Latest / Beyond Labels Premium / Episode #100: Do Grains Cause Chronic/Autoimmune Disease: What the Science & Case Studies Reveals

Transcript

Episode #100: Do Grains Cause Chronic/Autoimmune Disease: What the Science & Case Studies Reveals · Beyond Labels Premium

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Over the centuries, as we said, the wheat's undergone significant domestication and breeding in order to improve the yield, to improve disease resistance, and other desirable traits like having higher gluten content.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think the bread that they consumed was different back then than our modern bread.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: As I said, grains had lead gluten, and it was likely made using a fermentation process.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: But I also think we're going to dive more into this.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: Our environmental exposures are different today.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, everybody.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to another episode of Beyond Labels Podcast with uh farmer Joel Salatin.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: That would be me and my uh partner in crime, Dr.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Cena McCullough, the world's best researcher, who, by the way, has made quite a uh uh quite a splash uh in recent um days uh about the no grain.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: And and today we're gonna tackle, we're gonna tackle uh probably one of the most difficult topics we've dealt with because you know, I admit, man, I love bread.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: I love, but I always say I love bread, but bread doesn't love me.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: And um and and and I think that that speaks a little bit to what we're after here.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: And and you know, you go back, I mean, ancient civilizations.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: We we just we just had on uh Dr.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: Natasha Um Campbell McBride, who is also you know, the the most um um questionable food you can eat is grains, seeds.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: And um and so there's this you know, uh do we really want a world without a bakery?
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I mean it it it's the the bakery, uh everything from you know donuts to you know uh um uh you know muffins and whatever are such a part of our um of our our routine in our lives.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, crackers and triscots and and all this stuff.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um you you can't go to a church potluck, you can't go to a to a Super Bowl party, you know, without tons of uh of all this um wheat-based, uh grain-based stuff.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: So anyway, uh it's uh it it's very difficult.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I can tell you uh that it uh uh that that uh I certainly share, I think Cena does too.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: We we both share the uh the angst.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: This is not a fun topic.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: Who doesn't like a big old fluffy loaf of uh uh you know of donut, all right?
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so and so we get uh we understand we feel the pushback uh on this topic, but uh um we've received enough uh questions and interest about it that uh it's time to tackle it.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: And Cena now admits, I've been putting this off for two years, it's time to tackle it.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: So let's tackle it and we're gonna do it.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna do it with with empathy and uh hopefully some humor.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we're not trying to establish a cult, we're not trying to throw a guilt complex on people.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: We're simply trying to help us all um feel better and and live better.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: And that that's our idea.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh with that intro, uh Cena, uh jump us into this topic.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Joel.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, okay, we have a lot to cover today, and I want to reiterate that what Joel said.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: We're just trying to help people who are asking questions and maybe trying to improve their health situation.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I am not against grains.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I don't want that to come off as I'm this anti-grain person.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: I am not.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm gonna be sharing with you what I have found in my own research, what's in the scientific literature, what we're seeing in clinics across the world in terms of how best to reverse disease, and what I've seen with my own clients.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, but I'm not anti-grain.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: So uh there have a lot of questions and comments that we've received about grains in general, and particularly lately, after um Joel's podcast about um talking about inventions and how wheat became so ubiquitous in the food supply.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not gonna read every single email that we received.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: We've condensed them down into five main questions.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: So today we're gonna be talking about one of the questions that we received is why am I qualified to speak about grains?
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, number two is bread is the body of Christ.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: So how could that be bad?
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: Number three is can you tell me more about how grains can cause disease?
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think my child or myself or my, you know, whoever it is, depending on the email, might have issues with grains, but the doctors keep saying we don't.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: Number four is I eat bread all the time and I don't have any issues.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: So why can some people eat bread and have no issues and some people get really sick?
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: And the fifth is, how do I actually know if I do have a problem with grain?
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: All right, so we're gonna try to get through all of that.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, first question: why am I qualified to speak on this matter?
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: All right, so I have a PhD in nutritional biology, which means I'm an expert in how food affects the body in relation to both health and disease formation.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm also a certified gluten-free society practitioner, which means I've demonstrated proficient knowledge in the subject of brains and all gluten-related disorders and conditions.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm an expert in reversing chronic and autoimmune diseases.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and as I said, what I'm sharing today is based on my education, my research, peer-reviewed studies, personal experience, and clinical outcomes from around the world.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm the first to admit there is a lot we do not know about gluten and grains.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: Now I can speak about this topic.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: We can have a whole month podcast on gluten and grains because there's so much information we do know.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but we're gonna just condense it down to important takeaway messages.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: And keep in mind, as I said, there's a lot we don't know.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sharing what we do know.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: Question two, how can we be bad when Jesus told us to eat bread?
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: He said, you know, take, eat, this is my body, right?
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: He said that to his disciples.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: So this is something that I have also grappled with, right, in my healing journey when I found out I wasn't able to um digest grains properly.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I am not a biblical scholar, I am a scientific researcher.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: And what I have studied, discovered in my research is that there is controversy around what the bread was actually like during the time of Jesus and how it was prepared.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I did not live during that time, of course, so I cannot tell you, nor can anybody tell you with 100% certainty what they were actually eating.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: But in my research, what I have found is that there seems to be some consensus that the bread during the time of Jesus was different from the bread commonly eaten today in modern times.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: The exact composition and characteristics of that bread could vary depending on the region, the culture, and the socioeconomic status of the people.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: So we we are, we think that during Jesus' time, the methods of cultivating, milling, and baking were all different from the current industrialized processes we use today.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: So, for instance, the ingredients were probably different.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we know they didn't have the chemical ingredients, right, that we add to our bread today.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: But the bread during Jesus' time was typically made from whole grains like wheat, barley, or millet.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: And the ancient wheat was typically included varieties like emmer, encore, and spelt.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: They were not entirely gluten-free, but their gluten content was typically lower than what we have today.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, they had different properties than the gluten that we find in modern wheat.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: And you spoke to this too, that the gluten content actually increased over time.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: We've actually hybridized the some wheat varieties to make them have a higher gluten content because gluten is what makes the bread fluffy and people like their fluffy breads, right?
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: So we have changed some of this.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: Now, whether or not we've changed the ancient grains, that's controversial as well.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but we do know that even those ancient grains um had less gluten in them than what we have today.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and unlike today's refined flowers, the grains were generally ground into a coarser flour, which retained more of the bran and the germ, which provided additional nutrients as well as a different texture.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: Today we in the industrial process we don't have those um those added nutrients.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Joel, you want to jump in?
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was just gonna say if you've ever been to Germany and eaten what's called uh heavy, heavy German bread, I mean it's full of black speckles.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it's heavy.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, uh a loaf that you, you know, uh uh a loaf the size of one wonder bread.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: If you got wonder bread in the supermarket, a loaf that size of what we know as heavy German bread would weigh like, I don't know, two pounds.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's really, really heavy.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so I I think it's important to realize exactly what you're saying, Cena, that in in the ancient days, they didn't have wonder bread was not wonder bread.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: Bread was not bread was not uh Dunkin' Donuts, uh glazed donuts.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: It it it we we're all about space in the bread.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: They were all about density in the bread, partly because it traveled, you you you could take it with you when you traveled, and you didn't want to take a bunch of you know a bunch of uh um uh you know volume, you wanted to condense that volume in a small space.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: The other thing, let me just say, and again, I I'm not a biblical scholar either, although I have done a lot of biblical study.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: And let me just say one of the one of the beauties of that, of of the you of the communion table, uh, when Jesus uh picked up bread, um at that time, bread was very special.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: Bread was very expensive.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: Grain was hard to get, grain was hard to grow, uh gra uh it was extremely expensive.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um I don't think I would be blasphemous to say that perhaps if that were done today in modern American culture, the communion table would have been filet mignon.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh what I'm suggesting is that that uh although bread was you know known throughout the culture, it was a it was a luxury item.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: Uh uh it was it was not consumed with like it was not as ubiquitous as it is for us today.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so isn't it special that A, Jesus chose something that people thought was very special to represent himself.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: He is special.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: And number two, he chose the one thing in that day that was the most um that that was the most fragile.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: The beauty of the wine is that wine lasts a long time.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't go bad very quickly.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: Bread, real good bread, if you're familiar with really good bread, it gets moldy in a day, especially in the Middle East where it's hot.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh uh so so that's why, you know, in the in the um in the prayer, our daily bread.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: Why you had to make bread every day.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: So in in the communion table, Jesus picked, he picked one item that had to be uh that was fragile, special, and had to be dealt with every day.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and another item, wine, that was extremely stable and was and was very, very seasonal, indicating that our relationship with the Lord uh is both very stable and uh uh uh you know he he loves us no matter what.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's very unconditional and stable.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: And at the same time, maintaining that relationship is extremely fragile and a daily devotional thing.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: So those two elements combined in it.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so in another culture, in another day, would he have picked bread?
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: Well, maybe, maybe so, maybe not.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: We don't know.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: But let's let's not let's not read into it.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the Bible's a real book at a real time, real people, and and let's not read into it more more than it is, just appreciate those properties of bread at that time and what it represented spiritually as a uh uh you know as an object lesson of of their of our relationship with him.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's beautiful.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and and so as you alluded to, the leavening, right?
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: So most ancient um breads we think were unleavened, so it didn't contain yeast or leavening agents.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: Instead, we think they probably um might have used natural fermentation processes or like sourdough starter cultures to make the bread rise just slightly.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: But the bottom line for this context is using that fermentation process or having the sourdough starter, it would also reduce the grain content, sorry, the gluten content of the bread.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: So um they already started with grains that had lower gluten content, then they would either ferment them, um, you know, use the sourdough culture starter, which would further reduce the gluten content.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: Over the centuries, as we said, the wheat's undergone significant domestication and breeding in order to improve the yield, to improve disease resistance and other desirable traits like having higher gluten content.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: The bottom line for this, though, is that I do not think Jesus would tell us to eat something that would hurt us.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think the bread that they consumed was different back then than our modern bread.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, as I said, grains had less gluten and it was likely made using a ferment fermentation process.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: But I also think we're gonna dive more into this, our environmental exposures are different today than what they're exposed to during the time of Jesus.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: And that does affect the way your body digests and utilizes glutins.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it also affects your susceptibility to gluten intolerance and gluten sensitivity.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, for example, they didn't have artificial colors, artificial flavorings, grass chemical, chemical preservatives, GMOs.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't have antibiotics at that point, at least, you know, they had herbals, but they didn't have these patented antibiotics.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: They also didn't have glyphosate, right?
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna talk about that too.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's a patented antibiotic.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: And they didn't have as much exposure to grains and grains derivatives as we do today, right?
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: You and I have talked about this because of the farm bill.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Grains are ubiquitous in our food supply, in personal care products, in cleaning supplies, like you name it.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's everywhere.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so we we just have an overabundance of exposure to grains and grain derivatives.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I do want to point out this is a common theme in our podcast.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: This was a man-made problem, right?
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna see as I get deeper into the connection between grains and diseases.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: This was um largely, in my opinion, a man-made condition.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: All right, so having said that, let's go to the next question, question three.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: Can you tell me more about how grains can cause disease?
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think myself, my child, whoever might have issues with grains, the doctors keep saying that I don't.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: This is what we see in clinic, right?
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: In clinical studies and in case studies where we can reverse diseases.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: We see that gluten and grains are the number one food trigger for all chronic and autoimmune diseases.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, like that's not me saying that.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: This is what we are seeing in clinical practice.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: As you mentioned, Joel, we just interviewed Dr.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: Natasha Campbell McBride, who created the GAPS diet.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: She stated in that interview, which that's going to come out, I think, in a couple of weeks.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: She stated that she has seen every chronic or autoimmune disease reverse following a GAPS protocol, and a foundational tenant is no grains, right?
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: Aside from that, countless case studies of individuals simply going grain-free have actually healed for numerous diseases.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: We know based on the scientific literature, there's over 200 medical conditions that have already been connected to gluten consumption, meaning if you remove gluten, all grains, you'll see these conditions start reversing.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Some of these include things like asthma, infertility, chronic fatigue, depression, skin rashes, acid reflux, anemia, headaches, ear wringing, dizziness, bone loss, IBS.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: We also know, as I said, the glutins, and there's a reason I'm saying plural glutins, which we'll get to in a minute.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: Glutins can contribute to the formation of practically all autoimmune and chronic diseases, Hashimoto's, MS, arthritis, cancer, Crohn's, diabetes, you name it.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: So how does it actually contribute to the formation of, let's say, neurological conditions?
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: Gluten is known in the scientific literature to be a neurotoxin, which means it stimulates neuronal antibodies.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: That means your body makes antibodies against your nerve tissues.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: That can result in MS, dementia, ADHD, autism, brain fog, you know, you met you name it.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: Gluten can also induce high blood sugar levels, right?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: Talk about diabetes.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it can cause vascular damage and inflammation, which could lead to atherosclerosis.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: It can cause inflammation around the heart, leading to pericarditis, right?
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: The list goes on and on.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: These are all documented in the scientific literature.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: Now, some studies have shown that gluten is resistant to complete digestion by the human body.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: And this is part probably because it has a high glutamine and proline content, which we'll get to in a minute.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: But the bottom line is when gluten is not fully digested by the gastrointestinal tract, we say it's partially digested, it will end up producing um large peptide.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: So you start as a gluten is a protein, it's a very large peptide, and it your body breaks it down.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: You want it to be broken down into individual amino acids.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: When you have incomplete digestion, it breaks down into these little peptides, which are just strains of amino acids.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: Those peptides can actually cross the small intestinal barrier and trigger systemic inflammation.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: So it can control it can trigger inflammation within the gastrointestinal truct itself, but also systemically throughout the body.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: And there's been yeah, Cena, are you saying that the that um the incomplete digestion means that you have large peptides rather than extremely small peptides?
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: So what I'm saying is you would have so you'd start with um the gluten in wheat, for instance, is called alpha gliadin.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: It is a large peptide.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: And what happens is it gets digested by pepsin and trypsin, and it gets broken down into four or five smaller peptides.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: So you started with alpha gliadin, a large peptide, your body broke it down into a smaller peptide.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: And if it doesn't get broken down from those smaller peptides into individual amino acids, you can have harm done to the body in the gastrointestinal tract.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: So for instance, two of those small pep smaller peptides are what we call zonulin-inducing peptides.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: Now, zonnulin is a naturally produced hormone-like chemical, and it's very important for your immune system because it allows the immune system to go into the interior of the gastrointestinal tract if you have like an imbalance or something.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it does that by like opening up the gates, okay?
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: And it lets these immune cells into the gastrointestinal tract, and that's regulated by zonulin.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: When gluten is not fully digested, it's broken down into those smaller peptides.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: The result is too much zonulin gets released.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: It binds to a receptor.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: The name isn't important, but it's CXCR3, causes a cascade of reactions to occur, which ends up disrupting the function of your tight junctions.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: We call that leaky gut.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: So too much undigested gluten results in too much zonulin being released or produced, which causes dysregulation of your tight junctions, which can result in leaky gut.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so gluten by itself, if not properly digested, can result in leaky gut on its own.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: But then we have glyphosate, which exacerbates this condition.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: So glyphosate, as you know, has been proposed to affect the gut microbiome.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: It is a patented antibiotic.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: It disrupts these gut barrier functions, so the leaky gut function, uh, sorry, the tyction functions.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it has also been shown to, on its own, induce intestinal permeability, which is leaky gut.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it inhibits our ability to digest gluten.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to briefly explain that because that's our topic for today.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: So we have lining our small intestine.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: We have peptidases.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: These are enzymes that can break down those four or five small gluten peptides that I talked about, those peptides that can be harmful.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: These peptidases can break that down.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: And they can break it down to an amino acid level.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: Now, we know that glyphosate can actually disrupt that process.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it does it by its involvement with DPP4.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's another major protease or enzyme.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: So glyphosate decreases the activity of DT DPP4 enzyme by oxidizing it.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: That means that enzyme can't digest the gluten peptides as well, or it can't digest them at all in some people's cases, and you end up with those harmful gluten proteins in your GI tract.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so that's one mechanism that we that has been figured out as to how glyphosate exacerbates, you know, the gluten sensitivity and gluten intolerance in individuals.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: And now that we know that wheat, for instance, is desiccated with glyphosate, right?
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: So it's sprayed with glyphosate just prior to harvest, this has become a deadly combination for people.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: Again, this is a man-made problem, right?
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: We're applying this synthetic chemical to our food, making the wheat potentially harmful for some people.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: And sure enough, you can find graphs online, like published in the scientific literature, that show an exponential rise in gluten sensitivity, gluten intolerance that tracks with the exponential rise in glyphosate exposure on our food.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: So there is, um, it's not a it's not causation, right?
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: We don't have enough data yet to say this is cause and effect.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's a it's a correlation at this point, it's just an association.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but we do know that glyphosate does exacerbate the incidence, the number of cases of gluten sensitivity, gluten intolerance, and celiac, um, celiac disease.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: Is it can it account for all of the cases?
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well, no, because the first documented case of celiac actually occurred in the late 1800s.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: And this was long before glyphosate was ever invented.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: It was invented in like 1950 or something.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: But celiac and gluten sensitivity actually probably go back further than the late 1800s.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: There's some paleontologists and researchers that have analyzed skeletal remains and historical records, and they have shown, um, found evidence that celiac disease and gluten intolerance probably did exist in some ancient populations.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: And there's some ancient texts and historical accounts that describe symptoms that are consistent with celiac disease.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: So brain seemingly did cause problems for some people prior to the introduction of glyphosate, the introduction of GMOs, and all these other environmental toxins that we have.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: It was clearly not a large-scale number like we see today.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: So it is modern practices, right?
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: Modern toxins, modern contamination that have exacerbated the number of cases that we are seeing.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: And and and and the and the sheer and the sheer volume of ingestion.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the the the uh a lot even even in recent history, I think Cena, you correct me if I'm wrong, but like 1979, the food pyramid came out.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: The the USDA fruit uh food pyramid came out.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: And since 1979, which is that's not that long ago, okay.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of us remember 1979, okay.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um I mean, I was alive.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I was I was you know, I was out of college, okay.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: So so we were some of us are a little older uh than 1979.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: But the point the point I'm making is that I think I'm right on this, that the the amount of of per capita wheat consumption has doubled, doubled since 1979, because that's what's on the bottom of the of the food pyramid.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: So that that became the basis of school lunch programs, of of dietary requirements, of the you know, uh hospital dietitians, the whole dietetic uh thing uh developed uh partly through that.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, uh the the the the amount of of wheat that we eat right now is just uh um i it it's unprecedented in human history.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but but all of us we're you know, we're all myopic.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: We have short memories, we assume that whatever is is, and all those bags of of Kellogg's, you know, of Wheaties and um and and triscots and uh all that, we we just assume well that that they've always been there, and they haven't.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: They haven't.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: And another thing that that was brought to my attention when I was so sick, and I was trying to remove grains from my diet, is that was the first time I realized just how ubiquitous they are.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like most people can identify, oh, it's cereal, it's bread, it's crackers, it's chips, right?
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: But there's so much corn production, right?
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: And it's and it's converted into chemicals that you would not recognize as corn.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's a skill, it's a skill to develop to be able to read a food label and to figure out oh, that chemical compound is actually a corn derivative.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, corn is a grain and it does contain gluten, and we'll get into that in a minute.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: But here, here's a few names just to give you some examples of chemicals that are commonly derived from um from corn.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, vitamin C, commonly derived from corn.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: So think about all the people over the last few years, a couple years that have been consuming tons of vitamin C, right, to ward off a certain infectious agent, right?
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: We'll say, um, they're consuming massive amounts of a corn derivative.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um lactic acid, maltodextrin, citrate, um malic acid, xanthin gum.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: This is a very common ingredient now.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, xanthin gum itself, we know can cause um gastrointestinal dysbiosis.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, xylitol, cellulose.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you've ever looked at like shredded cheese packages.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: They contain an anti, at least all the ones that I had looked at, contain an anti-caking agent.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: So the shreds don't stick together.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: Those are usually corn derived.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: And it's common that they would be cellulose.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: So it's everywhere.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's in your toothpaste, it's in Morton's table salt.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: It is ubiquitous.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so that is a contributing, it's not just glyphosate exposure.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just that there is more glutens, you know, in the wheat now.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's not all the environmental toxins.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's all those things, and it's our massive exposure that we're just not even aware of.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: Then you've got other issues with grains that um that have been documented to contribute to autoimmune and chronic diseases, um, also chronic pain and chronic gut damage.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: Some of those are, you talked about this in your last podcast, Joel, is the mold, right?
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's the largely the way that we're storing the grains.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it could produce mycotoxins, and many people are showing up as being mold sensitive.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: So they may not have a problem that's debilitating with gluten.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: It may be the mold, the mycotoxins that they're being exposed to.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, grains in general have excess omega-6 fatty acids as well.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: In our culture, we already have a great imbalance of omega-3s to omega-6s.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: In general speak, omega-6s are more pro-inflammatory, and omega-3s are more anti-inflammatory.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: This is general, there are caveats.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: So it's shifting the balance toward a more pro-inflammatory state.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: Some of them are high in heavy metals like rice.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and grains have what's called um amylase trypsin inhibitor, which is ATI.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: ATIs are present in all grains and they inhibit the enzymes that the pancreas secretes to help you digest your food.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: The grains inhibit that enzyme.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: So that means the grains that you eat can be um partially undigested in the gut.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: And as I mentioned, this is also a problem.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: They sometimes we we equate it to kind of like they're rotting inside the gastrointestinal tract.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: But not only the grain, any other food that you ate with that meal can potentially also be partially undigested because of the amylase trypsin inhibitors.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so in general, what we see in the literature is that when foods have ATIs, they dramatically slow down digestion and movement or motility through the GI tract.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: Interestingly, these amylase trypsin inhibitors are natural compounds.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: They're like pesticides used by the plant to protect its seeds from being eaten by predators like us.
• 31:14
  unknown: Right?
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: Now, Dr.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: Stephen Gundry wrote about this in his book.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's called the plant paradox.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but basically, the immune system can identify these amylase trypsin inhibitors as invaders and they make antibodies against it.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: It increases the level of inflammation in the gut, can lead to, again, leaky gut, chronic constipation, diarrhea, bloating gash, you name it.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it also contributes to the increasing rise in gluten intolerance, celiacs, gluten sensitivity, non-ciliac gluten sensitivity.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it also contributes to developing IgE-mediated allergies to wheat.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: And we call that non-ciliac wheat sensitivity.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: All right, so there's many different components in grains that can that can induce um different, let's say, disease states or imbalances in people.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: Do we have time to do the next one?
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: Why doesn't everyone get sick?
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, we've got we've got just uh we've got a little less than 10 minutes.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: So if we're gonna get to the next two questions, let's run through them.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're do you're doing really well, Zena.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, great.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, let me try to, I'll pick up the pace here.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so this is a great question.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: Why doesn't everybody get sick when they eat gluten or grains?
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, very complicated question and answer.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'll tell you, we don't know the full answer.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna tell you what we do, what we think we know.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: The ability to digest glutens varies from person to person.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: We think this is due in part to genetics, although I have my own debate with that.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's also due to your existing nutritional status.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you have nutrient deficiencies, you're not able to digest foods as well, not only grains, but in general, um digest and assimilate into the body.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, stress also plays a role.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: And if you have an altered gut microbial decomposition, so dysbiosis.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: So, for example, there are bacteria in the gastrointestinal tract.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: We call these gliadin-metabolizing bacteria, and they help break down gluten in your gastrointestinal tract.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: So, in theory, if you do lack that bacteria, you will have a more difficult time breaking down glutins.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: We see this with celiac patients, right?
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: They commonly have gut dysbiosis.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: We see this in autism.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: They come in many other autoimmune chronic conditions.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: Dr.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: Natasha just talked about this.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: We see gut dysbiosis in these conditions.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: So there's some type of imbalance in the gastrointestinal tract that's preventing complete digestion.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: Another interesting scientific finding is that one of the bacteria that help break down gluten is clostridium.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: And you've probably heard of clostridium difficil, right?
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: Or C.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: diff, right?
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: A prominent cause of infectious diarrhea in America.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if you consume grains, some studies have shown that the clostridium eats those grains.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: All right, it loves the grains.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: That means that clostridium can grow and outcompete other bacteria, creating a state of gut dysbiosis in your gastrointestinal tract.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: When you have dysbiosis, you have one that's grown out of chick.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's when we say that it becomes pathogenic or infections.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: So, so this is a whole nother podcast, but clostridium itself is not pathogenic.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's when it overgrows that you have a problem and it likes grain and it can overgrown.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: Your response, your individual response to gluten depends on many factors: your ability to digest it, the health of your GI system, whether or not you have the HLADQ genotype, your level of exposure to glyphosate, your level exposure to all other toxins, your stress level, your nutrient status, your EMF level of exposure, the amount of grains you have been exposed to throughout your life, and so forth.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: So as you can see, this is not a simple situation, right?
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot to tease out.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, there's a almost more than you can um, almost more than you can imagine, which you know, which drives, which drives scientists and clinicians crazy because scientists want regimented, you know, we we do this, we get this response every time.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: You do this, you get this response every time.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: And and what we're learning, seeing, I mean, and just just overall in the world is that it's it's way more relational and nuanced and and and um uh whatever, adaptive uh than than we ever thought.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: And it it it it it's not a machine.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a machine, it's a mystery.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a machine, and this is another topic where there's not this cookie cutter answer, right?
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: You have to be a detective to figure these things out.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: This is also why I've avoided talking about this publicly for two years, because it is so nuanced, right?
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: And you have to be able to have an audience like ours that's willing to listen to the nuance, listen to the whole story, right?
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: And again, I'm just touching on the highlights here, right?
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so let me let me go on with the next one.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: The next question is related to I eat gluten and I feel fine.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so some people can eat glutins and seem to be fine.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's great.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm so happy for you.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: I wish I was one of those people, right?
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I plan to be one day, okay.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: Now, there are some caveats here though, where people, it's another nuance.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: Some people eat glutens and they get this kind of high, this good feeling, okay?
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: So they logically conclude that they don't have a problem eating gluten, but sometimes that feel-good feeling could be a farce because there is a peptide, another peptide, which is just a short chain of amino acids that's found in in glutens, um, that it's called gluten.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry, gluteomorphin.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: Gluteomorphin.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: And what does that sound like?
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: Morphin.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like morphine, right?
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: So it is formed when digestive enzymes break down the gliadin.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: Gluteomorphin acts like an opiate.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: So it does bind, we think, to opiate receptors in the brain.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: It mimics the effects of drugs like heroin or morphine.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: So this may be why eating grains, you know, like some people will eat breads and stuff, like a croissant, and to help soothe them.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like if they're having some, you know, emotional problems, they feel depressed, some kind of emotional mental challenge, we'll tend to eat grains to soothe us.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I used to do this, but the problem is when the grains aren't properly digested, they're going to be leading to more inflammation, which could be contributing to that depression or emotional imbalance, um, could contribute to more pain.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: And it's and the grain at the same time that it's causing the inflammation is simply um, it's it's masked by this opiate-like action of gluten.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: So, in other words, the gluten's causing inflammation, it's also probably causing pain in some individuals, but we're masking it because it's acting like a morphine drug itself to mask the pain.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, we're we're about out of time, so let me let me just ask you one final uh get it one final idea here.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: So if a person, let's say like me, uh, I mean, I feel pretty good.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: I I think I'm fairly healthy, um wanted to just kind of do a personal whatever, a personal test.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh how long would you just would you stay away from grains?
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm talking about breakfast cereals, donuts, bagels, crackers, uh, uh uh breads.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, how long would I need to stay away from I mean and and just eat meat and vegetables?
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I gotta have my banana.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: You don't take my bananas away.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, how long would I have to do that in order to really get a sense of am I susceptible to this or not?
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's an excellent question.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: So let me start by saying if you go to a Western doctor, because this is commonly what I hear from people, like I went to my Western doctor and they tested me and they said I don't have gluten sensitivity.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: If you go to a Western doctor, they are probably going to test you for antibodies.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: So to, and that's that is not an accurate test to know if you have gluten sensitivity.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that's because when they test you for antibodies, it's usually alpha gliadin, or if you're lucky, they tested for a handful of different types of gluten proteins.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: But we now know there's over 1,000 different forms of gluten.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so they're at most testing a handful, but we know there's at least a thousand.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: And in fact, 40, 40 of the gluten forms that were recently discovered are actually more toxic than gliadin, right?
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_00: Which is the one in wheat.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a high degree of false negatives that are occurring when people are going to get tested.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: So no antibody test is going to be accurate enough to tell you.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: If you wanted to test for it at this moment, the most accurate test we have is a genetic test.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's a cheek swab test.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_00: You can do it from your home.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: And it tests, it analyzes your HLADQ genes.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: All right, that genotype.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: This is the best data we have so far.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to eat gluten, any kind of gluten, in order to take the test, which you would generally for an antibody test.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: You can just see if you have the certain allele type, and there's lots of associations now between the prevalence of this allele pattern and the occurrence of gluten sensitivity, non-ciliac gluten sensitivity as well.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: So there is a test you can take.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if you wanted to just go grain free, there's so many caveats to it.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: I would say you need to do it at least for 60 days.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_00: And when I say grain-free, I mean you've got to take every single source of grain out of your diet.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: There are no cheat days.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: You have to know, like you have to read all your labels.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: The easiest way to do it for food is you're gonna go, you're gonna consume only whole foods, and you're not gonna consume rice or corn, all right, because those contain glutens.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: And we could do another podcast on that.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: But um, but you so you're you're doing whole foods, you're trying to avoid all the processed foods because there's so many different um ways the grain derivatives are integrated into processed foods, it's really complicated to try to get them all out.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_00: You also want to make sure that if you're consuming any supplements, they don't have any grain derivatives in them.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: The vast majority of supplements contain some form of grain derivative.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and this comes from somebody.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: I used to formulate supplements.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: So the vast majority contain grain derivatives, you need to make sure you're not consuming that.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: If you're on medications, it is very common for medications to have fillers that are corn or rice derived, rice derivative.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so you, if you wanted to get, if you wanted to, if you're staying on your medication, which you need to do unless the doctor tells you you can get off of it, is you need you would go to a compounding pharmacy.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, they and the doctor would basically say that you, you know, you can't have any grains whatsoever, no corn, no rice, et cetera.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: And they would compound your medication so that it wouldn't have um those those grain derivatives in it.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_00: So you would do 60 days at a bare minimum with all sources of grains removed.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then and sometimes people see results quickly, you know, two, three days people are seeing results if they've removed all sources of grains, you know.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it takes a little bit longer, it takes a few weeks.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_00: But by the end of 60 days, if you if you have removed all grain sources, and most people need help with that, like I mean, because it's just so like you said, it's so ubiquitous.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_00: Most people need help with that.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_00: But oh, like makeup, too, makeup that women put on their face, perfumes, air fresheners, they're all no.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you can tell a lot if you have been able to successfully remove it and stayed off it for about 60 days.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, ideally, you would you would remove it and you would be consuming all organic um or beyond organic foods because of the glyphosate component.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you just take out the grains and you're still eating glyphosate, you are gonna have a difficult time healing anyway, because you're still inducing, you know, um leaky gut situation.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I always say take out both of them, you know, because if you're sick and you're trying to find an answer, do you really care if it was the grain or the glyphosate or it's the combination?
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: You just want to get healthy, right?
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then once you're healthy, then you can choose, okay, now I'm gonna add one back in to see.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I would just remove both of them up front for at least 60 days.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_01: Right, great.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think that's a good, that's a good place to stop.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh just kind of a self, a self-assessment, uh, a self-assessment regimen.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because a lot of us, you know, we we we don't want to go to a doctor, maybe we don't want to, you know, involve in a test, that sort of thing.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, uh we're you and I are are all about self-help, self, you know, uh, you know, self-healing, and and uh what you can do yourself.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's a great, a great place to end there.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: And we are gonna have a part two.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: Stay tuned.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_01: We're uh we're not gonna do them back to back, but we are gonna have a part two to this one, um uh drilling down a little bit deeper into the gluten issue.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_01: So uh thank you everybody for joining us on this podcast of Beyond Labels.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we're signing off and looking forward to seeing you next week on Beyond Labels.