Latest / The Epstein Chronicles / Mega Edition: The Warden's Statement Detailing The Death Of Jeffrey Epstein (Part 14-16) (6/19/26)

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Mega Edition: The Warden's Statement Detailing The Death Of Jeffrey Epstein (Part 14-16) (6/19/26) · The Epstein Chronicles

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Speaker 1: What's up everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
0:03
Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're picking up where we
0:06
left off with the warden from MCC and his interview
0:11
with the OIG inspectors. Question, now, is that you know
0:16
all staff that was in there or is it like
0:18
really the warden cuts them off, and again you probably
0:22
have to speak to the captain who was responsible for
0:24
doing the checks and doing the count. Question and so
0:28
would the captain have some responsibility on this too? Answer? Well,
0:32
did the captain he's in charge of correctional services, so
0:35
that's the unit he is over question okay, answer, so
0:39
he has overall responsibility to make sure you know, in
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conjunction with the lieutenant that the unit is running the
0:45
way it's supposed to run. Question and what should have
0:50
the captain done in order to make sure that that
0:52
was accurate? Answer? Well, now, there's different ways of finding
0:56
out if stuff is accurate, Like you have the perpetual
0:59
audit system where they're responsible to Lieutenants are responsible to
1:03
conduct perpetual audits, so you can find out through those
1:07
when you do it, and they are usually quarterly. But
1:10
if there is a discrepancy and things are going on.
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In that department of correctional services. We have what we
1:16
call perpetual audits, which you maintained the records of, and
1:20
that is another check and balance where you would find
1:23
out if something is wrong. Question and how often are
1:27
those done? Answer? Those are done quarterly question? Quarterly answer? Yeah,
1:32
question all right. So the fact that this we are
1:36
talking about like ten or eleven days, there's a good
1:39
chance that they weren't done during this time period. Or
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do you know when they would have been done? Are
1:44
they done like on a certain date? Answer? What the
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quarterly question? Yeah? Answer, I don't know when the dates
1:52
of the quarter starts. But that is your checks and balance.
1:56
You know, you do your perpetual audit and then you
2:00
catch it and you say, oh wow, we did an
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audit and this is wrong, and then you come up
2:05
with a corrective action to fix it. Question. So that's
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how the captain could have determined I guess, but how
2:12
in those ten or eleven days, how would that have
2:15
been caught? Answer? Again, you would have to see your
2:19
inmate accountability board. You know, you're a match in centry
2:22
if you're pulling off sentry and matching it with what
2:25
is on the board. Question. But and I apologize that
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I'm beating a dead horse here, but like, who does
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that answer? Again, I don't know who, you know, who
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the lieutenant assigned it to, who the OIC. You know,
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everybody has different duties and different ways they work. Question,
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So it's not like not like morning Watch does this,
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or it's just based upon passed down from lieutenants to
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the OIC or to whoever answer right, like what to know?
2:57
But basically when you decide to do it, you know,
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I mean, I can't see on the midnight shift you're
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doing an accountability check like that because the guys are
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sleeping and you know you're looking for a living, breathing body,
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but you can't physically see them, you know. So that
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shift was picked to check and say, okay, let's make
3:16
sure our cell the accountability in the cell. So I
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can't I can't really speak. He gets caught off by
3:23
the investigator. Sure, that's fine, all right, let's get this
3:26
stuff out of the way, if you don't mind. And
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again we have comments from the peanut gallery. Mister Hayes, am,
3:32
I right that we're getting close to the bottom of
3:34
the pile. Question. We are, We're getting close Hayes because
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Jesus Christ, I can't take this question. We are indiscernible
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with this question. So this is the email with all
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the rounds and the shoe assignment and these were separate.
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Hayes again with another question. Now let me ask the
3:56
indiscernible the supervisors. Your job is the prison. It's your
4:00
job to look down into the prison as far as
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these counts and geno accountability boards and so forth. Answer no,
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I mean that's what you have the captain for and
4:12
the lieutenant for, you know question and then we touched
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on this before, But this is an email that the
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captain sent to you regarding the lieutenant rounds on eight
4:22
nine and eight ten. He sent them. He sent this
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email on August eleventh, twenty nineteen. He said, Warden, here
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are the lieutenant rounds for eight nine and eight ten.
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Below are the workstations logged onto complete rounds. But again
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for you, a lieutenant round and I don't know if
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we ever came to that conclusion or that we may
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have got off topic on that, but a lieutenant round
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is used primarily to check and it's not necessarily to
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go down the different ranges. Answer on the midnight shift
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so they typically not, you know, unless they have an issue.
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But like you said, you as a lieutenant can walk
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should walk around and see. Now the midnight shift is hard,
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but the other shifts you you know, walk around, see
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what's going on? Question? All right, So should they though,
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be walking down the ranges on both the morning or
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the day watch and the night watch evening watch. Answer,
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this is what I will say. You probably got to
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look at the post orders and see the post orders. Question. Yeah,
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the post orders aren't clear with that. We haven't. We
5:30
haven't been able to specifically, he gets cut off by
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the warden. It's not That's what I mean. It's not
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a requirement question. Okay. Answer. You know, for the undiscernible,
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they're in there making rounds, checking the books to see.
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If you got a problem on the range, you would
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call that. But most lieutenants do, you know, just walk
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the range just to see what's going on. Question. Because
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most lieutenants that we talked to said that they were
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absolutely required to do around, just like the shoe staff
6:03
member was to do around. Some lieutenants, specifically lieutenants that
6:07
work that day, said nope, there is no requirement to
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do that. So that's where I'm at as the warden.
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He gets cut off by the warden. Well, no, the
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expectation is, like you hit any unit, you make your
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rounds within the unit. The shoe unit is no different
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that you say, Hey, I'm going to go in there,
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make sure everything is you know, check on the inmates
6:30
and make sure they're fine. But if we're talking about
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the post orders, where they required to the post you know,
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the post orders, I don't believe had the requirement that
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they have to, you know, physically go in indiscernible question
6:45
So does that If I understand you correctly, the expectation
6:49
was that they conduct around just like a shoe staff member.
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But there is no requirement to do so. Answer yeah,
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you should be walking around. Question all right, But it's
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not like you told them, you gave them a directive
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make sure you're doing this. Answer no, question, So there
7:07
is no So if someone wasn't doing it, it's not
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like something they would be disciplined for. Answer. See, that's hard.
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I mean you say discipline. There is a difference between
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what is written down and what you need to be doing.
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I mean, if you're coming in and I enter there
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as a supervisor, I want to see what's going around
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the unit. I might ask the officers, all right, do
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we have any problems the inmates when you come on, Hey,
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they know the lieutenants on, Hey, lieutenant, I need to
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talk to you. So you're going down the ranges, you know,
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so when you are going down the range, you're seeing something.
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You get to another range, the inmates said, hey, I
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need to talk to you. So it's something that you
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should be doing as part of your rounds and going
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up into the shoe just walking around make sure that everything.
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He gets cut off by the investigator. But if you're
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still the warden of the MCC and found out that
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you're lieutenants when they were signing off on doing rounds
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and you found out that they were only checking in
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with the staff members and they were not actually walking
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down the ranges, is that something that you would find problematic? Answer?
8:11
I would correct it. Question And when you say correct it,
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what do you mean by that answer? I would tell,
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you know, get with the captain and I would tell
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the captain they need to be you know, in inmate grounds,
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they need to walk the ranges. Question, So they should
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be walking the ranges? Then answer off of the post
8:30
orders it's not in there, you know, any place saying
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that you have to do it. But as a supervisor that,
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like any unit you walk on, you want to see
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what's going on in the unit. So do I want
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to use the word sound correctional judgment, you know, just
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to see as a supervisor what's going on. I mean,
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you have some people that go above and beyond and
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then do their job, and you have some people that
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want to do the barrass minimum. But that's something from
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a round's point of view, I would say you need
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to make those rounds. Hayes jumps in again. Okay, let
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me ask you a question. You do the rounds? Does
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that mean literally walk up and down this what would
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I call it the cell block? Answer? Yeah, you walk
9:13
around the unit. You know, you're interacting with inmates. You're
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talking to the inmates. Same thing with the inmates and shoe.
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You know you're walking around. Hey, what's going on? Question?
9:23
So what you are not familiar with is the way
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the shoe is set up? Answer right, question, there's different
9:30
levels and there's different hallways. Hayes. Know what I remember
9:37
about the shoe it's fucking cold. Question. Yeah, So like
9:40
if you were just you can simply go in and
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go to the officer's station and check in with the
9:45
staff and say everything good, you got all your paperwork
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in order. All your paperwork is actually right here on
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the desk. Did you find it problematic that they're keeping
9:54
all of their round sheets on the desk versus on
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the ranges themselves. Answer? Different places do it different ways.
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Some places have it they keep it at the end
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of the ranges and you sign it. Some have it
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right there the log you know, take the log book
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and they just sign it. He gets cut off by
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the investigator. So the individuals, the Ops lieutenants and activities
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lieutenant that we spoke to that worked on August ninth
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and tenth, a majority of them said, if not all
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of them, no, no, no. All I needed to do
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was go to that officer's station, check in with my officers,
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make sure their paperwork is done, and then I left.
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Every other lieutenant that we talked to said, no, when
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you sign that paper, you're signing it just like you
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conducted around, as if the shoe staff conducted around. You
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had to go down every range, make sure everything was
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good to go. You're not just checking on. So what
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we're trying to say, is which one is right? Answer? Well, now,
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for the ones that are saying that I don't have
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to go down and check every range, they're going off
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the post office. The ones that are doing their job,
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they're going around and checking every time, making sure that
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the well being of the inmate, and you're checking on
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the well being of your staff. Question all right, so
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it kind of sounds like nobody is right and nobody
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is wrong. They need to change the post orders. Answer, well,
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they would, they should have their post orders, but they
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should be going around for the wellness check. Question. Okay,
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So no one technically did anything wrong, they should just
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really do it. Answer? They should? They should just do it?
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Question Okay, fair enough. All right, we're gonna wrap up
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right here and in the next episode dealing with the topic,
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we're gonna pick up where we left off. All the
11:45
information that goes with this episode can be found in
11:49
the description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome to another
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episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're gonna
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get right back to the warden from mcc and his
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interview with the OIG inspectors. Question, So no one technically
12:05
did anything wrong, they should just really do it. Answer?
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They should, they should just do it. Question okay, fair enough. Answer.
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The term used was sound correctional judgment. Question all right,
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So that again, was that email from redacted to you
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with the lieutenant rounds Hayes, that pile is a lot lower.
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Wait a minute, Wait a minute, I'm fucking out of here.
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If you bring that pile back up, I'm out of
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here now. I'm going to give you some of that
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money back, but I can't take this shit. No more. Question.
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So this one says it's to you who is redacted? Answer?
12:40
He was a manager there for the PCU unit. Question
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okay at the MCC answer. Yeah. Question it's as subject
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weekly rounds as requested. So these are weekly rounds from
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August fourth, tenth, twenty nineteen. What is that for? Question?
12:59
That was for phonetic spelling, no name there. Question So
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you actually had your own separate witness unit. Answer? Yeah. Question,
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so that's not just in the shoe, or is it? Answer?
13:13
Huh No, that's not in the shoe. That's a separate
13:15
unit altogether. Question So why was this provided for any reason? Answer?
13:21
Because I like to I used to like to track
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who was making the rounds and not making their rounds.
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Question all right. Answer, so they had to send it
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to me every week. Question so that was just a coincidental,
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nothing to do with Epstein. Answer, Yeah, this had nothing
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to do with it. This was probably what he had
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to send up that week. Question. Okay, answer, It was
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the end of the week, so that's what he sent
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So that had nothing to do with him. Question So
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this has nothing to do with Epstein. Answer no, question,
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All right, I'm not even going to You can keep
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that over here so we don't get confused. All right,
13:57
So this one, as far as this one, it says
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from you to mister redacted. It says shoe rounds. Answer,
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uh huh. Question what shoe rounds are we looking at here?
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This is a new document here. Question okay, this is
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eight for the week starting. This is starting for eight
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to four and the rounds so this is these are
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my rounds that I'm doing. Question Now, is there some
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kind of a requirement that you conduct rounds? Answer? Yeah,
14:25
the wharton is supposed to go up he gets cut
14:28
off by the investigator. So you're supposed to conduct rounds
14:31
in the shoe. Answer yeah, about once a week, like
14:35
you can go up there as many times, but you
14:37
know the warden is supposed to be going So yeah,
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I go in the shoe, I walk around, and I
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do rounds in every area of the institution. So question
14:47
and is everyone on here supposed to do around weekly?
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Because I have never seen this round sheet until reviewing
14:53
your emails. Answer, No, this is every bureau institution as this.
14:57
This is where you sign into the special housing unit.
15:00
This is the log, and this is showing that they
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made their rounds. So these are the lieutenants right here
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showing that they made the rounds. So at the end
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of the week, when they send me the round sheet,
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and let's say it looked like this, my question would be, Okay,
15:14
did they make the rounds or did they forget to
15:16
make the rounds? Question? Is this the same thing? Answer
15:21
for the lieutenants. It would be question just the lieutenants
15:24
and no one else. Answer yeah, no one else. This
15:26
is computer service. The duty officer has to go up there.
15:31
Question now, so this shows that you did two rounds.
15:34
Answer right, question and you're only required to do one
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correct answer? Yeah, question AW Programs answer that she did
15:44
it on Friday. Question. So the fact that AW Operations
15:47
has nothing in there is that problematic answer. And here
15:51
is the other thing that could have happened. A lot
15:53
of times they make the rounds. Sometimes they forget to
15:56
initial and sign it. Question all right answer? So what
16:01
I would do is I would look at it and say, Okay,
16:04
when I got at the end of the week, what happened?
16:06
How come you didn't make your rounds? Question? So all
16:10
these blank spaces where these people supposed to be doing
16:13
rounds in the shoe answer not everybody is required. They
16:16
should have been up there, but they are not required
16:19
like the finance facility, food services, but health services has
16:23
to make rounds. Question you're getting it? Answer the PA's
16:29
psychology you know. Question, So which one on here that
16:34
are actually required to conduct rounds? Answer? You have the
16:39
unit team that's supposed to go up the lieutenants question, Well, sis,
16:43
it doesn't appear that they did any rounds, but I'm
16:46
assuming they certainly should have correct answer SIS should have
16:50
been up there to go around so and again I
16:53
would look at it and see who was on leave?
16:55
Somebody might have been on leave. Not on leave? Question?
16:59
And what are so when these types of individuals, it
17:01
looks like more high levels such as I mean obviously
17:05
you're the highest level that is warden round. Look like,
17:09
what does that look like? Do you have to walk
17:11
around the range or is that what you do? Answer?
17:15
What I do is I walk around and I go
17:17
to every cell and I talk to the guy. Got
17:19
any issues, any problems? They're like, no, I'm good. You
17:23
might have some that say, hey, I'm up here for
17:25
an investigation? Why am I here? Why am I up here?
17:28
So I take my little notes? Okay, fine, so I
17:32
can address it right there. Some of it I can.
17:34
But I would typically walk around what we would call
17:38
the shoe roster, which that is the reason why you're
17:41
up there? Why am I up here? And you know
17:43
a lot of times you go buy it and it
17:45
says like, you know, why are you locked up? And
17:49
then they would say, well, how come the investigation is
17:52
taking so long? And it would depend if the FBI
17:55
had it, if it was an OIG investigation, it would depend.
17:58
So you know, I would usually tell them like, you know,
18:01
it's an outside agency handling this. We are in contact
18:04
with them, and somebody will come see you question okay answer.
18:10
Some could be up for administrative like an incident report. Question.
18:13
So you went through and talk to everybody. But were
18:16
you required to do that or is that just because
18:19
you were a good employee? Answer, I mean that's what
18:22
you should be doing. Question, that's what you should do. Question,
18:25
that's what you should do. But I mean, like you
18:27
talked about before, well the post orders, they don't say that. Answer, Well,
18:32
I don't have post orders. Question right? Answer Yeah, so,
18:36
I mean he gets caught off by the investigator. But
18:39
you are. But something does say that you're required to
18:41
do it once a week. Answer there's nothing in writing
18:45
to tell me I have to do it. But just
18:47
like I visit every area, I have to, I visit
18:50
every area of the institution, you know, make sure I
18:53
see every employee going there and on and off their shifts. Yo,
18:57
how could these people actually have these jobs. They're all
19:00
barely literate. It's unbelievable, Hayes, it's a surprise. In other words,
19:05
you're telling me or them you're coming. You're just going
19:09
answer by the warden. Yeah, I'm coming up. I'm making
19:12
my rounds. I'm sitting talking to staff. What's your issue?
19:15
I mean, it's more the issue of them just work. Question.
19:20
So when you're saying that there's nothing in writing saying
19:22
that you should do it, or is there something in
19:24
writing saying these people that didn't do it that they
19:27
should have done it? Answer? No, and there could be
19:29
reasons now they and this is what I would get
19:33
the report and look into, like there are people that
19:37
make the rounds, they come up to the shoe, but
19:39
they forget to sign in question right answer, So when
19:43
I get the report, I would, you know, talk to
19:45
the captain that this the entrance log and say, hey,
19:48
why didn't such and such make a round? Now that
19:51
AW might have been out that week? And I had
19:54
this one covering both, so they came up with the aw. Question, Now,
19:59
is there a any way to determine, like these people that,
20:02
for instance, visited on Friday, what time they visited because
20:06
this is the day that Reys was gone. So it
20:08
says the captain was in there on Friday. Answer uh huh.
20:12
Question should they have noticed that Rays wasn't there? Answer?
20:16
Not necessarily if he didn't go down range and he
20:19
could have come up and remember we have ten South
20:21
that's connected, so I don't know if he came up there,
20:24
you know for an issue for ten souths So I
20:27
don't know. And then him making his rounds. Even if
20:30
he's making his rounds, you're going to have empty cells
20:32
on the range. Question, Oh you will answer, yeah, Well,
20:37
somebody could be at medical somebody could be at their
20:41
attorney visit. Question. So it wouldn't cause like a red flag.
20:46
You don't think if he saw like Epstein cell empty. Answer, well,
20:51
if the empty cell is empty, the first thing you're
20:53
saying he's down on attorney visit because the rounds were
20:56
made during the daytime question and in that note would
21:01
they say though, because it says redacted and it looks
21:04
like redacted was there too? Should have those two people
21:07
if they actually did around say Epstein is down there,
21:10
but where is reyus? Answer? I mean they could have.
21:14
I mean, but Reys could have been in the shower,
21:16
you know. Question, But it wouldn't be something that would
21:21
be normally asked. Answer no question. It was like, oh, Epstein,
21:25
high profile guy, where's his cell mate? Answer No, I
21:30
mean you're just saying, Okay, Epstein is downstairs his you know,
21:34
or maybe his self an hernie visit. It could have
21:37
been on a shower day, he could have been in wreck. Question. Okay,
21:42
so you are more concerned about the people that are
21:45
there as opposed to those who weren't there, it sounds
21:48
like to check in with them. Answer that, I mean
21:52
you want to see making sure you are around making rounds,
21:55
talking to everyone. So I don't know what you know,
21:58
what the thought process is is or you know if
22:01
somebody was in the shower or not? Question? Uh huh,
22:05
sure no, And I'm not trying to get you to
22:08
say that. Answer the entire of three times Monday typically
22:14
it's Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. And that was in response
22:18
to a question by Hayes who asked how many days
22:21
you can take a shower when you're in the shoe? Question?
22:25
And what about this one? This one is from redacted
22:27
to you weekly rounds on August twelfth, twenty nineteen. Answer
22:34
the PCU that's the PCU unit question the WITSEC unit answer,
22:40
Uh huh question? All right, so this might be the
22:43
exact same thing. All right, that sounds good. Do you
22:47
mind just initially and dating that question? Redacted? You had
22:52
two follow up questions before we move on? Why don't
22:55
you ask those? And this is the other investigator asking
22:58
questions now? Question if the count rounds were done as
23:02
they were supposed to be done, let's say, in the
23:04
afternoon by the Shoe CEOs, would they have caught the
23:07
fact that Epstein's cell was empty and inmate Reyus was
23:12
actually not where he was supposed to be in terms
23:14
of that if he was assigned. If Epstein was required
23:17
to have a cell mate and Reys was transferred, would
23:20
they have caught on to the fact that Epstein needed
23:23
a cell mate? Answer, I don't understand. Question. Let's say
23:30
Reyes was transferred, right answer, uh huh. Question if the
23:33
count and the rounds were done in the afternoon, the
23:36
four pm count, the rounds in between, if they were done,
23:39
would the shoe CEOs have caught on to the fact
23:42
that Rays was missing from his cell? Answer but they
23:45
already knew that question if the word of mouth had
23:49
made it up the stuff in the memo and redacted says,
23:52
redacted never told me that answer right, question that they
23:56
say that that's bullshit and he's lying. The people that
23:59
he said were present say the same thing. He didn't
24:03
say that, So a point being as well, if redacted
24:06
didn't pass that information on, if they were actually conducting
24:09
their rounds, should they have noticed that he wasn't there? Answer? Yeah,
24:13
if they knew that he didn't if they knew they
24:16
knew that what's his name? Epstein wasn't supposed to have
24:18
a cell mate. So if you see a cell on
24:20
there that I guess, and on the outside of the
24:24
cell they would have his name and the other person,
24:27
then you should be saying, Okay, where's the cell mate?
24:29
We know he's not in the attorney room question meaning
24:32
if they actually did the rounds and the counts like
24:34
they were supposed to, there was more than enough time
24:37
for them to turn around and assign another cell mate
24:39
if needed, or to say, of course, to your point
24:42
where they're saying that nobody ever told them if you
24:45
were making your rounds, you would have saw that there
24:47
was nobody in the cell and then ask you a question,
24:50
where's he at? Answer on the shift it's a lieutenant
24:55
who would check. But now, in fairness to the lieutenant,
24:58
if you're going off of a sheet and the sh
25:00
sheet says, hey, you made you rounds and then something
25:02
like this happens, then you find out people didn't make
25:04
their rounds. Question by the investigator and I think that
25:08
redacted question to you was does this suggest to you
25:11
that they were not actually conducting their rounds? The fact
25:14
that Reyes was gone for twenty four hours and the
25:17
notifications weren't made. Answer, it would appear. Yeah, that that
25:22
is the appearance question. I just have one other question.
25:26
Have you ever heard of coeos prefilling roundsheets? Answer the
25:30
other investigator dives in when he says pre filling. What
25:33
he's saying is that the beginning of their shifts, they're
25:36
going in and they're just writing, they're initially and putting
25:39
it in the time at the very beginning for the
25:41
rest of their shift. So let me put it to
25:44
you this way. If I because if I become aware
25:49
and I know that somebody is doing something like that,
25:52
that is a reportable misconduct. I'm going to report that.
25:55
So if somebody came to me and said, well, this
25:57
person is pre filing out count slips, that would be
26:00
something that I would say, Okay, you know I have
26:02
to do a referral or I don't have enough evidence
26:05
for it. I would have a supervisor, you know, put
26:07
it out said hey, you can't do pre count slips. Question. So,
26:12
if we have people confessing admitting that they're not only
26:14
pre filling out their count slips, but also doing it
26:17
with a round sheets, what's your response to that? How bad?
26:21
How bad is that? Answer? Well, that is a referral.
26:24
I would have to do a referral for you guys
26:26
to look into. Question And then if they're actually pre
26:30
filling those out, does that also suggest to you that
26:33
they didn't do their accounts or their rounds? Answer? Well,
26:36
I mean, if they're telling you that we pre filled
26:38
it out, it's obvious that they did not. They're not counting.
26:43
Question right. Answer Because if somebody is pre filling out
26:45
the sheet, that means they have no intention of counting.
26:49
Question And does that indicate to you as the warden
26:51
that they're a falsely certifying rounds and counts that they
26:54
did not conduct. Answer If they come to you and
26:58
they say, hey, we didn't fill out on our counselate,
27:01
that is an admission of misconduct. Question right, but a
27:05
false certification as well. Correct answer, Yeah, that is falsifying
27:09
the document. I mean, but they have admitted that to you.
27:12
But as far as me, he gets cut off. Now,
27:16
what if you what if they are saying they are
27:19
a newer employee and they're saying, well, we are doing
27:22
it because we watched a twenty year old guy twenty
27:24
year guy do it. That's how I learned. He didn't
27:26
tell me to do it, but I watched him do it. Answer,
27:31
so I would, So I would say to you, when
27:33
did that person come in? Because anybody that came in
27:36
under me, you get the spiel that Hey, I was new,
27:39
I was an officer. I know what it's like to
27:41
be new. But I always tell people, you got to
27:43
know it's near you and dear to you. Question. And
27:47
that's why I ask you specifically with tovin Noel, are
27:50
you confident that you gave her the spiel? Answer? Talk
27:53
to whoever was in her class, and you talk to
27:55
any any new class that came through, and they'll tell
27:59
you my spiel. Question. Okay, answer, okay, you can go
28:03
into your annual training when we have it, talk to
28:06
people and they'll tell you about my shpiel. Question. Do
28:10
you say that always that annual training answer? I cover
28:13
everything because I have to. I do. I tell people
28:18
about doing their job, the same thing when it comes
28:20
to use of force, I tell staff all the time,
28:22
use enough force necessary to control the situation. Question, but
28:27
specifically about not watching the twenty year guy, what do
28:30
you tell them about that? Answer? So, what I tell
28:33
them is come in right. So what I basically tell
28:37
them I said, you got some good people that work
28:39
in the institution. And then I had you got some
28:42
people with time and just what you want to do
28:45
with them, and I tell them don't follow them around.
28:47
I said, you've got one. If you're on probation coming in,
28:50
you need to be doing your job. I said, if
28:52
someone comes in and they're not doing their job and
28:55
they're telling you not to do something, you make sure
28:57
you let your supervisor know. I said, I makes you
29:00
can talk to me. Question, okay, answer you know. So
29:04
the expectation was clearer. But with any other agency, and
29:08
I'm not just saying our agency, there are people that
29:11
come in and they become followers. All right, folks, We're
29:15
going to wrap up right here, and in the next
29:16
episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where
29:19
we left off. All the information that goes with this
29:21
episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone,
29:25
and welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In
29:29
this episode, we're going to pick up where we left
29:31
off with the warden from MCC and his interview with
29:35
the OIG investigators. Question now, we're going to move on.
29:40
We talked about the phone call on August ninth. What
29:43
is your understanding of what transpired with Epstein being provided
29:46
a phone call on the night of August ninth, twenty nineteen. Answer, So,
29:50
from what I understand, when you come in, you have
29:53
to be able to do for the monitored called the
29:55
voice analysis and all that. So, from what I understand, afterwards,
29:59
Epstein was never available for that to be done because
30:02
he went down to the attorney room, so he would
30:05
come up at night. So from what I understand, he
30:07
was given an unmonitored call. Question and what do you
30:11
mean by an unmonitored call? Answer? An unmonitored call is
30:16
a call that is not recorded with the INMDE phone system.
30:19
Question is it your Is it your understanding that anyone
30:24
physically monitored the call? Or did you he gets cut
30:27
off by the warden. From what I understand, the individual
30:30
was standing right there when he made the call. Question
30:33
all right, So it's our understanding that on August ninth,
30:36
twenty nineteen, Epstein made a request to the MCC unit
30:40
manager redacted to provide him with a phone call so
30:43
that he Epstein could call his mother. Redacted checked Epstein's
30:48
pack and pin and found out it was not yet
30:50
set up. Therefore, Redacted to Epstein to a shower in
30:54
the shoe and plugged in a phone into a legal line.
30:57
Redacted dialed the number, A man answered, He handed the
31:01
phone to Epstein, and then Redacted left for the day.
31:04
Redacted staid, oh, sorry. Then we found out that the
31:08
Shoe CEOs were around, and Redacted did not specifically instruct
31:12
any of them to monitor their phone call. Instead, he
31:16
called the Shoe after he departed from MCC to make
31:19
sure that the phone was taken away from Epstein after
31:21
his alloted time. Had you heard this before? Answer? I have.
31:26
What I heard was he was there and did the monitoring.
31:31
Question So your understanding was that Redacted was there the
31:34
entire time of the call. Answer that at the entire
31:37
time of his call. Question. So a number of questions
31:41
off of that. The fact that Redacted dialed the number
31:43
that he gave him and the man called, A man
31:46
answered who He said he was calling his mother? A
31:49
man answered, and he gave him the phone. Is that
31:51
problematic to you? Answer? I didn't hear that it was
31:55
a who did I? They said it was his It
31:59
came out out. I didn't hear until after the fact,
32:02
so I didn't hear any specifics, but I heard it
32:05
was I forgot who they said it was that he called,
32:08
but then afterwards they said whoever they said it was
32:11
was deceased, that he didn't have that talk. Question I
32:15
think it was his mother? Answer yeah, I think it
32:18
might so, and that that is what I heard. Question
32:21
and the person who answered the phone was a mel
32:23
But he still gave the phone to mister Ebstein. Is
32:26
that problematic that he says he wants to talk to
32:28
his mother, a man answers, and then he gives the
32:31
phone to mister Ebstein. Answer well, remember I'm hearing this
32:36
that it was a call that all along said, I'm
32:40
calling the mother. I don't know anything about a man
32:42
answering the phone. Question No, no, no, I'm providing this
32:46
information as in, like you are the warden, what is
32:49
your take on this? Did he do something wrong here? Answer? Well,
32:53
as far as you you know, you're saying you want
32:56
to talk to your mother and then a man answers
32:58
the phone. Yeah, it might have been some questions he
33:01
should have been asking question, should have he verified who
33:05
it was that he was providing if he was giving
33:08
him an unmonitored call on an unmonitored line, should he
33:12
have verified who it was that he was on with
33:15
on the other line? Answer right, if a mail picked
33:18
up the phone, Hayes, Why do you know it's an
33:22
unmonitored line. Question because the legal line isn't recorded, Hayes,
33:27
So that means unmonitored it's not recorded. Question correct. On
33:33
that note, were there any lines that mister redacted could
33:36
have plugged the phone into that were monitored versus if
33:40
they didn't have a pack and a pin? Answered not
33:43
on the ranges, but I believe I'm not sure. Question
33:47
No answer, I don't think there was anything on there.
33:50
Question because, yeah, we had been told by someone that many,
33:53
if not most BOP facilities have the ability if a
33:57
pack and pin such as that wasn't said up there
34:00
are lines that you could plug into that are monitored.
34:03
But at MCC that wasn't the case. In the shoe
34:07
answer not on the range. Question Okay, question you said
34:11
not on the ranges? Answer yeah, question where would it be?
34:15
Answer I'm not sure. I think religious services might have
34:18
a line the chaplain question, but not in the shoe.
34:22
Answer not in the shoe. Question. Okay, so not only
34:26
did he do that, but he left the shoe for
34:28
the day. Obviously he was supposed to sit there and
34:31
listen to the call. Correct answer, right question, should he
34:36
have put it on the speakerphone answer? Either listen to
34:38
the call or if he had somebody else take it over?
34:41
The call question? Okay, answer, you know somebody should have
34:44
been monitoring the call. Question all right? Now, the fact
34:47
that you you know, obviously redacted drop the ball there.
34:50
He gave him a call. He just wanted to talk
34:53
to his mom, his mom's deceased, and a mal answered. Second,
34:58
he didn't stay to listen to the call. Third, he
35:00
didn't tell anybody else to listen to the call. Now,
35:04
the fact that the other he leaves the unit, the
35:06
fact that the other people are in the unit, should
35:08
have they then at some point also said like, hey,
35:11
this guy's on a phone call, let's go monitor it.
35:14
Or should that have been something that redacted would have directed? Answer? Yeah,
35:20
you couldn't, But that's what I'm saying. I don't know
35:23
the conversation that took place between them. If the call
35:26
was made and somebody was told to go monitor it,
35:28
did they go over it. Did they not go over it? Question? No,
35:34
So mister redacted told the people he's on the phone call,
35:37
get it back after whenever it was fifteen minutes they
35:41
were giving him an unmonitored call. Hayes. The significance of
35:45
this is that if somebody had a monitor of the
35:49
phone call, they might have found out that he was
35:51
very depressed or gets cut off by the question, well
35:55
there is. Can you tell us why it's important for
35:57
us to know what the inmates we're talking about on
35:59
their phone phone calls? Answer? I mean, just for the
36:03
safety and the security of the institution. Question is it
36:07
true that they could potentially operate their business there are
36:10
legal businesses from there? Answer? You could question, or they
36:15
call a hit on someone, or they could do a
36:17
lot of different illegal activity. If we're not monitoring those calls,
36:21
we wouldn't know. He gets cut off by Hayes. All right.
36:26
I have one more story. I'm a young lawyer, and
36:30
I know it's hard to believe I was ever young,
36:32
but I go I'm supposed to interview a prison and
36:35
I go to the interview and he says this person
36:37
is in the main rat against and I said, no,
36:40
he's not. I said that person that God the fuck
36:44
nothing to fucking do with it. He don't say nothing
36:46
about you. Guy looks at me and says, oh, man,
36:49
I better make a phone call, whatever that means. Question, so,
36:54
is it standard practice to allow inmates to make personal
36:57
calls as redacted had done? Answer? You do sometimes if
37:03
they come in they don't have a pack number, like
37:05
you could have a family member that's passed away, and
37:08
you know, you allow them to make the call under
37:10
that circumstance. You know, I have a pack number set up,
37:13
you know, so sometimes, but you should be monitoring that.
37:17
Sometimes you make a call to another agency and the inmates,
37:20
you know, you verify, hey, this is such and such,
37:23
but you stay and you listen to the conversation. Question
37:30
was there ever an instance that you wouldn't listen to
37:32
the conversation? Answer on an unmonitored line, No, somebody should
37:40
be standing there. Answer all right, And what are your
37:42
thoughts on this specific matter from what we just from
37:45
what I just told you? Answer like I said, if
37:49
it's problematic? If you said if it's the way you said? Yeah?
37:52
Question and is it a serious concern and safety violation? Answer? Well, yeah,
37:58
I mean it's a breach. Question and why answer because
38:02
we don't know what the conversation was. Question, Okay, you
38:06
said you answered that these are just on this note.
38:09
There are just a couple of these. There's a phone call.
38:12
This one says it's from redacted. Do you know who
38:14
that is? Answer? Yeah, he's a supervisory attorney. Question So
38:18
he's an attorney. Oh, okay, that's the same guy, supervisory
38:22
staff attorney. It says for client Jeffrey Epstein. Good afternoon.
38:26
Below please find complaints from Epstein's attorneys. Can you check
38:30
to see if he has toilet paper and that his
38:32
seapap is plugged in. I'm less concerned regarding his complaint
38:36
of having had two calls, but they were on on
38:39
monitored lines, so there is no recording of them. His
38:42
phone account is set up so we could get a
38:44
call on the its when the thirty days has elapsed.
38:48
So it looks like this was actually discussed. And this
38:51
again was on August sixth, twenty nineteen. Do you know
38:55
if this was it looks like this was the whole
38:57
to the whole executive staff and team. Was this talked
39:01
about at all? Answer? It was sent out and that's
39:05
when and I don't recall the timeline. I said, he
39:08
needs to get his stuff set up, that he needs
39:10
anything to get it set up. So I believe that
39:13
that was the day when I sent everybody up there
39:16
in the attorney room area and said get his stuff up.
39:20
Question now, did you the captain I believe in former
39:23
adacted that he would give him his call, just make
39:26
sure it's monitored prior to that, did the captain talk
39:29
to you about this at all? Answer about what? Question
39:33
will affording this? You know, this call on an unmonitored line,
39:37
but just making sure that it was monitored. Answer no question,
39:41
no answer, uh huh. Question But what you had said,
39:45
make sure his pack and pin is set up? Answer? Yeah,
39:48
I had to because there were some other things that
39:51
to get set up, and I said, hey, we got
39:53
to make sure that we can get his stuff going.
39:56
If that's the date, if I remember where everyone went
39:59
up and talked to him at the where he was
40:01
at in the attorney room. Question Okay, now this is
40:05
one that's going to be Now did you were you
40:08
able to print out that that attachment? Answer? No, that's
40:11
just our screen. It's not what they would see. Question.
40:15
So I was just hoping Okay, this is the one
40:17
we got. It's something from redacted? And who is that? Question?
40:23
That's the communications guy. Question correct, and he is in
40:28
charge of like the phones the cameras. Correct answer, yeah,
40:34
question and he's to you. It says phone record one
40:37
oh four answer right. Question said on Saturday, August tenth,
40:42
twenty nineteen, at three oh four pm. Now it has
40:46
an attachment here titled eight nineteen nineteen cap that we
40:50
are unable to open. Do you know what that would
40:53
have been? It appears that it's related to the phone
40:55
call that mister Epstein made. Do you remember if he
40:58
ever received a recording of that phone call? Answer? No,
41:01
I didn't get any recording. Question would it have? He
41:04
gets cut off? None, picks up again, question Ben, maybe
41:09
then the number that he dialed? Answer? I think it
41:12
might and it might have been the number. I'm not sure.
41:15
I can't I don't recall. Question Okay, answer, do you
41:21
remember asking mister daktid to provide you with any specific
41:25
information with regards to the call? Answer? We might have
41:28
called him about the line and what was the number
41:31
that was called? Question? And could they have pulled it up?
41:35
So we might have asked him that answer. No, it was.
41:40
I think it might have been the number that you know,
41:43
I think wanting to pass it on to the FBI question, great,
41:47
do you mind just initially and dating that. All right, folks,
41:50
we're gonna wrap up right here, and then in the
41:52
next episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up
41:55
where we left off. All the information that goes with
41:58
this episode can be found in the description box.