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How to SURVIVE Your Toxic Family During the Holidays | Thanksgiving Special · The Mark Driscoll Show

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Well, welcome to the Mark Driscoll show Thanksgiving
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special. I'm your Co host Landon Chase,
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joined by this week by Pastor Mark Driscoll and his wife, my
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mother-in-law Race Driscoll. This one's going to be fun.
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We're excited for the holidays. We've got something for you guys
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to be thankful for this week as we tackle some big problems that
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every family has and we'll hopefully set you up for a
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successful holiday season. We want to make memories this
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year, not trauma. So let's dive in and get ready.
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So everybody is in different life stages heading into the
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holidays and you guys have been in a lot of the life stages and
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you're heading entering the grandparent life stage and you
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guys are doing excellent at that.
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But let's, I would love to hear your guys's top tips for
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successful holidays. So if we could start with Young
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and childless, what would be your top tip for that couple or
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individual that's like 18 to 25? No children yet.
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I would say travel or do something extravagant as much as
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you're able to financially. A big memory that you can have
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for your whole marriage that you look back on and and remember to
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enjoy even in a memory. Take lots of pictures, plan a
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lot of fun because you don't have kids to navigate and so
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make it a big deal. Yeah, and if it let's say it's
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Thanksgiving even, even if you get Thanksgiving with a family,
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extended family, I think a trip is great.
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We really screwed up. So maybe we'll tell you also how
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to screw up your holidays. We we have done this.
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So tell them how we screwed up Thanksgiving when we first got
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married. We didn't take a trip and go
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make fun memories. What did we do?
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We took a trip to all of the families houses for
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Thanksgiving. She.
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Was used to having Thanksgiving with her family.
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I'm used to having Thanksgiving with my family and so we did 2
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Thanksgivings. Perfect.
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So we were fat and happy. Well, we were fat and unhappy.
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And so this is the problem. When you get married, you got to
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figure like, OK, now we're a new family.
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What's our new traditions? And sometimes if you take a
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break from getting Thanksgiving with your extended family, you
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get a chance to make your own memories and reset.
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So I would say, yeah, take a fun trip, get some time off.
2:35
Yeah, Ashley. Dude, don't eat 2 Turkey
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dinners. No, for sure if you're yeah, if
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you're eating two, you're doing something wrong.
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Yeah, Ashley and I did that. We took our A trip our first
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year and I know that was hard for you guys because it.
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Was devastating, the therapist said.
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It was trauma adjacent, is what the therapist just told.
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Little T Trauma it was fun. We we have some of our favorite
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memories. We went to North Carolina and
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just did Thanksgiving in a fun hotel that they hotels do giant
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Thanksgivings. So it's very, very fun.
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All right, new families. What advice would you guys have
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for a new family, one to two very young children?
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I would still do something fun, but start to figure out how you
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as your own family, want to create memories with the kids
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when they're really little like that.
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They can't, you know, go do all the rides and stuff at local
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carnivals or festivities, but you can still drive around and
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see lights and go do just little holiday excursions.
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And I think for us, yeah, we went and just did little things
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with them when they were young and they don't remember it, but
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it's fun to take pictures and have those memories anyway with
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them and start to build up what the holidays can look like,
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start to figure out, OK, now they're little, but as they get
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more interested in more things that are holiday related, what
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are the things that are even offered in our area that we'll
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be able to do that are local? Yeah, I'd say when they're like
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1:00 to 2:00. So you can either rotate
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Thanksgiving if you're on good terms with both sides of the
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extended family. So we started doing that screwed
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up Thanksgiving. Family celebrated on Christmas
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Eve as far as Christmas and then.
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So yeah, so I was going to say sweetie, bye.
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So like we do Thanksgiving with one side one year and then
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Thanksgiving with the other side, the other to rotate and,
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and then Christmas, we do Christmas Eve with one side of
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the extended family, Christmas Day with the other side of the
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extended family. And we would do Christmas Day in
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the evening so we could be together in the morning and make
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our own traditions. It was always hard though,
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because I've worked Christmas Eve every day for 30 years.
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I've worked Easter and Mother's Day and Father's Day every year
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for 30 years. And so, yeah.
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So for us, rotating Thanksgiving and rotating Christmas Eve and
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Christmas Day helped. And then later in life, we were
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able to host. And so we would host
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Thanksgiving at our house and say everybody's welcome.
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And, and that was a way if they all wanted to get together, that
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was fine. That only works at both sides of
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the family, extended family rather get along well enough to
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do that. But I would say when you have
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young children, this is where you're starting to really
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differentiate. Set your own family, set your
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own traditions. And so when the kids are little,
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if you got to have the hard conversations about, hey, we
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need you guys to flex because this is what we're going to need
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for Thanksgiving or Christmas. Have those conversations right
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away. Because if you think that if you
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have a controlling mom or dad, as soon as you add children and
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holidays, they become extra controlling.
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And if they have some unspoken expectations, they need to
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articulate those and ask. They can't just say, well, we
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expected that XY and Z would happen with our grandkids for
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the rest of our lives. So we got to talk about this.
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We need to, we need to settle on this.
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And so it's having those conversations in advance.
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If you're starting to get a lot of pressure heading into the
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holidays from older extended family members, you know you've
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got some control issues you need to work through.
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And now's the time. Now's the time create the
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boundary. Set the precedent when the kids
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are level. Yeah, yeah, really good, really
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good. And Speaking of kids growing up,
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so best advice for full families, Two to five kids,
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middle school, high school, college age kids like.
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Yeah, I mean, those are some of your final memories with some of
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those kids, especially if they're high school and college
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age, it goes by quickly. And so while you may still be in
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contact with them when they go to college and become young
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adults, those are some of your final family memories all
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together as a family. And so we, we did travel a bit,
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but we just wanted to make home a really fun place and they
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could invite friends over to celebrate different, you know,
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times of the holiday season. We would host little parties.
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Like with my daughters, I took them to Christmas tea every year
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and that became our tradition. And so we would go out and find
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a great place to be able to do that.
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You would take the girls on daddy dates.
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I'd take the girls on daddy dates and I'd take the boys up
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sledding in the mountains because they always want to go
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sledding in the snow. And I'm the fun down.
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I like planning fun. So for me, like I would record
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all of the classic holiday shows, not the, you know, woke
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weird ones, but the classic stuff.
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And then Saturday night was family movie night.
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And so we'd watch kind of classic fun Christmas shows.
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We would, when the kids were little, they'd get hot
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chocolate, get in their jammies. We'd drive around and look at
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Christmas lights. There were certain places like
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camps and such that were set up for kids to come and have fun
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for Christmas. So we'd go to those and so we
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built traditions. We would do the same thing every
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year. We also would take like giving
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tree names off of whatever you know.
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Well, you you like to adopt single mothers every.
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Yeah, but we also did like the school had a program where you
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could get gifts for kids in need.
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And so we would always get one name for each of the kids and
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have them go out and Christmas shop so that you're teaching
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them generosity. If you haven't already done that
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by this phase of their life. It's a good thing to implement
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so that it's not just getting during the holidays, but it's
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giving and learning how to be generous, and so that was really
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an important part of all our holiday traditions as well.
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Well, and you always, sweetie, if I picked you and the kids
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would pick some single moms that were friends of theirs in
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school. And then the kids, you'd take
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the kids and go buy Christmas presents for those families and
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then deliver them to their friends just to be thinking and
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serving. And then the house was always
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decorated. And then when the kids were
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little, you know, sometimes kids want to do like, really kitschy,
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you know, homemade ornaments. We did.
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Each of the kids got their own Christmas tree in their room
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next to their bed. They can decorate it however
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they wanted. Then it was kind of their night,
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like, so the boys be baseball or whatever.
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And so just trying to find creative ways to make it fun.
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So during these years, you're trying new things, you're making
9:25
memories, things that work, you're doing them every year.
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Yeah, at this stage too, I was doing a lot of baking with the
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girls, and the boys sometimes got involved, and then we'd take
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jam, homemade jam and cookies to the neighbors.
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Just another way to serve people around you locally and
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evangelize. Yeah, and for me, I don't know,
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you were very purposeful. I just like having fun and
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screwing around, if I'm honest with you.
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And so like, if and I would be looking like if there was like a
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concert or if there was a tree lighting.
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Yeah. The girls want to go to The
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Nutcracker Ballet. The boys, if there was something
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they want to go do, I would just try to bring lots of options to
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the kids and like, what do you guys want to do?
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And just let them choose and then put it on the calendar and
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make it happen. But we were pretty busy during
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the holiday season. I just like heading out or being
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home and making memories. And when they're this age, it's
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really fun because when your kids are little, they're in your
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orbit. And as they get bigger, they got
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friends and they got a car, they got their own world.
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And so you don't get as much time together.
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When they're little, they're in your world.
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When they get bigger, you got to intentionally get into their
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world. So as long as they're little, I
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want to. I want to be about it.
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Love it, love it. So the last category would be
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empty nesters. You have all adult children.
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I would frame this one around like most adult children that I
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know. They would be my age.
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There is so much pressure, there's so much control, there's
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so much anxiety around the holidays.
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So how do you be in laws? How do you be grandparents?
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How do you be in your guys's face and not?
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How do you bless your children and not push them towards
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something like cut off or like just feeling so much anxiety
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heading into the holidays? Wrote a book on a little book on
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it. Fix your family system.
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Brand new book and it comes with a workbook.
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So if you're looking for a present to give your toxic in
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laws, you could give them this compendium set and we get into
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all of this. But yeah, if you're older.
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So the older you get, the more flexible you should become.
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It's. Good.
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And as you get older, you need to take all the good things that
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the Bible says about generosity and serving.
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And so, you know, the big idea in the in the book and in the
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the teaching is, you know, like when you got married, you didn't
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join our family, Ashley didn't join your family.
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You and Ashley started a new family.
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You're the head of the family. You and your wife are one.
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You guys decide what's best for your family.
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And so that means that, you know, for us, with you and we've
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got three, you know, married kids, that's three additional
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families. We need to go and ask, hey, for
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Thanksgiving, for Christmas, what would work for your family?
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How do we serve your family? How do we give to your family?
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And so it needs to be a conversation among the families.
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And it can't be an imposition from one family on the other
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families. So like this year, we're doing
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Thanksgiving on Monday because you guys were all saying like,
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hey, we, we got the week off. We'd like to travel.
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We'd like to do our own family traditions, maybe even doing our
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own Thanksgiving. Let's all get together on Monday
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and then we have the week off. It's like, OK, we can do
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Thanksgiving on Monday. Praise God.
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We're just glad to get together. Thank, you know, Christmas, we,
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you know, ministry. We're all pretty much working on
12:55
Christmas Eve. We'll get together on Christmas
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Day, and then everybody can go do whatever they want to or need
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to do. You know, if we go somewhere
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like we're going to go up to the mountains, it's always
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everybody's welcome. Nobody's obligated.
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And there's no guilt or expectation if you don't want to
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come. And so if you're older, it's how
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do you serve and how do you give?
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And if the older generation will walk in and say we'd like to
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have a conversation about how we can serve you and what we can
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give to help your family, the anxiety goes way down as opposed
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to we're here with our list of demands.
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The grandkids are now in the hostage negotiation.
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And if we don't get what we want, grandma's going to be
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crying for the holidays. Don't make grandma cry.
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And that's that's what creates the anxiety is usually there's a
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lot of expectations and then mom gets emotional and start saying
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things like I birth you, I've sacrificed everything for you.
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I've given you my whole life. All I'm asking for is.
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An hour. Just an hour of can.
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You just do this for me. Yeah, there can't be strings
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attached. And I think as a parent, there's
14:06
phases of parenting where you're slowly releasing your kids into
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each season of life until they get into adulthood and have
14:13
their own families. And I think that there's a
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little bit of grieving with each season, but it's a good thing,
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especially if you see them walking with the Lord, then it's
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easier to release them. But for me, I just, I have to
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realize I have no, I can't have any entitlement attitude about
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the time that I should or shouldn't get with my kids.
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I can't take it personally if they don't want to come to
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something. I need to literally just be
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offering. This is what we're doing.
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And you guys are welcome to come.
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If you can't, great. We'll see you, you know, in a
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couple weeks or whatever when you get back from your trip.
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And so it really is holding it with an open hand and not having
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strings be attached to anything emotionally or financially.
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Just offer what you want to do and if they can come, great, if
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not. That's OK, And there's a big
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difference between secrecy and privacy.
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So if your kids get married and start their own family, they may
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have reasons why they want to do things differently that honestly
15:09
are none of your business, you know, and that's privacy.
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I mean, they may have issues in their marriage that they're
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working on and they need that time to work on some issues in
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their marriage, maybe emotionally, fertility,
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sexually, whatever you like. There's it may not as a parent,
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you can take it very personal and make it very personally.
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You're rejecting me. And it's like, but they may,
15:30
they may have needs for their own marriage and family that you
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don't need to know about. Just need to say, you know, what
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if you, if that's your news to tell, if you want us to know,
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you can tell us. Otherwise, we're just going to
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assume you're doing what's best for your family.
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And we don't need to approve of your decision.
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We need to support your decision because we don't get a vote on
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what your family does. And so, you know, we are blessed
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in that we get, we get a lot of time with our kids.
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We, we really get a lot of time with our grandkids.
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But what I would say to older generations is if you do this,
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you're going. To driving him away you're.
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Going to drive him away. If you do this, you're going to
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invite him in. That's right.
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And I would say like for us, the only reason you guys, not the
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only reason, but a big reason you end up with so much time
16:18
with indie is because you're like, how can I help?
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How can I hang out with him? You guys need a date night like
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you're blessing us. So it's very easy.
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It's not like, hey, I need to see my grandkid, right?
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And it's like, well, that's that.
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Well, it's not your thing, it's ours, right?
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And so it's just changing how you say it.
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Hey, how can I bless? And it might be not at a
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convenient time for you, but you're willing to do it and it's
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super helpful. And that's where some older
16:44
generations, especially boomers, like they're like, hey, we're
16:47
traveling a lot and we have a very full social life.
16:50
And, you know, our kids and our grandkids are not a first
16:53
priority. So when we're in town, because,
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you know, we're on our seventh trip, we've got a window on
16:59
Tuesday for an hour. So we're going to need you to
17:01
meet that. It's like, no, no, that's not
17:04
serving and that's not prioritizing.
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And so it is like, Hey, we'd like to get you and your family
17:12
on the calendar 1st. Oh, you guys need a date night,
17:15
You need an overnight. All right, let us get that on
17:17
the calendar as best we can. And then let us work some of our
17:21
other responsibilities around that.
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Because if, if, let me, I'll just be honest.
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Like if you're not willing to make a grandchild a priority and
17:30
work some things around it, you're pretty awful.
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Grandparent for sure. Well, I, I think you guys are
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fairly unique in that as it's not really about you like you're
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trying to serve and bless most other situations I've heard of
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and involved in. It's always like we're here to
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serve the older generation, not vice versa.
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So you guys do a really good job of modeling that and you guys
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just wrote a great resource on it.
17:54
So thank you for doing that. And if you guys text family to
17:57
99383, that's family to 99383. This is a fix your family.
18:03
It's called fix your family system breaking toxic patterns
18:06
in your family because we all have them all throughout the
18:09
Bible. Every family has toxic patterns.
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Even if you're from a great family, there's still some
18:15
things we need to work through and breakthrough so that future
18:19
generations can be healthier. So this book and the workbook
18:22
are great resources as you head into the holidays and great
18:25
conversation points. If you and your spouse don't
18:28
necessarily agree, you can walk through a book like this and
18:31
talk through a book like this and point to the Bible and find
18:34
unity in the gospel. That's right.
18:36
So thank you for doing that. Speaking of people trying to get
18:39
help, in this holiday season, a lot of people are just going
18:42
online, figuring out what hits them in their algorithm, finding
18:45
YouTube videos, getting fed YouTube videos.
18:48
Some of this advice is not great, some of it is.
18:51
So we're going to play a specific therapist, her advice,
18:54
and then get your guys's take on it and maybe how you'd see it
18:57
differently or if you'd agree and what how you'd encourage
19:00
people to set boundaries and such.
19:02
Assertive Boundary Setting Assertive boundary setting is
19:05
like very much a useful skill to walk into the room with.
19:09
When we talk about spending time with people who push your
19:11
button, who can make you feel unsafe, who are maybe just not
19:14
respectful of you and your feelings and the choices that
19:18
you've made in your life or you know what have you.
19:21
Boundary setting can look lots of different ways.
19:23
And I do want to encourage folks to approach boundary setting
19:26
from their level of comfort. So for me, I'm just a very
19:31
direct person. I, I prefer to just like really
19:36
come out of the gate swinging with my thoughts and feelings
19:40
and just being very clear with what it is that I'm looking for.
19:43
My family by now is used to this.
19:45
And so if somebody says something that pushes my buttons
19:47
or rubs me the wrong way, I'm just going to be like, wow, that
19:50
made me feel unsafe and like lead with that kind of energy.
19:54
But not everybody feels that way.
19:55
Not everybody is in a place where you feel confident or
19:58
secure enough to say that. And so I want to be clear, that
20:02
boundary setting can look different.
20:03
Sometimes just a well timed like look can be boundary setting,
20:08
especially when we talk about food around the holidays,
20:10
there's lots of weird diet culture attitude that's floating
20:13
around. And so if somebody says
20:15
something to you about like, wow, that's your second helping
20:17
of that. Just giving them the weird
20:20
disgusted look is still boundary setting in and of itself.
20:23
Because for folks who are not autistic and folks who are, you
20:28
know, comfortable and attuned to reading body language, that
20:31
sends a pretty clear message that, like, I don't want to talk
20:33
about that with you. I didn't like that or that made
20:35
me feel uncomfortable. So good, bad or ugly I.
20:39
Don't know if she's a Christian, but two practical things.
20:44
If there's a tension point in the relationship, talk about it
20:48
before the holidays, Talk about it after the holidays.
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Whoever you've got the tension point with, just come to a
20:53
mutual agreement. When we're together with the,
20:56
you know, for the extended family for the holiday, let's
20:58
not bring that up and talk about it.
21:00
And it's not that we're not going to deal with it.
21:02
That's not the time. Because it's kind of like
21:04
passive aggressive boundary setting.
21:06
It is. It's not over.
21:07
Well, in it, so it's like somebody brings up an issue that
21:10
is attention. So then that creates anxiety.
21:13
So then you get a little passive aggressive and then you increase
21:16
the anxiety. It'd be better if you just both
21:18
agreed. We'll deal with that at another
21:20
time when everybody's not present.
21:22
Yeah, and you can opt out. Yeah, if if it's really bad you
21:25
can just dismiss yourself and circle back.
21:28
And that's a boundary. Yeah, Yeah.
21:30
I mean, I would rather be direct too.
21:32
But direct beforehand is, is ideal if you're in a situation
21:36
where someone is speaking out of turn, which often happens in
21:39
family dynamics. I think you can kindly,
21:42
especially if you're a Christian, say hey, I'd love to
21:45
pick up that conversation another time or you know, I'd
21:49
rather not talk about that right now.
21:51
But you don't have to be passive aggressive.
21:52
I would just say be kindly and gracious.
21:55
Sometimes we just have to eat it and then talk about it another
21:58
time and not worry about the situation at hand but just not
22:03
comment so. You know, boundaries are
22:07
boundaries are like this is your life, this is my life, that's
22:10
your budget, this is my budget, that's your family, this is my
22:12
family. So I do believe in boundaries.
22:15
I also believe that the younger generation is addicted to them.
22:19
Yes, well, and they're addicted to what sounds feels like trauma
22:22
to them and so they overreact emotionally to something and
22:26
then you end up with a family holiday where everybody's going
22:30
at each other and everybody wants to leave.
22:32
So I think this could blow up well and.
22:34
Then it goes to. So oftentimes if everybody's
22:36
setting boundaries, it's it's, it's about selfishness and
22:39
control. Yes.
22:40
Well, this is my boundary. Well, this is my boundary.
22:43
If you have this boundary, then I have this boundary and you OK.
22:46
So to put a better paradigm over it, go to what the Bible says
22:50
about serving. And the Bible only has good
22:54
things to say about serving and servants and says even Jesus
22:58
didn't come to be served, but to serve.
23:00
So if you have a if you have a Christian family, if if the
23:04
attitude is OK, how do we serve each other this holiday season?
23:09
It's a different conversation than boundaries and it actually
23:13
leads to a healthier family system.
23:16
So like, you know, so like we talked about like three of our
23:21
adult children are married. It's like, OK, how do we serve
23:24
your family this holiday season? How do we serve your family and
23:27
how do we serve your family? That is a lot less adversarial
23:31
than these are our boundaries. What are your boundaries?
23:34
That feels like a negotiation and control.
23:37
And if, if the older generation will come in and say, how do we
23:40
serve your family? It encourages the reciprocal
23:44
question of, well, thank you. Yeah.
23:46
How do we serve you guys? And if and if all the different
23:49
families are coming or all the different individuals are coming
23:52
into the holiday, ideally saying, well, how do we serve
23:55
each other? It's probably going to go really
23:57
well or at least has a higher propensity of ending well
24:02
because I've never seen a family where people were all servants
24:05
and it ended up being a knife fight.
24:06
Totally, you know. Well, and there's definitely a
24:10
weaponization I think as a great set of boundaries and there's
24:14
like so many and like for Ashley and I, there's non negotiables
24:17
and those should be like a couple things.
24:19
Each family needs to have. Those Yeah, there should be a
24:21
couple things like OK and people should know that beforehand and
24:24
it shouldn't be a super heated thing.
24:26
It's like, hey, if we go here, you know that's crossing the
24:30
line and right, we're not going to be here anymore.
24:33
Like I had a sibling that ended up making fun of another sibling
24:41
about their food allergy and then like tormenting them
24:43
ongoing. And then she just opted out.
24:46
She just wouldn't do Thanksgiving anymore or holidays
24:48
at all because it wasn't safe for her.
24:50
And like that was like, OK, if you're going to get tormented
24:52
and like that far, it's like, yeah, yeah, it's okay to just
24:56
opt out. Like the boundaries to me, it's
24:57
like, okay, if the family can't respect that, you're just not
25:00
probably going. It's just a lot less anxious
25:02
just not to go. You don't keep punishing people
25:04
and like back and forth. It's like, okay, it's just
25:06
probably not a good fit for us. Yeah, maybe we'll try again
25:08
later, but it's not like, oh, this boundary and then this
25:11
boundary and this one and this one.
25:12
It's got to be like just a couple things that and just
25:15
ground rules. You talked about ground rules at
25:17
your house and if people are cruel or passive aggressive or
25:21
things like that, it's just not going to work.
25:23
And you got to own that for your own family and then opt out if
25:26
it doesn't fit. As you guys, for all the
25:29
families trying to figure all this stuff out heading into the
25:31
holidays, they're anxious what would be things that they should
25:35
just kind of swallow and show up at Thanksgiving for and like,
25:39
all right, come on, it's OK. It's it's Thanksgiving and what
25:42
are things that they should draw boundaries or like maybe not go
25:45
to Thanksgiving over? Well, I would say one thing I'll
25:47
get into that, but one is sometimes by changing the
25:50
setting, you change the culture. So different people's homes have
25:54
different cultures and rules. And spirits.
25:57
And spirits, yeah. And so it's like if, if, if this
26:00
is the least healthy, you know, you know, couple in the family
26:05
and they host Thanksgiving, maybe move it to somebody else's
26:09
house and see if that doesn't change things.
26:12
And you're like, well, they have the biggest house.
26:14
Yeah. But if it's not the like calmest
26:16
house, it's not the best house. And so sometimes even in an
26:19
extended family, it's like, well, can we rotate Thanksgiving
26:22
over a course of a few years and just, you know, see, can we host
26:27
Thanksgiving if you're like, if you're like, we hate going to
26:30
their house because the way they do family and life is very
26:34
anxious and not very healthy. And we're going into their
26:36
environment. Well then can we host it and
26:38
maybe we set the environment. So those are creative hacks.
26:43
But yeah, the couple of things are like if you have a family
26:46
where like one person over drinks, it's like we don't want
26:50
our kids to be around somebody who's drunk.
26:52
Like that's a that's, you know, and that.
26:54
This is they want to play anywhere they.
26:55
Want to play anywhere like This is why we don't take our kids to
26:57
the casino things too. Like if you have a relative who
27:04
does just a lot of course, or sexual or crass joking, you're
27:07
like, no, that, that is really off putting.
27:10
We don't, we don't like that. We don't want to be around that
27:12
for the holidays. Sometimes families get together
27:16
and they turn it into a roast. Verbal attack.
27:19
One person of one person. It's like, who's the person
27:22
that's going to be the roast this year?
27:24
It's like, no, we don't want to do that.
27:25
We don't want to talk about this year's Tony's turn and we're
27:29
going to talk about everything in his life that was horrible
27:32
and we're going to roast him. It's like, no, we don't.
27:34
I want to do that. That's not.
27:36
Thanksgiving is for being thankful, not for roasting.
27:39
The Turkey gets roasted, but that's it.
27:41
And anything that I mean, there's like, I don't feel safe.
27:43
There's people that are way too sensitive, but there are actual
27:46
safety issues, you know, like are the is the house a safe
27:50
environment for children? Yeah.
27:52
Is it all divided up so you can't see your kids when they're
27:55
playing? I mean, that could be a deal
27:57
breaker because you need to be able to navigate physical safety
28:00
for your kids with people close by. 1-2, like even if you have
28:04
little kids, is the environment considerate of them?
28:07
Because it's like, well, if there's no toys, if there's no
28:10
place to play, if there's no outdoor place and you've got
28:13
boys, eventually you're like, I can't just tell them to sit
28:16
there for four hours. Like, if you're going to bring
28:19
kids over, you need to have an environment that is fit for
28:23
kids, you know, And some families, it's like, well, we
28:26
always go to Grandma Grandpa's house.
28:28
Well, Grandma Grandpa's house is like a museum with a bunch of,
28:31
you know, China and breakables. And we spend all of Thanksgiving
28:35
just telling the kids not to touch anything.
28:37
Yeah. Well, that's that's the kids
28:38
memory. No, no, no, no.
28:41
Yeah, yeah. And you can create in that
28:44
something that counselors would call a negative anniversary.
28:46
So there's positive anniversaries.
28:48
You're like, that's the day I got my bike.
28:49
That's the day I got my salvation.
28:51
That's the day I met my spouse. A negative anniversary is where
28:54
it was so painful that you literally remember that negative
28:58
anniversary. And as a parent, you're like, I
29:00
surely don't want the holidays to be a negative anniversary.
29:03
I don't want it to be something that they're loathing instead of
29:07
looking forward to. And there's certain things you
29:10
can tolerate when you're an adult and married without kids.
29:14
But once your kids come along, you're like, I, I don't want
29:17
them to be present in that. Like if you got a family that
29:21
gets really loud and just kind of kind of yells and screams at
29:25
each other a lot, you're like my kids.
29:28
Like maybe I can handle that as an adult man, but my 2 year old
29:31
son screaming and yelling is not good for him.
29:35
Try and see it through their eyes.
29:36
Yeah, Yeah. What would be the things that
29:39
you would tell like a couple in their late 20s, early 30s that
29:42
they should kind of get over and like, all right, it's
29:44
Thanksgiving. Like, don't you don't need to
29:46
enforce all these boundaries. Like just enjoy family.
29:50
That's not that's not in the close hand.
29:54
Some of it can be dietary. Yeah, food things.
29:59
Food things you're like just, you know, maybe you can't eat
30:01
everything that is at the meal. Maybe as well just agreeing that
30:09
there's certain things that we're just not going to talk
30:12
about when we're all together. Like politics you like, we do
30:16
have an aunt who's a Democrat and you don't talk about, you
30:21
know, being a Democrat. We won't talk about being a
30:23
Republican like today. We're going to set our politics
30:26
aside. If you are Christian, you got
30:29
somebody in your family that is just very anti Christian.
30:32
It's like, I'll tell you what, I don't try to convert you today.
30:35
You don't try and deconvert me today.
30:37
We'll just set that aside for today.
30:41
And, and sometimes too, it's if you have any bitterness, it
30:44
really comes up around the holidays.
30:47
You're like, well, they didn't apologize, they didn't say
30:49
they're sorry. They've never owned that.
30:50
It's like, well, you probably have some bitterness there and
30:54
you need to forgive and maybe someday they repent.
30:58
But if the holidays are triggering bitterness, it really
31:01
is on you to deal with your bitterness, not them to, to deal
31:04
with their repentance. That's between them and God.
31:06
Yeah, Yeah, I think that's really good.
31:09
Yeah. Thank you, guys.
31:11
The next clip, same gal and this is exit strategy.
31:15
Have connected strategy one of the things that can be really
31:19
useful is to talk about and to situate this beforehand.
31:23
And so if you have a person, a trusted and safe person that
31:26
you're going to be going through the holidays with, like for me,
31:29
it's my husband and be like eye contact.
31:31
You can be like the the eyes. It can be like a hand signal.
31:34
It can be a particular phrase, like a safe word.
31:37
It can be a noise. Whatever it is, as long as it is
31:40
clear and you guys have communicated about it
31:42
beforehand, your signal can be whatever you want it to be.
31:44
But basically the purpose of this is just to let your exit
31:47
buddy know that you've had it and that you're ready to go for
31:51
the night or that you need a minute.
31:53
And so maybe that's their cue to say like, Hey, let's take a
31:56
walk. Hey, let's take a smoke break.
31:58
Hey, I forgot something in the car.
31:59
Can you help me look for it? I don't know, do you want to run
32:02
to the gas station to get more beer?
32:04
Like, I don't know whatever The thing is, but like negotiate
32:07
these things and talk about these things and have that
32:09
understanding before it's go time.
32:13
I don't think it's a bad idea. I mean, I think you're an
32:16
introvert and I'm not and I didn't always get your cues that
32:22
you were spent and ready to go home.
32:25
And so I think it would have been helpful had we talked about
32:27
that before and said, hey, you know, let's so that you didn't
32:30
feel bad saying something blunt in front of everybody.
32:33
And I would get the cue that, hey, it's time to stop chatting
32:36
with everybody. So I think, I mean, I don't
32:38
think it's a bad idea if you don't use it, you don't, you
32:41
don't need it, that's OK. But to have that discussion I
32:44
think is considering one another, especially as a couple,
32:47
you're considering one another. And if if say something happened
32:50
with a family member of mine and I just couldn't, couldn't deal
32:55
with it in the moment, at least I would have an out and you
32:58
would help me and I would feel cared for.
33:00
So I think it's I think it's a good idea.
33:03
Yeah, I mean, yeah, I'm an introvert.
33:05
So there were certain times like, I'm just going to go
33:07
outside for 5 minutes, get some fresh air because, you know,
33:10
there's a lot of people annoys in the house and like, I just
33:12
need a little bit of a break. But what happens during the
33:14
holidays too? Sometimes strange things happen
33:18
during the holidays that you just didn't have anticipate.
33:20
I'll never forget, won't say who, but like, we were hosting
33:24
dinner at our house one year and somebody, extended family
33:28
members showed up with some homeless people they met at the
33:31
grocery store who were begging for money.
33:34
And they put them in the car and brought them to our house for
33:36
Thanksgiving. And I was like, wait a minute,
33:39
Like, you can't pick up strangers and bring them to my
33:42
house with my kids for Thanksgiving.
33:44
It's like, well, we're Christians.
33:46
I was like, yeah, but we also have boundaries and children,
33:50
you know, and so. And they didn't.
33:51
And this is where sometimes when multiple people in a family or
33:54
multiple families within an extended family come together,
33:57
they've got different boundaries.
33:58
And so for some people, they're on their phone the whole time
34:01
and they're Facetiming and you're like, you know, or
34:05
they're bringing strangers or, you know, they're wanting to
34:08
take photos and videos of your children and post it on the
34:11
Internet. So sometimes it's not even the
34:13
exit strategy, it's the conversation in the middle of
34:16
like, what do we do about that? You know, because some families
34:19
are like, we don't want our kids being posted on the Internet and
34:21
the grandparents are posting all the videos of the kids.
34:23
And you're like, And so in addition to exit strategy,
34:27
you've got to have a plan, I think, for how to clarify things
34:31
as people maybe are sort of out of bounds a little bit.
34:34
There just needs to be a little course correction.
34:37
Yeah, totally. I once, I don't know if this is
34:39
popping in my mind. My, I had an uncle and an aunt
34:41
initiate a divorce in the middle of Thanksgiving.
34:44
It was like, but it was like a a explosion kind of thing.
34:47
Like, oh, just kind of melted. It melted and it was throwing
34:50
things and yelling and all of us were like, what is?
34:52
Oh, that's right. It was like out of a bad movie.
34:55
It was, it was. Yeah.
34:57
It was like his fourth wife. And it's not like that.
34:59
Oh, that's right. Just kept he just did that.
35:02
So, but that was that was a good time.
35:05
Yeah, as much of those discussions that you can have
35:07
preemptively is helpful. But there are things, even when
35:11
I was dealing with some of the pre trauma in my life that
35:14
wasn't affiliated with my family, I didn't realize going
35:18
to a family function would actually remind me of some
35:20
things and it would kind of make me freeze.
35:22
And so he was helpful in watching my expressions knowing
35:27
that OK, maybe this year we need to keep it a shorter time frame
35:32
and that's OK. It's just part of maturing as an
35:35
adult and healing from things. And what?
35:37
Yes, so in the in the fantastic book that I wrote, one of the
35:42
things I talk about is how the holidays can be difficult
35:44
because of something called reverting roles.
35:47
And that is when you grow up in a family system, like
35:49
everybody's got a role. Like you're the responsible one,
35:52
you're the funny one, you're the organized one, you're the
35:54
foolish one, you're the rescuer and the caregiver.
35:57
And, and so then you grow up and you leave your father and mother
36:00
and you differentiate and you become an adult or you get
36:02
married. But then when you get back
36:04
together, you kind of go back to your old role.
36:08
And if you're married, it's really frustrating because it's
36:12
like, I'm married to one person, but then for Thanksgiving and
36:15
Christmas, I've got somebody else.
36:18
And you're you until you get around your sisters, you get
36:20
around your mom and not speaking to.
36:23
Me. I was going to say, you're not
36:24
directly saying that to me. Are.
36:28
You. Yeah.
36:28
And so it's even having those conversations going in, like,
36:32
you know, I love your family. I want to enjoy the holidays.
36:34
But everybody, we can't just revert back into armor.
36:38
I think every family does it. Ashley feels that with Yeah, the
36:41
family died. Yep.
36:42
It's just like very, very familiar and it's.
36:45
Just it's what you've done most of your life and so you just hop
36:47
back into it really easily. But that's what causes some
36:51
anxiety. Yes, for sure.
36:52
So it's like talking about that even as a couple before you go
36:55
in is like, you know, you don't have to be the one who's going
36:58
to fix everybody's problems this year.
37:00
You don't need to be the one that is funny and entertaining
37:02
everyone and making sure everybody's having a good time.
37:05
You're not the host. Yeah.
37:06
I think we're moving that burden of I need to fix it.
37:09
It's like, this is how this is what my family's going to do.
37:12
And like, yeah, I'm uncomfortable with that.
37:14
Like we're we're just opting out.
37:15
Like don't, don't make it like, hey, you guys need to change
37:17
everything or we're like, or we're not coming.
37:20
Hey, it's just probably not a good fit for us.
37:21
Don't make it like, and you don't need to make it this super
37:23
loaded thing. And oh, if you guys did this and
37:25
this and this, it's like, OK, you have, you'll have that
37:28
opportunity later in your life. You don't need to change
37:31
everything. You just need to decide if it's
37:32
healthy for your family. Yeah, absolutely.
37:35
And. Your kids So Well, let's close
37:38
out with a mailbag question from somebody whose parents live in
37:44
Florida. My parents want to see us for
37:46
Christmas, but they want us to travel to them, which means
37:49
getting two kids on a plane for three hours.
37:52
We ask them to come to us, but they live in Florida and they
37:54
don't want to travel north, and they're trying to guilt us into
37:57
coming. What would you say?
38:01
Number one, are they willing to pay for the trip?
38:05
If you're saying the parents, if you're saying, hey, why don't
38:08
you guys come see us? It's one thing if you're making
38:11
them pay for it. It's another if you're like, and
38:13
we'll pay for the tickets, we'll rent your car and we'll pay for
38:16
your hotel and you don't have to stay at our house and you know,
38:19
you can have time as your family.
38:21
But if it's if the expectation is you're going to travel to us,
38:25
you're going to pay for it and you're going to stay at our
38:27
house, that's a that's a lot to ask.
38:31
Yeah, so many people stay with their in laws and like I, I, I
38:35
get it. I think it's awesome.
38:36
But there's a, if there's any hint of like a struggle in the
38:39
relationship, it's so much better to just have your own
38:42
place. Like you know what spend that
38:44
money in? Rent a house.
38:45
In my opinion, what's even better is like leave the kids
38:49
and then go for an overnight as a couple and like you guys go
38:54
have a couples overnight and we'll take the grandkids.
38:56
You got Andy for Christmas, you guys can bring them to
38:59
California. I mean, that's the end of the
39:01
world. But yeah, I mean well.
39:05
And in that too, you know, unless there's health reasons
39:09
like if they're really sickly. Yeah, that's what I was going to
39:11
say. Yeah, if the older, if the
39:13
grandparents are sickly or have some legitimate reason, then OK.
39:17
But if they're just like, yeah, it's hard for us to get on a
39:20
flight. Whereas 2 kids, I mean, that's a
39:25
lot depending on their ages to be able to travel like that in
39:28
three hour flight. You know how kids can be on a
39:30
flight. So I don't know, it sounds
39:33
selfish initially to me of the grandparents, but it just kind
39:37
of depends on their situation. But if they are, if they're not
39:42
willing and if they're just plain selfish grandparents, I
39:45
don't know that I'd want to spend the holidays with my kids
39:48
with them anyway. So it might be just the Lord
39:51
preserving their holidays for them.
39:55
And and that is setting a boundary that's saying, you
39:58
know, if you want to see the grandkids, we are happy to have
40:01
you here, but we're not able to travel and so.
40:06
I don't think that's a bad thing for them to say I.
40:08
Mean, you know, traveling with kids during the holidays #1 the.
40:12
Airports. Are airports are rough and
40:15
flying right now in America is a lot of cancellations and
40:19
trouble. I mean, so you're and in
40:22
addition to weather around Christmas like you could have
40:24
delayed flights, cancelled flights, kids like it could be a
40:28
thing. In addition, you know, usually
40:31
the family, you know, mom and or dad is working, that's not a lot
40:35
of time off. So the time you get off, you
40:37
want to rest and make memories with your family, not be
40:41
travelling. In addition, you know, taking
40:45
kids. Some kids travel really well.
40:47
Our kids travelled well, but some kids like getting them out
40:50
of their routine, getting them to sleep.
40:53
I mean it. Time.
40:54
Change like it can. The hall, you're just like, this
40:56
is a beat down, we're exhausted. And if you have to pay for it,
41:00
it's like it's an additional expense in addition to the
41:03
holidays. Yeah, yeah.
41:06
I think for Ashley and I, we've just decided like we are going
41:09
to do things that make our family healthier and enjoy and
41:12
make memories. Yeah.
41:13
And like we shouldn't be exhausted after the.
41:15
Holidays. Yeah, everyone feels like, oh,
41:17
it's just the thing we have to do is be exhausted.
41:19
We're just going to run, run, run.
41:20
No, let's make it fun and enjoy it.
41:23
Yep. And slow down and just do the
41:25
things that sound fun to us. And that probably sounds a
41:28
little selfish, but it's it's Indy's whole.
41:30
Life. That's right.
41:31
You want to see us frantically doing all these things and
41:35
traveling and all this stuff or like, no, we should model health
41:37
and fun and family. You want joy bonds with the
41:40
holidays, not dread. Totally.
41:43
Well, for older generations, give serve, give serve, give
41:47
serve. You do those two things.
41:50
It's it fixes most of the problems.
41:53
And you know, and sometimes too, think about it this way.
41:59
So let's say it's a Christian family and they've got their
42:01
kids. They want to go to their church.
42:04
Yeah. The kids want to go see their
42:05
friends and they want to go to church with other families.
42:09
Yeah. You know, like they've got their
42:12
life and. And that's that could be very,
42:16
very important to them. And like, I remember as a kid, I
42:20
still, I still remember, even though we grew up Catholic, I
42:22
remember candlelight service Christmas Eve is one of the
42:25
highlight memories of my entire childhood.
42:27
I look forward to it every year. And so, yeah, let the kids,
42:32
yeah, live their life. And and, you know, thinking
42:34
about it too, like I, I just feel horrible that, I mean,
42:37
Chris, I've been in ministry. So like every Christmas Eve for
42:41
30 years, I have worked. And so if there was a family
42:44
like this saying now Christmas Day you got to get on a plane,
42:47
I'd be like, then we don't actually have a family
42:49
Christmas. I'm working and then we're
42:52
traveling. And that's not a memory I want.
42:56
Yeah. And we would move to Florida
42:57
anyway, so. That was our grandkids.
43:01
Or we would move to wherever the people are from Florida, away
43:04
from Florida to where the people live.
43:06
Unless it was New York. Yes, or Seattle.
43:08
Force your kids to. Move.
43:09
Our grandkids would not grow up in New York anyways, because all
43:13
of you guys would move. None of you would stay for.
43:16
Sure. Again, to get this resource, fix
43:20
your family system, text Family to 99383.
43:23
We'll send you a digital copy and you guys get the print one
43:26
if you'd like. Thank you for joining us for
43:28
this special Thanksgiving episode of The Mark Driscoll
43:31
Show. We'll see you guys next week.