Latest / Voices of the Albemarle / Ep. 31: Housing and Affordability with Darius Walton

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Ep. 31: Housing and Affordability with Darius Walton · Voices of the Albemarle

0:13
SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome back to Voices of the Albumarl.
0:16
SPEAKER_01: I'm Izzy Kelly Goss, your host.
0:17
SPEAKER_03: And I'm not.
0:18
SPEAKER_01: No, he's David Prizer, my co-host and publisher.
0:22
SPEAKER_03: Wacky co-host.
0:23
SPEAKER_01: Woohoo.
0:24
SPEAKER_03: Don't forget wacky.
0:25
SPEAKER_01: He's very wacky.
0:30
SPEAKER_01: Did you just play a sound effect?
0:31
SPEAKER_01: What was that?
0:33
SPEAKER_04: Was that your phone?
0:34
SPEAKER_04: Yes, I was screwing around with my phone.
0:37
SPEAKER_01: Well, we should leave that part in.
0:38
SPEAKER_01: It sounded like a sound effect.
0:40
SPEAKER_01: It adds to your wackability.
0:41
SPEAKER_04: Usually I'm so mesmerized by what you're saying, but this time around, it was a little bit.
0:45
SPEAKER_01: Wow, I'm boring you today.
0:48
SPEAKER_01: Well, today we're going to be talking about housing affordability across the state, especially in northeastern North Carolina.
0:54
SPEAKER_01: We will be joined by real estate agent and Southern City's realty broker in charge, Darius Walton, who will provide us with an insider's look at the current housing market.
1:03
SPEAKER_01: But first, many people gathered at the Berkwimans County Courthouse and the Great Dismal Swamp Park last Friday to commemorate the 25th anniversary of the tragic terrorist attacks on September 11th, 2001.
1:15
SPEAKER_01: The events were complete with keynote speakers, flag ceremonies at both events, uh, and the ceremony at the Dismal Swamp Park ended with a memorial ride where dozens of motorcyclists and vintage cars drove over 60 miles from the park to H2OBX water park in Kuratuck.
1:33
SPEAKER_01: Um by all accounts, both events were were very, very nice, very memorable, um, and great memorials of a terrible tragedy in the United States.
1:46
SPEAKER_04: I'm still hearing stories about that in that what went on at nine on 9-11 that I didn't hear originally.
1:55
SPEAKER_01: Things that you had no idea about.
1:56
SPEAKER_04: It's it it's I'm uh I'm still amazed that I that I actually run into people that weren't even alive or didn't even recognize it.
2:03
SPEAKER_04: I remember where I was and and very vividly, I distinctly remember.
2:08
SPEAKER_00: Was alive, but I was not conscious.
2:11
SPEAKER_00: I was nine months old.
2:12
SPEAKER_04: I can remember I was working in a newspaper, and uh I just happened to be outside the the newsroom.
2:17
SPEAKER_04: They had I had a TV view, and I'm on the phone with with someone, and they said, you know, there was a private plane ran into uh uh the tower, because that's what I thought it was.
2:29
SPEAKER_04: Everybody thought it was private.
2:30
SPEAKER_04: And so I'm just looking out there, and all of a sudden I see a plane go into the tower, and I said that must that must have been a rerun of the whole thing, and it wasn't it was live, it was it was number two.
2:42
SPEAKER_04: Good God.
2:44
SPEAKER_04: That's amazing.
2:46
SPEAKER_01: It's it's horrifying.
2:47
SPEAKER_04: And I I had worked there like about eight months before.
2:50
SPEAKER_04: I used to get I used to get off at just for the heck of it, get off the World Trade Center of the subway once in a while.
2:56
SPEAKER_04: And so my office was about it was maybe half a mile away from the World Trade Center.
3:04
SPEAKER_01: So were you in New York City at the time?
3:06
SPEAKER_04: No.
3:06
SPEAKER_01: No, okay.
3:07
SPEAKER_01: You had moved okay.
3:09
SPEAKER_01: Um both events were were really, really great events.
3:13
SPEAKER_01: There were all sorts of people who came together to to memorialize and celebrate the wonderful lives of all of the people who were tragically lost.
3:23
SPEAKER_01: Um, there are photographs and articles um in Perk Women's Weekly and in the Daily Advance for both of those events.
3:31
SPEAKER_01: So be sure to check those out if you were not able to make it.
3:35
SPEAKER_01: Uh next, the Manhattan Short Film Festival will return to the Arts of the Albemarle on September 24th and 25th, beginning at 6 30 p.m.
3:43
SPEAKER_01: Both both evenings.
3:44
SPEAKER_04: How short?
3:45
SPEAKER_01: Real short.
3:46
SPEAKER_01: I think the the longest film is 22 minutes, and I think the shortest film is like three minutes.
3:52
SPEAKER_04: So perfect, real short.
3:54
SPEAKER_04: Great for my attention span.
3:55
SPEAKER_04: I like that.
3:56
SPEAKER_01: This is the 29th year of the event, and uh there's 10 films, so maybe not super great for your attention span.
4:03
SPEAKER_01: Depends on how many 10 films, and this year all 10 films are from 10 different countries.
4:09
SPEAKER_04: So which they're all short, but they're all short countries.
4:11
SPEAKER_01: They're all short.
4:13
SPEAKER_01: Us.
4:14
SPEAKER_01: That's pretty short.
4:15
unknown: Okay.
4:16
SPEAKER_03: Uh there is the U.
4:18
SPEAKER_01: The US.
4:19
SPEAKER_01: There's one from the United States, there's one from Mexico, Georgia, Russia.
4:23
SPEAKER_04: Um Georgia's a state.
4:26
SPEAKER_01: Georgia, the country.
4:27
SPEAKER_01: There's also a country.
4:28
SPEAKER_01: Really?
4:29
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
4:29
SPEAKER_01: Russia, Mexico, Cuba.
4:32
SPEAKER_01: There's a full list in in the article that I wrote, which was out in the um weekend edition this past weekend.
4:41
SPEAKER_01: So be sure to check that out if you are interested in in reading a synopsis, or you can check out the Manhattan short film website.
4:48
SPEAKER_01: I wrote synopsis for all 10 films.
4:52
SPEAKER_04: Synopsis.
4:53
SPEAKER_01: Synopses.
4:54
SPEAKER_01: Synopsis for plummeted.
4:56
SPEAKER_04: Synopsis sounds like a like a like a like one of those weird tech bands.
5:01
SPEAKER_04: Synopsis performing live.
5:05
SPEAKER_01: Synopsis.
5:06
SPEAKER_01: The audience gets to vote for their favorite film and actor.
5:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, and all of those votes are tallied in short.
5:13
SPEAKER_01: Internationally, yes.
5:15
SPEAKER_01: The actors.
5:16
SPEAKER_04: Yes, yes.
5:18
SPEAKER_04: Also, everyone ruined it is their idol, you know.
5:21
SPEAKER_01: Every film is eligible for an Oscar nomination.
5:24
SPEAKER_04: A very short film.
5:24
SPEAKER_04: Which is really cool.
5:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they they it's it's the short, it is the short film category.
5:30
SPEAKER_01: So Oscar himself.
5:32
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if that's actually what those seconds are.
5:37
SPEAKER_01: Tickets are on sale now at Arts of the Albemarle for$15 for non-members, 12 members,$12 for members, and military and$10 for students.
5:45
SPEAKER_01: Uh finally, um, Robert Nygi and Laszlo Kiss were the recipients of 200,000 Hungarian forts, or around$640, for winning first place in a grave digging contest a couple of weeks.
6:02
SPEAKER_04: Oh my goodness.
6:03
SPEAKER_04: Oh my goodness.
6:04
SPEAKER_01: Yes, according to the Associated Press article, their time was one hour and 21 minutes to dig a five and a half foot deep six and a half foot long grave.
6:15
SPEAKER_01: So basically, they and like 38 other contestants, they just go at it and they dig a grave as fast as they possibly can.
6:24
SPEAKER_01: And um, yeah, it's a it's uh, I think an annual contest in Hungary, which is so interesting.
6:31
SPEAKER_04: What was uh the Robert De Niro and Danny, whatever his name is, or the the good good fellows?
6:39
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, the good fellows.
6:40
SPEAKER_04: That that would that would have that would have shortened that film a lot.
6:45
SPEAKER_04: Here, quick and dig a hole, dig a hole.
6:47
SPEAKER_04: Okay, fine.
6:47
SPEAKER_01: We're just or it would have been the entire film, an hour and twenty-one minutes.
6:51
SPEAKER_04: There you go.
6:52
SPEAKER_04: Hmm.
6:53
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it's apparently it's a big deal.
6:56
SPEAKER_01: So um what do you mean?
6:57
SPEAKER_04: No, time out.
6:59
SPEAKER_04: What what is a big deal?
7:01
SPEAKER_01: The the good fellas.
7:03
SPEAKER_01: Well, that too.
7:03
SPEAKER_01: But no, the the the grave digging contest.
7:08
SPEAKER_01: Um, it's it's in a cemetery that I cannot pronounce, which is why I'm just saying, you can have a speed funeral.
7:17
SPEAKER_01: Uh I don't know if the funeral itself is speedy, but the burial process, I would imagine, is probably.
7:23
SPEAKER_01: That is that is what the the winner, Robert Nighty, that's what he said.
7:28
SPEAKER_01: This is a quote.
7:29
SPEAKER_04: How big is the grave?
7:30
SPEAKER_01: It's five and a half feet deep and six and a half feet long.
7:34
SPEAKER_01: So there's so much.
7:35
SPEAKER_04: Is that how is that a standard grave?
7:37
SPEAKER_04: I wouldn't know.
7:37
SPEAKER_01: I think so.
7:38
SPEAKER_01: Isn't that the isn't that I know?
7:40
SPEAKER_01: No, hold on, but isn't that the thing?
7:41
SPEAKER_01: It's like six feet underground.
7:44
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna put you six feet in the ground.
7:45
SPEAKER_01: That's probably what they said in good fellas.
7:48
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna put you six feet under.
7:50
SPEAKER_01: Did I sound like No, you didn't.
7:52
SPEAKER_04: You don't sound very intimidating.
7:54
SPEAKER_01: Well, I'll work on it.
7:56
SPEAKER_01: Um, but that is, yeah.
7:57
SPEAKER_01: Speed is the main thing.
7:58
SPEAKER_03: I'd like to make you an offer, you can't refuse.
8:02
SPEAKER_01: You come to me on this, the day of my daughter's wedding.
8:05
SPEAKER_03: Oh, taking it to the mattresses.
8:07
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's great.
8:11
SPEAKER_01: On that super intimidating note, I think we're gonna go ahead and uh mafioso days are uh Yeah.
8:19
SPEAKER_01: They couldn't, they don't I don't think they'd put me sleeping with the fishes, though.
8:23
SPEAKER_01: I'm too too adorable.
8:25
SPEAKER_01: Who could say no to this space?
8:26
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I'm I couldn't sleep with the fishes.
8:28
SPEAKER_04: I'd only be there a couple hours and I'd be up.
8:31
SPEAKER_01: Let's head on over to our interview with Darius Walton to talk about affordability.
8:37
SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to Voices of the Albumarl, and thank you so much to Darius Walton for joining us today.
8:42
SPEAKER_01: We are really excited to have you on.
8:44
SPEAKER_01: Um, I've been really looking forward to this, and and I'm so glad to have met you last week so we can can have you on.
8:52
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
8:52
SPEAKER_02: Thank you for having me.
8:54
SPEAKER_02: Uh I'm quite sure this will be a great experience.
8:56
SPEAKER_02: Uh I will love to share whatever info that I can to be able to help the community.
9:00
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I appreciate you for having me on the platform.
9:03
SPEAKER_01: Of course.
9:04
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
9:04
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I think this was great timing to to run into you and to meet you and and hear your perspective on some things.
9:11
SPEAKER_01: When we met at the cryptocurrency roundtable last week with Don Davis, Congressman Don Davis.
9:17
SPEAKER_01: Um for those who don't know, there will be an article in print about that event in the Daily Advance.
9:22
SPEAKER_01: Just have to plug that in.
9:24
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I I met you there and was really impressed by what you had to say, and a lot of what you said kind of piqued my interest, and and that's why you're here.
9:34
SPEAKER_04: Um it's a it's a it's a subject that people are thinking about, but they don't really voice, they can voice their opinion, but they don't talk about how to take action on it.
9:44
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
9:44
SPEAKER_04: And so I'd be interested to hear what what you have to say.
9:47
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I definitely think you have a valuable perspective.
9:50
SPEAKER_01: Um so just because I already do know a little bit about your background, I'm hoping you can give our listeners a little bit about your background so they know you know what you're talking about and and where you're coming from.
10:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
10:01
SPEAKER_02: So to start off, I was born and raised here in northeastern North Carolina.
10:05
SPEAKER_02: Uh I went to Northeastern High School here in Elizabeth City.
10:08
SPEAKER_06: Go easy.
10:08
SPEAKER_02: Um I would say Elizabeth City has a dominant presence in this region and uh is real is well respected.
10:14
SPEAKER_02: And uh I'm I'm proud of that.
10:16
SPEAKER_02: And so coming out of northeastern North Carolina, uh, I was able to uh I knew I wanted to stay close, but uh I didn't necessarily uh just like most people, most younger people here, which is uh, which I'm I'm saying is a could be a problem, they don't necessarily want to stay here, right?
10:31
SPEAKER_02: When they go to college, they want to go to Chapel Hill, NC State, ECU, um, North Carolina Central, North Carolina AT.
10:38
SPEAKER_02: They kind of want to go further west, yeah, uh is how I will put it.
10:42
SPEAKER_02: And uh so I ended up going to NC State.
10:44
SPEAKER_02: Um, I also wanted to play uh D1 football.
10:47
SPEAKER_02: So uh ended up playing football in NC State for about a year.
10:51
SPEAKER_02: And uh during that time, funny enough, I was able to get my real estate license.
10:55
SPEAKER_02: So I got my real estate license almost immediately after turning 18.
10:59
SPEAKER_02: And um, I always had a passion for.
11:01
SPEAKER_02: Um I uh hit uh I did a wholesale deal when I was 18 years old here in Elizabeth City, right off of Pear Tree.
11:10
SPEAKER_02: And uh somebody was about to lose their house.
11:13
SPEAKER_02: I prevented them from going into foreclosure.
11:14
SPEAKER_02: I got an investor to come in and buy it.
11:16
SPEAKER_02: I made me some good pocket change and they made a killing off of it.
11:20
SPEAKER_02: But um at the end of the day, I realized how powerful real estate was.
11:24
SPEAKER_02: And um, and you know, with power comes great responsibility.
11:28
SPEAKER_02: And I felt like that's something that I was just really up to the task for.
11:31
SPEAKER_02: Uh I felt like uh I knew a lot of people in the industry, and um, it just naturally clicked.
11:37
SPEAKER_02: So I kept that in mind while I was in college, as I was picking my major.
11:41
SPEAKER_02: Um, I went in as first year engineering at NC State, and um, and that wasn't working out.
11:47
SPEAKER_02: You know, I was falling asleep in the front of class and all that good stuff.
11:50
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, doing football and engineering isn't isn't for the week, right?
11:54
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I uh I said, hey, what am I really interested in?
11:58
SPEAKER_02: Because I really wasn't interested in, you know, calc three and all that stuff.
12:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
12:01
SPEAKER_02: It just really wasn't making sense to me.
12:02
SPEAKER_02: And I said, you know what?
12:04
SPEAKER_02: I I'm I'm kind of I kind of like this account and stuff.
12:07
SPEAKER_02: I get to read these financial statements, uh, understand how business operates and everything like that.
12:11
SPEAKER_02: And uh and I fell in love with it and I turned out to be really good at it, and uh ended up being uh the top of my major uh coming out of college.
12:22
SPEAKER_02: And uh ended up after college, after graduating with my accountant uh accountant degree with honors, I ended up going to uh a company called Deloitte.
12:30
SPEAKER_02: It's a consultant firm.
12:31
SPEAKER_02: Um and uh they're a national consultant firm and uh or international, and uh they have a huge presence in Charlotte, and that's where I decided to go.
12:40
SPEAKER_02: It was between Charlotte or Raleigh, and uh I decided to move from Raleigh at NC State and go see what the housing market in Charlotte was about, right?
12:48
SPEAKER_02: So I'm always I'm still real estate oriented, even though I'm going to go work for a consulting firm for IT audit.
12:54
SPEAKER_02: And so um when I got there, I said, Hey, how's this, how can I relate this to real estate?
12:59
SPEAKER_02: And they said, you know, we can put you on some clients or even some banks that are tied into real estate and where you can audit their business process systems.
13:08
SPEAKER_02: I said, great.
13:09
SPEAKER_02: And um from there, I ended up uh, you know, working there.
13:13
SPEAKER_02: It was it was hard work um while I was getting my master's degree in real estate finance and development.
13:20
SPEAKER_02: And so I kind of used that to fund that degree, and uh I would say it was one of the best things I could have possibly done.
13:26
SPEAKER_02: It allowed me to realize how political real estate was and uh again, another how powerful it was and how important it is uh to the infrastructure of any community.
13:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:36
SPEAKER_02: And um and that's pretty much where, you know, that's as far as my education goes.
13:42
SPEAKER_02: But then I took it a step further.
13:43
SPEAKER_02: I already had my real estate license.
13:45
SPEAKER_02: I had attained my mortgage loan origination license while I was in college as well.
13:49
SPEAKER_02: Even though I didn't leverage it as much, um, I still had some pretty decent experience with it.
13:53
SPEAKER_02: And uh just so recently, uh about a year ago, I got my general contractor's license.
13:58
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
13:59
SPEAKER_02: Um, and so that allows me to see the actual hard cost that goes into building.
14:03
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
14:04
SPEAKER_02: Which is uh something that a lot of people just, it's just an abstract concept.
14:07
SPEAKER_02: Like if I asked you, hey, how much is a is a border drywall right now, you probably wouldn't know.
14:12
SPEAKER_02: Uh or a two by four, right?
14:13
SPEAKER_02: And so just getting intimate with that and understanding like what really goes into the hard asset, what really goes into building a home, um, I think it's giving me a different perspective to be able to speak from when it comes um comes to affordability.
14:26
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, there you see uh you're gonna get into some things that have that are specific to Elizabeth City, I understand.
14:32
SPEAKER_04: But you indicated, you said that real estate is powerful.
14:35
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
14:36
SPEAKER_04: Could you say, could you explain what you mean by real estate is powerful?
14:40
SPEAKER_02: It depends on uh what perspective you're speaking from.
14:43
SPEAKER_02: It's powerful from pretty much every perspective, but how it's powerful, uh it depends on you know what position you're speaking from.
14:50
SPEAKER_02: Um, if you are your everyday person, uh you just got a job here in Elizabeth City and you need somewhere to stay.
14:57
SPEAKER_02: Well, having somewhere to stay is powerful, one thing, right?
15:00
SPEAKER_02: Because if you don't, you got to commute.
15:01
SPEAKER_02: You know, I know I actually know uh some friends of mine up in Boston.
15:06
SPEAKER_02: Uh they commute an hour and a half, two hours to work every single day.
15:11
SPEAKER_02: Right.
15:11
SPEAKER_02: So talk about affordable housing affordability and the impact of it.
15:15
SPEAKER_02: And um so it's powerful from that perspective, having access to it.
15:19
SPEAKER_02: And also from a wealth building as a wealth, a major wealth building mechanism here in America.
15:24
SPEAKER_02: Um, the ability to own land and uh produce an income off of it and make a profit off of it.
15:29
SPEAKER_02: Um, it's it's landlord is one of the most understandable uh forms of business operation that there is.
15:37
SPEAKER_02: Um, it's one of the most longstanding.
15:39
SPEAKER_02: And uh when used correctly, it can literally take you um directly through you know all the economic classes.
15:49
SPEAKER_02: You could start from nothing, and if you're strategic about it, you could amass a large amount of wealth.
15:54
SPEAKER_01: Haven't you ever played Monopoly, David?
15:56
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, no, I I wanted to know what uh Darius's take.
16:00
SPEAKER_04: I mean, uh you you mentioned like the the commute, if you will.
16:04
SPEAKER_04: I mean, I I lived in California and I lived in Oakland, California, you know, small home, big, big expense.
16:11
SPEAKER_04: And I knew people that were working in Silicon Valley, but they couldn't live in Silicon Valley, they were living like two hours away.
16:18
SPEAKER_04: Oh, yes, and so it's not uncommon to have people commuting, and that the disparity there was like very huge.
16:25
SPEAKER_04: And and I know that you're gonna talk about affordability here.
16:28
SPEAKER_04: So I it it it is striking.
16:31
SPEAKER_04: And so I just want to know your take on real estate, it's powerful.
16:35
SPEAKER_04: I'm not hearing from you.
16:36
SPEAKER_04: This is not a negative, I'm not hearing from you the emotional aspect of oh, my home is so wonderful.
16:46
SPEAKER_04: I'm hearing from you a kind of a business, nuts and bolts.
16:50
SPEAKER_04: And that seems like where you started.
16:53
SPEAKER_04: I mean, you you went to college, you didn't even work, you weren't gonna study accounting.
16:56
SPEAKER_04: You went to college and figure out you ran into accounting.
16:59
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's right.
17:00
SPEAKER_04: You're a nut.
17:02
SPEAKER_04: You're crazy, man.
17:03
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
17:04
SPEAKER_02: And uh I think you're hitting on something there.
17:06
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I've talked to a lot of people, and uh, so as you know, a real tour, they normally help uh residents or uh of a community or people who are moving to a community find a home to live in.
17:17
SPEAKER_02: Um, and that is more on the uh, as you would say, emotional side of things.
17:22
SPEAKER_02: And uh where, hey, what color are the walls?
17:24
SPEAKER_02: Right, you know, you know, is it enough bedrooms, you know, whatever the case might be.
17:29
SPEAKER_02: Uh, all these different preferences that go into that aren't necessarily economic that go into uh making that decision.
17:38
SPEAKER_02: Um, I look at real estate a lot differently.
17:40
SPEAKER_02: Um as a general contractor, you could say that, especially starting out, you fall in love with everything that you build.
17:48
SPEAKER_02: So imagine having that emotional attachment to everything that you built and everything that you have to you because you have to sell as a business.
17:55
SPEAKER_02: And so you kind of have to make that distinction.
17:57
SPEAKER_02: And I think that distinction gives me a very special glance into things, especially even coming from the investment world.
18:03
SPEAKER_02: Because um, I've invested in residential real estate as well.
18:07
SPEAKER_02: And uh I think that distinction was made for me very early.
18:11
SPEAKER_02: Like, hey, sure, real estate is a is a you get a home, it's a you know, it's a happy place and everything, but what is it really?
18:18
SPEAKER_02: I look at it as it's one of the biggest economic tools uh or or fuel uh or cogs or wheels in this economic environment uh for lenders to lend money um and for to prop our entire nation on.
18:34
SPEAKER_02: Um I think that without housing and being able to finance housing, uh it would it could be devastating, right?
18:44
SPEAKER_02: And I think that's why uh I and I was talking to her about this not too long ago.
18:49
SPEAKER_02: Um, I think when we at Don Davis, when we were talking with Don Davis, I was saying, hey, there needs to be a discussion had is ownership really worth it?
19:00
SPEAKER_02: You know, um for some people, I would say no.
19:03
SPEAKER_04: I I that's that that's a subject that that's coming up and today it used to be always own, always owned.
19:10
SPEAKER_04: And you when I was growing up, invest in real estate, it it'll never go down.
19:16
SPEAKER_04: You know, I'm not gonna say it never goes down.
19:18
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, but now you've got so many other things.
19:20
SPEAKER_04: I mean, then it became commodities, and then and then now it's it's it's crypto and and who knows what's next, you know.
19:28
SPEAKER_02: I I think that there is an idea of diversification going on out there, like, hey, I'll throw a little bit in real estate, and you know, it should be able to hedge against inflation.
19:39
SPEAKER_02: And I know that's a bunch of technical jargon, but ultimately, I think that there's an investment side of things.
19:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, this world of investors that use real estate as this hedge, and then you have this uh this everyday consumer of real estate and how they think, and they say, hey, I buy a house, I'm building generational wealth.
19:56
SPEAKER_02: Well, you really have to look at the money that you're spending in rent versus your unrecoverable costs of ownership.
20:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
20:04
SPEAKER_02: And um, and when you really break it down, it was one of my, it was just something I, you know, I'm a I got my master's in real estate, finance, and development.
20:11
SPEAKER_02: So I made a lot of models just from scratch, and that's just something that I do on my free time.
20:16
SPEAKER_02: And um, I made one particular model probably three, four years ago, and it was an amortization table of uh regular fixed 30-year mortgage.
20:27
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I played as I was playing with the variables, I saw just how much money you were paying in interest for the first 10 years.
20:35
SPEAKER_02: So you're telling me, hey, I I'm supposed to forfeit all these lovely amenities in the middle of Charlotte, North Carolina.
20:42
SPEAKER_02: You know, I can basically be getting my feet rubbed every week, you know, for$2,200 a month.
20:48
SPEAKER_02: And you want me to go pay a mortgage for$2,200 a month, maintain my own line.
20:52
SPEAKER_02: Anything goes wrong with it is my fault.
20:54
SPEAKER_02: I have to fix it and put my C.
20:56
SPEAKER_02: Come on.
20:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, come on.
20:57
SPEAKER_01: Those are expensive costs.
20:59
SPEAKER_02: Right.
20:59
SPEAKER_02: And so when you think about that, that's a hard, that's that's you know, people have been brainwashed to say, hey, ownership no matter what, hey, I what's the average appreciation rate?
21:09
SPEAKER_02: Let's let's not talk about COVID, what happened during COVID, okay?
21:12
SPEAKER_02: That's an anomaly.
21:13
SPEAKER_02: You know, you have people double their home values, right?
21:15
SPEAKER_02: You know, so you can't look at that and say, I'm gonna make an investment decision off of that.
21:18
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
21:19
SPEAKER_02: If I'm, you know, and I love to people say it all the time, hey, a home is the biggest investment most people will make in their life.
21:27
SPEAKER_02: And I say investment on purpose.
21:28
SPEAKER_02: I'm not saying, hey, you're just buying something that makes you feel good.
21:31
SPEAKER_02: I'm saying, hey, investment.
21:32
SPEAKER_02: This is the biggest investment you will make in your life.
21:36
SPEAKER_02: And do you, if you think about it logically, when you actually do your homework, you'll realize, hey, I'm better off in most cases.
21:46
SPEAKER_02: In most cases, I'm better off if I'm gonna move in five years, if I'm gonna move in six years, based on average appreciation rates, I'm better off not buying this home.
21:54
SPEAKER_02: Right.
21:55
SPEAKER_02: I'm better off renting, I'm better off getting everything taken care of.
21:58
SPEAKER_02: And I think that's a realization that we have.
22:00
SPEAKER_02: A big conversation that we have to talk about when we talk about affordability.
22:04
SPEAKER_02: And it's it hurts because the American dream, as I was telling you about, um, the American dream, I was I was saying, hey, this is it's kind of been robbed.
22:13
SPEAKER_02: It's kind of we've kind of been robbed of the American dream.
22:15
SPEAKER_02: That typical starter home that we that that is non-existent.
22:19
SPEAKER_04: When I when I hear starter home prices right now, I'm stunned.
22:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:23
SPEAKER_01: I mean, and that's a that's a great segue into my next question.
22:26
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
22:28
SPEAKER_01: Um, I want to we'll jump forward or back rather to the American dream tidbit.
22:34
SPEAKER_01: I want to give some background, but I want to talk about like the trends in buying right now.
22:41
SPEAKER_01: Because, like you said, there are so many people, especially in our generation, that are realizing buying a home is not going to be for everyone.
22:48
SPEAKER_01: If we're talking about a home, like making a home and and that emotional aspect, people are realizing you don't have to own that.
22:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:55
SPEAKER_01: You can you can find an apartment, you can find a home for rent that you really love and that feels like your home and still rent it because you know, you don't want to have to pay$10,000 to replace your air conditioning system.
23:09
SPEAKER_01: You don't want to have to pay to call a plumber every time there's an issue.
23:15
SPEAKER_01: A lot of that, I think, probably has to do with the economy.
23:20
SPEAKER_01: Um, you guys, you have you have your own real estate company, right?
23:25
SPEAKER_01: You're a broker, broker in charge of Southern City's Realty.
23:29
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
23:29
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
23:29
SPEAKER_01: And you sell homes all across the state from Charlotte to Nag's Head, Elizabeth City, everywhere.
23:34
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
23:36
SPEAKER_01: Do you feel like there's been a trend or a downtrend rather in people choosing not to buy homes?
23:42
SPEAKER_01: Do you feel like the buying diff patterns are just different or are they declining?
23:47
SPEAKER_02: That is a very interesting question.
23:49
SPEAKER_02: I think we have to look at this in in segments.
23:52
SPEAKER_02: I think there are market segments when you when you talk about uh you know demand and supply.
23:59
SPEAKER_02: Um you have different, you have different uh categories of buyers and or or different slots of demand.
24:06
SPEAKER_00: Right.
24:07
SPEAKER_02: Um it's interesting uh when you say trends because just probably a year ago, we were still experiencing some of the benefit of what we came off of COVID from.
24:19
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
24:20
SPEAKER_02: Maybe a year and some change ago.
24:21
SPEAKER_02: And um and in certain segments, uh, we have begun to see, you know, longer days on market.
24:30
SPEAKER_02: Uh even in the uh, even in the the the what I would I like to say, it's my own coin.
24:37
SPEAKER_02: I coined this term, it's called, I call it the liquidity zone for for real estate.
24:41
SPEAKER_02: So even in the the at that price point where you think it's just it's supposed to get off really fast, like the homes are uh supposed to sell uh pretty fast compared to uh other other price points, um, even those properties have seen uh some decline in uh and I guess demand.
25:00
SPEAKER_02: And um, but what I will say is that you have luxury home builders, and this is my point, you have luxury home builders.
25:06
SPEAKER_02: They're seeing them, I mean, they're having a they're having in in near these major metros like O'Raley and Charlotte, and this is just one demand pocket that I'm speaking to.
25:14
SPEAKER_06: Right.
25:15
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you throw up a luxury home, a spec, a spec build, that means like they don't have a buyer yet.
25:19
SPEAKER_02: Right, right, yeah, but they're you know, this is a two million dollar house, right?
25:23
SPEAKER_02: 2.5 million dollar house, it'll get sold.
25:26
SPEAKER_02: Right now, you do have some sitting on the market in which you know you'll see, but near those areas, we have so many people coming from up north and yeah, California and some of these Chicago that are used to these outrageous, I mean, literally outrageous prices.
25:43
SPEAKER_02: And to them, it's it looks it looks like candy down here, right?
25:46
SPEAKER_02: Right.
25:46
SPEAKER_02: And to us, we're like, hey, we're this is ridiculous.
25:49
SPEAKER_02: You're talking for for this house that looks like maybe a couple years ago was worth$400,000,$300,000.
25:55
SPEAKER_02: It's a million dollars now in the same, you know what I mean?
25:58
SPEAKER_02: So it's uh it's interesting that you say the trends because there's so many different things going on.
26:05
SPEAKER_02: You have uh buy you have bought people who bought during you know pre-COVID, during COVID, getting two percent interest rates, right?
26:14
SPEAKER_02: You know, and now they're like, hey, I don't, I'm not, I don't want to sell.
26:17
SPEAKER_02: But then at the same time, they're have having to battle with the fact that hey, these are pretty high, you know, this it's not looking too good right now.
26:25
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, everything is relative.
26:26
SPEAKER_04: I guess dating myself, I actually had a mortgage at 9.9 at one point.
26:32
SPEAKER_04: But that was because I want I was early getting married, that's right, and I thought we were supposed to have a home.
26:40
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I also thought we were supposed to be married.
26:41
SPEAKER_04: Dumb me.
26:43
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
26:43
SPEAKER_01: So we're not gonna talk about your divorce against the week.
26:47
SPEAKER_04: I figured we would do that and then maybe refinance at some point, you know.
26:51
SPEAKER_04: I guess that would be.
26:54
SPEAKER_04: But the when, like you said, when people are at three percent and now they're looking at mortgage rates at six and seven, they say, there's no way I could do this.
27:02
SPEAKER_04: But if if you're if you're all old like me and you remember nine, okay, fine.
27:06
SPEAKER_04: I know they're they're fluid, they're liquid.
27:08
SPEAKER_04: I don't know that that they're gonna go back down the two and three.
27:11
SPEAKER_04: I'm not telling you that I know that, but they're somewhat fluid.
27:15
SPEAKER_04: And and that's experience, that's longevity.
27:18
SPEAKER_04: That's yeah.
27:19
SPEAKER_02: And you know, rates have been as high as 18%.
27:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
27:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
27:22
SPEAKER_02: So, I mean, it's not a, you know, in the grand scheme of things, you can it just depends on perspective.
27:27
SPEAKER_02: But I will say this though, and I think that um, and to any developers out here too, listening to me, any investors out here listening to me, you don't make a decision on a you don't gamble, you don't, you don't make a you don't gamble.
27:44
SPEAKER_02: You don't gamble when it comes to the biggest investment decision of your life.
27:47
SPEAKER_02: You shouldn't, right?
27:48
SPEAKER_02: So if you're like, hey, you know, and a lot and a lot of realtors, I am a realtor, so I know what goes on in these, in these, in these real, you know, professional communities.
27:56
SPEAKER_02: A lot of them, the sell is hey, you know, buy the house you want now, you can refinance later.
28:01
SPEAKER_04: That's that's right.
28:02
SPEAKER_02: That's the that's the sale.
28:03
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
28:04
SPEAKER_02: They're telling you to take a bet, a pretty large one, on on the future, and on a future that you're not a professional in.
28:11
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
28:12
SPEAKER_02: You know, you're just like, hey, you're kind of just like, hey, whatever happens, happens.
28:15
SPEAKER_04: Grow into your house.
28:16
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
28:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
28:17
SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, and some people they get into these adjustable rate mortgages and they don't know what they don't know what hit them in the next five years.
28:28
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
28:28
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
28:28
SPEAKER_02: They don't know what hit them.
28:29
SPEAKER_02: They look up and they say, hey, there's no way that I'm gonna be able to afford this.
28:33
SPEAKER_02: And don't let it be, you know, if you're near some one of these, like, like I said, a Charlotte, a Raleigh, some of these quick, faster, even here, right?
28:43
SPEAKER_02: That tax portion of your of your mortgage payment, that is because a mortgage payment is your principal interest, taxes, and insurance.
28:51
SPEAKER_02: Right.
28:51
SPEAKER_02: If that tax portion, I think a lot of people don't pay a lot.
28:55
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you'd be surprised how many people, hey, you know, I need that$50 a month.
29:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
29:01
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
29:03
SPEAKER_04: You look at that.
29:04
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
29:05
SPEAKER_04: But many people who are buying their quote unquote home, don't look at that because that's a warm, fuzzy feeling.
29:14
SPEAKER_04: Oh, I've got a home now, and it doesn't matter.
29:16
SPEAKER_04: I can pay.
29:17
SPEAKER_04: So, you know, talk a little bit about that and liquidity and the affordability.
29:23
SPEAKER_04: What's going on?
29:24
SPEAKER_04: What can be done?
29:26
SPEAKER_04: What uh what are you seeing?
29:28
SPEAKER_04: What kind of answers are there?
29:29
SPEAKER_02: So I think one is education.
29:31
SPEAKER_02: I'm always gonna say that.
29:32
SPEAKER_02: I think that just as far to this side as I am as an investor, and I'm thinking I'm speaking from a more of a business mindset, I also still have to be in touch with the emotional aspect.
29:44
SPEAKER_02: When I'm building a house, I'm building it for somebody.
29:46
SPEAKER_02: Right.
29:46
SPEAKER_02: You know, so I still have to be in touch with that aspect.
29:48
SPEAKER_02: But just as just like I'm meeting in the middle there, the consumer needs to be able to meet in the middle and say, hey, this is not just a fuzzy feeling that I'm this is a the biggest investment decision of my life.
29:58
SPEAKER_02: And uh I think they need to look at those things.
30:00
SPEAKER_02: When I do an analysis, if you want to own a rental property, you need to think about how much is cash outlay you're gonna have.
30:06
SPEAKER_02: And that is inclusive of your principal, interest, taxes, and insurance, reserve for maintenance, and a property management fee.
30:13
SPEAKER_02: That's normally what it's gonna be.
30:15
SPEAKER_02: And uh, in doing that analysis, just a quick, because you should always think, hey, what if I have to rent?
30:20
SPEAKER_02: What if I'm in a position where I might have to rent?
30:23
SPEAKER_02: You know, um, it's it's a tough market right now.
30:26
SPEAKER_02: I might be underwater.
30:27
SPEAKER_02: The best option for me right now may be to rent the property, just to be able to stow off that payment.
30:33
SPEAKER_02: Okay, in the event that you do rent it, what would be your cash flow?
30:36
SPEAKER_02: Are you paying to rent it?
30:38
SPEAKER_02: You know, and and so that analysis needs to be done, consumer, investor alike, you know, and uh I think education.
30:46
SPEAKER_02: I think instead of just trying to get people into houses like a like a you know, just like a machine, I think formally allowing them to understand what they're getting into, what type of commitment they're making, what type of risks they bear.
31:00
SPEAKER_02: Um just like you said something about marriage earlier, I'm I I think it's very similar.
31:04
SPEAKER_02: Uh I think it's very similar.
31:05
SPEAKER_02: I think, you know, know what you get into, right?
31:08
SPEAKER_02: Know what you're signing up for.
31:09
SPEAKER_02: A house, you're marrying a house.
31:11
SPEAKER_02: They the realtors use that analogy a lot.
31:13
SPEAKER_02: And I'm I I want to be quite literal with it.
31:15
SPEAKER_02: You're marrying a house and you don't know what can happen.
31:18
SPEAKER_02: You know, it could, there's certain things that you can mitigate your risk around marriage with, and there's certain things you can mitigate your risk around buying a house with.
31:25
SPEAKER_02: I think being educated is the first point.
31:27
SPEAKER_02: Uh, and secondly, I think uh us as professionals, I think we have a large part to play in this.
31:33
SPEAKER_02: I think that we do need to come on these podcasts and we need to speak more.
31:36
SPEAKER_02: We need to reach our community more.
31:38
SPEAKER_02: We need to throw events on where because I mean, listen, they're making money, right?
31:43
SPEAKER_02: You know, these professionals are selling your house, they're making normally, I would say anywhere is there's a ballpark, but I'm seeing around 6% from selling the house.
31:52
SPEAKER_02: You know, what that money shouldn't just go back to the, you know, that should go back into the community to engage the community in what's really going on because it's it's a fly, like it, it's perpetual, right?
32:05
SPEAKER_02: The more they know, the more they trust you, the more they're willing to do more business with you, right?
32:09
SPEAKER_02: And um, I think there's a disconnect there between the professional side of things and the consumer side of things.
32:15
SPEAKER_02: And I think that's where we start to see the problems.
32:17
SPEAKER_02: I think uh, what was it?
32:19
SPEAKER_02: The uh I I think it was a quote from like the big short or something like that that said, like the crisis happened from people who knew things were just terribly wrong.
32:28
SPEAKER_02: Right the whole time.
32:29
SPEAKER_02: Like they knew things were terribly wrong.
32:31
SPEAKER_02: And um I think us as real estate professionals, we can sometimes lie to our like talk to ourselves in a certain way and say, hey, you know, we're doing everything we can.
32:40
SPEAKER_02: That's a and it's just not true.
32:42
SPEAKER_02: We have uh this knowledge that we've acquired over years of experience, and even as soon as you come out, say you get your license, you do have a level of knowledge that is still valuable, and that's what I want new agents to understand, new people in the field to understand.
32:55
SPEAKER_02: The even that little amount of knowledge is valuable to somebody who is potentially about to make the best decision of their life, the biggest decision of their life, because they may not know.
33:04
SPEAKER_02: And um, and so I think education and uh professional responsibility, those are the two biggest things that I think that we can do.
33:12
SPEAKER_02: Oh, and lastly, I can't forget, I mean, uh community involvement, uh uh land use regulations, I think those are gonna be huge when you start you talk about affordability.
33:23
SPEAKER_02: Um I think, yeah, the private sector, meaning, you know, and the consumers and the uh I would call us suppliers of these services.
33:34
SPEAKER_02: I think we can come together and do what we can do, but we're gonna need help.
33:37
SPEAKER_04: You know, it's interesting.
33:39
SPEAKER_04: Before you um came here, I was doing a little research, like what can the real estate industry do uh to aid the affordability crisis?
33:49
SPEAKER_04: And the this the opening statement was there's not a lot the realtors themselves can do, but it's more collective.
33:57
SPEAKER_04: It they everybody has every stakeholder in that whole process has to work together towards the common goal.
34:05
SPEAKER_04: How's Elizabeth City doing as far as the affordability?
34:08
SPEAKER_04: What what are you seeing as far as uh people wanting to buy homes?
34:11
SPEAKER_01: I want to piggyback off of that and tie that into what we were talking about.
34:15
SPEAKER_01: In Elizabeth City specifically, you know, with those, I feel like a huge thing right now is is selling though the American dream.
34:26
SPEAKER_01: If we're talking about that emotional aspect on top of like affordability in this area.
34:32
SPEAKER_04: What do you mean by that?
34:33
SPEAKER_01: I mean I know what the American dream is, but what do you mean?
34:36
SPEAKER_01: No, no, no.
34:36
SPEAKER_01: I mean like a huge thing around here right now is is retaining the younger generation and getting them to have jobs here and getting them to continue living here so that our community, which a lot of this, a lot of the population in this area is a generational community.
34:52
SPEAKER_01: I would say that is that is a huge thing around here.
34:55
SPEAKER_01: It means that there are people here who have grown up here and will continue to live here because their families grew up here.
35:03
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
35:03
SPEAKER_01: Like their parents grew up here.
35:05
SPEAKER_01: Um, we are a generational community.
35:07
SPEAKER_01: If you look, look at people around here, you know, which this is crazy because my parents aren't even from here.
35:13
SPEAKER_01: I have cousins that live here.
35:15
SPEAKER_01: I have cousins, Lauren Baker, who is the steamer's general manager.
35:20
SPEAKER_01: I found out after we did that episode, she's my cousin.
35:22
SPEAKER_01: Like that is a huge thing around here, but because of affordability, because of jobs, people are straying from that.
35:30
SPEAKER_01: And that is a huge, not necessarily a large percentage, but there are people who are moving away because of jobs and because of affordability.
35:39
SPEAKER_01: So piggybacking off of what you were saying about affordability in Elizabeth City specifically, do you I want to reference what you said during the round table?
35:49
SPEAKER_01: Um, you said a starter house, a starter home used to be more like a three-bedroom, two-bath house with a big yard.
35:56
SPEAKER_01: And now it's shifted to what might be more like a townhouse with two bedrooms, one bath.
36:02
SPEAKER_01: Do you think that's an affordability issue?
36:04
SPEAKER_01: Or do you think that's because of that, that generational shift where maybe people are thinking they might move somewhere else?
36:12
SPEAKER_01: So they don't really want to get a huge house for a larger price.
36:16
SPEAKER_01: Like, what do you what do you think that affordability around here looks like?
36:20
SPEAKER_01: And do you think that that's what's affecting the starter home issue that we were talking about?
36:26
SPEAKER_01: Not necessarily issue, but but aspect.
36:29
SPEAKER_02: I think there the truth lies in a more nuanced answer than most people would like.
36:35
SPEAKER_02: So to start, I do want to say that I I think there's an infrastructural issue, just like roads, that you need you need houses, you know, um, because they they they do so much for the community.
36:47
SPEAKER_02: And you're talking about jobs, right?
36:48
SPEAKER_02: Talking about jobs, and and I'm gonna tie this back into, you know, the American dream and the starter home, because that's what it's gonna lead back to.
36:55
SPEAKER_02: But you talk about you talk about jobs, right?
36:58
SPEAKER_02: Well, these people have nowhere to stay again.
37:00
SPEAKER_02: And um, and okay, what if we get people into these houses?
37:04
SPEAKER_02: We get them in by the, you know, by just a centimeter of their hair, and they're in that, they're in these houses and they're paying 45% of their income.
37:15
SPEAKER_02: Okay, they got in, great family, you know, great family, great job.
37:19
SPEAKER_02: They, you know, household income is is pretty, it's pretty, pretty substantial, but they they have to pay 45% of their income for the product that they want.
37:26
SPEAKER_00: Right.
37:28
SPEAKER_02: That at that point, because 30% is really where you want to, just for reference, 30% you would kind of want to be around.
37:34
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
37:35
SPEAKER_02: Um at 45%, you start to really tap into what would otherwise be disposable income that you can use to spend in local businesses and everything around here.
37:47
SPEAKER_02: And so just getting these people into a house is not enough.
37:51
SPEAKER_02: And so, in order to even fight and to try to make that a reality to where local businesses could, you know, could thrive or to or even exist, um, you you have to make a product that can halfway meet what the consumer is wanting and still be affordable.
38:14
SPEAKER_02: And so I think that the starter home changed as a so the the idea of a starter home has changed as a product of that, trying to achieve that and saying, hey, like we want to live here, we might not get exactly what we want, but we know we want to be here.
38:35
SPEAKER_02: Um great area.
38:36
SPEAKER_02: I got family here for whatever reason.
38:37
SPEAKER_02: There's a demand here.
38:38
SPEAKER_02: It's 45 minutes from Norfolk, whatever.
38:40
SPEAKER_02: Right.
38:40
SPEAKER_02: Um, and uh I think that has happened on a national scale.
38:44
SPEAKER_02: And I think even here in Elizabeth City, it's it's uh it's it's the same thing.
38:49
SPEAKER_02: Elizabeth City is very progressive in that sense.
38:52
SPEAKER_02: I think they're trying to, you know, you have three major developments going on in the city, right?
38:56
SPEAKER_02: That I think as you spoke uh on before, it's about 1,500 housing units that's coming to the market.
39:00
SPEAKER_02: I guess off a three-minute.
39:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I've got a question about that coming up.
39:08
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, yeah.
39:08
SPEAKER_02: So um, and um I think that a starter home now, again, looks like it was a three-bed, two-bath, got a pretty, you got a large amount of land, um, maybe a ranch out home, um, probably not a garage, you know, just something that was, you know, meant to be able to accumulate wealth in and then move on to the next home.
39:32
SPEAKER_06: Right.
39:33
SPEAKER_02: I think that that idea, that idea of uh of accumulating wealth in, you know, but you know, you're of accumulating wealth through a home at a large enough pace to be able to make a substantial investment into another home, I think that is, I think that whole idea is is falling apart and right in front of our face.
39:58
SPEAKER_00: Right.
39:59
SPEAKER_02: I do not believe, you know, in a normal economic environment where most people are looking to put down as least as possible that if you're putting down three and a half percent, even go up to 20%.
40:12
SPEAKER_02: I don't care, go up to 20%, and you're growing at a what a three to four percent uh appreciation rate, given you we we what's inflation?
40:21
SPEAKER_02: What two to three percent?
40:22
SPEAKER_02: You know, so so you're really only getting one percent a year, and you think that that's gonna all of a sudden you're gonna buy some substantially different product.
40:30
SPEAKER_02: And uh, I mean, given wages are supposed to go up, but the job markets it's kind of tight now too.
40:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and so you start you start looking at all these, these there's a bunch of different things that go into why this starter home is just almost like a it's just an ancient idea, you know.
40:47
SPEAKER_02: And um, and in Elizabeth City, um it's just not a thing.
40:51
SPEAKER_02: I think that we do have some solutions.
40:53
SPEAKER_02: I think that uh I think like I said, I think the uh the city council and um and local developers and everything, we realize that hey, density is a huge part of what we need.
41:08
SPEAKER_02: Um we need to be able to rehab existing housing, housing units, um, especially here in downtown.
41:15
SPEAKER_02: Um, we need to help revitalize downtown.
41:17
SPEAKER_02: We have a lot going on.
41:18
SPEAKER_02: We have a waterfront, we have uh uh some successful breweries, like, and uh some some pretty successful retail.
41:25
SPEAKER_02: We I mean we're downtown right now, right?
41:28
SPEAKER_02: And so um I think that there is some movement that is happening in the region as a whole.
41:35
SPEAKER_02: Um, but as far as affordability goes, I do think that we are headed in the right direction.
41:40
SPEAKER_02: It we could use a bit more of a push um from younger developers, um, younger uh professionals.
41:48
SPEAKER_02: Uh instead of going to Charlotte to Raleigh, like I did.
41:52
SPEAKER_02: Um maybe go get your education and come back.
41:55
SPEAKER_02: You know, come back, come back home.
41:57
SPEAKER_04: How does how do you create that desire to come back?
42:01
SPEAKER_02: I think involvement, right?
42:03
SPEAKER_02: A sense of importance.
42:04
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
42:04
SPEAKER_02: Uh a lot of people come from Elizabeth City, they have a sense of pride about it.
42:08
SPEAKER_05: Right.
42:08
SPEAKER_02: Um from where, that depends on who they are.
42:12
SPEAKER_02: Right.
42:13
SPEAKER_02: Uh, but I mean, I grew up with friends very prominent, uh, who were, you know, who parents were very prominent in the city.
42:22
SPEAKER_02: And uh I mean, even my own, my own family, uh, my grandmother was the uh first African-American principal in the entire city.
42:32
SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, absolutely.
42:34
SPEAKER_02: Um and um I think that there's such a sense of it's a deep sense of history here.
42:39
SPEAKER_02: And uh, like you said, it's a generational, it's a generational community.
42:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
42:43
SPEAKER_02: And um, I think you just really feel that, and that instills a sense of pride in you.
42:47
SPEAKER_02: Hey, the Waltons have been here for Lord how long, right?
42:53
SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, the Twifers have been here for how long?
42:57
SPEAKER_02: The Hornthals have been here for how long, right?
42:59
SPEAKER_02: These are these are great people, and I was friends with all of them growing up.
43:02
SPEAKER_04: So do outside developers do they understand that?
43:05
SPEAKER_04: Uh is that something that we can communicate better with them?
43:08
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely not.
43:09
SPEAKER_02: I mean, so by every stretch of the imagination, I want to be very clear on this.
43:12
SPEAKER_02: When you're looking at an analysis of Elizabeth City as an outside developer, if you're somebody like a private equity firm or something looking at lipstick, you're gonna pass over it, right?
43:21
SPEAKER_02: You know, the population looks to be, it appears to be stagnant.
43:24
SPEAKER_02: But then this is a riddle for somebody to solve, and I think I may have somewhat of an answer to it, but why is it that I go down Aaron House Street, I try to get an apartment at the new apartments that were built on Aaron House Street, and they're 100% leased out.
43:39
SPEAKER_00: Right.
43:39
SPEAKER_02: 100% with a wait list, an extensive wait list.
43:43
SPEAKER_02: Now, and just for reference, right?
43:45
SPEAKER_02: You know, when you do, when you model multifamily deals, um, you normally put, you know, in a great market, high demand, you're probably around 95%.
43:55
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
43:56
SPEAKER_02: Uh 95% occupancy.
43:58
SPEAKER_02: Uh okay.
44:00
SPEAKER_02: 85 to 90.
44:01
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
44:01
SPEAKER_02: Um, stabilization is 80%.
44:03
SPEAKER_02: That's when you could go change that construction loan that you have on the same they're higher?
44:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they're 100%.
44:09
SPEAKER_02: They are 100% with the wait list before the last building was even built.
44:13
SPEAKER_04: Well, then that that means we just don't have enough.
44:15
SPEAKER_02: We don't have enough housing units, and we have to be very strategic with where we are.
44:19
SPEAKER_02: But that also says another thing.
44:21
SPEAKER_02: Hey, there's a large, capable demand here.
44:24
SPEAKER_02: Um, at whatever price points that they were coming in at.
44:27
SPEAKER_04: And um if the demand's there, isn't isn't it just supply and demand?
44:31
SPEAKER_02: Wouldn't it is doesn't that so that's why I said we need help from the local municipality, the county, um, the region.
44:40
SPEAKER_02: Um, you can't as much as we would love to be able to just build willy-nilly, right?
44:48
SPEAKER_02: Uh as a developer and you know, work with the community to do that, you really need to go through a process, right?
44:55
SPEAKER_04: Growth has to take a certain pace.
44:57
SPEAKER_04: It has to because you have to make sure that the pace isn't so slow that you know it depends on.
45:01
SPEAKER_02: It has to.
45:01
SPEAKER_02: And you have people here that's that are not necessarily fond of the growth that is occurring now.
45:06
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
45:07
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
45:07
SPEAKER_02: That's a great segue.
45:08
SPEAKER_01: That is a great segue to my next question.
45:11
SPEAKER_01: Um, you're correct.
45:12
SPEAKER_01: Housing developments around here are a huge hot topic right now.
45:16
SPEAKER_01: Um, there's people who are putting up signs in their yard that say stop developing Pasquatine County.
45:21
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
45:22
SPEAKER_01: There's there's people who are going to these city council meetings and and and telling them about how they're not necessarily opposed to the growth and the developments, but that they feel as though the housing that's being put in is not necessarily affordable or it's not reflective of that generational community that we have in the area.
45:42
SPEAKER_01: Um, like you said, we have we have over 1,500 houses that are currently slated, and there are more proposals every single day to go in over the next five to maybe 10 years, um, but closer to the five mark.
45:56
SPEAKER_01: And and a lot of them are being marketed as affordable.
46:00
SPEAKER_01: But the average family around here does not does not make$90,000 a year.
46:08
SPEAKER_01: I would say the average family around here makes, and this is we're talking two two income households, make somewhere between 60 to 75.
46:18
SPEAKER_01: And that's generous.
46:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's generous.
46:21
SPEAKER_01: I would say, I would say the average is probably maybe 60.
46:27
SPEAKER_01: And if you have a little bit of a higher paying job, a better job, you're closer to the 75 mark.
46:34
SPEAKER_01: Um, a lot of the affordable housing, the the the developments that are being marketed as affordable housing are starting at high two thousands to low 300,000, not two thousands, two hundred thousand to three hundred thousand dollars.
46:50
SPEAKER_01: Like you said, 30% is where you want to be, 30% of your income for a mortgage.
46:55
SPEAKER_01: And then you said that you're seeing more like 45 right now.
46:59
SPEAKER_04: Do you think 30% is a very old yeah?
47:03
SPEAKER_04: I'm not saying it's wrong.
47:04
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, right.
47:05
SPEAKER_01: No, I think it's where you want to be, but it's not necessarily where we are right now.
47:08
SPEAKER_02: No, no, most people are not seeing it unless you're just like somebody who lives below your means.
47:13
SPEAKER_01: Oh, so do you think that that these are actually affordable houses for the area?
47:18
SPEAKER_01: There's no no slight against any of these developers.
47:21
SPEAKER_01: I want to get to to the costs that go into developing those houses next, especially with your general contracting background.
47:27
SPEAKER_02: But so I think that uh one that I wanted to touch on that when you you know infrastructure is a huge.
47:34
SPEAKER_02: I just want to leave that out there.
47:36
SPEAKER_02: We'll come back to it.
47:37
SPEAKER_01: Yes, absolutely.
47:38
SPEAKER_02: Um but um I think that you know developers have businesses, right?
47:47
SPEAKER_02: And um I also think that it is, you know, with construction being such a you talk about affordability, and I really want to make a distinction between relative affordability and then affordability, right?
48:00
SPEAKER_02: The general concept, because and I want to put it on this premise construction is more of a national like trend.
48:08
SPEAKER_02: Yes, yeah, like we start talking about materials.
48:10
SPEAKER_02: When I was asking you earlier, hey, what's the cost of a two by four, right?
48:12
SPEAKER_02: Right.
48:12
SPEAKER_02: It might vary a little bit region to region, but it's not that significant.
48:16
SPEAKER_02: But wages do.
48:17
SPEAKER_02: Wages are very local.
48:19
SPEAKER_02: Um, you could go, I know at least here, you know, if you go the closer you get to Norfolk, you might get some high earners, right?
48:26
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so uh But you know, average average wage around here, the general yeah, no, and we still have the federal state minimum wage,$725 an hour.
48:37
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
48:38
SPEAKER_02: And so when you start talking about affordable that relative affordability piece, um, affordable to who?
48:45
SPEAKER_02: And I think you said that earlier.
48:48
SPEAKER_02: Affordable to who?
48:49
SPEAKER_02: Because we'd have different pockets of demand who still need their relatively affordable housing for them.
48:55
SPEAKER_02: So if we're just talking about the pocket of demand that sits around 60,000, you know what I mean?
48:59
SPEAKER_02: No, a$300,000 house, those houses are not built for them.
49:02
SPEAKER_01: So you think they're not affordable to the average Elizabeth City resident as it stands?
49:07
SPEAKER_01: Potentially.
49:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you could potentially say that as it stands.
49:10
SPEAKER_01: And I mean, you know, like we said, it's as it stands, it's relative to the current people that live in Elizabeth City.
49:16
SPEAKER_01: It's not talking about the growth that people are hoping to bring in, like, you know, residents from other areas.
49:21
SPEAKER_01: Like you said, there's a lot of people coming from California from up north.
49:25
SPEAKER_02: And I think developers build to demand, but they don't specify the demand in which they build to.
49:29
SPEAKER_02: Right.
49:30
SPEAKER_02: Because how much would that cost, right?
49:32
SPEAKER_02: You know, to try to and um and developers they have overhead, right?
49:37
SPEAKER_02: We have people to pay.
49:38
SPEAKER_02: And um, if you're a bigger developer, you know, you if if your guys aren't working, you're just you know putting out cash and everything.
49:45
SPEAKER_02: So it sometimes it's unfeasible to build at a certain price point.
49:48
SPEAKER_02: That's where and that's where some local, you know, us local people could could step in.
49:52
SPEAKER_02: And I think uh an answer to, you know, if you're sitting around 60,000, you know, maybe a new five, you know, a four-bedroom home is probably not what you're gonna because I know that's the idea, right?
50:05
SPEAKER_02: You know, the pitch to city council to get some of these developments approved or what was or getting getting it rezoned was hey, we need, we need, we need to re and we need more density.
50:17
SPEAKER_02: Hey, if you if you want us to build these four-bed, two baths, you know what I mean, or four-bed, three-bath products, you know, for these people at around a$300,000 price point, we need more, and which is a valid argument.
50:32
SPEAKER_02: You know, you're talking about a product that is is is it's expensive to build.
50:36
SPEAKER_02: You know, you're talking about 2,000 to 3,000 square feet.
50:39
SPEAKER_02: Um, and uh, you know, they're they're not making a killing, trust me, they're not making a killing on these.
50:45
SPEAKER_02: Um, and some of them they might even lose some money on.
50:49
SPEAKER_02: And so uh I think that developers build to demand, um, but they don't specify, they do, they they'll, you know, they'll say, hey, we know that there is a demand here for this type of product, and this fits our feasibility.
51:02
SPEAKER_02: Um, but I think to answer your question as far as uh who so who's building for the for the$60,000 earners, um, well, I think that's where us as a community we have to come together and the smaller local professionals, developers, builders, contractors, all of us, we need to come together and hey, look at what we already have.
51:23
SPEAKER_02: We have houses all around this downtown area that are very valuable that we could use.
51:29
SPEAKER_02: We could do add-ons on, we could do uh ADUs, we could uh just create more places for people to stay, you know, in the immediate area, and that's a lot cheaper.
51:41
SPEAKER_02: You can get in those the because the basis in a lot of these are cheaper than a basis of a new building.
51:46
SPEAKER_04: There's a reason that's not happening, and what's the reason?
51:49
SPEAKER_02: Um it's it takes a very sp uh specialized expertise to be able to work with some of these older older properties, and um it can be expensive, and there is a level of greed that can come with that as well.
52:02
SPEAKER_04: I I've lived in in the San Francisco Bay Area and I've lived in New York City, and and the common knowledge there is that those areas are priced for visitors, yeah.
52:11
SPEAKER_04: They're not priced for people to live there.
52:14
SPEAKER_04: Similarly, the homes that are coming in here are not being built for the people that are lit.
52:20
SPEAKER_04: Again, I it growth is growth.
52:23
SPEAKER_04: So we want to pull as many people in, but there's a thought that if we bring in the the families that need the four bedrooms and the two and three car garage, and that's gonna help grow other businesses.
52:35
SPEAKER_04: I I get that.
52:36
SPEAKER_04: Right.
52:36
SPEAKER_04: But you're talking about how do we house the people that are here, not here.
52:41
SPEAKER_02: That's the problem.
52:42
SPEAKER_02: And that's the problem everywhere, right?
52:43
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
52:43
SPEAKER_02: You got you have people being displaced, and um and it's a it's a huge thing, and uh and it and and it's so many mechanisms that you just gotta be careful of with a you know when you're uh and um when you're a the average income earner around here, um, and you have people coming from Norfolk, they're average in Norfolk, but that that's not that's not average here, right?
53:05
SPEAKER_02: It's it's it's above average.
53:06
SPEAKER_04: We see with manufacturer the the uh like a machinist job advertised here is going to be it might be 25% less than the wages in Norfolk.
53:20
SPEAKER_04: Wow.
53:20
SPEAKER_04: And that's only like 40 miles, you know, 45, 50 miles away.
53:23
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
53:24
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
53:25
SPEAKER_02: And I think that just speaks to it's a difficult decision for developers, right?
53:31
SPEAKER_02: And developers can't even write, so do we not build anything?
53:36
SPEAKER_02: Um, what have what does that look like?
53:38
SPEAKER_04: But it's it's a collective, right?
53:40
SPEAKER_04: It's it's it's so we've got so the group has to, whomever the stakeholders are, have to work on them together, right?
53:46
SPEAKER_02: They have to come together.
53:48
SPEAKER_02: And um, I think that we're gonna need some, um, I mean, there's all types of programming.
53:53
SPEAKER_02: So just a little bit more about my background, because I didn't say this.
53:55
SPEAKER_02: So after I worked at Deloitte for a little bit, I went to go work for an affordable housing syndicate, um, or tax credit syndication company.
54:02
SPEAKER_02: It's called a community affordable housing equity corporation.
54:05
SPEAKER_02: And basically what they do is uh they built the business around the fact that uh there are certain entities and institutions that have to contribute, uh especially banks, they have to contribute uh amount of their deposits or notably around 10% back into the community.
54:24
SPEAKER_02: And they do that through tax credits.
54:30
SPEAKER_02: And so a developer might go and go to the affordable housing count, uh, the the local affordable housing uh or housing commission, and they'll say, Hey, I got this idea.
54:42
SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm pitching it and I'm competing, and this developer's competing with other developers to be able to get these tax credits allocated to that project.
54:49
SPEAKER_02: Right now, these tax credits aren't uh you can't do anything with them once you get them, right?
54:54
SPEAKER_02: They're tax credits, right?
54:55
SPEAKER_02: They're not dollars.
54:56
SPEAKER_02: And so in order to make those tax credits liquid, what the syndication company does is we review the model, we review the deal and everything, and we basically broker it between the banks who have money and the developer who doesn't have money, but they have these tax credits.
55:11
SPEAKER_02: And then these banks buy these tax credits for 80 cents on the dollar, and that provides some liquidity to be able to do these affordable housing developments.
55:20
SPEAKER_06: Right.
55:21
SPEAKER_02: Um, I think that that type of that type of expertise isn't isn't really local, right?
55:29
SPEAKER_02: Um, it's not something that uh because there's different levels of expertise within that domain.
55:34
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
55:34
SPEAKER_02: Um, and you talk about the hospital out there on um on Hughes Boulevard.
55:40
SPEAKER_01: Halsted.
55:41
SPEAKER_02: Uh is it Hughes?
55:42
SPEAKER_02: Halstead.
55:43
SPEAKER_01: Halstead Boulevard Excellency.
55:44
SPEAKER_02: No, the old hospital.
55:45
SPEAKER_02: The old hospital.
55:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the old hospital.
55:48
SPEAKER_02: My bad.
55:48
SPEAKER_01: I thought we were gonna talk because that's where a lot of the developments are.
55:51
SPEAKER_01: So that's what I thought we were developing.
55:52
SPEAKER_02: Okay, but we can't forget about over there though, because there's a lot of housing units over there.
55:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's where and that's where the majority of the new housing developments are going in.
55:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
55:59
SPEAKER_01: But you're talking about.
56:00
SPEAKER_01: And that's the way to Virginia, too.
56:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
56:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
56:02
SPEAKER_01: The old the old building, because it's for sale.
56:04
SPEAKER_02: The county's correctly trying to sell it.
56:06
SPEAKER_02: And and what you need to do with something like that, there's uh there's so many different programs that we just are not being presented, or just there's nobody strong on, you know, leading the way, right?
56:17
SPEAKER_02: Um, like uh, I know uh new emerging tax credits was something that was something that uh that was relatively new when I was at K Heck.
56:26
SPEAKER_02: And um, and that is something that you can use those tax credits again for something to build like a community center or or something of the like, where those dollars normally necessarily wouldn't come from a a private developer or anything like that.
56:39
SPEAKER_02: Because it's not profitable.
56:41
SPEAKER_02: Um, it's not as profitable if it is profitable.
56:44
SPEAKER_02: And um, and so I think I think that's where we're we're at with things like hey, developers have a business, they do have a job, but uh we're gonna need some help too if if like you said all the stakeholders need to come together to the same table and and and address that issue.
57:02
SPEAKER_04: It's a worthy, it's a worthy topic and a worthy cause.
57:05
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
57:06
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
57:07
SPEAKER_01: So I want to kind of go back to what we were talking about with we very briefly touched about it.
57:13
SPEAKER_01: Infrastructure, but also because you are a licensed contractor, what goes into those houses, because especially with infrastructure that needs growth in this area, you could say that a lot of these developers, whether people like them or not, are taking a gamble on putting houses here in an area that needs infrastructure development and growth, which the city is working on that.
57:38
SPEAKER_01: They just got a$19 million bond to to expand like water and sewer lines, to expand the electric substations around here.
57:49
SPEAKER_01: But one of the, and obviously just due to my job, I'm very in touch with the community.
57:54
SPEAKER_01: I I see I see it at these meetings, I hear it from people online, on social media, everywhere.
58:02
SPEAKER_01: And one of the major comp uh complaints that I'm seeing from people who currently live in the community is that the these developments, not only are they not affordable for people in the area, but that they are what are considered stick builds or modular homes, and that the materials that they're selling them for, people are complaining about the prices because of that.
58:25
SPEAKER_01: They're selling them for$200,000 more than, you know, vinyl siding homes were 30 years ago, which is understandable.
58:34
SPEAKER_01: You know, inflation, we've talked about inflation, there's an influx in material costs.
58:39
SPEAKER_01: Um, material costs are not necessarily relative to this area, especially with shrinking smaller businesses, lumber companies, things like that, you have to ship it from other places.
58:51
SPEAKER_01: But if we're having an open and honest conversation, do you think the obviously, like you said, there are overhead costs, you have to pay labor, you have to, you have to be able to try and make a profit off of this.
59:03
SPEAKER_01: Do you think that these houses, not any house in particular, not any development in particular, do you think that they are affordable in terms of the costs that are going into them?
59:14
SPEAKER_01: If we're putting the relative average salary in Elizabeth City in northeastern North Carolina aside, do you think these houses are affordable based off of the costs that are going into building them?
59:29
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
59:30
SPEAKER_02: And I'm gonna say these big builders, right?
59:35
SPEAKER_02: And this is a point to their overhead as well, they're not again, they're not making the margins that a small builder would require.
59:43
SPEAKER_02: Right.
59:44
SPEAKER_02: You see what I'm saying?
59:45
SPEAKER_02: They're just kind of trying to keep the lights on in a lot of their developments.
59:47
SPEAKER_02: Believe it or not.
59:48
SPEAKER_02: Um, a lot of things, a lot of people think that these developers are always making a kill in, and sometimes they are.
59:54
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes they get a great steal on the land.
59:57
SPEAKER_02: They can uh the labor is just a lot cheaper in a submarket.
1:00:01
SPEAKER_02: Um, they're perfect, they're efficient, you know.
1:00:04
SPEAKER_02: Um, they just have a good team, you know, that that can ultimately, and they're meeting all their timelines, communications on point, they got the right people in the right place.
1:00:12
SPEAKER_02: Uh there's so many variables that could drive cost, but ultimately, sometimes they knock it out the park and they make a killing.
1:00:19
SPEAKER_02: And um, but a lot of times they don't.
1:00:21
SPEAKER_02: And so when it comes to, and I do want to talk about the suitability of the homes themselves, um, I it's it's twofold that yes, I think it's affordable with what it is, but do I think what it is is intrinsically worth it?
1:00:36
SPEAKER_02: No, I do not.
1:00:38
SPEAKER_02: I do not think that the houses that are being built today are worth what they're being sold for.
1:00:42
SPEAKER_02: Now, based on what they cost the developer to build, are they affordable?
1:00:48
SPEAKER_02: That's a different question.
1:00:49
SPEAKER_02: And I would say yes, they are affordable in that aspect.
1:00:52
SPEAKER_02: Um, because developers spread, you know, this there's a reason that a lot of smaller developers they don't build the land, they don't they don't build the buildings or they don't go, they don't want to hold throughout that process.
1:01:05
SPEAKER_02: Uh most developers actually, a developer will actually sell to a builder, right?
1:01:10
SPEAKER_02: So we'll we'll get the land, we'll subdivide it, we'll get draw everything out, we'll do the infrastructure piece of it, and um, and then we'll we'll sell it to a builder, right?
1:01:22
SPEAKER_02: And then a builder will come and build because they are the ones that they they they can make it happen right at those margins.
1:01:28
SPEAKER_02: And um, and and I think uh when you talk about major plant unit, like plant developments like that, uh I do think that they're doing what they can.
1:01:40
SPEAKER_02: Do I think that they're building to the best of their ability?
1:01:44
SPEAKER_02: Maybe and do it, and I don't really think too highly of it.
1:01:49
SPEAKER_02: Um I'm always a fan of, hey, getting a local builder, you might pay a few bucks more, but get your local builder to come watch this, you know, two or three unit subdivision.
1:01:58
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
1:01:59
SPEAKER_02: Two or three houses, four houses, you know, small subdivisions.
1:02:02
SPEAKER_02: I'm always a fan of that because you know, it the tendency is that the local builder that has a name that has, you know, a face around someone to be held accountable, they're gonna they're gonna build to a certain standard.
1:02:13
SPEAKER_02: Yes, absolutely.
1:02:14
SPEAKER_02: And uh, so I think that quality aspect of the the homes that are going up, and that goes back into affordability because how much is it gonna cost me, right?
1:02:24
SPEAKER_02: Over time, you buy just go buy buy a cheap, uh, a cheap pair of shoes, right?
1:02:27
SPEAKER_02: You feel good in the moment, I'm getting the deal, right?
1:02:30
SPEAKER_02: But then those shoes don't last more than you know a year.
1:02:34
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
1:02:35
SPEAKER_02: So uh, you know, I remember I used to go get these uh these these slides.
1:02:40
SPEAKER_02: Um, when I was playing football, I used to, there were these like really cheap slides that I was like, oh man, I'm getting a deal.
1:02:46
SPEAKER_02: They look great too.
1:02:47
SPEAKER_02: Everybody else is going to buy these$100 slides.
1:02:50
SPEAKER_02: Um I'm buying these$30 slides that that are are doing the job, but they would start, I call them talking, talking to me.
1:02:58
SPEAKER_02: And they would start opening up at the scenes.
1:03:01
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
1:03:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:03:02
SPEAKER_02: As I, you know, and everybody else is still saying intact.
1:03:05
SPEAKER_02: And I think what we're gonna see is a lot of opening up of the seams on these houses.
1:03:09
SPEAKER_02: Um, because you know, it's just the material, like you said, the materials, what are you putting in them?
1:03:16
SPEAKER_02: And uh that's another that's that's that's tied into affordability that we can't see right now.
1:03:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but um down the road, I think that'll be an issue for us.
1:03:25
SPEAKER_01: So, and this is my last question, David may have more, I'm not sure, but obviously you cannot predict the future.
1:03:32
SPEAKER_01: I'm not asking you to predict whether or not there's gonna be a housing market crash or anything like that.
1:03:36
SPEAKER_01: But do you feel like there is an opportunity for any of these prices to lower in the future?
1:03:43
SPEAKER_01: Do you do you think we're we will be where we are for a while?
1:03:47
SPEAKER_01: And on top of that, do you think that's a negative or a positive thing if if costs on on housing are to drop?
1:03:58
SPEAKER_02: What is it saying?
1:04:03
SPEAKER_02: Well, I'll say this it's uh there's gonna be an adjustment, right?
1:04:09
SPEAKER_02: It has to be.
1:04:10
SPEAKER_01: Everything changes, yeah.
1:04:11
SPEAKER_01: Nothing stays.
1:04:12
SPEAKER_02: There has to be an adjustment um based on how things are.
1:04:16
SPEAKER_02: Now, when that will come, how it will come, I can't tell you, but there will be an adjustment.
1:04:22
SPEAKER_02: And uh, is that a bad thing?
1:04:25
SPEAKER_02: Um, not necessarily, but is it inherently a good one?
1:04:28
SPEAKER_02: Not necessarily, it's just a way of life, right?
1:04:30
SPEAKER_02: It's just a way of life.
1:04:32
SPEAKER_02: Um, things ebb and flow.
1:04:34
SPEAKER_02: And um, this is just another one of them, and we're gonna have some pain.
1:04:37
SPEAKER_02: Uh good get into, you know, that adjustment is gonna be painful.
1:04:41
SPEAKER_02: It won't be the prettiest.
1:04:43
SPEAKER_02: Um, some people are gonna get hurt.
1:04:45
SPEAKER_02: Um, the same people that you we are trying to help or we are thinking about helping in that situation, um, they're gonna also be hurt um because jobs are gonna get hurt.
1:04:54
SPEAKER_02: When you start talking about real estate, right?
1:04:56
SPEAKER_02: Right, yeah.
1:04:56
SPEAKER_02: You know, your local professional real estate professionals that, you know, bolster some of these community events, whatever, they're not gonna be able to do it anymore.
1:05:02
SPEAKER_02: Um, not just realtors, but you know, people who buy those houses as well.
1:05:06
SPEAKER_02: People who build these houses, right?
1:05:08
SPEAKER_02: How big is construction out here?
1:05:09
SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, you're gonna lose a lot of jobs.
1:05:12
SPEAKER_02: You know, a lot of businesses are gonna not do well, you know.
1:05:15
SPEAKER_02: Local businesses that people eat at all the time after work, they're not gonna, they're gonna do a lot worse.
1:05:20
SPEAKER_02: So um basically, yeah, I mean, like I think I was talking about earlier, uh, how it's all intertwined, right?
1:05:28
SPEAKER_02: You talk we're talking about infrastructure as a whole here, you know, housing is a part of the infrastructure.
1:05:33
SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, if housing prices go down, that affects the infrastructure.
1:05:40
SPEAKER_02: Um, and so if you know people are working somewhere where where um uh uh a retail shop per se, where a lot of construction workers go and they shop for clothes, or uh or maybe some of these uh restaurants where they go eat at, well, they eat.
1:06:00
SPEAKER_02: With the money that they make from their construction job.
1:06:02
SPEAKER_02: But if their construction job is not in demand because of what is going on in the local economy, then you can kind of see how that So it's a mixed bag for sure.
1:06:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's a mixed bag.
1:06:12
SPEAKER_02: You don't know what you're getting, you know, and it you kind of don't know until you get there.
1:06:16
SPEAKER_02: Uh some people try to predict with all these different analytics, um, which is you know time consuming.
1:06:21
SPEAKER_02: Um, but I'll say you don't know until you get there.
1:06:24
SPEAKER_02: And um and how this local community will respond is we don't know.
1:06:29
SPEAKER_02: We have so many, so many variables in place that we couldn't possibly say how how we couldn't tell you how we're gonna respond.
1:06:36
SPEAKER_02: But I'll tell you one thing that we are resilient.
1:06:39
SPEAKER_02: We've been here since what seven to 1700s or something like that.
1:06:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
1:06:43
SPEAKER_02: So I mean, we're we're here to stay.
1:06:45
SPEAKER_02: Uh it's just how how's that gonna look for the future?
1:06:48
SPEAKER_02: Um, I think we have consistently in this area.
1:06:52
SPEAKER_02: I think Don Senator uh Congressman Don Davis, he spoke to this point.
1:06:57
SPEAKER_02: In this area, we've consistently been ranked tier one, which is the worst it could get, pretty much.
1:07:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, northeastern North Carolina's pretty much historically been it.
1:07:06
SPEAKER_02: And uh I think there's nothing, you know, you gotta come up from the bottom, right?
1:07:11
SPEAKER_01: Only only way to go is up.
1:07:13
SPEAKER_02: The only way to go is up, right?
1:07:14
SPEAKER_02: So uh that's kind of I'm I'm pretty optimistic about this particular area.
1:07:18
SPEAKER_02: And uh good.
1:07:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:07:20
SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you.
1:07:22
SPEAKER_04: No, I this is very informational.
1:07:25
SPEAKER_04: I appreciate this.
1:07:25
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
1:07:26
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for coming on.
1:07:28
SPEAKER_04: There's gotta be some things that that can be done.
1:07:29
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, the affordability, though.
1:07:31
SPEAKER_01: I think you've really emphasized community, community coming together.
1:07:34
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
1:07:35
SPEAKER_02: I think that the main thing is, hey, we need to be able to take advantage of the existing housing stock and the dilapidated housing around here.
1:07:44
SPEAKER_02: We need to have an efficient way of managing that.
1:07:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
1:07:47
SPEAKER_02: And and just dealing with, you know, dealing with what we already got, right?
1:07:50
SPEAKER_02: Why, why am I gonna go to the store to buy a t-shirt when I have 15 in my in my house?
1:07:56
SPEAKER_02: You know, and so it's kind of that thing.
1:07:57
SPEAKER_02: We're building new houses, but the only people that can afford these, there's a demand here, but the only people that can afford them are the people that are coming from out of town.
1:08:04
SPEAKER_02: What about the people here?
1:08:06
SPEAKER_02: And uh that's no shot to any developers because they're doing their job.
1:08:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but at the same time, um, we do, I think that's a shot to us local entrepreneurs.
1:08:16
SPEAKER_02: I think we need to step up.
1:08:17
SPEAKER_02: I think we need to say, hey, I'm not afraid to tackle this housing initiative right here.
1:08:21
SPEAKER_02: I'm not afraid to go rally to get some funding to do some rehabs here in the city.
1:08:26
SPEAKER_02: Um, because I think that's what's needed.
1:08:28
SPEAKER_02: I think we need to take advantage of our existing uh local stuff.
1:08:31
SPEAKER_02: And and honestly, it might even be even better back to the quality of the materials that we were talking about.
1:08:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:08:36
SPEAKER_02: Some of this wood and some of these older are really good, you know.
1:08:40
SPEAKER_01: And there's a reason they're 125 years old and they're still standing.
1:08:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's right.
1:08:45
SPEAKER_02: So I think is uh I think is that's an imperative and missing middle housing.
1:08:49
SPEAKER_02: I think we need to continue.
1:08:50
SPEAKER_02: That's a buzz term in the real estate industry.
1:08:52
SPEAKER_02: You you probably have heard it multiple times before.
1:08:57
SPEAKER_02: Um, but uh missing middle housing is is basically you know your duplexes or your duets.
1:09:04
SPEAKER_02: A duet is like a two-town homes, right?
1:09:06
SPEAKER_02: So you have your town homes and then you have like a two-town homes, three townhomes put together.
1:09:11
SPEAKER_02: Um, if you're gonna do it, that if you're gonna do that model, just that multi-family style housing.
1:09:17
SPEAKER_02: It doesn't have to be large multi-family, because that's on the other end of the spectrum, right?
1:09:21
SPEAKER_02: That missing middle.
1:09:22
SPEAKER_02: So from single family to multifamily, what's in the middle?
1:09:25
SPEAKER_02: And so we need more of that type of housing.
1:09:27
SPEAKER_02: Um, we're gonna have to get comfortable with density.
1:09:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
1:09:31
SPEAKER_02: The American dream changes, the vision of it changes.
1:09:34
SPEAKER_02: What does it look like now?
1:09:35
SPEAKER_02: I think we're still searching for it, but um, I think it as we progress, it'll be it'll be defined a little bit clearer for us.
1:09:43
SPEAKER_01: You have been so insightful.
1:09:45
SPEAKER_01: I really, really appreciate you coming on.
1:09:47
SPEAKER_01: Um, hopefully this, you know, gives people a lot of information and uh maybe puts some minds at ease.
1:09:54
SPEAKER_01: I know this is this has been one of the largest topics that I have seen everybody talking about around here um in northeastern North Carolina.
1:10:01
SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much for coming and providing your perspective.
1:10:03
SPEAKER_01: You're probably one of the most qualified people we could ever get for this.
1:10:07
SPEAKER_01: You have so many, so many credentials.
1:10:10
SPEAKER_01: I appreciate that.
1:10:11
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me.
1:10:12
SPEAKER_01: Yes, thank you.
1:10:12
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
1:10:13
SPEAKER_01: And thank you so much to all of our listeners.
1:10:15
SPEAKER_01: We really appreciate all of your support.
1:10:18
SPEAKER_01: Please be sure to stay tuned for another episode coming soon.
1:10:21
SPEAKER_01: We have just begun our superhero educator series.
1:10:25
SPEAKER_01: Our first episode with ECPPS is out.
1:10:28
SPEAKER_01: There will be more of that coming soon.
1:10:30
SPEAKER_01: And we're also getting ready to start a candidate series where you guys are able to hear perspectives from both sides of the aisle for candidates coming up for election on November 3rd.
1:10:41
SPEAKER_01: So stay tuned for that as well.
1:10:42
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much again, and we will see you again soon.