Transcript

#18 Sven · Heavyweight

0:02
Speaker 1: Hello Bie. You know it's something that we don't do
0:06
Speaker 1: very often. I'm realizing on.
0:11
Speaker 2: Because ye.
0:15
Speaker 1: I'm asking if I can use the personal pronoun with her,
0:18
Speaker 1: if that would be okay. I don't want to be presumptuous.
0:22
Speaker 1: You're like in grade four again, So your French never evolved.
0:25
Speaker 1: If I ever had a girl, you know what I
0:27
Speaker 1: would name her?
0:27
Speaker 2: What?
0:28
Speaker 1: Pooh bell? That's that's French for garbage.
0:33
Speaker 2: Oh god.
0:33
Speaker 1: If there was a boy twin, you know what i'd
0:35
Speaker 1: call him? What would you call him? Moutard? That's French
0:38
Speaker 1: for mustard. Moutard and pooh bell.
0:42
Speaker 2: Garbage and mustard.
0:44
Speaker 1: We kind of go together, like garbage and mustard. Yep,
0:48
Speaker 1: I'm the garbage from Gimblet Media. I'm Jonathan Goldstein and
0:59
Speaker 1: this is Heavyweight Today's episode Sven. In two thousand and eight,
1:15
Speaker 1: Sven received a letter for jury duty.
1:18
Speaker 2: You know, lots of.
1:19
Speaker 3: People would say, oh, this is such a boring thing.
1:21
Speaker 3: Oh no, I hope I don't get jury duty. But
1:23
Speaker 3: I was more curious and interested in like the process,
1:27
Speaker 3: and you know, I liked watching stuff like Law and
1:30
Speaker 3: Order and other things like that.
1:33
Speaker 1: SVU Criminal Intent, svenn liked them all. He was a
1:36
Speaker 1: software developer, newly married, and he and his wife had
1:40
Speaker 1: just bought a new house, his first. The house had
1:43
Speaker 1: a flagpole in the front and a hammock out back.
1:46
Speaker 1: After work, he'd come home, relax on the couch and
1:49
Speaker 1: watches legal dramas. Jury Duty was going to offer an
1:52
Speaker 1: inside view of the TV shows he loved.
1:55
Speaker 3: I he wasn't fooled into thinking it was some weird,
1:57
Speaker 3: glamorous thing like that. But uh, I thought jury's were interesting,
2:04
Speaker 3: the idea of, you know, judging your peers right or wrong.
2:08
Speaker 3: I've all sort of had a sense of civic responsibility.
2:12
Speaker 1: In my book, the only thing that makes responsibility less
2:16
Speaker 1: appealing is adding the word civic to it. Paying your taxes,
2:20
Speaker 1: appearing before his zoning board not for me. Like most,
2:25
Speaker 1: when I appeared for Jury duty, I prayed for dismissal,
2:28
Speaker 1: not spend. Though during the selection process he engaged with
2:32
Speaker 1: the questions the lawyers posed as best he could, and
2:35
Speaker 1: when he was asked how he felt about capital punishment,
2:37
Speaker 1: he answered candidly.
2:39
Speaker 3: I believe bad people should be punished in that way
2:41
Speaker 3: or could be punished in that way, and so I
2:44
Speaker 3: wouldn't say I was strongly for it, but I wasn't
2:46
Speaker 3: against it, and consequently I got on the jury.
2:51
Speaker 1: The case was the State of Texas versus Paul David's Story.
2:55
Speaker 1: Story was a twenty two year old accused of the
2:57
Speaker 1: murder of Jonas Cherry, the manager of a mini golf
3:00
Speaker 1: course in Hearst, Texas. Story and an accomplice forced Cherry
3:04
Speaker 1: into the back office, made him unlock the safe and
3:07
Speaker 1: put the money a few hundred dollars in a bag,
3:10
Speaker 1: and then they shot him multiple times. Story's trial lasted
3:15
Speaker 1: two weeks and would have felt familiar to anyone who
3:18
Speaker 1: watches TV courtroom dramas. There were lawyers with thick minders
3:21
Speaker 1: full of bilistics reports and medical examinations. Character witnesses were called,
3:26
Speaker 1: and disturbing photographs of the victim's body were shown. The
3:29
Speaker 1: only thing missing was any suspense about the verdict.
3:32
Speaker 3: There was no doubt that he was guilty of murder
3:38
Speaker 3: and robbery, and so really, as a jury, all we
3:41
Speaker 3: had to worry about was sentencing.
3:44
Speaker 1: The jury had to decide between life imprisonment or the
3:46
Speaker 1: death penalty. It seemed the victim's family knew what they
3:50
Speaker 1: wanted it should go without saying the prosecutor announced his
3:54
Speaker 1: Fen and the other jurors that all of Jonas's family
3:57
Speaker 1: and everyone who loved him believed the death penalty is appropriate.
4:01
Speaker 1: The prosecutor asked the jurors to sentence Paul's story to death.
4:05
Speaker 1: The instruction stated that for the death penalty to be imposed,
4:08
Speaker 1: the jurors must judge three things to be true. That
4:11
Speaker 1: Paul's story was guilty, That there were no mitigating circumstances
4:15
Speaker 1: like say, mental illness or provocation. And lastly, that story
4:19
Speaker 1: posed a future threat to his community.
4:21
Speaker 2: That was the one I had issue with.
4:25
Speaker 3: I seriously doubted that he would be a continuing threat
4:30
Speaker 3: to the prison community.
4:33
Speaker 1: And what was it about Paul's story that made you
4:37
Speaker 1: feel like you just didn't see him as a continued threat?
4:42
Speaker 2: A couple of things.
4:44
Speaker 1: His testimony, the young man's Fen saw in the courtroom
4:48
Speaker 1: appeared confused, in over his head, and remorseful. This was
4:51
Speaker 1: his first offense, and some of the evidence suggested that
4:54
Speaker 1: it was Story's accomplice who'd been the mastermind behind the
4:57
Speaker 1: horrible crime, as well as the one who'd fired Savin
5:01
Speaker 1: was certain that Paul's story should be punished, but he
5:03
Speaker 1: didn't think he should be put to death.
5:05
Speaker 3: But in the chambers there was a very different feel.
5:15
Speaker 3: Everyone else was in favor of the death penalty, and
5:20
Speaker 3: so faced with you know, almost a dozen other people
5:23
Speaker 3: who already felt strongly, I didn't think I could convince
5:31
Speaker 3: anyone that of what I was thinking. I'll be honest,
5:35
Speaker 3: I was scared.
5:37
Speaker 1: At twenty seven, Savan was the youngest juror by about
5:40
Speaker 1: ten years, and he was the kind of guy who
5:42
Speaker 1: avoided speaking up at all costs. At home, if his
5:45
Speaker 1: neighbor parked in his space, he let it go. At
5:48
Speaker 1: the office, if his boss told him to do something,
5:51
Speaker 1: even if he disagreed, he did it without question. In
5:55
Speaker 1: other words, even though he'd been looking forward to being
5:57
Speaker 1: a juror, when he found himself in the jury, Sven
6:01
Speaker 1: wasn't exactly Henry Fonda and twelve angry men. The way
6:05
Speaker 1: he understood it, the jurors had to reach unanimous decision,
6:09
Speaker 1: and the idea of swaying eleven strangers over to his
6:12
Speaker 1: way of thinking seemed impossible. He was also afraid that
6:16
Speaker 1: if he opposed the group, he would result in a
6:18
Speaker 1: hung jury. In a mistrial, they'd have to start the
6:20
Speaker 1: whole process over again with a new jury everyone would
6:24
Speaker 1: be mad at him, so Sven said nothing. An hour
6:28
Speaker 1: and a half later, Paul's story was sentenced to death
6:32
Speaker 1: by lethal injection.
6:35
Speaker 3: It was hard to look at him during the sentence.
6:41
Speaker 3: We sat waiting for the judge to ask us, you know,
6:45
Speaker 3: what's the sentencing, and everyone was really tense. And the
6:48
Speaker 3: woman next to me, another juror, began crying. She's trying
6:53
Speaker 3: to hide it, you know. And I gave him my
6:57
Speaker 3: handkerchief and she just wept. Then the foreman announced the verdict,
7:05
Speaker 3: and I think his mother cried out. They had an
7:10
Speaker 3: exit for us to go through after we collected our things,
7:14
Speaker 3: and we were out of that courtroom fast.
7:20
Speaker 2: It felt like a mistake right away.
7:23
Speaker 1: Svan went over to his parents' house, where he had
7:25
Speaker 1: dinner and drank scotch with his dad. He told his
7:28
Speaker 1: family about the trial, and then he went home, where
7:31
Speaker 1: he had more to drink before bed.
7:33
Speaker 2: And then that was that. Then it was over.
7:36
Speaker 3: And I went on with my life, or at least
7:41
Speaker 3: he tried to.
7:42
Speaker 2: But what do you do with these feelings? I was
7:48
Speaker 2: just stuck.
7:49
Speaker 3: I felt massive amounts of regret. I felt, you know,
7:53
Speaker 3: I felt guilty, you know, sending someone to death row.
8:00
Speaker 1: When you think about the people a capital murder trial effects,
8:03
Speaker 1: you think of the victims, their loved ones, the accused
8:06
Speaker 1: and their families and what they're going through. You don't
8:09
Speaker 1: usually think about what it does to the jurors. But
8:12
Speaker 1: for Spen, the trial wasn't something he could put behind
8:15
Speaker 1: him at the crack of a gavel. In the days
8:17
Speaker 1: and weeks after the verdict, he read every article about
8:20
Speaker 1: the case he could find, but the more he read,
8:23
Speaker 1: the more shame he felt. So eventually he just stopped.
8:27
Speaker 2: I realized it wasn't really healthy.
8:30
Speaker 1: At the time. Spenn was a regular drinker, and.
8:32
Speaker 2: It only got worse after the trial. But got a
8:35
Speaker 2: lot worse after the trial.
8:37
Speaker 1: He was drinking more beginning as soon as he got
8:39
Speaker 1: home from work and spending more days hung over. His
8:42
Speaker 1: wife didn't understand what was going on.
8:45
Speaker 3: It may have contributed to my divorce, which was the
8:49
Speaker 3: following year.
8:51
Speaker 1: A year after the trial and Sveen's life had changed.
8:54
Speaker 1: The new house with the hammock and the flagpole was
8:56
Speaker 1: sold and Spen moved out of Texas. Sven settled in Olympia,
9:08
Speaker 1: Washington to start his life over. He found an apartment
9:11
Speaker 1: for himself and his cat Niku, but he couldn't shake
9:14
Speaker 1: his memories of the trial. When a friend bought a
9:17
Speaker 1: second hand silver Nissan, Sven couldn't stop thinking about how
9:20
Speaker 1: that was the same car as the victim, Jonas Cherry
9:22
Speaker 1: had driven. When addressing coworkers, the name Jonas would accidentally
9:27
Speaker 1: slip from Spen's lips, and Paul's Story, who still was
9:30
Speaker 1: on death row, was never far from Sveen's mind. He
9:34
Speaker 1: tried to escape through alcohol, but it didn't free him
9:37
Speaker 1: from his shame. Sometimes after a night out drinking, he'd
9:41
Speaker 1: return to a Facebook page Paul Story's mother had made
9:44
Speaker 1: for Paul. One mother had already lost her son, and
9:47
Speaker 1: now because Fenn had been too afraid to speak up,
9:51
Speaker 1: another mother was going to as well.
9:53
Speaker 3: I'm not trying to excuse his crime. It was terrible,
9:57
Speaker 3: but to Sunday guide it doath for anyon?
10:00
Speaker 2: Is it all that?
10:01
Speaker 3: Just the presence in your mind, the sort of recurring
10:08
Speaker 3: thoughts about it?
10:10
Speaker 2: Can that go away?
10:13
Speaker 1: For all the bad rapid gets Shame offers a certain safety.
10:17
Speaker 1: It provides a comfortable hole to hide in away from
10:20
Speaker 1: the judgment of others, but it can also lead to
10:23
Speaker 1: isolation and inertia, and for eight years, eight years in
10:28
Speaker 1: which Paul's Story sat on death row awaiting an execution date,
10:31
Speaker 1: Sven barely talked about the trial with anybody. But then,
10:35
Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen, the year after Paul Story's federal appeal
10:39
Speaker 1: had been denied, a reporter writing a series of articles
10:42
Speaker 1: about the judicial system approached Ven about his experience as
10:45
Speaker 1: a juror. Sven was tired of being all alone with
10:48
Speaker 1: his regrets, and so for the first time, he opened
10:52
Speaker 1: up about his feelings. I felt guilty, he told the reporter,
10:56
Speaker 1: and sad and a little helpless. I don't think I
10:59
Speaker 1: made the right call. Sven had hoped that talking about
11:03
Speaker 1: the trial might help, and it did up until the
11:06
Speaker 1: article was published. That was when Spen received an uncomfortable
11:10
Speaker 1: phone call from a lawyer who'd read the article. Sveen
11:13
Speaker 1: was at work, fearing his coworkers might overhear, he took
11:17
Speaker 1: the call outside behind his office building. It was there
11:21
Speaker 1: that he learned that eight years earlier, he'd misunderstood a
11:24
Speaker 1: key part of the jury instructions.
11:27
Speaker 2: I thought incorrectly.
11:30
Speaker 3: Essentially, I believed I would have to convince everyone to
11:36
Speaker 3: choose life imprisonment. When In fact, all I had to
11:42
Speaker 3: do was declined the death penalty, and that's all it
11:48
Speaker 3: would have taken.
11:50
Speaker 1: Preventing the death sentence only required one dissenting vote, a
11:54
Speaker 1: vote Spen could have cast, so there would have been
11:57
Speaker 1: no mistrial, no hungury, and instead of the death penalty,
12:01
Speaker 1: Paul's story would have gotten life in prison without parole.
12:04
Speaker 3: And that would that would have been nice to know
12:08
Speaker 3: I could have changed Oh, I could have let him live.
12:19
Speaker 1: After the article was published, something else happened, something Spenn
12:23
Speaker 1: never expected or wanted. Paul Story's mother, Marilyn, got in touch.
12:28
Speaker 3: She reached out with an email filled with sentiments of forgiveness.
12:34
Speaker 3: She had forgiven me and if I wanted to, I
12:39
Speaker 3: could reach out and talk with her. And knowing that
12:44
Speaker 3: there was that forgiveness, it felt so weird like it.
12:47
Speaker 3: It wasn't something I could completely understand.
12:50
Speaker 1: Forri Sven, it didn't make sense. Why would Marilyn want
12:53
Speaker 1: to speak with him? How could she, of all people,
12:57
Speaker 1: forgive him for something he couldn't forgive himself.
13:00
Speaker 3: I didn't know how to deal with I still kind
13:03
Speaker 3: of don't know how to deal with that.
13:05
Speaker 2: And I couldn't. I couldn't. I couldn't match her message.
13:09
Speaker 2: How do you mean? Well?
13:12
Speaker 3: I wasn't sure how to reply with something as powerful
13:16
Speaker 3: as that.
13:18
Speaker 2: It just floored me. I didn't know what to say.
13:21
Speaker 1: Sven was never able to write Maryland back.
13:25
Speaker 2: I did began a reply, but I didn't.
13:31
Speaker 3: I didn't have the courage to finish or send it.
13:36
Speaker 3: It's just, you know, there's so much pain in there,
13:39
Speaker 3: and I feel like I really wrecked things up.
13:50
Speaker 1: A few months after Spenn received Maryland's email, an execution
13:53
Speaker 1: date was set. The state would put Paul's Story to
13:56
Speaker 1: death on April twelfth of twenty seventeen. But then something
14:00
Speaker 1: unexpected happened. Glenn and Judith Cherry, the parents of the victim,
14:05
Speaker 1: came forward. It seems that at the trial the prosecution
14:09
Speaker 1: had lied. The Cherries, in spite of their son's murder,
14:13
Speaker 1: are and always have been, against capital punishment. In a
14:17
Speaker 1: video they released publicly, Judith Cherry presents a statement which reads,
14:22
Speaker 1: in part, we do not want Paul Story's family, especially
14:25
Speaker 1: a mother, to witness the purposeful execution of their son.
14:29
Speaker 1: They are innocent of his deeds. Based on this testimony,
14:34
Speaker 1: with only five days to spare, Paul Story's execution was postponed.
14:40
Speaker 1: When news of the stay of execution reached Fenn, it
14:43
Speaker 1: felt like a second chance, an opening to finally respond
14:46
Speaker 1: to Marilyn's email. But he didn't. It's now been over
14:50
Speaker 1: two years, he's remarried, doesn't drink anymore, but he still
14:54
Speaker 1: hasn't contacted Marilyn. And so at this point, what do
14:58
Speaker 1: you want?
15:02
Speaker 2: I need to apologize for not.
15:06
Speaker 3: For not doing what I should have done to begin with,
15:08
Speaker 3: for not following my gut, for not trying.
15:17
Speaker 1: Shame leads to inertia, And as even the most casual
15:20
Speaker 1: reader of the fundamentals of physics will tell you, an
15:23
Speaker 1: inert object will remain inert until it is acted upon
15:26
Speaker 1: by an external force. In other words, it takes a
15:30
Speaker 1: little nudge. And who better to supply a little nudge
15:34
Speaker 1: than a little nudge. And so I write Marilyn a letter.
15:39
Speaker 1: I know this is a really sensitive and deeply personal issue.
15:42
Speaker 1: It reads, and I hope I'm not being too forward.
15:45
Speaker 1: I ask Marilyn if she remembers a juror by the
15:47
Speaker 1: name of spen Burger. About a week later, I receive
15:50
Speaker 1: a note back via email. Thank you so much for
15:53
Speaker 1: your letter, Marilyn, writes, I have no ill will toward
15:56
Speaker 1: mister Berger. I have offered on my email address as
15:59
Speaker 1: well as my phone number with no reply. She also
16:03
Speaker 1: forwards me her original email to Fenn, the one she
16:06
Speaker 1: sent two years ago, the one he can't stop thinking
16:08
Speaker 1: about when I read it. I'm expecting a grand gesture
16:12
Speaker 1: of forgiveness, but Marilyn never mentions forgiveness, never even uses
16:17
Speaker 1: the word. Instead, it's just six short sentences in which
16:21
Speaker 1: Marilyn thanks Vin for the article and says she shared
16:23
Speaker 1: it with her son. Her tone's breezy. She ends with,
16:27
Speaker 1: have a great day exclamation mark. I understand That'svenn, consumed
16:32
Speaker 1: by guilt, would read so much into so little. What
16:35
Speaker 1: I don't understand is why Marilyn sent him the email
16:38
Speaker 1: in the first place.
17:03
Speaker 2: I know you're jokingly mentioned breakfast. Oh, I was joking.
17:07
Speaker 2: I have, like I.
17:08
Speaker 1: Have a couple of little things if you get packish
17:11
Speaker 1: at all, some croissant, some of this stuff I don't know,
17:15
Speaker 1: some cookies, yeah, okay. Marylyn lives in Fort Worth, Texas.
17:20
Speaker 1: The two of us meet in a hotel suite downtown,
17:23
Speaker 1: where I can't stop offering her food, but she can't
17:25
Speaker 1: stop refusing.
17:27
Speaker 2: Do you want to have a coffee or cheek?
17:29
Speaker 4: No.
17:30
Speaker 1: Marilyn is tall and stately, with smiling eyes. She's in slacks, boots,
17:34
Speaker 1: and a crop blazer, all in black. She sits on
17:37
Speaker 1: the end of the couch next to an empty armchair
17:40
Speaker 1: and tries to give me a sense of what her
17:41
Speaker 1: life was like before the trial.
17:43
Speaker 5: I was always the life of the party. I mean,
17:45
Speaker 5: I was a joster. Oh make sure you have Marylynd there,
17:48
Speaker 5: because she's gonna keep the party going. I was always
17:51
Speaker 5: kind of the one that everybody went to. People know,
17:54
Speaker 5: you can call me in the middle of the night.
17:56
Speaker 5: You know, if you need somebody to come pick you up,
17:58
Speaker 5: you call Maryland. She'd get up, She'll go do it.
18:01
Speaker 1: Since the trial, Maryland doesn't feel like the same person.
18:05
Speaker 1: But after ten years, her friends and family want her
18:07
Speaker 1: to go back to being the same old Maryland she
18:09
Speaker 1: always was.
18:10
Speaker 5: So it went through a transition of my family not
18:14
Speaker 5: understanding because it's like, Okay, you know, well, why aren't
18:17
Speaker 5: you cheery and happy like you used to? And you
18:20
Speaker 5: got to go on with your life.
18:22
Speaker 1: But this is Maryland's life. Every day she's reckoning with
18:25
Speaker 1: the horror of her son's crime and worrying endlessly about
18:28
Speaker 1: his safety in prison. The thing that's hardest, though, is
18:32
Speaker 1: the way the people closest to her now look upon
18:34
Speaker 1: her son. She says that everyone's past judgment on Paul
18:38
Speaker 1: written him off as worthless and unredeemable, and they blame
18:41
Speaker 1: him for her pain.
18:42
Speaker 5: And I even had a family remember where Paul is
18:45
Speaker 5: the cause of all of this, and that was.
18:50
Speaker 2: Very hurtful.
18:52
Speaker 5: It's like they wanted everything to be okay. But that's
18:56
Speaker 5: my child, and I love him and I'm not going
18:59
Speaker 5: to ever stop fighting for him.
19:02
Speaker 1: Fighting for him meant working with her son's lawyers to
19:04
Speaker 1: change his sentence to life in prison.
19:06
Speaker 5: Paul's appeals more exhausting.
19:09
Speaker 1: It took up all of her time and energy, which
19:12
Speaker 1: affected the hospitality job she worked at for over thirty years.
19:15
Speaker 5: It became extremely hard for me to concentrate at work,
19:20
Speaker 5: and I feel like it cost me my job.
19:23
Speaker 1: After losing her job, Marilyn then lost her house. She
19:26
Speaker 1: was forced to move in with her younger son.
19:29
Speaker 5: So it's kind of like, you know, at my age,
19:30
Speaker 5: where I felt that i'd be getting ready to retire,
19:33
Speaker 5: I'm storing over. So that's a hard thing.
19:46
Speaker 1: Ten years after the trial, and everyone, her friends, her
19:49
Speaker 1: family have all moved on. So when Marilyn reads friend's article,
19:54
Speaker 1: she saw in him someone like her, someone who never
19:57
Speaker 1: gotten past that final day of the trial, and they.
20:00
Speaker 5: Actually gave the sentence, the death penalty. I thought I
20:06
Speaker 5: had died. I thought I had literally died. It didn't
20:10
Speaker 5: even register because I'm just like, what just happened? What
20:16
Speaker 5: have they done? You know? My whole time there, I
20:20
Speaker 5: was just look at the jurors to try to read, Okay,
20:23
Speaker 5: what are they thinking?
20:24
Speaker 2: What are they doing?
20:27
Speaker 5: I wanted them to know if I could only tell
20:30
Speaker 5: them what kind of person he is, And I want
20:33
Speaker 5: people to know, you know, everybody's they're assumed that if
20:36
Speaker 5: you're involved in a hang his crime like that.
20:38
Speaker 2: That you're a monster.
20:39
Speaker 5: But he wasn't a monster.
20:46
Speaker 2: Okay, so he's going to come up.
20:48
Speaker 1: Marilyn and I have been talking for about an hour
20:50
Speaker 1: and a half. When the front desk funds.
20:57
Speaker 5: As the n spin Yes, I'll hope I get that
21:03
Speaker 5: before he gets it.
21:05
Speaker 1: But before we get a chance to practice our fans.
21:08
Speaker 1: Sven is at the door, Jonathan, it's very nice to
21:15
Speaker 1: Marilyn is here Spin Sven lingers in the door of
21:21
Speaker 1: the hotel room. Here, sit down, have a seat over there.
21:25
Speaker 1: He's bespectacled, neatly dressed in a collared shirt and sweater.
21:29
Speaker 1: He looks around and clears his throat.
21:31
Speaker 6: I'm a little nervous.
21:34
Speaker 2: So.
21:35
Speaker 1: The last time Marilyn and s Fan had been in
21:37
Speaker 1: the same room was ten years ago. At the trial,
21:41
Speaker 1: Marilyn was seated behind the bar span sat in the
21:43
Speaker 1: jury box, But today he sits down in the empty
21:47
Speaker 1: armchair beside her. He can't quite bring himself to look
21:50
Speaker 1: at her. As he tells Marilyn what it was like
21:52
Speaker 1: to receive her email, he gazes down at his lap.
21:57
Speaker 3: It was it was very surprising, and I read it
22:02
Speaker 3: and I reread it, and I even.
22:05
Speaker 2: Began several letters that never went anywhere. I didn't know
22:08
Speaker 2: what to say. What do you say about that?
22:10
Speaker 3: I don't want to write a letter that's trying to
22:12
Speaker 3: make me feel better, do you know what I mean?
22:17
Speaker 3: From the moment the vote was cast, I had regret.
22:20
Speaker 3: I thought I am doing the wrong thing. And although
22:26
Speaker 3: it was great hearing that you know you forgave me,
22:30
Speaker 3: I couldn't forgive myself exactly.
22:33
Speaker 2: And I can't even imagine how you must feel.
22:37
Speaker 5: Okay, first of all, I want to say, I don't
22:40
Speaker 5: want you to feel shamed, because you know my son
22:42
Speaker 5: was involved in a crime. He made a wrong choice.
22:49
Speaker 5: And I don't ever want you to feel that you
22:52
Speaker 5: did anything wrong. You did what you felt you had
22:56
Speaker 5: to do at the time, but you came back and
23:01
Speaker 5: for you to come out and for you to say, hey,
23:06
Speaker 5: I made a mistake, you write your wrong.
23:11
Speaker 1: I can tell by Sven's face that he isn't convinced,
23:14
Speaker 1: he doesn't feel like he's righted anything. This is because
23:18
Speaker 1: for years Spen has been avoiding all traces of the case.
23:21
Speaker 1: No googling, no newspapers. He never even read the article
23:25
Speaker 1: he'd been interviewed for. So he doesn't know what Marilynd knows,
23:29
Speaker 1: which is the chain of events that his articles set
23:32
Speaker 1: in motion. The jury instructions for Paul Story's case were
23:40
Speaker 1: written in dense legal ees, and nowhere in their nine
23:43
Speaker 1: pages did they state that a single dissenting vote can
23:46
Speaker 1: prevent the death penalty. In fact, courts in Texas are
23:50
Speaker 1: prohibited from telling jurors that. In theory, that's to encourage
23:54
Speaker 1: them to arrive at a consensus. Well, What it means
23:57
Speaker 1: is Spen's confusion wasn't his fault. For years, legal advocates
24:02
Speaker 1: had wanted to bring a bill before the legislature. They
24:04
Speaker 1: would clarify the instructions, but they needed someone who could say,
24:08
Speaker 1: I would have done things differently if I had understood.
24:12
Speaker 1: Marilyn explains to FN that with him and the things
24:15
Speaker 1: he'd said in the article, they'd finally found that person.
24:18
Speaker 5: There are senitors in the state of Texas who have
24:20
Speaker 5: introduced the bill based on you, to change the way
24:25
Speaker 5: destructions are given to a death ponem.
24:27
Speaker 1: To Jerid, Sven, slumped in his chair, straightens up.
24:31
Speaker 5: Really, you have no idea what sort of impact you had.
24:37
Speaker 3: I don't know anything about that.
24:40
Speaker 5: You were very instrumental.
24:43
Speaker 6: This is I'm shocked.
24:47
Speaker 1: While his eyes have tended to dart around the room,
24:49
Speaker 1: looking at me or down at his hands, right now,
24:52
Speaker 1: Sven is looking directly at Marylyn. She tells him that
24:56
Speaker 1: had he in fact voted against the death penalty at
24:58
Speaker 1: her son's trial, these attempts at reform might never have happened.
25:02
Speaker 5: I'm a firm believer of the things happened for a reason,
25:05
Speaker 5: because this is not just about my son. It's about
25:09
Speaker 5: other mothers sons that are on death row as well.
25:12
Speaker 5: So if this can help any other case, you know,
25:16
Speaker 5: outside of polls, then we've served that purpose. You came forward,
25:22
Speaker 5: so I look at you as my hero.
25:26
Speaker 1: Then physically shrinks from the word hero. It's as though
25:30
Speaker 1: she's placed a large, awkward crown atop his head.
25:33
Speaker 3: Wow, that's not the way i'd considered myself for my
25:39
Speaker 3: actions in any way.
25:40
Speaker 2: I don't feel.
25:41
Speaker 5: That's to me. You are so you know it means
25:46
Speaker 5: a lot.
25:49
Speaker 6: That's a lot to process. I I had no idea
25:53
Speaker 6: you didn't know any of this. No.
25:55
Speaker 2: Oh, the articles.
25:57
Speaker 5: There's a really good one in the Texas Tribute. It's
26:02
Speaker 5: one of the ones. I actually printed it out for you,
26:07
Speaker 5: but I waste Coca Cola on it, so I didn't
26:10
Speaker 5: want to give you an article that was uh, but
26:13
Speaker 5: you should look it up.
26:15
Speaker 2: Oh, this blows my mind.
26:17
Speaker 5: I need to send you some articles here because it's
26:20
Speaker 5: definitely movement.
26:21
Speaker 2: It's definitely movement.
26:23
Speaker 3: Well, I'm sorry, I'm a little at loss for words. Yeah,
26:33
Speaker 3: but walking in here, I didn't I didn't know what
26:35
Speaker 3: to expect, and I was a little nervous. I do
26:41
Speaker 3: feel even just now a little bit of weight taking
26:45
Speaker 3: off my shoulders.
26:49
Speaker 2: This helps, This helps so much, Oh, this helps so much.
27:00
Speaker 1: After all these years, Sven is finally able to accept
27:03
Speaker 1: Marylyn's forgiveness, even if he still isn't ready to forgive himself.
27:09
Speaker 3: It choos me up today that I didn't express a
27:12
Speaker 3: dissenting opinion. I should have spoken up at least. I mean,
27:18
Speaker 3: I didn't think he would be a danger too with
27:20
Speaker 3: the prison community.
27:22
Speaker 2: I didn't see a hardened criminal there.
27:24
Speaker 3: I got the impression of sort of a kid who
27:28
Speaker 3: was in a situation he didn't know how to handle.
27:32
Speaker 3: I saw someone who made a terrible mistake and someone
27:36
Speaker 3: I did not believe would do it again.
27:38
Speaker 1: As Benn speaks, Marylynd's eyes well up now.
27:42
Speaker 5: I kept looking at the jurors and I was like,
27:45
Speaker 5: you know, it has to be somebody owned there that
27:48
Speaker 5: feels and dick and see through all of this, that
27:51
Speaker 5: the prosecutor that's presenting in everything to know that my
27:54
Speaker 5: son is not a monster.
27:55
Speaker 6: No, no, never, I never saw Paul as a monster.
28:00
Speaker 1: After the crime. Marilyn's family never saw her son the
28:03
Speaker 1: same way again. From that moment on, he was nothing
28:06
Speaker 1: more than a murderer, and on the final day of
28:08
Speaker 1: the trial, twelve jurors confirmed that judgment. Her hope had
28:12
Speaker 1: been that maybe someone had seen something else. It wasn't
28:15
Speaker 1: a hope for someone to recognize in her son anything
28:18
Speaker 1: special or good. She just wanted them to see him
28:21
Speaker 1: as something other than a monster.
28:24
Speaker 6: I thank you God, I appreciate that s the trial,
28:26
Speaker 6: I never saw that once.
28:29
Speaker 1: Paul's story is still on death row and Sven still
28:31
Speaker 1: can't reverse the sentence. But in speaking aloud the words
28:35
Speaker 1: that Marilyn's been repeating to herself for so long, Sven's
28:38
Speaker 1: made her feel less alone.
28:41
Speaker 5: You have some of the hurt that I have carried
28:48
Speaker 5: on my heart for the last twelve years. You just
28:51
Speaker 5: lived in it.
28:52
Speaker 2: You have no earthly idea what.
28:54
Speaker 5: That meant to me. It's meant a lot, and for
29:01
Speaker 5: you to say that it is it, it's.
29:11
Speaker 2: It really is my heart.
29:22
Speaker 1: After years of worry over what to say to Marylyn,
29:25
Speaker 1: Sven's finally found the right words.
29:27
Speaker 2: I'm sorry.
29:27
Speaker 6: I never wrote back, that's okay, I totally understood.
29:31
Speaker 2: It's a lot.
29:37
Speaker 1: Since then and Maryland's meeting, a judge made an official
29:40
Speaker 1: recommendation that, based on Glenn and Judith Cherry's testimony, Paul's
29:45
Speaker 1: story sentence be changed to life in prison without parole,
29:49
Speaker 1: though the Court of Criminal Appeals still has to make
29:51
Speaker 1: a final ruling. Stories lawyers are hopeful, and so is Marilyn.
29:56
Speaker 1: As for Sven, After finally responding to Marylyn decided to
30:00
Speaker 1: send a letter of apology to Paul's story. I couldn't
30:04
Speaker 1: find the strength to speak up in the jury room,
30:06
Speaker 1: he wrote, and that is a mistake I will carry forever.
30:11
Speaker 1: Sven has yet to hear anything back.
30:49
Speaker 4: Now that the Fernitures returning to its goodwill home, now
30:59
Speaker 4: that the last month's rand is scheming with the damage
31:04
Speaker 4: to take.
31:05
Speaker 2: This moment to save if we imagine, if.
31:11
Speaker 4: We too felt far.
31:19
Speaker 2: From things accident.
31:26
Speaker 1: Heavyweight is hosted and produced by me Jonathan Goldstein, along
31:29
Speaker 1: with Stevie Lane, Peter Bresnan, and Khalila Holt. The show
31:32
Speaker 1: is edited by Jorge Just, with additional editing by Alex Bloomberg.
31:36
Speaker 1: Special thanks to Emily Condon, Emmanuel Barry, Caitlin Kenny, John,
31:39
Speaker 1: Michael Tuttlegates, Amanda Marzulo, Mike Ware, Emily Follis, Brian Reed,
31:44
Speaker 1: Sean Cole, Diane Wu, Christopher Swetala, Ira Glass and the
31:47
Speaker 1: rest of our friends at This American Life and Jackie Cohen.
31:52
Speaker 1: A very special thanks to Maurice Shamas. If you want
31:55
Speaker 1: to read the original article that Maurice reported with Spen,
31:58
Speaker 1: we're including a link to it on our website. Bobby
32:00
Speaker 1: Lord mixed the episode with music by Christine Fellows, John K. Sampson,
32:04
Speaker 1: Michael Hurst, Blue Dot Sessions, and Bobby Lord. Additional music
32:07
Speaker 1: credits can be found on our website, Gimbletmedia dot com
32:10
Speaker 1: slash Heavyweight. Our theme song is by The Weaker Thans
32:13
Speaker 1: courtesy of Epitaph Records, and our ad music is by
32:15
Speaker 1: Hailey Shaw. Follow us on Twitter at Heavyweight or email
32:19
Speaker 1: us at Heavyweight at gimletmedia dot com. We'll have a
32:22
Speaker 1: special episode next week, special because it was recorded in
32:26
Speaker 1: front of a live studio audience. We'll see you then,