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#058 Jason Flom with Calvin Buari · Wrongful Conviction

0:02
Speaker 1: I've never been in trouble in my life. I didn't
0:03
Speaker 1: even have a parking ticket, you know what I mean.
0:05
Speaker 1: I was brought up like cops are the good guys.
0:09
Speaker 1: I didn't know what was going to happen, but I
0:11
Speaker 1: do know that everything was stacked against me. Everything like everything.
0:17
Speaker 2: This isn't supposed to happen this way.
0:21
Speaker 1: I'm innocent.
0:22
Speaker 2: I know I'm innocent.
0:23
Speaker 1: I know I had nothing to do with this.
0:25
Speaker 2: How is this possible?
0:28
Speaker 3: I grew up trusting the systems. I've grew up believing
0:30
Speaker 3: that every human being should do the right thing. And
0:33
Speaker 3: that's why, even though I knew I was dealing with
0:35
Speaker 3: Coreugh people, I wasn't going to break anyone to get
0:38
Speaker 3: me out of prison because I wouldn't live with the
0:40
Speaker 3: fact that I break my way out of my wife's death.
0:44
Speaker 1: I'm not innocent, too proven guilty. I'm guilty until I
0:47
Speaker 1: prove my innocence. And that's absolutely what happened to me.
0:51
Speaker 1: Our system.
0:52
Speaker 4: Since I've been out ten years, it has come a
0:53
Speaker 4: little ways, but it's still broken.
0:56
Speaker 3: I totally lot trusting humanity after what's happened to me.
1:02
Speaker 4: This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with
1:19
Speaker 4: Jason Flamm. Today's episode features two extraordinary people. Steve Fishman,
1:25
Speaker 4: the journalist who was the host of Empire on Blood,
1:29
Speaker 4: which played a role in the ultimate reversal of the
1:32
Speaker 4: conviction of our other guest who was in prison for
1:36
Speaker 4: over two decades for a double murder he didn't commit.
1:40
Speaker 4: And that's Calvin.
1:41
Speaker 5: Bar Calvin Buari was convicted of a double homicide in
1:45
Speaker 5: nineteen ninety five, but maintained he was innocent for more
1:49
Speaker 5: than two decades. He was released last year after his
1:52
Speaker 5: conviction was overturned, but prosecutors threatened to retry the case
1:56
Speaker 5: until last week.
1:58
Speaker 4: So Steve, welcome to the show.
2:00
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.
2:01
Speaker 4: Jason and Calvin Welcome to Wrongful Conviction.
2:04
Speaker 1: Thank you. Thanks for having me.
2:05
Speaker 4: Jason, Let's get right into the story, because your story
2:09
Speaker 4: has more twists and turns than a Hollywood movie. I
2:12
Speaker 4: would say, let's go back to the beginning. Calvin, where
2:15
Speaker 4: did you grow up?
2:17
Speaker 1: I grew up in the Bronx. I grew up at
2:20
Speaker 1: nine to twenty two East to eleventh Street in the
2:22
Speaker 1: northeast section of the Bronx Wakefield area.
2:26
Speaker 4: And what was that like? What was your childhood, Like,
2:28
Speaker 4: did you have brothers, sisters? Were your parents at home?
2:30
Speaker 4: Was it a tough neighborhood? What was the situation growing up?
2:35
Speaker 1: That's where I was born, But I was moving around.
2:38
Speaker 1: Where was that At one time? I was staying in Brooklyn,
2:41
Speaker 1: in the Brownsville area. You know, it's very rough, especially
2:44
Speaker 1: in the seventies at that time. I was a baby
2:47
Speaker 1: when I was in the Bronx, but I came back
2:49
Speaker 1: to the Bronx because that's where my grandmother lived and
2:52
Speaker 1: my mother ended up moving back with her mother.
2:55
Speaker 4: Your dad wasn't around, No, my.
2:57
Speaker 1: Dad wasn't around. He left me when I was about
2:59
Speaker 1: I think three or four years old.
3:02
Speaker 4: And what about brothers and sisters.
3:04
Speaker 1: I have one brother, one younger brother who's a year
3:07
Speaker 1: younger than me. His name is Abdul b That's just
3:11
Speaker 1: a brother on my mother's side. I have a whole
3:15
Speaker 1: lot of other siblings on my father's side as well
3:18
Speaker 1: that I just recently started getting in contact with.
3:21
Speaker 4: Got it, Okay, So you grew up in well difficult circumstances, right,
3:27
Speaker 4: dodge in trouble and ultimately getting into getting into trouble,
3:33
Speaker 4: but not the trouble that you were convicted of right. No,
3:35
Speaker 4: absolutely not, and that's part of the crazy story. So
3:39
Speaker 4: you were known as a fixture in the drug trade
3:42
Speaker 4: at the time that this went on, right, Yes, And
3:45
Speaker 4: you were in the crosshairs of the police as a
3:48
Speaker 4: result of the fact that you were a known dealer.
3:50
Speaker 1: Yes.
3:51
Speaker 4: And can you just give us a quick overview of
3:54
Speaker 4: what your life was like when you were in the
3:56
Speaker 4: game in the Bronx back then.
4:00
Speaker 1: I mean, when I was in the game, I could
4:02
Speaker 1: say I was on top of my game, my lifestyle
4:06
Speaker 1: was good, I had money, and I was doing well,
4:10
Speaker 1: you know. So I don't know what else I could
4:13
Speaker 1: say about that.
4:14
Speaker 6: I mean I could have add at a little bit
4:17
Speaker 6: of few details. Cal sometimes likes to talk about him,
4:22
Speaker 6: but you know that's not who he is now. So
4:23
Speaker 6: I understand a little shyness about it. But Cal is
4:27
Speaker 6: he most told me he was living the life. And
4:30
Speaker 6: we think of people imitating rap stars now, but rap
4:33
Speaker 6: stars back then were imitating people like Cal So. He
4:37
Speaker 6: had a couple of mink coats, he had a matching
4:39
Speaker 6: mink hat. He had two what he called black Man's wishes,
4:45
Speaker 6: which b m W. The car that let people know
4:50
Speaker 6: that he made it and I think, yeah, that was
4:55
Speaker 6: part of the great thrill of it. But in the end,
4:58
Speaker 6: that brought a lot of attention into the can at
5:00
Speaker 6: the wrong kind of attention.
5:03
Speaker 4: I'm not judging one way or the other. I don't
5:05
Speaker 4: think anybody can unless they walk a mile in your shoes.
5:08
Speaker 4: That being said, how did this crazy situation unfold? You
5:13
Speaker 4: were convicted of a murder in nineteen ninety two, So
5:17
Speaker 4: on that faithful night of September tenth, nineteen ninety two,
5:21
Speaker 4: two brothers, Elijah and Saladin Harris, twenty four and twenty
5:25
Speaker 4: five years old, were murdered in cold blood as they
5:27
Speaker 4: sat in the car eating their food. And that's what
5:31
Speaker 4: started this whole chain of events that led to your
5:35
Speaker 4: wrong for conviction. Yes, were you there at the time.
5:39
Speaker 1: I wasn't on the scene where the crime happened at
5:43
Speaker 1: I was in the middle of the block. It was
5:45
Speaker 1: probably what like five hundred or one thousand feet away
5:50
Speaker 1: from where the incident actually took place when it had happened.
5:54
Speaker 1: But I was always in and around that area at
5:58
Speaker 1: all times. That was the block that I was known
6:01
Speaker 1: for selling drugs at.
6:02
Speaker 6: Just to set the scene. One of the things that's
6:04
Speaker 6: kind of incredible. Cow was a drug distributor, a very
6:08
Speaker 6: good one. I mean, he's got immense entrepreneurial talents, which
6:14
Speaker 6: also served him well when he was in prison and
6:17
Speaker 6: managing his own case.
6:19
Speaker 2: But the thing that's incredible.
6:21
Speaker 6: Going back to the late eighties early nineties, is that
6:25
Speaker 6: the cops target Cow and they say it out loud.
6:30
Speaker 6: It's in the newspaper, we want Cow Buari and they
6:34
Speaker 6: go so far as to say he's not only a murderer,
6:39
Speaker 6: we believe a drug dealer who walks around flaunting his success,
6:44
Speaker 6: but he knows black magic.
6:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was like the biggest propaganda in the world.
6:51
Speaker 1: I think that only happened because they figured out that
6:55
Speaker 1: I had an African last name, and instead of me
7:00
Speaker 1: knowing this black magic as they proclaimed, they were the
7:04
Speaker 1: ones that were really on the witch hunt and they
7:06
Speaker 1: just wanted me by all means necessary. And one of
7:09
Speaker 1: the things that I learned later is this is the
7:12
Speaker 1: way that Alan Caren when he mentions how you know,
7:17
Speaker 1: he utilized different tactics and angles, that was actually one
7:23
Speaker 1: of his biggest tools. Because what happened was when I
7:27
Speaker 1: went to trial, not only did he ambush me with surprise,
7:31
Speaker 1: witnesses that me or my lawyer didn't know about who
7:34
Speaker 1: was coming into wrongly accuse me. He also utilized the media,
7:40
Speaker 1: so now jurors were actually getting that article delivered in
7:47
Speaker 1: little flyers to their houses while I was on trial.
7:51
Speaker 4: Wow, you never heard telling before?
7:53
Speaker 2: Yeah?
7:53
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think there was even like a newsletter, a
7:55
Speaker 6: co op newsletter.
7:57
Speaker 2: That did this.
7:57
Speaker 6: And you know, Alan Karen's the prosecute. He works for
8:00
Speaker 6: the bronx DA, He's got a big reputation. He comes
8:04
Speaker 6: in like they're throwing their heavy hitter at it because
8:07
Speaker 6: they want Col. And you know Cal has in their minds.
8:12
Speaker 6: I think he's you've been accused of another murder and
8:15
Speaker 6: Cal keeps eluding them, and this kind of engenders this
8:21
Speaker 6: ferocity on their part to let's get Cow.
8:26
Speaker 4: And that's something that I talk about a lot. You know,
8:28
Speaker 4: when they take this talk about black magic like a
8:33
Speaker 4: witch hunter, they decide they're going to get Col. Right.
8:36
Speaker 4: That means, now this double murder happens, are like, how convenient,
8:39
Speaker 4: we'll pin this on you. But in the meantime, that
8:42
Speaker 4: means by definition that they're totally willing to ignore the
8:46
Speaker 4: actual killer or killers, who are then going to be
8:49
Speaker 4: free to go do it again. But I want to
8:50
Speaker 4: go back a little bit because there you are five
8:54
Speaker 4: hundred one thousand feet away whatever shots ring out. I mean,
8:57
Speaker 4: this was a very violent time, right was there a
9:00
Speaker 4: were shootings a frequent thing in the neighborhood.
9:03
Speaker 1: I mean in that era, murders were at an all
9:07
Speaker 1: time high in New York. I think at that time
9:10
Speaker 1: was the murder capital. You know, you had two thousand
9:13
Speaker 1: and something murders a year. Looking back at that time
9:16
Speaker 1: and that age, you know, literally I knew that when
9:19
Speaker 1: I was in the lifestyle I was in. Every day
9:22
Speaker 1: that I walked out my house, I knew I was
9:24
Speaker 1: putting my life on the line. But you know, to me,
9:28
Speaker 1: it was a sacrifice because I felt like I had
9:30
Speaker 1: to beat the man of my household because my father
9:34
Speaker 1: wasn't around and I was the oldest sibling, and my
9:37
Speaker 1: mother lost a job and she was struggling.
9:40
Speaker 4: So even in a neighborhood where shootings were a regular occurrence,
9:45
Speaker 4: this was a double murder of two brothers, and you
9:49
Speaker 4: heard the shots. Did you go to the scenes, and
9:51
Speaker 4: then how did it happen? When did the arrest happen,
9:53
Speaker 4: and when did you start to see that this was
9:55
Speaker 4: really going to be your undoing.
9:58
Speaker 1: After that happened, I had immediately ran to the opposite
10:02
Speaker 1: end of the block and I was with a friend
10:04
Speaker 1: of mine's, John Parris, you know may rest in Piec's
10:07
Speaker 1: not here today. And then when I walked back up
10:10
Speaker 1: to the block, we walked to his house because he
10:13
Speaker 1: had drugs on him, and we started seeing police come
10:17
Speaker 1: to the corner of the block, so we wanted to
10:20
Speaker 1: know what was going on because we just heard the
10:22
Speaker 1: shots go off. So once he had took what he
10:25
Speaker 1: had in the house, we walked up to the block
10:27
Speaker 1: and that's when I found out that two guys had
10:29
Speaker 1: got murdered.
10:30
Speaker 4: Did you know those guys? No?
10:32
Speaker 1: I didn't.
10:33
Speaker 4: Were you arrested on the spot or no, I wasn't.
10:36
Speaker 1: I was arrested six months later. I was arrested because
10:41
Speaker 1: Aldrick Griffin, he was one of the leaders of the
10:44
Speaker 1: Shower Posse, the Jamaican gang called the Shower Posse, and
10:48
Speaker 1: from the records that I had read, he had gotten
10:51
Speaker 1: locked up for inoperable or a firearm, a weapon, and
10:55
Speaker 1: I think some drugs. He already wanted to get me
10:59
Speaker 1: off the block because he was also my competition of
11:02
Speaker 1: course the street. So that's how I got arrested. He
11:06
Speaker 1: falsely accused me for killing the Harvest brothers.
11:09
Speaker 6: And remember, I mean this block gets called eventually Corner
11:13
Speaker 6: on Blood, right on that corner, and you know, some
11:17
Speaker 6: years later, there's like seven eight nine shootings within the
11:20
Speaker 6: span of a month, so this becomes a very very
11:23
Speaker 6: hot block. Juliani comes in, he wants to clean it up.
11:27
Speaker 6: Calf kind of falls into that to that profile in
11:31
Speaker 6: a big way. But when they first arrest him, I
11:34
Speaker 6: think it's March of ninety three, so that's like six
11:38
Speaker 6: months after the actual executions. It's an aspirational arrest. I mean,
11:44
Speaker 6: they got one witness who may or may not hold
11:49
Speaker 6: up in court, but they want Cal off the street.
11:52
Speaker 6: So hey, we're gonna throw him in jail for as
11:54
Speaker 6: long as we can, and we're going to try and
11:56
Speaker 6: develop a case while we're holding him, and they don't
12:01
Speaker 6: have a case. It takes some years, and the thing
12:04
Speaker 6: that comes out is that they're actually about to walk
12:07
Speaker 6: away from this case. They're completely bluffing. Cal mentions Alan Karen,
12:13
Speaker 6: the prosecutor, and really he tells me in the podcast
12:17
Speaker 6: he had no case. He says I was bluffing. I
12:21
Speaker 6: was going to take this as far as I could
12:24
Speaker 6: and then dismiss it. And then there's a twist and
12:27
Speaker 6: a turn that intervenes three years later.
12:32
Speaker 1: I wanted to touch on that too. I literally have
12:35
Speaker 1: to commence Steve because I think that he did a
12:37
Speaker 1: more thorough investigation than any prosecutor, than any lawyer that
12:43
Speaker 1: I ever had, than any detective that was ever on
12:46
Speaker 1: my case. And he talked to every single individual that
12:50
Speaker 1: had anything to do with my case. And you know,
12:53
Speaker 1: with that bluff that he said, that was a violation
12:56
Speaker 1: of the sixth Amendment to my speedy trial rights. He
12:59
Speaker 1: never had had a case against me. They always knew
13:01
Speaker 1: that that guy initially was lying. When he got arrested,
13:06
Speaker 1: he immediately went back to Jamaica. He wasn't trying to
13:09
Speaker 1: cooperate with them. He just utilized me to get out
13:12
Speaker 1: of jail and possibly get back on the block to
13:15
Speaker 1: try to take over what I had going on out there,
13:18
Speaker 1: you understand. And the sad part about it is when
13:22
Speaker 1: you talk about Alan Caaren, you talk about one of
13:26
Speaker 1: Robert Johnson's leading hitman, so speak.
13:29
Speaker 6: That Johnson's the district attorney in the Bronx for twenty
13:32
Speaker 6: five years.
13:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, and with him it's sad because I know that
13:39
Speaker 1: that man has a lot of individuals possibly in prison
13:43
Speaker 1: right now for cases they didn't commit. And with Robert Johnson,
13:47
Speaker 1: the reason why I brought him up is because under
13:49
Speaker 1: his tenure, the Bronx had the most Brady violation and
13:54
Speaker 1: prosbittorial misconduct violations than any other borough and none of
13:58
Speaker 1: them ever has been chastised or punished for none of
14:02
Speaker 1: these acts. So when they get away with doing these things,
14:05
Speaker 1: they walk around as though they are above the law,
14:09
Speaker 1: like with impunity that they have no punity. So it's
14:12
Speaker 1: just sad, you know, rather than see justice done, Alan Cameron,
14:17
Speaker 1: rather uphold the conviction. And that's who this man is.
14:22
Speaker 1: And it's just a lot of other people that I
14:25
Speaker 1: know that are in the situation that I am, because
14:27
Speaker 1: when this God took a set on you, he was
14:30
Speaker 1: gonna go by all means to take you down, period
14:33
Speaker 1: and he showed that clearly when he spoke to Steve.
14:36
Speaker 1: He has no impunity for that, you know.
14:39
Speaker 4: No, it's something that we talk about unwrungful conviction a lot,
14:42
Speaker 4: which is that until we are able to get rid
14:45
Speaker 4: of prosecutorial immunity, which is almost total but probably the
14:50
Speaker 4: only profession that enjoys that type of protection. Right almost
14:54
Speaker 4: any job that you do. If you're a doctor and
14:56
Speaker 4: you mess up, you know you're going down. I mean,
14:58
Speaker 4: it's like and there's so many exis samples of that,
15:01
Speaker 4: but they're able to get away with just insane things.
15:05
Speaker 4: I mean, it's the most powerful position in the justice system.
15:09
Speaker 4: I think most people think that a judge has an
15:12
Speaker 4: ultimate authority, but we know, those of us who are
15:14
Speaker 4: in this business know that the prosecutor has so much power.
15:18
Speaker 4: They can drop charges whenever they want to, for whatever
15:22
Speaker 4: reason they want to. They can throw the harshest penalties
15:25
Speaker 4: at you. In an attempt to bluff, as you said,
15:28
Speaker 4: to get you to cop a plea.
15:30
Speaker 6: Cal Is offered a plea three years, three years, and
15:35
Speaker 6: he turned it down because he's innocent. And you know,
15:37
Speaker 6: to your point about the prosecutors, one thing that happens
15:41
Speaker 6: is the system gives them, legitimately by law, enormous advantages.
15:47
Speaker 6: Now imagine six witnesses come forward and testify against cal
15:53
Speaker 6: and they're really drug dealers who have been in the
15:56
Speaker 6: scene or people who have committed crimes, and the prosecution
16:01
Speaker 6: is allowed to encouraged to hand out deals.
16:04
Speaker 4: Sure.
16:05
Speaker 2: And so.
16:07
Speaker 6: There's actually a guy in prison and they go to
16:10
Speaker 6: him and they say how long you want to do
16:13
Speaker 6: right or you can testify against Cal. By the way,
16:16
Speaker 6: there's a guy who's very close to Cal. This all happens.
16:19
Speaker 6: It's a kind of intimate drama. It all happens within
16:23
Speaker 6: most of it, within a circle. But the second advantage,
16:27
Speaker 6: and this is what really shocked me. I think when
16:29
Speaker 6: I looked at the transcript, you know, eleven hundred pages thick,
16:34
Speaker 6: Cal had it sent to me. This is of a
16:36
Speaker 6: trial in nineteen ninety five. As Cal alluded to. The
16:40
Speaker 6: prosecutor goes to the judge and says, Calvin Buwari black magic,
16:45
Speaker 6: Calvin Bari is so dangerous. We need an order of protection.
16:49
Speaker 6: The judge says, all right, you know, I mean the
16:53
Speaker 6: judge isn't running this. It's the prosecution that's running this.
16:56
Speaker 6: He says, okay, I don't want to be on the
16:58
Speaker 6: front page of the New York Post if something happened.
17:00
Speaker 6: And so that means that Cal and his attorney cannot
17:05
Speaker 6: know who is going to testify against him until the
17:09
Speaker 6: witness walks to the stand. Now, I mean, imagine that
17:13
Speaker 6: kind of disadvantage, and that's legal. To your point, Jason,
17:17
Speaker 6: there's a kind of immunity. Whether I don't think it's
17:21
Speaker 6: in the law, but it in practice. Prosecutors are not
17:26
Speaker 6: held to account for there. Let's give it the best,
17:30
Speaker 6: the best interpretation. They're mistakes. Sometimes those mistakes are due
17:35
Speaker 6: to overzealousness or refusal to look at the facts, and
17:39
Speaker 6: it doesn't have an impact on a career, so you know, recidivism,
17:44
Speaker 6: that's what we're talking about, right.
17:45
Speaker 4: They are in fact immune in so many ways. There's
17:59
Speaker 4: a things that I want to highlight. One is that
18:02
Speaker 4: had they really believed that you murdered two people in
18:06
Speaker 4: cold blood, there's no possibility they would have offered you
18:09
Speaker 4: three years. That's ridiculous, right, That's just I mean that
18:13
Speaker 4: you have you really have to suspend a lot of
18:16
Speaker 4: layers of disbelief in order to try to give yourself
18:19
Speaker 4: around that one. And what you were talking about is
18:22
Speaker 4: a legal principle that was developed in England centuries ago,
18:26
Speaker 4: which is called trial by ambush, right, which was where
18:28
Speaker 4: they would not tell the defense anything that they were
18:31
Speaker 4: going to say or do. Or who they were going
18:33
Speaker 4: to bring in. Their thought was that this way they
18:35
Speaker 4: would get to the truth because they would just use
18:38
Speaker 4: this surprise tactic that but of course it's just patently unfair.
18:43
Speaker 4: And now we have, you know, the Brady decision from
18:45
Speaker 4: nineteen sixty four, in which the Supreme Court said that
18:49
Speaker 4: prosecutors have a duty, that obligation to disclose exculpatory evidence
18:54
Speaker 4: to the defense. But they left it up to the
18:57
Speaker 4: prosecutors to decide what they considered to be operatory. So
19:00
Speaker 4: they really they had it right, and then they sort
19:03
Speaker 4: of pulled the rugout from under their own decision, which
19:06
Speaker 4: left us in this situation where we see time and
19:08
Speaker 4: again in New York State, it's common that they sometimes
19:11
Speaker 4: they turn it over the day of the trial too, right,
19:14
Speaker 4: so it's like, oh, here's the stuff, and then what
19:15
Speaker 4: are you supposed to do? Like, you can't, you can't,
19:18
Speaker 4: you can't examine it.
19:20
Speaker 1: And investigate, you can't do anything. It's absolutely what you said,
19:23
Speaker 1: it's a trial by ambush, I mean, and that's how
19:25
Speaker 1: it was ultimately sambag and convicted. Because if you're looking
19:29
Speaker 1: at the ambush and you're looking at the media that
19:31
Speaker 1: was brought up against me. Then you have six individuals
19:34
Speaker 1: that say they know me and some of them I
19:37
Speaker 1: didn't know. Then you got a conviction. I'm not innocent,
19:41
Speaker 1: too proven guilty. I'm guilty until I prove my innocence.
19:44
Speaker 1: And that's absolutely what happened to me. But I also
19:47
Speaker 1: think that Alan caeron to to touch more on that
19:50
Speaker 1: point that Steve brought up. He was actually promoted after
19:54
Speaker 1: all of that. He was Robert Johnson's ADA top dog
19:59
Speaker 1: in that off and he allowed him to do whatever
20:02
Speaker 1: he wanted to. That's why he has that attitude that
20:05
Speaker 1: he has. Would you believe that out of four file folders,
20:09
Speaker 1: three of those filefolders went missing in my case completely?
20:13
Speaker 1: So you know this is the new tactic that Alan
20:16
Speaker 1: Karon employed. He's not only gonna turn over the sculpatory evidence,
20:21
Speaker 1: he gonna make sure that any esculpatory evidence just disappears, period.
20:25
Speaker 1: So what do you do now when you have evidence
20:28
Speaker 1: that they have in their possession they possibly always knew
20:31
Speaker 1: I didn't commit the crime that you're gonna never be
20:34
Speaker 1: able to get your hands on. There's also some type
20:37
Speaker 1: of justice reform that needs to be done with that.
20:39
Speaker 1: I think that there needs to be an open case
20:42
Speaker 1: file with the defense attorney and the prosecutor. Because there
20:46
Speaker 1: are both officers of the court, they share the same
20:49
Speaker 1: ethical duty. It shouldn't be a disadvantage where they have
20:53
Speaker 1: all the power. And then if you have anything that
20:56
Speaker 1: can support your position and you'll never get it.
21:00
Speaker 4: Yeah, you'll never know about it, and it is crazy.
21:02
Speaker 4: But the fact is that, as we all know, in
21:05
Speaker 4: a civil trial, everyone has to turn over everything and
21:07
Speaker 4: all you're arguing about is money. In this case, they
21:09
Speaker 4: were arguing about your life and that's for some reason
21:12
Speaker 4: that's not treated with the same level of respect by
21:15
Speaker 4: the justice system as money is, which just strikes me
21:18
Speaker 4: as Alice in Wonderland, like completely upside down and inside out.
21:21
Speaker 4: It doesn't make any damn sense. So back to you,
21:24
Speaker 4: did you know after you go through this trial, they
21:27
Speaker 4: have these witnesses, every one of which was an incentivized witness, right,
21:31
Speaker 4: and you know, had every reason to lie. They didn't
21:34
Speaker 4: really care about you. In some cases they wanted you
21:36
Speaker 4: convicted because, as Robinson did, he wanted you off the
21:39
Speaker 4: street so he could have it to himself. So, I mean,
21:41
Speaker 4: he had multiple reasons he was getting off and he
21:45
Speaker 4: was going into a better business situation. Yeah, because his
21:48
Speaker 4: main competitor was going to be behind bars. So when
21:51
Speaker 4: the jury went out, did you think you had a
21:53
Speaker 4: snowballs chance in hell of being vindicated?
21:55
Speaker 1: I mean, truthfully, I put them even God and at
22:01
Speaker 1: that time, and I'm taking myself back to that time,
22:03
Speaker 1: I didn't know what was gonna happen, but I do
22:06
Speaker 1: know that, you know, everything was stacked against me, everything
22:10
Speaker 1: like everything.
22:11
Speaker 6: Let me just add to that because Dwight Robinson, he's
22:14
Speaker 6: a key, key character. He's a guy who he idolized
22:19
Speaker 6: cal He's four years younger. He admires Cal and then
22:24
Speaker 6: for whatever internal dynamics, he feels spurned.
22:28
Speaker 2: He's hurt.
22:29
Speaker 6: He's also at the same time really ambitious, and that
22:32
Speaker 6: results in an attempted murder of cal So. Dwight Robinson
22:39
Speaker 6: emerges as the central witness. He organizes the prosecution. The
22:44
Speaker 6: prosecutor uses the word to me. He says, Dwight Robinson
22:48
Speaker 6: was a gift. Dwight is bringing people into the prosecutor's
22:53
Speaker 6: office in the back of police cruisers, so he is
22:57
Speaker 6: not only an arm of the prosecution, he's like a
23:00
Speaker 6: lieutenant of the prosecution. They can't do it without him.
23:04
Speaker 6: He has just I think three months prior, tried to
23:07
Speaker 6: murder cow in a week's pro three weeks prior, just
23:12
Speaker 6: in a halle of bullets in an ambush, right, And
23:17
Speaker 6: that information it's kept from the jury in this sense,
23:21
Speaker 6: it's brought up. Dwight denies it on the stand. At
23:26
Speaker 6: the same time, according to Dwight, and Dwight spent a
23:29
Speaker 6: lot of time talking to me. According to Dwight, it's
23:31
Speaker 6: common knowledge among the prosecutions, certainly among the cops or
23:35
Speaker 6: the detectives. And at one point I said to Dwight,
23:39
Speaker 6: I said, were you surprised that they let you commit
23:41
Speaker 6: perjury on the stand? And he said, nah, nah, I
23:46
Speaker 6: understood the game. It's dirty all around. You tell the truth,
23:50
Speaker 6: you're going to lose every time. That may be the
23:53
Speaker 6: most chilling thing that I heard, you know, that kind
23:57
Speaker 6: of organization, that kind of organing of the prosecution.
24:02
Speaker 2: In fact, that kind of by Dwight Robinson, that kind.
24:05
Speaker 6: Of utilizing of the prosecution, becoming this collaborator of the prosecution.
24:11
Speaker 6: And I think cal used the phrase trying to kill
24:14
Speaker 6: cow by other means. He failed with bullets, So now
24:18
Speaker 6: he teams up in the prosecution. And by the way,
24:22
Speaker 6: Dwight admits that he says, yeah, I wanted to get
24:25
Speaker 6: Cal off the street, and I saw this opportunity. So
24:28
Speaker 6: Cal has to spend the next two decades of his
24:31
Speaker 6: life proving the Dwight Robinson, this guy once idolized him.
24:35
Speaker 2: Is a liar.
24:36
Speaker 6: And that's I mean, that's a drama that shouldn't be
24:38
Speaker 6: imposed on to anybody.
24:40
Speaker 2: But it is an amazing drama to follow.
24:42
Speaker 4: And let's get to that because that's one of the
24:44
Speaker 4: more interesting aspects of this case, I think, is that
24:47
Speaker 4: you end up being convicted. Yes, you were sentenced to
24:51
Speaker 4: fifty years of life, fifty the life, right, so that's
24:54
Speaker 4: pretty much game over. But he didn't give up. It
24:58
Speaker 4: would have been pretty easy to give up that point,
25:00
Speaker 4: you know, I mean, you have now seen the justice
25:03
Speaker 4: system at its worst, and you know what they're capable of.
25:07
Speaker 4: You know that they're they're hiding stuff, they're bringing on witnesses.
25:12
Speaker 1: I was cooperating with his sentence to lie.
25:15
Speaker 4: And the most nefarious characters they're bringing onto the stand,
25:18
Speaker 4: like Robinson, right, who they knew was a bad guy, right,
25:21
Speaker 4: but they didn't care. So you know what they're capable
25:24
Speaker 4: of you know, how steep of a hill you've got
25:27
Speaker 4: to climb now, because it just got one hundred times
25:30
Speaker 4: harder because now you're behind bars and you're looking at
25:33
Speaker 4: fifty to life. And then things get really interesting all
25:38
Speaker 4: of a sudden when you get a letter in the mail, right.
25:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've received a foot from Dwight Robinson.
25:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, eight years after his conviction.
25:46
Speaker 4: And where were you serving at this point?
25:48
Speaker 1: I was an upstate correctional facility at that.
25:51
Speaker 4: Time, maximum security, yes, right.
25:54
Speaker 1: And when he wrote me, he started explaining, like I've
25:58
Speaker 1: seen them remorse in them, because you know, one of
26:00
Speaker 1: the things that or jumped out with me is the
26:03
Speaker 1: fact that he started saying, you know, Cal, I'm on
26:06
Speaker 1: the inside looking out now. You know, I know your
26:09
Speaker 1: hand and called for this, and you know, I started
26:12
Speaker 1: to sense some type of remorse, you know, when it
26:15
Speaker 1: started from.
26:15
Speaker 4: There to wait, he was in prison writing to you.
26:18
Speaker 6: Yes, he had been convicted of a different murder under
26:22
Speaker 6: very remarkably similar circumstances. But so Dwight's doing twenty five
26:27
Speaker 6: to life.
26:28
Speaker 4: Right, And let's just point out for a second that
26:30
Speaker 4: that murder didn't ever really have to happen. If they
26:33
Speaker 4: would have just arrested him when they should have in
26:35
Speaker 4: the first place. He wouldn't have been free to go
26:37
Speaker 4: kill whoever it was if he killed. But okay, so
26:40
Speaker 4: let's just put that on the side for a second. Right,
26:43
Speaker 4: So you're here in this maximum security prison. First of all,
26:47
Speaker 4: is it as bad as it sounds?
26:50
Speaker 1: I mean yes, I mean, especially at that time, in
26:52
Speaker 1: that era, it was a whole lot of I mean,
26:55
Speaker 1: if you look at right, because Alan and Upstate in
26:58
Speaker 1: the early nineties, that's when they started to have the
27:00
Speaker 1: most cutting, stabbings and all that type of stuff. So,
27:05
Speaker 1: I mean, jail is just not a place for nobody.
27:08
Speaker 6: To me, I always wondered, cal you know, you're sentenced
27:11
Speaker 6: to fifty years to life for crimes you didn't do.
27:15
Speaker 2: I mean, you have to be angry, And I mean
27:20
Speaker 2: it's true.
27:20
Speaker 1: Oh I was, and I think that I had misdirected
27:24
Speaker 1: anger in the beginning and that's what allowed me to
27:26
Speaker 1: end up in the box. But also being afraid, you
27:30
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. I was in an environment that
27:33
Speaker 1: I felt like you couldn't show no weakness, and if
27:36
Speaker 1: you did, I seen individuals getting raped, stabbed and all
27:41
Speaker 1: types of stuff too. So that's what kind of like
27:45
Speaker 1: I had misdirected anger. So you know, I was doing
27:48
Speaker 1: what the Romans do while and wrong, you know.
27:51
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean you had almost nothing to lose if
27:54
Speaker 4: they could throw you in the prison within the prison,
27:56
Speaker 4: which is the box, right, But other than that, you
27:57
Speaker 4: can to spend the rest of your life in there anyway.
28:00
Speaker 4: So how did you turn that around? Because obviously you
28:03
Speaker 4: found a different year, right, had you already gone through
28:06
Speaker 4: that shift when this letter arrived in the mail, because
28:09
Speaker 4: that's a big moment when that letter gets there, right.
28:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, I had already went through the shift that point.
28:15
Speaker 1: I'm an introvert, so naturally the box was kind of
28:20
Speaker 1: like a good place for me, you know what I'm saying.
28:22
Speaker 1: Not only was I alright with myself, that I noticed
28:25
Speaker 1: that a lot of other individuals they couldn't live with
28:28
Speaker 1: themselves inside of prison. And that's why a lot of
28:31
Speaker 1: people do a lot of things that they do. They
28:34
Speaker 1: want to stay on the gate, they want to get high,
28:36
Speaker 1: they want to get into fights. Because you know, I
28:39
Speaker 1: do mine as a devil's playground. So that's what I
28:43
Speaker 1: kind of grew at when I was in solitary confinement.
28:47
Speaker 1: This book by James Allen called as a Man Think.
28:50
Speaker 1: If I read that book, it was a simplistic book
28:52
Speaker 1: to me. However, it kind of like related to me
28:57
Speaker 1: so well because it made me look at the glass
29:01
Speaker 1: half full of instead of half empty, you know, and
29:03
Speaker 1: it allowed me to even look at and messed up
29:08
Speaker 1: situations the good out of it. Even though I have
29:10
Speaker 1: fifty years the life, I knew a lot of individuals
29:13
Speaker 1: that were in the grave, and I still felt like
29:16
Speaker 1: I was alive. So I'm blessed regardless. And that's the
29:21
Speaker 1: mindset that I got into once I read that book,
29:25
Speaker 1: and once I started with that positive energy, that's what
29:29
Speaker 1: really gave me the sensified because at a time I
29:32
Speaker 1: started to beat myself up to the point of saying,
29:34
Speaker 1: you know, I was a drug dealer. Maybe I belong
29:37
Speaker 1: in jail, because in the beginning, that's what I was
29:39
Speaker 1: telling about myself. You know, I never got locked up
29:41
Speaker 1: for selling drugs, so maybe this was a recompense for
29:45
Speaker 1: my actions. And once I got into the positive mind frame,
29:51
Speaker 1: it made me throw that away and say, you know,
29:54
Speaker 1: I'm in here for somebody didn't do. If I was
29:56
Speaker 1: here for drugs, it'll be all right. I did the crime.
29:59
Speaker 1: I'll do the time, but I'm in here for a
30:01
Speaker 1: double homicide I did not commit. And I just started
30:05
Speaker 1: getting into the books, legal books, started reading up on IM,
30:10
Speaker 1: started contacting a lot of attorneys, a lot of investigators.
30:14
Speaker 1: The Innocent Project was one of the main ones. I
30:17
Speaker 1: was in correspondence with Barry Shek, with Vanessa Pokin, Nina Morrison,
30:21
Speaker 1: and a couple of others in an Innocent Project office.
30:25
Speaker 1: But at the time, even though they were corresponding with me,
30:28
Speaker 1: they were not taking cases that did not have DNA
30:31
Speaker 1: evidence at the time, So you know, they were leading
30:35
Speaker 1: me to other law firms that were taking pro bono
30:39
Speaker 1: cases that dealt with wrongful convictions that did not have
30:43
Speaker 1: DNA evidence. At that point, is like the gears shifted
30:47
Speaker 1: for me. And once I started to dig into my case.
30:50
Speaker 1: I'm a very determined and resilient person. Once I put
30:53
Speaker 1: my mind in something, i won't stop until I feel
30:56
Speaker 1: like I'm gonna get it done. I'm not gonna hear
30:58
Speaker 1: no for a answer, and I'm gonna keep pushing until
31:01
Speaker 1: i can't push no more.
31:20
Speaker 2: I met cal after he found that book, and that's
31:23
Speaker 2: a book that came out in like nineteen oh three,
31:25
Speaker 2: something that's by a British guy.
31:27
Speaker 6: It's not a Col's world, but if you read it,
31:30
Speaker 6: what it says essentially is you can create your own
31:32
Speaker 6: reality by controlling your thoughts. And Cal probably the most
31:37
Speaker 6: disciplined person I've ever met in terms of thinking positive,
31:43
Speaker 6: and he had enormous setbacks. It is not only does
31:48
Speaker 6: he get that letter, but imagine Dwight is in one prison,
31:54
Speaker 6: Cal is in another prison, and they are suddenly put together.
31:59
Speaker 6: They suddenly come together at.
32:01
Speaker 1: Which Clinton Correctional Clinton.
32:02
Speaker 6: Correctional Institution, and they meet in the yard. So there's
32:07
Speaker 6: this guy who has maybe has been put away for something,
32:13
Speaker 6: and then there's this other guy who says, you know,
32:15
Speaker 6: I testified you and I shouldn't have, and I mean
32:19
Speaker 6: tell about that meeting.
32:21
Speaker 1: What made me more comfortable is the fact that I
32:25
Speaker 1: received that letter that he confessed to the crime right
32:29
Speaker 1: before I actually met him, because I don't think that
32:32
Speaker 1: I possibly would have went to the yard to meet
32:35
Speaker 1: him when he wanted to meet me. But I have
32:38
Speaker 1: received the confession letter, and I seen him in the
32:41
Speaker 1: mess hall and he told me to come to the yard,
32:45
Speaker 1: and I really wanted to hear what he had to
32:49
Speaker 1: say outside of the fact that he was now saying that,
32:53
Speaker 1: you know, he committed the crime. And when I talked
32:55
Speaker 1: to him, I felt contrition. He started crying and he
33:00
Speaker 1: said the same thing. I'm on the side looking out.
33:02
Speaker 1: I want to do the right thing to get you
33:04
Speaker 1: off because you went here for something you ain't do.
33:06
Speaker 1: And we just started talking and I just wanted to
33:10
Speaker 1: get certain answers from him on why he did what
33:12
Speaker 1: he did, and you know, that's what we talked about.
33:15
Speaker 6: I mean, so if you can imagine Dwight actually confesses
33:19
Speaker 6: to a double murder that Cal's convicted for in this
33:24
Speaker 6: prison yard, and then what happens is on the basis
33:29
Speaker 6: of that, on the strength of that, Cal actually gets
33:32
Speaker 6: a four forty hearing. So now he's back in court
33:35
Speaker 6: and there's somebody else who's confessed to this crime. I mean,
33:40
Speaker 6: Cal has to believe he's going home.
33:44
Speaker 1: Except that on Frank Vigiano and Detective John Wall they
33:49
Speaker 1: were very ambitious for the DA and they were not
33:53
Speaker 1: going to allow that to happen because, like I said,
33:56
Speaker 1: there was a witch hunt out for me and Alan
33:59
Speaker 1: Caroon was at the driving seat of that vehicle and
34:04
Speaker 1: they worked over time to make sure that Dwight Robinson
34:08
Speaker 1: took back that confession.
34:10
Speaker 4: Right, Which is another crazy aspect of this case, because
34:14
Speaker 4: you probably were thinking, well, okay, that's where this thing's
34:17
Speaker 4: winding down. Now you got a written confession, he confessed
34:21
Speaker 4: to you verbally in writing, and he's coming to court
34:25
Speaker 4: to the lawyer, and that should be This was two
34:28
Speaker 4: thousand and three, right, Yes, yeah, so two thousand and three,
34:30
Speaker 4: you've been in for ten years already, maybe eleven, and
34:34
Speaker 4: you're going to court. And did you think when you
34:36
Speaker 4: went to court for that hearing that you were going home? Yes?
34:39
Speaker 1: I really did? You know?
34:41
Speaker 4: It sounded like it to me.
34:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, the next best thing the DNA is a confession,
34:45
Speaker 1: you understand, And that's what I thought until he came
34:50
Speaker 1: in and you know, he got understand and he started
34:53
Speaker 1: doing what he'd do best. He started lying, So so.
34:56
Speaker 6: You didn't know until he got on the stand that
34:58
Speaker 6: he was going to take back his condition.
35:01
Speaker 1: I think we did find out that he did take
35:04
Speaker 1: it back. But to me, when I said I seen
35:08
Speaker 1: him and how I felt with the meeting when I
35:11
Speaker 1: met him, I didn't. I felt like probably the DA
35:14
Speaker 1: or the detectives were pressuring them like they did. But
35:17
Speaker 1: I felt like, still, he'll probably come to court and
35:19
Speaker 1: tell the truth, you understand, But he didn't.
35:24
Speaker 4: It's it's a remarkable plot twist, and then your case
35:28
Speaker 4: falls apart, right, I mean, he recants his recantation, right,
35:31
Speaker 4: so he's reversed himself again. Now his credibility is really
35:35
Speaker 4: out the window, right, because he's hard to tell when
35:37
Speaker 4: somebody is lying when they're oh, when you know, when
35:39
Speaker 4: they keep changing their story. I assume that they switched
35:43
Speaker 4: him to a different prison at this point. Did you
35:44
Speaker 4: have to go back to the same prison together after this?
35:47
Speaker 1: No, before we even went to court, he had left
35:51
Speaker 1: the facility that we were I think immediately after the
35:55
Speaker 1: confession he left. And you know what's so funny about that?
35:59
Speaker 1: I don't know, man, but it just seemed like a
36:00
Speaker 1: conspiracy too, because that naturally doesn't happen where they put
36:04
Speaker 1: individuals that testify against you with the god, you know,
36:09
Speaker 1: that type of stuff. It does just seem kind of
36:11
Speaker 1: funny that they did that, you know, like they really
36:15
Speaker 1: wanted me to really bury myself your father, you know,
36:18
Speaker 1: I think about that all the time.
36:20
Speaker 4: These dirty tricks are just I just don't I really
36:24
Speaker 4: don't understand that. As we skip ahead, there were other recantations,
36:28
Speaker 4: There were twists and turns. Then twenty fifteen comes. Two
36:31
Speaker 4: decades have passed, even behind bars, and now things finally
36:36
Speaker 4: take a turn for the better. You've had Steve what's
36:38
Speaker 4: here with us now? Who's been investigating your case diligently
36:43
Speaker 4: fighting for you. You have the Innocence Project helping you.
36:47
Speaker 4: You have pro bono attorneys who have taken your case.
36:50
Speaker 1: Myron Bell Duck, the greatest lawyer and the planet Earth
36:53
Speaker 1: that ever woke this planet Earth.
36:56
Speaker 4: Yea, his name is gold. So you got Myron. I mean,
36:59
Speaker 4: you went from having the odds really stacked against you.
37:03
Speaker 4: And it's a credit to you, by the way, because
37:05
Speaker 4: it would have been really easy for you to just fold.
37:07
Speaker 4: But instead, somehow or other, from inside this darkest place,
37:12
Speaker 4: you managed to enlist literally the dream team behind you.
37:17
Speaker 1: Absolutely.
37:18
Speaker 4: So twenty fifteen comes. What happens.
37:21
Speaker 1: I had the investigator working on a case, and he
37:25
Speaker 1: actually was able to get some new leads. And once
37:29
Speaker 1: the new leads came out with the two sisters that
37:32
Speaker 1: were actually like about ten to fifteen feet away from
37:36
Speaker 1: the crime when it happened, they lived right where the
37:38
Speaker 1: crime happened at and they actually seen Dwight.
37:42
Speaker 4: Due to crime, there's a plot twist, no, I mean,
37:45
Speaker 4: and we've seen that again and again too, where the
37:47
Speaker 4: witness is the actual killer and there's an incentive to
37:50
Speaker 4: lie right Once.
37:52
Speaker 1: Once I got that information, I think I was in
37:55
Speaker 1: touch with more in Tankliff at the time. I was
37:58
Speaker 1: also in contact with Jabal Collins, who was working for
38:02
Speaker 1: Joe Rudin. I really wanted Joe Rudin as my attorney
38:05
Speaker 1: at the time, but I wrote Myron Bell doc, the
38:11
Speaker 1: great Mayron Bell Doc, you know, who actually represented Hurricane
38:15
Speaker 1: Carter and a whole lot of other people. And when
38:18
Speaker 1: I wrote to him, he gave me his number so
38:21
Speaker 1: I could call him and talk to him. And from
38:24
Speaker 1: the initial start, man, I just loved this guy. He
38:26
Speaker 1: treated me like family. He showed that I mattered, and
38:31
Speaker 1: I don't think that at that point, I never had
38:34
Speaker 1: an older male figure in my life that actually genuinely was,
38:40
Speaker 1: you know, acted concerned for me or my well being.
38:44
Speaker 1: And he was actually going for a surgery at the time,
38:48
Speaker 1: and he didn't even know if he was would have
38:50
Speaker 1: been able to take the case. And it was so
38:53
Speaker 1: funny that. You know, I initially wanted Joe rudin so bad,
38:59
Speaker 1: but you know, Joe Ruden wanted his money. You know,
39:01
Speaker 1: he didn't care about nothing, no innocence or any of that.
39:04
Speaker 1: He wanted his money. But the funny thing was, Myron
39:09
Speaker 1: had told me that if I take the case, if
39:12
Speaker 1: you could get somebody to assist me, then I'll feel
39:15
Speaker 1: better because I'm getting ready to go through the surgery.
39:17
Speaker 1: So I contacted Joel at that time, and once I
39:21
Speaker 1: once he found out that Myron Belldock was on the case,
39:24
Speaker 1: he was willing to jump on board now, so that
39:26
Speaker 1: was kind of ironic. That's the first time that he
39:28
Speaker 1: ever stayed on the phone with me for an hour,
39:31
Speaker 1: you know. And actually Myron started to get better, he
39:37
Speaker 1: started to heal better. And once I told him that,
39:39
Speaker 1: you know, Joe Ruden would be willing to co counsel
39:42
Speaker 1: with him, he said, don't worry about we don't need
39:44
Speaker 1: him no more. I'll be all right. I got I
39:46
Speaker 1: got it, you know what I mean. And you know
39:47
Speaker 1: that's how Myron was and I had right after the surgery,
39:51
Speaker 1: and it was very touching for me. I had called
39:54
Speaker 1: him in the office. I don't know as it was
39:56
Speaker 1: like eight pm, and I thought he was being home
39:59
Speaker 1: reco helling up. Myron was still in the office working,
40:03
Speaker 1: And here it is this man. He's almost eighty years old.
40:07
Speaker 1: And you know that meant a lot to me because
40:09
Speaker 1: I never had attorney to that point that I felt
40:13
Speaker 1: like was given my case. There all you understand here
40:17
Speaker 1: it is I had the best of the best when
40:19
Speaker 1: it came to the attorney and I'm calling him now
40:22
Speaker 1: and he's on my case. You understand that he should
40:26
Speaker 1: have been home recuperating. I just never met a guy
40:29
Speaker 1: like that, you know, amazing guy.
40:31
Speaker 6: You know I spent a little time with Myron. Cal
40:34
Speaker 6: actually never met Myron. Didn't have that good fortune. But Myron,
40:39
Speaker 6: I don't think he's too much to say. He came
40:41
Speaker 6: off his deathbed to really represent Cal. He had prostate cancer,
40:45
Speaker 6: he had heart problems. He when I met him, he
40:47
Speaker 6: had a tumor behind his eye, so his left eye
40:50
Speaker 6: actually bulged. He'd looked at you, but that left eye
40:53
Speaker 6: kind of veered off to the to the left at
40:56
Speaker 6: a forty five degree angle. It was very disorienting. He's
41:00
Speaker 6: five years old, and he says, this could be my
41:03
Speaker 6: last crusade. And I say to Myron, you're you know,
41:07
Speaker 6: you're either a fool or a hero. And his response is,
41:10
Speaker 6: I think this case is going to make me live
41:13
Speaker 6: five years longer. So myrone is that's where he gets
41:17
Speaker 6: his adrenaline from. And of course the tragedy is that
41:21
Speaker 6: it doesn't make Myron live five years longer. And Cal
41:25
Speaker 6: gets that. I guess you hear a rumor in prison
41:28
Speaker 6: and then you call me and I have to confirm
41:32
Speaker 6: it for call. And you know, Cal is a extremely strong,
41:37
Speaker 6: mentally disciplined, emotionally disciplined person. And by the way, physically
41:43
Speaker 6: he can do one hundred push ups without stopping, so
41:46
Speaker 6: you know, he's been in prison twenty years. He knows
41:49
Speaker 6: his way around physical challenges, emotional challenges. And I confirm
41:55
Speaker 6: that Myron's dead, and you know, for Cal, and I mean, imagine,
41:58
Speaker 6: this is the guy, his savior, his savior now has died,
42:03
Speaker 6: has passed it.
42:04
Speaker 1: And that was like the most crushing blow ever that
42:08
Speaker 1: I ever felt, because I literally felt comfortable with my
42:12
Speaker 1: life ind Myron hands. You know, I want you to understand,
42:16
Speaker 1: I literally felt like that. I never felt like that
42:18
Speaker 1: with nobody, you understand, So when I lost him, It's
42:23
Speaker 1: like I didn't know where to go after that, Like
42:26
Speaker 1: I finally got the person that was the best of
42:30
Speaker 1: the best that I loved him outside of him being
42:34
Speaker 1: my lawyer, you understand, I loved him as a person,
42:37
Speaker 1: and when I lost him, I just didn't know how
42:42
Speaker 1: to take that, you know, because it was like I
42:44
Speaker 1: just came just so far and to be able to
42:49
Speaker 1: get the guy to believe in me, you know, it
42:53
Speaker 1: was just I just I couldn't help it. I've just
42:56
Speaker 1: broke down and I was in the yard and that
43:00
Speaker 1: really broke me down.
43:01
Speaker 6: And you broke down on the phone with me. You
43:03
Speaker 6: called me back, and actually I'd never heard that kind
43:06
Speaker 6: of emotion.
43:07
Speaker 2: I mean you could you couldn't speak exterially.
43:10
Speaker 1: A person is not going to be able to read
43:13
Speaker 1: my emotions and my feelings because in jail, I felt
43:16
Speaker 1: like I couldn't show no weakness. That's how it was
43:19
Speaker 1: in prison. If you showed like the people in prison,
43:23
Speaker 1: there's a lot of predators in there, and if they
43:26
Speaker 1: sense any type of fear, that's when they're coming for you.
43:29
Speaker 1: That's just how it is. It's no other way. It's
43:32
Speaker 1: a savage life in prison. I love this guy, Myron
43:35
Speaker 1: Belldoc so much that I couldn't help but to break down,
43:39
Speaker 1: you understand. And I was in the yard with hundreds
43:42
Speaker 1: of men, you understand, And that would be the last
43:45
Speaker 1: place that I would want to break down, because here
43:48
Speaker 1: I am with all of the wolves and stuff like that,
43:51
Speaker 1: and I'm in the middle of that, and I'm breaking down.
43:54
Speaker 1: So I was overcome by emotions when I lost mym and.
43:57
Speaker 6: Actually I remember you you shouted your shoulder. I just
44:00
Speaker 6: had a loss in the family, had a lost in
44:02
Speaker 6: the family, so that nobody with exactly.
44:06
Speaker 1: Also, Myron is the one that gave me the tenacity
44:10
Speaker 1: and the fortitude in order to push on. When I
44:13
Speaker 1: took you to the incident when Myron was working on
44:16
Speaker 1: my case at eight PM, and I started to read
44:19
Speaker 1: up on everything about Myron. You know, Myron was a
44:23
Speaker 1: guy that just didn't give up, period, you know. And
44:27
Speaker 1: I put his pictures up and like a mural of
44:29
Speaker 1: Myron and the cell that I was in, and his
44:33
Speaker 1: spirit just came to me, like you gotta keep pushing,
44:37
Speaker 1: don't give up, be a fighter. And Myron actually fought
44:41
Speaker 1: for my life while he was fighting for his own.
44:45
Speaker 1: So I wasn't gonna get in a situation. Okay, now
44:50
Speaker 1: I lost my top guy and just lay down and
44:54
Speaker 1: just because that's something that I felt that he would
44:56
Speaker 1: never do, so he kind of like put the tenat
45:00
Speaker 1: and me to just continue to fight.
45:02
Speaker 4: Cal, can you just take us through how you were
45:04
Speaker 4: able to get your conviction reversed.
45:07
Speaker 1: When I went to the supply my arm second four
45:11
Speaker 1: forty and they entertained the evidence that substantiated that Dwight
45:15
Speaker 1: Robinson actually committed a crime with the Clark sisters.
45:19
Speaker 6: Just to expand briefly, it's a dramatic moment. And Cal
45:24
Speaker 6: had always said, you know, there were a lot of
45:26
Speaker 6: people there that night, the night of the shooting, and
45:28
Speaker 6: the scene had never been canvas. Well, you know, the
45:32
Speaker 6: cops did go door to door and they knock on
45:34
Speaker 6: the door of the Clark sisters, kimber Leah and Nikiah Clark,
45:40
Speaker 6: and they don't want to get involved. These are the
45:43
Speaker 6: two eyewitnesses to the crime, to the murder. But the
45:47
Speaker 6: older sister says, no, we heard shots, that's it, and
45:50
Speaker 6: that's what's in the police report.
45:52
Speaker 2: And why.
45:53
Speaker 6: Well, years later I asked them they didn't want it
45:56
Speaker 6: was a block full of drugs and murder, they're not
45:58
Speaker 6: going to come farar. Two decades later, through a series
46:03
Speaker 6: of circumstances, they resurface. They're in North Carolina, and now
46:09
Speaker 6: they find out that cow was convicted. They didn't know
46:12
Speaker 6: that they had moved away like a year or so
46:15
Speaker 6: after the murders. They find out, and their kind of heartbroken,
46:19
Speaker 6: and frankly, the younger one, who is the one on
46:21
Speaker 6: the street twenty feet away, she feels guilty. She feels
46:25
Speaker 6: guilty that she hasn't come forward and that this man,
46:28
Speaker 6: Calvin Buari, is in prison for something she knows he
46:31
Speaker 6: didn't do. So there's this dramatic moment when they walk
46:35
Speaker 6: into court, and particularly the younger one walks into court
46:39
Speaker 6: and I remember the assistant prosecutor tried to pick.
46:44
Speaker 2: Her apart and rattle her.
46:45
Speaker 6: Okay, it's the DA's job, and she is fiery. She's
46:50
Speaker 6: got this nickname Evelina because when she gets challenged and pushed,
46:55
Speaker 6: there's this kind of fierce character that lives inside of
46:58
Speaker 6: her that comes out out on the stand.
47:01
Speaker 1: And thank God for that.
47:03
Speaker 2: And there's this.
47:04
Speaker 6: Moment because we have the whole courtroom micd and we
47:06
Speaker 6: have a mic right up near the witness stand and
47:09
Speaker 6: you can't hear it in the courtroom, but we picked
47:12
Speaker 6: up where the it'sistant district attorney is really prodding her,
47:17
Speaker 6: and under her breath, eviliness.
47:18
Speaker 1: Says that bit.
47:22
Speaker 6: And then she returns fire and you know she doesn't
47:25
Speaker 6: give and she says, you know, I saw who did
47:29
Speaker 6: it and it wasn't Calvin barn There you go.
47:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I wanted to spend on that too, And
47:34
Speaker 1: you know that was so grateful for me too, because
47:37
Speaker 1: I always knew that after my first initial four forty
47:41
Speaker 1: when the witnesses that actually came back who lied that
47:44
Speaker 1: were criminals. You know, I knew what type of games
47:47
Speaker 1: that these prosecutors play with the detectives. And I was
47:50
Speaker 1: always adamant on Steve, listen, I want these witnesses this
47:54
Speaker 1: time to have attorneys like I was not going to
47:56
Speaker 1: allow what happened to me previously happened to me again.
48:00
Speaker 1: But it was it was overwhelming that the personality in
48:05
Speaker 1: the spirit of this witness, because that is the very
48:08
Speaker 1: type of witness that I needed to stand up against
48:12
Speaker 1: these type of tactics, you understand, And I just want
48:16
Speaker 1: to say too, man, when you when you believe in
48:18
Speaker 1: something stand for it. If you feel something is wrong,
48:21
Speaker 1: stand for it. And I'm happy that she stood. She
48:24
Speaker 1: stood up and she stood firm.
48:26
Speaker 6: Yeah, and the cops did go to her. She was unfortunately,
48:30
Speaker 6: she was in a shelter for abused women and the
48:33
Speaker 6: cops showed up, and that caused a lot of problems
48:35
Speaker 6: in her in her life. But you know, Cal was
48:38
Speaker 6: also fortunate. He got another attorney warrior, a guy named
48:42
Speaker 6: Oscar Mitchellan who really in that courtroom I think helped
48:47
Speaker 6: her tell her story and beat back the assistant DA
48:52
Speaker 6: when she tried to replay the nineteen nineties and said
48:56
Speaker 6: Cal's a bad dude. He was a drug dealer who
48:58
Speaker 6: strolled around and been cut. But you know it was true.
49:03
Speaker 6: That's not what he was on trial for. He wasn't
49:05
Speaker 6: on trial for being a wealthy drug dealer. And it
49:10
Speaker 6: was Michellan who pointed it out. And Nikki who gets
49:14
Speaker 6: on the stand and fires back.
49:17
Speaker 2: Who is the real killer?
49:19
Speaker 6: Who is the person who did the grind for Rich
49:21
Speaker 6: Coal's servant time the.
49:23
Speaker 1: Tactics were utilized on the key and KIMBERLEA Clark, she
49:28
Speaker 1: was in the shelter at the time, and when you
49:31
Speaker 1: were in a shelter, you need some place to stay.
49:33
Speaker 1: They went there and made it seem as though she
49:37
Speaker 1: was being looked into for a double homicide. You know
49:40
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. And these are the tactics that these
49:42
Speaker 1: guys employed to make, you know, life hell for a
49:46
Speaker 1: person that just want to fail the truth, you understand.
49:49
Speaker 1: And she got kicked out of the shelter. She got
49:53
Speaker 1: into an abusive relationship after I But like I said,
49:56
Speaker 1: I was so proud they had a personality that she
49:59
Speaker 1: stud up because normally with you know, average people, they're
50:04
Speaker 1: not going to want to be bothered period. They're gonna
50:07
Speaker 1: care more about their personal situation than wanting to help
50:11
Speaker 1: somebody else that you know, Okay, I want to help them,
50:15
Speaker 1: but I don't want to go through the headaches that
50:16
Speaker 1: I'm going through in my personal life. Let me leave
50:19
Speaker 1: that alone. That's what the person doing. And I'm so
50:22
Speaker 1: proud that this woman stood up.
50:24
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, what's the question you hear today, what's
50:27
Speaker 6: the upside for me?
50:29
Speaker 2: There's no upside for her, but.
50:30
Speaker 4: Oh John, she stood up.
50:32
Speaker 1: Yeah.
50:33
Speaker 4: We end up two thousand and seventeen in Bronx State
50:38
Speaker 4: Supreme Court. Yes, and that's the day you had been
50:42
Speaker 4: waiting for since the early nineties. Absolutely, and tell me
50:46
Speaker 4: about that. Can you take us back to that day.
50:49
Speaker 1: When the judge vacated the conviction. I had my Ron
50:54
Speaker 1: picture in front of me. I had an actual Innocent
50:57
Speaker 1: magazine that came out on time. And before that, the
51:01
Speaker 1: White Robinson was supposed to come in. They couldn't produce
51:05
Speaker 1: the White Robinson. And then when I went back to court,
51:10
Speaker 1: I just kept my eyes and myself fixated on in
51:16
Speaker 1: God we trust. And like I said, I'm a firm
51:18
Speaker 1: believer in God, so that is my number one attorney,
51:22
Speaker 1: and I believe that the right thing was going to
51:25
Speaker 1: be done. And actually that's what happened and.
51:28
Speaker 4: That moment, so it was Judge Eugene Oliver Jor And
51:35
Speaker 4: we're talking about State Supreme Court. This is a big deal, right,
51:40
Speaker 4: I mean, And how did that feel? After decades of
51:46
Speaker 4: fighting and trying to get people to listen, to have
51:48
Speaker 4: a man in that position vacate your conviction.
51:55
Speaker 1: It didn't really hit me at first. I think when
51:58
Speaker 1: I went back to the bullpen, then it really really
52:03
Speaker 1: like really just started to sink in. Like I made it,
52:07
Speaker 1: you know, I made it. But yeah, I'm going home,
52:11
Speaker 1: and I got hit with another hurdle I was I
52:16
Speaker 1: had to go back to the facility that I was
52:19
Speaker 1: in and stay for the weekend. And those two days
52:22
Speaker 1: were the longest two days than the twenty two years
52:25
Speaker 1: that I did in prison, because I didn't sleep and
52:28
Speaker 1: it was just elate, and I really felt kind of
52:32
Speaker 1: nervous because you know, you get a lot of hateration
52:35
Speaker 1: in prison, and I was kind of surprised that the
52:39
Speaker 1: people actually were more happy than upset. Yeah. So then
52:45
Speaker 1: I got the day where I came home, which was
52:47
Speaker 1: May eighth, which is tomorrow. That's my second birthday, my rebirthday,
52:52
Speaker 1: and it was sur real. I'm still looking at it.
52:57
Speaker 1: And the nice day that we had a couple days ago,
53:00
Speaker 1: I stayed out till I think four in the morning,
53:03
Speaker 1: just enjoying the breeze. When I first came home, my
53:06
Speaker 1: goal wasn't just to come home. My goal was to
53:09
Speaker 1: come home and also build a legitimate entrepreneurial life for myself.
53:15
Speaker 1: So I had goals out of side of just coming home,
53:19
Speaker 1: you understand. So even to this day, I'm still enjoying
53:24
Speaker 1: the little things and it's just still hit me because
53:27
Speaker 1: I ain't give myself a chance to breathe, you know, no,
53:30
Speaker 1: And let's talk.
53:30
Speaker 4: About that because three hundred and sixty four days as
53:33
Speaker 4: recording this podcast, as we're sitting here now, you haven't
53:36
Speaker 4: even been out a year, and what you've got going
53:39
Speaker 4: on is going to make a lot of people feel like, Wow,
53:43
Speaker 4: this is crazy. I mean, you've got multiple businesses that
53:46
Speaker 4: you started, right.
53:47
Speaker 1: Yes, I have a van company that goes to prisons's
53:51
Speaker 1: number one van company by the way, you know in
53:53
Speaker 1: New York State, where I had started a new concept
53:57
Speaker 1: that I felt like when I was in prison, a
53:59
Speaker 1: lot of my family members came to visit me, and
54:02
Speaker 1: a lot of the van service they had the old
54:05
Speaker 1: Yankee vans and they wasn't clean, and they were decrepit,
54:09
Speaker 1: and you know, regardless of what their family members wanted
54:12
Speaker 1: to see their loved ones that weren't concerrated. So they
54:15
Speaker 1: dealt with it. And I felt like our family members
54:19
Speaker 1: deserved the same quality service that a regular civilian to
54:24
Speaker 1: get out in the street. So I started the concept
54:28
Speaker 1: of the uber like prison visit services called Riders. Van
54:32
Speaker 1: Service is spelled ry d e r Z Van Service
54:37
Speaker 1: and my numbers eight four five two O four five
54:40
Speaker 1: nine three zero.
54:41
Speaker 4: And you service how many prisons in New York State?
54:43
Speaker 1: I serviced the Downstate area. Right now, I'm serving ten facilities.
54:48
Speaker 1: I'm going to Downstate sing Sing, she Wonga, Sullivan, Walkkill, Woodburn,
54:54
Speaker 1: green Haven, what else the majorities of the facility that
55:00
Speaker 1: are close to New York At the present time, I'm
55:03
Speaker 1: moving out further. We're supposed to be getting a bigger
55:07
Speaker 1: bus to go to Elmira, Comstock or Burned and a
55:11
Speaker 1: further facilities up where I'm in the process of doing
55:14
Speaker 1: that as I speak, and things are picking up. We're
55:17
Speaker 1: doing it with the van service for the prisons to
55:21
Speaker 1: show you know how important implementing family ties are, because
55:25
Speaker 1: they had done statistics that shows that individuals when they're
55:29
Speaker 1: incarcerated and they loved ones check for them, they have
55:32
Speaker 1: a lower rate of reciticism when they come home. And
55:35
Speaker 1: I also plan to have a van go to the
55:39
Speaker 1: female facility and Beacon. I think that is for free,
55:44
Speaker 1: and I want to be able to give back to
55:46
Speaker 1: the female facilities because I feel like they don't get
55:49
Speaker 1: as much visits as the males do and they have
55:52
Speaker 1: kids and stuff like that, so things are probably much
55:56
Speaker 1: harder and I want to be able to put it
55:58
Speaker 1: in rotation. Where's that I could go through the whole
56:01
Speaker 1: facility female facility and give each one of them female
56:06
Speaker 1: females a visit. But I want to find a social worker.
56:09
Speaker 1: It's a mediary just in case they need somebody to
56:12
Speaker 1: transport their kids to be able to go see their
56:15
Speaker 1: loved ones, because I know that may be a barrier
56:18
Speaker 1: as well because of the age of the child and
56:20
Speaker 1: stuff like that. But that's another way that I plan
56:24
Speaker 1: to give back.
56:24
Speaker 4: So you got the service, which is it's great there
56:27
Speaker 4: you are doing good while you're doing good and really
56:30
Speaker 4: making life better for those people who are able to
56:33
Speaker 4: now visit their loved ones that wouldn't be able to otherwise.
56:36
Speaker 4: And we know what a difference that makes to people
56:38
Speaker 4: on the inside.
56:39
Speaker 1: I think that one of the main reasons that I
56:41
Speaker 1: wanted to do that business is because I never wanted
56:44
Speaker 1: to allow myself to forget about where I came from,
56:47
Speaker 1: and by not forgetting that will constantly keep me away
56:52
Speaker 1: from doing anything that will put me back in that place.
56:56
Speaker 1: So I want to constantly be reminded of that, and
56:59
Speaker 1: that's how I do it.
57:01
Speaker 4: Yeah, Well, I think your future looks really bright. I mean,
57:05
Speaker 4: you are obviously a very smart and capable and entrepreneurial guy,
57:10
Speaker 4: and you know, reapplying your skills and the way that
57:13
Speaker 4: you are is extremely admirable, and I know you're going
57:16
Speaker 4: to be a big success, and I mean, I'm looking
57:18
Speaker 4: forward to watching you. I know we were speaking earlier,
57:21
Speaker 4: we were talking about some innocent people that you left behind,
57:25
Speaker 4: and I want to try to bring attention to those cases.
57:28
Speaker 4: And it's entirely possible that by highlighting these innocent people
57:32
Speaker 4: that you left behind that you care so much about,
57:35
Speaker 4: we may be able to affect some change in their cases.
57:39
Speaker 4: So do you want to just talk about that briefly.
57:41
Speaker 1: I'll start off with some of the brothers that I
57:44
Speaker 1: know about case that I've just left in green Haven,
57:47
Speaker 1: that we were actually working on our cases together. That's
57:51
Speaker 1: why I'm so much familiar with their facts. You've got
57:54
Speaker 1: a guy named Nelson Cruz that's currently in green Haven
57:58
Speaker 1: who was actually in a and they did a New
58:01
Speaker 1: York Times article on him. He was actually caught up
58:04
Speaker 1: in the Lewis scar Seller situation and he just recently
58:09
Speaker 1: got denied on his full forty and I believe in
58:13
Speaker 1: his innocence. There's another guy named Paul Clark that actually
58:17
Speaker 1: has almost forty years in that was arrested by the
58:21
Speaker 1: mafia cops. So Paul Clark is one. He's currently at
58:25
Speaker 1: green Haven facility. And you know, you have another young
58:29
Speaker 1: brother that I met named Kyrie Frye who's also at
58:32
Speaker 1: green Haven and Anthony Reid. But just recently me and
58:36
Speaker 1: Meek Mills was in correspondence with each other and he
58:39
Speaker 1: just sent me the information of a person that he
58:42
Speaker 1: was inconcerated within Chester at the time. This brother has
58:47
Speaker 1: in twenty six years in prison and the only reason
58:50
Speaker 1: that he's currently there. His name is Eric Riddick. You
58:54
Speaker 1: can look up Eric Ridick. He's in Pennsylvania and Chester,
58:57
Speaker 1: PA and the penitentiary. And this brother is actually innocent,
59:02
Speaker 1: and the only reason he's still in conserrated is because
59:05
Speaker 1: a procedural situation whereas that you have to have evidence
59:10
Speaker 1: in at a certain time, and if you don't have
59:14
Speaker 1: actual innocent evidence. By the way, you know, he has
59:17
Speaker 1: evidence that proves his innocent, and he has expert evidence
59:21
Speaker 1: that proves his innocence. It's just appalling that he's still
59:24
Speaker 1: in prison after twenty six years and this brother needs
59:27
Speaker 1: to be free.
59:28
Speaker 4: So we will post the names of all those individuals
59:31
Speaker 4: that Cal just highlighted on the website. Get involved and
59:35
Speaker 4: maybe we can together help some of these people get justice.
59:40
Speaker 4: So we have a tradition here on wrongful Conviction, which
59:44
Speaker 4: is that at the end of the show, I like
59:47
Speaker 4: to turn the microphone over to you. I do what
59:50
Speaker 4: I don't do very well, which is that I stopped
59:52
Speaker 4: talking and just let you share any final thoughts that
59:56
Speaker 4: you have, and Steve, I'm going to start with you
1:00:00
Speaker 4: so that we can have Cal be our cleanup hitter here.
1:00:03
Speaker 4: So Steve Fishman, any final thoughts.
1:00:07
Speaker 2: Well, first off, thanks for having me.
1:00:10
Speaker 6: It's an incredibly important issue and I spent a lot
1:00:13
Speaker 6: of time on it, actually sometimes bit against my will,
1:00:16
Speaker 6: but you know, Cal being relentless whichever I could never
1:00:22
Speaker 6: say no, even if I wasn't always saying yes. But
1:00:25
Speaker 6: Empire on Blood was really a work of passion and
1:00:29
Speaker 6: it tells Cal's story, and I think what you get
1:00:32
Speaker 6: from it that you don't often get is you you
1:00:35
Speaker 6: get the thinking and the thoughts and feelings of the
1:00:40
Speaker 6: prosecutor of Dwight Robinson, who not convicted but Stan's accused
1:00:46
Speaker 6: by eyewitness of having done this murder of the detective
1:00:50
Speaker 6: who talked Dwight Robinson out of his confession. So you
1:00:55
Speaker 6: really end up with a sense of the criminal justice system.
1:00:59
Speaker 6: And I guess the last thing I'd say is, you know, yeah,
1:01:02
Speaker 6: I kind of took a journey with Cal and sometimes
1:01:06
Speaker 6: I'm giving some credit for having pushed his case forward,
1:01:10
Speaker 6: but you know, really all credit to Cal. I just
1:01:14
Speaker 6: think the kind of discipline and persistence in the face
1:01:20
Speaker 6: of enormous disappointment that would have not only disheartened people,
1:01:25
Speaker 6: but I think broken most people. I couldn't have persisted.
1:01:29
Speaker 6: I mean, that kind of instinct and ability is very
1:01:35
Speaker 6: very rare, whether you're talking to people on the outside
1:01:39
Speaker 6: or people on the inside. So you know, all credit
1:01:42
Speaker 6: to Cal for realizing is the beginning of his future.
1:01:47
Speaker 4: And now over to you, Calvin Bari, what do you
1:01:50
Speaker 4: got for us?
1:01:51
Speaker 1: I mean, I want to thank Steve for saying that,
1:01:53
Speaker 1: because that means a lot to me because he didn't
1:01:56
Speaker 1: have to get involved with my case but my diligence
1:02:01
Speaker 1: and I think that, you know, he still he wanted
1:02:04
Speaker 1: to do the right thing, and it's good that we
1:02:06
Speaker 1: have people like that. Whether you're a stranger or a
1:02:09
Speaker 1: friend or not. It's just that I feel like people
1:02:13
Speaker 1: are waking up and they want the right things to
1:02:15
Speaker 1: be done. I think that my last words is going
1:02:19
Speaker 1: to be like what Meek Mill said, It's all about
1:02:21
Speaker 1: justice reform so these type of things don't happen to
1:02:25
Speaker 1: other individuals. I hope that I'm an example to the
1:02:29
Speaker 1: people that these things do occur, and we just have
1:02:33
Speaker 1: to do something so they won't reoccur again. That's basically
1:02:37
Speaker 1: what I have to say.
1:02:39
Speaker 4: Well, now I just want to thank the audience for
1:02:43
Speaker 4: tuning in and listening. This has been an amazing journey,
1:02:47
Speaker 4: and thanks again to Steve Fishman and Calaboari for being
1:02:51
Speaker 4: a part of the show.
1:02:52
Speaker 1: Thank you Jason.
1:02:53
Speaker 4: Thank you Jason, don't forget to give us a fantastic review.
1:03:02
Speaker 4: Wherever you get your podcasts, it really helps. And I'm
1:03:06
Speaker 4: a proud donor to the Enniscence Project, and I really
1:03:09
Speaker 4: hope you'll join me in supporting this very important cause
1:03:12
Speaker 4: and helping to prevent future wrongful convictions. Go to Innocenceproject
1:03:16
Speaker 4: dot org to learn how to donate and get involved.
1:03:19
Speaker 4: I'd like to thank our production team, Connor Hall and
1:03:22
Speaker 4: Kevin wartis. The music in the show is by three
1:03:25
Speaker 4: time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow
1:03:28
Speaker 4: us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction and on Facebook at
1:03:32
Speaker 4: Wrongful Conviction Podcast. Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flahm is a
1:03:36
Speaker 4: production of Lava for Good Podcasts and association with Signal
1:03:39
Speaker 4: Company Number one