Latest / Dear Divorce Diary: A Fresh Approach To Healing Grief & Building A Life Of Confidence After Divorce / 41. Facing Your Dark Side to Build Confidence and Heal Divorce Grief

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41. Facing Your Dark Side to Build Confidence and Heal Divorce Grief · Dear Divorce Diary: A Fresh Approach To Healing Grief & Building A Life Of Confidence After Divorce

• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Hi, love, this is Dawn and you're listening to Dear Divorce Diary with my coach, dawn, where we explore the post-divorce life and you, the woman who lives it.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: We cover everything from trauma during and after divorce to feeling like a stranger in your own life and the new frontier of life as a single woman.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: We're cozy in for the conversations we've been longing to have about this new life.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: Hi, loves, today I am so excited to bring to you an amazing guest, winnie Chan Wang.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: She is a beautiful soul and I am convinced that her and I were just separated at birth.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: There is so much about her work and my work and the transmutation of our pain that is so aligned and so beautiful, and I am so excited to be sitting with her right now.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: Winnie, welcome.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: I'm actually crying right now for those who are just listening and don't know, just because you know when you feel this divine alignment, when everything is coming together and there's this sense of overwhelming joy and gratitude, just to be here with all of you today.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: And you know I had some very difficult challenges in my life.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: You know I wrote a book about this.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: My book is called Honoring Darkness, and you know I started with my childhood trauma and then I had a rape and then I had a divorce and then I had parental alienation, and I don't know if everyone in the audience know what parental alienation is, but parental alienation is that during the divorce process when one parent says something bad about the other parent and then you know the trust is broken, causing that the daughter says I don't want to have a relationship with you, you are not my mother and you have no right to talk to me, right?
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: So for me those were some very, very dark times in my life.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: You know, i remember spending Mother's Day like eating breakfast by myself, and I remember like another Mother's Day where neither of my daughter wanted to spend 60 seconds with me, so they wouldn't even eat in silence across from me on a table for 60 seconds And Winnie this is the power of your message, because to have moved from there to where you are today in my opinion relatively quickly right to have transformed that the deepest pain I can imagine to the power that you are bringing to us today, it's a miracle.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: You know it's really funny because I love spirituality, I actually read the Bible every day.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: I absolutely love Jesus.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: And I also love Kuan Yin, i love all kinds of Buddhist meditation, i love the Tao, the Jinyin, i practice the Tao, i practice yoga, all kinds of yoga philosophy.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: So I'm just a lover of spirituality.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: Same girl, same, okay.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: So what I wanted to say was, if you picture the Tao symbol, which has the black fish and the white fish and the black dot and the white dot, you will begin to see the black dot, you will begin to notice something which is within the black fish.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: There is a white dot, and what that means is, no matter how dark it is, there is light somewhere.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: And that's why the full title of my book is called Embrace Shadow Work to Nourish and Grow Your Power, because it is when you are navigating the dark times that you discover your source light.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: And it's so funny because now I'm writing my second book.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: It's called Unlocking Light.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: So my first book is about all the shadow that I faced after the divorce And then now I'm doing the white fish part.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: right, That has the spot of dark in it.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: So basically and life is just that cycle We have this hero's journey.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: When we go dark and when we come back up, we serve humanity, And then there will be another challenge And then we can just get stronger and stronger.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: And the message is really to my beloved audience is a message of hope and resilience, knowing that there is this really deep source power that is in us.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: Always with us.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: Always Exactly And it is, and not be extinguished.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: Exactly, exactly.
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: It was really funny because my acupuncture mentor one time I was really devastated after the divorce and having the parental alienation And I'm crying And then he's like Winnie cut it.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: I freaking love that.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: Exactly Because, as an acupuncturist, we insert needles into people, right?
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: So he just wanted to penetrate my bullshit.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: He's still.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: He's still.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: So you know what he said.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: He said Winnie, let me tell you something.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: I said okay, what is it?
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: Who you are cannot be broken, right, right.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: The word heartbroken is not actually possible because you know so.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: In the heart sutra, which is the Buddhist text, it talks about who we really are cannot be born and cannot die Right.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: Virgil beings having a human experience.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: Exactly, exactly.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: So you know, my acupuncture mentor is like cut your bullshit.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: Okay, winnie, you're.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: You cannot be heartbroken.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: Okay, That is how do you say it?
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: It's kind of like this The sun is always there.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: You might not see it because it's covered by dark clouds, but the sun is always there.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: It doesn't cease to be Right.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, in EMDR therapy, when I'm working with clients around their psyche right, it's the self.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: The self is eternal, it's unaffected by the traumas, it's untouched, it's our highest awareness, right, and we talk about finding the self in the pain, because it's stable, it's short, it's steady.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, and you know the way I love EMDR and explain it to other people.
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: a lot of my clients.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: they come to me because I specialize in removing trauma from the body because, the trauma is stored in the physical organs like heart, lung, kidney, spleen, liver.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: So by using acupuncture you can.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: It's like hiring a plumber.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: I say you, hire me.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: You're like hiring a plumber, okay.
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: To like unclog the shit Exactly.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: Exactly So.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: My job is to diagnose which pipe is clogged, which organ is clogged, and then I unclog you right.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: So and our modalities work especially well together.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: right, Someone comes to me and unclogs a bunch of stuff from the mind, and then it can get hung up on its way out right In the spleen or the kidney or wherever Exactly.
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: So a lot of people come to me and they say, oh, can I really graduate from my trauma?
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: And I take a moment and I laugh because it's like yes and no.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: It's like this Can you undo a rape?
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: You know, if you went to war and you lost a leg, can you unloose a leg?
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: So there's a part of the trauma where, if you have a white sheet of paper and there's ink on it, there's always going to be ink on it, right.
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: Like you can't say, okay, the rape didn't happen or I didn't go to war, i didn't lose a leg, right.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: It's a part of the trauma that is real and always going to be there.
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: But events are actually neutral And what you do with that ink on the paper?
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: The belief system about it You can make it into the most beautiful art.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: So what I hear people asking you when they're asking, can I graduate from my trauma?
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: is really can I live in an illusion of perfection?
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: No, no, you can't.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: You know what I call this in our book is we can't avoid the lemons in life, but we can make lemonade out of our life right, and so you know, consider this right.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: Is world war bad or good?
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, i think most people will say wars are bad.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: However, before World War, i all countries women stayed at home, and it was because every man that's able to pick up a weapon was drafted to fight in the war, and so the women entered the workforce.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: So think about all the generations under patriarchy where women could be, you know, domestically abused by their husband.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: Liberation through loss.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: And exactly So, even though, yes, world war was terrible, a lot of lives were lost, but it also created opportunity, which is, women entered the workforce for the first time, and that created financial independence for women so they could start having divorces and leave unhappy marriages.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: Preach.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: I relate to so much to liberation through loss.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: I think that's why I love the moment in time of divorce that I just am so inspired to work with, because liberation through loss, it is the truth, it's how I found my highest self, it's how I started the healing journey.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: I think we share that story.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: Exactly, And that's why everybody needs to book and work with Coach Don.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: You know why?
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: And they should also work with me and book me.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: You know because a lot of clients come to me and they said, Winnie, can you help me lose weight?
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: I said yeah, sure, Okay, but if you're going to eat 21 cheeseburger, there's nothing I can do for you.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: The best acupuncturist cannot overcome the fact that you eat 21 cheeseburger.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: Okay, mm-hmm.
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: So the body keeps the score.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: So you want to see an acupuncturist to help you move the physical, stuck energy in your organs, in your shoulder, your hips, your knees, your ankles.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: But if you don't change your mind, then in three days, you keep generating more.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: The pain is just going to come back, right.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: So everyone should work with a person like Coach Don so that they can have the mindset shifts, mm-hmm, so that they stop generating the junk.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: And everybody should have an acupuncturist, so that the acupuncturist is like the plumber that helps you fly, so leaning it out and keep it clean, plus the toilet, exactly exactly.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: I love it When you tell us more about your journey through divorce and that mother-daughter relationship that you mentioned, because I know that.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: And also, how interesting is it both of us healers not fully integrated when we began healing.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: Healing work right, we both have been functioning as healers, but not fully integrated.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: And then here's the story of transformation.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: It's so beautiful.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: I just know that your clients get so much more from you now that you've done this work.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you for saying that.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: So it's really funny because I became a Reiki healer in 2017.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: And in the beginning I was just love and light, okay, mm-hmm, i was chanting mantras.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: I relate.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: I relate, and that's not to say it's not good because I was able to put love and light into the needles, which made the acupuncture more powerful.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: However, i was still really judgmental And I was telling everybody what's wrong with them And to the extent that my daughter would call me out, she would say you say one thing and do another right?
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: And at the time it was so hard for me to believe And one of the things my daughter kept saying to me would be mom, you don't ever listen to me and I don't feel like I matter to you, i don't feel important.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: And she said that for years and it was really hard for me to understand.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: But now I understand right, because I grew up with parents who were always right, right, my father.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: If my father and mother and I disagree on something, then my parents are always right and I'm always wrong.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: So relatable So relatable.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: Exactly So.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: And as a child, one of my core wounds is that I don't feel heard, i don't feel understood.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: I feel so alone, i feel so like I don't matter.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: So of course we carry that forward as mothers.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: Exactly, exactly.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: So.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: it's so funny because here I am.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: I remember thinking, okay, if I ever become a mother, then I'm not going to do what my parents did to me, right?
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: But it's so funny because it's hard.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: It's really hard to be so honest in your shadow.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: And it's not until I had a divorce, when my ego was completely crushed, when I finally stopped what I call spiritual bypassing which is pretending I'm better than other people because I chant mantras, I meditate, I practice Reiki.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: So what brought me down to my knees was the fact that, okay, Winnie, you say you practice love and you practice forgiveness and you help all these clients, but look at your own relationship.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: What does the data say?
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: right, The data says that you don't have.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: It's not cute, it's not cute, no, no it's not good.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: The report card doesn't look so great.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: But I relate to what you're saying so much that there are these promises I made with myself that I was not going to get divorced and I was not going to raise my kid a certain way, and I was right.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: And then when we get confronted with hard data that says I did the thing I said I wasn't going to do, it's like there's a reckoning there and that, oh must not be, so I am doing the thing.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: Exactly So.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: The moment My ex-husband said I no longer want to do the work to be in a relationship with you, and I think seven days later I suddenly just had this light bulb moment when I realized every single thing I ever complained about him is in me right.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: So, I love pointing the finger and blaming him like you're an angry person No, actually I'm the angry person.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: You're judgmental?
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: No, actually I'm judgmental.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: You're selfish?
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: No, actually I'm selfish, you know.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: And so it was actually a very informative exercise after the divorce, where I wrote down every single thing I cannot stand about my ex-husband, and then I simply changed the word he to I.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: You walk us through this exercise in the book.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes yes, and it was so powerful.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: It really brought me down to my knees because, of course, every relationship is a mirror, right?
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: So my ex-husband is really my mirror in showing me how I'm angry, i'm selfish, i'm judgmental And I feel like one of my core wounds is no matter what I do, i'm not good enough for him, whatever he does.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: It's not good enough for me.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: And so, within seven days of you two parting ways, you came to that awareness.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: Yes, i did this exercise of writing every single thing.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: Amazing.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: I just stand about him and then cross the heave with the changes.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: I.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: And what was that moment like when you were sitting with that?
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: What did it feel like to be in your body in that moment?
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: You know, it was really interesting because I was hiking and I was at a river, so I stood in the middle of the river and I just screamed and cried and yelled and just put all of that, allow the flow of the river to move me.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: And you know so I actually wrote the letter standing on my iPhone, really While I was in the middle of the river Yes, wow, wow.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: And so that a moment like that, while it's deeply painful, there's so much shame in a moment like that that's moving right.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: So much shame.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: However, I've always found the silver lining to that moment to be so much empowerment, because if it's me, I can do something about that.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: But when it comes to shame, I gotta say, nothing beats parenting shame.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: Because the way I look at this is I can have all this shame around the divorce.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: And let me tell you something I am the first person to get a divorce in my generation my parents' generation, my grandparents' generation.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: I come from a culture where you do not get a divorce.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: And there are some cultural considerations, right You?
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: yes, i get that.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: So yeah, exactly, So this day I remain the only person the token person who has ever gone to divorce.
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: So let me tell you that the divorce shame is real.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: It was legit for you.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: It was so bad that I couldn't even tell my parents I was getting a divorce.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: That makes sense to me.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: That makes sense to me that that's how powerful, how physically palpable the shame was for you.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: So just a funny joke.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: You know now, right?
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, i texted them I'm getting a divorce with John, and then they called me for the next 10 days and I just could not pick up the phone, couldn't answer No, no, no, that makes sense.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: Exactly So.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: I couldn't deliver the news, i could only text it And then I could not pick up the phone because I didn't want to answer the question.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: What did he do?
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: What did you do?
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: What did you try?
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: Like I'm like mom, dad, like I cannot answer your questions, like I need to create this really safe container for me right now.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: To move through this.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: Exactly, exactly.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: But I do want to talk about parental shame, because to me, no matter how bad the divorce shame is, that's so yesterday, because you find a new girlfriend or boyfriend and it's a new relationship, right.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: But then you know, to me, boyfriend, girlfriend, it's kind of like a winter jacket.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: You take off this winter jacket, you get a new winter jacket.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: Hey, you don't have to look at the old jacket anymore.
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: But your children?
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: in the big book of AA, they call that a geographical solution, right?
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: It's like oh, maybe it's the relationship's fault or the yeah, the jacket's fault, right, but yeah.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: But children is not something you can just write off, you could just swap out.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: No, you cannot just take off the jacket again in your jacket.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: You only have little truth tellers with their truth serum.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: The children.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: You don't get to be like trade in a different set of children.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: You don't get to pretend you can just walk away with this relationship and start a new one.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: No, your children.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: It's like the report card of how you yeah exactly So good.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: So your relationship with your children, oh, also, to a large extent, whether your children are judgmental, whether they have compassion, whether they have anxiety, depression, addiction.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: Okay, not entirely our fault, but I like to say 20% 20% percent, that's the parents contribution.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: Contribution.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: So you know, of course, i think that you know.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: there's this phrase like don't take things personally right.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: Because, you know, if our children is bullied at school, well, we don't get to control what happens at school, right?
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: And then I also believe that children come with their own personalities and past life, karma and all the incestral stuff DNA, genetically, spiritually, exactly Yeah.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: So we don't get to control if there's COVID or no COVID.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: Right, we don't get to control if we're in the lockdown or no lockdown.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: So when our children have anxiety, i tell my clients you're 20% responsible, so know that you can do something.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: But even if you try your absolute best, it doesn't mean that anxiety can go away, even if you are a rescuer and you put in everything you got, because 80% is beyond your control.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: Their own journey.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: Their own journey, yeah, yeah, i have learned this has been one of my greatest learnings in the last year is truly like law of attraction framework the happier I am, the better I am at regulating my own emotional experiences, the more open my heart is.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: She mirrors that.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: Exactly, there's actually science.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so, yeah.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: So the science is that the prefrontal cortex is not fully developed until they're 25.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: So, literally every time if you have children under the age of 25, and they're flipping out, they don't even have the hardware to do it.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: So they actually rely on mirror neurons?
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: Aha, and so it's all about the parents, it's all about the parents nervous system.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so exactly.
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: So if the parents is calm, then they, their mirror neuron is going to pick up on our calmness and they're not going to have anxiety and react.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: That's what I mean.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: The parent is 20% responsible.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: That's amazing.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: I don't, i can't believe.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: I've never heard it that way before.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: So when we think about attachment style, it's not.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: Attachment style doesn't just come from purely attachment activating events, it's also just from being with your parents, attachment style.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: So it's interesting about this is it's independent of whether the child has a good relationship with the parent or not, and so what I mean is this there's a phrase that says you are the five closest people you've worked with, and what that means is we're all spiritual beings.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: So that means it's kind of like okay, if my daughter caught COVID, she comes home.
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: I can very easily catch COVID from her.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: If my daughter is angry or have anxiety, i can very easily catch that.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: Right, because things like anger, anxiety, fear, grief, these things are emotional viruses, Whereas, COVID, you can take a test and two slides means you're positive.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: We really should be aware of you know it's kind of like yeah, what viral load we're shedding emotionally, whether it's on the upper end of the scale or the lower end of the scale.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: so, for example, if I'm coughing, I really should stay home and not give my give my germs to other people.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: So when I'm angry, I really should ground and meditate and come back to calmness before I have a conversation with my children, Right, because why would I want to give them my anger?
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: You?
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: put a quote in the beginning of your book that just like hit me upside the head this weekend about when attachment trumps authenticity.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: That quote that spoke about And you also put a quote in there about how the patriarchy has valued perfectionism and driving over groundedness right, and those two things kind of came together in my mind this weekend, recognizing how, when I am not prioritizing groundedness, i'm prioritizing perfection.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: How that's affected my daughter, right, that, wow, those are just such powerful thoughts.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: Then she divorces herself from her own authenticity and she prioritizes the attachment.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: She wants to keep me happy, she wants to keep me pleased.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: This is why she cheated on her spelling test last quarter, right, because she wanted to prioritize pleasing me versus the authenticity of not knowing the answers.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: And that 20% that I contributed that caused her to feel insecure in the attachment and then shoved down her little truth.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: I got the good news for you, though.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: Tell me She's eight so you can still help her.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: There's time, there's time.
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: You know, one of my favorite things to say is a lot of our wiring, our subconscious, is formed between zero to seven.
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: So it's really funny because my spiritual awakening the very first time happened when my kids were seven and nine.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: So I'm like, oh crap, i missed the window.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: And I was there.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: It's closer to be able to harness.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: It really is.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: And whenever I have clients come in and their children and two, you know, they have like two year old, four year old I said, lady, listen to me.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: You celebrate, you celebrate.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: You got to change before they hit seven man, because if you change now you don't mess up your kids, and you know I love my clients because they comfort me.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: They're like Winnie.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: It's better to find this out when your kids are 12 than when they're 22.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: And it's better to find out when they're 22.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: Before that they're 32.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: Right Basically it doesn't matter, as a parent, whether your kids are two, 12, 22 or 32, you know the moment that you realize it's a gift.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: It's a gift.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: You have an opportunity to change yourself And when you change yourself, you will notice a change in them because Even if they don't like you or they like you, whatever the relationship is, there's a softening.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: They are breathing in your vibration right.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: They are marinating right.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: It's like am I vibrating love, unconditional love?
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: Am I vibrating compassion and forgiveness, or am I vibrating fear?
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: I wonder what our listeners realized just now, about what they're vibrating.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: And that is the motivation, that is the empowerment when I realize, right, i have so much power to shift me, i have so much power to positively influence the world around me.
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: But then you know what our clients say next, right, but how?
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: And I love in your book how much, how you've built into it how to face our shadows, how to face our parenting shame, how to face our wounds and our pain, and to do it in a way that is so freeing.
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of people ask me when shadow work, you know originally came from Kaur Yong, and that's the realm of talk therapy What business do you have as an acupuncturist?
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: Why are you writing a book on shadow work?
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: And I said what you don't understand is 70% of illnesses come from anger, fear, guilt, shame, all of these things.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: So you know, for example, i had a client and she had limited eyesight.
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: She found me on Yelp and said can acupuncture help me with improving my eyesight?
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: And I said well, i don't know how much acupuncture alone can do, but if you're willing to trust me, then let's give it a try.
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: And I kid you not, in one session her eyesight fully restored.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: Wow, and it's because in the traditional Chinese medicine, anger is trapped in the liver and liver opens in the eyes.
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: So basically what I got to do with her is unpack what was the anger.
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: So it turned out that she had to give it a voice.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: So she had anger with her biological sister.
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: They got into a fight and her sister set boundaries with her and she's like who are you to set boundaries and decide to abandon me?
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: You know there's all kinds of anger.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: And so I said hey, listen, do you want to forgive your sister and then get your eyesight back, or do you want to stay angry at your sister and then have deteriorated eyesight?
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: And she said I want to forgive my sister.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, no.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: Good choice, Good choice, yes, yes.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: And so you know, and this is just one example And so basically what I realized is I need to write a book so that people who don't get to work with me individually, or you know if they don't take my group coaching program, you know, at just $28.
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: You systematically work, do the exercise the pages at in every chapter.
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: You can heal your life.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: You can heal so many things.
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: Okay, recover your hearing.
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: You know I work with a client.
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: you know he had pelvic floor dysfunction at 25 and he was actually, you know, had you know you're in leakage problem and you know, and it's like two session and it's done, and it really has to do with fear and it's so powerful This shadow work, i cannot tell you the number of like medical cases that get transformed because of the mind and the body are intrinsically linked.
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: You cannot separate them.
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: Exactly, and so I'm like everybody listening out there.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: you got to get a talk therapist or a coach like Don, and you got to go see an agri-punctress like Winnie.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know you need both, okay, yeah.
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: So containers to shift, containers to shift, yeah, and the beauty of folks like us who have been doing this work is we know where to poke right, like that's the thing.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: We know where to poke to release the thing.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: So I happen to be a professor of acupuncture and I happen to have four science degree, including two from MIT And so those little pieces of paper.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: So when I did this, I really want to provide a systematic framework to shadow work, Because one of the things I realized is sometimes I have clients who've had anxiety for 20 years and they've had a talk therapist for 20 years but they still haven't graduated.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: And that's the old way.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: That's the old way.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: The answer, i think, is partially because The talk therapist cannot take you where you are not ready to go, because our ego doesn't want that pain.
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: It's hard for us to open that part and go in there and look inside the closet where the monster is hiding.
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: And that's why I have a group healing program, because imagine if you have 10 people together, one person is sharing their breakthrough and then that can actually heal you because you start to relate to that person.
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: So it's like catching that vibe too, Like how you talked about transmitting a virus, transmitting anger.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: But we also transmit positivity, we transmit hope, we transmit whatever we're vibrating at, we transmit.
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: So first of all, it's powerful to not have to go in the scary room alone.
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: When we go as a group it just feels less scary.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: And then when we're in the scary room and somebody all of a sudden catches a vibration of hope or optimism or healing, that's contagious.
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: Exactly So.
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: I think that, if you've been I mean, i personally love individual therapy, because there's nothing quite like having somebody hold your hands.
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: But then if you've never tried group, i really hope everybody tried group healing, because one of the things is in 2018, i attended this kind of group program for the first time and the facilitator had us write down the top five things that we were ashamed about, and one of my things was abortion And I before that time, i never tell anybody, i didn't tell my parents.
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: I didn't tell my girlfriends.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: It was just a shame that I held inside, yeah, and like, even if I went to a talk therapist, i don't think I would just voluntarily like you know, do this, but because I am a good student and the teacher says the teacher says, write down you talk.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: I'm ashamed.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: I got to do it right.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: And what was interesting was, the teacher said okay, when you read this out loud to the group, everybody must raise their hand if they also have the same thing.
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: So the women shared that they cheated, they stole money, they did like heavy drugs, you know, abortion, all kinds of things that.
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: I know you, I get you, I am you, I am you.
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and what's interesting is, i was the first woman to share the abortion and there was actually 24 women and seven of the 24 actually raised their hand.
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: And I cannot tell you like in that moment I cried so hard because when I came forward with my shame and abortion, i also healed six other women in the room because I don't know if they were going to admit that they have abortion shame.
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: But six other women released themselves, released themselves.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: So so that's what I mean.
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: It's like that's why I have this group program And, yeah, i really believe in the power of group quantum healing.
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes.
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: And also because words don't teach in the way that experience teaches.
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: So we can learn about vulnerability and we can understand vulnerability and we can acknowledge certain things to ourselves, but then, until we go and do, vulnerability embody vulnerability, it doesn't have the same releasing effects.
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: And that you know, you shared so beautifully.
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: Why, yes, one on one coaching or therapy is.
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: It's essential on a certain level, but you can't skip the group and get the full benefit.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: You just can't.
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: So I love that And we are going to absolutely link to all of your delicious offerings in the show notes today, so our listeners will be able to check all of that out.
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really funny because when I first picked the title of the book honoring darkness some people might be like whoa, honoring darkness, that seems so scary.
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: But honoring darkness doesn't mean we dwell in the darkness.
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: It just means that we cannot transform if we hate where we are.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: You know, I think Martin Luther King says you know, hate cannot drive out darkness, Only love can.
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: Only love can do that Right.
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: So it's like whatever parenting mistake that I've done, this parenting shame and guilt that's so heavy.
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: I spent years hating myself for the parenting mistakes that I made.
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: And I'm like look at the data, Look at I messed up my daughters.
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: I'm a bad mom.
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: I don't know how many people listening to this can relate to.
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: I feel like a bad.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: All of us, we've all, all, all had stood in that moment.
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And what I realized is I cannot become the parent I want to be by hating who I've been.
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: I can only get there by loving accepting and finding compassion that every step along the way I did my absolute best, and that's what I mean by honoring darkness.
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: It doesn't mean what I did was right.
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: It doesn't mean I want to stay there, but what.
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: I mean, is I get to love, accept and find compassion so that I can become who I want to be, where you are in those moments?
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, and this is the nitty gritty.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: This is the whole thing right here.
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: What we're talking about, right, is finding love and acceptance for ourselves and our darkest moments, and I just know that that's what our listeners want so badly, and I know that they have so many questions about that, and so I can't wait to hear what they are.
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: I hope they reach out to you.
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: I hope, loves, that you definitely ask for what you need.
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: I know you've heard so many good things today about how to honor the darkness And, winnie, thank you so much for sharing your heart, sharing your journey, sharing your brilliance with us.
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: I am confident this will not be your last time on the pod, that this is the beginning of a beautiful relationship.
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: We should do some like Instagram live or something.
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: Have fun.
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: I love that idea.
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: Love that idea.
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: Okay, well, thank you again.
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: Peace Thank you everybody.
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: Dear Divorce Diary is a podcast by My Coach Dawn.
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: You can find more at MyCoachDawncom.