Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Strictly Come Hamster - Season 2a (featuring Eddie Arnold, Toby Hadoke, Jon Arnold & Jack Coyer)

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Strictly Come Hamster - Season 2a (featuring Eddie Arnold, Toby Hadoke, Jon Arnold & Jack Coyer) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:01
  You know what this is, child, don't you?
• 0:03
  Plans. Yes, she's a Nero maiden
• 0:07
  rebuilding Rome. Let me see, where are we now?
• 0:11
  64 AD July. Yes, of course, he sets fire to
• 0:17
  Rome. I know about that.
• 0:20
  Doctor. Yes, he must.
• 0:22
  He expect his plan will be ready at any time now.
• 0:27
  Maximus, must you hiss my name from all corners.
• 0:33
  I'm sorry, but I have news. Yes, Nero has arranged for you
• 0:37
  to play in the arena. Oh, has he now?
• 0:39
  Well, I must have misjudged the fellow.
• 0:43
  And as you play, the lands will be released.
• 0:46
  Oh. That will be charming.
• 0:48
  Well, obviously you must leave here before this concert.
• 0:52
  Obviously. So if you still intend to carry
• 0:55
  on with your plan, today is your last chance to kill Nero.
• 0:59
  Yes, yes, kill Nero. I beg your pardon?
• 1:38
  Hello everybody, and welcome back to Hamster, the Blunt Pen
• 1:41
  Knife Doc 2 Commentary podcast. Or rather for this first half of
• 1:46
  our final season, we can be a monotre with a broken wing.
• 1:52
  Today we are taking a look at the first half of season 2.
• 1:56
  Yes, this season that features two stories with Caroline Ford
• 2:00
  in it, an orphaned child, and William Hartnell as the doctor
• 2:03
  at one point. So no.
• 2:06
  So no, I came very appropriately dressed for the wrong season 2
• 2:10
  with William Hartnell, Carolyn Ford and an orphan child in it.
• 2:13
  Well done. I came in my story in the engine
• 2:15
  top, so Oh well. Maybe another day I can go back
• 2:21
  and get the right season 2 done later on.
• 2:25
  It's a real story in the engine top.
• 2:27
  Yeah. Ah, it's gorgeous.
• 2:28
  I should really like that. So well, I suppose I have to
• 2:33
  introduce everyone most amount was mentioning, but Oh well,
• 2:37
  you. Bitch.
• 2:39
  So, so but so, first of all, I will I will present our host to
• 2:46
  people who've heard blabbering on for so long that they would
• 2:48
  rather hear the zombie blabber on 25 minutes straight for 12
• 2:50
  more episodes, Mr. Joe Ford. Yes, hello there.
• 2:54
  Yeah, well, I'll just pipe in the zombie wrap.
• 3:06
  But I did for a previous episode of The Hamster a blood pen knife
• 3:10
  instead of me talking. Hello, I'm delighted to be here
• 3:13
  on my own podcast. Mr. John Arnold.
• 3:18
  Just remember at Christmas is around the corner is do you want
• 3:21
  anything? Yes, I want you out to have.
• 3:26
  Can't really think of anything funny off Tom Hicks.
• 3:28
  I don't know him, but I'll introduce him anyway.
• 3:29
  Mister Jack, call you. It's all right.
• 3:32
  I can't think it could be anything funny either, so you
• 3:35
  know. Hello, I'm pleased to be here.
• 3:40
  Long time listener, second time caller.
• 3:45
  I broke the window and picked the lock after being a blackmail
• 3:51
  bulbs or daring to say that the Green Death was actually better
• 3:57
  than carnivore monsters in the season 10 absolutely come
• 4:01
  hamster episodes and a certain Mr. T Haydock threatened to burn
• 4:09
  some of the film cams that he has hidden in his attic.
• 4:12
  And you know, Ford didn't ban me from this series, but I heard
• 4:18
  that there was one more year coming up, season 2.
• 4:21
  So I hijacked the connection and I'm back and I'm willing to be a
• 4:29
  party to this conspiracy. Conspiracy, of course, being the
• 4:33
  name of one of the episodes of one of the stories in this year.
• 4:38
  He looks very busy. Working on cutting off your
• 4:39
  connection right now. He is film cards.
• 4:44
  Did you say Where's this rumour come from?
• 4:47
  Well, you know, this is Doctor Who fandom.
• 4:50
  We're allowed to just start whatever this we want nowadays
• 4:53
  and people just all have to listen to them.
• 4:56
  I mean people, people believe in AI.
• 4:58
  Generated image of Billy Piper from 2005 with Paul Mcgahn.
• 5:02
  I did send that picture to Toby and say, Oh my God.
• 5:06
  So I am, you know, as gullible as everybody else.
• 5:10
  Idiot. Yeah, and then our last person,
• 5:13
  who is of absolutely no notability at all, nobody's ever
• 5:17
  heard of him. He's first time Comer Mr. Toby
• 5:20
  Haddock. Hello.
• 5:23
  I think you may have to use more diplomacy if you want to get
• 5:26
  anything out of me. Good evening.
• 5:29
  I I will just say for the record, because I know it was a
• 5:32
  word spoken in jest, but such things do not are not
• 5:35
  necessarily valuable currency in the world of Doctor Who fandom.
• 5:38
  If I had film cans up in my attic, I would be watching those
• 5:41
  and not doing this much as it's nice to see everybody.
• 5:45
  But hello. I'm so sorry.
• 5:48
  I mean, you've been insulted, your name has been slurred, your
• 5:51
  opinions on previous episodes of I'm.
• 5:53
  I'm so sorry you've come into this deluge of criticism at the
• 5:57
  start of the episode there. Well, I mean, that's alright.
• 6:00
  I was going to say thank you for such a lovely introduction.
• 6:02
  I didn't, I didn't get one, but it's it's alright.
• 6:05
  I'm I'm the regular MC of a of a of a, you know, very busy and
• 6:12
  long standing stand up comedy club, so I know I'll judged
• 6:15
  attempts at humour when I encounter.
• 6:19
  And you only remain known for Doctor Who for the years to
• 6:21
  come. Hey, hey.
• 6:24
  Quite massive, maybe? Yeah, well I'm currently writing
• 6:27
  my end of year tribute show for Radio Four Extra, which is which
• 6:31
  is a heartfelt a set of obituaries for people who have
• 6:37
  made contributions to sci-fi and genre television and film, which
• 6:42
  will be going out between Christmas and New Year on BBC
• 6:46
  Radio 4 Extra. As a side though, right when I
• 6:49
  watch those, you know, it's sort of people get discussed for a
• 6:54
  couple of days, don't they? And then something else happens,
• 6:57
  or when somebody else. And it's only when those
• 7:00
  compilations are together, you just realize how many people you
• 7:04
  lose in a year. And it is.
• 7:06
  Well, and I also think in in my lifetime, places like BAFTA at
• 7:12
  their end of, you know, in their, in their, in memorial
• 7:14
  videos that they do in their shows, they've got shorter, they
• 7:17
  now have people doing a number in front of them.
• 7:20
  They quite often don't feature people and and that seem to be
• 7:25
  put together by people who think having somebody who's been in
• 7:28
  American TV show that was never shown terrestrial over here like
• 7:31
  The Wire is more important than having somebody like Clifford
• 7:34
  Rose, who was on British television screens for over 30
• 7:36
  years, including in a program like Secret Army that was top of
• 7:39
  the ratings. And no disrespect to those
• 7:41
  American actors, they will get remembered by the American
• 7:44
  Academy and rightly so. So that our own Academy
• 7:46
  overlooks such people means that it falls to, you know, people
• 7:50
  like me, sadly, in my little backwater of, of, of the
• 7:54
  airwaves to, to redress the balance, which is a shame.
• 7:57
  I mean, I'm glad I get to do it, but I think it's a shame that I
• 8:01
  have to. So there there's a serious note.
• 8:04
  Who? Do we have to who?
• 8:06
  Do we have to bump up to get Toby to do the batter?
• 8:08
  Obituaries, come on. I'm Eddie Arnold.
• 8:11
  I'm the son of the most deluded lunatic on this podcast.
• 8:14
  Fair. That's fair.
• 8:16
  I thought Jeremy Day. Yes, I.
• 8:22
  Am I mean? Well, Toby doesn't think I am.
• 8:26
  I mean, it's all an act. Now listen, we've managed to get
• 8:29
  this far into the episode and we don't even know what the hell
• 8:31
  we're talking about today. What are we talking about?
• 8:35
  So yes, so we're talking about a season that has William Hart and
• 8:40
  All in all five stories that we're covering, that has
• 8:44
  Caroline Ford in two stories and that has an orphan child appear
• 8:49
  later on. We are doing season 2 a from
• 8:52
  planet of giants, dark invasion of Earth, the rescue the Romans
• 8:56
  and the wet planet. Or IE slim pickings according to
• 9:01
  one of us. Should we get this thing kicked
• 9:03
  off then? Let's do it.
• 9:06
  Since someone has very slim pickings, I'll make them take
• 9:09
  their slim picks first. Mr. Haydock, what's your slim
• 9:12
  picking? I think I will choose to
• 9:16
  celebrate and keep something that is is not remotely slim,
• 9:23
  but is a bounteous. So it's it's overweight with the
• 9:29
  treasures and gorgeousness. And that is something that I
• 9:33
  wouldn't want all Doctor Who to be like all the time.
• 9:36
  But the beauty of Doctor Who is it is a rich mosaic and certain
• 9:40
  things can shine just because of what they are, irrespective of
• 9:44
  what's around them and the jobs that those have to do.
• 9:46
  So I'm choosing Doctor Who's I think first attempted all out
• 9:50
  comedy as it as it's as it's referred to, although I'm sure
• 9:54
  as we talk about it, there's a lot of it.
• 9:55
  There's not remotely funny, nor is it supposed to be, but it's
• 9:58
  got it's got probably the most consistently sort of deliberate
• 10:06
  comedic tone over and above just the odd comic character or
• 10:11
  subplot. And that is the Romans, which
• 10:14
  has this lovely conceit of being somewhat farcical in that Ian
• 10:19
  and Barbara's adventures are go on unbeknownst to the doctor and
• 10:23
  Vicky, even though they sometimes almost bump into each
• 10:27
  other. I think it is tonally slight,
• 10:29
  slightly Askew in that the, the the the non comedic stuff is is
• 10:37
  is is is attempting to be pretty grim.
• 10:40
  But I but it would be, but actually, as I'm talking myself
• 10:43
  out of that, because actually I don't want, I wouldn't want it
• 10:45
  to all be as as funny as Nero. And Nero is great.
• 10:49
  Nero is Derrick Francis, who gives a fantastic performance.
• 10:52
  We even get that very difficult thing to pull off, which is my
• 10:55
  favorite part of the whole thing, which actually goes
• 10:58
  against my usual grain because I like it when individual deaths
• 11:01
  are given weight and we are given emotion by being
• 11:04
  introduced to characters that we like.
• 11:05
  And then, you know, feeling that even the small, most supposedly
• 11:08
  unimportant person's life is extinguished.
• 11:11
  It is a tragedy. We get a comedy death, in which
• 11:14
  the cupbearer Tigelinus, played by Brian Proudfoot, who was the
• 11:18
  the double for William Hartnell in the Reign of Terror.
• 11:20
  So he has a he has a claim to fame walking through those
• 11:24
  Poplar trees, so it's nice that we get to see him on screen.
• 11:27
  But I think his death is absolutely hilarious as he
• 11:30
  spends the whole thing being really annoying and then Nero
• 11:33
  deliberately makes him drink and die.
• 11:36
  But such is the grammar of the piece that you accept it for
• 11:40
  what it is. It it's knowingly glib and, and
• 11:45
  cruel in a way that you you would find unforgivable in other
• 11:49
  circumstances. But really successful Doctor Who
• 11:51
  stories create a world of their own in which the things that the
• 11:56
  writer and performers and director want to happen are
• 11:59
  allowed to happen in a way that is unique or, or, or, or at
• 12:03
  least, you know, dictated to by that story.
• 12:07
  And so I like the Romans because, you know, a lot of 60s
• 12:10
  stuff can be quite, you know, we need to indulge it slightly,
• 12:15
  certainly in terms of pacing through a through a modern lens.
• 12:18
  But actually the Romans, the Romans gallops along.
• 12:21
  It's got it's plenty of fun. It it it, it production wise, I
• 12:25
  think it's it's it, you know, it's, it's pretty good.
• 12:28
  All except for the gladiatorial arena, which is so sand in front
• 12:33
  of a stage. But hey ho.
• 12:35
  But it's, you know, Hartnell is so good at comedy.
• 12:40
  I think I love Ian and Barbara being slightly tipsy and
• 12:44
  slightly post coital in in in their Roman villa.
• 12:47
  I love the fact that after the TARDIS has fallen off the Cliff,
• 12:51
  we get the impression they've been hanging around for a bit
• 12:53
  just being in Rome doing as the Romans do I, I think that's
• 12:56
  rather joyous and rather fun. Hartnell getting to play his
• 12:59
  invisible emperor's new harp. You know, all of that is great.
• 13:02
  Hartnell has a a wild old time and I think it's now it's a lie
• 13:09
  that it's it's it's the first flourishing of of of comedy and
• 13:14
  Doctor Who. Kaspoon has done it before with
• 13:15
  the jailer in the reign of terror, but also and the and the
• 13:18
  road works overseer, but actually also in Marco Polo.
• 13:21
  There is the hilarious and Velikamp Wang Lo who who is a
• 13:25
  who is a joy. That's a sort of Wang Low and
• 13:29
  Sweet Chariot, but it's. Gaius Carrots are a doctor.
• 13:33
  He really is. He's, he's a delight.
• 13:36
  And, and Kublai Khan, of course is, is very funny in, in, in
• 13:40
  Marco Polo. But the, the humor is a vital
• 13:42
  part of Doctor Who. And I, I mean, I always loved
• 13:46
  Doctor Who as a kid and, and, and found the funny bits funny,
• 13:48
  but I always wanted it to be dark and gritty and
• 13:51
  uncompromising because I was a kid and I wanted stuff to be
• 13:54
  adult. But actually the, the reason
• 13:56
  Doctor Who, I think perseveres and is successful with us as why
• 14:00
  I'm a 50 year old man still talking about it is because that
• 14:05
  sense of humor is, is so vital to it.
• 14:07
  Because if it were PO faced and there's so much sci-fi coming
• 14:10
  out of telly now that is so it's really well made, full of good
• 14:15
  ideas, but by God, it takes itself seriously.
• 14:18
  Now. I don't like stuff that is too
• 14:20
  knowing and undermines itself. It says, Oh, you have to take
• 14:23
  the piss out of this in order to like it because you don't don't.
• 14:25
  It's that balance. And Doctor Who at its best gets
• 14:28
  that balance, right. Well, actually maybe this one is
• 14:30
  slightly over balanced in the humorous states, but it's the
• 14:35
  early days of the show and it's the show finding out what it can
• 14:38
  do. And I think without its sense of
• 14:39
  humor, Doctor Who would have died.
• 14:42
  And I think it's just as important an element of the show
• 14:46
  as horror and sci-fi and Jeopardy and all of those things
• 14:50
  that we love about it. And what's beautiful is that
• 14:53
  often it's regular and its guests actually rise to the
• 14:57
  challenge of go, oh, we can have a bit of fun this week and it's
• 15:00
  always a joy to see if they know how to do it properly.
• 15:03
  And because comedy, as we've already discovered this evening,
• 15:05
  is quite difficult to judge in terms of, in terms of how you
• 15:10
  mix it up and how you address it and indeed to whom you address
• 15:13
  it. So I, I think I and I think they
• 15:17
  judge it very nicely and it's very different from everything
• 15:21
  that surrounds it. And it's a pretty good
• 15:23
  production. I know Christopher Barry was,
• 15:25
  was cross about the burning of Rome, which he didn't think he
• 15:27
  pulled off very well. I think.
• 15:28
  I think he has. And all the regulars get plenty
• 15:34
  to do. And so for those reasons, I was
• 15:37
  supposed to choose three, aren't I?
• 15:38
  And I've just given you a meander.
• 15:41
  I'm going. So to choose.
• 15:42
  Just put add a 1-2 and a three any way you like it, post
• 15:45
  production. And that's why I would like to
• 15:48
  choose the Romans, please. Thank you very much indeed.
• 15:50
  Well, do you know what you said about the regulars there?
• 15:52
  One thing that always surprises me about the Romans is the pace
• 15:55
  of it because there are so many plot lines in this story.
• 16:00
  And you cut to Ian on the boat, you cut to the dockside in the
• 16:03
  palace, you cut to Barbara and the poor old slave woman in the
• 16:08
  jail. And it's just like cut, cut, cut
• 16:10
  from one plot to another. It's an unusually fast-paced 60s
• 16:14
  Doctor Who story because there's so much going on and sort of
• 16:18
  balanced with all of that wonderful.
• 16:20
  And I mean this entirely positively.
• 16:22
  Sitcom dialogue in this Spooner came in and brings a wealth of
• 16:27
  comedy charm to Doctor Who. And I just think it's absolutely
• 16:31
  gold. Has the Doctor, has he ever been
• 16:36
  as delightful as when he's sparring with Nero in this story
• 16:40
  or when he's meddling with history?
• 16:41
  I mean, what a hypocrite. At the end, where he's going.
• 16:44
  You can't blame me for all this. And the second she's out of
• 16:47
  sight, he's chuckling his head. I mean, the rules are changing
• 16:52
  very quickly, aren't they? We go from You Can't change
• 16:55
  History 1 not one line last season to oh, I'm responsible
• 17:00
  for this. How amusing this season to Oh
• 17:04
  yes, there's the Troy. Yes, a catapult.
• 17:07
  Actually, just think about making a big horse.
• 17:09
  Yeah. And then next time he goes back
• 17:11
  to Rome, he's again. You can't change history.
• 17:13
  And then his companion convinced him to change history.
• 17:16
  But he's having a whale of a time, Hartnell juggling intrigue
• 17:20
  and mayhem. I love, don't you love his mock
• 17:24
  hurt at Ian and Barbara in episode 1.
• 17:27
  It's like I know what you're insinuating.
• 17:30
  Afraid to let me out of your sight, eh?
• 17:31
  Want to be my nurse maid? And then to Vicky, sort of.
• 17:34
  The aside is, come on, child, let's go, come on, let's get a
• 17:37
  bit quick. He's like a naughty little
• 17:39
  schoolboy, The doctor and Nero, like a pair of bachelors
• 17:44
  chilling out in the steam room. I mean, it's just delightful.
• 17:47
  This. I like the presentation of
• 17:51
  comedy and horror next to each other as well.
• 17:53
  It's a very, very funny story, but it remembers to put some
• 17:58
  historical interest in as well. So you've got the slave trading
• 18:01
  in there, women being lusted after at the slave auction, the
• 18:05
  torture in the galley, the very nasty business of being thrown
• 18:10
  into that very tiny arena to fight for your life for the
• 18:13
  amusement of the crowds and all the unpleasantness with the
• 18:16
  poisons as well. So there is a reminder this was
• 18:18
  a pretty dangerous period of history.
• 18:21
  Whilst we're having a lot of larks, Derek Francis, I'm doing
• 18:24
  a YouTube. I'm just listening tons of
• 18:26
  things. A fat, rude, horny, belching,
• 18:30
  talentless Nero. Isn't he perfect?
• 18:33
  If you've got to have a role like this that's written as
• 18:36
  operatically as this, you've just got to go for it, right?
• 18:39
  You cannot be subtle in any way. And boy does he go for it.
• 18:43
  But I would put this through for the single funniest moment, I
• 18:46
  think in Doctor Who. It makes me roar with laughter
• 18:49
  and it's all performance, even though the line is funny and
• 18:53
  it's that wonderful bit where Hardell was just chatting away
• 18:57
  and then just goes kill Nero. I beg your pardon?
• 19:02
  It just makes me howl with laughter every time I hear it.
• 19:06
  I think the Romans is glorious. I think I had a conversation
• 19:09
  with James Lark recently and he's not as keen on this because
• 19:12
  he likes very early comedy films, you know, the silent
• 19:17
  films where they had a lot of time and a lot of money to get
• 19:19
  the comedy right. And this is rushed.
• 19:22
  It's rushed comedy and sometimes you can see it on the screen,
• 19:26
  but it's Doctor Who just going through my balls to the walls
• 19:29
  into into this sort of mad carry on larks.
• 19:33
  And I can understand why people didn't take to it at the time,
• 19:36
  but it's a story that always amuses me.
• 19:39
  I would like to put the Romans through as well, please.
• 19:42
  That's two folks for the Romans to go through.
• 19:45
  Would anyone like to volunteer themselves to go next?
• 19:49
  Go on, Jack, you can have a decisive vote on it.
• 19:52
  Well, yeah, I'm going to be a bit boring, let's say at the
• 19:57
  moment. One of the most celebrated
• 19:59
  doctor's stories of all time. It is very good.
• 20:02
  And I'm going to be the person who drags it over the line.
• 20:07
  Yeah, this, it was probably one of the earliest stories I saw.
• 20:11
  I I when I first decided that I wanted to be a.
• 20:17
  You know, Doctor Who fan is in fan of the whole franchise.
• 20:22
  Rather than obviously just starting a classic series, which
• 20:25
  I did because my age. I wanted to try and watch a lot
• 20:32
  of the show in in chronic Lacaudi because I thought, well,
• 20:36
  if it's all very old television, I want to try and give it every
• 20:42
  story could benefit the doubt rather than just reaping him to
• 20:46
  the celebrated, you know, Genesis, then a shock, then
• 20:51
  this, then that and the other. And I thought the only way I can
• 20:54
  do that is by trying to watch as many of them in order as I can,
• 20:59
  because that's the way you get the most context to the every
• 21:03
  story. And so I think like you say,
• 21:07
  these having this a story that is quite predominantly focused
• 21:12
  on comedy and and one of the earlier ones that is quite
• 21:15
  predominantly focused on comedy makes for a really nice change
• 21:20
  of pace. If you're someone like me who's
• 21:24
  tried to do a lot of the things in order, I think a lot of that
• 21:29
  is down to Christopher Bowie, who I think is a director who
• 21:33
  probably didn't get a lot of, he's not as celebrated as, you
• 21:37
  know, AW, Camfield or whatever. But I think going down on the
• 21:41
  list of his credits, you know, I think even stuff like creature
• 21:45
  from the pit for the atmospheric probably powered the dynamics
• 21:48
  from what we can see. The early episodes of the Daleks
• 21:53
  where they're, you know, going through the jungle forest, some
• 21:56
  of the most iconic images in Doctor Who history.
• 22:00
  They've given us stuff like the Damons and I think a lot of the
• 22:06
  comedic potential in this story is is really brought out quite
• 22:10
  honestly by Christopher Bowie. And there's a moment I love,
• 22:14
  which is I think clear Method 3, where Tiger Imus is trying to
• 22:20
  put the clown of the reef on the mirror's head.
• 22:26
  And as mirror and Pop Ayo are having her to do.
• 22:30
  And he's, you know, sneaking up in the background and trying to
• 22:34
  put the wreath on his head, but not quite getting there, even
• 22:38
  though you see a boom mic in the shop.
• 22:39
  But who cares? It's all on television.
• 22:43
  But I just think that's a really nice comedian touch.
• 22:47
  And I think, but you said I think it was Toby.
• 22:51
  You said the moment of meal of burning Rome at the end, sort of
• 22:56
  almost a precursor to what we get in the massacre a year or so
• 23:01
  later. I think balancing these tones is
• 23:04
  is something that Christopher Barry does really well in this
• 23:07
  story. Like we've all mentioned Doctor
• 23:10
  William Hart nor the governor. This is absolutely up, up his
• 23:16
  element and he sort of gets mails every, every moving line,
• 23:22
  every moment of glorified chest, you know, puffing and Oh yes,
• 23:28
  the, the emperor's new clothes. I told that to Hans Christian
• 23:33
  Andersen. I gave him that idea.
• 23:37
  I think the moment at the end where they all reunite.
• 23:42
  And there he goes. Well, you know, you, you 2 have
• 23:44
  been raising around here and a nice little holiday and we've
• 23:48
  been dealing with Emperor Nero, you know, well, when he's
• 23:53
  fighting me assassin. And so that's a 2.
• 23:57
  You know, it's so rare, but I've got a worthy opponent.
• 24:00
  You know, I don't appreciate the final art of 50 cups moments
• 24:07
  where he's almost, you know, going beyond the and he's like
• 24:12
  full on cackling like fizzle Ramirez, Joker from the 1960s
• 24:19
  and West Batman. I just think he's such a great
• 24:24
  believer of the show at this point.
• 24:27
  And obviously marshalling along Vicky or because obviously it's
• 24:30
  her first time in the in the TARDIS crew properly as well.
• 24:36
  And I think there's no better character.
• 24:39
  I think there's no better doctor for ushering in new companions
• 24:45
  and showing them this new way of life than the first Doctor.
• 24:48
  I really like that aspect of this character is a great
• 24:52
  custodian, both you know, of the characters and in the sort of
• 24:57
  meta sense of the of the programme.
• 25:02
  I'm sure even there who can play better than that.
• 25:13
  The answer is, of course, is not to be caught playing it.
• 25:44
  None. What happened, young lady?
• 25:57
  Why did you have to come in and interrupt just as I got him all
• 26:01
  softened up and ready for the old one, too?
• 26:04
  You're all right, all right. Of course I'm all right, my
• 26:06
  child. You know, I am so constantly
• 26:10
  outwitting the opposition, I tend to forget the delights and
• 26:14
  satisfaction of the arts, the gentle art of fisticas.
• 26:18
  I realize you're a man of many talents, Dr. but I didn't know
• 26:21
  fighting with my. Dear, I am one of the best.
• 26:24
  Do you know it was I that used to teach the mountain mauler of
• 26:28
  Montana? Do you remember?
• 26:30
  Have you never heard? No.
• 26:33
  Of course. No.
• 26:34
  No course. You have to.
• 26:35
  Have you? No.
• 26:37
  Well, never mind. I think after all that wonderful
• 26:40
  exercise, I should be able to get a very pleasant night's
• 26:43
  sleep. Yeah, I really like a lot of the
• 26:47
  production design and all the sets, the marketplace, me and
• 26:51
  those Palace, the what they can do with the Claratorial arena.
• 26:57
  I think they can just about get away with it.
• 27:00
  But there's a couple of nice shops and there's a really nice
• 27:03
  shot in part four of them looking up at Jacqueline Hill.
• 27:07
  She's as Barbara sort of looking down on them.
• 27:11
  Yeah. I well, yeah, I'm going to
• 27:15
  really emphatically put this through.
• 27:17
  It's possibly my favorite part. No, I'm not sure.
• 27:22
  You know, Telesmap, some things I, I sometimes find them a
• 27:27
  little bit difficult to engage with no matter how hard I try.
• 27:31
  So, you know, the fact that this exists in its entirety, and in
• 27:35
  fact, you know, a lot of this year existing in its entirety
• 27:41
  is, is quite pleasing to me, as is all of us.
• 27:46
  And I just think this absolutely nails the tone.
• 27:51
  And yeah, but I mean, David Francis is wonderful.
• 27:56
  And it surprised me actually, going back to this, that I
• 27:59
  almost forget that he's not even in Part 1 and he's barely in
• 28:03
  Part 2. And I'll go, oh, you forget how
• 28:07
  concentrated that is. And one thing that I also remark
• 28:12
  about Nero that I often see critiqued a lot is obviously the
• 28:17
  scenes of him with with Barbara going through the Paris, you
• 28:23
  know, you going into classic Doctor Who, you hear about a lot
• 28:28
  of moments of the, you know, oh, they would never do this today
• 28:34
  sort of thing. And we actually, we get the, you
• 28:38
  know, race changing and you know, the snowmen or obviously
• 28:44
  stuff like Talons, the Crusade and then stuff like and
• 28:48
  Premiera. And I think maybe perhaps
• 28:51
  there's a difficulty sometimes with media literacy in terms of
• 28:57
  the differentiating between the representation of something and
• 29:04
  the endorsement of something, which are sometimes find myself
• 29:08
  guilty of that as well. But I have never personally seen
• 29:13
  an issue with the Nero and Barbara stuff.
• 29:18
  I think we are firmly on Barbara's side and we're firmly
• 29:24
  anti meero. And I don't think that the
• 29:26
  programme is endorsing what Meera's doing in any way.
• 29:31
  And it is in fact trying to, you know, over like it deliberately
• 29:39
  just to force quite how terrible the figure mirror is, which
• 29:43
  obviously turns from the comic to the homicidal as as we go a
• 29:49
  lot through the story. If anything, I find it a little
• 29:52
  bit more problematic that the doctor sees mirror chasing a
• 29:56
  young woman and goes we're a funny fellow, that guy.
• 30:02
  If anything, that's the more possibly it's not an element.
• 30:06
  But yeah, I, I think in a moment like that, which really, like
• 30:11
  you say, like I say, is going to be dependent on the
• 30:15
  performances, the direction, the timing.
• 30:18
  I think cast and crew, Crystal, Barry, Bill and Francis and the
• 30:23
  ensemble are absolutely holding it, running with it.
• 30:29
  And they know how to put the show together.
• 30:32
  And yeah, I I love the moment. It's going firm.
• 30:37
  Yay. Nicely put, 30.
• 30:43
  So that's our first story, officially confirmed is through
• 30:46
  to Round 2 of this half. Do we want to hear from my
• 30:51
  idiotic father first, or do we want to hear from?
• 30:53
  Yes, nice to hear from him. OK, so sorry, you're probably
• 30:59
  not going to hear anything more than a load of rubbish anyway.
• 31:02
  Now, because it's the moment you're if you're Dick Peter.
• 31:07
  Well done at. The moment.
• 31:09
  Ed. I've got everything.
• 31:11
  I've got everything about Latin. In the word, in the words of
• 31:14
  Nero, you're all right, but you're not that good.
• 31:17
  Well, funnily enough, I adore them.
• 31:22
  It is, you know, this is the season 2 is where the show
• 31:26
  really opens up. It's largely been studio bag.
• 31:29
  There have been moments of humour, as Tony said.
• 31:31
  This is where it expands that path.
• 31:33
  It's what Dennis Spooner brings to the show.
• 31:35
  They've got that confidence, the success of that first season and
• 31:39
  they are willing to try absolutely everything.
• 31:41
  It doesn't always come up and we can see that right through this
• 31:43
  season, but this is where it really works.
• 31:48
  But absolutely all the reasons everyone said Nero as well.
• 31:53
  I think Derek Francis, the way he can turn on a dime is
• 31:57
  beautiful here. It's you know, he goes from that
• 32:00
  guy. He delivers the punch, dies.
• 32:02
  You know when Hartnell's giving him that liar.
• 32:04
  It's, you know, the whispers. He's all right, but he's not
• 32:08
  that good. Loved it.
• 32:10
  I say the Tigelinus. He was right.
• 32:14
  Love it. I think well, we have met you.
• 32:18
  I think it's one of the great one episode Doctor Who
• 32:20
  characters, Lacusta or Lacusta she is, but she you know, it's
• 32:25
  perfect in this this kind of operatically violent fast world.
• 32:30
  She's just all business. It's just it's just like a job
• 32:33
  to her. Spoon has got it absolutely
• 32:35
  right. It's just that kind of straight
• 32:36
  comedy. It's beautifully played.
• 32:38
  She's played by the Seeker, don't you know?
• 32:40
  Is. That.
• 32:42
  The seeker. Yeah.
• 32:44
  Oh yeah, of course it is. She's even better in the book.
• 32:47
  You know, Cotton gives her a great line to Vicki.
• 32:50
  You know, you want to come into this business.
• 32:51
  It's a growth industry, you know, poisoning.
• 32:54
  It's so funny. Does it say who needs friends
• 32:56
  when you've got an enema? God, those books are good.
• 33:03
  But I don't think she might be mentioning so well.
• 33:05
  But Jackie Hill throughout this the reaction shot she is giving
• 33:10
  all through this just makes the company the way she is caning
• 33:14
  the wine right throughout all of this in reaction to what's going
• 33:18
  on is gorgeous. The exasperation she oh, it's
• 33:22
  it's just a master class in reaction shot in in how to be
• 33:26
  generous with the comedy. I absolutely thought, as we
• 33:30
  said, Hartnell absolutely gorgeous performance here.
• 33:33
  You know how kind indifferent he is to violence all the way
• 33:36
  through, Jack said. The gentle art of pistocamps,
• 33:39
  training the mountain mauler of Montano.
• 33:42
  Swords are dangerous, you know, and, and the moment where he
• 33:47
  gets to be on MasterChef, where he's that gourmet, you know,
• 33:50
  where Barbara Resisti and then Antsegs shit.
• 33:54
  He's very aware of that fucking sword in the sauna though, as
• 33:57
  it's waving away in the room. Wouldn't you be?
• 34:02
  Well, But you know, you know about sorting saunas.
• 34:05
  Yeah. You know how, where they can go?
• 34:07
  Oh. Really.
• 34:07
  Doctor Who's story with a scene where the doctor visits the gay
• 34:10
  sauna? I think it might be.
• 34:13
  Yeah, yeah, don't, don't need any, but yeah, absolutely.
• 34:19
  But all the reason everyone else has said it would be going
• 34:22
  through from me as well if it was time, but that's going
• 34:25
  through because it's just one of the great pleasure as doctor to
• 34:29
  sit down, stick on the Romans and be lost for a blissful 90
• 34:33
  minutes. Maximus, my dear, my dear.
• 34:38
  She's a Nero. I have a surprise for you.
• 34:44
  Guess what it is. Well, now let me think.
• 34:47
  You want me to play in the arena?
• 34:50
  You guessed what's no problem at all.
• 34:52
  After all, you want to do your very best for your fellow
• 34:54
  artists. Why not the arena?
• 34:57
  Yes, Yes, of course. That that.
• 34:59
  That is exactly right. Whereas would I promise you I
• 35:01
  should try to make it a roaring success?
• 35:04
  You'll have to play something special.
• 35:06
  You'll know. Oh, yes, of course.
• 35:07
  Of course. Yes.
• 35:08
  Something serious. Yes.
• 35:09
  Something that they can really get their teeth into.
• 35:13
  No, you can't. I've told No.
• 35:16
  I've seen narrow. I've always wanted to put on a
• 35:19
  good show to give a great performance.
• 35:21
  After all, who knows, if I go down well, I might even make it
• 35:27
  my farewell performance. You see, I've always wanted to
• 35:32
  be considered as an artist of some taste, generally regarded
• 35:36
  as well, palatable. But I must be bored of you.
• 35:41
  Oh, I must, Surely you have so many other important things to
• 35:45
  attend to without standing here shoeing over the facts with me.
• 35:49
  Good gracious, it's something burning.
• 35:51
  Well, I mean, you'd be a pretty brave, brave soldier now to take
• 35:57
  this on. Well, you know what?
• 36:00
  You know, when we're initially discussing me coming on the
• 36:02
  podcast and we're thinking of stories me and my father
• 36:04
  disagree on, the Romans was one of the ones that came up.
• 36:07
  Oh. Why don't you like this then?
• 36:11
  I do not really like the Romans. It's like this main.
• 36:14
  There's several main reasons, but it's like it's like tearing
• 36:17
  them off my top of my head, but they kind of tie into one.
• 36:20
  It's like from my perspective, the comedy just does not land at
• 36:24
  all for me. I didn't really find myself
• 36:27
  entertained at all the whole way through just watching it.
• 36:32
  I just felt like I was watching another average Doctor Who story
• 36:35
  from the 60s. I didn't particularly feel like
• 36:37
  I was watching anything stand out or special.
• 36:41
  So even on the rewatch we had just a few days ago, I didn't
• 36:45
  find myself particularly entertaining.
• 36:48
  Slightly more than last time, but still not particularly much.
• 36:53
  But and then other reason is again ties in with the comedy,
• 36:57
  but it's like the comedy didn't land for me as I said, but yeah
• 37:01
  and then ties in with the comedy.
• 37:04
  My second reason. But so I'm since I'm very on the
• 37:10
  Internet, it's I'm seeing constantly nowadays people
• 37:16
  getting exposed for doing similar things that nearest
• 37:18
  portrayed is doing in this story, which is chasing younger
• 37:21
  girls around and whatnot. And it's like it's constantly
• 37:25
  this person's a pedophile, this person's a pedophile.
• 37:27
  And it's like it just comes off as really like not great for me.
• 37:31
  I don't like how it lands at all.
• 37:34
  You're do. You know, like, I don't even
• 37:38
  know if that's a generational thing.
• 37:40
  You're not the first person that I've had a conversation with on
• 37:43
  the podcast to say that and to say that they are uncomfortable
• 37:47
  with what happens in episode 3. You're certainly not the first
• 37:50
  person on the podcast that I've spoken to to say that they don't
• 37:53
  find that the comedy lands in the Romans because it's as broad
• 37:56
  as it is. So I don't think you're as much
• 37:59
  as an outlier as you think you might be.
• 38:01
  No, it's, it's interesting, though.
• 38:02
  It's worth, it's worth talking about.
• 38:03
  And I think it's, it's, it's a, it's a fascinating observation
• 38:07
  because of, you know, what, what works is comedy and, and what
• 38:10
  doesn't. And I, and I, you know, purely,
• 38:16
  I say this purely as an observation.
• 38:19
  I do find that the, the younger generation, and maybe this is
• 38:22
  something that old farts always find.
• 38:25
  Do you know, I, I, I started doing comedy at a time when we
• 38:30
  were kicking back against, you know, what we saw as a
• 38:33
  prevalence of racism and sexism on the mainstream comedy
• 38:36
  circuit. And so we did stuff that that
• 38:37
  kicked back against that. So we thought of ourselves as
• 38:39
  very progressive. And now you find the stuff that
• 38:42
  you laughed at when you were younger being looked at with an
• 38:46
  arched eyebrow by the generation coming through.
• 38:48
  So I think it's a natural process that we shouldn't resist
• 38:50
  and sort of go, oh, young people are idiots because, you know,
• 38:54
  many, many a bigot has fallen at that hurdle.
• 38:57
  But I think what because I've heard this about the I've heard
• 39:02
  responses like this to the to the Nero and Barbara thing where
• 39:05
  people are saying, well, sexual assault isn't very funny.
• 39:08
  No, nor's poisoning a man. But within the world of farce
• 39:11
  that has been created, you are never in under any illusion that
• 39:15
  Barbara is going to get sexually assaulted by Nero.
• 39:18
  The joke is partly on Nero because he's so awful and he's
• 39:21
  such an idiot and you know, Barbara is outrunning him.
• 39:24
  It's it's taking the comic form of which is an age-old thing and
• 39:30
  and the joke is as much on the pursuer, in fact, more on the
• 39:33
  pursuer than the pursue because Barbara is by far, you know,
• 39:37
  more intelligent and more grounded and the person we we
• 39:40
  side with much more. Yes, rape isn't funny, but but
• 39:44
  but the the sort of sexual disconnect and the desires of
• 39:49
  men and the and the attitudes of men towards women and vice versa
• 39:56
  have have been rich comic pickings for for many years.
• 40:01
  And and those things can stray over into offence often and
• 40:05
  certainly through the passage of time.
• 40:07
  But I think within the world that is created here, you're
• 40:11
  never under any illusion that it is implying that this that this
• 40:15
  thing in real life is funny. But the ludicrousness if this
• 40:19
  fat, grotesque. Egomaniac chasing this very
• 40:26
  sensible person who's always manages to escape him is is, as
• 40:31
  I say, from the medium of farce rather than a comment on the
• 40:35
  seriousness of sexual politics. And I think sometimes you have
• 40:38
  to accept a joke that is presenting itself to you as as
• 40:42
  something that is purely comedic, whether it's to your
• 40:45
  taste or not with the with the goodwill of going.
• 40:48
  But they are just doing a joke, whether I like it or not.
• 40:51
  It it is meant as a it's a joke, you know.
• 40:53
  It's less when's he going to get her.
• 40:57
  That would be a dramatic situation.
• 40:59
  It's more what ridiculous thing is going to get in his way.
• 41:03
  That's the emphasis on that. So it's the doctor, it's the
• 41:06
  wife, you know, it's Titulinus. It's a series of bizarre
• 41:10
  obstacles that's stopping him getting what he was, which is
• 41:13
  problematic. But like you say, the like John
• 41:16
  said, the emphasis is all on oh, sorry, that Jack said the
• 41:20
  emphasis is all on the fact that Nero is a fucking idiot and he's
• 41:24
  never going to get anywhere. I'm glad you brought that up,
• 41:27
  though. I think that was, I mean, I'll
• 41:28
  take I'll take me saying this out from the episode, but I'm
• 41:31
  glad you brought that up. I think that was worth talking
• 41:33
  about. But yes, just because other
• 41:38
  people have said a lot more about my point and elaborated on
• 41:42
  it, for those two reasons, I'm going to choose to Ben it.
• 41:46
  But it's going through anyway. Well, yeah.
• 41:49
  But when it comes to final round, that vote may be very the
• 41:52
  vote. Four against one is he?
• 41:55
  So who are we going to have come up from next then to pick this
• 41:59
  story? Oh, well, I'm here.
• 42:03
  You get my one story to talk about.
• 42:06
  I mean, yeah, sure, that's. Well, I'll do the one story that
• 42:12
  I I have contemplated before this episode about possibly
• 42:19
  disposing of, but then watched again and had sort of my most
• 42:26
  positive reaction and positive viewing experience.
• 42:31
  But I think I have had before, and that's a little story that
• 42:37
  you and I prefer to know, not starring Peter crushed him, but
• 42:44
  in fact starring Mr. William Hartnell, the Darwin Convention
• 42:49
  of Earth, which I came away from, from this viewing being a
• 42:55
  lot more impressed. Well, not impressed is maybe a
• 42:58
  wrong word, but a lot more positive a bit than I have been
• 43:01
  before. And I'm going to champion it in
• 43:05
  the way that I didn't think I was, you know, when we were
• 43:09
  added to this rube originally. I think obviously, being a
• 43:15
  television story, there's some sorts of wandering around in
• 43:21
  Part 1 episodes, you know, it is the bidding to dump bodies in
• 43:28
  the river. So John will have to dump Eddie
• 43:31
  somewhere else at the end of the river.
• 43:35
  Well, who'd look? There and yeah, I, I think
• 43:43
  Richard Martin obviously gets a chance to be on film.
• 43:46
  So you may get some bits that look somewhat confident as the
• 43:51
  Daleks have invaded Earth, invaded our land.
• 43:57
  You know, Termination's fascist symbols with their plunges,
• 44:04
  Askew provocative angle have invaded our land, which
• 44:11
  obviously 20 years on from World War Two.
• 44:15
  Well, I think invokes certain fears in the audience and indeed
• 44:22
  invoking a certain cinema of the years past, things like perhaps
• 44:28
  when did they well or of you know, what happens if they come
• 44:33
  over here. And obviously the kids of 196364
• 44:39
  will remember the Daleks very fondly, obviously.
• 44:45
  And this chance of a second battle will have undoubtedly
• 44:52
  been incredibly exciting. And indeed, that episode 1
• 44:56
  cliffhanger of the Daleks sort of making his way up to the
• 45:02
  water is you get what you paid for there.
• 45:06
  That's a really, it's obviously got a lot to compete with.
• 45:11
  The iconic episode 1 cliffhanger of the Daleks is obviously
• 45:17
  another really potent image in Dolphin's history, but I think
• 45:21
  this one gives it a good stab at time to be a gifted iconic.
• 45:27
  I think a lot of the I was quite impressed by a lot of the middle
• 45:32
  episodes. I guess a lot of classic who
• 45:35
  gets a lot of Flack for sort of flailing in the middle a little
• 45:39
  bit and being, you know, a great setup and then we're waiting for
• 45:43
  the end. I thought episode 3 was
• 45:45
  terrific. I was probably my favorite of a
• 45:48
  lot with the wonderful chase sequence with Barbara and
• 45:54
  Dortmund and Jimmy Turner. They'd be Darbits and, you know,
• 45:59
  splinting and the percussions going mad and.
• 46:03
  Even the attack. On the even.
• 46:05
  That terrible attack on the saucer with the camera above the
• 46:10
  action most of the time. Well, you know, sometimes the
• 46:14
  people of England buckets Earth have to fight off the
• 46:21
  militaristic invaders and you know, if you can't get behind
• 46:25
  that patriotic pair still it That's not my fault and it's not
• 46:29
  Richard Martin's fault. You know he had the.
• 46:32
  I think you'll find it is. Yeah, but just so to to do that.
• 46:38
  And yeah, I think I I guess it's one of my one kind of critique
• 46:45
  of the darn invasion of Earth is maybe the darn it for
• 46:49
  themselves. The bigger satellite dish in the
• 46:54
  in the back of it off. You know, it's it's quite
• 46:58
  distracting addition. And I think perhaps not the
• 47:02
  biggest fan of the David Graham's or squeaky, squeaky
• 47:08
  darn it voice. But yeah, I think it's packed
• 47:11
  with great characters. I really like the woman, I quite
• 47:15
  like Jimmy. The women in the woods who are
• 47:19
  credited as the women in the woods Jimmy and Bob have run
• 47:25
  into. I really like the EMM Phil
• 47:28
  dynamic and obviously that really touching a moment where
• 47:33
  sorry, Phil's the brother Larry, EM and Larry and Larry obviously
• 47:38
  his brother Phil gets turned into the robo man and I think
• 47:42
  that's a really touching moment between the two of them.
• 47:45
  That murder, that murder scene I really like.
• 47:50
  There's a pretty good one man, one man 1 episode cameo from the
• 47:57
  smuggler. I think Wells is his name.
• 48:00
  The smuggler who? Ashton is the smuggler Paddy
• 48:04
  O'Connell. Right, that's the one.
• 48:06
  So who is just, you know, not giving me him what he wants and
• 48:15
  when them and have to get blind to help them to help them
• 48:21
  escape. I think it's a really nice
• 48:23
  gritty, you know, a nice shot of Terry Nation pessimism and
• 48:29
  cynicism that I think the story needs a time where it is very,
• 48:33
  you know, gung ho. We will defeat the Darwin's bad
• 48:37
  to be. Some people are just trying to
• 48:39
  get by and trying to save themselves and damn the rest of
• 48:44
  you. And I think that's a really nice
• 48:47
  note at that point in the story. And of course, the Inbin, which
• 48:52
  you know, we're all going to talk about the final seem, you
• 48:58
  know, mine is some slighter Caroline Ford history on it, you
• 49:03
  know. Oh, David, I do love you.
• 49:05
  I do. I promise.
• 49:08
  I love you. I love you so much.
• 49:10
  It's you know, you'll never go into the term, but I am because
• 49:14
  I'm the same as Caroline Ford. You're a bit more than that.
• 49:18
  In there, you know Jack. Thank you, grandfather.
• 49:24
  But yeah, obviously William Hartnell has that terrific
• 49:27
  moment which gets brought up and then in The Five Doctors, and
• 49:30
  quite rightly so, because it is again not to be a little bit
• 49:34
  boring in repetitive. So William Hartnell mails it
• 49:38
  when he when he really means to. Obviously it's clearly
• 49:43
  relationship between William Hartman and Caroline Ford was
• 49:47
  clearly one that was very touching to both of them.
• 49:50
  And I think that that is carried that is portrayed well in
• 49:54
  machine. And I think it's a really
• 49:57
  important moment for the programme.
• 49:59
  Obviously, you know, just as much as I had in my younger
• 50:05
  days, you know, losing the 9th Doctor, losing roses and
• 50:10
  realizing that the show is kind of all about change.
• 50:15
  It's interesting that this story, which obviously planet of
• 50:19
  giants and dynamic invasion of Earth are sort of they set up
• 50:27
  one thing only to reveal another in the sense of you think those
• 50:32
  stories what Jim in order as I did, you think those stories are
• 50:37
  going to be the conclusion to the through running plot line of
• 50:43
  season 1, which is William and Barbara get home.
• 50:48
  So plenty of giants. Hooray, Ian and Barbara back
• 50:52
  home in England, but the one inch small 1.
• 50:55
  So you know, we have to play out that adventure.
• 50:58
  Dominic invasion of earth. Hooray, Ian and Barbara back
• 51:02
  home. They're finally going to leave.
• 51:04
  But it's Earth in the far-flung future.
• 51:08
  And, you know, it's a sort boys own, you know, 1940s, you know,
• 51:18
  propaganda film parody with the Dharmic film.
• 51:22
  And it's actually Susan that's going home, going home this time
• 51:26
  rather than me and Barbara. And that's a sort of nice cap
• 51:30
  off to be. I mean, I'm not going to be one
• 51:33
  of those pedantic people who say, oh, actually plenty of
• 51:36
  times and Dharmic and Nation of Earth should actually be
• 51:38
  considered part of Season 1 because of the ongoing story
• 51:44
  thing. But I think it's a really nice
• 51:47
  cap off to the events that we've seen so far, bringing back them
• 51:51
  on iconic monsters and saying goodbye to one of the characters
• 51:55
  and pushing forward-looking for change.
• 51:59
  So yeah, I think possibly it might not be the best story to
• 52:03
  be watching all in one day. Maybe that might be a bit of
• 52:07
  Tyson, but within this sort of episodic format that the Hartman
• 52:12
  hero really excels at, I think the dynamic invasion of Earth
• 52:17
  surprised me, which sounds sounds ludicrous to say that one
• 52:22
  of the most iconic stories in the show's history could
• 52:26
  surprise me at this point. But I did have a much more
• 52:29
  positive viewing experience of it than I had before.
• 52:32
  So yes, Hooray for no more season.
• 52:36
  Hooray for William Hartnell, you know, preparing something that
• 52:42
  can be used in the event of his death, which was very smart for
• 52:47
  them. And yeah, Hooray for the dark
• 52:50
  envision of Earth. Let's put it for.
• 52:54
  You sound just like my father at the end of Fusion of Deep
• 52:56
  celebrating Victoria leaving. And that's how I felt when Clara
• 53:01
  left as well. We all have that moment at some
• 53:03
  point in Doctor Who. That's how long did the field
• 53:06
  when I switched off. I haven't yet, thank.
• 53:09
  You bastard. Who's next then?
• 53:16
  Eddie? Can I put myself to go next in
• 53:19
  case I crash again? Yeah, go for it.
• 53:22
  So yeah, so we talk about this story where everyone seems to be
• 53:28
  very indecisive on the year. It is because BBC presenters
• 53:32
  originally area they said the year is 2000.
• 53:34
  The movie says it's 2150, but apparently the official setting
• 53:39
  is 2167. So whichever year you may choose
• 53:45
  it to be in, but it has not happened as of 2000, which from
• 53:49
  what I've seen of 2000 history, I can confirm it hadn't
• 53:52
  happened. But.
• 53:54
  We shall get it worse. It's worse.
• 53:56
  The Tauric invasion of Earth, Sorry, continues.
• 54:00
  Well, yeah, well, yeah, it's probably worse because it had
• 54:02
  you in it. But anyway of you moving on.
• 54:06
  So I think it I would probably put the story through and I've
• 54:13
  got a few reasons why. Well, I'm obligated to give a
• 54:17
  few reasons anyway, but I think there's some comedy in this that
• 54:21
  actually lands for me, unlike our predecessor of the Romans,
• 54:25
  because it's like mainly the comedy of Barbara running over a
• 54:30
  Dalek. Sorry this late at the end of
• 54:32
  Stolen Earth, she did better than you.
• 54:34
  Tough up it's. A great thing when she goes
• 54:38
  through those Daleks for that, I mean, think we're better in the
• 54:40
  movie. Yeah, Richard Martin, make sure
• 54:43
  you can almost see what's happening.
• 54:48
  I love it. But it's like that as a on
• 54:52
  initial watch, that scene just absolutely stuck out to me
• 54:55
  because it's like companion toughing up and just running
• 54:58
  over someone who's meant to be the powerful overlord of Earth
• 55:04
  and then just gets run over yet Oh no, taking over the whole
• 55:08
  universe in like 2009 or something.
• 55:11
  And then a big companion then of Sarah Jane Smith just gets 2
• 55:15
  skids go anywhere near them with her car.
• 55:17
  It's like tough up woman. Just get in the car and run them
• 55:21
  over. Like like your very brave
• 55:24
  university professor that you said never raged it.
• 55:28
  Hang on, are you talking about the Stolen Earth or the Dalek
• 55:30
  invasion of Earth? Dalek invasion of Earth and I'm
• 55:32
  just saying this Laden couldn't do it, but it Jacqueline Hill
• 55:36
  could and therefore that makes her the best companion, which my
• 55:40
  father will be very proud to hear.
• 55:42
  But yeah, that's just sort of a miniature reason.
• 55:47
  But then it's like second reason is like when we were in
• 55:51
  initially re watching it last time, it's I found it like a
• 55:56
  really good and so easy to read depiction of what sort of
• 56:00
  factors coming from because like it's coming from perspective of
• 56:04
  what could have happened in the sci-fi world had well, in real
• 56:10
  world, obviously context would probably be what would happen if
• 56:13
  Hitler had won World War 2. But it's like this is basically
• 56:16
  depicting that I find that really interesting to read, but
• 56:19
  with tin robots. And I think the fact that it's
• 56:24
  just very, very educational to the children of the time.
• 56:28
  And obviously, I believe that. Obviously I wasn't around 60
• 56:32
  years ago, so I can't comment on this, but I believe it was also
• 56:36
  the thing that sort of settled the minds in the dark, in the
• 56:40
  hearts of the public and just made them think, yeah, they're
• 56:44
  here to stay. We need more of them.
• 56:45
  We need toys for Christmas. We need everything.
• 56:50
  And the fact that it's just that impactful alone is not even one
• 56:54
  of the most famous parts of the story.
• 56:57
  I think that just stands out a lot and, and this isn't a full
• 57:05
  point, but I do I do quite like the paper plate.
• 57:10
  UFO. That they amuse me.
• 57:12
  And obviously, as Jack said, we have to talk about the ending.
• 57:18
  One day I shall come back. No, you shan't.
• 57:21
  She shall be coming back for you while you're freezing to death
• 57:24
  in the middle of space after the Song Contest gone wrong.
• 57:27
  A long time in the future, yes. So, so yeah, she she was like, I
• 57:33
  can't be fucked waiting for you anymore.
• 57:35
  So I'm just coming right to you. And now I'm getting scrapped
• 57:38
  because the writers don't know how to end this.
• 57:40
  But yeah, that's going off topic again.
• 57:42
  But yeah, she did. Pop back to Gallipoli, once
• 57:45
  said. Yes, obviously there was the
• 57:47
  five doctors, but I don't count that because.
• 57:50
  That that that's fine with. Mainly because I find the five
• 57:54
  doctors a little overrated, but I'm getting off topic again and
• 57:58
  I do not want to be cancelled for this when I have other
• 58:01
  better opinions in this season to be cancelled on.
• 58:04
  You insulted Toby Haydock at the start of this call.
• 58:07
  You're being cancelled anyway, don't you worry.
• 58:10
  I've cancelled you already. Just wait to see what my father
• 58:12
  has to say about this story to him.
• 58:17
  Well, the thing about Terry Nation is he really doesn't kind
• 58:21
  of, as me and my friend Jim said, this is the man who really
• 58:27
  kind of created Doctor Who as we know it.
• 58:29
  He puts that pulp side by element that they were
• 58:33
  deliberately Sydney didn't want in there.
• 58:37
  But what was popular, what worked, it was that pulp science
• 58:41
  fiction combined with that little political angle.
• 58:46
  Because I, I don't think the dialect is Nazis last
• 58:48
  particularly long. I think it's gone by the end of
• 58:51
  this season, to be honest, for the most part.
• 58:54
  But he understands what's popular because you look at
• 58:59
  Doctor Who's first 3 Christmases, they're all Dalek
• 59:02
  stories. They have, they know what's
• 59:04
  popular, they know what works. But.
• 59:07
  What do you say the first one was a risk?
• 59:10
  It was, but it was the biggest jackpot in team in probably
• 59:15
  British TV history that one moment, you know, go and check
• 59:18
  it. But we that's been covered
• 59:20
  elsewhere. So I don't think Terry Nation
• 59:24
  particularly perhaps in nuts and Bolt is a particularly great
• 59:26
  writer because he's just working off that kind of structure of
• 59:30
  the old cinema serials that you know that he loved as a kid.
• 59:34
  But he gives the everyone making the show such a bloody challenge
• 59:41
  in these stories. You know, this is a show that's
• 59:43
  been studio bag for it. He wrote a story that needs him
• 59:46
  to go outside, needs filming, that needs a mind at the end
• 59:49
  that needs scale, needs to go out to London, all that exterior
• 59:53
  filming, that budget busting stuff.
• 59:57
  And in doing so, he expands the show from what that what it was
• 1:00:03
  in that first season from that kind of.
• 1:00:06
  Theatrical style to to move it towards being perhaps a more
• 1:00:11
  television thing as much as you know, British TV becomes
• 1:00:15
  television because it is essentially rooted in theatre.
• 1:00:18
  So the that thing about it is that Terry Nation gives this
• 1:00:24
  world such but he he makes the BBC work at creating the world
• 1:00:30
  and the way they create those historicals that are far more
• 1:00:34
  kind of but he because that's what the BBC needs.
• 1:00:37
  This is kind of a beautiful thing.
• 1:00:40
  They build a future out of the present.
• 1:00:43
  I know the kind of time differences are a little
• 1:00:44
  ridiculous. That's probably because the
• 1:00:46
  original intention was was 2000. So it wouldn't be such a stretch
• 1:00:49
  to say this is what London looked like in 2000.
• 1:00:53
  But that odd familiar, you're seeing these creatures who
• 1:00:58
  you've only previously seen on an alien world in the middle of
• 1:01:01
  London, you know, with giving their Nazi slips with little
• 1:01:04
  plungers. It's absolutely, you know, it
• 1:01:08
  must be kind of thrilling and terrifying to kids.
• 1:01:12
  Terry Nation knows exactly what the audience wants.
• 1:01:15
  And he and he doesn't care what the BB CS budget does to get it.
• 1:01:19
  So this is, yeah. Doctor Who becoming ambitious,
• 1:01:24
  it's in realising this kind of terrifying future where
• 1:01:29
  everything's gone backwards because humanity is just barely
• 1:01:33
  surviving where it's, it's got decent thoughts being put into
• 1:01:36
  how to realise it. And yeah, like Jack, I've got to
• 1:01:41
  say, despite what he does in the studio, Richard Martin, when he
• 1:01:46
  gets outside, when he gets space to work with where he doesn't
• 1:01:50
  have to avoid choreographing a ton of supporting artists, It
• 1:01:56
  it's beautiful. The, you know, the story of
• 1:01:59
  Barbara with the with the car already been mentioned that
• 1:02:03
  everyone coming out to the mine shaft at the end, that is that
• 1:02:06
  always kind of takes my breath away for 60s Doctor Who because
• 1:02:09
  you don't see much on that scale.
• 1:02:12
  It's gorgeous. So yeah, for the way this opens
• 1:02:16
  up Doctor Who, I will happily put this through.
• 1:02:20
  But you didn't even let me finish.
• 1:02:21
  Probably went into your reason, so whatever.
• 1:02:24
  I'm assuming you're putting it through though, Ed.
• 1:02:26
  Well, yeah, I, I already said at the start of it of my reasoning,
• 1:02:29
  I'm putting it through. But yes, that did give me a
• 1:02:31
  reasoning of it. The fact that it was also the
• 1:02:34
  first time, yeah, first time they'd properly gone out on
• 1:02:36
  location. Bar stunt double who funnily
• 1:02:39
  enough had the same birthday as me going out and walking in the
• 1:02:42
  forest. Proper location working.
• 1:02:46
  It proves that Doctor Who works well on location and should be
• 1:02:50
  done more. Which really I do think it was
• 1:02:54
  an amazing step and at the time I I need more Doctor Who on
• 1:02:59
  location stuff. I sure as mentioned, it's got
• 1:03:04
  the great burner, came his first Doctor Who stories, which is
• 1:03:07
  always a bonus to see. BS and approved Doctor Who can
• 1:03:12
  work on location and does work on location and needs location
• 1:03:16
  to thrive, which obviously would play a little bit of a part to
• 1:03:21
  several years later. And obviously they didn't know
• 1:03:24
  what to do with the show after Patrick Troutman was leaving and
• 1:03:26
  they had to film entirely our location.
• 1:03:30
  Yeah, that's a peek into an alternative universe there.
• 1:03:34
  Yes, into the alternative universe of the other hamster I
• 1:03:37
  was on. All right.
• 1:03:39
  But yes anyway. Well, I'm sort of on the fence
• 1:03:43
  with this one. I want to love it as much as
• 1:03:46
  everybody else does, but at times it is so ineptly executed
• 1:03:51
  I'm kind of irritated more than I'm entertained, even though I
• 1:03:55
  do think parts of it are very, very good.
• 1:03:58
  I want to bang on about the location work because everyone's
• 1:04:00
  talking about it, but it is like another director is behind the
• 1:04:04
  camera when it's on location. It's.
• 1:04:06
  So because because it is because the film cameraman often
• 1:04:09
  dictates or at least suggests the shots.
• 1:04:12
  Yeah, the film cameraman in the studio then.
• 1:04:14
  Yeah. That's more.
• 1:04:16
  Than it wouldn't. But he would put Peter
• 1:04:20
  Hamilton's The Film Cameraman on, on Dalek Evasion of Earth.
• 1:04:23
  But he wouldn't he, you know, he wouldn't.
• 1:04:25
  He wouldn't be in the studio because he's a film cameraman.
• 1:04:27
  He would be at healing or on location.
• 1:04:30
  But like the two side by side, when you cut from studio to
• 1:04:33
  location, it's just there is such a gulf between the two on
• 1:04:37
  location. It's carefully chosen shots,
• 1:04:39
  sharp editing. The editing is so sharp on
• 1:04:42
  location compared to the studio work, the the lighting that they
• 1:04:46
  choose. But it's natural lighting
• 1:04:48
  obviously, but it's very Moody. There's arty cutaways of things
• 1:04:52
  like the the swaying chain in episode 1 and things like that
• 1:04:56
  and the atmospheric brutalist music.
• 1:04:59
  It's just so perfect for the location work.
• 1:05:03
  So we'll say boys own. I mean, I think this has an
• 1:05:06
  incredibly fatalistic tone. The Talek invasion of earth.
• 1:05:09
  It's got an astonishing death count in it for a story this
• 1:05:14
  early heart of complaints later on when he's sort of looking for
• 1:05:18
  an excuse when he's going about the the evil that's coming into
• 1:05:21
  the show. But this is dark stuff.
• 1:05:24
  It's got a back. Story complaints about Doctor
• 1:05:27
  Who getting too. Woke we'll.
• 1:05:29
  Get there? That's about another story
• 1:05:31
  though. On this list.
• 1:05:32
  There's a back story there about plague and mass murder.
• 1:05:35
  The Robin men are The Walking Dead.
• 1:05:38
  The attack on the sorcery. It's like a slaughterhouse.
• 1:05:43
  Someone mentioned Larry and Phil fighting to death like that is
• 1:05:47
  brutal. That scene where he's pumping
• 1:05:50
  him, his brother full of bullets, It's violent, it's
• 1:05:53
  nasty and death feels like it's round every single corner.
• 1:05:57
  Even like the heroes, the people that we love are murdered in
• 1:06:01
  this, the death of Dortmund. It's so vivid.
• 1:06:04
  I mean, him that sort of pushing his wheel of his wheelchair as
• 1:06:08
  the Daleks shoot him to death. And I do think episode 1 is one
• 1:06:12
  of the best Terra Nation scripts that he ever wrote.
• 1:06:15
  The suicide at the start, the blasted London backdrop, the
• 1:06:19
  bridge collapsing on the TARDIS, the bodies in the river, the
• 1:06:23
  sources patrolling the air, the Darling coming out of the
• 1:06:25
  Thames. It's just one vivid, atmospheric
• 1:06:28
  thing after another. It's a it's an episode packed
• 1:06:31
  full of mysteries in the way that Terry Nation does.
• 1:06:35
  However, the direction plods in the studio, it's very much that
• 1:06:41
  will do direction at time although not buy.
• 1:06:44
  I've heard Richard Martin talk about time and money, but
• 1:06:49
  Douglas Canfield had the same time and very often less money
• 1:06:54
  than because I've seen the budgets for these episodes less
• 1:06:58
  money than Richard Martin did. And he directed Darling Master
• 1:07:04
  Plan next year so stylishly and skillfully that I just, I don't
• 1:07:08
  buy it. I think it comes down to the
• 1:07:10
  skill of the director at times. He it genuinely isn't pointing
• 1:07:14
  the camera at what's happening, which is odd.
• 1:07:17
  The pace does plot and the editing is really terrible.
• 1:07:22
  The cutaways to people dying or dying off screen and the
• 1:07:26
  dreadful reaction shots. It's it's really inept at times.
• 1:07:30
  I genuinely think that Attack on the saucer might be the most
• 1:07:32
  baffling action sequence ever in Doctor Who.
• 1:07:35
  I don't have a clue what's going on.
• 1:07:50
  All exits all. That's where I'm locked.
• 1:07:55
  Go away. As the attack.
• 1:08:11
  Been defeated? Yes.
• 1:08:13
  Most of the rebels were killed or wounded.
• 1:08:25
  I don't quite understand as well.
• 1:08:27
  I think there's a more dramatic story in telling the Dalek
• 1:08:29
  invasion of Earth rather than after the Dalek invasion of
• 1:08:33
  Earth. We see the consequences.
• 1:08:34
  Rather the back story that we hear about the plagues and all
• 1:08:38
  of this and the way they systematically take the planet.
• 1:08:41
  That sounds much more. That's why you did it in The
• 1:08:43
  Stolen Earth. That's where the drama is.
• 1:08:46
  So coming in after the drama is a bit of an odd choice.
• 1:08:49
  And like John, I don't like the voices in this.
• 1:08:51
  They are nasty camp Tin pots in this calhem is a very, very odd
• 1:08:58
  choice. They're a bit.
• 1:08:59
  At least I can understand them without having to go back and
• 1:09:01
  translate it, unlike the side men in the moon base.
• 1:09:04
  I just don't like Daleks when they sound too much like people.
• 1:09:07
  I like a bit more modulation in the voice.
• 1:09:09
  So here and in Revelation of the Daleks, I don't know, it just
• 1:09:13
  loses something a little bit for me.
• 1:09:15
  I am going to what have we got? Three put throughs.
• 1:09:18
  So it don't matter then, does it?
• 1:09:20
  I'll put it through as well. I think there's enough here
• 1:09:22
  that's good. But fuck, the direction is very,
• 1:09:26
  very bad at times. Yeah, but I'll put it through.
• 1:09:33
  I, I, I thought this was going to be harder because I thought
• 1:09:36
  this might divide people a bit more than it has.
• 1:09:38
  And, and actually, when we started upon this, because I'm
• 1:09:43
  aware that tonight might be a bit of a struggle for me, I, I
• 1:09:47
  was erring on the side of saving this, even though 10 years ago I
• 1:09:52
  wouldn't have had a question because decrying the Dalek
• 1:09:55
  invasion of Earth would be something of a party piece for
• 1:09:57
  me. Because there's nothing like
• 1:09:59
  being a Slayer of Dragons. There's nothing like an
• 1:10:02
  acknowledged classic having its faults picked over by somebody
• 1:10:05
  who has the, the, the great perception so to do.
• 1:10:11
  But as, as I, you know, get into this part of my life, I, I, I
• 1:10:16
  tend to look more favourably upon things and try to
• 1:10:19
  accentuate the positive and try to appreciate the work that
• 1:10:21
  people do. So for example, Joe, I, I don't
• 1:10:23
  think Richard Martin is lazy. I actually think he has great
• 1:10:26
  ambition in certain areas. I, I think it's worse than that.
• 1:10:29
  But, and I really like Richard Martin.
• 1:10:31
  He is a very charismatic, jolly, funny fellow who is great
• 1:10:36
  company and I think he really is ambitious about how he wants to
• 1:10:42
  put things on screen. But I simply don't think he's
• 1:10:45
  competent. And and that's, and that's a
• 1:10:49
  shame because one, I, I despise laziness, particularly laziness
• 1:10:54
  when it is being applied under public money.
• 1:10:59
  I think it's one of the worst things you can do.
• 1:11:01
  But I think 1960s BBC, particularly Doctor Who, was a
• 1:11:04
  hotbed of creativity and people trying to push boundaries and do
• 1:11:07
  things. I just don't think Richard
• 1:11:10
  Martin can. And and why?
• 1:11:13
  Couldn't they see that then? Because they keep.
• 1:11:14
  Giving what into their? Choice pickings.
• 1:11:17
  This year, and it's not like he was sort of teacher's pet
• 1:11:20
  either, because he, even Verity Lambert argued all the time and
• 1:11:24
  and you know, she was constantly turning off and yet yet gave him
• 1:11:28
  the technically most complex and ambitious adventures.
• 1:11:33
  It's extraordinary, isn't it? But do I want to criticize a
• 1:11:40
  story and consign it to oblivion simply because it's badly
• 1:11:45
  directed? That seems like taking one
• 1:11:47
  element and and and tarnishing a tale simply because of that.
• 1:11:52
  But it is such a key element. I remember as a as a youngster
• 1:11:54
  watching this, I think it was one of those, it started to be
• 1:11:57
  my understanding of how important a director was to a
• 1:12:00
  story. And I, I could, you know,
• 1:12:02
  flatter myself that I was able to pick out the hallmarks of a
• 1:12:06
  of a Martin compared to a Camfield compared to a Ferguson
• 1:12:09
  compared to even a Michael Iverson, where something like
• 1:12:12
  the ark has the opposite issue. Really.
• 1:12:13
  Well, it's it's, you know, it's rescued by its direction is its
• 1:12:17
  most remarkable thing. Although actually I love the arc
• 1:12:19
  for other reasons, but let's not get into that can.
• 1:12:22
  You sorry to interrupt. Can you imagine?
• 1:12:23
  Can you imagine a Richard Martin story with the Sun to the Dalek
• 1:12:28
  light transition in the Dalek's master plan just with with as
• 1:12:32
  much thought as that in original writing stories?
• 1:12:35
  No, he'd have. He'd have had the the Dalek put
• 1:12:37
  sunglasses on and then and go oh oh it's shiny and then bump into
• 1:12:42
  the face. Isn't it?
• 1:12:43
  That that would have been an accident because he'd have
• 1:12:46
  accidentally turned the camera towards one of the studio lights
• 1:12:51
  on. Oh well, we'll leave that in.
• 1:12:53
  Absolutely, yes. And, and, and I mean, some of
• 1:12:58
  the staging of this is, is, is barely competent, particularly
• 1:13:02
  anything where there's a sort of fight in the studio.
• 1:13:04
  But, but even, you know, things like cliffhangers and stuff.
• 1:13:06
  And we'll we'll talk about that when we get to the web planet,
• 1:13:08
  I'm sure. But and it used to be
• 1:13:13
  fashionable as well to knock Terry Nation because Terry
• 1:13:15
  Nation was the man who, according to Trivial Pursuit to
• 1:13:18
  create a Doctor Who and young people like me used to, you
• 1:13:21
  know, it was our another party piece to go.
• 1:13:23
  Well, I think you'll find that's not true.
• 1:13:25
  And Terry Nation got a lot of credit and we knew that actually
• 1:13:29
  he'd submitted very short scripts and he probably didn't
• 1:13:33
  write the, and he'd gone to America and fly like a feat and
• 1:13:36
  he'd and all of that. But, and, and I think, and I
• 1:13:42
  think Terry Nation is lazy, but Terry Nation, the reason Terry
• 1:13:45
  Nation is lazy is because he can do it.
• 1:13:48
  And that is also sort of unforgivable.
• 1:13:50
  But but having, you know, having studied the early years of the
• 1:13:53
  show in in quite a lot of detail, it's clear that Terry
• 1:13:56
  Nation is really important to them because he can just do it.
• 1:14:00
  He can produce something that you can make in a television
• 1:14:03
  studio. He doesn't require much
• 1:14:05
  rewriting. And and the sad thing is that he
• 1:14:07
  knows he can do it. So he kind of just sort of
• 1:14:10
  whacks it out. But but what's interesting about
• 1:14:13
  that is that a lot of the stuff that he does is is very cliched
• 1:14:16
  stuff. You know, he does brothers and
• 1:14:18
  sisters quite a lot. You know, he does somebody who's
• 1:14:22
  either got an eye patch or a wheelchair, things like that.
• 1:14:24
  That actually, if we want to talk about what's problematic
• 1:14:27
  through the modern lens, which we which we seem to be less
• 1:14:31
  worried about is, is that because it is quite a funky
• 1:14:34
  short ad. You know, scarred faced Nazi
• 1:14:36
  officers, you know, people with an eye missing, you know,
• 1:14:39
  zealous scientists who are zealous because they're
• 1:14:42
  wheelchair users and all, all of those sorts of things which
• 1:14:46
  through, through, you know, some, some aspects of my life
• 1:14:50
  now that I, I look at those things slightly differently, but
• 1:14:54
  I can also totally get over them because I know the context in
• 1:14:57
  which they were made. And I know that we, we are
• 1:14:59
  afforded that privilege to look at them in a slightly different
• 1:15:02
  way because of, you know, paths that have been taken since.
• 1:15:06
  But they are all sort of compelling dramatic shorthands,
• 1:15:09
  I think. I think Nation has a very good
• 1:15:12
  pulp, a very good aptitude for pulp.
• 1:15:16
  And I, I was brought up on, you know, World War 2 iconography in
• 1:15:21
  the dramas that were, you know, that were done in film, in
• 1:15:24
  magazines, all that sort of thing.
• 1:15:25
  And to have that in Doctor Who seemed very grown up and it
• 1:15:28
  seemed very exciting and it seemed very sort of bread and
• 1:15:31
  butter. And Doctor Who can only be the
• 1:15:33
  eclectic and brilliant show that it is if the bread and butter is
• 1:15:36
  right. It is a bit like other sort of
• 1:15:39
  sci-fi, perhaps sci-fi that is a bit more traditional and has a
• 1:15:42
  bit more money and is a bit more comic bookie.
• 1:15:44
  But if Doctor Who didn't have that, I think it would be almost
• 1:15:47
  too esoteric in a way. So I like it when Doctor Who is
• 1:15:50
  sort of nuts and bolts and basics.
• 1:15:52
  And Terry Nation does nuts and bolts the basics very well
• 1:15:55
  whilst also, you know, changing the show.
• 1:15:58
  That's what this story does. It's it's you know, they found
• 1:16:01
  these aliens on this alien planet and had this interesting
• 1:16:04
  sci-fi adventure and these aliens took the country by
• 1:16:06
  storm. So they go, well, what do we do
• 1:16:07
  now? Let's put them in front of the
• 1:16:10
  Houses of Parliament. When we film it, we'll forget to
• 1:16:13
  actually frame them brilliantly in it.
• 1:16:14
  And and the publicity photos will have to do that for us.
• 1:16:17
  But we'll, we'll, we'll get we'll get them out in London
• 1:16:19
  anyway. And that's quite a self
• 1:16:21
  consciously bold thing for a show that is a year old.
• 1:16:26
  And all of that stuff in location.
• 1:16:28
  I don't think you can imagine if you've watched Unearthly Child
• 1:16:32
  and the Dialects and Edge of Destruction and even Marco Polo,
• 1:16:35
  which is a sprawling epic that's almost entirely done in the
• 1:16:39
  studio, that suddenly you're outside and you've got this
• 1:16:42
  stuff going on. I think the show is sort of
• 1:16:44
  coming of age. So I, I, I don't think one
• 1:16:47
  should underestimate Dalek invasion of Earth 4 achievements
• 1:16:51
  like that, you know, and the women in the wood, you know that
• 1:16:54
  that's a World War 2. It's very taking the the the the
• 1:16:58
  storytelling tropes of World War 2 and and and, you know, molding
• 1:17:01
  Doctor Who into them, which is and the women in the woods, of
• 1:17:04
  course, have a have a rather sad claim to fame and that Jean
• 1:17:07
  Conroy, who plays the young woman in the wood, is the only
• 1:17:10
  performer from classic Doctor Who, who is who has died before
• 1:17:14
  her episode as Ed, which is rather a sad claim to fame that
• 1:17:19
  she has. I do think some of the film
• 1:17:22
  camera work is good. I don't think all of it is
• 1:17:24
  great, but I but but Peter Hamilton knew what he was doing.
• 1:17:27
  Is it Peter? Is it Fred?
• 1:17:28
  I think it's Peter. And and the music is the music
• 1:17:34
  is interesting and done, but but as a one off by Francis Chagrin,
• 1:17:40
  who's son is in vengeance on Vanos as Mr. Quillim and whose
• 1:17:45
  other son achieves television immortality as the secret
• 1:17:49
  lemonade drinker Julian Joy Chagrin, the son of Francis
• 1:17:57
  Chagrin. I used to think that secret
• 1:17:58
  lemonade drinker was so creepy the way he came down the stairs.
• 1:18:02
  I'm a secret. Lemonade drinker.
• 1:18:08
  I'm trying to keep him up. And you know who his wife is in
• 1:18:32
  that advert. You don't see her much, but
• 1:18:34
  she's behind him at the fridge. Go on.
• 1:18:36
  It's a Dalek connection. It's bet Anne Harriet Fulkin.
• 1:18:40
  So but anyway, digressing. So I I think that and and oh and
• 1:18:48
  Peter badger ad libbed saying Larry after Phil the robo man
• 1:18:51
  has been exterminated, which I think is a is a super moment,
• 1:18:55
  but none but a lot of those scenes are flubbed because of
• 1:18:58
  the execution. You've you never get the
• 1:19:00
  impression that Larry has been shot by Phil because the the
• 1:19:05
  dubbing of the machine gun is clearly happening off from
• 1:19:09
  somewhere else and on the. Page though that.
• 1:19:11
  Is so dumb on on the page There's yeah, there's some
• 1:19:14
  absolutely gritty great stuff. And when that stuff when that
• 1:19:17
  stuff is matched tonally like Patrick O'Connell, who's only in
• 1:19:20
  one episode, but he's absolutely bang on as Ashton the the black
• 1:19:24
  marketeer. When when all the sort of when
• 1:19:27
  it when it tonally absolutely hits what it should be.
• 1:19:30
  And I think so, you know, I think Bernard Kay is absolutely
• 1:19:32
  fantastic. Alan Judd is very good as
• 1:19:34
  Portman, but it's just every time you're willing a sequence
• 1:19:39
  to sort of cohere, it never quite does.
• 1:19:43
  So it means it's flabby, That scene where Baker gets
• 1:19:45
  exterminated, you can barely see what's going on.
• 1:19:48
  And it should be, you know, it should be, oh, he's escaping.
• 1:19:50
  And, and it's just, and it's it's it's, it's inept.
• 1:19:54
  Unfortunately, it's not competent.
• 1:19:56
  It is not competent. People tell me that scene at the
• 1:19:59
  end is very moving, where you know where he's going.
• 1:20:01
  He knew. He, he's not even in, He's not
• 1:20:04
  in short. It's just like very short.
• 1:20:06
  What's going on? I actually think season's
• 1:20:09
  Susan's leaving scene is effectively done.
• 1:20:11
  I like the camera position and I like the music and I like I like
• 1:20:14
  the performances. Not.
• 1:20:15
  Sure why they don't look at each other though, It's very strange.
• 1:20:22
  Listen, Susan, please, I've double locked the doors.
• 1:20:25
  You can't get in now. Move back child, when I can see
• 1:20:28
  you. During all the years I've been
• 1:20:37
  taking care of you, you in the town have been taking care of
• 1:20:41
  me. I belong with.
• 1:20:43
  You. Not any longer, Susan.
• 1:20:45
  You're still my grandchild and always will be.
• 1:20:49
  But now you're a woman too. I want you to belong somewhere,
• 1:20:56
  to have roots of your own. With David, you'll be able to
• 1:21:00
  find those roots and live normally like any woman should
• 1:21:03
  do. Believe me, my dear, your future
• 1:21:07
  lies with David and not with a silly old buffer like me.
• 1:21:13
  One day I shall come back. Yes, I shall come back.
• 1:21:18
  Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties.
• 1:21:24
  Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I
• 1:21:29
  am not mistaken in mine. Goodbye, Susan.
• 1:21:36
  Goodbye my dear. And, and I think what it
• 1:21:38
  represents is quite important, as has been alluded to about the
• 1:21:43
  show being one that does have a revolving door and that is part
• 1:21:46
  of a a greater tapestry. So I don't want to, I don't want
• 1:21:49
  to knock it in the way that I would gleefully have done 152025
• 1:21:54
  years ago when I was always giving it one out of 10 because
• 1:21:57
  I knew loads of other people were giving it 10 out of 10.
• 1:21:59
  And I couldn't bear people having a different opinion from
• 1:22:01
  me. But, but I've, but I've, you
• 1:22:04
  know, I've put away such childish things and I, and I can
• 1:22:07
  appreciate what it stands for and what it does, but I think
• 1:22:10
  there are too many, too many central flaws to its execution.
• 1:22:15
  And also I have the privilege that I am amongst one amongst 5
• 1:22:20
  and everybody else has seen it through that I shall, I shall
• 1:22:23
  sound a dissenting note for, for execution as much as almost 100%
• 1:22:29
  for execution. And for the fact that, you know,
• 1:22:33
  when I was a kid, it was lauded as as being one of the shows all
• 1:22:36
  time classics. And it really isn't it.
• 1:22:39
  Won the William Hartnell DWM poll, didn't it?
• 1:22:43
  Also, what is going on there? Well, I mean, I think we're, I
• 1:22:47
  mean, at the moment, you know, democracy is proving to be
• 1:22:51
  Achilles heel, Achilles heel as a species.
• 1:22:54
  But look, and I'm very happy for people that absolutely love it
• 1:22:57
  and I wouldn't cast aspersions on their views.
• 1:22:59
  For me, I cannot get over the the the flimsiness and the
• 1:23:03
  flabbiness and the and the general, again, lack of
• 1:23:06
  competence in its execution. Although I think it's ambition
• 1:23:10
  not in terms of Terry Nation is not trying to break any molds,
• 1:23:14
  but he is ambitious in in what he wants the show to kind of
• 1:23:18
  achieve. But he's, you know, but he also
• 1:23:22
  knows, knows what you can do with the resources available.
• 1:23:25
  He just doesn't know what Richard Martin can do with the
• 1:23:28
  resources available. So, yeah, but but, but on
• 1:23:33
  balance, I will, I will bin it. But I've enjoyed listening to
• 1:23:36
  everybody saying nice things about it because it's always,
• 1:23:39
  it's always better to do that because we like Doctor Who.
• 1:23:41
  You know what kills me is that one bit of direction where he
• 1:23:44
  just keeps slowly zooming in on that bomb.
• 1:23:47
  Every time it ticks. I'm like Jesus.
• 1:23:51
  Christ, may I do my pick now. Go for it.
• 1:23:54
  I think I shall pick Planet of Giants because I'm interested to
• 1:23:59
  see how it'll go. Can you hear me?
• 1:24:05
  They're they were just manufactured.
• 1:24:07
  They were just speaking to the Series 12 producers telling them
• 1:24:10
  titles for the for their Amazon. Well done.
• 1:24:13
  They cut they cut out other scenes saying Praxia spy for.
• 1:24:20
  Now that's how you do comedy. Just they thought just because
• 1:24:23
  they thought it was another heart and all line flub.
• 1:24:28
  Anyway, yes, first point, which I believe my father particularly
• 1:24:32
  noticed, but I've taken I I quite liked how they did the
• 1:24:39
  miniature scale of the entire room.
• 1:24:43
  Phenomenal building, especially with like the sink is so
• 1:24:46
  realistic and they can stand in a sink.
• 1:24:51
  I can't imagine standing in a sink.
• 1:24:53
  Then I get to see them do it. It's built that built that well
• 1:24:57
  for that little budget and a whole sort of, it's all a whole
• 1:25:03
  sort of room. It's a whole sort of room just
• 1:25:08
  for a three-part story that everyone tends to forget because
• 1:25:11
  obviously it precedes Dark invasion of Earth.
• 1:25:15
  But set wise, it is possibly some of the best set work they
• 1:25:21
  have done because just because everything is so pinpoint
• 1:25:25
  accurate and you can believe that they have been shrunk down.
• 1:25:30
  Obviously the less believable images like is it, yeah, seeing
• 1:25:37
  the upscaled images of the guideline dead and it's just
• 1:25:42
  kind of looking a bit unrealistic.
• 1:25:44
  And I really, I really enjoy all that sort of theming.
• 1:25:48
  And then second sort of reasoning, I'll go into ISM sort
• 1:25:53
  of educational aspects of it with the insecticide.
• 1:25:58
  I quite like the fact that they just thought about how would,
• 1:26:05
  how do you think these insects feel getting murdered and
• 1:26:08
  basically no better than killing a man or anything like that.
• 1:26:12
  So obviously, yes, they do kill a man in it.
• 1:26:14
  But I saw I saw it get to a point where I'm, I'm kind of
• 1:26:19
  feeling bad for the fact that the insects had this happened to
• 1:26:22
  him. And the fact that insecticide is
• 1:26:24
  also, they also list it as just dangerous as a whole to not just
• 1:26:28
  the insects, but the people educating them to always be
• 1:26:32
  careful of what they use. And I think that was it whilst
• 1:26:37
  being a less memorable story, quite beneficial to educate the
• 1:26:41
  kids or this isn't a main reason.
• 1:26:44
  But can I just say the cat cliffhanger?
• 1:26:46
  Is very amazing. It's great.
• 1:26:49
  Been shot dead. You sure he is dead?
• 1:26:51
  Oh yes. There's nothing but death all
• 1:26:54
  around us. Yes.
• 1:26:56
  What's happening here? You weren't with us, Chesterton,
• 1:26:59
  but every insect we came across was dead.
• 1:27:01
  Yes, Susan and I saw a great many huge dead ants.
• 1:27:05
  Everything else is the same here.
• 1:27:07
  Yes, and we don't know what it was that killed him, but that
• 1:27:10
  man, he's been shot, murdered that.
• 1:27:14
  Would kill insects in a perfectly ordinary garden.
• 1:27:17
  I mean pests one can understand, but surely it's wrong to kill
• 1:27:21
  bees and worms and things, isn't it?
• 1:27:22
  Quite so. Both are vital to the growth of
• 1:27:25
  things. However, we must leave this
• 1:27:27
  little mystery and get back to the ship.
• 1:27:29
  As I said, my dear, it's fortunate for all of us that
• 1:27:32
  everything is dead. One more reason that I will like
• 1:27:46
  it is because it feels like an actual struggle to survive for
• 1:27:51
  them because they're constantly running into scenarios like, Oh
• 1:27:54
  no, we've been shrunk down, how are we going to get out of this?
• 1:27:59
  Oh, no giant cat could eat us. Oh no, Barbara's been struck
• 1:28:04
  down by an by an insect insecticide and whatnot.
• 1:28:07
  Oh, no possibility of getting flushed down the sink.
• 1:28:11
  It's like you can sort of tell. And like specifically, I think
• 1:28:14
  it I think specifically in William Russell's performances,
• 1:28:17
  he very concerned for Barbara and I and I quite like the fact
• 1:28:21
  that this or portraying this is like in a way I could say more
• 1:28:27
  like adult in his theme, because there's a very real possibility
• 1:28:31
  of her dying there. And I really and I really like
• 1:28:36
  to see you that to and it shows that they care for each other at
• 1:28:39
  this point. And obviously doctor and Susan
• 1:28:42
  are also fighting for their lives.
• 1:28:45
  And you get to see that that they're also caring for
• 1:28:48
  everyone. You get to see that this dynamic
• 1:28:51
  that just season ago they all hated each other.
• 1:28:54
  And it's like now they now it's all we need everyone before we
• 1:28:59
  can go. And although to be fair, bit
• 1:29:03
  stupid of them to go exploring and not just immediately go back
• 1:29:05
  in but to Oh well, it's very it's very nice see them care for
• 1:29:10
  each other and try and get out of it alive whilst also we're
• 1:29:13
  actually defeating A villain whilst being about 1 inch tall
• 1:29:16
  by screaming into a telephone. Can you hear me?
• 1:29:22
  It's fucking ridiculous. But yes, I think for those
• 1:29:28
  reasons I shall put it through. Can I go next?
• 1:29:32
  Doctor Who has gone woke. Cancel it immediately.
• 1:29:36
  All this environmentalism. How tedious.
• 1:29:41
  OK, I've done, I've done a Jack Koya on this one of it's a
• 1:29:46
  story. Sorry, Jack.
• 1:29:48
  It's a story I've never thought much of, and I watched it this
• 1:29:51
  week and I really rather enjoyed it.
• 1:29:55
  Lots of reasons actually. I think how is it that they
• 1:30:02
  managed to present a perfectly a beautifully sculptured AN that
• 1:30:08
  moves in this story and they fail spectacularly to do the
• 1:30:12
  same thing? Don't worry in the web planning.
• 1:30:14
  I. Mean it's just baffling.
• 1:30:16
  No, no, but all of the the the the miniaturisation only works
• 1:30:21
  if they execute it properly. Yeah, the series one, it had
• 1:30:25
  tons of ambition in terms of storytelling and modest attempts
• 1:30:31
  at presenting that in a tiny studio in Lime Grove and here
• 1:30:35
  they just go for it. That massive worm, the the
• 1:30:39
  matchbox, the sink set, like you said, I think the blow up body's
• 1:30:43
  genius. The fact that you can actually
• 1:30:45
  have them standing in front of that face.
• 1:30:47
  It's it's just a really clever way of doing it.
• 1:30:49
  So it's the props, it's the sets, that gorgeous shot where
• 1:30:54
  the camera pulls out from the TARDIS in the cobblestones when
• 1:30:58
  the reveal happens and you see the whole of the house.
• 1:31:00
  That model shot, absolutely gorgeous.
• 1:31:04
  I love, I love the opening with the doors opening, the Wooga
• 1:31:08
  Wooga alarm that goes off in the TARDIS, the scanner exploding
• 1:31:13
  the labyrinth again, it's another story with lots of great
• 1:31:16
  mysteries. In the first episode the the
• 1:31:18
  enlarged insects that they come across.
• 1:31:20
  Can you just say, now I think about it, they're opening doors
• 1:31:23
  in Time Vortex system for now, am I correct?
• 1:31:27
  And then several times later on in the show, did you open the
• 1:31:30
  doors in the Time Vortex and get off Scott free?
• 1:31:33
  Well, about those salamander. Salamander doesn't.
• 1:31:36
  Sucked out into the vortex. Well, yeah, but who cares about
• 1:31:39
  salamander anyway? Double Pi mean it brings us back
• 1:31:44
  to the Yeti again, so that's all I care about.
• 1:31:47
  The murder plot is a little bit dull, right?
• 1:31:49
  Those scenes between the two of them are a bit boring.
• 1:31:53
  But to be honest with you, that's not really where the
• 1:31:55
  interest is here. It's about 10% of the story.
• 1:31:59
  It's I like the fact that it's grizzly that someone gets shot,
• 1:32:01
  that you see a body enlarged. I love the nosy old woman at the
• 1:32:06
  phone exchange, the one that would be me going, oh, I think
• 1:32:09
  something's happening. And that house, you know, hang
• 1:32:11
  on, let's just get this one in here and see what's going on.
• 1:32:14
  So, so that part of it's quite fun.
• 1:32:17
  I love the cliffhanger with the hungry cat.
• 1:32:19
  I love the fact that this this skewers the perspective of a
• 1:32:22
  Doctor Who story and all of those normal things just
• 1:32:25
  suddenly become, you know, terrors to face.
• 1:32:29
  Everyone's shouting in the phone receiver.
• 1:32:30
  I think it's the funniest moment of the year.
• 1:32:32
  It's just so absurd that that's one of those moments you really
• 1:32:36
  wish someone don't walk in the room when you're watching Doctor
• 1:32:38
  Who. I love the fact that the climax
• 1:32:42
  of this story is exploding a can of insecticide in someone's
• 1:32:45
  face. I mean, that's vicious, but I
• 1:32:49
  don't like that Barbara's portrayed as being stupid.
• 1:32:52
  I know she's scared and I know she thinks she's going to die,
• 1:32:55
  but they've been around long enough now that she would say,
• 1:32:58
  you know, the Barbara I know would say, this has happened to
• 1:33:00
  me. Please can we try and find a
• 1:33:02
  solution and don't? Forget that she is a qualified
• 1:33:05
  teacher. She's.
• 1:33:07
  Aware history, not not science. I'm pleased it didn't go to
• 1:33:12
  four. If it went to four, it would be
• 1:33:14
  just laborious. Thanks, Ian, for giving us that
• 1:33:16
  4th episode. And I do think the direction
• 1:33:21
  takes a step up actually, when Douglas Canfield comes in in
• 1:33:24
  that last episode. Yeah.
• 1:33:26
  So I'm going to put it through. I think it's it's fun.
• 1:33:29
  I think they execute it really well.
• 1:33:32
  I just think every time we're not with the regulars, it can be
• 1:33:35
  a bit dull, but we're mostly with the regulars.
• 1:33:38
  So it's very fun. Yes, yes, we've done it.
• 1:33:47
  Yes, we've done it better, Doctor.
• 1:33:49
  It's incredible. Let's see.
• 1:33:52
  It's completely vanished. No, no, my dear boy.
• 1:33:56
  No. Look, you see, it hasn't
• 1:34:04
  vanished at all. I'm so first there.
• 1:34:16
  You are doing bad. Oh, I have no idea what you
• 1:34:26
  could taste so good. Well, well, here we are then.
• 1:34:30
  The patient is beginning. To look her usual self again.
• 1:34:34
  Thank you, doctor. Not at all, my dear boy.
• 1:34:36
  Oh, is that your service? Talk to what happened in the
• 1:34:39
  laboratory. I don't remember much after the
• 1:34:41
  explosion. Well, I'm happy to say after
• 1:34:43
  work we didn't have to fire the laboratory, but we did attract
• 1:34:46
  attention. Do you know a policeman came
• 1:34:48
  into that room just as I was about to climb down that pipe?
• 1:34:53
  Now what about us? Can you get us back to normal?
• 1:34:55
  Yes, there's your answer my dear.
• 1:34:58
  Again, Father, is that the seed you bought in with you?
• 1:35:00
  The same seed. I mean, we are back to normal.
• 1:35:03
  Completely my dear. Now before I check up and see
• 1:35:06
  where we are, I suggest you all go and have a good scrap.
• 1:35:10
  So that's two for three. So we shall have a deciding vote
• 1:35:15
  now on whether it goes through. I I'm torn on it.
• 1:35:19
  It, I mean, this is basically almost the invention of the yet
• 1:35:23
  in the loo and Tooting Baxter, because it's seeking to make the
• 1:35:27
  ordinary your, your back garden, the most alien thing on the
• 1:35:31
  planet. And I kind of love that
• 1:35:33
  inversion, that whole idea. Well, Stephen Moffat seemed to
• 1:35:36
  really love that idea as well, and he seemed to take the Mick
• 1:35:39
  outfit for his entire run. Well, he did into the darling.
• 1:35:43
  Yeah. That that's that's basically a
• 1:35:45
  similar thing, meteorizing everything.
• 1:35:47
  But it's but that's science fiction.
• 1:35:50
  So I love that idea. And as Evan said, the design
• 1:35:55
  work is fabulous on it. It's it's Raycus, I think.
• 1:35:59
  Is it Toby again? Yeah, it's Raycusic.
• 1:36:01
  Yeah. Yeah, so remarkable is just the,
• 1:36:05
  the scale, the the telephone, the matchbox, everything, the
• 1:36:09
  attention to detail on it. You know, everything is better
• 1:36:14
  than needs to be. And particularly on ATV show
• 1:36:17
  where you're trying to get this stuff week after week, it's
• 1:36:21
  remarkable, particularly when they've got so many other things
• 1:36:23
  to do. It's you know, it's Doctor Who's
• 1:36:26
  first anti corporate story as well.
• 1:36:28
  You know, Forrester is he's very small time business, but it it's
• 1:36:33
  that ruthless big business thing in the 60s.
• 1:36:36
  It's a silent Spring thing, which was I want to see in the
• 1:36:39
  air then. But it's the insecticides around
• 1:36:41
  obviously. So that's his favorite.
• 1:36:43
  I do think Doctor Who's kind of left wing progressed credentials
• 1:36:47
  maybe get a little overstated at this stage.
• 1:36:50
  I think that really comes over the likes of Malcolm Holt and
• 1:36:54
  Terence later on. But this is definitely looking
• 1:36:57
  to be, you know, it's trying to examine that status quo, which
• 1:37:01
  is kind of, I kind of like on the ambition of it.
• 1:37:06
  But yeah, but the for all, I think the production is decent.
• 1:37:10
  I'm not that keen on moving pimple direction.
• 1:37:12
  I think it's a little ponderous for me in comparison.
• 1:37:17
  But yeah, I I can't help but feel it kind of gets hold by the
• 1:37:21
  script. It's like, yeah, it's it's
• 1:37:24
  Forrester when he shows Smithers the Barrow's body.
• 1:37:26
  So have a look at the body. Oh, he's he's been shot.
• 1:37:30
  What? Yes, obviously he's been shot.
• 1:37:33
  You've shot the fucker. It's so obvious.
• 1:37:38
  Are you just trying to implicate him there?
• 1:37:43
  Yeah. And it it just does move slowly.
• 1:37:46
  I do think yes, the regular stuff is lovely because you and
• 1:37:51
  Ant is Jeffy a cat is terrifying.
• 1:37:53
  It's that's gorgeous. But yeah, it's it's that it's
• 1:37:58
  quite nice having kind of the big story being the little world
• 1:38:01
  and the little story in the big world.
• 1:38:04
  But I I do love as well when they're shouting down the phone,
• 1:38:08
  the fact the plan is bobbins, it doesn't work, but it still gets
• 1:38:13
  them where they want to go. So they kind of win by accident.
• 1:38:15
  I do. I quite like that idea.
• 1:38:19
  They can screw up, but they still win.
• 1:38:22
  But yeah, I, I just can't get over.
• 1:38:25
  I I don't think Louis Marks is a particularly good right to the
• 1:38:30
  doctor whom he's kind of up and down because he's he's he's two
• 1:38:35
  and two for me. I like to I I but yeah, so I I'm
• 1:38:40
  quite on the fence with this one, but I 2.
• 1:38:43
  And two, what's the other one? Is it David Daleks?
• 1:38:50
  I like David Daleks. The other one is Planet of Evil.
• 1:38:52
  Oh. I like planet of evil.
• 1:38:54
  Oh. You like Planet of Evil as well?
• 1:38:59
  Me. Yeah, I'll do.
• 1:39:02
  Don't tell SI that. He probably knows by now.
• 1:39:09
  And yeah, and the cliffhanger into into your big story is
• 1:39:13
  terrible. It's the doctor watching the
• 1:39:16
  bloody monitor frizz. It's what it's it's just so this
• 1:39:22
  all does kind of fall a little clap for me.
• 1:39:25
  So I'm going down the confession box saying 10 hail, hail billies
• 1:39:31
  jump in. I will spin this and make it
• 1:39:34
  interesting. The cliffhanger though, when
• 1:39:37
  they empty the sink, my God that's drama.
• 1:39:40
  Washing your hands is a terrifying thing that's.
• 1:39:42
  Great. Just it's just a just a bin from
• 1:39:49
  from me. Two to go through and one to
• 1:39:53
  bin. Will we get in addition to that?
• 1:39:55
  So how about we have Hadoke up next to say whether he will
• 1:40:00
  finish or whether he will keep it?
• 1:40:02
  Hi I am unsure. I am unsure I I that there is a
• 1:40:10
  lot to like about this. In theory, I mean, and, and in
• 1:40:14
  practice the, the, the giant sets, of course, you know,
• 1:40:17
  having had a previous story which totally fell down on its
• 1:40:19
  direction, this story totally succeeds in terms of its design.
• 1:40:24
  I think the set work is magnificent and there's a very
• 1:40:28
  unflashy, barely featured but hugely impressive giant fly that
• 1:40:35
  we see for a very short amount of time.
• 1:40:38
  That is an extraordinary achievement and I think one of
• 1:40:41
  the the great Doctor Who monsters of the 60s.
• 1:40:44
  Heads move. And that is body.
• 1:40:46
  Moves it's absolutely phenomenal and you know, Doctor Who works
• 1:40:54
  often, I think we, you know, we often herald it for, you know,
• 1:41:00
  juxtapositions of the ordinary and the extraordinary.
• 1:41:03
  And so the idea that we're in a a science lab, which was very
• 1:41:06
  much, you know, bearing in mind the target audience was very
• 1:41:09
  much part of the school classroom.
• 1:41:11
  So the kids were watching it, but they were watching seeing a
• 1:41:14
  thing that they saw every day and a set of things that they
• 1:41:16
  saw every day through this slightly skewed and slightly
• 1:41:21
  different and slightly abstract prism of having our main
• 1:41:26
  characters as, as you know, borrowers within it.
• 1:41:30
  And I think that is a great, you know, they've been trying to do
• 1:41:33
  this story since day one that, you know, they think this this
• 1:41:36
  is this is exactly the sort of story that we want to do.
• 1:41:38
  And then when they finally get round to telling it, they they
• 1:41:40
  do it in a story that nobody ever really remembers and that
• 1:41:43
  they have to cut down by 25 minutes in order to make work.
• 1:41:48
  But but you know, it has I think, you know, it has this
• 1:41:51
  wonderful ecological theme that is so ahead of its time and yet
• 1:41:55
  still very pertinent. Forrester Deforester, more like.
• 1:41:59
  And, you know, I think, I think anything that has that level of
• 1:42:04
  sort of prescience and commitment and and A and a
• 1:42:07
  desire to tackle things, it's not but, but you know, you don't
• 1:42:10
  get the whiff of it being preachy.
• 1:42:12
  In fact, some of the people who who would who call for a return
• 1:42:15
  to the good old days of Doctor Who and think it's woke these
• 1:42:17
  days probably don't, you know, wouldn't even occur to them that
• 1:42:21
  that had the same thing as planet of giants been done
• 1:42:24
  today, they would have been furious with it.
• 1:42:26
  But they they will forgive planet of the the Giants it and
• 1:42:31
  you know I I when when you want a a a scary, terse, unpleasant
• 1:42:36
  baddie. Who better to get than RK Maroon
• 1:42:39
  from Who Framed Roger Rabbit? And and I think Alan Tilvan is
• 1:42:42
  great, but but but the human story is a bit, is a bit dull.
• 1:42:50
  The detective work in it is, is so full of holes.
• 1:42:53
  I'm going to put Pharaoh on his boat because they'll think he's
• 1:42:56
  drowned except for the fucking bullet.
• 1:43:01
  And and I'm sorry, by the way, I've, I've, I've, I've done it
• 1:43:04
  because Joe hasn't actually given his opinion of planet of
• 1:43:08
  giants yet. That was actually me, but I put
• 1:43:10
  my handkerchief over the microphone.
• 1:43:14
  And that was an incredible. Impression of me and and so that
• 1:43:18
  you could you could you can tell the difference between us.
• 1:43:21
  I mean, he could have at least put on a lisp on his essence
• 1:43:24
  because there's no more, there's no more more sibilant in Doctor
• 1:43:27
  Who apart from perhaps the commander in the Ark than than
• 1:43:30
  Mr. Mr. Mr. Farrow. But yeah, it, it rises to its
• 1:43:36
  immense challenges. I think the dead body, the
• 1:43:39
  massive dead face that they all stand in front of the, the, the,
• 1:43:43
  the, the, the, the, the, the dead wildlife which sets up the
• 1:43:47
  mystery. But again, that whole thing is
• 1:43:50
  not the matchbox, the night scented stock, the whole, that
• 1:43:53
  and that set of the garden path with the little TARDIS in it
• 1:43:56
  going up to the whole of the bottom of the house.
• 1:43:58
  These are, these are extraordinary achievements in
• 1:44:00
  some way. And the fact that the the the
• 1:44:03
  good guys do involve themselves in the story of the week, but
• 1:44:08
  they do it without actually ever interacting with any of the
• 1:44:11
  other characters is rather novel and rather and rather jolly.
• 1:44:17
  That cliffhanger with the sink, I mean it, that does commit a
• 1:44:20
  cardinal sin of the Doctor Who very rarely does, where he
• 1:44:24
  leaves the plug out of the sink at the end of episode 2, but at
• 1:44:28
  the beginning of episode 3, he puts it back in because of
• 1:44:31
  course they have to climb out of it.
• 1:44:32
  So it's a very rare Perils of Pauline sort of cheat.
• 1:44:37
  I, I, I don't think it was deliberate.
• 1:44:38
  I think it was probably incompetence that they hadn't
• 1:44:40
  realized or whatever. But anyway, it, it does mean
• 1:44:43
  that if, if you'd been paying attention, that that they, they
• 1:44:47
  have to get out of that through artifice really.
• 1:44:51
  But you know, the Doctor Who turning the everyday into the
• 1:44:54
  threatening Doctor Who looking at the issues of the day and
• 1:44:58
  incorporating them into a straightforward crime adventure.
• 1:45:02
  But it is a little too domestic. I think it's sometimes
• 1:45:05
  domesticity counteracted with strangeness makes Doctor Who.
• 1:45:10
  It's most unsettling. But I think it's a bit too
• 1:45:12
  prosaic. I think it's a bit too literal,
• 1:45:14
  I think. You.
• 1:45:16
  Need it Needed to perhaps be a bit bolder, a bit more odd than
• 1:45:22
  to just go everyone's going to be a bit small in this thing
• 1:45:25
  it's a lovely starting point, but I don't think they go much
• 1:45:28
  beyond that and I think I managed to talk my way into
• 1:45:32
  thinking this is this is really good.
• 1:45:34
  But actually, if you were to sit me down and say so, you can now
• 1:45:37
  watch any Doctor Who story. Planets of Giants would probably
• 1:45:40
  be very near the bottom of what I would choose.
• 1:45:44
  I would choose stories I hate more than this because at least
• 1:45:47
  they, you know, at least they, at least they do something.
• 1:45:51
  Do you know what I mean? At least they slap me about.
• 1:45:53
  Provoke. You.
• 1:45:54
  Yeah, yeah. Whereas I, I, it is, it is
• 1:45:58
  probably, it was one of the earliest ones I got on bootleg.
• 1:46:00
  And so I watched it a lot then, because when you're a kid and
• 1:46:03
  you only have a few, you watch stuff over and over again.
• 1:46:05
  And I think I was desperate to like it and and actually, you
• 1:46:10
  know, and and Barbara's whole thing of I mean, it is possible
• 1:46:13
  to die of embarrassment because of Doctor Who.
• 1:46:15
  But but, but, but what Barbara is doing is essentially is she
• 1:46:20
  she's too ashamed to tell her friends.
• 1:46:21
  And I think looking as it's the sort of thing when you look at
• 1:46:23
  it as a viewer on television, you go, she's being an idiot.
• 1:46:26
  But then again, I know that I've had serious medical symptoms
• 1:46:31
  that I've got. Yeah, but I don't want to what
• 1:46:32
  if I'm wrong? I don't want to go to the
• 1:46:33
  doctors. So I think that does actually
• 1:46:36
  tap into a primal thing of is that we would rather die of him.
• 1:46:40
  We would rather die of a genuine disease than go to the doctor
• 1:46:45
  having mistaken something benign for something apocalyptic.
• 1:46:50
  We'd rather die than be told no, no, no, that's just a cough.
• 1:46:54
  It isn't cancer of the everything.
• 1:46:58
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:46:58
  So I. Wasn't benign, but it was too
• 1:47:02
  embarrassing to go to the doctor.
• 1:47:06
  But I, but I, I decided so that's one of those things that
• 1:47:09
  I, I, I don't think is as silly as it, as it might seem, but it
• 1:47:14
  does because of the surroundings that it's in.
• 1:47:17
  It does seem a bit silly. And you know, in the same way
• 1:47:19
  that the travellers are shouting down the phone and, and wanting
• 1:47:22
  to be heard, the viewer is shouting just fucking tell them
• 1:47:26
  that you touched the poison. But actually the, and I, but the
• 1:47:30
  plot point of, of her growing again and then the, you know,
• 1:47:33
  the massive, the massive bit bit of poisoned just being minuscule
• 1:47:37
  compared to and all that sort of thing.
• 1:47:39
  All that sort of thing is it is an attempt to do something a
• 1:47:42
  bit. So there's lots of sort of
• 1:47:43
  wreathy and stuff in there with the different pitches of the
• 1:47:46
  voice and the, and the, and the exploding of the aerosol and all
• 1:47:49
  that sort of thing. So, so I, you know, I admire its
• 1:47:51
  pluck. I appreciate its ambition, but I
• 1:47:54
  have to be honest and go, do I want to watch this?
• 1:47:58
  And am I entertained when I do? So I you have to go.
• 1:48:02
  I'm probably not. But oh, but, but.
• 1:48:07
  And also because I'm so. Yeah.
• 1:48:10
  So. Oh, yeah.
• 1:48:11
  So I'm going to go Bennett. I'm going to say Bennett.
• 1:48:13
  Oh, just for the suspense. Finally, we're in a 22
• 1:48:16
  situation. So now we have the deciding
• 1:48:20
  vote. With Jack.
• 1:48:21
  OK, rubbing. His hands.
• 1:48:23
  Hello. You know, it's funny we
• 1:48:27
  mentioned can you hear me earlier?
• 1:48:30
  Because, you know, it's almost a good thing that.
• 1:48:33
  But to be fair to Barbara, she might not want to tell the
• 1:48:36
  doctors you've got an awful illness because the doctor might
• 1:48:39
  go, oh, I'm a bit socially awkward, Barbara.
• 1:48:46
  I should say a reassuring thing now, shouldn't I?
• 1:48:50
  Yeah, probably. I'm still quite socially awkward
• 1:48:56
  so I'm just going to subtly walk towards the console and look at
• 1:48:59
  something and then. In a minute.
• 1:49:04
  I'll think of something that I should have said that might have
• 1:49:08
  been helpful. Oh heart, they would definitely
• 1:49:11
  do that. I'm sorry, my dear.
• 1:49:17
  Comment of the night. My my granddaughter said I
• 1:49:26
  wasn't allowed to call it space autism but.
• 1:49:34
  Well done. Yeah, I think this is 1 where?
• 1:49:39
  So a couple of years ago I was watching this with my dad is as
• 1:49:46
  I wanted to do a Doctor Who marathon and he hadn't seen a
• 1:49:49
  lot but William Hartnell stuff. And so we were sitting watching
• 1:49:53
  it and glad to be Throughout the three episodes, we have people
• 1:49:58
  from my family sort of poking their hips in and, and.
• 1:50:02
  Hoarding it I'm. Getting a good I chuckle out and
• 1:50:05
  I think it is an interesting one for non fans to look at as an
• 1:50:10
  example of this is probably what we think of the 1960s weirdness.
• 1:50:16
  Oh, there's one where they get shrunk down and they have to
• 1:50:20
  hide in a matchbox and run away from a giant cat and all that
• 1:50:24
  sort of thing, which I think is is quite fun.
• 1:50:29
  Yeah. It's another one I'm really torn
• 1:50:31
  on. It's one of those where you
• 1:50:33
  almost don't want to do the extracurricular reading because
• 1:50:38
  as soon as you learn your doctor history and you learn about the
• 1:50:45
  truncating of episodes three and four man episode 3, those fade
• 1:50:51
  to blacks. Every single one of them.
• 1:50:53
  They're like, oh God, you can feel the decisions going no one.
• 1:51:00
  So let's do this anyway. We've done this and now let's do
• 1:51:04
  this. Oh, but we're back at the top
• 1:51:05
  this now. What's the alternative, though,
• 1:51:07
  Jack? All right, another episode.
• 1:51:10
  But I've got for people to get more Doctor Who.
• 1:51:13
  I mean, God perish reports. But no, I think I I didn't want
• 1:51:20
  to be left him last because I kind of had no idea what to do
• 1:51:24
  with it. It's I mean, we kind of touched
• 1:51:28
  on a lot of the points that I was going to touch on.
• 1:51:31
  The human story is very, as Toby said, very briefly.
• 1:51:35
  You can, you can almost hear, you know, Verity Lambert or
• 1:51:40
  Sydney Newman or whoever going educate, inform and entertain.
• 1:51:47
  You know, here's what the life cycle of an Ant looks like and
• 1:51:52
  how they take care of it. Here's how you can set off a
• 1:51:56
  pressurised thing to cause it. You know, spray can to explode.
• 1:52:02
  You shouldn't be teaching kids that.
• 1:52:05
  Well, there's worse, there's worse things, but I'm sure a
• 1:52:08
  Doctor Who has taught its children in the.
• 1:52:12
  Past cocktail, Yeah, amongst others.
• 1:52:15
  Don't don't set fire for a pressurized can when you're
• 1:52:20
  around loads of Doctor Who master tapes because you'll
• 1:52:25
  you'll end up losing them all. You know, here's what
• 1:52:29
  insecticides are and you know, you can feel there's the sort of
• 1:52:34
  story that that makers of Doctor Who have probably been planning
• 1:52:39
  for some time and now they've got that experience under their
• 1:52:44
  belts. They can, like we say, the great
• 1:52:46
  women Cusick production design can help actualise something
• 1:52:52
  that 12 months earlier they might have they might have
• 1:52:56
  struggled to properly execute. I love well, both cliffhangers.
• 1:53:02
  Obviously the cat is very amusing.
• 1:53:06
  The giant blown up picture of the cat, although you know, we
• 1:53:10
  we appreciate the model of the ants and things.
• 1:53:14
  I think they probably would been pushing their luck making a
• 1:53:18
  model of the cat. So I suppose the back projection
• 1:53:21
  was probably the next best, next best thing.
• 1:53:24
  I know really like the episode 2 cliffhanger.
• 1:53:28
  I'm, I'm too ignorant to notice the changes between episodes two
• 1:53:33
  and three. I guess the, the shrink is a bit
• 1:53:35
  soapy in episode 3 than it is in episode 2.
• 1:53:40
  But I really like the simplicity of the of the cliffhanger and
• 1:53:44
  how it doesn't have to spell things out for you.
• 1:53:47
  You know, it doesn't have to have the doctor and Susan going,
• 1:53:51
  Oh fucking hell, I think we're about to drown here.
• 1:53:53
  You know, I think it just leaves that image of the shrinker and
• 1:53:58
  and you get the danger in a quite a nice undecided way.
• 1:54:03
  I don't really think the sci-fi cabins of how they become small
• 1:54:09
  is very satisfactory. I wrote down the doors of the
• 1:54:14
  TARDIS opened and the space pressure caused us to reduce.
• 1:54:20
  That's all they make. Up for.
• 1:54:22
  Me. Yeah, yeah, The fluid length or
• 1:54:25
  something, I don't know. And the explanation of how they
• 1:54:31
  move back to size is, I don't know, coming out next week.
• 1:54:38
  Darn. Information in Earth is the 21.
• 1:54:45
  I think the heroism and the togetherness of the top, the
• 1:54:52
  original tallest team is, is what this is really aiming for.
• 1:54:58
  And I think in that element it succeeds.
• 1:55:01
  But the human story is really quite insubstantial once you
• 1:55:08
  start getting into the back half of it.
• 1:55:11
  And I don't like the way it just sort of ends like a police
• 1:55:15
  officer shows up. I guess we'll go to prison.
• 1:55:20
  See you later. You know, unless, you know, when
• 1:55:26
  Ian and Barbara come back at the end of the chase, the earth
• 1:55:31
  hasn't been demolished by the M6.
• 1:55:34
  So I guess we're probably OK. Yeah, I think I don't know.
• 1:55:40
  We've got to go to bed tonight at some point.
• 1:55:44
  Let's let's tip over the edge and say the remarks.
• 1:55:53
  It's a failing grade. Bitch, please. 00.
• 1:55:58
  So is this our first Ben story? It is, yes.
• 1:56:02
  It's our. First stories I've covered with
• 1:56:04
  Jack and that's the first one we've been between.
• 1:56:07
  Excuse me, someone here, Jimmy tried to been fucking Planet of
• 1:56:13
  the Dominics and the fucking Three Doctors and some other
• 1:56:16
  people on this call did not try and do that.
• 1:56:19
  And that's how we ended up with the fucking Carnival of Monster.
• 1:56:25
  Because some people actually tried to say these stories are
• 1:56:28
  actually better than these other stories, and some people
• 1:56:31
  disagree with that. Consider yourself told John
• 1:56:34
  Arnold. Three doctors magnificent and
• 1:56:41
  People of a Certain age. 5 cases of doctrine.
• 1:56:44
  We're gonna end up letting the web planet into round two and
• 1:56:48
  then going, how did the Romans not win some people?
• 1:56:52
  Believe them. Well, to be fair, the web planet
• 1:56:54
  spare stories in the Romans anyway.
• 1:56:56
  Oh, we don't give. A fuck about no.
• 1:57:01
  Bitch, we are about to get into it, so you know.
• 1:57:04
  And if the if all discussion with the web planet is anything
• 1:57:07
  like the story, we might literally never end.
• 1:57:13
  We've got to two left to pick and we've got him.
• 1:57:18
  So it's the two biggest idiots on the call left to pick so, so
• 1:57:25
  well. We've seen both of them pick
• 1:57:27
  enough. But if I had to go for whose
• 1:57:31
  opinion I'd want to hear more, I'd rather hear Joe's opinion
• 1:57:34
  before I'd rather hear my father's scan.
• 1:57:35
  So you can choose. Can what can we do the rescue
• 1:57:43
  please? Oh, absolutely.
• 1:57:47
  I would put this through simply for the moment where the Doctor
• 1:57:51
  calls out Susans name in the TARDIS in episode 1 and and
• 1:57:56
  remembers that she's gone and the look of her on Hartnell's
• 1:57:59
  face. It kills me every single time
• 1:58:02
  and I forget. I forget how subtle and nuanced
• 1:58:07
  the characterisation can be in 62.
• 1:58:10
  It's a beautiful moment. I really like the rescue.
• 1:58:15
  I mostly like it for Hartnell and O'Brien, and I think it's
• 1:58:20
  Hartnell's warmest, the most charming performance that he
• 1:58:25
  gives in his entire rum. She's sort of quite resistant,
• 1:58:30
  isn't she, to him in in all of them.
• 1:58:32
  In episode 2, she's terrified, but he just charms her
• 1:58:38
  completely. Doctor, we were talking about
• 1:58:40
  Vicky, Yes. Do you think that?
• 1:58:42
  Vicky, I can see we've all reached the same decision now.
• 1:58:45
  I suggest we try and get the answer from the child.
• 1:58:49
  Vicky. Vicky, my dear, come in.
• 1:58:55
  But it's huge. And.
• 1:59:01
  The outside is just, well, Vicky, are you going to come
• 1:59:06
  with us or? I'd like to, yes, if you'll have
• 1:59:13
  me. I love the bit recess to where
• 1:59:18
  I've listened to all you've said and I thoroughly understood.
• 1:59:22
  He hasn't patronized her at any point, you know, And it's very
• 1:59:25
  much him welcoming her into their world.
• 1:59:29
  Just warm and gentle and just lovely.
• 1:59:33
  And the lines that he gets as well are just great.
• 1:59:36
  Episode one. Oh, Doctor, the trembling stop.
• 1:59:38
  Oh, my dear, I'm so glad you're feeling better.
• 1:59:43
  And the pit reason the TARDIS. And he goes, what's it?
• 1:59:46
  What if I tell Ian if this was deliberate that we came here?
• 1:59:49
  Oh no, I was asleep, wasn't I? It's just wonderful
• 1:59:53
  characterization. Ian shine at the torch in his
• 1:59:56
  face. He goes, well, it wasn't me.
• 1:59:58
  Was it shot the torch down there?
• 1:59:59
  Hartner was just he's just owned the show now.
• 2:00:02
  He's claimed it totally and and he's just perfect.
• 2:00:07
  I think this is a really great interlude.
• 2:00:09
  It's not too showy, but it's full of great character moments.
• 2:00:12
  I think Christopher Barrys direction of this is.
• 2:00:15
  It's got a lot of mood and atmosphere.
• 2:00:16
  I think the early scenes in The Cave, there's a wonderful shot
• 2:00:20
  when they come out of the TARDIS and the camera sort of swoops
• 2:00:23
  into them whilst someone sort of blowing smoke and stuff.
• 2:00:27
  There's a real attempt to make it look visually interesting.
• 2:00:30
  And the bit at the end where the Doctor confronts Bennett in that
• 2:00:35
  big hall, that smoky hall that looks absolutely beautiful.
• 2:00:41
  Barbara the murderer, Great Thumb.
• 2:00:43
  Sandy Slayer. I mean, if someone came into my
• 2:00:48
  house and murdered my cat, I'm not sure I'll be as forgiving as
• 2:00:51
  Vicky was. But.
• 2:00:53
  There's a big toothy bastard coming towards you.
• 2:00:56
  What? Do you do I think you would nick
• 2:00:57
  their Joe. I think you'd nick their weapon
• 2:00:59
  right off and then give them justice.
• 2:01:02
  Lot of it was Jacqueline Hill that good grief and adore her.
• 2:01:05
  And of course, like a it isn't really a whodunit, is it with
• 2:01:11
  the suspect pool of one. It's more of a how did he do it?
• 2:01:16
  And even that's pretty simple. So I don't think any of that
• 2:01:19
  parts really that important. It's introducing Vicky and it
• 2:01:23
  does it in a very, very engaging way.
• 2:01:27
  I think Maureen O'Brien is instantly likable, and this
• 2:01:32
  might be sacriist to say I think she has better chemistry with
• 2:01:36
  William Hartnell than Caroline Ford did.
• 2:01:39
  And I think their scenes together in Series 2 are some of
• 2:01:45
  Hartnell's best moments. He just, he clearly adores her.
• 2:01:49
  Yeah. So it's, it's not doing anything
• 2:01:52
  massive. It's surrounded by big hitters.
• 2:01:55
  It's not going to be anyone's go to story, but I'm thoroughly
• 2:01:58
  charmed every time I watch the rescue primarily for William
• 2:02:04
  Hartnell, who I just don't think is finer than he is here.
• 2:02:08
  I just adore him. He's the governor, so yeah, I
• 2:02:11
  would put the rescue through. Should I put my argument through
• 2:02:15
  right now? Because I've got I've got the
• 2:02:16
  ideas in my head, so get them in while they're there.
• 2:02:21
  I do like the rescue, I have to admit, but I have very negative
• 2:02:25
  negatives about it. 1 Barbara killing Sandy.
• 2:02:30
  It makes Barbara the utmost worst film in the whole show and
• 2:02:33
  she needed to be dealt with from that second onward.
• 2:02:36
  I was hoping that her time machine in the chase would break
• 2:02:38
  down just so she died for what she did to.
• 2:02:40
  Sadly literally. Vicky was in danger.
• 2:02:45
  After after initial watching, there was a whole justice for
• 2:02:48
  Sandy movement under my ear, mouth and comment.
• 2:02:53
  We we needed justice for Sandy. Sandy deserved to be the
• 2:02:56
  companion more than Barbara did. I was hope I would hope Sandy
• 2:02:59
  would just go and eat Barbara up and I would happily hear his
• 2:03:01
  scream while Sandy did it. Just for what happened to Sandy.
• 2:03:05
  I I need Sandy justice the. Youth of today is unforgiving,
• 2:03:10
  isn't it? Especially to cold hearted
• 2:03:13
  murderers who don't know what they're doing.
• 2:03:16
  I I would be with Vicky there, except I wouldn't be so quick to
• 2:03:20
  trust her because Hartnell just randomly convinced me.
• 2:03:22
  I'd be like, Oh yeah, nevermind, she's OK.
• 2:03:25
  I I would do what happened to Ben and just push her down in
• 2:03:28
  that pit. Another another thing I find is
• 2:03:30
  that I find myself wanting more of this story because it's like
• 2:03:36
  it sets up a lot of interesting things.
• 2:03:39
  I like the coziness of the planet Dido.
• 2:03:41
  It feels like with the little spaceship thing, it feels like
• 2:03:46
  even though, yes, it's a crash site and they're not to they're
• 2:03:51
  willingly, It feels like somewhere that, yeah, I would
• 2:03:55
  happily cozily live there. It looks like a nice cozy
• 2:03:58
  environment, but I want to see more of that world established
• 2:04:01
  because we're also told the Doctor knows that Dido quite
• 2:04:05
  well. And then it's like you barely
• 2:04:07
  even see him explain most that you just see him like tread
• 2:04:11
  through a stay in the TARDIS for and tread through a cave for the
• 2:04:14
  first episode. And then suddenly the second
• 2:04:16
  episode does he actually go anywhere.
• 2:04:18
  And it's like he's only out for a few minutes and then
• 2:04:20
  immediately goes back into The Cave to confront Keely.
• 2:04:23
  And before he gets pushed in and he goes unconscious, then all of
• 2:04:26
  a sudden he's back in the TARDIS.
• 2:04:28
  He's so casual in this one, Eddie, that he goes back in for
• 2:04:31
  a nap, doesn't he? Yeah, I'm going to go and have a
• 2:04:33
  little sleep. I want, I want to learn more
• 2:04:36
  about the civilization. I'm I'm finding it more amazing
• 2:04:40
  that in the main show they haven't returned to it because
• 2:04:43
  it feels like there's a lot to explore.
• 2:04:45
  The fact that it's one of the first times that we find that
• 2:04:48
  he's already familiar with the place we visited.
• 2:04:50
  So I want I want to learn more about their civilization and how
• 2:04:55
  they are peaceful and we're only given the example of O2 guards
• 2:05:02
  and some person trying to impersonate.
• 2:05:05
  A. Dido thingy.
• 2:05:08
  Dead. He's killed them all apart from
• 2:05:10
  2. Well, no, that's on the
• 2:05:12
  spaceship, no. No, on the planet as well, he
• 2:05:16
  says. He went to the reception.
• 2:05:18
  Everybody in the planet, that's one of those two people turning
• 2:05:21
  up. He goes Oh my God, I thought
• 2:05:23
  you're all dead. Oh, I didn't.
• 2:05:26
  I didn't remember that part. But then again, he deserved to
• 2:05:29
  be thrown in that pit with Barbara, too.
• 2:05:31
  They could both be thrown in that pit.
• 2:05:34
  Just leave it. Dr. Ian Vicky.
• 2:05:37
  Yeah. Good childish team there.
• 2:05:39
  And then we wouldn't need to see Barbara in the Romans.
• 2:05:41
  And that would make the Romans go by a lot quicker.
• 2:05:44
  So therefore, it being left of a bad story.
• 2:05:48
  So I blame the rescue for this. But yes.
• 2:05:51
  And then another. Yeah.
• 2:05:54
  And then another thing is I, I feel it's like the ending is a
• 2:05:59
  bit sort of rushed because it's like it's pretty obvious when
• 2:06:04
  you realize, Oh yeah, it's the guy who's been conveniently
• 2:06:07
  lying down. This is impersonating this
• 2:06:10
  really interesting looking creature.
• 2:06:11
  Actually, I really like the costume.
• 2:06:13
  But the reveal comes very suddenly, and then within about
• 2:06:18
  a minute or two of his reveal, he's already dead.
• 2:06:21
  I want to see more of this sort of impersonations.
• 2:06:24
  Like maybe we can have a whole sort of plot line with oh,
• 2:06:29
  Doctor knows this, but nobody else does.
• 2:06:31
  So would the Doctor have to win them over perchance?
• 2:06:35
  Instead of Oh no, gets pushed into a pit instead?
• 2:06:39
  And to just explain later, they're taking so many concepts
• 2:06:44
  here, very interesting concepts, and just not utilizing them.
• 2:06:48
  So I want to see more of the zombies, I want to see more of
• 2:06:51
  Dido, I want to see more of it Bennett like killing people and
• 2:06:55
  whatnot. It's like, I feel it's a story
• 2:06:57
  that would have benefited from less rushing into actually more
• 2:07:01
  depth into it. It was a solid 2 parter but I
• 2:07:05
  just think it could have so much more with it and hang on.
• 2:07:10
  Let me get this through. You're saying this is a really
• 2:07:12
  solid 2 parter, a planet that you find really interesting and
• 2:07:16
  you want more of? But you want to be.
• 2:07:19
  Yeah, I'm going to be good. One, I want more of it because I
• 2:07:23
  feel like if there was more of it, I would have enough to save
• 2:07:26
  it. And two, because nothing can
• 2:07:28
  forgive the crimes that Barbara committed by murdering.
• 2:07:30
  Sanity. OK.
• 2:07:33
  So therefore I'm not just paying the rescue, but I'm bringing
• 2:07:36
  Barbara Rice a companion as well.
• 2:07:38
  She she can get stuck in the bench.
• 2:07:42
  Out. Of all the outrageous things
• 2:07:44
  I've heard you say. She can get bench just for
• 2:07:49
  murdering Sandy. She she has no but good reason
• 2:07:52
  to say it. I hope, I would hope that every
• 2:07:54
  opportunities Dalek should have got her in episode 1 of the
• 2:07:57
  Daleks. At least you've been cancelled
• 2:08:00
  in style already. So well, yes, that's me Benning
• 2:08:05
  it. So anyway, so one save one Ben.
• 2:08:10
  Father, would you care to go next?
• 2:08:15
  This kind of is the most functional Doctor Who story
• 2:08:18
  there is. It just has that one purpose to
• 2:08:22
  get the new companion on board, and obviously it doesn't take up
• 2:08:26
  more space than it needs to in doing that.
• 2:08:30
  I think it's not an original observation.
• 2:08:32
  I don't think it's basically Doctor Who inventing Scooby-doo.
• 2:08:36
  It's, you know, it's Bennett. He would have got away with it
• 2:08:40
  if it wasn't then. Pesky, tired as travellers, A
• 2:08:43
  man in a costume pulls the head, even pulls the head off.
• 2:08:47
  You know, with the reveal with friend Daphne, when you need
• 2:08:50
  them, you've got, you've got way more.
• 2:08:52
  You don't need it. Well, as the doctor says, honey
• 2:08:55
  he's felt. Very true.
• 2:09:01
  I do. Joe's right.
• 2:09:04
  I absolutely do love Hartwell and this, it's that wonderful
• 2:09:07
  card. I I love.
• 2:09:08
  He opens the story by buggering off for a nap.
• 2:09:11
  It's beautiful. It's like, yeah, go on, you go
• 2:09:13
  and do what you want. It's gorgeous.
• 2:09:16
  There's that kind of humanity to his doctor, which just.
• 2:09:21
  I think when we get layered under the myth that we we kind
• 2:09:24
  of lose, it's almost a humanity to it.
• 2:09:27
  And yet he is terrific with Vicky.
• 2:09:31
  But he's part of the problem with this story in that a lot of
• 2:09:35
  this story is basically designed to stop him getting to the
• 2:09:38
  spaceship and showing it, you know, and solving the plot in
• 2:09:41
  one move. He it's kind of outlining an
• 2:09:45
  issue that you're going to have with Doctor Who.
• 2:09:47
  Is the doctor kind of too powerful for the plot?
• 2:09:49
  And it's such a again, it's such a skinny plot that you have to
• 2:09:56
  say, you have to think, is it really, you know, it's too easy
• 2:10:01
  for him. So it's just OK, we'll have him
• 2:10:04
  and Ian run around doing obstacle courses, actually.
• 2:10:09
  And the the other thing I think is right is when Barbara and Ian
• 2:10:13
  get the ship, they're a pair of patronising buggers to Vicky.
• 2:10:16
  I can understand why she get a bit gets better than even
• 2:10:20
  without the dog shooting. But I do look kind of Jack.
• 2:10:25
  Jackie Hill's The reaction of horror when Vicky says she must
• 2:10:28
  be about 550 years old. Never ask a lady her age until
• 2:10:33
  you get that. We do at least get an
• 2:10:36
  explanation for what Ian might have been doing on Barnes Comedy
• 2:10:39
  in the alternative versions. He talks a lot about cocky
• 2:10:42
  licking in this one. So.
• 2:10:44
  So maybe Ian swings both ways. We don't know yet.
• 2:10:49
  I do love that this has the 1st in joke in Joe's history in the
• 2:10:51
  credits. Sidney Wilson.
• 2:10:54
  Ray Barrett as well. But yeah, it is a really kind.
• 2:11:00
  It's charming, but it's really kind of skinny and the doctor is
• 2:11:05
  just too big for this story, I think.
• 2:11:07
  So again, this is a lot to like in it and it's the same with
• 2:11:12
  every store. I think this season there's a
• 2:11:13
  lot to like in all of them, but I'm just kind of edging it
• 2:11:19
  towards the bin. Yeah, hello.
• 2:11:23
  So I mean, if it, if it makes you feeling me better, you know.
• 2:11:30
  Although Barbara does have to shoot Sandy, as is the dictate
• 2:11:35
  of the script, Jacqueline Hill does try her best to miss
• 2:11:40
  because she cannot handle that weapon.
• 2:11:46
  So she does try her best to miss, bless her.
• 2:11:49
  But unfortunately she both had to hit it because that's what's
• 2:11:52
  in the script. So myself and Joe obviously have
• 2:11:58
  talked on hamster about the other David Whitwerty Barter
• 2:12:03
  yeah, edgy perception, which was our first our first meeting.
• 2:12:08
  And we talked a lot in that about David Whitwerty.
• 2:12:12
  Well, as the script, David. So I think when when you first
• 2:12:18
  sort of start getting into doctor fandom and you you
• 2:12:21
  realise that there are creative figures who are here for a
• 2:12:26
  couple of years, You know, when you start piercing together, you
• 2:12:30
  know, David, you know, Terence Dips and then Robert Holmes and
• 2:12:35
  then Andrew Cartmel and, you know, what makes all these
• 2:12:38
  people different? And you start sort of
• 2:12:40
  appreciating the things that that mark out these different
• 2:12:44
  periods of the show. And I think really what the edgy
• 2:12:49
  perception and the rescue. I think I both show him about
• 2:12:53
  David Butts, but you really have to nail to make this show one
• 2:13:00
  that appeals to so many people for so many, you know, 62 years
• 2:13:06
  and count him is their character dynamic.
• 2:13:09
  So I really love the edgy perception, which is why I want
• 2:13:13
  to talk there with Joe for that fractured relationship within
• 2:13:19
  the toddlers team and that ultimate message of, you know,
• 2:13:23
  we have to push forward and we have to.
• 2:13:28
  We might be a reluctant team, but we are one that's, you know,
• 2:13:33
  ultimately we get to understand each other's differences and
• 2:13:36
  we'd be nice sort of sit down between the doctor and Barbara,
• 2:13:40
  which is quite reminiscent, in my opinion, of his nice little
• 2:13:44
  sit down with Vicky and Timer gently persuade her that that
• 2:13:51
  she does want to sort of see their side of the story.
• 2:13:55
  I like Eddie. I also have in the past had some
• 2:14:00
  frustrations with how quickly the resolution of the story is,
• 2:14:06
  is sort of, you know, chops too. But Bennett the exclamation was
• 2:14:11
  a little bit rushed for my life. Kingdom.
• 2:14:14
  I think maybe on an initial viewing the 2 remaining native
• 2:14:22
  sorts them out of the darkness and coming in to take Bennett
• 2:14:26
  down could be in maybe a little bit confusing but for the first
• 2:14:29
  time viewer anyway, I think. But I really do like the sort of
• 2:14:35
  Twilight Zone irony of the rescue ship turning up just just
• 2:14:43
  at the wrong moment, just as well at the right moment,
• 2:14:48
  because obviously we want Vicky to be a part of the show, but
• 2:14:52
  you know, they turn up just after the they needed to show
• 2:14:58
  up. But I like the sort of meta knew
• 2:15:04
  who if it feels like a Stephen Moffat thing to call the story
• 2:15:09
  the rescue and, you know, it turns out actually the rescue
• 2:15:13
  was, you know, Vicky being rescued by the TARDIS crew
• 2:15:17
  rather than rather than being rescued by the rescue ship.
• 2:15:22
  Am I really like how step fast sick he is in her opinion.
• 2:15:27
  She doesn't like immediately turn around and go well, OK, so
• 2:15:31
  I'll join you join you people. You know well into episode 2.
• 2:15:35
  She is really still quite adamant and her sort of
• 2:15:40
  desperate pleas of what the rescue ship will have to come
• 2:15:43
  one day or have to. You know, I think this is a
• 2:15:46
  strong performance from Maureen O'Brien because, you know,
• 2:15:51
  although modern fanned and view on on Susan Carroll and Ford is
• 2:15:57
  obviously a a mixed opinion, shall we say.
• 2:16:00
  You know, that first character to break the equilibrium of the
• 2:16:06
  show and join him as a new cast member is quite a daunting
• 2:16:11
  hurdle. And I think Maureen O'Brien
• 2:16:14
  definitely shows why Vicky can be a character that will be a
• 2:16:18
  nice contrast to the the pre-existing TARDIS team.
• 2:16:22
  And I think, as we've all meant, Jim Hartnell absolutely sells
• 2:16:27
  it, particularly of great Rhyme of Her.
• 2:16:30
  If you like adventure, I can promise you an abundance of it.
• 2:16:33
  And, you know, apart from all that, you can be amongst
• 2:16:36
  friends. You know, I think it's really
• 2:16:38
  short drive him from from Whitaker.
• 2:16:42
  I think of a really nice, really nice year for dialogue.
• 2:16:46
  And I just think that's a really nice moment for this story to
• 2:16:50
  end on. Obviously, as John mentioned,
• 2:16:53
  the amusing children's game show antics because Doctor Who's a
• 2:17:02
  weekly serial and the garbled cliffhanger in here somewhere,
• 2:17:06
  you know, so I don't know, Ian's been thrown off the game show
• 2:17:11
  set. You know, this is 1 where I
• 2:17:14
  mean, I, I don't want to tempt fate and I hope Benjamin Clock
• 2:17:19
  isn't taking this as an instruction, but this is 1 where
• 2:17:23
  I could see it. This is 1 where I could see it
• 2:17:27
  as one individual, one complete installment.
• 2:17:31
  You know, because as we've said, it is such a one track mind
• 2:17:36
  story, but I don't think it needs the two parts.
• 2:17:39
  Obviously the schedules at the time couldn't just decide, well
• 2:17:44
  let's just make this a 45 minute thing, you know.
• 2:17:47
  But I I do think there is one of the stories in this season that
• 2:17:53
  is least reliant on being multiple episodes and it could
• 2:17:59
  just be 1 instalment. But yeah, this is one a bit like
• 2:18:05
  the darker making of Earth. But I have had sort of more
• 2:18:08
  mixed opinions on in the past. But but I think because of the
• 2:18:14
  strength of the Hartner performance and the really quick
• 2:18:21
  way that that Zippy ingratiates herself.
• 2:18:23
  I am going to, you know, even if you have to get over stuff like
• 2:18:30
  Bennett just records messages saying leave me alone.
• 2:18:34
  And apparently Vicky just goes, well, it's it's time to leave
• 2:18:38
  Bennett alone, I guess because he's he's playing the Leave Me
• 2:18:42
  Alone message. But, yeah, Hartnell and Moim
• 2:18:46
  O'Brien in particular. I I love the bit where the
• 2:18:51
  doctor goes up to Bennett's room and goes to talk to Bennett.
• 2:18:54
  And here's the leave me alone, please, Doctor.
• 2:18:59
  Home. He feels.
• 2:19:00
  Well, only one thing to do here. Get the bathroom.
• 2:19:03
  Lamb out. Time to break down the door.
• 2:19:09
  But yeah, I understand. It's pretty Chairman does Mao
• 2:19:13
  stays welcome and I think David Whitaker as one of the key
• 2:19:18
  creative forces in the show at this point of that, Dennis Dumas
• 2:19:24
  sort of coming in as well, does what he can to sort of sort of
• 2:19:28
  get the show moving on. And yeah, I think I'm going to
• 2:19:32
  be positive to him, but it's. Can't come in this.
• 2:19:40
  Yes, I think it's a perfectly reasonable criticism of this to
• 2:19:46
  say that it is sort of slight and unambitious, but it does it
• 2:19:50
  does kind of do everything it sets out to do.
• 2:19:52
  And there's certainly a call for labyrinthine plots and complex
• 2:19:57
  characterization. But there's also room for
• 2:19:59
  something that just sort of chops along and does what it
• 2:20:02
  does. And in a, in a area of the show
• 2:20:05
  where a lot of stories are, you know, rather over long, again,
• 2:20:08
  particularly for those of us used to.
• 2:20:11
  The the speed and brevity of television making and verbal
• 2:20:15
  visual shorthands and things that have come since to have
• 2:20:18
  something that has has fairly humble ambitions but fulfills
• 2:20:24
  all of those with extreme competence.
• 2:20:29
  I think is means that this is a always a thoroughly enjoyable
• 2:20:34
  experience and I, I, I love this TARDIS crew.
• 2:20:39
  Maureen O'Brien is a is a breath of fresh air.
• 2:20:41
  I think she's wonderful and she's a terrific actress.
• 2:20:45
  And I'm so when this season came out on Blu-ray, it was 1.
• 2:20:48
  I, I kind of was not wildly looking forward to, to, to
• 2:20:53
  seeing again because I think as a youngster, I've had Great
• 2:20:57
  Expectations of old Doctor Who. And then when I saw it all, a
• 2:21:00
  lot of it, you know, I found the, the grammar of it meant
• 2:21:03
  that it wasn't as as as exciting or as gritty and grown up as
• 2:21:07
  perhaps I thought or even a sort of mysterious and sort of movie
• 2:21:11
  like as I thought it would be. So, so I found myself a little
• 2:21:14
  bit sort of embarrassed by its quaintness.
• 2:21:16
  And as I got older, as I say, when this was particular, when
• 2:21:19
  this was released on Blur, I found myself charmed by it.
• 2:21:22
  And of course, that's what it's, that's the again, the dynamic of
• 2:21:25
  Doctor Who. That's why it's not a sort of
• 2:21:27
  gritty, edgy series. It's not hard sci-fi.
• 2:21:30
  It it has that humor. It has that charm, and I think
• 2:21:34
  the charm is an important part of it.
• 2:21:36
  And I think this TARDIS team has charms in oodles.
• 2:21:40
  William Hartman is wonderful in this.
• 2:21:42
  That scene that Joe mentioned when he mistakenly calls out to
• 2:21:46
  Susan is just, it's just beautiful and and and
• 2:21:50
  heartbreaking. All of the crew get a decent
• 2:21:54
  slice of the action. The Sandy the sand beast scene
• 2:21:56
  is terribly sad and actually really upsetting and almost
• 2:21:59
  makes you angry. But that's good because it's
• 2:22:01
  supposed to and I, I love the the beauty of that that and they
• 2:22:05
  don't and then they don't feel the need to sort of ladle it on
• 2:22:07
  and go see an ugly, monstrous thing.
• 2:22:10
  Could have been a nice thing. You human privilege and all of
• 2:22:14
  that. It's, it's done purely by the
• 2:22:16
  ACT and the, the reactions of the actresses involved in the
• 2:22:22
  scene is that, you know, Barbara kills what she thinks under any
• 2:22:27
  other circumstance, in any other Doctor Who story is a, is just a
• 2:22:30
  mindless monster that should, should be killed.
• 2:22:33
  And then we we're given the insight that it's Vicky's pet
• 2:22:38
  and that that's a bit of it about, you know, that's a bit of
• 2:22:40
  a subversion of expectation and also something of great
• 2:22:43
  emotional impact to her that she does very, very well.
• 2:22:47
  And you do. And it's it's the same in it's
• 2:22:50
  exactly the same in the bit where Hartnell calls out Susan
• 2:22:53
  is. Nobody says, oh, you miss her,
• 2:22:55
  don't you? They don't spell it out at all.
• 2:22:58
  Barbara just goes, why don't you show me, Doctor?
• 2:23:01
  It's so gorgeous. I love that.
• 2:23:04
  Why don't you? I love that.
• 2:23:05
  Why don't you show me, Doctor? That's so kind and benevolent
• 2:23:08
  and, and you know, and often I think, you know, people mistake
• 2:23:12
  sort of TARDIS dynamics where people are spiky or people are
• 2:23:16
  rude to each other or whatever is somehow being sort of, you
• 2:23:21
  know, amusing or insightful. And actually those sort of
• 2:23:26
  benevolent acts of unspoken kindness I think I find
• 2:23:30
  superbly, supremely charming. I think that and I love
• 2:23:33
  Jacqueline Hill and I love William Russell and I think the
• 2:23:39
  Ka Kilian mask is excellent, the costume and the mask.
• 2:23:43
  And I think Ray Barrett does a very good job of of, of, of, you
• 2:23:48
  know, changing his voice up so that we're not, we don't think
• 2:23:51
  we, you know, we're not, I don't think we think that Bennett is
• 2:23:53
  Caquillian. And yes, lovely and joke in the
• 2:23:56
  credits as well, where, you know, the credits moved at such
• 2:23:59
  a speed that you can help but read them so that you needed to
• 2:24:01
  actually address them in terms of providing some subterfuge
• 2:24:06
  there, lest it give the game away.
• 2:24:08
  I think, you know, you, you suddenly wouldn't need to do
• 2:24:10
  that today. And it is a sign that we're
• 2:24:12
  slowly, you know, going down to cultural waterfall and from,
• 2:24:17
  from, from which we can never climb back up, which is such a
• 2:24:20
  shame. I believe that Ian literally
• 2:24:23
  says cocky lickin now at one point.
• 2:24:25
  Lickin. But.
• 2:24:27
  And that's. The only reason why Joe saves.
• 2:24:29
  The story. No, it's all and I.
• 2:24:32
  Mean Joe you I think you mentioned before a a a story
• 2:24:35
  that had a horrendous death count.
• 2:24:37
  Bennett kills every Bennett kills all of Dido and.
• 2:24:42
  Except worse than the same would era.
• 2:24:44
  This isn't it. Yeah, Dido Ex Machina at the end
• 2:24:46
  he literally commits genocide. Because I'm presuming those
• 2:24:50
  those two that survive at the end were at when they were in
• 2:24:53
  the sauna with you. How did you know?
• 2:24:58
  They came back fine, their entire species have been wiped
• 2:25:00
  out. That's fuck all they were, but.
• 2:25:02
  They'd had a good day, don't worry.
• 2:25:03
  They were. Doing the clocking.
• 2:25:07
  Yeah, Ian knows what he's doing and.
• 2:25:11
  And again, I mean, you know, it's certain other circumstances
• 2:25:14
  I might have found that somewhat unforgivable.
• 2:25:17
  Andrew Allard did my Happy Times in Places podcast on on this and
• 2:25:23
  and he's he's great on script and structure and things like
• 2:25:26
  that. And he made the good point that
• 2:25:28
  it's not actually a whodunit because it never challenges you
• 2:25:30
  to say, oh, who do you think did it?
• 2:25:32
  That's not, that's not what it's doing.
• 2:25:34
  And I have to say, when I discovered this story as a kid,
• 2:25:37
  it did all sorts of things that made me feel clever as a kid for
• 2:25:40
  going, oh, that's how they did it.
• 2:25:41
  So for example, the fact that the rocket is broken up into
• 2:25:44
  pieces, and I know that's a model, but then the set is all
• 2:25:47
  on the angles that the model is broken up on.
• 2:25:49
  You go, oh God, yeah. Because they will have had to
• 2:25:50
  have done that twice. All they're thinking about this,
• 2:25:53
  that Bennett's tape recording is an ingenious thing.
• 2:25:56
  When you're an 8 or a nine year old, you go, oh, because he's
• 2:25:58
  done it. And then, oh, and I love the
• 2:26:01
  fact that. And again, Hartnell never has a
• 2:26:02
  line where he says, I'm not sure what that Bennett's up to.
• 2:26:05
  I'm going to break it through here.
• 2:26:07
  He just he's not, he just gets on with it.
• 2:26:10
  And he's got these wonderful moments where he just sort of
• 2:26:11
  belligerently sort of follows, follows his nose and he has that
• 2:26:16
  great face off with the, with Bennett and that that temple set
• 2:26:21
  as as well as The Cave set has some beautiful dairy dark
• 2:26:24
  lighting. I love the atmosphere in that
• 2:26:25
  cave where you can hear the drip of the water and you've got the,
• 2:26:28
  the, the, the, the very dark inky blacks in comparison to
• 2:26:32
  the, the, the light shining off other things.
• 2:26:33
  And I think that makes a real virtue of black and white.
• 2:26:37
  It's got a literal sort of, you know, cliffhanger ending as
• 2:26:40
  well. I just think it does everything
• 2:26:41
  that it wants to do very well, and it does it does widen up
• 2:26:46
  possibilities for, you know, for further storytelling.
• 2:26:49
  If you if you want to, you know, if you wanted to do a big finish
• 2:26:54
  whole whole series about, you know, all the other people from
• 2:26:57
  Dido, you could and you know, be rather or or what's happening on
• 2:27:01
  that rescue ship that's coming. That's coming.
• 2:27:03
  I think in the book that you know, that those that unseen,
• 2:27:07
  you know, space captain, you know, he could have all sorts of
• 2:27:10
  because when he's going to obviously, is he going to turn
• 2:27:13
  back now that the radio has been destroyed?
• 2:27:14
  Or is he going to turn up and the two Daito guys are going to
• 2:27:17
  have to go? No, you know, sorry, they've
• 2:27:19
  gone, you know, but but whatever their rescue mission is a is a
• 2:27:22
  forlorn one. They are not going to find ever
• 2:27:25
  any of the people that they went for.
• 2:27:26
  And that's rather sort of sad and moving.
• 2:27:28
  Even though the story's not really going there, you can go
• 2:27:32
  there if you want to. It allows you, if you think
• 2:27:34
  about the noises off, to think about all sorts of, you know,
• 2:27:39
  consequences of that if if you so desire.
• 2:27:42
  But within the confines of this very efficient, lean, very well
• 2:27:46
  made, universally well acted, straightforward story, perhaps
• 2:27:53
  maybe too simple. And but at least, you know, the
• 2:27:58
  doctor is sort of involved in the in in the climax, in the
• 2:28:01
  sense that he does at least confront Bennett and he does at
• 2:28:03
  least work it out, even though, you know, he then has to get
• 2:28:06
  advanced upon by two two people who advanced upon to the extent
• 2:28:09
  that he he runs out of floor. But Even so, that could have
• 2:28:13
  looked. I can imagine that directed by
• 2:28:15
  Richard Martin, Christopher Barry kind of makes it work.
• 2:28:20
  And, you know, at least he's not he's not forced off the edge of
• 2:28:22
  the Cliff by some gossipy phone operator going, I think you've
• 2:28:27
  killed all those nice people. From that, don't you come for
• 2:28:30
  the phone operator, All right. So, so it's it's not a story of
• 2:28:37
  great ambitions, but but actually as and if you look at
• 2:28:42
  how companions, the next a few companions are introduced.
• 2:28:46
  Catarina is such a thing, but. Dodo.
• 2:28:48
  I think, I think actually taking the time to just reset it a
• 2:28:51
  little bit and it trusts it's regulars to know that we can.
• 2:28:56
  And I prefer it when Doctor Who and his companions go to a
• 2:28:59
  planet where we meet lots of new people because that's where the
• 2:29:01
  show gets fresh impetus. And I know that's where the,
• 2:29:03
  the, the real sort of danger lies, if you like.
• 2:29:06
  And I, and I think the regular should, should usually be a
• 2:29:09
  conduit for for the telling of other stories.
• 2:29:12
  But I, I enjoy the company of with these ones and I and I and
• 2:29:16
  it's it's certainly a a TARDIS quartet, even though it's 4th
• 2:29:20
  party is only joining this week that that you can sit in and
• 2:29:25
  among and have a have a wonderful time with because I
• 2:29:28
  think they're all lovely. So I would like to keep the
• 2:29:31
  rescue if I may. OK, so that means the rescue has
• 2:29:35
  been put through 2 bends, 3 saves. 11 Tiny thing One tiny
• 2:29:41
  extra thing that I realized when I was watching the rescue was
• 2:29:45
  all that sort of often held criticism that the classic
• 2:29:48
  series didn't have the sort of character development that
• 2:29:51
  people have come to expect in the new series.
• 2:29:56
  In the third story of the first season, you get possibly the
• 2:30:00
  most scathing attack from a companion on the Doctor, that
• 2:30:04
  bit where Barbara's vicious with him in the edge of destruction.
• 2:30:09
  And then skip forward a season, the third story of the second
• 2:30:12
  season, and she's protecting him in the most gentlest of ways.
• 2:30:17
  I mean, they go on a hell of a journey, don't they?
• 2:30:20
  These actors and these characters.
• 2:30:22
  I genuinely love Ian and Barbara.
• 2:30:25
  Well, I I cannot forgive Barbara after her crimes against this
• 2:30:29
  kind. Yes, Yes, I.
• 2:30:32
  Knew I knew we was going to end up with the web planet last I
• 2:30:36
  just. Knew it, yes RCG please.
• 2:30:39
  It Dido spin off instead of sea devil spin off.
• 2:30:42
  I would much rather see more about the people of Dido than.
• 2:30:45
  What the the the war between the Didolian on the left?
• 2:30:49
  And the war. Between the Didolian on the
• 2:30:52
  right but the only two left and they've got really fucking bored
• 2:30:57
  of each other. Anyway, yes, so Father, make
• 2:31:01
  your very limited choice. Oh.
• 2:31:04
  What's left? I just can't decide.
• 2:31:08
  You seem to have something up there like something like a bug
• 2:31:11
  looking. A bug about several.
• 2:31:15
  Yeah, what? He's got a zombie.
• 2:31:18
  Of course I've got a zombie. As as they say, as I suppose
• 2:31:24
  they say. Come on Zombie, let's go party
• 2:31:27
  on 40. Well, the thing about the web
• 2:31:32
  planet, you know, Doctor Who through as experimental theatre,
• 2:31:37
  alien planets via interpretive darts, it's the probably the
• 2:31:44
  story which kind of suffers most from being made for that 405
• 2:31:49
  line era. It's designed especially for
• 2:31:54
  that sense of wonder. The kids are, you know, the, the
• 2:31:57
  picture isn't great. So they are playing with all
• 2:32:01
  this. You know, it's something Peter
• 2:32:04
  Capaldi said about it. He, you know, he watched that
• 2:32:06
  one. He was, I'm going to say 7 or 8
• 2:32:10
  here. He's a childish point.
• 2:32:13
  He won't. Yes.
• 2:32:15
  Weren't we all? Well, he was there, wasn't he?
• 2:32:17
  Because he was little. Tattoos he was absolutely.
• 2:32:21
  He was watching it from two different angles.
• 2:32:26
  Are we talking about the person who has a perfectly accurate
• 2:32:30
  memory of everything whilst he's note taking from the episodes,
• 2:32:33
  therefore cannot be looking at them?
• 2:32:35
  No, we're not talking. We're not talking certain Uber
• 2:32:39
  fans here. No, it's something Peter Capaldi
• 2:32:42
  said was that, you know, when he was 7 or 8, you know, this was a
• 2:32:47
  thing of absolute wonder. This was something that
• 2:32:52
  absolutely can't, you know, captured the imagination.
• 2:32:54
  It's designed to do that. It's the most alien Doctors ever
• 2:32:59
  been, you know, it is that one story that has no other human
• 2:33:04
  characters. I know another one that has no
• 2:33:08
  other human characters. Technically Heaven sent because
• 2:33:11
  technically Clara's only a ghost in that, so therefore no other
• 2:33:16
  human characters suck it. What about the kid at the end?
• 2:33:20
  Gallifrey and. No humanoid, it's the Lib Ed.
• 2:33:25
  Come on, you said human, not humanoid.
• 2:33:28
  Deal with it. Stop trying to stop trying to
• 2:33:31
  move the goal posts. I'm not moving the goal posts.
• 2:33:34
  It's a humanoid thing. Otherwise.
• 2:33:35
  You can say that about a lot of other stories, don't worry.
• 2:33:38
  But this is kind of Doctor Who being done with a real kind of
• 2:33:45
  eye on a sense of wonder. I, I, I love that first episode,
• 2:33:52
  even before we get to Bortis. You know, it's got that lovely
• 2:33:57
  kind of relationship building with the TARDIS crew.
• 2:33:59
  You get Vicky being given that kind of back story that the
• 2:34:03
  domestics, you know, that educational set up, the aspirins
• 2:34:08
  are the equivalent to leeches. That's really lovely bit of
• 2:34:12
  writing. I I absolutely adore that bit.
• 2:34:16
  He's doing that throughout this entire story.
• 2:34:18
  It's there in the book. Or the alien perspective.
• 2:34:22
  Yeah, and this is what the story is all about.
• 2:34:28
  To hop that whole the language, the monotre and the news,
• 2:34:34
  obviously the zombies clicking. I would have given you 500
• 2:34:37
  reasons why I love the word planet, but I wrote to Damien
• 2:34:39
  Zombies, so you know, I'm lucky. That's all you get to be.
• 2:34:57
  Fair, I To be fair, I'd rather hear the Sabi blabber on for
• 2:35:02
  another episode and I'd rather hear any U lot blabber on.
• 2:35:06
  Yeah, it's the, oh, the language they use, you know, the the
• 2:35:10
  tongues of like the, you know, the deed should be sung in the
• 2:35:14
  temple of life. The way that Bill Stratton, I
• 2:35:18
  don't think any writer has kind of thought through that use of
• 2:35:22
  language, the way they speak, the way they're alien think
• 2:35:28
  quite as much as this. He is, He has gone way, way
• 2:35:33
  further than I think most any other thing.
• 2:35:35
  You know, you can see darks as a metaphor.
• 2:35:36
  Nazis is the way you're thinking.
• 2:35:38
  You could understand that. But these creatures are being
• 2:35:42
  given deliberately alien references.
• 2:35:45
  They talk what's, what's his name, the way he talk, the way
• 2:35:51
  they talk as well, the way they use language.
• 2:35:54
  Is it this kind of way of speaking unfamiliar to them?
• 2:35:57
  You know, we are in the the days before there has to be an
• 2:36:00
  explanation of why the TARDIS fruit can understand everything.
• 2:36:04
  So they can play with this absolutely beautifully.
• 2:36:08
  So, yeah, definitely one reason, the sheer alienness of it.
• 2:36:14
  Well, skip past Richard Martin that.
• 2:36:17
  Was all only one reason. Oh yeah, of course it was.
• 2:36:22
  Anyway, I'm prepared to hear your Fraser Gregory levels of
• 2:36:24
  argument for this story now. Oh.
• 2:36:30
  No. No, there is some of the
• 2:36:33
  cliffhangers as well. Of course the first one might
• 2:36:37
  not be filmed. It's a four way cliffhanger.
• 2:36:39
  Everyone at the target school gets their own different
• 2:36:42
  cliffhanger throughout the story.
• 2:36:45
  Again, Bill Stratton is finding what something for all four main
• 2:36:49
  characters to do, even if it's just not with the Animus having
• 2:36:53
  to get some X artist. Whatever.
• 2:36:55
  He is working hard to find every way to keep everyone involved in
• 2:37:01
  the story. And lots.
• 2:37:03
  And it's tough to do even with, you know when you've got space
• 2:37:06
  in this story. Even when your first episode is
• 2:37:10
  exploration, your next and the rest of the episodes are that's
• 2:37:13
  the whole story. But yeah, that's again on the
• 2:37:17
  end. I love the way the Animus voice
• 2:37:19
  is just so calm, so unhurried. It's it's more sinister.
• 2:37:25
  I. Couldn't believe it was a woman
• 2:37:27
  when I found out. That's such a hustling voice,
• 2:37:29
  isn't? It and it's just just it it's
• 2:37:32
  kind of so, so you can't tell that's.
• 2:37:35
  I think that's deliberate. Again, again in in production
• 2:37:40
  choices, the thought that goes into the web planet is
• 2:37:43
  incredible. But yeah.
• 2:37:47
  Well, in the writing, maybe. Yes, absolutely.
• 2:37:50
  In the concept of writing, I I think, I think one of the things
• 2:37:53
  with Dennis Spooner is he doesn't quite have David
• 2:37:56
  Whiskey's notes on what the show can achieve in that studio.
• 2:38:00
  So he maybe commissioned scripts that are wide ambition.
• 2:38:04
  You know you have the Chase like considering so many stalls, you
• 2:38:07
  have this which is trying to realise a completely alien world
• 2:38:14
  and you have Richard Martin behind the Camry you've had.
• 2:38:18
  What was the word used earlier? Incompetent.
• 2:38:21
  Incompetent, clumsy as well. And and I think as well we we
• 2:38:27
  have to absolved Toby of that sin of this being the one Doctor
• 2:38:31
  Who story he has ever recorded over which was a shocker.
• 2:38:36
  How could you do? How could you he untouchable he?
• 2:38:39
  Untouchables. Great film.
• 2:38:45
  He he did to us what Robert De Niro did to someone's head with
• 2:38:49
  a baseball bat. Shocking.
• 2:38:53
  But yeah, I mean, I am about for the ambition of it and I'm told
• 2:38:58
  by people who watch Doctor Who on quite intoxicating
• 2:39:01
  substances, it is one of the best experiences of your life to
• 2:39:05
  watch the web planet. I mean, that's a rite of passage
• 2:39:09
  you don't do in the run of Doctor Who.
• 2:39:11
  Yeah, size partner has no interest in Doctor Who
• 2:39:15
  whatsoever, But he said no, I'm going to watch it through.
• 2:39:18
  He. Got to the web planet and he
• 2:39:21
  went. I'm out.
• 2:39:23
  I'm sorry, life is too short. It it is something you could
• 2:39:27
  literally and you've done, but you know the vastly not let I
• 2:39:31
  haven't mentioned that yet. That's a lovely, kind of cheap,
• 2:39:35
  ingenious way of suggesting that atmosphere.
• 2:39:39
  But these? Guys, dry ice might have been
• 2:39:42
  more effective. More dry, Yeah.
• 2:39:45
  Or you could see you could still.
• 2:39:46
  It was just quite nothing on the blue.
• 2:39:48
  You could see the water coming out from the ground rather than
• 2:39:51
  than looking at whatever patch of ground it was.
• 2:39:55
  But these guys had the ambition to to put something this kind of
• 2:40:03
  alien, this avant-garde out on a Saturday tea time.
• 2:40:07
  And this is the whole one of these is the highest breaded
• 2:40:10
  echo doctrine of. This 13.5 million people.
• 2:40:15
  It's. Really be wrong.
• 2:40:17
  Can they exactly? It's you are putting something
• 2:40:21
  completely avant-garde completely out there, something
• 2:40:24
  quite unlike, I think, anything else that has been made for
• 2:40:27
  television. For a reason.
• 2:40:31
  Yeah. But it's like not barely even
• 2:40:33
  any other Cypher franchises have tried anything similar.
• 2:40:37
  No, nothing, nothing is ambitious and the ones that did
• 2:40:40
  had a bigger budget. So it is, but it's deliberately,
• 2:40:44
  it's deliberately set to these. It's so much of its time.
• 2:40:48
  It's it's Doctor Who's most kind of psychedelic point.
• 2:40:53
  I I just adore it for having the ambition, even if they gave it
• 2:40:58
  to Richard Martin. So I funnily enough, as Eddie
• 2:41:02
  hinted at earlier, I'm going to put the web planet through.
• 2:41:05
  I'm supposed you didn't even point out your shirt you're
• 2:41:07
  wearing. What?
• 2:41:09
  Why are you? Wearing I'm wearing the credit,
• 2:41:15
  the greatest credit in Doctor Who history.
• 2:41:18
  Could I throw Richard Martin a bone, please?
• 2:41:20
  Because I do think there are a couple of moments in the Web
• 2:41:25
  Planet where the vision of what he's going for hits the screen.
• 2:41:32
  It's a rare couple of moments. But when they hit, they sort of
• 2:41:35
  wind you the, the menopter flying in, you know, into like
• 2:41:40
  the atmosphere of the moons and the crags on the wires with that
• 2:41:44
  weird music playing. I can just sort of see, I can
• 2:41:47
  see what he's trying to do. He just doesn't have the skill
• 2:41:51
  or the money to do it. And that the end of Episode 5,
• 2:41:55
  you know, when the doctor and Vicky are covered in that sticky
• 2:41:59
  web it, it's ghoulishly unknowable that moment.
• 2:42:03
  It's like, what the hell is going on?
• 2:42:06
  I think it's you, Toby, that said about the weirdness of 60s
• 2:42:09
  telly. And this would only come out of
• 2:42:11
  the 60s, right? Something as odd as this.
• 2:42:15
  And they go for it on every single level, right?
• 2:42:17
  They're trying. They're trying with the sets.
• 2:42:19
  They're trying with the the costumes of the insects, they're
• 2:42:22
  trying with the sound effects, they're trying with the the
• 2:42:25
  Vaseline on the lens, with that string music that's playing all
• 2:42:28
  the way through. I mean, it's just weird.
• 2:42:31
  This. I kind of like it.
• 2:42:36
  I think it's really inept in many, many ways, I think.
• 2:42:40
  Moran, O'Brien. Have you voluntarily put
• 2:42:43
  yourself through to be the second one to talk?
• 2:42:45
  Well, I mean, I've already started.
• 2:42:47
  I don't usually wait for permission, Ed, If I'm honest,
• 2:42:53
  Maureen O'Brien is perfectly right in the documentary when
• 2:42:55
  she says the ideas in this tale are quite extraordinary.
• 2:43:00
  I think even now they would be quite extraordinary.
• 2:43:02
  That's sort of weird cancerous evil that's gripped the heart of
• 2:43:06
  the planet and turn the native populist evil and dragging the
• 2:43:10
  TARDIS down to its poisonous clutches.
• 2:43:13
  Go read the book. Right, he gets it.
• 2:43:15
  I mean, the book is a bit worthy in places, but it really
• 2:43:18
  captures the imagery even better.
• 2:43:21
  Go read 1001 Nights in Time and Space by Paul Miles and Stephen
• 2:43:27
  Cars. No, I'm plugging a book, so just
• 2:43:29
  come out because that contains a short story that in about 15
• 2:43:35
  pages, captures exactly what Bill Stratton was going for with
• 2:43:40
  the web planet. It's the most.
• 2:43:42
  Fairy. Tale.
• 2:43:43
  Potent imagery. I mean, it's all told from the
• 2:43:45
  point of view of Nemani, that crazy grub that shoves her head
• 2:43:49
  in the wall, plugs up the acid. But it is so moving.
• 2:43:55
  It's beautiful. I like the the metaphors and the
• 2:43:59
  poetry in the language. It must be a temple of light.
• 2:44:02
  The ancient song spinners of our race sang of their beauty.
• 2:44:06
  You know, there's real effort in the dialogue there to present a
• 2:44:10
  vivid alien world. Do you think they are?
• 2:44:13
  Don't. You there's things out there.
• 2:44:18
  Well, to use the term of Earth, I suppose we should call them
• 2:44:22
  insects. Ants.
• 2:44:27
  I've seen a colony of ants eat their way.
• 2:44:29
  Right through a house. That size, they could eat their
• 2:44:32
  way through a mountain. Why are they that big?
• 2:44:36
  Size is only ready to in this ratified atmosphere.
• 2:44:40
  It appears that evolution has chosen that particular form of
• 2:44:43
  life on this planet. Hence.
• 2:44:45
  Yeah, so relentless. Indestructible.
• 2:44:49
  What? Are we going to do?
• 2:44:52
  Have you got any ideas? Where is this voice?
• 2:44:54
  It's this, this, this, this. Queen of the ants, you might
• 2:44:57
  say. If I can only trick her into
• 2:45:01
  neutralizing the section of this area, I want you to try and
• 2:45:05
  track down Barbara. All right?
• 2:45:12
  Did you find out where she was? Where it has something to do
• 2:45:16
  with this crater of needles? And it's another great story for
• 2:45:22
  Hartnell. I don't care if he's covering up
• 2:45:26
  the fact that he can't remember his lines.
• 2:45:29
  He's got mad in episode 1. I mean, what the hell was he on
• 2:45:32
  when he was filming that episode?
• 2:45:34
  Ajax. He roams about those crazy sets,
• 2:45:38
  chuckling and clucking away to himself, screaming into the vast
• 2:45:42
  spaces and taking the piss out of Ian in the I say, Chesterton,
• 2:45:46
  what are you doing fiddling and gaping over there?
• 2:45:48
  Come over here and learn something.
• 2:45:50
  Or was it even better? He goes.
• 2:45:52
  We could have had the remains of a Coal Hill School teacher in
• 2:45:55
  there instead of this wretched, old, ragged old tie.
• 2:45:58
  There's a sense of dignified respect for these people as well
• 2:46:02
  from the first ox that I really, really love.
• 2:46:04
  I like it when he's sort of strolling around the temple set
• 2:46:08
  and, and just commanding the attention.
• 2:46:11
  What's the older Monoptrey called?
• 2:46:13
  I can't remember his name. Yeah.
• 2:46:15
  They're scenes together and, you know, handing over the ring and
• 2:46:18
  the respect that they have for each other.
• 2:46:20
  I I just think this is a great year for Hartnell.
• 2:46:23
  Really, really great. It's it's frequently absolutely
• 2:46:30
  cringe, inducingly terrible. The web.
• 2:46:33
  Planet Lights. Up I love talking to a plastic
• 2:46:36
  tubes communicate with this alien.
• 2:46:38
  Oh, I don't mind that bit. Come along, drop that hair
• 2:46:40
  dryer, whatever it is. No, I don't mind that bit.
• 2:46:43
  The bit that makes me die is the bit where someone's laughing at
• 2:46:47
  the end of a cliffhanger is clearly someone behind the
• 2:46:49
  scenes laughing the Reds off of what's going on.
• 2:46:51
  It's in the episode. I mean, come on there.
• 2:46:54
  I see someone's taking her eye off the ball there.
• 2:46:57
  Seriously, when Sidney Newman went, there's some slapdash work
• 2:47:00
  going on in Doctor Who this year.
• 2:47:02
  He had a good point. But I think it's extraordinary
• 2:47:07
  in some ways as well. And I, I would for once agree
• 2:47:13
  with Fraser Gregory, who I argued with earlier about this
• 2:47:15
  story and that I think the ambition.
• 2:47:17
  You're always arguing with him. It's fun, the ambition.
• 2:47:23
  I think it's worth the cringe to celebrate the ambition.
• 2:47:29
  I think it's it is totally unique, this story, and not one
• 2:47:35
  that you would ever want to put on to anyone that isn't a
• 2:47:38
  hardcore Doctor Who fan. But I'm so pleased it exists.
• 2:47:42
  So I am going to put it through. Yeah.
• 2:47:46
  So already to vote through to this story, might we end up with
• 2:47:50
  yet another unpopular decision with the fandom like this
• 2:47:53
  podcast is notoriously known for?
• 2:47:57
  So the middle of line. Toby, do you want to go next?
• 2:48:01
  Sure. Well, I'll be.
• 2:48:03
  I'll probably tell that I know there.
• 2:48:05
  I come from a time when I remember there was a the top DWB
• 2:48:11
  used to do polls. It was my first introduction to
• 2:48:13
  the idea you could have bad Doctor Who because it would have
• 2:48:15
  the top 10 clangers and the top all time clangers and the all
• 2:48:19
  time classics and the all time classics of Hartnell and the all
• 2:48:24
  time clangers were largely historicals.
• 2:48:26
  I think the the IT was the gunfighters, the Romans and the
• 2:48:29
  massacre, which you believe because nobody had seen it at
• 2:48:33
  this time. There's no home video or
• 2:48:35
  anything, you know, and and the classics of Hartnell were the
• 2:48:41
  the Dalek stories at the Cyberman story and the and the
• 2:48:44
  web planet were the top five. You know, this was this was an
• 2:48:47
  all conquering closet classic when I was a time tot.
• 2:48:51
  And there's those wonderful photographs.
• 2:48:53
  It does make very good photographs, you know, because
• 2:48:55
  the, the individual designs aren't bad, although I do prefer
• 2:49:02
  the Menoptera that we don't see, you know, the rather more cowled
• 2:49:04
  furry ones that they, that they, they had photos of but they
• 2:49:08
  didn't actually use in the end or, or not or.
• 2:49:12
  But, but anyway, let's I, I absolutely agree that this is a
• 2:49:19
  work of great ambition and you have to applaud that.
• 2:49:23
  You cannot. You cannot be too critical of
• 2:49:26
  something that is aiming high. You never want to watch a lazy
• 2:49:32
  erformer or a lazy roduction or something that is just slapdash.
• 2:49:42
  It's an insult to to to the audience.
• 2:49:44
  And Doctor Who so rarely insults the audience because it has to
• 2:49:47
  work very hard to engage the audience because everything's
• 2:49:49
  going against it, because it it's full of ridiculous things
• 2:49:52
  that you have to need to take seriously.
• 2:49:54
  So it wins, needs to win you over with either, you know,
• 2:49:57
  competence, confidence, charm, or the sheer, you know,
• 2:50:02
  engagement of, of ideas that you don't get anywhere else.
• 2:50:06
  So I do applaud the fact that it has, has this guest cast that
• 2:50:10
  features entirely alien creatures.
• 2:50:14
  I, I, I do applaud the attempt to create an alien planet
• 2:50:18
  through set design, which has the, you know, the perspective
• 2:50:21
  that they try to get on it and the, you know, those reflective
• 2:50:24
  filters. I, I, I applaud the idea that
• 2:50:29
  the, that the aliens are sort of echoes of Earth creatures.
• 2:50:32
  You know, that you have a spider, you know, the, the, the
• 2:50:35
  moths, the Menoptera, the, the grubs of the, of the venom
• 2:50:40
  grubs, you know, the, the, the larvae of the Optera and the
• 2:50:42
  ants of the Zabi. This is this is all stuff again,
• 2:50:45
  that that kind of because it's slightly familiar, it's
• 2:50:49
  unfamiliar, familiar, it means it it, it primes the synapses of
• 2:50:53
  young people to, to to get active and to look around them
• 2:50:56
  and all of that. I love that that's that's
• 2:50:58
  wreathian and applaudable. I love the book when I was a
• 2:51:02
  kid. I haven't been back to it
• 2:51:03
  actually, Joe, So I'm I'm surprised you said it's worthy.
• 2:51:06
  I would probably notice that now, but I, you know, I haven't
• 2:51:08
  read it since I was, I shouldn't think, but I absolutely adored
• 2:51:11
  it as a as a youngster and I drew some pictures that had
• 2:51:15
  swarms of menopter of flying. Space, the imagery is.
• 2:51:18
  And I and I genuinely thought that that's what it would look.
• 2:51:22
  Like it sort of lacks a sense of humour of the book, but the
• 2:51:25
  imagery is and. And, and, you know, things like
• 2:51:28
  things like, you know, anemone blocking the blocking the acid
• 2:51:31
  and sacrificing herself. So to do is, is, is quite, you
• 2:51:36
  know, extremely grim and visceral idea.
• 2:51:38
  And when you get to the opera, you get all that wonderful
• 2:51:41
  language of, you know, we must make hole holes in the walls,
• 2:51:44
  mouths in the walls so that they will speak more light.
• 2:51:47
  I mean, this is, there's ambition here and, and, and
• 2:51:50
  intelligence and application. And so I have to, I have to
• 2:51:55
  applaud all of that. That said, I and it's Doctor and
• 2:51:59
  it's Doctor Who but. But.
• 2:52:05
  I know there was a big bark coming.
• 2:52:07
  But I look, I like ice cream and nobody has ever made ice cream
• 2:52:12
  out of shoes, elephant shoes. And if if you did well done,
• 2:52:19
  you've made you've made ice cream out of shoes, elephant
• 2:52:23
  shit and anthrax. But I never want to eat and I
• 2:52:28
  would love I would loved. I love the web planet as a
• 2:52:33
  concept. It's it, I mean, it's probably,
• 2:52:37
  it's probably the Doctor Who story that I go back to the
• 2:52:40
  least. I did watch it the other day and
• 2:52:43
  of course I'm reminded how much I love the regulars.
• 2:52:46
  But they struggle very gamely to, to, to make this work.
• 2:52:51
  But it is, it is actually quite embarrassing in places.
• 2:53:00
  And, and the, the last scene, and they noticed this at the
• 2:53:03
  time, the last scene where Barbara kills the animus is, I
• 2:53:08
  think, untransmittable. I, I mean, I think it is, it is
• 2:53:13
  the televisual grammar of it is so inept.
• 2:53:17
  I, I don't think you, I don't think it's clear what's going on
• 2:53:21
  at all. And there are some great actors
• 2:53:25
  in it. Ian Thompson, who plays the
• 2:53:29
  bizarrely, I, I, I don't know how why he decided to play the
• 2:53:34
  Optera Hetra as a kind of, I think in the discontinuity guy,
• 2:53:38
  I don't there's a sort of Mexican bandit I think of a
• 2:53:41
  better description. How does he say it?
• 2:53:43
  Kazimov floats. Yes, you.
• 2:53:47
  Will die, but but then again, then again, if he'd just spoken
• 2:53:52
  like a person that would have been rather embarrassing too.
• 2:53:56
  So you have to go well, you know he's he's committing to it.
• 2:53:59
  But the bit where he tries to fly at the end.
• 2:54:01
  I mean, God bless him with a flapping his hands while he.
• 2:54:05
  Said. Cardboard hands don't do
• 2:54:06
  anything and Ian Thompson is a magnificent actor.
• 2:54:09
  If you watch your Family at War, he's, he's a regular role in
• 2:54:11
  that. And it's, he gives an absolutely
• 2:54:13
  beautiful performance and he has a, he has a bash.
• 2:54:18
  I mean, I can never. It's what you have to do when
• 2:54:20
  you're making a thing, you have to kind of fully admit to it,
• 2:54:24
  but it doesn't always work. And that's why a lot of you
• 2:54:27
  know, that's not why not everyone can be an actor.
• 2:54:29
  And that's why not all acting comes across well.
• 2:54:31
  And that's why performances sometimes don't work.
• 2:54:34
  And especially when you're being asked a lot of sometimes you
• 2:54:37
  have to commit and it doesn't always work.
• 2:54:39
  And I'm and I'm afraid it doesn't really hear.
• 2:54:41
  I mean, I love the fact that nowhere else in the universe is
• 2:54:44
  there a credit that says insect movement by Russell.
• 2:54:48
  I too have that on a T-shirt. Our.
• 2:54:51
  Banishment has taught us of enemies and weapons, and my
• 2:54:57
  captivity has taught me strategy.
• 2:55:03
  They tore my wings from me, and I felt, as you feel, that all
• 2:55:09
  was lost. But if our gods favour our
• 2:55:13
  survival, we must learn their lesson and use our brains and
• 2:55:18
  not our wings. This.
• 2:55:22
  Earth. Woman we must trust, for she can
• 2:55:26
  show us how to exist without wings, to survive and flourish.
• 2:55:32
  Don't be. I would, yeah.
• 2:55:34
  What's the name of the woman who you know the monopo goes up?
• 2:55:40
  Look at that 10 he's. Clean, Yeah, Yes.
• 2:55:42
  That's an unbelievable performance, that one, isn't it?
• 2:55:45
  Well. Bless her, Yes, although
• 2:55:48
  Propitus isn't actually played by an old man.
• 2:55:50
  He only died this year. Oh wow, that's a nice turn I
• 2:55:54
  think. Yeah, he's very good.
• 2:55:56
  He taught an old university of mine maths or chemistry.
• 2:55:59
  I think he did. He retired to become a teacher
• 2:56:01
  not long after the Web Planet. Jarvis as well.
• 2:56:05
  He, he, he, I've, I've got a letter from Johnny Booth, but a
• 2:56:08
  friend of mine wrote, a friend of mine phoned him up, I think
• 2:56:11
  to could because he's bolder than, than I am.
• 2:56:14
  Oh, I think it might be Paul at Phantom Films actually to, to
• 2:56:17
  get him to come and do a thing. And he said, I'm boiling an egg.
• 2:56:23
  And I've, I, I really want to one day answer the phone to
• 2:56:26
  somebody. I'm boiling an egg.
• 2:56:30
  Next time Thomas Habias call you up just.
• 2:56:32
  Answer with that, yeah. But so, you know, I so I, I know
• 2:56:39
  there's some lovely mirror shots that that old that that Martin
• 2:56:43
  does and some of those film sequences good.
• 2:56:44
  And the the you know, the menopter are, you know, it's a
• 2:56:47
  bold design. I mean, it's just it's a shame
• 2:56:49
  that in episode 2 when that one's wings fall off before they
• 2:56:54
  and then they spend the rest of the scene tripping over them.
• 2:56:56
  But then you've got the horrible bit of when there's RB do cut
• 2:56:59
  off cross stars, wings, you know, there's all that sort of
• 2:57:02
  stuff. It's pretty.
• 2:57:03
  You know this. It's got ideas and it's grim and
• 2:57:06
  it but it, it, but I cannot get over the fact that as you know,
• 2:57:11
  even as the most excitable young person for who all you know,
• 2:57:15
  Doctor Who and old Doctor Who and you know, the archaeology of
• 2:57:22
  Doctor Who was so fascinating. I, I taped over this, you know,
• 2:57:29
  I knew I would be able to get another copy at some point by
• 2:57:32
  this point because things had started to come out on video and
• 2:57:35
  stuff. But but that, that seems to me
• 2:57:38
  that's, that's pushing me pretty far.
• 2:57:41
  And, and it's sort of and it, and it hasn't stood the test of
• 2:57:44
  time. And so whilst I, yeah, I, I love
• 2:57:48
  the fact that it exists. I love the fact that they tried
• 2:57:50
  it, but it wasn't hugely successful then either.
• 2:57:52
  I don't, I think they all, you know, I think they all felt it
• 2:57:54
  had been a it, it did get those. It's not the viewers that tuned
• 2:57:57
  in. It's the viewers that that then
• 2:57:59
  didn't come back. That's, that's, you know, the
• 2:58:02
  barometer really. So I yeah, I, I, I, I could
• 2:58:08
  easily do a good verbal essay on why this is marvelous and why
• 2:58:14
  you should keep it. But I have to be honest.
• 2:58:17
  I go, I would be, I would be lying on a personal level to say
• 2:58:22
  that I want to watch this. It's so badly made.
• 2:58:27
  The cliffhanger is that the cliffhanger would the the
• 2:58:30
  cliffhangers are in. There's the the one where
• 2:58:32
  Barbara and Frost are sort of against the rock and the venom
• 2:58:35
  grubs about to shoot them. They then run away, but the
• 2:58:38
  cliffhanger rolls anyway. They they you know, they cut,
• 2:58:40
  they cut to the cliffhanger when the danger is over.
• 2:58:43
  It's so now you see this I don't think is just inept.
• 2:58:47
  I think in places it's really sloppy.
• 2:58:50
  Now. Maybe it's because they have to
• 2:58:51
  be across so many things, but it is such a bad production, even
• 2:58:58
  though, as I say, lots of individual elements of it are
• 2:59:00
  great. And Hartner with the hair dryer
• 2:59:01
  and that web bit. Yeah.
• 2:59:03
  And I actually think the zombie are quite, quite fun.
• 2:59:05
  Oh, and it's so fucking noisy, you know, again and again and
• 2:59:10
  again. It's it's that comes from a good
• 2:59:12
  place. It comes from an imaginative
• 2:59:14
  place, but but actually having to endure it means that I can
• 2:59:18
  acknowledge that it's I can see why they got to there, but I'm
• 2:59:22
  doesn't make me any of us annoyed that they did.
• 2:59:24
  I mean, there are sounds that are soothing though and are nice
• 2:59:27
  to listen to. Chosen one of those.
• 2:59:59
  Well, and this and this will make you go off the, the
• 3:00:01
  animus's deep voice, Joe, because you know who else?
• 3:00:06
  Catherine Fleming, who played the voice of the Animus, you
• 3:00:08
  know, to whom she gave a deep voice.
• 3:00:13
  She was the person who she was the person who coped, who coaxed
• 3:00:18
  A politician, who who spoke at the normal sort of feminine
• 3:00:22
  pitch. Called Margaret.
• 3:00:24
  Hilden, Margaret. Hilda Thatcher.
• 3:00:26
  To those waiting with baited dress for that favorite media
• 3:00:30
  catch phrase EU turn, I have only one thing to say.
• 3:00:36
  U-turn if you want to. To speak like this, no.
• 3:00:45
  Catherine Fleming was a she was a vocal expert.
• 3:00:48
  That's why she's a voice actress.
• 3:00:49
  But she was a drama school voice actress as well.
• 3:00:51
  But she was also the vocal coach for Margaret Thatcher.
• 3:00:54
  Wow. I mean the the one bit of
• 3:00:58
  direction, the the famous bit of.
• 3:00:59
  Direction The zombie is not for turning.
• 3:01:03
  Well, the zombie running into the camera, I mean.
• 3:01:06
  I just can't believe they didn't cut that bit out.
• 3:01:09
  It literally collides with the. And also but when they have a
• 3:01:14
  venom grub that they've clearly put on a shopping he.
• 3:01:19
  Goes wrong. Oh, and there's one beer.
• 3:01:25
  Sorry, while we're talking about this, where the person is
• 3:01:29
  clearly standing with the venom grub on his back and he's got to
• 3:01:33
  go across the back of the set and he's just barely disguised,
• 3:01:37
  but you can sort of see the man underneath climbing the set.
• 3:01:41
  Oh boy. I've put it in the bin.
• 3:01:43
  OK. So Jack, do you want to go next?
• 3:01:50
  Sure this the thing that this puts me in my mouth.
• 3:01:55
  Obviously we've with the current state of the television
• 3:02:02
  programme, Doctor Who is obviously in the state of flux
• 3:02:05
  right now. But the one thing that we do
• 3:02:09
  know going forward is that they have sort of commissioned this
• 3:02:13
  CB BS thing that we'll be going ahead.
• 3:02:18
  And that kind of made me think, you know, we always say that
• 3:02:21
  Doctor Who is the show that can do anything.
• 3:02:24
  It's one of the sort of poster phrases that we like to use.
• 3:02:28
  But I think the the imagination and the lack of traditional sort
• 3:02:37
  of term conventions inherent to the typical CBeebies programme,
• 3:02:42
  I think something about the web planet could be very good story
• 3:02:48
  there. Bear in mind this is a medium
• 3:02:49
  where we could have, you know, stories with no humanoid
• 3:02:54
  characters. We could have stories with no
• 3:02:56
  dialogue. We could have stories but, you
• 3:02:58
  know, different artistic flavours.
• 3:03:02
  And I think that was the thing that I've on this most recent
• 3:03:05
  watch, but that I kind of thought was that, you know, only
• 3:03:09
  this wasn't on the traditional programme.
• 3:03:15
  Phil Sutton obviously has won an only go, perhaps for a reason,
• 3:03:22
  was famously a World War 2 veteran and was held in Stalag
• 3:03:31
  7, one of the German POW camps. Obviously this story has a lot
• 3:03:39
  of inventive servitude and sort of a labour camp, the plot line
• 3:03:46
  running through it, which I find quite interesting.
• 3:03:49
  Bill Sutton said in an antidote once that he won the benefits of
• 3:03:55
  being in a POW camp was he gained a lot of life experience
• 3:03:59
  and learned how to swear in various different languages.
• 3:04:05
  And sort of watching the web planet, I sort of thought to
• 3:04:07
  myself, man, I wish I knew how to swear in different languages
• 3:04:12
  watching some of this. Oh boy, episode 1, the web
• 3:04:20
  planet, the episode is really good.
• 3:04:23
  I think it's probably one of the most underrated episode ones in
• 3:04:28
  the whole classic series. I think there's, as we've spoken
• 3:04:31
  before, the sort of four way cliffhangle is quite ingenious.
• 3:04:35
  And I think once we get past this all, a few Hartmouth flubs,
• 3:04:42
  I think there's a really nice atmosphere building up.
• 3:04:46
  And, you know, the brief glimpses of bizarrely that we
• 3:04:50
  get, I think they're quite intriguing.
• 3:04:52
  And you, you thought, think to yourself, am I going to be that
• 3:04:57
  person who's going to fall in love with the web planet?
• 3:05:02
  And then you're done. The rest of the episodes.
• 3:05:07
  God, man, oh man, every actor is giving it the all.
• 3:05:14
  I think some of the monopoly and and Opta acting is really
• 3:05:20
  admirable. Obviously we've mentioned the
• 3:05:22
  one who sounds a bit like that'd be Opta leader, who sounds a bit
• 3:05:26
  like Papa Lazaroo, You're you're my wife now, Ian.
• 3:05:36
  But and they're all giving it their best.
• 3:05:39
  Richard Martin once again is better on film.
• 3:05:42
  Even though this is all in the studio, he's still found a way
• 3:05:46
  to be better on film than on the on traditional cameras.
• 3:05:53
  The music is a nice refreshing change of pace.
• 3:05:57
  You know, it's definitely different and ambitious.
• 3:06:03
  There's just way too much of it. I mean, come on, this is 6
• 3:06:08
  episodes. Why?
• 3:06:09
  Why? I mean, we've had fucking planet
• 3:06:13
  giants and there were my most 4 episodes.
• 3:06:16
  There's too much this planet, these charming matchbox
• 3:06:21
  adventures. We've got six weeks of absolute
• 3:06:26
  nightmare bullshit coming up that we've got to get ready for.
• 3:06:31
  Maybe they were trying to anortize the cost, you know?
• 3:06:35
  Yeah, sure. I'm trying.
• 3:06:38
  I'm trying very hard, not as hard as I was trying to stay
• 3:06:42
  awake planet. Can I just admit on initial
• 3:06:47
  viewing of the web planet last year during my marathon, I did
• 3:06:50
  doze off. How with that zombie, it's like
• 3:06:53
  an alarm going off. Oh well, don't.
• 3:06:55
  Don't worry, I had plenty of other stories where I dozed off
• 3:06:58
  during my marathon. I think I dozed off twice during
• 3:07:01
  the Sex Doctor era and I did that in about a week or two.
• 3:07:06
  Outrageous. Well, you have to shut your life
• 3:07:08
  because the colours on his coat are blind, you see and.
• 3:07:11
  That's why I'm getting it for. Christmas at some point, yeah.
• 3:07:17
  No, I just think it kind of put me in mind of the sort of high
• 3:07:23
  fantasy that's more interested with drawing a map and writing
• 3:07:29
  an appendices of what all the different words mean than coming
• 3:07:34
  up with relatable characters and situations.
• 3:07:37
  You know, I kind of thought about the Dark Crystal, which
• 3:07:42
  comes out too many years after this.
• 3:07:44
  No, no humanoid characters in that either.
• 3:07:48
  And obviously, you know, millions of pounds in the budget
• 3:07:52
  and the artistic, you know, stylings of Kim Hemson and Frank
• 3:07:58
  Oz, perhaps more accomplished artists, Martin and the
• 3:08:04
  collective behind the Web Planet.
• 3:08:07
  But, yeah, I mean, Dennis Dinner said that he thought this was a
• 3:08:16
  parable about socialism. I don't.
• 3:08:20
  I mean, it's got far be it for me to critique Dennis what
• 3:08:24
  Dennis thing is aiming to do, but I don't get that.
• 3:08:28
  I don't know why. Well, we now know that, yeah,
• 3:08:31
  this is Margaret Thatcher. So.
• 3:08:34
  Yeah. So therefore my father has now
• 3:08:37
  taken back his five star rating and given it half a *.
• 3:08:41
  Have you, John? Don't worry, I've got a half a
• 3:08:45
  star rating in a substitute here with.
• 3:08:50
  But no, I it's yeah. I mean, I understand the
• 3:08:54
  ambition and I understand, you know, things have got to be
• 3:08:59
  done, mistakes have got to be made in order to progress the
• 3:09:02
  show. You know, it didn't get 62 years
• 3:09:07
  without trying new things. I just think I've got to be
• 3:09:11
  honest and say this doesn't work for me.
• 3:09:15
  I'm a bit bored and the noises are annoying and I just sort of
• 3:09:21
  want it to stop eventually. Benjamin Crook, if we hadn't put
• 3:09:27
  you off earlier, you know, if you want to hack your scissors
• 3:09:30
  to say it's a shame that this mere Vaseline on the limbs will
• 3:09:38
  be incredibly difficult for you to cut this into something, but
• 3:09:43
  it could be reasonably viewable. But you might as well give it a
• 3:09:48
  go. I I like the ending note and the
• 3:09:52
  idea of the, you know, creatures shearing off the TARDIS as it as
• 3:09:56
  it disappears and everyone to solve, you know, separating into
• 3:10:01
  the darkness and wanting to forget that this ever happened.
• 3:10:06
  But unfortunately, I can't. Yeah, I'm going to matter.
• 3:10:11
  Join Toby and saying no thank you to be A and Flats ice cream
• 3:10:17
  and then no thank you to the Wet Planet.
• 3:10:20
  That's two bins and two Keats. I'm left for the deciding vote.
• 3:10:27
  Do I want to take the piss out with my father or do I want to?
• 3:10:30
  Take no come on, do a personal choice.
• 3:10:33
  Make it nothing to do with your father.
• 3:10:37
  I want to be fair, it would be funny if I did make it about my
• 3:10:39
  father, but I can't think. I can't think of any reasons off
• 3:10:43
  the top of my head that I would been it right now.
• 3:10:44
  So I will have the deciding vote and keep it mainly because of,
• 3:10:50
  well, you're viewing it from the point of view as you're all
• 3:10:53
  adult. The only reason that Joe and my
• 3:10:55
  father like it is because they have not mentally aged past
• 3:10:58
  adulthood yet. That's.
• 3:10:59
  Very true. That's true, you're not wrong.
• 3:11:02
  Therefore they are still they are still blown away by the
• 3:11:06
  wonders if they're childlike imaginations.
• 3:11:09
  And I have to say I feel quite the same when I watch.
• 3:11:12
  It is like a whole planet built in studio and Doctor Who doesn't
• 3:11:17
  often go in depth that into planets and like build on them.
• 3:11:22
  It's like usually they're just there's a setting for sudden
• 3:11:24
  traffic, but like no, actually builds the planet up.
• 3:11:28
  It has all these locations like the crater of needles, the
• 3:11:30
  animus place, like all the lakes.
• 3:11:32
  It's like and all the moons and whatnot and Noctra armies
• 3:11:36
  coming, you really got you've really had got that world
• 3:11:40
  building there. And that world building is
• 3:11:42
  something that I would love to see more in the main show
• 3:11:44
  because you only get to the world building of the planets
• 3:11:49
  with like different cities and whatnot on stuff like Gallifrey.
• 3:11:52
  It's like you do not get to that sort of world building on Doctor
• 3:11:56
  Who very often, but when they do it is amazing and ABS absolutely
• 3:12:02
  wonderful to see and then. It's what you wanted from the
• 3:12:05
  rescue, wasn't it? It's to see more of the world,
• 3:12:07
  to see the people. That's what I wanted as well, to
• 3:12:11
  see more of it, but I can't see more any of it mustered on the
• 3:12:17
  screen however it is. But yes, then another reason I
• 3:12:23
  should go and say which is yes, yes, again, they're very
• 3:12:26
  ambitious and cut out all other humanoid creatures.
• 3:12:30
  And I really like the idea of giant ants walking about, giant
• 3:12:36
  moths, butterflies, whatever flying about.
• 3:12:38
  And even if it there are some very obvious flubs and things
• 3:12:43
  that probably should have been cut, it's still so amazing.
• 3:12:45
  Just see an entire alien civilization and just see how
• 3:12:51
  they interact with no other humanoid life forms and how they
• 3:12:54
  get on with their day-to-day life with their different types
• 3:12:58
  of bodies in comparison to the average humanoid planet we tend
• 3:13:01
  to see in Doctor Who. Doctor Who, we just see, oh,
• 3:13:05
  almost every planet has at least one humanoid species on it.
• 3:13:08
  But no, with this one, it's all different weird kinds of shapes
• 3:13:12
  of creatures. And that is something that I
• 3:13:15
  would love to see more of it. I would not love to see more of
• 3:13:18
  it with our current term CGI creatures, but I'd I'd love to
• 3:13:22
  just see like more of those sorts of costumes of creatures
• 3:13:26
  that look unusual. I know this I'll be costumes for
• 3:13:29
  a pain for the people who were in them, but and probably very
• 3:13:33
  much damaged their posture for life.
• 3:13:35
  But I think it was very much worth it and I'd absolutely
• 3:13:39
  adore seeing like just go for more alien civilizations like
• 3:13:45
  that. So it was.
• 3:13:47
  Super practical costumes. Yes, practical costumes like for
• 3:13:50
  example, like another sort of I think insect like species just
• 3:13:56
  works the whole in general for doctors.
• 3:13:58
  I really like the Macra and they work well as like crap.
• 3:14:01
  I know they're not insects, but it's like creatures like that.
• 3:14:05
  Just I found. Humanoid.
• 3:14:07
  Kind of. Giant insects is generally a win
• 3:14:11
  for Doctor Who, isn't it? Manners, Spiders, Worms.
• 3:14:15
  Flies and and by non humanoid creatures I do not mean a black
• 3:14:21
  Egyptian dog sitting on top of police boxes.
• 3:14:24
  Please don't go there. As much as much as I love the
• 3:14:27
  Suitex stories, no matter what, I will not go there because
• 3:14:32
  frankly I do think there was a bit of an injustice with that
• 3:14:35
  despite how excited I was. A genuine question though, Ed.
• 3:14:38
  Yeah, because obviously you are by far the youngest person.
• 3:14:42
  It does not the does the production value of this.
• 3:14:45
  Yeah, the execution of it and the pace of it.
• 3:14:49
  Does none of those things bother you?
• 3:14:51
  Well, it's the pacing. It's a what consider when I was
• 3:14:55
  initially watching it, when I've been re watching it now we've
• 3:14:57
  been re watching it with the rest of the season.
• 3:15:00
  So I am more adapted to to the 60s pace.
• 3:15:04
  It's like I find myself when we're classical, when I'm like
• 3:15:07
  watching a random story. It was like, for example, say,
• 3:15:12
  say I was chucked into something like I know a mid 80s story,
• 3:15:16
  like just go like frontiers, for example.
• 3:15:22
  It's like chucked in with that. It's like I think I I think I
• 3:15:27
  wouldn't click with it to too well, considering it's like the
• 3:15:31
  pace is just so different from what my last thing will say.
• 3:15:35
  For example, if my last viewing was in a modern episode, like
• 3:15:39
  let's go with the in quiet dead or something.
• 3:15:42
  It's like they're very different to styles of storytelling.
• 3:15:45
  So I'm so when I'm immersed in it, like watching it from Planet
• 3:15:50
  giants it we skipped Dark Invasion because we'd watched
• 3:15:53
  he'd watched it recently for another podcast and the Rescue
• 3:15:57
  Roman to Web planet. Watching it all in order give me
• 3:16:01
  the immersion. So I'm adapted to that pace
• 3:16:03
  whilst I'm watching it. So I so I enjoy watching stuff
• 3:16:07
  whilst I'm in that sort of pace. You give me hope for the youth
• 3:16:12
  you know. Yes, and last time and last time
• 3:16:15
  someone said that he's very hopeful.
• 3:16:18
  I called him the hungriest and cold blood the best.
• 3:16:20
  I learned story and got the middle finger so.
• 3:16:24
  Deservedly. He's not wrong.
• 3:16:26
  I mean, this might be slow, but it ain't as slow as, say, the
• 3:16:29
  Abominable Snide Man, is it? That's deadly slow.
• 3:16:32
  Oh fuck off. Not so nice when it's on the
• 3:16:38
  other foot, is it? Guy here disagrees.
• 3:16:43
  Oh, the. I love the abominable snowman.
• 3:16:46
  Yeah, so do I, but he really loves it.
• 3:16:47
  I just thought I'd give him a taste of his own medicine.
• 3:16:51
  Good. Are you keeping this one?
• 3:16:52
  I'm not entirely sure you are anyway.
• 3:16:55
  Back-to-back to the topic. But yes, I will be keeping you
• 3:16:59
  as peasants. You have worked quite well.
• 3:17:02
  Thank you. You're welcome, but Oh well.
• 3:17:04
  Yes, and back to weapons. But yes.
• 3:17:08
  And whilst it the pacing may be an issue and yeah, the pacing I
• 3:17:13
  think is one of its weaker aspects.
• 3:17:15
  But yeah, overall, again, I just, I just like to put myself
• 3:17:22
  off as a fact that I'm obviously younger 21st century audience
• 3:17:26
  and I'm watching something that's not quite like anything I
• 3:17:30
  even see on TV nowadays. So you've seen those slopes and
• 3:17:33
  those Star Wars series are? Yeah, bloody hell, I'd.
• 3:17:37
  Rather have ludicrously accented moving insects than boring
• 3:17:42
  people in cloaks wanging on about law on sand.
• 3:17:47
  Fuck yes. Don't watch The Mandalorian
• 3:17:49
  then, all right? I don't.
• 3:17:51
  I don't mind the. Invasion of time.
• 3:17:54
  This is not this is not a Star Wars commentary podcast.
• 3:17:58
  It. Is a great description of the
• 3:18:00
  invasion of time. What a good story.
• 3:18:04
  No people and cloaks on sand wanging on about law.
• 3:18:09
  A good story though anyway. Anyway.
• 3:18:12
  But yes, I would like to imagine myself if I was like 8 years old
• 3:18:18
  or ever in the possession of a child in 1965 or whenever it was
• 3:18:24
  just like sitting down and watching that and just like
• 3:18:28
  being amazed by the fact that they can take me off to a whole
• 3:18:31
  alien world where nothing feels familiar.
• 3:18:33
  But at the same time it again, as was said, feels familiar
• 3:18:37
  because of the fact it's insects, the.
• 3:18:40
  Magic of Doctor Who. It's, I think in a way it's
• 3:18:44
  there's nothing that screams like more magic of Doctor Who
• 3:18:47
  than that story. And it's like, I'd just love to
• 3:18:49
  have been immersed at watching that when it came out.
• 3:18:53
  Yes, for all those reasons I'm going to put it through and that
• 3:18:57
  we have it another story through and I believe only one bend it
• 3:19:03
  with Planet of Giant. I thought it was going to be
• 3:19:07
  more mixed than that, but then I've been very positive.
• 3:19:11
  Well, we all know that Toby, bless him, has had problems with
• 3:19:15
  the format of the show and the way these last rounds go.
• 3:19:19
  So one or two what I've done, I've allocated a random number
• 3:19:24
  to every single story that has gone through here.
• 3:19:29
  So what I'm going to get Toby to do is pick the random number one
• 3:19:33
  to four, so he will decide what the battles are.
• 3:19:39
  It's still going to be two ridiculous stories together.
• 3:19:42
  OK, so I assume it's numbers between 1:00 and 4:00.
• 3:19:46
  It's numbers between 1:00 and 4:00, yes.
• 3:19:49
  So can't music a go go? Joe, it's going, don't worry,
• 3:19:52
  it's already going. That's.
• 3:19:53
  Right. Let's have numbers 2 and 3.
• 3:19:56
  Numbers two and three, we have the web planet against the
• 3:20:00
  Romans. Easy, I'm keeping the Romans.
• 3:20:10
  Very easy for me keeping the web planet because Romans is utter
• 3:20:13
  bollocks. Oh, I love the web planet.
• 3:20:21
  I love the ambition. You don't have the Romans rated
• 3:20:24
  five stars on Letterbox. Oh, come on.
• 3:20:28
  Come on, you know the Romans, I'd rather spend some time in
• 3:20:33
  that, you know, a month in that Roman villa within a Barbara
• 3:20:37
  like they've been shagging wine with.
• 3:20:41
  Even with Nero, for God's sake. You'd rather get poisoned and
• 3:20:44
  chased by someone who's very pedophilic.
• 3:20:47
  Whatever. Absolutely.
• 3:20:50
  So yeah, it's the Romans. It's the Romans.
• 3:20:54
  Hey, and what's Berman's? Yeah, what's Berner's choice?
• 3:21:00
  Bernard, do you want the Romans or the web planet?
• 3:21:04
  If give me a high 5. If you want the Romans High 5.
• 3:21:08
  Or you can't. No, he wants.
• 3:21:14
  No, he wants the Romans. Please.
• 3:21:18
  I think he's indeterminate really.
• 3:21:22
  It just was a cuddle. I think he chosen the web
• 3:21:24
  planet. Hey.
• 3:21:27
  What's the romance? What would you have gone for,
• 3:21:31
  Jack? I think his vote for the web
• 3:21:33
  planet should count for three votes just because he's the dog.
• 3:21:37
  Don't be a sore loser. Ready.
• 3:21:41
  Well, yeah, I think between the four directors, Christopher,
• 3:21:45
  Barry, Richard and Martin, I think Christopher and Barry are
• 3:21:49
  my favorite. We.
• 3:21:51
  Shall go for the moment. Oh.
• 3:21:58
  So we now have numbers 41 and 3 left.
• 3:22:03
  And we know what 3 is. We know what 3 is.
• 3:22:05
  Do you want four and one Toby or do you want?
• 3:22:07
  Yeah, do 1:00 and 4:00 please. One and four, we have obviously
• 3:22:09
  the dark invasion of Earth and the rescue.
• 3:22:13
  Oh, the rescue for me, please, because I it's so charming.
• 3:22:20
  It's so charming. And the dark invasion of Earth.
• 3:22:24
  Oh, it can be a bit of a chore at times.
• 3:22:26
  Plus, I don't know what's going on all the time.
• 3:22:30
  The script is very clear, but the camera is not.
• 3:22:37
  About it? Your choice.
• 3:22:40
  Oh. I mean, the documentation, it
• 3:22:42
  does open up the show so much. It's tough.
• 3:22:46
  And there's obviously, as I've said, there's that first kind of
• 3:22:50
  pivotal scene, which is one of those that everyone remembers
• 3:22:53
  about Doctor. You know, it's so good.
• 3:22:54
  They nick it for the start of the Five Doctors.
• 3:22:57
  How much I've been. The rest of it, I do enjoy it
• 3:23:00
  and I know which way Eddie's going on this, and he won't be
• 3:23:03
  going for just Sandy. I'm just going to go for the
• 3:23:08
  drama. I'm going to be a bitch and I'm,
• 3:23:09
  yeah, I'm a bitch for the drama. So Dalek Invasion of Earth.
• 3:23:15
  What are you assuming? I was going to vote the rescue.
• 3:23:19
  Nope, I was assuming exactly the opposite just for Sandy baby go
• 3:23:23
  up. Well, seeing as we're currently
• 3:23:32
  in this situation and you have presumed my vote before I have
• 3:23:35
  cast it, I deny you because the dark invasion verse lacks
• 3:23:40
  wanting that the rescue doesn't have.
• 3:23:42
  And the dark invasion verse does not have Sandy the sand beast in
• 3:23:45
  it at all. So therefore I will put to
• 3:23:47
  rescue through over that even if there are heinous crimes
• 3:23:51
  committed or. 2 ones the rescue. Man, if the rescue bests the
• 3:23:56
  Dalek invasion of Earth, that is the most strictly come hamster
• 3:24:00
  thing that couldn't possibly happen, no.
• 3:24:03
  The most tricks to come out and think could possibly happen is.
• 3:24:08
  Unfortunately, you were all very wrong.
• 3:24:11
  Jack. What?
• 3:24:14
  Don't come on say exactly the same thing.
• 3:24:16
  I've seen the previous man about before directly.
• 3:24:24
  Yeah, with Christopher and Barry again.
• 3:24:27
  You know, I think the just the clarity of of purpose and you
• 3:24:32
  know what the story is setting out to do.
• 3:24:34
  I think the rescue accomplishes it better than Dalmic amazing
• 3:24:38
  Earth does. Yeah.
• 3:24:40
  Richard Martin's Fallen, both of his stories, But Toby, what
• 3:24:43
  would you have gone for? Yeah, I mean, I've I've had fun
• 3:24:46
  discussing and and and thinking about the the the positive
• 3:24:49
  aspects of the Dalmic amazing Earth, but and the rescue
• 3:24:53
  doesn't have anything in it that makes me go for fucks sakes.
• 3:24:56
  And the Dalek at base of Earth has a lot of those things.
• 3:24:59
  So I would save the rescue. Oh, I don't know that we're down
• 3:25:05
  to the double cassette box. Yeah.
• 3:25:09
  Rescue in the rain. By common consensus, the
• 3:25:12
  highlight of the season, that one boxer which I did love.
• 3:25:14
  When I I've got there, I've got, so we're down.
• 3:25:18
  I'm sure you'll all have common sense when we all vote for the
• 3:25:21
  rescue to win. So that's your, yeah.
• 3:25:26
  Because I would rather sit through the rescue, I get one
• 3:25:31
  thing the Romans doesn't have is Sandy the sand.
• 3:25:35
  And one and one thing that the Romans has is them trying to
• 3:25:38
  make Barbara pay for her heinous crimes committed in the rescue.
• 3:25:42
  So therefore. She pays for her crimes in the
• 3:25:44
  Romans. All right.
• 3:25:45
  Trust. Me.
• 3:25:47
  As you're not getting a sand piece for Christmas, sorry.
• 3:25:51
  I would like to choose. I would like to choose the
• 3:25:55
  Romans just for Hartnell's delivery of the Lion.
• 3:26:01
  I just want to chat with Emperor Nero, but he seems to be rather
• 3:26:04
  busy, walks off hard. All about his comic delivery is
• 3:26:10
  sublime. It's so great.
• 3:26:13
  The Romans, Yeah, I would keep the Romans.
• 3:26:15
  Chit. Sorry, we did say we'd be here
• 3:26:20
  earlier in the episode, Ed. Who's next?
• 3:26:25
  Ed? You.
• 3:26:29
  Well, I, I just. Yeah, like I said, I'd, I'd love
• 3:26:33
  spending time of, of where you want to spend time.
• 3:26:35
  Would you rather spend time in the world where everyone's been
• 3:26:38
  off? Where there's a wrecked
• 3:26:39
  spaceship? That's it.
• 3:26:41
  Where it's a kids obstacle, a kids playground.
• 3:26:45
  I've got to go, I've got to go. I mean, heart not playing that
• 3:26:49
  liar. The way he just plugs those
• 3:26:51
  strings back, that cables. Oh, it's just so many beautiful.
• 3:26:57
  Comments. Frankly, I think I would rather
• 3:26:58
  spend time on the planet where everyone's been off, because at
• 3:27:00
  least I would have Sandy as Sandy.
• 3:27:01
  So Barbara comes along and kills him.
• 3:27:03
  And, frankly, because Jackie Hill is so good.
• 3:27:07
  Oh yes, I'm sure it'll be a roaring success job.
• 3:27:12
  Exactly. So yes, Romans for me.
• 3:27:16
  I think you know the way this is going.
• 3:27:18
  Yeah, I know where this is. Going I'd happily see that
• 3:27:23
  either of these with I mean, I've been happy to hear
• 3:27:25
  everybody talk about all the stories tonight.
• 3:27:28
  I was expecting it to be slim pickings and and actually the
• 3:27:32
  the lovely thing is to hear so many good things about
• 3:27:34
  everything. Isn't that too wonderful?
• 3:27:37
  But I will choose the Romans on this occasion.
• 3:27:41
  And Jack, even though the decision now no longer matches,
• 3:27:44
  what would you have chosen? Well, out of the four directors
• 3:27:48
  in this Christopher Barry, Christopher Barry, No, I I did
• 3:27:56
  kind of get the name away with beginning by saying I think that
• 3:27:59
  the Romans might be a possibly my favorite William Hartwell
• 3:28:03
  story of them all. And I don't really think my
• 3:28:06
  opinions are changed over the point of this recording, you
• 3:28:11
  know? It has been 4 hours.
• 3:28:13
  It might have done. Yeah, exactly.
• 3:28:15
  You know, as a citizen of the citizen of the planet died.
• 3:28:22
  Oh, you know, I won't go down with this ship.
• 3:28:28
  Oh. There we go.
• 3:28:30
  But yes, I I shall say vemi vivi vici, I came, I saw, I got my
• 3:28:36
  favorite story to win. I'm sure you can hear you can
• 3:28:47
  play better than that. The answer is, of course, is not
• 3:28:59
  to be caught playing it. What happened, young lady?
• 3:29:42
  Why did you have to come in and interrupt just as I got him all
• 3:29:45
  softened up and ready for the old one too.
• 3:29:48
  So yet again, Straight Cook and hamster chooses the wrong
• 3:29:51
  winner. The right.
• 3:29:52
  Winner. The best winner since the queen.
• 3:29:55
  Death the winner. I would even have vote a
• 3:30:00
  carnival of monsters over the Romans.
• 3:30:02
  It's baffling. You know, all the comedies win.
• 3:30:04
  The gunfight has won three as well.
• 3:30:06
  I mean, it's just bad. That's just.
• 3:30:09
  Because you don't know how to do anything but laugh your asses
• 3:30:11
  off. Well, I'm so sorry.
• 3:30:13
  We know. Things.
• 3:30:15
  Maybe if you'll actually stop laughing your ass off for a
• 3:30:16
  second and actually sat down and paid damn attention into the
• 3:30:19
  story and looked into maybe that you enjoy and appreciate the
• 3:30:23
  fact that the comedies tend to often be worse than the actual
• 3:30:26
  stories. This is the rhetoric of a sore
• 3:30:30
  loser in front of me. It was just the rest of someone
• 3:30:34
  who hasn't insulted you in a month or two.
• 3:30:37
  Look, I'm unblemished, don't worry.
• 3:30:40
  This is the gentle art of verbal fist accounts.
• 3:30:43
  But because it is all going to go out as one, it's going to be
• 3:30:45
  like 1 whopper long episode season.
• 3:30:48
  Oh really? Yeah, wear the same outfit.
• 3:30:53
  As an audio, just bring the same voice.
• 3:30:58
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I just want it to be, forgive
• 3:31:01
  me, a really nice long one to go out.
• 3:31:05
  I'm giving it the last of course.
• 3:31:06
  He wants something that's nice and long.
• 3:31:08
  That's the only way he goes. So what we'll do is if we do
• 3:31:12
  like obviously we do the second-half another time and
• 3:31:14
  then we'll battle the two halves against each other, come to some
• 3:31:17
  sort of a conclusion and then do do the.
• 3:31:22
  Where this time the Romans will not win and I will make my life,
• 3:31:26
  make it my life mission for the Romans to lose.
• 3:31:29
  Well, there's another comedy, and at least one more comedy in
• 3:31:31
  that back for said so. Yeah, except this time that
• 3:31:34
  comedy is actually good. On that note guys, honestly, it
• 3:31:45
  is 4 minutes to midnight. Thank you so much everybody for
• 3:31:48
  your time tonight. The.
• 3:32:59
  The. The.
• 3:33:56
  Music. The.
• 3:34:59
  The.