Latest / The You Project / #2229 Fall Down, Get Up, Repeat - Bobby Cappuccio

Transcript

#2229 Fall Down, Get Up, Repeat - Bobby Cappuccio · The You Project

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: G'day team, it's Harps, it's Bobby, it's Tiff. This is
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: take two because Craig threw his glow mesh in the
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: shag pile. Craig spat the dummy. Craig. I did a
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: little bit, Tiff, didn't I?
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: A little bit, a little bit, but it's so fun
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: and entertaining.
• 0:17
  Speaker 3: Oh, hi Bobby. Hey, what's going on, Craig? Hey, Tiff.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: It's me.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: It's all going on. Bobby now feels bad because he
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: thinks he was the problem, but he definitely wasn't the problem.
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: He just put his grown-up pants on.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: I know. He put his big boy pants on. Oh, dear.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: How's work, mate? Are you busy? Are you up to
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: your eyeballs in inspiring and teaching and coaching humans?
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: It's getting quite busy and like these pants are like,
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: you know, at least the size too big for me.
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: But anyway, not the point. Things are getting really busy.
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: So there's a lot of conferences popping up. So there's
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: a lot to do as of late.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: How do you ensure if it's possible, this is for
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: both of you because you're both busy. How do you
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: assure quality control in terms of what you're giving people
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: in terms of your energy and the information and the
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: user experience, for want of a better term? Bobby, let's
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: start with you.
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: I hope I'm not thinking too much about quality control
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: on the day, although I'm not saying that doesn't happen
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: because it does. But I usually walk in with almost
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: framing like a story. on my best days. One, what's
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: the quintessential problem that I'm trying to solve, right? Like
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: why am I even speaking? And then taking a look
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: at almost like the meta myth, Campbell structure. Okay, so
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: how do we craft this? Because everybody's on a journey, right?
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: So what's the activating event? Like where are people right now?
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: What's the activating event that compels people to action? What
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: are the challenges that'll come up that people try to
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: solve along the way? And what are some new problems
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: that happen? What's the major definite challenge? That people have
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: the choice. They come to that decision, the abyss, and
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: they need to resolve that. They need to cross that chasm.
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: And who on the other end of that can people become?
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: So it's kind of like, what's the problem? Why does
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: it hurt so bad that you might need to take
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: action on it?
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: Like, like you're even here. What's the vehicle, right? Like,
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: how are you going to take action? What's the actual
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: steps and what's on the other side of that in
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: terms of transformation? And somewhere in that, who also has
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: done the same thing that you're trying to do? So
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: try to pull a story that frames it, that's compelling,
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: or try to pull from empirical evidence that supports what
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: I'm saying that day. So it's kind of like, that's
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: my framework. And as long as I work within that framework,
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: it gets me out of my head and into the audience.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: I guess I was asking, that is interesting. Thank you.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: But I was also thinking about how do you... optimize
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: your focus, your physical and mental energy, your attention. And therefore,
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: like I used to think, how many personal training sessions
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: can I do per day at the same level and
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: give the same level of care and attention and impact?
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: And If I'm being honest, probably sessions one to four
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: were fucking great. Maybe four to eight, pretty good. And
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: maybe eight to 12, they weren't getting the same value
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: as the 7am people. Like, is that ever a thing
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: for you, Bobby?
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: Not when it comes to speaking, because if I'm doing
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: a major event, it's probably the only thing of that
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: type that I'm doing. So everything else doesn't have a
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: lot of overlap. So I might do two events in
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: a day, but that's usually the maximum. So as long
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: as I protect space and energy around those events, like
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to rock up straight out of a
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: meeting and walk out on stage. That's crazy. Usually that's
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: not an issue. It's normally how I mentally prepare and
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: how I channel my energy and thought process. on my
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: way over there before I even open up my mouth.
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: And that usually has, I would say about 50% to
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: do with the impact and the experience of the people
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: in the room, not the actual content. Yeah, right.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: Nice.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: What about you, Cook? How do you keep yourself up
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: and about if that's a thing?
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I definitely, especially in the world of personal training,
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: dealing with people one-on-one, I never had a big threshold
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: for lots of clients in one day. It was always
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: a matter of, I knew my limit and because I'm
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: all in, I'm like, and I'm all there. So then
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: when you've got a lot on or you're distracted, it's
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: just a bite-sized moment you need to be there.
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: And I think that knowing that Knowing that is good
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: for your self-management and self-regulation, but it's also good for
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: your clients because as much as you can ensure they're
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: getting somewhere near the same quality of product, for want
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: of a better term, every time. Yeah, yeah. You know,
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: like the amount of times where I was not in
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: a good mood or I did not have good energy
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: or I literally, when I was very young, I was
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: going out with this lady who was a lovely lady.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: We broke up and I got no minute sleep. I
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: got zero minute sleep and I had to come from
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: that to train my first person up 5.30 and probably
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: physically just the hardest day of my life and also
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: emotionally because it was, you know, but that's the human
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: experience and you can't then, I probably could have but
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: I probably didn't want it canceled 12 appointments or whatever
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: stupid diary I had organized. If I don't manage me,
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: and it seems selfish, but if I don't eat great,
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: if I don't train regularly at least, if I don't
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: sleep great, if I don't hydrate well, my brain doesn't
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: work well. My attention's not as good. My focus, even
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: just the quality of my thoughts, it's not at the
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: same level. So Yeah, it's trying to, what do I need?
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: It's like a racing car. What do I need to
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: do to this car to make it go fast and
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: not break down?
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: How is that selfish?
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: You're right. No, that's a good question, mate. It probably isn't,
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: but I think it's generosity dressed up as selfishness in
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: a way because, you know, it's like even right now
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: as we're in to take two of this podcast, I
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: feel bad about the first 10 minutes because Right. And,
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: and I'm whatever. Right. But it's like trying to be
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: the best version of you for people. Um, if it's
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: a Saturday and I'm not seeing anyone, I don't care
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: so much if I'm tired or if I'm a bit
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: this or that, but yeah. Do you, do you think
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: that looking after yourself first is, uh, in some ways
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: an act of, uh, what's the word, not kindness, but
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: kind of kindness to yourself and others. Cause they get
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: the best you then.
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: Well, you use the analogy of a race car, right?
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: And this is something that I kind of want to
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: dig into because I think it is at the root
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: of a lot of problems we have, especially around self-help,
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: where we have this, like, divisive like thinking about everything
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: it's either this or it's this but just to answer
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: that question getting back to you talked about a race
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: car let's say you were a formula one driver and
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: your team and your sponsors invested a ton of money
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: in you and like oh i don't want to be
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: selfish i'm not going to protect my sleep time i'm
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: not going to like protect my diet you rock up
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: and you're half asleep and you send that car flying
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: into a wall Not only are you risking your safety,
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: but you've just ruined the race. You just ruined the
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: entire investment. That's not selfish at all, is it?
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: But I think sometimes it's like well-being now. Let's not
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: waste time defining what we're talking about when we say
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: well-being because that ruins a perfectly useless argument. But there's
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: one end where you have these people that tell you
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: to grind yourself into the earth until your soul is
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: filing for workers comp. And then you have on the
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: other end of it, the total self-care bubble bath, sit
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: in a meditative pose and just take a break from
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: the world and check out for the next 12 to
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: 13 months. And it's like they're both right and they're
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: both wrong at the same time. I mean, what are
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: you trying to do? What's the performance you're trying to
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: elicit and why and for who? And what do you
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: have to get there? Like if somebody said, well, you know,
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: I just got a sales job and I'm taking a
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: bunch of sales courses. Nobody's going to say, well, that's
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: really selfish or wow, you need to spend more time
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: at self-care. It makes sense. If I want to get better.
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: at sales, I got to do sales training and go
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: out and do sales calls. If I want to get
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: better at doing anything, well-being comes into that. I got
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: to do the things that elicit the performance that people
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: are depending on me. And that's also personally meaningful intrinsically
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: Do you think for specifically for mums, sometimes mums, it's
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: harder just because it's all well and good, but I
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: have three kids and there's just shit that I cannot
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: do practically where you maybe have to figure out a
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: compromised version or maybe even put things on hold or
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: Like I feel like three single people on a podcast
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: is not representative of our audience.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: You literally read my mind about the mums and I
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: think that it can be such a trap for people because.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: I just realised Bobby's not single. I apologise. I don't
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: know why I said that. I think I was thinking
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: of we're not parents. So apologies, Robert.
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: No, I know what you mean.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: Also, Amy, sorry. You are very much his wife. Sorry.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: And in other news, Craig puts foot in mouth again.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: Go on. Fuck, I'm going great today. I might retire.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: I might come over to roll with the punches and
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: just fucking edit your show. Imagine that. No one needs that.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: Sorry, go on.
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: Can you babysit me, cat and dog?
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we forget that, I want to say
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: it again, feeling like probably you do because I don't
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: have kids and it feels weird to talk about it,
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: but you think about we put ourselves in a position
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: where we put them first and sometimes we run ourselves
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: into the ground and then what are we teaching them
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: by our example of? We put ourselves last. We put
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: ourselves last. We don't rest. We don't stop. And we
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: don't really become the best version of ourselves. I'm not
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: the best version of myself when I'm working all of
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: the time and getting obsessed with performance. But you don't
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: feel it in the moment. And then you're not the
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: best for the people around you.
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: I reckon if I'm eight years old and my mum's
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: neglecting herself and she's all about me, I don't give
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: a fuck. I'm like, yeah, bring it on, Mary. Do
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean? I don't know that kids
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: would pay that much attention to whether or not their
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: parents are looking after themselves. If the kids are being prioritised,
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: I think they'd just kind of enjoy the attention.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's the unconscious learned behaviour. You become a
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: product of kind of what you're around. It gets normalised.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: I think about it when couples.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: Want to stay together in a relationship that's not working
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: and not functional and not healthy for the kids and
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: well if you can't find love in that space if
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: you can't want to be with one another and show
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: that and and be then maybe it's not great for
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: the kids because you're because they they feel the energy
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: like we feel each other's emotions we see we know
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: they won't have words for it but They're essentially learning
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: how you do love with the person that you supposedly
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: is your one person in the world that you care
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: about the most.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's tricky territory, isn't it? Because you can, like
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: you could make a case for both sides.
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: Like you could say, well, let's, we don't hate each other.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: Let's coexist. Let's create as good a space as we can.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: But then at the same time, do you want to
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: kind of pretend you're in love for seven years until
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: we're like, What are your thoughts on.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: That, Bobby?
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: Well, I don't have kids, so that's a hard one
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: for me. I don't know if we would decide to
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: stay together or split up for the sake of the cats.
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: I don't know how deeply impacted they would be. But
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: I feel, just pulling from my own personal experiences, if
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: my adopted mother would have gotten a divorce... early, like,
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: or not have gotten married at all, it would have
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: changed my life dramatically. And yeah, just to be candid,
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: it would have changed my life for the better because
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: that guy was a complete psycho. So I know not
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: everybody's living with a psychopath and is in a very
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: dangerous situation. But I know exes of mine who have
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: discussed their separations where there was constant disrespect and fighting.
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: no matter how much they try to avoid it. Like
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: the person would follow them into rooms and here's a
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: kid and they're seeing this. And it not only says,
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: you're not safe here because we are not a cohesive unit.
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: It's also training them how to treat mom, which is
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: in this case, it was boys, which is highly destructive.
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: There's a lot to think about. And I feel, I
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: just can't bring myself to say, if you're in a
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: situation that is unsafe or abusive, stay in that for
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: the sake of anything. That's a very hard position to take.
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: And I don't think I would ever take that position.
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: My mind goes to like get out. But then on
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: the other hand, relationships are very, very hard. And it
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: takes constant work and it takes change and communication. And
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: a lot of times what would cause somebody to go, right,
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: you know, I'm just not getting the same feeling that
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: I was getting when we first met. No shit, you're
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: not the same person you were when you first met
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: this person, neither are they. And you kind of made
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: that commitment, like you're my person. So I feel like
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: before getting there, what's at the root of the issue
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: and can we communicate our way through this? Because it's always,
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: it's always going to be hard. It doesn't mean it's
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: not going to be beautiful a lot of the times,
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: but it's always going to be work.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: But also for that to transpire, for there to be
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: real change and proceeding that communication and conversation and dialogue, uh,
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: both people need to be in the same alignment as
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: in wanting that. And then you get one.
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: That's the tricky bit.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: I watched this show the other night, Insight on, is
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: it channel, is it SBS or I think it's SBS
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: or ABC anyway. This lady talking about her life with
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: this bloke for 30 years where he basically threatened to
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: kill her if not every day, nearly every day, and just, oh.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, I wanted to turn it off. I
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: absolutely wanted to turn it off because it just, it
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: like hurt me. And then this, my higher voice went, oh,
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: how much do you reckon it hurt her? Shut the
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: fuck up and keep watching this. And it nearly made
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: me sick. And yeah, I know my anger doesn't alleviate
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: anything else and me getting angry in that sitch, but
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: I was so fucking angry. I was so frustrated. I'm
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: so mad that some people are like that and do
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: that to people. And I know that means fuck all
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: on a podcast talking. But, yeah, that's why I think
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: there can't really be any hard and fast rules because
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: every situation or a lot of situations are so different,
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: And everyone has their own kind of. stuff and reason
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: as to why they would have a particular stance. Like
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: if someone's grown up in a broken home without a
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: mom and dad staying married, then obviously their perception of
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: what is good and what's not good is very different
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: to someone who was in a loving home or one
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: that was in a dysfunctional home. You've got three completely
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: different outlooks.
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: And isn't it amazing how how much parents teach kids
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: how to be without saying a word. Like you said, Tiff,
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: they kind of get, well, this is what mum does,
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: this is what dad does, this is how our house is,
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: this must be how families work, this must be how
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: mums work and dads work because this is my only
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: frame of reference because this is the only family and
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: the only home I've ever lived in So for good
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: or bad, that becomes their normal or that becomes their
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: reference point, you know, as they move through the world
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: and as they grow. And, of course, aggressive fathers or
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: abusive fathers produce abusive and aggressive sons at a higher
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: rate than normal in inverted commas, you know.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: Then what's interesting is, you know, I'm going to say 50%,
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: that's silly, I don't know, but... a percentage of people
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: will become something to move away from that which they
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: were brought up in and another percentage will follow in
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: the footsteps. And that in itself is interesting and then
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: adds a layer of complexity to the whole conversation.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: Yes, I agree. I think Bobby did that, mate. I
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: think you were around so, like you were drawn to
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: self-help and personal growth and positive psychology and human improvement.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: Probably because you're around the opposite of that. Like you
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: got zero of that. And I know you had a
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: few mentors in your life that were probably game changers
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: for you. But maybe somewhere in your young brain, you went,
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure what I want to be, but I
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: don't want to be that.
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there was a lot of that going on where
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: it was so extreme, his belief systems, that and his behaviors.
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: And sometimes I would try to align with them, not
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: out of consensus, but out of protection, safety. And even
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: then I was like, this is completely bullshit. So I
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: was like, I know one thing I don't want to
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: be is like him when I grow up. You got
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: to be really mindful because a lot of times certain
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: character traits slip in. I think I got a lot
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: from my adopted mother without realizing it because I didn't
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: want to be anything like her either. But in a
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: lot of ways, I am. with my extreme neuroticism, extreme anxiety.
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: Like Amy's like, oh my goodness, there's two of you.
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: And it's like, oh, that's where that probably comes from.
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: But there were conscious decisions and observations I made of
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: his behavior saying, yeah, this cannot be the way. And
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: it's really funny because when I moved out of my
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: house and I was like, what, like 18 or I
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: had no idea how to exist in the world. So
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: I was just trying to watch other people and draw
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: conclusions and kind of mimic what they were doing. And
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: one of the things was when I started dating, I've
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: had this conversation. I dated the same person over a
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: decade apart. And she was like, one of the reasons
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: why I broke up with you is you were just so...
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: intensely romantic i didn't know what to do with it
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: and it's because i would watch how he treated people
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: and i was like oh i'm gonna be the opposite
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: it's like if she got out of the car i
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: would have rolled out a red carpet if i could.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: If i had one you would have laid down in
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: the puddle It.
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: Was kind of extreme, and it's because I had no
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: idea how to go on a date. All I had was, okay,
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: here's what he does. What's the complete opposite? Now, as
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: I got older and a lot more fucked up, I
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: resolved a lot of those issues. But in the beginning,
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: it was just me testing things in the world, just
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: trying to figure it all out, because I never really
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: had parenting to teach me anything at all.
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so funny how.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: How we assume things, especially when we're young and what
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: we think, like even with this, what, what, uh, what
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: might be attractive to a person, right? It's like kindness
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: and niceness and being thoughtful. Cool. But overbearing all day,
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: everyday texts and messages. And it's like, Oh, now it's
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: kind of creepy. You need to wind it back. Um,
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: I told someone this is coincidental. I'll be brief. Uh,
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: I used to be friends with this young guy. In fact,
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: he worked for me, but we were friends before that.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: He had this girlfriend who was, from a boy point
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: of view, fantastic. Like she was a nine, he was
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: a seven, maybe eight on a good day, right? So
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: he was a good looking boy. She was attractive. He
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: was super happy, super proud of himself. And he was
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: kind of cool, laid back, fun. Around her, he was
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: this pathetic, like fucking people-pleasing, couldn't do enough. And it's
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: even like all his friends are like, bro, cut back.
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: Like it's just. And in the end, she almost broke
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: up with him and he was in dire straits. And
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: I had to say to him, mate, it's like that
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: desperation to have her and for her to be into
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: you as much as you're into her, that desperation is
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: going to push her away. Just be a good dude.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: Just love her. Don't ring her 15 times a day.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: Don't fall on your sword nine times a day. Don't
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: tell her she's incredible 100 times a day. I know
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: it seems like a good idea, and Tiff, I could
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: be wrong, but I don't think most women are attracted
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: to that. It's like... You know, if I know that
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: he loves me and he's going to look after me
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: in the way that I want to be looked after,
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: whatever that means, and he's a good human, that's enough.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: I don't need 58 platitudes a day. That would fucking
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: annoy me. Am I right, Tiff, or no?
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: Go on, Bobby.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: Sorry.
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: No, but it has nothing to do with the other person.
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: It's almost insulting because you're not focused on that person.
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: You're focused on your own insecurities.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: And like those scenarios you have in your head that's
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: causing you to smother somebody. It's almost like imagine two twins,
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: identical twins, living in the same city but opposite sides
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: of town. They both go out on their own for
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: an evening. And they're both really good looking people. So
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: we can just rule out looks as a differentiating factor.
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: One twin walks into a pub. Looks around, says, oh,
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: I'm on my own. You know, I wonder who's into
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: me here. Twin on the opposite end of town walks
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: into a pub, looks around and says, I wonder who
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: I'm into. Now, all things being equal, which one of
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: those twins are going to have a better evening out?
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: And which one of those twins is going to most
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: likely go home and cry themselves into ice cream?
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: Maybe that's a little bit dramatic. I really hope it's
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: number one because that's what I do.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: What?
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: Cry yourself into ice cream?
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: I just walk in and go, who's going to be
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: into me? And I go, he is.
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: So the point of the story is pretty clear though, right?
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: It's like the first person is looking around going like, oh, well,
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: who's the easiest person in this pub? That's not very flattering, right?
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: That's driven by deep-rooted insecurity. The second person, no matter
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: how that turns out, is like, wow, I'm into that
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: person because there's something I'm curious about. Something about that
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: person is attractive to me. I think that's a much
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: better way to approach, not just dating, but individuals in general.
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: Smothering is not about the other person.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: Okay, here's my philosophical question. So we're single. and we
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: don't want to be single, and we go to a
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: bar or we go to a barbecue or we go
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: to a social event, are we better to be somewhat strategic,
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: as in how we interact with others, or are we
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: better to be just organically us, which may not? Like
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: are we better to be aware of it and think
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: about it and maybe consider how someone else– uh, responds
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: to us. I don't know. Is that a question?
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: I know, I know my vote. Tiff, what do you think?
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: Uh, well, I always hated dating and was in a
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: perpetual trauma response in that environment. So I have no
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: data to offer, but my thoughts are when people get older,
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: they tend to realize what actually matters to them matters
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: and they get straight to the point. And I think
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: when you're younger, you don't do that. You want, you,
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: think about what you should say to be liked. I
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: never wanted to be, I wanted to be the easy
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: chick to get along with, like the cool. I just
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: want you to think that I'm not difficult and I'm
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: cool and whatever. So I had no boundaries around. You
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: could say inappropriate, demeaning shit in front of me and
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: I would laugh at my own expense. That was a
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: version of me a long time ago. Whereas now I
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: would go, well, I would pick up on that. It's
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: very different. And I see it in, yeah, I guess
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: because of my age, I see it in friends that
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: are single now. They're like straight to, well, actually this matters.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: This matters to me. So we bring it up on
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: the first date. These are the stuff that matters. If
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: it doesn't matter to you, we're probably not a good fit.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: Catch up. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think that some people
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: are judgmental about people.
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: That are.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: Older and I don't know what I mean, but let's
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: say 45 and onwards and single and happily single i
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: think i don't know what do you two think about
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: that first it seems.
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: To bother some people there's a certain percentage of people
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: that are judgmental about absolutely anything and everything that's that's
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: a totally different issue but my question would be why
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: like what's it to you are you planning on dating
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: this person was marrying this person your life goal and
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: they're happily single and that just devastated you? Why are
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: you so invested in this person's life choices?
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: It's a little bit odd to me.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: I regularly get inquiries about basically what's wrong with you
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: or don't you want to be happy? And it's funny,
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: sometimes I'm talking to someone who is married and I
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: know I'm way more happy than them. And I'm like,
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: this is such an ironic question that you don't realise
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: you're asking. You know, I'm like, I'm not at all
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: against marriage or relationships at all. I'm not against hang gliding,
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: but I'm not going to do it. I'm not, you know,
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: could I ever be in a relationship? Of course. But
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: do I have a goal list and that's at the top? No,
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: I don't actually think about it. And it's funny because
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: I think some people struggle to believe that you truly
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: could be fulfilled and, you know, somewhat content and calm
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: or happy, but they probably don't realize that I have
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: lots of relationships that meet needs, social needs, emotional needs,
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: loving needs. Like I have people that love me and
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: care about me And which sounds weird. I don't care
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: if it does. I have my mum who takes a
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: lot of my love and my emotional energy. And yeah,
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: it's like, we don't all have to follow the same
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: path or the same protocol, no matter how familiar it is.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: Last year, when I had a conversation with Dr. Bruce Perry,
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: about exactly this. Before Scott weaseled his way into my life.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, fucking hell.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: Sneaky little bastard.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: He's like an infection, isn't he?
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: What a trickster.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: Just starts with a little cut in your knee. And
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: now he's invaded your whole fucking being.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: But I had this conversation with Bruce Perry, right, so
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: one of the top trauma therapists and child trauma therapists ever.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: arguably in the world. And I said to him, I said,
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: at that time, I have never been less interested in
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: relationships or dating and more so now in recent years.
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: And I know why, logically, and I understand it. And
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: I believe that humans are wired for connection, but I
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: am rewired and I'm okay with it. There's nothing in
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: me that is not okay with that connection. You know,
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: and so I think you can be both, but people
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: obviously put their own lens over. Like most people want
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: to connect or have something that, you know, they are that,
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: but they're just saying they're happy. Yeah. So I think
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: there is, yeah.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: I reckon also there's, sorry, Bobby, I reckon there's a
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: little bit that when you're kind of not interested, like genuinely, Tiff,
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: it's more attractive. Do you know what I mean? People
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: like more interested, more curious, more attracted because you're like, no,
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: I'm good, thanks. Not pretend I'm good. No, I'm actually good.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: Thank you. All the best. Knock yourself out, champ. That's
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: a flat no.
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: Sorry, Bobby. Go.
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: I just think that I suspect for a certain percentage
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: of people that are highly invested in how other people
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: are living their lives and just doing that comparison, I
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: feel like for a lot of us, we're just figuring
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: this shit out. And there's so much pressure to have
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: your shit together. Like one conversation that's coming up a lot,
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: you know, because like last year it was burnout. And
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: now it's work-life balance. And it's interesting. There's a book.
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: I think it's by Oliver Berkman. Yeah. He tells a
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: story where he's out in the middle of the winter
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: on a bench in Park Slope and Brooklyn winters are, well,
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: they're cold. And he lives pretty close to the park,
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: but he's out on this bench freezing and he's riddled
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: with anxiety because things are just piling up. And there's
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: this enormity of demands on him. And given his background
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: in leadership management, you think the default would be, well,
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: get a better time management system, get better organized. And
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: the reason why he has this anxiety is he realizes
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: that you're never going to get it all done. You're
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: never going to have your shit completely together. Your life
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: is never going to be in perfect balance. This is
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: going back to what we started with. And I think
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: there's this ideal and then there's this reality. And because
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: social evidence, I mean, like it or not, as independent
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: and original the thinker you are. We are tribal people.
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: We're pack animals, humans. You look over at someone else
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: who's not doing the same thing. And it's like, God,
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: if I got it all wrong, I'm trying so hard
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: to get it right. And the title of his book
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: is 4,000 Weeks because his realization was an 80-year-old, if
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: you live to be 80, you get an average of
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: 4,000 weeks. Everything is highly finite. You don't have as
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: much time as you think you do. And I think
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: sometimes people are wondering, am I really living my life
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: on my own terms in a way that aligns with
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: my values? And I kind of look for consensus to
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: reassure me that I am. I look over at the neighbors.
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: They got the same car, lawn, 2.5 kids that I have.
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: You know, I mean, it's a shame about that 0.5 kid,
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: but it's reassuring for me.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's just floating around in heaven waiting for his
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: shot to join another half. See, Tiff, you're always learning.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: You didn't know this stuff. We've got to wind up
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: because I've got a thing. Bobby, the self-help antidote is
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: up and about the podcast. It's back live. People can
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: find you on LinkedIn. They can find you at your website.
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: Is it just robertdacampuccio.com?
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: Nah, it's the self-help antidote.
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: Thank you. And Tiffany Cook, everyone can find you at
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: Scott's house.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: Everyone can find Scott at my house.
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: Just trying to get rid of the virus that is Scotty.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: Just keep using that powder and the cream and you
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: never know. He'll be gone before you know it. Of course,
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: roll with the punches, this podcast. Thanks, everyone. Talk to
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: you two kids in a minute.