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Cubs mailbag: When is Cade Horton coming to Chicago? · North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast

0:05
Speaker 1: Welcome into Northside Territory. Foul Territory Networks Cubs podcast. I'm
0:09
Speaker 1: Sahadev Sharma with my partner Patrick Mooney. We are your
0:12
Speaker 1: Cubs beat writers over at the Athletic. Patrick, let's do
0:16
Speaker 1: a mail bag episode. Always a good time. The fans
0:21
Speaker 1: always have plenty of questions. Things are going really well
0:25
Speaker 1: for the Cubs right now. Right we just saw another
0:28
Speaker 1: series win. They beat Paul's Skeins on Wednesday or Thursday.
0:34
Speaker 2: That was pretty impressive, was.
0:39
Speaker 1: You know, after a tough loss on Wednesday with a
0:43
Speaker 1: pretty scary scene with the fan falling from the stands
0:47
Speaker 1: like a lot of like that was hard to watch
0:51
Speaker 1: as just like an observer from afar, I can't imagine
0:54
Speaker 1: what those players and coaches and everyone is feeling at
0:58
Speaker 1: that moment, and and you know, just getting through the
1:02
Speaker 1: rest of that game. Uh, But obviously our thoughts are
1:06
Speaker 1: with that person and their family and hopefully they're all
1:11
Speaker 1: right and and and come through this event all right.
1:14
Speaker 1: It's scary. I think there's a couple of stories out
1:16
Speaker 1: on the Athletic, Uh what happened?
1:19
Speaker 2: And then background about that man.
1:22
Speaker 1: Uh, But back to baseball, the Cubs are playing well.
1:27
Speaker 1: It's uh, it's you know, I think we uh, I
1:31
Speaker 1: think we expected them to keep it going against the pirates,
1:34
Speaker 1: but it's it's, you know, I think it was important
1:36
Speaker 1: to actually see that. Uh, there's a there's some obvious questions, right,
1:42
Speaker 1: and here's the first one. The first one is the
1:44
Speaker 1: obvious one. We just wrote about this. Uh, I didn't
1:47
Speaker 1: edit this, so apologize for the lack of lack of
1:51
Speaker 1: capitalization here if you're if you're watching on YouTube. But
1:55
Speaker 1: how long can the Cubs afford to have this play
1:58
Speaker 1: at third base before looking to make a move by acquisition.
2:03
Speaker 1: That's from Tyler Dershall, regular emailer contributor to the show. Yeah. Look,
2:10
Speaker 1: I think it's the obvious question. I think we all
2:12
Speaker 1: we're all seeing the same thing. We're seeing mistakes at
2:15
Speaker 1: third base defensively, you know, subpar production. Offensively. I think
2:23
Speaker 1: what I like the first thing that comes to mind
2:29
Speaker 1: that we wrote about. And I was doing research for this,
2:33
Speaker 1: and honestly, Patrick, it was kind of mind boggling, like
2:36
Speaker 1: he is, just there's a dearth of talent there right now.
2:40
Speaker 2: It's funny.
2:40
Speaker 1: I was looking this up, right, and I just kept
2:42
Speaker 1: going back in years, like trying to figure out where
2:46
Speaker 1: does this end?
2:46
Speaker 2: When? When does this get good again?
2:50
Speaker 1: From nineteen fifty on this is I believe I wrote
2:56
Speaker 1: it was a third worst season currently by a way
3:00
Speaker 1: to runs created plus offensively for third base, third base
3:04
Speaker 1: is equal to shortstop only better than second base among positions.
3:10
Speaker 1: That's just not what we grew up watching, you and
3:13
Speaker 1: I grew up watching. And it's like as recently as
3:16
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, obviously, Chris Bryan's MVP season, third base was
3:22
Speaker 1: the like had one of the best seasons in the
3:25
Speaker 1: history in like the last seventy five years, right, So
3:28
Speaker 1: it's just a bad position right now. It's just the
3:31
Speaker 1: Cubs aren't good. They're not the worst team in baseball.
3:36
Speaker 1: They're bottom six, I believe, twenty fifth in war but
3:42
Speaker 1: like nineteenth or twentieth in offense. If you're looking at
3:44
Speaker 1: way to runs created plus, like, that's kind of shocking
3:47
Speaker 1: to me that they're not even that bad, right Like,
3:50
Speaker 1: come like, it's just like there's just not a lot
3:54
Speaker 1: of third base talent out there.
3:57
Speaker 3: No, And I think, can we take a step back here,
4:01
Speaker 3: because I sometimes see, like, why do you mention Alex Bregman,
4:05
Speaker 3: Why do you write about you know, the one, you know,
4:08
Speaker 3: bad spot on the field, and it's like, well, because
4:11
Speaker 3: that's what people within the organization are talking about, Like
4:16
Speaker 3: this is why it stung the Cubs so badly in
4:20
Speaker 3: February when Bragman chose the Red Sox. Because they think
4:25
Speaker 3: about the worst case scenarios, they wonder like and they
4:28
Speaker 3: also think about the best case scenarios, like how do
4:30
Speaker 3: you build a team that gives you the absolute maximum
4:35
Speaker 3: best chance to play deep into October Winter World Series
4:39
Speaker 3: And for this particular year, Alex Bregman was that player.
4:43
Speaker 3: So okay, we move on from that. But then you
4:47
Speaker 3: see matt y'all gets a really quick hook and gets
4:51
Speaker 3: sent back down, you know, gauge workmen. Not surprisingly, was
4:54
Speaker 3: a guy we talked a lot about in spring training
4:56
Speaker 3: and like didn't even make it all the way through April.
5:00
Speaker 3: I think Nikki Lopez and John Birdie are very solid
5:03
Speaker 3: role players. Uh definitely have been part of playoff teams.
5:08
Speaker 3: You can see them making contributions in a variety of manners,
5:12
Speaker 3: but not really like an everyday third baseman, not like
5:16
Speaker 3: kind of the traditional way you know, we thought about it.
5:18
Speaker 3: So this is something that's nagging at the Cubs and
5:22
Speaker 3: you see it in moments like you know, vdel Bruhan
5:26
Speaker 3: against the Phillies on Sunday night of kind of playing back,
5:31
Speaker 3: you know, against Trey Turner and that allows an insurance
5:34
Speaker 3: run to score in the tenth inning. So like, if
5:37
Speaker 3: you want to be that team that plays multiple rounds
5:43
Speaker 3: in October and seriously contends for a World Series championship,
5:46
Speaker 3: like you you're not gonna have like all stars at
5:50
Speaker 3: every single position, but you also want, you know, dynamic
5:55
Speaker 3: players everywhere, Guys that you know, can hit you a
5:59
Speaker 3: big home run or can and make all the defensive plays.
6:01
Speaker 3: And right now the Cubs have not had that, and
6:03
Speaker 3: I think you're mind bending historical reference points kind of
6:10
Speaker 3: shows that it's going to be hard to go out
6:13
Speaker 3: and get that guy. That's probably why Matt Shaw is
6:16
Speaker 3: their best bet at the moment. But I will say
6:18
Speaker 3: before like totally running off the possibility. Like in twenty
6:22
Speaker 3: twenty three, we thought the Cubs were like definite sellers
6:26
Speaker 3: and then they got hot, and not only did they
6:28
Speaker 3: retain Cody Bellinger, who might have been the best hitter
6:31
Speaker 3: who could have been moved, they went out and got
6:34
Speaker 3: Jamer Candelario, who was probably the most accomplished hitter moved
6:39
Speaker 3: at that deadline, I believe, certainly one of the top hitters.
6:42
Speaker 3: And then even last year when they were sort of selling,
6:45
Speaker 3: sort of buying, they went out and got an all
6:47
Speaker 3: star third basement in esach parades. So if they have
6:51
Speaker 3: a team that's either running away with the Nationalague central
6:55
Speaker 3: or has like a comfortable lead or maybe a dwindling lead,
6:59
Speaker 3: and they want to to get to the next level,
7:01
Speaker 3: I have no doubt they're going to exhaust every possibility
7:04
Speaker 3: to try and find that difference making third third basement.
7:08
Speaker 3: I just don't think it's gonna happen in May.
7:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're you're not finding that that player, you know,
7:15
Speaker 1: in the next month or two, you know, like it
7:18
Speaker 1: we'll see who falls out of the race and what
7:21
Speaker 1: happens right there. There could there could be an option, right,
7:25
Speaker 1: I don't want to assume that, you know what, Like
7:29
Speaker 1: you could make the argument that the Blue Jays should
7:31
Speaker 1: move Boba shet right, I don't know what his market
7:34
Speaker 1: would be.
7:34
Speaker 2: I don't know it.
7:36
Speaker 1: You know, if people will pay a higher rate for
7:39
Speaker 1: him because he can play shortstop. Right, So would the
7:42
Speaker 1: Cubs be kind of pushed out of that bidding if
7:46
Speaker 1: they're if the Blue Jays were to move him, you
7:48
Speaker 1: also have to consider in that scenario that the Blue
7:51
Speaker 1: Jays are kind of like in when now mode, right,
7:54
Speaker 1: like those that that for an office is feeling more
7:57
Speaker 1: pressure than Hoyer and Carter Hawkins in this front office.
8:01
Speaker 1: Right So I'm just assuming that he's not going to
8:05
Speaker 1: be available. They're going to keep trying to push in
8:08
Speaker 1: unless they just fall fifteen twenty games under five hundred.
8:12
Speaker 1: I just don't see how they start selling aggressively. It
8:16
Speaker 1: may make sense, you know, because he's his contract ends
8:21
Speaker 1: at the end of the season, but it's going to
8:24
Speaker 1: be I'd be surprised if they move into cell mode.
8:28
Speaker 1: There's just not like Nolan Ronado is not a realistic option, right, Like,
8:33
Speaker 1: they probably have to overpay for him. I never want
8:36
Speaker 1: to say never, because weird things happen. Jose Kintana happened
8:40
Speaker 1: when I think most of us were assuming that wasn't
8:42
Speaker 1: going to happen. There are moves that happen, there are
8:46
Speaker 1: trades that happen that surprise everyone. Like just like mentioned,
8:52
Speaker 1: nobody he's at Paratis was not on our radar last season.
8:58
Speaker 1: So you know, I and I don't want to assume
9:02
Speaker 1: that that they won't make a move right now. It's
9:06
Speaker 1: hard to get an upgrade at this very moment. Matt
9:09
Speaker 1: Shaw is is the is the guy we should be
9:11
Speaker 1: looking at.
9:12
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9:14
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10:18
Speaker 1: Uh. One thing I wanted to say about third base
10:20
Speaker 1: Patrick before we get back, before we get to the
10:22
Speaker 1: next question, is John.
10:23
Speaker 2: Birdie's doing pretty well. He's he's you know, he you know,
10:28
Speaker 2: he made it.
10:28
Speaker 1: He's made some mistakes on defense, obviously a big one
10:32
Speaker 1: on Wednesday, but yeah, I think that was him, right, Yeah,
10:36
Speaker 1: that was that was him playing third at that point. Uh.
10:39
Speaker 1: But otherwise he's he's been pretty good. I want to say,
10:42
Speaker 1: he's above average offensive player so far this season. So uh,
10:46
Speaker 1: it's not a complete Like I said, it's not a
10:48
Speaker 1: complete disaster, but Shaw's probably the long term answer there.
10:53
Speaker 2: And so and and that goes to this question.
10:56
Speaker 1: Actually, the Birdie part, the bench pieces seem to be
11:00
Speaker 1: performing better so far than in past than in years past.
11:03
Speaker 1: How much input did counsel have there? That's from blue
11:07
Speaker 1: line theology. So the bench pieces, Birdie, Bruhan, Kelly Turner.
11:14
Speaker 1: Who there's someone missing in that in that group, right,
11:17
Speaker 1: Nikki Lopez.
11:18
Speaker 2: So here's the thing. It like, John Birdie has been great,
11:23
Speaker 2: Like I just said, Carson Kelly, I wouldn't.
11:25
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'd call him a bench piece,
11:27
Speaker 1: like he's co starter. He's co starter with Miglmaya, and
11:31
Speaker 1: he's kind of getting the bulk of the time right
11:32
Speaker 1: now because he's red hot. Breuhan hasn't done much, Like
11:37
Speaker 1: he's questionable on defense, He's fast, he's a great pinch runner.
11:42
Speaker 1: I think, like that's a nice bench piece to have
11:44
Speaker 1: if you have the depth to kind of overcome that.
11:47
Speaker 1: He's not going to be like pinch hitting for you,
11:48
Speaker 1: but he's most like his best, his most value is
11:51
Speaker 1: is pinch running. I think he has hit the ball hard,
11:55
Speaker 1: hit some balls hard. He hasn't found the grass much,
11:58
Speaker 1: and then Turner is struggling. I like the addition right
12:03
Speaker 1: now you're not seeing much from him performance wise, But ultimately,
12:07
Speaker 1: how much input did counsel have their Patrick? What's your
12:12
Speaker 1: feel on that?
12:15
Speaker 3: I sort of asked him, you know, a version of
12:17
Speaker 3: that question a couple of weeks ago, as Bertie was
12:23
Speaker 3: kind of emerging and we were starting to see like, oh,
12:26
Speaker 3: like this team is really playing a certain way at
12:28
Speaker 3: Wrigley Field, really pushing the envelope in terms of base running,
12:33
Speaker 3: and as you know, SA how they have counsel, you know,
12:37
Speaker 3: kind of likes to downplay certain questions and you know
12:40
Speaker 3: look and shake his head or kind of a shrug.
12:44
Speaker 3: But look, we know we've reported he is part of
12:46
Speaker 3: the inner circle in the front office of like the
12:50
Speaker 3: there's a handful of people who are kind of like
12:54
Speaker 3: in that you know, final phase of any decision, like
12:59
Speaker 3: they're kind of are you know, taken into account, and
13:03
Speaker 3: Council is certainly part of that. That doesn't mean he's
13:06
Speaker 3: like giving thumbs up or thumbs down on every single transaction.
13:11
Speaker 3: He calls himself a consultant. But you know, we saw
13:15
Speaker 3: those teams in Milwaukee that always seemed to like the
13:19
Speaker 3: whole was greater than.
13:20
Speaker 2: The some of its parts.
13:21
Speaker 3: Right that they would play matchups, Council would push the
13:25
Speaker 3: right buttons, and all of a sudden, you know they're
13:27
Speaker 3: winning ninety games.
13:29
Speaker 2: You have no idea how they did it.
13:31
Speaker 3: And so Council, you know, likes Birdie. I think, you know,
13:39
Speaker 3: part of it what you're alluding to earlier is is
13:42
Speaker 3: his best role every day third basement. Probably not like
13:45
Speaker 3: as the season goes on, I think you'd like to
13:46
Speaker 3: break him in different places and have him, you know,
13:49
Speaker 3: coming off the bench or giving certain guys rest, but
13:53
Speaker 3: he was certainly part of the this embrace Wrigley that
13:58
Speaker 3: Dustin Kelly talked about on on our last show, The
14:00
Speaker 3: Cups Hitting Coach of like this should be a home
14:05
Speaker 3: field advantage. We know there are certain days where you
14:07
Speaker 3: just can't hit where it's gonna you're gonna have to
14:10
Speaker 3: manufacture offense. And you know, this group that they have
14:15
Speaker 3: I think certainly fits into that. And I was curious
14:20
Speaker 3: if you look further into the numbers side of I
14:22
Speaker 3: know you asked Counsel about Turner the other day of
14:26
Speaker 3: just like you know, kind of his bat speed, his
14:29
Speaker 3: lack of production thus far, Like what is the concern
14:33
Speaker 3: level at this point?
14:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think you know, I don't want
14:38
Speaker 1: to like say, ride alert because I Council is right,
14:41
Speaker 1: like this guy hasn't played like you know it hasn't.
14:46
Speaker 2: Done the part time playing thing before. He just hasn't
14:50
Speaker 2: done that. He's I think.
14:54
Speaker 1: It's not a ton it's not a big sample, so
14:57
Speaker 1: you don't want to take too much. It doesn't look good, right,
15:00
Speaker 1: Like I haven't seen hard contact and you look at
15:02
Speaker 1: the numbers things underneath, and it's not great. So yeah,
15:07
Speaker 1: I think it makes sense for a forty year old
15:10
Speaker 1: player to struggle. You know, this wasn't it wasn't unreasonable
15:17
Speaker 1: to think that. My my argument against it was, Look,
15:20
Speaker 1: he's he's produced every year, like even last year he
15:24
Speaker 1: produced offensively, and that's all he's here to do. Like
15:27
Speaker 1: occasional starter, occasional pin like you know, pinch hit in
15:33
Speaker 1: a game, laid against a lefty, things like that like that.
15:36
Speaker 1: That's a that shouldn't And and the thought in my mind,
15:40
Speaker 1: and I think with the Cubs was part time role
15:44
Speaker 1: is better for him. It'll his body will stay fresh.
15:47
Speaker 1: He's a professional hitter, he'll be able to handle that.
15:52
Speaker 1: I don't think this is a rhythm thing when you
15:54
Speaker 1: watch it. Maybe it is, maybe maybe in the sense
15:57
Speaker 1: it's a rhythm thing in the sense that if he had,
16:01
Speaker 1: you know, one hundred plate appearances or whatever right now,
16:04
Speaker 1: he'd be hitting better, right, just because he'd have more
16:07
Speaker 1: opportunities up there. But I do want like, so, I
16:11
Speaker 1: guess that's the question. Is this a is this a
16:14
Speaker 1: rhythm thing or is this just an opportunity thing in
16:16
Speaker 1: the sense that his next thirty play appearances will be
16:19
Speaker 1: much better, right, because the more time he goes out there,
16:23
Speaker 1: the more. Uh, you know, that's just more opportunity to
16:26
Speaker 1: get some hits. If he's if he needs that every
16:29
Speaker 1: day playing time, that's going to be an issue. Right,
16:31
Speaker 1: He's just not going to get it. There's no reason
16:33
Speaker 1: to you can't play every day at third. Michael Bush
16:36
Speaker 1: is a good ballplayer, one of your biggest bats. There's
16:40
Speaker 1: no reason to sit him. I don't see how how
16:44
Speaker 1: he gets every day playing time, and he like he
16:48
Speaker 1: certainly hasn't earned that. Right, Carson Kelly has produced to
16:53
Speaker 1: enough that now he's getting a little bit more playing
16:55
Speaker 1: time than am I. At some point, Carson Kelly's going
16:58
Speaker 1: to slow down and that'll go back to to fifty
17:00
Speaker 1: to fifty, right I. You know, it's it's one of
17:05
Speaker 1: those things that I'm going to continue to watch and
17:07
Speaker 1: I'm just going to continue to see, Like I don't
17:09
Speaker 1: like to say like a guy's done, this guy's terrible,
17:12
Speaker 1: or this is until we're like really like, okay, there's
17:16
Speaker 1: been a lot going on here, but you are seeing
17:18
Speaker 1: like councils started Bush against a lefty the other day. Right,
17:22
Speaker 1: it wasn't a great it wasn't like a dominant lefty.
17:25
Speaker 1: It's Andrew Heeney. Who's a good picture but not a
17:28
Speaker 1: great picture.
17:30
Speaker 2: I don't know.
17:31
Speaker 1: I guess we'll see, well, we'll see what Council's decisions
17:34
Speaker 1: are going forward. I think he speaks more with his
17:38
Speaker 1: actions than his words sometimes because especially with negative stuff. Right,
17:42
Speaker 1: he didn't We've asked him about Dansby Swanson. He didn't
17:45
Speaker 1: throw dance By Swanson under the bus. He just moved
17:47
Speaker 1: him to the spot right, and he said he's a
17:51
Speaker 1: streaky hitter. He expected him to get hot, and he
17:54
Speaker 1: put him in the eighth spot. He didn't make a
17:56
Speaker 1: big grand pronouncement of like I have to move this
17:58
Speaker 1: guy down. He didn't say anything.
18:00
Speaker 2: He just did it, right.
18:01
Speaker 1: I think we so we kind of let's watch how
18:03
Speaker 1: he uses Turner going forward. But I do think it's
18:06
Speaker 1: something to keep an eye on and absolutely worth monitoring
18:13
Speaker 1: and see, Like, I don't know if there's an obvious
18:16
Speaker 1: filling in the minors, right. Someone did ask about Moys's
18:19
Speaker 1: bit by Asteros, and I didn't put that question in.
18:22
Speaker 1: But he's a lefty, You like, do you need another
18:26
Speaker 1: lefty bench off the bat at some point? Maybe you do,
18:29
Speaker 1: but you also probably want moyses bart by his hairs
18:31
Speaker 1: playing all the time. This kind of touches on that
18:35
Speaker 1: in the sense that this was I think the Nate's
18:37
Speaker 1: question a touched on Moys's by Asteros. But what do
18:42
Speaker 1: you think about the fact that all three outfielders and
18:44
Speaker 1: Swanson have yet to get a day off? Is that
18:46
Speaker 1: a reflection of Council's view of his bench? Seems like
18:49
Speaker 1: they could wear down at this rate. Well, I mean
18:51
Speaker 1: we just talked about the bench. I think the bench
18:53
Speaker 1: is pretty good. I think that there's a very simple
18:57
Speaker 1: answer here, Nate, and that's go look at all the
19:00
Speaker 1: off days that they had. They've played thirty two games,
19:03
Speaker 1: but that was in like what over forty days? Right,
19:08
Speaker 1: like they had like seven off days. I think they
19:12
Speaker 1: started seventh straight and then just like had a ton
19:16
Speaker 1: of I started seventh straight after the Japan right seventh
19:19
Speaker 1: straight after Japan, and then just a ton of off days.
19:23
Speaker 2: So they they did not they I would not worry
19:27
Speaker 2: about that.
19:27
Speaker 1: Here's here's where if he's if we get through June
19:32
Speaker 1: and these guys haven't had days off, that's where that's
19:35
Speaker 1: when you have to wonder what Greg Council was doing.
19:37
Speaker 1: They play they they end June. I look this up.
19:41
Speaker 1: I want to say, twenty six games in twenty seven days.
19:45
Speaker 1: That's how they end June. There will be days off
19:49
Speaker 1: for all of these guys. What here's my theory, and
19:52
Speaker 1: I think it's simple and I think it makes sense.
19:54
Speaker 1: I haven't asked him about it, just because of all
19:56
Speaker 1: the off days, but you why, like you get all
20:01
Speaker 1: those off days, you play them now, Like there's no
20:04
Speaker 1: need to rest them.
20:06
Speaker 2: It's the toughest part of the schedule. Let them play.
20:09
Speaker 2: It's early on. They just came off.
20:11
Speaker 1: You know, they had a week long break after the
20:13
Speaker 1: first two games, right, and they had time off, right.
20:17
Speaker 1: They barely played in those spring in those spring training
20:19
Speaker 1: games between Japan and and and Arizona. There's like, it's
20:25
Speaker 1: very simple, Like I don't think it's anything you need
20:28
Speaker 1: to overthink. And I certainly think we like we answered
20:32
Speaker 1: before that the bench is he trusts his bench, he
20:34
Speaker 1: likes his bench, and he likes playing those guys. I'm
20:37
Speaker 1: not sure there's any real He has been asked about
20:40
Speaker 1: Swanson getting a day off here and there when the
20:44
Speaker 1: time comes, and it's just not I just don't think
20:46
Speaker 1: there was a reason to do it.
20:47
Speaker 3: Right now, no, I mean now when he's playing defense
20:52
Speaker 3: at a Gold Glove level. He's been someone who posts
20:56
Speaker 3: Ian happ As, someone who posts Peter Armstrong's what twenty
20:59
Speaker 3: three years old? Who wants to see Kyle Tucker sit
21:05
Speaker 3: the bench? You have one year, Kyle Tucker. They can
21:08
Speaker 3: play nine innings every day on games.
21:13
Speaker 1: No.
21:13
Speaker 3: I think if you look at Craig Counsel's track record,
21:17
Speaker 3: if you listen to his answers, and actually you're right,
21:19
Speaker 3: the actions are what I speak the loudest with Craig Counsel,
21:22
Speaker 3: But his reputation is someone who very much keeps the
21:26
Speaker 3: long season in mind, conserving energy, preserving players health. You
21:32
Speaker 3: can see it in how he aligns his starting rotation.
21:37
Speaker 3: And you know, this bench is maybe not entirely his bench,
21:41
Speaker 3: but he certainly had some influence in how it was shaped.
21:44
Speaker 3: And I do think in terms of moistist I think
21:47
Speaker 3: it's interesting, like if there is an injury, say with
21:51
Speaker 3: one of those outfielders or whatever, you gotta think moiss
21:57
Speaker 3: is you know, option one or one A at this point,
22:02
Speaker 3: Like maybe you'd give Turner some more run to let
22:06
Speaker 3: him get into that sort of flow of the season,
22:09
Speaker 3: But otherwise I think you'd feel pretty good about you know,
22:15
Speaker 3: kind of playing that card the way the Cubs did
22:17
Speaker 3: in twenty fifteen. Uh when I think it was what
22:21
Speaker 3: Schwarber coming up, and you know, they've had a couple
22:23
Speaker 3: of players like that over the years where Ian happ
22:26
Speaker 3: you know a long time ago, just plugging that rookie
22:28
Speaker 3: in and seeing what happens. And I think that's probably
22:32
Speaker 3: what they'll do with Moises.
22:34
Speaker 2: Yeah.
22:34
Speaker 1: I think Moys's is gonna come up at some point.
22:37
Speaker 1: He's hitting to what he's he's ready for the big
22:39
Speaker 1: leagues when it comes to his bat, right, I don't
22:41
Speaker 1: know if he'll thrive like he is.
22:42
Speaker 2: I mean, he can't.
22:43
Speaker 1: He's not gonna hit like he's hitting at Triple A.
22:45
Speaker 1: He's hitting like over four hundred. But he's been awesome,
22:49
Speaker 1: Like I'm not sure what more he can do at
22:52
Speaker 1: triple A offensively, right, Obviously he's you know, it takes
22:57
Speaker 1: a while for any player to get to get ready
23:01
Speaker 1: big league ready at catcher. For him, especially like it
23:05
Speaker 1: was always a question. I think he's done tremendous work
23:08
Speaker 1: on his body to kind of get to a place
23:12
Speaker 1: where he can be passable. I'm not sure if he'll
23:14
Speaker 1: ever be an everyday catcher. Or you know, part time catcher.
23:17
Speaker 1: It may just be like a I think what we've
23:20
Speaker 1: heard is like third catcher type thing where he he's
23:24
Speaker 1: d H and and then comes in and starts, or
23:29
Speaker 1: like has the pitcher that he catches specifically, or or
23:34
Speaker 1: just you know once a week is able to give
23:36
Speaker 1: guys a blow type thing, comes in late game in
23:40
Speaker 1: a blowout to catch whatever it may be.
23:44
Speaker 2: We'll see if he if he catches this year in
23:46
Speaker 2: the big leagues.
23:47
Speaker 1: But I'd be surprised if he's not up at some
23:49
Speaker 1: point right just kind of whether they hit a rough patch,
23:53
Speaker 1: whether there's injuries, whatever, it is, like he's good enough
23:56
Speaker 1: to come up. And here's another name that you know
24:00
Speaker 1: we're we're gonna see Kate Horton. Why not bring up
24:03
Speaker 1: Kate Horton immediately? Orus running up innings in Iowa. That's
24:06
Speaker 1: from Van Pelt. I asked this question.
24:09
Speaker 2: Two.
24:09
Speaker 3: Uh, the story story coming up pretty soon, right.
24:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'll have I'll have a story on it.
24:17
Speaker 1: I think I think it's interesting. I think it's a worthwhile.
24:21
Speaker 1: It's a fair question, and I think it's something that
24:24
Speaker 1: the front office asks people ask. Counsel's answer was basically
24:28
Speaker 1: like listen, it's a fair question. But you know, we've
24:32
Speaker 1: got to get him. We've got to make sure he's healthy,
24:34
Speaker 1: we've got to make sure that he's ready. Like it
24:37
Speaker 1: that that you know, he still has some things to
24:40
Speaker 1: prove there, like let's get him, like, let's get his
24:42
Speaker 1: feet under him. Essentially, let's let's make sure that he's
24:46
Speaker 1: good to go and then and then there will be
24:48
Speaker 1: a time. And there was a follow up asked whether
24:51
Speaker 1: he's you know, the plan is you expect him to
24:55
Speaker 1: be up this year?
24:56
Speaker 2: There was like no doubt in that.
24:58
Speaker 1: I don't think it's gonna I don't like again we've
25:00
Speaker 1: said I think we've said this on the podcast. I
25:01
Speaker 1: don't think this is a September call up. This is
25:04
Speaker 1: not an August thing. I think I think we're going
25:07
Speaker 1: to see him relatively soon, whether that's you know, the
25:13
Speaker 1: end of May.
25:14
Speaker 2: I don't.
25:15
Speaker 1: I don't have a date. I don't have a timeline. U.
25:18
Speaker 1: I straight up ask counsel if they did, if they have, like,
25:21
Speaker 1: are there like things they're looking at?
25:23
Speaker 2: Okay, check mark, check mark? Check mark? Here doesn't sound
25:27
Speaker 2: like that. It's just like you know, it's a you'll
25:29
Speaker 2: know it when you see it.
25:31
Speaker 1: Maybe they'll they'll be a feel as far as Okay,
25:36
Speaker 1: we can use a starter right now, Let's see how
25:39
Speaker 1: Ben Brown is doing. Colin Ray, how long.
25:42
Speaker 2: Can he keep this up there? Those are all considerations,
25:45
Speaker 2: right yeah.
25:46
Speaker 3: I also think we alluded to the abundance of off
25:51
Speaker 3: days earlier, which means they'll be fewer off days later
25:55
Speaker 3: if I remember correctly. I mean the Cups haven't had
25:57
Speaker 3: a rain out yet, right, Like if there's a you know,
25:59
Speaker 3: a double header pops later. You alluded to that June schedule,
26:04
Speaker 3: the way it closes out that month. We've talked about
26:09
Speaker 3: how Counsel likes he doesn't just announce a six man rotation,
26:13
Speaker 3: but he's always looking for opportunities to space out guy's
26:19
Speaker 3: outings and give them an extra day here or there.
26:22
Speaker 3: So like, it's not like if Kate Horton doesn't pitch
26:26
Speaker 3: for the Cubs this year, man, something went really wrong.
26:29
Speaker 3: Like he's already at Triple A. He's a first round
26:33
Speaker 3: pick from a couple years ago. He's one of the
26:36
Speaker 3: top pitching prospects in the game, and I think there's
26:39
Speaker 3: very much something to like, you know, this is a
26:41
Speaker 3: guy who did not have a ton of innings in
26:46
Speaker 3: college at Oklahoma, he was a two sport guy, you know,
26:51
Speaker 3: football recruit, he was a two way player in baseball.
26:57
Speaker 3: He got hot, you know, in that draft eligible year
27:00
Speaker 3: and you know, went to the College World Series and
27:02
Speaker 3: the Sooners kind of rode that. I think there's something
27:04
Speaker 3: to be said for that with the Cubs, like, we
27:07
Speaker 3: don't this guy does not have a huge volume of
27:09
Speaker 3: innings and you know, how many pitches does any pitcher have,
27:12
Speaker 3: you know, in in his arm, and like, if he's
27:16
Speaker 3: feeling it and you've you've actually you know, pointed this
27:19
Speaker 3: out to me, sid of like if it's not an
27:22
Speaker 3: unlimited amount and he's feeling good and his ceiling is
27:26
Speaker 3: a high, like, see what happens. And I appreciate counsels,
27:32
Speaker 3: you know, conservative nature on this, Like I'm not dismissing
27:35
Speaker 3: that at all, but at a certain point there those
27:37
Speaker 3: voices in the organization saying, hey, we got to see
27:39
Speaker 3: what we got. Are going to become louder and outweigh
27:43
Speaker 3: any sort of hesitations on maybe not every every single
27:48
Speaker 3: developmental box has been completely checked. It's like, no, just
27:51
Speaker 3: see if he can get hitters out and that doesn't
27:53
Speaker 3: he's ask him to throw two hundred innings this year,
27:57
Speaker 3: like maybe it's just sort of this piggy or like
28:01
Speaker 3: in shorter bursts, like just see what you've got, because
28:04
Speaker 3: it's if he's this good, there's no way the Cubs
28:06
Speaker 3: have thirteen pitchers better than him in their organization.
28:10
Speaker 1: Right right, you were breaking up on my end there,
28:14
Speaker 1: so I didn't hear everything you said, but I did,
28:16
Speaker 1: so I just want to if you said this, I
28:19
Speaker 1: apologize for repeating it. But they're they don't monitor just
28:23
Speaker 1: innings anymore. They don't monitor just pitch count. This is
28:26
Speaker 1: not how they do things anymore. Majority of organizations. They're
28:32
Speaker 1: not just looking at here's he's hit. He's only throwing
28:36
Speaker 1: you know, one hundred innings in a season in the past.
28:39
Speaker 1: We cannot go over one hundred and twenty. Nope, they
28:42
Speaker 1: don't do that. They I think there's wearable devices. I
28:46
Speaker 1: think there's something called like Modus that that's one device
28:50
Speaker 1: that they wear. It like measures everything, right, Like it
28:53
Speaker 1: measures fatigue essentially, is what they're measuring. And there's ways
28:58
Speaker 1: to measure or that on the field, off the field,
29:02
Speaker 1: when you're working out, they're constantly there's so much data
29:06
Speaker 1: that they're going through. So there, it's not it's not
29:09
Speaker 1: as simple as pitch counts. It's not stuff that we
29:11
Speaker 1: even have access to. And honestly, they I I asked around, Uh,
29:16
Speaker 1: the Cubs don't really want to tell me too many
29:17
Speaker 1: things that they're measuring, that they're using.
29:20
Speaker 2: Good. I think they're.
29:22
Speaker 3: Those like the sports bra things that we see.
29:26
Speaker 2: I think that's that's one of them, one of one
29:28
Speaker 2: of the things.
29:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's so much stuff that they that they use
29:31
Speaker 1: and that they're wearing and that they measure. Uh, so
29:36
Speaker 1: there's a but there are there are people that they've
29:40
Speaker 1: hired data scientists, I believe. Uh, there's a there's a
29:44
Speaker 1: guy named Mike's Mike Son, I believe who who may
29:49
Speaker 1: have written something for the athletic it's at least years ago, right, Yeah,
29:54
Speaker 1: and and he's he's a big part of this. There's
29:58
Speaker 1: so many pitching coaches and and that are you know
30:03
Speaker 1: from offshoots of drive Line and the like that that
30:09
Speaker 1: that are just things are much more advanced than they
30:11
Speaker 1: used to be fifteen years ago. So it's a it's
30:13
Speaker 1: a different game. It's a it's a different way of
30:15
Speaker 1: measuring things. Uh, their player development is a little bit
30:18
Speaker 1: different this year. Uh, the way they're handling pitchers. I'd
30:22
Speaker 1: go look at the innings pitched it per game and
30:26
Speaker 1: the pitch count of guys like Nazia and Mulat and
30:29
Speaker 1: Jackson Wiggins, two guys that were coming off injury and
30:32
Speaker 1: they were being very careful with and and it seems
30:34
Speaker 1: like they're just pushing them harder. Now. It's similarly true
30:37
Speaker 1: of Kate Horton. I'll write more about this. They've they've
30:41
Speaker 1: figured some things out with his delivery where they've gotten
30:45
Speaker 1: them back to the twenty twenty three version and and
30:48
Speaker 1: he's pretty nasty. So you know, I expect him to
30:52
Speaker 1: be up at some point this year, and you know
30:54
Speaker 1: there's a good chance he makes an impact. He's that
30:56
Speaker 1: type of talent and you know, it's exciting for fans
31:00
Speaker 1: ends to have this type of pitching talent come up.
31:02
Speaker 2: So we'll see, we'll see when that is.
31:05
Speaker 1: Uh. You know, I don't think they're gonna tip their
31:08
Speaker 1: hand right away. I don't think this is imminent, but
31:10
Speaker 1: I also don't think it's that far away. So we'll
31:12
Speaker 1: see when when Kate Horton comes up. All right, Patrick,
31:16
Speaker 1: thanks to everyone for those questions. We always appreciate I
31:19
Speaker 1: appreciate you listening and reaching out and contributing to the show.
31:23
Speaker 2: This is Northside Territory.
31:25
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31:31
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31:33
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for listening. Everyone, Take care.