Latest / Stream of Consciousness with Dan: Stories from the Midwest / Stream of Consciousness # 74 - Taylor Madison Damion - EMBERHONEY

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Stream of Consciousness # 74 - Taylor Madison Damion - EMBERHONEY · Stream of Consciousness with Dan: Stories from the Midwest

• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: All right, everybody, we are live with Stream of Consciousness with Dan.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: Today I'm joined by Manchester, England's own singer-songwriter, musician, composer, producer, visual artist, and creative force behind Ember Honey, Taylor Madison Damien.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: Now, if you're unfamiliar with Ember Honey, Taylor's work is often described as darkly poetic and cinematic, with BBC Six Music's Tom Robinson saying he hears hints of Leonard Cohen, Nick Cave, and Anna Calvey, and that she'd be right at home playing in some divy bar in Twin Peaks.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: Now that's a description that immediately made me want to hear more.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: So after spending some time with her music this week, I can tell you there's a real atmosphere to it.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: The songs feel lived in.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: There's hauntingness.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's beautiful, but it's often at the same time.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: So, Taylor, thank you so much for being on the podcast.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: How are you doing today?
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm fantastic.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for having me down.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: You're welcome.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: It is absolutely my pleasure.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: And we're going to kick things off.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: Not the Wikipedia biography version.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_02: I want to know what you looked like as a kid, things you were scared of, things that fascinated you.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe if we walked into your bedroom as a kid, what would we see?
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: What kind of posters would be on the wall?
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: Things like that.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: AK.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: I had a very unusual upbringing.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: So it won't be a typical kid bedroom.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I my both my parents were drug addicts, and my mother was quite mentally ill as well.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's quite a harrowing, violent, chaotic, creepy circus um for a childhood.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and she was put in an institution when I was eleven.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: So if we went into my bedroom about twelve, um it would have been definitely Yeah, it was a uh sort of a basement room with a concrete, bare concrete floor and very little in it, because I had very few possessions.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: But you would have seen me sat on the floor for hours with a pencil, crowns, paper, scissors, and glue, crafting an entire paper doll world that I wanted to disappear into.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: That I it was I was creating the world I wished I couldn't have it.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I was gluing it, cutting it out and gluing it piece by piece into this floor to ceiling, empty shelving unit.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: So literally the first thing I did when I got tools was create a world.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my god, that is that almost takes it to another level because I'm I'm picturing myself as a as a kid, you know, maybe uh I wasn't very artistic, so I couldn't like draw or anything like that.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_02: But, you know, with Legos or we had like these logs and you know, kind of building castles and you know, things like that, trying to escape whatever.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, obviously, your situation that's a very difficult card to be drawn for sure, but it really can kind of click when you like listen to your music.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you described it as a a concrete floor basement.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's uh I don't know if depressing is the right word, but I mean it's it's cold, it's dark, it's hairy and bleak, the whole thing bleak, but it also it shows the power of the human spirit to use creativity to lift you out of it, right?
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: To treat it into my mind to create uh a world that I could live with.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I I think that's quite one thingly beautiful about that, you know, that we no matter how bad it is, there's there's this profound resource inside of us that will emerge at the first opportunity.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I love that.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: I love the way you put that.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: And so my question when I asked if you're what you were kind of I guess frightened of, but it almost seemed like you not enjoyed, but you endured the isolation.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: Did you kind of picture isolation as a fear, or did you embrace it more, I guess, or did you just have to?
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: I definitely embraced it, although it was very lonely, obviously, but I embraced it because it was better than violence and abuse and all of that.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I I I retreated very young.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I was, yeah, I was frightened, I think, by people generally and the world because I knew very little of it.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um except for what you know, glimpses I'd seen through kind of cousins and I just had lived quite trapped in this insane world from the whole time I was growing up.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I had very little other referen other reference points.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: So it was all quite scary.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: The world generally was quite scary.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so could you touch a little bit then on on your education as a child, like what kind of schools you were attending and kind of how the your home life affected that, because I feel like that have to be kind of kind of daunting.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: Not only daunting, but I think I I really accounted I'd been to nearly 30 schools by the time I got out of school.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my goodness.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't attend very often or very regularly because I just it just my world was it wasn't allowed, really.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: So um yeah, I didn't really start going to school properly till I was about twelve.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I was horrifically behind the other and I really struggled to relate to them, obviously, because I had such a different experience of life at that point.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't understand where they were coming from, and they certainly didn't understand where I was coming from.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: So that was very, again, very isolating, and I was marked out as a freak very early on.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because I simply couldn't connect and I didn't know all the the social rules and things people learn going to school.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, that took quite a long time to figure out.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I can't even imagine.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so would you say that was a part of you maybe jealous that they, you know, maybe had a a a light or um things at their disposal that you didn't, or did you just kind of retreat and do your own thing?
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: Or could you just kind of touch on kind of that juxtaposition?
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: I would say a little bit of both.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: I I absolutely was I was amazed at how beautiful their lives looked, you know, just how many things they had, the clothes and and objects.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like they they came to school with rucksacks, and there were things in the rucksacks, and you know, they had food for lunch, and you know, there they seemed to be living extraordinary lives that looked nothing like mine.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so, yes, there was certainly a sense of why why is everyone else like that and my life like this?
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: Certainly I have but also I had such a rich inner world.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: I had developed such a deep uh relationship to myself and a rich sense of things inside myself.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't I don't think I was completely um I don't know what's the word, I bereft.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: I I I did feel I had resources, but they were all inside of me.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: I just wished I think I had more material means to express more of what was going on inside of me um that and have access to things like I don't know, extracurricular activities or or whatever, you know.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: So I I do want to get into now kind of how that relates to music or when music started for you.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because you you mentioned maybe lack of extracurricular.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: So when did you actually like first get exposed to music, or you thought maybe like, oh my god, music is awesome?
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, because you you know you talked about so much about your drawing and your uh your papers and your glues and stuff I can't even imagine doing.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, so just talk about maybe your first musical experience then.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's that's a really hard one because I growing up I didn't hear much music.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't have access.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: This was before everybody had a phone with access to music and or YouTube and all of that.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: So you couldn't just have access to music.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, we we just had no money, so there was no nothing to play the music on.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um and also I had um it's called complex PTSD, so a lot of trauma, basically, and I struggled to how to explain it.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: It was very sensitive to to stimulation sounds that probably blocked a lot out that I would have heard.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um but it wasn't until I got to university um that I actually accessed music and it was all through a back door.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: It looked nothing like a musician's path.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: I met a drummer um while I was studying philosophy and I was fascinated by his coordination.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: He could get both hands and legs going all at the same time.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: I was just that was what what I what I was seeing.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't really hearing the music properly or looking at the band or any of that.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: I was just fascinated but physically do because I was quite dyspraxic.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um I was struggling I would struggle to get from one end of a room to another without injuring myself or nothing's whenever my coordination was terrible.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: I was slightly outside of my body most of the time.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: But I asked him to teach me um drum rudiments, like how to tap.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: How do you do that?
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: So he taught me snare how to how to do drum rudiments, and so I started tapping and counting, and it just changed my brain.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: It seemed to rewire something in my brain, and it was a doorway into music, which I still couldn't hear properly yet, because it was like a foreign language.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'd had a little bit of exposure to some classical and jazz that people played, a little bit I would have heard the smattering of pop and that sort of thing in shops, things like that, but it I wouldn't have registered it in the way that a normal kid would have.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: I came at it with with like neurological damage for a reason then.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: But the the drumming healed a lot of that.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: It it it absolutely rewired the way my brain worked and my coordination improved dramatically, my focus improved, my whole nervous system was a lot calm.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, that was my way in.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_02: That is, I don't even know if interesting is the right word because I actually watched um the Trop or sorry, excuse me, the Travis Barker documentary.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, who Travis Barker's the drummer for Blink 182.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_02: And like the way he drums and the coordination and like the things he does, it almost looks like he's doing like a workout on the drums.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like, and so I'm kind of uh definitely it's just one of those instruments I could never do.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like I guess I played the piano, so you're doing two things at once, but I could never get the foot and the arm in the hands different things.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: It was just persistence, and I was pretty determined so.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: But if I could do it, honestly, anybody can't with enough focus.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's it's super interesting too, because I mean the drums are a very focal point to any musical arrangement or percussion in general, but it doesn't really have like a note per se, or like a harmony or a melody or anything like that, but it has the beat, it has the rhythm, and I mean a lot of people even say like the soul, like so.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: I guess could you just kind of talk about that part?
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like when you hear a drum beat, like you actually feel the drum beat.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: So, did you have any sort of kind of sensory experience with that?
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, at first it was a completely intellectual exercise.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: I was very sort of cut off in my body just from the trauma.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: I was out of my body most of the time.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: So it was accounting, and I'd write things out to play parts.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: I wrote it all down.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like what anybody does that.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: But so I it took a while for that to become a physical thing that I could physically move to in time to rhythmically, like a normal person would.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I again that was a consequence of engaging with it.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: I it just took time for that rewiring to happen for me.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then once I once I got it in my body, it's like, oh my god, it just opened up a whole world of connecting myself physically, but also to other people, right?
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: So if you can do that, you can work in a band, right?
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: If you can feel what's going on, you can work in a band.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: Although as a drummer, I worked in loads of bands and they were dreadful anyway, but I was dreadful.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: Really must have been awful, because I had no sense of the obvious place for things.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I remember them saying one band turning around going, Would you just put that crash in the obvious place?
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: And it was utterly mystifying to me.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: That crash could go anywhere in a 16-beat measure, right?
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: It could go anywhere.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't obvious at all because I didn't have enough experience with music, with other people's music to know what obvious was.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: So it was like an alien playing drums.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: I actually that break I can't even put it into words, but I know exactly what you're saying.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like, why don't you just put the crash here?
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: Or it's like the equivalent of why are you ending this song on an A minor that or on an A flat that sounds ridiculous?
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like, why are you doing that?
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: But when you don't have that, I mean, you don't know what it is supposed to sound like.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_02: So you're like, it's not obvious to me.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I thought that that is so cool because I'm just picturing or listening to the American national anthem.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: And because we have the the huge crash symbols at like certain points, and I'm just kind of picturing you up there like crashing at like the exact wrong point of the oh man.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: But so you've also got to uh not skip over the philosophy part.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_02: So that is what you actually went to uh to university for.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_02: So could you talk a little bit about that?
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: Because that's a very, very um deep path to go into, and I would love to hear a little bit about it.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I it was amazing I got to university at all because I didn't really have to.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I was gonna say, I don't even know how you got to university.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I I was struggling to catch up with the other kids, and I worked extremely hard because I realized education was a way out for me.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't end up like my parents.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: I could escape if I focused and worked hard.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: That was the idea anyway.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then at at high school it was quite dramatic, and um my I was escorted off campus by the police because of my some of my father's drug dealings, and it was it suddenly everybody kind of knew the circumstances I was in were quite bleak and difficult.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: And at the same time I'd won a chess championship.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: So it was a weird juxtaposition that a teacher became aware of.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: And he he sort of took a liking to me and said, You could actually get to university if we approach it in the right way and get scholarships to go.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: And as soon as I heard that, I thought, I could go to university.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: Whoa, right?
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I got my head down and I did the applications and none of it like I wouldn't have been able to do like biology or or anything that required a lot or mathematics, something that required a lot of previous education.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I went for philosophy because it involved using your intellect and thinking about things and problem solving and and all of that and using words, which I was absolutely obsessed with.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: I love words.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: So so yeah, that was a really natural choice for me.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and probably really frankly, the only thing I could have studied legitimately at university.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: That's incredible.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's um in you described it perfectly as well, because I mean, you probably as a child, I mean, you were your own philosophy in a sense.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I mean, you really were.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um no, I just think that's incredible, and just that work ethic that you showed, like you said, to do that is it's really awesome.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: So very the consequences of not doing it, right?
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: I I felt I was destined to end up either dead on drugs or in a mental institution.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I just thought I have to do the opposite, I have to do exactly what my didn't do.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: So it's extremely motivating.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: No, like yeah, as you said, that just it's beautiful because it could have been so easy for someone your age around that to just just do that because that's you know what you saw.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it could have been so easy, and nine nine out of ten people probably do do do that.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I love that.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so we got the drums down, and I assume you got a little better than crap at drums and started putting the crash at the right places.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I started to understand, and I started to understand how the instruments work together.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: That that was really important to me.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: Try to so when I grasped that, that was that was better.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then I realized um all the like most advanced lyrics were absolutely dreadful.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: So writing lyrics for them because I just thought, my god, if I have to sit here at the back and do all the physical craft, it might as well be a good tune, right?
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I started so then I I suddenly found myself writing lyrics but playing drums is very awkward because there's no melodic link, right?
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: So that's when I write and I realized that I had a lot to say.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't I didn't realize how much was in me.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then when I started writing lyrics, it was like, my god, there's not enough room for all of this that is burning to come out.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so I realized I was going to have to invent a different way of writing because the way they wanted me to write made very tight um structures that were popular, you know, popular music is usually a tight formulaic structure.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I just couldn't fit in it, I just couldn't say what I needed to say in that space, so I kind of grasped, oh my god, I'm gonna have to learn um uh how to use another instrument.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I taught myself guitar and then piano so I could just so I could write.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: So cool because you're really right be when I I think about songwriting, and I would be a horrible, horrible lyricist, but I I I love writing.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I mean, I've written a a short novel, I I love writing poetry.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um well in that case, it may not be well, but but you're a little bit right though on the structure because a a typical song, I guess I'll say, you know, you have intro, uh, verse, chorus, then a bridge, and then chorus.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_02: And if it's a pop song on the radio, then it's just chorus, chorus, chorus, chorus, chorus.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that structure's not a problem, but it's the the small narrow window of other structures inside of that.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: That it it just the whole thing starts to feel really bound, and it's difficult to say anything original or interesting or that you think or feel.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because life isn't shaped like that for me.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: Far more complex, nuanced, and yeah, than than normal song structure allows.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I had to write in a completely different way to say what I needed to say.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_02: That's I can't even find the adjective to describe it because I never really thought of it that way.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_02: So I'll just I'll just use groovy because I haven't used that word yet.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: But um, so let's geek out a little on music a little bit more, because anytime I have the chance to talk to someone as musically talented as you, I have to geek out about music.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, so I started with the piano when I was probably six or seven.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: So that was my first instrument.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: And then there was a the way our school system works is you start band class in fifth grade.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'm like, I really want to play, you know, maybe like the saxophone because it looks cool or something like that.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, my mom goes in the closet or the basement, whatever it was, gets a box about probably about like this big, kind of like a briefcase-looking thing.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, I don't think he could fit a saxophone in that.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: And she pulls it out.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: It was her high school clarinet.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: Oh.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: So I grew up playing the clarinet in band.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I clarinet and piano.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: So that was kind of my origins.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_02: So the way I see music is kind of through that.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I like I see the piano, and I have a great quote from a really talented pianist named Johnny Manchild.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: And he's like, When I sit down at the piano, I can see an entire organization.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Orchestra at my fingertips.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I just kind of wanted to get your thoughts on that because when I hear that, I know exactly like what he means.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_02: So could you maybe speak on that a little bit?
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I suppose I've done enough arrangement of my own music to relate to that.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um are you asking me how I see the piano?
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, how do you see the piano?
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh um I'm definitely not classically trained or anything, but I under, you know, I use it, I can see the bass lines, which you can translate to cellos and and uh double basses, and I can see the upper uh motifs that you can translate to higher strings and guitar parts, and yes, I I guess I do.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: I see I see the piano as sort of an orchestra in reduction, right?
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: So all the parts smashed down into one instrument, and it sounds I mean it's beautiful on its own piano, but limited in so far as I mean, unless you're, you know, an extraordinary pianist and you can make it do incredible things, which I'm definitely not.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: For me, I I have to translate what I've written on piano to multiple instruments in different registers to hear the complexity of what I've written and the VC of what I've written.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_02: I like that.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: I like that a lot, actually.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm going to get a little a little deep now.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_02: So you're kind of at the the birth of your musical journey.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I guess how does Ember Honey come about?
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, maybe what does the name mean to you, where it came from?
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_02: Because we'll kind of delve into that as well a little bit later.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_02: But when did you know Ember Honey start becoming a thing?
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I suppose really it the very first band I ever put together with myself as the singer songwriter.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: I just named it Ember Honey.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I remember my uh drummer and my guitarist were all struggling to find a name to call the musical proposition.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, eventually I found Ember Honey, and it i it had meaning at the time and still does, and it was something creating something beautiful out of something burnt and twisted.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: So it was that jucition of dark and light, which I think is it's alchemical in a sense.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: My approach to songwriting and music is alchemical.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: Drawing on a very dark well, but I try to bring it to the light of consciousness and transmute a lot of it into harmony and beauty, even if there's darkness in there.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost a gothic aesthetic, but just because it echoes and resonates with that, not deliberately.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_02: So that makes a lot of sense, actually.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: And what sort of I guess just in your situation, just the the pride you must have felt to you know get to the point where you can, you know, release something, you know, under this moniker that is exactly as you described, coming kind of from that dark place and making something beautiful out of it.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: And how do you continue to kind of channel that without plateauing, I guess?
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_02: Does that make sense?
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I would say one, the well is so deep and wide, I was exposed to a lot of experiences from a very early age.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: And a very I lived so much life very early on.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: So that's to draw on.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but also I continue constantly developing musically.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: So recently, um, well, in the last few years, I taught them for music production, so I can record and produce my own sounds.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: And in doing that, aside from playing multiple instruments, always gives you a different way in to music.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: So guitar, if you write on guitar, it sounds completely different to if you write on piano.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: It gives you different ideas.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so when I had the studio to experiment in, I had suddenly access to all of these synthbase sounds and strings and textures I I never I'd never even heard before.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a constant um conversation between where I'm at as a person and an artist, and then where I'm at with music and the tools I'm playing with or experimenting with.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: So always pushing the the boundaries and edges of what I'm capable of.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: Everything I write and everything I produce is so far beyond what I'm able to do.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: It forces me to develop quite quickly toward being able to express and embody that piece of art.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: I love that you used the word texture because I guess if you look at the word texture in a dictionary, it is something you physically, you know, would feel like the texture of this table is smooth, the texture of your coat might be fuzzy, but like the texture and sound, I can't really explain it.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_02: So could you touch more on that?
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think that's the perfect word to kind of describe your music, in my opinion, is the texture of it.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: I I guess having gone through the neurological rewiring with the drums, I suddenly realized I was exceptionally sensitive physically to sound.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like my body is really sensitive to the way textures and sounds and moments affect me and make me feel.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I I feel like I'm painting with sound.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: I it feels like I have a visceral sensation, and then I find the sound that matches that.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then often the feelings are quite nuanced and complex.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I need layers of sound to express that.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: Is that making any sense?
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_02: No, absolutely it does.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: The atmosphere of my whole life has been almost like something in a film.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: So early on it was like a horror film, and then later it's become more like a mystery, more like a spy thriller, you know, as I discover about life and myself, kind of, you know, this perpetual mission to decode the enigma of self and relationship to other, which is a big theme in my my personal work.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um the textures help me communicate things that are difficult to express in words.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: No words.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: Emotional the emotional counterpoint to the stories I'm telling with the lyrics as well.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that was so wonderfully put.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: And that is the power and the beauty of music in general.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_02: I think it I mean, we don't have to get too deep into it, but music literally saved my life.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I was to a point where I didn't care anymore.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_02: And there's a certain song that can make you feel and be like, oh my goodness, what am I doing?
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_02: I need and a a word, a simple word or phrase wouldn't have done that, but a song does.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, we talked offline again about my my recent health struggles, and I mean, music also was a huge part of getting me through that.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I don't know if there's a word for it, but music always has this way of like you listen to a song and you can picture exactly where you were when you first heard it or when it resonated with you.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_02: You you smell what you smelled when you listen to the song.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_02: You I can't even explain it.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_02: So it's almost funny I can't listen to some songs now because I actually it brings me back to the hospital.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_02: So I like I smell the hospital and I feel you know the tubes in my arms, and I see myself in the mirror looking like a gaunt skeleton, but it goes to show just how powerful you know all of the layers and the textures of music are.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_02: So I can relate to that 100%.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_02: And certainly.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, sorry, can you say that again?
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: They transport you.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yes.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: And they can transport you back in time or forward in time, or just simply outside, you know, the the limitations that are present in front of you.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: I feel in my own work I'm always trying to do, trying to um create an alternative to the limitations I encounter, the circumstantial limitations.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: This music has has the capacity to lift us up out of the cage of our own minds and sometimes our bodies.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: Oh man.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: I can tell why you probably were a very good philosophy student, that's for sure.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um I I I want to switch directions just a little bit.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_02: So uh before in our communication before we started chatting, I remember a line.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: Where did it go?
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you were working with Michigan and you called it, I think you called it billable chaos management.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_02: Is I believe what you called it, but um so could you describe what you and Michigan are are kind of doing with and explain to the audience what you and her uh are doing over there because billable chaos management, like I emailed you, sounds pretty interesting.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it would it was a billable chaos management with a surreal focus on music.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: That's right, yep.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um Mishkin and I are teaching workshops on songwriting to people in addiction recovery.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: So obviously they have perhaps uh emotional issues, and you know, everybody's in a very different place.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: And it and even if even if people weren't dealing with uh uh what should you call it, regul emotional regulation issue.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: If you get a group of people in a room with a bunch of inst musical instruments, you're going to get chaos.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's loud, noisy, and quite uh it's a ride, it's a real wild ride trying to make it flow into a productive direction so that people actually get something out of the course.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: Well, sign me up.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: I I might have to fly over.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but seriously, I resonated with that as well because uh I I attend Alcoholics Anonymous Anonymous, I can't even say it, Alcoholics Anonymous on a weekly basis.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I think as an addict, whether it's alcohol or drugs or whatever, whatever addiction you're suffering from, it is important to have a creative outlet, whatever that is.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't have to be music, it can be art, it can be writing, it can be, or you can get like really spiritual and into faith and things like that, but you need some sort of grounding force, as we've described, to kind of escape and kind of blossom, I think.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: So that's why I just thought it was so incredible uh working with those people because it is so difficult as an addict sometimes to stay positive about yourself and be like, I can make things that are beautiful still.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_02: Because you're I I just think that's what I think personally.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_02: So I I just love that so much.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: And the beaming faces of people that attend the courses is just really heartwarming, and you realize how profound music is as a healing agent.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but creativity in general, right?
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's when you are able to draw something creative out of another human being, it's it's quite an amazing experience.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_02: It definitely is.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I might have to pick your brain offline on some advice because uh because as I mentioned, I wrote a book and it's about it's about it's kind of like Harry Potter.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's not a ripoff of Harry Potter, but it's kind of like Harry Potter, where the kid, uh, he's super musical, kind of dorky, doesn't know where he is, and he gets accepted into this musical school that he's never heard of.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_02: And like he goes there and he just falls in love with music and he realizes kind of the power of music and things like that.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so, anyways, I'll be presenting my book and music together to a group of elementary school students coming up.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay, okay.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_02: So I need to come across figure something out there.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_02: Uh but yeah, I I just think I wanted to get your opinion on kind of just like creativity in schools as well, because it's so important.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I know, you know, your case was a little was a little difficult since you were, you know, dealing with what you were dealing with, but just talk about you know why that's so important to have that outlet at such a young age as well.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_02: Because I mean, you did it, but you kind of did that on your own.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: You didn't have someone saying, you know, here's art class, take art class, like you just did it.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_02: But why is that so important for a for a young person to to explore their creative self?
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like the creative self is the true self, most fundamental level of our human being.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: Creativity is critical.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: And if we lose that connection, which often in schools people seem to because the focus is entirely on the kind of left-frame, linear uh vocational activities, right?
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: Things that are going to get you a paid job.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: And you're allowed, it seems, as a child, to be painting and drawing and doing all manner of creative things.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then at a certain point, you've got to stop doing all of that as if it's childish nonsense and move on to a more sensible path, right?
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I I think that's where a lot of people are really cut off from their true selves, their true identity, their true natural expression in the world.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: So if you you know, if you don't get to do that as a child, it's extremely difficult to start doing any of that as an adult.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I mean, I I know having started music so so late compared to most people, it's very difficult to do it.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: But it it's not impossible.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I absolutely am the embodiment of what is possible and stuff.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um but yes, so I mean it's it's obvious to me, like as obvious as the nose on my face, that creativity is uh really important for young people.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: Not just you know, uh it's not an optional extra.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think all of that uh is partly a consequence of a secular culture where the concepts around spirituality and your soul and the voice or expression of the soul in the world are considered moot.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: That it's just that's really arcane language.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: We don't speak about that anymore.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: But music and people who perform on stage particularly, I think is the kind of replacement for the kind for that.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're like priests, right?
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: That role that the original kind of priests would have sung and danced and helped their tribes kind of process their emotions and connect to something bigger than themselves, right?
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what music does now.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I suppose I've got I could talk on that subject endlessly, but well I I I I would definitely like to hear more because it yeah, it's so I don't know.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes I feel like in society, and I don't know if it's just me feeling that way, but it's like you can either be I don't know, it's like you could either be creative or you can be an accountant, but like I'm both.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like I can be an accountant and do all the dorky math stuff, but at the end of the day, I like to play music, I like to listen to music, I like to read, I like to write, and like it doesn't have to be one or the other.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like kind of what you were talking about in school, it's like, all right, you had your 10 minutes or your whatever, your one hour of art class, now we're gonna spend the rest of the day on why this cell of a frog is the way it is.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like right.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think all of us have creativity in some ways, even accountants.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: I I think that's a well-balanced human being, someone who's able to use both sides of their brain, ideally, together to to bring something into the world that otherwise wouldn't exist without them.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: I know it when when you say creativity, it doesn't it could be in accounting, right?
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: There's lots of creative accountants working big national corporates companies, right, where they don't have to pay taxes.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: So there's no kind of creativity involved in any direction of the world.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: But I I think the way that we cut children off from their own natural creative expression in order to, you know, um guide them toward what we think is a more optimal future is such a disservice to most people.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_02: So I kind of want to stay on.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_02: We talked so much about you know aesthetic and texture and things like that.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just so evident in everything from your website to where you're sitting right now, what you're wearing.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_02: But it's what I love about it is it's so authentic.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's not I'm not trying to it's it's not a shtick, is like a word we we use.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's not at all.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_02: It is so real.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I guess really my question is why is that so important to you?
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_02: Or I guess the better question is what kind of drew you to that aesthetic, I guess maybe is the better question.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think I I like I said much earlier, there's I have a natural view of the kind of gothic aesthetic in in so insofar as it aligns with a certain philosophy of life.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think every musical genre has a philosophy behind it.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: So you could say punk is like the world is rubbish and fuck you, right?
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: The gothic aesthetic would be the world is rubbish, but there's beauty.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: We can find the beauty, we can create beauty, we can see beauty in nature, all of that.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: So embracing the darkness, embracing the fucked upness of it all, but but actually trying to bring beauty into the picture.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I just naturally resonate with that direction, but I'm also clearly a little bit academic and I love ideas and sort of a kind of dark academic aesthetic also suits me.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm also I'm also very uh fascinated by film and film music.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: So and I love um detective movies and film noir and things like that.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I can and I can see that the way that my music is sounding lately is very cinematic.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I'm something is emerging through me, which is about fusing together all of these apparently disparate elements, uh the music and the visual art.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: So directing and editing my own uh music videos that don't really look like a normal music video.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_00: Something emerging through me.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's not really intentional, and I'm just watching it fascinated, going, oh right, that's where that's going.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's where that piece lives.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: All of the I'm naturally very visual and see.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: And everything I look at, I want to make beauty.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: I can't help myself.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's like this overpowering, overwhelming urge.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to create beauty everywhere I look, so everything ends up looking like that.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_02: No, I that's so amazing, and I'm gonna I want to tie that into music even further because I attempt to know my music theory.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_02: I can definitely be better at it.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_02: But there are the, I think there's is it seven different modes of music.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I don't know them off the top of my head, but like each mode you can use, and it almost can be like associated with a genre of music.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like I was dorking around with one, and I'm like, oh my god, that's the Pirates of the Caribbean, and like it's dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_02: And like then you can go, like, I was listening to some Georgia Train stuff, and I'm it just and that was in a different mode, and it's just that's why I love music so much.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_02: I can pick a like a genre and play it based on like theory, if that makes sense.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know, it's just that's why I think I love diving into the theory more as an adult or as a kid.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I don't care if this is in a minor, or I don't care that this is a diminished seventh.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_02: But now that I'm an adult, I'm like, oh, that's why that needs to be a diminished seventh.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_02: So I do feel like that.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's fascinating, isn't it?
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: You need you need to know a little bit of theory to paint the picture you want to paint, don't you?
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: Oh I need to how do I create that feeling?
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: How do I create that story underneath the lyric?
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: How do I create that vibe?
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_00: Well, sometimes you can do it just by ear and copying people.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: In my own case, I've I've spent a lot of time at the piano and kind of learning and understanding how things relate to each other and try to to learn as much theory as I can.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: And not, you know, I don't think I'm the best at it, but I know enough to create what I want to create.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then if I don't know, I study.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_02: So cool.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I do want to talk about your Patreon, and I'm not even gonna preface it with anything, I'm just gonna give you the floor to talk about your Patreon because it's pretty freaking cool.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_02: So just just just talk about it for our listeners so they can subscribe and see what you've all got going up there.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um well I I suppose Patreon is the place where I feel like I can be most myself and I can I communicate in a lot of depth um behind the scenes to my patrons because obviously it doesn't really work on social media to talk about deep, meaningful things.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: You need a 15 second soundbite.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_00: I can't express what I need to express in such a short space.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I create uh what I call newsletters um and I talk about very intimate, candid things um that I think others might relate to.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't just talk about myself.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_00: I try to put together pieces that I think will inspire people or give them an insight into things that could be helpful.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_00: But obviously also I share a lot behind the scenes my process when I'm recording and writing and that sort of thing.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah I think it's a really powerful behind the scenes glimpse into my world.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah and I everyone you've got to do that because I think it's so genuine and authentic and important as a fan to see kind of the behind the scenes stuff like the recording.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_02: Because the casual person will just open their Spotify they'll press play and they hear the song and they're like okay that's pretty cool.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_02: I like it.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_02: But when you have that engagement it makes the song just so much more powerful and to me one of the reasons I you know pick people like you is that you can have conversations like this and engage and talk about things outside of music even as well.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_02: So it's just so cool to be able to do that.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: It gives it more it gives them a a piece of work uh music more context doesn't it and you start to understand where the artist is coming from.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_00: And in my own case most people don't realize I actually do all of it.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: I write all the lyrics I play all the parts I record them I produce them I release them and then I direct and edit the music videos and most people have no idea I do that.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_00: So it's helpful to be able to communicate that and show glimpses of here's how I here's how I plan that um music video here's here's what I went through to do that.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: It makes it so much more fun for me as well and much less isolating.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I can connect to people about and it does make it it's it's quite hard doing it all on my own.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's not never been my plan.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_00: Just somehow end up completely isolated creating all of this.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: And hopefully that's not going to be the case in the future but it's finding the right people to work with.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_02: So uh yeah and definitely I'll put the link to that in in the episode because thank you.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's so it's just so awesome and it's especially in today's day and age I've had this conversation so many times it's like a broken record but I get so sick of like the radio like I can't even turn the radio on because the it's just so shallow it's so overproduced it's so yeah formulaic and I I I feel the same it's very it's very distressing isn't it you think where did all the real music go?
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_00: Where did it go?
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_02: So it just yeah I think refreshing is the best word because it actually makes you feel something real.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's a a computer didn't tell me to do that.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah and an algorithm didn't direct and yeah absolutely it it if you I think if you do create authentic work that comes from deep inside people there are people that will feel that they will know the difference but it depends on where their level of consciousness is right you're obviously quite a deep thinker and you contemplate things and you know you're living your life at a generally deeper level than a lot of people have time for even if they have explanation so yeah I I think sometimes it feels frustrating because when you do something as different as I do, people when they first encounter it have no idea where to put it what box does that go in who are you trying to be like what are your influences like you know I'm not trying to be like anyone and I'm not fitting in a box.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: And that makes it very difficult to for people sometimes to engage with the work because they they don't want to even try it until they know what box to put you in.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's really sad.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: But then there's you know my my patrons and the genuine fans of my work they they like it they like that fact that you can't put a box and it it is coming from a genuine place.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_02: So I yeah I mean I I'm it's just a loss for words because I disagree 100% so much.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_02: Oh so I think what we're gonna do is I'm gonna take a quick two second breather I can edit this out and then we're gonna have a little bit of fun with a couple segments that are completely nothing to do with recording or well some do have music in them but just complete fun.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_02: Are you a big foodie?
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_00: Do you like do you do you like food cooking eating or are you kind of just like whatever yeah I'm just I'm just like athlete survival generally whatever's the quickest and most nutritious so I I aim for that yeah okay I'll keep that in mind and then uh have you toured in the states I don't know if I've asked you that in the states no have you been to the states though uh yeah I was born in the states I didn't I was born in the states yeah where yeah in um Seattle I was born in California but I grew up mostly in and out of foster care and such in Seattle oh okay yeah so I didn't even know that yeah well I d I mean I s I feel quite um anglicized at this point so I've I mean you've got the at the the accent because I'm just like there's I guess I just assumed so shame on me but okay let's get get back focused and are we still good on time I think we're yeah it's it's 20 past eight I think we're oh sorry my time yeah okay let's see it's just such a wild day my parents are coming I'm so excited okay all right everyone we are back and we're gonna do a couple fun segments here with Taylor um I still haven't decided what I'm gonna call it yet but we're just gonna call it rapid fire nonsense whatever we end up talking about so uh you were hosting a dream dinner party oh okay uh it can be catered we don't have to worry about that it can be catered or whatever or order pizza it doesn't matter but you can invite three people living or dead what three people are you choosing oh that's so difficult um I suppose let's see I'd probably invite Alan Watts who is a very amazing spiritual teacher he's no longer with us but he's got the most beautiful voice in the world if you've ever heard him speak.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_02: And then musically Oh this is too difficult Perhaps a film composer maybe uh maybe Danny Elfman he'd be fun oh okay Danny Elfman would be fun um and then perhaps a thinker who would I invite as a thinker oh that's too difficult wow I really can't I feel like I want to draw from different aspects of my life um I really honestly I can't think that's okay we can leave the fourth chair uh empty or you could just pick me I could be the fourth too yeah I I it may come to me anyway that's okay that's why I love that question because you can go so many different directions my brain is tied in not trying to choose and be decisive.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_02: I love it it just says so much about a person when because immediately like you didn't know but you did know subconsciously like the types of people you wanted at your table which I thought was really cool.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um so we've got your dinner party is in the works I wouldn't send the invitations out yet but we'll get there.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so we're gonna do some some British isms as I guess is what I will call them.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_02: I did this with Michigan and I kind of got in trouble because I didn't know what a Fanny was so I have to be to be very careful about about I was so embarrassed but um so what are because now that I've learned you lived in both the states and the UK so what are some of just the silliest obscure words or phrases that Brits use?
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_02: Oh that is too difficult to answer off the top of my head um just you know prompt me with something because I just I can't pull that out of thin air it's to me when I hear so I was talking with Ollie and he was like can I go have a pee?
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like You say instead you we take a pee we don't have a pee okay yeah I can I guess I I hear both and they both sound right but it's because I've lived in both places probably so I'm just like what does that mean?
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_02: And then I think the the weirdest one for me is it's uh mince you call it mince is that meat or can it be fruit or like I always hear mince or mince meat and I get really confused.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah I do you know what I I don't actually know I I think it's I think it's a fruit thing of um that's what I think but you can have mince meat as well I think mince is to do the texture like so you could mince anything can't you right your words you can so take something and make it put it um grind it into really small pieces and then it's a sort of uh you can put it inside things that that's my understanding interesting if I've clarified or not but that's what I think mince mints could be anything for sweet.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_02: Well doesn't obviously you've seen Sweeney Todd right yes okay so the I forget her name but Helena Bottom Carter plays the character and she makes the pies doesn't she make mincemeat pies?
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_00: Meat pies yeah it's the best poise in London I'm vegan for the most part so is Michigan and I kept doing all these questions about meat and she's like I'm vegan and I'm like sorry but uh so this is my my favorite question because it also says so much about a person so um you are going to be or going to be in not in a biopic but they're going to make a biopic about you and your life yeah so we have to decide which actress is playing you okay um yeah so I suppose the first thing would be trying to find someone looks a bit like you right that's yeah so I it's gonna it's gonna be good because I'm gonna pick one as well so pick one as well okay someone who looks like um someone described me as Corella de Ville once so because I'm angular but I don't um Edward Sesar um I I think I look a little like her people have said I look like her um oh hold on how do I not think of her name off the top of my head that's like one of my favorite movies I have an Edward scissor hands shirt and I wore it the other day.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah also Edwards um sorry what was it Stranger Things she's in that oh Winona Ryder that's it yeah Winona Ryder a little bit like her okay I've got the picture uh I could see it I could definitely see it something little a little bit there yeah I love Winona Ryder too she's she's fantastic yeah she'd be amazing actually and then you could have been partners with Johnny Depp for four years fictionally wow right so I thought gosh if that's who you want to go with I agree do you have uh yeah what would be your alternatives I'm curious about that oh my gosh well I was trying to find someone British actually um and then you said Edward scissor hands and I immediately forgot what I was doing because that movie is gold I know yeah well before before I do that I well I'm trying to think of this guess who we picked for Michigan in Michigan oh I can what's her name I can see the actress because I've seen her before and thought she looks a lot like Michigan um oh god um she's really really blonde and not a great game for me is it what who did you choose it was Emma Stone it's Emma Stone okay and uh uh because we were talking about the movie her most recent movie um Begonia have you seen begonia oh my gosh it will be right up your alley I guarantee it you need to watch it and she's in it and she's absolutely incredible um who am I gosh see I think Winona Ryder is so good now I can't I think it's really alternative I look like I might just have to I might just have to forfeit and just agree.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_02: I think I'm going to because yeah that that fits very well she's just incredible too and in Stranger Things she's so good.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_02: I just yeah I love that thing um so we got who's playing you in your biopic you can be fictionally married to Johnny Depp.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's perfect.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_02: But um yeah so before we sign off I really we talked about your Patreon and things like that but how can listeners really support you?
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um and it doesn't have to be financially obviously that's important because you know it's your livelihood but because to me just sitting there and clicking play on Spotify doesn't do it.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_02: You have to go above and beyond.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_02: So how can people really support you?
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah the the easiest way is to share share tracks or share music videos with friends I just found this cool artist.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_00: I really love this song or I love this video.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know th those sorts of things it seems so small and insignificant but it really does matter that you know the word of mouth because it's a sea of uh of music isn't it it's absolutely saturated especially with AI chipping in now and it's just fluttered.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's very difficult to navigate your way through that to discover new art especially when artists are like me independent and not backed by a record label.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_00: You won't see me being written about in a magazine or anything like that.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_02: If you do find it by some amazing miracle sharing it is absolutely the best way um to do that to help to support yeah well uh and check out everyone listening check out our website too because it's really cool like I talked about the theme and everything and the music video I think I'm really excited to watch a couple more of those because I don't know if I just like lost it the past decade but I completely like forgot about music videos.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know why.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_00: In a way a lovely thing to hear because so many people don't engage with music without a video.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_00: So it's lovely to know that people are actually listening to music.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah I don't know I was huge into music videos more like when I was like a teenager but because I know uh Mishkin's really proud of hers and they're awesome and I've seen a couple of yours and they're awesome and I it really helps connect a visual to the sound.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean the sound itself is beautiful but I like the music video because that's how you want it to to kind of portray the song I think of control over that because I I get to um direct and edit them.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I I it it's another work of art from my point of view.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_00: Instead of if it's a like something for a commercial record label the video is just a marketing tool.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_00: So if you have a sexy artist in front of the camera doesn't really matter what else is going on you know or for a big budget one you can make it exciting but on the whole it's seen as marketing um whereas mine I tend to treat like works of art so I I put a lot into them.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah there's more of my artistry available in a music video because it's music and and visuals.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_00: Not to not that's not to say that the music doesn't stand up without the video.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah well I Taylor I can't thank you enough you've been so candid and so genuine and authentic I run out of superlatives and uh we we made it through timing issues I I did we didn't know what daylight savings time was doing.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so just thank you so much for being here I can't wait to to share this with my audience and for you to to share it with yours as well because I had a ton of fun I hope you did as well so I really did thank you so much you're a wonderful thank you for the thoughtful questions um yeah obviously thoughtful um how to how to bring some something interesting out of a out of someone you're interviewing it's fantastic it's I it it's so it's fun for me and that's why I love doing the podcast it's I get as much joy just talking to you for an hour.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_02: I mean that's to be quite frank I get so much enjoyment just out of the conversation so so everyone listening go and support her her work not only her work but uh artists like her as well there are so many out there that are so talented and deserve deserve a listen and a look so uh as always take care of yourselves be kind to yourself and we'll see you on the next one with Dream of Comedy