Latest / Live Free Ride Free with Rupert Isaacson / LFRF Ep 13: Kansas Carradine - Circus Cowgirl

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LFRF Ep 13: Kansas Carradine - Circus Cowgirl · Live Free Ride Free with Rupert Isaacson

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Rupert Isaacson: Welcome to Live Free Ride Free, where we talk to people who
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have lived self-actualized lives on their own terms, and find out how they
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got there, what they do, how we can get there, what we can learn from them.
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How to live our best lives, find our own definition of success,
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and most importantly, find joy.
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I'm your host, Rupert Isaacson.
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New York Times bestselling author of the Horse Boy.
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Founder of New Trails Learning Systems and long ride home.com.
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You can find details of all our programs and shows on Rupert isaacson.com.
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Welcome back to Live Free Ride Free.
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It's all about self actualization.
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And we've got somebody pretty self actualized Kansas Caridine.
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Should I say Caridine or Caridine?
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Kansas Carradine: It's actually Caridine.
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Rupert Isaacson: Caridine.
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Good job I asked.
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Those of you like me who are 5, 000 years old or so remember
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growing up with the series Kung Fu.
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At least you especially do if you're a Brit.
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And and I think also if you're American and what sort of cult that
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was and David Carradine, who was the obviously the star of that coming
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out of a, of a, of an acting family.
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Well, his daughter Kansas has taken a self actualized journey, which I
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think is unusual particularly for coming out of a background like that.
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And I think it's one we can all learn from.
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I think it's one that.
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We can all get some mentorship from I know I certainly can so I'm not gonna
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preamble too much I'm just gonna say that I I first met Kansas About four or 500
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years ago, I think it was in the early 2009 or 10, we were both at a place in
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Northern California where there was a sort of equine assisted thing going on.
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And we had a brief conversation in which I picked up a fallen deer antler,
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which I still have in this house.
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So every time I see that fallen deer antler, I'm like, Kansas caridina.
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Yes, I remember.
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And always had this sort of feeling that we would end up talking more.
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And then.
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Through the, his eminence, Warwick Schiller we met again in San Antonio
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last year at the last summit and in a raucous bar in the hotel, managed to
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work out the intention to chat further.
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So here we are.
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So Kansas, thank you very, very much for making the time.
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I know the listeners have a big treat in store.
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Can you tell us in brief who you are?
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Kansas Carradine: Oh, I think that question for anybody is
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so interesting because who we are exists in so many different
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domains, so many different levels.
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I'm a mother 1st and foremost to be 2 beautiful daughters.
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I have been largely identified in the question industry and
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when people ask, what do you do?
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I just get to say, I ride horses.
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I have been blessed to be able to, have horses be threaded
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and woven throughout my life.
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When I was 11 years old, I decided to leave home, the home that you
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referenced to was really in Hollywood, like in the thick of it, and everything
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that you could imagine that is associated with 1980s Hollywood, and
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I moved out when I was in grade six.
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And followed my nose into the horse world deeply, and then lived in a really
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authentic California horse ranch that was steeped in kind of cow horse tradition.
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And the family that cared for that particular organization
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became my foster family.
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So I often refer to them as my cowboy family or my foster family because I
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stayed there until I was 18 years old.
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That's the Riata
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Rupert Isaacson: Ranch, correct?
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Kansas Carradine: Correct.
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Yeah, we had a ranch.
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Rupert Isaacson: Tell us about that.
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And you say grade six.
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For those of us who are, who are Brits and Europeans and can't think
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in those terms, how old was that?
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Kansas Carradine: I was 11.
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Okay.
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11 years old.
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Yeah.
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And when I made the negotiation and I did, I really negotiated and I
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said, I'm going to go move into this horse ranch and I'm going to leave.
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And I had, this is 1 of those blessings that comes and we have
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different experience in life that we could say are traumatic.
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And instead of that post traumatic stress, it was really a post traumatic growth.
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That gave me the independence to move along and say, Oh yeah, I can go
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move here and I can make that choice.
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And I moved in with a different family.
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I had already bounced around quite a bit.
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Rupert Isaacson: What made you think?
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Oh my gosh, aged 11.
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Absolutely gut feeling.
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I can trust this family.
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I can, I can make that sort of a effectively self actualized
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decision at that age.
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What, what was going on with you that you felt you not only had that
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confidence, but also that discernment.
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Kansas Carradine: Certainly.
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I mean, I think again, there's so many answers to that.
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There is definitely a lot of intuition.
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And the intuition without thinking, without questioning, without insecurity
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and self doubt that comes with kind of, as we get older, we attach
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stories and we get a little bit more in our mind and we, and we hesitate.
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But intuitively I had gone there for horse for a two week horse camp.
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And initially I had just fallen in love with the lifestyle with The horses
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with living and breathing and living on a ranch that is attractive enough
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to, to, to grab any 11 year old girl.
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I think who has a passion for horses.
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And so to wake up and we had probably 40 head of horses on the ranch at the time,
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you know, over a dozen different trick riding horses and just kind of a legacy.
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It was totally a dream world.
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The, I showed up in my britches and hat and helmet.
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And the first thing that we did is put on swimsuits and ride the
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horses bareback through the river.
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And then spend all night in tennis shoes, practicing to stand up on horses or run
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beside them and really feel that blend.
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And so anyway, it was all extremely alluring.
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But the decision to move in with them is that they had created what I would
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say, a field of safety and security that was a reliable energetic imprint
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that I was attracted to that stability.
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And truly what I was seeking at that time was just grounding and stability
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and it was so wholesome and to have foster parents who are basically a
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generation older, so they were really still connected to, we could say the
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old ways there was something in my soul that really felt drawn to that.
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And so I was following again, something that's really beyond the
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mind, just this intuitive impulse.
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It's
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Rupert Isaacson: not every girl, though, who would have grown up
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in, as you say, 1980s Hollywood with all the sort of excess that
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one associates with that, who would necessarily have been able to tap into.
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Her intuition to that degree, even after, you know, a two week magical
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camp I guess what I'm fishing for is a lot of people say I wish I was
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more in touch with my intuition.
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And obviously we know that children generally are, and then it's sort
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of, you know, we told that we need to separate from it as we get older, but it.
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It doesn't sound like 1980s Hollywood was necessarily fantastic training ground
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for trusting one's intuition, or was it?
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And were your family actually A family that despite all the
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Hollywoodness actually taught you how to foster intuition to some degree
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or did it come from somewhere else?
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What do you think?
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Kansas Carradine: I honestly think it came from somewhere else and
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something that had been cultivated deep perhaps beyond different beyond
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this birth without a doubt because there was not a lot of interaction.
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I think growing up with.
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Artists who have a different assigning to heart and meaning that being in
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the field is definitely something.
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So there was always music around and there's always the desire
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to, to follow your heart in terms of being assigned with artistry.
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There was a certain amount of Eastern influences as well as, you know, my
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father was involved in some projects that worked with indigenous people and Native
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American church and things like that.
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I didn't know that.
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Okay.
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Yeah, so that was around the AIM, the original, like, American Indian movement
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that was taking place in the 70s as well.
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But there was not a lot, you know, the pendulum swings both ways in
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generations, and so I think my parents generation was extremely conservative
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and very controlling, and therefore they were very liberal to me, and so
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there was not a lot of, of, of teaching.
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Mentorship, it was just kind of, all right, we'll let you grow like a wild a
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seed in, in a field and just let you be.
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And, and perhaps that in and of itself allowed me to tap into my intuitive
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impulses because I didn't have a lot of restrictions that being said, I
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was seeking more form and boundaries, which is what I actually appreciated
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about having a German foster father.
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Okay, we had a very organized, you know, clean running ship at the,
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at the stables that appealed to me on many different dimensions.
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And then at the same time, I would say that, you know.
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Also, when you're around somewhat of a chaotic environment, then you
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start to rely a little bit more on the awareness and perceptions of
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safety and be more present to it.
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And so, since that was switched on to me at a very early age I think that made
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me aware of environments that where I felt safe and secure or environments
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that I wanted to move away from.
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And so, hence that Riding stable this it was truly a sanctuary and it had again
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the resonance of security and stability that I was attracted and drawn to
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Rupert Isaacson: do you have siblings and did they display the same degree
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of precocious intuition or is it
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Kansas Carradine: just you?
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I was raised pretty much as an only child, so my siblings were quite a bit older and
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raised in different homes, so we didn't spend that much time together at all.
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And they're artists as well, and we have wonderful time together because
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we're quite iconoclast or magnet.
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We're not your average conservative type of people at all.
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My sister and my brother both are, we're, we're all pretty eclectic but not
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because we were under the same household.
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Rupert Isaacson: Okay, so you, now you said that the couple that were running
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the Riata Ranch at that time, that the the male half of the couple was German.
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What was a German doing being running a trick riding ranch
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in California at that time?
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What was their story?
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Kansas Carradine: How did that?
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It's an amazing story and if I ever meet a screenwriter one day that can help me put
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it out it's just fabulous, but You know, he was actually from North Dakota and was
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raised on Will James Storytelling books.
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So the old Westerns always wanted to be a cowboy and at 12 years old ended up
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hopping on a train Thinking that he was going straight to Arizona, which is where
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Western life, and he ended up in Hollywood as the stable boy for Will Rogers, who
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was the biggest movie star at the time.
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And, you know, slept in the, in the mangers of the horses and end up becoming
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you know, a rider and some of the sale yards, because he was a really good rider.
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Very good horseman because German father would hook teams together and
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for plowing fields and things like that and brought that tradition.
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In a very that lineage was really established.
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So when he brought it to Hollywood, he was actually doubling Jennifer Jones
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and do a little the sun as well as Elizabeth Taylor in national velvet.
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And then he always wanted to be a cowboy, so he quit the Hollywood
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thing himself and ended up in this small town about 3 hours north.
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And he was a calf roper, but he had a car accident that quit his rodeo career.
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And because he couldn't, find a way to basically pay the
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bills for his young family.
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Somebody said, well, why don't you teach a couple lessons to my kids?
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And that four students in the first year grew into a hundred students.
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And there was a thriving, it was just destiny created this crisis.
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And he became a mentor to over, over, I want to say over 3000
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students between the 50s, 60s, 70s.
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And then I joined at the end of the 80s.
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And where did the
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Rupert Isaacson: trick riding come from with this?
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Kansas Carradine: He was always introducing lots of multidisciplinary
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masters to come in and teach the kids.
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So there was a lot of rain, cow, horse, and then, you know, rodeo.
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And then somebody came who knew some trick writing, you know, they did
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Rosenbach writing and Roman writing.
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And then the trick writing team became a demonstration team.
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And in the late seventies, it just got a lot of attention until there
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was a pivot and that became the exclusive offering in the eighties.
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And then.
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Currently today, that team still exists in a different
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incarnation, but it's still going.
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What's the name of the team now?
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It's still the Riata Ranch Cowboy Girls.
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Yeah, trick riding and trick roping.
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There's a famous old Hollywood cowboy named Monty Montana who brought
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ropes into the program And so then we started doing the trick roping
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and really I always explain it's it's such an ancient art There's not
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many people who have ever seen trick riding before much less know about it.
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And so it's wonderful that it's that's one place where it can kind of be
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nourished and And then it helped me later on, since being involved with
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Cavalia, find my path really into the circus world and the performing arts,
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this kind of vaudevillian entertainment.
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Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely.
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So, so talk us through you, you find yourself at the on this
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two week horse camp, you're introduced to this wonderful world.
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You're ready.
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Horses are already clearly in your blood.
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And you then make this decision to Basically move in and sort
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of be a daughter and, you know, become a trip rider.
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You are 11 when this happens.
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You then go out and become a performer, a public performer,
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sort of full time performer.
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At what
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Kansas Carradine: age?
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Well, I mean, I was doing the highest level shows at 12, 13.
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So it started early.
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And then maintained, I mean, we had done everything from, you know, Super
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Bowl, halftimes and 49er games to World Equestrian Games and Aquitana and all
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of those Cheval Passion, which is in Avignon, France, with a young Lorenzo,
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Lorenzo was there and Fred and Magalie who ended up hiring me with Cavalia were also
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there performing at the, at that event.
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So, yeah, it started early, which is which is a blessing in and of itself.
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I mean, I had a significant amount of burnout early on because I'd
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already done so many things and had been pushed to a very high level.
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And at the same time, I also didn't have the same type of striving.
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Like, I need to prove this.
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I really want to be able to get to this next level because it was It had already
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been attained, you know, quite early on.
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So my I guess my natural magnetism to still be in work with horses without
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was with a true love and a true desire.
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It was not because I expected it to bring me some sort of other means.
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And this is also the gift of growing up, you know, around
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celebrity and fame is because I saw really the impermanence of it.
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And it was never something that I had to strive for.
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I was just really following what.
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What what felt nourishing on a soul level, you know, the desire to be
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with horses and find that unity and have that relationship, which was
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much more the reason that's the rub.
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Rupert Isaacson: So you, but you talk about burnout and you're
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talking about burnout very young.
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How old were you in this first of perhaps more than one
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burnout and what burned you out?
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Kansas Carradine: Yeah, so, there was definitely a significant amount
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of pressure and inflexibility.
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So, all the 7 years through school and through secondary school, there
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was no option to do other things.
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I had some other passions and interests, and to be fair, I should say I was allowed
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to do you know, kind of mock trial debate certain plays and things like that.
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But I wanted to focus And get really deep into musical theater and focus
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a lot more on singing and voice.
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And that was not allowed because my commitments with
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the writing team or so big.
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So that was kind of the 1st teenage angst that I think I experienced.
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And then by the time I was 18, I really pulled back.
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And had to find my own way and I didn't want to be introduced as
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David Carradine's daughter anymore.
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I did not want to be wearing just, you know, the red, white and blue
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because I'd been doing that for so long and kind of this Americana role.
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And so.
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I actually ended up handling a love for the mountains and spending a lot of time
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up in Alpine environments and more, you know, Yosemite and the Sierra's here
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where we live living up in ski areas and following that passion and still
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doing some shows from time to time.
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And then it wasn't until I came back into Los Angeles and started going more into
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the stunt world, actually coming back into horses full time, but I was burnt
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out to the point that horses were, that had become just a job and there was not so
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much like the joy and the love behind it.
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And when I was cast for Cavalia, I had already auditioned and was
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hired before I'd ever seen the show.
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And the first time that I saw the show, I was just weeping and weeping and weeping
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because it was so beautiful and I couldn't believe that I was a part of something
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that really was much more in alignment with my core values than being in rodeo.
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So I've never gone back.
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I appreciate my rodeo roots.
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I appreciate everything that it taught me.
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And I love a lot of things about Western culture.
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But I haven't done a rodeo since, since I was 18.
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Rupert Isaacson: What year were you hired at Cavalia?
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2004.
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Kansas Carradine: So it's been 20
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years,
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Rupert Isaacson: right?
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So, and I think, I think that was the show that I saw.
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I saw it in Dallas that year and I remember also being absolutely gobsmacked
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because, you know, I'd seen beautiful equestrian spectacles before and so on.
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So they're always, they're always amazing.
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But there, I remember that there was a quality to that particular show.
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And I also remember, I, We, in our preamble, where it said that
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I also, like you, lived in Quebec.
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We'll get there later.
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And I remember I was around in Quebec when Cirque du Soleil
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first began, and I remember going to a few of the early shows.
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And when it was still something very, very new and being blown away.
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And then when that connection came with horses thinking, Oh my gosh,
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this is, this is that absolute nexus of art and passion and excellence.
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So it's, it's, it's interesting to me.
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What.
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What do you think was the, because that, that show had a particular, I
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didn't see any further Cavalia shows.
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I think I almost didn't want to because I, I felt that if it
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wasn't quite that magical again, it would disappoint me, you know?
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And, and, and so I wanted to remain with an, and I remember watching
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Frederick Pignon Magali doing.
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Taking liberty to a whole other thing that none of us had seen
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before and the trick riding being astonishing and mixed with humor and
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storytelling and just, just great.
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What do you think was going on that you ended up in the right
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place at the right time there?
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Because, you know, I, I know lots of people who've been in trick
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riding teams, good trick riding teams and that sort of thing.
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And they're all very accomplished, but this was something else.
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This was something special.
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It almost felt like there was something almost a bit occult
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or supernatural at work there.
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What took us through your experience?
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Kansas Carradine: Yeah, I mean, I always feel like there was, it was a ceremony.
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And at the time I had already been attracted to Being engaged in sacred
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relationship and being engaged in really meaningful ceremony
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and indigenous ceremonies and was really wanting to align myself with
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things that had more of an impact in ways that work on the non physical
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domain, but have really an energetic.
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Ripple effect, if that makes sense.
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So at the time I was living in Los Angeles and when I became hired for Cavalia
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and saw that I was again attracted to the resonance and this is something
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we'll get to heart math at some point, but I started to notice when we're
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attracted to energy where it's like there's a magnetism there that draws
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us in and there's a shared resonance.
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So we're really attracted to frequency and the frequency that
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Fred and Magalie would choose.
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So, yeah.
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Authentically experienced on your own, there was a way that they had
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this respect with horses that at the time was not widely broadcast.
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It's not that it didn't exist.
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And I think I heard you speaking about you know, those who are living
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a self actualized life that not not necessarily are celebrities.
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You know, everybody is there undiscovered.
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There's some of the greatest work has said that before.
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There's some of the greatest horse trainers.
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We don't know they're in, they're in doing their amazing stuff.
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Yeah, exactly.
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But this was an opportunity that it was widely broadcast.
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And since I was already, you know, a stage performer and a question
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artist for so many years, I recognized that right along as right.
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Quickly as being exceptional and unique and special, and if you gather
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2000 people under that big top every night, which we would tease, it
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can make its own weather as it is.
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Like, there's something about the geometry of that particular big top everywhere.
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We went, you know, that we have would have the craziest storms.
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You know, Quebec City had a hurricane, which it never should have had.
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Sedona or Sedona or Scott still was flooding, so there was something about
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the ceremony of 2000 people coming in to witness love between interspecies.
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In this case, it was equine and human.
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And the storytelling behind it was really.
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Touching in with that, which is ancient.
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So there was something about the tracking internally that you feel on a soul level.
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There was no words and the storytelling was very subtle.
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So it allowed you to go into this dream, like, almost shamanic kind of state.
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And it was the first time that people were truly witnessing compassion.
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On stage at a large scale, because what people would remark about, we didn't
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really have language for it then, but we were watching Fred Pignon and
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Magalie be compassionate to the horses when they made quote unquote mistakes,
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because it was really feeling and flowing with instead of following a hard line
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of, okay, this is how you execute.
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And this is the definition of success.
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So all of a sudden we stumbled upon it.
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This, it was like opening Pandora's box or opening Alice in Wonderland's
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you know, falling down the rabbit hole into a world that was really trying to
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strive for the ideals of compassion and right relationship before they were even
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becoming common in our, in our language.
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Well, you, I mean,
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Rupert Isaacson: you talk about ceremony and feeling a sense of that, were
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you thinking in those terms at that?
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age.
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And if so, where did you get that from?
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Because you by then were, as you say, a very choreographed performer.
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And okay, yes, your, your parents have been a bit around the American
23:15
Indian movement and Native American church and so on, but you've
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broken away from that environment.
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So, so where out of this highly choreographed Sort of, as
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you say, Americana type, red, white, and blue type show.
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Where were you getting these ideas about ceremony and compassion?
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Kansas Carradine: I mean, I honestly think a lot of it has to do with the
23:36
privilege of being raised in California.
23:39
And Southern California is a pretty progressive place.
23:42
And so coming back home I decided It was a very specific,
23:46
pivotal moment, to be honest.
23:48
I moved back to Los Angeles in 2001, right after September 11th.
23:52
And somebody said, hey, I can get you a job serving tables.
23:55
You just moved to L.
23:55
A.
23:56
at a really fancy.
23:57
She, she rest sushi restaurant on sunset Boulevard and it
24:01
would have been an easy thing.
24:02
So I showed up in line.
24:04
Excuse me.
24:05
And there was all of these.
24:07
Professionals and people who not likely with families and whatnot with attached
24:12
cases and suits and they were all trying to get a line because everything, you
24:16
know, there's been all these massive layoffs and we were in a huge recession
24:20
now and I took 1, look at that line.
24:22
And I was like, I don't need to do this.
24:23
I don't need this job that bad.
24:25
And I ended up working for a crystal lady for like, 300
24:28
dollars a week in Santa Monica.
24:29
And she was an energetic healer medium and.
24:33
We worked with crystals and that was the first time.
24:37
Rupert Isaacson: I
24:39
Kansas Carradine: was genuinely already seek a spiritual seeker, you know,
24:45
hungry and ravenous for everything that I could read about spirituality.
24:50
About, you know, at the time it was really anything that kind of new
24:53
age and really it's ancient wisdom.
24:55
It's, it's the occult, it's esoteric wisdom.
24:59
And so ravenous and, and all of that kind of feeding that desire I
25:04
was looking at I can't remember the name of it, but it was like a mind,
25:06
body, spirit magazine that was quite popular and there was an advertisement
25:10
in it and that's what I answered.
25:12
And, you know, when you go to an interview and they ask you for your
25:15
birth date with the time so that they can do your astrology in order
25:18
to get the job, it was that kind of a thing, you know, 20 years ago.
25:23
And at the same time, I had also can't really remember how those
25:26
contacts I just was setting out the intention that I wanted to
25:30
work again in native communities.
25:33
And so I was involved in different long dances with women's circles as well
25:37
as with the, the Shumash nation here in Southern California, which is part
25:41
of, you know, my roots and I guess I'm missing a really big piece, which yeah.
25:45
Even though I haven't done any DNA testing, I was told my whole
25:49
life, my grandmother was from the reservation in Oklahoma.
25:52
And so my mother's grandmother is Native American.
25:56
We don't know which reservation is a lot of reservations in Oklahoma.
25:59
We don't know any of those stories.
26:01
We just know that she came from Oklahoma, ended up in Texas, and
26:05
then married my great grandfather and ended up in Southern California.
26:08
And this was something that was hidden from our history because
26:13
my mother's maternal side of the family was embarrassed by it.
26:17
And so, you know, there's something called Mongolian spots, which
26:20
is an imprint that happens.
26:21
It's like Appaloosa imprint on like a birthmark that I have.
26:25
And so I was always told that, but there was really no support.
26:29
It is it's around like, the sacrum.
26:30
Yeah.
26:31
Yeah.
26:31
Yeah.
26:31
Yeah.
26:32
On your bum.
26:32
Basically a little when you're a baby, and then they kind of, you know, fade out.
26:38
So I had always been connected to that.
26:41
Internally, not because there was a lot of external influence and so I was
26:46
seeking out to be a part of ceremony and had started doing, you know, sweat
26:51
lodges and I ended up going to South Dakota and spending time with, those that
26:56
are actually outside of the reservation, because they haven't signed the treaty
26:58
in Lakota homes, is different than, you know, being on Pine Ridge, but had
27:03
always wanted to give back in any sort of way, as well as learn to be more
27:07
in alignment with the natural world.
27:09
Was that
27:10
Rupert Isaacson: happening, was that happening during the same time that you
27:12
were riding with the Riata Ranch, or was this in that, in the interim period?
27:17
Kansas Carradine: Correct.
27:17
It was during that interim period.
27:19
So you went, you went actively out looking for this stuff?
27:21
Right before I came to Kivalya.
27:22
Right.
27:23
Absolutely.
27:23
Yeah.
27:24
Now, for the point that I will laugh about this because, you know, there's certain
27:29
ways that you're supposed to follow.
27:31
You know, trying to get work, for example, in Los Angeles, you're supposed to stay
27:35
in town and follow the momentum and I would maybe get a little breadcrumb and
27:40
that would kind of sustain me for a while.
27:41
And then I would leave town and then I would go to North Dakota and go
27:45
spend time with native people or, you know, end up out and in You know,
27:50
my manager couldn't get a hold of me because I was checked out and hiking
27:54
up in, in, in the wilderness somewhere.
27:57
So I was not a very good actor.
27:59
Rupert Isaacson: Right.
27:59
Well, but hold on where we, where we left you was, in
28:03
Santa Monica at a crystal shop.
28:05
And now suddenly you've got a manager and you're doing some Hollywood jobs.
28:09
So what happened there?
28:11
You, you decided
28:12
Kansas Carradine: actually.
28:14
Yeah.
28:14
I mean, it all just kind of unfolded.
28:16
I had moved down there to spend some time because there was a certain amount
28:19
of encouragement to be a part of the family business and the family legacy.
28:24
And so I was, you know, taking acting classes and was going out
28:29
on some auditions and my dad would tease, you know, cause I would.
28:33
He's like, wow, you're about in a thousand.
28:34
Everything you go out on, you've been booking.
28:36
But my, my heart wasn't in it.
28:38
And so I was always trying to, was
28:40
Rupert Isaacson: this straight up acting or was this also riding?
28:43
Kansas Carradine: So it ended up taking both sides.
28:47
So yes, there was some straight up acting and that was always kind of
28:50
like the desire for You know, the family encouragement, but I, when I was
28:56
visiting with a A livestock contractor, he had worked with my grandfather.
29:01
He had worked with my dad and all my uncles and he said,
29:04
oh, you went to be at a ranch.
29:05
You sure can ride.
29:07
I've got some work for you.
29:08
And so my 1st job we're actually, you know, for the screen actor skill.
29:12
We're doing stunt work.
29:13
I did both and then there's always, they're always to have that judgment
29:18
of like, well, you can't do both.
29:20
You can either do the stunt world or you can do be really
29:23
focused on being a serious actor.
29:25
So again, those were like the, you're, you're in an artistic artistic environment
29:30
and already you have these constructs that society wants to put on you.
29:33
You can't do it this way in that way.
29:35
And I care for such labels.
29:40
Rupert Isaacson: Quick rewind.
29:40
You'd said that one of the reasons that you burned out was that you, there were
29:43
some other things you wanted to explore, including singing in musical theatre.
29:47
Well that's acting.
29:48
And there you are in Hollywood.
29:50
So, had you lost the desire for that by then?
29:54
Kansas Carradine: Yeah, because I realized That I mean, I enjoyed performing and
29:58
I enjoyed being on the live stage, which is why when Cavalia came along,
30:02
it was really easy to join the circus, basically it's a little bit of a different
30:07
texture as opposed to being on set.
30:09
And so, you know, and then there was a time when after I
30:14
had been on the show for some.
30:15
For a while, for a few years or something.
30:17
My dad gave me, you know, when I teased one of those left handed
30:19
comments of, you know, what you're doing is actually kind of cool.
30:23
Like, Josh thinks, you know, after all these years.
30:27
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
30:28
Parental encouragement is an interesting thing.
30:30
We've all got fun stories that way.
30:32
I wanted to ask you though you, you were reaching out also at this interim time
30:36
before Kivala, I want to get back to Kivala in a minute, but you said you were
30:39
going up to North Dakota, spending time with Lakota, going to spend time with the
30:44
Chumash, who for those listeners who don't know, the Native American world, that's
30:48
the, that's the tribe that is sort of the most prevalent in the California that
30:52
we think of as California, that sort of strip that goes up from Los Angeles North.
30:57
I think that was really interesting.
30:58
But what a lot of listeners might not know particularly listeners from
31:01
the UK and so forth, is that that's not an easy world to penetrate.
31:05
I've spent various bits of my life in and around bits of Native America as well.
31:12
And it's, it's not, it's, you know, it's not necessarily a very inclusive
31:17
world because of, you know, the history and the trauma and so on.
31:20
And particularly The Lakota and particularly the Chumash.
31:24
I just happened to know that.
31:26
How did you, what was different for you that you could penetrate
31:30
those worlds so easily?
31:32
Because it's not
31:33
Kansas Carradine: easy.
31:37
It's true.
31:37
I think what's coming to my mind first and foremost is the value that My mentors
31:44
from Riata Ranch being more traditional and teaching the value of silence and
31:49
teaching the value of respect to elders and teaching the value of humility
31:55
and deep listening and that sense of cultivated presence all of those things
32:01
that I showed up with There's like an energetic key signature that allows
32:08
again, it's about establishing safety.
32:11
Do we trust this person?
32:12
Can their mind be quiet to receive information?
32:16
And so the aspects of, of, of humility and respect I find were certainly part of the
32:24
portals and really remaining authentic.
32:28
I mean, I used to always say I prefer to be around the horses in, in Hollywood
32:34
because you can't Be fake around horses.
32:39
You have to be authentic.
32:42
And there's obviously a lot of smoke and mirrors that take place
32:45
with regards to the Westerns and Hollywood and things like that.
32:48
An actor will show up and be like, yeah, I can ride.
32:50
And very quickly, it will be discovered that that was a lie.
32:53
But by and large.
32:55
The horses were teaching me about being authentic and carrying
32:59
that authenticity with me.
33:01
It's, it's something that you can, you know, there's a,
33:04
there's a, it's a palpable,
33:06
Rupert Isaacson: Oh, for sure.
33:06
And I think within what you were doing with that level of trip riding, I grew
33:11
up in Leicestershire, partly in the UK, which is the heavy, heavy fox hunting.
33:17
It's team chasing, steeple chasing, point to point, cross country riding,
33:21
whether, you know, the fences are bananas and you can't see on the other side
33:24
of them and you just get, everyone's getting mangled around you all the
33:27
time and you have to trust your life to the horse and you, you, you can't.
33:34
As you say, sharp and authentically, and I think all the people I know
33:38
who, who trick write like that.
33:40
It's, it's the same that, that the trust it's insane, but the, the entry
33:49
I'm, I'm hopping on this, the entry into the Native American world that
33:53
must have come through relationships.
33:55
These things usually come through human relationships.
33:58
Was there a particular mentor or set of mentors who helped you go in?
34:05
And could you just talk a little bit about those relationships?
34:09
Kansas Carradine: Certainly.
34:10
And I will say one of the things that I was always present to is I think early
34:15
on I decided I really didn't want my my name to be At the forefront of an
34:22
introduction, because I didn't want it to color people's experience and I didn't
34:26
want it to give me access that I wouldn't have earned authentically on my own.
34:33
And so I would, you know, have this name Kansas and I would often just,
34:37
you know, this is Kansas and I would know people for years before
34:40
they ever even knew my last name.
34:41
Yeah.
34:42
And it's, it's been very useful at times.
34:45
And I think my, my genuine introduction into the you know,
34:49
Schumach community, there's a particular elder named choice slow.
34:53
Who's still with us, and I was honored to have his instruction.
35:02
As well as there was a woman nearby as well named red branch and then another
35:07
from that tribe named my wall and they knew of my connection with horses.
35:11
They knew of, I think my sincerity to seek and understand and
35:15
just to listen and to learn.
35:17
And so, spending time with understanding the listening and, and connection to
35:24
the, the birds, those that fly, those that crawl, the four legged, the two
35:28
legged, and the inter species relations.
35:31
It was the first time that I understood that there's really, I mean, there's
35:35
many worlds existing side by side, but that there are certain Members of the
35:40
community, for example, that wouldn't get in cars, because that type of movement is,
35:47
it disturbs your perception of movement when you can have more stillness you
35:53
know, choice low would mention oftentimes that there's 3 beyonds, beyond, beyond,
35:57
beyond, and that when we think that we're going to this getting behind the
36:02
meaning behind something, there's still many more layers even to that yet.
36:08
So, I always, I think with all my teachers, I always want to move
36:12
in just like I did when I was 11.
36:14
There was something inside that when I see mastery or recognize that type of
36:20
information, there's that willingness to really sit at the feet of the master.
36:26
And recently, I was thinking that watching Kung Fu, there's this discipleship, guru
36:32
disciple relationship that is depicted.
36:35
And I thought, wow, that was imprinted on me at such a young age.
36:38
And it's something that I really, I really love apprenticeship.
36:42
I think there's a real healthy human experience within that.
36:45
That's just something that I've been coded for.
36:47
So I really like to work with math masters and really surrender
36:51
my own idea of, of superiority.
36:55
Like, I don't know what I don't know, so please there's been many opportunities
36:58
where I could share something, but if I'm sharing, then I'm not able to receive.
37:02
So go ahead.
37:03
Rupert Isaacson: So you, you, you mentioned a master
37:05
a mentor, Choi Slow, right?
37:07
Choi Slow?
37:07
Have I said it correctly?
37:10
How did you, how'd you meet him?
37:12
And yeah, because it's, again, it's, you don't just waltz up and down Venice
37:19
beach running into Chumash elders.
37:22
So what was the process?
37:25
Kansas Carradine: So, he was living up in a a small camp, I would say, up behind
37:32
Ojai, and I was introduced to him by Maewu, who's also Chumash, and it was at
37:38
a time when I had decided I didn't want to be assigned to traditional holidays,
37:44
so this was actually the time when Americans are having Thanksgiving and I
37:48
decided that I would rather be involved in something that was, you know, meaningful.
37:53
And I was invited to go up and spend time at this camp and.
37:58
Choice low was staying there had been there for, I believe, many, you know,
38:03
weeks and months, even though the reservation is several miles away.
38:08
It was distance.
38:09
And they were, there was some efforts to be able to create
38:13
another kind of community outside.
38:15
If, you know, within indigenous communities, there's.
38:18
This is a minus is to 2 functions happening in the reservation.
38:21
Right?
38:22
And so, oftentimes there's, there's a necessity to have kind of a satellite
38:27
location and this other place.
38:30
Just the region was really connected to the land and it's
38:32
very close to where I'm born.
38:33
And so, we were, there was no other intention.
38:37
Other than really just sitting and being in presence and specifically the medicine,
38:42
like understanding the, the animal medicine and the different clans is what I
38:47
was really I guess, being educated about.
38:49
So it was talking a lot about the nature of each.
38:52
We would call it like a totem animal and how they send
38:55
messages to each of the clans.
38:57
And at the time Troy Slough was very connected to, to the birds.
39:01
And now that I'm talking about it, I'm remembering there was discussion
39:05
about like the Phoenix birds and my daughter's name is Phoenix.
39:09
And I never really made the connection until now that we're
39:11
talking that he spoke a lot about.
39:13
Phoenix's and he spoke a lot about the regenerative nature of a lot of these
39:18
birds and their spirits that humans don't always see exactly what they're
39:22
contributing to in the spirit world.
39:24
But it's interesting now that I, I share that with you that my daughter her name.
39:28
I really feel like I didn't choose the name.
39:31
It just came through like, Oh, her soul's name is Phoenix.
39:34
And so, you know, my mentorship was really brief, but the time with Choi he,
39:40
it ended up coming full circle because he actually performed, I would say
39:44
the last rites at my father's funeral.
39:47
And so he came with some other members from the Chumash nation and they were
39:52
there for the last moments when we were putting the earth onto my father's
39:56
Rupert Isaacson: grave.
39:56
Did your father know them?
40:00
Kansas Carradine: No, okay.
40:01
No, he never was introduced.
40:02
I would have liked to but it just didn't happen.
40:05
But I asked them to if they would do me the honor to be there.
40:10
And many people came up afterward and said, thank you.
40:12
That is what we needed foreclosure.
40:14
That is what we really felt was the, the most meaningful moment
40:19
of that particular ceremony.
40:22
Rupert Isaacson: Is that that area, the Ojai area is that
40:25
where you sort of grew up?
40:28
Kansas Carradine: No, I grew up in really the Santa Monica mountains.
40:30
So just a bit more south.
40:32
Okay.
40:33
So yeah, I was born in Santa Monica and then, you know, around Hollywood.
40:36
And
40:37
Rupert Isaacson: the reason I'm asking is again, not every listener.
40:41
Is coming out of the American context or, you know, knows that geography, but again,
40:46
so for those listeners who, who don't know that there's a strip of coastal hills that
40:50
goes up the sort of California coastal hills and they, they, they go from more
40:56
or less just a bit north of Los Angeles.
40:59
Up to behind San Francisco, and it's a particular landscape.
41:06
I lived, you know, so being a bit nomadic, I lived for a while in
41:10
where Berkeley and Oakland meet, and so I fell in love with those hills.
41:15
There is a magic to that landscape of these rounded, grassy, high hills,
41:23
almost small mountains in some cases, which are green in one season and
41:28
Golden brown in another season with these evergreen oak trees that snake
41:32
up and then it's it up the valleys and it's it's something rather unique.
41:36
But it goes on for sort of hundreds of miles of this strip.
41:39
And so I just want listeners to picture.
41:43
In their mind that that is when you mentioned oh, hi.
41:47
Oh, hi is probably one of the most beautiful bits of an
41:50
already sort of universally beautiful landscape in this way.
41:56
Did you just before we go to Cavalia and and your performance
42:00
there and what came after that?
42:02
Can you describe as a child of those hills and then, as you say, first growing up
42:09
in the sort of Santa Monica disconnected from the nature while still surrounded.
42:14
Because everything that surrounds Los Angeles is very beautiful.
42:18
And then connecting.
42:21
Can you just describe But people who might be driving their car in
42:26
New Zealand or Manchester or New York or wherever, or Zimbabwe, you
42:29
know, who are listening to this.
42:31
Just, can you, can you describe any moments where you really were
42:36
brought into the occult connection with an already occult landscape?
42:40
And just, just, just, just put us there.
42:43
Talk us through that.
42:44
A lot of people have never had these experiences.
42:47
Kansas Carradine: Certainly, certainly.
42:48
I mean, I was just speaking with a naturalist when I was down in Patagonia
42:52
about and asking and inquiring, you know, what was your imprint of.
42:56
Being in one with nature, being really immersed in nature as a child,
43:01
because obviously, you know, those people that are still protecting
43:04
endemic species and things like that.
43:06
It's, it's so far beyond what I believe I'm, I'm doing.
43:09
But 1 of the things that stands really clear is, my parents were living
43:15
on the beach when I was very small.
43:17
And so I spent a lot of time in and on the ocean.
43:22
And the beauty of having a very free childhood is that there was no sense of
43:28
urgency or a schedule, but everything in terms of time, I was just able to spend
43:32
hours and hours in the sand and hours you know, looking at starfish and the
43:38
little sand crabs that I would Pick up and let them run through my fingers and the
43:42
Pacific Ocean here is a little bit colder.
43:45
But to me, and with the, the hot summers that we have in Southern
43:48
California, Southern California really has a desert landscape.
43:51
It's very much like Mexico.
43:54
So many introduced species for the landscaping, but as you described, the
43:59
oaks are truly the signature of the oaks and the sycamore trees, which have
44:02
these beautiful kind of white marbled.
44:06
Trunks and these very wide 5 pointed leaves.
44:10
And so I remember as a child really being activated and fixated by the
44:17
earth by the fennel, which would grow wild by the trunks of the trees and
44:21
the bark of the oaks and the sycamores.
44:24
And then there was there is, there's a lot of sandstone here.
44:28
And as you mentioned, kind of steep hills and cliffs, and there's a
44:31
lot of fossils in there as well as quartz and things like that.
44:34
And I went to somewhat of an alternative kindergarten here in,
44:38
in, in LA, and we would cross this little creek and it's really a desert.
44:42
So it's hardly much, much water down here.
44:44
So a little bit of a stream of water was just it was like Eden.
44:49
And it was something that anybody else would look at and not even take a
44:52
second glance, but for a little child growing up in the desert, this little
44:57
stream of water was just so magical.
45:00
And I would cross this little stream and I would go to the side and I would
45:03
actually play with the quartz crystals and things like this, and really having
45:07
the time to just be absorbed deeply.
45:10
I just feel like.
45:11
The, the wind, we're famous for the Santa Ana winds.
45:15
My name Kansas actually means child of the south wind.
45:17
So there's something about the wind in my in my blueprint.
45:21
It, it, for me, it's invigorating.
45:23
It feels the ones that come from the warm south.
45:27
It's a very feminine wind.
45:29
And then you hear the, the wind moving through the trees and.
45:33
It was, it was as though nature was still really breathing very deeply through
45:38
all of my cells even though I went to regular public school, I trusted nature
45:44
and trusted horses and had a very deep relationship with them, even before I
45:49
trusted humans, I would say, and now when I come back to California, because it's,
45:53
it It is so deeply encoded in myself.
45:57
I, I still pay homage to these sandstone.
46:00
There's these huge rock formations, you know, like Eagle Rock is one of them.
46:03
There's Chumash painted cave, cave.
46:06
The Chumash people were actually a matriarchal society because
46:09
the life here was so abundant.
46:11
There was enough food.
46:13
There was enough you know, both from the seafood that, That came from the ocean.
46:17
It was a a temperate climate.
46:18
So there wasn't the same type of warring society that we're familiar with
46:22
the association with Plains Indians, the matriarchal society out here in
46:26
the Chumash was very, very balanced.
46:28
And it was through working with them that I also was able to learn more of
46:32
the storytelling out in a place called Point Conception, which is the far.
46:37
Farthest western point of California.
46:40
And I had spent some time out there and then learned that that was the
46:43
place that where they believe the souls would leave Turtle Island,
46:47
that that was the jumping off point.
46:50
And so, you know, my husband is a geologist and he'll always
46:54
tell me the science behind stone.
46:56
And to me, it kind of demystifies thing.
46:59
It's like you, when you said that you didn't want to watch
47:02
Cavalia again, because it might take away that initial imprint.
47:06
And for me as well, I prefer the creation stories.
47:09
And when I was in the Lakota Nation, I learned some of the star stories
47:12
about, you know, the Pleiades, seven sisters, one Six sisters, one whose
47:17
back was turned, and it was only years later that it was realized that they've
47:22
known these stories for centuries, but with modern instrumentation, we
47:26
can see that there is a dark star there in the Pleiades constellation.
47:29
So all of that, to me, you know, the preservation of our creation stories,
47:34
and as you travel around and read them all, you see the similarities
47:39
that to me is what it is to be human.
47:43
Rupert Isaacson: We're about to go into Cavalia, but there
47:46
you are with the Chumash.
47:48
And they're introducing you to bird medicine in details.
47:54
Can you give us a moment, a story an experience of being shown that medicine?
48:05
Can you share something with us?
48:11
Kansas Carradine: Yeah, I mean, what's coming to mind is my personal struggle
48:15
at that time is I really felt like I wanted to contribute more and I didn't
48:19
know how, and I just wanted to contribute and be a servant to Mother Earth.
48:26
And my life seems so superficial and meaningless at the time.
48:30
So those present knew that that was part of my heart's inquiry.
48:36
And in just sitting and sharing I think there was tobacco, but there
48:42
was nothing else in terms of, you know, plant medicine being offered.
48:46
We would, I was taught how to properly harvest sage with respect
48:50
to not hurting the plant and.
48:52
To pick very quickly and make sure that we do it at the right time
48:56
of day and having that respect and honoring for the plant kingdom.
49:00
And as we sat down and we would burn sage and sitting in a very simple
49:04
kind of, you know, shed with a lot of.
49:07
Wings of birds around and talons of different birds.
49:10
And I was taught how to groom the feathers.
49:14
So I was given an eagle feather and the care that you bring all of the part
49:19
of the plumage back into alignment, even now, anytime I find a feather,
49:23
I'll always spend time, you know, grooming it because the feather itself
49:27
is an instrument for medicine to be able to clear the etheric field.
49:32
And in this inquiry that I had, we had stayed up most of the night,
49:36
and then I was taken outside and shown, here is your answer.
49:42
My answer was really, how can I be of service?
49:44
And the sky had exploded, and this is just behind Ojai, but the sky had exploded
49:51
into a sunrise that was so deep and pink and orange that it was, in my opinion,
49:59
the pointing of, The, you are always on the path, you can never be off the path,
50:07
and to just surrender this idea of a particular right way of being of service,
50:14
just to continue to show up and allow yourself to be open and flow with that.
50:18
That's the language that I'm giving it to it now.
50:22
But so much of our teachings and so much of that is experiential.
50:24
It's really beyond language.
50:27
And then very soon after is when I had the audition to go to Cavalia and even
50:33
though it seemed like I was chasing after a dangling carrot, there was
50:37
something about being a part of that company, that cast that really felt
50:42
like it was on point and in alignment with a service oriented mission.
50:47
And although it was hard to let go of my.
50:50
Connection to land and the, some of the alliances and relationships that I had
50:55
made, I ended up dropping everything and never looking back and just putting
51:00
myself fully into that next transition.
51:03
It was like, everything was being prepared to step me into
51:06
that next transition that was.
51:08
definitely more public and it was more, there was more rigor involved
51:12
because I had a schedule and we had to show up six days a week and completely
51:17
give over your entire life to that.
51:19
Whereas before I was, I was very I was very, very free for those
51:23
few years right before I became.
51:26
Contractually involved.
51:27
Rupert Isaacson: How did the, how did the audition happen for
51:30
Kansas Carradine: Cavalia?
51:32
I was contacted by my colleague from Riata Ranch, and she said that she didn't have
51:39
anybody else who was of age, and I was already over 18, so I could audition.
51:43
Was I interested?
51:44
And Because the Riata Ranch is famous for having truck riders, right?
51:48
When Fred and Magalie were in town, one of the first riders that
51:51
they had had actually got injured.
51:52
She broke her leg.
51:53
They needed another girl.
51:55
So they started asking around and if, you know, if you ask anybody in California
51:58
where to find a truck rider, everybody's going to point you to Riata Ranch.
52:02
And so I actually went up to Berkeley if you spent time in the Bay Area.
52:06
The set was the Cavalia tent was set up there.
52:10
I got, we brought a saddle.
52:12
I was introduced to a horse.
52:15
I did a back bend, which is for those who don't know, it's a full bridge on a
52:21
horse running at full speed that I didn't know, which was nothing to me at the time.
52:25
And I look back and I think that's kind of funny.
52:28
And then some Cossack drags where you hang upside down and some
52:30
vaults and things like this.
52:32
And I met Fred and Magalie Delgado, Fred Pignon and Magalie Delgado, and we Joked
52:38
a bit because I had spent that time in Avignon as well for Cheval Passion that
52:42
we thought, oh, we had seen each other.
52:43
We'd been performing in the same show.
52:46
But then I went home and I didn't hear anything for a long time.
52:48
And it was the longest two weeks of my life because I was still soul
52:51
searching and still seeking meaning.
52:54
And then when I got the call to join, it was it just started this waterfall
52:59
effect of momentum that everything snowballed and my life took a trajectory
53:05
that, that everything else has been really governed by since then.
53:09
Rupert Isaacson: Well, okay.
53:10
So for those, for those, again, for those listeners who don't
53:13
know what Cavalia is, was.
53:16
And, but who have seen perhaps equestrian spectacles, equestrian spectaculars.
53:23
I live in Germany.
53:23
We have one that travels every year called it's now called Cavaluna.
53:27
It used to be called Apache.
53:28
It's fantastic.
53:29
I know, I know the people who.
53:32
put together some of the classical teams.
53:34
It's wonderful.
53:36
I hate to say it.
53:37
It's not quite as wonderful as that first Cavalia show.
53:42
There was some magic there.
53:44
I want to ask you about that, that you said that there was
53:46
an element of ceremony to it.
53:48
You said that also that you felt there was an element of service.
53:52
That wasn't, I have to say, apparent to me.
53:54
When I saw the show, I just saw something that was Art in its purest
53:59
form, so it was, that was very moving.
54:05
So was the element of service just the bringing of joy,
54:11
which that show definitely got?
54:13
Or was there, are you, was there some other element of service
54:16
Kansas Carradine: there?
54:17
My way of defining service is also that when we are willing to give
54:24
that much of ourselves for other.
54:27
So that's bringing joy without a doubt.
54:30
But also when we look at the horses, you know, some later on in life, when I met
54:34
Ariana and you and I both met in that kind of equine, therapeutic context,
54:39
I questioned bringing horses into any stall environment or any structured
54:44
environment and then through my own self inquiry and meditations and whatnot,
54:49
I realized that they are performing a tremendous act of service in allowing
54:54
themselves to be in that ceremony.
54:57
Going into urban environments and giving those people from cities, just a
55:02
little bit of a picture of what it was like, or what it can be like, again,
55:07
at the highest octave of experience of right relationship between horse
55:11
and man or interspecies relationship.
55:13
So there could be an idea of, like, I don't want to be involved
55:16
in this because X, Y, Z, so you really have to be willing to.
55:22
Surrender.
55:22
Okay.
55:23
I'm going to give my entire life because there's nothing else when you show up at
55:30
eight in the morning and you finish near to midnight every night, six days a week.
55:35
And you're definitely not there for the money and you're not there for even the
55:38
glamour because it's really part of a company, which is different than it's
55:42
like when you go to a Cirque du Soleil show, can you name anybody who was in it?
55:45
Hmm.
55:47
It's a different experience.
55:48
You're there for the sake of the whole and it was wonderful to be around
55:52
you know, Fred and I felt so blessed obviously to be in that environment.
55:57
So I, I know that I was getting a lot out of it, but when I look back
56:01
on it, you know, I, I always was trying to make sure that I could
56:06
find ways that it was of service.
56:07
So the other piece that came in.
56:10
Okay.
56:11
And I'm a bit, I was a bit naughty, like you talked about me being naughty
56:14
earlier on I was giving away tickets oftentimes to my friends, like my Lakota
56:21
friends, and to anybody who works with different nonprofits and things like
56:25
that, because we often had empty seats, and they, our ticket sales would be low.
56:30
And so I was always trying to find ways to share that joy with others
56:34
who wouldn't be able to pay for it because it was an exclusive event.
56:38
It's very much assigned with elitism, as is the entire equestrian world.
56:43
And so, part of my little way of contributing was making sure
56:47
that, you know, Choi and some of the Shumash friends were able to
56:51
come as well as Lakota friends.
56:52
And then around the world, because I was with that company for so long.
56:56
There was a lot of nonprofits that I was able to, to get into see that.
57:00
And basically these are people who have given their whole life to a humanitarian
57:05
causes and they don't have enough money to buy four tickets to bring
57:09
their, their kids to come and see that.
57:11
And so this was a way that I was just an instrument to help
57:15
facilitate such an experience.
57:17
Rupert Isaacson: I think that was I've only met Frederic Pinal and
57:22
Magali Delgado a couple of times.
57:24
I'm hoping to have them on the show actually, because
57:26
I met them at Ana last year.
57:29
And I've gotta give them a ring and hope to get them on.
57:31
And what I, what I think I recognize immediately, I, I also met them
57:35
backstage at that show that I described, and I was immediately struck.
57:40
Obviously one was struck by them on stage.
57:42
What was so interesting is you, you're prepared for people to be
57:47
assholes, you know, and I also like you grew up all through university.
57:52
I financed myself by riding on film sets.
57:55
So I did that, you know, the endless waiting around, but for great money,
57:59
you know, and Then you do something for five seconds on a horse and then you
58:03
know, you can sort of pay off your rent.
58:05
It's wonderful but you know, you you you are as a you're basically an extra and
58:09
so you're your lowest of the low on that very hierarchical food chain that you
58:14
have in the movie industries It's it's for those people who haven't experienced it.
58:17
It is, you know, people aren't very nice to each other Basically, there's
58:22
the you know, the power structures are fairly military really but I And of
58:28
course, you know, with the horse world and the arrogance and snobbery that
58:31
goes with it and I'm sorry, but I spent a lot of time in France and the French
58:35
can be awful with this particularly the ones who ride really, really well.
58:39
And as can the Germans, as can the Brits, as can the Americans, as can all of us.
58:42
Right.
58:42
And I think all of us who've.
58:44
Achieved a certain level of equestrian mastery in one field or another have
58:52
gone through an asshole phase and I think those of us that don't admit it are lying.
58:56
Because it's a painful memory and I think something has to bring it because
59:00
the problem with horses, I think, is they give you power when you're on a
59:03
horse or with a horse, you are bigger, faster, stronger, more beautiful.
59:07
All of these things, and you can easily forget that this
59:10
power is just being lent to you.
59:11
And that you're really just, you're just a monkey, you know, and as soon as you're
59:14
off that horse, you go back to monkeydom.
59:16
But you know, and all the mythology around horses is obviously about
59:20
freedom, dream, empowerment, and so on.
59:25
And so it's, we know what power does to humans, and it's impossible not to
59:29
get seduced by that to some degree.
59:31
But what brings you out on the other side of it?
59:32
And I think.
59:37
and Magali was that they had somehow managed to achieve this mastery
59:42
without turning into arseholes.
59:45
And that when you, when you met them they just engaged with you in this very, very
59:50
sweet and authentic and rather humble way.
59:52
And I remember thinking, how did you get There at that stage of my
59:57
life, because I think at that stage of my life, I wasn't quite there.
1:00:00
I was right at the beginning of my adventure with autism, just coming out
1:00:03
of my adventure with human rights, my first adventure with human rights, and I
1:00:06
was still struggling with these things.
1:00:07
So it, it, what do you think was the special quality that those two brought?
1:00:13
Well, where does it come from?
1:00:15
Do you think it's just innate in them?
1:00:16
Or have they did that?
1:00:17
Is there some experience that they went through that I don't know about?
1:00:19
Or, you know, because you must have gone for the audition and gone, Oh my gosh,
1:00:24
these people are like, unlike anyone else.
1:00:26
Who seems to be out there at that end of the equestrian world.
1:00:29
What's going on with this?
1:00:31
What do you think it was?
1:00:33
Kansas Carradine: Certainly, I mean, I think the whole feel and the vibe
1:00:35
of it was just so much more like I said, compassionate in general.
1:00:39
And back then, Fred was very much ahead of his, you know, I can't really pinpoint it.
1:00:44
I don't know enough about Fred's background.
1:00:46
I know that his exploration, you'll find it.
1:00:49
If you have them as a guest on the show, but I know more about his
1:00:52
exploration into Liberty was truly living amongst and observing how the
1:00:57
horses interacted with each other.
1:00:58
And so when he is on stage, even though he's the trainer, he's really
1:01:02
another stallion with his stallions, and he just embodies that in his play.
1:01:08
And the vibe that we had around the company is everybody truly
1:01:13
felt privileged to be there.
1:01:15
Everybody was so specialized in their own section sector of mastery.
1:01:22
There was definitely a huge amount of ego and insecurities that would
1:01:25
come up because everybody wants to retain their, their, their position
1:01:31
and at the same time, nobody was there to compete with Fred.
1:01:34
Nobody was there to compete with Magalie.
1:01:36
Nobody was there to compete with those people who were, you know,
1:01:39
at the high level of their.
1:01:41
Acrobatics or their Roman writing or their bareback writing because they had hired
1:01:45
all specialists in their own mastery.
1:01:47
There wasn't a lot of.
1:01:51
Competition in the normal sense, because we all did something so different
1:01:55
and it arose a little bit in certain group ensembles and numbers like that.
1:02:00
But ultimately, we were all respected because we were, we had been in
1:02:03
the industry and in the performance world for a really long time.
1:02:05
And so Fred and Magalie gave that respect.
1:02:08
And of course, we had it in.
1:02:09
10 fold for them, and they respected the horses in such a way.
1:02:13
And I think that that created, they respected the stable hands and
1:02:17
who the grooms were going to be.
1:02:18
They really took consideration to make sure that the people that they hired to be
1:02:21
around the horses were also of a certain.
1:02:25
We could say compassionate nature.
1:02:26
They had a certain character about them.
1:02:27
That was desirable.
1:02:29
And so when there's that much attention to detail to really create
1:02:32
the entire staff and environment, it really makes a difference.
1:02:36
And it's true.
1:02:37
That particular 1st show was quite unique in that sense.
1:02:40
You know, there was a lot of other that ideals were still, I would say, at the
1:02:44
top of future creative collaborative efforts, but the same attention to detail
1:02:49
was lacking when that captain of the ship mastery was, was no longer there.
1:02:55
And it made sense.
1:02:56
I mean, they spent a good seven years on tour and then wanted to go back to France.
1:03:00
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
1:03:01
So how long did you spend with CarVal in the end?
1:03:05
Kansas Carradine: I mean, it, I started in 2004 and I was in China
1:03:09
in 2020 putting a show together that was supposed to open there.
1:03:11
So I was with the company off and on for many years in many different incarnations,
1:03:15
whether as I was hired originally as an artist and then I had a contract
1:03:18
buying and training the truck riding and Roman riding horses for the show.
1:03:22
And then I would.
1:03:24
Come in and out kind of as a backup.
1:03:25
So somebody got injured and then they call me in and I would be a replacement.
1:03:30
And then I would help adopt horses.
1:03:32
I was involved with shipping horses overseas from a California
1:03:37
operation, but by and large, the, the, the, it spanned 15 years.
1:03:44
And then my husband is a creator with the show.
1:03:46
So when I was, for example, on extended maternity leaves and taking
1:03:50
care of children and homeschooling, and that was where I put all of my
1:03:53
energy, I was still there on the tour.
1:03:56
And my husband was there six days a week curating the artistic vision, basically.
1:04:02
So we were very intrinsically connected.
1:04:05
And
1:04:05
Rupert Isaacson: your kids, I presume, grew up with that as a background.
1:04:09
Kansas Carradine: They did.
1:04:09
And the first time that I left tour was because they weren't learning how to ride.
1:04:15
And I was like, my kids don't know how to ride and here I am on this horse show.
1:04:18
And to be, you know, the horses, they put so much effort.
1:04:21
They didn't need to pack around kids all the time.
1:04:23
I didn't want to ask that of them.
1:04:25
And we had a lot of hot horses that were too much for, you know, a three
1:04:29
year old, a five year old to get on.
1:04:30
So I, that.
1:04:32
Helped steer me to a different incarnation.
1:04:36
Rupert Isaacson: Do you feel that the, because I never saw Cavalli again after
1:04:39
that do you feel that that same sense of compassion and service remained?
1:04:45
Or do you think it was at a high point at that?
1:04:47
Particular watershed that I saw what, what described that's a 15 year trajectory.
1:04:53
It's a long time to keep something like that going in a certain way
1:04:56
because lots of personalities coming in and out, you know, different
1:05:00
incarnations, different human.
1:05:01
So, so just, yeah.
1:05:05
Kansas Carradine: I think it was definitely at a high point.
1:05:07
It was just a magical moment in history also.
1:05:10
And then there was the attempt to try and recreate it, but bigger
1:05:17
and bigger is not always better.
1:05:20
It still had the ideals.
1:05:22
And I think everybody who was able to be a part of that vision felt truly honored.
1:05:28
Because we had high principles and it's a human effort to navigate toward a, a
1:05:36
North star, or just like when you put in your course and chart a course at sea,
1:05:40
it's not in a straight line, but you're guiding toward that, that intention toward
1:05:46
that goal toward that higher vision.
1:05:48
And so we all did our best.
1:05:52
In the face of adversity, but there was magic in the very beginning, and
1:05:57
Fred and Magalie were a part of it.
1:05:58
They were they are wonderful individuals.
1:06:02
Rupert Isaacson: Right, and there must have been a certain amount of
1:06:04
that magic keeping going where you wouldn't have stayed with it, I presume.
1:06:07
Or your husband.
1:06:09
Who I'd also like to have on the show, because he's a very interesting chap.
1:06:12
If he's, if he's, if he's willing.
1:06:13
So, okay.
1:06:17
I want to move ahead a little bit now to another chapter in your life.
1:06:21
So you then begin to work more in the equine assisted field.
1:06:25
And this is right about the time that you and I cross paths.
1:06:29
You run into someone called Arianna Strozzi.
1:06:31
Strozzi, I don't know how she pronounces her Italian American.
1:06:35
Kansas Carradine: She's now, yeah, she's now Mizuchi.
1:06:37
Okay.
1:06:38
Or Mizuki, yeah.
1:06:39
So Arizana Mizuki.
1:06:40
Rupert Isaacson: Mizuki.
1:06:41
I want you to tell us about that.
1:06:43
And then from there into heart math.
1:06:45
Heart math is something that I feel everyone should know about in
1:06:48
horseboy method, for example, when we are doing what we call sensory
1:06:52
work, which just came from the way my son used to lay on the horses.
1:06:55
And it was clear that his really agitated behaviors would just go
1:07:00
when he did that, when he was body to body on the horse like that.
1:07:03
And then much, much later after we'd done it with a bazillion other people and
1:07:07
seen the same result, we talk to people at heart math and realize, Oh, I see.
1:07:11
That was what was going on with the residents of fields.
1:07:15
But I don't want to, I think you should talk about this because, you
1:07:18
know, a lot more about it than I do.
1:07:21
So There's something you talked about service, and I
1:07:24
read a little question here.
1:07:26
Is self actualization possible without service?
1:07:32
And I think that it sounds like you might have Reached again, another
1:07:38
watershed moment where your life then, perhaps through your own children,
1:07:43
I don't know, gets taken in this way towards a much more obviously
1:07:48
service oriented, um, with autism.
1:07:52
Talk to
1:07:52
Kansas Carradine: us about that.
1:07:54
Sure, the conversation about service is one way to describe it.
1:07:57
And then the other act is, I would say selflessness.
1:08:00
And so when I had children, this for the first time really reoriented my
1:08:05
entire world externally to these other beings, as opposed to internally and
1:08:11
just focusing on myself, my own needs.
1:08:13
So for the first time, what parenting brought me is the opportunity
1:08:17
to know what it was like to at moments really be truly selfless.
1:08:21
Because it's very rare to find in society of it, I would say.
1:08:25
And these moments where you really forget your sense of self.
1:08:30
So there's two aspects of it.
1:08:31
It's one is not being selfish or the absence of conceit, we could
1:08:35
say, but there's also a sense where your beingness or your your limited
1:08:41
perception of personality dissolve and you're just thinking of being involved.
1:08:47
In an act and an action that's caring for, for other, and
1:08:51
it can be caring for horses.
1:08:52
It can be caring for land.
1:08:54
It can be caring for just the energetic resonance of the planet, which is
1:08:58
what we do a lot in heart math.
1:09:00
But really, that to me is a flow exchanging going outward.
1:09:05
And.
1:09:07
I, I, I find that in my personal human journey, there has been one layer
1:09:13
of it or one avenue that has become more established or perhaps like I'm
1:09:18
looking at it as like the limbs of a tree and one branch comes off and
1:09:23
then it becomes really strong and that bow can support a lot more fruit.
1:09:27
And then there's another branch that also becomes strong and then that bow can also
1:09:31
in turn support fruit that nourishes.
1:09:34
And so there's these different branches of selflessness or branches of service
1:09:39
that I never thought that I would be able to, that have continued.
1:09:42
It's like, I'm now doing performances sometimes, but they're always for
1:09:48
nonprofits to really generate interest, to raise funds and do fundraising
1:09:51
for other charity organizations.
1:09:55
And when I was able to shift this very strongly established
1:10:00
pattern of wanting to receive something from doing a performance.
1:10:03
Like I want to meet my metric of excellence.
1:10:06
Then I would shift that into how can I give, how can I, I want people to
1:10:10
feel joy and to feel enthusiasm or feel youthfulness or feel inspiration
1:10:16
from watching this as opposed to I want to tick my boxes so that I
1:10:19
get appreciation and validation.
1:10:22
So when that.
1:10:23
Could shift and that took a long time again, being a child performer.
1:10:26
I wasn't hip to that in my twenties.
1:10:29
I wasn't trying to transform it then.
1:10:31
I didn't understand it the same way that now it's really conscious effort
1:10:35
so that even before weeks, months before I start to do a show, I'm
1:10:39
already starting to make sure that the, the outflow of energy is really
1:10:44
caring for whatever audience that is.
1:10:46
It's going to show up.
1:10:48
And then.
1:10:49
My work in the nonprofit sector, actually, it's an interesting
1:10:53
segue came from my association with HeartMath, which I learned Thank you.
1:10:58
About over 20 years ago, before I joined Cavalia in my spiritual
1:11:01
seeking, I was actually at a spiritual teachers gathering her satsangs.
1:11:06
Her name is Gangaji, and she was a disciple of an Indian mystic
1:11:12
known as Papaji, who was a direct disciple of Ramana Maharshi.
1:11:16
And so that's that.
1:11:17
that lineage.
1:11:18
And that's that meeting, that fated meeting of self inquiry,
1:11:21
which I'll never forget is where I first learned about HeartMath.
1:11:25
And it was just kind of being in the vortex of transformation.
1:11:29
You know, this is when I was still doing this work with the Shumash
1:11:32
and right before I joined Cavalia.
1:11:34
Go ahead.
1:11:35
Rupert Isaacson: I've just got a question.
1:11:36
A lot of people, listeners will not know what HeartMath is.
1:11:39
Please tell us what is HeartMath?
1:11:43
Kansas Carradine: So, let's see.
1:11:45
HeartMath itself is the name of a, of an organization that has done a huge
1:11:50
amount of research and the, the crux of it really started to prove that
1:11:55
our emotions affect our physiology.
1:11:58
So, it began to study the Heart rate variability, which is really the beat
1:12:04
to beat changes that are emitted from our heart, which is an electrical organ.
1:12:08
And those subtle fluctuations, depending on whether we're experiencing
1:12:12
a renewing emotion, such as appreciation, care, or compassion.
1:12:17
And then what that looks like when we're experiencing a depleting emotion
1:12:21
or a feeling that is discordant, such as frustration or anger.
1:12:26
And through the research, the Institute of HeartMath has been able to really
1:12:32
prove, and we can see now with spectral analysis, when we are in a flow state,
1:12:38
when we are in a state of love and feeling good, really in the zone, that actually
1:12:44
creates an organization of our physiology.
1:12:47
And the term that's been used now is called coherence.
1:12:50
So when we have that.
1:12:51
That coherence, that aligned state.
1:12:54
It's when we have optimal functioning.
1:12:56
It's when there is an organization.
1:12:59
I, I equate it to a 72 piece orchestra.
1:13:03
It's the conductor that really maintains the harmony and can modulate with those
1:13:08
Allegro moments where you increase your speed or your timing or your rhythm, as
1:13:13
well as those moments that are appropriate and dynamic to be able to come into.
1:13:19
Quiet state.
1:13:20
So this is a symbolism for really a healthy nervous system that
1:13:25
can both increase and be alert and respond to the needs at hand
1:13:29
and then be able to downregulate.
1:13:31
And when there's no threat, no perceived threat, and when things are calm, your
1:13:35
nervous system can go into a state of rest and digest or really that expanded
1:13:40
state of, of, of awareness itself.
1:13:44
So, the research that has come out of the Institute of HeartMath has been often
1:13:48
referenced by equine therapy programs, as well as other, we could say kind of
1:13:54
quantum healing modalities throughout the world, because it's starting to prove.
1:13:58
What intuitively we already knew is that there's an energetic, there's a quantum
1:14:02
field that we're all connected to.
1:14:03
We're all broadcasting and we're all receiving at the same time.
1:14:07
So then when we can start to turn the dial manually and really have a manual
1:14:12
transmission on our own nervous system, we can start to decide how we are showing
1:14:17
up in the world, really how we are, what we want to resonate, what frequency
1:14:21
we really want to be aligned with.
1:14:23
And that's through the discovery of the last.
1:14:25
Two decades what I've been more focused on and now I see it as the foundational
1:14:31
practice and horsemanship because once we can attune ourselves, then we can.
1:14:35
Really clear out any of the debris that might be in the way of communication.
1:14:41
And so to have that clear dialogue is what helps eliminate confusion.
1:14:46
And then we, we have those experiences of harmony, both with our human
1:14:50
to human relationships, as well as our human to animal relationships.
1:14:54
And the inquiry You know, heart math was very much a part of my life,
1:14:59
already had been for five years before I started going into the equine therapy.
1:15:04
So when I looked at the horse as healer modalities, because it
1:15:09
is another shamanic experience.
1:15:11
I saw the, how heart math was so complimentary, but I didn't really
1:15:15
know how to merge at the time.
1:15:17
I didn't really know how to give it language.
1:15:19
And I realized now that it's kind of been one of the ways to really prove
1:15:24
with science, what's going on when we get in the energetic field with
1:15:28
the heart, excuse me, with the horse.
1:15:30
So your heart and my heart are both producing a field that's measurable
1:15:33
at least three to five feet.
1:15:35
Secretariat's heart was.
1:15:37
21 pounds, so the field that is created and generated by
1:15:41
the horses is so much greater.
1:15:44
And when we step into that, we can have what's called an entrainment.
1:15:48
And there's that co regulation and that synchronization together
1:15:53
and that's the beauty of.
1:15:56
Being able to know now why we had so intimately been connected
1:16:01
with horse medicine is really what it is, why it's working.
1:16:05
And I don't really care why, but it is kind of fun to be
1:16:08
able to give language to it now.
1:16:09
I would trust it anyway.
1:16:11
But
1:16:13
Rupert Isaacson: it's good to be able to explain it.
1:16:16
Because, yeah, when one's working with programs and I go through,
1:16:19
you know, before we started working with neuroscientists and who started
1:16:23
looking at what we were doing with horseboy method and movement method
1:16:26
you know, we were always getting those questions are basically people
1:16:28
coming along and say, well, tell me why this doesn't suck then you write.
1:16:31
Well, you know, it's really good for you.
1:16:33
But then as soon as the neuroscientists started back, I said, like, well, you
1:16:36
know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
1:16:38
And that sort of ended that one.
1:16:40
Nicely that why doesn't it suck conversation?
1:16:42
You could get onto more interesting conversations So I think that's you
1:16:45
know, one of the great benefits of heart math just for again for listeners
1:16:48
heart math is not an equestrian thing But a lot of equestrian people end up
1:16:54
attracted to it because when you're talking about the electromagnetic
1:16:58
fields of arts, we all know that we feel really good around those great
1:17:02
big hearts that are pumping in horses.
1:17:04
Why wouldn't we?
1:17:06
But it's, it goes further than that towards other electromagnetic.
1:17:09
Resonances like trees, like other people, like just about
1:17:15
everything else on the planet, that's putting out energy, which is
1:17:18
Kansas Carradine: everything.
1:17:18
Exactly.
1:17:20
The outreach of the institute has gone to encompass all of that
1:17:23
as well, because in the study.
1:17:27
When we look at coherence and how we affect each other there's a lot
1:17:31
of, there's another, our branch of the Institute of HeartMath called
1:17:34
the Global Coherence Initiative.
1:17:36
And now it's really studying our impact as a collective, as well as
1:17:42
the impact of trees and on nature and what meditators can do in different
1:17:47
clusters when we're sending care to a specific situation and how that is
1:17:51
reflected in the Earth's harmonics.
1:17:55
There's just not enough I would say data or instrumentation yet.
1:17:59
We're just starting to gather all of it to really show and prove,
1:18:02
yes, your energy makes a difference.
1:18:05
And yes, the collective energy can also have an, have a huge impact.
1:18:09
And so this is a really empowering aspect because I think a lot of
1:18:12
people, and I certainly have felt this many times, we feel helpless.
1:18:16
Whether it's in the environmental care or whether it's working with
1:18:19
humanitation issues time and time again, and part of this is like.
1:18:24
The really gathering of stories that your impact your heart, your coherent
1:18:29
resonance is an act of service.
1:18:33
So able to maintain coherence is an act of service.
1:18:36
Go ahead.
1:18:37
So
1:18:37
Rupert Isaacson: people are interested.
1:18:38
Presumably then you're saying heart math is a place that you can go,
1:18:42
whether physically or probably online these days and get trained.
1:18:48
What did they train you in?
1:18:50
What do they train people in?
1:18:52
Do you come out of it with a hot math level one practitioner,
1:18:56
level five practitioner?
1:18:57
What, what, what does it look like?
1:19:00
What did you do?
1:19:02
What do people generally do?
1:19:03
And then how did that take you into the equine assisted sort of horses medicine,
1:19:06
equestrian therapy, equine therapy?
1:19:09
Kansas Carradine: Whoa.
1:19:11
So there's a couple of different questions in there.
1:19:13
I'll answer the latter first.
1:19:15
So what drew me is synchronicities as with everything.
1:19:18
There's breadcrumbs in life.
1:19:19
And a dear friend of mine had said, you should check out this person
1:19:23
who's doing equine therapy work.
1:19:24
You might find it interesting.
1:19:26
And little did I know that Arianna Strozzi would become like family.
1:19:29
There was just a soul family connection there.
1:19:32
As I mentioned earlier, I moved in and did the apprenticeship for, for some time now.
1:19:37
I had already been working with heart math and learning about it as my own
1:19:41
personal tool for self development and to deal with depression and anxiety.
1:19:47
So, as a younger person, I had more symptoms of depression.
1:19:50
So
1:19:51
Rupert Isaacson: you moved in you moved in with Arianna Strozzi You felt her as you
1:19:55
you started an apprenticeship with her.
1:19:56
What apprenticeship did you start?
1:19:59
Kansas Carradine: I did so really studying always being drawn to the horse
1:20:04
medicine and because I had already been introduced to Native American wisdom
1:20:09
and understanding there's plant medicine and there's The rock people and there's
1:20:13
the medicine from each and every animal and from the feathers themselves.
1:20:18
So this exploration, this deep dive, we could say into the equine therapy
1:20:25
world for me was really assigning meaning to that, which I had already.
1:20:30
Dedicated so much of my life to, I wanted to find what really is in
1:20:34
the relationship with the equine.
1:20:36
And I went through, you know, a deep soul inquiry of, can we ever ride horses again?
1:20:41
Is that truly right relationship?
1:20:43
Should they be installed at all?
1:20:44
I had a very difficult.
1:20:47
Judgment about that for some time and then the way that I rectified it.
1:20:51
Rupert Isaacson: What, what, what, what, at what point did that happen?
1:20:54
Because was it just having horses in stores for seven years
1:20:58
going around doing the show?
1:21:00
Because the horses seemed in Cavale to be actually full of well being.
1:21:05
So, what, what, what is it, what, what?
1:21:08
Kansas Carradine: So because I had been exposed to horses almost always
1:21:11
being in a work environment or being in a stable environment, I had not
1:21:15
been around them as much when they were free and able to live in a herd
1:21:20
and specifically as a family herd.
1:21:22
And that's something that Ariana showed me.
1:21:23
And once I saw it, I was, it was so compelling.
1:21:27
It was so powerful to see these natural family herds and to see them all living
1:21:31
on very steep terrain, which we would.
1:21:34
Be worried and be an overcare of our short horses, you know, so that created such a.
1:21:40
A strong catalyst within me that I thought, Oh, that's, it
1:21:44
was like throwing out the baby with the bathwater at the time.
1:21:46
That's where my naivete was is saying, how could I put any horse in stalls?
1:21:51
Look at what they really belong to be free.
1:21:54
And, and at the same time, I had a vision to create a show that was.
1:21:59
Really extrovert and explicit about its ceremonial aspects where
1:22:06
the herd would be brought in.
1:22:08
It would be outside.
1:22:09
It would depict more of a Native American environment with with horses.
1:22:14
So, because I had that as my, as my apex of the experience of being with horses, I.
1:22:22
Had the pendulum swinging this this other way and then through inquiry and through
1:22:27
understanding and through really deep journaling and inquiry with the horses.
1:22:30
I saw their tremendous active devotion and service to be.
1:22:35
People will say, well, the horses don't have a choice.
1:22:38
And I believe that on a soul level, each soul is really being brought into,
1:22:43
relationship with each other, whether it's interspecies that they do certainly
1:22:48
come into that incarnation, that embodiment and they go into the cities
1:22:53
and they awaken the hearts of humanity.
1:22:56
It's really no, nothing less than that.
1:22:59
And so I would agree to learn more about.
1:23:03
Yeah, to learn more about the magic.
1:23:04
That's why I was drawn to the equine therapy work, but I was insecure at
1:23:07
the time and didn't feel like I knew enough or had enough life experience to
1:23:11
really carry and facilitate on my own and make that the forefront of my offer.
1:23:16
Ariana to me was such a shaman, you know, how can you just take a certification for
1:23:20
a couple of weeks and then think that you are going to have that same magic really.
1:23:25
So I never, I didn't.
1:23:28
Right away, start to make that my, my offer and I went back into the performance
1:23:32
world, which I knew how, and then I was still using HeartMath always as my own
1:23:38
really tool for therapy and understanding how to regulate my own emotional landscape
1:23:44
and I became certified in HeartMath for, to be a private coach back in 2011 and at
1:23:50
the time that was the way that you would offer it was really one on one and I also
1:23:57
didn't do anything with it at that time.
1:23:58
So even though my life externally seemed like I was, it was glamorous and I was
1:24:02
confident and I can hang and be brave upside down on horses, I was still.
1:24:06
Insecure and not confident to be what one might term as.
1:24:13
A spiritual guide or a coach for others.
1:24:15
It took me another 15 years really to get enough life experience and to have
1:24:21
other shifts taking PLA in place in my psyche that I could be rooted enough to
1:24:26
really be able to hold space for others.
1:24:29
And that was just part of like ma the making of wine or just
1:24:33
the, the curating of ripeness.
1:24:35
Yeah.
1:24:36
Maturation.
1:24:37
to change about the maturation.
1:24:39
Exactly.
1:24:40
And so now since COVID, I was again, really forced into a pivot and I became
1:24:47
a HeartMath certified trainer, which basically means that you can teach tools,
1:24:53
the techniques, and a lot of it has to start with a foundational practice that
1:24:57
is breathwork and really understanding that when we Actively set the intention
1:25:02
to co create with our heart and to breathe into the heart and chest area.
1:25:06
Then that right away begins to activate the neurons that exist within our hearts.
1:25:13
And there's a facilitation that begins to create again that
1:25:17
synchronization, that coherence.
1:25:19
And then there's other tools that build upon that.
1:25:22
And it's really focusing on how to start to perceive our own somatic Perceptions or
1:25:29
our somatic feelings as well as being able to consciously direct our frequency and
1:25:35
being aware of how what we are, how we are broadcasting, what we are broadcasting.
1:25:40
And then with that, with that awareness, we, we discuss about
1:25:44
how to make modulations or how to make attunements and shifts,
1:25:48
Rupert Isaacson: okay.
1:25:48
You talked about, you just said something there, you said neurons in your heart.
1:25:51
I think a lot of listeners may be aware, but perhaps some are not.
1:25:56
Just as a context for that your gut, your heart and your brain
1:26:00
are all composed of neurons.
1:26:02
It used to be thought that the neurons were just all the preserve of the brain.
1:26:07
It's not true at all.
1:26:08
And it's just, I just wanted to chuck that in there because if someone's listening
1:26:11
to something like this for the first time.
1:26:13
What?
1:26:14
Hold on.
1:26:14
Neurons in the heart?
1:26:15
Yes, indeed.
1:26:16
Heart, brain.
1:26:17
So you could argue it's all one brain or it's three brains or whatever, but
1:26:20
that's why gut feelings, that's why heart feelings, that's why These things are, you
1:26:24
know, as valid as the intellect, if not more so, and the intellect without them
1:26:29
is limited because it's not the full thing happening that the neurons can offer.
1:26:36
Again, also for people that I should have, I should have also
1:26:38
said Ariana Storzi, now Mizuki, it's that's the Sky Horse Academy, right?
1:26:44
Why, what, and I hope to, I'd love to get her on the show actually,
1:26:48
what, what is it about that because, because, you know, there's been a
1:26:53
ton of equine assisted offerings.
1:26:55
There still are.
1:26:56
It's a good thing.
1:26:57
You know, there ought to be, but what was it about that particular one?
1:27:00
Absolutely.
1:27:03
Kansas Carradine: I, these questions that you ask, ultimately, I go a
1:27:06
lot of intuition and synchronicity.
1:27:09
So, you know, it's being in the right place at the right time, doing the right
1:27:12
thing with the right people for the right reasons, a lot of rights and alignments.
1:27:17
And I didn't know until I got in there, it was just a feeling, right?
1:27:20
I wrote a letter to Ariana.
1:27:22
She invited me in as soon as we saw each other.
1:27:26
So I was.
1:27:27
As I mentioned a little bit earlier, a dear friend of mine, he was actually
1:27:32
interested in her partner's book, where he was teaching Aikido to
1:27:38
military and when he was looking at this person, Richard Strozzi Heckler.
1:27:44
He learned about Arianna and how she had a horse ranch with self development and
1:27:47
he said, Oh, you should check it out.
1:27:49
And so when I started to explore, and this is back in 2008, and I'd already
1:27:53
had my first daughter and I just left the Cavalia tour for the first time,
1:27:57
did have a break back in California after being all around the world.
1:28:01
And then I went out there and when we met, it was like, Oh, she, what
1:28:05
the way she describes it as, Oh, we'll be in the foxhole together.
1:28:09
You know, we have probably many births together and there was just,
1:28:15
it was family and it still is.
1:28:17
And we're very dear to each other.
1:28:19
And I ended up moving in with my family.
1:28:21
They're living on the ranch for several years and helping to co
1:28:24
facilitate the programs and really just spending time, you know, deep.
1:28:28
And I always say at the feet of the master.
1:28:30
And to answer your question, what makes equine guided education is that model.
1:28:34
There's so many different acronyms and Arianna was at the forefront of
1:28:38
a lot of the, the name building and all the certification programs that
1:28:43
were being developed at the time.
1:28:45
And she always said, I hope there's a day when there's an equine guided educator or
1:28:49
an equine assisted facilitator, whatever.
1:28:52
Acronyms you want to use on every corner, just like you can always
1:28:56
find a chiropractor and acupuncturist that it will really serve the needs
1:29:00
and I just feel really fortunate to have seen that arc as we were all
1:29:06
in the beginning of it together.
1:29:07
So the difference that I would say, or the uniqueness is Ariana,
1:29:11
it's not exclusive to horses.
1:29:13
It really is opening up to the entire natural world and observation.
1:29:18
You will have messages from the wind and from The rabbit that comes through
1:29:24
and the way that the sun passes, that's all part of the equine guided
1:29:28
experience, the integration of equine therapy, really understanding that
1:29:33
that's just the entry point into being in relationship with the whole natural world.
1:29:38
Right?
1:29:38
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
1:29:39
Yeah.
1:29:39
The horses bring us into nature for sure.
1:29:42
What are you doing with sky horse currently and heart math?
1:29:46
Where is this led you now?
1:29:48
As we speak.
1:29:49
You also mentioned that you do do some performances.
1:29:51
What kind of performances are you doing now?
1:29:53
And how's all that integrated?
1:29:55
Kansas Carradine: Sure, I still perform my lasso, which I can
1:29:59
bring my ropes anywhere, and, you know, there's actually a name in
1:30:03
the Divine Mothers where she who's holding the rope of love in her hand.
1:30:07
So the rope of love is the Divine Mother's way of really connecting all of us.
1:30:13
You know, it's really in spiral movements that the lasso moves around.
1:30:17
So I still perform lasso with my children and it'll, I can be hired.
1:30:21
Oftentimes I'm only giving it to charity organizations.
1:30:25
So as part of a fundraiser, that's kind of been the thing that's
1:30:28
happened over the last few years.
1:30:30
And then I haven't had horses because I travel so much and because I really
1:30:33
have devoted a lot of my life to the spiritual journey and means that.
1:30:40
I'm always riding for other people or riding with other people, and
1:30:44
it's a great opportunity because I ride so many different horses.
1:30:48
So I don't have my own trick riding horses that I perform on, but last summer
1:30:52
I made, I don't know, three or four Roman, Roman riding teams at different.
1:30:56
Barns and different stable stables and different causes, and really the
1:31:01
bulk of my work has now become the EGE philosophy that's been threaded
1:31:07
throughout everything that I do.
1:31:08
So that's equine guided education, working with skyhorse as a,
1:31:12
as a, an instructor basically.
1:31:14
And I do private coaching as well as group retreats with integrating the
1:31:18
HeartMath and horsemanship and the equine guided education philosophy.
1:31:24
What I find.
1:31:25
Lately is a lot of people who want to have a better connection with their
1:31:28
horses are carrying some sort of residual trauma or residual guilt or shame that
1:31:35
get it's an impediment to connection.
1:31:37
And so 1 of the 1st things we do is I will guide people into their
1:31:40
hearts and through some basic breath, working practices breath, work
1:31:45
practices that will help to open up.
1:31:48
A compassionate space.
1:31:49
And that compassionate frequency will allow for any sort of emotional
1:31:55
residual energy to be spun off or to be let go of, and just really create
1:32:00
that sacred container, that safe space.
1:32:02
And then the interactions with the, with their horses can really take a new form.
1:32:09
They can expand beyond, because there's not those old patterns or stories that
1:32:14
might be still holding back into the past.
1:32:17
And that really helps, whether it's working on groundwork, or wanting
1:32:22
to do something with liberty, or doing mounted exercises, either in
1:32:24
dressage, or in you know, reigning cowhorse, whatever the desire is.
1:32:30
It doesn't matter, but first rooting in what is the frequency that is desired.
1:32:36
And then the discipline or then the technique can be applied
1:32:39
after the attunement has happened in the vibrational realm.
1:32:43
Rupert Isaacson: So.
1:32:44
If somebody wants to, are you, for example, I'm looking at you over Zoom,
1:32:49
and I know you're in California currently, are you at Skyhorse Ranch now, where
1:32:52
are you, and if somebody wants to come and do these things with you, where do
1:32:56
they, you go into where they are, or they come to a place where you are, how
1:33:00
Kansas Carradine: does it work?
1:33:02
Yeah.
1:33:02
I go to, to where I'm invited.
1:33:04
So I still have been living this, you know, circus
1:33:08
cowgirl, gypsy life lifestyle.
1:33:10
And so I travel quite a bit.
1:33:11
I mean, I did, we haven't talked about that at all, but I did just come back
1:33:14
from the Patagonia where I spent the last month connecting with the gaucho horses.
1:33:19
And so that is, has been its own other amazing shamanic experience.
1:33:23
But I will be at Skyhorse this summer doing programs with Ariana.
1:33:27
There's a few clinics that'll be throughout California and then a base out
1:33:32
of Canada, but really wherever there's an invitation and honestly, it's, it's
1:33:39
much more of following the energy.
1:33:41
And that's also a principle of equine guided education that in Ariana's
1:33:44
apprenticeship, it was like, where is there energy and where's there's not.
1:33:48
And when there's a flow, and right now there's been a huge amount of energy,
1:33:51
just bringing me back to my homeland, back to California, where I've been
1:33:55
distanced from for quite some time.
1:33:58
So I've been coming back and connecting with the land here and really finding
1:34:02
myself in all kinds of wonderful little neighborhoods and stables and these.
1:34:07
pods, if you will, these circles of connection, circles of compassion,
1:34:11
and to continue to just facilitate so that we can let go of the judgment
1:34:15
that we have that gets in the way and be compassionate for our own journey.
1:34:20
You know, the horses are so infinitely compassionate.
1:34:23
We make mistakes.
1:34:24
We're going to be clumsy.
1:34:25
We're going to do things without proper timing.
1:34:28
And oftentimes just acknowledging that and allowing people to really
1:34:33
rest in that compassionate latitude, that's a huge healing in and of itself.
1:34:37
And so my greatest joy is to help facilitate those moments.
1:34:42
Rupert Isaacson: So, Patagonia and India.
1:34:45
Kansas Carradine: So
1:34:49
Rupert Isaacson: last year, you know, we all know, right, that we're
1:34:52
at war, unfortunately, I'm sitting here in Germany, we're at war,
1:34:56
and it's war is in Europe again.
1:34:58
And it really is.
1:35:00
I'm sitting, oh, just 200 meters from where there's, I don't know, quite
1:35:06
a bunch of Ukrainian families and, you know, we know what's going on.
1:35:11
And you found yourself in India doing something rather extraordinary
1:35:17
at this historic moment last year.
1:35:21
Please talk to us about that.
1:35:23
What did you do?
1:35:24
And why, how did you end up
1:35:25
Kansas Carradine: there?
1:35:27
So part of the service oriented outreach of HeartMath and specifically with a
1:35:33
group called the Heart Ambassadors that I've been involved with for over a decade
1:35:37
is outreach internationally, both for helping improve the status of women, as
1:35:45
well as working to teach emotional self regulation to children, street children,
1:35:50
and Also teaching sustainable agriculture.
1:35:53
So there's a lot of different avenues and all of those.
1:35:58
Aspects, all of those projects really came together for an opportunity to
1:36:05
discuss and to give back for the G20 that took place in India last year.
1:36:10
So I went along as the delegate for the FIERA Foundation and for Heart
1:36:15
Ambassadors, we presented along with my daughter, which was amazing because
1:36:21
it was actually her inclination that.
1:36:24
That we went, I thought that she was going to be going with a different
1:36:27
chaperone and we couldn't find one.
1:36:29
And so I ended up going along with her.
1:36:33
So the first summit that we attended was integrated holistic health and teaching
1:36:37
about heart math principles and how that can actually remove bias that is
1:36:41
so present because a lot of the data that we have is also very gender biased.
1:36:47
At the same time, being able to have integrated holistic health to be able to
1:36:52
merge both Western and, you know, Arya Vedic and other holistic principles is
1:36:57
part of where the conversations were being steered in that particular summit.
1:37:02
Then we also were participating in the gender equality summit and.
1:37:07
Creating policy declaration and across the board, whether it was digital
1:37:12
technology and security, whether it was education or the net zero targets where
1:37:16
we attended the programs that were in Sikkim, which is the northern part of
1:37:20
India, close to the border of Nepal, Bhutan and China, Tibet, every single
1:37:28
sector said that mental health was at the top of their list of concern and One of
1:37:35
the things that we were advocating for was the acknowledgement for emotional
1:37:40
self regulation, both at the highest levels in government organizations, as
1:37:43
well as the being at the foundation for education in schools and employment.
1:37:51
So.
1:37:52
It was such a gift to see how we can, a lot of people have judgment about the G20
1:37:59
itself and saying that it could be, it's, it can be deemed as very ineffective.
1:38:03
But what happens there is that you meet other NGOs, all the other CSOs,
1:38:06
the civil service organizations that gather together who are doing
1:38:10
incredible work, their grassroots organizations, connecting with them.
1:38:15
Created such a renewed sense of optimism when you walk away and you see all of
1:38:19
these projects that are happening on the front lines that in and of itself creates
1:38:24
a resonance because the optimism feeling that we optimistic feeling that we have
1:38:29
that generates momentum and so the ripple effect that is we're still feeling that.
1:38:34
From that incredible six weeks that we ended up spending, I was supposed
1:38:37
to be there for two weeks and we ended up staying for six and traveling from
1:38:41
the southern tip of Kerala, we were in Delhi, Bhuvaneshwar, as well as Sikkim
1:38:46
for all of the different G20 conferences.
1:38:49
Rupert Isaacson: And in that time, is there a time when you then
1:38:52
stand in front of Biden, Mosey, Rishi Sunak and say, listen chaps.
1:39:01
I'm going to tell you about this hot math thing, or is it more diffused than that?
1:39:06
How, what's the structure of it?
1:39:08
Kansas Carradine: Well, the process is there's a very long bureaucratic
1:39:12
process of creating policy declaration because just to give you an idea,
1:39:17
when the G20 took the civil, the CSO civil service organizations as
1:39:21
part of the C20 branch of the G20.
1:39:24
And so.
1:39:25
That took place in Indonesia in 2022.
1:39:29
They had, I think, over 500 NGOs that came together for it.
1:39:33
And that was inclusive of all of the different working groups.
1:39:37
This year, just for the integrated holistic health in India,
1:39:39
they had over 800 and there's 14 different working groups.
1:39:43
So it's a massive amount of input and data and contributions
1:39:46
and opinions that everybody is trying to collect and assemble.
1:39:50
And my, extreme deep bow of respect goes to the organizers
1:39:55
who were able to process.
1:39:57
They didn't use it.
1:39:58
Use AI to do this, but to really go and listen to the concerns to the
1:40:04
suggestions to the policy declarations to each and every individual who
1:40:07
was there gathered at the table for the separate working working groups.
1:40:13
So we would gather and have forum, and each person might
1:40:15
get just a minute to speak.
1:40:17
And then we would be crafting policy declarations, and then it would be
1:40:21
whittled down to another, say, 350 words.
1:40:24
And then white papers could be added, so supported research papers
1:40:28
could be added as an addendum.
1:40:30
But ultimately, there was a whole policy declaration packet that G20 leaders
1:40:35
in September, after months of delegate input, and then editing processes.
1:40:43
And what did,
1:40:43
Rupert Isaacson: what did those leaders do with those policy declarations
1:40:47
that you guys provided them?
1:40:49
Did they use them as toilet paper?
1:40:50
Did they roll joints with them?
1:40:52
Did they actually read them?
1:40:53
What did they do with them?
1:40:55
Kansas Carradine: Well, like I said, The end result, I think
1:40:58
humans, we can get quite fixated on.
1:41:00
You have to make a policy.
1:41:01
You have to make a change right now.
1:41:02
We want to see this implemented immediately.
1:41:04
And to me, the gathering of the group is really something
1:41:08
to highlight and focus upon.
1:41:10
They were given the policy packet recommendations, and then there was
1:41:14
certain targets that they will implement.
1:41:18
And so, for example, by 2025, it was, we could say, mandated that.
1:41:25
Emotional self regulation, emotional self regulation tools will be taught
1:41:30
through all government agencies as well as schools in the G20 countries.
1:41:35
Right?
1:41:35
So that's 1 example.
1:41:38
The the.
1:41:40
For example, the disability working group was bracketed
1:41:43
underneath the gender equality.
1:41:45
It was kind of sandwiched in there.
1:41:47
And 1 of the changes that we were a part of is that needs to be its own
1:41:51
separate working group and delegation.
1:41:53
And so that was another win that came out of the 2023 conferences and each time
1:41:59
that everybody gathers, there's small.
1:42:02
Incremental steps toward really what we all want to see, but the conversations
1:42:08
that happen around it and the connections that are made, because ultimately it's
1:42:12
the people on the ground that implement.
1:42:14
So, whether or not it comes from the heads of state, the people on the ground say,
1:42:17
oh, this is what's working in my country.
1:42:19
Oh, this is a great program.
1:42:20
Let's emulate.
1:42:21
Okay, let's network on this.
1:42:22
And then we start to really see that grow.
1:42:25
And that movement creates, I would say a larger waterfall of change than
1:42:31
anything coming from the top down.
1:42:33
Rupert Isaacson: Right.
1:42:33
And would you say that then the, the policy recommendations that
1:42:37
are made, is it also way to sub telegraphing to those leaders?
1:42:42
And of course the apparatus is around those leaders, which are, as you say,
1:42:46
longer there than any elected official, you know, the state department will
1:42:50
be the state department, no matter who is in who the president is currently.
1:42:54
British Civil Service will be the British Civil Service, no matter who
1:42:57
happens to be Prime Minister right now.
1:42:59
Is it, is it signaling to those policy makers, listen, this is
1:43:03
where the zeitgeist is right now.
1:43:05
This is where people want to go.
1:43:08
So if you don't go this way, you're sort of going against history.
1:43:12
If you go this way, you're going with the constituency, and it's evolving this way.
1:43:18
So we recommend that you.
1:43:19
Do these things.
1:43:20
Is it sort of like
1:43:21
Kansas Carradine: that?
1:43:22
Certainly.
1:43:23
I mean, I think like, like I said, with the fact that mental health came
1:43:27
up at the top of the list for so many.
1:43:30
This was an indisputable concern that really needed to be addressed.
1:43:37
And so it has more gravity associated with that.
1:43:41
Rupert Isaacson: That's brilliant.
1:43:42
Okay.
1:43:43
What was the name of the foundation again?
1:43:45
I know I'm playing devil's advocate, but I think people need
1:43:47
Kansas Carradine: to hear this.
1:43:49
Sure.
1:43:49
It's the Fiera Foundation, F Y E R A Foundation.
1:43:53
F Y E R A.
1:43:54
And the Fiera Foundation has also been involved with the United Nations for quite
1:43:58
some time and speaks on the Who are they?
1:44:01
Commission for the Status of Women.
1:44:02
And why are you involved in them?
1:44:04
And it's started, it's a non profit that began by my mentor through HeartMath.
1:44:10
And it started out She was working, her name is Sheva Kaur.
1:44:14
And Sheva Is another person that you could have on the show is is amazing.
1:44:20
She was working in Nicaragua during the war and she was so impacted
1:44:27
by her experience there that she wanted to be able to give back and
1:44:30
started at 1st, a nonprofit that was.
1:44:34
Just feeding and clothing and bringing education to rural,
1:44:39
mostly rural street children.
1:44:40
And then that expanded to also creating some sustainable agriculture programs
1:44:45
as well as teaching heart math.
1:44:47
And then that organization grew to being able to also have programs in Zimbabwe.
1:44:54
Bringing clean water.
1:44:56
There's been teaching emotional self-regulation to refugees in different
1:45:01
war torn situations, as well as working on negotiations between Israel and Palestine.
1:45:07
There's an outreach that is in California helping those who've been dealing with
1:45:12
disaster from fires and, and things like that, and being displaced from climate.
1:45:18
Emergencies and teaching heart math as well.
1:45:21
So.
1:45:22
If it makes sense to really bring in the actual tools of heart
1:45:25
math, then that can come in.
1:45:27
But ultimately, we we've also learned that just having basic needs, then you
1:45:33
can start to share and teach tools.
1:45:35
So, if the need at the time is really just providing basic sustenance or
1:45:41
basic education or basic supplies so that they can go to school, then that's
1:45:45
the means the needs that are met.
1:45:47
So there's many different, projects that the fear foundation has been
1:45:51
involved in for quite some time.
1:45:52
Rupert Isaacson: And the fear foundation was actually originally sending your
1:45:55
daughter and you were going along with Shafira and then of course got involved.
1:45:58
Why
1:45:59
Kansas Carradine: was it sending your daughter?
1:46:00
She as a youth delegate.
1:46:02
Okay.
1:46:03
How old
1:46:03
Rupert Isaacson: is your daughter?
1:46:04
How old was
1:46:05
Kansas Carradine: she then?
1:46:05
She's 18.
1:46:06
She's 18.
1:46:07
She was 17.
1:46:09
Yeah.
1:46:09
So we ended up going, going together.
1:46:11
I haven't traveling so much at the time.
1:46:13
I thought, Oh, I can't, I had just gotten back into the country,
1:46:16
been gone for seven months.
1:46:17
And I thought, I can't leave for India in two weeks.
1:46:20
But I did, and I went for, for six.
1:46:24
So that's part of just really following my heart and, and being able and
1:46:31
willing to be of service in that way.
1:46:34
Okay.
1:46:35
Rupert Isaacson: So now I happen to know that you and my great friend, Warwick
1:46:40
Schiller, have been down more recently in Patagonia and you've been doing a
1:46:47
very fun and rather crazy adventure down there that people call the Gaucho Derby.
1:46:54
Why?
1:46:56
It's, I know it's like a 500 mile ride through Patagonia, which of course anyone
1:47:00
would want to do just for its own sake, because it's an awesome thing to do.
1:47:03
Is it just.
1:47:06
A wealthy, horsey person's fun month.
1:47:11
And there's nothing wrong with that, or is it something else as well?
1:47:17
What was going on with that?
1:47:18
Why, why were you going down there and doing that thing?
1:47:22
And tell us about it.
1:47:23
What is
1:47:24
Kansas Carradine: the Gaucho Derby?
1:47:25
Certainly.
1:47:26
So the Gaucho Derby itself, it's a 500 kilometer track.
1:47:30
When we were there, they decided to explain to us all the, the truth
1:47:34
behind it is it's not a horse race.
1:47:36
It is a survivalist, orienteering, mountaineering race.
1:47:41
On horses, self navigated so there is no real trail.
1:47:45
You have GPS points that you follow along the way.
1:47:48
There's 19 of those until you get to the finish line.
1:47:50
It's supposed to be 500 kilometers, however, work and I tracked 687.
1:47:56
So that's about 425 miles and you have 10 days to complete it.
1:48:02
The, the leaders came in, I believe at eight days, we came in at
1:48:05
nine and then the rest came in at
1:48:07
Rupert Isaacson: 10.
1:48:07
Are you like hundreds of riders strung out over the same landscape or do you?
1:48:11
You all start at different times in little teams.
1:48:13
How's it go?
1:48:14
Well,
1:48:15
Kansas Carradine: we all start off this start line at the same time.
1:48:18
There's not hundreds of writers from what I understand.
1:48:20
There's a couple hundred applicants, but there's only about 40 writers.
1:48:24
I think we had 38 from several different countries and everybody converges and
1:48:28
has three days of orientation that include intense medical briefings.
1:48:32
And yeah, Yeah.
1:48:33
Understanding how to work the GPS, as well as being able to pack all of your
1:48:37
equipment on your horses securely.
1:48:39
That was definitely tested, especially within the 1st week or 1st few days of
1:48:44
riding is invariably saddle would turn.
1:48:47
Horses would go off and gear would go everywhere.
1:48:50
So arriving early to get all of that.
1:48:53
Dialed in, it was really useful.
1:48:56
So the reason that I did it, Rupert, is Warwick had actually invited me or told
1:49:01
me about it and said, Hey, would you be interested in doing this about a year
1:49:03
ago when I ran into him at Aquitana?
1:49:06
And I thought immediately I said, no, I don't need to put myself in that
1:49:12
either ego trip or kind of this race that just seems like an adventure thing.
1:49:17
And I don't want to put myself in a situation where I could
1:49:19
compromise my horse's welfare.
1:49:21
That to me was a big red flag.
1:49:24
Then a year passed.
1:49:26
I like many of us have been modulating and I think in huge hinge points and
1:49:32
there's just tremendous amount of growth taking place on the planet right now.
1:49:37
And when I spoke with Warwick about it again, I thought,
1:49:39
gosh, what an interesting, I learned more about the Derby.
1:49:41
I learned more about Stevie Della Hunt, who was his coach, who's been down there
1:49:45
and she's one of the event organizers.
1:49:47
And I thought, and was really captivated by the horses.
1:49:51
So, he said that somebody dropped out last minute and if I was interested,
1:49:54
I could contact this other person.
1:49:56
Basically most people.
1:49:58
Plan for a year or more and I had about 6 weeks to get everything
1:50:02
together and I had to get really clear about why I was doing it.
1:50:05
And number 1 was by far to connect with those horses.
1:50:09
I had heard amazing things about them and how they have really retained their
1:50:13
spirit and their connection to their authentic self and their authentic
1:50:19
capabilities of full Full embodiment of the equine is just next level.
1:50:26
How, how those horses are so agile and so adept at carrying humans on their
1:50:32
back across treacherous landscapes.
1:50:35
And at the same time, I also wanted to go there to connect
1:50:39
with the land and to really.
1:50:42
I was able to get a first hand experience about the Patagonia region.
1:50:47
It was the only country that I had our continent that I hadn't really been on and
1:50:51
I know that the Patagonia has sensitive, delicate, specialized landscape that I
1:50:56
was interested in learning more about it and seeing what I could do to give back.
1:51:00
I was shocked at how many people did not know that the Patagonia
1:51:04
region was in South America.
1:51:06
That I encountered so always wanting to bring that back for education,
1:51:11
both to some of the clients and nonprofits that I work with.
1:51:15
I still work with at risk youth and different inner city context and then to
1:51:21
be able to share the wisdom that I felt.
1:51:25
Those were the two reasons that I wanted to go there, and my experience was
1:51:29
exceeded my expectations in all ways.
1:51:32
I was able to connect with those horses and feel, again, I talked about it
1:51:38
at the beginning of our discussion, when one has safety, the resonance
1:51:41
of safety, when that is present, then you can be of service to others.
1:51:44
And so because I felt really safe and secure on my horses, I was able to help.
1:51:49
Whether it was just holding another person's horse, because they needed
1:51:52
to reset their saddle or whether it was giving extra food, because
1:51:56
somebody's resupply bag hadn't shown up and just offering kind words and
1:52:00
guidance and support and compassion, because everybody was tested out there.
1:52:04
It was really challenging the weather, the.
1:52:08
Just being on demand all the time.
1:52:09
You're setting up your own tent.
1:52:11
You're riding about 10 to 12 hours a day.
1:52:14
You have to draw the number out of hat for the horse that you get
1:52:17
and then go in and catch them.
1:52:19
And none of that is easy.
1:52:20
It went really well for me, and I'm grateful for that.
1:52:24
I had a.
1:52:25
Fantastic experience and just adored every 1 of my horses and
1:52:27
would have brought them back home.
1:52:29
And I also met my growth edge, which is, in the beginning, I had also imagined
1:52:35
that we might be able to flow along closer to the front of the pack and right
1:52:41
at the beginning work and I had decided that we would stay with each other.
1:52:44
And on day 2, he actually cut a horse out of a fence.
1:52:48
And so that created a little bit of a delay as we were going into a vet check.
1:52:51
So we were held back and then he cut another horse out of a fence that got.
1:52:56
All 4 legs stuck into some wires and I was teasing.
1:52:59
Oh, I'm just going to hang around with work while he helps rescue horses.
1:53:02
But he had a horse that came up lame.
1:53:04
And so we went all the way back and there was a certain amount of disappointment
1:53:08
that I had to unpack because it sure would have been fun to be up there
1:53:12
with some of our other friends.
1:53:14
But as.
1:53:15
The universe would create a perfect situation.
1:53:19
We had no idea that we actually were all going to meet because it was, you
1:53:26
know, 1 step forward, 2 steps back.
1:53:27
You never know how it was going to happen and how people were going to reconvene.
1:53:30
But.
1:53:31
There was, there was definitely an elasticity to, you know, who the
1:53:35
leaders were and, and what the metric of success would be and could be.
1:53:40
And as soon, I felt really blessed that on day 2, I had to shed that
1:53:46
metric of success immediately.
1:53:48
And so then it allowed me to just really be open and available.
1:53:52
The entire experience because success for me was being able to be present,
1:53:56
being able to have that security and that connection with the horses and
1:54:02
to stay safe and complete it while feeling good and and in that sense,
1:54:08
it was extremely successful and I adored all of those horses and it was.
1:54:12
Right, good fun as well.
1:54:15
Rupert Isaacson: I won't tell anyone about the fun bit.
1:54:17
What's the element of service that you think you're gonna now you've had your
1:54:21
eyes open to this part of the world?
1:54:23
I know that there are, I happen to know, because I'm involved in the conservation
1:54:26
world, so I happen to know that there are large scale, large, large scale
1:54:29
conservation measures going on down there.
1:54:32
Through, you know, the company Patagonia, the clothing company, and
1:54:35
all sorts of private philanthropists.
1:54:37
But.
1:54:37
What, what, you know, what, what element of service do you
1:54:41
feel is your next chapter now?
1:54:43
It's clearly you've been drawn down there.
1:54:45
What, what's, what's next for you?
1:54:47
Are you going to do something down there?
1:54:48
Something
1:54:48
Kansas Carradine: interesting?
1:54:50
Well, I would like to continue to educate.
1:54:52
And so I would really be attracted to bringing groups down there so
1:54:55
that they can see firsthand and learn and understand the vastness.
1:54:58
It's really the undeveloped aspect of it.
1:55:01
And so there's a pristine quality to the land and that
1:55:04
when we are truly removed from.
1:55:06
Both wifi signals, as well as cities and roads and infrastructures, because
1:55:09
those roads themselves disrupt migratory patterns, as you know, very well.
1:55:14
There's less development civilization.
1:55:17
So one can experience a lot of stillness that is quite rare.
1:55:24
I find in other aspects or in other places in society.
1:55:29
So there's something to be said for just Being able to drop in deeply and
1:55:34
then at the same time, there's actual opportunities for outreach that right now.
1:55:39
I was able to meet somebody who is aligned with that particular
1:55:42
Patagonia conservations where they're giving back land.
1:55:44
So they're buying massive amounts of land and then giving it back
1:55:47
and creating national park systems.
1:55:49
And I saw some of the land that.
1:55:52
Is still being contested, still estancias, and there's private
1:55:56
ownerships in between parks, for example, that they want to conserve.
1:56:00
And there's different endemic species that basically just need funding
1:56:04
to be able to research properly.
1:56:06
For example, there's the hooded grid, which is a water bird that.
1:56:10
I think it was 40 years ago, they had 5000 and now the numbers are
1:56:14
down to like 400 mating pairs.
1:56:16
And part of it is because of a loss of habitat, not just because of less
1:56:21
snow, which those lagoons create a specific environment, but also
1:56:25
the introduction introduction of invasive species, the American mink.
1:56:30
That really does a number on the population, but being able to
1:56:34
bring awareness to that and say, oh, there's things that we can do.
1:56:37
We just need to be able to get more research.
1:56:39
We need to have a little bit more support down here so that we can, make
1:56:43
an impact, it can happen right now.
1:56:45
Right now, a time is of the essence.
1:56:47
And then there was also another endemic species a type of chinchilla that has been
1:56:52
hunted both for its fur and for its meat.
1:56:54
And those are also protective in those conservation lands, which you know,
1:56:58
Douglas and Chris Thompson were very.
1:57:01
A Tompkins, excuse me, we're very instrumental in creating
1:57:04
that particular sanctuary.
1:57:06
So, I have always said, I just want to align myself to really be an instrument.
1:57:11
And if that is just to be able to create a pathway of information to start to
1:57:15
come back and then be able to show people firsthand how they can make an impact.
1:57:20
It's about education and creating educational opportunities.
1:57:23
I had discussions with somebody who was actually the, secretary of the
1:57:27
environment for the Santa Cruz state and already has a lot of ideas to
1:57:33
educate the local community, but just needs some help with, like, developing
1:57:37
apps and being able to create a kind of the technology to support around it.
1:57:42
So, I'm interested in collaborating with some of my friends that are in tech
1:57:45
to see if we can do that to help him.
1:57:47
Rupert Isaacson: Cool.
1:57:48
So you're going to be doing more stuff down there.
1:57:51
Kansas Carradine: I'd like to absolutely sounds like I just
1:57:53
got back like a couple weeks ago.
1:57:55
So, I mean, I think I came back eight days ago.
1:57:59
So this is very recent.
1:58:01
Rupert Isaacson: And you're also doing stuff that's much more close to home.
1:58:03
For example, you know, you sent me a link, which I'd seen of you
1:58:06
doing work with the Compton Cowboys.
1:58:08
Those again, listeners that don't know what that is.
1:58:10
That's an in city Los Angeles.
1:58:12
We all, you know.
1:58:14
Straight out of Compton, et cetera, rap, but with that comes, of
1:58:17
course, inner city unpleasantnesses.
1:58:20
And they have a long standing equestrian project there called the Compton Cowboys.
1:58:25
I know you've been involved with them.
1:58:27
That's quite recent.
1:58:28
Can you tell us a little bit about that and that sort of work?
1:58:32
Kansas Carradine: Sure, yeah, it's a friend of mine.
1:58:34
Actually, she has headed up the show jumping arm of it.
1:58:37
And so for the last 15 years, the children who's really put their time
1:58:44
into the program and show a high level of commitment actually get it
1:58:49
and the opportunity to compete in.
1:58:52
Hunter jumper and show jumping at a very high level because of the endowment and
1:58:57
the donations that have been given because ultimately, as, as, you know, it's a very
1:59:01
difficult for it to penetrate, even if you're a middle class and right now to
1:59:05
be able to give that it's an opportunity to not only create more diversity in it,
1:59:10
but I think anybody can attest there's.
1:59:12
There's a huge amount of self mastery that one can learn also when
1:59:16
being in partnership with a horse in that powerful and over fences
1:59:19
and in a competitive environment.
1:59:21
So what I've been able to do is spend some time with both the beginners down in
1:59:27
Compton that are just learning the basics, just balance and handling and horsemanship
1:59:31
and horse care, as well as those that are in the, the youth show jumping team
1:59:35
to help them understand about what.
1:59:37
Their energy brings into the interaction with the horse and to start to perceive
1:59:43
again, a wider view a bigger picture, if you will, or a bird's eye view of how we
1:59:50
relate to these species and how we can.
1:59:53
Honor and respect and treat all of our interactions with them as sacred.
1:59:57
This is really what, what I do every time I, I interact with anybody in regards
2:00:01
to horses is just help them remind and cultivate visceral experiences that
2:00:06
they can remember to bring more sacred sacredness into their interactions.
2:00:10
Rupert Isaacson: It's interesting that that's where we started.
2:00:12
I mean, when you were talking about, you know, Cavalia would show up in the cities.
2:00:17
And I remember, yeah, in Dallas where, where you guys were performing, it was.
2:00:23
Very much in the city.
2:00:24
And we used to do, and bringing that magic we used to do that a lot
2:00:28
in the early days with Horseboy.
2:00:29
We would go and set up in city parks in Austin, Texas.
2:00:32
And we'd just show up with the horses in a trailer, show up by a playground,
2:00:36
and the kids would just go, and we'd just start working with them.
2:00:39
Because it was, it was, you know, just the riding down the street, just.
2:00:42
I remember that when I was a little boy in London, just the appearance of a
2:00:45
horse and you know, reality of change.
2:00:48
So this thing about the shifting of reality is sort of where I want to, I
2:00:54
could, I could go on for another hour, but I know you're tired and I would
2:00:58
like to have you back on because there's actually a lot more I'd like to ask you.
2:01:01
But you're, you're, you're clearly somebody who has lived.
2:01:06
consecutive and parallel lives.
2:01:08
And one of the questions which I often get and which I often hear posed to people
2:01:17
like that is, how do you find the time?
2:01:20
And one of the, you said something in our preamble before we hit the record button.
2:01:26
So I just want to have you speak to this a little bit.
2:01:30
And I loved what you said, it's in a quote, so this is
2:01:33
a quote from Kansas Caroline.
2:01:35
It's, time itself is up for inquiry.
2:01:42
Tell us, tell us what you mean by that.
2:01:45
Kansas Carradine: Well, I, we, you and I both have spent a fair bit of time,
2:01:49
Rupert, in Indigenous communities.
2:01:52
And anyone who has will notice that the Western concept of time
2:01:58
is very fixed and inflexible.
2:02:02
In a way, and it creates this sense of pressure.
2:02:05
It's also something that I speak to a lot when we're working with horses.
2:02:07
Anytime you start to put this idea of, Oh, I want to get faster, whether it's
2:02:11
in calf roping or whether I need to get done because I have a dentist appointment.
2:02:15
Those are both ways that.
2:02:17
Time synthetically dilutes really the experience or kind
2:02:22
of corrodes the experience of relationship and being present.
2:02:26
It's toxic time, almost, yeah.
2:02:28
It creates it, yeah, it's like there's a pervasive toxicity that comes into it
2:02:33
and when you spend time with time, with native people and in, on the reservations
2:02:41
and with indigenous communities, you start to realize that time is.
2:02:47
When it feels right, as opposed to because of a number on a digital clock
2:02:51
or the, when a hand moves to a particular position and there's a beauty to that
2:02:59
because with it comes relaxation and with that relaxation, there's an openness.
2:03:04
We think of it as, like, there's a breath that decontracts and when we
2:03:09
have that true presence, awareness, relaxation, it can create an open
2:03:15
up to other possibilities and.
2:03:18
I find that my relationship with time was different because being an
2:03:22
artist, you don't have to clock in, clock out in the same way and working
2:03:27
with horses, I didn't have to follow a fixed instructor program where I said,
2:03:32
okay, I've got a 30 minute lesson.
2:03:33
Okay.
2:03:33
I've got another 30 minute lesson.
2:03:34
And it wasn't as fixed.
2:03:37
If I was working with a horse and everything was accomplished in 15 minutes,
2:03:40
then we would allow that to settle.
2:03:43
And if it took two hours, then that was okay, too.
2:03:46
So being able to have that freedom is definitely something that comes
2:03:50
of privilege, but it allows for a different communication to unfold.
2:03:55
And that elegant unfolding also is present in our lives when we can slow down.
2:04:01
And my children, I would say, and being a homeschooling parent, and being with them,
2:04:10
Child time or horse time and nature time.
2:04:14
It all just allowed a little bit more of an expanded space.
2:04:18
I chose deliberately not to engage in a lot of social media for the last 15 years.
2:04:23
I'd say I chose to then because only recently in the last two months since
2:04:27
the Gaucho Derby, I have entered on to it a little bit, but that freed up a
2:04:32
lot of time because I was never posting.
2:04:35
I was never scrolling on those type of things and my children,
2:04:41
for example, didn't have phones, like my older daughter is now 18.
2:04:46
She didn't have a phone at all until she was 16 and at the time it seemed so
2:04:52
So bizarre, people just really didn't understand it, but it allowed us to
2:04:56
really drop in deeply with each other and be present with each other more often.
2:05:01
And I think that that has Contributed to finding more space
2:05:07
for that, which is meaningful.
2:05:10
And now, when I notice that rushed energy coming in immediately, I'll have
2:05:15
the reflex to try and create that decom track, trying to create that expansion.
2:05:21
We shared about this at the beginning of the call, but there's a friend
2:05:23
of mine who works in indigenous communities in Thailand and the
2:05:26
government was trying to schedule a tourist a tourist calendar that would
2:05:31
allow them to proceed to observe these cultural events that were taking place.
2:05:35
And so they asked the elders when they would.
2:05:37
When they could put it on the calendar, basically, to which they replied,
2:05:42
well, there is no calendar for it.
2:05:44
It's not by the moon.
2:05:45
It's just when it's time.
2:05:46
It's just when it feels right.
2:05:48
And to, I mean, just imagine that for a moment, what would
2:05:51
it be like to go through life?
2:05:54
And decide to bring a teaching forward, for example, when it feels right,
2:06:00
not because the clock has ticked or because this is the next thing in
2:06:05
the order of a very linear process.
2:06:07
It would create a whole different experience.
2:06:09
And so, the more that we can find opportunities for going by feel, As
2:06:14
opposed to just going by, you know, the intellect, the logic, or this
2:06:18
time construct, it gives us at least a little bit of a balance because,
2:06:23
yes, we do need organization in life.
2:06:25
It's not about, I mentioned earlier this term, throwing the
2:06:28
baby out with the bathwater.
2:06:30
It's about finding the blend, the both and, but the, The inquiry of how can I
2:06:36
have a different relationship with time?
2:06:38
How can I recognize and befriend that idea of going with feel as opposed to the
2:06:44
metric of measurement that is is relative?
2:06:48
Would you
2:06:48
Rupert Isaacson: say, would you, is it fair to say that what you're
2:06:51
effectively, one of the things you're effectively saying is in order to
2:06:55
Create more time to do more things.
2:06:59
You don't need to speed up.
2:07:00
You need to slow down.
2:07:04
Kansas Carradine: I like that That's gonna be the quote for our call Absolutely.
2:07:09
Absolutely.
2:07:10
And that's such a beautiful, this is a beautiful statement
2:07:16
for horses because we have this.
2:07:21
Opposing idea that we need to rush in and save something, you know,
2:07:26
when things get big and there's an accident and whatnot, we think
2:07:28
we need to rush around and fix it.
2:07:30
And it's opposite.
2:07:31
If you feel that need to rush in, really take that extra pause and come
2:07:36
back and come to a place where we're responding as opposed to reacting.
2:07:42
Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely.
2:07:44
Past, present and future all together at the same time.
2:07:47
You know, this.
2:07:49
I, I, I, well, in my own equestrian endeavour.
2:07:55
More and more I don't like to, I try not to use the word working my horse
2:08:00
anymore, you know, I've got to go work on my flying change, I've got to
2:08:03
go work, it's like, I'm not working, I'm playing, I'm playing, and this
2:08:08
horse is generously, you know, playing with me, could be doing other things.
2:08:16
And as you say, connecting me to nature because I'm there I am on my horse, so
2:08:21
I might be doing some dressage thing or something, but then I'm also looking up
2:08:25
at the birds and I'm also noticing how the clouds go across the sky and I'm thinking
2:08:29
about the weather system that's coming in.
2:08:31
And I'd be doing that if I was walking on the land as well.
2:08:34
I like to be on the horse, so I'm more likely to be on
2:08:37
the land if I'm on the horse.
2:08:38
And it, then I'm going to notice and notice and notice and notice
2:08:42
and notice where the mice have gone because they leave their trails in the,
2:08:47
in the sand by the arena and so on.
2:08:50
Then you're thinking mouse, then you're thinking, you know,
2:08:52
insect, then you're thinking.
2:08:54
And it was, it was lovely the other day we were quote unquote, working on.
2:09:00
Something or other contact, I think, in a workshop, and I noticed that several
2:09:06
of the people's attention had strayed as I was trying to explain something,
2:09:10
and I looked, I said, what are you, what are you looking at down there?
2:09:13
They just found a very early season bumblebee.
2:09:16
Who was out, who'd come out of hibernation a bit early,
2:09:20
and they'd called her Barbara.
2:09:21
And they were trying to, they were trying to make sure that
2:09:24
Barbara didn't get too cold.
2:09:25
And I was like, this is absolutely what we should be doing right now.
2:09:29
Absolutely.
2:09:31
You know, and you could see the horses going, yeah, absolutely.
2:09:33
You should go do that.
2:09:34
We'll still be here.
2:09:36
Go attend to that bee.
2:09:37
And then suddenly there was all this metaphor for what is contact, what is
2:09:40
contact, contact is contact with the planet, contact is, you know, and but, you
2:09:45
know, in my, in a previous incarnation, I might have gone, Oh, my gosh, these
2:09:48
people are paying me to be here.
2:09:50
I've got to deliver this, you know, contact thing.
2:09:53
And.
2:09:54
Now it's much more, well, gosh, no, this is what's happening right here.
2:09:59
The horses have led us here.
2:10:00
This is a wonderful thing.
2:10:01
But really we're just playing.
2:10:04
I feel that playfulness, you know, that all the time that I've spent living with
2:10:08
hunting and gathering cultures, which is sort of the blueprint of humanity.
2:10:12
It's a supremely playful.
2:10:14
way of existing that they don't talk about work.
2:10:19
You know, we thought it must be so hard to survive.
2:10:21
Yes.
2:10:21
If they've been kicked off their land.
2:10:23
Yes.
2:10:23
If their resources have been depleted, sure.
2:10:26
But if, if, if humans are in areas where the resources are abundant, which is
2:10:32
of course, the entire planet, really, it's just that, you know, lack of,
2:10:36
you know, scarcity has been created.
2:10:38
The original affluent cultures, you know, there is this time
2:10:42
that we often associate with.
2:10:46
material wealth, because material wealth can buy one time, but then, of course,
2:10:51
one has to go look after that wealth.
2:10:53
And I suppose you could say a hunter gatherer has to also
2:10:56
conserve their environment, but that, and that's very joyful work.
2:10:59
Is it work?
2:11:00
Is it even work?
2:11:01
Why are we, you know, so we do, are we really born to work or
2:11:06
are we born to play and explore?
2:11:10
Be in relationship.
2:11:11
And that's about it.
2:11:13
And I think you're what you said is time itself is up for inquiry.
2:11:20
Sort of brought those things into focus for me.
2:11:22
So I'm really grateful you said that.
2:11:27
Kansas Carradine: Yeah, it's it's the ongoing aspects and the layers.
2:11:31
I think of perception as well.
2:11:34
Continue to unfold and as the veils go back and you know, there's different
2:11:40
learnings that we'll have maybe had 20 years ago and then they come back
2:11:43
and they teach you all over again.
2:11:45
So, in that sense, time is, is truly here always and really making
2:11:51
a commitment to staying as present as we can to not be stuck in those
2:11:58
thoughts of future anticipation or reactivity from past imprinting.
2:12:03
It requires a certain amount of awareness and, and in a way discipline
2:12:09
because there's these well worn grooves of, well, this is what I always do,
2:12:13
or this is where I need to go down.
2:12:15
This is where my thoughts naturally flow.
2:12:17
And then to have that.
2:12:19
Awareness and really stop that before it starts again.
2:12:23
We can go back to the horse interactions where people eventually over time begin
2:12:29
to notice what happens before the change the signals of communication, whether
2:12:36
it's if you're on the ground and you're.
2:12:39
just getting ready to find out if you have permission or consent to be able to
2:12:42
catch a horse, just before there's the acceptance or the actual big movement,
2:12:47
there might be a breath or there might be a change in the tension around the eye and
2:12:52
starting to recognize all that, and then we could argue that the imperceptible,
2:12:56
that's just relying off of visual imagery.
2:12:59
There's other things that are less measurable and More of the subtle as
2:13:04
opposed to the gross that are around us all the time and that can only
2:13:08
happen when we're really truly present.
2:13:14
Rupert Isaacson: What comes through what you're talking about, everything that
2:13:17
you've described, and I've been writing down, you know, apprenticeship, mentoring
2:13:23
moving in with sitting at the feet of the master, allowing oneself to be mentored.
2:13:28
This is a.
2:13:29
Difficult thing, you know, for a lot of us service, what seems to be
2:13:35
synthesized out of those words is joy.
2:13:39
And it seems to me that, you know, we talk about self actualization, you
2:13:43
know, in this show, just that, that was the theme, but really, what is that?
2:13:48
But joy, what is that?
2:13:49
But a joyful life, and it seems that that is what you have been involved
2:13:54
with really from the get go and that.
2:13:57
Whatever, you know, dark nights of the soul, you might have gone through
2:14:02
from one incarnation to another incarnation that seemed, you know,
2:14:07
the bringing of joy, going back to Kabbalah, going back to that thing you,
2:14:11
you, you were bringing a palpable joy.
2:14:15
Into those communities and it seems that you have kept right on going with that.
2:14:19
Mm
2:14:20
Kansas Carradine: hmm.
2:14:21
Well, like you mentioned, there's an evolution with it.
2:14:24
I would definitely say, and I mean, I could do the Derby with joy.
2:14:28
I had so much joy.
2:14:30
It was, it was almost People were teasing me because I would just be
2:14:34
laughing my way through all of this.
2:14:36
And, and It's because I met so many parts of myself that were fractured
2:14:43
and disharmonious and all of it really had to do with either pleasing other
2:14:49
or being worried about approval.
2:14:53
The insecurity that comes with self judgment and self criticism, which
2:14:58
is why the thing that I find I can really help and be of service to teach
2:15:04
is to help let go of our judgments of ourselves and to be more compassionate
2:15:11
to our fellow earth travelers.
2:15:15
Rupert Isaacson: The travel aspect there, you know, that's I was just flapping
2:15:19
my hands for the listeners that can't see and I did a little clappy thing.
2:15:23
So I got excited what you were saying that the reason I got excited was,
2:15:27
you know, as you were describing your journey across Patagonia, of course, what
2:15:30
that sounds to me like is pilgrimage.
2:15:33
And I am more and more of the conviction that, because we are hunter gatherer
2:15:44
people, we're not necessarily nomads in that, hunter gatherers are more
2:15:47
circular nomads, they tend to, as you know, occupy different hunting and
2:15:52
gathering camps in a sort of a circular, seasonal round rather than a, you
2:15:58
know, we just sort of wander aimlessly at will, that people misunderstand
2:16:01
I think what nomadism is, but.
2:16:05
Nonetheless, it's deeply rooted in us to move over the land in deep relationship
2:16:14
with it and It sounds like very much that's what you did down there and that
2:16:22
I think it's very hard to be a joyful human if you're not doing that and you
2:16:27
don't have to go as far as Patagonia.
2:16:28
You don't have to do the Mongolia thing that I did or whatever.
2:16:31
You don't have to do that at all.
2:16:33
It can be very much in the backyard.
2:16:35
You can, you can go up in Santa Monica mountains right now.
2:16:38
You can go walk along the beach.
2:16:40
You could do, you could go to your local, you know, if you're sitting in England.
2:16:44
You can go walk the Ridgeway, the ancient chalk track going across the, the Connect
2:16:49
Stonehenge and all of these other things.
2:16:51
You can, you, you know, you can drive there and take a train
2:16:53
there and walk up there and walk it for half an hour, you know?
2:16:57
Mm-hmm.
2:16:57
The connection with the ancestors that, that, that the, the earth
2:17:00
is the bones of our ancestors.
2:17:02
It's the dust of, it's the actually died there and they actually composed of them.
2:17:07
And of course any indigenous person would say, well, yeah, of course we divorced
2:17:13
ourselves from that in our culture.
2:17:14
So I think.
2:17:17
You know, when I was groping for what's the value of going into
2:17:22
something like the, the, the Derby?
2:17:25
Well, of course, you, you pilgrimage, you pilgrimage to another area,
2:17:30
one of the last intact ecosystems, wild areas of the planet that could
2:17:36
sure use our attention and help.
2:17:39
And by pilgrimaging there, you'll go into service to it.
2:17:43
Kansas Carradine: So, yeah, I want to say one thing too.
2:17:46
I'm so glad that you brought that forward that when I was down there, it also gave
2:17:51
me a huge appreciation for what is in my homeland from my particular place
2:17:55
where I was set down on this planet.
2:17:58
This is Turtle Island here.
2:18:01
I'm currently in an area that is unceded land of the Paiute and Washoe
2:18:05
people, and every time I began my online courses or in person clinics
2:18:10
we give a land acknowledgement.
2:18:12
So the connection to where you are right now on the planet is Everything
2:18:20
you don't have to go outside of yourself or outside of your own city.
2:18:24
And part of the beauty of when I was traveling for work in all of these
2:18:28
different in urban areas is it helped me find the connection to nature in a
2:18:34
city car park in the busyness of, you know, the bus transit and all of that, we
2:18:39
don't have to only be in national parks.
2:18:41
It's a wonderful thing when we have the opportunity, cause it gives us.
2:18:44
different expanded idea of divinity, but those same trunks that when I was a
2:18:50
little girl were that were so captivating.
2:18:54
Those are present in many different urban environments as well.
2:18:58
Yeah.
2:18:58
How are
2:18:59
Rupert Isaacson: the pigeons flying?
2:19:00
How are the raccoons?
2:19:03
Flipping across your view at night as you drive.
2:19:05
Absolutely.
2:19:06
Absolutely.
2:19:07
Kansas Carradine: How a dandelion can push through the concrete and has
2:19:11
no recollection of being oppressed.
2:19:13
It just reaches the sun.
2:19:15
Rupert Isaacson: It's just.
2:19:16
And if it does get oppressed, it doesn't care.
2:19:18
It comes up again.
2:19:19
Yeah.
2:19:20
Yeah.
2:19:21
Yeah.
2:19:21
Exactly.
2:19:21
Exactly.
2:19:23
Kansas has been brilliant.
2:19:24
Look, I think we should draw it to a close here, but I, if you would, I would like
2:19:29
you to come back on, 'cause there's quite a few things more I'd like to ask you
2:19:33
around your work for people to find you.
2:19:37
What are the resources if people want to study with you, if people
2:19:40
want to do things, can you reel off the websites and emails
2:19:42
Kansas Carradine: please?
2:19:44
Certainly, yes.
2:19:45
So circus cowgirl.com has the best way to contact me, then
2:19:50
circus and then cowgirl Circus.
2:19:53
cowgirl.
2:19:54
com.
2:19:54
And there's also a Circus Cowgirl Facebook page now, which is
2:19:58
my sojourn into social media.
2:20:01
And I'm always available for one to one on one communication because for me,
2:20:08
what I believe is that the interaction, like you and I are having the live
2:20:13
interaction is, you know, it's like a lot of the courses that I do, I don't
2:20:18
like to record them because I feel like it can be taken flippantly or we can.
2:20:23
listen to the recording without the same amount of attention that we do in presence
2:20:27
than when we are live interaction.
2:20:30
So being able to have that reach out, ask me a question, ask me anything, I
2:20:35
really like to be available for both private one on one coaching or coming out
2:20:39
in person and doing an in person clinic.
2:20:42
Rupert Isaacson: And that, you can be people, if they want to learn more
2:20:45
about heart math, if they want to learn more about the again, give it the name.
2:20:49
Fiera Foundation.
2:20:50
Kansas Carradine: One more time.
2:20:50
The Fiera Foundation.
2:20:52
F Y E R A.
2:20:53
Fiera.
2:20:53
Fiera Foundation.
2:20:55
Absolutely.
2:20:56
Please spell it again.
2:20:58
F Y E R A.
2:20:59
ERA Fiera
2:21:03
Rupert Isaacson: Fiera Foundation.
2:21:06
Kansas Carradine: And if they want, and it's fiera.org.
2:21:09
Dot
2:21:09
Rupert Isaacson: org.
2:21:09
Fiera do org.
2:21:11
F-Y-E-R-A, HeartMath Institute.
2:21:15
People want to know more about that.
2:21:16
Where do they go?
2:21:18
Kansas Carradine: That's also heartmath.com or heartmath.org.
2:21:22
There's tons of resources, peer reviewed research articles free educational
2:21:28
material, as well as the more.
2:21:32
embodied courses for certification that are all available through there.
2:21:38
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
2:21:39
Yes.
2:21:39
And then obviously Skyhorse Academy for
2:21:43
Kansas Carradine: Arianna.
2:21:44
Mentorship with Arianna Mazzucchi.
2:21:47
Yes, absolutely.
2:21:48
Skyhorse
2:21:49
Rupert Isaacson: Academy.
2:21:50
Skyhorse Academy.
2:21:51
And then if people want to email you and set something up with you, they
2:21:55
can, they can just, there's an email on.
2:21:57
circuscowgirl.
2:21:58
com.
2:21:59
Kansas Carradine: Yes, you can contact me through the website.
2:22:01
That's the easiest way.
2:22:03
Or you can also just send me an email at info at circuscowgirl.
2:22:07
Rupert Isaacson: com.
2:22:07
info at circuscowgirl.
2:22:09
com.
2:22:14
Kansas Carradine: Yes.
2:22:15
Thank you so much, Robert.
2:22:16
It's been over a decade.
2:22:19
This, this conversation has been percolating in the field.
2:22:23
Rupert Isaacson: No kidding.
2:22:24
I mean, when I first met you there, there was no Horseboy Method.
2:22:27
I was just, I just published the book and Made the film about being in Mongolia
2:22:31
with my son and I didn't know that it was going to take off in this way and
2:22:35
that we were going to create an equine.
2:22:39
Yeah, I, I, I knew that I wanted to give back and I knew that I was going
2:22:44
to create a place where I could offer other families and kids the same
2:22:50
chance for the magic that my son had.
2:22:54
Found but I didn't know it would do what it did and I remember with you I could
2:22:59
tell at the time that you were also in a slightly liminal place I think you
2:23:02
were you were at that you had you'd recently left Cavalia and you were Looking
2:23:08
towards where you were going to go next.
2:23:10
It's Extraordinary now to meet you say well, you've been up
2:23:14
to some busy shit, haven't you?
2:23:18
And it's joyful shit
2:23:22
Kansas Carradine: It is a lot of joy.
2:23:23
Yeah, letting go of our shit and looking at our shit and shoveling shit, they're
2:23:27
all wonderful ways to cultivate more joy.
2:23:30
That's true.
2:23:31
A few
2:23:31
Rupert Isaacson: diapers along the way, yep.
2:23:33
Kansas Carradine: Oh, plenty of those.
2:23:34
Lots of, especially for, yeah, cloth nappies in my world.
2:23:39
Well, yes,
2:23:39
Rupert Isaacson: that's hardcore.
2:23:42
That's a podcast in and of itself.
2:23:45
All right.
2:23:45
Well, listen, thank you again.
2:23:47
If it's all right with you, I'll be in touch about going further
2:23:51
into some of these themes.
2:23:52
And I don't know if you know, we also have another, another podcast
2:23:56
called Equine Assisted World.
2:23:58
So perhaps you could come on that and talk much more in depth about
2:24:03
the actual therapies and equine assistive work that you're doing and
2:24:07
others that we should be aware of.
2:24:09
I'll be in touch about that shortly, probably as soon as I click end.
2:24:14
Kansas Carradine: Okay.
2:24:15
Yeah, no problem.
2:24:16
And thank you for all the service that you're doing and sharing these ideas and
2:24:20
disseminating information and holding the resonance that you do for the field.
2:24:24
It's wonderful.
2:24:25
Rupert Isaacson: Thank you.
2:24:25
It's a, it's a conversation I think we all have benefited from and
2:24:30
want other people to benefit from.
2:24:31
So, you know, it keeps it live.
2:24:34
All right, then I'm going to hit this dreaded red button.
2:24:38
Is there anything before I hit the dreaded red button that you?
2:24:41
Feel that we didn't say that you'd like to say.
2:24:44
Kansas Carradine: Oh, I'm so grateful for the time that we've
2:24:46
had and I know that we'll find many more things to discuss next time.
2:24:50
Rupert Isaacson: I'm grateful too.
2:24:51
Gratitude is actually what I'd like to talk about on the next one.
2:24:54
So awesome.
2:24:56
All right.
2:24:56
Thank you for joining us.
2:24:57
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2:25:00
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