Latest / 360 with Katie Woolf / Australian Education Union NT Branch President Michelle Ayres says a secondary education review focusing on how to re-engage students is a band aid fix for bigger issues around school funding

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Australian Education Union NT Branch President Michelle Ayres says a secondary education review focusing on how to re-engage students is a band aid fix for bigger issues around school funding · 360 with Katie Woolf

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: We know that a review of secondary education in the
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Northern Territory is going to be conducted by Deloitte Access Economics.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: It is expected to identify ways to improve student engagement
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: and outcomes, with the final report expected to be complete
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: in May next year. Joining us on the line to
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: talk a little bit further about this is Michelle Air
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  Speaker 1: is the Australian Education Union's Northern Territory Branch President. Good
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  Speaker 1: morning to you, Michelle.
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  Speaker 2: Good morning Katie. Michelle.
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  Speaker 1: Do you know a huge amount about why this review
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  Speaker 1: is being conducted at this point?
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  Speaker 2: Well, Katie, I know a little. The review is of
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  Speaker 2: secondary schools. It's of the way that secondary schools are
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: operating across the Northern Territory. That includes in towns with
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  Speaker 2: the middle school and senior school model, and then also
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  Speaker 2: our remote where a lot of kids end up going
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  Speaker 2: to boarding school and it's very rare for kids to
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  Speaker 2: go to school on community And it's around getting kids
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  Speaker 2: engaged in school and re engaging the the large contingent
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: at the moment who are just simply not engaged.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. Right, So it does sound as though you know
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  Speaker 1: that looking into well, like you've said, they're obviously looking
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  Speaker 1: at in community and kids going to boarding school, but
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  Speaker 1: also looking at secondary or middle school and high school like,
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  Speaker 1: is that the way things are done right around the
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  Speaker 1: nation in terms of the middle school and high schools
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  Speaker 1: being separated the way they are in the territory.
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  Speaker 2: No, that's quite specific to the territory around the nation.
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  Speaker 2: It's more regular to see for high schools of things
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  Speaker 2: based on your level, except in a case by case circumstances.
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  Speaker 2: The non territory is the only place that does it
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  Speaker 2: as a blanket rule.
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  Speaker 1: And what about kids starting middle school in year seven?
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  Speaker 1: Is that something that happens right around the country as well?
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  Speaker 1: Or do most of them start in that grade eight
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  Speaker 1: year level?
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  Speaker 2: Year seven is fairly standard nowadays, I believe for a
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  Speaker 2: kid to start high school. But the yeah, the middle
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  Speaker 2: school is the part that's slightly different. Yeah, that's my
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  Speaker 2: best understanding anyway.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, Now, tell us a little bit about your understanding
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  Speaker 1: of why the review is sort of being conducted as well,
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  Speaker 1: or you know why it's needed. Well, my.
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  Speaker 2: Issue is not with the review itself. I think that
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  Speaker 2: if a review can be conducted and changes can be
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  Speaker 2: made that will benefit kids and will benefit teachers, absolutely,
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  Speaker 2: go ahead conduct a review. Make the changes. However, I
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  Speaker 2: think that it is a band aid to the larger problem,
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  Speaker 2: which is that we have this funding model in the
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  Speaker 2: Northern Territory for education that actually encourages non attendance rather
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  Speaker 2: than attendance by funding on Sorry I've made a bit confusion,
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  Speaker 2: but by funding on attendance and taking resources away from
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  Speaker 2: when kids don't attend school, it actually create like stop
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  Speaker 2: schools and being places where kids are able to attend. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Right, this is something that was raised with us as
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  Speaker 1: well yesterday by Cogso Tabby Fudgen joined us on the
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  Speaker 1: line because we're talking a bit more about the payoffer
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  Speaker 1: that's obviously been put on the table and how exactly
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  Speaker 1: it's going to be funded. I know that there've been
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  Speaker 1: some concerns raised that some of that money was going
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  Speaker 1: to be taken out of the current budgets. The Chief
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  Speaker 1: Minister at pains to say that that's not going to
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  Speaker 1: be the case. But it did sort of, you know,
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  Speaker 1: reignite that discussion about the funding in the way in
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  Speaker 1: which it is modeled here in the territory.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I was listening after Vacati. I was very
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  Speaker 2: interested by what the Chief Minister had to say, it
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  Speaker 2: was the first time I'd heard that there wouldn't be
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  Speaker 2: funding required out of school budgets. In fact, what I
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  Speaker 2: have heard from my principal members is that they're being
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  Speaker 2: told to reserve a slife of their budget for this
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  Speaker 2: new pay rise and for the back pay, a considerable
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  Speaker 2: swife that's making it difficult for them to staff their
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  Speaker 2: schools next year because of the way that the school
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  Speaker 2: budgets are constructed. And again it comes back to this
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  Speaker 2: attendance based funding. There's a whole issue with it. So
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  Speaker 2: really in our language around it for using at the
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  Speaker 2: moment is we're seeing at the moment schools are funded
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  Speaker 2: for failure and we'd like to see them funded for success.
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  Speaker 2: It's a big issue and one that the AU is
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  Speaker 2: tackling had on because we unless that changes, we think
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  Speaker 2: things like this secondary review and other strategies are really
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  Speaker 2: just a band aid measure to the bigger problem.
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  Speaker 1: So Michelle, just going back to the review for a second,
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  Speaker 1: then I am keen to ask a bit more about
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  Speaker 1: you know about that funding when it comes to the pays,
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  Speaker 1: but just going back to the review, what are the
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  Speaker 1: areas that need improvement aside from that budget Aside from
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  Speaker 1: that funding, do you feel as though there are other
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  Speaker 1: areas that need to be looked into, or the education
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  Speaker 1: union fields as I need to be looked into when
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  Speaker 1: it comes to secondary schooling in the territory, Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: I think that there would be ways to improve it.
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  Speaker 2: There's a few areas there. Remote education, the kids kids
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  Speaker 2: being sent away to boarding school rather than investing in
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  Speaker 2: education on community is a huge deal. So again with
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  Speaker 2: this review, I'm all for reviews, but so long as
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  Speaker 2: they're consulting the members of community that they're going to
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  Speaker 2: be making the changes for, and the people who are
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  Speaker 2: on the ground doing educating, for the teachers and principles,
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  Speaker 2: and then for our urban and town schools there are
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  Speaker 2: changes that can be made. The best people to know
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  Speaker 2: what those changes are and how to affect change that
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  Speaker 2: will be positive are again those principles, those teachers, the
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  Speaker 2: people on the ground working with these kids day in
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  Speaker 2: day out. They know what works, so it's time to
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  Speaker 2: listen to them.
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  Speaker 1: One of the other things that's been raised with me
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  Speaker 1: recently is sort of I don't know whether they're called
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  Speaker 1: well being offices but essentially or you know, whether they're
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  Speaker 1: social offices, how exactly they're referred to within schools, but
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  Speaker 1: essentially people who are able to give kids, particularly at
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  Speaker 1: that middle school and high school age, that support when
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  Speaker 1: it comes to some the social issues that we do
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  Speaker 1: see within schools. Do we have enough of that kind
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  Speaker 1: of support within our public school system at the moment?
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  Speaker 2: Michelle, Yeah, well I'm not sure on that one, Katie.
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  Speaker 2: I'm a primary school teacher. I out of a primary school,
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  Speaker 2: and I don't know, well, I know how remote primary
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  Speaker 2: schools work. I would hazard a guess at the answer
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  Speaker 2: that is no. And also it depends on the location, right,
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  Speaker 2: So if you are in Darwin or Parmerston or Alice,
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  Speaker 2: you're more likely to have something like that than if
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  Speaker 2: you are in one of our remote locations. And some
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  Speaker 2: of these schools are extremely remote and that's where the
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  Speaker 2: kids are really not attending and the ability to provide
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  Speaker 2: those things is lower. But then also those kind of
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  Speaker 2: things are what we're talking about when it comes to
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  Speaker 2: this attendance based funding model, because they all take money,
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  Speaker 2: and so what happens is when the budget is cut
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  Speaker 2: down because kids aren't attending school, the principal has to
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  Speaker 2: look at their budget and go, what can I afford
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  Speaker 2: the first things that usually have to be cut are
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  Speaker 2: things like things around well being because the things that
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  Speaker 2: they need to focus on are educating the kids who
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  Speaker 2: are there. So that is what creates this negative feedback
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  Speaker 2: loops because you're taking away the things that could re
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  Speaker 2: engage the kids who aren't attending, which causes them to
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  Speaker 2: attend less, which causes them to get less funding, which
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  Speaker 2: causes more resources to be taken away.
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right now, Michelle, let's talk about this. You know,
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: the payoffer. Any idea how the voting's going at the
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  Speaker 1: moment with that latest payoffer?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think your guess is as good as mine
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  Speaker 2: at the moment, Katy, as I said I think to
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  Speaker 2: you last week, the AU for this one, we've put
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  Speaker 2: it out to our members. We're said it's up to
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  Speaker 2: you how you want to vote, use your voice and
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  Speaker 2: let the government know your opinion. I really hear it
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  Speaker 2: both ways from the teachers that I'm out on the
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  Speaker 2: ground with, so it yeah, could go either way.
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  Speaker 1: Well, we'll waiting here. I think when's it due back?
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  Speaker 1: Is it the twelfth?
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  Speaker 2: The twelfth, which is I believe one week from today
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  Speaker 2: on Monday.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, the next week will be interesting to hear exactly
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  Speaker 1: what comes out of that. And yeah, it's been a
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  Speaker 1: really interesting discussion over the last couple of days as
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  Speaker 1: we touched on the Chief Minister talking about where that
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  Speaker 1: funding is coming from, and also NT Cogso and one
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  Speaker 1: of the chair persons from to Mid Mid College talking
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  Speaker 1: to us as well about their concerns around if that
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  Speaker 1: funding is going to be coming from the current school budgets.
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  Speaker 1: And as you've touched on, it's a concern that's been
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  Speaker 1: raised by Principles. By the sounds of it, oh.
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely, because at this point Principles don't know how they're
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  Speaker 2: going to start their schools next year. And that isn't
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  Speaker 2: just you know, they don't know whether or not they're
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  Speaker 2: going to be able to attract people to fill the roles.
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  Speaker 2: They don't know if they're going to be able to
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  Speaker 2: afford to have the roles next year. Unless the Department
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  Speaker 2: and the ministers people in charge of money come up
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  Speaker 2: quickly and tell the Principles how these things are going
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  Speaker 2: to be funded next year, they have to sit there
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  Speaker 2: and play hopscotch with their budgets to make it all work.
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  Speaker 1: And did you think that that answer that the Chief
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  Speaker 1: Minister are given yesterday provided that clarity.
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  Speaker 2: Look, I mean it was good of her jump on
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  Speaker 2: the radio and say that. Again, that was the first
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  Speaker 2: I'd heard of it. And so what we need to
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  Speaker 2: now see is then follow through on that so people
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  Speaker 2: can say whatever they want on the radio, Right, that's
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  Speaker 2: not actually policy, that's not actually money that's going into school.
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  Speaker 2: So if they backed that up with actual action, absolutely
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  Speaker 2: that would be great. But until I see that, that's
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  Speaker 2: you know, we're still moving towards an issue here.
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  Speaker 1: I think, yeah, I think that's fair enough. You know,
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  Speaker 1: you guys need to have that certainty. The schools need
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  Speaker 1: to have that certainty so they know exactly what to
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  Speaker 1: plan for for next year, because well, we've got like
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: less than two weeks left of school.
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely, and that's the other concern, Like this is coming
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  Speaker 2: very late in the day. No matter what happens with
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: the agreement we've had. This is the third iteration of
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: this agreement we've had put to the teachers. They hang
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: hold as sorry, they held on to their wage freeze
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  Speaker 2: until the start of October. It comes down to it.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: The reason that we're in this time crunch is because
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: of the government. They could have changed their minds earlier
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: on that, and they chose to hold on to it
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: as long as possible, and now it's put us into
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: this real time crunch.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: Well, Michelle Airs, we really appreciate your time. We've spoken
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: a lot this year, and we'll probably talk to you
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: again next week as we find out what the outcome
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: is to this vote.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: I'm sure thanks for chutting.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: Good on you, Michelle. Thank you