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Can Cardinals solve roster crunch by end of season? · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

0:05
Speaker 1: Hi from Pasadena, California, and welcome back to Cardinals territory.
0:08
Speaker 1: Katie and Bernie here for.
0:09
Speaker 2: You on Tuesday, August fifth.
0:11
Speaker 1: A great win for the Cardinals yesterday over the Dodgers
0:14
Speaker 1: at Dodgers Stadium. Honestly, I thought it was one of
0:17
Speaker 1: their best games of the season and it was a
0:19
Speaker 1: much needed, much appreciated performance after the last week or
0:23
Speaker 1: so of just disappointing news trained deadline drama, and you know,
0:27
Speaker 1: it's never easy to come out and play after a selloff.
0:31
Speaker 1: But I thought what the Cardinals showed on Monday was
0:33
Speaker 1: a lot of fight and I really enjoyed the win.
0:34
Speaker 2: Bernie, what do you got today?
0:36
Speaker 3: Well, you know, they kept be engaged until the wee
0:40
Speaker 3: small hours of the morning. Well not exactly that, but
0:43
Speaker 3: for late night, late night viewing, it was entertaining. I
0:46
Speaker 3: didn't get distracted. I thought it was a heck of
0:47
Speaker 3: a game. And you know, uh, the Cardinals Sunny Ray
0:52
Speaker 3: and this and the other relievers they took. They took
0:56
Speaker 3: advantage of a Dodger's offense that has really been down,
0:59
Speaker 3: I mean really been down, and so they did what
1:02
Speaker 3: they had to do and they won the game, and
1:04
Speaker 3: they scored three runs against good staff. I had fun watching.
1:07
Speaker 3: That's all I have to say, you know, because there's
1:08
Speaker 3: gonna be so many other things that we'll get into
1:11
Speaker 3: today and the relatively brief time we have because you're
1:15
Speaker 3: busy and I'm busy, but we love doing this.
1:17
Speaker 2: It's you know, August.
1:19
Speaker 1: I feel like as people think it's like such a
1:21
Speaker 1: slow time because your post trade deadline, and it's kind
1:25
Speaker 1: of true, but not really.
1:26
Speaker 2: I mean, I feel like I'm all over the place.
1:28
Speaker 1: And speaking of all over the place, the Cardinals roster,
1:31
Speaker 1: let's talk about it up at the Athletic broke it
1:34
Speaker 1: down this morning. As the Cardinals turns us into twenty
1:37
Speaker 1: twenty six, prioritizing playing time continues to be not a
1:41
Speaker 1: coaching problem, not a manager problem, a roster construction problem.
1:47
Speaker 1: And we saw this with Allie Marmel yesterday when he
1:49
Speaker 1: was talking to reporters in Saint Louis, I said, Hey,
1:52
Speaker 1: at the risk of being redundant, because I asked you
1:54
Speaker 1: this question Saturday and Sunday, and I'm going to ask
1:56
Speaker 1: you again today, why is this player not in your line?
2:00
Speaker 2: And how are you balancing X y Z.
2:02
Speaker 1: You can plug in any different player, whether it's Burlison, Herrera, Newbar, Walker, Gorman,
2:07
Speaker 1: take your pick, and he essentially said, h that alec
2:13
Speaker 1: Bertlinsson has solidified himself in the everyday roster. Everyone else
2:16
Speaker 1: there is going to have to be or in everyday lineup.
2:18
Speaker 1: Excuse me, everybody else there is going to have to
2:20
Speaker 1: be a rotation for the problem with that is that
2:24
Speaker 1: no matter who you talk about, whether they are in
2:26
Speaker 1: the lineup or not, whether again it's Walker or Gorman
2:30
Speaker 1: or new Bar or Burlasson or Herrera, I can make
2:33
Speaker 1: an argument, and I can see both sides as to
2:36
Speaker 1: why they should be in the lineup and why they
2:38
Speaker 1: should not be in the lineup. Which player it's coming
2:40
Speaker 1: at the expensive Which player you want to see more of?
2:42
Speaker 1: No matter what, there's an argument to be made for
2:44
Speaker 1: all of these guys and not enough spots. And it
2:49
Speaker 1: is a problem that the Cardinals are trying to find
2:51
Speaker 1: the solution for. But there is no mathematical solution to
2:55
Speaker 1: make this work. But that's the hand Ollie Marmel's been
2:57
Speaker 1: del over the final eight weeks of the season. Bernie,
3:00
Speaker 1: I don't see how he does this here. It makes
3:01
Speaker 1: everybody happy.
3:02
Speaker 3: How do you no exactly. I mean, Olli isn't a
3:05
Speaker 3: really difficult spot. And I know some Cardinals fans don't
3:09
Speaker 3: like him, the don't want to hear, but it really
3:10
Speaker 3: is true. And you know, we had Olli on with
3:13
Speaker 3: us as we every Tuesday on KMOX, and we were
3:16
Speaker 3: asking him about the lineup and the very same type
3:20
Speaker 3: of conversation that you had with him yesterday, and he explained,
3:23
Speaker 3: like how you know, for example, Burlston's not coming out
3:26
Speaker 3: of the lineup. He's doing a great job. You know,
3:28
Speaker 3: he's not going to like move him, move him out
3:30
Speaker 3: or reduce his playing time. And with the other guys
3:33
Speaker 3: that's more of a case by case basis. But to
3:36
Speaker 3: your point, you know, the conclusion is there's just not
3:38
Speaker 3: enough at bats to go around for all the people
3:40
Speaker 3: that he would love to play every single day. Like
3:42
Speaker 3: I'm one of the people that believes, look, the season's over. Competitively,
3:46
Speaker 3: you got to play Jordan Walker every day, You got
3:48
Speaker 3: to play Gorman every day. You got to get Gorman
3:50
Speaker 3: in there, even against some left handed hitters pitchers. Sorry,
3:53
Speaker 3: because this is a perfect time to do it. All
3:55
Speaker 3: that kind of stuff, right, and now it sounds good.
3:58
Speaker 3: It's easy for me to say, right, it sounds good,
4:01
Speaker 3: but it's probably not realistic. And like Ali said today,
4:07
Speaker 3: you know, pretty much whatever decision I make, you know
4:10
Speaker 3: someone is going to be left out, and they're going
4:14
Speaker 3: to be people you know, basically criticizing the decision, which
4:18
Speaker 3: is okay, but you know what he was trying to say,
4:22
Speaker 3: it's it's not. It's far from a perfect situation and
4:26
Speaker 3: he's got to deal with it the best that he can.
4:28
Speaker 3: And gosh, heinm bloom. Please please buddy, Well he's not
4:32
Speaker 3: my buddy, but please can you clear up these log
4:36
Speaker 3: dams and can you can you make some roster decisions
4:40
Speaker 3: that's just going to kind of put this particular problem,
4:43
Speaker 3: which has been a big problem, just to put it
4:45
Speaker 3: behind them. They can't go on and they can't go
4:48
Speaker 3: into another season like this. They just can't.
4:52
Speaker 2: No, they can't.
4:52
Speaker 1: And that's why I think I'm so intrigued by this
4:54
Speaker 1: offseason because as we look at the current roster crunch,
4:57
Speaker 1: this is not a problem regulated to the active roster
5:00
Speaker 1: or the forty man triple A is barren with many
5:04
Speaker 1: of the same type of players that we're seeing in
5:06
Speaker 1: the active roster. I mean, look at it. The Cardinals
5:09
Speaker 1: have Yvon Herrera and left field in a way because
5:11
Speaker 1: they needed to alleviate the DH and try to have
5:14
Speaker 1: more flexibility there. They're gonna try to play Nolan Gorman,
5:16
Speaker 1: and Nolan Arnoto's absence will get to him every day.
5:19
Speaker 2: But Nolan Gorman has looked stiff as a.
5:21
Speaker 1: Word at the hot corner, but they need to play
5:23
Speaker 1: him at third to open up more opportunity for other players.
5:26
Speaker 1: By moving Herrera out of the DH every day, you
5:28
Speaker 1: kind of create that opportunity for Gorman, but you also
5:31
Speaker 1: create a new problem because you're adding another corner outfielder
5:34
Speaker 1: to a mix of corner outfielders, all of whom can't
5:37
Speaker 1: play center field. So you move Herrera out of the DH,
5:41
Speaker 1: and now all of a sudden you're jamming up Burlison,
5:43
Speaker 1: new bar Walker.
5:44
Speaker 2: Those guys are just as important.
5:45
Speaker 1: You can put new bar and Scott or a new
5:47
Speaker 1: bar and center at the expense of Victor Scott, who
5:50
Speaker 1: was the only true center fielder on the roster. And
5:53
Speaker 1: if someone of the Cardinals want to build around regardless
5:55
Speaker 1: of the slump like it doesn't work, and it's not
5:59
Speaker 1: just the lineup that's going to be impacted it's the
6:01
Speaker 1: entire roster. And that's why when heim Bloom comes in
6:03
Speaker 1: in the off season, it will be so important for
6:06
Speaker 1: him to start making moves and you know, actually creating
6:10
Speaker 1: opportunity for playing guys and not just having the same
6:13
Speaker 1: redundant roster we've seen for years now. I mean, it's
6:16
Speaker 1: the problem. Every year, his work is cut out for him.
6:20
Speaker 1: And we've said this before on this show. I don't
6:22
Speaker 1: know what that's going to look like. We can maybe
6:25
Speaker 1: draw some parallels to his time with Boston, but this
6:27
Speaker 1: is an entirely different roster he's inheriting and Bernie. I
6:30
Speaker 1: think if we have the opportunity to talk to him,
6:33
Speaker 1: he would tell fans this is going to be a
6:35
Speaker 1: lengthy process. This is no longer a reset. This is
6:38
Speaker 1: a rebuild. And that's what fans need to hear, because
6:41
Speaker 1: we'll say it.
6:41
Speaker 2: That's what's going on right now.
6:43
Speaker 3: You know, it's already started. I mean, this year basically
6:46
Speaker 3: was the start of a rebuild. They can say runway,
6:48
Speaker 3: but what is a rebuild. A rebuild is when you
6:50
Speaker 3: give priority status to younger players at the expense of
6:54
Speaker 3: maybe some veterans who just you have concluded or just
6:57
Speaker 3: not that good, but they're going to take it to
6:59
Speaker 3: the next level. And I keep saying rebuild is not
7:02
Speaker 3: a dirty word, because no one to Katie, who's not
7:06
Speaker 3: saying this. Bernie Michlss is not saying this. No one
7:08
Speaker 3: of the Cardinals is saying this. O're gonna blow this
7:10
Speaker 3: thing up. We're gonna blow up to smithereens. You won't
7:13
Speaker 3: it'll be unrecognizable. No, they're not doing that. They don't
7:15
Speaker 3: have to do that because there's enough. There's a there's
7:17
Speaker 3: good talent. There's enough good talent, not great talent, but
7:20
Speaker 3: there's enough good talent to work with and to build on.
7:24
Speaker 3: But they just have to make really smart decisions. But listen, Katie,
7:27
Speaker 3: and you know, I'm telling you what you know. And
7:28
Speaker 3: you've been around doing this since twenty twenty one. The
7:31
Speaker 3: Cardinals reached the end of an era in the twenty
7:34
Speaker 3: twenty two season. That was it. That was the end
7:36
Speaker 3: of this era. It closes the whole book on you know,
7:39
Speaker 3: Larusa Poolholes, Melina Wainwright, I mean, and all the other
7:43
Speaker 3: great Cardinals that came before. Then that's over that. You
7:48
Speaker 3: weren't gonna sustain it. It wasn't gonna happen. So at
7:52
Speaker 3: some point at the end of this incredible era, you're
7:55
Speaker 3: gonna have a come down. Now, the Cardinals deserve criticism
7:59
Speaker 3: for letting some things happen. It shouldn't have gotten to
8:02
Speaker 3: the point that it is. They shouldn't have neglected the
8:04
Speaker 3: player development system that used to which used to be
8:07
Speaker 3: their pride and joy. They shouldn't have made so many
8:09
Speaker 3: bad spending decisions. I mean, they they forgot how to
8:13
Speaker 3: develop pitchers, or they didn't try enough, they lost their
8:16
Speaker 3: whatever their mojo they had, they lost it. So that
8:19
Speaker 3: stuff's on them. But this idea that like a team
8:23
Speaker 3: like the Cardinals, who even during their greatest times of winning.
8:28
Speaker 3: You know, basically I looked this, I did the research
8:32
Speaker 3: on this earlier this season. You know, underbuild the way
8:36
Speaker 3: the Cardinals have averaged about number eleven in the rankings
8:39
Speaker 3: in payroll, Right, They're never gonna spend with the Dodgers,
8:42
Speaker 3: They're never gonna spend with the Mets, right, And the
8:45
Speaker 3: thing of it is, but they won world championships, would
8:48
Speaker 3: be able to spend the way that generally they've spent.
8:51
Speaker 3: So my point is, and I'm not criticizing fans at all,
8:56
Speaker 3: because fans can do what they want, but I'm just
8:58
Speaker 3: saying it's really realistic. When the Cardinals have kind of
9:02
Speaker 3: got themselves into this mess, they're gonna have to clean
9:06
Speaker 3: them They're gonna have to dig their way out of it,
9:09
Speaker 3: and they that will take time, and they've put off rebuilding.
9:13
Speaker 3: This is basically the third year of rebuilding. They're already
9:17
Speaker 3: three years into it. So my question of fans is
9:21
Speaker 3: if you say, well, no, no, I don't want to
9:23
Speaker 3: rebuild or whatever, Well, what do you want to continue
9:27
Speaker 3: down this path and stay stuck in the middle where
9:30
Speaker 3: you're like kind of, okay, maybe we'll get a wild
9:33
Speaker 3: card spot? Is that what you want? No, They've they've
9:36
Speaker 3: got to replant this thing and renovate this thing and
9:39
Speaker 3: replenish this thing over time. It does not happen in
9:42
Speaker 3: a season or two. But I don't know. I mean,
9:47
Speaker 3: after this incredible success, you know, a few years of
9:52
Speaker 3: being down, I mean, it ain't baseball hell, you know
9:57
Speaker 3: what it is. It's absolutely necessary.
10:00
Speaker 2: It is, and that's what fans want to hear.
10:03
Speaker 1: And I can't speak for heinme bloom in his front office,
10:06
Speaker 1: whatever that looks like, but I think there's an understanding
10:09
Speaker 1: here that they need to nail the transparency. This fan
10:12
Speaker 1: base knows what's going on, and that's why there is
10:15
Speaker 1: such apathy around the team, even in the first half
10:17
Speaker 1: of the season where they were competing, because they knew
10:20
Speaker 1: what was going on, and the current front office could
10:22
Speaker 1: not just be transparent and call it what it was.
10:25
Speaker 1: They used every possible world word except rebuild, and it
10:30
Speaker 1: was never a tear down like it's okay to acknowledge
10:33
Speaker 1: that over the last three years, Hey, we dropped the ball.
10:36
Speaker 1: We have to get this right, and it's fair for
10:38
Speaker 1: fans to say, how did this happen in the first place.
10:40
Speaker 1: The organization should have been transparent instead of trying to
10:43
Speaker 1: sweep it under the rug. I mean, you can't even
10:46
Speaker 1: imagine what that end of season press conference would have
10:48
Speaker 1: been last year if the problems in the organization weren't
10:51
Speaker 1: so thoroughly exposed. Fans deserve transparency, and that's the first
10:55
Speaker 1: test for this new front office in the heinm. Bloom
10:57
Speaker 1: regime to come out an ace. They have to be
11:00
Speaker 1: honest with what's going on here. Look, Bernie all Robert
11:02
Speaker 1: the segment quickly. I knew in twenty twenty two when
11:05
Speaker 1: the Cardinals had two MVP candidates, an actual MVP in
11:09
Speaker 1: Paul Goldschmidt Noll.
11:10
Speaker 2: And are not to finished third that year Yaudie A.
11:12
Speaker 1: Molina's last year, Albert Poohols was back, and not just
11:15
Speaker 1: back but hitting seven hundred and at the deadline, the
11:18
Speaker 1: Cardinals got Jordan Montgomery and Jose Cantana and those were
11:21
Speaker 1: good trades.
11:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's what they did.
11:24
Speaker 1: That's what they did, and they were a division champion.
11:27
Speaker 1: They were built offensively to last and the only thing
11:29
Speaker 1: the Cardinals did was bolster in quotes their rotation with
11:34
Speaker 1: two middle of the rotation arms. I knew at that
11:37
Speaker 1: trade deadline this was not an organization that saw a
11:40
Speaker 1: future of competitive and they were going to try their
11:43
Speaker 1: best to do so.
11:44
Speaker 2: But the riding was on the wall at that trade deadline.
11:47
Speaker 3: No, I agree with you, and I'll just really quickly
11:49
Speaker 3: throw this in because I talked about it on one
11:51
Speaker 3: of my videos, because you and I are absolutely on
11:54
Speaker 3: the same page these Heim Bloom has got to move
11:59
Speaker 3: away from what the Cardinals have been trying to do
12:02
Speaker 3: but trying to convince their fans, oh no, no, no, no,
12:05
Speaker 3: we're trying to be competitive. Hey, we we're we think
12:09
Speaker 3: we can get in the playoffs. These fans want the truth.
12:13
Speaker 3: They may not like the truth, but they need to
12:15
Speaker 3: hear it. They these fans do not deserve to be
12:19
Speaker 3: talked to straightforward, no bs, this is what the plan is.
12:23
Speaker 3: We ask for your patients. When we come through it,
12:26
Speaker 3: we're going to be better because of it. And you know,
12:29
Speaker 3: the last thing, oh my gosh, the worst thing Heim
12:32
Speaker 3: Bloom would do, and I believe he's a lot smarter
12:35
Speaker 3: than this is to come out and kind of recycle
12:40
Speaker 3: the do a remix of the best of Mozilla. You know,
12:44
Speaker 3: you know, you know, yeah, like you don't you don't
12:47
Speaker 3: want to do you don't want to do like, well,
12:49
Speaker 3: here's I'm Bloom doing a cover version of the best
12:52
Speaker 3: of John Mozalak. No, you don't want that. Right. They
12:55
Speaker 3: have to have a great message, and it's got to
12:57
Speaker 3: be an honest message. And I think a lot of
13:00
Speaker 3: fans will say at least they're being straight with me now.
13:04
Speaker 3: And I can get behind this if I see progress,
13:07
Speaker 3: if you see guys like JJ Weatherholt waiting in the
13:10
Speaker 3: wings and Liam Doyle and Quinn Matthews and some other people, right,
13:14
Speaker 3: and if you make some trades and you clear up
13:17
Speaker 3: these log jams, and you you find some young starting pitching,
13:20
Speaker 3: you develop your own starting pitching. They I'm not saying
13:24
Speaker 3: they're gonna fill Bush Stadium as soon as they see
13:26
Speaker 3: some progress, because so much damage has been done to
13:29
Speaker 3: this franchise. But you've got to begin the process of
13:33
Speaker 3: renewing this brand and this competitive product. You've got to
13:37
Speaker 3: renew it and renew well, you know, isn't done like overnight.
13:41
Speaker 3: So I am one percent endorse what the Cardinals are
13:46
Speaker 3: doing because I've been hollering that it's overdue and it's
13:50
Speaker 3: absolutely necessary.
13:52
Speaker 2: Agreed. Bernie claps all around.
13:54
Speaker 1: Hey, quick message for our sponsor here at Bilt Rewards
13:56
Speaker 1: and then we'll get into our next Nolan Aronado segment.
13:58
Speaker 2: I know he's been a hot topic for a lot.
14:00
Speaker 2: Do you fancy stick with us? Will be right back, Crats.
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15:03
Speaker 1: All right, as we know, Prior to this Sokow Swing
15:06
Speaker 1: road trip, Nolan Arnata was placed on the ten dail
15:08
Speaker 1: with the right shoulder strain. Still no update as to
15:11
Speaker 1: what that looks like. I imagine the Cardinals will have
15:13
Speaker 1: more information when we get back to Bush Stadium on
15:16
Speaker 1: Friday for a three series homestand I believe it is
15:20
Speaker 1: Cubs Rockies Yankee, so that'll be a big one.
15:23
Speaker 2: Yankee is going through it right now. But Brnolan Arnaudo.
15:27
Speaker 1: I mean, this is a player who would be the
15:30
Speaker 1: first to say this was not how he thought twenty
15:33
Speaker 1: twenty five was going to go down for him personally,
15:35
Speaker 1: and he has done an exceptional job of wearing it publicly.
15:39
Speaker 2: Saying the right things, being a good teammate.
15:42
Speaker 1: I know that he's not exactly like He's never been
15:44
Speaker 1: that type of rally behind you leader. He leads by
15:47
Speaker 1: how he plays, and when he's not playing well, he
15:49
Speaker 1: takes that to heart. The offense does not look good.
15:52
Speaker 1: I believe the shoulder played into that, especially in July
15:56
Speaker 1: when he comes back, because I don't think this is
15:58
Speaker 1: an injury that's going to sideline him for the rest
16:00
Speaker 1: of the season.
16:02
Speaker 2: What are the Cardinals going to do with him?
16:03
Speaker 1: Bernie, you had a really good conversation with Olie Marmel
16:06
Speaker 1: today on KMOX about the Nolan Arnatto situation.
16:09
Speaker 2: What's the manager thinking here?
16:11
Speaker 3: You know, I thought that Olly needed to address this
16:14
Speaker 3: because people like me have been running our mouths about
16:17
Speaker 3: the situation because it is a terrible situation for a
16:20
Speaker 3: manager of a baseball team. You have a future Hall
16:22
Speaker 3: of Fame player. Listen, we all know that Nolan Arenado
16:28
Speaker 3: his best years are behind him. He's in a steep decline.
16:31
Speaker 3: The power's gone. I mean, it's this is not going
16:34
Speaker 3: to get any better. It just isn't. And he's going
16:36
Speaker 3: to be it's gonna be thirty five next year, thirty
16:38
Speaker 3: six the season after that. He still plays good defense,
16:41
Speaker 3: but some of the metrics indicate even that has kind
16:43
Speaker 3: of slipped a little bit. And the Cardinals also have
16:46
Speaker 3: players that they want to play, like where's JJ Weatherholt
16:49
Speaker 3: going to go? And he's an infielder because no matter
16:52
Speaker 3: where you deploy him, someone else is going to have
16:54
Speaker 3: to move. You know, how do they possibly accommodate Nolan
17:00
Speaker 3: Aarnado and give him five hundred and five hundred and
17:02
Speaker 3: fifty plate appearances and also play the young guys in
17:05
Speaker 3: a rebuild situation? Right? They can't. So I just thought,
17:10
Speaker 3: I said to Oli asaid, I mean, I just think
17:12
Speaker 3: people want to hear you explain this because you're in
17:14
Speaker 3: a tough spot. And what he said, and I didn't
17:16
Speaker 3: write it all down, but I would encourage people to
17:19
Speaker 3: go to you know, kmox or go to the YouTube
17:23
Speaker 3: channel and you can listen to what he said about it.
17:24
Speaker 3: But he basically said, uh, while he's here, Aaronato. While
17:29
Speaker 3: he's here, he needs to play. And Oli made it
17:34
Speaker 3: very clear, very clear that he will play. Like it's
17:38
Speaker 3: not going to be like, no, hey Nolan, we got
17:40
Speaker 3: to put you on the bench, we got to play Gorman,
17:42
Speaker 3: we got to find out if he can play their base.
17:44
Speaker 3: You know, it's not going to happen. And he said, look,
17:47
Speaker 3: he said, this guy's a Hall of Fame player, he
17:50
Speaker 3: is a team leader. He's a leader of our team.
17:54
Speaker 3: He's one of the most highly respected baseball players out there.
17:57
Speaker 3: He will play. Now, people have to understand something, you know,
18:01
Speaker 3: because it's easy for me to say, well, this is
18:04
Speaker 3: a ridiculous situation. He can't play because you won't be
18:07
Speaker 3: that much, because you won't be able to there's no
18:09
Speaker 3: point in a rebuild if he is stuck at third base.
18:13
Speaker 3: But the point is is, even though you know, I
18:16
Speaker 3: would say to Ali Marble like, well, it's okay to
18:18
Speaker 3: say no, you can say that you're not going to
18:20
Speaker 3: play as much. Okay, It's easy for Brenie Michlis to
18:22
Speaker 3: say he's he's the guy you know that has to
18:25
Speaker 3: run the team. As I told as I said afterwards
18:28
Speaker 3: when we were reviewing all this I said, Listen, the
18:32
Speaker 3: Nolan Arenado problem must be solved at a level higher
18:37
Speaker 3: than and above Ali marml. That has to be done
18:40
Speaker 3: at the heind Bloom level and the Build de Witt level.
18:44
Speaker 3: And it's going to lead to one way or the other.
18:47
Speaker 3: It's going to cost the Cardinals a lot of money.
18:49
Speaker 3: They're going to either just about pay you know, maybe
18:52
Speaker 3: seventy five percent of what's left if some team wants them,
18:56
Speaker 3: or Build de Witt is going to have to step up,
18:58
Speaker 3: and he's going to have to say, in effect, well
19:03
Speaker 3: we have to we have to start this rebuild. So
19:05
Speaker 3: let's just pay up. Let's just give him all the
19:09
Speaker 3: money over to him, and then we'll thank him and
19:11
Speaker 3: blah blah blah. That's the only way this ends. Because seriously, Katie,
19:14
Speaker 3: what you know this man, I'm talking to somebody who
19:17
Speaker 3: knows this very very well. There's no peaceful way out.
19:21
Speaker 3: You're not You're not going to get a team that's
19:23
Speaker 3: going to take him on in this terrible decline he's in.
19:26
Speaker 3: And and you know, for you know, assume forty two
19:29
Speaker 3: million guaranteed money the next two years. It's just not
19:31
Speaker 3: going to happen. And they would want him for those
19:34
Speaker 3: defense but it's like, well, do we want to pay
19:36
Speaker 3: forty two million dollars for defense?
19:39
Speaker 1: Uh?
19:40
Speaker 3: Probably not. So this thing will not end well. There
19:43
Speaker 3: won't be a happy ending, is what I'm trying to say.
19:45
Speaker 3: But I think this gets back to the transparency issue.
19:50
Speaker 3: The Cardinals can't They just can't do this thing. Hein
19:53
Speaker 3: Bloom can't do this thing where they're going to come
19:55
Speaker 3: out and try to put a positive spin on it
19:58
Speaker 3: when there really isn't a positive sp Now Ali can
20:01
Speaker 3: because he has a different job, but there's no way
20:04
Speaker 3: the math. The math works. If Nolan Audo is Nolan
20:08
Speaker 3: Aarnado is at third base for one hundred and thirty
20:11
Speaker 3: hundred and forty hundred and forty five game does work.
20:14
Speaker 1: I think you're spot on, And this is not a
20:17
Speaker 1: John Mosella decision, is not a Heigh Bloom decision. It's
20:21
Speaker 1: a build a Web Junior decision. It's a money decision.
20:23
Speaker 1: And that's why there was such a hard time for
20:25
Speaker 1: the Cardinals when they tried to trade Arnatto over last
20:28
Speaker 1: off season. The Astros deal. The reason why the Astros
20:30
Speaker 1: deal was perfect from the Cardinal's perspective, not the player
20:33
Speaker 1: perspective was because Houston was willing to eat a significant
20:36
Speaker 1: amount of money. And then when Arnauda declined, what did
20:39
Speaker 1: the Ashtros do? They turned around and committed three years
20:41
Speaker 1: and sixty million dollars to Christian Walker, which was at
20:44
Speaker 1: that point in time, roughly about the exact same money
20:48
Speaker 1: that Arnatto was o for the remainder of his contract.
20:50
Speaker 2: So they were willing to pay the money.
20:52
Speaker 1: And that's why there was so much frustration internally because
20:55
Speaker 1: John Mozelok is no idiot. He knew no other team
20:57
Speaker 1: was going to match the money and his primary goal
21:00
Speaker 1: objective from his boss because yes, he I know we
21:03
Speaker 1: are frustrated with mo He has a boss too, sure,
21:06
Speaker 1: and his boss gave him very clear orders. And he'll
21:08
Speaker 1: never say this, but we can that it needed the
21:12
Speaker 1: money needed to go with him. It wasn't about the return.
21:14
Speaker 1: It was about taking as much of the money off
21:16
Speaker 1: the books. The Cardinals no longer have that luxury to
21:19
Speaker 1: be picky if they want to do this rebuild the
21:22
Speaker 1: right way, and they want to do right by this player,
21:24
Speaker 1: a future Hall of Famer who they convinced to sign
21:28
Speaker 1: his final opt out clause and did nothing to build
21:31
Speaker 1: the club after that, right, they need to move on
21:34
Speaker 1: from him. It's the best thing for all parties involved.
21:37
Speaker 1: It is a sad way for Nolan Arnaudo to go
21:40
Speaker 1: out of Saint Louis. I mean, I think everyone, including himself,
21:44
Speaker 1: had so much higher hopes for what this team would
21:47
Speaker 1: look like, for what his performance would look like. And
21:49
Speaker 1: I don't want to discredit him. In twenty twenty two
21:51
Speaker 1: he finished third in NL MVP voting. You know, multiple
21:53
Speaker 1: All Star, multiple Gold Glove that the organization did not
21:57
Speaker 1: build behind him for So the best thing for this
22:01
Speaker 1: ownership group to do is cut their losses, embrace the rebuild,
22:06
Speaker 1: eat the money, do right by the player. That I
22:09
Speaker 1: think is going to be one of the first things
22:11
Speaker 1: that the new front office takes over in the off season.
22:14
Speaker 3: It's what a great I'm sorry when a great player
22:16
Speaker 3: goes into decline. And I've been through this in my
22:19
Speaker 3: career as a media observer. It's never pretty, it's never easy,
22:22
Speaker 3: it's often ugly. It's just what are you going to do?
22:25
Speaker 3: I mean, I won't go over we don't have time
22:27
Speaker 3: people one would be bored with my old stories anyway.
22:30
Speaker 3: But any here's the deal. So they have to just
22:33
Speaker 3: accept that this is the reality and they can't duck it,
22:36
Speaker 3: because if they duck it, then you're going to go
22:38
Speaker 3: to fans and say, look, we want your patients. We're
22:41
Speaker 3: going to come out of this in a better way.
22:42
Speaker 3: You know, we're going to we're going to rebuild. We're
22:45
Speaker 3: really excited about the opportunity to do this. And then
22:48
Speaker 3: you have Nolan Aronado. They're hitting you know, two twenty
22:51
Speaker 3: with a three thirty eight slugging percentage or whatever. It
22:55
Speaker 3: just no, it would contradict the message they want to
22:58
Speaker 3: send this offseason. So Build the WIT's got to step
23:02
Speaker 3: up and let me just throw this in here really quick.
23:03
Speaker 3: So I did some research. First of all, let's remember
23:05
Speaker 3: something when we say, well, it's a lot of money
23:07
Speaker 3: for building. First of all, Bill has it, he'll be okay.
23:11
Speaker 3: But when they made the trade with Colorado, Build a
23:15
Speaker 3: Wit personally negotiated the financial terms with Charlie Montfort, the
23:20
Speaker 3: Rockies owner, and Build de Witt got the Rockies to
23:23
Speaker 3: send about fifty one million dollars to Saint Louis to
23:26
Speaker 3: defray the cost of the remaining contract fifty one million.
23:30
Speaker 3: So you got you've got Ironato at a discounted price
23:34
Speaker 3: anyway to begin with right and then build the WIT.
23:37
Speaker 3: Through the years, it's never been anything this big, but
23:39
Speaker 3: I added something up. They've had like six or seven
23:42
Speaker 3: players that are sunken cost players where they you know,
23:44
Speaker 3: they traded Dexter Valor, they traded Mike Leak and they
23:48
Speaker 3: ate money to do so, but there were other guys
23:51
Speaker 3: that they just released and they ate the money. So
23:53
Speaker 3: the sunken costs. I figured this out build a WITT
23:56
Speaker 3: as the owner, and this is just the minimal amount.
23:59
Speaker 3: There's probably more. He is. He has basically signed off
24:03
Speaker 3: on fifty million dollars of sunken costs on players that
24:07
Speaker 3: they wanted to get rid of. So it's not like
24:10
Speaker 3: he hasn't done this before. I just think, and I
24:13
Speaker 3: know you agree, it's really an urgent time to do
24:16
Speaker 3: it again. And yeah, if it's going to be a
24:18
Speaker 3: bigger amount, too bad, too bad.
24:23
Speaker 1: The most urgent time was to do it over the
24:25
Speaker 1: off season.
24:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it needs to happen now.
24:30
Speaker 3: And listen, I'm not talking Nolan Arnado. He got the
24:33
Speaker 3: no protection, notarde protection for a reason. But I've had
24:38
Speaker 3: some fans say, like, I really feel sorry for him.
24:40
Speaker 3: I feel bad for him that they didn't build around him.
24:42
Speaker 3: I also feel bad for him and Goldschmidt. Four years together,
24:46
Speaker 3: not one playoff victory. And by the way, those two
24:49
Speaker 3: guys didn't do much correct. You know, they were pretty
24:52
Speaker 3: bad in the postseason during their four years together. But
24:57
Speaker 3: I can't sit here and say I really can't. I'm
25:00
Speaker 3: not a heartless guy, but I can't sit here and say, ah,
25:03
Speaker 3: poor Nolan Aronauto. Listen, he had a chance to get out,
25:07
Speaker 3: and he had a chance to get to a good team,
25:09
Speaker 3: and their general manager tried to tell them, no, no, no, no,
25:12
Speaker 3: you're misreading the Tucker trade that our owner's not like this.
25:16
Speaker 3: Our owner wants to win. We've got a lot of talent,
25:19
Speaker 3: We're gone for it. We're going to bring in other
25:22
Speaker 3: and you know, hourn Auto had the right to do it.
25:25
Speaker 3: But I'm just saying, like, I can't have a pity
25:26
Speaker 3: party for him. He had his ticket out of the
25:29
Speaker 3: situation to go to a better team and he turned
25:32
Speaker 3: it down.
25:33
Speaker 2: Hey, say what you want about Jim Crane. That's an
25:35
Speaker 2: owner who wants to win. Yea.
25:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a mess for the Arnauda situation. I hopefully
25:40
Speaker 1: will have an injury update for him. Again, this is
25:43
Speaker 1: just my speculation, but I do think we'll see him
25:45
Speaker 1: in a Cardinal uniform and at some point before the
25:47
Speaker 1: end of the season, and then after that.
25:50
Speaker 2: It's and I.
25:51
Speaker 1: Mean this with all the respects for someone who I've
25:53
Speaker 1: covered since day one in Saint Louis has been nothing
25:55
Speaker 1: but a total pro.
25:57
Speaker 2: It's time to go.
25:58
Speaker 1: Quick message from our partners at Draft came. We'll wrap
26:00
Speaker 1: up this episode.
26:01
Speaker 2: Stay with us.
26:02
Speaker 1: The dog days of summer are here and in Missouri
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27:04
Speaker 1: Slash promos all right coming at you tonight from Dodger Stadium,
27:09
Speaker 1: Game two of the Serious Miles Michaelis versus Emmett Shean
27:12
Speaker 1: Temmy Evan went on the IL on Monday for the Dodgers,
27:15
Speaker 1: so that was unfortunate with an ankle sprain. Cardinals seemed
27:18
Speaker 1: to be all good on that injury front. From there,
27:22
Speaker 1: I'm excited for Wednesday's game because shoe Hey is pitching
27:26
Speaker 1: and you guys know, I love school Tony, and then
27:29
Speaker 1: a mush sheeted off day for everybody involved before the
27:32
Speaker 1: Cubs come back and to Bush Stadium and we kick
27:35
Speaker 1: off the dog days of summer. The dog days of
27:37
Speaker 1: Summer do span from the last the day after the
27:39
Speaker 1: trade deadline to like when rosters expand. For us here
27:42
Speaker 1: in Saint Louis, the dog Kayes are going to expand
27:44
Speaker 1: until the final game with the regular season. It is
27:46
Speaker 1: what it is, Bernie. Anything you got cooking that you
27:48
Speaker 1: want fans to read, No.
27:50
Speaker 3: I just I've direct everyone to go to STL Sports Central.
27:53
Speaker 3: I got columns, I've got videos. Also check me out
27:58
Speaker 3: on the Gas House Gang and Redbird, Rush Hour and
28:01
Speaker 3: Sports on a Sunday morning on Camoax, Singing Red Podcasts
28:04
Speaker 3: with Will Leach and of course working with the great
28:06
Speaker 3: Katie Woo a couple of times on Cardinal Territory. So
28:09
Speaker 3: that that's it.
28:11
Speaker 2: He's a bit popular demand.
28:13
Speaker 3: I stay in this office all day. Every now and
28:16
Speaker 3: then there's a quiet knock on the door and my
28:18
Speaker 3: wife will like, bring in like a tray. You know.
28:21
Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm like basically like a prisoner, you know.
28:24
Speaker 3: It's what they do, Like they slide it in like,
28:26
Speaker 3: here's your food.
28:27
Speaker 2: You know, we are all prisoners to Cardinals Baseball.
28:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, everyone, you can visit the Cardinal Territory shop dot
28:33
Speaker 1: com for your first look at our new merch.
28:36
Speaker 2: I said it on the last show. I'll repeat it.
28:38
Speaker 1: We are so so close to five thousand subscribers. Once
28:41
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Speaker 1: But we got to get there. We gotta subscribe. You
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Speaker 1: coffee mugs I dis ordered to. Uh so, get on there,
28:54
Speaker 1: get some merch, wrap your hopefully favorite show, Burnie. I'll
28:58
Speaker 1: be back with you at some point later this week.
29:00
Speaker 1: I'm actually off for the CUB series after the trade deadline.
29:04
Speaker 1: I was very thankful to get the off day plus
29:06
Speaker 1: three more so I won't be boots on the ground
29:08
Speaker 1: after the LA series, but I'll be back at bus
29:10
Speaker 1: Stadium on next Monday.
29:12
Speaker 2: Bernie.
29:12
Speaker 1: Hopefully I'll see you soon. Thanks to always watching Territory guys.
29:15
Speaker 1: See you next week.