Latest / My Favorite Things / My Favorite Things Episode 4: Kris Hampton

Transcript

My Favorite Things Episode 4: Kris Hampton · My Favorite Things

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Chris Hampton, thanks for being here.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: What do you do?
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, go ahead.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: Let me redo that and let you talk.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: Chris Hampton, thanks for being here.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: I am always excited to have my voice come across a microphone,
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: especially when it's talking to you.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: So, very psyched.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: We should live closer together or just do this once a month.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: Fact.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if that would work.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: Can you talk about...
• 0:30
  what you do for a living first,
• 0:32
  and then maybe we'll move backwards from there?
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's a really good question.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: Technically,
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: I suppose I'm a climbing coach for a living,
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: and that certainly is what pays my bills,
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: is running a company of coaches.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: We sell training plans and products that can help climbers become
• 0:54
  Better climbers,
• 0:56
  better people,
• 0:57
  better humans,
• 0:58
  better partners,
• 0:59
  all of those things.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's sort of our focus.
• 1:01
  And that does not give you the full scope of what I like to
• 1:08
  think I do for a living.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Even though I don't make a lot of money doing the other things,
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: podcasting and making things is certainly my passion right now.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: Whether it's music,
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: which I've done for a lot of years,
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: or writing,
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: audio storytelling,
• 1:31
  any kind of thing that I think I can put out there and tell a
• 1:36
  story that serves the
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: community in some way is essentially how I consider myself right now.
• 1:44
  A storyteller in several mediums as well as a coach who's
• 1:49
  trying to help climbers
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: become better people.
• 1:52
  Which I guess could be a story they tell themselves anyway in
• 1:56
  some broad definition of it.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think that's a big part of it.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe that's why it feels so right to me.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 2:07
  You're just convincing them they can be better in some way,
• 2:10
  which is a type of story.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to say the name of the company that you are?
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's probably a good idea.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: The coaching company is Power Company Climbing.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: We also do a popular climbing podcast through their,
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: a couple actually,
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: Power Company Podcast and Breaking Beta.
• 2:30
  and then i have a company called plug tone audio that is a
• 2:36
  podcasting collective
• 2:38
  for other podcasts in the outdoor space and we help create
• 2:43
  podcasts and you know
• 2:46
  one-off projects audio art projects for brands and for
• 2:50
  ourselves and and that
• 2:52
  The channel where I sort of put all of my audio art projects is
• 2:56
  Plug Tone Outdoors.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: You can get those anywhere you get podcasts.
• 3:01
  And I have another podcast on there called Hip Hop Taught Me
• 3:05
  Everything that I do
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: with my friend Devin Dabney,
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: which is a podcast about the lessons learned one song at a time.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just really fun to reflect on those things.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: Some of that I think we'll be doing today as well.
• 3:21
  yeah um i'm gonna list off a couple of the other jobs i know
• 3:26
  you've had and maybe
• 3:27
  you can add in a couple that i've missed uh event mc um yep
• 3:34
  still do it actual
• 3:36
  hip-hop mc um i would list the job sort of doing it yeah um
• 3:43
  professional mural
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: painter
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: Not doing it anymore, but yes, definitely.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: That was a big section of my life.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: Was it country dance or line dance instructor?
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: I was a line dance instructor.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm furious you just brought that.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm just kidding.
• 4:03
  um actually i love love that part of my life because it was a
• 4:09
  it was a like i'm
• 4:10
  falling out of love with hip-hop let me go in this other
• 4:13
  direction and see what
• 4:14
  kind of fun i can have over there and it was a huge fun
• 4:18
  teaching country line
• 4:19
  dancing gymnastics coach i was a gymnastics coach for many
• 4:26
  years i think you also
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: worked in like a semi truck wash for a while that i know about
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: I did.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: I worked in a skating rink around the same time.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: I was the chicken who did the chicken dance and I was a floor guard.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: What else is on your list of jobs?
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've worked in factories a little bit.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: My first job was at a fruit and vegetable market.
• 4:55
  I lied about my age to get the job and I would just ride my
• 4:59
  skateboard there every
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: day when I was 14.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I worked there for a lot of years, actually.
• 5:05
  I would go to the big market downtown and pick up fruits and
• 5:09
  vegetables in the mornings and
• 5:11
  with the owner and bring those back and i basically ran the
• 5:15
  place by the time i was
• 5:16
  15 16 for large portions of the day which was fun and scary and
• 5:24
  i guess maybe the
• 5:25
  biggest job i have which makes me absolutely no money and just
• 5:28
  costs me a lot of
• 5:29
  money is i'm a dad to a 25 year old and a six month old and a
• 5:37
  grandpa to a
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: two-year-old so
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, that catches us up.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: And originally from Cincinnati, Ohio.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, sir.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: Is Cincinnati in the South or the Midwest or the East Coast?
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of nowhere.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: I've always said Midwest.
• 6:00
  And I think for my purposes,
• 6:03
  that fits because I see it through a hip hop lens and
• 6:09
  And the music that comes out of Cincinnati is probably most
• 6:13
  influenced by Midwestern hip hop.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: There's definitely some East Coast,
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: some Southern,
• 6:20
  but I feel like it relates more closely to like what came out
• 6:24
  of Chicago and
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: Detroit.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's a really good take on it, actually.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: I hadn't thought of that.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: To hell with geography.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's all about hip-hop.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're right.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's a form of geography, right?
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: Or a subset of geography.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, let's get into your favorite...
• 6:44
  pieces of let's get into your show into the show and tell
• 6:46
  portion of the show here
• 6:48
  um so we're gonna we're gonna go in sort of chronological order
• 6:53
  i appreciate you
• 6:54
  putting these in chronological order um i didn't have to do a
• 6:57
  lot of homework yeah
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: well it's it just makes sense then i didn't have to ask you um
• 7:03
  Your first thing on your list is the cassette single of a song
• 7:07
  called The Show by Dougie Fresh.
• 7:11
  I think featuring Slick Rick or maybe just Dougie Fresh and
• 7:14
  Slick Rick with Lottie
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: Dottie on the B side.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: It might have been Dougie Fresh and the Get Fresh crew.
• 7:20
  oh yeah you're right it totally was yeah um can you talk about
• 7:25
  discovering that
• 7:26
  like when did that actually come into your life was it right
• 7:29
  after it came out it
• 7:31
  was probably pretty close to when it came out which was i think
• 7:35
  85 86 somewhere
• 7:37
  around there is when i found it um a couple of years earlier i
• 7:42
  had had a neighbor
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: move in who listened to hip-hop
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: And it was a very white, racist neighborhood.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: There was no hip-hop.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'd never heard anything like it.
• 7:53
  And he brought,
• 7:54
  I believe,
• 7:55
  a Fat Boys tape was the first thing I ever heard.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I listened to that and was just...
• 8:04
  couldn't believe what i was hearing it spoke to me in a way
• 8:07
  different than what my
• 8:10
  parents music had or any of the music i'd heard had you know my
• 8:13
  mom listened to
• 8:14
  rock and oldies and that was it and this thing this felt new
• 8:20
  and exciting so what i
• 8:22
  would do is i would ride my bicycle to this record store it was
• 8:26
  about a 45 minute
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: bike ride i was totally not allowed to do this
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: but I would do it often and ask for hip-hop.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: And they would get hip-hop in just to give to me.
• 8:42
  And that's where I got the cassette single of the show,
• 8:47
  which the B-side was Lottie Dottie.
• 8:49
  And I remember picking it up and putting it into my Walkman and
• 8:54
  riding home with it.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: And
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: By the time I got home,
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: I knew that because of some choice words in the song,
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: Lottie Dottie,
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: that the tape was going to get taken away from me if my parents heard it.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: So as soon as I got home,
• 9:15
  I made a bunch of copies of it and hid them in my closet
• 9:20
  because I knew that it
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: would get taken away.
• 9:24
  This is like coming home with a bag of weed and breaking it up
• 9:26
  into smaller bags.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: You can just stash them all over the house just in case you take...
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: Not that I've ever done that,
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: but...
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: The 11-year-old version.
• 9:36
  So,
• 9:36
  sonically,
• 9:38
  the show is a really interesting song because I think it's
• 9:43
  live,
• 9:43
  right?
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: The single is live and it's beatboxing.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure if it's done live or not.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it...
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: It feels live, even if it's not done live.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: It feels like a live performance.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: So it very well may be.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not positive if it is or isn't.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: But it did feel that way.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: It felt like a performance.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: And it includes...
• 10:05
  rapping beatboxing and scratching which was like my entrance
• 10:11
  into oh here are these
• 10:13
  elements of hip-hop I was break dancing at the time so so I
• 10:19
  under now I'm like oh
• 10:20
  I've got them all now minus graffiti so yeah yeah um yeah I
• 10:28
  know it's it's
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: interesting how that's such a
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: those sorts of things are of such a time period,
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: and like disappeared over,
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: over the years and like,
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: no one scratches on records anymore,
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: you know?
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: How much do you think this single cost?
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think it was like $1.99?
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: I bet it was.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: I bet it was right about that.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I would, like I had saved up a lot of money as a kid.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: I was selling greeting cards.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: I would like walk door to door and sell greeting cards.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I was a cute kid and I was like, you know, a personable little kid.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: I like talking to people and...
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so I sold a lot of greeting cards and I would save my money.
• 11:11
  And that's how I was able to go to this record store like every
• 11:17
  week or two and buy a new tape.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I heard a lot of hip hop that way, just buying these tapes.
• 11:25
  And after my dream,
• 11:29
  my vision came true with this one,
• 11:32
  the tape did get taken away from me.
• 11:35
  multiple times i kept the original stashed i wish i still had
• 11:38
  it but i don't i kept
• 11:40
  the original stashed and i would play my my copies and my
• 11:45
  stepdad kept taking the
• 11:47
  copies away and he like rifled through my room trying to find
• 11:51
  them but i had this
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: little hidden compartment in my closet where he couldn't find them and
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: And that was like this moment that was like,
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 12:00
  this is this thing that adults or people in this neighborhood
• 12:05
  or something don't
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: want here.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: But for me, it seems important.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I have to protect it.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's how it felt to me.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I did that a number of times over the years with other tapes.
• 12:19
  Like when NWA came out,
• 12:20
  I was like,
• 12:22
  oh,
• 12:22
  this is for sure getting taken away from me.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: Second one, but I'm going to play it out loud regardless.
• 12:30
  Do you think the people had a problem with the profanity or was
• 12:35
  it more of a racial
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: thing or was it – I mean,
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: I know people used to – I remember people used to say back in the day,
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: it's not music.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: There's no singing in it.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then,
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: 30 years later,
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: here it is,
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: hip-hop's mostly singing anymore,
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: with auto-tune and,
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: all the –
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's like really blurred at this point, which is, which is so funny.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then old guys like me are like, there's too much singing.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's not hip hop.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think they're like,
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: specifically maybe even your stepdad,
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: was he just like,
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: not like,
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: you can't listen to things with the F word on them or like.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well,
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: that,
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: that was what he said,
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: but a lot of the music they were listening to out loud in front of me.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: Was also doing that, you know, and they had no problem with it.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: So in retrospect,
• 13:24
  I have to believe it was a race or culture thing that they just
• 13:30
  didn't understand
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: it.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't connect with it and they don't want me connecting with it.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: I have to believe that.
• 13:38
  Do you think then that the fact that nobody wanted you to
• 13:42
  listen to it led you to
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: be more into it as a sort of rebellion thing?
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 13:49
  I suspect I would have continued to be into it regardless just
• 13:54
  because of the way
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: it connected with me.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like I have a very distinct memory of,
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: of hearing hip-hop for the first time.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: I was on my sidewalk and we had a magnifying glass burning ants.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: And he played this tape.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I have this distinct memory of thinking,
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: whoa,
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: this is something very cool that I've never heard.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe that's part of, you know, it's not my parents' thing.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's my own thing.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm discovering it, so to speak.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: But then definitely because they were like, you can't listen to this.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: I was going to listen to it more.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 14:31
  I think about it like the word that comes to mind of me
• 14:34
  discovering it in my own
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: life is exotic.
• 14:36
  Like it was people I was never going to meet talking about
• 14:39
  these places I was never
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: going to go and these things I would never experience.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like a way of – it was a way of traveling sort of.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: So then you have exotic and then also forbidden by –
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: people like your parents and Tipper Gore,
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: who led to those explicit lyrics labels being put on music,
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: which I would black out with a black magic marker,
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: thinking I was being all sneaky.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I asked my mom like five years ago, like, did you notice?
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: Did you know I was doing that?
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, yeah, we knew.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't really care.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean...
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: I know they can.
• 15:12
  The worst it got was she told me to throw away Wu-Tang 36
• 15:16
  Chambers because she
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: heard the torture skit through my bedroom door.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah,
• 15:21
  it was just so much more interesting than the stuff that we
• 15:24
  were being shown and
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: the rest of the stuff that was on the radio.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: It was so interesting sonically and everything.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's how it felt for me too.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: It just resonated with me on a totally different level.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: And as far as the explicit parts of it,
• 15:41
  it was pretty clear to me early on that I'm allowed to read
• 15:46
  books that talk about
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: murder and these scary,
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: bloody things.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm allowed to watch movies that have these things in them.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what year it came out,
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: but when Eddie Murphy Raw came out,
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: I watched it with my parents.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: And they're just like, he won't get any of this, you know?
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: And all those things were okay, but for some reason hip-hop was not.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: And that was pretty clear to me.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this is a double standard.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not going for it.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's really interesting.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good segue into our next one,
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: which is Check the Rhyme single or Low End Theory,
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: the album.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: 1991, 1992 for you.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: Which is, I think, like, as far as...
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: it's pretty benign as far as like controversial rap stuff, right?
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like the normal things people complain about.
• 16:42
  But yeah,
• 16:42
  Tribe Called Quest,
• 16:43
  they're not really talking about killing people.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: They're not really...
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's definitely further down the spectrum of objectifying women or,
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: not that much profanity.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: But what's...
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: How did this come into your life when it came out?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: Man,
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: this is like one of my most distinct memories of my entire life,
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: was hearing Q-tip for the first time.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: I used to tape this radio show.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: It was a DJ named ICD.
• 17:20
  in Cincinnati and it was the only radio show at the time that
• 17:23
  played hip-hop and it
• 17:24
  was at like two in the morning or something and I would set my
• 17:30
  boom box up with my
• 17:31
  radio playing and the tape in there already with you know play
• 17:35
  record pause and I
• 17:38
  would set my alarm so that I'd wake up right when the ICD show
• 17:41
  was coming on and I
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: would just hit pause and go back to sleep and
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: so that it was recording as much as could fit on the tape.
• 17:49
  And then the next morning on the way to school,
• 17:52
  on the bus,
• 17:52
  I would listen to the tape.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I would always hear something new.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: I was hearing some interesting Cincinnati hip-hop,
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: people I would later meet,
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: and I was hearing bigger nationwide things.
• 18:08
  And I remember I would sit on the bus and I would lean my head
• 18:12
  against the seat in
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: front of me with my headphones on
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: And just listen.
• 18:17
  And I remember when Check the Rhyme first came on and when
• 18:21
  Q-Tip starts rapping,
• 18:24
  I was like...
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: what the fuck is this?
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: This is something totally different than anything I've ever heard.
• 18:32
  And I think I was already sort of keying into the like
• 18:37
  Afrocentricity sort of wave
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: that was happening in hip hop at the time.
• 18:43
  It was probably around this time that I was like painting
• 18:46
  Africa on people's jeans
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: in high school.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: I was a junior in high school when this happened, I believe.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: And
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: And it just felt like something entirely new to me.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: I loved his voice.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: I loved his cadence.
• 19:04
  Now,
• 19:04
  looking back,
• 19:05
  it feels like jazz,
• 19:08
  which it obviously is very influenced by.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it was one of the first times I heard jazz being done in hip-hop.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: So it was just sonically so different.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so you had no knowledge of the first Tribe album at that point.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know what?
• 19:27
  I believe I had heard a little of it,
• 19:31
  but it never struck me as something entirely different.
• 19:35
  Like I'm pretty sure I had heard Left My Wallet and El Segundo
• 19:39
  and Bonita Applebaum.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, I'm pretty sure I heard them in art class.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: There was a kid named Chris Markey,
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: who ultimately tried to steal one of my pieces in art class.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: I still haven't forgiven him for that.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that's where I first heard Tribe.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: But it didn't.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: it just didn't affect me the way that Check the Rhyme did.
• 20:06
  There's something about the way Q-Tip raps on that song that to
• 20:11
  me feels like later
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: when we hear Snoop Dogg on the Shiznit,
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: which is from Doggy Style.
• 20:19
  And it's like this perfect flow over this really sparse beat
• 20:24
  that just feels like water flowing.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: And that's how Q-Tip seemed to me.
• 20:31
  different than the like choppy cadence of most rappers like
• 20:35
  almost effortless and
• 20:37
  not exactly doesn't have much to prove maybe in some way yep
• 20:40
  yep exactly he wasn't
• 20:42
  putting on a rap voice you know like i was already rapping at
• 20:46
  this time and i had a
• 20:47
  rap voice you know i was growly in my rap voice and and q-tip
• 20:51
  was not doing that he
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: was it just like you said it felt effortless
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:57
  One of the most fascinating things I've ever heard about rap
• 21:01
  voices is I think
• 21:02
  there's a movie called The Art of Rap that Ice-T put together
• 21:05
  and basically
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: spotlighted a bunch of different MCs.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: And Be Real from Cypress Hill used to rap in his normal voice.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: And somebody was like, you just sound like you don't sound like anything.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: You got to do something.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so he did this.
• 21:21
  nasally effect to his voice which made him extremely distinct
• 21:25
  and everybody knows
• 21:26
  what he sounds like um yeah it's so wild to hear him talk but
• 21:31
  yeah like you think
• 21:32
  of q-tip and like i would say even rakim is the same way where
• 21:35
  it's just like
• 21:36
  they're just basically not they're not performing this is how
• 21:38
  they talk this is how
• 21:39
  they like and it just seems so effortless um there's another
• 21:45
  story about rock oh go
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: ahead
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: Oh,
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: no,
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: it was different than the Public Enemy,
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: the KRS-1s who had these big booming voices and were preaching to you.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: This felt more like a conversation with you.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: It was so different.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: It still feels so different to me than the vast majority of rappers.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: Did you feel,
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: this may be completely off base,
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: but did you feel that Tribe Called The Quest being like sort of jazzy,
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: less aggressive hip hop,
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: did you feel more okay listening to it as a white guy as opposed to more
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: in-your-face acts like Public Enemy?
• 22:32
  Like Public Enemy to me,
• 22:33
  I was such a huge fan,
• 22:36
  but it kind of felt like it wasn't my music.
• 22:38
  It felt like I was kind of dipping in and being like,
• 22:40
  these lyrics are great.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: in no way ever about me or my experience in the world.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: I love it, you know, and I get it.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: I would not be blasting it out of the car driving around so much.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: Tribe, I maybe felt better about that.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: Does that ring true with you?
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe so.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: I hadn't ever really thought of it like that, but maybe so.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: There's definitely some truth there.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: I would definitely listen to Public Enemy.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: I was a big fan of Paris.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: Do you remember Paris?
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: It was really militant.
• 23:16
  I was listening to the first Paris album while painting a mural
• 23:21
  in a church once,
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: and the pastor came in and just his eyes got really wide.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: But you're right.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think I listened to that stuff mostly in private.
• 23:37
  And I'm not sure anyone that was in my like small growing at
• 23:43
  the time hip hop
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: circle knew I was a fan of Paris.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: It was like that was kept under wraps.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: Public Enemy a little bit.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: KRS-One a little more.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: And then I could definitely be very open about being a Tribe fan.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: And they still like, that's the stuff that I still put on.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like I definitely need to own that record and put that on.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was a slow burn for me.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: It was like,
• 24:11
  I think I sort of got into him through this scenario video on
• 24:14
  MTV and then bought
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: the low end theory on cassette and was like,
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: Oh,
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: and it just kind of,
• 24:21
  really found a home and was like something I ended up playing
• 24:24
  over and over and
• 24:24
  over again because of how mellow and interesting it was and
• 24:28
  layered and all those
• 24:29
  things so yeah yeah we still play it in the house quite a bit
• 24:34
  uh Annalisa puts it
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: on the record player you know maybe twice a month or something
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: as far as opening tracks go on any album ever,
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like,
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like it's Excursions is the first song,
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think so.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: Back in the days when I was a teen age.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:52
  I mean,
• 24:52
  like,
• 24:54
  it's just,
• 24:54
  it just announces itself in such a great fashion.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's hard to not just want to put that on.
• 25:01
  Yeah,
• 25:01
  and it's those years for me as well,
• 25:04
  like junior to senior in high school.
• 25:09
  Those years are definitely cemented in my – like the music of
• 25:16
  those years is
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: cemented in my memory.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I have so many – a lot of people have memories associated with smell.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: I don't.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think I have a single smell memory.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: but I have tons of sound memories and that era of music,
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: the like Tribe Called Quest,
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: the Chronic when it came out,
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: Doggy Style when it came out,
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: those moments of riding around in cars,
• 25:46
  listening to those songs are some of my most indelible images
• 25:53
  and memories.
• 25:55
  there's yeah that's interesting to hear you say that there's a
• 26:00
  youtuber i've
• 26:01
  watched some of his stuff nathan zed and he talks about he's a
• 26:04
  younger guy he's
• 26:05
  like in his 20s i think and he talks about music is only as
• 26:08
  good as the memory
• 26:10
  associated with it and you know when you're young you're having
• 26:15
  experiences to the
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: music even if it is just riding around the car with your buddies but
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like nowadays,
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: if I'm listening to music,
• 26:21
  most of the time I'm sitting in front of a computer trying to
• 26:24
  write or trying to
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: draw or trying to work,
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: it's like,
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: well,
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: yeah,
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: no wonder I'm not into new music anymore.
• 26:30
  All I'm doing is like looking at spreadsheets and like trying
• 26:33
  to tap out words like
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: those aren't.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: I love doing that,
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: but it's not a fun memory that you're associating this visual with,
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: like riding the school bus or getting high with your buddy or whatever.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I've done lately that I really like the last few years?
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: Anytime a new album comes out that I want to listen to,
• 26:54
  I save it until I'm either going on a long drive or I'm going
• 27:00
  to go hiking
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: somewhere,
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: searching for boulders in the mountains or whatever.
• 27:05
  And sometimes it's a little scary to have headphones on while
• 27:08
  you're walking through the woods.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: But that's the way I consume new music now.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: And it does.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly what you said.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: It sort of creates memories.
• 27:20
  I can remember where I was when I heard Kendrick Lamar's Rich
• 27:25
  Spirit off the Mr.
• 27:26
  Morale album.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: I remember where in the woods I was when that song came on.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: And
• 27:32
  And the beat sounded like a tribe beat and,
• 27:35
  you know,
• 27:36
  a modern day tribe beat.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, whoa.
• 27:39
  And those memories stick with me better than if I'm doing
• 27:44
  exactly what you are
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: doing,
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: because that's what I would be doing normally.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: Turn it on while I'm trying to work.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: And then you're seeking out music that's not going to distract you too,
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: which is also not as,
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: have you ever been back to that church you painted with the,
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: when,
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: with the Paris album playing?
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it was, it was a church I went to.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I got, I got kicked out of that church when I was 16.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: They, they asked me to not return.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, what's that?
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: I asked too many questions.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's tough.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: I loved the stories in the Bible,
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: and so I had read it multiple times,
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: and I was starting to see these inconsistencies,
• 28:30
  both in the stories and in the way the pastor and the Sunday
• 28:35
  school teachers talked
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: about it.
• 28:37
  So I would ask these questions about the inconsistencies and
• 28:41
  inevitably the Sunday
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: school teachers would call the pastor down and you have to talk to him.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: He's got another one of those questions.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: And eventually they just got so flustered.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: They were like, we can't have these distractions every single Sunday.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: So we'd like it if you just didn't come back.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: How did you feel?
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe vindicated.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: I just felt like, all right, I've been doing the right thing.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: Asking questions has been right.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: And now I can leave here and feel okay about it.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's interesting.
• 29:19
  I think a lot of people would be like,
• 29:21
  okay,
• 29:21
  I guess I'm going to hell now.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, not me.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: Different relationship.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's fantastic.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, next thing is to kill a mockingbird.
• 29:33
  And you said in text to me that this could be either the book
• 29:37
  or the movie.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I got them both around the same time.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: It was high school again.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: Several of these things happened around the same point in my life.
• 29:50
  And it was also around the time in my life when I didn't have a
• 29:56
  good home situation.
• 29:57
  So I left home around this same time and just bounced around
• 30:02
  with friends.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: I lived in a park one summer and school was like my anchor.
• 30:11
  So To Kill a Mockingbird was a school reading,
• 30:16
  like a summer reading project for English class.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: I was in the AP English.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: And over the summer, you had to read and do these book reports.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: And To Kill a Mockingbird was one of those book reports.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I watched the movie at the same time because I'm like,
• 30:33
  I can shortcut this process if I just watch the movie instead
• 30:37
  of reading the book.
• 30:39
  But I fell in love with the character of Atticus Finch,
• 30:43
  which I think a lot of people did.
• 30:45
  I think he's been called the best literary hero multiple times
• 30:51
  or something.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: And it felt to me like he was doing something...
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: that I needed or wanted to do.
• 31:02
  He was willing to stand up despite the culture that he lived in
• 31:08
  and to do it in a
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: really public way.
• 31:11
  And that to me felt important because I grew up in this very
• 31:18
  white neighborhood
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: around a bunch of people who were very racist.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: I got in a lot of fights because I dressed like a black kid and,
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: dressed like hip hop culture and,
• 31:29
  And it just felt like that I needed to take that up as my
• 31:37
  mantle,
• 31:38
  you know?
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if that's a good lesson to have gotten from it.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: My stance has softened a little bit in some ways over the years.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: But that's what I got from it initially.
• 31:54
  And there's a scene in the movie and in the book where he's in
• 31:57
  the courtroom and the—
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: The upper balcony is where all the black folks sat in the courtroom,
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: and they stay after the trial's over.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: And as he walks out,
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: he's packing up his things,
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: and as he walks out,
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: they stand up,
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: and they just appreciate that he was helping,
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: and that scene was just etched in my memory for a long time.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think that,
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: like you said,
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: your stance is softened,
• 32:34
  but do you think it still affects some of the things you do as
• 32:38
  an adult and or as a
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: father and a grandfather at this point?
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: One thousand percent.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: The only part of my stance that's softened is...
• 32:52
  being as public about it I still definitely go that direction
• 32:57
  sometimes when I feel
• 32:58
  it's necessary but now I feel like there's more work that can
• 33:03
  be done in the
• 33:03
  background and actually I've since read Ghosts at a Watchman
• 33:09
  which is Harper Lee's
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: follow-up essentially and
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: That book exposes all these flaws in Atticus.
• 33:21
  It essentially paints him as a racist,
• 33:23
  and a lot of people got really upset about that.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like,
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: it's the South,
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: and of course he was going to be a racist to some degree.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: And painting those flaws was really important to me.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: It helped me understand, oh, I have my own...
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: racist tendencies that have been built into my culture and my privilege.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: And understanding those things is a lifelong pursuit.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to take my entire life.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to be figuring those things out for my entire life.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: Ideally, yeah, right?
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: And as far as as a father and grandfather...
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: I had my daughter watch the movie when she was fairly little,
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: and she watched it with me and was confused.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why are they treating him this way?
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I had to explain to her.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that moment helped her not overlook things,
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: not look past things,
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: and be okay with standing up,
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: coming to me when she sees something that doesn't look right.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: So...
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think it certainly influences me as a father,
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: grandfather,
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: human partner,
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: friend,
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: all of those things.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it was a necessary thing for me to see when I saw it.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:09
  Um,
• 35:09
  I think about like 2020 and George Floyd protests and stuff
• 35:14
  like that.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I, I,
• 35:17
  should do something or and i ended up doing a lot of different
• 35:19
  things some um more
• 35:22
  active out front like um going to protest marches and stuff
• 35:26
  like that and then
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: other things that were just like maybe i just need to help with money or
• 35:31
  fundraising or uplifting such and such voice or whatever and
• 35:35
  but the thing that
• 35:36
  sort of spurred me onto it was this feeling from being a
• 35:39
  teenager and like
• 35:41
  You can't have listened to all these public enemy records for
• 35:43
  so long and then just
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: not do anything.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: The 15-year-old, you would be so sad that that's what you ended up being.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: What would Chuck D say about what I'm doing right now?
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: Chuck D is the voice in all of our heads.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: Or the like...
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: you know, your, your dreams of what you wanted to be when you grew up.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then you're like,
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't just want to be like,
• 36:13
  not like 15 year old me would be so disappointed in me if I
• 36:17
  didn't just do
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: something.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I think,
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's kind of what you're,
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: what you're saying about,
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: about to kill a mockingbird in some ways.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: And it, you know, and I know for a lot of people, um,
• 36:30
  of the you know and it's been going this direction for a long
• 36:34
  time of the like
• 36:35
  short attention span generation which is maybe just all of time
• 36:40
  you know our
• 36:41
  attention spans are just shortening more and more and more i
• 36:44
  know reading those
• 36:45
  novels is hard for a lot of people and they don't want to watch
• 36:49
  these old black and
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: white movies and
• 36:52
  I,
• 36:53
  years later,
• 36:54
  I approached a friend of mine who was a producer,
• 36:59
  a beat maker.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I want to make a project.
• 37:03
  You're the person to make this project with because your beats
• 37:06
  are really musical.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's how they feel to me.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, they're cinematic.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: And what I want to do is make an album called To Mock a Killing Bird that
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: essentially follows the themes of To Kill a Mockingbird.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well then, like two weeks after me pitching this idea,
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: The woman who was DJing for me at the time, her name was Digital Kate.
• 37:35
  She was in Chicago and found the vinyl soundtrack for To Kill a
• 37:41
  Mockingbird,
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: the Elmer Bernstein score.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: And she handed it to me.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: I immediately handed it to Il Poetic,
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: the producer,
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: and said,
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: I want all the beats made from this.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: Sample this for every beat.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: And here's the outline I want.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: I want this setup beat.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: I want this beat that builds anticipation.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: I want this really big, dramatic, thematic sort of anthem beat.
• 38:15
  And I gave him all this outline and he delivered the beats to
• 38:19
  me and it took me,
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know,
• 38:22
  five or six years to write to it because they were so beautiful
• 38:27
  as he delivered
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: them.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: I just couldn't feel like I was matching it.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: It took me a long time to write to it.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: And when I did, I really love what I ended up with.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: And it's on Spotify, probably illegally, but it's on there.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: Wouldn't they flag that though, if it was illegally?
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure it's illegal.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure that soundtrack is copyrighted.
• 38:58
  It's not old enough to be in public domain,
• 39:03
  even though it's essentially classical music.
• 39:06
  they're going to,
• 39:06
  they're going to sue you for like 57 cents from your royalties.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_01: We'll settle up if they do.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: One billable lawyer hour.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:20
  I was going to bring that up,
• 39:21
  but I'm glad you,
• 39:22
  I'm glad you just brought it up.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's great.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_01: Your next one,
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: almost everybody in the,
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: who almost everybody's probably seen this painting,
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: Edward Hopper's painting,
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_01: Nighthawks.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: Can you describe what it looks like?
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's from the outside of a diner looking in.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's like dark reds and greens all around the diner.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's dark outside and it's lit up inside the diner.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: And they're in the diner.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: There is behind the counter a male figure who is like the soda jerk.
• 40:06
  And then at the counter on the left side are a man and woman
• 40:10
  talking and you can
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: see their faces.
• 40:13
  And then with his back to you at the counter is a solo male
• 40:19
  figure sitting there.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: And it's an all-glass diner that wraps around a corner,
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: kind of this classic 1950s-style diner that you would imagine.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: It feels very lonely.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's in the Art Institute of Chicago, I think, right now.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, yep.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: Where did you see it?
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_01: You have the date on here, 1991, 1992.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_01: A very fertile time for your... Yeah, yeah.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how I first saw it, but...
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: I don't remember where the first time I saw it was,
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: but I know when I saw it,
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: there was just some quality about it that,
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: similar to when I heard hip-hop for the first time,
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: that just spoke to me in a different way.
• 41:12
  Some quality about the loneliness he was depicting in,
• 41:17
  obviously in a city.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: You can tell this place is probably bustling during the day,
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: But these are the hours when no one is there.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: And something about that spoke to me.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: And as I looked more and more into Hopper's work, he does this a lot.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of loneliness in his work in these really amazing,
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: rich,
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: dark colors with one point of light somewhere in the painting.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I ended up,
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: my junior and senior year of high school,
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: for the International Baccalaureate Art Program,
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: I did a two-year study of Hopper.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: And it was spurred on by Nighthawks.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't remember when I first saw it,
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: but I do know that it resonated with me on a different level.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: And what happened to you before?
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_01: Besides the International Baccalaureate study,
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_01: what happened to you because of that painting then?
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know what?
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_00: As I started studying Hopper more and more,
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: I realized that particularly in this painting,
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: I identify with all three male figures in the painting.
• 42:36
  And for me,
• 42:37
  it's like I really love deep conversation with a person where –
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I prefer to do them all in person on my podcast.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I love that style of sitting next to someone or across from someone,
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_00: looking at them,
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: talking to them for hours.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's one of my favorite things in the world.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I imagine those two,
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: the couple,
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: the male and female figures sitting at the counter whose faces we see.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I imagine they're doing.
• 43:13
  They've escaped this bustling city in the hours when everyone
• 43:17
  else is asleep and
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: they're in there only paying attention to each other.
• 43:24
  And then the solo man,
• 43:26
  a lot of my life has been spent trying to escape the bustle.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know, finding a way within all of this chaos to be still.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_00: I create the chaos for myself a lot of the time,
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: but I still need to find a still place inside of it.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I imagine that solo figure at the counter is doing.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_00: And then the soda jerk is this observer.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: He's, he's listening into the conversation that the couple are having.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 44:07
  he's trying to ask the solo man enough questions that it
• 44:11
  doesn't seem like he's
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: prying,
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: but,
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: but he's,
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: he's constructing a story for himself of what this solo guy's story is.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and I love to be the observer.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: So for me,
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: I just identify with all three of them,
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_00: and it depends on the day when I look at the painting.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: I've walked to it and looked at it multiple times in Chicago.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: Whenever I've been in Chicago,
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: I go to the museum,
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: I go look at that painting,
• 44:45
  and inevitably I'm standing there much longer than I think I am
• 44:49
  staring at this
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: painting.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_00: And it depends on the day which figure I...
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I, I, which figure feels like me in the painting.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's always one of them.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_00: Did you ever work in, uh, restaurants or in retail?
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_00: I worked in a pizza place for a number of years.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: I guess we didn't say that in my job.
• 45:17
  I managed a pizza place for quite a number of years at the same
• 45:20
  time as I was
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_00: teaching country line dancing,
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: actually,
• 45:24
  because I would leave the country bar and I would go to the
• 45:28
  pizza place knowing
• 45:29
  that there was no way I was getting up early enough to come and
• 45:33
  open the pizza
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: place in the morning and
• 45:35
  So I would lay out the hot bags,
• 45:38
  you know,
• 45:38
  the big thick bags that pizza delivery guys carry.
• 45:41
  I would lay those out and I would sleep on the bottom level of
• 45:45
  a prep table on hot
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_00: bags and I would just get up in the morning and start working.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, there's your life as the soda jerk, I think.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 46:00
  One of the things I miss about working in food service or
• 46:03
  retail is those micro
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: interactions you get with people where it could turn into something.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it could turn into a bigger conversation.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: Most of the time it doesn't,
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_01: but you get to know so many people's stories by just like this sort of...
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_01: you know, necessary interaction that you have with them.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_01: You have to talk in order to,
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_01: to take their order or find them the thing they need,
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: they're trying to buy or whatever.
• 46:26
  And then you get,
• 46:26
  you get a little bit of their story and we just don't working
• 46:29
  from home.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_01: We just don't get that.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like you have to go seek it out.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_01: It was, it's a fun, fun way to experience the world.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's also one of the reasons I still enjoy doing events,
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: emceeing events,
• 46:43
  is because I get to have a lot of those little micro
• 46:46
  interactions with people.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I get my fill of deep conversations through the podcast.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: But then you're right.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: Those little micro interactions are so important.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: Real jobs.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_01: So overrated.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_01: Or underrated.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_01: So last one.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_01: You're doing good on time.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm good.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_01: Last one.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_01: I would say this is the one I'm the least familiar with.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_01: The Doomtree album No Kings from...
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I don't know.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_01: You have 2011, 2012.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think I found it at the end of 2011.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_00: So through that winter, it was a staple.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 47:35
  Why was it important to you then besides the fact that it's
• 47:38
  Midwest hip hop?
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_00: Well, a couple of reasons.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: The collective of Doomtree,
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 47:46
  is really important in that they're radically differing styles
• 47:51
  that are all coming
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: together to create this thing.
• 47:57
  But then also because my oldest daughter,
• 48:01
  Katie,
• 48:01
  was a teenager at the time.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_00: And my now wife had moved to Cincinnati and was living with us.
• 48:10
  And this collective had all the right pieces in place that we
• 48:17
  could all relate to.
• 48:20
  And as a result of that,
• 48:22
  we went to a bunch of different Doomtree shows together.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_00: Caitlin had just turned old enough to get into these shows,
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: and we would find places where we could all go together.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know exactly how many shows,
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_00: but quite a few,
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_00: whether it was Doomtree or the individuals doing their own solo shows.
• 48:47
  So it was really fun to connect with both of them over this
• 48:53
  music that I loved.
• 48:55
  Annalisa was born in Wyoming,
• 48:57
  lived and grew up in Wyoming,
• 48:59
  didn't know much about hip hop.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then Caitlin getting to go to her first live events.
• 49:07
  She had been to a festival called Scribble Jam that we had in
• 49:10
  Cincinnati a bunch of
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_00: times,
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_00: but was still a little kid while that was happening.
• 49:15
  so then the doom tree shows when she was an older teenager
• 49:19
  were,
• 49:20
  were huge for her.
• 49:21
  They were like the first shows where she gets to talk to these
• 49:25
  artists that she
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_00: really admires,
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: and,
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_00: and be really nervous around them.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_00: And,
• 49:32
  and now she has these photos and these memories of going to
• 49:36
  these shows and meeting
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_00: these artists.
• 49:38
  And,
• 49:39
  and we would travel,
• 49:39
  you know,
• 49:40
  we would drive to Minneapolis to,
• 49:42
  to go to a show.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 49:44
  and that was a new thing for her so that bonding experience for
• 49:49
  me felt felt really
• 49:52
  great and and really important to have with a a teenage girl
• 49:57
  who was was going
• 49:59
  through it in her life you know and to be able to have that to
• 50:02
  root her and to bond
• 50:04
  her to me was big yes i want to say it's like the family bible
• 50:09
  but it's not like
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_01: the family bible it's like the family uh
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's the family tradition or family.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's the family sports team, you know, almost like.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 50:20
  That's sort of how it felt,
• 50:21
  you know,
• 50:22
  like the Christmas presents were Doomtree related.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, it was the trips were all Doomtree related.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 50:34
  Some really big life moments came because of Doomtree and
• 50:38
  Doomtree shows.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_00: I remember going to a Dessa concert.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_00: Dessa's one of the MCs in Doomtree.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_00: And she's amazing live.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_00: She's so good and so commanding, this huge presence on stage.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_00: And we went to a Dessa show with Caitlin.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_00: And a couple of things happened at that show that were really important.
• 51:04
  Caitlin was holding her phone up and recording the show while
• 51:08
  watching the screen of her phone.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, what the fuck are you doing?
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_00: Put your phone away.
• 51:14
  If you want to watch this on your phone,
• 51:17
  you can do that tomorrow on YouTube.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_00: See all these other 50 people in here with their phones up?
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_00: They're going to post that on the internet.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_00: So you'll be able to watch it if you want to see it that way.
• 51:27
  Right now,
• 51:28
  watch it through your eyeballs instead of through your phone
• 51:31
  screen.
• 51:32
  And at first she's like,
• 51:34
  dad,
• 51:34
  you just don't know,
• 51:35
  you know,
• 51:36
  but,
• 51:37
  but she got the message.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then the next Dessa show she went to was only with Annalisa.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_00: I was out of town and she didn't even take her phone into the venue.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_00: She left it in the car on purpose.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_00: And,
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_00: And to me, that was huge.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_00: We just had this one conversation about it.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_00: Once she put her phone away and watched the show, she got it.
• 51:57
  She felt that this was different than just having a record of
• 52:01
  having been there.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_00: And at the end of that first Dessa show...
• 52:07
  I,
• 52:08
  I introduced her to Dessa,
• 52:09
  um,
• 52:10
  who I had met a few times through hip hop.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like,
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_00: I've got my daughter's phone and I'm trying to take a picture with,
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_00: with the two of them.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I can't figure out how to work this camera, you know?
• 52:24
  And Caitlin's getting really frustrated that I'm not working
• 52:27
  the camera correctly.
• 52:29
  And finally,
• 52:29
  Dessa just snatches the phone from me and takes this selfie and
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_00: with she and Caitlin.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it's this really amazing picture of my,
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think she was 16 or 17 at the time,
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_00: your old daughter with the musician she most admired,
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_00: and it's the musician taking a selfie of them.
• 52:49
  So she's got that photo that reminds her of this lesson of be
• 52:56
  present there for
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_00: these events,
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_00: for this art.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's a fantastic story.
• 53:04
  Also,
• 53:04
  those concert videos and photos you take on your phone just
• 53:09
  aren't that good,
• 53:10
  man.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_01: So he's like, yeah, there they are.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_01: They're right there.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_01: See that little dot?
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_01: And the audio is terrible.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's great.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_00: Quick story.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_00: The first solo Dessa show I ever went to was with Annalisa.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_00: I was in Louisville, Kentucky at this little bar.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_00: And...
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_00: One of the most impressive things I've ever seen a rapper do,
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_00: Annalisa loves to be at the front of the stage.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_00: So we have to be there early.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_00: We have to be standing in front of the stage before the rapper comes on.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then she raps full force all the lyrics back at the person.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's really amazing to watch.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_00: You should see it sometime.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_00: So we're up in the front of the stage.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_00: Dessa's performing.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_00: And this guy comes, he scoots in front of Annalisa, and he's like 6'6".
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_00: He's all in white,
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_00: he's got these bright white shoes on,
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_00: super well-dressed,
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_00: and he's definitely trying to get Dessa's attention.
• 54:18
  And I'm pissed because he just walked in front of my,
• 54:22
  you know,
• 54:22
  at the time fiance.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, well, I'm not moving for you.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm crowding him,
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 54:29
  and I'm like stepping on his bright white shoes and he's
• 54:33
  getting annoyed at me,
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_00: but he won't take his attention away from Dessa.
• 54:37
  And Dessa comes down into the audience and is rapping and he's
• 54:41
  getting really close to her.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_00: And without missing a beat, without getting off beat,
• 54:48
  She looks him in his face and says,
• 54:51
  I'm glad that you're here,
• 54:52
  but you do not touch me.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_00: And she goes right back into the song and everybody goes wild.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_00: And this dude turns bright red and slinks away.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_00: One of the most impressive things I've ever seen.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then you didn't have to get in a fight with this big 6'6 guy.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly, because it would have been a bad move on my part.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, man.
• 55:24
  Is there a Doomtree or one of the Doomtree artists' songs
• 55:28
  that's kind of shared
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_01: between the three of you that is a co-favorite,
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_01: or is it just...
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_01: the entire collective and the experiences.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's hard to pinpoint a co-favorite.
• 55:45
  If I were going to go with anything,
• 55:47
  it certainly is going to be a POS song.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_00: He's one of the MCs.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_00: He's my favorite MC from the group.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_00: Annalisa's favorite MC from the group.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe Caitlin's as well.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_00: And
• 56:03
  As far as which song,
• 56:05
  I'm not sure,
• 56:07
  but I would say maybe Fuck Your Stuff.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's Caitlin's favorite.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's certainly one of mine.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 56:20
  Do you think it's more of a lyrical relationship or is it just
• 56:25
  musical or overall?
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's a feeling thing.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_00: He has this very in-your-face but really clever and personable style.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_00: And especially if you see him perform, he's...
• 56:44
  top three hip hop performers i've ever seen karis one dougie
• 56:48
  fresh pos and he's so
• 56:54
  personable but he's also saying things that are absolutely in
• 56:59
  your face and you
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_00: know you're guilty um that's sort of the feeling of a lot of his music is
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_00: confrontational but but with a smile
• 57:11
  huh that's that's interesting that's a really that's an
• 57:15
  interesting relationship to
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_01: have with with that stuff
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's really neat.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_00: We discovered years later,
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_00: actually,
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_00: and I have a photo of it somewhere,
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_00: that Caitlin was going through an old notebook of hers from pre-Doomtree,
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_00: like us discovering Doomtree together.
• 57:39
  And we had met POS when he was the merch guy at an atmosphere
• 57:44
  booth at Scribble Jam.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_00: And he gave Caitlin a sticker that said, POS ruined my life.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_00: And she had it on her notebook.
• 57:55
  And we were both like,
• 57:56
  wow,
• 57:57
  you met this dude years before we were listening to his music.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_01: When he was like the intern, basically.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's fantastic.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, this has been a great five things.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_01: What did you leave off the list?
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, boy.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_00: I left a lot of things off this list.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_00: The thing I really wrestled with not putting on the list...
• 58:27
  It's actually a thing I don't like,
• 58:29
  and this is why I didn't put it on the list.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's not one of my favorites,
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_00: but it's one of the most impactful pieces of writing I've ever read.
• 58:37
  And that was an article,
• 58:39
  I believe it was a men's journal,
• 58:42
  called The Man Who Fell to Earth.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_00: It was a story about Todd Skinner shortly after he died.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_00: And...
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_00: when I was walking through an airport once,
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_00: I saw it sitting in a magazine rack and the cover said,
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_00: death of the world's greatest rock climber or something like that.
• 59:01
  And I was like,
• 59:01
  I have to read this article because I want to know what they
• 59:04
  get wrong.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_00: I love,
• 59:06
  I love reading articles from journalists who know nothing about
• 59:10
  the topic and
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_00: totally sensationalize it so that I can just be like,
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_00: wow,
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_00: you're an idiot,
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_00: you know?
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_00: I read this article and it's exactly what they do.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_00: They sensationalize rock climbing as if it's this adrenaline-fueled,
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_00: extreme sport that everyone in it has a death wish.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_00: And Todd Gobble was coming to him.
• 59:34
  But when I opened the magazine,
• 59:37
  there was a painting as the,
• 59:39
  like,
• 59:40
  cover image.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_00: And the painting was beautiful.
• 59:45
  this really well-executed watercolor of Todd falling with his
• 59:53
  harness clearly
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_00: broken in the painting.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought,
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_00: I had this struggle going on in my head because I'm like,
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_00: wow,
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_00: this is really well-executed.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's beautiful.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, this guy had a family and friends.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_00: How do they feel about seeing this
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_00: And shortly after reading that article, it stuck with me.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_00: I heard a song by a singer named Misty Murphy,
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_00: and in the chorus of her song,
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_00: she talks about endlessly floating.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_00: And...
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_00: While I was listening to her music,
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_00: I was talking to a friend of mine,
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_00: an artist friend of mine,
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_00: and I asked him what he thought about this painting.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_00: I gave him a little bit of backstory.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, what do you think about this?
• 1:00:45
  And as soon as I showed it to him,
• 1:00:47
  he said,
• 1:00:47
  well,
• 1:00:48
  he's not falling,
• 1:00:48
  he's floating.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, wow, maybe he is.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then I used Misty's song.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_00: I sampled it.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_00: I made a new song out of it called Float.
• 1:01:01
  And that song brought me to Lander,
• 1:01:03
  Wyoming to perform at the Climbers Festival.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's where I live today.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_00: I met the woman I'm married to because of that song.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_00: She was the nanny for Todd Skinner.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_00: And his family introduced us.
• 1:01:18
  So seeing that article in that airport had dramatically changed
• 1:01:23
  the course of my life.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_00: But it's not one of my favorites.
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's just something that had a dramatic impact.
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_00: So it didn't make the list.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's interesting.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe this should be the five most important things.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's, that's a, huh?
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_01: And well, okay.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_01: You just got six out of, out of five.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's man.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_01: This has been fantastic.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for doing this.
• 1:01:51
  I'll put in some notes where people can find your stuff and
• 1:01:53
  link to all the things
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_01: we mentioned here,
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_01: which I think is probably the best part about doing this,
• 1:02:00
  like getting recommendations from real human beings instead of
• 1:02:02
  algorithms,
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_00: you know?
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, totally.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_00: Well,
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 1:02:06
  this was such a fun exercise to have to think about the pieces
• 1:02:11
  of art that I've
• 1:02:11
  come into contact with that have really affected me and have
• 1:02:20
  created who I am today
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_00: in a lot of ways.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_00: All of these things have little parts that are part of me.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to end there.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, dude.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, man.