Latest / Left of the Projector / Being John Malcovich with Cut Off the Spigot

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Being John Malcovich with Cut Off the Spigot · Left of the Projector

• 0:17
  Track 2: Hello, and welcome to Left of the Projector. I'm your host, Bill,
• 0:19
  Track 2: back again with another film discussion from the West.
• 0:21
  Track 2: If you'd like to support the show for as little as $3 a month,
• 0:24
  Track 2: you can go to Patreon forward slash Left of the Projector pod.
• 0:27
  Track 2: If you like the dress and style, we've got shirts and at leftoftheprojectorpod.threadless.com.
• 0:33
  Track 2: Show everyone you got the best taste around. Wherever you're listening,
• 0:36
  Track 2: give us a rating and subscribe so you'll get notified of our weekly episodes
• 0:39
  Track 2: that drop every Tuesday. Now, onto the show.
• 0:47
  Track 2: This week on Left of the Projector, we will be taking a ride up to the seventh
• 0:51
  Track 2: floor, or more appropriately, the seventh and a half floor,
• 0:55
  Track 2: and entering the mind of someone, maybe it's Gareth Edwards,
• 1:00
  Track 2: maybe it's Wallace Shawn, actually, no, unfortunately, for legal reasons,
• 1:04
  Track 2: we can't share any more about that.
• 1:05
  Track 2: But instead, we will be taking a trip back to the year 1999,
• 1:09
  Track 2: and for some reason, people are able to drive from Midtown Manhattan to the
• 1:13
  Track 2: New Jersey Turnpike in under 15 minutes.
• 1:14
  Track 2: The film we will be discussing is Spike Jonze, being John Malkovich,
• 1:19
  Track 2: the film stars John Cusack, Cameron Diaz, Catherine Keener, Mary Kay Place,
• 1:24
  Track 2: and of course, some guy named John Malkovich.
• 1:26
  Track 2: Our guest tonight is friend of the show, Alexa Speed, who you may know better
• 1:29
  Track 2: as Cut Off the Spigot on all platforms.
• 1:31
  Track 2: And as always, I have my co-hosts, Evan and Ward. Welcome back to the show, Alexa.
• 1:37
  Track 4: Yeah, thanks so much for having me back.
• 1:39
  Track 3: That's great to have you.
• 1:41
  Track 1: Of course. So we recently had done The Prestige, but when you were sort of like
• 1:47
  Track 1: picking movies, this one was also one of the ones.
• 1:52
  Track 1: So I'm wondering why you wanted to talk about it.
• 1:55
  Track 4: Well, similar to The Prestige, I had seen it when it came out and I remembered really liking it.
• 2:01
  Track 4: And so I was like, well, this is a great excuse to watch it again.
• 2:05
  Track 4: And I do have to say, I really loved it when it came out, but I didn't remember
• 2:12
  Track 4: much of that actual plot or themes.
• 2:16
  Track 4: And watching it a second time, I definitely hated some of the characters a lot more.
• 2:23
  Track 2: Oh, almost none of the characters in the movie are likable, other than Elijah.
• 2:30
  Track 2: Elijah's the most likable character.
• 2:32
  Track 4: And he shouldn't even be there because, like...
• 2:35
  Track 2: He's a chimp. Yeah, I was like...
• 2:39
  Track 4: Like, I knew this didn't happen in the movie, but I was like,
• 2:42
  Track 4: he's going to rip her face off.
• 2:44
  Track 4: Like, this is not...
• 2:47
  Track 2: I felt so bad for Elijah.
• 2:49
  Track 4: Me too.
• 2:50
  Track 1: Similar to you, Alexa, I hadn't seen this movie, I don't think,
• 2:53
  Track 1: since it came out or, like, near the time.
• 2:56
  Track 1: I had no memory of anything past about the 30th minute in this movie.
• 3:00
  Track 1: I didn't know the middle. I didn't remember the ending.
• 3:02
  Track 1: It just was nothing. None of that registered in my mind. So I felt almost like
• 3:06
  Track 1: I was watching it for the first time.
• 3:08
  Track 4: Yeah, that's kind of how I felt as well. Like I knew some of it,
• 3:11
  Track 4: but then actually going, like watching the movie, I was like,
• 3:14
  Track 4: oh, I don't remember any of this.
• 3:16
  Track 2: Word, had you seen this before?
• 3:18
  Track 3: Yeah, near the time it came out, and I got the exact same reaction where I was
• 3:22
  Track 3: like, I remember this being different.
• 3:25
  Track 3: I thought they were just having fun being John Malkovich.
• 3:27
  Track 4: Yeah, that's what I was thinking too.
• 3:30
  Track 3: And I watched it, I'm like, oh, these people are all terrible.
• 3:34
  Track 3: Oh, this gets so much worse. I don't remember any of this at all.
• 3:39
  Track 2: It's so much deeper than just vacation in John Malkovich's body.
• 3:45
  Track 2: There is lore to this movie.
• 3:48
  Track 2: Like, there's a deep lore to this movie that is fucked up and weird.
• 3:54
  Track 3: Yeah.
• 3:55
  Track 4: Yeah.
• 3:56
  Track 3: And all I could remember was that it was just fun vacation Malkovich time. Like, what the fuck?
• 4:02
  Track 4: That's pretty much exactly how I felt. I was like, this was fun,
• 4:06
  Track 4: wasn't it? And then it was like, oh, no.
• 4:10
  Track 2: No.
• 4:11
  Track 1: No, it's not. I would urge anyone who's listening and they maybe haven't seen
• 4:15
  Track 1: in a while, definitely watch it before.
• 4:18
  Track 1: because you may have the same exact reaction to all of us is,
• 4:23
  Track 1: oh, that's what happened in that movie.
• 4:25
  Track 2: It's not just that. It's also like the deep weirdness of it.
• 4:30
  Track 2: Like this is a weird alternate universe that has weird rules,
• 4:36
  Track 2: including the fact that puppeteers can be famous.
• 4:40
  Track 4: Yeah.
• 4:41
  Track 2: That in and of itself is fucking like, what was it? What was the, rival puppeteer.
• 4:52
  Track 4: Mannequin yeah he had the giant puppet and then yeah.
• 4:55
  Track 2: The the the giant who was it sylvia plath i don't remember i think i'm gonna
• 5:02
  Track 2: actually i think oh was it jane austen the giant jane austen puppet i think
• 5:05
  Track 2: it was jane austen and it's like nobody would what is this it's so bizarre the
• 5:10
  Track 2: concept of puppeteering being.
• 5:12
  Track 4: I honestly felt like someone being
• 5:15
  Track 4: famous for puppeteering is some like
• 5:19
  Track 4: i could see like if someone truly was
• 5:22
  Track 4: talented and took puppeteering in a unique way that
• 5:26
  Track 4: it could blow up and be like this new like revitalized
• 5:30
  Track 4: popular art form outside of muppets i'm not including i could see like puppeteering
• 5:36
  Track 4: being a thing if there was a really cool show but the the rest of the universe
• 5:43
  Track 4: is definitely like in an alternate world and i think you really start to feel that when you're,
• 5:49
  Track 4: Like he goes in for the interview and the older man who is like the owner of
• 5:56
  Track 4: the company is just really sexual and stuff like all of a sudden.
• 6:01
  Track 4: And that was just like, why is he doing like my reaction was just like, why is he doing this?
• 6:07
  Track 4: Like, I know there's going to be a portal at some point, but this just feels weird.
• 6:11
  Track 1: And we have to point out that that actor's name is Orson Bean.
• 6:17
  Track 4: He's Mr. Bean.
• 6:18
  Track 1: Which is a great name.
• 6:20
  Track 2: Which is weirder than his name in the movie. I just want to point that out.
• 6:24
  Track 1: And we mentioned all the characters in it, but sort of as a very brief sketch.
• 6:30
  Track 1: So John Cusack and Cameron Diaz's character are married, and that's Craig and Lottie.
• 6:36
  Track 1: And he's a puppeteer. And they also have a really big apartment in New York
• 6:41
  Track 1: on presumably one salary?
• 6:45
  Track 2: Is it a big apartment?
• 6:47
  Track 1: I mean, he has a whole puppeteering room, plus a whole bedroom.
• 6:51
  Track 2: That looked like a really shitty closet. And they were like in a basement.
• 6:56
  Track 2: That was like a basement apartment.
• 6:58
  Track 1: Yeah, I guess that's right. But, well, so they're living there.
• 7:01
  Track 1: He goes, as you said, Alex, he goes to an interview at this very strange company
• 7:07
  Track 1: that has a half of a floor and...
• 7:12
  Track 1: Even crazier is then they have a video that explains why they have this middle floor.
• 7:18
  Track 1: And that's the point where I didn't remember any of the movie bits.
• 7:24
  Track 1: Like, what is going on here?
• 7:28
  Track 4: That part i did think was really funny because i could imagine being in corporate
• 7:34
  Track 4: america and working like in a half the height floor.
• 7:39
  Track 2: And having the.
• 7:42
  Track 4: Orientation video to explain where it came from because that part like although
• 7:49
  Track 4: it is weird it it definitely made sense to me,
• 7:54
  Track 4: like this is why we have the seventh and a half floor and.
• 7:59
  Track 1: They file the company is a filing company i don't really understand what that.
• 8:03
  Track 2: Means exactly this movie feels like it's out of like time and space like.
• 8:09
  Track 3: It doesn't have to make sense there's a portal into a man.
• 8:12
  Track 2: Yeah yeah the fact that it's a company that
• 8:15
  Track 2: files is the least weird thing like let's
• 8:18
  Track 2: let's be real but you
• 8:21
  Track 2: hear them you hear like the people in
• 8:24
  Track 2: the business at some point like taking calls from customers that are
• 8:27
  Track 2: like oh what's that what's that you know like oh
• 8:30
  Track 2: what's the name like uh what's the file like name or whatever like they're they're
• 8:34
  Track 2: like going and looking it up it's almost like they're like the analog version
• 8:38
  Track 2: of like a data server like that's what that's really what it seems like that's
• 8:43
  Track 2: their business they're the analog version of a server bank yeah.
• 8:48
  Track 4: That's the way i kind of i mean there probably was some sort of filing companies
• 8:53
  Track 4: or something back in the day right.
• 8:57
  Track 2: That's a good question.
• 8:57
  Track 1: I'm sure there was. And the thing that also throws you, and I read this on Wikipedia,
• 9:05
  Track 1: is that both John Cusack, he has a long ponytail and very disheveled.
• 9:10
  Track 1: And Cameron Diaz is like, they just make her look completely unrecognizable for the most part.
• 9:16
  Track 1: And they said it was a challenge to make her look that way and sort of almost
• 9:20
  Track 1: not use makeup and other things.
• 9:22
  Track 3: Yeah. Have you seen Cameron Diaz?
• 9:24
  Track 4: That was the thing. I think she also may be wearing brown contacts or something.
• 9:32
  Track 4: I think her eye color is different.
• 9:37
  Track 1: To make her seem sort of darker.
• 9:39
  Track 4: Yeah. But that was one thing is that especially around when this movie came
• 9:47
  Track 4: out, Cameron Diaz was this really big kind of sex symbol.
• 9:52
  Track 4: and um so i guess
• 9:55
  Track 4: they did have to do a lot of work to make her
• 9:58
  Track 4: look less appealing but i also thought it
• 10:01
  Track 4: it was kind of interesting for her to like i
• 10:04
  Track 4: i feel like that showed how she was great as an actress because like i don't
• 10:11
  Track 4: know at least like in the beginning part it's pretty believable that she's frumpy
• 10:15
  Track 4: and like unattractive like you could see that maybe with a makeover she'd look
• 10:20
  Track 4: amazing but like i didn't i i found it to be believable.
• 10:25
  Track 1: The year before this movie came out, she was in There's Something About Mary,
• 10:29
  Track 1: which is literally like the it girl, you know, and like the transformation is pretty stark.
• 10:35
  Track 2: She's definitely wearing brown contacts.
• 10:37
  Track 4: I called it.
• 10:39
  Track 1: Oh, yeah. Does she have green or blue eyes or something?
• 10:42
  Track 2: She's got blue eyes.
• 10:43
  Track 1: Okay, so that's, then you're correct, Alexa.
• 10:47
  Track 1: Yeah, and the, there's so many different weird things, like metaphors in this movie.
• 10:53
  Track 1: and i think just because we
• 10:57
  Track 1: learned that craig is a puppeteer
• 11:01
  Track 1: and that like it comes into play later in
• 11:04
  Track 1: the movie i was thinking about just the idea of
• 11:07
  Track 1: like puppeteering and wanting to control you know
• 11:10
  Track 1: characters or other people and he
• 11:13
  Track 1: uses his ability later to control john
• 11:16
  Track 1: malkovich so it feels
• 11:19
  Track 1: like that's some sort of overall he has a fantasy of being a famous puppeteer
• 11:25
  Track 1: too so there's there's all this fantasy aspect and trying to escape their miserable
• 11:31
  Track 1: lives you know there's so many things and.
• 11:36
  Track 4: I i feel like though he was saying at one point later on in the film i think it was but like,
• 11:44
  Track 4: He was basically saying like, oh, well, if you're when you're puppeteering,
• 11:49
  Track 4: like you're viewing things through another person's eyes.
• 11:51
  Track 4: And like there's different scenes where he's like, you know,
• 11:54
  Track 4: it's like I'm I'm living in their skin and then literally gets to do it with John Malkovich.
• 12:02
  Track 4: And his character, like Craig, the character just felt like me to such an incel,
• 12:07
  Track 4: even though he was married to frumpy Cameron Diaz.
• 12:11
  Track 4: but like he did not want to do anything he wanted to be this famous puppeteer
• 12:18
  Track 4: but would just hang out in his little basement closet studio and try to make
• 12:23
  Track 4: his little puppet shows and or put stuff on.
• 12:27
  Track 1: The street that was so.
• 12:28
  Track 4: Completely inappropriate and just like not eye-catching except to small children he.
• 12:35
  Track 1: Says it he said but he says at the beginning like when he's talking to to cameron
• 12:39
  Track 1: diaz or to lottie he says that like the idea of a consciousness is like a terrible
• 12:44
  Track 1: curse and feeling feelings is like the you know it's when.
• 12:49
  Track 2: He's talking to elijah.
• 12:51
  Track 1: Oh this is a monkey or so the yes.
• 12:53
  Track 2: It's when he's talking to the to elijah,
• 12:55
  Track 2: About the curse of consciousness and feeling because he's like, he's lucky.
• 13:01
  Track 1: Yeah.
• 13:02
  Track 2: He's like, he's like, he's lucky that he doesn't have that, which is also proven
• 13:07
  Track 2: not true, which is also like,
• 13:09
  Track 2: I think indicative of the fact that Craig basically doesn't like recognize other
• 13:17
  Track 2: people's self-possession or their,
• 13:21
  Track 2: their own individuality or like their, their being.
• 13:26
  Track 2: because well i mean he goes into don malkovich takes over his life i mean that's
• 13:30
  Track 2: kind of like you know the utter like you know you know violation of sanctity of self but also like,
• 13:37
  Track 2: we know we have it proven to us that the the chimp does have self-awareness
• 13:42
  Track 2: because we literally see a flashback of this chimp's childhood and his parents
• 13:47
  Track 2: being taken and bound up and he can't save them and it's like and then he turns
• 13:53
  Track 2: to the chip and he's like you don't have these things and It's like,
• 13:56
  Track 2: I feel like that was like really like him projecting that on everything.
• 14:00
  Track 2: And I also think that like.
• 14:02
  Track 2: The whole notion of him like yeah he
• 14:05
  Track 2: says oh being a puppeteer is
• 14:08
  Track 2: like about like living in someone else's skin but really
• 14:11
  Track 2: like he doesn't feel comfortable living in
• 14:14
  Track 2: his own skin and it's not until it's
• 14:18
  Track 2: not even like oh he can like live in
• 14:21
  Track 2: someone else's skin or or like as the puppet he only feels comfortable being
• 14:27
  Track 2: himself when he's projecting himself onto something else he does not feel comfortable
• 14:32
  Track 2: being who he is he does not have in any way shape or form any self possession of his own yeah.
• 14:39
  Track 4: And that's why i feel like again it almost goes back to like
• 14:42
  Track 4: incel culture because it's like you aren't
• 14:46
  Track 4: bringing anything to the table you have such a lack
• 14:49
  Track 4: of like confidence in yourself or
• 14:52
  Track 4: even just like it's it's just like he's a shell of a person and there's just
• 15:00
  Track 4: nothing there unless he's like projected onto someone else and it's I think
• 15:06
  Track 4: you really see that too where um,
• 15:11
  Track 4: In the one scene where it's the Maxine character and she comes over for dinner
• 15:18
  Track 4: and it's both Craig and Lottie basically staring at her like, oh my god.
• 15:27
  Track 4: And in that scene, what really struck me was that it just felt like two very
• 15:31
  Track 4: desperate people who clearly didn't want to be themselves, just, like,
• 15:36
  Track 4: staring at someone who was so fully themselves to the point where they could
• 15:40
  Track 4: be quite manipulative and don't think they were a great person either.
• 15:47
  Track 4: Yeah. But, yeah, it's, yeah, I really hated Craig.
• 15:54
  Track 3: I mean craig's a piece of shit even before like he learns he can steal john
• 15:58
  Track 3: malkovich's life like he's actively trying to cheat on his wife the only time
• 16:02
  Track 3: he brings up his wife is to get away from his boss so he can meet maxine at
• 16:05
  Track 3: the fucking bar yeah from the jump.
• 16:08
  Track 2: He's trying to cheat on his wife.
• 16:09
  Track 3: The wife that he yelled at like when she was like oh like you got to get a job
• 16:14
  Track 3: he's like you wanted me to get this job i just wanted to be a puppeteer he's
• 16:17
  Track 3: not even one of the good puppeteers in this fucking weird-ass universe that
• 16:21
  Track 3: celebrates puppeteers.
• 16:24
  Track 4: No, and his obsession with Maxine was immediate and had no bearing.
• 16:31
  Track 4: He was so in love with Maxine, but he, at least as far as the movie showed us,
• 16:38
  Track 4: it's not like he ever had a real conversation with her or anything.
• 16:43
  Track 4: It was just basically like an instant obsession that sprung out of,
• 16:49
  Track 4: I would assume, attraction and wanting to be with someone who was that confident.
• 16:55
  Track 1: I mean, that's where there's so many parts of this where different people have different fantasies.
• 17:01
  Track 1: Maxine fantasizes about being with Lottie while she's in John Malkovich.
• 17:06
  Track 1: Craig fantasizes about being with Lottie.
• 17:09
  Track 1: uh with maxine who does who rejects him
• 17:12
  Track 1: and then it's just like a circle or this weird
• 17:15
  Track 1: i mean i guess it's the kind of like a triangle but i
• 17:18
  Track 1: was also going to say is the maybe the funniest line in
• 17:21
  Track 1: the entire movie is when uh when maxine and craig go to that bar he like finally
• 17:27
  Track 1: shows up he comes in and she and he asked him like what she he does and he says
• 17:31
  Track 1: puppets here and she goes check please so good yeah that's an alzheimer that.
• 17:39
  Track 2: Felt like he was like i'm a close-up magician i'm a dj check please i'm good let's go.
• 17:46
  Track 1: Yeah and like they and they i mean not to say that they make or not to katherine
• 17:52
  Track 1: keener isn't attractive but they make her almost it's She's so such a stark
• 17:57
  Track 1: contrast to Lottie and Craig.
• 18:00
  Track 1: It's like this unattainable thing. And that's sort of part of incel culture
• 18:06
  Track 1: to sort of like getting this, the, we were, we just did an episode on American
• 18:10
  Track 1: pie and we talked about how that movie was an incel movie.
• 18:13
  Track 1: And so this it's, it's ironic that we're talking. So.
• 18:18
  Track 4: Yeah.
• 18:19
  Track 3: Yeah. I didn't think we'd have two incel movies.
• 18:21
  Track 2: Yeah. Well, you brought that. I was like, Oh.
• 18:23
  Track 4: But it is because it's just like there's
• 18:27
  Track 4: no there's nothing the whole thing about incels
• 18:30
  Track 4: is that they're so obsessed with how women are always rejecting them but they
• 18:33
  Track 4: never bring anything to the table to offer and i feel like craig is the like
• 18:38
  Track 4: deep epitome of that because he not only brings nothing to the table all he
• 18:43
  Track 4: can do is like imitate others or project onto others and things like that.
• 18:50
  Track 4: But then Maxine, like, I found, like, her interesting as well because...
• 18:57
  Track 4: She just is only, like, attracted to, like, power and control and manipulation,
• 19:03
  Track 4: and that's, like, her fantasy.
• 19:08
  Track 4: So, yeah, it's sort of like everybody's fantasizing about somebody else in the movie.
• 19:14
  Track 2: Lottie just wants—Lottie—I found the fact that, like, Lottie,
• 19:18
  Track 2: when she went into John Malkovich, and her immediate response was, I think I'm trans.
• 19:24
  Track 2: And it was like, it really felt like to me, like her immediate response was
• 19:31
  Track 2: because she felt the way a man in a patriarchal society,
• 19:39
  Track 2: a society that, that values men over women.
• 19:41
  Track 2: Like that's what it was. Like, it's just, she all of a sudden had some kind
• 19:46
  Track 2: of sensation of like power and control over her life. And prior to that,
• 19:50
  Track 2: like, she was doing everything on her own.
• 19:54
  Track 2: She has all this, like, all these responsibilities that her husband,
• 19:58
  Track 2: who's a schlub, does not care about, does not engage in, doesn't help her with.
• 20:04
  Track 2: And then she has this, like, sensation of, like, oh, wait, I can have power and control.
• 20:12
  Track 2: But, like, not like a Maxine way, just like, I can be a whole person, be myself.
• 20:18
  Track 1: Immediately after that is that uh maxine's immediate idea is to charge money
• 20:25
  Track 1: to go inside of john malkovich craig doesn't doesn't want to do that but then
• 20:29
  Track 1: he of course goes along with it because he wants maxine and just the idea of
• 20:33
  Track 1: commodifying like the human consciousness,
• 20:38
  Track 1: i was struck by i bet if you know some tech bro could figure out a way to do
• 20:44
  Track 1: this they would do it and they would commodify it.
• 20:46
  Track 4: Yeah i oh i mean you could even make the argument that like,
• 20:51
  Track 4: like uh like chatbots and
• 20:54
  Track 4: generative ai are commodifying the human you
• 20:57
  Track 4: know consciousness are they fully human obviously not
• 21:00
  Track 4: but like they look and talk
• 21:03
  Track 4: and sound like a human for the most part depending on
• 21:06
  Track 4: what you ask them and how sophisticated they are
• 21:09
  Track 4: and so like that's kind of already happening
• 21:13
  Track 4: in some ways and it's yeah but
• 21:16
  Track 4: definitely just her immediate like okay let's monetize
• 21:19
  Track 4: it and not only that but like was like
• 21:23
  Track 4: it wanting to monetize it in the first place but then on top
• 21:26
  Track 4: of that like i was thinking like you have like people going
• 21:29
  Track 4: in all night for like six hours or something like that's also just like someone
• 21:34
  Track 4: in there every 15 minutes uh i would be worried about overloading the system
• 21:40
  Track 4: but i guess if you wanted to monetize in the first place you wouldn't care about that anyways yeah.
• 21:46
  Track 3: I mean no maxine like just immediately was like
• 21:50
  Track 3: yeah no we can make money off of this like she even listened to
• 21:52
  Track 3: fucking craig like go on a whole like existential rant about
• 21:56
  Track 3: the whole thing and be like well here's a fucking window i'm out like so of
• 22:04
  Track 3: course she immediately was like yeah i can make money off of this that's what
• 22:07
  Track 3: we're gonna do and craig like he didn't think about trying to make money off
• 22:10
  Track 3: Because he was just like, how can I use this to get laid by Maxine?
• 22:14
  Track 3: Until she was like, hey, dude, you're going to help me make money off this.
• 22:17
  Track 3: I was like, okay, I'll do whatever the fuck you want.
• 22:19
  Track 2: Yeah.
• 22:20
  Track 3: And, um...
• 22:22
  Track 3: I'm going to call Gen 6 Neuralink is when they're going to like really commodify
• 22:27
  Track 3: human experiences, like going to strip somebody else's experience that you can
• 22:32
  Track 3: pay for. And you can be like, oh, what does heroin feel like?
• 22:34
  Track 2: Goddamn. Yeah. Terrifying to think about.
• 22:38
  Track 3: Oh, yeah. It's sad.
• 22:39
  Track 2: I did. That was the one thing that honestly, that is the only moment in the
• 22:44
  Track 2: entire movie where I didn't feel like Craig was a complete piece of shit.
• 22:48
  Track 2: When he was like, actually, we shouldn't commodify human experience.
• 22:53
  Track 2: Like, but it's the only moment and it just like.
• 22:57
  Track 1: But the only reason he doesn't want to commodify it is out of self-interest
• 23:02
  Track 1: because he wants to be able to use it himself. Right?
• 23:05
  Track 2: Yeah.
• 23:06
  Track 3: I mean, how else is he going to be interesting to Maxine? He's a fucking puppeteer.
• 23:15
  Track 3: poor poor one of the lesser known ones.
• 23:19
  Track 2: Which later on we get a whole montage about how like john malkovich breathed
• 23:24
  Track 2: life into puppeteering again but there was a guy previous to this that was putting
• 23:30
  Track 2: on a giant it was like on tv.
• 23:32
  Track 3: He was in the news for it he was in the fucking news for puppeteering people.
• 23:37
  Track 2: In the audience crying.
• 23:38
  Track 3: Like in this reality you're not even winning america's got talent with fucking
• 23:43
  Track 3: puppeteering but in this one they can be on fucking daytime or an evening fucking news,
• 23:51
  Track 3: and this lesser known guy usually
• 23:53
  Track 3: had to fucking leverage john malkovich's name to get fame am i the only.
• 23:59
  Track 4: One who who really thought the scene in the beginning like the puppeteering
• 24:03
  Track 4: scene that it opens with was actually quite moving and impressive i guess maybe i'm the only one Wait.
• 24:10
  Track 3: Because it's the other guys.
• 24:11
  Track 2: Wait, wait, wait. Do you mean the one that opened, like, John Cusack's film scene?
• 24:16
  Track 3: Like, the street performance or the, like, opening credits?
• 24:19
  Track 4: I mean, yeah, like, when the movie opens and it's...
• 24:22
  Track 2: No, I do. I did think it was.
• 24:26
  Track 4: Like, I just...
• 24:27
  Track 4: I thought that was like, I thought that was very, I mean, I don't know if there
• 24:32
  Track 4: was movie magic, but like the puppeteering itself was like really beautiful
• 24:37
  Track 4: and the movements felt very fluid and lifelike.
• 24:42
  Track 4: So I was impressed by the initial puppeteering scene.
• 24:46
  Track 2: Absolutely. I mean, I was, and I do agree that it was, it's very like,
• 24:51
  Track 2: I do think that it was like an emotional scene and it was well done. But I'm also an art nerd.
• 24:59
  Track 2: And so, like, you know, there's a difference between four art nerds talking
• 25:04
  Track 2: about this and then, you know, like thinking that, like, you know,
• 25:08
  Track 2: the mass public that the news would cover it.
• 25:13
  Track 2: The news doesn't cover opera nowadays.
• 25:16
  Track 2: Like, they're not going to cover, you know, puppets.
• 25:20
  Track 3: Maybe Muppets, not puppets.
• 25:22
  Track 2: Obviously, they're going to cover Muppets. Let's be real. Muppets are people.
• 25:26
  Track 1: We also need to talk again about Orson Bean's character, the Dr. Lester.
• 25:34
  Track 1: So they go to dinner at his house as well. And when Lottie's wandering around
• 25:40
  Track 1: the house, she goes into this room.
• 25:42
  Track 1: This is the stuff that I didn't remember when I watched it. And it's basically
• 25:46
  Track 1: a shrine to the birth and current age of John Malkovich. Which,
• 25:52
  Track 1: if I had seen that, I would have been like, dude, what's up with your room up there?
• 25:57
  Track 4: Well, I feel like she, because that's after she goes in John Malkovich, right?
• 26:03
  Track 1: Right. You're right. You're right.
• 26:04
  Track 4: So I feel like she doesn't want to say anything because she doesn't want to
• 26:08
  Track 4: disrupt her ability to go back into Malkovich.
• 26:11
  Track 4: But, I mean, she clearly takes note of it because then after Craig takes over
• 26:19
  Track 4: John Malkovich full time, she goes to him and tries to figure out what's going on.
• 26:25
  Track 1: Why didn't they hide the door more carefully at his office? And how does he
• 26:30
  Track 1: choose where the door is?
• 26:33
  Track 2: I don't think he does.
• 26:34
  Track 3: Yeah, I don't think there's any choice in where the door is.
• 26:37
  Track 3: It's like a... The best guess we have is it's based on lineage.
• 26:41
  Track 3: Like, it gets passed down through a family.
• 26:43
  Track 1: Okay.
• 26:43
  Track 2: And, like, it says, like, basically that, like...
• 26:49
  Track 2: He found a portal.
• 26:52
  Track 3: Yeah, he found a portal, and he's able to permanently transfer every 44 years,
• 26:59
  Track 3: or on their 44th birthday at midnight, and he could possibly live infinitely.
• 27:05
  Track 4: He's the original guy who created the building that we learned about in the orientation video.
• 27:12
  Track 4: So like he like the seven and a half, seven and a half floor could even be that
• 27:18
  Track 4: short to try to keep the portal more secret or something.
• 27:22
  Track 4: I know there are companies there, but I could see it not being because his wife
• 27:28
  Track 4: was a little person, but because he found a portal somehow and then was just building around it.
• 27:36
  Track 1: Yeah.
• 27:37
  Track 3: It's like in the air. That's a portal that was like in the air.
• 27:40
  Track 2: Yeah.
• 27:41
  Track 4: Before there was a building there.
• 27:43
  Track 2: Yeah how did that the.
• 27:45
  Track 4: Portal of the building.
• 27:46
  Track 2: Yeah this like this world has so many elements to it that are like never answered
• 27:51
  Track 2: and it's like what the fuck how,
• 27:54
  Track 2: where why John Malkovich is friends with Charlie Sheen is a question that I
• 27:58
  Track 2: have which I do not think is a great question,
• 28:05
  Track 2: that's up there with getting to the turnpike in 15 minutes from manhattan it's
• 28:10
  Track 2: just unbelievable i don't they don't seem like the same guy they don't seem
• 28:14
  Track 2: like they'd be in the same social circles.
• 28:16
  Track 4: But that's also kind of why i loved it because like i
• 28:19
  Track 4: feel like they must have put that in there for laughs like assuming
• 28:22
  Track 4: that john malkovich would never be friends with
• 28:25
  Track 4: charlie sheen but not only is he
• 28:28
  Track 4: friends with him you know like kind of as they're figuring out this portal stuff
• 28:34
  Track 4: but then also the the um the bean guy goes and like becomes friends with him
• 28:41
  Track 4: when once he's john malkovich and they're friends in like their 60s or whatever you.
• 28:47
  Track 2: Got to keep up the facade.
• 28:48
  Track 4: But he invites him to to enter the next host like he he maybe to become friends
• 28:56
  Track 4: with them but that guy was a horn dog so that's.
• 28:58
  Track 3: Like part of that's like part of the whole museum.
• 29:01
  Track 2: Yeah yeah you know what yeah actually yeah you're right dr lester would be friends
• 29:06
  Track 2: with charlie sheen that makes more sense that.
• 29:09
  Track 4: That makes.
• 29:10
  Track 2: Perfect sense john malkovich i don't get but dr lester being friends with charlie sheen totally.
• 29:20
  Track 1: The note that i found apparently it was supposed to be kevin bacon but he dropped
• 29:25
  Track 1: out and then And they chose Charlie Sheen.
• 29:29
  Track 1: And then the weird thing was, John Malkovich, about him being in the movie,
• 29:34
  Track 1: said that he would trust him if he was in trouble. I don't know if that's a joke.
• 29:40
  Track 1: I didn't find the source of that thing.
• 29:43
  Track 3: And Charlie Sheen's been through some shit. If I needed some help, I could go out to him.
• 29:48
  Track 2: Yeah, I gotta be honest. If I needed to bury a body and Charlie Sheen was an
• 29:52
  Track 2: option, I'd go to Charlie Sheen.
• 29:55
  Track 4: Yeah, you could just give him some cocaine and he'd be down.
• 30:00
  Track 1: Yeah. That is probably true.
• 30:05
  Track 1: Man, why do they get really dirty when they're in the portal?
• 30:10
  Track 1: So gross. It looks like an ear canal or something.
• 30:12
  Track 3: That's the grossest part. Yeah, it felt like an ear canal too,
• 30:15
  Track 3: but it's like dirt at the front.
• 30:17
  Track 1: Yeah, good point.
• 30:18
  Track 2: It's like mud.
• 30:19
  Track 3: And then it turns like muddy ear canally, and then you're inside of him.
• 30:24
  Track 1: Yeah. Bye-bye.
• 30:26
  Track 4: I mean, it's a portal. They're not always going to be clean.
• 30:30
  Track 1: Yeah, that's true. It's been around a long time. You know, who's got time to clean a portal?
• 30:35
  Track 4: Well, plus inside your brain's gooey.
• 30:37
  Track 1: Yeah. All right. So here's another question that I asked Bill before.
• 30:42
  Track 1: When the Dr. Lester has all these friends and he invites them to also go in,
• 30:49
  Track 1: do they talk to each other inside of his head?
• 30:51
  Track 4: They must, because he was saying that he wanted to bring them in because it got lonely.
• 30:58
  Track 4: And so it seemed like, but then my question was less about like,
• 31:04
  Track 4: it seemed like they could talk to each other.
• 31:05
  Track 4: But more like, is Dr. Lester the guy who's in control?
• 31:11
  Track 4: Or are they all like jockeying for control?
• 31:16
  Track 4: Like, who's driving John Malkovich?
• 31:20
  Track 3: I i was pretending it was like split where it's like all the different personalities
• 31:25
  Track 3: in one and whoever gets the spotlight gets the takeover that's how i pretended it was the.
• 31:31
  Track 2: Question at that point
• 31:34
  Track 2: becomes like if you don't have like so
• 31:37
  Track 2: like the the reason to do this is to
• 31:40
  Track 2: achieve essentially immortality like
• 31:44
  Track 2: mental immortality you
• 31:47
  Track 2: know but then the question becomes like if you are all in there you're not if
• 31:54
  Track 2: if you're not in control or you're not like conscious of it then you haven't
• 31:59
  Track 2: achieved immortality and if like if you all like become like one identity like,
• 32:06
  Track 2: losing your individuality and like losing your
• 32:09
  Track 2: perception of self like you again you have died you are
• 32:12
  Track 2: not you've not achieved your mortality and it's just that is a i feel like that
• 32:17
  Track 2: that is actually a major flaw in the movie because it doesn't make sense and
• 32:25
  Track 2: it leaves questions opened that need to be answered to explain the motivations of characters.
• 32:31
  Track 4: But i don't and.
• 32:33
  Track 2: Like mechanics of it.
• 32:34
  Track 4: I don't know if that's necessarily the case though because to me
• 32:37
  Track 4: like what i when with dr
• 32:40
  Track 4: lester i got real big like boomer
• 32:44
  Track 4: energy even though i'm not sure like what he technically would be in the film
• 32:48
  Track 4: or and he's also like immortal but to me it just yeah but to me it really made
• 32:56
  Track 4: me think of like especially before you kind of realize what his situation is he's like like, I'm 105.
• 33:03
  Track 4: And he's like, and I, like, piss weird. And I like, you know,
• 33:10
  Track 4: can't do all these things.
• 33:11
  Track 4: But I'm alive. And I'm also running this company.
• 33:15
  Track 4: And it's like, like, you won't retire, you won't like, kind of like,
• 33:21
  Track 4: let others take control.
• 33:22
  Track 4: And then in this instance, he literally won't die. And then is not only not
• 33:28
  Track 4: dying, but then taking his friends with him.
• 33:31
  Track 4: So it was just like, I think regardless of what they thought would happen when
• 33:36
  Track 4: all of them went into John Malkovich, they clearly were all doing the same thing,
• 33:41
  Track 4: which their motivation is, I don't want to die.
• 33:44
  Track 4: I'm going to try to live forever, even whether it works or not.
• 33:49
  Track 1: See, I don't think that Dr. Lester would let them in if he didn't somehow know
• 33:56
  Track 1: he would remain in control, because clearly he needs...
• 33:59
  Track 1: control i get that sense you know of all this stuff so i don't it's weird i
• 34:07
  Track 1: mean maybe he just you know he has a.
• 34:08
  Track 4: Book on it too.
• 34:09
  Track 3: It can be just like true he had the
• 34:12
  Track 3: book on it but he also like was saying that he had to
• 34:15
  Track 3: wait till the 44th birthday and had to get craig
• 34:18
  Track 3: out of there because craig's become too powerful now that
• 34:21
  Track 3: he would just get if he went in uh craig would just banish him to the subconscious
• 34:26
  Track 3: which is probably what mr dr lesser did with all the people that went with him
• 34:31
  Track 3: that's fucked up was he just locked them all yeah that's it's fucked up it's
• 34:36
  Track 3: super fucked up that's why do you think i was pretending it was the other way because.
• 34:40
  Track 2: You didn't want to.
• 34:41
  Track 3: Contend with the.
• 34:41
  Track 2: Fucked up in this of it.
• 34:42
  Track 3: Yeah like this movie's already like
• 34:45
  Track 3: in the realm of do not overthink it because this shit doesn't make sense puppeteering's
• 34:50
  Track 3: famous portals fucking nonsense in the air no rules to it like yeah no that's
• 34:56
  Track 3: probably the reality of it is mr lester dr lester was like yeah you guys can
• 35:00
  Track 3: all come with me i'm tired of being alone but banished to the subconscious yeah.
• 35:04
  Track 4: I don't know i feel like he to me it seemed
• 35:07
  Track 4: like he had a genuine desire to
• 35:10
  Track 4: enjoy this like eternal life experience
• 35:14
  Track 4: with others because that's the other side
• 35:17
  Track 4: too is that if you live forever but
• 35:21
  Track 4: your loved ones don't then it's
• 35:24
  Track 4: like a vampire curse like yeah you could live forever but then everyone you
• 35:29
  Track 4: love just dies again and again and again you know generation after generation
• 35:35
  Track 4: and so I felt like his desire for to have companionship seemed real but who knows like,
• 35:44
  Track 4: what what happened but i don't know i was willing to suspend my disbelief for
• 35:49
  Track 4: to try to like enjoy the movie and then craig just sucks so much.
• 35:57
  Track 3: Yeah it's dr lesser seemed real until like he straight up like kidnapped maxine
• 36:02
  Track 3: and threatened a killer so that he could get access to the body which and the
• 36:06
  Track 3: only reason he didn't follow through was because he needs that other body so
• 36:10
  Track 3: he can do it again in another 44 years because.
• 36:13
  Track 2: He's pregnant But he did say he's like, he called our bluff.
• 36:16
  Track 2: Like, I don't think he ever intended to hurt her.
• 36:20
  Track 3: Oh, yeah, because he needs another baby so he can actually achieve immortality.
• 36:23
  Track 2: That's a good one.
• 36:24
  Track 3: That's the only reason he didn't follow through with it.
• 36:26
  Track 4: But did he know at the time? That's the question, too, is like,
• 36:30
  Track 4: how do they know who the host is?
• 36:31
  Track 4: Because, like, theoretically, the baby would have been the next host because
• 36:36
  Track 4: it was the child of John Malkovich. But I don't know if like Dr. Lester, original Dr.
• 36:43
  Track 4: Lester was related to John Malkovich at all.
• 36:47
  Track 4: So like, how do they, how do they know who the hosts are?
• 36:51
  Track 3: See that part you can't overthink.
• 36:52
  Track 2: There's no answer.
• 36:54
  Track 4: Yeah.
• 36:55
  Track 3: You're not allowed to overthink this movie because there's no answers.
• 36:58
  Track 3: No real answers anyways.
• 37:00
  Track 2: Yeah.
• 37:00
  Track 1: That whole part of the movie I had no memory of either is when,
• 37:04
  Track 1: so Craig takes over John Malkovich for years and he's married to Maxine. and he goes on this.
• 37:10
  Track 4: It's eight months, right?
• 37:11
  Track 3: No, it's like eight months. It's like eight months.
• 37:13
  Track 2: Seven years eight months yeah yeah i'm sorry.
• 37:16
  Track 1: Oh you're right the jump the time jumps later sorry you're right sorry but.
• 37:20
  Track 4: It's kind of.
• 37:20
  Track 1: Crazy because he.
• 37:21
  Track 4: Like what he gets done in eight months is like.
• 37:24
  Track 1: Completely like.
• 37:27
  Track 4: Dumps acting but then also starts from the bottom of puppeteering and then makes
• 37:32
  Track 4: it so he's this like internationally renowned puppeteer and i was like that
• 37:38
  Track 4: seems way too fast even today with like the internet and social media like i
• 37:42
  Track 4: don't it doesn't seem right yeah.
• 37:45
  Track 1: The funniest another really funny scene is
• 37:48
  Track 1: when maxine and john malkovich inhabited by craig go to craig's to john malkovich's
• 37:54
  Track 1: agent and they're like having this certain conversation like we i want to become
• 37:56
  Track 1: a puppeteer and he doesn't talk him out of it say anything he's just like okay
• 38:00
  Track 1: i'll make a few calls and just like yeah puppeteering is cool it's cool so you can do it What.
• 38:07
  Track 3: Universe is this?
• 38:08
  Track 2: Which again, establish the precedence that that's a valid career track.
• 38:13
  Track 2: That like your agent, that an agent would be like, okay, yeah,
• 38:17
  Track 2: I'll call the right, I'll call the puppeteer people.
• 38:19
  Track 4: But at the same time, I feel like looking at it from a leftist perspective,
• 38:25
  Track 4: it kind of, it felt almost like an example of like when you're,
• 38:29
  Track 4: when you have power and means and like a reputation.
• 38:35
  Track 4: you can you have these yes people who like just make anything you want happen,
• 38:42
  Track 4: yeah um which that's kind of how i took it that's true yeah like it's like oh
• 38:46
  Track 4: okay i'm your agent you want to do this okay we'll make it happen i don't know
• 38:50
  Track 4: we'll figure it out because like i'm a yes man yeah.
• 38:53
  Track 1: Totally that's and then and then you're like the montage of him becoming like
• 38:58
  Track 1: the famous puppeteer he's like doing a class and he starts yelling at this other guy because he's.
• 39:03
  Track 4: Doing it wrong.
• 39:03
  Track 1: Oh, that part's great. And it's just...
• 39:06
  Track 3: He grows his hair out all disheveled again.
• 39:08
  Track 2: Yes.
• 39:09
  Track 4: I know. I was like, dear Lord, what do you like about this hairstyle?
• 39:13
  Track 2: Yeah.
• 39:13
  Track 3: So fucking funny.
• 39:15
  Track 2: Listen, okay. Listen, I'm going to,
• 39:17
  Track 2: as I'm just, this is a public service announcement for listeners. Okay.
• 39:23
  Track 2: If you are a man and you are going bald, just shave your fucking head. Okay.
• 39:29
  Track 2: I say this as a man who was going bald and I shaved my head.
• 39:33
  Track 2: It looks better, as evidenced by John Malkovich, who grows this horrible,
• 39:40
  Track 2: ratty haircut so he can look like John Cusack in the beginning of this movie,
• 39:45
  Track 2: and it looks terrible. Just go bald.
• 39:49
  Track 2: Go bald.
• 39:50
  Track 4: There are worse things than being bald. And one of them is being bald,
• 39:54
  Track 4: but using your remaining hair and growing it out and putting it in.
• 39:58
  Track 2: Yeah.
• 39:59
  Track 1: And the thing that also is, is when he, when he's John Malkovich this whole
• 40:04
  Track 1: time and he gets sort of the person he had fantasized about having and marries
• 40:09
  Track 1: Maxine, neither of them seem at all happy.
• 40:13
  Track 1: I mean, she seems miserable and because she still is in love with,
• 40:18
  Track 1: you know, with Lottie and it's.
• 40:22
  Track 4: Well, it's just again, it goes back to the lack of like them having like Maxine
• 40:27
  Track 4: and Craig not having any real connection because he like he just fantasizes.
• 40:34
  Track 4: I was thinking, you know, she's kind of like a manic pixie dream girl because
• 40:38
  Track 4: it's like, oh, you're sexy and hot and exciting and and confident and in control and all this stuff.
• 40:45
  Track 4: But then, like, there's no actual connection.
• 40:48
  Track 4: Again, I don't think they had a real conversation throughout the entire movie.
• 40:52
  Track 4: And so it's like, he just gets back into his comfort of his weird,
• 40:58
  Track 4: gross, long hair and like just being gross Craig, which she's really not happy with.
• 41:07
  Track 2: I, he seemed perfectly happy. Like that's really, he, he seemed perfectly happy.
• 41:14
  Track 2: The thing is that like, all he actually wanted was to be a puppeteer.
• 41:20
  Track 2: That's it. That's what he wanted. He wanted to be a puppeteer and he wanted
• 41:24
  Track 2: to be a famous puppeteer.
• 41:27
  Track 2: And like, I feel like Maxine is actually has like actual character growth because
• 41:34
  Track 2: she realizes, Oh wait, no,
• 41:37
  Track 2: actually I do want a real connection with a real person, like relationship,
• 41:42
  Track 2: like an actual relationship with a person matters.
• 41:45
  Track 2: That's actually important. Yeah.
• 41:49
  Track 2: But he, you know, all she was ever to him was a fantasy.
• 41:53
  Track 2: That's all she ever was to him. And in the end, all that really mattered to
• 41:57
  Track 2: him was being a puppeteer.
• 42:00
  Track 4: Yeah. And even when she was, you know, she's like in love with Lottie,
• 42:06
  Track 4: but then he has a way to control Malkovich.
• 42:09
  Track 4: And then so she kind of goes with him because, ooh, like it's a sexy new power,
• 42:15
  Track 4: like power play of not only is he in there, but he's controlling, too.
• 42:21
  Track 4: And that like is like more interesting than Lottie. And then she realizes her
• 42:25
  Track 4: mistake when she wants to go back.
• 42:27
  Track 4: So many like just fantasy and escapism themes.
• 42:33
  Track 1: Yeah. Like those, does they come back over and over the whole time?
• 42:39
  Track 1: yeah he does actually seem happy you're right
• 42:42
  Track 1: and the like the the culmination of sort
• 42:45
  Track 1: of the the ending of the movie which is i
• 42:48
  Track 1: again also didn't remember is that they you
• 42:51
  Track 1: said before is that the doctor uh lester
• 42:54
  Track 1: threatens to you know to hurt
• 42:57
  Track 1: maxine if he doesn't come out and then he you know he does come out and then
• 43:02
  Track 1: they all enter enter him and now maxine is with lottie together like they're
• 43:07
  Track 1: in the they're in the street by the by and they just drive away they think like
• 43:12
  Track 1: give him the finger and he'd maybe like on the out of the car or something.
• 43:16
  Track 2: She he tries to get in the cab and maxine is like she was like fuck him like
• 43:22
  Track 2: we don't know him or something.
• 43:23
  Track 1: Like that okay which.
• 43:25
  Track 4: That was kind of amazing yeah.
• 43:27
  Track 1: And then he goes into jump the down the the portal but after midnight and so now he is,
• 43:36
  Track 1: stuck in the subconscious forever. And now he's as the baby that's born.
• 43:42
  Track 1: I think that's when it's eight years later.
• 43:44
  Track 1: And so he sees everything through the child, but he can't control anything.
• 43:49
  Track 1: And he's just, yeah, he's like the opposite. Yeah. Sorry.
• 43:53
  Track 4: No, no, no. I mean, once I watched the ending, I remembered it,
• 43:59
  Track 4: but I didn't remember like going in, but that ending
• 44:02
  Track 4: just like horrifies me where he's stuck in the child because again going back
• 44:11
  Track 4: to this kind of like incel view of craig it's like i can't have you and so then
• 44:19
  Track 4: i'm literally going to like,
• 44:22
  Track 4: be a leech and be still somehow part of your life and corrupt like your child,
• 44:30
  Track 4: um it was just so insane like i'm still like blah like uh like you're you just
• 44:36
  Track 4: continue to ruin things i.
• 44:39
  Track 3: Mean this is the guy who locked his wife in a cage.
• 44:42
  Track 4: With a monkey and that's like the thing it's kind of like an abuser's type thing
• 44:47
  Track 4: where it's like not only like even if you leave even if you get away i'm still
• 44:52
  Track 4: haunting you in some way or another i'm still figuring out a way to make your
• 44:55
  Track 4: life miserable because i'm not with you and you're not my play thing while.
• 45:00
  Track 2: Allegorically that all does fit
• 45:03
  Track 2: in the context of the film he doesn't know that he doesn't know that he's going
• 45:10
  Track 2: to end up in the kid he does not have the information about midnight or 44 years
• 45:14
  Track 2: old or any of that he doesn't have any of that information he assumes he's going
• 45:18
  Track 2: to end up back in john Malkovich.
• 45:20
  Track 4: True.
• 45:21
  Track 1: But this is already passed on and it's- Yeah.
• 45:24
  Track 2: He doesn't know any of that. He's just, he tried to go back into Malkovich.
• 45:31
  Track 4: But he's still like, I mean, from the seven or eight year jump or whatever,
• 45:35
  Track 4: like he he's still like Maxine, Maxine, still pining for her.
• 45:42
  Track 4: And the part that I guess maybe scared me the most was just the idea of like
• 45:46
  Track 4: him trying to figure out some way to control the kid.
• 45:50
  Track 4: And still, like, even if it's not intentional for him to have ended up with
• 45:55
  Track 4: a kid, he's still using that position to try.
• 45:58
  Track 4: Like, I would imagine that he would still be trying to, like,
• 46:01
  Track 4: take control of her or somehow otherwise, like, interact and have agency over the situation.
• 46:07
  Track 1: Isn't his, the last line he says is to look, like, look away,
• 46:11
  Track 1: you know, look away from her. You know, it's killing him to watch them together.
• 46:15
  Track 4: Yeah.
• 46:16
  Track 1: And it's just, it's, like, haunting. It's really just, it's a very disturbing ending.
• 46:22
  Track 4: Yeah.
• 46:22
  Track 2: I choose to believe that he is in the subconscious and will never,
• 46:27
  Track 2: ever figure out how to control the kid, and that this is just his hell.
• 46:32
  Track 2: This is hell. He's going to live out his days as a consciousness, totally powerless,
• 46:41
  Track 2: witnessing the world, incapable of interacting with it,
• 46:44
  Track 2: watching other watching the the
• 46:48
  Track 2: woman he spurned who he married and betrayed and the woman who he loved and
• 46:56
  Track 2: spurned him live their life out happy together and he gets to watch that in
• 47:01
  Track 2: hell that's what i that's how i that's how i take it see.
• 47:05
  Track 3: Bill gets it bill gets it you pick a reality and that's.
• 47:08
  Track 2: The one you accept because it's happier than the alternatives when it comes
• 47:12
  Track 2: to this movie Listen, we, according to the rules of the universe,
• 47:17
  Track 2: as we are presented today,
• 47:19
  Track 2: That is the logical explanation.
• 47:22
  Track 2: According to Dr. Lester, who is the expert? We have to assume Dr.
• 47:26
  Track 2: Lester is someone that wrote that book. Who found Dr. Lester?
• 47:29
  Track 4: I feel like he found the book.
• 47:32
  Track 1: Yeah, that's what I thought.
• 47:34
  Track 4: Too. I feel like this is some weird ancient practice beyond him.
• 47:38
  Track 2: So wait, you think there's other portals into other heads?
• 47:40
  Track 4: I don't know if there's others. And I don't know why that particular portal
• 47:45
  Track 4: is where it is. but it if someone i mean that book was thick like i it seemed like he's.
• 47:53
  Track 2: Been around a while.
• 47:54
  Track 4: Yeah i guess so i don't know it felt like there was a society or something behind
• 47:58
  Track 4: it or some ancient knowledge being shared wait.
• 48:01
  Track 1: Here's a question if the child grows up and has a child of her own will craig
• 48:08
  Track 1: go into that child and then have to live this literal eternity assuming each
• 48:14
  Track 1: one of No, it dies with that person.
• 48:17
  Track 4: Yeah, because otherwise he doesn't have a portal to transfer into the other child.
• 48:22
  Track 1: Okay.
• 48:22
  Track 2: Exactly.
• 48:23
  Track 3: Yeah, this is heavily portal-reliant.
• 48:28
  Track 2: This is a portal-reliant technology, and by technology, I mean practice.
• 48:34
  Track 3: I fucking know how it works.
• 48:36
  Track 4: You can't get anywhere unless you go through the wet, dirty portal.
• 48:40
  Track 2: Yeah, yeah, unless you crawl through the slimy portal.
• 48:43
  Track 1: So this is i just figured out if you live in new jersey and you have to or if
• 48:46
  Track 1: you live in new york and you live or you work in new york and you live in new
• 48:50
  Track 1: jersey this is a quick quick easy way to get home you just honestly.
• 48:54
  Track 4: That's what they should have folded as like i want to get to the turnpike in.
• 48:58
  Track 1: 15 minutes pop through this portal you just have.
• 49:01
  Track 4: To be john.
• 49:02
  Track 1: Malkovich why didn't they set up why didn't they leave a car there i.
• 49:07
  Track 4: Didn't understand that either.
• 49:11
  Track 3: They made Craig drive every single time for every single customer.
• 49:16
  Track 4: And then he got back in 15 minutes.
• 49:19
  Track 2: This is an incredible... I love this alternate story where instead of...
• 49:24
  Track 2: Being John Alkowicz is totally ancillary.
• 49:27
  Track 2: It is not even the main attraction. It's just, listen, we've perfected public transit.
• 49:36
  Track 2: The true leftist dream. We've perfected public transit.
• 49:40
  Track 2: You crawl through this fucking hole and you get to skip all that shit.
• 49:45
  Track 2: You get 15 minutes. Boop. Right there.
• 49:47
  Track 2: What I want to know is why didn't they put some fucking mattresses down?
• 49:51
  Track 2: At least these people are getting launched from like 10 feet up in the air.
• 49:56
  Track 2: It was hitting the ground. Put some padding down.
• 50:01
  Track 2: Someone's going to get hurt.
• 50:02
  Track 4: I feel like there could have been a lot of improvements. Like why not have like
• 50:05
  Track 4: a van waiting and just pick all the people up and then drive them back.
• 50:09
  Track 4: Maybe some mattress. this. Maybe some towels.
• 50:12
  Track 1: Put some snacks.
• 50:14
  Track 4: Made this a luxury experience.
• 50:18
  Track 2: You could monetize that. Those are package buy-ons.
• 50:23
  Track 4: You want a towel? Here's 10 bucks. Or give me 10 bucks.
• 50:28
  Track 4: I mean, that's the thing, though. That's the portal from the capitalist perspective,
• 50:33
  Track 4: where it starts off that you're just selling access.
• 50:36
  Track 4: And then it's like slowly you add on more and more and more amenities to all
• 50:42
  Track 4: of a sudden where you're like, you know, I used to be able to go in the portal
• 50:45
  Track 4: for 200 bucks. Now it costs, you know, $400, and they don't even give you a ride home anymore.
• 50:54
  Track 1: Right.
• 50:54
  Track 3: Yeah, that's only part of the platinum package now, and I'm not paying for that.
• 50:59
  Track 1: You have to become a member.
• 51:01
  Track 4: Yeah.
• 51:01
  Track 2: Yeah.
• 51:02
  Track 1: It's like Costco. You're like, oh, I can... See, I think you were saying before
• 51:09
  Track 1: that there might be other... I think that the portal stays there for the next person. I think it does.
• 51:14
  Track 4: Too.
• 51:15
  Track 1: That's why he built the building. It, that's why the building he owned because
• 51:18
  Track 1: it can, he, for eternity, he also has to live in New York.
• 51:21
  Track 2: That's fucked up.
• 51:23
  Track 3: Yeah, that's its own kind of hell.
• 51:26
  Track 4: I mean, at the very least, he needs to keep that building. Like, I don't know if he has.
• 51:31
  Track 4: Once he's transferred into the next host, I mean, he just needs to keep it safe.
• 51:35
  Track 4: And I don't think he needs to physically be entering and exiting.
• 51:39
  Track 1: I mean, that's the only reason he keeps that ridiculous business, right?
• 51:42
  Track 1: I mean, it's just to make sure he's monetized this floor to protect his portal. That's it.
• 51:51
  Track 2: Yeah.
• 51:51
  Track 1: And he's into the filing. eventually that could just be a data center yeah.
• 51:55
  Track 4: They don't need to to.
• 51:59
  Track 1: Stand up right on.
• 52:00
  Track 4: Like a fully.
• 52:02
  Track 1: Fully hided floor god you you think you'd be so it would destroy your body to
• 52:09
  Track 1: work god yes jeez it like hurt me to watch that that'd.
• 52:13
  Track 3: Be so hard on the body.
• 52:14
  Track 4: I was thinking about like the actors and like if you were doing extended takes
• 52:20
  Track 4: and like hours like hunched over i don't know what the filming process is like but i was like oh like.
• 52:27
  Track 1: I wonder if the if it was like i'm sure it was on a sound stage but maybe the
• 52:31
  Track 1: ceiling can just lift up so that you know after they film the part they just
• 52:35
  Track 1: lift up and they can stand up that's would be my hope because they just walk
• 52:39
  Track 1: around hunched somehow i doubt it yeah no,
• 52:43
  Track 1: I mean, the movie cost $13 million. I mean, there isn't a lot of money.
• 52:46
  Track 1: They had to pay for the portal and the John Malkovich, and that's about it.
• 52:51
  Track 4: Yeah, but a million of that was into, like, lifting the floor,
• 52:54
  Track 4: ceiling, like, all the hydraulics for that. So, actors would be comfortable.
• 52:59
  Track 2: Yeah, but, like, a solid, you know, five was hiring the puppeteer to do all the puppet work.
• 53:04
  Track 1: The puppet stuff was pretty impressive. You know, I assume that it was all real.
• 53:09
  Track 2: It was all real. It was done by a puppeteer.
• 53:13
  Track 2: His name is Philip Huber, and it says, Jones, he's a full-time puppeteer,
• 53:20
  Track 2: and he controls his puppets only using strings and swinging the puppets on high wires, no rods.
• 53:26
  Track 1: That's impressive.
• 53:28
  Track 3: You know, I'm not a puppeteer. I don't think it's that impressive.
• 53:33
  Track 1: You live in the wrong timeline, Ward.
• 53:37
  Track 1: You don't live in the puppet timeline where this is like the greatest art form.
• 53:41
  Track 3: Yeah, you just got to be really good or be famous already to make it.
• 53:45
  Track 2: He's in the World Encyclopedia of Puppetry Arts.
• 53:48
  Track 4: Wow.
• 53:50
  Track 1: Another running joke that I thought was funny is when everyone recognizes John
• 53:54
  Track 1: Malkovich for some movie he's not in.
• 53:57
  Track 4: That was great. Like the Jewel Heist movie.
• 54:00
  Track 3: That was a good little bit.
• 54:01
  Track 1: He's like, I wasn't in that. And then everyone also says the same thing.
• 54:05
  Track 1: And it's just, yeah. There's lots of good gags and little, like,
• 54:09
  Track 1: the attention to all the details of all of the things and the jokes and everything is,
• 54:14
  Track 1: you know, for a movie that's extremely dark and has the most insufferable person
• 54:19
  Track 1: imaginable as one of the main characters, they made it funny enough where you can get through it.
• 54:25
  Track 4: Yeah, like...
• 54:26
  Track 4: I feel like it was, like, a good movie that I thought had some interesting themes,
• 54:33
  Track 4: but I just, like, kind of hated all the characters.
• 54:38
  Track 4: Lottie, it didn't bother me as much because whereas, like,
• 54:44
  Track 4: Craig felt like an incel who could never, like, have any sense of his own personality
• 54:51
  Track 4: because of many reasons and had nothing to offer.
• 54:55
  Track 4: and like Maxine was like self-serving but
• 54:59
  Track 4: Lottie like she was still kind of
• 55:02
  Track 4: messed up but it seemed like her messed upness was
• 55:05
  Track 4: coming more from a place of like actual like
• 55:09
  Track 4: kind of lack of power in her own life
• 55:11
  Track 4: like you know she wanted to have a baby um with
• 55:15
  Track 4: Craig and he's you know off trying to puppeteer and
• 55:18
  Track 4: then you know trying to cheat on her and all this stuff later
• 55:21
  Track 4: on but it did seem like her any of her bad actions were coming more from a place
• 55:27
  Track 4: of like sadness like earnest sadness and pain versus like self uh inflicted
• 55:35
  Track 4: pain or or just lack of caring yeah.
• 55:39
  Track 2: Lottie's like if we're like you know look at this like from like a you know
• 55:44
  Track 2: like a theater you know like the tragic flaw you know from a theatrical like
• 55:48
  Track 2: point of view like a classic like you know like to me like lottie's,
• 55:53
  Track 2: Lottie is a victim of her own life.
• 55:58
  Track 2: empathy and her own sensitivity
• 56:02
  Track 2: which is exemplified by all of
• 56:05
  Track 2: the animals and her like self-sacrificing and
• 56:09
  Track 2: like all the sacrifices she constantly makes for those animals you know like
• 56:15
  Track 2: throughout the entire movie it's all about like she's trying to help these animals
• 56:21
  Track 2: do these you know like take care of them you know the iguana is wounded you
• 56:26
  Track 2: know elijah has childhood trauma,
• 56:29
  Track 2: he's going through psychotherapy yeah he's going through psychotherapy we're
• 56:33
  Track 2: going to ignore the fact that chimps should not be in basement apartments in
• 56:36
  Track 2: new york city uh that's you know,
• 56:39
  Track 2: besides the point uh but she still deeply cares about all these animals and
• 56:44
  Track 2: you know like and and the fact that she wants a kid is part of that like you
• 56:48
  Track 2: know she wants to foster life and like care for things yeah no.
• 56:53
  Track 4: Exactly it felt much more like she just over gave and had nothing left for herself.
• 57:00
  Track 2: I mean that's why her husband does fucking nothing and she lets him do it.
• 57:06
  Track 4: I feel like there's a certain amount in those types of dynamics too where she
• 57:10
  Track 4: is doing everything because she's given up on trying to get him to do anything
• 57:15
  Track 4: and so which plays out in a lot of marriages,
• 57:20
  Track 4: but like, she's just kind of like, okay, well,
• 57:23
  Track 4: you know, and then even the one thing that she wants from him,
• 57:26
  Track 4: which is a kid, which God knows he's not going to do anything for,
• 57:29
  Track 4: but like, he can't, you know, give that to her.
• 57:33
  Track 4: So she's just kind of like, okay, well, then I'll keep doing,
• 57:35
  Track 4: I keep like taking care of my animals and finding like other ways to find,
• 57:40
  Track 4: fulfillment while like, you know, her, her husband and her theoretical partner
• 57:45
  Track 4: is just floundering and completely obsessed with his own fantasies.
• 57:51
  Track 1: Speaking of fulfillment, one of the things I was thinking about,
• 57:54
  Track 1: and there's also a joke in it too, when they opened the business to go down...
• 58:00
  Track 1: the portal there are a massive
• 58:03
  Track 1: line of people right and well
• 58:07
  Track 1: i think he asked i think they one person asked like um you
• 58:11
  Track 1: know who who who the person is and they say john malkovich
• 58:14
  Track 1: and he goes that was my second choice but
• 58:17
  Track 1: it's wonderful which is a great joke i don't
• 58:20
  Track 1: just to that he actually john malkovich was
• 58:23
  Track 1: a second choice but all these people under like
• 58:26
  Track 1: this horrible individualistic capitalist system are choosing 15 minutes to be
• 58:33
  Track 1: someone else because their lives are so terrible presumably just i mean it speaks
• 58:39
  Track 1: volumes of just the just i.
• 58:44
  Track 4: Feel like yeah like it speaks to you have
• 58:48
  Track 4: dissatisfaction with modern life and like from
• 58:50
  Track 4: a lot of different angles you have these lines of people
• 58:53
  Track 4: who are lining up to be someone else for even
• 58:56
  Track 4: 15 minutes and escape their lives you have
• 59:00
  Track 4: Lottie who you know is trying
• 59:03
  Track 4: to like you know it's the only time she has power otherwise she feels powerless
• 59:10
  Track 4: is when she's in John Malkovich and Maxine is you know kind of just chasing
• 59:17
  Track 4: illusions of power but also like ends up disillusioned with it at the end of
• 59:22
  Track 4: And it's just like everyone's unhappy for a different reason and they're all dissatisfied.
• 59:29
  Track 4: And I kind of feel like that's true under capitalism where like we're all just dissatisfied.
• 59:40
  Track 3: Capitalism's exploitation leading to alienation is probably the most consistent
• 59:46
  Track 3: string between our universes.
• 59:47
  Track 4: Yeah.
• 59:48
  Track 1: And every movie we cover.
• 59:49
  Track 2: Ooh, string?
• 59:51
  Track 2: Like a puppet string?
• 59:53
  Track 4: Wow.
• 59:54
  Track 3: No pun intended.
• 59:55
  Track 2: I really do think, you know, like as leftists,
• 59:59
  Track 2: as Marxists, you know, we talk about a lot of things, you know,
• 1:00:03
  Track 2: I do think that like alienation is something that needs to be at the forefront
• 1:00:12
  Track 2: of conversations with people outside of leftist or Marxist circles to,
• 1:00:19
  Track 2: to really, it's, it is one of the most important things to make clear to other people,
• 1:00:26
  Track 2: to bring them to the understanding of the issues at hand, but more importantly,
• 1:00:33
  Track 2: the personal issues, why they feel a way, why they're impacted by things.
• 1:00:41
  Track 2: And alienation is not an easy concept for a lot of people to grasp,
• 1:00:47
  Track 2: And it is presented often in a very poor way.
• 1:00:51
  Track 2: And I really do think that alienation is something that is so vital to understanding
• 1:00:58
  Track 2: for mental health alone and being able to cope with the system even as you struggle within it.
• 1:01:08
  Track 2: It is something, you know, and we come back to it all the time.
• 1:01:12
  Track 2: And I think the fact that we do and the fact that art does is so indicative
• 1:01:19
  Track 2: of the impact it has and the importance it has on human beings.
• 1:01:25
  Track 4: Well, yeah. I mean, I like talk a lot about, you know, if you can't boycott
• 1:01:32
  Track 4: or just want to do more, one of the best things you can do is go talk to your
• 1:01:37
  Track 4: neighbors and like build local community.
• 1:01:41
  Track 4: and it doesn't mean being best friends with your neighbors but just like.
• 1:01:45
  Track 4: Having a conversation with them and, you know, generally having a sense of like,
• 1:01:50
  Track 4: hey, you know, I could call you if I need a cup of sugar or something like that.
• 1:01:56
  Track 4: But I think that's the thing in our modern, like,
• 1:02:01
  Track 4: hyper-optimized capitalist world
• 1:02:05
  Track 4: we live in right now is that everything has made you so you just are.
• 1:02:11
  Track 4: You know, a unit that has moved throughout your day.
• 1:02:14
  Track 4: you you get up and you
• 1:02:17
  Track 4: get ready for work and then for most people you get in
• 1:02:20
  Track 4: your car by yourself to drive to your you know
• 1:02:23
  Track 4: cubicle by yourself or you work from home which is
• 1:02:27
  Track 4: amazing you know a lot of the time but can also be
• 1:02:30
  Track 4: isolating because you're just you know alone in
• 1:02:33
  Track 4: your house or maybe with you know other people um and
• 1:02:37
  Track 4: then so you like you basically go to work where you're
• 1:02:40
  Track 4: in your you know cubicle where you're sitting there
• 1:02:44
  Track 4: by yourself and probably in a bunch
• 1:02:47
  Track 4: of meetings all day where you have no absolute real connection you're
• 1:02:50
  Track 4: just trying to talk about whatever work stuff and then
• 1:02:53
  Track 4: you get in your car by yourself go home and and
• 1:02:57
  Track 4: I don't know if you have like a partner or something around that's
• 1:03:00
  Track 4: great but like otherwise you're by yourself again or maybe you
• 1:03:03
  Track 4: have some roommates that probably don't want to talk to you um
• 1:03:07
  Track 4: and so well I don't know it depends a new roommate situation I prefer when I've
• 1:03:13
  Track 4: had roommates I prefer them to be people that I'm not friends with because I
• 1:03:16
  Track 4: just find it easier um but or at least not close friends with not that I'm unfriendly
• 1:03:22
  Track 4: with but um but yeah I mean I think so much.
• 1:03:27
  Track 4: Even if you try to go out and like, like people are staring at their phones,
• 1:03:32
  Track 4: they're not looking around, they're not interacting with you.
• 1:03:35
  Track 4: They're just, or they have headphones in or whatever. Like we have so many ways
• 1:03:39
  Track 4: to separate ourselves from others that, um, I think people like,
• 1:03:45
  Track 4: honestly, since COVID have realized the importance of those small connections and the importance of,
• 1:03:50
  Track 4: talking to people and hanging out with them in person and catching up with your
• 1:03:54
  Track 4: friend, even if maybe you're, you know,
• 1:03:58
  Track 4: tired and don't want to do it, but you're like, okay, it's worth it.
• 1:04:00
  Track 4: I'll feel better in the end. Yeah.
• 1:04:03
  Track 2: But there's also the aspects of like alienation from oneself.
• 1:04:07
  Track 2: And that is the thing people do not, that is, that is something that we constantly come back to.
• 1:04:12
  Track 2: The alienation from oneself and how you are alienated from yourself by the system.
• 1:04:18
  Track 2: Because like you said, you're turned into a cog. you're just turned into a
• 1:04:21
  Track 2: thing that does what other people want to do that you don't
• 1:04:24
  Track 2: have investment in it's why like when i
• 1:04:27
  Track 2: became self-employed i became even more like literally
• 1:04:30
  Track 2: when i became self-employed i'm like i'm an independent contractor i do my
• 1:04:33
  Track 2: own work for myself i don't have employees you know i became even more a rabid
• 1:04:40
  Track 2: communist like because i'm like i want everyone to be able to have a say in
• 1:04:47
  Track 2: their life the way i do when it comes to their labor I want everyone to have that.
• 1:04:52
  Track 2: I want everyone to feel invested in that way because it is the antithesis of alienation.
• 1:05:01
  Track 2: When you feel connected to your labor and your life in a way through yourself.
• 1:05:08
  Track 3: As opposed to just typical Americans coming home from their job that they fucking
• 1:05:12
  Track 3: hate, doing stuff that they marginally enjoy at home.
• 1:05:16
  Track 3: feeling bad for it because they could be using that time to make more money
• 1:05:20
  Track 3: to cover all the rest of the fucking bills that they have to deal with.
• 1:05:23
  Track 2: And i don't even like sometimes i don't even like my job
• 1:05:26
  Track 2: like it's like but it's still better you know no matter what it's still like
• 1:05:31
  Track 2: you know sometimes i don't like it because you know like nothing is easy all
• 1:05:36
  Track 2: the time sometimes it's hard you know it's like i do physical labor you know
• 1:05:39
  Track 2: but it's still yeah at least at least i'm doing it for myself and my loved ones you.
• 1:05:45
  Track 4: Have so many people who are
• 1:05:48
  Track 4: just working jobs that they hate and even if
• 1:05:53
  Track 4: they came into it you know like
• 1:05:55
  Track 4: my professional experience is working in like marketing and you can go into
• 1:06:03
  Track 4: it and you there i've had clients before that were like good companies that
• 1:06:07
  Track 4: i like wanted to promote and you know wanted to do good work and liked what i was doing.
• 1:06:13
  Track 4: And I'd, you know, like I, there are parts of it that I really enjoyed and found
• 1:06:18
  Track 4: meaning in, but then like there was the other, you know, 98% of the time where it's just awful.
• 1:06:24
  Track 4: And then again, over the last few years, I feel like as office workers are being
• 1:06:31
  Track 4: like more and more optimized, it's just like any, any corporate job you get it.
• 1:06:38
  Track 4: Like, even if you went into it with the best intentions or, or thought it was
• 1:06:43
  Track 4: related to meaningful work.
• 1:06:44
  Track 4: I feel like that the profit motive just kills all of that so quickly.
• 1:06:51
  Track 2: Yeah. Evan, would you like to talk about your experience in the office? I can't hear you.
• 1:06:57
  Track 1: As someone who works in corporate America, that is 100% true.
• 1:07:01
  Track 4: I spent a long time in corporate America. I'm glad I'm out now.
• 1:07:05
  Track 1: Yeah it's yeah it's uh yeah it's its own um,
• 1:07:11
  Track 1: beast of things and yeah and
• 1:07:14
  Track 1: then and and the and what they do
• 1:07:17
  Track 1: and though i mean all these jobs are taking things away take away benefits
• 1:07:20
  Track 1: all these things but the way that they're always framed
• 1:07:23
  Track 1: is that it's you know actually it's actually good for you the worker somehow
• 1:07:27
  Track 1: that we're gonna you know make you go into the office three days a week because
• 1:07:31
  Track 1: then you get to socialize with other people and then take phone calls from your
• 1:07:35
  Track 1: desk for people who aren't in the office which i could have taken from my apartment
• 1:07:38
  Track 1: so yeah i had strong feelings about that.
• 1:07:41
  Track 4: I feel it i've like i've worked
• 1:07:44
  Track 4: at companies where everybody in like one offices area has to go into the office
• 1:07:50
  Track 4: but then by the time they enacted that policy everyone left that city so like
• 1:07:55
  Track 4: there would only be one or two people in the office and then like you'd have
• 1:07:58
  Track 4: to go like three days a week and it's like what is the point of this.
• 1:08:06
  Track 2: I feel like it is a it's an interesting note that to talk about like this kind
• 1:08:11
  Track 2: of thing and the fact that the portal is in an office building in an incredibly
• 1:08:15
  Track 2: uncomfortable floor of an office building.
• 1:08:18
  Track 1: Where they have to use a crowbar on the elevator.
• 1:08:21
  Track 4: That was the part that I just thought was so funny because you built the floor.
• 1:08:28
  Track 4: You could have figured out a way. And like the thing is too is that on the half
• 1:08:32
  Track 4: floor they have the elevator bays so like they i feel like they could have done
• 1:08:38
  Track 4: something and that's just crazy how like nope it's a crowbar yeah.
• 1:08:44
  Track 2: Dr
• 1:08:45
  Track 1: Lester has to.
• 1:08:46
  Track 2: Climb up that every day you have to you you can call the elevator to that floor
• 1:08:50
  Track 2: when you're on the floor but you.
• 1:08:53
  Track 4: Can't yeah go.
• 1:08:54
  Track 2: To the floor yeah.
• 1:08:56
  Track 4: It doesn't it's crazy yeah.
• 1:09:02
  Track 1: Stop questioning it, Bill.
• 1:09:03
  Track 3: You can't think about it too much. You just can't.
• 1:09:08
  Track 3: You got to pick a reality you like, and then hopefully it's happy,
• 1:09:11
  Track 3: and then you move forward.
• 1:09:15
  Track 4: Honestly, though, how I could see this playing out in the real world is that
• 1:09:19
  Track 4: they built the building before there was modern elevators. Maybe they had old ones or something.
• 1:09:26
  Track 4: And then they upgraded the elevators at some point. And they couldn't figure
• 1:09:31
  Track 4: out a way for the doors to open on the half floor.
• 1:09:34
  Track 4: So they're just like, okay, well, we'll just do a crowbar.
• 1:09:36
  Track 4: Like, not actually figuring out a solution, but just moving on.
• 1:09:42
  Track 3: See, I got similar thinking, if I am to think about this. Similar thinking, but Dr.
• 1:09:48
  Track 3: Lester never intended for anyone to ever go to that floor except for him.
• 1:09:52
  Track 3: But then the rampant capitalism, he's got to pay for shit and quality of life.
• 1:09:57
  Track 3: So now he's got to monetize that fucking floor.
• 1:10:00
  Track 3: So it was an afterthought of actually people going to that floor.
• 1:10:04
  Track 4: And they have that ongoing joke where it's like, well, the overhead's low.
• 1:10:09
  Track 2: That was pretty funny. That is a good joke. That's a really good joke. The overhead is low.
• 1:10:14
  Track 1: It's literally what an office would probably do at some point.
• 1:10:17
  Track 1: You could actually see a company being like, well, we'll have these short floors.
• 1:10:21
  Track 1: I mean, maybe not a half floor, but we'll just have a, you know.
• 1:10:24
  Track 3: Oh, they'll definitely bring the ceiling down and then have,
• 1:10:27
  Track 3: like, an orientation thing about how much they're saving percentage-wise per year just on AC alone.
• 1:10:33
  Track 1: Less heating.
• 1:10:34
  Track 4: But that's the thing, like, I don't know, it's, like, almost the scary side
• 1:10:39
  Track 4: of it is that you could see, like...
• 1:10:42
  Track 4: somehow this coming to fruition in real life because oh well we need to save
• 1:10:49
  Track 4: on real estate and okay we're just gonna have it be half the floor like it's
• 1:10:55
  Track 4: which is crazy like that's what we've come to is that that feels like it could
• 1:10:59
  Track 4: be an actual possibility it's.
• 1:11:01
  Track 2: A bad we live in.
• 1:11:02
  Track 4: A bad system hey.
• 1:11:05
  Track 3: It could be worse puppeteers could be a real job.
• 1:11:09
  Track 4: Okay you know what i'm just gonna put it out here.
• 1:11:12
  Track 4: I want to see the next puppeteer. If you're out there and you have an amazing
• 1:11:17
  Track 4: puppeteer act, hit me up at cutoff the spigot.
• 1:11:20
  Track 4: I want to see it because I really feel like there is artistry in it.
• 1:11:25
  Track 4: You need the Hamilton of puppetry to happen.
• 1:11:30
  Track 1: Yeah. Lin-Manuel Moran. I said his name wrong.
• 1:11:35
  Track 2: Wow.
• 1:11:37
  Track 1: If you're listening...
• 1:11:40
  Track 2: Make make this happen wait you you're asking specifically in manuel miranda to make no he.
• 1:11:47
  Track 1: Can he can find the the people that can make that happen.
• 1:11:50
  Track 2: He's got the.
• 1:11:51
  Track 1: He's got the skills.
• 1:11:51
  Track 2: Just muppets muppets are fine we got muppets muppets are fine bring us some
• 1:11:56
  Track 2: muppets if you got muppets out there and bring us some muppets yeah.
• 1:11:59
  Track 4: I feel like i'm the only person who's like.
• 1:12:01
  Track 2: In different.
• 1:12:04
  Track 4: I know people love them, but I've just never, like, they're okay,
• 1:12:09
  Track 4: but I've never been like, oh, I love the Muppets.
• 1:12:13
  Track 2: Well, there goes that friendship.
• 1:12:18
  Track 3: I'm on board now because of having to watch the Muppets Christmas Carol for
• 1:12:24
  Track 3: the podcast episode. I was like, oh, shit.
• 1:12:27
  Track 3: You know, I was never like a Muppets guy at all before this.
• 1:12:31
  Track 4: But uh maybe that's what i need it's kind of sick.
• 1:12:32
  Track 3: I like this this is good.
• 1:12:34
  Track 4: I i honestly like i don't think i've seen any of the muppet movies or anything so maybe that.
• 1:12:40
  Track 1: One is really good and it has uh and it has um yeah michael kane is the as the one.
• 1:12:45
  Track 4: Human well i do love michael kane yeah.
• 1:12:49
  Track 2: Muppet christmas carol is and then you can listen to our episode which features
• 1:12:53
  Track 2: my wife which we talk about love because my my wife loves a muppet christmas
• 1:12:58
  Track 2: carol and muppets in general.
• 1:13:00
  Track 2: We have a Muppet.
• 1:13:03
  Track 4: I'll have to check it out.
• 1:13:05
  Track 1: I realized at the beginning you didn't tell people about your cut off the spigot, Alexa.
• 1:13:11
  Track 2: Yes, please. And tell us about Cut Off the Spigot.
• 1:13:13
  Track 4: Yeah. So with Cut Off the Spigot, I research alternatives to badly behaving
• 1:13:19
  Track 4: companies, big corporations, and private equity firms.
• 1:13:21
  Track 4: So I share articles on Substack every Friday. And then I make video recaps on
• 1:13:27
  Track 4: Instagram, TikTok, Upscroll, YouTube, Blue Sky.
• 1:13:32
  Track 4: And then I also have my website, cutoffthespigot.com, where you can find,
• 1:13:38
  Track 4: you can search articles, find resources, shop my merch and all sorts of fun stuff.
• 1:13:43
  Track 4: But basically, I find alternatives so you don't have to.
• 1:13:48
  Track 1: Well, Lexa, thank you for coming back on Left of the Projector.
• 1:13:52
  Track 1: It was, we all went through the portal into John Malkovich together here.
• 1:13:58
  Track 4: Yeah. but it's so gooey it was gooey.
• 1:14:03
  Track 1: Yeah um.
• 1:14:04
  Track 4: But thank you so much for having me again.
• 1:14:06
  Track 1: Of course so you should go check out those channels that are in the description
• 1:14:10
  Track 1: and you can if you're listening to this you haven't subscribed you can subscribe
• 1:14:14
  Track 1: at left of the projector.com on any of the platforms you so choose and we will catch you next time.