Latest / Beyond Limits With Olivia Marie / Growing Up With A "Normal Childhood", Attachment Styles, Therapy And So Much More With Louise Rumball

Transcript

Growing Up With A "Normal Childhood", Attachment Styles, Therapy And So Much More With Louise Rumball · Beyond Limits With Olivia Marie

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Live Well Podcast.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Liv, an astropathic doctor, a mentor, energy healer, a cost creator, intuitive, energetic business mentor, and honestly, so much more.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: I help you heal on a physical and emotional level so that you can feel delicious in your health, the body, relationships, career, and a bank account.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: This show is for those of you who are looking to go beyond the basic wellness stuff, head out of the BS and really create a life that you love.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about health, trauma healing, energetics, a feminine energy, a wealth, and a magnetism so that you can live a life that feels delicious.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: In these episodes, we will have an honest conversation without the fluffy bullshit.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: You walk away with all of the insights, the tools, and tips to truly live your best life, mind, body, and soul.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: If you are looking to live well, you are in the right place.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: For ways to work with me, visit keepeupwithlive.com and follow me on Instagram at keep up with live for more.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: And with that, let's get into the show.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the Live Well Podcast.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: I am unbelievably excited to bring you this incredible guest today.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Louise is just a ray of sunshine and the most like funny but magnetic, and just gives it to you real, but it just has the warmest, sweetest heart.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: We met together through a friend in Toulum last year.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Last year, I'm gonna say a few months ago.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: Guess it's last year.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I've just been a big fan of her ever since was a fan before, but just meeting her in real life.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: She's one of those genuine people who is in real life, how she is on her podcast and her Instagram, and we're all a big fan of authenticity here.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: So, with that being said, welcome Louise to the podcast.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: My my like, I am grinning from ear to ear.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: That was like such a kind introduction.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like I haven't smiled that hard in a really long time.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you for bringing a bit of sunshine to me.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very grateful for that lovely intro.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: So could you tell for anyone who doesn't know who you are, what you do?
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, so I'm Louise Louise Rombaugh.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm the founder of the Open House Podcast.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm just a podcaster.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: I don't do anything in terms of like coaching or anything like that.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I just bring my favorite therapists to you every week and share what I've learned on my journey and back it up by some clinical psychologists and mental health experts.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then I do a ton of other things as well, don't we all?
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, some content creation and stuff like that.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: But mainly I'm just that crazy gal that's out here kind of sharing her life.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: So hopefully you guys know that you are not alone.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that you also do that on your podcast.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: And can I also say I'm so jealous that you have a name that ties into your podcast name, like Live Well.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: That is so freaking cool.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so jealous.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: I was like thinking before this, I was like, oh, maybe I'm gonna call my child Live.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like, not that I'm having a child, obviously, but I was like, that is such a cool name, it fits into everything.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I just want to say I love what you do and I love what you stand for as well.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very envious of your podcast name, it's a very good personal branch.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, I have live your best life.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like it just does fit into like little little things.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: So you have such an incredible podcast, and I know you have said about swapping becoming a lawyer in boardrooms for therapy rooms.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: What has it really meant to you to bring this level of accessibility?
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because I know it's like a big part of your values and your mission, and how is that kind of journey unfolded for you, bringing it to viewers?
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I guess about a bit of my backstory for everyone that's listening is I lived that very typical or traditional childhood and life.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was I was born into a good family, like a good background, like I went to good schools, I decided to become a lawyer for whatever reason.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, basically I didn't even realize that that was my subconscious and unconscious programming telling me that, like, oh, my father's a lawyer and my aunt's a lawyer, and I need to be validated by doing something and following in their path and all of these crazy things.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: But I basically had a very traditional upbringing where really from the outside, there shouldn't really have been anything to complain about, no trauma, except we all know now that that is not how it works.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like everyone has experienced trauma in many different capacities.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so I just went into life and I just kept going and going and going, and I became a lawyer, and then I left and I set up a marketing agency and I scaled that and I'd be flying around the world and I'd be partying and I'd have clients in the nightlife industry and in the gym sector.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: And from the outside, I was living this perfect life, you know, great money, great life, great body because I was in the gym the whole time, because all the gym memberships were free.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: But I had this deep, kind of dark nagging like underneath all of that that I wasn't consciously aware of at the time.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: And it was driving me into substance abuse and into unhealthy eating habits and just so many things that unfortunately I think we see as normal in today's life.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: And because of podcasts like yours, we're starting to realize like, wow, that is not living well.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: That is not healthy living.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: But I never was given the opportunity to start to really look into that because when you're in burnout and fight or flight constantly, you never stop.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: You never slow down.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: That is the story of my life.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's one of my biggest battles to date still.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I finally closed down my business because I have a chronic pain disorder called fibromyalgia.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: I've had it since a traumatic event at the age of 18.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: I had tried everything.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'd probably spent$10,000,$20,000 on doctors and blah, blah, blah.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing helped.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm talking like I was in like hyperbaric oxygen tanks, like Justin Bieber has.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I have tried everything.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: I've put ozone in my blood, like ozone therapy.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing helped.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then one day a doctor said to me, Have you considered the connection between repressed and suppressed emotional trauma and physical pain?
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: And that was it.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, okay, I have to explore this, close down my business, went to therapy for the first time ever.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: That was the that was that was the rest of my life.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: Just in that moment, like when I stepped inside that therapy room and gave myself that space to be like, what's going on here?
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: It opened the floodgates.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, as we all know, you open the floodgates and it just comes up.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: But uh yeah, that was the beginning of a really beautiful healing journey that I'm still on today.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: I love so many things that you said.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, from the point of like the just the connection of your physical symptoms can obviously come from repressed emotions.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: I just think every person who hears that again and again from different people, it just like further solidifies in that if you're searching for answers and you've tried everything, there's probably like an emotional energetic group.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: But what I also loved is kind of the courage it took you to even put yourself in therapy.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: So, can you would you finally get it was like an immediate, oh, or I've tried this, like I'm willing to try and then go?
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: Or was there any kind of like, oh, do I want to open like Pandora's box?
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: Am I scared of what I'm gonna find?
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: Because it can be, whether it's therapy, trauma release, whatever you want to call it, very intimidating to go into.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, what am I gonna find?
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know, can I even handle that?
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: I I can't even handle what I'm going on right now.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: You want me to go into that, feel that, and talk about that?
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: So, did that take a lot of courage for you?
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: And if so, how did you find that courage?
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: And what would you say to someone who needs that courage?
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, we're gonna get dark and juicy here.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so what what happened?
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: I I always say you have two options.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: You can step into therapy, to healing, to working with a coach, whatever it is that feels right for you, when things are okay or not good, right?
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: In that space where you're like, oh, things aren't great, but I'm okay.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: Or you can wait to get to crisis mode, and then that's when everything just fucking falls to pieces.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I waited for everything to fall to pieces, and I love that we're talking about this because it's not a part of the story that I get to talk about often.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: I always just say I went to the therapy room, and then that was the rest of my life.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: But the truth is, and trigger warning, sexual assault for anyone that's listening, I was just so lost in these coping mechanisms that we have normalized in today's society, which is going out on the weekends, partying, getting really drunk.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: I would come home, I'd pop a sleeping pill like a Xanax, a Tramadol, and you know, I'm British, like these things are very, very difficult to get.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, in the UK, you can't get prescriptions.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you can get prescriptions on them, but it's not like in the States where you can, where a lot more people have access to them.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I was buying them from drug dealers, and then I was coming home.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: And because it was like Saturday, 6 a.m., I was like, oh my God, Monday, 9 a.m., I need to be back in the office as a boss to 25 people running a business with all these clients.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd be like, I have to sleep, like I have to sleep.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd take a sleeping pill, and then I was just getting lost in these cycles of like unhealthy weekends, just losing myself on the weekends, and then going back on a Monday into these crazy like get on a spinning bike at 6:30 a.m., black coffee, cold brew, empty stomach, no food.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we all have been there like so much.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but unfortunately for me, it had to get to a point that one of those weekends just went like really traumatically wrong.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I ended up in a horrible, horrible situation that I would never wish on anyone.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I think for me, the next day, I wasn't able.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, do you know what?
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: That Monday morning, I got back on a spinning bike.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: I got back on a spinning bike, same cycle as ever.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but after the class, I stepped inside the bathroom, I locked myself in a stall, and I just fully broke down.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and for anyone listening to this, I'm sure tons of your listeners are really open to the more energetic side of things, which I love, and I can't wait for the whole world to be more like everyone listening to this podcast.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I I had this like vision where I stepped inside the stall and it was like my chest bone, like the the middle of my chest, the clavicle or whatever it's called, cracked open and all of this like black stuff came like pluming out of it.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not sure if I saw that, if it was a vision.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like I don't oh, sorry, there's me saying I'm not gonna hit the microphone.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if I saw that, I don't know if it was a vision, I don't know what it was, but I know in that moment it was like I had this breaking down moment where I was like, fuck, the the stuff that is inside of me is so black, it's so dark, and I'm holding it all in, and it was almost like I can't hold it in anymore.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so for me, I fully broke down.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I remember I just walked around London, I was crying, I called my best friend.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: I just was like, I just don't know what to do, I can't go to work.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: I I really hit rock bottom in that moment, and I realized that my ability to just keep going was like, I just couldn't keep doing it.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so at that point, it didn't actually take me courage to step inside the therapy room because I was desperate.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: I was desperate to to change these cycles, to break them, to rewrite them.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: And now, and ever since, there's been no courage involved because I'm like therapy healing coaches are the best thing ever.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: But like you said, I can imagine that people that aren't at crisis point, or that people that are at crisis point, it can be really scary to have to face up to that darkness.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: But all I can say to you is facing up to that darkness that was within me all along was the best and most beautiful thing I've ever done.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like my whole life has changed since I went to therapy, since I started doing energetic trauma release for my pain.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's been the only thing that's ever, ever helped me with my pain.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: Life has changed for me.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: So if anyone is nervous of facing up to it, I would say it's gonna be uncomfortable.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: It is like you have suppressed these emotions for as long as you can remember, often from childhood.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, it's gonna be fucking scary.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, I don't know if you swear on this podcast.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um okay, good.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: I got a I got a passionate mouth.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, so I would just say like it is scary, but it's also gonna be beautiful and it's also gonna lead you to like a whole new chapter of your life.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm excited for anyone listening.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like that was just like a very uplifting.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, you feel like a very well-rounded answer.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: But I also want to tie into that is like how you explained that you grew up in a quote-unquote normal childhood.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because I feel like even I encounter people like, well, like my childhood was normal, like nothing big happened, and you don't have to have like big T trauma, and I know you had some other traumatic things later down the road, but you don't have to necessarily be, you know, physically abused or sexually abused when you're young to have trauma that needs to be dealt with in a way that's maybe it's your perfectionism, and you don't even realize that like that is traumatic for you and your brain to be in that cycle, and you learn that when you were little.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: So, can you?
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've dived in before, but from your perspective, just even wrapping your head around the fact of like, oh, even though it was like quote unquote normal, and maybe like I had normal mom and dad around, whatever it was, it was still from the perspective of your child, traumatic in how they experienced it.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, totally.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I would say that this really is only something that has even become really clear for me in the last six months.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I grew up in a yeah, a good family.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: My father worked very hard, he made a lot of money, he was self-made, like he really, really provided for us, but he was very physically absent.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I have next to no memories of him, let alone memories of him hugging me.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like I just have no memories, and sometimes I don't know if that's like the trauma and the overwhelm to my nervous system, or if those memories just didn't actually happen.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: So he physically wasn't around a lot, he emotionally wasn't around a lot.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, in the last six months, you know, we've always kind of made fleeting comments about my dad being on the spectrum, um, suffering from aspergias or some kind of light autism.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: But it's really only in the last six months that I've really connected the puzzle pieces between, oh my goodness, like, yeah, I grew up with a parent that wasn't able to emotionally attune to me, who wasn't able to do certain things, even though he loved me, even though he cared for me so much, like I know he does to this day, and I know that he did when I was younger.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so I would say that I grew up in an emotionally suppressed household on my father's side.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: People don't talk about that.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: The day that we talk about emotional disconnection in childhood and the connection to physical symptoms, to emotional symptoms in adulthood will be a beautiful revolution in the world today.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, very emotionally suppressed on the father's side.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I had a very frustrated mother.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: She did everything, you know, emotionally.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: My dad wasn't there a lot.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: She was very angry.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: She was very frustrated.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: There would be lots of erratic like frustrations being voiced.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I kind of lived in this crazy like conflict between like a lot of anger and frustration and total emotional suppression.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I think for my nervous system, what I've learned is like it was either in shutdown and disconnect or it was in total overwhelm.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: So a huge part of my life has been learning to find this middle ground, which involves just being able to be regulated and to communicate without flying off the handle.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, still something I'm working on today.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I think that that point around emotional suppression, emotional neglect, I hate using the term still.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: I feel so guilty to my father to even throw the word neglect in.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: But but that is that is the truth of it.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like that is the reality of it.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: And even just like you said, breaking out of that cycle of being addicted to like the high and the low and the high and the low, like it takes time because that's something that was wired into your system.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to take time to kind of unlearn that habit because it's almost like your body's default is like addiction to that.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're not writing like that, it's like, oh, something is actually wrong.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: And even when you start to regulate, you're like, that's new for you.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so even that can become unsafe.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's like, oh, getting normalizing the fact that this is what it feels like to actually be regulated, nothing is wrong just because I'm not regulated, you know.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: I also want to take this a couple different directions.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I based on what you said about your dad, I feel like we have to go into attachment style in a second.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: But even just saying what you said at the end about the neglect and feeling guilty, something I think I always try to stress with people is that we are never wronging parents, we are never shaming them.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like you said, he loved you, he wanted to be there, he's building something for his family.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: That doesn't necessarily mean that that little girl inside of you didn't interpret it in a separate way or didn't have her own feelings.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so, even just giving yourself the permission to honor the fact that, like, okay, that younger of me felt that way, I can know logically as an adult, dad wanted best for me, dad loves me, but there's that small part of you that misinterpreted or understood it a different way, had it in perspective.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: And even the permission to honor her, start opening up those feelings and those doors is like a huge thing, I think, for so many people.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because if mom and dad had good intentions, it's like, well, they loved me.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: We're not blaming if mom was a single mom, maybe, and neglected you because she's working three jobs to put food on the table.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: But let's also honor that little girl who just wished mom was around more, wish she gave her more hugs or more words, or maybe they motive us, motivated us to be perfectionists, you know.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: My mom, I always remember this.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: I came home with a 98 on a science test, and she asked me what the 2% was.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I gets burned in my mind.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: I can still see the bathroom and everything, and that's like something I always remembered, right?
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: But do I know she wants the best for me?
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: Does she push me to be the best?
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: That does not mean there was a very like harmed little girl in there who needed healing, who needed to kind of deal with that.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you so much for even just acknowledging the fact that there it can be a little bit of guilt or not wanting to even honor that little girl's feelings sometimes because we know how our parents feel about this.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: And we're never wronging them or shaming them, but it's just about honoring that little girl.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: Every time I talk about it on a podcast, there's still a sense of guilt that I carry that I'm sharing with so many thousands of people, like things that are probably going to be very painful for a parent to listen to.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: But I also feel like if we do not have these conversations, then we continue to perpetuate the silence that is the biggest problem in today's society.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: The disconnection and the alonement.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's not a word.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: The disconnection and the alone, the aloneness, not alone, but you know, we ultimately feel and we we don't connect over and we don't share and then we don't heal.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's it's something still that I'm navigating, and I really appreciate you sharing your story as well.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that, you know, well, I don't love it.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: I obviously hate it that you have that memory, but I'm grateful that you have that memory because it's something that's solid and tangible.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: So you can be like, wow, in that moment, my nervous system was so overwhelmed.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like I can connect the dots between A, B, and C.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think one of the even harder things is like when we don't have the memories, which is like me.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: So then I'm like, I'm like, you know, for so long, I would let my mum build the story around what happened because like my mum would be vocal, and as a child, I'd just absorb what my mum said.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's so this is just all so crazy to navigate.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I just am so grateful that there are so many incredible men and women out here doing it, and that we can have these discussions and being like, fuck, I don't have any memories of that, or like, wow, I have this memory in the bathroom of this and my mum.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it's just so beautiful that we're starting to be able to share that.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: And hopefully, more and more people connect at us, and as we all kind of like talk about this more and more, realizing all those little connections that's probably influencing your life, your physical symptoms, everything like that.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's not necessarily like the big T trauma that we think about.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: So, given the fact that like your dad wasn't as present as you wanted him to be, and I know you've talked about attachment style and anxious attachment recently on your podcast.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: How do you feel, or how have you even learned through the guests you've had on your podcast and everything like that, how important it is in terms of like your attachment style and how you relate in intimate relationships now, and even how you do or how you did with your parents?
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, such a good question.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: Because I would say that my anxious attachment style would like drive my relationships in my 20s because I wasn't even aware of what an attachment style was.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and yeah, my anxious attachment style was definitely formed because there were moments of emotional attunement that were not there.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the little kid that wants to put her hands up and wants to be hugged, maybe couldn't do that because dad wasn't there, or learned not to do it because dad wasn't able to pick me up or whatever that was, that led to the development of this anxious attachment style.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: And in adulthood, it's just driven my relationships by being like so hypersensitive to the other person, always being aware of their.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm a very sensitive person as it is, but like being hypersensitive to their energy, their shifts, words that they say, you know, if they're watching the TV when they're talking to me rather than looking at me, I think it makes us so sensitive to so many small things that it can feel like exhausting to live with, like exhausting.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, it's really funny that you ask this now because so I've been with my current partner for a year, and you know, I've come so far with my anxious attachment style, it really doesn't play a part in our relationship whatsoever.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: But last night he um we went out for dinner, then he everyone was going out, out.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I'm like, I'm very in my like home body era.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: It was like 11.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, babe, I'm going home.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm also recording two podcasts tomorrow morning.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: I want to be fresh and my brain be like on.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: Also, I just like not big into partying right now.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: So he dropped me home and then he went out and I was like, great, I love this.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: This is amazing.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: I want to be in a relationship where my partner has total freedom to do whatever he wants to do.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: And it was so nice.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like I came home and I lay in bed and I did a meditation and I said a prayer, like things that I just didn't do or I don't do when I have my boyfriend in bed with me, you know, every night.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: And then it was so funny because I woke up at like 1 30 and I rolled over and I looked at the time.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: And in that sleepy mode, my nervous system kicked back in in the way that it used to be.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I just got this like oh.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Overwhelming panic of where is he?
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: What's he doing?
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: Why hasn't he texted me?
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I was able to rationalize it.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: And literally nine minutes later, he walked through.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, nine minutes, that is the anxious attachment.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you know, to the minute of like how many damn fucking minutes it's been.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: Nine minutes later, he walked, he walked through the door.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it was just so interesting to see that it's there, it's under the surface, but with active awareness, regulation, management, and healing, it doesn't have to define you.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't have to define your relationships.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's what's really beautiful about attachment styles is like we can change them, we can heal them, and we can regulate them.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, especially for people who don't know, you're not always with and living with your boyfriend.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: There are times where you're in London and you're far away.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like distance and separation and even like time zones, so your day is not gonna be the same, can almost be like fuel to the fire as an anxious attachment.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: I anxious attachment over here definitely matters a little.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I just wanted to come on here quickly and let you guys know about attached.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: This is my new masterclass for healing your attachment style to feel safe and secure in relationships.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: We are going to be doing somatic healing in this class to get to the root of your attachment style, which is crazy because this is the first time I've ever done somatic healing in a masterclass.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: So you definitely do not want to miss this.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: Essentially, you're gonna feel empowered knowing how to identify your triggers in a relationship.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: You'll leave feeling ease because you actually have the strategies to implement.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so that little girl gets that love and safety that she needs.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: Not to mention, because we get to the root, you're gonna actually feel free and that energy is gonna leave you feeling relieved and light so yet your nervous system can recalibrate.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: Essentially, you're gonna be confident knowing that you are on your way to becoming an energetic match for your dream relationship.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: Now notice how I said relationship because you can still apply these things even if you are in one.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: So with that being said, definitely come to the attached masterclass.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: We will leave a link down below.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: Healing your attachment style heals your nervous system and just allows it to regulate better, as you will have learned in my podcast episodes.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: So with that being said, I cannot wait to see you there.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: How have you used or how do you manage that?
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: Or how is that that like added feel to the fire and or almost allowed you to cope better and develop, like, do you know what I mean?
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of going totally relationships.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I think the that there's two sides to it.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's like one is you and two is the relationship.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: So if you start with the relationship, like as an anxiously attached person, you are never going to be able to find safety and stability in a relationship if you are with a heavily avoidant, inconsistent, or unsafe person.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: That is the truth of the matter.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: And trust me, I am speaking from experience because I have dated so many damn avoidant men, and my whole 20s was like the avoidant attachment, like uh the anxious avoidance cycle, just like ruining my life.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I say that's the first thing is like I'm just with an incredibly stable, grounded, I wouldn't even say overly communicative.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like communication is not his strong suit.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: He is more of a man of few words than like me, who's a woman of lots of words.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but everything is very stable, everything is very safe.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: We're able, I'm able to share my experience.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: This is my attachment style, this is how it makes me feel.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's on me to navigate, but there are some things that you can do to help me, i.e., if you go out to do X, Y, and Z, or you know, with the time zones, if you're doing this, you know, we have a couple of, I don't like to say rules, but just like, just like agreements in place that are like, you know, boundaries for a healthy relationship.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: So the first part is I would say him, he makes it so easy to be less anxious.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the second one is, yeah, it's on you, it's it's on me, is understanding the cycle.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that you start in a place of regulation, there will be a threat, that threat is disconnection, that threat is abandonment, that threat is rejection, that threat is distance, some kind of threat.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's the trigger, that dysregulates you, and then you shift into a space of dysregulation, at which point, if you're not aware of this cycle, you're gonna move into protest behavior, which is freezing them out, texting them all the time, calling them, where are you?
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: Why haven't you messaged me?
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: Posting to social media to make them jealous, to make them think, oh, hey, I didn't know that she was going to a barbecue or whatever it is.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then understanding that that cycle is driven on them reconnecting with you, and then that re-regulates you.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: For me, understanding that cycle has helped me to basically rewrite it, to be like, okay, when I have a fear, when I have a trigger, it's gonna dysregulate me, but I'm gonna work to regulate myself.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna protest, I'm gonna outwardly calmly communicate if that is even necessary.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, last night when I woke up at 1 a.m.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: and he hadn't texted me, I could have texted him being like, You haven't messaged, question mark, or where are you?
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: question mark.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: And in that moment, I was like, I don't need to protest.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: He is coming home.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: I have no reason not to trust him.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: Just don't do it, Louise.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I didn't.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: And like I just, like I said, he walked in literally nine minutes later.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm so glad that I didn't.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, the second part is like understanding that cycle and understanding how you are the only person that can ever truly regulate your nervous system.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, you can regulate together, but in these moments of disconnection, that person is not there to do that with you, and it isn't on them to regulate with you.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like you have to learn how to regulate, and then together you can like double regulate, which is the best thing ever.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure you've you've spoken about that lots before as well.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: And what I think is also very important, like you said, you're not with someone who's avoidant.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because as an anxious person, it's like you try to, I don't know, it's like mat it for an avoidance style, which just makes it so much worse.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: So even just having a partner who isn't like that is just going to take some of the fuel off the fire in terms of like your anxious, because that only obviously makes it worse.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: They pull back and then you're like, no, don't leave, don't abandon me, like and it triggers all those moods.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: So what would you say to someone who then perhaps is with someone who's avoided?
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think that they then need to like leave that part?
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: I know, like, I see your face, but like what recommendations if you're like, oh, I think like the person I'm with, like, I know he's more avoided, he pulls back, he's like this.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: How would you, putting the onus back on you to regulate yourself, be like, okay, do I stay in this knowing that this is gonna be harder for me to regulate?
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: I want to take responsibility for my self-regulation.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: What kind of what would you say to them?
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, such a good question.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: There's gonna be a couple of painful home truths here.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I get on TikTok all the time.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: How do I make an avoidant love me more?
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: How do I make them feel safer so they'll stay closer to me?
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: The truth is, you don't.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: The only way an avoidant person will love you more is when they learn to tolerate intimacy.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: It is not on you.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: There is nothing, there is literally nothing you can do to make an avoidant person tolerate intimacy more.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: And that is something that people just do not want to hear.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: They don't want to fucking hear it.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's really triggering.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: And don't get me wrong, I have been there.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if I just wait, give them space, love them more, I can help them, I can fix this.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: Did it ever work?
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: Did it ever work?
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: Not once.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: I have never made an avoidant person love me more, be more intimate with me.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: It just hasn't worked like that.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: So my first point would be understanding that the avoidant feels safe when they have a barrier, a buffer, or a distance between the both of you.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: The only way that they're ever gonna step across that barrier is when they have awareness and a conscious decision that they they want to step over that barrier.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: They want to learn to tolerate the discomfort of intimacy.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: There is nothing you can do other than communicating with them.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: My love, I think you might have an attachment.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, my love.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: I've been reading into these amazing things called attachment styles.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'd love it if we could do a quiz together.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I think you might be avoidant, I think I might be anxious, you know, make it a loving, make it a loving experience together.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: Don't sit there and accuse them.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: You have this, it makes me feel like this.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: Make it a couple's exercise.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if they are not even willing to take a quiz on their attachment style, I think sadly that that says it all.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's like even the prospect of discussing intimate states is too much for them.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I've just gone off on such a tangent there, I can't even remember what the question was.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: But um, oh yeah, the second part of the question you asked is is would you leave?
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: I now the therapists on my podcast, they would say you should leave because they don't believe that you truly can thrive in an anxious, avoidant relationship unless both partners are deeply committed to meeting in the middle of intimacy.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think it starts with having that conversation, the discussion around the attachment styles and the how do you feel about this?
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: Are you curious about this?
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to do something differently here?
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna put a number on it, but a number a big number of people will not want to do anything differently.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: And if that is the case, then yes, you should look to step away from the relationship if you truly want to experience deep emotional intimacy with a person, because the chances are it's not going to be with this person.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I think where people get frustrated is even how you said, like, oh, you're avoiding, you should do this, you should do trauma release or do that.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, why can't I get them to do this?
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, if they don't want to, like, that's you you can't force them, even if you were trying to make them sit down, go to therapy, and do this.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: If they're not self-motivated, they don't actually want to, then it's only gonna create more distance, and it's actually interesting.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: You reminded me as you were recounting yours, when I used to be really anxious, it's like you give off so much love, and I can give up words of affirmation and gifts and that, and it's like you're throwing so much at the avoidance.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: The avoidance, like, oh no, this is too much, back away even more.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: As an anxious, give more, more than a lot of people.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: Literally, oh, this is why it's horrible.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you're giving them even less space, and they're like, Oh, but like what you said, they're not even gonna be willing to do a quiz or even bring to light, then it's gonna be really hot tough for even you to then know how to regulate or even feel safe if you're especially really anxious already to do so in like almost the environment that made you sick.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you can't heal in the environment that makes you sick.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you could, like you say, heal in the relationship.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: Not that that made you, because you're attachment styles when you were little, but even just giving yourself a degree of separation so that you're not constantly bombarded with having to almost deal with an avoidant as you kind of do your own healing.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think the trickiest thing is like a ton of people out there on social, on TikTok talk about this concept of mirroring.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: So they say, oh, you just have to mirror the avoidant to make them feel safe because you give them space.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: That is so wrong.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we do not do that.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: We are not mirroring someone's unhealthy, like it's it's an unhealthy behavior if you're avoidant.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not shaming them, like as anxiously attached people too.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like a lot of our behaviors can be unhealthy too.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: But I just want anyone listening to if you are working on the premise of like, I'm just gonna pull back and give them some space in the hope that they then will step forward.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: That is step one of the cycle that you said the anxious avoidance cycle.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: You step back, they step forward, as you step forward together, they step back.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: The whole thing just becomes this chase, this chase, this chase.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I love it about yeah, you saying like separation is really important, but not done with the intention of mirroring.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: This concept of mirroring is unhealthy.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: And you're always, even if you think you're stepping back, you might be stepping back, like, oh, you're not texting inside as an anxious.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: You're holding a lot, and it's your nervous system's like, no, text, don't text, don't you?
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: Literally, like, oh, I'm gonna pretend like I'm not thinking about it, like I don't care, and like your nervous system.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like, when is he gonna text me?
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then he does, and then as soon as he steps forward, you're like, I'm okay, I'm loved, we're gonna be okay.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's just like, let's go full-fledged.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I think people don't even realize it's not even like a little bit, like it's a full roller coaster of emotion, of like the pulling back, the in, and that in itself is exhausting.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I'm really glad you touched on this concept of like neurotransmitters, because that's another thing that has been fascinating for me to learn is like the anticipatory dopamine reward cycle is so important for everyone to understand because we think of dopamine when we just get something and it feels good.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: But what the studies have shown is that we get dopamine being released as we're also waiting for the thing to happen.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: So if we're waiting for someone to text us, it's it's like we're getting dopamine in that moment.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: So our nervous system is stressed.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: We're in fight or flight, we have cortisol and adrenaline pumping out, but then we also have dopamine pumping out.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why I think we never shame or judge anyone, including ourselves, that have been in these cycles, because there's something really weirdly fucked up feeling good about being in the anxious avoidance cycle, like the dopamine hits, the chase, the adrenaline, they text, have they texted?
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, they haven't.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, they have, yes, you know, we're not judging anyone.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: We've all been there.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: But I think to understand that this is biochemically driven is really important to also help you to start to understand how to break and heal and rewire these cycles.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: And exactly why you can be almost like addicted to the cycle.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: And once you've stopped the cycle and you're not getting that dopamine, you're like, oh, I'm not getting that dopamine, something must be wrong.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they're too safe, they're too normal.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, no, this is just like we're not supposed to be having this constant roller coaster.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: It it is an addiction, and it's something that I really want to go into more this year, is what I've learned is like the baseline neurotransmitters that get set in childhood drive these toxic and addictive behaviors in adulthood.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: And when I connected the dots on that, I was like, oh, that makes so much sense.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why I've been in so many toxic relationships, why I love the anxious avoidance cycle.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I'm now in such a stable relationship.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: But even my boyfriend says that every once in a while I'll try and cause a fight over literally nothing.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, no, I don't.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, Yes, babe, you do.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like it will be over nothing.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: But that biochemical, like part of me, like needs that hit still.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so now I've got very good at regulating it and being like, no, Louise, you don't need to do that.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it's just so important, like you said, to understand this is wired into us, and this is why the emotional like trauma piece, the nervous system piece is the piece that is missing from traditional medicine today.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you just need to be working on these deeper levels.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: You can't just change things like in your in your conscious mind.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's not enough.
• 36:55
  unknown: Yeah.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: And even trying to change it in your conscious mind, not everything is even in your conscious mind for you to be aware of, but also that's where you might get frustrated being like, Well, I'm trying to change this conscious mind, like, why isn't it working?
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing all this work, why isn't it working enough?
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: And you're working with so much more than just what's in your conscious awareness and just not even beating yourself up about it.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I I love that you're gonna be bringing more of this discussion to it because just having people understand those different levels, and you're like, oh, okay, they don't have to feel maybe as frustrated, they kind of know all the different realms and aspects they need to work with as well.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I know you also brought in sex into your podcast uh in 2022, and I know there's been a lot of episodes.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: Was there anything that was like an aha or like kind of like really shocked you or like not revealed something to you that you thought was just really interesting that you feel like most people don't know when it comes to sex?
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: The thing that I'm like most fascinated recently, I've just recorded a podcast on this, but it hasn't gone out, is like the why behind people orgasm.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, that doesn't make sense.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: The why behind why some people orgasm.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: And this for me has been like crazy because I always just thought like you have sex because it feels good, you want to be close to your partner, you want to be intimate.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: And what I've learned from a sex therapist is like there are so many reasons that people orgasm.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: And some of them can include procrastination, you know, because you're bored, because you need to stimulate your nervous system, because it's a coping mechanism.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I look back and I had a boyfriend who his coping mechanism from intense childhood trauma, and I would call it big T childhood trauma, was masturbation.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so we entered into this relationship, and it was like he could not go to sleep, he could not soothe without masturbating or without us being intimate.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: And it got to the point where, like, in a long-term relationship, I don't want to do that every night.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I just want to go to sleep.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: And when I just wanted to go to sleep, like, you know, that was when I was like, oh, there's a cycle here around why he needs to do this.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: So that for me is like it's it's a really niche answer, but it's something that I've I've found so fascinating recently, is like the why.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, why do you need to be intimate in that moment?
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what is driving it?
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: Is it something biologically within you?
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: Is it a need for validation from your partner?
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if your partner doesn't want to have sex with you, what's the story that you build around that?
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and that's the other thing is like we all have these different sex stories.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: Our sex story is based off what we were taught in our childhood.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what were you taught that your genitals were called?
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what were you taught about nudity?
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what were you taught about sex?
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: What movies did you watch that shaped, you know, your thoughts of sex?
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: Did you grow up in a religious background that impacted that?
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: We all have like so many nuances around sex.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, sex is so complex.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like, my sex life has not been has not been easy.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: My relationship with sex is still, I've done a lot of healing on it, but it's still definitely something that can bring up a lot of trauma for me.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I just love that.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: As the other thing is like understanding your own unique sex story can be a really empowering journey to like go on in terms of a deep dive.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I love that.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like you must be a one-line in human design.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: Because I feel like you're like me, very inquisitive, and you just like you love learning and understanding new things and understanding the why, and just like learning information.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I wouldn't be surprised if like that's part of your your design.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: I don't actually know what I am, so we might have to look at that.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: You might need to help me.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not very good at like all of that thing.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like I might be like a five-one or something, but I don't have a five-one.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: I really feel like I'm five-one and I'm a five-one just because the way you are reminds me a lot of me, and just like, yeah.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's crazy.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, wait, yeah, you're a Sagittarius as well.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: No wonder I like you.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like, oh, we met and I was like, oh, I really like her, and I really like her fiance too.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, this is just like a really great people here on the beach with me in Toulum.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: So that's crazy that we're the same.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: I honestly don't know enough about it.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's something that I need to like look into more.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll have to talk about that off-camera.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's just like I find understanding a little nuances.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, oh, that explains why I'm like that.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just it's a little interesting.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think that's like the point about this journey that we're all on, is like it is a jigsaw puzzle.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_01: It is so intricate.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_01: And like the craziest thing is like when I'm doing this trauma release with my practitioner for my chronic pain, he will take me back, he'll say, Okay, there was an incident at six years old, because he does muscle testing and he talks directly to my subconscious mind, which I'm so obsessed with because you know it more than anyone.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: 95% of us is, like you said, not our conscious mind.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_01: And he literally will be like, This happened at six, it was something that happened to you or, you know, around you, or whatever it is, he'll he'll determine what happened because we consciously can't remember.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just about fitting that jigsaw puzzle together.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like, you know, it's that beautiful moment where I've never done a jigsaw puzzle like that.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: My brain, I don't, I think I have ADHD, and I'm like, the thought of doing a jigsaw puzzle is like never gonna happen.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: But I love that idea of like, I feel like I'm doing a jigsaw puzzle with my life.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I'm putting it all together and then you connect it.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like you said, you query, you query the why, you learn the educational piece, which is what you're so amazing at doing with your clients.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I love learning from your Instagram.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm always like, yeah, that makes so much sense.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: You click the puzzle together, and then I think one day you get to a point where you're like, oh my God, look at my puzzle, look at my life, look at how it all fits together.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's so beautiful.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_00: I love how you put like a beautiful spin on your puzzle of like what might be chaos in certain corners of the puzzle, with obviously light in other corners, but it all just makes one beautiful picture at the end that wouldn't be the chaos in one corner and like the light in another.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: Literally.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: I know you've done like emotional healing, and obviously, with a chronic condition, you obviously take care of your health as well.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: So, can you share more on like how you've or what you incorporate in your life and how important health is for you day to day, even I know we were talking about it last week, or you on your stories, like the parasites you've been dealing with, or like in Tulum, just navigating the health stuff and all that.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I have to be honest, I'm finding things very, very difficult in Mexico.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm from London where you have everything on tap.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_01: You want a colonic, you want to go to Whole Foods, like you want to, like whatever you want or need, you can get.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_01: You can get any product shipped to you.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_01: The thing about Mexico is like you physically can't get things shipped to you unless they are like allowed to be shipped into Mexico.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_01: They have burnt stuff that I've tried to send in, like clean skincare products.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they just incinerate it because you they haven't paid the right tax on entry.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like, so it's very difficult to get things here.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm definitely living like a stripped back approach in Mexico.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that might be to some extent why I'm dealing with parasites.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, it's a journey that I'm on right now is like I'm I'm suffering from parasites, it's very clear, I've been taking some parasite medications.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Medication, it's been visible that I'm suffering with parasites.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it's it makes sense that with the water here, with the food here, et cetera, et cetera, that that that is a potential risk and a threat.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_01: But the other thing that I'm really fascinated about is like, why?
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what is going on in my body energetically that is allowing these parasites to stay in me?
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't have an answer to that.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's it's a conversation I only started with myself yesterday.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's a journey that I need to go on to work out what is enabling the terrain for this.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, I'm very healthy, but having a chronic pain condition, like I'm never ever sick, like I just, I just don't, my terrain doesn't show anything.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_01: I don't get skin rashes, I don't get spots, like I just don't get anything.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so the parasites are a really interesting vehicle into being like, okay, something is not is not working in there.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I'd say that the key, the key parts, I I'm not taking a huge amount of of supplements because again, it's it's really difficult to get them here.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I take a probiotic every day.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's the megaspore probiotic.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: I take that every day.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I take lion's mane every day.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like it revolutionizes my daily mental health state.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_01: I also have some cell core binders, um, they just mop up everything.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know them?
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: Cell core.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you're going to bind, if you're gonna need a parasite cleanse, like I it's cell core or nothing.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like you might as well do it right with high quality, like your cleansing.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: You don't want like cheap garbage, like cleansing that out or binding God.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_00: No, yeah, yeah.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so happy you know about cellcore.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_01: Cellcore is like if there was only one brand I could live on in this world, it would be cellcore.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I would get rid of everything else if if I only had one option.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: Cellcore is so incredible.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I actually have a friend coming out from Austin, and she's gonna bring me the Cellcore Parasite Cleanse, and I'm so excited to get that.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_01: So those are the three things that I take.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, again, you know, bottled water, just because the water here is is so, so bad.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_01: Another thing that we always say is like, oh, vitamin D, like grounding, all of that stuff.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's something that we always say, but I've never personally felt the benefits from until recently, where I didn't have a great week last week, I felt so homesick, I didn't feel very well, like I wasn't in a great state.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: I went to the beach on Sunday and just to put my feet, I got in the ocean, I put my feet like on the ground, and I just really grounded.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_01: And honestly, yesterday I had the best day ever.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like even today, like I'm flying, I feel great, I'm like on top of the world.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_01: So that's like another really key part for me is like getting out as soon as I wake up in the morning, no coffee on an empty stomach, you know, starting to incorporate more protein into my meals.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_01: Another thing that I'm really, really fascinated by is I'm just starting to see the connection between blood sugar regulation and my mood.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know enough about this, and I can't wait for you to maybe share something.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_01: But I've just realized that like I always joke and I'm like, oh, I think I'm bipolar, but you're not bipolar when it happens in a 24-hour cycle.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like bipolar is like over two weeks.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I will be on top of the world.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then at 5 p.m.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_01: today, I might literally crush the fuck out and like feel horrendous and like cry.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, that's something I really want to like get into and start to learn how to snack more.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_01: And you actually inspire me all the time with your cooking.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's something I'm not good at, is like I'm not good at cooking.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_01: I work so much, my boyfriend's so amazing at cooking, he cooks for me all the time, but like he's at work, so I'm not very good in the day of like that.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I need to get better at learning how to healthy snack rather than restricting unintentionally and then it crushing and then it being like, oh my god, I just need like a whole bowl of pasta because like that's how I work.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like the whole blood sugar mood thing, that could be a whole up episode.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't want to like uh well, we can touch on that for a second and go into it.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_00: But I remember when I saw that you were mentioning that your boyfriend cooks female, I was like, I'm like, I I know I'm a good cook, but like there's something to be said about a partner who can cook, is no offense to my fiance and really eggs, so I'm hoping.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_00: But what you said about blood sugar and dude, I mean, I think I made a reel on this maybe three two, three days ago, even just in terms of your nervous system, because your nervous system is obviously influenced by your blood sugar.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: None of women are getting enough protein.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I know in Mexico, the hardest thing is like even when you're eating out, protein's a garnish.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's not something that's like very focused on, even in like the dishes, it's like a little bit of chicken, it's not like enough, whatever or whatever meat you're eating, enough protein, and like it's the biggest thing because it's what regulates your nervous system, keeps your blood sugar stable.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so many women just aren't getting enough protein.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: I always like to say, when women come to me and they said, Oh, I have two eggs for breakfast, I'm like, congratulations, you've got half the protein you need at breakfast.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_00: Oh that's how maybe if you eat more at lunch, sure, but otherwise, two eggs, the what's what, 14 grams?
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: You need 30 minimum.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_01: I saw that on your Instagram and it really hit home with me.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, wow, I think I saved it.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, that is so important, and like no one's communicating that.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd say another challenge that I face here is like the quality of meat.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm really like, I really like to eat organic wherever possible.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_01: I understand that it's not a possibility for everyone, and even not for me.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, it's really, really expensive to do that, but it's just not possible.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's just not possible in Mexico.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like I literally said to my boyfriend, like, is there a way we can get organic meat from anywhere?
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, he's Mexican, so like he knows, and he's a big foodie.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_01: And he honestly was like, uh, like maybe from this one place I'll have to look into it, but really no.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like another thing, is like that's sometimes why I wonder if that's driving the parasites because like I'm eating this this chicken that's like really beefed up with like antibiotics and you know, toxins and stuff like that.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I find like the clean protein sources in Mexico um tricky, definitely as well.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I remember when I tried to live in Mexico in Tulum, I was like, I lasted like even after a week, I was like, I can't, I can't do it.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_00: I can't do the water and not being able to open the like and even getting the protein.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_00: We went to like gypsy, I think it's called Gypsy Market.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_00: The only place, and like that again, like you said, expensive even there, but like that was where you know the more quality stuff was, and it's just it can be difficult.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Gypsy Market is so expensive, like so expensive.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm stood in there looking at the prices, like, oh, this is so unbelievably expensive.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_01: I can't even like justify doing this more than like once a week for like a treat.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_00: So hopefully, um I have hopes with your cell core.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_00: We're we're gonna be good to go.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_00: Just uh go gentle if you haven't done one before.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I have.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_00: I have the cell core, it does not mess around.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like honestly, I'm like such a weird person.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I can't believe I'm saying this on a on a podcast to the masses, but I honestly will be in the toilet bowl with a fork, like during the parasite cleanse.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, I'm not even joking.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_01: I am I am fucked up because I am fascinated by it, because I need to see these fuckers coming out of me, and they come out of me, and I get them with a fork, and then I literally will like take a picture of it and I'll send it to my best friend who's a functional medicine practitioner.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'll be like, I'll be like, liver fluke or tapeworm, or like liver fluke or maco macosal plaque, and she'll be like liver fluke or like macosal plaque, and I'll be like, fuck.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then my boyfriend will come home from work and he'll be like, babe, and I'll be like, yeah, he'll be like, Why is there a why is there a fork um above the toilet?
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll be like, Don't touch it, don't touch it, don't touch the fork.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_00: I love you, that is hilarious.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_00: I've never done it with a fork, and I I I get seeing them, but never have I ever.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta get into that poo, you gotta bring out the things and then you gotta like rinse them.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, this is disgusting.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think we can move on from here.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_01: This is probably too much for like 98% of people.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, I I I made episodes just dedicated to bowel movement and like how to know your health based on your bowel movement, so like 100% not.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you so much for coming on.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like this was as much learning and fun, and just this is why I love you.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you just it's the humor along with just learning so much from you, and I just know that so many people are gonna learn so much from your podcast.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna leave that down below.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_00: I know I said this on Instagram, but congrats again to the one million.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like this is just the the start for you in the ripples and the effects that you're having on so many different women, just to bring light and really make it, like you said, accessible.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think you say it's like your therapy room for people who can't go to therapy.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_00: I actually think what you do is probably better than therapy.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_00: Just like in terms of like the awareness that people can then even go into therapy, even just being more aware and they can just be more aware in their day-to-day lives.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you for all that you do.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for coming on the podcast.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um my pleasure.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_01: I honestly feel like this is one of the fate my favorite podcast recordings I have done in such a long time.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like I'm so excited to be able to share this with everyone.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we've gone to some really, really important places.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_01: We've also gone to some really intricate places and some really nuanced places and also some really fun places.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it is a really powerful episode.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really sorry, everyone, for talking about my poo and the toilet bowl.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, Liv said at the beginning, like she she shares the things that other people don't share.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_01: She's she's right, I do, and it is gross.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_01: But the truth is, it's all in this quest for optimum health.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I want to know what's going on with me so I can then I can then work to heal it and rid my body of it so I can be like flourishing.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, sorry about the little TMI on the bowel movements, but you know, we like to talk about uncomfortable things.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I don't think it's TMI.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think everyone should look at their bowel movements every day to just engage it with their health.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_00: Is it floating?
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_00: Is it not floating?
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_00: Is it you know, loose, is it doing any more fiber?
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like it is, I'm a big fan of like that's like a little daily report card.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_00: How are my bowels doing?
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, parasites.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, we know I feel this now.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, I'm so obsessed with this chat.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_01: This has been so much fun.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_01: I've been like smiling ear to ear.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like my my face hurts.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_01: It feels so good to laugh and to smile like this.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we need more of this in today's uh stressful and sometimes disconnected world.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's been my absolute honor to be here.