort of
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: taken a panel of mine and like drawn it and like literally said,
• 21:23
  my favorite new cartoonist is semi rad and put it in and
• 21:26
  everybody who sent it to
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: me was like over 65,
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: they were like,
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: Hey,
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: you made it.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so it kind of, I don't know.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's that, that age of people.
• 21:39
  It's like,
• 21:39
  it's like not,
• 21:40
  we're not reading newspapers anymore,
• 21:42
  but,
• 21:43
  but yeah,
• 21:43
  I don't know.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I wish I could do that sort of stuff.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and now, now it's more like I follow, um,
• 21:49
  new yorker cartoonists on instagram and i'm really in awe of
• 21:53
  that like sort of
• 21:54
  skill set and you know putting putting that stuff on the page
• 21:57
  and being able to
• 21:58
  tell that story in a single panel but i also i'm like yeah
• 22:01
  wonder what what's the
• 22:02
  average age of the audience there you know is this a dying art
• 22:05
  and whatever yeah
• 22:06
  all sorts of stuff so yeah yeah i'm like trying to i guess i'm
• 22:11
  looking at your list
• 22:11
  and i'm thinking like how do you connect this childhood stuff
• 22:14
  to your current job
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: that's like
• 22:17
  you know,
• 22:18
  a lot of humor and a lot of like weird sense of humor and
• 22:20
  stuff.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe it doesn't connect, but no, I think it does.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think it's that highbrow, lowbrow thing.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I think some of my other stuff have that on the list too,
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: that it,
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: it,
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: that's what always has fascinated me.
• 22:32
  That kind of,
• 22:33
  can you be like,
• 22:34
  there is real intelligence and stupidity if you accept that.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: And,
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: and that's the kind of stuff that I love,
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: like things that are just so dumb that they're brilliant or vice versa.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: you know?
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: so I,
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: that's why,
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: Calvin could,
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: one strip could be about him,
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: being just a little brat who wants to watch TV.
• 22:57
  And the next one will be about a dead bird that he found that
• 22:59
  will like make you cry.
• 23:01
  You know,
• 23:01
  it was able to accomplish both seamlessly,
• 23:05
  which was really cool about it.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: I thought.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: Huh.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_02: That is interesting to think about.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: Now I'm trying to think of other examples, but yeah.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_02: Well,
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: speaking of highbrow,
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: lowbrow,
• 23:18
  next item on your list is I get wet by Andrew WK or really the
• 23:23
  entire thing that is
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: Andrew WK.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: are you, do you know who this is?
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: Uh,
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: when I worked at a newspaper,
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_02: I used to sit across from this guy,
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_02: John,
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: who was,
• 23:35
  uh,
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: I would say he's more of a metal head,
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_02: but he knew tons about music,
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: like from jazz to like hip hop to everything.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_02: And he had so many,
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: he was pretty,
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: pretty shy and pretty off,
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: like a little bit socially awkward.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_02: Eventually he went to law school.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um,
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_02: and he was a huge Andrew WK fan,
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_02: which was sort of unexpected because he was such a,
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: he's such a brilliant guy.
• 23:57
  And,
• 23:58
  um,
• 23:59
  and I remember him explaining Andrew WK to me and I was like,
• 24:02
  Oh,
• 24:03
  okay.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, great.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_02: And, uh,
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_02: When did you,
• 24:08
  do you remember first encountering his music and being like
• 24:12
  immediately into it or
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: what happened?
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: 2001, that first single came out, Party Hard.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: It was on MTV.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: And the best part of it was,
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: if you watch the video,
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: the best part is like,
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: you're like,
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: is this a joke or is this serious?
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:31
  and that's the kind of stuff i love that that's like my
• 24:34
  favorite kind of my
• 24:35
  favorite kind of thing i mean that's what liquid death is it's
• 24:37
  like is this a joke
• 24:38
  or is this serious and the answer is both yes to both right and
• 24:43
  um and you know
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: that yeah it just came out and um
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: And,
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: it's just like long haired dude punching himself in the face in a mirror,
• 24:56
  bleeding out of his nose and then just singing about partying
• 24:59
  that first that that
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: album,
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: the first album has.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: four songs with the word party in the title.
• 25:07
  I think it's like four out of the 10 songs on the album have
• 25:10
  the word party.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's like party hard, party till you puke, party hardy or something.
• 25:16
  Um,
• 25:17
  yeah,
• 25:17
  it's,
• 25:18
  it's just,
• 25:18
  it's so much,
• 25:19
  it's so fun and infectious and it's so dumb and,
• 25:24
  um,
• 25:26
  Yeah,
• 25:27
  again,
• 25:27
  I think there's like a certain brilliance to what he's doing
• 25:31
  there.
• 25:31
  Because it's kind of satire,
• 25:34
  but it's kind of an invitation just to be dumb.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: And just as like a person, he's a really interesting dude.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: He always talks about the power of positive partying.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: He's kind of become like, I don't know, some kind of...
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: like life coach, but, but like metal dude.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I saw it, I saw him play a year after that album came out.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: He,
• 26:05
  I went to the university of Georgia and he came and played the
• 26:09
  40 watt club,
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: which is this really tiny,
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: but like famous club in Athens.
• 26:15
  And it's still to this day,
• 26:17
  the best show I've ever seen in my entire life.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: It was really,
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: At any given time, there were like 20 people on stage from the audience.
• 26:27
  He would just,
• 26:28
  he wasn't singing half the time because the crowd was singing
• 26:31
  so loud.
• 26:32
  He would pick people up and put them on his shoulders and just
• 26:34
  like march them
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: around stage with people on his shoulders.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: I was up on stage a couple times.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: At some point after the show, my friend was like,
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: didn't have a shoe on.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like, he's like, I lost my shoe.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: And,
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: and,
• 26:50
  and he wandered backstage and found that his shoe was in the
• 26:53
  back with like,
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: with like a bite mark out in it.
• 26:57
  And we realized that like he had taken his shoe or somebody had
• 27:00
  taken a shoe and
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: like thrown it on stage.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: And Andrew WK like,
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: like grabbed it,
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: bite,
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: like bites the shoe and then like throws it backstage.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: And that was his shoe.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it was just, it was like an, it was just an insane show.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: It was so much fun.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: And, um, it was just,
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it was a big love fest, too.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like,
• 27:17
  I think that was what was so cool about it was it was just all
• 27:20
  these people coming
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: together,
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: kind of loving in their own weird way.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, that I mean, that's what I think is so cool about about him.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then also there's a whole conspiracy theory.
• 27:31
  I don't know if your friend told you all about that whole side
• 27:34
  to it as well.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: You should you should share it because I would not do it.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: it's been a while since I've fully,
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: so I might biff some of this,
• 27:46
  but basically there's a conspiracy theory that he was replaced
• 27:48
  by another person,
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: that the first,
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: the original Andrew WK is not the Andrew WK we have now.
• 27:56
  And you can go down this whole rabbit hole of people have like
• 27:58
  analyzed the singing
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: and analyzed his looks and how he's changed.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 28:03
  and there was like a distinct moment where like the first guy
• 28:06
  was Andrew WK now
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: that the new guy is Andrew WK,
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: but they're not the same person.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: But it's definitely...
• 28:14
  And then there's this whole theory that it's like this weird
• 28:18
  art project kind of
• 28:20
  done by like music Illuminati types who are all kind of
• 28:26
  creating this like
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: character of Andrew W.K.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: and putting it out, which I actually think has some validity.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think it is actually...
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: this sort of conceptual art project.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: and I don't know to fully to which degree,
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: but I think there's some validity to that whole idea,
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: which again,
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: I like,
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like,
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: is this a joke or not?
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: Does it matter?
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's great.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:51
  And it like the depth you can,
• 28:54
  you can basically experience him through any amount of depth.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_02: You can be like, Oh yeah, I like that song.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_02: Or you can be like full on.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_02: It makes me think of the, um,
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: exit through the gift shop, the Banksy movie.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: And now, is that guy real?
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: That guy's not real, right?
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: Mr. Brainwash?
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: Was that his name?
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_02: He's not real.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_02: Is he?
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, no.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: It was just a thing created by Banksy.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's a whole other level of performance art there.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I had a question I was going to ask.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: Uh...
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_02: So, so how many people were at this show?
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think?
• 29:37
  Uh,
• 29:39
  I mean,
• 29:39
  how,
• 29:40
  how many people can get in the 40 watt,
• 29:41
  maybe 300 or 400,
• 29:43
  300.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe 300.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um,
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: and do you,
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_02: did you,
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_02: why do you think,
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_02: why do you think nothing else is,
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_02: is,
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_02: I guess no other show has been better than that for you.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because it was so intimate and it was so like fun.
• 30:08
  It was just like totally unabashed fun in a way that I don't
• 30:14
  think is allowed a lot of times.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think it's like... Like music is so supposed to be cool.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: What's the question with me?
• 30:26
  Well,
• 30:27
  it was just,
• 30:28
  it was so like over the top and fun and it didn't,
• 30:32
  no one cared.
• 30:32
  And like,
• 30:33
  like I said,
• 30:33
  dudes are just like literally hugging on each other.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: And like, it was just, it was such a, it was such a positive atmosphere.
• 30:41
  Granted,
• 30:42
  everyone was like drenched in beer and everything,
• 30:44
  but it was just,
• 30:45
  it was such a,
• 30:48
  I just don't think you can replicate that kind of positivity in
• 30:52
  this kind of weird way.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think you had a sense at the time that that was going to be...
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_02: a once in a lifetime experience.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_02: Cause I assume, did you go to an Andrew WK show after that?
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: I, that's the only one I've been to.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: No, I mean, at the time I was like, that's the best show I've ever seen.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it's still to this day,
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm pretty sure it was actually,
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: and it was also,
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: here's another random thing about that night.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: It was on September 11th, 20,
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: 2002.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: So it was,
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: it was,
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: the anniversary of September 11th and he has a song called,
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: I love New York city.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: that was on the first album.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so he like obviously played that.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a really dumb song.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: The lyrics are just like, I love New York City.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, New York City.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the whole, those are basically the whole lyrics.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: But I just remember that was kind of a cool moment too,
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: is that this kind of tribute,
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: like a year later.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, like,
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_02: The question is, does art actually have to be smart or have depth?
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: You can just enjoy it, which is fantastic.
• 32:14
  That whole conspiracy theory just reminds me of a lot of those
• 32:18
  series of books.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_02: I grew up with the Hardy Boys, the two detective brothers.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think the actual author was ever a real person.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_02: I think it was just a collective.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_02: This happened with... There's multiple books like that where...
• 32:32
  they were started by someone who wrote,
• 32:35
  you know,
• 32:35
  10 of them or whatever.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_02: And then they either retired or died or whatever.
• 32:38
  And then someone else picked it up or the publisher picked it
• 32:40
  up and they would
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_02: just like hire people to ghostwrite the same characters.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um,
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_02: there's multiple cases of that.
• 32:46
  And I'm trying to remember if they're the Hardy boys,
• 32:49
  I think was never really an actual author.
• 32:51
  It was just a,
• 32:52
  like a pen name for a bunch of people at the publishing
• 32:54
  company.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: It just always said like the Hardy boys on identity.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like didn't bother to have an author's name or something.
• 33:00
  No,
• 33:00
  it's,
• 33:00
  it's Franklin W.
• 33:02
  Dixon,
• 33:02
  but I don't know if it's a real,
• 33:03
  a real person.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: So that definitely sounds like a fake name.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, should we move on to on the road?
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: on the road,
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: it was just,
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: again,
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: like this is,
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: I,
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like,
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: I was,
• 33:25
  I found this book when I was in college and was starting to
• 33:32
  travel a lot or after
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: traveling after college.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it, it just has kind of been a,
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: a book that I always,
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: for whatever reason,
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'll always take with me when I'm traveling and which is so on the nose,
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: it's like,
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: okay,
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: you're on the road.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: You're going to read on the road,
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: but,
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: but,
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: but there's such a kind of exuberance in,
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: in that book.
• 34:00
  Um,
• 34:00
  and just to just sort of a lust for life kind of that it really
• 34:06
  hit me.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so I,
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's maybe not even the book itself.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like what the book represents.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so for me,
• 34:14
  I've got a degree in advertising in college and Spanish and
• 34:19
  then a minor in
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: Portuguese.
• 34:21
  And I knew I was going to eventually go back to go do more
• 34:28
  school to do the advertising thing.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: But I was like, I'm never going to use my Spanish or Portuguese.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I just, after college, just
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: went down to South America for like half a year.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: I was actually planning on living down there for a few years.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 34:47
  And just kind of like traveling around and living in a
• 34:49
  different country every,
• 34:50
  every year.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: and ended up instead,
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: just like kind of bumming around for as long as I could,
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: as long as my money would allow.
• 34:58
  And it was,
• 34:59
  it just,
• 35:00
  it was like the book kind of hit me at the same time.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I was,
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: as I was doing that and,
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 35:05
  just getting to meet all these different characters when you're
• 35:08
  out there doing
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: something like that,
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: that it,
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: the book itself just really connected with me in a,
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: in a kind of a really personal level,
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: I guess.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah,
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_02: I think I read it when I was 15 or 16 and discovered it through,
• 35:25
  I think it was a biography of Jim Morrison or something like
• 35:28
  that from The Doors.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: I was living in a very small town in Iowa and had never been anywhere,
• 35:35
  and it was this sort of thing that showed you that the world
• 35:39
  was out there.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_02: It was a big, exciting thing.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think I picked up on a lot of...
• 35:47
  Like,
• 35:47
  did you see the movie adaptation for it that came out,
• 35:50
  like,
• 35:52
  it's like 10 years ago?
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't think I realized it, like, um... Oh, my God.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um...
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_02: His,
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_02: uh,
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_02: okay,
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_02: his last name,
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_02: Cassidy,
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_02: uh,
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_02: Neil Cassidy was actually like hustling men,
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_02: like to get,
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_02: get that money until I saw the movie and I was like,
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_02: I need to go back and read that book.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't a,
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_02: it wasn't a big thing in the fifties that you talked about a lot,
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: but,
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_02: uh,
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_02: but yeah,
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_02: Neil Cassidy appears in on the road and then,
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_02: uh,
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_02: he's in the electric Kool-Aid acid test,
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_02: just shows up driving the bus,
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_02: like however many years later,
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_02: wow,
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_02: what a,
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: what a life.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 36:31
  Well,
• 36:31
  I love that it was all,
• 36:32
  it was like autobiographical,
• 36:34
  but the names are different.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it just, again, it's like this mushy world is like, how real is this?
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's pretty real, but we've changed some of the stuff.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: And again,
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: like that,
• 36:44
  that kind of like middle ground has always been really
• 36:47
  interesting to me when
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's sort of true, but maybe not quite.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: And what, what can you do with that?
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: Also,
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: I love the fact that like,
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: he wrote that on that giant,
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: the scroll,
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: like just one giant manuscript is so insane.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 37:03
  They,
• 37:03
  um,
• 37:04
  the owner of that was like the guy who owned the Indianapolis
• 37:07
  Colts.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_02: And,
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_02: um,
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_02: at one point when I lived in Denver,
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_02: they had this,
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_02: this scroll at the library and they just put it out.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_02: It was like, um,
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_02: probably 40 feet long or more in this glass case.
• 37:21
  And you walk up and see the actual manuscript and it was just
• 37:24
  sitting there.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_02: It was like, it was wild.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_02: That's cool.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_02: That's like one of those, um, those stories that,
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_02: about writers where,
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_02: people are like,
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_02: oh,
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_02: Jack Kerouac wrote that in like 86 hours,
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_02: just like popping Benzedrine the entire time or whatever.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_02: And it turns out to not, would not quite be true.
• 37:41
  You know,
• 37:42
  it's like,
• 37:42
  yeah,
• 37:43
  he wrote it pretty fast,
• 37:44
  but it maybe wasn't that fast.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: It was like three weeks or something, wasn't it?
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: Something like that.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then he edited it for years.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_02: So how do you,
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_02: how do you think that,
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_02: um,
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_02: besides the trip to South America,
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_02: did it continue to sort of influence your,
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_02: or did it get you started,
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_02: um,
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_02: uh,
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_02: on like a travel kick or a like creativity or did it like,
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_02: how did it,
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_02: how did it influence you later on after that?
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think, um,
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:15
  I mean,
• 38:15
  travel,
• 38:16
  I mean,
• 38:16
  the sun's dumb,
• 38:17
  but travel has always been really important to me.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: I,
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: I,
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: I,
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: like I,
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: I did that trip,
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: but then I've also,
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: my wife and I actually,
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: we quit our jobs for a year in the middle of our careers.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 38:35
  like she was freelance and I was at an agency and we decided
• 38:39
  before we had kids,
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: we were going to just quit and travel while we could,
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 38:44
  And so we took a whole year off and ended up going to like
• 38:49
  Southeast Asia for a
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: while and then spent the summer in Amsterdam.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: And then I traveled all over Colorado for a bit of the summer.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: Just, we spent a whole year doing that kind of thing.
• 38:59
  And,
• 39:00
  um,
• 39:01
  I think obviously like travel is such a wonderful eyeopening
• 39:05
  experience.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: But I think,
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: but I think like in particular,
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: like to me,
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: that kind of like dirt bag traveling is the kind that I like to do,
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: when it's like staying in hostels out of a backpack.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's, to me, that's the real thing.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's how you really see a place.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: and how you get to know it.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_00: I was just down in Mexico last week to speak at some conference,
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: and it was nice,
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: but we were at this super fancy resort.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: We were down near Playa del Carmen,
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: south of Cancun,
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: and it was really cool,
• 39:39
  but all I wanted to do all day was leave the property and go
• 39:42
  actually out and see
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: like what was actually out there and no one else,
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think anybody else that was at this thing,
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: like ever left this really nice resort to go,
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: to go outside.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I was just like, this is not what traveling is.
• 39:56
  The point of traveling is not to sit up by a pool somewhere
• 39:59
  else,
• 40:00
  you know?
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's just, that kind of thing is crazy to me.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'd rather stay at like a hotel for,
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: a hostel for like five bucks a night living with like one,
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: like a backpack with like two shirts in it or something.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 40:14
  I had the exact same experience right before the pandemic in
• 40:18
  2020 in the Bahamas.
• 40:19
  It was the only time I was there,
• 40:20
  but the bridge literally connects the island to...
• 40:25
  the islands on the resorts on an island that's where this
• 40:28
  conference was and
• 40:30
  there's a you know the bridge that goes across the mainland it
• 40:32
  was like completely
• 40:34
  different you know situation over there and but everybody was
• 40:37
  like you're gonna
• 40:38
  come down to the beach later i'm like probably not like i'm not
• 40:43
  really a beach guy
• 40:44
  yeah but yeah i know i don't sometimes i don't know if that's
• 40:48
  the point is actually
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_02: traveling you know i think it's like
• 40:52
  you know,
• 40:52
  just go in someplace nice where everything's taken care of and
• 40:55
  whatever.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know, but I hear you.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_02: Same, same deal.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, did you read other Kerouac books after that or?
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:05
  Like electric acid Kool-Aid test and desperation angels and all
• 41:10
  that stuff.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the lookout, the fire lookout on, um, yeah.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_02: Have you been up there?
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of cool.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's like a,
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's a 10 mile one way hike up like three or 4,000 feet,
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_02: um,
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_02: to desolation peak,
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_02: but you have to get there via boat first.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_02: And, um, I think it's normally just like a water taxi.
• 41:34
  They'll just like drop you off there and you can do the hike or
• 41:37
  run,
• 41:37
  run it,
• 41:37
  whatever.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um,
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_02: but we were late in the season and had to like,
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_02: they'll just rent you a boat and it's just like a little outboard motor.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um,
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_02: but it's a really, it's a really pretty spot.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_02: You can see it being pretty inspiring as far as,
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_02: uh,
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_02: writing,
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_02: uh,
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_02: um,
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_02: or just being,
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_02: being alive,
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_02: I guess.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, okay.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_02: Last one is boys and girls in America by the hold steady.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_02: Chronologically.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_02: Where, where is this in life for you?
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: Slightly after, I mean, that came out in,
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: 2006, I think it was when that came out.
• 42:19
  It's a good segue because I think the first line from that is a
• 42:23
  sell paradise
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_00: reference back to,
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_00: back to on the road.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: like the first line from the entire album is I,
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: the first line is,
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think that sell paradise was right.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: Boys and girls of America have such a sad time together.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: Which is cool.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: again,
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_00: Hold Steady is like,
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: for a writer,
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think Craig Flynn is just,
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: Finn is just one of the,
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_00: greatest songwriters of all time.
• 42:54
  He has like a really amazing way to have these little turns of
• 43:01
  phrases and paint
• 43:03
  these pictures of all these different characters that kind of
• 43:06
  inhabit the universe
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: that he's making.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_00: In the same way, I mean, very similar to like the Kerouac,
• 43:13
  Kind of where where it's like this whole kind of party scene of
• 43:16
  all these different
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: people crashing together and and.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_00: having sort of ecstatic and,
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: euphoric experiences,
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: then also people having these,
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: the opposite of that,
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_00: just being at the,
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: the,
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_00: hitting rock bottom and having all these,
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: something terrible.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_00: So,
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_00: and,
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: but it's,
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: it's,
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_00: and then it's also just really fun to listen to,
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: but,
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: but the songwriting is,
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_00: is like,
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: is so good.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_00: My, my, my friend and I always go back and forth over text on, um,
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to find new albums that are, I forget what we call them.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's like all the way through bangers or something.
• 43:58
  And it's like,
• 43:59
  it's like,
• 43:59
  what are some albums that every single track is good.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: Cause there'll be really good albums,
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: but there are a few albums where every single track is,
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: is,
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: is like the,
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: it could be the best song ever.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: This is definitely one of those albums for sure.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_02: There's,
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_02: um,
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_02: Shay Serrano,
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_02: the writer has a pod,
• 44:20
  or he had a podcast called no skips with somebody else where
• 44:23
  they just talk about
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_02: hip hop albums that you don't skip,
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_02: but yeah.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um,
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_02: where are you in life and,
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_02: and,
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_02: uh,
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_02: geographically,
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_02: where are you when,
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_02: when you discover this album?
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: This was, I was in
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: I must've been in Atlanta.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was in advertising school with, with friends and, um,
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was a kind of a crazy time.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_00: We were in this ad school for like two years and it was just wild.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_00: It was where I learned to like really be creative.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: It was kind of the first time that I was like, oh, I can be a writer.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm literally going to school to become a writer.
• 45:07
  And so we were taking all these classes on like literally the
• 45:13
  first class was just
• 45:14
  this class about how to be creative where we're just keeping a
• 45:16
  sketchbook full of
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_00: all kinds of
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_00: you know, insane experimental art that we're making.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: And,
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 45:23
  I'm really writing like filling up notebooks and notebooks and
• 45:26
  notebooks of stuff
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_00: for the first time that I had ever,
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_00: ever really done.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: And,
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: so this,
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: my friend was like,
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: Hey,
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: there's this band,
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: the whole study,
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_00: or she gave me a mixtape of,
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: of stuff,
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: a mixed CD of stuff.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it had it on there when, when you used to make mixed CDs, you know?
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_00: And, um,
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I was just like, what is this?
• 45:47
  And just dove right in,
• 45:49
  and I've seen them a bunch of times live,
• 45:51
  probably.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think I've probably seen them live more than any other bands, probably.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like a dozen times, or like...
• 46:01
  yeah i like 10 like maybe eight times yeah i don't know i don't
• 46:06
  get to see as many
• 46:07
  shows as i used to you know why is that yeah it's because they
• 46:11
  all start so late
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_02: man um uh what was the question i was just gonna ask you
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um,
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_02: so this advertising school,
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_02: do you end up with like a master's degree or what is the,
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_02: what's the,
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_02: no,
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: you end up with a certificate.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's like totally worth it.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_00: So it was this place called the creative circus,
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: which on top of like,
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: for,
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: for some parents that are like,
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry,
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_00: you don't get a degree and it's called the creative circus.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely not.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, my parents are cool about it.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, you get a portfolio out of it at the end of it.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_00: You have, you know, you have this body of work that you're like,
• 46:51
  here hire me because this is what my brain looks like in what
• 46:55
  my brain can do.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it sounds super interesting.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was cool.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: It was, um, it was a, it was a wild time.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: It was just, you know, like a hundred kids in this warehouse in the
• 47:08
  just learning to be weird and um and then eventually kind of
• 47:13
  directing that into
• 47:14
  making something smart but it starts off by just you know we
• 47:18
  were taking like
• 47:19
  improv classes sometimes and you know learning to write for
• 47:23
  radio or i was taking
• 47:26
  design and photography classes and all kinds of other stuff
• 47:29
  along with all my
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: writing so it was a
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_00: It was cool.
• 47:32
  You got this kind of almost unlearn all the stuff that you'd
• 47:35
  learn in college,
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_00: which was like how to do stuff properly,
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: you know?
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it was really, it was a really fun time.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so, and really some of my best friends are from those two years.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_02: How did,
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_02: did you hear about it through school and you were like,
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_02: how did you,
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_02: how did you go there?
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_02: How did you decide to go there?
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_00: I was doing,
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_00: like I said,
• 47:55
  I was doing advert in advertising degree at the university of
• 47:59
  Georgia and in my
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_00: last year.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of was like, oh, I want to do creative, not advertising.
• 48:12
  Because advertising,
• 48:13
  you can be like,
• 48:13
  I sell media or I'm an account person or something.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I kind of thought I liked it.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: But at my very, very end, I was like, oh, I want to do the creative part.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then I was like, oh, okay, I have to go to school again.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I knew leaving college that I was going to go back.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_00: take more school, which is actually why I went and traveled.
• 48:39
  Cause I was like,
• 48:41
  I can go travel for and do that one for however long I want.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's quarterly basis.
• 48:46
  So I can come back and just apply to school whenever I run out
• 48:50
  of money in South
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_00: America,
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_00: basically.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: Huh?
• 48:53
  It sounds like art school,
• 48:54
  but sort of like you can actually make a living when you get
• 48:57
  done.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe kinda.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: you don't,
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_00: you don't make a living at the beginning and then,
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: and then it can turn.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it's, that's how I would describe to people.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like,
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_00: it's art school basically,
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_00: it's like we had teachers,
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_00: our first assignment,
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_00: the first day it was like,
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_00: go to a strip club and observe the women that are visiting it.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like, wow.
• 49:20
  Wow.
• 49:21
  Also the school was behind was in Atlanta in this area that was
• 49:25
  just like tucked
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_00: behind like 20 script clubs.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: So it was a very easy assignment,
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_00: but it was like,
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_00: it was just kind of,
• 49:33
  it was a whole class about understanding people and target
• 49:38
  market and stuff.
• 49:38
  And it was like,
• 49:39
  go watch the women who are visiting the club to like,
• 49:45
  why are they there?
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_00: What are they getting out of it?
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that kind of thing.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so,
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we were just doing all kinds of crazy stuff all the time.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: It was cool.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:54
  Yeah,
• 49:55
  we used to be located by a shopping mall,
• 49:57
  but now we're by strip clubs.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_02: We used to send people to the shopping mall, but we just didn't do this.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's closer.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's easiest.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_02: Same thing.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_02: Same sort of marketing.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_02: All of these seem to be of like, all of these were before...
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_02: I don't normally do this.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's supposed to be like your five favorite things.
• 50:15
  But it seems like the last one we talked about,
• 50:17
  you were in your mid-20s when you picked it up.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_02: Is there anything that's really blown your mind in the last,
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_02: say,
• 50:27
  five or six years of your life that you can think of off the
• 50:32
  top of your head?
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, man.
• 50:38
  uh you know what you know what i um do you know i saw recently
• 50:42
  that i loved that i
• 50:43
  thought was so amazing was the curse i haven't seen it you see
• 50:47
  the nathan fielder
• 50:48
  it's this nathan fielder show i love all things nathan fielder
• 50:51
  and for the same
• 50:52
  reason it's it's like is this real is this a joke and the curse
• 50:58
  is is such a unique
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_00: show that
• 51:04
  It's so unnerving in a way that I've never seen a television
• 51:08
  show be able to pull off.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_00: The music is so sinister in it.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's a real masterpiece.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_00: Not to throw that word around, but the curse is cool.
• 51:26
  I didn't watch it for a long time because I was like,
• 51:28
  I don't have show time.
• 51:29
  uh so of course i you know sign up for a free trial watch it
• 51:32
  all in one week and
• 51:33
  then cancel my showtime subscription immediately but um i
• 51:36
  suggest anyone go do that
• 51:37
  because it is a it's a really unique show that i've never seen
• 51:41
  anyone do anything
• 51:42
  close to that before yeah he kind of like i'd never heard of
• 51:46
  him and then all of a
• 51:46
  sudden he's just sort of everywhere and like uh i didn't he
• 51:49
  executive produced or
• 51:50
  produced how to with john wilson oh man i love that show it's
• 51:55
  incredible i've been
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_02: following that guy for years ever since he did the like
• 51:59
  to get rid of bed bugs video on vimeo like like 12 years ago or
• 52:03
  whatever yeah he's
• 52:04
  amazing um i want to be conscious of your time this is awesome
• 52:09
  man um thanks so
• 52:11
  much i love doing this this is so so fun it's cool it makes you
• 52:15
  it makes you like
• 52:16
  have to like think about your whole life in totality i love it
• 52:19
  it's a it's a good
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_00: assignment
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_00: what,
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_00: what are we,
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_02: but collections of things we like,
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_02: and,
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_02: uh,
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_02: or that's one way to look at it anyway.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_02: So this is awesome.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_02: I'll put like links to everything in show notes when I,
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_02: when I eventually get this up as a podcast episode,
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_02: but thanks so much for your time.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and we'll, we'll end it there.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.