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Finding a Way Forward After Betrayal | Tracy Hall | F*ck, I’m Nearly 50! · F*ck, I’m Nearly 50!

• 0:00
  Dominique Hind: Hi, I'm Dom hind and fuck. I'm nearly 50. Well, actually, I'm 47 and two months, and I have started the countdown. Some people go through things that sound too wild to be true. Tracy Hall is one of those people. Years ago, she was at the top of her game, killing it in marketing, bringing bold ideas to life, which is where our paths first crossed. She was working with GoDaddy on The now iconic ALF Stewart flaming hot sauce campaign. But behind the scenes, she was living through something that would stop anyone in their tracks. She was in love. She was planning a future, and then she found out the man she trusted was a con artist. Her entire world was shattered the podcast, who the hell is Hamish told the story Justin was obsessed with it. He devoured the podcast, read Tracy's book while we're away, and got me hooked on both.
• 0:56
  Dominique Hind: And ever since, has been pushing for her voice to be heard, to make sure that empowerment of women and their financial freedom is actually at the centre. I've just finished listening to Tracy's book The last victim, and I was honestly amazed. What struck me most was her resilience, her grit, to sit in the absolute shitstorm of betrayal and then pick herself up and start planning her future. What she focused on was, what's next? How do I rebuild?
• 1:26
  Dominique Hind: How do I set myself up for a better life? The way she did, that was so powerful. And the thing I loved about the book, it was so real, so brutally honest.
• 1:40
  Dominique Hind: Nothing was sugar coated, nothing was left out. And the line that absolutely floored me, and that I keep thinking about, was when Tracy said that she wrote the book from a scar and not an open wound. That idea alone has changed how I think about reacting to things, let it settle, let it heal, and then speak with strength, not pain.
• 2:01
  Dominique Hind: And honestly, after reading it, it feels like I've known Tracy forever, her voice, her perspective, her strength, it's all there on the page. And now here she is turning 50 this year, with her 50 things to do before 50, going six month alcohol free and embracing the next chapter with serious intention. Let's get into it because fuck, I'm nearly 50, and this is a conversation about owning your story, rebuilding your life and choosing to thrive you.
• 2:46
  Dominique Hind: Tracy Hall's story is one of those that stays with you. She fell in love with someone who turned out to be a serial con man. Everything she thought was true was a lie. But instead of staying stuck in the betrayal, she did something brave. She rebuilt. And Tracy, I just finished your book, the last victim. And I have to say, it absolutely blew me away, absolutely the honesty, the grit, the clarity, what stuck with me, me most was how quickly you sat in the pain and then started planning. It was absolutely amazing, and the line that hit me in the heart was when you wrote the book from a scar and not an open wound. It's such a powerful reminder to let things settle before we act or speak. It's changed how I think about my own responses to big emotions, and it's just helped me, I think definitely be better. You've now turned that pain into purpose, helping other women learn to trust themselves, protect their futures and not ignore the red flags. And as you turn 50 this year, you're embracing it with intention, with your 50 things to do, or 50 things before 50 list, and six months alcohol free, you're not just surviving. You're setting the tone for what thriving looks like. So today we're diving into it, all resilience, financial literacy, red flags, intention and reinvention and what it means to turn 50 on your terms.
• 4:33
  Dominique Hind: Tracy, welcome to fuck. I'm nearly 50.
• 4:36
  Unknown: What an intro.
• 4:38
  Dominique Hind: Wow. You deserve it. It's amazing, before we get into it, though, how would you introduce yourself in the most honest and raw Tracy way possible?
• 4:50
  Tracy Hall: Oh my gosh. Um. My name is Tracy Hall. I am a ex corporate marketing executive addict. Uh huh. Recovering, and these days, I'm an author, I'm a public speaker and I'm an advocate. That's what I do. Who I am is. I'm a single mom. I live on the beaches. I love the ocean. I have a bit of a potty mouth answer, title and yeah, I just, I just think I'm a pretty ordinary person that's had a lot of stuff happen.
• 5:30
  Dominique Hind: Yeah, okay, and I think you are. You may think that you are ordinary, but the way that you have responded is definitely not been ordinary, yeah, because most people would have just sat and you didn't.
• 5:44
  Tracy Hall: I did. I did for a while. Yeah, there are a few years where it was touch and go,
• 5:51
  Dominique Hind: yes, and you know what? Understandably so, yeah, like, I, I've tried to put myself in your position so many times, and even just trying to Yeah, feel what it was like and yeah, for you to be here, I still think is, yeah, it's amazing. Like, absolutely amazing. Appreciate that. Um, okay, so you've lived through something so confronting. And in the book, you start mapping your rebuild quickly, or, you know, you don't just sit in it and just wallow, you know you have to do something. Yeah, what helped you shift from sitting in the pain to focusing on the future? And was there a moment that sparked that change for you?
• 6:47
  Tracy Hall: Yes, there was a moment, but I think it's also important to say that there was a really long, messy middle, yeah, and I don't think you get to go through things like this and come out the other side really quickly and really positively. And actually, you know, I sometimes worry about the narrative that is presented often when you see people who have experienced adversity or trauma or whatever, and you see the end point, and you see the rebuild, and you see the strength, and you see the positivity. Quite often we don't see the bit immediately after, or that middle bit, which is messy and uncomfortable and painful and confusing and, you know, and for me, that went on for a few years. So yes, the book we had to, you know, otherwise, it would have been pretty boring. There would have been like, 15 chapters. I woke up and I cried, I went to work, I went to bed and I cried, you know, there was a lot of that, and there was a lot of soul searching and a lot of a lot of work that happened during that time to get me to a place where I could actually see a little glimmer of light, yeah? So I think it's important to say that I don't think we have these moments in life and then suddenly we're in a post, post traumatic growth, you know, inspiration moment like it just doesn't happen like that. And if it does, I call
• 8:19
  Dominique Hind: bullshit. Yeah, and I don't think you're human if you can't sit in that pain, no. And you know the pain, the definite like the the time that you're in the pain, it depends on you as a person as well, and everyone's pain or the messy middle, yeah, is different. It is.
• 8:37
  Tracy Hall: And you don't, you don't get to learn the lessons, unless you sit there, if you don't do the work, if you don't explore the feelings, if you don't go to that place, you don't rise out of it, it becomes a very superficial, unauthentic, healing journey, and everyone can see that. And you don't respond well in life. If you do that, you can cover it up for a while, but you don't respond well. So I think it's important to say that. I think it's also important to say that there were times I felt like I didn't have a choice, like it was survival.
• 9:15
  Tracy Hall: For me, I was 42 a single mother, almost solo parenting a six year old. I had a huge job that I was so scared of losing.
• 9:24
  Tracy Hall: It was my only financial lifeline. I had nothing in my bank accounts. I had no emergency fund. I had no superannuation. I had no investment portfolio. I had no shares left. I had nothing. I had a monthly income, and I had all the pressure on me at home to provide for my child and myself. And so there was a whole lot of survival in there. That was just, I just have to go to work, because if I don't work, I'm now, I'm really screwed.
• 9:53
  Tracy Hall: Yeah, I am so fucked if I don't have an income. And, you know, so there was a lot of. You know, there was a lot of external factor that got me going, and then it was sort of a few years later I had had sort of gone through that pain and that work and gone, okay, I'm 42 or by this stage, I was probably 4344 how, like, I have a whole other half of my life, yeah, live, yeah. What is the second half gonna look like? And I'd already actually been through that same thought process when I left my husband and got divorced, because it wasn't the way I wanted it to work out. It wasn't, it wasn't the ending I wanted. I wanted more children.
• 10:40
  Tracy Hall: I wanted a long term marriage, like what my parents had like. I wanted that life, that nuclear family, and didn't work out like that. And I turned 40, and I was separated from my husband, and and I thought to myself, What do I want the second half of my life to look like? And that takes a lot of thought and introspection and work it does.
• 10:58
  Tracy Hall: And so I did that once, and then this happened, and then a couple years later, had to do it again, like hopefully I've still got another half to me. Was
• 11:10
  Dominique Hind: it different?
• 11:10
  Dominique Hind: Was the your first iteration of the second half different to your iteration now?
• 11:19
  Tracy Hall: Uh, yes, of course, because I hadn't had that experience. Yeah, and what I take into this iteration is the experience of Hamish, not just the experience of my divorce, but I also take the experience of all the things that have happened to me. And I think at any point in life, whatever, whatever place we're at that forms our reality. And that is, that is the viewpoint we go ahead with, because of all the things inside us. Yeah, I'm probably more realistic now.
• 11:52
  Tracy Hall: Yeah, I Yes, it is different, but I think it's, it's, it has more strength now, because Because of this, yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 12:02
  Dominique Hind: I think, and I do think it is. It's so true that people, if they don't do the work and they distract themselves, yeah, there comes a time later where it catches up.
• 12:13
  Unknown: Oh, it always bites you now, and it absolutely
• 12:15
  Dominique Hind: and but that that if you have it like at that point, that's when it explodes.
• 12:18
  Dominique Hind: It's not just a little thing that is a like, it's monumental, yeah,
• 12:26
  Tracy Hall: and there's no, there's no right, right time, you know, if, if people need to do what they need to do. So, for example, I just had to get on with life like I had so many practical realities I had to take care of. And in some ways, they were a great distraction.
• 12:40
  Tracy Hall: Yeah, you know, children are a wonderful distraction. Work is a great distraction. It kept me focused. It kept me driven. It kept me outside of my own head and my own feelings. And for a while, that distraction was great. At some point in time you have to face the music, and there is no right time to do that. It's whatever the right time is for you. And for me, that was probably a couple of years after. And to be fair, Dominique, it's still ongoing.
• 13:10
  Tracy Hall: Oh yeah, you know, it's still, it's still something that I think, you know, I've really checked myself, yeah, from time to time, yeah,
• 13:16
  Dominique Hind: and yeah, I've and in trying to put myself in your shoes, I think you know when you get the quiet moments and when you know that's why podcasts and audio books are so great, because at times when you need them, it's not you in your head, it's someone else's voice in your head. And you know those quiet moments your brain will just go there,
• 13:43
  Tracy Hall: yeah, yeah. And that's what happened with me.
• 13:45
  Tracy Hall: Like I was so busy during the day. You know, work was really demanding. Single parenting a child is demanding. Everything was taking my time and my mind and my energy, and it was the quiet moment in the morning when I woke up and I remembered what had happened to me that us, oh, my god, okay. And then those quiet moments at night when I'm trying to sleep, they were the moments that hit me that I had to really work, work with, yeah, work around, or, you know, work through
• 14:20
  Dominique Hind: and with the because I think the going to bed at night and, you know, head hits a pillow, I'm exhausted. I really need to go to sleep, but my mind decides to wake up. Did you put like a meditation or something on to try and calm the mind? I
• 14:35
  Tracy Hall: tried everything.
• 14:35
  Tracy Hall: I've tried everything, and most of them didn't work at the time, because my mind was just, I was in such a place of fear and anxiety and depression and worry, and, you know, there was so much going on, and I had previous to that been, you know, a chronic Insomniac for about 15 or. 20 years, wow. So there had been a long, a long kind of history of really struggling with sleep. So this didn't help.
• 15:10
  Tracy Hall: This was not, this was not the Saviour I was looking for. Even though I was absolutely exhausted, I was so tired, I was so spent, I was busted. And yet, you know, then the brain kicks in when you're not distracted.
• 15:22
  Tracy Hall: And then I'm, you know, and of course, I'm going down the rabbit hole of the internet trying to find out everything there is to find out about this man. And you know what had happened. And because at this point, there were no answers, because we were still going through the criminal case, and the police wouldn't really talk to me because they couldn't, and the financial institutions could, you know, I had no answers. And it wasn't until the podcast happened two years later, which was amazing. Yeah, so good. Who the hell the same issues the podcast by the Australian and that's where the pennies started to drop. And I could put the story, you know, the jigsaw pieces of the story in the right order, which helped my mind rest, yeah? So that was a moment of instrumental healing for me. But you know that that took a few years. So, yeah, sleep. Sleep was like an elusive lover for me, for many it had, had been for many, many years.
• 16:21
  Tracy Hall: Yeah, I
• 16:22
  Dominique Hind: Yes, I can imagine. I think the hardest thing is, is when you want the answers and you can't get them like that just and it's hard to let go of
• 16:33
  Tracy Hall: that. It is because our brains don't like unfinished stories. No, we actually psychologically can't rest until we have a story, a picture, the way it fits together, that sits nicely into a compartment that makes sense to us. And so you either make up the story, which you see that happening with people, and you're like, That's not exactly how it happened, but yep, or you live in this state of ambiguity, where you cannot rest until you have the answer.
• 17:02
  Tracy Hall: And that's the state I was in because I couldn't make up the ending. I couldn't make up the story because I didn't have the information. I didn't have the knowledge, I didn't have the facts. Yeah, and so I had to wait until the podcast and that sort of investigative piece happened. And then, of course, the the criminal case, the trial, and, you know, talking to other victims like it was just a very, very long process of completing that story so that I could put that piece of my life into a compartment that made sense to me, that I could Rest, yeah, yeah, um,
• 17:40
  Dominique Hind: what advice would you give others about tuning into their instincts, especially when something feels just a little bit off?
• 17:51
  Tracy Hall: This is a hard one for me, because I fully believed that I had an incredible intuition. I felt like I could read people I felt like I knew I had this sixth sense, like I felt like intuitively I knew things that other people didn't know. I felt things that other people didn't feel. I fully believed that to be true about myself, until this happened.
• 18:16
  Tracy Hall: That's hard, though, so hard because there was not one moment where my intuition told me that this was off, wrong, weird.
• 18:30
  Tracy Hall: There was not one moment and, you know, he was a master manipulator, and that's, of course, why this happened. He created this movie, this world for me, that that all made sense now, was he quirky? Yes, he was.
• 18:42
  Tracy Hall: Were there some weird things about him? Yes, there were. But everyone, we're 40, like, everyone's a bit weird and quirky, and no one's perfect.
• 18:55
  Tracy Hall: Um, in retrospect, I can see them all, but in the moment, there was not one part of my heart, my gut, my body, that told me that this was not what it was. So that was a very difficult thing to come to terms with, and something that I've had to rebuild is that trust in my own intuition. And, you know, it's it. I've done a lot of reading and research, and it actually makes sense, because it's not, you know, your intuition can kick in when you're in a like, an empty parking, you know, car park at night and you're feeling a bit creepy or whatever, like, there are things like that that your body just feels and senses that, in the case of, you know, relationships and master manipulators, and when you're in love, Your brain is actually very, very faulty, and this reliance, or over reliance, on our intuition, is actually it's a bit of a risk, because your brain can override those things through all of the biases that we have, optimism bias, confirmation bias, similarity bias. Yes, and all of these things were happening in my world with Hamish, where my psychology was manipulated to a point where I fully believed, yeah, that it was exactly what it what it looked like. So there's been a lot of kind of academic learning around that, but then also rebuilding my own trust in in how I feel over time, but that's taken quite a bit of effort, I bet,
• 20:26
  Dominique Hind: well, even it just even in listening, because I'd listen rather than read, but even listening to the book, and you do say red flag like a lot through it, yeah, but when you're in it, like retrospectively looking back in the room mirror, you can see it, but when you're in it, when you want to believe,
• 20:46
  Tracy Hall: I'm sure it's just Ha, and when you being manipulated, and when you bring them manipulate it, yeah, exactly the red flag thing is really interesting, too.
• 20:53
  Tracy Hall: Because, yes, I do call them out, because I think there are some learnings to to be had from from looking back. But you know, often get asked, what, what were the red flags? And I'm like, mate, yeah, if they were, if it was a big red flag waving in front of my face at the time, I never would have done what I did. You know, they are beige flags at best. And I love that beige flag, yeah. And it that's exactly what it is. And I think when you kind of go, what were the red flags? Is, like, this kind of victim blaming thing going on, where you're like, well, you should have seen them, yeah, you know. And, and, you know, not just in this situation, my experience is very extreme, but with coercion in family violence and things like that, these things creep up on you. They don't come walking through your door with a big red flag no for you to see, because if they did, you'd run a million miles. Everybody would. They are things that slowly edge up on you and creep into your world and into your relationship and into your experience. And it's sort of, you know, I describe it, it's death by 1000 cups.
• 21:57
  Tracy Hall: Yeah, it's not the first cup that will kill you. No, it's the 1000 Cuts. And, you know, yes, we can learn from other people's experiences and wisdom and things like that, and that's how I describe it in the book. But it's important to know that at the time, it's very, very difficult to spot those things.
• 22:16
  Tracy Hall: Yeah, and then some people become over sensitive to spotting the red flags. We've all got girlfriends like, oh, you know, he laughs funny, which, you know, oh, you know, he doesn't talk to his mother every week. So, oh, that's a red flag. You know, there's all of this stuff that we over engineer red flags as a way not to get close to people or to spot their floors. And so I think it's a kind of an interesting conversation, just to keep a balanced view on, yeah,
• 22:46
  Dominique Hind: I do. I think the beige flags and the creeping up like that is it is something to keep in mind, because it builds like every behaviour or interaction. It builds, and then you feel comfortable with something that you wouldn't normally, and it continues to
• 23:03
  Tracy Hall: go from there or in amongst, like on their own, the behaviours are not that concerning. Yeah, when you put them all together, and this is what I found for me telling my story as well, is that when I tell this story in full, it sounds so crazy, yeah, and you have to do that, because I can't tell the story the way that it came out over 18 months, no, but I got it sentenced at a time, you know, and a sentence at a time, over time paints a picture. And when it all adds up and all, you know, you've sort of gone on that journey, and it'll it all just kind of makes sense. But if I tell the story in one big go, it seems wild and crazy, and it's like, why would you believe that he was in New York under the trade centre when the planes hit? And did you know that story came in multiple, like, instalments? And, yeah, yeah, it's, it's, and that's his psychological tactic as well.
• 24:02
  Tracy Hall: You know, he knew what he was doing absolutely.
• 24:06
  Dominique Hind: But even, even you saying that, like the six and a half or the seven hour book, yes, me listening to that is your, like, year and a half, yeah, experience, yeah, and you're right. Like to condense it down, and also you have to tell the main bit. You can't tell
• 24:22
  Tracy Hall: the boys. Yeah, no one's gonna read the boring bits. No one wants to know. But yeah, it's, it's. So it's really interesting on reflection, and it gives me perspective when other people are telling their stories and and how, how much my new shot is in there, that actually pads something out to have you believe it is what it is. But you know, when someone summarises a story, it always seems a little far fetched, and people go,
• 24:51
  Dominique Hind: why did you believe that? Yeah, you know, but time, and there's a sort of time that goes into every like, no one's gonna sit there and listen for the. Years, a month, whatever. They just want to know the give me the summary, yeah, that's it, so that they can get back to their life. Yes, I said before, something that really stayed with me was that you wrote the book from the scar rather than an open wound. And I love that, because a friend of mine was writing a book from an open wound and not the scar, and she couldn't close it down, because it was just that hurt, the pain. What mindset, or how did you actually move your mindset from that open wound to the scar?
• 25:40
  Tracy Hall: Okay, I think it was, I think the main thing is time, yeah. And I always knew, you know, after the podcast came out, I always had this thing in my mind that I like to write about it. I'd like to write a book. This was in my mind. But in those years afterwards, I didn't have the capacity to do that. I was just surviving.
• 26:02
  Tracy Hall: Yeah, and, you know, with time you get to a place you've reflected. I've done all the therapies I've really, you know, spent a lot of time thinking and reflecting and and trying to think about the experience in terms of the wisdom and insight I've gained from it. You can't do that when you're highly emotional. No, your your your brain just doesn't give you that capacity to rationally think about something and put it in a really, you know, condensed way.
• 26:36
  Tracy Hall: You're just writing from emotion. You're just reacting.
• 26:39
  Tracy Hall: You are reacting. You are reacting. And I think part of it too is my the other experiences that I've had in life, which I talk about in the first section of the book, all the things that happened before I met hain, yeah, had set me up to, you know, to to be able to withstand what happened then. But it also gave me insight that you don't feel like that forever. No. So when my dad died, when I was in my mid 20s, he was super young, 53 you know, when that first happened, the grief is so overwhelming, and that went on for years as well, and still, there are moments, yeah, grieve, yeah. You know, grieve for him, and I'm highly emotional. But what that experience taught me is that you don't feel that intensity and that acute experience of emotion forever, it changes. It goes up and it goes down. And, you know, I can reflect on that period of my life with, you know, 25 years in between, with a level of, you know, wisdom and insight and grace. And it doesn't mean that I don't feel grief. It's just I look at it differently. And I because of that experience and other experiences I've had. I knew that with time it would become clear, I guess. And sometimes you just have to give yourself time, yeah,
• 28:08
  Dominique Hind: I think that is, there's a this great meditation that is this too shall pass. Oh, yeah, and it's, it's four and a half minutes, but like, as soon as, like, something comes up, and you just need a mind reset, this too shall pass. And it's something that my friend and I always say to each other, when you're stuck in the shit, yeah, in that little time it will pass, yeah. And you're in the centre of a storm, yeah. And
• 28:32
  Tracy Hall: sometimes just sleeping on it, you process emotions when you sleep properly. I've worked, um, who would have thought, um, you Yeah, there's, there's an ability to think differently that, you know, often when something big happens, or, you know, you're saying, my girlfriend will say, No, my daughter will be Oh, I'm really upset about this. I'm like, Okay, let's just have a good night's sleep tonight, and let's revisit it in the morning, because everything feels different after you've had a great state
• 29:01
  Dominique Hind: to us, I don't know, and getting to bed at an early time, rather than like just going, Oh, just do a little bit more. No, you got to get to bed. Yep,
• 29:10
  Tracy Hall: an hour before midnight is worth two after Yes.
• 29:13
  Tracy Hall: So, okay, good. The more hours you can get before midnight, the better. Good, because I'm
• 29:17
  Dominique Hind: up very soon after midnight. How did you this? Reason why the question, but one of the things that everyone talks about is doing the work. What does doing the work actually mean for you? Is it facing it or is it just sitting in it? I
• 29:38
  Tracy Hall: think it's a combination of both. It is like, for me, there was one thing that I was working with my mindset coach on, and it was, you know, bracing myself. Like, oh, just gotta, gotta armour up here. And I've just gotta, you know, do I brace or do I embrace? And.
• 29:57
  Tracy Hall: Embracing is a really tough, closed feeling, and they also tend like everything's tense and it's like, I'm going to I'm particularly myself, and I'm not safe, and I'm anxious and all of these things. And embracing is going, you know what? Bring it and bringing it on means facing it. Does mean sitting in it. It does mean looking at those things. I had to really go deep within myself. Like shame was probably one of the biggest things that I have to work through. And it's only been in the last few years that I've come to terms with what that actually looks like. Shame is a really difficult emotion to shame
• 30:49
  Dominique Hind: more than guilt
• 30:50
  Tracy Hall: or Yeah, because guilt is like, I've done something, yeah. Okay, fine.
• 30:54
  Tracy Hall: Well, shame is I am wrong, okay, right? And shame is, shame is a very lonely emotion, because there is a part of yourself or a part of your life that you believe, if other people know it about you, that they won't love you, or you are not worthy, or you are not accepted, or you you don't belong. And we all want to belong as part of our primal history, right? So you tuck it down into a deep, dark space inside yourself, and you hope that nobody finds out. Well, yeah, Ron was going to find out about this, right? It was a very, very public criminal case, and then there was a podcast.
• 31:36
  Tracy Hall: But the most challenging thing for me about shame was not the fact that I didn't want other people to see this about me or know this about me or think badly about me. It was that I actually didn't want to think that about myself. Yes, yeah. So I was not only lonely from the world, I was lonely from myself because I couldn't connect with something that had happened to me that, you know, I can't sit here and say it wasn't entirely my fault, like I let things happen and I had to face those things. Yeah, yes, I was targeted, yes, I was manipulated. Yes, he was a professional. All of those things are true. But what I felt was, is this, this thing inside me that I didn't even want to face to myself, and that made me feel really lonely from myself, and lonely from my friends, and lonely from the world. And loneliness is a really bad place to be. Yeah, it's a very depressive state. So I had to really look at shame. What did I do? I had a lot of therapy and and
• 32:42
  Dominique Hind: did you find that talking about it helped in
• 32:45
  Tracy Hall: the early stages?
• 32:45
  Tracy Hall: Yes, and having that professional to sort of guide me through the decision to take medication, for example, you know, something I never thought I would do. I have, I feel really lucky. I have a very strong mental constitution. Yes, I have a brother who doesn't, so I know what that looks like, yeah, um, but that was, that was really helpful. And my, you know, your friends are great.
• 33:11
  Tracy Hall: Yes, everyone gets bored of the story. Literally, yeah, life moves on, and they've got their own kids and their own challenges in their own life.
• 33:16
  Tracy Hall: You don't want to be that broken record. It's like that friend going through a divorce. Yes, it's like, Man, if I have to hit this guy, okay, okay, you know, so that was really good. But after time, talk therapy wasn't enough for me, because I felt things in my body that I couldn't shift. I wasn't sleeping, yes, and this wasn't I couldn't rationally talk my way out of a good night's sleep or a bad night's sleep. There were things that I was holding on a cellular level in my body because of the trauma that I had experienced, and not just this, but everything that I experienced.
• 33:50
  Dominique Hind: And I'm sure that this then kicked off the other trauma too, because your body just remembers them. And I guess, yeah,
• 33:59
  Tracy Hall: I'm triggered. Yeah, I hate that term. I hate that term, but yeah, I mean, yes. So the work is, the work is an exploration of whatever you need it to be. And sometimes I didn't have the answer. I did equine therapy. I had done eyes out. I have done somatic Kenny Kinesiology. I've done breath work. I have done talk therapy.
• 34:20
  Tracy Hall: I've had a mindset coach. I have done yin yoga. I have done everything apart from psychedelics, which I'm open to.
• 34:33
  Dominique Hind: There's a great camp in in Mexico that apparently I'm
• 34:38
  Tracy Hall: here for it. I'm totally here for it. I'm waiting for it to be regulated in Australia, which is not too far away. But, yeah, I've done it all because there's always something to be gained. I did a resilience course last week to try and understand the, you know, the the neuroscience of resilience, because I didn't fully understand it. From a brain chemistry point of view, yeah, so I'm constantly looking for things and trying to learn and understand myself and understand others, and that that's just a journey I'd probably be on for quite a while. But you know
• 35:12
  Dominique Hind: what that in itself, is amazing, yeah, because you can just go, I'm done, or you can go, I'm not done, yeah, and I'm going to continue to learn and push myself and see what else I can do.
• 35:25
  Tracy Hall: And you take breaks in between. I'm not, I'm not the the constant therapy girl like I do. I do bits for what I need at the time, and then I go live my life. And then when something comes up or I'm feeling certain feelings, I'll go, Okay, I feel like I need, I need to explore this. So I need to work on this.
• 35:44
  Tracy Hall: So this is getting in the way of my relationship, or my ability to think clearly or whatever, like it's about knowing yourself, that's what it's about.
• 35:53
  Dominique Hind: It is, and I think this is like in doing this podcast, but also in just the questions and discussions that I'm having, this is all about knowing you better, yeah, and I think so many of us don't want to sit with us, no, and want to distract ourselves with everything else. But if we spent the time even 10 minutes a day just thinking about us and what we want, I think we'll all be so much better equipped to live.
• 36:24
  Dominique Hind: Yeah,
• 36:25
  Tracy Hall: and you kind of, I've only come to this in the last sort of five to eight years. I wish I had have come to it when I see my 20s, but I don't, though, yeah, no, I think, I think you need life experience. I do perspective. I think you need wisdom. I think you need time. I don't you know those people, they're in their 20s, that think they have themselves all worked out and all figured out. I think again, I call bullshit, yeah, because they haven't like they haven't even felt the tip of life yet, no, or maybe nothing bad has ever happened to them. And I applaud them for doing that exploration, but they're going to be a very different person in 20 years, absolutely, and they're going to be in their 20s. So I, you know, I think part of it is just the way life rolls out. Yes, you know it is.
• 37:11
  Dominique Hind: It is coming into that second act. Like the second act is when you can call bullshit, or you can feel a little bit more comfortable with yourself. Yeah, but now is the time to be feeling comfortable with you and understanding you.
• 37:24
  Dominique Hind: Yeah, I'm big believer in that.
• 37:24
  Dominique Hind: So just in regards to financial so this is where you've got such a powerful voice for advocacy and what helped you regain your financial footing. And from what you've seen and learned, what do women most need to know to protect their financial independence?
• 37:49
  Tracy Hall: Yeah, the thing that got me back on my feet was pure necessity. I had no backup. It was me. I had a job, and I doubled down and I worked. I've always been a hard worker, but I worked harder than I've ever worked because I knew that to get myself out of the deep hole that I was in financially, it was the only way I could do it.
• 38:12
  Tracy Hall: I brought in professionals. So I, you know, I feel privileged that I was be able to do that, because not everyone can access a financial advisor, but I feel good like I went without other things to do that because I was in a place where I couldn't make decisions for myself. I didn't trust myself, I didn't know what I was going to do. I could not see the week ahead of me, and I needed a professional to help me do that, and I found the most incredible financial advisor. I signed up to all of the influences on Instagram. I learned as much as I could. I lent into it, and I did that with the help of this financial advisor who didn't just talk to me about doing the practical things. She helped me create a vision for what I wanted the rest of my life to look like.
• 39:05
  Tracy Hall: Pretty
• 39:05
  Dominique Hind: amazing for financial advice. Did you do gas like I
• 39:09
  Tracy Hall: talk about her all the time, she gets really brushed Can you stop talking about me? I will sing from the rooftops about this woman for the rest of my life, because she was an angel and she was exactly what I needed in that moment to imagine what kind of life I wanted, because I was in a place where I couldn't even imagine what tomorrow looked like. I was like, just don't lose your job, just don't lose your job, just don't lose their place, yeah, which is hard, hard, but very much a survival instinct for me, because the truth was, if I had to lost my job, I would have been really fucked. Oh, yeah.
• 39:46
  Tracy Hall: So, you know, it served its purpose for that time. But on the flip side, I had this incredible woman who essentially looked at my whole life and she said, What about your insurances? What if you can't work? Do you have. Um, income protection. What about your beneficiary? With your superannuation? We'll get that back on track. Do you know that you can put additional contributions into super? And that's going to look like this, and we're going to model that out, and here's what you'll retire with. So that won't be enough, so let's come up with another strategy. How much can you save every month? Let's do your budget. What about your insurances? Yeah, what about your will? Like, they're all these things that I knew kind of needed to happen. I'd heard about them, but they were always a problem for future me to solve. And when you're busy and you're working and you're doing all the things, maybe you're a single mom, you just kind of put it to the end of your to do list. And what that did for me was was made me realise how incredibly important that was to get myself on a track to my retirement. Yeah, so there was a plan, and with a plan, I had hope, and I had something to aim for, and so that was incredible.
• 40:59
  Tracy Hall: And then what I say to women, particularly women and I can only, I can only, sort of give this advice from my own experience and what I've been through, but protecting and taking agency over your financial security and your financial future is only yours.
• 41:26
  Tracy Hall: You are the only one that can do that. A man is not a plan. A job is not a plan. You are the person that has to lean in and do that, because if your partner passes away, if you have to face a major illness, if you go through a divorce and don't end up in the position that you thought you would, if you lose your life savings to a con man, the only person that has complete control and agency over that is you, and I'm not embarrassed to admit that I gave away my financial power and security way too easily. Yeah, I felt grateful that he offered to help me. Yes. I felt grateful that he could see how hard I was working. I felt seen, yeah, and of course, he lent him to those things, and he manipulated and he exploited that. But I should have given him the laundry. I should have given him the after school pickup. I should have given Yes, anything but my nanny task, another task. Take something else off my plate. I was so happy to give that away to him, and I will never, ever do that again. Yeah, and for women, you know, it's not about being in a manipulative relationship, because there are a lot of beautiful relationships out there, but quite often you will see one party take a step back and leave it to the other person. They may not have the logins, they may not have the knowledge. They may not be leaning in. And at this financial I was on podcast, not when we go And the woman said, what her recommendation always is is don't outsource the education. Outsource the execution, yeah, absolutely leaning together. Know what's going on. Make sure you have the Logins be across edge, because it may not be that your partner betrays you. No, they may unfortunately pass away, which is what happened to my mum in her early 50s, and my dad took care of all of that stuff, and suddenly she's dealing with grief and trying to figure out how to release $10,000 for a funeral. Yeah. And you think, gosh, she could have really protected herself against that.
• 43:35
  Tracy Hall: She could have been more financially resilient. So there's so much to be learned, but, you know, don't give away your financial power and security. Yeah? To anybody.
• 43:48
  Dominique Hind: I think that's, it's, it's so interesting, and I've seen it so many times, that so many women get caught in doing the crap tasks, yeah, like, the crap, like, just, you know, the stuff that is mindless, yeah, when? And they've got no understanding of financial Yeah, and if they're separate, well, if they whatever happened, yeah, they don't know how they actually going to survive, yeah? And
• 44:14
  Tracy Hall: they don't understand it. And they're starting from scratch, which means you're on the back foot before you begin. And I was on the back foot, yeah, you know, because I just haven't I hadn't lent in, I hadn't put my mind to it. And it's also important to say that this stuff is not always accessible. No, the language is accessible. It is hard to understand, and you feel stupid for putting your hand up and going, sorry. Can you just explain that to me again?
• 44:39
  Tracy Hall: Because we, you know, I can guarantee you your partner probably doesn't really understand it, you know, you know. So ask the questions until you do understand. And and my financial advisor, you know, she knows when I don't understand something, I'm pleased. I'm so sorry. But please, can you just explain that to me in a different way? So I I need to be able to explain. Line. It's someone else. Yeah, potentially, it's
• 45:02
  Dominique Hind: funny. So even on the way dropping my daughter off this morning, we were she was talking about, how does the US political environment impact Australia? And I was like, Oh my gosh, I can't way too early for this chat. GDP, can you please help me explain to an 11 year old daughter, my daughter. How this? And it's exactly the same.
• 45:22
  Dominique Hind: Whenever our financial advisor sends us something through and I go, I've got no idea what that actually means. I put it into chat GDP, just to go, can you explain this to me so that I will understand? Get rid of all the fancy language, but there's so many tools now that we can use Yeah, to make sure that that understanding is done at our level,
• 45:47
  Tracy Hall: yeah, and just the acknowledgement that it's okay to not understand. And you know, these are unfamiliar with. None of us work in finance. Well, some people will, but most of us don't work in finance, and so we don't fully understand what, what these terms and conditions are, and what it means, and what, you know, what that means, practically, yeah, so I'm always saying, what does that mean?
• 46:07
  Tracy Hall: Practically, yes, like, what do I have to do? What does that end up looking like? You know? So I have problem asking the questions now, because I know what happens if you don't ask the questions.
• 46:21
  Dominique Hind: I think hard learning, sorry, it is a hard lesson to learn, but it's one that you've learned, yeah, and now you know you've taken control of of that. And I think that is, like, it's amazing, yeah, because so many people don't, okay, so the year is into your 50th birthday, and you do have your list of things, yeah, what is being the most unexpected or fun thing on your list that you've done? It's
• 46:51
  Tracy Hall: my 50 before 50 list. It's um, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna hit them all. I know that. Yeah, so it'll probably roll into a 60. Where did you start? Probably around 45
• 47:03
  Dominique Hind: okay, yeah. And then coming to the party late, if that's why,
• 47:08
  Tracy Hall: it depends on you already do. There are things on there as simple as, I'd love to learn how to cook paella, like, probably the proper thing, yeah, you know, stupid, yeah. But it's never done it. So I'm like, I'd love to be able to cook paella for a group of people. So things like that, everything from that to I had write a book. Oh, man, yeah. And then that came to fruition, gone to surf retreat in Sri Lanka. Went and did that, learn how to surf in Sri Lanka.
• 47:36
  Tracy Hall: That was incredible. The biggest, the biggest one that has made the most difference to my life is, How can I sleep?
• 47:46
  Dominique Hind: Yeah, okay, yes, we, we touched on it. Can you talk to me about this? So,
• 47:51
  Tracy Hall: chronic Insomniac for 20 years really struggled.
• 47:55
  Tracy Hall: I've done sleep studies, I've been to a sleep psychologist, I've done all the things. And I, you know, I know that sleep has a detrimental effect on brain health, brain function. And quite frankly, I'm just a much nicer person when I've had sleep. The world is so much easier when you have slept. And I know when I went through this experience and other experiences. When I haven't slept, the emotions are so much harder to manage. I can't I don't cope as well. And I don't think anybody does, no, I don't think anyone does. So I wanted to learn as much as I could. I during COVID, I made a decision.
• 48:39
  Tracy Hall: So one of the things on my 50 before 50 list, because I knew that it could help change my circadian rhythm, was get up every morning and go walking at six o'clock. And I had a little friend in my bubble that I was able to do that with. And of course, it was exciting back then, because, you know, you got out and whatever. So it was up every morning at sunrise for three months walking with a girlfriend, and that was the start of reprogramming my circadian rhythm. So I was always a night owl, yeah, okay, stay up late, work late. And I think that was a kind of a corporate hangover as well. And then I'd be wired, yeah, tired and wired hard. Get to sleep if you've been working. No, it just, and it just felt like the only time I could fit everything in. And so I did that, and then I made a decision that I would be in bed at nine o'clock every night. I didn't have to sleep at nine, but go to bed at nine and and get that first wave of tiredness while I was in bed, rather than push through it and then not get another one till two in the morning, live so in bed at nine, either reading or just relaxing or listening to a meditation or what have you. So up at six, in bed at nine, and then I did everything I could to learn about sleep and what that meant and how it was going to help me. And I just I. Double Down, yeah, and I did it and it has I'm a morning person. Now, I never thought I would say that before. I still try and get in bed before 10, one hour before, is worth Yeah. After Yes. I bought a an aura. I track my sleep. Do you like it? I love it, yeah, because it taught me everything I needed to know about what I was doing that have impacted my sleep, okay?
• 50:24
  Tracy Hall: Alcohol, exercise, meditation, I tracked everything. And I know, I know, and it basically looks at data. So I've had it for five this be my sixth year I've had it. It essentially looks at all of my time over the last six years, and it tells me what time I need to go to bed to get the best night's sleep. And it gives me a little reminder you're just by confronting seven o'clock when you're doing the homework and doing after school pickup and activities and cooking dinner and all the things, and it's like you should be winding to bed now. Oh, but yeah, and and then over time, I've just got less obsessive about it. I I know that I'm still gonna have bad night's sleep because the things on my mind, or, you know, I've had a few drinks, or whatever it might be, and I just go, Well, you know what? It's just a night back again tomorrow, whereas before, I used to have so much anxiety around sleep, and then the worry about the worry would stop me sleeping, yes, so, and I've done a lot of somatic body work to help relieve, like, help relax my body in itself, like at a cellular Yeah, Yeah. Meditation is really hard for me. I don't, I don't know. I can't, I can't speak to that. But, yeah, just consistency, consistency, I think consistency is a big one.
• 51:50
  Tracy Hall: It's hard, but yes, it's worth it, and sleep makes everything better. It
• 51:54
  Dominique Hind: does. And on your list, six months alcohol free? Are you still in that period? I'm
• 51:59
  Tracy Hall: about two and a half months in, okay, to my six months, I left it as long as possible. It's been on my list for a while, and I don't drink a lot, but, you know, I just wanted to see what it felt like to have six consecutive months without any alcohol in my body.
• 52:14
  Tracy Hall: So I am sleeping better. Oh, really. I thought I would feel better, yeah, I thought I would really different, something different. But
• 52:27
  Dominique Hind: I think if you're not drinking that often, yeah, it's Yeah, because my liver wasn't great, and so I stopped drinking for a period of time, and I was like, Oh, am I gonna feel like, yeah, 18 again, yeah. But it's like, oh, yeah, okay, this is it? This is it?
• 52:40
  Dominique Hind: Yeah, but, yeah, I did. I did help with my liver over time.
• 52:45
  Dominique Hind: But it's a good challenge. It is a good challenge.
• 52:50
  Tracy Hall: The thing that I've learned about alcohol, like it's so associative. So when I get together with my girlfriends, we have a drink, and we don't drink a lot. Quite often we're driving. Yes, we don't drink a lot, but it is that moment where you're like, it's that excitement of being together, that feeling of community and connection and an alcoholic drink goes with that. It does.
• 53:10
  Tracy Hall: It is I play soccer in a women's team. It is the beer after the game when we're all standing around having a laugh about when I fell over or when I got the goal, or when I didn't get the goal, you know, it is so associative. Anything time you're doing something that's celebration, like, yeah, it is, yeah, it's always and so to have it not there, feels like something's missing. You see, I just replace it with a mock trial. So yeah, I think that I am actually doing, yeah, I've been doing it. I've been doing that as well. But, yeah, I don't know. I just, yeah, I'm, I think I'm still getting used to, it's only two aunts, so yeah, but I'm sticking. I'm determined. Okay, good. I'm determined. We'll let you know how. Six months I'll be like, doing high kicks and Star jump. So
• 53:56
  Dominique Hind: you'll be like, this is the best thing ever my sleep. I'm sleeping like, 12 hours,
• 54:01
  Tracy Hall: five kilos is so good. None of it's happened,
• 54:06
  Dominique Hind: but people who haven't experienced something quite so extreme, what are the little everyday ways we can better protect ourselves, whether financial, emotional or even energetically? Can I can I give you one that Justin came home and told me he was talking about cash rewards. Oh, yeah.
• 54:25
  Dominique Hind: Like, how, yeah, he's cash rewards, you super. And I was like, what? Yeah, yeah,
• 54:32
  Tracy Hall: love. I mean, I'm, like, I went through a stage where I was just anything to get additional income. I Yes, I was there for it. So there are little things you can do like that, I think, you know, strength and resilience and all of those things. They're built in all the small moments, not the big moment. Yeah. So every time I do a cash rewards, I'm going to spend the money anyway.
• 54:54
  Tracy Hall: So I get this little like kickback, and I go, okay, that I'm building towards. A goal. It could be, you know, some some goal, that you've got a health goal. And every time you go to the gym or you do the walk, or you get the night's sleep, it's like a dopamine hit. So I don't, I think it's in the small moments. It's in the small things that add up over time, that make you feel holistically better and moving forward. And it's just about moving forward.
• 55:24
  Tracy Hall: Yeah?
• 55:25
  Dominique Hind: Doesn't have to be big, yeah, it's just so small steps. Yeah? And you can, even when you're feeling rubbish, you can take a small step, yeah, and you do feel better after it as well. Yeah,
• 55:35
  Tracy Hall: my um, my psychologist gave me a really good tip when I was at one of my lowest points, where I'd wake up in the morning, and I think I actually don't know how I'm going to get through this day, like really low, very depressed, very anxious. And she said, you have to break your your day down into the smallest micro components so that when you achieve that micro component, your body gets a little kick, and it gets a little boost of confidence, dopamine, whatever you want to call it, so and it's an example I've given before, but in that moment where I'm lying in bed and I've remembered what's happened to me, and I've think about my day ahead, and it overwhelms me, I go, Okay, what's the first thing I need to do? I just need to sit up. Yeah, so you sit up. I just need to get to the kitchen and make a cup of tea. Okay, I can do that.
• 56:29
  Tracy Hall: And every time you do that and break it down, and you you reach that goal, your body internally goes, well, well done, you know?
• 56:37
  Tracy Hall: And then over time, you go, Well, I did it yesterday, yes.
• 56:41
  Tracy Hall: So I can do it today. You can do it today, and you just it's one step at a time, rather than thinking about that big day ahead of you and how overwhelming that is based on your energy, your mental health that day, whatever it might be, and it's too much. So just breaking everything down into tiny steps for people that are agoraphobic and can't leave the house, maybe it's just getting to the door, not even opening the door, and that's a win, yeah? Because they couldn't do that yesterday or the day before or the week before. So that that was a really good training for me, because it just brought me back to the present moment and didn't allow that overwhelm to paralyse me, yeah, I think that's
• 57:22
  Dominique Hind: yeah. It is just those little things that you can, yeah, you can, can do with your advocacy work. How has that experience reshaped your personal identity and life goals?
• 57:37
  Tracy Hall: Well, it has completely changed my career, yes, so I do this full time now I've set up a business. I, you know, this is what I do now. For me, personally, it has so much purpose, and it is so central to what I want to deliver to the world based on my experience.
• 57:58
  Tracy Hall: And I think, you know, we all go through our corporate careers and we're like, how do I find purpose? And you're trying to align your purpose with some company purpose, and it's always a little bit tenuous. And, you know, and everyone's looking for that thing to do that makes them feel like they're giving back to the world. And when I was in corporate, I, you know, essentially, I just got people to buy more stuff on the internet. That's it. That was, that was my purpose in life, in marketing. And I love my job. I love marketing, but it wasn't very altruistic. So I would volunteer on the side to feel that component of myself. So that's what I did. Whereas now what I do is I deliver to the world my lessons, my learnings, my wisdom based on my experiences, which feels so purposeful to me, but is my job now, and you know, I've got to pay school fees. I've got to pay the rent and the mortgage and the groceries and all the things. So it does have to be commercial as well, yes, but it comes from a place internally where I don't want this to happen to anybody else, and so I will do whatever I have in my power to spread this message, to be the voice of other people who aren't strong enough or have not yet found their voice to have This conversation no matter what's happened to them. And, you know, to advocate for change, because there is a lot in this space that needs to change. You know, scams are not seen as crime. So, yes, they're seen as scams, even the word it's financial crime. Yeah, these people are criminals, and I'm lucky that my perpetrator was taken through a criminal process and sentenced to many, many years in jail, but most people who experience fraud and a financial crime will never have their perpetrator come to justice, and part of that process is that there is no victim support for people of financial. Crime, very, very little. It actually is better to have someone break into your house, steal your TV and put a gum to your head, sadly, but the impact of financial crime and betrayal to the extent that I experienced is, I think in some ways, you know, just as bad, if not worse than than a violent crime, but
• 1:00:21
  Dominique Hind: I think because you are then doubting yourself, yeah, whereas if it is break and enter, that's a it's rent. Like it can be a random chance, or it can be because they've seen something material that they want, yes, whereas not your fault, it's not your fault.
• 1:00:33
  Dominique Hind: Whereas this is I made, those decisions I made, yeah, that money I did in my account. I've sent that picture the link,
• 1:00:43
  Tracy Hall: yeah, yep. And this is, this is how the system is also set up, and it's complicated. There is no easy fix, but from a victim's point of view, the victim blaming that goes on yourself, as well as the lack of support. So for me advocating for change, so that people who go through what I went through and don't have the resources that I was privileged enough to find and have, both inside myself and externally, then there is a pathway for these people. There are people who lose their money, that choose to die by suicide because they cannot get through another day. And I know how that feels.
• 1:01:23
  Tracy Hall: I just, I'm grateful that I had enough internal resource not to go there. Yeah, some people don't, but there are no pathways for these young people, very, very few. So that's, that's my gift to the world.
• 1:01:37
  Dominique Hind: But I also think with them as well, that shame and that, you know, the what you've worked on, you know, getting to the shame, I think, from financial crime, the shame for people is just it. It overwhelms them. It
• 1:01:53
  Tracy Hall: does, and it's not helped by the way that these things are reported and the way the system is set up, or the way that they're
• 1:02:00
  Dominique Hind: judged. Yeah, because you know it. You don't know what is going on in some person's point of weakness or that point of contact, yeah, where it was just a it was just my man, or, yeah, it was something that they weren't thinking and, yeah, they gotta suck it in. And
• 1:02:19
  Tracy Hall: these criminals are professionals. They're very sophisticated. They are it is organised crime. And I could talk for hours, but that that I won't, it is organised crime.
• 1:02:29
  Tracy Hall: And the way that, you know, the media have portrayed these stories, you know, even headlines relating to me and I, and I'll preface this by saying it's not intentional, no, I think they just don't know what they don't know. Yeah, but think about violent sexual crimes and how they used to be reported and how that narrative has changed.
• 1:02:46
  Tracy Hall: The same needs to happen for financial crime. So instead of a headline that says Tracy's dashing investor boyfriend, she lost $300,000 all all the red flags she missed. You know, it is completely based on the victim. Yeah, now he's not dashing. I didn't lose it. He stole it. And the red flags, well, we've already spoken about that. So how do they how can you change the narrative within the media so that people, when they see those headlines, know that they won't be represented in that way. I'm strong enough to withstand that. Yeah. I mean, that's fine, yes, but there are people that will not come forward and they will not report because they are afraid that that is the way that they will be betrayed. And that's a fair that's a fair judgement, absolutely.
• 1:03:35
  Dominique Hind: So one of the things that I'd loved was that you you thanked at the end of the book, the other victims that you and I thought that was actually because it felt like your own support network. And I know it's sounds funny, but by knowing that people had gone through exactly what you had, and I think that's a, you know, a great thing, to be able to have that support
• 1:03:59
  Tracy Hall: when you're not alone, when you're not alone, when you feel like somebody else fully understands what you've been through, then that is a really comforting place to start. Yeah, and you know, again, loneliness is a very difficult thing to cope with, especially when you're dealing with all the other emotions. So yeah, they were an incredible support for me, I think we all were for each other, and everyone had a different experience with Hamish. But you know, collectively, we'd all lost a lot of money. And
• 1:04:33
  Dominique Hind: also, I'm sure you're all feeling the same, yeah, so it would have been different experience, but I'm sure that internal feeling inside you, yeah. Was similar across everyone, yeah.
• 1:04:42
  Tracy Hall: And it was, it was funny, like Lisa Ho, for example. Her, her view was really pragmatic, and I took a lot from her strength, but she, she sort of looked at it. She goes, it was a bad business decision. I made a bad business decision, and that's how she looked at it. She had advisors who were advising her, you know, and, and she was a. Pragmatic as that she wanted him to come to justice. There was no doubt about that side of her strength.
• 1:05:04
  Tracy Hall: But I listened to that, and I thought that's actually not a bad if she wasn't in an intimate relationship with him. That was sort of another level for me that none of the other victims had experienced. But I learned a lot from that. Yes, I learned a lot. Yeah, yeah, she's incredible, yeah, yeah. And at
• 1:05:25
  Dominique Hind: least she did speak up as well.
• 1:05:27
  Tracy Hall: Yes, yeah, she she was, she was happy to put her, her name out there and and be a victim. And there were a lot of people that have been defrauded by Hamish that didn't do this for their own reasons. And you don't judge, not only for that, you can't, but I don't know what their story is. You don't know what their story what they're going through, but there was a lot more money lost than what was actually part of the case.
• 1:05:51
  Dominique Hind: Second last question, how do you envisage using your experience to continue making such a positive impact?
• 1:05:59
  Tracy Hall: I will just continue on this path until I have no words left.
• 1:06:05
  Dominique Hind: I have a lot of words and that it is a financial crime rather than a scam. I think that is, like, that's a big one, yeah, trying to get that changed. Victim
• 1:06:14
  Tracy Hall: Support, pathways to recovery, so pathways to reporting, pathways to victim support a singular pathway. It is very confusing. If you are a victim of financial crime, to know what to do, you have to report it to like, three or four different places, like there is, you know, and the government are trying, yes, they're really working on this. They're spending a lot of time and energy. My place in the conversation is to remind everybody that is working so hard on this, all the money that is being spent, all the data that is coming out, all the AI technology that is being put towards this, by the banks, by government, by the telcos, by everybody. My job in this ecosystem is to remind people that there are humans at the centre. Yes, does this Yes? And the human toll is profound, and quite often it's not spoken about enough. And it's really important to remind people that, you know, there are humans whose lives have been devastated and flattened by the greed of others, but also taken as well, and taken, taken 100% and you know, it's an important voice to add to the ecosystem of everything that's happening. And quite often I'm the only victim voice in the room, but I'm okay with that, because I will talk on behalf of everybody. And so that's, that's what I bring to the table, and then education.
• 1:07:42
  Tracy Hall: The story is very shocking. So people stop and listen, yes, and I think at this point in time, it's still, you know, unfortunately, the weakest link in the defence ecosystem is humans. Yeah, and we need to continue to educate ourselves.
• 1:07:59
  Tracy Hall: We had to continue to talk about this money. We don't like talking about money. We don't I'm happy to talk about the money I've lost, you know, and I think the most intelligent thing we can do when it comes to scams and fraud is to humbly accept that it might happen to
• 1:08:15
  Dominique Hind: us. Yes, I think that's it. Where everyone goes, Oh, it's not going to happen.
• 1:08:17
  Dominique Hind: But what happens when it does?
• 1:08:20
  Tracy Hall: Well, it did yeah.
• 1:08:20
  Tracy Hall: And I never thought it would be me Yeah. And so if I can continue to spread that message and be that beacon of hope for anybody else going through a really hard time, then I'm that's, that's what I want to do. I'll continue doing it until I can't pay the rent and school fees and but, yeah, that's what, that's what I want to do, and and I think it's making a difference. I
• 1:08:43
  Dominique Hind: you know what? I definitely do. Think it is making a difference, and even if it is just getting women, or even just people in general, to actually understand their financial situation and take ownership of it, rather than just kick it down the road.
• 1:08:57
  Dominique Hind: Yeah, that's a massive thing?
• 1:09:00
  Dominique Hind: Yeah,
• 1:09:01
  Tracy Hall: we are so financially and digitally vulnerable, and we don't even realise it. You know, you just have to ask a few simple questions to an audience and people. You can see their minds going, actually, I don't have the logins. I don't know how much is in my super right now. I haven't set up two factor biometrics. My passwords are probably really huggable. Yeah, you know, there's, there's a lot I don't check my bank statements every week. You know, there were, there are simple questions that I asked and people you can just see them going actually, you know what? I need to lean into this a bit harder. And if that's all they take away, that's all they take away. That is a good step forward. You
• 1:09:37
  Dominique Hind: know, it is a good step forward. Even checking the bank accounts like and the subscriptions that you just get coming, and you're like, what?
• 1:09:43
  Dominique Hind: Oh, have I used that in seven months? Yeah, right. Okay, Tracy, it has been absolutely lovely talking to you and like, I knew that as soon as I saw you I was gonna cry, because when I read the. Book, I honestly was so like, I just think you're amazing. Like, I actually do think you're amazing. But if there's one thing I could do before I hit 50, something that would push me. What do you think it should be?
• 1:10:15
  Tracy Hall: Write a 50 before 50 list? I'm definitely doing that, but it'll battle short. It'll be lots of things in there, and you may not hit them all, but it's, it's always good to have something to aim for. It keeps us moving forward. It keeps us curious. It keeps us, you know, I always think it's good to be interesting and interested. Yes, you know. And that keeps you both of those things. So do that list? Okay,
• 1:10:40
  Dominique Hind: yeah. And what like being having something to be interested in, yeah, it stops, you know, this the silence, because it gives you something to actually aim for and to look for as well. Yeah,
• 1:10:53
  Tracy Hall: that's it. Yeah, okay, great. Do that. Let me know. Can you send it to me when you're done? Can you send me yours first? Yeah, I can share it with you. Just another thing to do. Your to do list.
• 1:11:04
  Dominique Hind: I'm joking, yeah, all right, okay, Tracy, thank you for sharing your story with such honesty, depth and grace, like I honestly do think you are amazing. Your ability to turn pain into purpose is beyond inspiring. Sorry. My technique.
• 1:11:23
  Dominique Hind: I just like, like, I honestly think that you coming out the other side is amazing. So well done. You. And I know it's hard, but you've done it. And if Tracy's story has moved you like it has obviously me go and read or listen to her book, the last victim. It's not just a memoir, it's a master class in resilience, and if someone is trying to rebuild, reinvent or simply reconnect with your power, Tracy's journey is proof that it's possible, and we don't get to control what happens to us, but we do get to choose what we do next, and the way that Tracy has chosen to show up for herself and for others is something that we can all learn from. So if you love this episode, share it with friends, excuse my tears, and connect with us on any of the socials.
• 1:12:25
  Dominique Hind: And also, why don't you take Tracy's challenge, do a 50 list before you're 50, try something that scares you a little and just shake things up. Because fuck we're nearly 50, and isn't it amazing? You.