Latest / QUESTION EVERYTHING / How To Love Your Career: with Fran Hauser

Transcript

How To Love Your Career: with Fran Hauser · QUESTION EVERYTHING

0:04
Speaker 1: Big things happen when you're pretty, pretty bold, pretty clever,
0:08
Speaker 1: pretty strong. I'm Danielle Robe and each week my guests
0:12
Speaker 1: and I have conversations that put a new spin on pretty.
0:17
Speaker 1: This is pretty smart. Fran Hauser spent fifteen years climbing
0:22
Speaker 1: the rings at Time Inc. Eventually becoming the president of
0:25
Speaker 1: Digital Now, she's an angel investor focused on female founded companies.
0:33
Speaker 1: Fran has been called one of the six most powerful
0:35
Speaker 1: women in New York City's tech scene. She's also the
0:39
Speaker 1: best selling author of The Myth of the Nice Girl.
0:42
Speaker 1: She calls kindness her professional superpower, and she's about to
0:46
Speaker 1: release her new workbook, Embrace the Work, Love your Career.
0:50
Speaker 1: You know, work can be so confusing to navigate, fran says,
0:53
Speaker 1: no matter where you are in your journey, this guided
0:56
Speaker 1: workbook promises to help you become unstuck. You can thrive
1:00
Speaker 1: in your career and ultimately live the life you want
1:04
Speaker 1: and deserve. You are a native New Yorker and your
1:10
Speaker 1: parents were Italian immigrants, and they both started small businesses,
1:15
Speaker 1: which I think is pretty rare to have both parents
1:19
Speaker 1: in small business. What was your example of success growing up?
1:23
Speaker 2: Well, it was I have to tell you, you know,
1:26
Speaker 2: amazing to see my parents, who spoke very little English
1:33
Speaker 2: starting these businesses. So my dad was a stonemason and
1:37
Speaker 2: a landscaper and my mother was a tailor, and you know,
1:41
Speaker 2: they were service businesses, right, they had clients, and just
1:47
Speaker 2: imagine like not being able to fully communicate with your clients.
1:54
Speaker 2: I noticed this in the moment, but I think it
1:56
Speaker 2: really struck me later on how important nonverseble communicationists because
2:03
Speaker 2: they used a lot of that. They really did, whether
2:05
Speaker 2: it was with their eyes, you know, whether it was
2:08
Speaker 2: smiling even just like my dad would always like touch,
2:11
Speaker 2: you know, like touch the other person's shoulder. So they
2:14
Speaker 2: were just very warm and very caring and loving and
2:18
Speaker 2: dynamic and charming and happy and all of that I
2:21
Speaker 2: think really made a difference in terms of building relationships,
2:25
Speaker 2: you know, with their clients. And frankly, I had to
2:27
Speaker 2: do a lot of the translating. That was like my role.
2:30
Speaker 2: So even when I was in first grade, I was
2:32
Speaker 2: translating for them.
2:34
Speaker 1: So I was going to say, I read that you
2:36
Speaker 1: also in the first grade were not only translating but
2:38
Speaker 1: helping them with the books. I was.
2:40
Speaker 2: I was doing all the invoices. You know, it's really funny.
2:43
Speaker 2: I couldn't. I could add, but I couldn't multiply so together.
2:48
Speaker 2: So I could add, like if it was for landscaping,
2:52
Speaker 2: monthly maintenance, you know, plus tax, like I could add that,
2:55
Speaker 2: but I couldn't calculate the tax because the tax was
2:58
Speaker 2: like five point seventy five percent. So my aunt actually
3:01
Speaker 2: created a table for me so that I could just
3:04
Speaker 2: based on whatever the maintenance was, I would pick up
3:07
Speaker 2: the tax figure. Just imagine that being like seven years old.
3:11
Speaker 2: And then the other thing is like if my dad
3:13
Speaker 2: had to go see a job, like for the first time,
3:16
Speaker 2: I would have to listen in on the other phone
3:19
Speaker 2: line and write down the directions to get to that place.
3:25
Speaker 2: So the person would give him directions, I would write
3:27
Speaker 2: them down, belieb and then I would go in the
3:29
Speaker 2: car with him. We would like, you know, we would
3:31
Speaker 2: do our we would drive over. And so I was
3:34
Speaker 2: a big part at a really young age, I was
3:36
Speaker 2: a big part of both of those businesses, which was
3:39
Speaker 2: such an incredible experience.
3:42
Speaker 1: So for people who aren't sort of caught up with
3:45
Speaker 1: your incredible resume. You worked in finance before making the
3:48
Speaker 1: switch to media, and you worked for Time Ink for
3:52
Speaker 1: fifteen years. But you made three major career leaps in
3:57
Speaker 1: your life so far. Is that? Would you say it's
3:59
Speaker 1: fair to thea that is. Yes. So you went from
4:02
Speaker 1: finance to timing to angel investing or like VC, so
4:06
Speaker 1: kind of back to finance in a different way. Yes, Yeah,
4:10
Speaker 1: initially when you switched to media, it's such a stark difference.
4:14
Speaker 1: Why did you feel pulled to media? Yeah?
4:17
Speaker 2: So when I was at SO, I was working at
4:19
Speaker 2: Coca Cola, I was working in finance, and you know,
4:23
Speaker 2: what I realized was that I liked finance, but I
4:27
Speaker 2: wanted to do more. Like my dream was really like
4:30
Speaker 2: just to run all aspects of the business. And literally
4:34
Speaker 2: what happened was I got a call from an executive
4:36
Speaker 2: recruiter for which I'm so happy I took, by the way,
4:40
Speaker 2: I'm so happy I took that call for an early
4:43
Speaker 2: stage company called moviefone, which back then was seven seven
4:47
Speaker 2: seventh film and they were just getting on to the internet,
4:51
Speaker 2: you know, moviefone dot com. They were looking for a
4:54
Speaker 2: head of finance and administration. But when I talked to
4:58
Speaker 2: the founders and I let them know like what my
5:00
Speaker 2: dreams were that I really wanted to do more, and
5:03
Speaker 2: I asked them, would they give me the opportunity to
5:06
Speaker 2: basically work in different departments, like be the SVP of
5:10
Speaker 2: finance and administration, but I wanted to learn about marketing
5:12
Speaker 2: and sales and technology and operations. And they said yes.
5:16
Speaker 2: And because they were an early stage company. I mean, look,
5:18
Speaker 2: that's the beautiful thing about smaller companies, right, there's just
5:22
Speaker 2: more flexibility. If I had stayed at Coke, It's really
5:25
Speaker 2: hard to make that kind of change at a Fortune
5:27
Speaker 2: five hundred company because they see you as the finance person.
5:31
Speaker 2: So if I all of a sudden was like, hey,
5:33
Speaker 2: I want to try marketing, you know it just it
5:35
Speaker 2: didn't end up. But I have to tell you, oh
5:39
Speaker 2: my gosh. Senior executives at Coca Cola were calling me
5:43
Speaker 2: when they heard that I was leaving, and they said
5:46
Speaker 2: to me, like, Fran you could be the CFO, Like
5:48
Speaker 2: you could be the CFO of the Coca Cola company
5:50
Speaker 2: one day. And I was going to a company that
5:53
Speaker 2: they had never even heard of. So I was leaving
5:56
Speaker 2: one of the world's most admired companies to go to
5:59
Speaker 2: an early stage company just when like the Internet was
6:02
Speaker 2: getting going. You know, it's kind of like Web three today, right,
6:06
Speaker 2: Like that was like Web one point zero. So it
6:09
Speaker 2: was a really big risk, but I felt like it
6:11
Speaker 2: was a risk worth taking because I was so clear
6:15
Speaker 2: that I wanted to do more and I felt like
6:18
Speaker 2: that was a good, a good path. And I'm Danielle.
6:21
Speaker 2: I'm so glad I did it because the founders did
6:24
Speaker 2: give me exposure to so many different areas, and we
6:26
Speaker 2: ultimately sold movie Phone to AOL, and then you know,
6:31
Speaker 2: the founders retired and I ended up running movie Phone
6:34
Speaker 2: as a division of AOL, and then that's what got
6:38
Speaker 2: me to time.
6:38
Speaker 1: In Moviefone was somewhat of a media company.
6:42
Speaker 2: It was my first media job, and you know, I'm
6:46
Speaker 2: still connected to a lot of the people that I
6:49
Speaker 2: worked with there, like some of the smartest people that
6:52
Speaker 2: I that I ever worked with.
6:53
Speaker 1: That's really nice and somewhat rare too, Like I think
6:56
Speaker 1: that says something about the relationships you built while you
7:00
Speaker 1: were at all of these different places, which kind of
7:03
Speaker 1: actually brings me to your first book. I'd love to
7:05
Speaker 1: go over some of the concepts from the Myth of
7:08
Speaker 1: the Nice Girl, because I think they're really important. They
7:11
Speaker 1: taught me a lot, so it was released in twenty eighteen,
7:15
Speaker 1: pre Pandemic, And my best deduction was that after your
7:19
Speaker 1: time at all of these corporate places, you saw a
7:23
Speaker 1: bunch of unkindness and thought there's a different way, and
7:27
Speaker 1: also it can be beneficial. So how did you see
7:31
Speaker 1: your own kindness play out in an advantageous way.
7:35
Speaker 2: Early on in my career, I was constantly told that
7:37
Speaker 2: I was too nice, and that I was so nice,
7:41
Speaker 2: I was too nice, that I'm not going to get
7:42
Speaker 2: the corner office, and that I needed to toughen up.
7:45
Speaker 2: And that was sort of like the consistent message in
7:47
Speaker 2: the beginning of my career. And you know, what I've
7:50
Speaker 2: realized was that there's so much power to kindness because
7:54
Speaker 2: when you're nice to people, you gain their trust, and
7:58
Speaker 2: when you gain their trust, it allows you to build
8:01
Speaker 2: a deep relationship with them. And at the end of
8:05
Speaker 2: the day, business is all about relationships, you know. Like
8:09
Speaker 2: I think about whether I was at time INC in
8:13
Speaker 2: my president of Digital role and I needed resources, you know,
8:17
Speaker 2: I needed technology resources to build a product that I
8:21
Speaker 2: wanted to build. My relationship with the CTO with the company.
8:25
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, it was everything right because I needed
8:28
Speaker 2: to be able to go to him and say, Mitch,
8:30
Speaker 2: here's what I need. So the ability to influence right
8:34
Speaker 2: or even if it was you know, negotiating with another company,
8:37
Speaker 2: truly making it clear that like, I care about what
8:41
Speaker 2: they need to get out of the partnership and the
8:44
Speaker 2: value that they're looking to create, and that it's not
8:46
Speaker 2: just about me, me, me, but it's I'm really you know,
8:49
Speaker 2: so I feel like for me, there's just been so
8:52
Speaker 2: many examples of where like being kind and really taking
8:56
Speaker 2: the time to connect with people really has paid off
9:00
Speaker 2: in spades. And as a leader, I'm the kind of
9:04
Speaker 2: leader that people want to work with because I care
9:07
Speaker 2: about them.
9:08
Speaker 1: That does your kindness show up as a leader as
9:12
Speaker 1: an employer.
9:13
Speaker 2: One way that I would say is that I really
9:17
Speaker 2: do make an effort to connect with If we're talking
9:23
Speaker 2: about my team, like I really want them to feel
9:27
Speaker 2: connected to me and that I have their back. So
9:31
Speaker 2: something doesn't go as planned, maybe they made a mistake,
9:34
Speaker 2: maybe they made a bad call. You know, I want
9:37
Speaker 2: them to know that I'm there for them and that
9:39
Speaker 2: I really respect that they went for it. That took
9:42
Speaker 2: a lot of courage. It didn't quite work out the
9:45
Speaker 2: way that you know, we were hoping it would, but
9:49
Speaker 2: you know, let's just take a step back and really
9:50
Speaker 2: think about, like, Okay, what can learn from this? And
9:53
Speaker 2: I think even just like that as an example is
9:57
Speaker 2: really important because I like to create environments that are
10:01
Speaker 2: psychologically safe. I want people to feel like they can
10:05
Speaker 2: make mistakes and that's okay, you know. I want people
10:08
Speaker 2: to feel like they can speak up even if they
10:10
Speaker 2: have a different opinion. We can debate, but I'm going
10:13
Speaker 2: to respect you, and that's really important if you want
10:16
Speaker 2: to get the best work out of people. I think
10:19
Speaker 2: creating a psychologically safe space is critical.
10:23
Speaker 1: So I was thinking about as an employee, my sort
10:27
Speaker 1: of relationship with kindness because similar to what you described
10:31
Speaker 1: in the book, it's been like in your own way,
10:34
Speaker 1: in my way, it's been like a double edged sword
10:37
Speaker 1: until I sort of figured it out. So I think
10:40
Speaker 1: a lot of people think kindness is agreeableness, and I
10:46
Speaker 1: learned that kindness without boundaries is obligation and that's not kind.
10:50
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
10:51
Speaker 1: I love that we did an episode on kindness, and
10:53
Speaker 1: the expert taught me that.
10:55
Speaker 2: I talk in the book a lot about people pleasing
10:59
Speaker 2: and the different friends between being kind, like with if
11:02
Speaker 2: you're a people pleaser, right, You're just going to say
11:04
Speaker 2: yes to everything. You're not going to set those boundaries, right,
11:08
Speaker 2: You're just going to say yes, yes, Yes. You're going
11:11
Speaker 2: to sweep things under the rug because you don't want
11:13
Speaker 2: to make waves. All of that. If you think about
11:16
Speaker 2: the way that you're showing up in the world when
11:17
Speaker 2: you're doing those things, those things can be perceived as
11:22
Speaker 2: being weak, right, But that's very different than being kind.
11:27
Speaker 2: If you're kind in a way where you're still setting boundaries,
11:31
Speaker 2: you're saying no with respect, you're communicating in a way
11:36
Speaker 2: that's direct, you could still have really high expectations of
11:40
Speaker 2: your team. I talk in the book a lot about
11:43
Speaker 2: how you don't have to choose between being kind and
11:46
Speaker 2: being strong, and I think it's a really important concept.
11:52
Speaker 2: I remember somebody saying to me once, but you know,
11:55
Speaker 2: if I'm like too nice to my team, they're just
11:57
Speaker 2: going to walk all over me. And that's not true
12:03
Speaker 2: if you're doing it in a way where you're still
12:05
Speaker 2: being really clear about what your expectations are and you're
12:09
Speaker 2: motivating them because people want to win. You know, at
12:11
Speaker 2: the end of the day, everybody wants to be a
12:13
Speaker 2: part of a winning team, right, So you're being clear
12:15
Speaker 2: about what success looks like, what your expectations are, You're
12:18
Speaker 2: setting stretch goals for them. You know you're doing all
12:22
Speaker 2: of that, but you're still doing it in a way
12:24
Speaker 2: where you're not being a jerk. And look, I do
12:27
Speaker 2: think that one of the reasons why The Myth of
12:29
Speaker 2: the Nice Girl was so important for me to write
12:33
Speaker 2: was because I really feel like there are certain behaviors
12:36
Speaker 2: that hold women back at work. And I can name
12:41
Speaker 2: a million that I've personally experienced myself, especially early on
12:45
Speaker 2: in my career, where you know, I was afraid to
12:48
Speaker 2: speak up in meetings, I was afraid to ask for
12:51
Speaker 2: a raise, I was afraid to go for the job
12:54
Speaker 2: because I didn't feel, you know that I met all
12:56
Speaker 2: the qualifications, like all of these things that now I know,
13:00
Speaker 2: you know, through like living through my career. But I
13:04
Speaker 2: feel like these behaviors, it's really important to be aware of,
13:08
Speaker 2: like what are those behaviors that are holding you back
13:11
Speaker 2: and how are you showing up at work? Because you
13:14
Speaker 2: want to show up in a way that is productive
13:17
Speaker 2: and that is going to allow you to be successful.
13:21
Speaker 2: So that was really important to me in writing and
13:23
Speaker 2: writing that book.
13:25
Speaker 1: You say perfect is boring and it makes others uncomfortable,
13:29
Speaker 1: Which is funny because I think as women, so often
13:32
Speaker 1: we feel the need to be perfect. We're socialized in
13:35
Speaker 1: that way or some sort of ideal of perfection, and
13:38
Speaker 1: the huge problems that perfect is super vague. So it's
13:41
Speaker 1: like this thing, yeah, forever reach. Why do you think
13:44
Speaker 1: vulnerability is so underestimated in offices?
13:47
Speaker 2: So I do think being open about like anything on
13:51
Speaker 2: the job that you're struggling, whether it's like a technical thing,
13:55
Speaker 2: whether it's a part of the project, maybe it's a relationship. Again,
13:59
Speaker 2: it goes back to the psychofe logically safe environment, because
14:01
Speaker 2: I feel like if you don't have a psychologically safe environment,
14:04
Speaker 2: you're not going to feel comfortable bringing up those issues
14:06
Speaker 2: and you're not going to feel comfortable being vulnerable. And
14:10
Speaker 2: you know, I'll give you an example. I shared this,
14:13
Speaker 2: I think in the Myth of the Nice Girl, where
14:16
Speaker 2: I was working for someone and they asked me to
14:18
Speaker 2: put together a strategy deck. They actually gave me like
14:21
Speaker 2: a whole month to work on this presentation, and I
14:25
Speaker 2: was so worried about being vulnerable, Like there were pieces
14:28
Speaker 2: as I was going through it that I was struggling
14:30
Speaker 2: with and I didn't go to my boss to tell
14:33
Speaker 2: her that I was struggling. And then the presentation was due.
14:37
Speaker 2: I'm in the conference room, I'm presenting to her and
14:39
Speaker 2: to other people, and she literally said to me, fran
14:42
Speaker 2: you completely missed the boat on this. This is not
14:45
Speaker 2: what I wanted at all. So I took a whole
14:48
Speaker 2: month to work on this thing right and then under
14:51
Speaker 2: delivered when all I had to do was check in
14:54
Speaker 2: with her every once in a while. I didn't want
14:57
Speaker 2: to seem vulnerable. I wanted her to feel like, oh
14:59
Speaker 2: my god, Frank has this totally under control. She's got
15:02
Speaker 2: it all figured out. But think about it, if you,
15:05
Speaker 2: like one weekend, if I'd gone to her and said, hey,
15:08
Speaker 2: what did you mean by this exactly? Or I just
15:10
Speaker 2: want to make sure that I'm delivering you know what
15:13
Speaker 2: you're what you're expecting like out of this presentation. But
15:17
Speaker 2: because I didn't want to be vulnerable, oh my god,
15:20
Speaker 2: that was the worst feeling in the world.
15:22
Speaker 1: You mentioned nonverbal communication, which is part of your book,
15:26
Speaker 1: and it's interesting to hear that you kind of learned
15:29
Speaker 1: that from your parents. Growing up in work environments where
15:33
Speaker 1: you're not touching somebody on the shoulder necessarily. What kind
15:36
Speaker 1: of nonverbal cues are we giving or not giving that
15:38
Speaker 1: you think should just be noted.
15:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think some some big ones are definitely
15:45
Speaker 2: eye contact, which is very hard when you're over zoom,
15:48
Speaker 2: but you know, especially when you're when you're in person,
15:52
Speaker 2: I think really like, you know, the eye contact is
15:55
Speaker 2: really important, Smiling with your eyes. You know, if hand
15:59
Speaker 2: gestures are like natural to you, I think that that's
16:03
Speaker 2: awesome because it just it brings a little bit of energy,
16:07
Speaker 2: which is great. Posture is really important. I think posture
16:11
Speaker 2: is really important. And I also think that sometimes when
16:14
Speaker 2: you're in a meeting and everyone is sitting down, it's
16:18
Speaker 2: totally okay to stand, Like at certain moments, you know,
16:22
Speaker 2: like I had a situation where I was in a
16:24
Speaker 2: board meeting and I couldn't get a word in edgewise
16:27
Speaker 2: because somebody had the floor and they just weren't giving
16:29
Speaker 2: it up. So I stood, and by standing, it kind
16:33
Speaker 2: of just forced everybody to look at me. And that's
16:37
Speaker 2: I think a really great tactic to think about.
16:40
Speaker 1: It's taking so much courage because you're like, holy shit,
16:44
Speaker 1: everybody's looking at me. But when you do it, it
16:47
Speaker 1: can change the whole energy of the room. I'm so
16:49
Speaker 1: with you. I actually just saw somebody do this and
16:51
Speaker 1: was wowed.
16:52
Speaker 2: Right, And you know, I'm I'm petite, right, I'm soft spoken,
16:58
Speaker 2: so sometimes I need to do things like that. So
17:02
Speaker 2: I think that's that's actually one that's that's not spoken
17:06
Speaker 2: about a lot, you know, like we hear a lot
17:07
Speaker 2: about the posture and the eye contact, smiling, the energy.
17:10
Speaker 2: But that's a really really powerful tactic.
17:14
Speaker 1: I love that one. Thank you for sharing that. You Also,
17:17
Speaker 1: there was this article you did about speech weakeners that
17:21
Speaker 1: I think are so great. I had never heard of
17:23
Speaker 1: that term. Actually, So what are speech weakeners?
17:26
Speaker 2: So speech weakeners are words or phrases that you use
17:33
Speaker 2: that might come across as you know, weak basically, so
17:39
Speaker 2: people might perceive a weakness in you. And I think, look,
17:42
Speaker 2: a really great example is I'm sorry, you know, when
17:45
Speaker 2: when you're apologizing for things that are trivial, which, by
17:50
Speaker 2: the way, like the story that I have in the
17:52
Speaker 2: book is that somebody called me out on this when
17:54
Speaker 2: I was working at time Make and they said, like,
17:56
Speaker 2: frand you realize, you know, you apologize a lot, and
17:59
Speaker 2: I I didn't realize that I was doing it, and
18:01
Speaker 2: I didn't believe her. So I went into my inbox
18:04
Speaker 2: and I typed i'm sorry into the search field because
18:08
Speaker 2: I wanted to see, like, am I actually saying I'm
18:11
Speaker 2: sorry in emails? And hundreds and hundreds of emails came back.
18:15
Speaker 2: And what was so crazy. This was the craziest part.
18:18
Speaker 2: I was starting the email, but I'm sorry, like it
18:21
Speaker 2: was like, I'm so sorry, I'm not going to be
18:23
Speaker 2: able to do that. I'm so sorry it's taking me,
18:26
Speaker 2: you know, it's taken me so long to get back
18:27
Speaker 2: to you. And I realized I was apologizing for things
18:32
Speaker 2: that were so breathing real like literally for breathing. And
18:36
Speaker 2: what I started doing was replacing I'm sorry with thank you,
18:40
Speaker 2: so just thank you for your patience, thank you for
18:43
Speaker 2: the imitation. You know, I'm not going to be able
18:46
Speaker 2: to make it, blah blah blah. But instead of I'm
18:48
Speaker 2: so sorry I can't make it, it's thank you, like
18:50
Speaker 2: thank you for thinking of me, thank you.
18:52
Speaker 1: For switch is it up right?
18:54
Speaker 2: It's just so much more positive. It's just a beautiful
18:57
Speaker 2: way to start an email. The other one that I
19:00
Speaker 2: have to tell you, I still struggle with is using
19:03
Speaker 2: the word just, especially in email, and I'm trying to
19:08
Speaker 2: catch myself as I'm doing that, like just checking in
19:10
Speaker 2: or just following up. It really minimizes the rest of
19:15
Speaker 2: the sentence when you use that word, it minimizes the
19:18
Speaker 2: importance of it, right, like I just checking.
19:21
Speaker 1: In or like tiptoeing via email.
19:24
Speaker 2: You're tiptoeing. So being aware and you know this idea
19:28
Speaker 2: of like being aware is eighty percent of the battle.
19:34
Speaker 1: It's like the whole rule of therapy. It's like, just
19:37
Speaker 1: be aware of the things.
19:39
Speaker 2: Just be aware of the things. I actually did a
19:42
Speaker 2: survey because I wanted to understand why women have such
19:45
Speaker 2: a hard time saying no. So I sent a survey
19:48
Speaker 2: to three hundred women, and I have to tell you,
19:51
Speaker 2: like seventy five women responded within two hours, which was amazing. Wow,
19:55
Speaker 2: seventy five women, And it was like venting sessions. And
19:58
Speaker 2: what I what I learned was that there are so
20:01
Speaker 2: many reasons. There's like fifteen different reasons why we have
20:04
Speaker 2: a heart time saying no, everything from fomo to people pleasing,
20:11
Speaker 2: to feeling like you want to be in control so
20:14
Speaker 2: you would rather do it as opposed to delegating it
20:16
Speaker 2: to someone else. So there's like fifteen different reasons. And
20:21
Speaker 2: my whole point is, know what your reason is, Like
20:23
Speaker 2: if you have a hard time saying no, like I
20:25
Speaker 2: know for me it's people pleasing. I know that that's
20:27
Speaker 2: what it is. So if I'm about to say yes,
20:31
Speaker 2: if I'm about to say yes, I literally have to
20:33
Speaker 2: check in with myself and make sure that I'm saying
20:37
Speaker 2: yes for good reasons, for a strategic reason. Right, Maybe
20:41
Speaker 2: it's aligned with my priorities, maybe it's just something that
20:44
Speaker 2: brings me join and I want to do it. But
20:46
Speaker 2: if I'm saying yes because I feel bad saying no,
20:50
Speaker 2: then no, that's not going to work. So again, it's
20:53
Speaker 2: that awareness in checking in with yourself.
20:55
Speaker 1: Right, if I'm saying yes just because I feel bad
20:59
Speaker 1: saying no, that's a really good check in.
21:02
Speaker 2: Literally, if it's a yes, like, I have to think
21:04
Speaker 2: about this. I have to just take a few minutes
21:06
Speaker 2: and really think about this.
21:08
Speaker 1: So you say, reflection leads to clarity, and clarity leads
21:11
Speaker 1: to action. This sort of leads me into your workbook
21:15
Speaker 1: because a pillar of the workbook to me seems like reflection,
21:19
Speaker 1: and that's kind of how you find clarity. I think
21:23
Speaker 1: one of the things that I'm obsessed with is questions. Right,
21:26
Speaker 1: if we want better answers, ask better questions. How do
21:30
Speaker 1: you reflect? Because everybody does it differently. Some people journal,
21:33
Speaker 1: like some people go to therapy. How do you best reflect?
21:36
Speaker 2: It's actually really interesting. I've been thinking a lot about this,
21:39
Speaker 2: and I'm very data driven. So for me, what I
21:46
Speaker 2: like to do, Like one of the exercises in the
21:48
Speaker 2: book is where you go back and you look at
21:51
Speaker 2: your calendar for the last three months and you scan
21:57
Speaker 2: each day and look for the meetings or the experiences
22:01
Speaker 2: that put a smile on your face, like that bring
22:04
Speaker 2: back a memory of like, oh I really enjoyed that,
22:06
Speaker 2: you know, like that was something that I really enjoyed doing.
22:08
Speaker 2: I really enjoyed being a part of that gathering or
22:11
Speaker 2: a part of that meeting. And then to think about why,
22:15
Speaker 2: Like what was it that you enjoyed. Was it the
22:18
Speaker 2: type of people that you were with, was it the
22:20
Speaker 2: skills that you were using, was it the type of
22:23
Speaker 2: problem that you were solving? Like, really, like do the
22:26
Speaker 2: work to understand what it was that you enjoyed about that,
22:29
Speaker 2: because when you do that, then it brings you clarity
22:34
Speaker 2: around the parts of your job and the parts of
22:37
Speaker 2: your career that you're really loving and like, and then
22:40
Speaker 2: how can you do more of that? Like for me,
22:42
Speaker 2: when I was a time ink and I was towards
22:44
Speaker 2: the end of my tenure there and I was I
22:47
Speaker 2: was starting to get that itch of feeling like I
22:49
Speaker 2: wanted to do something else, but I didn't know what.
22:52
Speaker 2: And I actually did this exercise. I went back, I
22:54
Speaker 2: looked at my calendar, and I realized that I was
22:57
Speaker 2: the happiest when I was meeting with startups because I
23:01
Speaker 2: was running digital and I was meeting with all of
23:04
Speaker 2: these startups like Runt the Runway and you know, Flipboard
23:08
Speaker 2: at the time, or Pop Sugar Refinery twenty nine, and
23:12
Speaker 2: I loved meeting with the founders and like helping them
23:15
Speaker 2: think through their businesses and how to grow. And that's
23:19
Speaker 2: ultimately kind of that that clarity was like, wait, but
23:22
Speaker 2: what if I start investing and advising because it felt
23:27
Speaker 2: risky for me to just leave and do that. So
23:29
Speaker 2: for two years that's what I did. I invested in
23:32
Speaker 2: and I started advising startups. I loved it. And then
23:35
Speaker 2: I decided to go off and you know, go all
23:38
Speaker 2: in on it, and I've been working for myself now
23:41
Speaker 2: for eight years.
23:42
Speaker 1: So funny. I interviewed somebody yesterday who was like, when
23:45
Speaker 1: you're an entrepreneur, you think you work for yourself, but
23:48
Speaker 1: you actually, like are in demand by so many more
23:51
Speaker 1: people than you ever thought. And it's so true. But
23:55
Speaker 1: there's a freedom that also comes with it.
23:57
Speaker 2: Definitely, and there's you know, I feel like I'm so
24:00
Speaker 2: blessed right now because I get to choose. I get
24:04
Speaker 2: to choose who I work with and the projects that
24:07
Speaker 2: I work on. And I also get to think about
24:09
Speaker 2: you know, like when I left time in, my kids
24:12
Speaker 2: were three and like eighteen months, so you know, over
24:17
Speaker 2: the last year, the last eight years, just really being
24:19
Speaker 2: able to craft kind of what my day looks like,
24:23
Speaker 2: you know, and really have control over that.
24:26
Speaker 1: Specific exercises are helpful too, because I think we hear
24:29
Speaker 1: so often it's like journal ask yourself questions and it's like, okay,
24:32
Speaker 1: what questions? Like I don't know, you know, how do
24:36
Speaker 1: I know what makes me happy? So like looking back
24:38
Speaker 1: at your calendar, having something actionable is so helpful.
24:41
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, I think the actionable part, it's really a
24:45
Speaker 2: guiding principle of the book, and it's really kind of
24:49
Speaker 2: who I am too, Like I'm such an operator at heart.
24:52
Speaker 2: I hope that the book is inspiring, but I really
24:55
Speaker 2: want for women to read this book and to do
24:58
Speaker 2: this book and to walk away with a plan at
25:02
Speaker 2: the end of the day. I want them to have
25:03
Speaker 2: a plan, you know, that's really important to me.
25:07
Speaker 1: Will you give sort of six steps and if you
25:10
Speaker 1: feel comfortable, I'd kind of love to go through the steps,
25:12
Speaker 1: but using personal anecdotes from your life, because I'm such
25:18
Speaker 1: I'm a specifics girl, Like the only way I can
25:21
Speaker 1: grab onto an idea is to like really hone in.
25:24
Speaker 1: So this is almost a selfish exercise. But the first
25:27
Speaker 1: one is fall in love with your career. Yeah, and
25:31
Speaker 1: there's a difference between job and career, So what do
25:33
Speaker 1: you mean by fall in love with your career?
25:36
Speaker 2: So actually that one. What I would say in terms
25:38
Speaker 2: of the personal anecdote is what I just shared about
25:43
Speaker 2: being a time ink and kind of feeling like, okay,
25:48
Speaker 2: that was one of the best jobs that I ever had,
25:50
Speaker 2: By the way, I loved that job, but I just
25:53
Speaker 2: got to a place where i'd been there for a while,
25:56
Speaker 2: and you know, the bigger my job got like the
26:00
Speaker 2: more brands I was overseeing, the more administrative it became,
26:04
Speaker 2: like the more budget oriented and like presenting to the board,
26:07
Speaker 2: and and so I was falling. I was falling out
26:10
Speaker 2: of love with my career at that point. So it's
26:13
Speaker 2: it's that like moment of recognizing that you want more
26:18
Speaker 2: and then kind of doing that reflection and doing that
26:21
Speaker 2: exploration to really figure out, Okay, what direction, what direction
26:25
Speaker 2: should I go in?
26:27
Speaker 1: Okay? Number two, design your career action plan.
26:31
Speaker 2: So this is an important one because this is really
26:36
Speaker 2: all about your goals. So you know it's and it's
26:41
Speaker 2: there's four different areas. There's value creation, there's skills, there's connection,
26:46
Speaker 2: and there's branding. And in this section I really go
26:50
Speaker 2: through why each one of those is so important because
26:53
Speaker 2: I found that when I set goals in those four areas,
26:57
Speaker 2: it's had an outsized impact on my career. And connections.
27:01
Speaker 2: Let's talk about connections as an example, that's one of
27:04
Speaker 2: the four. I think it's really important for everyone to
27:07
Speaker 2: have a vision, a high level vision around like networking
27:12
Speaker 2: and building out their network and not just like hey,
27:15
Speaker 2: I just serendipitously, I just want to meet more people
27:18
Speaker 2: and I want to grow my network, but it's like
27:20
Speaker 2: what type of people do you want to meet? Like
27:23
Speaker 2: when I was in media, I realized that everybody in
27:26
Speaker 2: my network looked and sounded like me. And I was
27:29
Speaker 2: so interested in technology, and I was really interested in
27:32
Speaker 2: the nonprofit space, and so I decided that I wanted
27:35
Speaker 2: to meet more people in those two sectors. That really
27:39
Speaker 2: became like my higher level vision, and then the actionable
27:42
Speaker 2: part of me was like, Okay, how do I make
27:44
Speaker 2: this happen? And that's where like the working my network
27:47
Speaker 2: and going through LinkedIn, and also being very very intentional,
27:50
Speaker 2: Like I remember reading a book Half the Sky by
27:54
Speaker 2: Nick Christoph and Cheryl wu Dun and at the end
27:56
Speaker 2: of that book they talked about Global Giving being this
28:00
Speaker 2: incredible nonprofit and I was so intrigued that I just
28:06
Speaker 2: sent an email. I found the CEO and founder, Marikree.
28:10
Speaker 2: She you know, I found her information online and I
28:12
Speaker 2: sent her an email saying I want to learn more,
28:14
Speaker 2: see if I can be helpful. I ended up joining
28:16
Speaker 2: their board.
28:18
Speaker 1: I'm a huge proponent of the cold email. Cold emails
28:20
Speaker 1: have changed my life time and again. I get a
28:23
Speaker 1: lot of cold emails from people that are terrible and
28:27
Speaker 1: I almost wish I could give a course. I'm cold emailing,
28:30
Speaker 1: and it sounds like you could too. Yeah we should
28:33
Speaker 1: do that, because but what do you think are the
28:37
Speaker 1: great components of a cold email?
28:39
Speaker 2: Yeah? So I think the first is that your energy
28:44
Speaker 2: and like just being really positive, Like even with that
28:47
Speaker 2: global giving email, I was just effusive and just I'm
28:51
Speaker 2: such a big fan. I love the work that you're doing.
28:55
Speaker 2: Never use the phrase pick your brain.
28:58
Speaker 1: Yes, because it sounds like it's a job for them.
29:01
Speaker 2: They approach the cold email from a place of being helpful,
29:06
Speaker 2: So it's like, yes, I'm a big fan and I
29:09
Speaker 2: would love to meet you.
29:10
Speaker 1: I think it's my number one piece of advice for
29:13
Speaker 1: young women when they ask me about like what to
29:15
Speaker 1: do when they go into a meeting. Everybody constantly thinks
29:18
Speaker 1: what can I get out of this? And it's the
29:21
Speaker 1: opposite approach. You have to no matter how old you are,
29:24
Speaker 1: you always have some sort of expertise, maybe you know
29:26
Speaker 1: about digital and the person you're meeting with doesn't like
29:29
Speaker 1: what can you give? How can you how can you
29:32
Speaker 1: make their life easier?
29:33
Speaker 2: Yep?
29:34
Speaker 1: Number three, create time and space. This one is interesting.
29:37
Speaker 2: This one is really important because you know, you can
29:40
Speaker 2: have this vision for a career that you love, and
29:42
Speaker 2: you can have your goals for how you're going to
29:45
Speaker 2: achieve it, But then what ends up happening is we
29:48
Speaker 2: all getmired in our like you know, mile long to
29:51
Speaker 2: do list, and we don't make the time for the
29:53
Speaker 2: things that really matter. Like when I think about how
29:56
Speaker 2: much time I used to spend no joke, like this
29:59
Speaker 2: was something I had to change at work. If I
30:01
Speaker 2: had an idea, if I had a new business idea,
30:04
Speaker 2: I would literally put a PowerPoint deck together to go
30:06
Speaker 2: talk to my boss and take them through the deck.
30:09
Speaker 2: And when I came back from my first maternity leave
30:13
Speaker 2: and I realized, like I can't. I have to stop
30:15
Speaker 2: doing things like that because instead of putting the deck right,
30:19
Speaker 2: I'm like, no, you know what I'm going to do. Instead,
30:21
Speaker 2: I have an idea. I'm just going to think about
30:23
Speaker 2: the three most important things that I can say about
30:25
Speaker 2: this idea to convince someone that it's a good idea,
30:29
Speaker 2: And I'm going to have a conversation and let's have
30:32
Speaker 2: the conversation. If my boss gets excited, then I'll pull
30:36
Speaker 2: the team together and we'll put together the deck.
30:38
Speaker 1: Do you have any scheduling hacks.
30:40
Speaker 2: When I tell you, I always end up making changes
30:42
Speaker 2: because what I'm looking for is like I know what
30:46
Speaker 2: my priorities are and where I'm supposed to be spending
30:48
Speaker 2: my time, my calendar and my to do list, or
30:52
Speaker 2: where I'm actually spending my time. So if they're out
30:55
Speaker 2: of whack, like if my calendar isn't aligned with my priorities,
31:02
Speaker 2: I make decisions. But my whole goal literally is when
31:05
Speaker 2: I'm looking at my calendar, I want to create as
31:07
Speaker 2: much time and space in my calendar so that I
31:10
Speaker 2: can actually get work done and that I'm not in
31:13
Speaker 2: meetings all the time.
31:15
Speaker 1: Number four is hard know your value. I'm still working
31:18
Speaker 1: on that, but to me, that has come more with
31:21
Speaker 1: time and experience than anything else.
31:23
Speaker 2: I agree, and I totally agree with that, and I'll
31:26
Speaker 2: share like one one tip from there that that's really
31:31
Speaker 2: been helpful to me and to many other women that
31:33
Speaker 2: I know, is I really believe in evidence based confidence.
31:38
Speaker 2: So like that's where my confidence comes from from, like
31:42
Speaker 2: having done something well. And so what I like to
31:45
Speaker 2: do is I like to keep a journal. I call
31:47
Speaker 2: it a smile file of you know, any time that
31:52
Speaker 2: I do something that's really great, like where I'm really
31:55
Speaker 2: creating value, I write it down. If I have a
31:58
Speaker 2: great parenting moment, I write it down. If I get
32:01
Speaker 2: like really nice feedback from someone, you know, like I'll
32:04
Speaker 2: put that in the journal. And what that does is like,
32:07
Speaker 2: whenever I'm feeling a little bit of imposter syndrome or
32:11
Speaker 2: like why did I get invited to this thing, I
32:14
Speaker 2: don't deserve a seat at the table, Like I literally
32:17
Speaker 2: go back and I just I look at that. I'm like,
32:19
Speaker 2: oh my God, like, look at what I'm capable of.
32:22
Speaker 2: You know, I've done all of these amazing things, and
32:26
Speaker 2: it's just reminding yourself of it because it's so natural
32:30
Speaker 2: as human beings to dwell in the mistakes.
32:34
Speaker 1: Number five is build your dream team, and number six
32:37
Speaker 1: is reflect and reset.
32:40
Speaker 2: So build your dream team. This is really about understanding
32:45
Speaker 2: that you don't have to go through your career alone.
32:48
Speaker 2: And I've just had such incredible mentors and champions.
32:52
Speaker 1: Number six reflect and reset.
32:54
Speaker 2: So reflect and reset. I think the most important part
32:58
Speaker 2: of this section is understanding how important mindfulness is when
33:04
Speaker 2: you're moving through your career, because I feel like, for
33:07
Speaker 2: all of us, it's so easy to get into autopilot mode,
33:11
Speaker 2: and this idea of just like pressing pause every once
33:15
Speaker 2: in a while and doing this reflection, doing the work,
33:19
Speaker 2: really looking at what's working for you in your career,
33:21
Speaker 2: what's not working for you, and actually setting the time
33:25
Speaker 2: aside to do that, Like if you could set aside
33:27
Speaker 2: an hour each week where you're just doing this reflection
33:31
Speaker 2: like for the week, you know, like looking back looking
33:34
Speaker 2: back on the week, what worked, what didn't, What do
33:36
Speaker 2: you want to do more of? What did you learn.
33:39
Speaker 2: It's something that is so beneficial and we don't do
33:42
Speaker 2: enough of it because we're just so like there's this
33:46
Speaker 2: almost like this energy right now that I'm feeling from
33:49
Speaker 2: people that it's like a frenetic energy where everybody's just
33:54
Speaker 2: like going, going, going, going, going, and more than ever,
33:58
Speaker 2: Like for me, it's very important when I wake up
34:00
Speaker 2: in the morning, I have this like three minute ritual
34:03
Speaker 2: that I do to just like set my tone for
34:06
Speaker 2: the day where I can really connect with myself. The
34:09
Speaker 2: first thing you do in the morning should not be
34:11
Speaker 2: picking up this phone. That should not be the first
34:14
Speaker 2: thing you do. You should have a glass of water
34:17
Speaker 2: and do something where you're just connecting with yourself. Because
34:20
Speaker 2: if you do that then it sets such a good
34:23
Speaker 2: tone for the rest of the day.
34:25
Speaker 1: You've been called one of the most of the six
34:27
Speaker 1: most powerful women in New York's tech scene, which they say,
34:31
Speaker 1: if you make it in New York, you can make
34:32
Speaker 1: it anywhere. So that's a pretty big endorsement. When you started,
34:37
Speaker 1: you were still a media executive. And I think that
34:39
Speaker 1: that combination of understanding storytelling, understanding digital and now having
34:46
Speaker 1: the tech experience is so unique. When people pitch you,
34:51
Speaker 1: like if you can think back to the best pitches
34:53
Speaker 1: and the worst pitches, what excites you, what gets you going?
34:57
Speaker 1: Like when people are putting a pitch together, what are
34:59
Speaker 1: some things that we could really be doing that we're missing?
35:02
Speaker 2: I think, you know, for me, I love hearing the
35:06
Speaker 2: origin story, like why you know, Like, so what brought
35:10
Speaker 2: you to this? Why do you care about it? Whatever
35:13
Speaker 2: the product or the services, So the origin story is
35:16
Speaker 2: really important. And I can't tell you how many founders
35:19
Speaker 2: don't start with that and instead they go right into
35:22
Speaker 2: the product and they talk about the features and what
35:25
Speaker 2: the features are going to do and you know, versus
35:27
Speaker 2: like again, it goes back to that like human connection,
35:31
Speaker 2: that personal connection. I want to know, like why is
35:33
Speaker 2: this important to you? So I think the origin story
35:36
Speaker 2: is really important. I also want to walk away from
35:39
Speaker 2: the conversation feeling like this is a really big opportunity,
35:43
Speaker 2: you know, and sharing market sized numbers. That's fine and
35:48
Speaker 2: I and it's important, but I also really like to
35:52
Speaker 2: hear about like what's happening with our culture and with
35:57
Speaker 2: consumer behavior that is making this time right now like
36:02
Speaker 2: the perfect moment to launch this product or service. But
36:05
Speaker 2: the biggest mistake always is I can't tell you how
36:08
Speaker 2: many people do this. They just go right into the
36:10
Speaker 2: product and they literally start listing like the features, So
36:14
Speaker 2: that doesn't work usually.
36:16
Speaker 1: That is so important. I heard somebody say nobody buys
36:19
Speaker 1: your what, they buy your why? Yes, and it's it's
36:23
Speaker 1: so true. You need to know why, like why, And
36:26
Speaker 1: also I think investors want to know, like in the
36:28
Speaker 1: hard times, why are you going to keep going? And
36:30
Speaker 1: that's like the that's the origin story.
36:33
Speaker 2: That's the got absolutely like how invested are you? Not
36:37
Speaker 2: money wise, but how invested are you in this? How
36:39
Speaker 2: committed are you to it? Because running a startup is
36:43
Speaker 2: one of the hardest things in the world.
36:46
Speaker 1: Okay, what gift do you most often give people? A
36:49
Speaker 1: book me too, friend.
36:52
Speaker 2: I love that. I love books, you know, I try
36:55
Speaker 2: to make it personal, just based on what I know
36:57
Speaker 2: about the person or like what they might need. I
37:00
Speaker 2: have to tell you, though, I just bought your your
37:02
Speaker 2: conversation cards, so I have a feeling that's going to
37:05
Speaker 2: be my new go to gift.
37:08
Speaker 1: I cried when I saw your knee on this job off.
37:11
Speaker 1: I say, that was so supportive and kind.
37:14
Speaker 2: I was, well, I was so excited. I'm like so
37:17
Speaker 2: excited to use them.
37:19
Speaker 1: I want to be able to stay tomorrow mornings.
37:21
Speaker 2: I'm so excited. I can't wait.
37:23
Speaker 1: Thank you. That meant so much to me. I We're
37:26
Speaker 1: going to use them in about a second. I always
37:28
Speaker 1: ask one question from every interview.
37:30
Speaker 2: Good.
37:31
Speaker 1: So the best work perk you've ever had?
37:33
Speaker 2: I loved when I was working at People Magazine. You know,
37:36
Speaker 2: I got to attend a lot of the red carpet events,
37:39
Speaker 2: so the Screen Actor's Guild Awards, the Grammys. You know,
37:43
Speaker 2: we would always take clients. And the best perk was
37:46
Speaker 2: the swag bag. Oh my gosh, Danielle, Like it was
37:52
Speaker 2: so crazy, like thousands of dollars of stuff in that
37:55
Speaker 2: bag that I would And the best part was bringing
37:58
Speaker 2: it home and sharing with everyone, you know, with my sister,
38:02
Speaker 2: my mom, my nanny, my friends, Like everybody got something
38:06
Speaker 2: so much fun.
38:08
Speaker 1: Okay, a quick piece of financial advice that you think
38:11
Speaker 1: everybody needs to know.
38:13
Speaker 2: I'm starting to dabble in crypto and NFTs.
38:18
Speaker 1: You are and you trendy woman, you.
38:22
Speaker 2: I know, I feel you know what it is. It's
38:23
Speaker 2: so funny. I feel like I was a part of
38:26
Speaker 2: Web one point oh, part of Web two point oh.
38:28
Speaker 2: I'm like, I have to like figure out three point
38:31
Speaker 2: oh stuff. It's so much more complicated though. It's so
38:34
Speaker 2: much more complicated. So I'm learning a lot, Like I'm
38:37
Speaker 2: attending a lot of webinars. There's a great women's community
38:41
Speaker 2: called BFF that Randy Zuckerberg and Britt Morin and a
38:45
Speaker 2: few other women started, So I'm learning a lot from them.
38:48
Speaker 2: But I think I would encourage people to, if they
38:53
Speaker 2: haven't already, like to get up to speed on it
38:56
Speaker 2: and just you know, because for me, like I learned
38:59
Speaker 2: by doing so I really like I have to do
39:02
Speaker 2: it to because because the concepts they are a bit complicated.
39:08
Speaker 2: So I feel like you just kind of have to
39:10
Speaker 2: do it, like you have to open up the wallet
39:12
Speaker 2: and then you have to like go to open see
39:14
Speaker 2: and like figure out, like you know, how to buy
39:16
Speaker 2: the NFT. And so I think getting educated that would
39:20
Speaker 2: be my advice right now. Just really getting educated and
39:23
Speaker 2: maybe dabbling a little bit. I would really encourage it.
39:25
Speaker 2: I'm having I'm having fun because I'm learning. It's like
39:28
Speaker 2: really interesting.
39:30
Speaker 1: If anybody is interested and like doesn't know where to start.
39:32
Speaker 1: There's a lot of great YouTube videos if people.
39:35
Speaker 2: Exploring, so many good YouTube videos.
39:38
Speaker 1: Okay, a book that changed your life something you think
39:41
Speaker 1: everyone should read.
39:42
Speaker 2: The Soul of Money by Lynn Twist, and it's you know,
39:47
Speaker 2: basically what it did for me was it really got
39:50
Speaker 2: me started on philanthropy and nonprofit work and just understanding
39:55
Speaker 2: like that, you know, we don't live on this earth
39:58
Speaker 2: rent free, and like what kind of impact do you
40:01
Speaker 2: want to make right like beyond like all the material
40:04
Speaker 2: stuff and when you think about legacy, when you think
40:07
Speaker 2: about wanting to leave this world in a better place,
40:10
Speaker 2: like you know, it really it really got me thinking
40:14
Speaker 2: about like where do I want to spend my time
40:16
Speaker 2: and what's the impact that I want to have on
40:18
Speaker 2: the world. So I loved that book.
40:20
Speaker 1: It's beautiful I've only I haven't read the book, I've
40:22
Speaker 1: only heard a podcast and it was really impactful. So
40:25
Speaker 1: thank you for the that was the push I needed.
40:27
Speaker 1: I'm going to read it. Okay, good, Okay, tell me
40:30
Speaker 1: when to stop step Okay, what expert do you want
40:35
Speaker 1: lessons from?
40:36
Speaker 2: Ah? This is a really good one. Ina Garten. I
40:42
Speaker 2: I love her so much, like I am such a
40:45
Speaker 2: fan girl. Oh there's just something about her. So I
40:49
Speaker 2: just think about, like the idea of just like cooking
40:52
Speaker 2: with her all day, like just having a day like
40:55
Speaker 2: when we're cooking together and I and I could just
40:58
Speaker 2: learn from her from the heart of Testine with olive oil,
41:03
Speaker 2: from the heart of Tuscany, and you know how her
41:05
Speaker 2: cute husband is always like there like in the background.
41:08
Speaker 2: But that would be like I'm going to manifest that.
41:10
Speaker 2: We have to manifest that happening.
41:12
Speaker 1: Okay, can you YEA thank you? And the last question
41:18
Speaker 1: I asked everybody, what is the smartest decision you've ever made?
41:21
Speaker 2: The smartest decision I ever made was realizing that there
41:28
Speaker 2: are many ways to create a family and going down
41:31
Speaker 2: the adoption path that we ended up adopting both of
41:34
Speaker 2: our kids at birth, and we were able to create
41:39
Speaker 2: this amazing family. But you know, sometimes you get stuck
41:42
Speaker 2: in your head of like, there's the one way to
41:43
Speaker 2: do it right, there's the one way to do it,
41:46
Speaker 2: And you can really apply this to pretty much anything.
41:50
Speaker 2: When you're stuck right in making a decision, it's thinking
41:54
Speaker 2: about like, what are the other options? There are always
41:57
Speaker 2: other options, So that, to me, that's the smartest decision
42:02
Speaker 2: we ever made, was to create our family through adoption.
42:06
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, friend, you are so full of wisdom.
42:09
Speaker 2: Oh Danielle, this was amazing. Thank you for having me.
42:39
Speaker 1: All right. Today is a good day. To have a
42:41
Speaker 1: good day. I'll see you next week.