Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #1011 - This Week in Parenting: Smacking & Socials

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#1011 - This Week in Parenting: Smacking & Socials · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

0:03
Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast.
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Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just
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Speaker 2: wants answers Now.
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Speaker 3: Every month we review the latest parenting news. It's called
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Speaker 3: This Week in Parenting, This Week in Parenting. Hello, I'm
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Speaker 3: doctor Justin courslon On here with my wife Mum to
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Speaker 3: our six daughters, missus Happy Families, Kylie Coulson, Kylie. Normally
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Speaker 3: we try to rush through five big stories in fifteen minutes.
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Speaker 3: Not going to happen today Number one hasn't been a
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Speaker 3: whole lot of parenting news. Number two to really big stories.
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Speaker 3: We've got one about ongoing discussions around social media bands
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Speaker 3: for kids and some recent research about smacking in Australia.
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Speaker 3: Where should we start? You sound like you don't want
0:52
Speaker 3: to do This Week in Parenting? This is my favorite episode.
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Speaker 3: I mean, I just have so much fun with this one.
1:00
Speaker 3: What's the matter? What's the matter?
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Speaker 2: I honestly, I can't believe we're still having conversations about smacking.
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Speaker 3: Oh. It is a bit depressing, isn't it.
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Speaker 2: It really is. It really is to think that at
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Speaker 2: this stage of understanding and progression as a society, there
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Speaker 2: is still a debate about whether or not I should
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Speaker 2: be able to smack my kid.
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Speaker 3: And so where do you stand on this?
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Speaker 2: I wasn't expecting you to ask me that question. I
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Speaker 2: don't think it's actually relevant. Oh, whether I have an
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Speaker 2: opinion about it or not. But the research is really
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Speaker 2: clear there is nothing positive that comes from smacking our kids.
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Speaker 1: A new study has revealed that Australians are more open
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Speaker 1: to smacking their children compared to parents in other high
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Speaker 1: income countries, just over fifty percent of Ossie parents admitting
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Speaker 1: to using corporal punishment at least once.
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Speaker 3: Let's have a look at what the study show. Astrained
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Speaker 3: parents are more open to smacking their kids than parents
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Speaker 3: in other high income country.
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Speaker 2: Did they tell us why?
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Speaker 3: Well, let's have a look at it. Doctor Carolina Gonzalez
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Speaker 3: let to study comparing Australian attitudes to those found in Belgium, Canada, Germany,
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Speaker 3: Hong Kong, Spain, Switzerland, and the UK. Notice which major
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Speaker 3: country is not there?
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Speaker 1: China?
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Speaker 3: Well, China's not there either, hard to do research in China.
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Speaker 3: The USA was not there either. We know that the
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Speaker 3: USA is highly pro smacking. It's like gun rights and
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Speaker 3: smacking rights. We should be allowed to do whatever we
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Speaker 3: want and Australian parents, though in the countries that were examined,
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Speaker 3: reported the highest level of acceptability of corporal punishment of children.
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Speaker 3: Which is really odd because I mean, for years I've
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Speaker 3: been making noise that we need to band smacking, make
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Speaker 3: it illegal, draw a line in the sound and just
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Speaker 3: say this is something that we don't do here anymore.
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Speaker 3: When you draw that line in the sand and provide
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Speaker 3: appropriate education and support for parents who are struggling, what
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Speaker 3: happens is over a handful of years, change occur. So
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Speaker 3: I'm all for the ban. I'm all for making it illegal.
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Speaker 3: I think that it's absolutely the right thing to do.
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Speaker 3: Not if it means that we start to punish parents
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Speaker 3: and find them and imprison them, that's not helpful, but
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Speaker 3: rather because it draws that line and then we provide
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Speaker 3: the relevant education. What the study showed, by the way,
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Speaker 3: six thy seven hundred parents of children aged two to twelve,
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Speaker 3: sixty two and a half percent of OSSIE adults had
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Speaker 3: experienced corporal punishment three times or more before they turned eighteen.
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Speaker 3: I'm surprised that it's that low, and fifty three point
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Speaker 3: seven per cent of Australian parents had used corporal punishment
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Speaker 3: at least once again, I'm surprised that it's that low.
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Speaker 3: I would have thought it's higher, especially based on the
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Speaker 3: conversations that I have with parents every single day. Basically
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Speaker 3: the reasons for it. Australia is a really individualistic country,
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Speaker 3: and there's a real push that I should be allowed
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Speaker 3: to do what I think is right without anybody telling
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Speaker 3: me what to do. We don't have that collectivist culture.
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Speaker 3: And in addition to that, when we look historically, it's
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Speaker 3: something that's always happened in Australia. It's just what we've
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Speaker 3: done here. You know, this is really interesting about the study.
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Speaker 3: Of the eight countries that were examined, only German in
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Speaker 3: Spain have banned smacking banned corporal punishment completely. So a
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Speaker 3: handful of others have banned in separate settings, but very
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Speaker 3: much Germany and Spain in the study. Check this out.
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Speaker 3: This is really interesting though, on my argument for the
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Speaker 3: ban in German. In Spain, parents did not consistently show
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Speaker 3: less acceptance and use of corporal punishment and other similar strategies.
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Speaker 3: So even that how long has the band been in for,
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Speaker 3: I don't know how long they've had it banned for.
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Speaker 3: I would assume I mean, we've got sixty three countries
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Speaker 3: I think it is now around the world that are
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Speaker 3: band smacking. Most of them have only done it fairly recently.
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Speaker 3: Some did it a long time ago, but they were
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Speaker 3: absolutely like real world leaders in that particular area.
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Speaker 2: I think back to the conversations we've had recently on
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Speaker 2: the podcast about seat out laws and how long it
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Speaker 2: took for a systematic change to take place across nation.
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Speaker 3: It's a generational thing, it really is.
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Speaker 2: So the fact that there isn't necessarily a shift in
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Speaker 2: mentality at this point isn't a suggestion that it's the
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Speaker 2: wrong move. It's just an acknowledgment that these things really
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Speaker 2: do take time.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, let me be really clear for those who have
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Speaker 3: maybe missed the conversations we've had previously in like sixty
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Speaker 3: seconds or less. Morally, I think we've got really big
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Speaker 3: problems when it comes to this idea that it's okay
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Speaker 3: to hit kids. Just the moral argument doesn't stack up.
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Speaker 3: How is it right that a person who's twice you're
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Speaker 3: height and five times your way is allowed to give
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Speaker 3: you a whack? If a three and a half meter tall,
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Speaker 3: three hundred and fifty kilogram person, that adult came and
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Speaker 3: stood beside me and threatened to hit me, I'd probably
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Speaker 3: wet my pants like just.
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Speaker 2: And even a tap, oh yeah, would feel like an
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Speaker 2: assault on me.
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Speaker 3: It would be terrifying, Absolutely terrifying. And that's what happens,
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Speaker 3: especially when you're hitting tottles, and the younger the child,
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Speaker 3: the more likely is that they'll get hit. As kids
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Speaker 3: get older, they get hit by their parents a lot less.
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Speaker 3: A want of parents will say, well, you can't reason.
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Speaker 3: You just can't reason with a toddler. My argument against
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Speaker 3: that is where you can't reason withhe it dementia patient either,
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Speaker 3: So should we start hitting eighty year olds? I mean,
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Speaker 3: it's just nuts. It doesn't stand up.
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Speaker 2: Every time we have this conversation. I just feel so frustrated.
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Speaker 2: Why would I want my child to be scared of me?
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Speaker 2: Why would I want them to fear me? If everything
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Speaker 2: I am doing is about building a loving, safe environment
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Speaker 2: and a connective relationship with my child, why would I
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Speaker 2: go out of my way to jeopardize all of the
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Speaker 2: good that I'm doing everywhere else?
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Speaker 3: Yeah? And research, I mean, we've talked about the moral
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Speaker 3: and philosophical side of things, but from a research point
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Speaker 3: of view, it just it doesn't stack up. We've got
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Speaker 3: sixty years of smacking research. Now, this is not abuse,
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Speaker 3: this is not hardcore violence towards children. Were just talking
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Speaker 3: about smacking in America, they'd call it spanking. Fifty sixty
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Speaker 3: years of research now shows that there are no redeeming
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Speaker 3: qualities except that you might sometimes get a short term
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Speaker 3: response where you get the behavior looking for, but it
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Speaker 3: doesn't last. It is problematic, and there are just better
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Speaker 3: things to do. The biggest issue is we've got to
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Speaker 3: educate parents on better things to do. I've written a
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Speaker 3: couple of books about this stuff, Parenting Revolution. Grab a
7:09
Speaker 3: copy of The Pairing Revolution if you want to know
7:11
Speaker 3: what to do instead of hitting your kids. There's just
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Speaker 3: so much there. So that's our first story. We've got
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Speaker 3: a problem with the culture. The good news is the
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Speaker 3: numbers are improving. The numbers definitely trending in the right direction,
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Speaker 3: and more and more I'm speaking with parents who are
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Speaker 3: trying so hard to be gentle and kind and compassionate
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Speaker 3: with their kids while still having limits where necessary. So
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Speaker 3: that's a good sign. But there's still a lot of
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Speaker 3: work to do. Story number two.
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Speaker 1: Opening the door to an Australian first, that will shut
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Speaker 1: off social media to essay children.
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Speaker 3: A very significant and ambitious move to limit the harm
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Speaker 3: of social media on our children.
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Speaker 2: Social media bands. This continues to be a conversation piece.
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Speaker 3: The momentum is building, The momentum is really really building,
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Speaker 3: and I'm so excited about it. I'm really happy about
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Speaker 3: what we're doing here. We are taking a slightly different
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Speaker 3: route to some others. So there's a guy called Whipper.
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Speaker 3: He's on the radio in Sydney. Some people will know
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Speaker 3: who he is. Has been around for a pretty long
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Speaker 3: time now. Thirty six months. Thirty six months is what
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Speaker 3: Michael Whipfley Whipper and Rob Gluso, the founder of the
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Speaker 3: production company Finch, are arguing. They're saying, let's raise the
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Speaker 3: minimum age that Australian teenagers can sign up for social
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Speaker 3: media accounts from thirteen to sixteen. Let's do that by
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Speaker 3: them an additional thirty six months of cognitive development, intellectual development,
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Speaker 3: psychological development, social development, emotional development. Let's keep them away
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Speaker 3: from all of the awful stuff that happens. I mean
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Speaker 3: the amount of explicit material, the amount of unsolicited non
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Speaker 3: consensual nudes, the bullying, the just the rubbish that goes
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Speaker 3: around on social media, working really hard, working really hard
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Speaker 3: with politicians, working really hard with movers and shakers to
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Speaker 3: get some legislation over the line to protect our kids
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Speaker 3: age thirteen to sixteen. Everyone's talking about it. It's a
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Speaker 3: really big deal, and more and more politicians are starting
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Speaker 3: to get behind. I think politicians have taken the snip
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Speaker 3: of the air and said, oh, this could be a
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Speaker 3: vote winner. This work. We've got parents who are really
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Speaker 3: worried about it. Maybe that's a bit cynical of me,
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Speaker 3: but I think that they're getting the message and they're
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Speaker 3: heading in that direction. I fully support what they're doing.
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Speaker 2: I really love the concept. And just you know, thinking
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Speaker 2: about thirty six months, it just made me think about
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Speaker 2: the wrestle we've had as parents about whether or not
9:35
Speaker 2: to start our children at school at earlier ages. We've
9:41
Speaker 2: gone both ways. We've had a child going very early
9:44
Speaker 2: because of her birthday cut off, and then recognized with
9:48
Speaker 2: time that that probably wasn't the best option, and so
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Speaker 2: we held our other daughter back from starting school and
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Speaker 2: she got to enjoy.
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Speaker 3: An extra twelve months of childhood.
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Speaker 2: Of child and it really made such a different right.
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Speaker 2: And when I see that and marry that up with
10:05
Speaker 2: what we're talking about here, and giving our children, our
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Speaker 2: preteens and early teens, another chance to just be kids
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Speaker 2: for a little bit longer. I just I applaud them
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Speaker 2: for even trying.
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Speaker 3: So the groundswell is heading in this direction. Here's some
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Speaker 3: really interesting research. Some studies were done a few years
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Speaker 3: ago highlighting that if you want to create social change,
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Speaker 3: you've got to get twenty five percent of the population
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Speaker 3: behind you. Once you've got twenty five percent, that's the
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Speaker 3: tipping point, and that's when the momentum really starts to flow.
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Speaker 3: I believe that the menum is there. The momentum is shifting,
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Speaker 3: and it's really strong, and that's why politicians are getting
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Speaker 3: behind it. Earlier this year, we had Julian mcgrant on,
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Speaker 3: she's the e Safety Commissioner, and we were talking about
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Speaker 3: how the federal government had refused last year her recommendation
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Speaker 3: for age verification technology to keep kids away from explicit
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Speaker 3: content online. They just said, no, we're not going to
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Speaker 3: do it. She just was suggesting a pilot, just a trial,
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Speaker 3: let's see if we can get it going. Federal government
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Speaker 3: said no. They've backflipped on that. Now hallelujah. And they've
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Speaker 3: said they're going to do that. Why because the public
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Speaker 3: are begging. The public are begging for protection for kids.
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Speaker 3: What whippers trying to do here? I love it. Now,
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Speaker 3: I'm going to be a little bit of a I
11:15
Speaker 3: don't know, I'm going to poopil it a little bit
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Speaker 3: as well. Though. The problem is, I don't think we
11:19
Speaker 3: can wait for legislation. It's going to take a long time.
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Speaker 3: Doing it state by state won't work. It's got to
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Speaker 3: be federal. It has to happen at the commonwealth level.
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Speaker 3: If it happens at the state level, there's just going
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Speaker 3: to be too much inconsistency and that will cause problems
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Speaker 3: at the federal level. Australia is, in so many ways
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Speaker 3: kind of at the whim or mercy of what America does.
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Speaker 3: As America goes, so goes the rest of the world. However,
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Speaker 3: it's possible that we could create the age verification technologies.
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Speaker 3: But by the time this stuff gets legislated and then
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Speaker 3: the technologies are developed and implemented, oh my goodness, not
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Speaker 3: to mention if the companies like Meta decided to challenge
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Speaker 3: it in court, this could be a three four, five, eight,
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Speaker 3: ten year process, and frankly, I don't think we've got
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Speaker 3: that much time, So there's a lot of reasons why
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Speaker 3: this might not work. The top down approach is always
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Speaker 3: problematic as well, because if people don't like it, they
12:12
Speaker 3: won't get behind it and they'll rebel against it. And
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Speaker 3: we have those issues.
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Speaker 2: But I think what you're seeing, especially as you go
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Speaker 2: into communities, is parents are They're begging for it. They're
12:23
Speaker 2: begging for somebody else to kind of create the safe
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Speaker 2: playground for their kids. As parents. You talk about peer
12:34
Speaker 2: pressure for kids, but as adults we feel it too.
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Speaker 2: It's so intense, and when you feel like you're the
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Speaker 2: only parent in the whole wide world who's stopping your
12:44
Speaker 2: kids from joining in, it can be really, really, really hard.
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Speaker 2: And for most of us, we struggle to make that
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Speaker 2: stand because we fear that our kids are going to
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Speaker 2: miss out.
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Speaker 3: Quick story this year, I reckon I've done about one
12:57
Speaker 3: hundred and thirty presentations already. It's been such a busy
12:59
Speaker 3: year for me, traveling, giving presentations, corporate's keynotes, whatever, at schools.
13:03
Speaker 3: But I was in a school and a mom put
13:06
Speaker 3: up a hand and said, I've got this, I've got
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Speaker 3: this issue. Where my child keeps telling me that she's
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Speaker 3: the only one that doesn't have social media in a smartphone.
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Speaker 3: And I said, how old is your child? She said twelve.
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Speaker 3: I said to everyone in the room, can you please
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Speaker 3: put up your hand if your children are twelve and
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Speaker 3: don't have social media in a smartphone. About sixty percent
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Speaker 3: of hands went up, and I said, she's lying. Kids
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Speaker 3: have got so much energy for this, like they want
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Speaker 3: it so badly, and that's why we're doing so much
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Speaker 3: with this. Can we really unpluge childhood? Here's what I
13:33
Speaker 3: want to emphasize. If we can delay by committing to
13:36
Speaker 3: keeping smartphones and social media out of primary school and
13:39
Speaker 3: giving our children a play based childhood, we're already setting
13:43
Speaker 3: ourselves up for more success. And this is a bottom
13:45
Speaker 3: up approach. We don't have to wait for the politicians.
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Speaker 3: We can do this now. If we can build a
13:49
Speaker 3: community so that that mum can look around and say,
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Speaker 3: all of these other parents are doing the same thing,
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Speaker 3: but my kids are socially isolated, so let me use
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Speaker 3: the platforms that as an adult, I'm old enough to
13:59
Speaker 3: you to coordinate what's necessary for my kids to have
14:02
Speaker 3: the community around them and to have the social exposure
14:05
Speaker 3: and engagement and involvement that they need. That works. Let's
14:08
Speaker 3: stick together and create the village again. And then when
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Speaker 3: the time comes number three, go slow. When the time
14:14
Speaker 3: comes that you want to try to have a phone
14:15
Speaker 3: for safety reason, start with a dumb phone, because kids
14:18
Speaker 3: don't need smart phones. They need smart parents, and smart
14:20
Speaker 3: parents give their kids dumb phones. Have the conversation about
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Speaker 3: social media slowly. That to me, if Whipper and I
14:29
Speaker 3: could combine forces and he's got the top down focus
14:32
Speaker 3: with the politicians and the legislation, which will take a
14:34
Speaker 3: few years, and in the meantime, we just focus on
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Speaker 3: what we already know. Kids don't need smartphones and they
14:39
Speaker 3: don't need social media, and we all band together and
14:42
Speaker 3: make this work. It can actually happen. Oh, by the way,
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Speaker 3: I've created a website. I don't know if you knew
14:46
Speaker 3: that I've created a website to help with this. We'll
14:49
Speaker 3: link to the website in the show night. So we're
14:51
Speaker 3: going to be talking about on the podcast NonStop. There's
14:53
Speaker 3: just so much that we can do to help our
14:55
Speaker 3: kids feel better about life and be safe. And that's
14:57
Speaker 3: what I want to emphasize. That's really what I what
14:59
Speaker 3: I want emphasize.
15:01
Speaker 2: I've shared recently that I downloaded Snapchat so that I
15:04
Speaker 2: could stay in touch with some of the youth that
15:06
Speaker 2: I'm working with at the moment. I've actually been so
15:11
Speaker 2: happily surprised at how many don't have it, and I
15:16
Speaker 2: just applaud parents who are willing to be the baddie
15:22
Speaker 2: yeah in their kids' worlds in an effort to protect them.
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Speaker 3: So we will link to both our website to get
15:29
Speaker 3: your grassroots involvement as well as what Whip is doing
15:32
Speaker 3: with thirty six months. We'll link to that in the
15:34
Speaker 3: show notes. I have some reservations about whether or not
15:37
Speaker 3: we can make it work, but gee, I really really
15:39
Speaker 3: hope we can. I think that the momentum is there
15:41
Speaker 3: and we can make this happen. I hope you've enjoyed
15:44
Speaker 3: this week in parenting Today. The Happy Families podcast is
15:47
Speaker 3: produced by Justin Rowland from Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is
15:49
Speaker 3: our executive producer. More information is available I'm making your
15:52
Speaker 3: family Happier at Happy families dot com dot au