Latest / the Unvarnished Edit / Episode 20 - Unlocking Inner Power: The Journey Through Shadow Work (Spirituality 3 of 4)

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Episode 20 - Unlocking Inner Power: The Journey Through Shadow Work (Spirituality 3 of 4) · the Unvarnished Edit

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Welcome to season two, episode eight of The Unvarnished Edit, where two friends talk about what it's actually like to live an adversity-filled life.
Be prepared to laugh, possibly cry, and swear along with us.
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This is Angie, and today's episode is the third in our spirituality arc, where we discuss shadow work and how that coincides with our spiritual work.
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We hope you enjoy.
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Good morning.
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Morning.
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Good How are you today? All right, you know what? I hate these, the days where you, like, wake up and for some unknown reason you're just like, "Ew, why is today today? Yuck.
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I wanna go back to bed."
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I know.
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No, honestly, I, I get that.
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Today though, I woke up and it being, a Thursday, I was like, "Oh, okay.
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It's Thursday.
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Like, we're almost to the weekend."
'Cause when I got up to go to the gym this morning, I was like, "Honestly, why do I do this to myself? Like, do I hate myself? Like, why does my alarm go off at 5:30 in the morning so I can go to the gym?" You know, do you wanna hear this, weird thing that I do at the gym? Speaking of Yeah for the weekend.
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I lift weights three days a week, three times a week, Yeah I do three sets of each round of a thing on an app, whatever.
So usually the first set I'm like, "Okay, this is fine."
And then the second set I'm like, "Ew."
And so I name my sets Wednesday, Friday.
I'm like, when the first one is like, all right, I'm just warming up, it's just a Monday, it's fine.
And then when I'm in Yeah I'm like, it's Wednesday, you're almost there baby, you just gotta do this one more time.
And then when I do my third set, I'm like, it's Friday, I'm done.
And they're...
I'm literally just, like, curling weights.
So yeah, I name my sets Monday, Wednesday, Friday.
That's actually brilliant.
No, seriously, that's brilliant.
I was thinking the, the reason I was able to get up today is because I have changed.
So we know in this whole perimenopause, menopause journey, which can really go F itself, on an everyday basis it can go F itself.
The fact of the matter is in my life I have always up, down, right? But, like, all I have to do is start working out consistently and the weight will come off.
Well, no longer at this age.
So I have been going to the gym now for two and a half years, five to six days a week, and, when Todd got his new in-person job, then I had to take over doing the property, as we've kind of talked about before, like, going and feeding the chickens and the quail and watering all the trees.
And so, it has now gotten to the point where, I have to go there, like, twice a week and so that I just consider my gym because, one, I get almost the same amount of steps, but I always burn more calories because I have to bucket carry water to all of the trees, and we have, like, 28 to 30 of them.
pioneer oh no, seriously, it's, it's a lot.
But what that means is, I don't have to go to the gym those two days, right? So it is, like, really, like, one to three days a week that I have to go to the gym.
So, like, this morning I was like, "Okay, like, I, I go to the property tomorrow, so this is my last day that I have to go to the gym until Sunday.
Like, we can do this, and then I can wash all of my, clothes."
And I stopped lifting weights at the gym because I do so much at the property.
yeah Yes.
So I, like, have, like, I'm in functional lifting weights instead of, um, instead of doing that at the gym.
So I've literally just had to adjust all of...
Everything, of just having to adjust my mindset of, and I do my red light therapy before I walk on the treadmill, and I do the massage chair after.
So if I wanted to do the massage chair while I'm at the gym, like I have, yeah.
But we know that that's a made-up rule 'cause I have gone to the gym and not gone on the treadmill and just did the red light and massage therapy, and you know what? No, you It's all good Nobody called the police.
You don't have to do the Nobody, nobody did.
Nope.
I went into my to get the amenities Correct.
I pay for them every single month.
Yes.
listening...
my slides Yeah, I was listening to a podcast the other day, about, like, athlete performance and kind of relating some of those principles to just everyday, regular people performance.
And this guy was talking about this Olympic swimmer that he used to coach, and, They were, you know, just kind of talking about some mechanics, and the swimmer said, "You know, when I first get in the water every training run, I'm always like, 'Ugh, I'm so slow.
This sucks.
I can't do this.'"
He said, "So I started wearing fins on my warmup runs, and I would be swimming, and I'd be like, 'Dude, I'm so fast.
This is so great.
I'm gonna do so good.'"
And, like, just that mental switch of Yeah fast through his warmup because he had fins on completely changed, like, his whole training run, right? He was like, "I'm fast.
This is a great day."
And it's just so crazy how our brains are, like, so easy to trick.
It's so easy to trick your brain into thinking that you are something or that something Yes which is really just leads us to believe that anything we're thinking at any given time is probably not real because we're able to trick our brains into anything, and so they're, they're highly deceivable.
They are highly deceivable.
Yes, and, honestly, it's kind of, that is, that's kind of a great segue into today's episode.
Today's episode is we're gonna talk about shadow work, and that is all about going into our brain, right? And, like, identifying those spaces we wanna keep hidden.
And, it's both, I think when people think of shadow work, they think that it's all bad things, right? Just the term shadow work, I mean, shadows can be scary, right? But really what they are are just a reflection of you.
It's just that, that kind of, that kind of space.
I feel it's gotten kind of gotten twisted as far as, like, these are all, like, the bad pieces of you, you know, and that.
And a lot of times our shadow work is also just the things that we...
the positive things that we haven't stepped into as well, right? And so when that swimmer is looking at, "Oh my gosh, my mindset of I'm so fast, I can do this," He's an Olympic swimmer.
He's fast.
He's not slow.
Like, that's not a lie.
That's not a lie, right? Like, you are obviously fast.
I don't know if you've seen, like, some of the videos where they have, like, regular people next to, like, Olympic level.
I love it Right.
And you're like, wow, the perspective, like, like, difference between it.
Like, you're not lying to yourself.
You're just overcoming the belief that safety piece that tries to keep us protected.
It tries to keep us safe.
It has messages, you know, throughout our whole entire life that, you know, if, if I think, "Oh, I'm really good at this," what do we usually think? People who are, like, standing in their power and are saying, "I'm actually really good at this."
Like, our initial thought a lot of times is like, "You're kind of arrogant, aren't you?" When that's not necessarily the case at all.
Not saying that they're n- you know what I mean? Like, some people are arrogant, yes.
But just standing in your power and saying, "You know what? I'm really good at this, and I'm really fast," that's not arrogance in itself, right? Like, I think, you and I, we've talked about parenting, you know, numerous times, and we have both said, like, we're good parents.
We are.
We're, we're really good moms.
That's not arrogant.
That's like stepping in that place.
But we have had messages throughout our lives that are saying that we are, that we are bad, right? And so we have to overcome those thoughts and those things that have, you know, happened, some of the mistakes that we have made, in that life.
And so when we're talking about shadow work, I frame it more that it is really doing our safety template work.
Yeah If you've not listened to our safety template episode, it is, Number season one.
Episode four.
It's called Crafting Safety: Understanding Our Internal Templates.
But that is just what has been developed through childhood, right? That has just keeps us safe.
And when we're talking about doing shadow work, you might be questioning like, "What does this have anything to do with spirituality?" And I think it has everything to do with spirituality because Shadow work is the relationship we have with ourself.
And if, and we know that we can't have relationships with others if we don't have like true, honest, heartfelt, open, transparent, vulnerable relationships with others, if we don't have a relationship with ourselves, right? It's 'cause we're always coming from that, I would say, that mask of who we want people to see instead of who we actually are.
And so yeah, the shadow work to me is just identifying, okay, so who, who are you? What, what are those pieces that make you who you are? And your safety template is a lot of times those things that stay hidden, right? Because that is what keeps us safe.
That is what protects us, right? All of those thoughts and those feelings and, those kind, those behaviors are there to inform all of our future decisions and all of our future activities, right? And some of them are not correct.
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They're not pertinent anymore in our adult life.
You know, we talked about religious trauma the last spirituality episode, but it's kind of like going back and deconstructing Who you are and how to have a relationship with yourself.
And so I love, love shadow work because I feel that that is honestly, like, where our power resides.
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It is what allows me to identify what is keeping me from stepping into my power, what is keeping me from stepping into some of these things that I know that I'm actually really good at but I'm just too scared to do because of whatever the piece was, right? And so, like, looking at all of those pieces helps me identify those barriers to it, and that are just there to keep me safe, but they're no longer needed And I think some of them are so subconscious, they come from such a young age, Absolutely very often if we don't, as adults do a re-exploration who we think we are and where our values even are and, you know, sort of all of these different pieces, you're...
You could still have a great life and great relationships, but a lot of times it means you're running on autopilot, right? Of Mm-hmm.
Habits and belief systems and reactions to others are installed in your software at such a young age, and if you choose never to do an upgrade, a software upgrade, right, in your brain, you're just functioning from a really old, outdated template that might not be bad, might not be the greatest or the best that it could be.
And I Yeah natural...
We naturally internally have a drive to evolve, our, our spirituality, our relationship with ourselves, our relationship with others.
Like we're meant to evolve and have that grow alongside our physical body.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
So I wore my "Thanks, it's the trauma" shirt today, for today's episode because it is, right? Like, it is...
It's all those experiences that have, that have informed it, and are we ready to embrace them? Not saying that I don't behave in ways that I wish that I didn't sometimes.
Absolutely I do, right? As a human, I still have, you know, human things that happen, and I'm still, running off of it, but being able to identify those and not have any judgment on them.
That's why when you hear me talking and I'm...
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I always hesitate on, like, bad and good.
Those are, those are just human judgments that we place on this, you know? And I feel that way with shadow work.
Like, there is just a human judgment that is put on this that like, "Oh, I have to identify all the bad pieces of myself."
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No.
No.
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You don't.
You're identifying all of the processes that have kept you safe and that are no longer needed because all of our experiences, we can't help, like you said, about evolving because we have new experiences.
We have new perspectives.
There's no way we could ever look at the world the same even two days from now Yeah because we have had experiences since then.
And so kind of looking, doing that, that work on ourselves as far as identifying, like, what is driving my behavior, what does that look like, man, it's so powerful and releases so much if you allow it.
'Cause you could look at it two separate ways, right? Like, you could look into shadow work and be like, "Oh, my gosh, look at all of these things that are, that are broken, that don't, you know, work right, that don't...
You know, I, I'm so bad.
I can't believe I have this.
I can't believe that, you know, this has happened in my life, and, and all of this trauma, is still affecting me," right? Or you can look at it as, this is just information, Yeah and these things that have happened, yeah, they affect my day-to-day, and they affect how I respond, and they affect how I relate to others and those pieces.
And okay, so they do.
So what does that look like? And, you know, what are things we can change? But I mean, I, when I started doing this work, it was immediately that kind of piece to it.
And so I'm interested to hear, like, what got...
what brought you into shadow work? Well, I think the times that I do, the air quote, best kind of work is when it happens by accident for me.
Because I am extremely resistant to being vulnerable.
And Mm-hmm.
if I am presented with a situation in therapy or in my, with my friend conversations where I'm feeling like a push that, you know, "Let's work on this.
Let's talk about this," if you kind of really confront me in that way, I just immediately shut down because I'm not very comfortable, being vulnerable.
That's, you know, kind of like the biggest avoidant thing that I have.
And so Yeah do a lot better with these things if I do it by accident or without knowing that, we're doing intentional shadow work, right? Yeah And so for me, that usually comes from, relationship work when I recognize...
And this really does, for me, piggyback really well off of the conversation we had with Brandy.
Because one of the things that, my prison journals and things like that in our next spirituality episode, but there is a quote that I had written at one point in my journals, that I think is, for me, kind of the core essence of what shadow work is.
Which is, this is by Mark Epstein, it's, "Liberation isn't becoming free from yourself, it's becoming more yourself."
And, right? And have always tried to work from that perspective as I've kind of matured and recognized relationship patterns.
So for me, it usually comes from relationship patterns that I know are harmful for me, but I cannot stop doing them.
And, and wanting that to change, right? And saying, "I really, I can't keep abandoning myself in order to make this other person happy."
And so that's where most of my shadow work has come in, is, recognizing self-abandonment and trying to work backwards from there Yeah.
Yeah.
I love that.
I love that.
And I think a lot of times our work on ourselves, almost all the time I would say Is seen in relationship, right? Like, we don't, we don't actually see it unless we are in a relationship with, because we realize, like, "Oh, wait.
You know, maybe I shouldn't have responded that way," or, "Oh, wait.
Why did I respond that way? I don't feel that way towards this person.
Why did it come out Yeah.
that way?" Right? And what is, what is that kind of behavior? And wow, like, where did that come from? I know that that's, that's kind of the question that I've asked myself more times than I'd like to admit is, wow, where did that come from? Like, there's, there's some strong feelings there that I didn't realize, right? Was there, because, I mean, usually if we're by ourselves, we're good.
We're fine.
It's almost Yeah.
Typically not fighting with ourselves.
Well, not necessarily.
It's almost like shadow work is kind of like a reckoning of like, Mm-hmm.
"Okay, it's finally time to address this thing," right? "I am behaving in this way, and I need to take accountability for it."
The word accountability comes up for me a lot when we talk about shadow work and kind of like with these reflections of our outward behavior, and I think that's a really good way to think about it, right? Like, if I'm showing this outward reflection you know, I'm so easy to be relied on and I can do all of these things, and if you need something, Jaelene will show up for you, and, and like all of that, there is a back end to that that is a price that is being paid, And Mm-hmm.
how I think of shadow work is like what is the price of payment for having people think or believe I am a certain way, and is it something I'm willing to keep paying? Yes.
No, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I actually just reread one of my notes on my phone this morning when I was at the gym, and it is literally talking about everything we do, we're paying price, whether it's our time, whether it's our energy, whether it is, you know, whatever it is, there is a price kind of to all of those things.
And even when we're looking, you know, at, why am I playing small? Yeah Why am I not stepping into my power? Why am I dimming my light Mm-hmm.
all the time, right? Like, why are we not stepping into joy? What is making it so difficult for us when we had that conversation with, um...
Let me make sure that you actually guys have actually heard this.
For real.
Yes.
Why when we had that conversation with Jessica on, you know, childlike joy, did we talk about having to grow our capacity for joy, right? And to micro dose joy and to practice that and hold that feeling for a little bit longer.
Like, there is, there is a reason that our brains and our bodies are, are keeping us from accessing that, right? Because it does not feel safe in the moment.
And so when we're looking at doing this work, Why am I doing this? What's the price? What is it benefiting me, Yeah is another way to look at it, right? Like, what benefits do I get from this? Because we actually don't do anything in life if there's not a benefit to us 'cause our brain is like, "Th- there's no, there's literally no reason to do that."
And so we actually don't, whatever it is.
Even those things we don't wanna do, there is a benefit to us that we're doing.
And whether that is to keep us safe, whether that is to, you know, make others feel happy.
Because if we don't make others happy, then they may not love us, they may not like us, right? Like, there is a benefit to all of that, to...
We don't get to burn out, we don't get to compassion fatigue, we don't get to any of that, you know, people pleasing, all of those things- We do them because it, it benefits us in some way.
And so thinking of like, okay, what, what is that benefit? Not only, you know, what is that payment for it, like what is this gonna cost me in time? But what is that benefit? It helps us to identify what are those pieces that really honestly, they're trying to be seen, Yeah but we don't let them be seen because they're not acceptable in some way, right? They're not safe persona that we want people to have Right, because our true self and all of the aspects of ourself doesn't feel safe to show to others, right? Yeah.
So I love this work I think, you know, when I was in my addiction and I knew I was doing so many things that other people didn't know I was doing, right? Yeah That had real big consequences.
It was like that's where I really learned what it meant when people say, "You can only have as deep of a relationship with other people as you have with yourself," Like, your max capacity for love to others is capped out by how you feel about yourself, and I never really, like, understood that.
I was like, "That's dumb."
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
I realized that I knew...
I had, like, a double life, right? And I knew that there were things that I was doing that nobody else knew, and so when people would say to me, "I love you so much.
You're so important to me," my immediate thought was, "No, you don't.
You don't know anything about me.
You don't know this secret, and if you knew this secret, you would not love me anymore."
And what that really was was just, like, this deep sense of shame Mm-hmm.
and I hate myself and you cannot love me because there's no love available here, right? And, I think that that concept of you can only love others as much as you love yourself applies to so many different areas, right? Like, I can only hold other people accountable to the length that I'm willing to hold myself accountable.
And I think if people are wondering, like, should I be doing shadow work? What is it? Am I...
Is it worth it for me? I think those are the areas where you can find- The entry point, right? Hmm.
whatever it is, whether it's accountability or love or decision-making or whatever the action is that you feel some friction between what you're doing and what you want to be able to do, is the entry point to start doing some of this discovery and work Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, and I just, I keep going back to that quote that you, that you said of really just becoming more yourself yourself.
Like owning all of the pieces.
And I'm thinking too of, you know, when we categorize shadow work as spiritual work At least for me Having an intimate relationship with myself, me knowing all of the pieces and parts of myself, right? It is so deeply in our subconscious that we don't know what it is, and it really is like kind of excavating All of those parts that are, that are kind of identifying, like, what is keeping me from having a relationship with myself? What is keeping me from loving myself? What is keeping me from being okay with who I am? What is keeping me from showing that to others, right? Is because what am I not, what am I not seeing for myself? What am I unwilling to, own of myself in those pieces? Like, the amount of power that is...
And I know I just keep going back to it, but the amount of power that is actually in this work is everything.
Like, it really is the basis to connection, is.
right? Being able to connect outside of ourselves I cannot express this enough, if you are able to have capacity and space to examine and just acknowledge the parts of you that you don't like Yes Then you have more power over yourself than anyone can ever have over you, Mm-hmm.
make a very basic analogy, it's like in the movie Pitch Perfect where love that movie Amy...
Someone says, "Why do you call yourself Fat Amy?" She's like, "Because that way nobody else can."
Mm-hmm.
It's like taking this ownership of, I know me, Mm-hmm.
therefore there's nothing you can say about me that is harmful, because I already know it, and I will know immediately if what you're saying is true or not.
Just like we can convince our brains of anything, if you don't know yourself well, someone else can manipulate you into thinking anything, right? Mm-hmm.
so you need a guidepost.
I personally need very strong guideposts to be able to compare other people's opinions to, to see if it's true or not, because I Yeah manipulated.
have learned that about myself.
And so in order...
Because I don't ever wanna feel that way again, therefore, I must know myself well enough to know if what you're saying is true or not.
It's s- that's to me, when you say Yeah that's how I feel.
Yeah power comes from, is you can no longer say to me, "You are this or you are that," if it's not true.
And if it is Mm-hmm.
be like, "Yeah, I know.
It sucks, right? But here's what I'm gonna do instead."
And then nothing anyone else can say to you Yes.
Yes.
Absolutely.
And without judgment, right? Like owning it without judgment.
Yes, this is the pattern that I have.
Yes, this is how I typically respond in those patterns.
Yes, I am working on it literally just happened in my relationship yesterday.
Yeah having LASIK surgery tomorrow, so I have to drive, and he just got a new car, and I have an electric car and he has a gas car.
And I have been driving an electric car for long enough that when I drive non-electric cars, it's really hard for me.
I forget to turn them off.
I forget, how braking works because I don't have to use the brakes in my car.
And so I don't like to drive his car But he is the driver in our family, and he loves to drive.
And so typically if he, if we have to go somewhere, like an appointment, he'll drive there, and then I drive home.
And so I told him three days in adv- uh, actually two days in advance, I said, "Hey, we're not driving your car to your appointment tomorrow because I can't drive it home.
I'm not good at it and I feel very uncomfortable driving it."
And he was like, "I mean, you might change your mind.
It's a new car," 'cause he gets so excited about new cars.
He's like, "Don't you wanna drive my new car? Like, don't you want..."
And I was like, "No, I, I really don't.
I don't feel safe."
Yeah And so he brought something up like, "Well, we'll talk about it at the time."
And I said, "No.
Because I get to the moment, I will allow you to peer pressure me into driving your car.
Because in the moment I am unable to say no to you.
I know this Yeah And so I'm telling you today when I have the bandwidth and capacity to like justify and go back and forth in conversation, because I'll be peer pressured.
If we're walking out to the car and you get in your car, I won't say anything.
I'll get in your car."
'Cause that's, I Yeah about myself.
I am a Yeah.
when it comes to the Yeah and that's okay.
And so it is as Yeah as that.
And I know that sounds like really basic, but I That's huge to be able to say to someone, "I know that this is how I'm going to respond," when I say basic, I and hold it probably might to some people not sound like a big deal if I end up driving a car I don't want to, but what the understanding ought to be is that it's not that I'm driving a car I don't want to, it's how I will feel about myself because I didn't say what I wanted.
Yes, I could drive the car.
I'm not...
I'm...
I would Yeah.
out, but it's how Yeah about and my ability to speak up and say what I want is just as important as what anyone else wants.
So it really has nothing to do with the car Yeah.
No, it doesn't.
And I think, I love that think that's where we get things twisted.
If you're not into this or you don't understand this, it's easier to make the conversation about who cares which car you drive, right? Yeah And I think that's where this kind of work and these kinds of conversations get twisted.
We start arguing about the wrong thing, Mm-hmm.
what car I drive.
I'm a grown-up.
I can figure out how to drive a gas car, right? I've had my Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, Yeah.
Yeah that's where it's easy for people who are afraid of it or don't understand it or who have never heard of it to put a spin on it that is, that is not what it is Yes.
Yeah, no, absolutely.
Absolutely.
So, what are some ways, yes, they've been by accident, but what are some things, that you say to yourself or questions you may ask yourself? How, how have you put that, like, into practice, identifying those things? well, I am a very data-driven person.
And when I do shadow work, it is usually through the lens or the framework of the Enneagram.
So I'm an Enneagram girl.
And, I'm a 5 for anyone who is an Enneagram, fan, and I am a very, like, intellectual investigator type person.
And so for me, when I find myself, having things come up that I feel that pull, that internal pull of, "Is this me or is this my programming? Is this me or is this my programming?" Mm-hmm.
ask myself, "Is this true?" Right? So let's just use the example of, like, driving his car.
Like, in my Yeah get to the moment and I haven't expressed my wish and we're walking to the car, the reason I won't say anything out loud is because I don't want to upset him.
I know he likes to drive, and that takes priority, right, in my mind.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
I have to ask myself, "Is it true that his preference for driving is more important than my nervousness at driving," right? And, "Will he be mad at me?" And what evidence do I have? I always look for evidence.
What evidence do I have that if I say, "No, can we please take my car," he will be upset? Yeah I look at it from the, if I have time, right, which is why I have to have these Yeah way before they happen, is I, I think through the programming answer and what Mm-hmm.
the end result is, and I ask Mm-hmm.
I ask myself to gather evidence that that has happened in the past.
And very rarely is it actually true Right.
Right.
Yeah.
Is probably what I say to myself the most often.
Is this true? Yeah.
And I feel like I am like, truly sometimes like an archeologist as far as like...
I mean, I dig, you know, like deep in there.
Like, not only all of those to kind of identify it, but, but why? Like, why do I even care? Why is this even an issue, right? Like, what do I think is going to happen? What do I think is gonna happen? And how does that pertain to me? So, like, why do I have such strong feelings about this in the moment? Why do I worry that he's gonna be mad? People can be mad.
I just had this conversation...
Well, I have this conversation with my husband on the regular.
I can be mad.
I can be upset.
It's okay.
I love you.
W- we're f- we're fine.
I can have these emotions, right? He perpetually scares me in this house.
We've talked about it before.
We have a long house.
We have carpet that spans it.
He just pops up.
He spawns in the same room we are, and he tries so hard not to scare me, and he consistently scares me.
And I am one of those, "Aah," arms all up in the air, screamer.
at the gym the other day.
I screamed at someone at the gym the other My whole, my whole body is into this.
And I'm this morning, and he's like, "I tried so hard."
I said, "Stop trying so hard.
Just be you," because I think that you try so hard and it, like, in my brain means that there's something different 'cause it's not the same Mm-hmm.
that's happening.
And if I get scared, it's okay.
It's okay Yeah, I can handle it that you're scaring me.
I'm fine that you're scaring me, right? Like, you know, but what are those thing- what are- what's driving behind the scare? Like, why? My body is consistently in hypervigilance when it comes to other people being in my space.
No matter the amount of healing that I have done and the work that I do on myself and the work that I do of being present and being in the space and other things, if I am locked into something 'cause I was in the middle of working and, and typing something, and something inadvertently comes up into my space, it will scare me.
Okay.
I've had experiences in my life that is the reason why I'm this way, right? Why do I do things? 'Cause I don't want him, you know, mad or upset because I, I feel, right, those, that back kind of software and programming, the feelings behind that are, well, maybe he's not g- maybe he'll be mad at me.
He's not going to love me.
That means that I'm bad.
I should have done something that, you know, that made him happy because I have been taught that being a people pleaser is what keeps me safe.
And any time I come out of that people pleasing thing, my relationship with them is in danger for it, right? And so, like, not even, like, just identifying why do I do this in this moment and how can I stop? Yeah.
See what is that, what is that driving force behind those feelings? I...
'Cause then I can ask those questions, right? Like, okay, but is that true? that true? Is he gonna stop, is he gonna stop loving me? No.
What evidence do I have that he's gonna not stop loving me? Because I've pissed him off before, and he's not stopped loving me, right? And so it's okay.
I Yeah.
I have a really hard time with the why, and the reason is because I will use the, exploration of why to avoid the adjustment in the present moment.
Mm-hmm.
I get so, obsessed with, what happened, why? What happened? Why do I feel this way? What happened to me? What happened to me? What happened to me? That that is...
I will intellectualize the situation to the point that it is actually never resolved Yeah constantly in the intellectual process of why, and I lose the embodiment being able to discern, if I am actually feeling this way or not anymore, right? Like, Yeah, yeah to be really careful how far I take the why and, instead I have to kind of be in like, "I don't know why I feel this way right now, but I know that this is how I feel."
Mm-hmm.
therefore what is my response? What is my new response going to be? Yeah can kind of come back to the why, in journaling or in therapy or there's been times where I've messaged you and been like, "Okay, I am responding this way in these situations all of the time.
Can you help me?" Because I'm not very good at really identifying in a zoomed out way what's going on, because I wanna be so investigative.
And so The why is really, really hard for me.
Yeah, no, I think the why is just hard for everyone.
I don't think it's even just hard for you.
I have been doing this work literally for 20 years, and, you know, if I had to go step by step in this work of thinking of, like, what did it look like 20 years ago, was identifying, oh, you mean there's actually a pattern behind some of this? You mean there actually is a reason behind some of this? Okay.
Oh, I do that.
Oh, I didn't realize I did that.
Oh, I respond this way.
Oh, I didn't realize I respond this way.
Oh, I respond this way, like, every single time.
Huh, fascinating.
Okay, whatever.
Like it was...
You know, it goes from just even becoming aware of what those subconscious processes are.
I've been doing this work for 20 years, and we know that, and, I think I've talked about before that at the beginning of the year I don't do resolutions or goals or any of that kind of stuff.
But I pick a word and go for the intention, and the word that I picked for this year was power, taking back the word power and stepping into my power.
I have been doing this for 20 years, and I'm just now at that point, right? And yeah, now at this point of doing, of practicing for so long, and taking those, like, little steps, right? Like this, I think this work specifically, you really have to break it down.
Understand, one, there's a reason that your brain is doing this.
There's a, there's a reason our software is the way that it is.
There's a reason our responses are the way it is.
Behavior is just your body's way of communicating with you.
Your body does not communicate in words.
It has two modes of communication, which is behavior and pain.
It's the only way that it can communicate.
And so understanding, okay, this behavior is communicating something.
Okay.
And if that is all that you can do in this moment, just acknowledge that.
Just acknowledge that because then you're able to actually look in through your day and be like, "Okay, well, that behavior was just communicating something."
You don't even need to know what it was communicating, right? Just having that kind of awareness and working with it like piecemeal by piecemeal.
So normally, I don't have any notes on our podcasts.
43:28
Normally, I don't do any pre-work before coming into it.
I'm- we wing it every time Yeah, I'm kind of a fly by the seat of your pants kinda gal.
I'm not quite sure what's gonna come out of my mouth.
And actually, when we go back and edit, we're like, "Oh, wow, we said that? We're real smart."
smart that day.
"Well, that was a good one.
I'm gonna have to remember that for next time."
was just editing one of our episodes yesterday.
I wrote notes out of what we said.
I was like, "Oh yeah, that was good."
Yes.
don't even remember saying it.
I had a whole realization on joy just this week that actually I talked about in the podcast weeks ago, and I was like, "Okay, honestly brain, rude.
You could've remembered that," but I needed that, I needed that time.
So anyway, my notes that I wrote down were some of the questions we can ask ourselves while we're working on this.
So what is my behavior trying to tell me? Where does it come from? Can I identify some ways I can work on safely expressing them? Let's just use that example that you just used with Michael, right? You worked on some ways that you could safely express this, right? Like, it, it did not start with, "Oh, I identify this as my problem," and then you immediately had a conversation with Michael about it, 'cause life doesn't work that way, right? There's like, "Okay, so how can I have this conversation? These are the things that I need.
This is what feels safe in my body to do," right? What would happen if I did look into this? Are there feelings that come up just even identifying that we're going to do some shadow work? Because there is, right? There's gonna be resistance.
It can feel very scary, and that is completely and totally okay.
And actually, I'm gonna, like, say that's normal to feel scary.
Whenever we're trying to identify what do you mean, what is going on, why is this the way that it is, or how do I respond this way, that's challenging your brain's safety template.
The brain is like, "I'm doing this to keep you safe.
Don't challenge me."
'Cause we've already identified that this, this, this, this, this has happened and this is why we do this, because it's hardwired for survival and safety.
And so we're really challenging, what it truly, honestly feels like it's going to do, like it has to do in order to keep us safe.
Which it is not necessarily true, 'cause like we started the episode as, you know, our brain, it doesn't make a difference if it's real or perceived.
It's gonna take it as fact because it would rather be safe than sorry.
And so yes, it, we, we should feel uncomfortable, doing this.
And then, another one is, why am I reacting so strongly? And it can just be that question, right? Like, why? Why am I doing this? And then, I wrote down some of the reasons behind things, like some of the, kind of thoughts and feelings that activate, activate these pieces.
Feeling incapable.
Feel, being a failure or, or achieving at something, right? Which people are like, "Well, what do you mean? Like, you don't wanna achieve at something?" Um, no.
no Yeah, achieving at something is super vulnerable.
A lot of times you're, like, other people have seen it.
You're in the spotlight.
We all know, like, some of us don't wanna be seen.
Some of us want to, you know, be able to fade into the background and not ever have that kind of acknowledgement.
So achieving something can be very activating in a system.
Feeling unloved, feeling alone or not belonging.
Feeling like we have no influence in our current environment or our world, right? Not having any control.
Not appearing competent to others.
We all want to appear competent to others.
We all do.
And then feeling, others see you as unworthy or unuseful.
So s- those are just...
It's not all, it's not, like, an ex- inclusive list.
But they're really kind of examples of some of the reasons behind the behavior.
Like, right, like, why, why am I responding, this? You had, like, a visceral reaction to, for those of you who are not watching on YouTube, yep, backing backs up when the information gets too heavy.
the time.
All the time.
And I, there's only so far I can go.
There's like a door behind me, and I'm like, "Well, I guess that's a good fucking thing there's a door here, otherwise I would leave."
Talk about wanting to just kind of blend, she physically, for those of you who can't see us, she physically fades into the background.
Like, you can see her body just slowly, like, So, fade into the background is so funny 'cause I do the same thing in EMDR when it gets hard, and I go so far back in my chair, and my feet come up onto the chair, and I Yeah And I don't, often I don't know I'm doing it.
And, Yeah have to say to me, "Okay, can do this.
Let's look at your body right now."
And I'll look down and I'll be like, oh my God, I am like rolled into like a roly-poly fetal position.
I am a Yeah.
that has curled into a ball in a chair just, I just try and get a- I'm just lim- I gotta go.
I gotta go, right? Yeah very often when I'm doing that, like here on the podcast, I don't know I'm doing it until, I see Angie's face and then I know I'm doing something.
And then I have to kinda like come back to the moment and be like, "Oh yeah, you're trying to evacuate."
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah I hit the emergency release button.
I think it's because, I so strongly identify with some of those things you just said.
And what it was making me...
I was thinking about two different things.
One of which is I'm in the middle of like this work project and I'm supposed to be launching something, and not supposed to be, I am.
And, I've really struggled with the pricing of some of it, and you and I have argued about it.
then just yesterday I sent out a link to some friends to test it, Brandy, who you met in our previous episode, and, her wife Michelle were testing it for me, and I started arguing with them about the price.
I was arguing that I should lower the price and they were like...
And I said, I know Angie has told me not to," and they were like, "Do not.
Do not, do not, do not."
And you know, Brandy texted me back and she said, "I am so lucky that I get to talk to you for free," right? And I Oh, yeah I was just like right? I Yeah a couple things going on there.
First of all, when, when you're good at something, it feels easy.
It comes very naturally to you, right? And so it doesn't seem like it's a big deal.
It's just like, well, yeah, but can't everyone do this? Right? Because it Right so, and so then getting to a point where you're like asking someone to pay you to do it very hard- weird to me 'cause it's like, but it's so easy.
Why would you pay me that much to do it kind of thing.
But there's also just this real struggle with accomplishment Mm-hmm.
That's one of the pieces that I just have to consistently work on would be okay if like people saw you be really good at something Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I literally have to remind myself, routinely, Mm-hmm.
and by routinely I mean usually every day at least, of it is safe to be seen.
51:19
It is safe to be seen.
It is safe to be seen.
51:22
Was it safe in my previous life as, you know, and I mean this in this lifetime, but in previous, versions of it lifetimes? 'Cause it sure feels like I've lived multiple lifetimes in one.
But was it safe then? Maybe not, and honestly probably not.
51:45
But I'm not who I was then, right? It was like when I had, priced something, I had done a contract, and, Brandy and Michelle were like, "Um, no, that's not even remotely.
Like, you need to bump it up to this."
And my husband said, "Well, I think that's a fair price.
You're just starting out."
And I stopped and I said, "Oh, no, I am not just starting out."
I said, "This may be a new venture that we are in, but I am 51 years old.
I have been doing this work for decades, working with myself and other people.
I'm not new at this.
I am not just starting out."
learned from you telling me Yeah.
And I'm able to embody that because of being able to see it in others and realize where others are playing small, right? Like having those kind of examples.
And that's all this is.
You know, when, when we're talking about shadow work, it, it may sound scary, but, but that's all it is, is, is identifying, you know, what parts of me, and what, you know, pieces of me show up, how do they show up? Do they still work in my life? Or are these, or are these past things that are no longer needed? And, what are some ways that I can safely practice being in a new space? Because once I start practicing and get comfortable with that, then I'm able to identify kind of the next step, Yeah right? And, and be able to move into that, which is, I think a lot of times the literature and, you know, especially when we talk about trauma, it can feel very like, well, there's no point, right? Like, I've had this happen to me, and so I guess this is just how I am.
That's super disempowering.
Super disempowering.
And, and we train on trauma for a living, and that's a super disempowering message.
But saying like, yeah, these things happen and my body does it this way, and I can actually change that if it is causing harm, if it is causing, you know, me to feel terrible about myself, if it is causing- Yeah other people to feel terrible about myself.
I have the power to identify what that is and identify strategies and tools that I can change those things.
That's a super cool place to be.
And one thing I think is really important for, to point out is a lot of the, you know, the list that you were going through, when I tried to eject from the room it is inflicting something on your ego.
And Hmm.
looking at your ego, and your ego is not only what you think you are, but what you think you are not.
Mm-hmm.
But remembering that we are tribal people, and doing something that threatens your position in your tribe is, will activate your stress response, right? Because our old, old, old, old programming is if you get kicked out of the tribe, you die.
And Mm-hmm.
when you engage in shadow work, you are engaging in work that will change your relationship with your tribe, and it is ego threatening.
And it Mm-hmm.
critical you have a community, a tribe around you that can absorb that change.
Mm-hmm.
part of Yep that I'm able to go to my husband and say, "No, really, I'm not gonna drive your car, and we can't have this conversation when we leave," is because he can absorb that change.
He is a very healthy, safe relationship.
And the reason that I Mm-hmm.
into my text messages with you and Brandy and Michelle and, and Lauren, and these people that mean so much to me, is because it is very safe for me to say, behaving this way and I don't like it.
Can you help me?" Because you guys don't care if I change, Yeah.
You want that Yeah for your friends and for your community, Yeah safe to make adjustments within my tiny, tight circle.
And if you don't have that, this is probably not as accessible and far more scary.
And, and so we're very safe in our relationships, and that's why we can talk about this in such an open, honest way.
Yeah.
Yep, absolutely.
Oh, I've loved this conversation today.
I think the conversation of just what it can look like in different ways, right? And that there's not one specific way to do this work, because we're all different, right? And what works for one is not gonna work for all.
It is that same piece when we talk about regulation.
Doing this work, can be so empowering.
And so we really hope that if you feel like it's disempowering, right, if you- if you're looking at some of those pieces that maybe, maybe we can shift the way that we're, the way that we're looking at this work and, really look at it as just information.
Yeah It's just information.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I love this.
Any final words? No, I don't think so.
I mean, I have really appreciated being able to have you as, like, a person to bounce a lot of these things off of throughout my life.
I think it's important to recognize and have people hear that it is literally never too late to start this.
I really Mm-hmm.
I did have, like, mini moments of this throughout my whole life, I really didn't start truthfully being honest with myself Mm-hmm.
into prison, which is when I was, 44, 45 years old.
And, there are times where I look back and I think, "Oh, I've wasted so much time," but, but I'm often reminded that that is, A, not true, and B, I have so much time ahead of me, too.
And so it's really not too late to, look at your, your patterns and your behavior and your relationship patterns, and grow those into something that the goal is to just love yourself and feel comfortable in Yeah and not to become free from yourself, but to become more yourself Yeah.
Yeah.
I love that.
And our next episode is going to be, parenting through crisis, but our next spirituality episode, is gonna kind of look more into Having spirituality when things go wrong and also keeping up a spiritual life when things are going right, which a lot of times it's, a lot of times it's, it's easy to, easy to kinda drop those things.
So thank you for joining us and, I really look forward to what this looks like in our next conversation.
All right, bye.
Thank you for joining us today.
I hope you've enjoyed this conversation.
Next week we will be back and we will have another parenting episode where we will be having a guest, and we will be discussing parenting through crisis.
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