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Thomas Nagy and Paul Meenan look at how Electricians learn · The Electrical Show

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The Electrical Show with Thomas Najie sponsored by Bosch Professional, Powerful power Tools,
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measuring tools and experts Accessories. Welcome to The Electrical Show with Bosch Professional here
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on Fix Radio on Thomas Najie with Paul Meanan on the show today, we
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are going to be talking about how how we learn as electricians and what are
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the different ways that we can learn and what is the best approach. Ultimately,
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is a wealth of a wealth of knowledge out there. There's a whole
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wealth of different ways of getting it. So which is the best way?
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That is what the That's the question we're going to be asking. We're gonna
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be chewing the cud over today, isn't that right? Paul? Indeed you
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do so, I don't know, you don't know any talk. I don't
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know. You an effort to bring you in because because you say you know,
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I just I just feel that the audience should hear your voice in the
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first link Thomas, Yes, that's better. Later we are going to be
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chatting well, actually Paul is going to be chatting to electrical trainer Adrian Davy,
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and we've also got the ECA's their technical manager Darren Cranis, to get
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their thoughts on this topic. Now, music wise, this afternoon, we've
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got Jack, our new producer. Here is Mark Still He's still in Corfu,
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Creep, Grease, Bombay. Where is he? Columbia, Columbia,
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He's he whoever he is, He's around the world, and I hope he's
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well, he's probably listening to the show. I'm sure very warm. Now
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we always start the show with Queen here, Paul doesn't July. You're not
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a little fan of Queen, are you? I love Queen. Everything from
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the Highlander and Flash soundtracks is gold. All right. We always start with
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Queen on the Electrical Show and that's never going to change. So here's a
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classic that needs no introduction from the quite frankly the best band in the world,
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The Electrical Show on Fixed Radio. This is the Electrical Show with Bosh
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Professional Here on Fix Radio. I am Thomas Naji with Paul Meanan and on
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today's show we are talking about how electricians learns. If you've just din,
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we are just about to get our train rolling out the station and we're now
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joined by electrical trainer Adrian Davy. Adrian, thank you, thank you firstly
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for taking a time out of your schedule. To come onto the show.
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We do appreciate it. Thank you. And first question we want to ask
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bring us listener up to speed. Why was it you began training electricians?
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What was the story behind that. I've been in the industry since about two
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thousand and one. That's when I started to kind of going to college and
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working with an electricial electrician on site and kind of qualified around two thousand and
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four two thousand and five, and since then I went out on my own,
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you know, started up my own business, and then witnessed to decline
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the trade over a period of time, and it got to the point where
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I was fed up with losing out to quote so unrealistic and seeing the standard
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around me was pretty poor. I thought I'd rather be part of the solution
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rather than just complaining about it. So at the time I had an apprentice
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with the training provider I'm working with. I went in, I spoke to
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his trainer. He said they were always looking out for new people because there
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is a shortage of trainers in the electrical industry. It's not a very deep
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pool. And that was it. It was just a chance conversation, really,
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and then it all just sort of fell into place. From there,
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I see. I mean I'm going slightly off pisted here, But that decline
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that you just met, it's just interesting that you brought that up. I
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mean, that's a real thing in your eyes. Yeah, that's I mean,
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I'm not I don't don't take that wrong where I'm being genuinely. I
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mean, that's a you see, because I was the first thing that you
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came out of the gate with this decline. But it's a real thing for
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you. Yeah, well massively. I mean when I started it, I
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mean, and it's easy to look back in retrospect, isn't it through growth
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tinsy goggles and all that kind of stuff. So when I was working with
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somebody, I mean, we were trained to put it in professionally and to
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a high standard. And then when you came across the odd job that wasn't
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you could see it for what it was. It was either a d I
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wire or it was have a go hero type thing. And slowly over time
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that DIY standard has become the norm because people on price, you know,
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and they're slashing it in to get hit your hit targets and what have you.
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I mean, I was speaking to an apprentice the other day and he
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was telling me that for a new build house, it's two hundred and fifty
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pound for the first six, one hundred and fifty pounds for second six,
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and one hundred and fifty pounds for the fuse. Bold. Well, there's
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no way I could complete compete with that, you know. I mean I
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was charging three thousand, four thousand pounds for a full rewire and doing it
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over three weeks. You know, maybe a new build if it was empty,
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might be two weeks, but you know, still to do it to
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the same standard took time. So I couldn't compete with that. So yeah,
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I chose to. I chose to do something about it, and that
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was that was what came forward. Really, how about the different ways that
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electricians can learn more about their trade? What's on offer now? In your
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opinion? What's the best way forward? Oh? You know what, there's
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so many ways to learn this trade. It's a difficult one because the route
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is becoming an electrician is not an easy one. Okay, there's no hard
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and fast route. There's the apprenticeship, which everybody knows about. You know,
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you start off minimum wage, you work your way through over four years,
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you get qualified at the end of it, and that's obviously the easiest
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route. But then next to that, there's also the diploma route, which
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is through college, and that's the knowledge based units. So when you're doing
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apprenticeship you do four days a week on the job, that's the site based
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units. You do one day week at college which is your knowledge based units.
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So a diploma is just the knowledge based college units. And then what's
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supposed to happen as you then qualify and then obviously build up your experience on
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site after that. But the trub with nothing really links up a lot of
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these calls is all slightly different as well. So I mean, the best
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thing that I can suggest for anyone wanting to get into the industry is just
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to have a look online because the internet is a wealth of knowledge. There
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were some really good people to follow online. Start watching them, see who
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they link up with and who they're tagging in, and recommending there's some great
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content on YouTube to watch. I mean, I remember watching a video of
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you, Tom, and you were saying that obviously when you started out on
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YouTube, there wasn't a lot out there for electrician. I mean that is
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true, Yeah, I mean that was back in two thousand and eight when
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I started, when I started working myself. And it is true, like
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in the amount of time. I mean here we are now sitting and doing
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radio, but I mean back then, there just wasn't There was no so
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there just wasn't social media. It just didn't exist. And he's delivered what
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you had BT boxes, that was how you watched TV. We did it
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to a BT box. You know, we just didn't have access to any
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of this sort of stuff. So yeah, it isn't I mean, you've
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got a wealth of knowledge, but it's almost like it's baffling. Now.
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Yeah, yeah, there's there's so much out there. But then again,
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people have to be careful about where they get their knowledge from and also how
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they absorb it because you know, I was talking to an apprentice today who
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was telling me that when we were trying to watch a fifteen minute video in
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lesson and they were struggling to watch a fifteen minute video and I queried them
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afterwards, and they were saying, it's TikTok. You know, we're just
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used to get in three minute, two minute videos and it's not Yeah,
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if it's not fast and intense, we can't focus. And this is a
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sixteen year old apprentice saying that, you know, and then a whole class
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were joining it and saying about how dangerous it is. You know, so
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you have to be careful how you absorb that information as well. How important
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is it for electricians to continue learning because there's a massive amount of people out
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there that they get their qualification and that's it. They just stay, they
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stay at that level. But surely there's going to be a lot of sparks
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who are going to get left behind if they keep doing that. You what,
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Tom, I'll be honest with God, I was one of those people.
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I mean, I got all my certificates, I thought, this is
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it, I'm done, finished, never got to go back to college again,
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and I stagnated for the next ten years. And your brain is like
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any muscle. If you don't use it, you slowly just remember the bit
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that you use every day. So you've become weaker mentally. So when I
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actually went into training, I felt really practical heavy and not so theory based,
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and I felt really unbalanced. So I'm really glad that I went back
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into teaching. And now I'm you know, I've got to be honest.
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At forty four years old, I finally found the love of teaching and being
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at school and learning and it's taken that long. Fantastic Thank you, Adrian.
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We're going to chat more about learning and development with Darren Cranis, technical
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manager at ECA. Next The Electrical Show with Thomas Nagie on fixed radio the
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Builders Station. You're listening to The Electrical Show and Thomas Najie with Paul Mina
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now on. At today's show, we're talking about how electricians learn and how
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we are and we're joined now actually as this happens by Darren Kranity, the
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technical manager at the ECA. Darren, thank you taking taking the time to
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join us. I know you're a busy man, so thank you first and
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foremost. Now bring the listener up to speed. Here. What sort of
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guidance and training do the THECA offer the electrical industry. The SAY offers five
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key areas of supports technical obviously very strong point, but also other areas legal,
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employee relations, health and safety and education skills. And throughout those five
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areas we produce application guides, guides, notes, bulletins, presentation, seminars,
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webinars you know, include an official CPD accreditation as well, and there's
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a helpline there for our members, so quite a wide go right across the
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industry. I can't vault them. I can't. I'll be honest with you.
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I've researched all of the industry and I think the stuff is really good.
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If I could say one thing, I'd love more of it, maybe
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to be public. I know a lot of the stuff you guys do for
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your membership is fantastic. It'd be really good to maybe put some of that
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on YouTube or something that would be kind of cool as an afterthought. But
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now I think what the guys do in THEA is top notch for their members.
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It's something we do work on and if you look at the YouTube channel
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every now and again, and also working with our friends at Boltoma, and
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we do occasionally do give out a bit more information which I think is absolutely
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beneficial to the whole industry. They do. Yeah, you're right, Voltman
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do these live things and the guys are part of that. I forgot about
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that. Apologies, Yes they do. If you go onto Voltemam's website,
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they do all sorts of stuff. First, Voltiman were the very first people
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I saw in the industry doing CPD for me. Yeah, they've been going
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for decades probably, I don't know, good long time, very long time.
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All right, how are the dil What are sort of the different ways
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that electricians can I guess begin and continue to learn, if that makes any
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sense. What is the best? What are the different ways that electrician can
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do? That A big believer in electrician class. So it all begins with
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the level three apprenticeship. And as we know, you know, twenty percent
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of that is sort of spent in college. Eighty percent of that is with
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the employer, So the employer really has a huge, big role to play
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electrician's life. But after, you know, after they've qualified, they've they've
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got their level three and they've been through their AM two AM two sum and
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completed all their log books or evidence based at work. There are plenty of
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level three and level four courses out there, you know, one regulations,
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renewables, that's such a big area, inspection, tests and design. Most
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of them tend to be classroom based, some of them moved to sort of
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online. I mean, there are lots of resources there from competent person schemes
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right through the trade associations who've just spoken about Ultimore Academy. They are one
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of many offering some great CPD in courses to electricians out there. I think
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it's fair to say that I struggle to keep up. So I don't know
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about you, Darren, and you're a technical manager and the ESA it's you
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just you can you can drown in the amount of information and knowledge that's out
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there that you would think you would do that bit at CPD and go,
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oh, that's really important. People should know about that. And you're like,
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how do you run a day business? How do you how do you
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make time for I struggle to make time for all the learning that I feel
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I have to do, never mind the guys on the shop floor doing the
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day to day sparking. It is a real challenge, but I think the
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first step is doing it, doing something, doing anything to want to shive
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you. And there's there's no shortage of it from the ECA out there or
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anybody else. To be honest, Darren, what would your advice be to
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somebody wanting to develop their skills further? Any any sort of final thoughts.
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There's no barriers ever to improve in your skills, and like you say,
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there's no shortage of information available. I would always check the quality over quantity,
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so check the source. We do see plenty of I would call it
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training, but a lot of informations on YouTube, But there are a lot
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of great sources, you know, really research the area you're looking to get
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into, speak to others. There are skills funding available, so sometimes there's
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local funding, there's JIB skills funding. The training providers or further educational colleges
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are usually pretty good at sourcing funding if that's available. And what you're going
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to find as well is the eas is going to become more prescriptive in times,
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especially around renewables and raising the bar in terms of expectations. So I
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think the renewables is going to be the key sector driving forward. Darren,
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you've been a gentleman. Thank you very much for taking the time to join
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us today because I know you're a busy man for having me. You're listening
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to Fix Radio the Builder stationed The Electrical Show with Thomas Nagi. I'm Thomas
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Nagie with Paul Mean and on the Electrical Show and we are talking about how
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we learn as electricians. Now, Paul, why why is it important to
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spend time considering your approach to learning and how should we approach CPD essentially,
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because I mean CPD there's tons of that online though, isn't there? And
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there are I mean, his name's lost on me. Now your right hand
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man, what's his name? Mate? Boye? Yes, sparking injust but
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he does. He does loads of CPD stuff from what I understand, doesn't
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he? Yeah? He does? And now and again he's not like full
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time out or anything. He's is he building his training school? But yeah,
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No, I think with CPD, I think it's a new world for
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the industry. I think most electricians to conest of you sitting in a van,
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because a lot of them were sitting in a van listening to this.
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They don't think of their learning journey as in, oh, what is my
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learning journey? What they'll do is they'll go, I got this job on
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how do I get it to work? Or how do I get this equipment
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to work? And there comes a point where there is a realization that you
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may go onto a job and fail miserably. Your price a job. You'll
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go and do the job and it will be a disaster and you'll make no
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money. Generally, I found when I was an electrician, if I wasn't
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making money, or the job went over what have I failed at? And
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that was where the start of the learning journey. How do I prevent myself
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from making repeating errors? I need to learn, I need to be better
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at it. When the seventeenth radition of iron rings came out, I walked
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away from it completely, totally, one hundred percent for like eight years.
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Didn't touch the re eggs, didn't read them, didn't want to know them,
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and I by the end of it, I felt completely incompetent on using
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them and applying them and giving any advice, which is why I went back
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to it. Learning is different for different people's perceptions. Some people listening in
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the van now, some people listen to podcasts. Some people will watch YouTube.
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Some people have visual learners. They'll only learning they've got hands on and
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I was teaching them. But podcast is a good way of doing it,
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because I actually do that. You can literally just you can just open open
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whatever podcast, Spotify, whatever it is. You can just listen to your
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podcasts while you're driving to work, and you can actually just literally just absorb.
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I actually drive. I do listen back now to my old podcasts because
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I don't recognize the sound of my own voice. So it's quite weird listening
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to yourself down that's really good. Oh yeah, that's me. So yeah,
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occasionally do a podcast now and again. But I mean, why is
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it important to continue learning in this industry? I think ultimately it's just down
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to the speed at which everything is moving forwards at If you're learning, you're
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living. If you're not learning, you're not. You don't realize it at
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the end of the day. So we said the other week, the fastest
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way is the slowest. Yea. The slower you go, the quicker you'll
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get there. And it's fantastic. It's a fantastic saying yeah. And there's
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so much to learn. I mean, it's easy for us to sit here
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and go do ev do battery stories, do solo PV. No, take
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your time, just take one bite terry and then absorb it and become really
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good at it, and then take your next bite at the cherry and just
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do it that way. Now everybody's got the budgets to do all this training
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and everything else, because there's a cost to everything. But yeah, it
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is important, and I think the more important the more access we give to
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free knowledge that inspires people maybe to one and go and get an underpinning qualification
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is really important because that's the other thing. There's a lot of knowledge which
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sits behind paywalls as well. Like you say, that's the same podcast.
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That's why mister Watts Sparking Injury does his stuff. It's to take that away
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from the paywalls, because you're never going to level an industry up or improve
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it if it's all hidden behind paywalls. We can be in sometimes one of
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the poorest paid trades. You know, some jobs do pay not much,
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so guys will just pay the bills and fuel and insurance rather than training.
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So a lot of electric and a hell of a lot that only training were
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ever going to get. Is if somebody says you need to go and do
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the Reggs updates, do you know what I mean? Or they go out
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for a day out to an elect show that's or read professional Electrician magazine.
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That for a lot of people is yeah, that's all they're going to get.
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That's why I'm a big fan of the physical magazines in the wholesalers on
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the counter that you can pick up because I remember when I was younger,
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the only real CPD that I first ever heard of was a professional electriction magazine.
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I mean there's a lot of people out there that do they do have
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real bit you know, bed bugs and grievances with you know, contractors,
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and I kind of get it. I mean contractors who put their lives on
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social media and stuff. But you do learn a ton of stuff. I
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mean that, Yeah, there's some ropey stuff out there, but that act
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said that huge resource of information and people literally just they're just sharing their their
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day to day lives of how not even just electrically, just their business one
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to one, how they how their businesses run and tick. I mean there's
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a wealth of information you could learn out there if you just clicker, just
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go out there and find it. I mean it's tons of it there is.
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The trouble is, with like of anything on filming on social there are
19:06
certain clients that won't want their dirty laundry year. So I think me and
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you've had a conversation, it's like, no, you can't film in my
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switch from because it's it's not up to code, shall we say? And
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I would get shot if I allowed that, because my social media policy is
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quite intense. Unfortunately, a lot of client organizations don't want that breath of
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fresh air. Honesty. What they will do want to do is celebrate the
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positive when they've done a new a new building, or a new rewire or
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a nice positive stuff. Not h this was an absolute death trap. But
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now it's really cool to celebrate the cool bit, but not the look how
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bad we got to state, you know, ourselves into that's generally not successful.
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But for electricians, let sponsor about we're really inquisitive all that look at
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a state at that that's terrible. How would I do that? Your brain
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even when you shop them with the missus. I was in last night and
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I was literally snagging the trade work and the cabling and the fire alarms and
19:57
while I was being taught walking around that labyrinth but fixed radio. That's it
20:03
for today's Electrical show, where we've talked about how we learn as electricians in
20:07
our industry. Any final words on metal munching. What was the quality of
20:15
the metal munching? And by the way, it was rubbish. It was
20:17
like a two hundred and twenty five meal like juty tray, cables on it,
20:21
in it, around it, on the side of it, tie ups
20:22
around the flunges. Yeah, well they weren't any flunges. It was like
20:26
juty, sorry, and then it kind of just stopped and there was about
20:29
an eight meter where somebody had just literally drilled a red plug and a screw
20:33
and a black tie band. I actually put it on my Instagram because it
20:36
was just so lashy and guys tie up in comm's cables to fire alarm installs
20:41
and you're just like, this is on public Show. I'm a big fan
20:45
of having everything on public show because one my view on most electrical installations is
20:49
really a lot of people may think it's stupid. Imagine you're sixty years old
20:53
and your life has not gone the way you want it, and you have
20:56
to go back on the tools or you have to go doing maintenance work,
21:00
make the life. Make the job easy for you as a sixty year old,
21:04
because you don't want non compliment. Benni Radius's tight corners, tight rooms,
21:08
really badly laid out, really poorly labeled, to do a good job
21:11
now so that you're making life easy for yourself and others. And that's just
21:15
my weird mindset that apparently is different and unique and strange, but hey,
21:21
I can't change it. You can hear the show again from ten PM on
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Fixed Radio with more great music and you can download it. By the way,
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also you can download as a podcast, so make sure you please leave
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us a review and subscribe to get every new episode as it comes out.
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Now we are as you know, we're a community of electricians and we are
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