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Offseason mailbag: What would it take to get Jeremy Peña? · Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast

0:02
Speaker 1: Hey everybody, welcome in to Tiger Territory. It is a
0:12
Speaker 1: new era for this show. I'm proud to introduce the
0:16
Speaker 1: newest Tiger Territory co-host, Rogelio Castillo. I call him Raj.
0:21
Speaker 1: He's been a friend for several years now. We've been
0:24
Speaker 1: softball teammates. He's appeared as a guest on this podcast
0:28
Speaker 1: and filled in as a guest host on a few
0:31
Speaker 1: occasions back when Kieran was in Italy. For anyone who
0:34
Speaker 1: missed the news in our last episode, Kieran unfortunately got
0:38
Speaker 1: a new day job and fell victim to corporate America.
0:42
Speaker 1: They didn't want him having a podcast. He had to
0:44
Speaker 1: do what was best for him and his family. And
0:47
Speaker 1: so unfortunately he had to give up the pod, but
0:50
Speaker 1: I was lucky to have a replacement I felt really
0:54
Speaker 1: good about. Raj was the first person who came to
0:58
Speaker 1: mind when I thought about who I would want as
1:00
Speaker 1: the next co-host. He's super knowledgeable about the Tigers, knows
1:06
Speaker 1: the minor league system in depth. Raj, I'll hand it
1:10
Speaker 1: over to you. Congrats. Thanks for joining me. What do
1:13
Speaker 1: you want the people to know about you and your background?
1:17
Speaker 2: Well, thanks, Cody, for that really good introduction. I'm just
1:20
Speaker 2: here to tell you a little bit about my background.
1:23
Speaker 2: I've been doing podcasts now for 10 years now. It's
1:25
Speaker 2: been 10 years since I started, uh, I started a,
1:28
Speaker 2: as an independent Tigers, uh, SRD, and then it grew
1:31
Speaker 2: in the tiger, my other report. And so, uh, Chris
1:34
Speaker 2: Brown and I have been, uh, at the hip for
1:36
Speaker 2: the last 10 years. And he's been, just been, we're
1:40
Speaker 2: been fortunate enough. Thanks to you and the crew of
1:42
Speaker 2: the Detroit baseball association. I'd be part of the baseball
1:44
Speaker 2: writers association, which is something I never thought that would be.
1:47
Speaker 3: Uh, happen.
1:48
Speaker 2: And, um, I'm here to just, I'm not caring. I'm not,
1:52
Speaker 2: I'm he's dude's a legend. I'm just here to do
1:56
Speaker 2: what I got to do and just contribute. I'm just
1:58
Speaker 2: really happy to be here and be part of this
2:00
Speaker 2: great foul territory network. This is a great group of people,
2:03
Speaker 2: and I'm looking forward to making.
2:07
Speaker 3: Some podcasts, man.
2:07
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm a little nervous right now, I'm not
2:10
Speaker 2: going to lie, but at the same time, it's just
2:14
Speaker 2: like us talking like we are in softball, except we
2:17
Speaker 2: don't have somebody like Nick ask us 500 questions.
2:21
Speaker 1: And I've seen Raj get a little fired up on
2:24
Speaker 1: the softball field, uh, a time or two.
2:27
Speaker 3: Yeah.
2:30
Speaker 1: We'll see if we ever get that side of them, uh,
2:32
Speaker 1: out of them on the podcast. Uh, for now we're
2:35
Speaker 1: going to get going with a little bit of a
2:37
Speaker 1: mailbag episode. I'm going to let everyone know I'm running
2:40
Speaker 1: on like one and a half hours of sleep. I
2:42
Speaker 1: flew back from Tampa, uh, with the world series this
2:45
Speaker 1: morning before, you know, we're recording this here Thursday night. Um,
2:51
Speaker 1: I hope you guys will check out the story I
2:53
Speaker 1: wrote about Brewers fans and kind of what this win
2:56
Speaker 1: meant to them. It got a really good reception today,
3:00
Speaker 1: and that meant a lot to me because it was
3:03
Speaker 1: one of the most emotional stories I've ever written. Some
3:06
Speaker 1: people shared some really sad stories about loved ones who died,
3:11
Speaker 1: and then also some very happy stories about what it
3:14
Speaker 1: meant to see the Brewers win the World Series. there've
3:20
Speaker 1: been points working on that story over the past three
3:22
Speaker 1: days that I was like breaking down and, and randomly crying.
3:28
Speaker 1: So it meant a lot to me to see that
3:30
Speaker 1: get a positive reception. Certainly one of my favorite stories
3:34
Speaker 1: and the Brewers as an organization, you know, I was
3:36
Speaker 1: happy to see them win the world series. They've been
3:38
Speaker 1: the team that I've followed fairly closely in terms of
3:41
Speaker 1: teams outside the Tigers over, over the past several years and,
3:45
Speaker 1: I remember just being really impressed with him in 2024. Um,
3:49
Speaker 1: big fan of Pat Murphy, you know, a few days
3:51
Speaker 1: around that guy and you literally start to think about
3:54
Speaker 1: things differently, see the world a little bit differently. You know,
3:58
Speaker 1: he talks a lot about how like, Hey, it's not
4:00
Speaker 1: about you. It's not, it's, it's not about me. Like
4:03
Speaker 1: it's not about any, uh, any one person. If you're
4:07
Speaker 1: living your life like that, you're, you're, you're probably off
4:09
Speaker 1: course a little bit. Think about where you fit in
4:11
Speaker 1: the grander scheme. And even though I'm not part of a,
4:14
Speaker 1: baseball team trying to win a world championship. That's like
4:16
Speaker 1: a lesson I kind of feel coming away from a
4:20
Speaker 1: few days covering the World Series. I could probably talk
4:25
Speaker 1: more about that. I don't know, Roger. Did you have
4:29
Speaker 1: any thoughts just following that series, watching the Brewers? What
4:33
Speaker 1: were some of the things that maybe came to mind
4:34
Speaker 1: for you?
4:36
Speaker 3: You know, I think you did a really good job.
4:38
Speaker 2: The picture in the story where the towel where they
4:41
Speaker 2: have the towel hanging from the, uh, was it, it.
4:44
Speaker 3: Looks like the hospice room hospital. Yeah.
4:46
Speaker 2: Hospice room that like kind of hit home for me too,
4:50
Speaker 2: in a lot of different ways. Um, I thought the
4:52
Speaker 2: series was really, I was, I thought Pat Murphy, even
4:57
Speaker 2: yesterday with the whole moment with, with Jake Bowers and
5:00
Speaker 2: the Yankees, I thought it was a lot of just, it, it,
5:03
Speaker 2: it held, it had the vibe of what Harvey King
5:06
Speaker 2: was able to do in 1982, almost in a sense
5:09
Speaker 2: that because, uh, Here he is. He came in mid-season
5:11
Speaker 2: in 82 and rallied the Brewers with that young talent.
5:15
Speaker 2: The same core with Robin Gout and Paul Monitor. And
5:20
Speaker 2: they had a really good Cecil Cooper. It has almost
5:23
Speaker 2: the same vibes to it, too. It's like they ran
5:25
Speaker 2: into a very good Cardinals team. And I think that
5:29
Speaker 2: Tampa really had a really good season. But the Brewers
5:35
Speaker 2: felt like a team of destiny kind of thing. And
5:37
Speaker 2: there was always this thing about them, this vibe about them,
5:40
Speaker 2: especially the Jackson Terrio game-winning hit. I believe it was
5:43
Speaker 2: in the San Diego series where it was just one
5:45
Speaker 2: of those, the timely hitting, the two-out hitting. I've never
5:49
Speaker 2: seen it was eight, nine runs on two outs.
5:52
Speaker 3: That's unheard of.
5:54
Speaker 1: Kevin Cash talked about it after the game. He said
5:56
Speaker 1: that was the best at-bat quality game-to-game, inning-to-inning that I've
6:01
Speaker 1: ever seen. And it generally feels like that, watching the Brewers.
6:05
Speaker 1: And to some degree, the Rays, too.
6:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the biggest takeaway I thought, too, was just
6:12
Speaker 2: seeing all the X-Rays, Tiger Glass now, they showed Chris
6:15
Speaker 2: Archer rallying everything around their former team.
6:20
Speaker 3: To me, I thought that was really cool.
6:22
Speaker 2: I know that was kind of like MLB trying to
6:24
Speaker 2: promote unity and what have you, but I thought that
6:26
Speaker 2: was really cool. I mean, I know Tampa is a
6:28
Speaker 2: relatively young franchise, comparatively speaking, to the Tigers.
6:31
Speaker 3: Or even the Brewers, but I don't know.
6:33
Speaker 2: I was just tired of last night just rooting the
6:36
Speaker 2: Rays and getting in the face about everything.
6:38
Speaker 3: I was not expecting that whatsoever.
6:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was asked to try to go talk to
6:43
Speaker 1: those guys before Game 5. I don't think they were
6:45
Speaker 1: there for 5. They were for 3 and 4. If
6:47
Speaker 1: they were there for 5, I didn't see them, so
6:49
Speaker 1: I didn't get to do that story and pick their
6:51
Speaker 1: brains about it. But that brought to mind one of
6:54
Speaker 1: the other things, like culture gets tossed around so much,
6:58
Speaker 1: especially with the Brewers, and I think somewhat the Rays, too.
7:01
Speaker 1: It's easy to say coming off the heels of a
7:04
Speaker 1: World Series victory. No one talks about like, oh, they
7:06
Speaker 1: won the World Series, but their culture wasn't that great.
7:09
Speaker 1: Like everyone's, you know, vibes are great when you win
7:11
Speaker 1: a ring. But the Brewers, I think another reason I've
7:16
Speaker 1: kind of been drawn to them and written about them
7:17
Speaker 1: a decent bit, like they're a pretty good organization with people.
7:21
Speaker 1: They're pretty loose, approachable. I just think there are a
7:26
Speaker 1: lot of good people over there. I don't know the
7:28
Speaker 1: Rays as well, but I get a similar sense and look,
7:33
Speaker 1: two years ago, the Tigers had a feel good playoff
7:35
Speaker 1: run and we were talking about how great their culture was,
7:38
Speaker 1: but comparatively speaking, like the Tigers have gotten very buttoned up.
7:43
Speaker 1: There's kind of a very corporate feel around their organization.
7:46
Speaker 1: And look, I mean, they're owned by the Illich family,
7:50
Speaker 1: the president of baseball operations, the son of two doctors
7:53
Speaker 1: from the Bay area who has a degree from the
7:56
Speaker 1: London school of economics. The manager went to Stanford. It
8:00
Speaker 1: all kind of makes sense for better or worse. But
8:03
Speaker 1: I do wonder if maybe the Tigers have gone a
8:05
Speaker 1: little bit too far down that road. And maybe you
8:08
Speaker 1: saw that manifest. Maybe some people were playing for themselves
8:12
Speaker 1: a little bit. People probably think I'm talking about Tarek
8:15
Speaker 1: Skubal there. I'm not. I'm not even saying it's a
8:18
Speaker 1: bad thing. It's just a natural thing that can seep in.
8:20
Speaker 1: And when things are overly buttoned up, can that make
8:25
Speaker 1: for a tense environment? Or is there the same level
8:28
Speaker 1: of motivation? People always talk about the Brewers like, oh,
8:31
Speaker 1: they're kind of like a college team. I think not
8:34
Speaker 1: just in the way they play, but there's kind of
8:36
Speaker 1: this prevailing sense of belief. You can tell Murphy believes
8:40
Speaker 1: in his players and wants the best for his players.
8:44
Speaker 1: I don't know. I wonder if the Tigers have lost
8:46
Speaker 1: that a little bit. That's just one thought I had
8:49
Speaker 1: coming away from this World Series.
8:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, because when you think about, for example, the Tigers
8:55
Speaker 2: in the past in 1984 when Jack Morris had to
8:59
Speaker 2: go on a helicopter to Domino Farms get pizzas because
9:03
Speaker 2: they had no food in Tiger Stadium. I don't see
9:06
Speaker 2: that story coming out. If the Tigers get that far,
9:07
Speaker 2: I don't see that happening. You hear something like that
9:12
Speaker 2: probably with the Brewers. There's always the jokes about Wisconsin
9:17
Speaker 2: having cheese and the beer. All the stereotypes that come
9:21
Speaker 2: with Milwaukee being in Wisconsin.
9:24
Speaker 3: But I agree with you. Going down to the clubhouse
9:26
Speaker 3: this year, sometimes at Comerica Park was... a little too quiet,
9:30
Speaker 3: a little too eerie.
9:31
Speaker 2: And looking at guys like Sal Frederick, these guys just
9:35
Speaker 2: seem like the type of guys that would hang out
9:41
Speaker 2: with each other after the game. And they seem to
9:44
Speaker 2: have a very good sense of camaraderie that didn't seem
9:46
Speaker 2: disingenuous whatsoever.
9:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I don't know if that actually means anything
9:52
Speaker 1: for the Tigers, but certainly a thought I had, certainly
9:55
Speaker 1: something we'll keep an eye on. Whenever there is baseball again,
9:59
Speaker 1: which none of us know, but we do have a
10:01
Speaker 1: long offseason to talk and to speculate. So, Rog, let's
10:05
Speaker 1: go ahead and get into some questions from listeners here
10:09
Speaker 1: for our mailbag. We'll start with this. It's pretty wide-ranging.
10:14
Speaker 1: It's from Caleb Williams, number one hater. Is this current
10:19
Speaker 1: Tigers blueprint a recipe for long-term sustained success, meaning multiple
10:24
Speaker 1: playoff appearances and division contention for the foreseeable future? Basically,
10:30
Speaker 1: I think our pal Certified Troll, that's the handle for
10:35
Speaker 1: Caleb Williams' number one hater, this question actually doesn't seem
10:39
Speaker 1: to be trolling. I think they just want to know
10:41
Speaker 1: kind of the long-term outlook for the Tigers and Rod,
10:44
Speaker 1: especially given your knowledge of the system kind of up
10:47
Speaker 1: and down, what are your thoughts on that?
10:50
Speaker 2: Well, I think that in terms of infield talent and
10:55
Speaker 2: some of the outfield talent, or excuse me, infield and
10:57
Speaker 2: probably some starting pitchers, there is some sustainability that can help.
11:02
Speaker 3: With the Tigers.
11:02
Speaker 2: One of the questions that I still have is where
11:06
Speaker 2: are the swing and miss relievers coming from internally? The Tigers,
11:09
Speaker 2: Scott Harris mentioned this, that during the closing press conference,
11:14
Speaker 2: they're going to look eternal for some pitching. And I'm just,
11:17
Speaker 2: I have many questions about that because you look in
11:20
Speaker 2: on the aisle across the board from double A to
11:23
Speaker 2: triple A, the Tigers had a lot of guys are
11:25
Speaker 2: down and they were trying to fix things with a
11:28
Speaker 2: lot of minor league free agents in triple A. And so,
11:31
Speaker 2: but if you look below that, I mean, you have
11:33
Speaker 2: Ben Jacobs, you have a couple of guys in low
11:36
Speaker 2: A that at West Michigan, if they can take the
11:39
Speaker 2: next step this year in double A, then yeah, I
11:42
Speaker 2: think that you, you have something to build. I think
11:44
Speaker 2: the Tigers have way too much for the first time.
11:46
Speaker 2: I can say this in, in 20 plus years, they
11:48
Speaker 2: have a lot of infield options to choose from. And
11:51
Speaker 2: so it, now you have, you know, Kevin O'Donnell who
11:54
Speaker 2: let the human war, you have how you use intriguing.
11:58
Speaker 2: You have all these intriguing pieces that at least can
12:00
Speaker 2: keep you competitive. It's just, I think to me, the
12:03
Speaker 2: one part of this blueprint that's missing is swing and
12:07
Speaker 2: miss pitching.
12:07
Speaker 3: And that is a big thing. If you look at
12:09
Speaker 3: what the, what the brewers were able to do with
12:11
Speaker 3: a raise, we're able to do this postseason.
12:13
Speaker 2: Dominant bullpen and they don't have that and so that
12:17
Speaker 2: it's like the it's a house of you know if
12:18
Speaker 2: you're looking at blueprint you look at the foundation your
12:21
Speaker 2: foundation is cracked right now with that and that's where
12:23
Speaker 2: i think the tigers biggest uh biggest hole.
12:26
Speaker 1: Is right now well yeah i think i think that's
12:29
Speaker 1: pretty obvious i i would say here one thing that
12:31
Speaker 1: gets lost when the heels have a really disappointing season
12:35
Speaker 1: is like all things considered i think the organizational health
12:38
Speaker 1: for the tigers remains really good helps when you have
12:41
Speaker 1: a guy like kevin mcgonigal Seven War is a rookie,
12:44
Speaker 1: and he's already locked up. Helps when you have Max
12:47
Speaker 1: Clark come up and taste success in his first glimpse
12:51
Speaker 1: of the big leagues. Helps when you have Jackson Jobe,
12:54
Speaker 1: Troy Melton, Frambois Valdez, Cater Montero, like the makings of
12:59
Speaker 1: a pretty good rotation already just sitting right there. I
13:03
Speaker 1: think even going forward, and some more prospects on the way,
13:06
Speaker 1: Bryce Rainer's on the way, Josue Bersanio's on the way.
13:10
Speaker 1: The Tigers... I don't think they're going to be terrible
13:13
Speaker 1: again anytime soon. Like we're not going back to the 2018,
13:16
Speaker 1: 2019 dark ages anytime soon. The whole question is like, okay,
13:20
Speaker 1: you should be pretty good. Now, what can you do
13:23
Speaker 1: with that? Going from pretty, as we talked about a lot,
13:26
Speaker 1: going from pretty good to really good often depends on
13:31
Speaker 1: kind of the small things around the margins, the small
13:33
Speaker 1: things that the Scott Harris front office seemed to pride
13:37
Speaker 1: themselves on, but hasn't worked out as well, at least
13:40
Speaker 1: in the past year and a half. Bullpen being a
13:43
Speaker 1: big part of that. Can you be better than a
13:47
Speaker 1: middle-of-the-pack type offense? Well, the Tigers certainly have a lot
13:50
Speaker 1: of faith in their young bats, but what's going to
13:53
Speaker 1: kind of push them over the top? There were some
13:56
Speaker 1: way too early power rankings that came out recently. I
13:59
Speaker 1: think ESPN had the Tigers at number seven. My colleagues
14:03
Speaker 1: at The Athletic had the Tigers down at 16. I
14:07
Speaker 1: think they're closer to 7 than 16, actually. I mean, especially, like,
14:13
Speaker 1: they're just not in that good of a division. I
14:15
Speaker 1: think they should probably be AL Central favorites. At the
14:18
Speaker 1: same time, they have not beat the Guardians in the
14:21
Speaker 1: AL Central. You know, they have not done it before.
14:25
Speaker 1: So there's certainly a lot left to prove. But in
14:28
Speaker 1: terms of the health, the prognosis, I think it's pretty good.
14:32
Speaker 1: You just got to get some things right to actually
14:34
Speaker 1: take advantage.
14:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I would go closer to 7-2. It
14:39
Speaker 2: just depends on what they do this offseason to address
14:42
Speaker 2: the bullpen. I think that the Tigers even, I know
14:45
Speaker 2: there's just a lot of impatience with Cole Keith, and there's,
14:48
Speaker 2: of course, the ever, ever pop, ever, it seems like
14:52
Speaker 2: an evergreen topic about, you know, much to do about
14:55
Speaker 2: Spencer Torkelson. But if I look at the Tigers on
14:58
Speaker 2: paper with some of the guys that are coming back
15:00
Speaker 2: next year with Reese Olsen, And even with some of
15:03
Speaker 2: the versatility they have, they can have to trade some
15:07
Speaker 2: players that they have in the system.
15:08
Speaker 3: It just depends on how Scott Harris wants to pull
15:10
Speaker 3: the trigger with this.
15:11
Speaker 2: Because if John Pack can take another step forward, you
15:15
Speaker 2: still have to think about Zach McKinstry and in terms
15:19
Speaker 2: of arbitration coming up. There's some big questions coming up
15:22
Speaker 2: where it can take the Tigers either 7 or to 16. Yeah,
15:27
Speaker 2: that's a good way to put it. how they're addressing
15:30
Speaker 2: these salary concerns coming up. So I'll be interested to
15:33
Speaker 2: see how they will address that going forward.
15:36
Speaker 3: All right.
15:37
Speaker 1: Well, let's dive a little deeper into some of the
15:40
Speaker 1: issues you mentioned. Here's a question from James with the
15:43
Speaker 1: Twitter handle, xhandle, at gritty underscore tags. What is the
15:48
Speaker 1: best path forward to building a great bullpen? Raj, I
15:53
Speaker 1: struggle with like a concise way to answer this because
15:55
Speaker 1: I would say that's kind of what every organization is
15:57
Speaker 1: trying to figure out how to do, how to build
15:58
Speaker 1: a great bullpen. Bullpens are volatile by nature. Pitchers are
16:04
Speaker 1: prone to injuries. But one of the things you mentioned, like, well,
16:07
Speaker 1: I think it starts with stuff and getting swing and
16:10
Speaker 1: miss capabilities. What else kind of enters your mind here
16:14
Speaker 1: in terms of how the Tigers can actually make their
16:16
Speaker 1: bullpen better?
16:18
Speaker 2: I think it's also really velocity. I mean, velocity is
16:21
Speaker 2: not everything, but the way you use your velocity.
16:24
Speaker 3: I look at, for.
16:25
Speaker 2: Example, I was talking about this earlier. that Jason Foley
16:29
Speaker 2: comes to mind. Jason Foley had all 99 to 100,
16:32
Speaker 2: but everything was kind of straight. It took him a
16:34
Speaker 2: while before he could take that velocity and use it
16:36
Speaker 2: a certain way. And the other part of it is versatility.
16:42
Speaker 2: And the reason why I mention versatility is because the Tigers,
16:44
Speaker 2: one of the things that I noticed about the Brewers'
16:46
Speaker 2: bullpen was how they were able to go multiple innings
16:50
Speaker 2: several times.
16:50
Speaker 3: Aaron Ashby was so clutch. He was able to escape.
16:54
Speaker 2: Like just every time, and Tyler Holden has those kind
16:57
Speaker 2: of qualities to a certain extent, but the versatility, strikeouts,
17:01
Speaker 2: I mean, every single pitcher they had, with the exception
17:04
Speaker 2: of Grant Anderson, it just seemed like they had guys
17:07
Speaker 2: that could go out there and strike out anybody at
17:09
Speaker 2: any given time.
17:11
Speaker 3: I know that involves swing and.
17:12
Speaker 2: Miss, but it's really just a matter of when you
17:18
Speaker 2: can get the swing and miss. I mean, it's great
17:20
Speaker 2: when you get the first out of the inning, but
17:22
Speaker 2: when you can get those strikeouts second, third out of
17:25
Speaker 2: the innings and just finish, just go in there and
17:28
Speaker 2: complete the strike zone. Tigers have a guy like Drew Summers,
17:30
Speaker 2: for example, good strikeout rate, but walks so much. So
17:33
Speaker 2: reducing walks, that's another part of that bullpen, a path
17:37
Speaker 2: to a very good bullpen.
17:38
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think Scott Harris was pretty clear that he
17:42
Speaker 1: seemingly wants to continue, you know, creating a stable of starters,
17:47
Speaker 1: having starting pitching depth that some of those guys get
17:49
Speaker 1: bumped to the bullpen, and can then be effective relievers.
17:54
Speaker 1: That didn't work out for the Tigers this year, but
17:57
Speaker 1: I don't hate that as an approach. I mean, think
17:59
Speaker 1: of someone like Reese Olsen. Could be a pretty interesting
18:03
Speaker 1: X factor for next year's team. He could be healthy
18:06
Speaker 1: and a starter and really good if he picks up
18:08
Speaker 1: where he left off. He could be injured, a shoulder injury,
18:11
Speaker 1: and maybe he's never quite the same again. There is
18:14
Speaker 1: a world where maybe it just makes more sense to
18:17
Speaker 1: put him in the pin, ease up the workload a
18:20
Speaker 1: little bit, but Reese Olsen was able to miss a
18:22
Speaker 1: decent amount of bats, especially, I think, with his changeup
18:24
Speaker 1: as a starter. Could be an interesting reliever mix. Maybe
18:28
Speaker 1: that helps you out of the pin a little bit.
18:32
Speaker 1: Drew Anderson was, of course, notably better as a starter,
18:37
Speaker 1: but still has some swing and miss capabilities. I think
18:39
Speaker 1: he's going to come back in that swingman role. Cater
18:42
Speaker 1: Montero is a guy... for as much as I feel
18:45
Speaker 1: like he has earned to have his name written in
18:47
Speaker 1: the rotation, wouldn't be shocked if he sees time in
18:51
Speaker 1: the bullpen, assuming the Tigers signed another starter or two,
18:55
Speaker 1: in part because he can be really good back there
18:58
Speaker 1: and he's already proven that as well. And then it's like, okay, well,
19:02
Speaker 1: how much are you going to stake on signing relievers,
19:04
Speaker 1: paying for relievers? It can be risky. There are a
19:07
Speaker 1: lot of moves out there that Haven't worked out. Edwin
19:10
Speaker 1: Diaz being one of them. Devin Williams in the past.
19:13
Speaker 1: Ryan Helsley. They're more that come to mind. I still
19:17
Speaker 1: kind of think maybe the Tigers are at a point where, look, especially,
19:20
Speaker 1: let's say they're not going to chase Tarek Skubal. Let's
19:23
Speaker 1: say they're not going to do anything crazy in terms
19:25
Speaker 1: of adding a bat. It's not like they really have
19:28
Speaker 1: payroll constraints stopping them from paying a decent amount for
19:32
Speaker 1: a reliever on a two- or three-year deal. I think
19:34
Speaker 1: if you could get one real ninth-inning-type guy Hope you
19:38
Speaker 1: can hit on a couple guys in development. Hope someone
19:41
Speaker 1: like a Rieselsen or a Cater Montero helps your pin.
19:45
Speaker 1: Suddenly you could be in better shape, but I guess
19:49
Speaker 1: that's my way of saying it. saying there's never one
19:52
Speaker 1: right way to do things. You probably have to build
19:55
Speaker 1: your bullpen through those three or four different type avenues,
20:00
Speaker 1: and that's how you're going to have a better bullpen
20:01
Speaker 1: next year, which obviously requires a lot of things going right.
20:04
Speaker 3: Right.
20:05
Speaker 1: Right.
20:06
Speaker 3: And you know what?
20:07
Speaker 2: Look, I'll say this early on. I think River Ryan's
20:10
Speaker 2: a perfect candidate for the bullpen.
20:12
Speaker 3: And here's why.
20:13
Speaker 2: I think because of his... I mean, everybody was making
20:16
Speaker 2: this big deal about his age when they acquired him.
20:18
Speaker 2: If you want to keep him healthy, you have a
20:20
Speaker 2: guy who uses his fastball almost 40% of the time.
20:24
Speaker 2: Combine that with a slider and a change, that you
20:27
Speaker 2: have enough. And then he can also throw a cutter
20:29
Speaker 2: and a curve or a sinker if he needs to.
20:31
Speaker 2: It would be a two-seamer, technically.
20:33
Speaker 3: But still.
20:34
Speaker 2: That combination of everything, with the starters mixed into the bullpen,
20:37
Speaker 2: with that velocity, his stuff is really good. His swing
20:40
Speaker 2: stuff is really good. I think, personally, that's just me,
20:43
Speaker 2: that he should be in the bullpen because that allows
20:46
Speaker 2: you to, if you want to put Olsen out there
20:49
Speaker 2: or Monteiro, maybe go with a six-man possible rotation. I
20:53
Speaker 2: just think that River Ryan is the key to the
20:55
Speaker 2: bullpen next year. If you're going to stick with something eternal,
20:58
Speaker 2: because a lot of times, what, bullpen guys are, former
21:01
Speaker 2: starter failed starters dennis chakras comes to mind i mean
21:04
Speaker 2: also that ancient example but still you never know until
21:08
Speaker 2: what you're going to try with and so i think
21:09
Speaker 2: with that velocity and river ryan's capability of getting swing
21:13
Speaker 2: and miss i think he'd be a perfect guy that
21:14
Speaker 2: you can put out there in something any.
21:16
Speaker 1: Well that's that's an interesting one to kind of plant
21:19
Speaker 1: your flag on raj but i like it i certainly
21:21
Speaker 1: think the tigers are going to try river ryan as
21:23
Speaker 1: a starter given he was part of the scoogle trade
21:26
Speaker 1: and like you said given he has at least five
21:29
Speaker 1: potential plus pitches But the injury concerns, the age, the fact, hey,
21:34
Speaker 1: it'd just be nice to have a dude who throws
21:35
Speaker 1: 100 in the back of your pin. I don't hate
21:41
Speaker 1: it as a concept. We're going to go into another
21:45
Speaker 1: question real quick. And this is something I think we're
21:47
Speaker 1: going to talk about a lot more over the next month.
21:50
Speaker 1: But for now, this is from TriggerCity at OSU Tiger 7.
21:56
Speaker 1: I think Jeremy Pena makes too much sense for the Tigers.
21:58
Speaker 1: Hinge ties, great defense, Phil's shortstop, right-handed batter, speed. What, realistically,
22:06
Speaker 1: would we need to move to acquire him? Raj, any
22:11
Speaker 1: general thoughts there?
22:14
Speaker 2: If you want to get Pena, if you're going to
22:16
Speaker 2: make a trade, it's going to be obviously through trade, right?
22:20
Speaker 3: Yeah.
22:20
Speaker 2: You're going to have to trade somebody like Jose Bersoño
22:23
Speaker 2: to get him. you really have to, I mean, you
22:25
Speaker 2: have to give up a top five prospect to get them.
22:29
Speaker 2: As far as like I give the Tigers.
22:31
Speaker 3: I like them a lot. I like the fact that
22:32
Speaker 3: you can hit, you know, you hit.
22:34
Speaker 2: 22 home runs this year, at least two 77 gives
22:37
Speaker 2: you that a nice strong OPS and has speed, which
22:40
Speaker 2: Tigers do not have at all. I mean, they were
22:42
Speaker 2: trying to experiment with that, but that's another story for
22:44
Speaker 2: another day. I, the, this concern a little bit, he
22:47
Speaker 2: does strike out a lot, but I can live with that.
22:49
Speaker 3: If he can still do what he's doing now.
22:52
Speaker 2: Um, the fact that he is a plus runner when
22:54
Speaker 2: he does make the right decisions and he just brings
22:56
Speaker 2: a lot to this table, but you have to, I
22:59
Speaker 2: can't stress this enough. The tigers have to trade some
23:03
Speaker 2: major prospects in order to get this happen. They just cannot,
23:07
Speaker 2: I don't want to hear this, you know, uh, uh,
23:09
Speaker 2: caller driven radio.
23:10
Speaker 3: Well, we can trade on Max Anderson and JC on court. No, no, can't.
23:14
Speaker 3: Houston's not dumb.
23:16
Speaker 2: Right.
23:16
Speaker 3: They're going to want some guys in return.
23:18
Speaker 1: Yeah. Um, I think you made a really good point.
23:21
Speaker 1: I think it's a point that sums up like my
23:23
Speaker 1: time podcasting about the Tigers and the Scott Harris era.
23:27
Speaker 1: It's like, does this make sense?
23:29
Speaker 3: Yes.
23:29
Speaker 1: Do I see him doing it? Not really. I do
23:35
Speaker 1: think the Tigers are going to have some interest in
23:37
Speaker 1: trading for a shortstop. And then it's like, okay, well,
23:39
Speaker 1: who's that going to be? What is a palatable price?
23:43
Speaker 1: Payne is about the highest end guy out there. He
23:45
Speaker 1: was a 5.8 war player, uh, uh, Two years ago,
23:50
Speaker 1: 3.4 wore this past year. Final year of his contract.
23:55
Speaker 1: So the fact he's only going to be here for
23:57
Speaker 1: one year is going to make him cheaper than someone
23:59
Speaker 1: like Zach Netto, who's another super interesting name. But then
24:03
Speaker 1: you're talking about really giving up a haul. But maybe
24:06
Speaker 1: it makes more sense to do that for a controllable
24:09
Speaker 1: guy rather than one year. Because even though Pena is
24:12
Speaker 1: only the one year solution, I do think it's going
24:15
Speaker 1: to take, to your point, like a top 100 type prospect.
24:18
Speaker 1: I mean, someone mentioned to me, like, does it cost Job?
24:22
Speaker 1: And I'm like, well, if it costs Job, I don't
24:25
Speaker 1: think I would do it, and I damn sure don't
24:27
Speaker 1: think Scott Harris is going to do it. And then
24:30
Speaker 1: it's like, okay, well, who else are you going to
24:33
Speaker 1: give up?
24:33
Speaker 3: Rainer?
24:34
Speaker 1: Like, I don't think so. Bersanio, like, maybe, except you
24:39
Speaker 1: kind of probably want Bersanio to be your first baseman
24:42
Speaker 1: in a couple years. The Astros don't need Torkelson. They
24:46
Speaker 1: have Christian Walker. It's like, could you... You know, could
24:50
Speaker 1: you sell him on some combination of like Carpenter and
24:56
Speaker 1: Andrew Sears type? But I don't think that's enough. So, yeah,
25:03
Speaker 1: they're going to have to really pony up and risk
25:05
Speaker 1: parting with a big part of their future.
25:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know there's a strange part of the Tiger
25:12
Speaker 2: fan base that's not like Tyron Lorenzo for whatever reason.
25:15
Speaker 2: And so, you know, despite his age and Look, I
25:19
Speaker 2: think Houston could be interested in him. I mean, Lorenzo
25:21
Speaker 2: is a switching catcher who can play first base. He
25:25
Speaker 2: swings a little grooved, which is what.
25:27
Speaker 1: What did he hit in the Erie last year?
25:30
Speaker 2: 220, but he had 20 home runs. It was healthy,
25:36
Speaker 2: but the point was he was actually healthy, and he
25:38
Speaker 2: actually was able to catch.
25:39
Speaker 3: That being said, though, I don't think that's even enough either.
25:43
Speaker 3: If you throw in Lorenzo in the trade, it's intriguing...
25:46
Speaker 3: But I don't think Houston's going to go. I mean,
25:48
Speaker 3: Houston's going to go.
25:48
Speaker 1: Really? When I look at Houston's roster, I think they
25:51
Speaker 1: have needs in the outfield. And that's kind of where
25:54
Speaker 1: the Tigers are a little more thin in terms of, like,
25:57
Speaker 1: you're not giving them Zaire Hope. Are you, I don't know,
26:00
Speaker 1: are you going to trade, like, Callahan or Malgieri? Like, well,
26:03
Speaker 1: does Houston like those guys at all? Like, they're not
26:06
Speaker 1: enough to carry a trade. I guess Parker Meadows could
26:11
Speaker 1: be an interesting idea. But again, like, You're kind of
26:14
Speaker 1: giving them spare parts, and that's usually not enough to
26:17
Speaker 1: get a deal done for a player the caliber of
26:20
Speaker 1: Jeremy Pena.
26:22
Speaker 2: No, I mean, unless they trade for some minor leaguer
26:25
Speaker 2: from Boston. I mean, I don't know what they're going
26:30
Speaker 2: to do, so we'll see what happens.
26:32
Speaker 1: All right, well, let's just go right into something you mentioned.
26:36
Speaker 1: This is from ContainsPeanuts, which is one of the more
26:40
Speaker 1: interesting user names I've seen recently. With Dingler, Valencia, and Bersagno,
26:45
Speaker 1: it seems as if Tyron Lorenzo has been somewhat glossed over.
26:49
Speaker 1: But isn't he currently the second best defensive catcher in
26:52
Speaker 1: the organization? Raj's question seems right up your alley. What
26:57
Speaker 1: are your thoughts there?
27:00
Speaker 2: Yes, he is very good defensively. I mean, he struggled
27:03
Speaker 2: with injuries last season, and there was a point in
27:05
Speaker 2: time last year where he didn't catch until after his
27:09
Speaker 2: hand injury until I believe late August in Erie. But
27:13
Speaker 2: when he came back this year, was catching just fine.
27:17
Speaker 2: As far as, like, calling the own games, I know
27:18
Speaker 2: the minor leaguers, the managers tend to do that. But
27:20
Speaker 2: he's still very good arm, very good ability to pick
27:23
Speaker 2: somebody off at second base, and does a pretty good
27:27
Speaker 2: job of framing. He was a better alternative than Eduardo
27:30
Speaker 2: Valencia when Valencia was down in Erie. Valencia could hit
27:33
Speaker 2: the ball anywhere. And so I think Lonzo, the reason
27:37
Speaker 2: why Skyhurst loves Lonzo is because his ability to can
27:41
Speaker 2: hit for power. And his defensive, like, just in terms
27:45
Speaker 2: of framing and his arm.
27:46
Speaker 3: He's got a big arm. The problem is just consistency
27:50
Speaker 3: of health. I think he can stay healthy.
27:52
Speaker 2: And so the reason why he got glossed over is
27:55
Speaker 2: because his numbers this year were down. He struck out
27:59
Speaker 2: quite a bit more. But also there was questions about
28:02
Speaker 2: his hustle. There's a reason why Andrew Graham's not in
28:06
Speaker 2: the organization anymore because they just, that's another story for
28:10
Speaker 2: another day, but that's, Basically for Lorenzo's purposes. But I
28:16
Speaker 2: think there's a lot to like about Lorenzo. It's just
28:19
Speaker 2: a matter of... We've seen this time and time again, Cody.
28:22
Speaker 2: We've talked about this in the press box. Catchers take
28:25
Speaker 2: time to develop.
28:26
Speaker 3: And there's a lot.
28:27
Speaker 2: I don't know why people are harder on Lorenzo than
28:29
Speaker 2: they were on Dingler. It took Dingler a long time
28:31
Speaker 2: to develop before he became something. So there's some metrics
28:35
Speaker 2: that are similar. But this is the year where Lorenzo
28:39
Speaker 2: has to put it together. If he doesn't put it
28:40
Speaker 2: together this year... It's just a lost cause, honestly. And
28:44
Speaker 2: he's on the 40-man roster for a reason. But at
28:49
Speaker 2: this point, look, if a team's interested in him and
28:52
Speaker 2: you use that for leverage, the Tigers have Depp a
28:55
Speaker 2: catcher for once.
28:56
Speaker 3: And so.
28:58
Speaker 2: I think personally, if the Tigers moved on from him,
29:01
Speaker 2: I think they'd be fine. Some team would be happy
29:03
Speaker 2: about the power, but I think the Tigers would be fine.
29:06
Speaker 1: So do you think he's a better or worse defender
29:08
Speaker 1: than Valencia?
29:09
Speaker 2: Yeah. He's a better defender than Valencia is. That's 100%
29:13
Speaker 2: for sure. Valencia has worked on his game quite a bit.
29:18
Speaker 2: I think he's gotten better up here than he did
29:21
Speaker 2: in the minor leagues.
29:22
Speaker 3: He's done a very good job. But I think Lorenzo
29:26
Speaker 3: has a better arm than Valencia does.
29:28
Speaker 1: The arm, I think, for sure is better. Lorenzo's receiving,
29:31
Speaker 1: just based on what I've seen, still scares me at times.
29:35
Speaker 1: And it seems like Valencia calls a pretty good game.
29:37
Speaker 1: So I think they're definitely... different behind the plate.
29:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the biggest thing between him and Briseño,
29:46
Speaker 2: for example, Briseño is still a little rough around the
29:49
Speaker 2: edges sometimes with just sometimes when he catches in terms
29:53
Speaker 2: of receiving and framing.
29:55
Speaker 3: I think Lorenzo's a better framer.
29:57
Speaker 2: But yeah, there's times where There was a lot of
30:00
Speaker 2: pass balls with Lorenzo last year, and he got better this.
30:02
Speaker 3: Year about it. So, defensively, there were.
30:05
Speaker 2: Some improvements this year compared to last year where there
30:07
Speaker 2: was just, I think it was more mental lapses. He
30:09
Speaker 2: had a lot going on last year, to be fair,
30:11
Speaker 2: and so it gives him the benefit of the doubt.
30:14
Speaker 3: All right.
30:14
Speaker 1: Well, we are coming up on time here, so we're
30:17
Speaker 1: going to do just one more, but I think it's
30:20
Speaker 1: another good one for you, Raj. Again, from our friend ContainsPeanuts,
30:24
Speaker 1: out of Peyton Graham, Trey Sweeney, and John Peck. Who
30:28
Speaker 1: has the most untapped upside?
30:32
Speaker 2: Well, there's this contingency of Tiger fans that think I
30:34
Speaker 2: hate Peyton Graham because I'm always getting comments about because
30:38
Speaker 2: of his numbers and stuff like that.
30:39
Speaker 3: I don't hate Peyton Graham.
30:41
Speaker 2: I think Peyton Graham is a fine player who this
30:45
Speaker 2: year came out and had a really good year. That
30:47
Speaker 2: being said, John Pack surpassed him in the order for
30:51
Speaker 2: reasons that are pretty simple.
30:53
Speaker 3: I think that Peyton Graham.
30:57
Speaker 2: has a little more, in terms of like, I think
31:00
Speaker 2: he can get a little more power, but defensively, I
31:03
Speaker 2: think Peck is a better defender. I think the untappedness is,
31:07
Speaker 2: if John Peck can lift the ball more, I mean,
31:10
Speaker 2: we saw him this year struggle a little bit with
31:11
Speaker 2: just trying to get more line drives, more of what
31:15
Speaker 2: we're seeing in the minor leagues. He made a swing
31:17
Speaker 2: change in West Michigan, and that's what made him surpass
31:20
Speaker 2: Peyton Graham.
31:21
Speaker 3: Peyton Graham's healthy this year.
31:22
Speaker 2: He stole a lot of bases. He has a The
31:25
Speaker 2: Tigers have to make a Rule 5 decision on him.
31:28
Speaker 2: And no offense to Trey Sweeney, but I haven't... Trey Sweeney,
31:33
Speaker 2: to me.
31:35
Speaker 3: You know, it's like....
31:38
Speaker 2: It's almost like how often... I haven't seen him play
31:41
Speaker 2: in a while, so I'll be honest with you. I
31:43
Speaker 2: think out of all the two that I just mentioned,
31:45
Speaker 2: I think Peck has a slight upside. Then Peyton Graham.
31:50
Speaker 2: Peyton Graham has a little more potential for power. And
31:54
Speaker 2: I saw him game against Ackroyd. He went five for five.
31:57
Speaker 2: Five for six or something like that. And there are
32:00
Speaker 2: some times where you're like, man, this guy really struggled.
32:02
Speaker 2: And sometimes defensively you see him in the same game
32:04
Speaker 2: he collapsed. You're like, where Peck is the sure-handed defender.
32:08
Speaker 2: But I haven't seen Trey Sweeney in a while. So,
32:10
Speaker 2: I mean, outside of the series in Baltimore, he made
32:13
Speaker 2: that great play.
32:14
Speaker 3: I haven't seen him play since then.
32:16
Speaker 2: Right.
32:17
Speaker 1: Something I talked about with Kieran, I think, just a
32:19
Speaker 1: couple episodes ago was that in the early stages of
32:23
Speaker 1: this past year's spring training, Trey Sweeney had made some
32:26
Speaker 1: noticeable swing adjustments, and it looked pretty interesting. And then
32:31
Speaker 1: he got hurt, and we never got to see it. So, like,
32:33
Speaker 1: as much as he's been out of sight, out of mind, like,
32:36
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think this question is interesting in
32:40
Speaker 1: that if you were to ask me, like, who is
32:44
Speaker 1: the best player out of the three, I certainly would
32:46
Speaker 1: not say Peyton Graham. I think Peck's the best defender.
32:52
Speaker 1: I don't think either he or Sweeney are great hitters,
32:55
Speaker 1: but I might lean towards Sweeney's bat.
32:58
Speaker 2: Maybe.
32:58
Speaker 1: I don't even know if I feel good about that. Now,
33:01
Speaker 1: if you're asking who has the most untapped potential, I
33:05
Speaker 1: think Graham has the most interesting raw tools. You mentioned power,
33:10
Speaker 1: the speed, stealing, what, 60-something bags in the minor leagues.
33:14
Speaker 2: Yeah.
33:15
Speaker 1: If there's some sort of pick to click, maybe it
33:17
Speaker 1: could be him. That's a super probably bottom 20% outcome
33:22
Speaker 1: in terms of his profile. But for the purpose of
33:25
Speaker 1: this question, who has the most untapped potential? I kind
33:29
Speaker 1: of think Peyton Graham. Who's the most likely to one
33:32
Speaker 1: day maybe become a major league regular? I'm not sure
33:37
Speaker 1: if I would pick Sweeney or Peck. That's kind of
33:40
Speaker 1: a tough call.
33:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think if you look at Graham, I think
33:44
Speaker 2: Graham in the right situation could be a good utility
33:47
Speaker 2: player for a team, whether it be the Tigers or
33:49
Speaker 2: somebody else.
33:51
Speaker 3: But as far as all three being regulars, I don't know, man.
33:56
Speaker 3: I don't see that happening.
33:58
Speaker 1: I think you're right. I think that's what this boils
34:01
Speaker 1: down to. They're probably, Peck and Sweeney, right now, profile
34:05
Speaker 1: as extra infielders, if not up-down type guys.
34:09
Speaker 3: And Graham.
34:11
Speaker 1: it still kind of has to prove he can even
34:14
Speaker 1: become a big leader. There are a few more boxes
34:16
Speaker 1: he has to check.
34:17
Speaker 3: Absolutely.
34:19
Speaker 1: All right, well, we are at time, but Raj, thank
34:22
Speaker 1: you so much. I hope you guys enjoyed this. That
34:26
Speaker 1: is number one. Actually, it's not number one. Raj has
34:28
Speaker 1: hosted a few Tiger Territory episodes before, but in terms
34:32
Speaker 1: of official, in terms of being signed, sealed, and delivered,
34:35
Speaker 1: congrats to Raj on his official Tiger Territory debut. We
34:40
Speaker 1: will see you guys again soon.