Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Frazer Gregory & Si Hart about our choice of An Unearthly Child (4/4)

Transcript

Talks to Frazer Gregory & Si Hart about our choice of An Unearthly Child (4/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:23
  None hamster with a bump pen knife
• 0:35
  for doing quicker. Quicker, quicker.
• 0:41
  Welcome back. No, no, we got that.
• 0:45
  OK, come on, we could do this 54321, welcome.
• 0:53
  Back to our hands and hands that we've got blood.
• 0:59
  No. Doctor Who?
• 1:01
  Oh. Fuck me.
• 1:02
  This is someone's first episode. They're going to be very
• 1:04
  confused. If this is someone else for her
• 1:08
  first episode, and they're coming in at part four, I think
• 1:12
  they deserve to be confused. I'm sorry.
• 1:13
  You deserve to be confused. People are very strange.
• 1:16
  What I was trying to get everyone to do there was show
• 1:19
  that we'd come together as a team in the face of adversity,
• 1:23
  of coming through three episodes of the very first episode of the
• 1:27
  very first Doctor Who adventure. Didn't quite get there, but how
• 1:31
  You get the idea. So yes, hello team, We are
• 1:35
  almost together. Fear has made companions of us
• 1:37
  all, yes, and it's proof conclusive that even though the
• 1:42
  three of us come together to make a fabulous trio.
• 1:46
  We're still very flawed. And it will always be the same.
• 1:53
  I I appreciate that neither of you went for that parody.
• 1:56
  Welcome back to as well. Thank you.
• 1:58
  You all just did it in your normal.
• 1:59
  So easy to do that. We've all done it already.
• 2:03
  That's the thing. So and we're like you said we've
• 2:06
  come round the cycle of getting to.
• 2:09
  Just doing it normally again when I was.
• 2:11
  Doing the parody version, I don't think you I wish you, I
• 2:14
  wish you well. I'll listen back tomorrow,
• 2:18
  Episode 4 the. Client, how are we finding it so
• 2:21
  far? I thought free was riveting.
• 2:24
  Yeah, it's really great drama. It is.
• 2:28
  It's It just doesn't deserve the reputation in Scott.
• 2:32
  Where did An Unearthly Child come in your fabulous pole?
• 2:36
  Oh, now you're asking? It was somewhere, I'll tell you
• 2:41
  that. For now.
• 2:45
  Bear with me Double. Check it was somewhere.
• 2:48
  It's as easy as that pie pie. I think it was quite in the 50s.
• 2:57
  Oh no, it's 45 4545. OK, that's still ranking though,
• 3:02
  isn't it? Yeah, yeah.
• 3:04
  In between Smith and Jones and Warriors Gate, Colin Baker only
• 3:09
  had one outing in your top 60. It's because you only had like 6
• 3:14
  stories? Well, I thought you could
• 3:16
  include trial of a time or does one?
• 3:18
  Which is wrong. That's what I did.
• 3:21
  I know. So that doesn't give you a
• 3:22
  choice, does it? You've got to, yeah.
• 3:25
  Then I've got to talk about them all.
• 3:26
  So yeah. Oh, that's true.
• 3:28
  That was true. Yeah.
• 3:30
  I was just getting excited every time I Jodie turns up because I
• 3:32
  know you're. Off saying so many people.
• 3:38
  But we're not here. Because of Fenrick, upset a lot
• 3:40
  of people this week. Yes, that was just bizarre.
• 3:43
  I thought everyone loved that one.
• 3:46
  There's still, there's still a contingent of McCoy haters out
• 3:49
  there who cannot accept it. As a doctor, I went on the
• 3:53
  police box the other week and determined the Rani and they
• 3:57
  were saying that all these people that they know that hate
• 4:00
  the McCoy era. I'm like, are you people mad?
• 4:03
  Yes, well, that's being a fan for you.
• 4:06
  Let's see if I can upset some more time over there.
• 4:13
  Well, folks, I'm, I'm very pleased to report, you know,
• 4:17
  you're having a whole week of me, Simon Fraser.
• 4:19
  Here we are on Episode 4 of Unearthly Child.
• 4:22
  We've gone right back to the start.
• 4:24
  And after this, we are going all the way to the end, for now,
• 4:30
  Power of the Doctor. Yeah, what a treat for
• 4:33
  everybody. I.
• 4:37
  It's kind of circular, isn't it? It's wonderful.
• 4:39
  It's. Yeah.
• 4:41
  We did talk once about doing the Five Doctors.
• 4:43
  I kind of plot that right in the middle, but there's no time now,
• 4:45
  no. We're recording this on the hoof
• 4:50
  ready for next week. Yes, today is the 16th of
• 4:53
  November, so we're we're one week away from the anniversary.
• 4:58
  Oh, can't wait. Are you getting any more excited
• 5:01
  yet? I'm getting there.
• 5:03
  Oh, well done. We'll get in there.
• 5:06
  Right. So, Simon, you've already
• 5:08
  watched this episode once this season, do you?
• 5:10
  Fancy watching again? Say about this one.
• 5:12
  I'm going to talk about the first episode now.
• 5:15
  That's a plan. You're watching the first
• 5:17
  episode of. We're talking about the 4th,
• 5:20
  Yes, Nightmare in silver. That's got children in it.
• 5:23
  So does in the Forest of the Night.
• 5:25
  And so do. Yeah, but these are speaking.
• 5:28
  Parts, not extras. Let's watch episode 4, shall we?
• 5:37
  Who's counting us in? Oh, I'll do it.
• 5:38
  I don't know. It's it's my podcast after all.
• 5:43
  54321 Doctor. Oh, oh, we go.
• 5:51
  Why did they do that sort of mirroring thing with The Who?
• 5:54
  I think it just worked for the for the design and the sort of
• 6:01
  howling round. Or was it because it sort of
• 6:05
  mirrored the effect, isn't it? Yeah, So it's just one overlaid
• 6:07
  over another. Did you see the special effects
• 6:10
  of the man's face in it? Oh God, yes, chilly.
• 6:14
  Imagine William Hartnell's face in that because he's got a face
• 6:17
  made for those shadows baring his teeth.
• 6:21
  You know I've been trouting the most innocuous of Doctors.
• 6:25
  Look sinister enough coming out of the titles.
• 6:28
  Yeah, my mum said the titles were scary when she was young.
• 6:35
  Do you think it was quite annoying when they had to sort
• 6:39
  of hold a pose like this as all the titles for their facts it's?
• 6:44
  I think they were all used to it.
• 6:46
  It's it's better than the Crossroads approach, where
• 6:49
  Crossroads would focus on part of the set and someone holding a
• 6:56
  prawn cocktail or something for for 10 seconds, I think.
• 7:01
  Yeah, Doctor Who does it slightly better.
• 7:03
  They mocked that brilliantly in that Christmas special from
• 7:07
  inside #9 The The Devil of Christmas, yeah.
• 7:10
  Didn't they just? Yeah, Graham Harper was
• 7:12
  directing. It had loads of scenes like
• 7:13
  that, didn't you? It's all part of his charm
• 7:17
  though, right? Which just means at the end of
• 7:22
  this episode, I'll need you all to hold Hold A.
• 7:25
  Pose while we go out, OK? It's like the police squad
• 7:30
  ending where everything is going on.
• 7:32
  Someone's pouring hot tea in. Oh, a woman is dead.
• 7:40
  Oh, mother. And it's the tribe doing the I.
• 7:44
  Know it's a tribe Doctor. It's the Doctor B Mumble.
• 7:48
  Brilliant, isn't it? Oh yes, this is great, this
• 7:51
  dialogue, isn't it? Yes, when he basically spells
• 7:55
  out, doesn't he this this had to be done by him.
• 7:59
  Yeah, again, it's it's that, you know, the the they've had the
• 8:03
  shock, they've had the trauma. Now they're tuning into the
• 8:04
  situation of like how we're going to get out of this.
• 8:07
  I've got that kind of the, you know, there's no point.
• 8:11
  Like, you know, I've patronized Ian and tried to make a child.
• 8:16
  But if I do that with these guys, that's not going to work.
• 8:17
  So I've got to come on to their level and.
• 8:21
  This knife shows what it does, and he's tricked Cal into
• 8:24
  showing the knife with the blood on it.
• 8:27
  Brilliant. I'll try that.
• 8:28
  Next time I'll commit a crime it it does not say what it does
• 8:31
  this this weapon do. You mean next time you commit a
• 8:35
  crane? Oh, move on, shall we?
• 8:41
  Yeah, so tell us about that. I'm used to buy all them dodgy
• 8:44
  VHS. Oh, this was in the Betamax
• 8:49
  collection that I copied from at the end of 89.
• 8:54
  It's weird to know because I had my dealer up in Scotland.
• 8:56
  Darren McKay. Hello Darren, I know you Listen
• 8:58
  now. Great folks, If you're
• 9:01
  listening, hello. Who's your?
• 9:03
  Dealer Fraser. I did not have a dealer.
• 9:05
  Oh the. Picture of it.
• 9:07
  Just sort of stay out there and oh, what's going on?
• 9:11
  Oh, they're casting them out. There's yeah, I've forgotten
• 9:18
  where I was going with that. Now what?
• 9:19
  We're talking about Beta Max tapes.
• 9:21
  Do you? I never asked for this, though.
• 9:26
  I waited for the VHS to come out.
• 9:28
  I never asked for on OP Charles because I'd heard in those how
• 9:32
  stammers Walker's books that this was all very dreary in
• 9:35
  episodes 2-3 and four. Never listen to the Receive
• 9:38
  Family. I've made my mind up in in 89
• 9:42
  when I saw this again, that actually the first episode is
• 9:46
  brilliant, but the rest of the episodes are really good.
• 9:48
  Definitely. I I think the first duffer is
• 9:57
  Edge of the Structure Part One. I don't like edge of the
• 10:00
  structure very much. There's bits of it I like, but I
• 10:03
  think it it is we is. Then and then it's the reign of
• 10:07
  Terror. I cannot get on with the Reign
• 10:09
  of Terror at all. I love the Reign of Terror.
• 10:14
  And it was my last Hartnell, and it was one of my very last
• 10:16
  stories. And I don't get it at all.
• 10:21
  I hope you love that bit between Ian and Barbara where they're
• 10:23
  talking about, you know, meddling in history.
• 10:26
  I love that. Scene.
• 10:27
  It's all right. But I just, yeah, I it just
• 10:29
  bores me well, that fabulous cliffhanger where the house is
• 10:32
  on fire. Yeah, much rather.
• 10:34
  Watch the sensor rights. You madman, I've still not
• 10:38
  managed to make it through the sensor rights a week.
• 10:43
  Do more commentary on it. Gary Russell's on that.
• 10:45
  He just talks about it, he. Doesn't talk about the sensor
• 10:47
  rights at. All.
• 10:50
  There's a reason for that. It is great though, because
• 10:55
  we've had sort of three episodes now and there's been some great
• 10:58
  sets and things like that. But it does end on a brilliant
• 11:01
  set pieces, doesn't it? Like a good bit of action.
• 11:06
  We've sort of been promised it from these beastly Cavemen and
• 11:10
  when you really get it at the end, oh, what have they done to
• 11:13
  Paul Alicia Charlton's teeth? Look at the state of them.
• 11:16
  And they've really painted those beautifully.
• 11:21
  Wasn't she a peasant? Next time as.
• 11:24
  Yeah, yeah, he did, wasn't she? Yeah.
• 11:26
  Her teeth were better, though. We've got a peasant in the
• 11:28
  script. Call Alethia now.
• 11:32
  His name is Friend. They come from the other side of
• 11:39
  the mountains. That's what I think about you
• 11:40
  pair. Your opinions?
• 11:49
  So it's going to be the next door.
• 11:50
  Don't listen to him, he's from the other side of the mountains.
• 11:54
  Tribes cannot live there. It was like a mother guarding.
• 12:00
  This is great dialogue. I think they're.
• 12:03
  Trying to work this out, but it's talking about.
• 12:10
  It's talking about compassion and kindness.
• 12:13
  You know important things and. It's not stronger than the whole
• 12:20
  tribe. And he's remembered and he's
• 12:23
  they're they're trying to work it out again.
• 12:28
  I think the only other time they really pull this off, a very
• 12:31
  exotic locale like this with a convincingly alien culture is
• 12:37
  the web planet. And that uses metaphor as well,
• 12:40
  doesn't it About. It does, yeah.
• 12:41
  Well, we have all the things about the lights and the walls
• 12:44
  that. And we must make mouths in the
• 12:46
  walls, so we or eyes in the walls so that we can see and and
• 12:50
  things like that. So I think when the show pushed
• 12:52
  away from the weirdness and went into sort of sci-fi.
• 12:57
  So in sort of early Trouton, mid mid early to mid Trouton it did
• 13:01
  lose something a bit. I mean it, you know, it was
• 13:04
  still great telly, but it it didn't take as many risks, I
• 13:08
  don't think. It's amazing that it sustained
• 13:12
  it for the first. Three to four years, to be
• 13:15
  honest. They could easily have gone down
• 13:17
  the formulaic things route once the Daleks are introduced, but
• 13:21
  they keep on making this show weird and strange and go all
• 13:27
  over the place and go to places that you wouldn't consider going
• 13:30
  to in Doctor Who now. So I think that's where Dennis
• 13:34
  Spooner comes in. You know Dennis Spooner as a
• 13:37
  great hero of mine, because I think what he does is.
• 13:43
  Really. Say to the Doctor as the hero.
• 13:45
  Yes. You know, when he really
• 13:47
  positions him as, you know, not just the lead, not just the main
• 13:51
  character, but the hero. From the rescuers when he takes
• 13:55
  over onwards, isn't it? Yes, you get things like the
• 13:58
  Romans where you know he's now kind of, you know, Venusian
• 14:03
  Aikido and people out windows and whatnot, whereas you
• 14:06
  wouldn't get that the year before and you things like.
• 14:12
  The chase where he decided to have Hartnell go up against
• 14:16
  Hartnell, you know, he doesn't look at him as like an old man
• 14:20
  as he's been looked at here. He just looks at him as the hero
• 14:23
  of the story, and I think that's that pivot as well.
• 14:27
  I've seen pivot a lot tonight. That pivot, it is pivotal.
• 14:31
  Yeah, that kind of is something that really propels the the
• 14:35
  series forward. You know, you kind of halfway
• 14:38
  through Hartnell's era and all of a sudden.
• 14:40
  Sort of shift to make him a more important character.
• 14:43
  Just gives it a little bit of a bump to get it going, you know,
• 14:48
  without something that you could just get to the, you know, three
• 14:51
  years in and they think, well, he's not up the job anymore so.
• 14:54
  What are we going to do? Yeah, we'll just, we'll just
• 14:56
  stop. You know, you've said so much
• 15:00
  there that we could start about 15 conversations about what you
• 15:03
  just said there. I was like at what point do I
• 15:06
  interrupt you on? No, no, no.
• 15:07
  Is that how that's keep going? Although you're right there
• 15:11
  because as soon as he comes into Lispuna, we start getting lines
• 15:14
  like was it? If you want adventure, my dear,
• 15:17
  I can promise you an abundance of it.
• 15:19
  It just feels like the whole tone of the show is changing.
• 15:22
  Yeah. And I think Whittaker is,
• 15:26
  forgive me, pivotal to this first year.
• 15:30
  Absolutely. But that shift was needed to
• 15:33
  come away from being, quite maybe as worthy as it is into
• 15:37
  being. And to make it a bit more
• 15:38
  entertaining, yes, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's what it is.
• 15:41
  It's, it's, it's. It's a.
• 15:44
  Lightness of touch over the scripts.
• 15:48
  And it's not to say that they can't do incredibly serious
• 15:51
  stories too, because they they've got crusade.
• 15:53
  And and that's serious. But it's also fun in lots of
• 15:58
  places. I mean, just Whittaker say the
• 16:03
  Romans on the web planet in sequence is just astonishing
• 16:07
  and. Whittaker adapts himself to
• 16:11
  every era of the show, up to ambassadors of death.
• 16:17
  So for those first seven years, he's there as one of the lead
• 16:22
  writers of this show and does something every year almost, you
• 16:27
  know and but you know what? It's when.
• 16:30
  It's pivotal, I think, in in getting Trouten off the ground.
• 16:34
  Yeah, I was about to say when Whitaker and Spooner come
• 16:36
  together, because his Spooner script is Power of the Daleks is
• 16:41
  Gold. Yeah.
• 16:42
  Oh yeah. I think you know Whitaker.
• 16:44
  It comes in because he's the guy that did it the first time.
• 16:48
  Yes. It makes sense for him to come
• 16:50
  in and go well, you know you. Who knows?
• 16:53
  Who knows this show? Exactly.
• 16:55
  Who knows the show the best at this point?
• 16:58
  Who knows how to introduce the character?
• 17:02
  You know you did it once. Please come back and do it
• 17:05
  again. You might think that Spooner
• 17:08
  would add sort of a lot of jokes and things like that, and
• 17:10
  instead he just makes it the tightest, most claustrophobic.
• 17:13
  Dog two-story Ever. Here we go.
• 17:18
  It's the following, right? We're going to lose Joe for a
• 17:21
  couple of minutes everywhere we go on the film as these two
• 17:24
  hairy, fabulously 5 Cavemen. I mean, it does.
• 17:29
  Care kinky, doesn't it? You waited a minute.
• 17:34
  Locking their legs around each other, throwing each other
• 17:36
  about. Could be my bedroom.
• 17:38
  It's. Interesting is it's actually the
• 17:42
  two actors doing it, and it's not stuntmen filling in.
• 17:46
  There's a stuntman who has worked out the choreography of
• 17:49
  the fight, but there's not. But it's the actors throwing
• 17:53
  each other around, but the decision to have it sort of
• 17:57
  mostly dark flame lit and then to have those brilliant reaction
• 18:01
  shots from all the regulars. And they do it on film because,
• 18:04
  as was Hussein says, we couldn't cover it with four cameras.
• 18:08
  We couldn't do the cutting between these bits that we need
• 18:12
  to do so. It's fast-paced and and again,
• 18:15
  it's visceral and nasty. But watch all the different
• 18:18
  reactions. Hartnell's eyes are sort of
• 18:20
  darting, as is this thinking. When can we make our move to get
• 18:23
  away? And Ian's sort of looking at him
• 18:25
  going right. If I've got to fight one of
• 18:26
  these people, what are their tactics?
• 18:28
  Barbara's just appalled. It's really great.
• 18:35
  But this is one of the I think this is one of the nastiest
• 18:38
  action sequences the show ever gave us.
• 18:41
  I mean, he ends up having his neck snapped, doesn't he?
• 18:43
  Yeah, and his skull's smashed in because again.
• 18:48
  It was Verity Lambert saying to War to say you can't have that
• 18:51
  sound on top. And that's an argument that goes
• 18:55
  right through to the new series and oh, The Empty Child.
• 19:02
  The empty child Where? Yeah.
• 19:03
  Can you have the sound of cracking bones?
• 19:05
  No, you can't. Yeah, it's funny in how patterns
• 19:09
  repeat themselves. Yeah.
• 19:12
  Oh, and that's brilliant Again. He did the same thing he did
• 19:14
  with Aletha Charlton in episode 3 is during the murder.
• 19:19
  He cuts to one of the girls screaming, so he gives it.
• 19:22
  Oh Christ, that was nasty. Yeah, that was nasty.
• 19:28
  It's the way he drags him off. Yeah.
• 19:31
  Why the leg? It's horrible.
• 19:33
  Pay attention to like. Why is he?
• 19:40
  Where is he taking his body? To show the tribe, Oh no, he's
• 19:46
  going to leave him at the side of The Cave of Skulls.
• 19:48
  Because that's where you leave the dead bodies, isn't it?
• 19:52
  Thank you for interrupting me there.
• 19:54
  I was going to say something that definitely would have got
• 19:55
  me cancelled. Oh, please stop it.
• 20:03
  Never, Fraser. Never especially know when
• 20:06
  you're around. He's got fire now.
• 20:13
  That's it. He's in charge.
• 20:18
  He does. The one that makes fire, that's.
• 20:20
  What he's saying let him establish himself and then he'll
• 20:23
  let us go. No, he's dastardly.
• 20:31
  I love the way they all all are warming their hands.
• 20:36
  They're all fascinated by by the fire.
• 20:41
  Effectively, that's like a message from the Golds, isn't
• 20:43
  it? Yeah and yeah, imagine living on
• 20:48
  that circumstances with no hate. Well that's it isn't it?
• 20:53
  It's I guess just it's just that simplicity of something you just
• 20:57
  take for granted doesn't living in a warm house and.
• 21:00
  I remember how the meat and the fire joined together to make
• 21:04
  something that tasted good. Oh, they even raw meat then at
• 21:08
  the moment. Oh God.
• 21:14
  If a child's never look more pretty teeth.
• 21:22
  Oh. We're all just watching now.
• 21:27
  We are. I mean, this is so good.
• 21:33
  Same as Watched it twice. But we're watching because it's
• 21:37
  good, you know? It's really good.
• 21:42
  It's really. And again we need we need them
• 21:48
  to be cleverer than the tribe now and work out how to get
• 21:52
  away. And this is what we're waiting
• 21:54
  for because we're we're kind of hoping that they will will find
• 21:57
  a way. But we don't know what it's
• 21:59
  going to be. I'm.
• 22:02
  Sorry, I told you that. Go on, Joe.
• 22:06
  Well, no, I was going to say, is that the ultimate expression of
• 22:09
  how? Great.
• 22:10
  A Doctor Who story is that we're doing a commentary, but we don't
• 22:13
  say anything. We're all too busy watching it.
• 22:17
  That's a hell of an end. It's the cardinal sin of doing a
• 22:20
  commentary, to be honest, isn't it?
• 22:22
  They've had enough. Words already.
• 22:23
  Don't worry. Oh, bless them.
• 22:28
  They must have been like, wow, what do you do in your day's
• 22:30
  work today? Well, I was on the set of Doctor
• 22:32
  Who, you know, going, oh, it's a fire.
• 22:40
  This is really lovely, the four of them around the fire now.
• 22:42
  Yes. So, yeah.
• 22:47
  And as we said, they've come together.
• 22:51
  What's wonderful is like we've had that action sequence, but
• 22:56
  you still get that brilliant chase at the end of the story,
• 22:59
  don't you? We're just getting back to the
• 23:01
  TARDIS. Feels like an enormous triumph.
• 23:06
  And they are. They just like they're throwing
• 23:07
  Spears at them to the last, aren't they?
• 23:09
  Does one go in the tard? It's like lands, boy.
• 23:11
  It doesn't it in the sand. That's right.
• 23:17
  Yes. You know, coming in and saying,
• 23:21
  well, you should be grateful. I've given you a meter with you.
• 23:26
  You've got a stone with some water in it.
• 23:28
  What more do you want? And you've got a fire.
• 23:30
  Yeah. But you know.
• 23:31
  Yeah, they don't understand what?
• 23:33
  What they need to get back to. Like, this is the height of
• 23:35
  luxury we're offering you here. Exactly.
• 23:39
  No better place on the other side of the mountains.
• 23:42
  Yeah. Oh, Barbara's like, is this my
• 23:47
  lot in life now? Stuck here with this for one.
• 23:49
  And a bunch of Cavemen. I'm willing to bet.
• 23:54
  You know, when they woke up this morning, none of them thought
• 23:56
  this was going to be their life choice by the end of the day.
• 24:00
  I doubt he and Barbara did. Oh look at this.
• 24:05
  Yeah. What we have missed is the to
• 24:09
  talk about is the scene before this where the talk and about
• 24:13
  making fire and the talk about the tribe and the one, the
• 24:17
  leaders the one that makes fire and Indians says no, in our
• 24:21
  tribe the fire mate is the least important person.
• 24:25
  You know, he's trying to kind of shift above what he does in that
• 24:28
  scene and I'm sad I've missed it is he points to the Doctor and
• 24:33
  says he's our leader. Oh, yes, he does.
• 24:36
  You know, so he positions, you know, there's been a lot of back
• 24:39
  and forth, but you know who's actually in charge?
• 24:42
  You know, the doctor was in The Cave and then it was Ian.
• 24:44
  Ian is kind of seeding leadership to the doctor, you
• 24:49
  know, even though you know that he's the one that's got him into
• 24:51
  this, he's trying to stove that man's head in going back to, you
• 24:56
  know, is the doctor antagonist in this over protagonist in
• 25:00
  this. Ian positions him very much as
• 25:04
  the protagonist. And because he was his greatest
• 25:06
  critic in episode two and three, that kind of seals the deal,
• 25:11
  doesn't it? I love that coming.
• 25:13
  Together. Imagery of the skulls with the
• 25:15
  flames. Coming out.
• 25:17
  And Charlton's reaction when she sees him because.
• 25:19
  It's like the gods have come down and.
• 25:22
  You know, reap their wrath on them.
• 25:24
  Yeah, they must have put some fat or something all over those
• 25:26
  for all that flames come out of those skulls.
• 25:31
  It's, yeah, it's. It's a really, really great
• 25:33
  image. I'll be like, maybe we shouldn't
• 25:39
  have fire. After all this.
• 25:45
  Oh no, he figures it out straight away, isn't he?
• 25:47
  Yeah, but is there not? Is it going to be enough time
• 25:51
  for them to get away? I don't know.
• 25:54
  They've got a lot of open Foster and so in a minute.
• 25:59
  But like, you know, there are this is this does set a
• 26:03
  precedent, doesn't it? This them trying to dash back to
• 26:05
  the TARDIS. I remember the sequence in the
• 26:07
  Aztecs where they're desperately trying to get the the door open
• 26:10
  to get back to the TARDIS and the sequence in.
• 26:13
  Cliffhanger in Marco Polo where they get to the TARDIS, but
• 26:17
  Susan is has been captured so they can't get away.
• 26:21
  They sort of go to that well a lot, but it works.
• 26:26
  Why did we stop doing that? That's some good running on the
• 26:29
  spot, acting by them all. That's.
• 26:30
  Great, isn't it? Again, marshalling your
• 26:34
  resources because you haven't got enough set to run around in.
• 26:38
  So move the move the trees. It's a trick they'll come back
• 26:43
  to in two episodes time. Yep.
• 26:46
  I can't believe that I've watched 4 episodes of Caroline
• 26:49
  fall and I've not said anything derogatory about her, so.
• 26:52
  Because she is actually good in this one.
• 26:56
  When she gets the material, she's great, but when she gets
• 26:59
  the screaming in the in the cells in the reign of terror.
• 27:05
  She's. Dreadful.
• 27:06
  He's a Mariner Screaming Jungle. Do you remember that?
• 27:11
  Yeah, the. Screaming Jungle Oh Christ, here
• 27:14
  we go. Look.
• 27:15
  Yeah, growing their Spears. A flame wielding mob just away
• 27:21
  in time. And they've done it, yeah.
• 27:26
  That was quite a clever special effects shot.
• 27:28
  You saw the TARDIS materialise and then the spear land where
• 27:31
  the TARDIS was, yeah, as it was taking off.
• 27:35
  I look at them, look at them all.
• 27:36
  They're so grubby. What was the fella's name?
• 27:40
  Who helped them with all the wizardry?
• 27:41
  Is it Mervin Pinfield? Yes.
• 27:44
  Yeah. Oh, Barbara's now.
• 27:48
  I've had enough. Take us.
• 27:49
  Home, yeah. And they can't.
• 27:54
  Well what's great is in the Daleks episode one, which we're
• 27:57
  all going to watch next week in brilliant Technicolor.
• 28:01
  But sounds of it is they walk out thinking are we home, are we
• 28:05
  back on earth? And And then it takes them a
• 28:08
  while to figure out, no they're not.
• 28:09
  And then you ever seen between Ian and Barbara where she's
• 28:11
  like, yeah, we're not home, are we?
• 28:14
  We're never going to get back, are we?
• 28:17
  And that sort of running story, do you know the next time they
• 28:22
  do this? Is he again trying to get home?
• 28:29
  Oh dear, somebody was paying. Oh.
• 28:31
  Look at this forest. Doesn't that look good?
• 28:34
  Oh, look at. That oh, odd looking trees
• 28:37
  there. Yeah, imagine how gaudy that
• 28:39
  looking colour. Nice.
• 28:41
  Fabulous. Did you see the foot locator
• 28:46
  there? What's the radiation reading,
• 28:48
  Joe? It looks normal.
• 28:52
  We can go out. That one comes back to bite
• 28:56
  them. Jesus, I mean, this is a very
• 28:59
  old trick. Do you remember the bit in the
• 29:01
  Genesis? And the Daleks, where the the
• 29:04
  the meat is pointed in that way and it's like, oh, if it goes to
• 29:07
  the danger level, we're in trouble and then it just goes
• 29:10
  straight to the danger level. So yeah, next episode, The Dead
• 29:15
  Planet. Well, that sounds intriguing,
• 29:17
  doesn't it? Dead in.
• 29:18
  The planet that sounds enticing. I wonder where Doctor Who's
• 29:23
  going next? Probably called that one the
• 29:25
  Mutants. Yeah, maybe the.
• 29:29
  Daleks. The Daleks It'll.
• 29:31
  Never catch on And what's the other one?
• 29:32
  Is there a third one for that one?
• 29:35
  No, I think that's the that's the three, isn't it?
• 29:39
  And then in for Edge of destruction.
• 29:42
  It's what? Beyond the Sun.
• 29:44
  Yeah, inside the spaceship. Our alleged destruction Jesus
• 29:49
  Christ doctrine. Spaceship.
• 29:50
  Such a dull title, isn't it? That's what it says on the tin
• 29:56
  though. Well, it does, but yeah, that's
• 30:01
  it. In fact.
• 30:02
  Started. When he was younger, Mark's
• 30:06
  favorite thing was TARDIS scenes, So any story called
• 30:09
  inside the spaceship. Very excited.
• 30:12
  Yeah, I love it. I love a TARDIS scene.
• 30:15
  Yeah, I do too. Well, it's just they're also
• 30:18
  different over time, aren't they?
• 30:19
  You know, even that back cloth in Battlefield, Sorry, that's
• 30:32
  the last season. We're still in the first.
• 30:35
  We've got another 26 seasons to go, boys.
• 30:39
  Look, obviously you want to go to bed at some point, but we do
• 30:43
  have to find our amazing, fabulous reasons.
• 30:46
  As to why we would recommend An Unearthly Child, as if we
• 30:49
  haven't done that already, but we'll start with psy and then
• 30:55
  we'll go to Fraser and I'll take up the rear.
• 30:59
  I am. Where do you start?
• 31:00
  OK, you start with the titles and the theme music, which are
• 31:05
  incredible and brilliant, and get the show off to the most
• 31:09
  amazing start that it could possibly have.
• 31:12
  And if that doesn't hook you, then there is.
• 31:15
  Quite. Then there's another 20 minutes
• 31:17
  of greatness to come afterwards before you hear that music
• 31:20
  again. But it's unearthly in the same
• 31:23
  way that the title is, and it's like nothing that's ever been
• 31:27
  created ever before this point. And just imagine, I just imagine
• 31:34
  hearing that for the first time on your little tiny speaker from
• 31:39
  your your little. TV in 1963.
• 31:42
  And that filling your living room?
• 31:44
  That's got to be brilliant. So yeah.
• 31:48
  Well done, Delia. Well done, Brian.
• 31:51
  Well done. Oh, what's his name?
• 31:55
  Bernard Lodge for the titles. You did great stuff.
• 32:00
  Being mimicked to this day? Absolutely.
• 32:11
  Fraser, I think it might be your turn.
• 32:15
  And then which case I am the rest of episode one?
• 32:19
  Oh, you bastard. Yep.
• 32:21
  I know. Yeah.
• 32:22
  Because it does everything you want it to do and it does it so
• 32:27
  well. It just sets everything up.
• 32:30
  And you know, coming, coming at it 30 years down the line, you
• 32:38
  know, you see all these elements that you know, you know very
• 32:43
  well-being introduced for the first time.
• 32:45
  There's a magic in that, and I think it must have been just as
• 32:50
  magic to watch it the first time.
• 32:52
  And I'd be like, what's going on?
• 32:55
  What's this? You ought to have that whole
• 33:00
  reveal of the TARDIS being bigger on the inside and the
• 33:03
  outside and fly through time and space.
• 33:05
  And that's why she's so strange and unearthly.
• 33:10
  Or having that magic scene in the TARDIS where the heart was
• 33:16
  been so slippery. And then he kind of turns around
• 33:18
  and he's very condescending and very, you know, there's a lot of
• 33:23
  back and forth, and then that leads you into that wonderful
• 33:26
  cliffhanger. That could be anything.
• 33:28
  It could be anything in time and space.
• 33:31
  But what it is, is something that makes you want to come back
• 33:33
  next week and watch Part 2 or a bristle.
• 33:36
  The one is my choice. I I'm going to say Worris
• 33:42
  Hussein for my first one, as a bit obvious due to the director,
• 33:45
  but boy, he had a big job. You know, he's set in the stall
• 33:48
  for the series and I think there's a lot of visual
• 33:51
  inventiveness. We talked about the POV shots,
• 33:54
  like POV shots from the animal attacking the fella, you know?
• 33:58
  He's managing to get there's a wonderful singing in Adventures
• 34:01
  in Space and Time where you have Sasha Dewan, players, Juarez
• 34:04
  Hussein, and he's talking about trying to move those fucking
• 34:07
  hefty cameras about. He goes, well, I want you to go
• 34:10
  over there. They're like, well, we can't
• 34:11
  move the cameras, but actually there's a lot of movement in
• 34:14
  this, in the jungle, in the junk yards, you know, in the school
• 34:18
  corridor. I just think he did an
• 34:21
  incredible job and he had a near impossible task to make.
• 34:25
  Two to four, visually interesting and dramatically
• 34:29
  satisfying. And he absolutely aced it.
• 34:32
  I can see what they gave him Marco Polo after this.
• 34:35
  It's almost like a reward. You know, you made this work.
• 34:38
  Now you can have this massive epic, Yeah, it it's some of the
• 34:44
  some of the more interesting direction you're going to see in
• 34:46
  the 60s and it's where we started.
• 34:49
  So what was he saying? OK.
• 34:52
  And it's. Got to be William Hartnell,
• 34:56
  hasn't it? And you know, because he is
• 35:00
  mesmerizing and when he's on the screen you're watching him and
• 35:05
  you're not always watching everyone else because he is so
• 35:08
  brilliant. And you know, this is this is
• 35:12
  weeks, one to four or one to five of Doctor Who, and he's not
• 35:18
  fluffing his lines. He is absolutely word perfect.
• 35:22
  He is brilliant. And there's again, we often take
• 35:28
  him for granted. Not all of us, but he's taken
• 35:31
  for granted within Doctor Who fandom because so much of his
• 35:35
  stuff isn't around to watch. But you know, if he hadn't got
• 35:40
  this right, we wouldn't be here now.
• 35:42
  And we say this about Patrick trounced all the time.
• 35:44
  But if William Hartnell hadn't established the the show so
• 35:48
  brilliantly right from day one and being this.
• 35:54
  Wonderful character who at this point you can't.
• 35:58
  You don't know if you can trust him or if you even like him very
• 36:02
  much, but your eyes can't gone away from him at all.
• 36:07
  He is really, really wonderful here and deserves far more love
• 36:13
  than he ever gets you. Always say it's like the Daleks
• 36:18
  that brought in the ratings and I do think that's true, but.
• 36:23
  You know, you kind of knew after the Dynex and Dynex of Asian
• 36:27
  Earth that they you weren't going to see him for a while.
• 36:29
  And then in Season 2, we were hitting twelve 13 million
• 36:33
  viewers per episodes. They were tuning in for
• 36:35
  something and I think they were tuning in for Harman.
• 36:38
  He was. Loved by children.
• 36:40
  Absolutely loved Partner and Zombies.
• 36:43
  That's what they were tuning in. Oh.
• 36:45
  What a combination. So my next thing then is going
• 36:50
  to be episode 2. You're not having four things,
• 36:58
  so you can't do them all. Yes, because I'm notorious for
• 37:03
  stopping at three things, Joe. Yeah, I know you're notorious
• 37:07
  for a lot of things. So yeah, Episode 2, because it
• 37:11
  kind of, you know, you get that Cliff and it's resolved and it's
• 37:15
  Cavemen and it is just that fantastic, like I say coming at
• 37:19
  this from another, you know, coming coming at it from the
• 37:25
  future as it were. You're not expecting that, but
• 37:29
  it's a but it's obvious there's a historical.
• 37:32
  A lot of the first series was historical.
• 37:34
  So but it's it's not just pure historical because you have that
• 37:37
  little bit in the TARDIS where you know they're going out and
• 37:39
  investigating, but it just sets everything up, you know, it sets
• 37:43
  up the world of the Cavemen really nicely.
• 37:47
  It sets up this idea that, you know, just for the lack of a
• 37:50
  match, the whole, you know, group of them are in in deadly
• 37:55
  peril. Yeah, it just, it just sets sets
• 38:01
  the scene up for the rest of the story.
• 38:03
  So, so well, like we've had the mystery this is building up on
• 38:07
  building on the mystery and building the tension and the
• 38:10
  peril before and then in episodes three and four deal
• 38:13
  with that. So, yeah, so too.
• 38:17
  I am going to say Jacqueline Hill because I think she is the
• 38:21
  best actor of the original ensemble.
• 38:24
  She never lets me down. She's the person that drags us
• 38:27
  into this mystery. She's the person that accepts
• 38:31
  the truth of the TARDIS first. She's the person that really
• 38:34
  sells the drama in episode 3 and she's the person that has the
• 38:38
  very sweet moments with William Hartner when you realise they're
• 38:41
  getting closer to each other, I think.
• 38:44
  Her efforts, I mean, she's celebrated, but I think she gave
• 38:50
  a ton to Doctor Who. And I think the reason why
• 38:53
  people were willing to go on this journey with these
• 38:55
  characters is because of her. Well, it's her and William
• 38:59
  Russell, but I just think she's the very actress.
• 39:01
  So Jacqueline Hill was my second choice.
• 39:04
  She's a absolute goddess and I think she's fabulous.
• 39:09
  OK, so for my third choice, it's the fact that Doctor Who.
• 39:14
  Doesn't ever get this. I said this all the way through,
• 39:18
  but it never gets this dirty and visceral and nasty in the same
• 39:23
  way again. This is a a TARDIS crew who were
• 39:27
  traumatised by this story and the experiences they're having
• 39:32
  and we never see this to to this level again.
• 39:37
  There are countless times where we see, sort of.
• 39:41
  Screams and things like that. But the format of the show later
• 39:48
  on means that the characters literally pick themselves up,
• 39:51
  run away and start all over again.
• 39:54
  And but here the rules aren't set.
• 39:58
  It's not set as an action adventure serial, it's an
• 40:03
  adventure in time and space. And there are.
• 40:07
  You can have your characters affected by this, because there
• 40:11
  aren't. Any rules to say that you can't?
• 40:14
  And later on there are rules that say, oh, it's fun and scary
• 40:20
  for kids, but the characters are always going to be your friends
• 40:25
  all the way through this. Here you don't know if you like
• 40:28
  any of these people because you're getting to know them and
• 40:31
  they're having the most awful time.
• 40:34
  And we never see Cruise in as dirty and in such a state as
• 40:42
  they are here. And even if you look at one of
• 40:46
  the closest is Peter Davison at the end of Case of Androsani.
• 40:50
  I was just going to say that I think that might be on par, but
• 40:53
  yeah, that's that's the closest it comes.
• 40:56
  And his coats a bit muddy, but it.
• 40:59
  Is it is just as violent and as desperate and as nasty.
• 41:03
  Yeah, but but yeah, there we go. That's 21 years later.
• 41:08
  You know who? So, yeah, so it's yeah, it's
• 41:12
  somewhere that the show chooses not to go back to.
• 41:16
  But thank God there's one story where they did do that, and it
• 41:20
  starts from them walking into the TARDIS and the the shock and
• 41:25
  the culture shock at that moment is palpable and is so well
• 41:29
  played and it carries on through the rest of the episodes.
• 41:36
  I think I'm going to pick episode 3.
• 41:40
  How are you now? So the whole thing then,
• 41:44
  basically. Episode 3 is my next favorite
• 41:49
  thing because this is the one where you know the the team are
• 41:55
  really put through the wringer, the really, you know,
• 41:59
  traumatized, the bound, the tied up in The Cave of schools that
• 42:03
  then escape. Into the forest.
• 42:05
  They're running around and they're really at the the brink
• 42:09
  on this point. They are, you know, let's say
• 42:11
  Barbara's quite broken at one point, but you know, they then
• 42:15
  have that moment of of switching, you know, switching
• 42:19
  from being defeated to being heroes and saving a life and you
• 42:24
  know cracking on with with the show.
• 42:27
  So for, for that moment, for the drama of.
• 42:32
  You know what they go through and how much they have to suffer
• 42:34
  to come out the other side. I think that's why episode three
• 42:37
  really stands out for me. Two sweaty, hairy men have brawl
• 42:48
  in episode four. No, no.
• 42:51
  OK, I'm being facetious, but I don't think there is a as
• 42:57
  brutal. Action sequence in Doctor Who of
• 43:01
  this, I think there's great action sequences after this, you
• 43:04
  know, Ambassadors one that you and I talked about Fraser and
• 43:08
  things like that, but in terms of like two people wanting to
• 43:13
  murder each other and going about it in our most brutal way
• 43:18
  possible. And then how that ends with
• 43:21
  having it's skull cracked in. It's probably the most violent
• 43:26
  scene the show ever gave us. And I know the kids loved it
• 43:29
  because they were writing in letters, but I think that's a a
• 43:32
  wonderful scene. Yeah.
• 43:34
  I mean, it never quite goes back there, does it?
• 43:37
  It's not like you say, not to the extent where you you know
• 43:43
  one of these characters is not going to live at the end of this
• 43:46
  fight. Oh, we go around again.
• 43:49
  So Fraser can say episode 4. Yes.
• 43:53
  OK, well, if I have to do one more thing, I'm just going to
• 44:00
  go. I love John Smith and the Common
• 44:05
  Men. You are not on flight for
• 44:06
  entirety here, OK, But just in general, I think the score for
• 44:12
  this story is is really underrated as well.
• 44:15
  So Norman K makes this a really spooky experience all the way
• 44:19
  through and it's all conventional instruments.
• 44:21
  So we're not going madly electronic yet, but I think it
• 44:25
  really enhances this story and is really, really good.
• 44:28
  There's some really creepy passages.
• 44:30
  So yeah, that's he's a bit of a forgotten person providing the
• 44:36
  music and he does 3 good scores, very similar, but they're all
• 44:39
  all decent. Freezer.
• 44:42
  In which case I'm going to pick episode 4.
• 44:44
  Oh my God, no. Dazzling.
• 44:47
  What a dazzling choice. Except for SO4 is the one that
• 44:51
  really sets the tone for the rest of the series, because
• 44:57
  episode 4 is the one where you know, they've they've come
• 45:00
  together, the bigger they've argued, they've been
• 45:03
  traumatized, they've been through the ringer, and then
• 45:07
  they come out the other end, and then they start to realize what
• 45:09
  they've got to do. They realize that they've got to
• 45:14
  work together to defeat, as it were, the Cavemen.
• 45:18
  They've got to, you know, outsmart them, overpower them,
• 45:23
  whatever, whatever they needed to, to get out of the situation.
• 45:25
  But they need to kind of work together to do it.
• 45:27
  And that is what happens for the rest of the next 60 years,
• 45:32
  basically, you know. So that's why Episode 4 stands
• 45:37
  out for me. Because you know.
• 45:40
  Everything comes together and starts working.
• 45:44
  We say effectively a different episode every week, isn't it?
• 45:47
  Like, I know that's an obvious thing to say, but it's it's like
• 45:50
  a totally different structured thing every week then the last
• 45:56
  thing. And I feel like we should end on
• 45:59
  a hugely positive note. I would like to choose Verity
• 46:03
  Lambert who. It was the first producer for
• 46:06
  Doctor Who. Not an obvious choice, you know,
• 46:09
  a woman for a star who came in bubbling with enthusiasm and
• 46:15
  smart and great ideas. And effectively, it was her
• 46:19
  drive and commitment that got this thing to the screen twice
• 46:24
  in the case of the first episode.
• 46:27
  And her mark on the show is it's there forever more.
• 46:33
  You know, a lot of the stuff she brought to the show we're still
• 46:36
  doing now. I think she's an incredible
• 46:39
  woman. And you know what?
• 46:40
  Again, let me plug Adventures in Space and Time, because Jessica
• 46:43
  Rain does a fabulous turn as Verity Lambert in that.
• 46:46
  And if you want to sort of see the struggles she went through,
• 46:49
  as sanitized as that might be, it's all there.
• 46:52
  But yeah, Verity Lambert. Incredible.
• 46:56
  And you know what? If I hadn't got this right, we
• 46:59
  wouldn't be here now. Yeah, and none of us would know
• 47:02
  each other, probably, and our paths would never have crossed.
• 47:06
  And it's Doctor Fucking Who. And it's brilliant.
• 47:10
  The most stupid title of all time.
• 47:12
  Yeah, but you know, right from the start, it's brilliant, I
• 47:16
  mean. Yeah, No.
• 47:18
  Why? Yes, it shouldn't be.
• 47:22
  I my, I told you to last last Sunday.
• 47:27
  I told my mum that Doctor Who in its entirety, the Classic
• 47:31
  series, is on iPlayer and she started watching it from the
• 47:35
  Daleks onwards and it's hooked. Great.
• 47:39
  You know, so it can do it all over again as we know we know
• 47:45
  how brilliant this show is. But wow, I'm.
• 47:48
  Going to leave this ambiguous, but I hear some people stall
• 47:51
  around the web planet apparently.
• 47:56
  So fucking Wasps. Well, this is all you.
• 48:04
  This is all you can. Hear from us.
• 48:07
  Today, but we'll be back for two hours or.
• 48:12
  So it's two. It's nearly three, actually.
• 48:15
  As we discussed, lucky people our.
• 48:18
  Three hour recordings. We discussed the 90 minute power
• 48:22
  of the Is this pair. They don't shut up, honestly.
• 48:28
  Well, happy anniversary boys. Happy anniversary.
• 48:32
  Happy anniversary to those of you at home.