Latest / Thinking Christian: Bible, Theology, and Culture / Unmuted: From Silence to Testimony (Nick Sash)

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Unmuted: From Silence to Testimony (Nick Sash) · Thinking Christian: Bible, Theology, and Culture

0:01
Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, welcome to this episode of Thinking Christian. I'm
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Speaker 1: doctor James Spencer and I'm joined today by Nick sash.
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Speaker 1: Nick and I are actually friends from high school. But
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Speaker 1: he's also the host of the Foundational Father's podcast. You
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Speaker 1: can catch that on podcast platforms, YouTube, that kind of place,
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Speaker 1: at those kind of places. He's also written a new
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Speaker 1: book called Unmuted From Silence to Testimony, and he has
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Speaker 1: a previous book out and I'll let you remind me
0:27
Speaker 1: of that title, Nick, So I don't get it wrong
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Speaker 1: on Harmony Lane, found on Harmony Lane and a lot
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Speaker 1: of these. You know, you've got the Harmony Lane, You've
0:35
Speaker 1: got the Unmuted. These are related to your kind of
0:38
Speaker 1: passion for music.
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Speaker 2: Right, yes, to my personal testimony.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, very cool.
0:43
Speaker 1: Well, why don't you tell us a little bit about
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Speaker 1: just your background, I mean, how did you how did
0:48
Speaker 1: you get into doing the podcast, what was your passion
0:52
Speaker 1: around the podcast? And then we'll jump over into Unmuted
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Speaker 1: and talk about it for a bit.
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Speaker 2: Absolutely I can do that. So, I've been a musician
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Speaker 2: for I'm scaming to say this, but about forty years now,
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Speaker 2: and so I've been kind of played in different bands
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Speaker 2: throughout my life and had multiple opportunities to also lead
1:17
Speaker 2: from stage and worship as well as where I kind
1:20
Speaker 2: of been sitting in the last ten twelve years is
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Speaker 2: in the background with the rhythm section playing based And
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Speaker 2: so when that kind of all transpired, I was not
1:32
Speaker 2: living the life that everybody thought I was living. I
1:36
Speaker 2: was very much living two lives. I was one person
1:41
Speaker 2: at home with my family, and I was one person
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Speaker 2: when I was working in a way from everybody, and
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Speaker 2: that transferred over into church, that transferred over into every
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Speaker 2: aspect of most of my friends groups. And so God
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Speaker 2: got a hold of me about nine years ago now
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Speaker 2: and really mix things up for me and gave me
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Speaker 2: the ultimatum like You've got to choose which life you
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Speaker 2: want to live. And so that affected my marriage and
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Speaker 2: my kids, and my friends groups say, and my relationships
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Speaker 2: at church. But nine years later it was a good
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Speaker 2: moves that God kind of put in front of me,
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Speaker 2: and I'm grateful to say that I chose his path
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Speaker 2: instead of my own. And that's kind of where found
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Speaker 2: on Harmony Lane came about. It's kind of that story.
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Speaker 2: And then that's also kind of where Unmuted kind of
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Speaker 2: routed from there too.
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Speaker 3: So very cool. How many kids you have, Nick.
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Speaker 2: I have three, sorry, twenty three, twenty one, and seventeen.
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Speaker 3: Okay, you're a little ahead of me.
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Speaker 1: I've got a twenty year old just turned twenty, and
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Speaker 1: then to sixteen year olds, and then of course we
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Speaker 1: adopted a four year old here recently, so we're I'm
3:01
Speaker 1: going to be grandpa dad eventually. But well, talk a
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Speaker 1: little bit about Unmuted. You know you mentioned this it
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Speaker 1: came about through this sort of transition point in your life.
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Speaker 3: But you know, I mean we knew each other in
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Speaker 3: high school.
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Speaker 1: I was not following the Lord at that point either,
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Speaker 1: and I hit my big transition point, that big tipping
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Speaker 1: point that you're kind of talking about, my sophomore year
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Speaker 1: in college and had sort of this real conversion experience
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Speaker 1: where I started trying to figure out what it looked
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Speaker 1: like to follow the Lord. And so it's kind of
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Speaker 1: interesting you had a similar sort of path, maybe even
3:40
Speaker 1: a little later in life. But just talk talk through that,
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Speaker 1: tell us the story and and kind of tell us
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Speaker 1: how it connects to Unmuted.
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Speaker 2: So, as a as a kid in high school, I
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Speaker 2: grew up in a Christian home. My parents were one
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Speaker 2: of those people that if the janitor was in the
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Speaker 2: sanctuary washed in the windows, we were in the front
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Speaker 2: piew watching it happen. So I grew up with all
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Speaker 2: these different types of principles, uh you know, And I
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Speaker 2: would say as a as a kid and as a
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Speaker 2: young adult, like still living at home, I lived out
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Speaker 2: those principles quite well. But then I went off to
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Speaker 2: college and you know, parents are gone. I'm thinking, oh,
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Speaker 2: you know, I'm seventeen now gonna be eighteens tune. I'm
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Speaker 2: gonna start, you know, finding out what this world's all about.
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Speaker 2: That I got to miss the last seventeen years of
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Speaker 2: my life. And so when I did that, you know,
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Speaker 2: you you make decisions that I now regret. But you
4:42
Speaker 2: in the moment, you're trying to fit in. You're trying
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Speaker 2: to find your calling in life, your walk, and a
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Speaker 2: lot of times we don't fully understand in the moment
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Speaker 2: the shame and the guilt and the pain that you
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Speaker 2: leave to those around you from the decisions that you make.
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Speaker 2: And really unmuted is the story of like, you know,
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Speaker 2: basically I was told, you know, just that I'm a guy,
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Speaker 2: keep my emotions in check. You know, you don't really
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Speaker 2: put anything out there. You're you're you're the strong one.
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Speaker 2: You're not supposed to to be an emotional mess, right,
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Speaker 2: And so when God got a hold of me, he
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Speaker 2: flipped the table on that one. I became an emotional mess.
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Speaker 2: I was definitely the one that talked more in my
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Speaker 2: marriage and my wife didn't know what to do with that.
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Speaker 2: And God really got a hold of me and said,
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Speaker 2: you know what, you might have been in the background,
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Speaker 2: playing bass and being a part of the rhythm section
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Speaker 2: for so long, that's not where God has called me
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Speaker 2: to me. Even though I can, I can live and
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Speaker 2: breathe in that background. Am I thriving? And so really,
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Speaker 2: what Unmuted is all about is how to thrive and
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Speaker 2: live out God's purpose for your life, even if you
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Speaker 2: are one of those people who feels like you're only
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Speaker 2: worth it because you're living in the background, unseen, unheard,
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Speaker 2: not hurting anyone maybe, but in turn, you will hurt
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Speaker 2: yourself and then that will turn hurt everybody that's connected
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Speaker 2: to you. Really, that's where this what kind of sprouted from.
6:28
Speaker 2: And it's been, oh a few years in the making,
6:32
Speaker 2: and I'm also finishing up a novel that kind of
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Speaker 2: correlates with this, So this is more of like a
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Speaker 2: non fiction work with some devotional type questions and asking
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Speaker 2: you like, so, where how's your story? What's your story like?
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Speaker 2: Is it in the background or are you living it out?
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Speaker 2: And that walks along with this. So it's a quick reed,
6:56
Speaker 2: but I really feel like it's the nuts and bolts
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Speaker 2: of what things are to come from my literary works
7:04
Speaker 2: that will be out there soon, as well as things
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Speaker 2: that come in people's lives, especially in the day and
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Speaker 2: age that we live in. It's kind of stand up
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Speaker 2: and stand out for why we believe what we believe.
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Speaker 1: See you feel like you know just over time you
7:20
Speaker 1: sort of took a back seat when God was really
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Speaker 1: prompting you to be front and center. Is that part
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Speaker 1: of what kind of prompted you to start doing the podcasting,
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Speaker 1: obviously writing the books those kind of things, so that
7:32
Speaker 1: you have this sort of growing platform where you can.
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Speaker 3: Be in the foreground.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. It was kind of so I beca't
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Speaker 2: I'm known as the mute bass player to some people.
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Speaker 2: It was all It was given to me as a
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Speaker 2: name from a guitar player of mine when I played
7:53
Speaker 2: in Cassel and Drive in Paulagi era and it was
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Speaker 2: my turn to speak, and he said, hold on, I
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Speaker 2: speak for my bass player. And so it kind of stuck.
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Speaker 2: And that's I kind of like stuck into that whole
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Speaker 2: persona of like I don't need to stand, I don't
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Speaker 2: need somebody else will do the work for me. I
8:14
Speaker 2: don't need to do that work. And so it was
8:17
Speaker 2: kind of funny because about oh, six years ago, a
8:21
Speaker 2: friend of mine said, hey, you play bass. I would
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Speaker 2: love to learn a lot of the licks that you
8:28
Speaker 2: throw on these worship tunes that we do at church.
8:31
Speaker 2: And I'm like, yeah, there's YouTube for that, and he goes, well,
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Speaker 2: you've got a studio, why not you, you know, Like
8:39
Speaker 2: so I threw out there and you can catch that
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Speaker 2: on YouTube. Still it's the mute bass player. And I
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Speaker 2: have like worship storial videos of all different types of
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Speaker 2: worship songs on there. You playing bass from my from
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Speaker 2: my music room, just kind of you know, trying to
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Speaker 2: give back to the people next generation and on how
9:01
Speaker 2: I do what I do. But then that kind of sprouted,
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Speaker 2: like a friend of mine came up and said, hey,
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Speaker 2: I really want to you know, talk about you know
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Speaker 2: the meat of the Bible, you know, God says that,
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Speaker 2: you know, he's not going to give us meat because
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Speaker 2: we haven't handled the milk yet, right, we're still infants
9:20
Speaker 2: in our in our phase of walking with Christ. And
9:23
Speaker 2: so he was like, I want I want solid food,
9:27
Speaker 2: so I want to be able to handle solid food.
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Speaker 2: So let's talk about it. And I said, okay, well,
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Speaker 2: what do you think about a podcast? And He's like, yes, definitely,
9:37
Speaker 2: and so we kind of like just out of that,
9:39
Speaker 2: we kind of sat around talked about what we would
9:42
Speaker 2: like it to look like, where we'd like it to go.
9:46
Speaker 2: And that was over a year ago now, and it's
9:49
Speaker 2: been crazy just what God has done through that ministry
9:54
Speaker 2: and what ministries have sprouted out of it. We've just
9:56
Speaker 2: actually released this Saturday will be but we just taped
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Speaker 2: our first episode of Everyday Disciple. It's a series inside
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Speaker 2: the Foundational Father's podcast. But it's not me. It's not
10:09
Speaker 2: me on stage, it's not me in the camera. I
10:12
Speaker 2: just doing the editing and you know, helping support this
10:16
Speaker 2: new house seth Forrest, who's going to just handle that
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Speaker 2: side of things. It's he's not a father, he's younger,
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Speaker 2: and so I'm a father and I'm older, and there's
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Speaker 2: people out there who you know, need to be able
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Speaker 2: to handle the solid food well too, that aren't experiencing
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Speaker 2: parenthood yet or maybe they're in the midst of still
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Speaker 2: trying to decide what that looks like in their future.
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Speaker 2: So I think that this is a great move for
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Speaker 2: the Foundational Father's Podcast to kind of come alongside a
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Speaker 2: guy that really wants to do that for the basically
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Speaker 2: the you know, eighteen to forty year olds that are
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Speaker 2: not in the same boat that myself, for my co
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Speaker 2: host Martness is in. So that's been that's been a
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Speaker 2: good tool. It's also been a humbling tool because you know,
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Speaker 2: you realize just how old you are and how out
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Speaker 2: of or something. But then then then you're like, but
11:19
Speaker 2: I still know how to do this better, okay.
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Speaker 1: But yeah, so yeah, I got some critiques from my
11:28
Speaker 1: son on our YouTube thumbnails and I was like, man,
11:31
Speaker 1: I thought those looked pretty good. But he's like, no,
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Speaker 1: they they probably do look good to you, dad. So
11:38
Speaker 1: I was like, I get. I gave him the vintage
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Speaker 1: version evidently, so no, I totally get that. It's a
11:44
Speaker 1: different it's a different space to be in, it's a
11:46
Speaker 1: different world to occupy, and yeah, it's it's a necessary thing,
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Speaker 1: I think today to sort of get voices out there.
11:56
Speaker 1: I don't know you see this, but I mean, my
11:59
Speaker 1: big concern with podcasting is just there's so much of
12:05
Speaker 1: it out there. It's like I'm starting to look at
12:07
Speaker 1: what's next. You know, how do you how do you
12:12
Speaker 1: inform the church? How do you build the body of
12:14
Speaker 1: Christ through a medium like this? But what's that next iteration?
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Speaker 1: Video seems to be a big part of it. I'm
12:21
Speaker 1: not sure how Ai'll fit in there, but I'm sure
12:23
Speaker 1: it will at some point.
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Speaker 3: But it's it.
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Speaker 1: I don't know where you guys, you know what your
12:29
Speaker 1: audience is. But you know, I feel pretty good in
12:33
Speaker 1: my niche and uh, but I know that there's a
12:36
Speaker 1: lot more out there that we could potentially do.
12:39
Speaker 2: So I think the niche for us is ever changing.
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Speaker 2: It might have started out as a father of that
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Speaker 2: joke kind of podcast where we have fun and just
12:53
Speaker 2: kind of also be disciples to one another as well
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Speaker 2: as to unity that we get to come alongside each
13:04
Speaker 2: week as we do these different topics like this week
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Speaker 2: we're doing on how to study the Bible with a
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Speaker 2: pastor a friend of mine. And so this is something
13:17
Speaker 2: that we've always kind of really wanted to do, but
13:18
Speaker 2: we didn't know how to really go in there. Because
13:21
Speaker 2: of that, we wanted to be we wanted to be
13:23
Speaker 2: relevant and also be you know, something that's not saying
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Speaker 2: we're gonna put these Bible principles aside because we want
13:33
Speaker 2: to be relevant. I was actually talking to my co
13:37
Speaker 2: host about something I had read and like the we
13:42
Speaker 2: we are. We have a foundation that we have kind
13:44
Speaker 2: of like started ourselves. It's called the Intentionally Uncommon Initiative,
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Speaker 2: and you can find that on the Intentionally Uncommon Initiative
13:51
Speaker 2: dot com. It's an ever growing one and it's also
13:54
Speaker 2: developed by me. So be kind, all right, but we're
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Speaker 2: kind of taking this uncommon thing uh theme that's kind
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Speaker 2: of out. That's kind of the next wave. I think
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Speaker 2: that's kind of really hit our nation anyway, like how
14:11
Speaker 2: to live uncommon, how to be uncommon man, how to
14:14
Speaker 2: do uncommon things. But it was a talking point that
14:18
Speaker 2: I was listening to the other day and it said
14:22
Speaker 2: how to be ordinary and why that's important? And I
14:26
Speaker 2: was like, Okay, that's all I gotta Why would I
14:31
Speaker 2: want to be ordinary? Right?
14:32
Speaker 3: To be ordinary?
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Speaker 2: Right? And then it was like how to live out
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Speaker 2: your ordinary faith like it's that is still true. Like
14:41
Speaker 2: we can throw a bunch of bells and whistles on
14:43
Speaker 2: our podcast or in our music at church, or in
14:47
Speaker 2: our in our preaching from the pulpit, or whatever it
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Speaker 2: might be, but if we're not giving the ordinary word
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Speaker 2: of God. The the in the beginning was the word.
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Speaker 2: The word was with God. The word was God. You know,
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Speaker 2: it's the light that pierces the darkness. If we don't
15:04
Speaker 2: do those things, then we are missing what God originally intended.
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Speaker 2: He for thousands of years, the Bible has stood right.
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Speaker 2: It hasn't changed, It hasn't needed to change. The Word
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Speaker 2: is the same yesterday, today and forever. And I think
15:19
Speaker 2: a lot of times we can just miss the market
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Speaker 2: by trying to put all these cool little bells and
15:25
Speaker 2: whistles on top of everything that we're doing, just so
15:28
Speaker 2: that we can get a bigger audience. But I really
15:31
Speaker 2: feel like God is calling us to an ordinary faith
15:35
Speaker 2: with him. One that was back when the apostle Paul
15:39
Speaker 2: John the Baptist. They had an ordinary faith in Jesus.
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Speaker 2: They knew what he could do, not only because they
15:44
Speaker 2: could see it firsthand, but they heard about it from
15:48
Speaker 2: other people in their walk of life, they had been
15:51
Speaker 2: touched by him, so why not live out ordinary faith
15:55
Speaker 2: to do the same thing. And so that's been a
15:57
Speaker 2: real like hashed of mine and it's actually what's sprouting
16:03
Speaker 2: me to write a little bit more than what I have.
16:07
Speaker 2: And one one who I guess likes to write lyrics
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Speaker 2: and do those type of things. I guess, yeah, kind
16:13
Speaker 2: of gradually just says, hey, we can do more without music.
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Speaker 1: It's uh, it's interesting. I mean the longer I do this,
16:24
Speaker 1: you know, teaching, podcasting, writing all those kind of things.
16:29
Speaker 1: I don't know whether you've ever read it, but Harry
16:31
Speaker 1: Blameiers wrote a book called The Christian Mind, and he
16:34
Speaker 1: was a student to C. S. Lewis, and his argument
16:36
Speaker 1: was that we really don't have any spaces where we
16:40
Speaker 1: can have strong Christian discourse because we've lost the Christian mind.
16:44
Speaker 1: We're constantly giving ourselves over to the logics of the world,
16:50
Speaker 1: so that the only time our faith comes into it
16:52
Speaker 1: is if there's a moral issue, you know, some sort
16:55
Speaker 1: of like personal moral issue that we want to talk through.
16:58
Speaker 1: And I also go back to the book because I
17:00
Speaker 1: think it's just such a crucial point. The idea that
17:04
Speaker 1: the way we think about the world, looking with eyes
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Speaker 1: that see, listening with ears that here should be our
17:09
Speaker 1: ordinary mode of existence. Our senses are supposed to be
17:11
Speaker 1: honed so that that becomes the new normal, and we're
17:15
Speaker 1: just every day walking through that. But I think the
17:19
Speaker 1: more I do this stuff, the more I teach, the
17:21
Speaker 1: more a podcast, the more I write, the more I
17:25
Speaker 1: tend to just keep going back to this is about
17:28
Speaker 1: small steps of obedience daily. It's always about small steps
17:32
Speaker 1: of obedience daily, because when we take a small step
17:35
Speaker 1: of obedience, what ends up happening to us is we
17:38
Speaker 1: open ourselves up to what God is going to do.
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Speaker 1: When we're not taking those small steps of obedience, when
17:44
Speaker 1: we're not letting God take care of the things that
17:46
Speaker 1: God can take care of, we're not really seeing all
17:51
Speaker 1: the discipleship could allow us to see.
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Speaker 3: We're not really.
17:56
Speaker 1: Getting that sort of we serve a God who is
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Speaker 1: abundantly or capable of doing abundantly more than we could
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Speaker 1: ever ask or think. When we don't obey, when we're
18:04
Speaker 1: not walking faithfully, we're not seeing that abundance. We're just
18:08
Speaker 1: seeing sort of what we can do, and that's often
18:12
Speaker 1: not trivial, right, but when you compare it to what
18:16
Speaker 1: God could do, it tends to be. And so yeah,
18:20
Speaker 1: I just think it keeps coming back down to, Look,
18:23
Speaker 1: we've just got an everyday sort of faith, and we
18:25
Speaker 1: need to be living out We've got what is odd
18:30
Speaker 1: needs to become ordinary, and our faith needs to become
18:34
Speaker 1: that new normal.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, and I think that's really what unmuted kind
18:40
Speaker 2: of helps you kind of define your story. So you know,
18:45
Speaker 2: my story isn't you know, really different from anyone else's
18:50
Speaker 2: out there. I'm not the only one who went through
18:53
Speaker 2: the struggles that I went through, and I'm not the
18:55
Speaker 2: only one going through the struggles that I currently am
18:58
Speaker 2: going through, whether it be health or uh you know,
19:01
Speaker 2: just different daily things that we all handle. It's about
19:05
Speaker 2: how to take those stories, those victories. Because Jesus is
19:12
Speaker 2: already won the battle for you, already, you know, made
19:16
Speaker 2: his victory in Heaven for you, So how to turn
19:20
Speaker 2: that into a testimony. So taking what you can do
19:24
Speaker 2: every day, whether it's like well, for instance, uh, my
19:29
Speaker 2: car we were we went to a family reunion on
19:33
Speaker 2: Saturday down about an hour from where I live, and
19:37
Speaker 2: so I took my wife's car because let's just be honest,
19:40
Speaker 2: first runs better than my notes. But uh, you know,
19:44
Speaker 2: I got in the car. I assumed everything was in
19:47
Speaker 2: that car that I needed for the day. I loaded
19:50
Speaker 2: it all up, and we went down to my aunt's
19:54
Speaker 2: house and got a you know, we had a great
19:57
Speaker 2: time ate, a lot of food, probably more, and I
20:00
Speaker 2: should have uh sorry, Harvey, but uh, you know, like
20:05
Speaker 2: we had fun, you had fellowship, did all the things
20:09
Speaker 2: that uh you do at a family reunion. And then
20:11
Speaker 2: we got in the car and I went to turn
20:13
Speaker 2: on the car and it didn't didn't turn off. It
20:16
Speaker 2: was batter Who's dead, right? So I popped the hood
20:21
Speaker 2: and I'm going in the back to drab the jumper tables.
20:26
Speaker 2: They're not in the car. Why are they not in
20:28
Speaker 2: the car? I don't know. It's my wife's car, So
20:32
Speaker 2: you know what it was one naturally do this, Okay,
20:36
Speaker 2: So where did you put the dumper tables? Because I
20:38
Speaker 2: put them in the car. You know, you got this thing.
20:41
Speaker 2: So I'm instantly frustrated about the whole process of doing So.
20:46
Speaker 2: We're supposed to be at a gathering for church in
20:49
Speaker 2: about an hour and a half from that time, and
20:52
Speaker 2: so I'm like okay, and it's about an hour drive,
20:54
Speaker 2: so like, uh, what are we gonna do? So my
20:58
Speaker 2: uncle found some jumper tables. Also, I don't know why
21:01
Speaker 2: he didn't have jumper tables, but he didn't. So he
21:06
Speaker 2: found some jumper tables. We got the car jumped, and
21:08
Speaker 2: then I'm like, okay, we're not shutting this thing off
21:10
Speaker 2: until get back to town and I'll go get a
21:14
Speaker 2: battery put in. You know, O'Reilly's AutoZone. They put it
21:17
Speaker 2: all in for you, right, well, it gets up AutoZone
21:21
Speaker 2: and putting, you know, taking the battery going in there,
21:26
Speaker 2: and say, hey, can you put this in for me?
21:28
Speaker 2: I gotta be somewhere in like a half hour, and
21:30
Speaker 2: they're like sure, and then they hold on a second.
21:33
Speaker 2: It says that your battery needs a professional install and
21:36
Speaker 2: I'm like a professional install. I don't think I know
21:40
Speaker 2: those two words go together, but you know. And so
21:44
Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, at four o'clock on a Saturday around
21:48
Speaker 2: where I live, no way's open, right right, So I'm
21:52
Speaker 2: just sitting here going okay. So I called the place
21:54
Speaker 2: where I was going. I'm like, hey, so you have
21:58
Speaker 2: tools in your courage by any chance, I know, it's
22:01
Speaker 2: a funny question, but can you help me, jamesbo battery
22:05
Speaker 2: and so he's like sure, sure, and so went out
22:09
Speaker 2: there and it got changed. But the whole time, you know, like,
22:13
Speaker 2: there's a lot the other could have been avoided. If
22:14
Speaker 2: the right tools, the right things were in my car,
22:19
Speaker 2: I would have been able to jump my car quicker.
22:21
Speaker 2: I would have been able to get back to town
22:23
Speaker 2: quicker to get things maybe even taken care of before
22:26
Speaker 2: closing time. Of a lot of those places, we weren't prepared.
22:31
Speaker 2: So the reason I bring all that up is just
22:34
Speaker 2: that there's a lot of times in life that we
22:37
Speaker 2: feel like we have everything together, that we don't need
22:41
Speaker 2: any help from anyone else, and that whatever whatever comes
22:46
Speaker 2: our way we got because we're men, we can handle it.
22:50
Speaker 2: And then you then you have a situation like that
22:53
Speaker 2: that you're like, oh, I may have handled it, but
22:57
Speaker 2: I could have handled it better if I had been
22:58
Speaker 2: given the tools that God is providing in my life
23:03
Speaker 2: for me to do, and maybe the outcome would have
23:06
Speaker 2: been better. Did I learn something from that situation? Yes,
23:10
Speaker 2: always keep prepared jumper tables in your but especially if
23:15
Speaker 2: you've got the battery pack, make sure it's charged. That's
23:18
Speaker 2: the other thing, because that happened to me a couple
23:21
Speaker 2: of times. I have a battery pack. I could just
23:23
Speaker 2: jump it out, it's not okay, so need something to
23:27
Speaker 2: charge it first. So but like it's the same way
23:29
Speaker 2: with God, like he is ready and willing and able
23:34
Speaker 2: to give us all the support that we need through
23:37
Speaker 2: His Holy Spirit. But if we're not equipped with God's work,
23:42
Speaker 2: you know, like it says in the Bible, thy word
23:45
Speaker 2: have I hid in my heart so that I won't
23:48
Speaker 2: sin against me? Like, you know, like it's it's important.
23:52
Speaker 2: God's word is so important in the recovery group that
23:54
Speaker 2: I run on a weekly basis at our church. I
23:59
Speaker 2: stress to all lead groups out there, like, so did
24:02
Speaker 2: you memorize any of those verses on the pages? I
24:04
Speaker 2: mean there were seven days of pages, seven verses. You
24:08
Speaker 2: should know seven more verses every week, Like, and I
24:12
Speaker 2: would go around like, okay, give me one or two,
24:15
Speaker 2: and some people would go, oh, don't I don't memorize
24:17
Speaker 2: any And then I get like maybe one or two,
24:20
Speaker 2: and I'm like, realize that you're going around. There's a
24:24
Speaker 2: band that I grew up listening to a lot of
24:28
Speaker 2: Their name is Bride I had them on my show
24:31
Speaker 2: a few weeks back. They wrote this song off their
24:35
Speaker 2: Kinetic Faith album back in the nineties. Yes I'm old,
24:38
Speaker 2: but uh it's called It's called hired gun. And in
24:44
Speaker 2: light of what had happened over the last few weeks
24:47
Speaker 2: with the America just going just completely divided on an
24:53
Speaker 2: issue that shouldn't have been it's it's kind of tongue
24:59
Speaker 2: in cheek but herd to hear, but it actually is
25:01
Speaker 2: a really good example of what I consider the Holy
25:04
Speaker 2: Spirit inside us to be. When Jesus says, I'm gonna
25:09
Speaker 2: come into your life and I'm gonna clean you, and
25:12
Speaker 2: I'm gonna make you strong. I'm gonna be able to
25:14
Speaker 2: give you power when you need it, You're like the gun, okay,
25:19
Speaker 2: And the Holy Spirit is sitting there ready to pull
25:24
Speaker 2: the trigger at any time to be able to fend
25:28
Speaker 2: off any of the devil's toils that is throwing at us.
25:33
Speaker 2: And God's word is the scripture, and the Scripture are
25:38
Speaker 2: those bullets. If we don't have those bullets in our gun,
25:44
Speaker 2: the Holy Spirit is useless against a lot of those
25:47
Speaker 2: toils that the devil throws our way. And so and
25:53
Speaker 2: that actually was an analogy given to me for all
25:56
Speaker 2: this craziness that I've happened. So it was kind of
25:59
Speaker 2: a God moment me. It was like, Okay, God, I
26:01
Speaker 2: see what you're saying, you know, and it's it is
26:07
Speaker 2: very easy to now relate to a lot of people
26:11
Speaker 2: like you can go you know a lot of everything
26:14
Speaker 2: that had happened, this is this is a way that
26:16
Speaker 2: you can look at how God's word is in your
26:18
Speaker 2: life so important and why the man that was a
26:22
Speaker 2: martyred for his faith was so easy and happy the
26:26
Speaker 2: whole time because he had God's word hid in his
26:28
Speaker 2: heart so that he wouldn't send against him no matter
26:30
Speaker 2: what situation. And man, I can't wait till I have
26:35
Speaker 2: that kind of faith and those kind of bullets to
26:38
Speaker 2: be able to fend off anything that the devil may
26:42
Speaker 2: throw at me. Yeah.
26:44
Speaker 1: So me, as you were telling that story, I was
26:47
Speaker 1: actually thinking you were going to go a completely different way,
26:50
Speaker 1: which is.
26:52
Speaker 3: Which is kind of funny.
26:53
Speaker 1: I mean, I appreciate the the idea of preparation. I
26:56
Speaker 1: think that makes sense to me, and it's it's different
26:59
Speaker 1: than what I was thinking you were going to go.
27:00
Speaker 1: So I find that when I'm in those kind of situations.
27:06
Speaker 1: There are these moments when there's nothing I could have
27:09
Speaker 1: prepared for. Right, our air conditioner just broke. Well, I'm
27:16
Speaker 1: not I have no idea what I'm doing. Like, there's
27:20
Speaker 1: not a hammer or screw driver you could hand me
27:22
Speaker 1: that's going to help me fix an air conditioner.
27:24
Speaker 3: I have no clue.
27:25
Speaker 1: And so you just, you know, we're like, Okay, we're
27:28
Speaker 1: going to be without air conditioning for a couple of days.
27:29
Speaker 1: We'll get the HVAC guys in, we'll do the whole thing,
27:32
Speaker 1: you know whatever. And what I found was that because
27:37
Speaker 1: I was completely helpless in the moment, just totally have
27:42
Speaker 1: no capacity to fix the issue, that what I had to.
27:46
Speaker 3: Do was reorient my aims, right, like.
27:51
Speaker 1: Really think it through and say, in this moment, I'm
27:56
Speaker 1: not doing what I want to do.
27:58
Speaker 3: I'm not spending my money what I want to say
28:00
Speaker 3: spend it on.
28:01
Speaker 1: Right, this seems like such a waste of time and
28:04
Speaker 1: energy and effort over something that should just work. And
28:08
Speaker 1: yet you sort of take a step back and you go,
28:12
Speaker 1: what's the goal here?
28:14
Speaker 2: Right?
28:14
Speaker 3: The goal is.
28:17
Speaker 1: Acting so that only God gets the glory in every
28:20
Speaker 1: moment of every situation. And so I was tweaked about it,
28:24
Speaker 1: like I was frustrated. But at the same time, I'm
28:27
Speaker 1: sort of sitting back going in this moment where I
28:30
Speaker 1: have no other alternative. I can only really do this.
28:33
Speaker 1: I have to depend on other people, you know, if
28:36
Speaker 1: we want to get air conditioning, which you know we're
28:38
Speaker 1: down there Saint Louis. We hits hot, right, it's still hot.
28:43
Speaker 1: We're recording this at like the end of September, early October.
28:46
Speaker 1: It's still hot. It's ridiculous. But I just had to
28:51
Speaker 1: sort of let things go. And I think the story
28:54
Speaker 1: you were telling, you know, where you have the hour
28:56
Speaker 1: and a half to get back to a church event.
28:58
Speaker 1: I find that those and I don't mean this in
29:02
Speaker 1: a bad way, but those arbitrary schedules often get in
29:07
Speaker 1: the way of my witness. Yeah, because I'm so obsessed
29:11
Speaker 1: with getting there on time. I'm so like, hey, the
29:15
Speaker 1: schedule is this, and so we need to stay on schedule.
29:18
Speaker 1: I think there's something appropriate about that, But then when
29:21
Speaker 1: it skews and there's problems, I sometimes I realize, like
29:25
Speaker 1: I'm booking myself too tight. So I don't know. That
29:29
Speaker 1: was just a different riff on some of what you
29:31
Speaker 1: said there.
29:33
Speaker 2: I like both angles and both have very good meaning.
29:36
Speaker 2: Like prioritizing what you're doing in life is important, you know. Yeah,
29:42
Speaker 2: the main thing is, you know, what was the ultimate
29:46
Speaker 2: commandment that God gave? Right, There's there's like a lot
29:48
Speaker 2: of commandments that he kind of put down on the Bible.
29:52
Speaker 2: I mean, I think Moses carried ten down because when
29:56
Speaker 2: he was picking up the tablets, they must have broken
30:00
Speaker 2: if you might have fallen off. Maybe there was fifteen
30:03
Speaker 2: or twenty. I don't know. Maybe he just wasn't wrong
30:05
Speaker 2: enough carry more than that. But like, I mean, those
30:08
Speaker 2: ten carry a lot of weight, right, but the one
30:12
Speaker 2: of the one that I think kind of supersedes all
30:14
Speaker 2: of them. We were talking about this at church last night.
30:17
Speaker 2: Worship practice is that love the Lord, your God and
30:21
Speaker 2: what serve him only? Like, if if that is what
30:26
Speaker 2: you're doing, then you're doing it right. But a lot
30:28
Speaker 2: of times we get that wrong because everything else under
30:32
Speaker 2: the sun of God that we put our faith and
30:36
Speaker 2: our trust and our focus and our schedules in, we're
30:39
Speaker 2: not serving him only in that. A lot of times, yeah,
30:43
Speaker 2: we can even like have church can even be one
30:46
Speaker 2: of those things that we put above God, you know,
30:51
Speaker 2: and our wives, we love them right, but and we
30:55
Speaker 2: want to put them up there. But if we don't
30:57
Speaker 2: put God above her, we're not loving her right First,
31:00
Speaker 2: Christians Really Stressed is about what that looks like. And
31:06
Speaker 2: it's a great book to read right now, we're going
31:08
Speaker 2: over it in church, and it's a it's a fun
31:11
Speaker 2: one to to dabble in, and it's also a very
31:15
Speaker 2: opening one, like you really go, oh, wait a minute,
31:19
Speaker 2: do I do that? You know, wait a minute, am
31:22
Speaker 2: I acting that way? Wow? Okay, God says I don't
31:25
Speaker 2: even deserve the Kingdom of Heaven this way. So a
31:30
Speaker 2: lot of that can be done by just prioritizing our time.
31:34
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, yeah, Augustine, that sort of order of loves
31:40
Speaker 1: has been you know, put out there in the news.
31:44
Speaker 2: JD.
31:44
Speaker 1: Van's references that referenced it a couple of times, and
31:47
Speaker 1: you know, so it became part of the sort of
31:49
Speaker 1: public conversation there for a minute at least. And one
31:52
Speaker 1: of the things I love about the way Augustin describes
31:55
Speaker 1: the order of love. He describes it almost like a river.
31:59
Speaker 1: And if your love for God is the current of
32:02
Speaker 1: the river, anything you throw into the river is going
32:04
Speaker 1: to be drawn along by the current. But the whole
32:08
Speaker 1: idea is that it's God's love, is not you know,
32:12
Speaker 1: the top priority and then once you get that done,
32:14
Speaker 1: you can move to the second on the priority list.
32:16
Speaker 1: I think that's the wrong picture for us. What it
32:19
Speaker 1: is is it's an immersive experience. And so the love
32:23
Speaker 1: of God is something that we immerse other things into
32:27
Speaker 1: so that you know, just like you couldn't put anything
32:29
Speaker 1: underwater without it being wet.
32:32
Speaker 3: Right now, all.
32:34
Speaker 1: Your other loves are immersed within this love of God
32:37
Speaker 1: and they change they by coming in contact with and
32:40
Speaker 1: being shaped by that.
32:42
Speaker 3: Love for God.
32:43
Speaker 1: Now our other loves are less distorted, they are less deformed.
32:48
Speaker 1: They are now shaped into something that is christ Like,
32:51
Speaker 1: and they're they're rightly directed. And so I've always loved
32:56
Speaker 1: that picture that Augustine gives. I think it's just a
32:58
Speaker 1: really vivid way of thinking about it, and it is
33:01
Speaker 1: a little different than a lot of times we talk
33:03
Speaker 1: about it now, you know, we we do tend to
33:05
Speaker 1: talk about priorities or balance or you know, all those
33:08
Speaker 1: kind of pieces. But the reality is God isn't calling
33:12
Speaker 1: us to balance. He's calling us to radical unbalance, a
33:17
Speaker 1: total love for Him and only service to him, allows
33:21
Speaker 1: us then to love everyone else. He's not asking for
33:24
Speaker 1: part of our time. You know, hey, keep me in
33:26
Speaker 1: mind whenever you're doing stuff, right, It's a more radical
33:29
Speaker 1: obedience than that. So just yeah, sort of resonating with
33:34
Speaker 1: what you're saying there. Well, man, I mean we're we're
33:37
Speaker 1: getting we're getting kind of close to the end here
33:40
Speaker 1: of our time together. You know, where where do you see?
33:44
Speaker 1: You mentioned the novel? Where do you see your sort
33:47
Speaker 1: of trajectory going? I mean, does God has God giving
33:50
Speaker 1: you sort of a general trajectory?
33:53
Speaker 2: Right?
33:53
Speaker 1: Like for me, I think where I'm landing on, where
33:57
Speaker 1: I really want to go is Christian first? Right, helping
34:01
Speaker 1: people understand that concept almost that I just described with Augustine.
34:05
Speaker 1: You know, how do you go about being Christian first?
34:07
Speaker 1: How do you go about living Christian first? And immersing
34:11
Speaker 1: everything you are and have within this love of God,
34:13
Speaker 1: within a loyalty to Him. And that's sort of the
34:17
Speaker 1: I think the trajectory of my writing, my speaking, everything
34:20
Speaker 1: I'm doing.
34:22
Speaker 3: Where do you see yourself sort of heading?
34:25
Speaker 2: I'm kind of in that same boat with you. So,
34:29
Speaker 2: like it's all about just being able to allow people
34:35
Speaker 2: to realize that they have a story and kind and
34:39
Speaker 2: being able to speak it, you know, without out here
34:43
Speaker 2: trembling doing it. But like it doesn't have to be
34:46
Speaker 2: in front of thousands of people. It can be a
34:48
Speaker 2: one to one basis. It can be over coffee, it
34:51
Speaker 2: can be at McDonald's. So like, there's so many different
34:54
Speaker 2: ways that you can share God to people that as
35:01
Speaker 2: long as God ordains the appointment is that seed is
35:05
Speaker 2: going to be planted. It may not be that they
35:08
Speaker 2: are falling in love with what you have to stay
35:10
Speaker 2: right away, but that seed will be planted. And I
35:12
Speaker 2: think that's the most important part of us is that
35:16
Speaker 2: we are seed sewers. And so Foundational Father's Podcast is
35:22
Speaker 2: doing this spin off to allow that to be more
35:25
Speaker 2: of a thing for the people that are in a
35:28
Speaker 2: different generation than we are, as well as Foundational Father's
35:32
Speaker 2: Podcast is going to be taking their show on the road.
35:34
Speaker 2: We're going to be doing more like getting our hands dirty,
35:39
Speaker 2: not just talking about getting our hands dirty, but actually
35:42
Speaker 2: living that out. Because I feel like we can talk
35:46
Speaker 2: through this mic and on this camera all we want
35:49
Speaker 2: about the way to do things, but if we're not
35:52
Speaker 2: in the public eye going that's we believe it not
35:57
Speaker 2: only by speaking it, but by doing it. It says
36:01
Speaker 2: in the Bible that not to just be hearers of
36:03
Speaker 2: the word, but doers also And so that's kind of
36:06
Speaker 2: where we're are phasing two. We are gearing up to
36:12
Speaker 2: I think we're gonna possibly be doing a podcast live
36:15
Speaker 2: from a combine here soon. That should be fun. Uh
36:19
Speaker 2: hopefully there's somebody driving it that knows where there won't
36:22
Speaker 2: be me. But yeah, so like we're and we're gonna
36:25
Speaker 2: be going to Shane Boland's pretty good wood turning chat
36:29
Speaker 2: uh up near Chicago and doing a live broadcast from there.
36:33
Speaker 2: He's been a pretty good supporter of my program and
36:37
Speaker 2: and he's got some pretty cool stuff, so he does. Yeah,
36:41
Speaker 2: he's got a great story. We actually, uh there is
36:44
Speaker 2: an episode where we interviewed him about his story and
36:47
Speaker 2: so if you haven't had a chance to go check
36:50
Speaker 2: it out, do So it's a it was a Shane
36:53
Speaker 2: Boland was the guest then. I think it was in
36:55
Speaker 2: season two. But yeah, we're in season three now, which
36:59
Speaker 2: is also and we're gearing up for an amazing and
37:03
Speaker 2: to season three and then that season four is where
37:06
Speaker 2: everything kind of starts to be on hand in hand
37:09
Speaker 2: on people's locations. So if any of your guests out
37:13
Speaker 2: there are looking for some volunteers, send us. We would
37:19
Speaker 2: love to go.
37:22
Speaker 3: Very cool.
37:23
Speaker 1: That sounds that actually sounds pretty fun. I do a
37:27
Speaker 1: couple episodes. I've done a couple episodes outside the studio,
37:30
Speaker 1: and I find I have a low technological capacity for it.
37:36
Speaker 1: But God bless you man doing out going out and
37:40
Speaker 1: doing those on the road because they are not simple.
37:43
Speaker 3: So that's a fantastic move. I really love it.
37:47
Speaker 1: Well, let me ask you. I usually ask my guests
37:49
Speaker 1: like one final question. I ask it of most of
37:52
Speaker 1: my guests. And so you can take this wherever you want.
37:55
Speaker 1: You can link it back to what we've talked about.
37:57
Speaker 1: You can go a wholly different way. But here's the question.
38:03
Speaker 1: What do you think the church should be doing today
38:05
Speaker 1: in order to be and make more faithful disciples.
38:11
Speaker 2: I think what I talked about earlier about ordinary faith
38:16
Speaker 2: is what the church should be doing. There's a lot
38:18
Speaker 2: of churches out there that I understand trying to be relevant,
38:23
Speaker 2: to be you know able to to cast the big
38:27
Speaker 2: net to catch as many fish as possible, which is
38:31
Speaker 2: a is important. Don't get me wrong. That's a very
38:34
Speaker 2: big part of what we're called to do, but we
38:40
Speaker 2: also need to be sowing seeds when we're casting nets,
38:43
Speaker 2: and so I think it's very important that we realize
38:48
Speaker 2: that the biggest part of sowing seeds is living out
38:52
Speaker 2: in our own lives that ordinary faith of who God
38:56
Speaker 2: is in our life. And we're not we're not sugarcoating it,
38:59
Speaker 2: We're we're not giving it confetti. We are saying for I.
39:05
Speaker 2: It says in the Bible that for I am the
39:07
Speaker 2: way the truth in the lives, that no one comes
39:09
Speaker 2: upon it but by me. And as simple as that, like,
39:14
Speaker 2: we just need to be a church, a church body
39:18
Speaker 2: with hands and feet that all believe the same thing,
39:22
Speaker 2: that that is the one and only way to get
39:24
Speaker 2: to heaven, and we will do anything and everything to
39:28
Speaker 2: let everybody else around us know that that's the case.
39:31
Speaker 1: Cool, good answer, man, I agree with you. I think
39:35
Speaker 1: those small steps of obedience, that intentional engagement every moment
39:40
Speaker 1: of our lives is something that all of us need
39:42
Speaker 1: to do and it's very difficult to do. So yeah,
39:46
Speaker 1: good stuff man. Well, thanks for being on today. Appreciate
39:51
Speaker 1: you taking the time. And your book is going to
39:54
Speaker 1: release here in a few weeks. On all platforms. I
39:57
Speaker 1: think this podcast will be out before that happened or
40:00
Speaker 1: after that happens, and so we'll include all the links,
40:03
Speaker 1: uh to get Nick Sash's book, Unmuted from Silence to Testimony.
40:08
Speaker 1: It'll be on your own personal store, but it'll loss
40:11
Speaker 1: be on Amazon and all the other fun places you
40:13
Speaker 1: can get books right.
40:17
Speaker 2: On my own store at the mute based player dot com. Okay,
40:21
Speaker 2: And so it'll be a discount of price till it
40:23
Speaker 2: releases out to Amazon, and depending on the response rate,
40:29
Speaker 2: I might just extend that discount worldwide. So we'll see what.
40:32
Speaker 1: Has very cool and then Foundational Fathers is the best
40:36
Speaker 1: place to find that. On YouTube, where do you usually
40:39
Speaker 1: send people to get your podcasts and all that kind
40:41
Speaker 1: of good stuff.
40:42
Speaker 2: YouTube have video podcasting uh on there. So both of
40:49
Speaker 2: those places have our video, but on any platform you
40:52
Speaker 2: can always get the actual audio version of it. But yeah,
40:57
Speaker 2: YouTube and spotifies where mainly throw people at cool.
41:03
Speaker 1: I don't remember where I watched it, but I watched
41:05
Speaker 1: you give your testimony at church, I believe, and that
41:08
Speaker 1: might have been on your on your website.
41:12
Speaker 3: Yep.
41:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, So i'd encourage people to go to the Mute
41:15
Speaker 1: bass Player dot com. Yep, that's that right, Okay, Yeah,
41:20
Speaker 1: I encourage people go to the mute player, mute abuse,
41:23
Speaker 1: mute bait bass player dot com, the mute bass player
41:26
Speaker 1: dot com again, I'll link that in the show notes.
41:29
Speaker 1: We'll give you everywhere you can connect with foundational Fathers
41:31
Speaker 1: with Nick, get his book, check out his testimony, really
41:35
Speaker 1: good stuff, and just encourage you to go and check
41:38
Speaker 1: out everything he's doing.
41:40
Speaker 3: Great stuff.
41:41
Speaker 2: Man.
41:41
Speaker 1: Really again, appreciate you being here and uh, just thanks
41:45
Speaker 1: for being on the episode.
41:46
Speaker 2: Hey, take care man. We'll see you again soon, hopefully.
41:49
Speaker 1: All Right, everybody, thanks for joining us today. I'm thinking Christian,
41:52
Speaker 1: we'll catch you on the next episode. Take care, everybody,