Latest / Deadly Divas True Crime Podcast / Episode 19: The Grizzly Grannies of LA

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Episode 19: The Grizzly Grannies of LA · Deadly Divas True Crime Podcast

0:20
SPEAKER_00: Hey, true crime divas.
0:23
SPEAKER_00: And dudes.
0:24
SPEAKER_00: I'm Sarah, and you're listening to Deadly Divas.
0:28
SPEAKER_02: And I'm Tina.
0:29
SPEAKER_02: If you're new here, welcome to our podcast.
0:31
SPEAKER_02: We are so glad you're here to talk true crime with us this week.
0:35
SPEAKER_00: If you're a regular, you know things are about to get juicy, but also don't forget to follow us on Facebook so you know what's coming up each week.
0:43
SPEAKER_00: And we have giveaways for some funky merch.
0:45
SPEAKER_00: Ooh.
0:46
SPEAKER_00: Funky merch.
0:47
SPEAKER_00: All right, I have called this one the Grizzly Grannies of LA.
0:52
SPEAKER_00: We hear all the time about murder in the heat of the moment.
0:56
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's planned, sometimes it's premeditated.
1:00
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes they're brewing for a couple of weeks.
1:03
SPEAKER_00: But this is the story of two elderly ladies in Los Angeles who spend years at a time setting up the ultimate murders and spending$60,000 plus up front for a bigger return at the end.
1:18
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
1:19
SPEAKER_00: This is a true grind story like no other.
1:23
SPEAKER_00: So first let's meet Helen Gollet.
1:26
SPEAKER_00: She was born in Texas.
1:28
SPEAKER_00: She was orphaned early on, and she moved through foster home.
1:31
SPEAKER_00: She had a bit of a rough childhood until eventually she moved to LA and married a dentist with whom she had two daughters.
1:38
SPEAKER_00: But unfortunately, the marriage didn't last forever.
1:41
SPEAKER_00: And Helen ended up divorced, but she stayed in LA where she invested in property and did okay for herself.
1:48
SPEAKER_00: Now her partner in crime, literally, is Olga Rutterschmidt.
1:54
SPEAKER_00: She was born in Budapest and immigrated to the U.S.
1:57
SPEAKER_00: and married a man named Andre.
1:59
SPEAKER_00: However, her marriage did not work out either.
2:02
SPEAKER_00: And these two divorced ladies met one day at a gym in Los Angeles and together decided to help the local homeless, as two sweet old ladies might.
2:13
SPEAKER_00: As they should.
2:15
SPEAKER_00: They volunteered at a local church that had an outreach program to help the homeless in LA by providing warm blankets, meals, and helping however they could.
2:24
SPEAKER_00: And have you ever seen Skidrow?
2:26
SPEAKER_00: I haven't.
2:27
SPEAKER_00: It is just, I don't know, I've never seen anything like it.
2:32
SPEAKER_00: But my brother lived in Los Angeles, and his to get from his apartment to his work, he had to drive past it every day.
2:39
SPEAKER_00: And you see it on TV and you hear about it, but to actually experience it is absolutely crazy.
2:46
SPEAKER_02: I can only imagine.
2:47
SPEAKER_02: I have seen it on TV, like in various documentaries, because obviously there's a lot of crime that happens.
2:54
SPEAKER_00: And it's just like one road, really, with a couple of side streets as well.
2:59
SPEAKER_00: That's just constant.
3:00
SPEAKER_00: They're not even tents, just tops after tops after tops.
3:03
SPEAKER_00: And the people are wandering all over the streets.
3:06
SPEAKER_00: Like it's hard to drive down there because there's just so many homeless people.
3:10
SPEAKER_00: But they try and keep them all in that area for a reason.
3:14
SPEAKER_00: And that's where they have all the outreach programs and the food pantries and so on.
3:19
SPEAKER_00: But all around LA, you see random ones.
3:22
SPEAKER_00: But they try and keep it all to that one area for a reason.
3:25
SPEAKER_02: That's so sad.
3:26
SPEAKER_00: It is.
3:26
SPEAKER_00: And I I've been to a lot of cities in America because you know I went to every baseball park.
3:31
SPEAKER_00: And I've seen homeless in most of the big cities, but nothing like that.
3:35
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
3:35
SPEAKER_00: So one such individual, Paul Bados, found himself on hard times and he went to the church for help.
3:42
SPEAKER_00: He used to work for Apple and he was married with children.
3:46
SPEAKER_00: But after his wife died and the children grew up and moved away, he turned to the bottle and started to struggle and eventually found himself homeless.
3:54
SPEAKER_00: Now at the church, he meets Olga and Helen, who tell them they're looking for somebody to help beyond volunteering at the church.
4:01
SPEAKER_00: And they can see that he's not just the regular homeless person, and they would like to offer him a free place to stay and food for as long as he needs to get himself back on his feet, and he cannot believe his luck.
4:13
SPEAKER_00: These ladies find and rent him an apartment, pay his food and bills for the next two years.
4:19
SPEAKER_00: Until one day, he disappears.
4:24
SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, he had been found deceased in an alley by LA police.
4:28
SPEAKER_00: Although he hadn't been identified because he had no ID on him, but he seemed to have been the victim of a hit and run.
4:34
SPEAKER_00: Now, two weeks later, Olga files a missing person's report on Paul, and the police realize that their unknown victim in the alley is the Paul that Olga's looking for.
4:45
SPEAKER_00: And Olga seems extremely upset when she has to go and let the landlord of the apartment know that he's passed away.
4:51
SPEAKER_00: And it was Helen who claimed the body and paid for his burial.
4:55
SPEAKER_00: Dear little sweet old ladies, aren't they?
4:57
SPEAKER_00: Very sweet.
4:59
SPEAKER_00: Helen and Olga seem to take a while to get over the death of Paul, but eventually they're ready to start looking for their next victim.
5:06
SPEAKER_00: I mean charity case to help.
5:10
SPEAKER_00: And it's three years after Paul's death that they meet Jimmy Cobbington.
5:14
SPEAKER_00: They make him the same offer.
5:16
SPEAKER_00: But Jimmy's kind of suspicious at first.
5:18
SPEAKER_00: He doesn't jump for it quite as fast as Paul.
5:20
SPEAKER_00: But he was, of course, interested because he's currently homeless and struggling.
5:24
SPEAKER_00: So Olga takes him to her office and asks him to fill out some paperwork, gives him a key to the office, letting him know that while they find him somewhere more suitable and permanent, in the meantime, he can sleep on the futon in the office.
5:36
SPEAKER_00: He thinks it's a bit odd, but hey, he's a homeless person.
5:39
SPEAKER_02: Right.
5:42
SPEAKER_02: For sure.
5:43
SPEAKER_00: He fills out the paperwork, and it seems fairly simple, just name, date of birth, social security number.
5:49
SPEAKER_00: But the next day she returns with more forms, and this time they're a little bit more in depth.
5:53
SPEAKER_00: They're asking for his parents' names, dates of birth, social security number.
5:58
SPEAKER_00: Some of that stuff he doesn't even know.
6:01
SPEAKER_00: This makes Jimmy uncomfortable.
6:03
SPEAKER_00: And so after Olga leaves, he decides he's gonna get the hell out of Dodd.
6:07
SPEAKER_00: And he hands the key in to the office at the front desk, who seems surprised to see him and swiftly inform him that no one is supposed to be sleeping in the offices.
6:16
SPEAKER_00: It is strictly prohibited.
6:18
SPEAKER_00: What Jimmy doesn't know is what a lucky escape he just had.
6:22
SPEAKER_00: Doesn't know yet.
6:23
SPEAKER_00: So after Jimmy runs out on them, Olga and Helen find Kenneth McDavid, also at the church, and they approach him with the same offer, a place to stay and food.
6:34
SPEAKER_00: He jumps at it and they rent him a studio apartment, which he lives in for the next two years, until he is also found, you guessed it, deceased by an apparent hit and run in an alley.
6:46
SPEAKER_02: Red flag alert.
6:47
SPEAKER_02: Red flag alert.
6:48
SPEAKER_00: But this time with ID right there in his pocket so he can be immediately identified.
6:53
SPEAKER_00: Guess they learned a lesson the first time, didn't they?
6:57
SPEAKER_00: Kenneth had no known family, so good old Helen steps up to identify him, claim the body, and once again pay for the funeral.
7:04
SPEAKER_00: In fact, over the last two years, Helen had invested over$60,000 into helping Kenneth.
7:11
SPEAKER_00: Now, enter Ed Webster, and this is where it starts to get juicy.
7:17
SPEAKER_00: Ed is a former private detective who now works for an insurance company in New York.
7:22
SPEAKER_00: His job is to investigate any life insurance claims of deaths that are somewhat unusual circumstances, like for example, a hit and run in an alley.
7:33
SPEAKER_00: While looking over the insurance forms for Kenneth McDavid, Ed sees that Kenneth is listed as a shareholder in a company owned by Helen and Olga named HKO, presumably standing for Helen, Kenneth, and Olga.
7:46
SPEAKER_00: It's called HKO Associates, and his annual income is listed as$65,000 a year.
7:52
SPEAKER_00: And both life insurance policies, because there are two of them, are paid out to the other two partners.
7:58
SPEAKER_00: With there being two policies, there are obvious inconsistencies.
8:02
SPEAKER_00: For example, one says he lives with Helen and one says he lives with Olga.
8:07
SPEAKER_00: But Ed finds out that Kenneth doesn't live in it with either.
8:11
SPEAKER_00: And he didn't work at the company.
8:12
SPEAKER_00: He lived in an apartment that was in Helen's name but was elsewhere.
8:17
SPEAKER_00: And these were enough red flags of false information that Ed decided to go to LA to investigate further.
8:23
SPEAKER_00: So this this man's dedicated.
8:25
SPEAKER_00: He's flying from New York to LA.
8:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he is.
8:28
SPEAKER_00: Now this man, thank goodness, is very good at his job, takes it very seriously, and he even went to the location where Kenneth's body was found.
8:37
SPEAKER_00: And he realizes there's no skid marks, there's no car debris.
8:41
SPEAKER_00: And he also looks at the photographs that the responding officers had taken and noticed that the theory that Kenneth was changing attire just does not fit with the evidence in the pictures.
8:51
SPEAKER_00: So Ed decides maybe he should go talk to Helen and Olga to find out how this all ties in.
8:56
SPEAKER_00: But both ladies just refuse to talk to him and instead file a complaint against the insurance company.
9:03
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
9:05
SPEAKER_02: Like they came out the gate swinging.
9:08
SPEAKER_00: Right.
9:08
SPEAKER_00: They just get more ballsy, I tell you.
9:10
SPEAKER_00: Ed decides it's time to talk to the local police.
9:13
SPEAKER_00: And this triggers a memory in one officer of another homeless man found deceased in an alley, supposedly hit by a car.
9:20
SPEAKER_00: So he brings Ed's attention, and from further investigation, they realize that the person also had a life insurance policy that paid out to Helen and Olga.
9:30
SPEAKER_00: It was Paul.
9:32
SPEAKER_00: Coincidence.
9:33
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
9:35
SPEAKER_00: The police decide it's time to look into the everyday lives of these two sweet old ladies, so they put them under surveillance.
9:42
SPEAKER_00: Olga, however, is a sprightly gal.
9:44
SPEAKER_00: Now these ladies are both in their 70s at this time, and she could often outwalk or even outrun detectives, whereas Helen was much easier to follow.
9:54
SPEAKER_00: While following her, they discover she has a scheme for playing credit cards against each other and investing in real estate with the funds.
10:02
SPEAKER_00: Although that is kind of shady, it's not actually illegal.
10:05
SPEAKER_00: They also never saw the two of them together, so the only connection they have on them are these two life insurance policies on two deceased homeless men.
10:13
SPEAKER_00: Now the police track down Kenneth's sister and inform her that he has passed away.
10:18
SPEAKER_00: She confirms that she has no idea who Helen or Olga are.
10:22
SPEAKER_00: Police have now taken to calling Helen and Olga the girls.
10:26
SPEAKER_00: I like to call them the grizzly grannies.
10:29
SPEAKER_00: But they call them the girls.
10:30
SPEAKER_02: But can you imagine being like the loved one, like a sister or brother, or mother or father?
10:36
SPEAKER_02: And you get a call like, oh, your brother has passed away, and so and so, these two randos have claimed the body, like these people you've never heard of in your entire life.
10:47
SPEAKER_02: Like, what a shock that would be.
10:49
SPEAKER_00: They've claimed the body, they've paid for the burial, and they have life insurance policies on him.
10:54
SPEAKER_00: So the police take to calling them the girls, and they were able to establish that they would start off with small policies that did not require medical information.
11:02
SPEAKER_00: And in total, they applied for eight total policies on Paul and were approved for seven.
11:08
SPEAKER_00: And on Kenneth, they applied for 18 and got approved for 13 separate life insurance policies.
11:16
SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow.
11:17
SPEAKER_00: And the applications are filled out with a multitude of lies, like saying the homeless men had no medical issues, earned a lot of money, and were engaged to Helen.
11:27
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
11:27
SPEAKER_02: She had a lot of fiances, I guess.
11:29
SPEAKER_02: She did, one after the other.
11:30
SPEAKER_00: So as soon as one gets hit in an alley, she just goes and finds another.
11:34
SPEAKER_00: The police detectives tell us that insurance companies really don't look into this information when people apply for insurance, because they just want the premium, but they sure do look into it when a claim is made.
11:44
SPEAKER_00: However, Helen and Olga knew how to beat the system.
11:49
SPEAKER_00: As most states have laws that if a life insurance policy is not revoked within the first two years, it's hard to revoke at all.
11:56
SPEAKER_00: And guess how long each of these men was cared for before their unfortunate passings?
12:01
SPEAKER_00: Let me guess.
12:02
SPEAKER_02: About two years.
12:03
SPEAKER_00: About two years.
12:04
SPEAKER_00: What they did not take into account was Detective Sam Mayrose, who put two and two together, and that's two years times two men.
12:13
SPEAKER_00: And he notices similarities between the policies, the two deaths and the two years past in each case.
12:19
SPEAKER_00: Helen, in the meantime, is aggressively seeking payouts, having her lawyer write threatening letters to the insurance companies who were slow to pay out.
12:28
SPEAKER_00: And the insurance company Ed was investigating for decide they're going to rescind the policies on the grounds of fraud due to inaccuracies on the applications.
12:39
SPEAKER_00: But as Ed has not been able to talk to the ladies in person, they send the rejection letters with him to deliver in person so that he will then have a chance to talk to them and they can give their case.
12:50
SPEAKER_00: But of course, these two entitled bitches don't take the chance to do that.
12:53
SPEAKER_02: Of course not.
12:55
SPEAKER_00: They are told that the insurance rep is meeting them to deliver a check.
12:58
SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
12:59
SPEAKER_00: Throw out that baby.
13:00
SPEAKER_02: This was so brilliant of them.
13:02
SPEAKER_00: Ed takes an LAPD officer with him who's wired for sound, and he goes to meet Helen first.
13:08
SPEAKER_00: She chooses to meet him at a diner where Ed hands her the letter stating that they will not be paying out the funds, and Helen flips the fuck out in the middle of the diner.
13:19
SPEAKER_00: She throws the letter and she starts yelling at Ed that this is not acceptable.
13:24
SPEAKER_00: And then she calls Olga to let her know not to go through with her meeting with Ed.
13:29
SPEAKER_00: So Ed goes to Olga's house when she doesn't turn up for the arranged meeting, and she greets him with even more spit and venom.
13:36
SPEAKER_00: She also throws the letter back at him, screams, yells, threatens to sue, threatens to call the police, even though there's a police officer standing there with him, and then threatens to throw hot water over both of them.
13:48
SPEAKER_02: Oh my God.
13:50
SPEAKER_00: At which point the police officer says, and then we'll arrest you.
13:55
SPEAKER_00: Crazy.
13:56
SPEAKER_00: At this point, Ed's business is concluded with them.
13:59
SPEAKER_00: But had it not been for Ed, the grizzly grannies may not have been discovered.
14:04
SPEAKER_00: So the police are now able to subpoena records, including bank account statements for Helen and Olga, and find out that they purchased rubber stamps of various men's signatures, including Kenneth and Paul, and over twelve more names in the last ten years.
14:21
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
14:22
SPEAKER_00: They're also able to figure out that when the ladies first met, they started with petty crimes like stealing wallets at the gym and then filing civil lawsuits over various things just to make money.
14:32
SPEAKER_00: That's what they did for a living.
14:33
SPEAKER_02: Professional rifters.
14:34
SPEAKER_00: Right?
14:35
SPEAKER_00: Eventually they come across the story of 96-year-old Fred Downey, another gentleman who was unfortunately hit by a vehicle in an alley.
14:44
SPEAKER_00: In LA?
14:45
SPEAKER_02: People don't know how to drive out there.
14:47
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
14:47
SPEAKER_00: In alleys as well.
14:48
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's not like they're at an intersectional speeding, they're just in an alley, hitting homeless people.
14:54
SPEAKER_00: Safe to live on Skid Row again, right?
14:57
SPEAKER_00: It seems he met a young lady named Keisha Gole while living in New England, and she persuaded him to move to LA into an apartment owned by her mother.
15:06
SPEAKER_00: You guessed it, Helen Golet.
15:09
SPEAKER_00: Fred was smitten with Keisha and trusted her, and he took that bait.
15:14
SPEAKER_00: He wrote letters home saying what a wonderful life he was having in LA.
15:17
SPEAKER_00: He was getting happier, losing weight, enjoying the weather.
15:21
SPEAKER_00: But then the letters start to reflect that he's actually really lonely there.
15:25
SPEAKER_00: But he's already sold his place in New England.
15:27
SPEAKER_00: He has nothing to go back to.
15:29
SPEAKER_00: And he even updated his will so Keisha would inherit everything.
15:34
SPEAKER_02: Never update your will, you guys.
15:36
SPEAKER_00: Especially not to some rando that I mean, don't move across the country with some rando either.
15:42
SPEAKER_00: But yeah.
15:43
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, and no shade to this man because he was 96 years old.
15:46
SPEAKER_02: Obviously, he was lonely, or otherwise this wouldn't have happened.
15:51
SPEAKER_02: Like the real bad guy here is people who take advantage of 96-year-old naive people.
15:56
SPEAKER_02: Fuck her.
15:58
SPEAKER_00: So then a few months later, Fred's family in New England hear that he's been killed, hit by a car.
16:04
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
16:04
SPEAKER_00: They didn't find out until the undertaker called them.
16:07
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
16:08
SPEAKER_00: That Fred had passed.
16:10
SPEAKER_00: Helen and Keisha had pre-paid his funeral, but the amount that they had paid did not cover shipping the remains back to New England.
16:17
SPEAKER_00: So they sent the bill to his family there.
16:20
SPEAKER_00: Unbelievable.
16:21
SPEAKER_00: Even though they were the ones that inherited everything Fred owned, including sentimental jewelry that had been handed down through the family that they refused to give over.
16:29
SPEAKER_02: That's just evil.
16:30
SPEAKER_02: That's not even greed.
16:31
SPEAKER_02: That's just heartlessness.
16:34
SPEAKER_00: And remember Jimmy Covington, the one who smelled a rat and got away?
16:39
SPEAKER_00: His signature was also on one of those rubber stamp company stamps.
16:44
SPEAKER_02: So in the very few days, I mean it was just a couple of days, they were already putting all these measures in place for him to be the next victim.
16:52
SPEAKER_00: Basically.
16:54
SPEAKER_00: So police decide they need to track him down for a statement, and he's just hard to find.
16:59
SPEAKER_00: So sneakily, they have his social security checks stopped to get him to surface.
17:04
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
17:04
SPEAKER_00: And he was shocked when police told him the plans that the girls had for him.
17:09
SPEAKER_00: In the few days they had interacted with him, they had applied for at least one life insurance policy and got a rubber stamp with his signature on it.
17:17
SPEAKER_02: So they're literally just going up to random men on the street and getting a life insurance policy.
17:24
SPEAKER_00: And I'm sorry, but these rubber stamp people need to do a better job of monitoring that shit.
17:30
SPEAKER_00: Like you should have to sign it in front of them with a notary or something, or you need to bring a notarized signature for it to be made into a rubber stamp.
17:37
SPEAKER_00: Because for the same person to be able to get 12 rubber stamps made of people's signatures, I mean, you've got to know there's something fishy going on.
17:45
SPEAKER_02: That's a red flag.
17:46
SPEAKER_02: You have a responsibility to society when you make something like that.
17:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
17:51
SPEAKER_00: So police are worried they don't have enough yet to arrest the girls on murder charges, but they're still under surveillance, and it's not too long before they see them meet with a new man.
18:01
SPEAKER_00: And they witness him being asked assigned forms, and they decide they've got no choice but to move in before something happens to this poor guy.
18:08
SPEAKER_00: Right.
18:08
SPEAKER_00: They don't want to find him in an alley.
18:10
SPEAKER_00: So they arrest both of them at the same time so they can actually get to each other and give each other the heads up.
18:17
SPEAKER_00: By turning up at their houses unexpectedly in the middle of the night, they have to scale a wall to get into Helen's property.
18:24
SPEAKER_00: And Olga and Olga was taken in her nightgown.
18:27
SPEAKER_02: Oh my goodness.
18:28
SPEAKER_00: They arrest them and charge them with mail and insurance fraud.
18:32
SPEAKER_00: And these devious ladies play up the grandma persona and claim to be weak.
18:37
SPEAKER_00: We have no idea what you're talking about.
18:40
SPEAKER_00: And then even Olga, who outran police earlier, is claiming to be frail and says the handcuffs are hurting.
18:47
SPEAKER_01: I have arthritis.
18:49
SPEAKER_00: After they are arrested, the police can search the homes and they find many items that help their case, such as all the receipts for the expenses they paid on Kenneth and Paul.
19:00
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
19:01
SPEAKER_00: Like they're logging this like a business.
19:03
SPEAKER_02: Pretty incriminating, y'all.
19:04
SPEAKER_00: Profit and loss.
19:05
SPEAKER_00: However, the girls put their own nail in their coffin when the police put them in an interrogation room together with video and audio recording, and Olga starts to blame Helen for taking out too many policies.
19:19
SPEAKER_00: Helen says, I do not want to talk to you here, and I'll be asked to move to another room if you don't shut up.
19:24
SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
19:25
SPEAKER_02: I thought that was so funny, though, that Olga was like, You got too greedy.
19:28
SPEAKER_02: This is your fault.
19:29
SPEAKER_02: You can't do that many insurances to crack me up.
19:34
SPEAKER_00: Like, do you not know where you are?
19:35
SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
19:36
SPEAKER_00: It seems these ladies got greedy enough to turn on each other.
19:40
SPEAKER_00: As Helen had taken out policies that Olga knew nothing about and was trying to remove Olga's name from some of the joint policies.
19:49
SPEAKER_00: And she makes it sound like she's trying to remove Olga's name before Olga does the same to her.
19:56
SPEAKER_00: But what Olga had been doing was actually trying to turn in Helen for insurance fraud.
20:03
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
20:04
SPEAKER_02: This is the thing about deplorable people.
20:06
SPEAKER_02: Like when they get together, eventually, they're gonna turn on each other.
20:10
SPEAKER_02: It's their nature.
20:11
SPEAKER_00: Right.
20:13
SPEAKER_00: So as police listen in, these grizzly grannies are only discussing the insurance policies, and there's no mention of murder, death.
20:21
SPEAKER_00: So detectives drop into the conversation that there's also a murder investigation to try and rattle them, but it doesn't work.
20:28
SPEAKER_00: When left alone again, they just continue to bicker out policies.
20:31
SPEAKER_00: Olga just goes back to telling Helen you're too greedy, you're taking out too many policies.
20:36
SPEAKER_00: But one fact that does get the police's attention is evidence of drugs found on the top screen of Kenneth's body that match some drugs that were found during the search of the women's homes.
20:49
SPEAKER_00: Possibly used to sedate him so they could run him over.
20:55
SPEAKER_00: So they decide that to try and link the two deaths, they're gonna have Paul's body exhumed to be tested, but he is found to be drug-free.
21:04
SPEAKER_00: So that was a dead end.
21:06
SPEAKER_00: But detectives aren't giving up.
21:08
SPEAKER_00: They start to look for a surveillance video of the alley in which Kenneth was found, and strike it lucky, on several cameras that show a car going into the alley, suspiciously turning off the lights for a few minutes.
21:21
SPEAKER_00: They speculate probably that's when they've got Kenneth out of the car.
21:25
SPEAKER_00: And then it leaves the scene at around the time Kenneth died.
21:30
SPEAKER_00: They can't see the license plate, but they can tell that it is a silver station wagon.
21:34
SPEAKER_00: And before leaving the scene, the car is seen driving out of the alley, backing up again into the alley, driving out again, and then stopping as if to check on something.
21:44
SPEAKER_00: Like making sure their target was successfully hit.
21:47
SPEAKER_02: That just it makes me sick.
21:49
SPEAKER_00: So while searching Helen's Mercedes, they find a post it note with some information about a 1999 silver mercury sable with a partial bin number, and they realize.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: That could match that car.
22:01
SPEAKER_00: They're able to track down the rest of the number and trace the car, and it turns out to have been impounded after being found abandoned near Helen's apartment.
22:11
SPEAKER_00: They find the dealer who sold the car to someone fitting Olga's description.
22:16
SPEAKER_00: However, she showed an ID with a different name on, and that ID actually belonged to another member of their gym who reportedly had her purse stolen from the gym on a day that Helen's daughter Keisha happened to be working.
22:30
SPEAKER_02: This threw me for a loop.
22:33
SPEAKER_02: They were clever.
22:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:36
SPEAKER_00: Well, they thought they were.
22:37
SPEAKER_02: They thought they were.
22:38
SPEAKER_00: They thought they were.
22:39
SPEAKER_02: They got too many insurance pops.
22:41
SPEAKER_02: I know.
22:43
SPEAKER_00: Note to listeners, don't get too many insurance.
22:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, just one, maybe two, two max.
22:47
SPEAKER_00: Um, so police turn the car over to what they call forensic mechanics.
22:52
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
22:52
SPEAKER_02: I thought that was so interesting.
22:54
SPEAKER_02: I had no idea that.
22:56
SPEAKER_00: Forensic mechanics.
22:57
SPEAKER_00: In the hopes of finding Helena Olga's fingerprints or DNA, but they unfortunately don't find any.
23:02
SPEAKER_00: However, they do find some red paint on the car, which turns out to be valuable later.
23:08
SPEAKER_00: But we're actually going to explain that part in the after show, which is usually only available to subscribers, but we're going to release this after show for everybody because there's just so much information and it's so juicy.
23:20
SPEAKER_00: And then y'all can get a little taste of the type of additional content that subscribers receive.
23:25
SPEAKER_00: What do you think, Tina?
23:26
SPEAKER_00: Shall we do that?
23:27
SPEAKER_02: We absolutely should.
23:28
SPEAKER_00: I think that'll be awesome.
23:30
SPEAKER_00: So if you want to know why the red paint was on the car, listen to the after show because it's free for you this week.
23:35
SPEAKER_00: Yay! Yay! Now, this particular vehicle only sits about six inches off the ground.
23:40
SPEAKER_00: So they inspect the underneath of the vehicle and find some blood.
23:45
SPEAKER_00: Some of the floor panels have been pushed up, but most noticeably there was a shoddy repair to the gas tank where something had hit it and it had become dislodged enough to stop the car from operating, most likely from running over something large, like a head.
24:03
SPEAKER_00: This reminds them of a call to AAA on Helen's phone records made on that same night when she needed a car just like this one, towed due to being inoperable.
24:14
SPEAKER_00: I can you imagine how much they were bitching that night?
24:17
SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah, they definitely were.
24:19
SPEAKER_02: They were like, God damn it, why did this happen?
24:21
SPEAKER_00: Then the biggie.
24:22
SPEAKER_00: The blood comes back from the DNA testing as a match to Kenneth.
24:29
SPEAKER_00: They now have a murder weapon, and they can charge Helen and Olga with murder.
24:34
SPEAKER_00: They had evidence that Olga had bought the car and that Helen had towed the car the night of the murder.
24:40
SPEAKER_00: So the police set up a little reenactment of the night of the murder.
24:45
SPEAKER_00: And assuming the car would have died after hitting Kenneth due to the gas tank being dislodged, there was enough of a slope that Helen could have rolled the car down the road to the Chevron station from where she had it towed.
25:00
SPEAKER_02: Which, like, what a stroke of luck for her that it just happened to be on a hill.
25:05
SPEAKER_02: But wow, like that's some tenacity from this woman.
25:11
SPEAKER_00: So now we move on to the trial.
25:13
SPEAKER_00: The prosecutors had so much evidence.
25:16
SPEAKER_00: They have the car, the DNA, the insurance policies, they have Jimmy, the one that got away as a witness.
25:22
SPEAKER_00: They have the rubber stamps and more.
25:25
SPEAKER_00: But then it goes to the defense, and and how can they deny all this?
25:29
SPEAKER_00: Well, Helen's lawyer doesn't even try.
25:31
SPEAKER_00: He admits that all the evidence is there except one definitive evidence of who was driving the car.
25:38
SPEAKER_00: And he claims it was Keisha, Helen's daughter.
25:42
SPEAKER_02: This, okay, so when I was listening to the to the Dateline podcast on this, and they said that they were like really playing up, oh, what's the defense gonna be?
25:53
SPEAKER_02: And like it's the most deplorable thing.
25:55
SPEAKER_02: And so immediately I thought, oh, well, the most deplorable thing she could possibly do is blame it on her daughter, but surely not.
26:02
SPEAKER_02: Like, there's no way that's actually what she did.
26:04
SPEAKER_02: But that's actually what she did.
26:06
SPEAKER_02: Like, just when you think they can't go lower, they go lower.
26:09
SPEAKER_00: Oh yes, these grizzly gran grannies will stop at nothing, including throwing their own family members under the station wagon.
26:17
SPEAKER_02: Which obviously her daughter kind of was somewhat involved, but there wasn't a lot of information, right?
26:23
SPEAKER_02: Because I looked it up too, and I couldn't find a whole lot on the daughter.
26:27
SPEAKER_02: But she she's the one that catfished poor Jimmy in.
26:31
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
26:31
SPEAKER_02: So, like, she was doing something.
26:33
SPEAKER_02: She stole um the lady's bag from the gym.
26:36
SPEAKER_02: So she was involved in some way.
26:38
SPEAKER_02: Maybe she was driving the car.
26:40
SPEAKER_02: Or did we ever prove?
26:41
SPEAKER_00: I don't understand why they didn't ask the tow truck driver because it was Helen's triple A policy, but they said anyone could have called and claimed on her triple A.
26:49
SPEAKER_00: But don't you have to stay with the car until the tow truck gets there?
26:51
SPEAKER_00: Why couldn't they have identified her?
26:53
SPEAKER_00: I don't know why they didn't call the tow truck driver in to identify maybe I don't know.
26:59
SPEAKER_02: But in any case, Keisha was involved in in some ways.
27:03
SPEAKER_00: Right.
27:03
SPEAKER_00: So they say it was Keisha, after all, who stole the license and she used Helen's triple A account to get the car towed.
27:09
SPEAKER_00: They have no evidence of this, but as we've heard so many times before, the defense doesn't need to prove anything.
27:14
SPEAKER_00: They just need to throw out enough reasonable doubt.
27:17
SPEAKER_00: Now, Olga's lawyer, he just decides we're just gonna put all the blame on Helen.
27:22
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
27:22
SPEAKER_02: I mean, yeah, that's that's what I would do.
27:25
SPEAKER_00: So after deliberation, the jury comes back for the decision on some charges, but they're hung on others.
27:31
SPEAKER_00: Helen is found guilty of conspiracy to murder and first-degree murder of both Kenneth and Paul, but the jury are hung on the charges against Olga.
27:42
SPEAKER_00: So the judge decides to let both sides do new closing arguments and send the jury back to deliberate some more.
27:50
SPEAKER_00: And after one hour, they come back and declare Olga guilty of the same four charges as Helen.
27:58
SPEAKER_00: They are both sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole.
28:02
SPEAKER_00: Now, when Dateline did their podcast series about them, they reached out to Helen and Olga in prison for comment for the podcast.
28:09
SPEAKER_00: Olga just didn't respond.
28:10
SPEAKER_00: Helen not only responded, but she claimed to have evidence to prove her innocence and asked Dateline to cover her legal fees to pursue them, which of course they denied.
28:22
SPEAKER_02: That was so funny.
28:24
SPEAKER_02: Like the audacity, it knows no bounds.
28:27
SPEAKER_00: Now Helen passed away in prison in January 2023 at the age of nine to two after spending 15 years inside.
28:34
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
28:35
SPEAKER_00: Um, Olga was a little harder to trace.
28:37
SPEAKER_00: There are reports that she's passed away and there are reports that she's still in, but I think she kept such a low profile, whereas Helen was still like, I didn't know.
28:46
SPEAKER_02: I think that Olga, I think she still kick in.
28:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
28:50
SPEAKER_02: I don't know, I could be totally wrong.
28:52
SPEAKER_02: This is probably very easily fact-checked.
28:54
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
28:54
SPEAKER_02: No, but I tried official records.
28:56
SPEAKER_00: No, I guess.
28:57
SPEAKER_02: But I I don't know.
28:58
SPEAKER_02: But and to me, and they're both murderers, they're both horrible, they got what they deserved.
29:03
SPEAKER_02: But I think the reason that the jury was possibly hung on Olga is honestly, she's just more likable than Helen was.
29:12
SPEAKER_02: Like Helen was just awful, right?
29:16
SPEAKER_00: Right.
29:16
SPEAKER_00: But I think I think um Olga was a bit more of a like genuine everyday person.
29:21
SPEAKER_00: So they describe her as like the muscle and Helen as the money.
29:26
SPEAKER_00: Right.
29:27
SPEAKER_00: And they said Helen always had Bouffont hair dripping with jewelry.
29:30
SPEAKER_00: She was um she had plastic surgery.
29:33
SPEAKER_00: Have you seen pictures of them?
29:34
SPEAKER_00: I haven't.
29:35
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I need to show you pictures.
29:37
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
29:37
SPEAKER_01: We'll have to post something on Facebook that is.
29:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, you can tell she had typical LA plastic surgery for somebody that was in her 70s.
29:45
SPEAKER_00: It looks she looks constantly surprised.
29:47
SPEAKER_02: No, I hate that.
29:50
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, two very different people, and definitely Olga was was the more likable.
29:54
SPEAKER_00: I mean, Helen did have that poor, unfortunate beginning, but that's no excuse.
29:58
SPEAKER_00: No.
29:58
SPEAKER_00: Um, Keisha Gillet was never formally charged with anything.
30:02
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
30:04
SPEAKER_02: Well, I guess they, and this is something that does tend to happen a lot with police investigations, is they feel like we got the guy in prison, we're done, we're moving on to other things.
30:16
SPEAKER_02: Which, like, I I understand because I know their resources are stretched very thin.
30:20
SPEAKER_02: But also, Keisha could still be out there doing stuff like this right now.
30:26
SPEAKER_00: I mean, hopefully she saw her mom go to prison and she didn't I don't know.
30:30
SPEAKER_02: People like that tend to not learn those lessons.
30:33
SPEAKER_02: I mean, let's just all hope that she's not.
30:36
SPEAKER_02: Maybe she got a job and she's being nice.
30:38
SPEAKER_00: But they didn't have any record of where she is now.
30:40
SPEAKER_00: Apparently, she's keeping a low profile.
30:42
SPEAKER_00: The lady who had her purse stolen was actually quite upset that the police were called when her wallet was stolen or her bag was stolen from the gym, but no report was ever filed.
30:54
SPEAKER_00: Probably because Keisha was working that day.
30:56
SPEAKER_00: Right.
30:57
SPEAKER_00: And so was like, oh no, we don't need to do that or whatever.
31:00
SPEAKER_00: So because that was never filed as a police report of theft, that's why she got away with that.
31:08
SPEAKER_02: Right.
31:08
SPEAKER_00: Um, although the lady probably regretted that after her ID was used in this whole scheme.
31:13
SPEAKER_00: And I guess luring bed didn't really break any laws.
31:18
SPEAKER_00: He went of his own free will.
31:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's true.
31:20
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, she was never formally charged with anything.
31:23
SPEAKER_00: Hopefully, she saw what happened to Mama and decided it wasn't worth a life of crime.
31:28
SPEAKER_02: And I wonder if that destroyed their relationship between Helen and Keisha, or if her daughter was just like, no, I get it.
31:37
SPEAKER_02: Do what you gotta do.
31:39
SPEAKER_00: It would certainly destroy mine if somebody tried to throw me under the bus for that.
31:44
SPEAKER_02: But I'm not a sociopath.
31:45
SPEAKER_02: And I think something obviously is wrong with them that they could do this.
31:49
SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't be like, Yeah, I get it.
31:50
SPEAKER_00: You've got to blame somebody.
31:51
SPEAKER_00: I'd be like, bitch.
31:52
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, I would be like, uh uh.
31:54
SPEAKER_00: You is my mother.
31:55
SPEAKER_00: You're supposed to be protecting me at all costs.
31:57
SPEAKER_02: And it didn't even work.
31:59
SPEAKER_02: Like they were still charged.
32:01
SPEAKER_02: So all this.
32:02
SPEAKER_00: The jury obviously saw right through that because they didn't have any problem convicting Helen.
32:07
SPEAKER_00: They were straight back with Helen.
32:08
SPEAKER_00: It was Olga's um lawyer that almost had them fall.
32:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
32:13
SPEAKER_00: And I think it was just a reasonable doubt thing.
32:15
SPEAKER_00: I don't think that they thought she didn't do it.
32:18
SPEAKER_00: There was just not the same amount of proof as there was for Helen.
32:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, Helen was the one driving the car, obviously.
32:25
SPEAKER_00: And Helen was the one taking out all the additional policies.
32:29
SPEAKER_02: I mean she even said that on the police video.
32:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
32:33
SPEAKER_02: You got too greedy.
32:35
SPEAKER_02: You can't do that many insurances.
32:37
SPEAKER_00: It seems to be a theme in all of our podcasts and how dumb these criminals are.
32:41
SPEAKER_02: Yes, which I mean, I guess it's like, I don't know.
32:43
SPEAKER_02: I I can't imagine committing these crimes, but I'm sure it would be very hard to keep up with all your lies.
32:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
32:51
SPEAKER_00: Let's just hope you have to be fairly dumb to choose a life of crime in the first place.
32:54
SPEAKER_00: Right, exactly.
32:55
SPEAKER_02: Right.
32:57
SPEAKER_00: All right.
32:57
SPEAKER_00: Anything more to say on them?
32:59
SPEAKER_00: Do you know any other story, anything like that?
33:02
SPEAKER_00: Like it's bizarre.
33:04
SPEAKER_02: I know.
33:05
SPEAKER_02: Not from women in their 70s.
33:07
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely not.
33:09
SPEAKER_00: When I first heard it, I was like, it's actually a genius idea because who's gonna miss the homeless people when they're gone?
33:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:18
SPEAKER_00: And you assume that they don't have any family that's looking out for them or they wouldn't be homeless.
33:22
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
33:23
SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, I did think it was a very I don't want to give too much kudos because it was a horrible scheme, but it's well, I think that's a that's a predator's mindset.
33:37
SPEAKER_02: It's like the Gilgo beach killer and many, many, many other serial killers and serial predators, they go after the most vulnerable.
33:47
SPEAKER_02: So like he went after women that were sex workers because oh, if you're a sex worker, obviously you wouldn't be doing sex work if you had a family who cared about you and had stability.
33:59
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, they go after the most vulnerable, and I it's despicable.
34:04
SPEAKER_02: And while yes, it is smart, it's also you can't be more evil, you just can't.
34:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
34:10
SPEAKER_00: I'm glad that you told me how that was pronounced.
34:12
SPEAKER_00: What?
34:13
SPEAKER_00: Gig Giggle?
34:14
SPEAKER_00: Gilgo.
34:15
SPEAKER_00: Gilgo, because every time I see it, I think giggle.
34:18
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, the gigolo killer?
34:21
SPEAKER_02: He could not be a giggelo.
34:22
SPEAKER_02: Have you seen him?
34:23
SPEAKER_02: Oh.
34:24
SPEAKER_02: He looks like a monster.
34:25
SPEAKER_02: He he's scary looking.
34:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
34:28
SPEAKER_02: Ugh.
34:29
SPEAKER_02: Anyway.
34:30
SPEAKER_00: Anyway.
34:30
SPEAKER_02: Back to the topic at hand.
34:33
SPEAKER_00: No gigglos here.
34:35
SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, so that's it on our Grizzly Grannies of LA.
34:40
SPEAKER_00: It was one that I was like, we have to cover this because it's not your everyday husband cheated on wife had an affair and had her killed murder story, which you know we like to cover as well.
34:52
SPEAKER_02: But that's a tale as old as time.
34:54
SPEAKER_02: This one, however, not so much.
34:58
SPEAKER_00: Literally.
34:58
SPEAKER_02: No, literally.
35:02
SPEAKER_00: All right, guys.
35:03
SPEAKER_00: Um I'm not even sure what we're doing next week, but maybe by the time we do the after show, we'll figure it out.
35:09
SPEAKER_02: No, we we do know.
35:10
SPEAKER_00: Oh, we do?
35:11
SPEAKER_00: Oh, have you definitely decided?
35:12
SPEAKER_02: I'm definitely doing the Gilgo beat the internet.
35:15
SPEAKER_00: No, not the gig.
35:17
SPEAKER_02: Not the gigolo.
35:18
SPEAKER_02: He's not a gigolo.
35:20
SPEAKER_00: Giggle.
35:22
SPEAKER_00: Gilgo.
35:22
SPEAKER_00: Gilgo.
35:23
SPEAKER_00: G-I-L-G-O.
35:25
SPEAKER_00: Gilgo.
35:25
SPEAKER_00: Gilgo.
35:26
SPEAKER_00: Gilgo.
35:27
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
35:27
SPEAKER_00: Come back next for Gilgo and I'll try not to mispronounce it in the actual episode.
35:31
SPEAKER_00: But remember, your after show for this one is available to everybody.
35:36
SPEAKER_00: So if you want to know what an after show sounds like, tune in, listen to us today.
35:40
SPEAKER_00: Um, we've got actually several facts that we did not put in to the main story just because there was so much crammed in there already.
35:48
SPEAKER_00: So if you want more on this story, more juicy little tidbits.
35:52
SPEAKER_00: How could you not?
35:52
SPEAKER_00: How could you not?
35:54
SPEAKER_00: Right?
35:54
SPEAKER_00: Uh tune in to the after show.
35:56
SPEAKER_00: But until then, be divas.
35:59
SPEAKER_00: Not deadly.
36:00
SPEAKER_00: Bye.