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How to Achieve Liberating Leadership with the Support Challenge Matrix · Business Roundtable

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Hey, everybody here, we are Business round Table Podcast. We've
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: got some ogs in the house. We've got Bill Hatch
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Welcome back. Bill. Glad to have you, Charlie. Charlie, we
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: haven't had you in a while, so the force is
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: with you. Thank you, and Doxy is back with us.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: Hello.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: We're excited to have you guys back. So if you're
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: listening to us for the first time the Business round
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Table Podcast, we do have rotating guests on the podcast,
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: although I say Bill, Charlie and Doxy have been with
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: us on multiple podcasts, including the last one we just
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: did on the forty eight Laws of Power with Bill
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: and Doc c on there. So glad to have you
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: guys back on this one. And So I was talking
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: with you guys, and particularly you Charlie about some of
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: the tools that I use in my coaching program Giant
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: as a Giant Guide, and one of those ones we're
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: going to talk about tonight is called the Support Challenge Matrix.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: And so one of the things I think all of
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: you guys have talked about in previous episodes. We've talked
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: about leadership, we've talked about how do we show up
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  Speaker 1: As I like to use the term kind of that
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  Speaker 1: liberating leader, empowering person. Right, each one of us have
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: shared insights from our different perspective, you Bill as a
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: leadership guide and ethics Doccy from your experience and mergers
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: and acquisitions and getting folks in there, and Charlie from
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: your IT world and working with project managers and clients.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: And so what I thought we would talk about today
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  Speaker 1: is this challenge and specifically leadership that managing diverse teams
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: and getting these strategic goals and navigating all these complex
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: business environments. Is how do we do that in a
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: way that provides support and challenge. It's not either or,
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: but it's a both. And so how do we know
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: our tendencies in this way of do we tend to
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  Speaker 1: show more support, do we tend to show more challenge?
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  Speaker 1: And so that's where we're going to go in this episode.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: So those of you that are listening in lean in.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: You're going to listen to some seasoned business owners and
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: folks that have had experience working with teams here. And
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: that's why I'm really glad all of you are here
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: today as we look at this so as I'm going
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: to share the screen, so those of you are listening
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: you're gonna have to go back to YouTube or look
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: at us on videos you can see this. But well,
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: I'm going to describe this a little bit as an
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: unpack it as we go into this and share a
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: little bit about that, and then we're going to get
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: into some practical applications where I'm gonna ask each of
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: you guys here to share where you've had success or
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: challenge and where do you guys see yourself in this spectrum.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: So let me pull up my screen here and here
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: we go. All right, we're getting techy with it. Here
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: on the screen, you guys will see a graphic where
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: it's it is this matrix and so there are is
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: a simple matrix, but it's it's a four quadrants there, right,
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  Speaker 1: And so we have our ideal state, if you will
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  Speaker 1: that I think we all want to move to, like
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  Speaker 1: I said, being that liberated leader of creating a culture
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: of empowerment opportunity. Docsy, we've talked about like this winning
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: culture right your book. How do we get to this place?
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  Speaker 1: We have another area of domination or dominate where there's
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: a place of culture of fear or manipulation, another place
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  Speaker 1: where we have culture of entitleed and mistrust we call protect,
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  Speaker 1: and we have abdicate in the other in that other corner.
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  Speaker 1: So when you look at all of these things, you'll
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: see there's a kind of an access there where we
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  Speaker 1: have a place going from low challenge on our left
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  Speaker 1: to high challenge. That's kind of on that horizontal line,
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: and then that vertical line we have we go from
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  Speaker 1: low support to high support. So that is kind of
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  Speaker 1: our diagram, if you will. That's what we're going to
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  Speaker 1: be looking at. And each of these have different leadership styles,
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: if you will, And I think we would all agree
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  Speaker 1: we would want to be in this liberate place. But
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  Speaker 1: I don't think naturally most people don't just gravitate to that.
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  Speaker 1: They go to one of the other quadrants naturally. Right,
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  Speaker 1: So when you guys look at this, I'll start with you,
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  Speaker 1: Charlie first. When you just kind of look at this
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  Speaker 1: matrix and you see this laid out, what first jumps
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  Speaker 1: out at you?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure, and thanks for bringing this to light.
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  Speaker 3: I would say, out of these four quadrants, what jumped
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  Speaker 3: out jumped out at me on my uh natural tendencies,
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  Speaker 3: uh is the protect quadrant. I tend to be a protector.
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  Speaker 3: I tend to love supporting and being helpful and helping
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  Speaker 3: people and maybe a little bit too much and coddling
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: people and uh. And so therefore low challenge not only
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  Speaker 3: discredits their capabilities, but it also sets them up for
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  Speaker 3: that culture of entitlement, that that feeling of entitlement and
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  Speaker 3: and mistrust because I would then blow up. Uh you know,
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: when when things can I would I would basically things
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: would go wrong and I would kind of bottle it in.
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  Speaker 3: And then so after so many instances I would blow up.
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: It's like, uh, you know, like a volcanic explosion. They'll
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: be like, where'd that comes from?
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  Speaker 2: Right?
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  Speaker 3: So I was like, this is the tenth time you're
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: doing this, But in reality, I've never shared the first
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: nine times. So that really sets sets them up to
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: not be able to trust me. And obviously I don't
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  Speaker 3: trust them because I'm bottling up my resentment and thinking
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  Speaker 3: that they're not capable. And so it's not only load
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  Speaker 3: challenge in the sense where I'm not challenging them to
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  Speaker 3: step up, but you know, in my mind, in my
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  Speaker 3: own mind, I don't believe in them, like I give
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  Speaker 3: them too little credit to their ability to go figure
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: it out for themselves.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: Mhmm, Charlie, real quick, I know, and I'm gonna come
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: to Bill next. Uh, I don't remember off the top
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: of my head. Do you remember what your your voice
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: order is and the five voices?
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: That's a good question. I would have to pull it up.
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: If you can come back to me on them.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I would come back to you. Go back
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: and look at that because I'm curious. I just want
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: to compare and unless people listen to that, because I
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: think the five voices tool is really good tools again
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: use in conjunction with this. But Bill, how about you
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: when you look at this? You know, how does you know?
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: Well?
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  Speaker 1: What jumps out of you?
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: I have, I have a lot of experience in the
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: low support, high challenge quadrant of domination. I've done a
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: lot of work in the in the auto industry, and
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  Speaker 4: fear manipulation is definitely UH can't in UH in.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: The auto retail world.
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  Speaker 4: Mum hmm.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: It's yeah.
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  Speaker 4: It's at every level, you know, both salespeople to UH
• 7:30
  Speaker 4: to consumers, from managers to UH to to UH, the hoyploy,
• 7:37
  Speaker 4: every every every combination.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: You can think of.
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  Speaker 4: It's it's just a horrible, horrible, toxic place.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: Mm. Hmm. So they're they're they're saying, hey, you got
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: to make your numbers. You got to make this happen. You,
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: this is this, this has got to happen. It's very
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: high challenge, right, like, let's get it done.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, you know after a twelve hour, after twelve hours
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  Speaker 4: of work and you want to go home, Well that
• 8:01
  Speaker 4: makes you a halftimer because there's twenty four hours in
• 8:04
  Speaker 4: a day.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: You're a slacker. Come on, dude, ye you're only working
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: a half day. Oh man, how about you doxy When
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: you when you see this matrix laid out here, what
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: jumps out of you?
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  Speaker 2: Here?
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  Speaker 5: You're probably gonna you're probably gonna smile and left.
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  Speaker 2: You know, I'm sitting here looking at this.
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  Speaker 5: Matrix, and and I'm sure that you because you guys
• 8:28
  Speaker 5: are more intelligent than I am. It's it's really the
• 8:32
  Speaker 5: coordinate playing in mathematics, and that that is you know,
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  Speaker 5: in quater one, which is literate, I mean it's quat one,
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  Speaker 5: and both x and y values are both positive.
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  Speaker 2: And then when you go to quatter two.
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  Speaker 5: X value is negative, which means that it's a low challenge.
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  Speaker 5: And then of course you're high. So that why coordinat
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  Speaker 5: is positive, and then down below and the third quater
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  Speaker 5: the culture, the apathy and so forth both are negative
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  Speaker 5: in math addicts, and then of course the third one,
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  Speaker 5: the dominated is positive and the whiteboard's negative. It strikes
• 9:12
  Speaker 5: me kind of interesting. I don't know who made this
• 9:15
  Speaker 5: this quadrant system. Did you make this dat?
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: No? This is this is this has comes out of
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: a giant docs. But I think you're cluing in the
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: purpose of what what what I like about the Giant
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: tools is they make them because it says a lot
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  Speaker 1: with with a little you know, like you're saying.
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  Speaker 5: Well, it's interesting. I mean, just look at each one
• 9:35
  Speaker 5: of those quadrants. I mean, I don't know if your
• 9:39
  Speaker 5: question is based on how I look at things or
• 9:43
  Speaker 5: because you know they We could be in each one
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  Speaker 5: of these quadrants at any even.
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  Speaker 1: Time, absolutely for sure.
• 9:51
  Speaker 5: But I think what is what is good for this,
• 9:56
  Speaker 5: you know, this podcast and the people that are watching this,
• 9:59
  Speaker 5: is that just like uh, you know, the laws of power,
• 10:02
  Speaker 5: you have to recognize where you're where you're at, and
• 10:06
  Speaker 5: what quatter it is, and what leadership is kind of
• 10:11
  Speaker 5: doing to you and so forth and so on. I
• 10:15
  Speaker 5: think it's fascinating. But at the same time, we could
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  Speaker 5: be any one of these quatters in any even time,
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  Speaker 5: especially when about culture.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: Absolutely well, I want to do That's a great segue.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: Great job, Doxy. That's a great segue to My next
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: follow up question is practical application of this? How we're
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: going to do this? And Bill talked a little bit
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: about this. Charlie, can I put you back on the
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: spot again. I'm just curious to you were able to
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: find your voice order?
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: Uh not yet. I'm thinking there's I.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: Could probably find it for you. Remember that's okay. So
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: here's the thing I'll ask though, I'll ask because you
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: mentioned this Bill a little bit, So I want each
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: of you to look at this and then we'll come
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: back and get input on. But look at like you said, Doxy,
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: you're going to have a natural tendency. So Charlie, you
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: said your natural tendency is to fall probably more into
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: the protect quad. You're providing more high support than you
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: are a high challenge.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: Right.
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  Speaker 1: That's as a connector voice. That's my primary voice in
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: the five voice order. For those of you that haven't
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: done that, you can go back to our previous episodes
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: where we talked about the five voices or your voices
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: in leadership, but using that that framework. But as we
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: go through this, I want each of you guys to
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: look at where you have naturally showed up and we're
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: going to talk about challenges and and and successes there
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: of part of that. One thing that you can do
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: and I can do this with clients and Kurt doc
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: c this is one I think I would love to
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: do with your your clients too, is that you can
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: give them this and this has been a very powerful tool.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: So if you want really on a feedback is I
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: would say give this to your team and like literally
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: have them you know, uh zoom over here CUI. So
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: see guys, see my my cursor. Here there we go.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: So what you could do is literally you'll print this
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: out and like have your team go put a point
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: where they where you know, the point here here? Where
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: where are you in the spectrum right because you know,
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: you might think, yeah, I'm way over here and liberate
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: but they may say, yeah, you're maybe over here or
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: maybe over here, or maybe you're way over here, you know,
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: so you could plot, have them plot where where are
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: you right now? Like you said, Doxy, where are you today?
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: You could it could vary, but it would be an
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: eye opening experience. I think if you guys were willing
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: to do that, each one of us saying hey, you
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: know and anonymously, they're just going to point in there
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: and you're going to come back because they did this
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: what I've seen this with other giants do this where
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: the leader says, oh, They're all going to say I'm great,
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: I'm liberating, and they step out of the room and
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: then they get everybody to plot them and they're like, oh,
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: I'm not as great as I thought I was. I'm
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: not providing as much support or perhaps even challenge that
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: I thought I was. So I'll come back around to
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: you Bill first, And because you mentioned being in the
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: auto industry though, but I don't know, I don't get
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: the sense I want to get from you. What, in
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: your own words, where would you plot yourself?
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: Well?
• 13:15
  Speaker 4: I think it would depend in some ways on the situation.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: You know, there there are.
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: Times when a team doesn't need a lot of support.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: So you know, I could.
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: See, you know, they're they're doing they're doing regular tasks,
• 13:30
  Speaker 4: they're they're not you know, they're or or.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: They're not particularly being challenged, so they.
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: Don't really need the support, but you know, and that
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: happens from time to time. Yeah, I was. I was
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: doing some reading from Hersey and Blanchard and you know
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: about situational leadership, and I think in some ways the
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: descriptions are maybe a little unfair in some cases, you know,
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: because there are going to be time when when you're
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: you're doing the same old, same old stuff and uh,
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: and so you don't need the support. So you'll be
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: in that abdicate quadrant, but you haven't really abdicated anything.
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: You're just in that mode right at that particular time.
• 14:17
  Speaker 4: But what you're doing, and there are gonna be other
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: times when they need lots of support and uh, you know,
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: even though even though it might not be a particular
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: challenging time.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: M hm. Well, I think if you look at this,
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: you know, so I think I think maybe if you say, uh,
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: providing kind of the sweet spot if you I don't
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: know the sweet spot, but where you're providing enough of
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: like you said, Bill, maybe enough of the support. Maybe
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: you don't need high support, right, but you don't know,
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: you just need like baseline support, right. It's not like
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: you're removing support like I would say low support or
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: low challenge means you're you're pulling away when they actually
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: it's leaving a gap when they're at actually needs to
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: be enough, they're a foundation. Does that make sense? Yeah,
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: based a baseline. I think the baseline would be somewhere
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: around here. And and again you're able to throttle if
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: you will, uh and move in that in a healthy direction.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: How about you, Doxy what what about you here your
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: natural tendency?
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: I have a question for.
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: Me.
• 15:26
  Speaker 5: Have you, David, have you actually use this, uh, these
• 15:30
  Speaker 5: four quadrants in.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: In your job or in your work?
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this helped me. I'll get to you my real
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: world example. My real world example is it helped me
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: give words to the understanding of how I naturally show
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: up in high support, in low challenge or not providing challenge.
• 15:50
  Speaker 5: Meaning let me let me be I don't mean to
• 15:53
  Speaker 5: interrupt you, go ahead, let me be clear. I wasn't
• 15:56
  Speaker 5: really clear on my my question. What I mean is it.
• 16:02
  Speaker 5: Have you presented this to a group of people for
• 16:08
  Speaker 5: a reason to get an outcome?
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: Yes, that's my question.
• 16:12
  Speaker 5: Okay, So when you when you brought this to the
• 16:16
  Speaker 5: table to this you know, group of people, what were
• 16:19
  Speaker 5: you to give us kind of a sure.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: So the example is when you have a leader that's
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: frustrated with the team and the way the team showing
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: up got it right.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: Mm.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: One way you can use this tool is, like I
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: said kind of earlier, is allowing the team that you're
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: working with to give you a snapshot into how do
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: they see you showing up as the leader because you
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: may think you're actually one thing and you're not so
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: here in this case, this leader thought they were providing
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: plenty of support to their team. In reality, they were
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: very high challenge and very low support, and the team
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: felt very demoralized, disengaged, and he wasn't getting the results
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: that he thought he should be getting out of the
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: team because they just felt they just felt browbeaten. They
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: just felt very discouraged. And so once he saw the
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: eye opening of oh, this is how my team is
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: seeing me. I thought I was communicating one way and
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: it wasn't being received by the team. Yes, that makes sense.
• 17:26
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, you know what, that's really interesting And the
• 17:30
  Speaker 5: only reason why I'm pointing this out, I'm glad.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: Because you know.
• 17:37
  Speaker 5: Every every culture, you could bring this to the table
• 17:40
  Speaker 5: and you would get so many different perspectives on where
• 17:45
  Speaker 5: the leader in what quadrant?
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's totally fascinating to me.
• 17:53
  Speaker 5: I mean I've given things like this to cultures as
• 18:00
  Speaker 5: a you know, through the mergers and acquisitions and the
• 18:05
  Speaker 5: opinions if you will, of leadership and culture is just.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: An eye opener mm hm.
• 18:13
  Speaker 5: So I thank you for clarifying that, because I think
• 18:15
  Speaker 5: that they, even our audience that are listening to this,
• 18:19
  Speaker 5: it's good to understand how you'd actually use this in
• 18:23
  Speaker 5: moving forward for sure.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the goal this is a tool. It's
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: not the only you know, tool in the toolbox like
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: you said, Curtis. But I think the goal here is
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: how do we help people become creating a culture of
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: empowerment and opportunity like your book winning culture. This is
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: a way eyes and open up a dialogue and discussion.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: We can help, you know, mentor h help you know,
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: cross functional teams, uh, you know, and so somebody that
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: you know, again maybe showing high support like I was
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: showing hyper high support for a team, but I wasn't
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: showing high challenge and left a lot of people frustrated honestly,
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: like you know, because I weren't getting some people were
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: really wanting more, more challenge, and they needed some more
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: of that, and so I knew knew either I needed
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: to for me specifically, I needed to know my tendency
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: and then and or in this case, I look for
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: other people on the team that were more high challenge
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: and less important, like, hey, could you give me some mintucker,
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: give me your feedback or perspective. And they were very
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: clear with me like, yeah, you know what, you're not
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: clear on some things. Yeah, you're just you're caught and
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: coddling them and you're telling these things, but they really
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: need to have some clear points here for them to
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: be successful, to win. And so it was humbling, but
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: it was helpful for me to be a better leader.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: No, yeah, absolutely.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: So, Charlie, coming back to you, just some thoughts here,
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: what what you're you know you mentioned earlier, but would
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: you still say you fall on that protect quadron is
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: a natural tendency?
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's my default. Like if I'm not being intentional
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: about life, just breathing belief into people and expecting them,
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: expecting them to step up and actually challenge them, challenging
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: them to step up, that's my default motives operandi.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: Right, So yeah, I think you know just this, you know,
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: as we go through this, you know, we're just using
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: this as a way of understanding and how do we
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: create this culture of like I said, empowerment opportunity. Why
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: I like this is I really liked your observation Docs.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: I never thought about it this way. But your idea
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: of the positive positive or positive negative positive, you know
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: where that looks like when you're looking at mathematically. Yeah,
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think any of us want to
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: be in a culture or company that's abdicating, you know,
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: where there's low challenge and low support. Where you have
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: this basically people are checked out, you know, right.
• 21:06
  Speaker 5: And what's interesting about that, David, and this is why
• 21:08
  Speaker 5: I brought this up really.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: Is see, in the real world, we really live.
• 21:15
  Speaker 5: In quater one. I mean, what's really fascinating about this
• 21:21
  Speaker 5: quant one, deliberate, liberate rather is that in quater one,
• 21:26
  Speaker 5: that's how that's where the business is because you can't
• 21:29
  Speaker 5: operate a business in quater two, three or four because
• 21:33
  Speaker 5: there's negative values in there. I think that the idea
• 21:38
  Speaker 5: behind all of this is really to move into quarters two, three,
• 21:43
  Speaker 5: and four, is to move into quater one.
• 21:46
  Speaker 6: Yes, absolutely mean, and that's what's so fascinating about this
• 21:51
  Speaker 6: because as Charlie mentioned, is yeah, we we fall into
• 21:55
  Speaker 6: these other quadrants.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: Leaders do cultures do people.
• 22:00
  Speaker 5: But ultimately, what what we're really really trying to do
• 22:04
  Speaker 5: is stay in quantum on yes, empowering people and creating opportunity.
• 22:09
  Speaker 5: You know, list goes on and on and all.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: But you know there are digitis.
• 22:14
  Speaker 5: I mean, and that's why this grid then that you
• 22:17
  Speaker 5: have up here, this matrix, if you will, is really
• 22:20
  Speaker 5: fascinating to me.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: I mean I like it.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: Mm hmmm, well I think I and I agree we
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: want to go in this direction. I think of entropy.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: Things are always breaking down, right, and I think that
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: there's this place of we're in a what's it, there's
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: a there's a saying, there's a there's this, There's nothing
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: that stays stays this, nothing that just stays like doesn't change.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: It's either being built up or breaking down that you know.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: So what you're what I hear you saying, Doxy is like,
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: you know, when we're intentional with our energy and our
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: focus of providing high challenge and high support, this is
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: where we create that synergy of what makes a lasting
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: business and growth and organization. What happens is we take
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: our foot off the gas on one or the other.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: You know, whether we continue on with just high high
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: challenge starts to take over our high support, or worst
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: case scenario, both of those diminish. And I think we
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: see this. I mean, how many of you guys have
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: been to a business it started It actually might have
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: been in this at one point, but it's sunk into abdicate.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: You know, you're like, what in the world I went
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: to this business and I've thought of restaurants, there's other
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: places where I've gone, and at one point I'm like, oh,
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: this is this is the bomb. I love this place.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: And I go in there and I'm like, come in later,
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, what is going on if you don't
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: seem to care. They're not engaged. The food is subprime
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: using a restaurant food is subpar, you know, and I'm like,
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: they've lost they've lost this, you know, right, what if
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: your guys is an experience there, Bill, I'll just go
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: to you first.
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Well, it's it's actually really easy for a connected leader,
• 24:05
  Speaker 4: you know, a leader who's uh, who's who's engaged with
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: their their.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: People, who are concerned about their people.
• 24:13
  Speaker 4: I guess to slip into that low challenge mode because
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: they don't want to be hard on the people. They
• 24:20
  Speaker 4: don't want to be seen as a as a bad guy,
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: you know.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: And uh and so.
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: It's really easy to slip into, uh, into that one.
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: But I think most of those situations would probably slip
• 24:32
  Speaker 4: into the protect mode, you know, because those connected leaders
• 24:36
  Speaker 4: still want to give a lot of great support for
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: for their people. But but yeah, I've I definitely the
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: the restaurant example is definitely relatable. Uh, you know, as
• 24:49
  Speaker 4: far as you go in one day and it's great,
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: and you go in another day and it stinks, you know,
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: and uh, and a lot of businesses that happens u
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: you know, big box retailers fall into, uh, into that
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: category a lot because it's always the same thing. There's
• 25:09
  Speaker 4: no new there are no new challenges to overcome anymore,
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: and there's no reason to support the people because everybody
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: is concerned over.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: Their own jobs and uh.
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: And so a lot of a lot of these retailers,
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: you go in and the employees just don't care, They
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: don't they don't give a darn about anything, and and
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: nobody nobody expects much out of them.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Really right, And it's a matter of time
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: at that point where it well that how long will
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: the business survive? I want to come to you, Charlie next.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: I want your input here, Charlie, from from yourself and
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: from your culture of of the the businesses you've worked
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: in and participated in. You know, so you know, where
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: have you seen like you you talked about your experience
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: of but when you know you need that high challenge,
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: how you how have you found that charge have you?
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: How have you either brought it in yourself?
• 26:06
  Speaker 5: Right?
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: Other people come in to augment that because you need
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: that too in the in the culture.
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure. Well, first and foremost it comes down
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: to how your your interpretation of the word challenge, right,
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: because oftentimes, uh, the story that we have about the
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: word challenge or the meaning that we add to that
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: word is confrontation or combative, and that's not necessarily the case.
• 26:35
  Speaker 5: Uh.
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: And obviously everybody has their own interpretation of that word.
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: Like for me, I can speak for myself. I have
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: a story of how like challenging people is like it's
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: like you're getting into a fight. You know. So therefore
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: the I guess peacemaking side of me wants to not
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: have you know, confrontation or or a situation what do
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: you call it? Contentious situations? But so that's not what
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: it means at all. And in fact, I learned that
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: challenge is one of the four languages of leadership UH,
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: you know, the other three being you know, vision casting, storytelling,
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: and and giving you assignments. And so knowing that that's
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: one of the critical UH leadership languages, then my growth
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: path over the past years of you know, after having
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: awareness of this blind spot of you know, having the
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: tendency to caddle people and not set that high standard
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: and cast that vision for the challenge people to step
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: up into to what they're capable of. Is that that's
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: been my growth path is to learn how to challenge
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: people and learn how to encourage uh and invite people
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: to become more than and yeah, to become more than
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: what they believe they're capable of.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: Mm hm.
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: And so I like the word liberate in that in
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: that quadrant because it's not just liberating them to be
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: fully self expressed, but it also liberates you as a
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: business owner to not have to run an adult daycare
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: and so, you know, so it's a win win all around.
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: And I like Doxy's mathematical approach that yeah, that is
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: the only quadrant that's positive positive because the other quadront
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: has a negative and well, I guess the negative negative
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: two natives. I guess if you if you want to
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: positively fail, then that's the question that you want to
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: live in.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: I want to come to exactly in a minute, but
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: I want of the touch basis because I would I
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: did look up your your voice, your voice did you
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: find Yeah, you're pioneer connector, which I would say pioneers
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: typically maybe go more in the high challenge. But what
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking is you have a connector voice too, Charlie.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: So because of your so connected oriented as your second voice,
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: and it's it's weighted there with pioneer and candidly, if
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: you're a pioneer, you're very your you. Pioneers typically have
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: high challenge, so they want to get there. However, if
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: they get a lot of negative feedback, they might adjust there.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: And that's what you're talking about, Charlie, is you've probably
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: like maybe in the past naturally meant wanted to be
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: high challenge, but you've adjusted and leaned back more in
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: your high support connector voice, and your second third voice
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: is creative, which is also very open to new things.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: And so you probably learned, Oh, I can actually build
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: relationships better in the high support. Do that makes sense?
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: No, I've definitely been in that dominant quadrant and that's
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: backfired because I literally made my employees cry, you know
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: so without intending to, because I was just not It
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: just made them feel like nothing was ever good enough,
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: you know So I think that's what got me gun
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: shy and and and retreated into the protect quadrant.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: Right, Well, I want to come so here's something I
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: want to about, doc see, because this is something I
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: think of of mergers acquisitions, DOXI. I would love to
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: get your take on here, because I hear I hear like, hey,
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: we're bringing in a new or we're bringing a new CEO.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: They're going to turn the ship around. Right, things are
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: not going in the right direction. I hear in my mind,
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: I hear high challenge, not necessarily high support. And you
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: see a lot of sometimes fear or what's going to
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: happen to my job? Where am I going to land?
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: What spending your experience in in in that dock? See,
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: how could somebody that's coming into a leadership position like
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: that a CEO position or working emergency do it successfully
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: to where they're not. They do provide challenge, but not
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: in a way that neglects support.
• 31:02
  Speaker 5: Well, you you just basically answered the whole your own question.
• 31:07
  Speaker 5: I mean, you know all of those things. Fear, you know, manipulation,
• 31:12
  Speaker 5: I mean.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: There's just so many things. You know, humans, we we
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: just don't like change.
• 31:17
  Speaker 5: So when when you have a merger, what you know,
• 31:23
  Speaker 5: it doesn't it doesn't matter, you know, call it a
• 31:25
  Speaker 5: B C business and D E F business and ones
• 31:29
  Speaker 5: acquiring the other. It could be in the same industry,
• 31:32
  Speaker 5: same everything, but the culture is always different.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: Why, because humans are different, We look at.
• 31:39
  Speaker 5: Things differently, and so when it comes to a merger,
• 31:43
  Speaker 5: you're you're automatically going to have a sense of fear
• 31:48
  Speaker 5: and even manipulation. And so that's why when when going
• 31:53
  Speaker 5: into a merger and something like this happens, all the
• 31:58
  Speaker 5: checks and balances need to be in order. And systems
• 32:01
  Speaker 5: I always, I always, I always talk about this. You've
• 32:05
  Speaker 5: heard me talk about systems over and over and over again.
• 32:09
  Speaker 5: And there's a reason for it. Charlie knows what I'm
• 32:13
  Speaker 5: talking about.
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: I know that.
• 32:14
  Speaker 5: You know, Bill, you understand what I'm talking about. Systems
• 32:18
  Speaker 5: are so important, extremely important because it allows humans to
• 32:24
  Speaker 5: actually adjust to the new leader once you have a system.
• 32:30
  Speaker 5: But if you don't have systems in place, it's chaos,
• 32:33
  Speaker 5: it really is.
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: And you don't have systems, you don't have a business.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: You really don't. I mean you really don't.
• 32:40
  Speaker 5: And one business has their system and their way of
• 32:44
  Speaker 5: doing things, and now when you start to acquire another company,
• 32:49
  Speaker 5: you're going to put in these systems and it just
• 32:52
  Speaker 5: you know, it makes me, it makes people nervous.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: And that's why you just went from quater one to
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: two three or.
• 33:00
  Speaker 7: For sure, yeah, you know, especially if you now if
• 33:04
  Speaker 7: you are acquiring the company, it's it's you're in better
• 33:08
  Speaker 7: shape but as an employee or manager or whatever.
• 33:11
  Speaker 5: But when it's the other way around, it's chaos for sure.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: Well, you just brought up a good a good point.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: You.
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: In fact, I was just talking to a client about
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: this today where we're talking about systems processes, right, and
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: you know, we have this one company. They do a
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: lot of uh work with biologists, they do a lot
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: of fieldwork, and one of the things they're challenged with
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: is some of the biologists or the people are not
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: getting to the field or they're assignment starting their assignments
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: in an appropriate time, there's there's leeway there, but they're
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: not posting. So we're literally going through this process of
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: how do we challenge them to be like, this is
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: what's required, but yet at the same time support and
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: communicate that message in a way that gets them engaged
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: and understands why we need to be again moving into
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: this liberate place. Uh. What happens is sometimes it's like, well,
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: things aren't working, so we just kind of hit hard
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: on one thing or the other. And so that's why
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: it's again having a team and hearing from each other
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: to push pull in this to understand. That's why I
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: love the five Voices framework too. Candidly one of the
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: things actually just for you guys too that are listening
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: in here. I just actually got certified on five Voices
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: for teams this this past week, so I'm super excited
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: about that. But there's a whole series of workshops that
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: go in there about how do we use this And
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: this is just one of the pieces actually do in there,
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: because there's a lot to it, and we will then
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: naturally tend to go to you know, one of these
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: or the other and not necessarily always get in this
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: liberate mode. But again we can slip out of it.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: That's just said, where we can be here. Like you said, Curtis,
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: I think it's really important everybody eye opening that just
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: you don't stay there. Unfortunately, we don't stay in any
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: one of any one of these you know, quadrants. They
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: can all be moved around. So don't just think, well,
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: I'm here, I made it. You know, you could sink
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: down you could you know, think down one way or
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: the other, or down here altogether as a whole organization.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: So you know, yeah, go ahead, Doxy.
• 35:17
  Speaker 5: I was just gonna I was just going to say,
• 35:18
  Speaker 5: I was I was just you know, I relate to
• 35:21
  Speaker 5: these things, to sports a lot of the time. And
• 35:26
  Speaker 5: if you take you take one of the best coaches
• 35:30
  Speaker 5: in the game, which is the Alabama coach who just
• 35:34
  Speaker 5: retired saving and then you take the New England Patriots Belicheck,
• 35:41
  Speaker 5: that has yet to find a head coaching job, you know,
• 35:45
  Speaker 5: and both of them will say the same things. See,
• 35:47
  Speaker 5: they spend a lot of time in quandary one. They
• 35:51
  Speaker 5: spend a lot of time with great success. But both
• 35:55
  Speaker 5: of them, both of them will say and have said
• 35:58
  Speaker 5: that times have changed and so is people. And so
• 36:03
  Speaker 5: that's why when you go into a restaurant, you know,
• 36:07
  Speaker 5: two weeks ago and it was spectacular and then you
• 36:10
  Speaker 5: walk in the day and it's chaos.
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: Because things change.
• 36:16
  Speaker 5: But what what really is interesting to me is that
• 36:21
  Speaker 5: is it the system that is changing or is it
• 36:23
  Speaker 5: the people that is that are relating to the system
• 36:28
  Speaker 5: and who's not adapting to to the situation.
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: If that makes make sense, that makes a lot of sense.
• 36:36
  Speaker 5: Because I think that you know, you have a system,
• 36:39
  Speaker 5: and systems are extremely important. But at the same time,
• 36:42
  Speaker 5: and I've said this in the in the other podcasts,
• 36:44
  Speaker 5: is that the system has to be able to be
• 36:48
  Speaker 5: there for humans to adapt and maybe change and grow
• 36:53
  Speaker 5: actually is the better word for it.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: Within that system, it's.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: Just well, i'll give you I'll give you an example,
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: real world examples. Since you brought that one up, DOXY
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: using the using the five voices framework, there's one voice
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: is called the Guardian. Guardians are very risk averse. They're
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: very process oriented, very step by step, so they're very
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: high challenge for the most part, DOXY and that's very great,
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: very very much needed. But if if you have you
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: know high support, but you know everybody is. If not
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: everybody is or a lot of those people, you have
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: only a few of those folks. Uh, and they're they're
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: they're pushing this like this is the system, this has
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: to be done dad. But they don't feel supported. And
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: this happened with me and I have another previous company
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: where I was more of the support. So actually I
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: was trying to lean on this this this person in
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: the organization, but they didn't value the support as much.
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: They were very low. They were very much in this squadron, right,
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: and they didn't they didn't value support. They're just like,
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: you should just get it. And I'm like, let's work together.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: I need you, you need me. But what happened was
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: he he was like, let's just keep the system. And
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: the system is the system. I got the best system
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: in the world, but nobody wants to use the system.
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, well that doesn't really help us, does it.
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: Everyone started to leave because they didn't feel supported. So
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: the system is great and we absolutely need it and
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: we can pour gas on the fire and have it
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: roar if everybody is working together and they feel supported,
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: but it won't do us any good. That the best
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: system in the world and nobody use it. Right, Yeah,
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: I think that's the challenge. I think I think that
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: would be a challenge too. That a lot of I
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: will say from solo opreneurs and other people that are
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: in small businesses. They're trying the challenge or trying to
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: get everything just right too in a system. And I
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: think that's great. But you also got to say, like
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: what is what is you know good enough? Where are
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: we getting to where we can challenge is good? But
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: support and getting it out there? I mean, Bill, what
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: do we just talk about in our book discussion? Right?
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: You have a really high threshold of your book, right, Like, really, Hi,
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: we talked to that all these things you want to
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: have to do. I can believe the how high Bill's
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: challenge is super high, but like, how do we get there?
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: And mo has giving you support right and trying to
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: get you to move on that? Just share briefly on that.
• 39:12
  Speaker 4: Well, I've been writing this series of books and and
• 39:18
  Speaker 4: it turns out that i'm writing I'm probably writing.
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: Way too much.
• 39:24
  Speaker 4: Because you know, there's a lot of information to give
• 39:27
  Speaker 4: and a lot of well a lot of support that
• 39:31
  Speaker 4: I want to give to the people who would be
• 39:33
  Speaker 4: using using my models and you know, but but it
• 39:38
  Speaker 4: may be that the challenge is too high.
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: I may have gone a little overboard.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: So it's like pulling it still. We want the challenge,
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: we want the support, it's just getting Maybe it's further
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: over here. I'm sorry, my mask moves is over. Maybe
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: it's further right over here, not as much as we
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: have you know here quite yet or you know whatever.
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: We're plotting it, but we want to get you into
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: that lib rate, not stuck down here right. This is
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: where you're going to really still see that that blasting impact.
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I was. I was gonna say I I
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: have that tendency too, built of getting into the weeds
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: and wanting to go into every little detail on how
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: to do something. But I've learned that to be high challenge,
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: I have to learn to let go of that and
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: learn to paint the vision, cast a vision and and
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: let people know what what needs to be done, like
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: the objective, and challenge people to leverage tools to work smarter.
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: Like for example, our CEO challenged me to leverage AI
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: in my role. And so obviously there's quite a few
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: different AI note takers within zoom. So I was able
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: to leverage one of those and and it's made my
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: life much not much better, And it allowed me to
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: send summaries of our meetings instead of just having to
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: manually sit there, I mean sit there and manually type
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: out a summary of what was discussed. So that's been
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: a huge live saver. And then you know, continuing like internally,
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: are are integrator if you will, if anybody of any
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: of you in the audience or our panelists are familiar
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: with the whole EOS model from the book Traction, Uh,
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: so we do have an integrator person internally. Where he
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: invited me and challenged me to look into power Automate
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: from Microsoft so that I can automate uh some of
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: the routine tasks that I have been en leverage Microsoft
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: Copilot or just the AI that's built into the support
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: that's built into the platform to help create those automation
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: as opposed to me trying to manually create the automation.
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: So, I mean, there's definitely ways in Charlie Well, we
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: probably have a whole nother episode on that to talk
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: with you. In fact, this in fact, this this for
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: those of you are listening, we're having an episode released
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: this week on incorporating AI into business. And so for
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: those of you that we have different guests on all
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: the time, so be sure if you if you're listening
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: to this one, if you missed it, go back and
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: listen to that one. A lot of we have a
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: lot of great uh uh uh topics coming up here
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: on the podcast episodes. So I do want to wrap
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: it up here. I appreciate you guys thoughts. I'm gonna
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: come to you Curtis, Bill and then Charlie for final
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: thoughts here. But Curtis, you've really actually opened even in
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: my eyes and seeing this for the first time, seeing
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: with your fresh set of eyes. But what would you
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: say is kind of a key takeaway for you or
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: those of those If you're looking at this, you would say, hey,
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: you know consider this as you're leading. How you know
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: you can be that liberating leader?
• 42:58
  Speaker 5: Well, I would say that said, you know, we're humans,
• 43:04
  Speaker 5: we are fallible, and it's that simple. But don't take
• 43:08
  Speaker 5: that as a negative. And I like these four quadrants.
• 43:12
  Speaker 5: It's we recognize that if we recognize A that we're
• 43:18
  Speaker 5: folliable and B we're going to make mistakes. Don't be
• 43:21
  Speaker 5: too hard on yourself, because your goal is to be
• 43:25
  Speaker 5: the best that you could possibly be, and we need
• 43:29
  Speaker 5: help with that. We need other people to actually tell
• 43:35
  Speaker 5: us what our strengths and our weaknesses are.
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: You can ask my wife, I tell you what.
• 43:41
  Speaker 5: She's in the next room, probably listening to this conversation,
• 43:45
  Speaker 5: and I'll show me the first one that says that
• 43:49
  Speaker 5: I just I'm stubborn and stubborn can be when she
• 43:52
  Speaker 5: points out the mistakes or shall we say, the weaknesses,
• 43:57
  Speaker 5: and I will butt heads with it until I sit
• 44:00
  Speaker 5: back and I think about it for a while and
• 44:03
  Speaker 5: I realized, Yeah, it was just an absolute dealing. So
• 44:08
  Speaker 5: you know, it takes time and it takes a lot
• 44:11
  Speaker 5: of effort to be the best that you can be.
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: Uh, And that's it.
• 44:16
  Speaker 5: I mean, most people will make excuses for for not
• 44:20
  Speaker 5: being the best, when in fact they should actually work
• 44:23
  Speaker 5: their tails up for being the best. That's my whole
• 44:26
  Speaker 5: point or input to this matrix thing.
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: That that's a great feedback, Doxie, I hear you being
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: very coachable. I think that's that's what I hear.
• 44:36
  Speaker 5: Hear you say.
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: How about you? Bill? Final thoughts? Theres are wrapping up
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: this well?
• 44:42
  Speaker 4: I think I think a visual aid like this can
• 44:45
  Speaker 4: definitely help when you're using you know, various feedback systems
• 44:50
  Speaker 4: from from your your people, you know, just just being
• 44:55
  Speaker 4: able to do okay. So you know, it's like, so
• 44:58
  Speaker 4: they're feeling a little titled and a little uh and
• 45:02
  Speaker 4: and a little.
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: With a little mistrust there.
• 45:07
  Speaker 4: So yeah, a little mistrust there, you know, a little
• 45:09
  Speaker 4: apathy and uh and all of so maybe we need
• 45:12
  Speaker 4: to move the challenge up a little bit and uh
• 45:16
  Speaker 4: and see what happens. But yeah, yeah, use those those
• 45:21
  Speaker 4: feedback systems, whether they're surveys or or what.
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: You know what all else. Yeah, absolutely have to figure
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: out where you are on this. And I always say,
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: and I'm gonnome to you, Charlie in a minute, but
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: I think like you also do. Doxy said, all of
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: us here on this podcast, we're all here to help
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: serve you. That's why we have this podcast. Reach out
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: to any one of us, Docsy build myself, Try leave
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: comments in there because we will each respond to you.
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: The whole point of this is to show give you
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: guys value, show that we have we've we've learned and
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: applying this sharing with each other. So I appreciate you
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: just suggesting that bill to look at this. This is
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: just a resource, but we're resources you as well. I'd
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: love to hear from you, how about Charlie final thoughts?
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so obviously right now, based on this episode, the
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: the goal is to constantly bring ourselves to that quadrant
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: of liberation or liberate. And so just I think less
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: is more, right, Like, the more we complicate this, the
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: more we're going to walk away from this session and
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: this episode and be like, oh, that was just too
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: much information, way over my head. So I would just
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: boil it down to two things, right, Like number one,
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: the high challenge is think big. Right, there's a book literally,
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: The Magic of Thinking Big. And I'm always reminded of
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: how Walt Disney determines what ideas to actually execute. Is
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: if he's with his board of you know, management or
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: leadership team or directors or whatnot, and everybody is in
• 46:59
  Speaker 3: a agreement with something, then he says, Okay, that's that's
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: not the idea. If everybody opposes it, then he's like, okay,
• 47:10
  Speaker 3: let's make that happen. And so that's high challenge, right
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: If it's already if you already know how to do it,
• 47:16
  Speaker 3: then you're not setting the bar very high, and so
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: that's number one. Number two is the high support. Just
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: like humans, we need CPR to come back to life,
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: to breathe, live, into into your business, into your people.
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: You need to operate from EPR. Encourage, praise, recognize, and
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: that's what the high support is. Encourage people to step
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: up and be be the possibility, right, be what they're
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: they're capable of. Praise the effort and the outcome that
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: you want to see, and recognize it, you know, and
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: always recognize, publicly criticize.
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: So the EPR and dream big, that's the takeaway.
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: Awesome, awesome, Charlie. I want to thank you Bill Doxy
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: Charlie coming back on here. Always great to have you guys,
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: Amazing thoughts, insights. For those of you that are listening
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: to this, go find us and see us on YouTube.
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: We do make this a broadcast on LinkedIn as well,
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: so we would love to connect with you on any
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: of those social platforms. I know you all are on
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: those different ones as well, so reach out to us.
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: We'd love to hear from you. Leave a comment if
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: you would like to be a participant in the Business
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: Roundtable podcast, let me know. We continue to have new
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: guests come on the show as well, So just thank
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: you guys, appreciate you having back on here until next time.
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: Thank care everybody, Thank you, have a good time.