Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Jim Allenby about Tomb of the Cybermen (2/4)

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Talks to Jim Allenby about Tomb of the Cybermen (2/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:23
  None. A hamster with a blunt pen knife
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  for doing quicker. Quicker, quicker.
• 0:40
  Come back to a hamster with a blunt pen knife with Joe Ford,
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  Hello and and myself. Jim Allenby and how How are you,
• 0:50
  Joe, sounding so sexy there. Do you know what?
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  Can I just copy and paste you? Just saying that at the
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  beginning of every episode. Get more listeners, I'm
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  marvellous. I'm having a lovely night here
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  with you. Yeah, Yeah, me too.
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  Yeah. It's nice.
• 1:04
  Nice. We're we've we've entered the
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  tomb and Bernard Holly's dead. So bless him, he managed 4
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  episodes of Clause of Axos. Yeah, I wonder.
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  I just. I've just.
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  Thought actually, I wonder if Kaftan paid the doctor the £50
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  to open the doors. Seen as though he was the one
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  who actually got it. He didn't get them open did he?
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  He he switched the electric off in them.
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  Is that right? No.
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  Yeah. Who opened the door?
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  I was no it. I think Toberman should catch
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  it. Toberman.
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  Yeah, it's Toberman. That's the one.
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  It's going to be at the end. We're sort of struggling with
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  the door right at the end. You should be going.
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  Where's my 50 pack? I could be rich.
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  What do you. I do believe you know you.
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  You may have approached the Twitterati today.
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  I did, I did, yeah. I did.
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  I and we've we've had some responses as well so.
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  I'll I'll read out a couple of comments questions.
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  So our first one is from the lovely Dave Rennie.
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  Look, we've already stroked your fucking ego.
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  Now we're doing it again. Sorry, yeah, we're not going to
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  read out his question. No, no, I'm joking.
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  Of course we are. So Dave asks.
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  Both Tomb and Webb were considered 2 Lost Classics,
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  which has fared better since their return to the archives.
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  Which I thought that was a fantastic question.
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  That was the first one we got. What do you think?
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  So I mean, I've spoken about my thoughts on on two of the
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  Cybermen and that I've always it's always been a classic for
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  me, a web of fear I had only experienced on audio and then as
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  I watched the Telusnap. Reconstruction And then the The
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  found episodes. I've oh, you didn't like them.
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  I have never this is this is really difficult.
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  I think the Web of Fear, I think the Web of Fear is a story that
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  possibly could have benefited from not having as many episodes
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  in it. I think it's, I think it's a
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  couple of episodes too long because there's a lot of running
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  around in it. I think what works is that it's
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  it's very creepy. The the the setting of being in
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  the underground. It's very clever.
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  I like that. I I I like the whole, I mean
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  it's based on the siege. It's based on the siege nearly
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  every week, isn't it? But it's very dark and it's
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  very. There's a there's a very
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  creeping atmosphere about the story and that's what I always
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  go back to when I'm re watching it.
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  But I when I do re watch it, I get a little bit bored by the
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  end of it. I think I was.
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  I was when I when I listened to the audio for the first time
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  before it got found, I I didn't. I like it very much.
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  I thought it was quite a dull story and then when I watched
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  it, I think I watched Enemy of the World first, which I thought
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  was absolutely fantastic. It was one of the best things
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  I've ever seen and it's still up there and probably my top 20.2
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  stories, Enemy of the World And then followed it with The Word
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  of Fear and I just felt it was a bit bit of a.
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  A come down you know it would be the the enemy of the world would
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  be really exciting and whether fear just wasn't I think I think
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  probably random probably prefer I think the weather fear I think
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  you're right. Yeah, I agree with you.
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  I I prefer to as to as I meant to the Web of Fear and I prefer
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  Enemy of the World to both of them.
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  I loved Enemy of the World as soundtrack.
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  So when it came back and I could just see all the performances
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  and buried in brilliant direction I was I was absolutely
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  sold. Web of Fear is outstandingly
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  directed like it is brilliantly directed.
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  It's probably the most dynamically directed 16 story,
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  and those sequences in Covent Garden episode 4 are just are
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  forgettably good. Yeah, this is more fun.
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  Yeah, we haven't touched Kaftan and Klee yet, and boy are we
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  going there in this episode. But this act, this is my bag.
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  You know, big camp villains, massive set pieces, and elusive
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  Dr. This is much more fun than the weather fear.
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  The weather Fear. It kind of runs on the spot for
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  about 3 episodes. It's it.
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  It does so with like creepy set pieces and and lots of horror.
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  I think it is very good. Absolutely.
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  I am of a laugh watching this, you know.
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  I think this is, this is I think this is a little bit more
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  accessible. I think you know you can just
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  bung this on in one night and watch it and it's you're done.
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  I think Web of fear you need to probably sit down and and and.
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  You know camp out for for an evening to to to watch that.
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  I'll give you a parallel right you said knock knock was an
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  accessible episode for a non fan.
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  Yeah I agree. It's like knock knock is 2
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  minute side men and Weber fear is like heaven sent I would keep
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  the. Show heaven sent to a non fan.
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  They'd be like what the fuck is easy just hanging around a
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  castle for an act, you know like how boring is this?
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  Yeah, it is fantastic. And they like the web affair.
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  It's brilliantly directed, you know, and it is very, very good.
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  But it yeah, I really got the fun factor to it.
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  Is it? No, not at all.
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  You've got to. Yeah, you've really got.
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  You've got to invest your time, I think, with the web affair.
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  But I do think you know fandom in general has, I think
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  probably. He's probably more highly
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  regarded than Tomb the Cybermen. So, well, what's your next
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  question then? Come on, this is Fam.
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  The My next question is from Nathan Bottomley.
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  Oh, God, I'll tell you. I'll bet you I can even guess.
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  And I haven't read these questions, and I can even guess
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  he's going on about Toadman in some way.
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  I'll bet you yes. Thereabouts.
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  Is Tomb extremely racist or just really?
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  It's just really quite racist and we've not really touched on
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  that yet. No, we haven't.
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  I don't think because we haven't seen the worst of it yet.
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  It is. It is racist.
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  A lot of 60s Doctor Who is racist and I've had this
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  dialogue with many people now does this mean I cannot sit and
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  watch it, even though it's something I don't agree with?
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  Yes I can. It's a bit of telly, and the
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  racial politics of the time were problematic.
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  Yes, other people can choose not to enjoy things because of that.
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  I am not one of those people. So yeah, it is racist.
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  It has a a a mute sort of stupid dark skinned character who is
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  sabotaged and murdered horribly. Yeah, and the villains, the
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  villains are both dark skinned, aren't they?
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  Yeah. Yeah, they're both the Shirley
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  Cookson. Did we say Cookson?
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  Shirley Cookson? She's she's she's been well
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  blacked up for one of the better word blacked up.
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  She, I think she even mentioned in in the documentary she was
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  she was actually blonde and phrase Hines didn't recognise
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  her yet he'd seen her quite often and apparently he came up
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  started flowing with her. She's like she's like he has no
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  idea I'm the producer's wife. I'll have some fun with it.
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  Good. Someone else that shouldn't
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  teach you a. Lesson and and and you know
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  you've got the actor who plays who plays Klieg.
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  He's I think he was from Cyprus from what I remember reading and
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  he if you look at what he was he was cast as kind of Middle
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  Eastern villains and. You know people have different
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  from different cultures and I think it was just one of those
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  things that right well wrongly was done at the time that people
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  were cast in these roles without thought.
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  You know they they could have they could have put some thought
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  into it. They could have.
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  You know what? How, how great would have been
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  if if the professor in this had been played by the guy who plays
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  Toberman. You know, it would have been, it
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  would, it would have been so different, you know.
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  But I just think it was, it was the landscape in general of TV
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  around that time that people that they didn't think, they
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  just didn't think. And I think I don't think it was
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  a consideration to the portion of the audience watching that
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  could be offended by this. And I don't think there was a
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  big portion of the audience watching at the time that were
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  offended by this because this is just how this was the pattern.
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  This was I ain't right. And you know what?
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  I love a load of those 70 sitcoms.
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  You know, I What are you being served?
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  And things like that. And problematic.
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  I mean, we barely started, you know, some of those and things
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  like love thy neighbour that were coming out and things like
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  that. Yeah, it was a it was a terrible
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  time for representation. It got better.
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  And guess what? Suddenly we're in a in an era of
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  Doctor Who where representation is key.
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  I mean, we're still fucking whinging.
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  Yeah, that was ever happy, are they?
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  Nobody is ever happy. I think if everybody be every
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  everybody was happy in this fandom or or any fandom, I
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  think. I think it'd be a very lovely
• 11:43
  day. But unfortunately, I don't think
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  it's going to happen anytime soon.
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  It'll never happen, no. Well, I I I don't know if we've
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  answered Nathan's question. Really.
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  I think we have and we Yes, it is.
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  Yeah, it's racist. Thanks Nathan, for spoiling our
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  funk. You're having a great time with
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  tomb and sidemen Till you came along.
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  Well, look, should we, should we get go watch sidemen tear on the
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  way out of the tomb in episode 2?
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  Yeah, I think so. I think so.
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  I think we should going. Sorry counts in me or you.
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  You can count as in I think, because did I do episode one?
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  I think I did, didn't I? Yeah, so 54321.
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  I love that music. Oh, it's fantastic.
• 12:41
  And what do you think? What do you think of the Trout
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  and title title sequence? Oh that.
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  People come on this thing saying they think he looks very sweet.
• 12:49
  I think it looks bloody sinister in it, yeah.
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  And it sort of tears for his face.
• 12:55
  The Yeah. Yeah, I don't.
• 12:58
  I don't like it as much as the the 1st Doctor's title sequence,
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  but it's my favorite. It's still, it's still good.
• 13:09
  I like it. Still very experimental.
• 13:11
  The The lack of dramatic zooms in television these days is
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  television's loss. Did you see the way the cameras
• 13:19
  zoomed in that cyber head then? Do they never do anymore, right?
• 13:23
  It's really annoying. They never do.
• 13:25
  The when someone suddenly realizes something, it's like
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  they have their face, you know, it's, you know, like the Colin
• 13:34
  Baker cliffhanger Zoom. Yeah, they stopped doing it
• 13:38
  after that because they just they got it all out of their
• 13:39
  systems in trial of Time Lords. Every, every time we used to
• 13:44
  have a disaster at work. My, my, my Co worker, who was a
• 13:46
  Doctor Who fan, used to say this is the moment when the camera
• 13:50
  zooms in on you like Colin Baker's face.
• 13:55
  I've got a game I want to play with you.
• 13:58
  Oh yeah, You know, you look interested.
• 14:02
  It's called Which Cyril Shaps. Is this you ready?
• 14:08
  I'm going to do a small quote and then you got to try and
• 14:11
  guess which one it is. All right.
• 14:13
  OK, And where is the king? That's I can't remember the name
• 14:21
  of his character, but it's he he.
• 14:23
  It's from the Android guitar, isn't it?
• 14:26
  Is he in the Android Guitar Archie Man Trio?
• 14:28
  Yeah, that's the one. Yeah, OK, what about?
• 14:34
  Oh, no, I can't think of a single line, he says in that
• 14:37
  story. OK, I'm just going to do this
• 14:38
  then. Oh, but imagine I'm wearing like
• 14:44
  a a goggles on me ears. Again, I cannot remember his
• 14:51
  character's name, but it's Planet of Spiders, isn't it?
• 14:53
  That's Professor Clegg. I pressed A Clegg.
• 14:56
  Yeah, I'm terrible. I'm terrible with names.
• 14:59
  You'll find that, and finally, this ghastly place.
• 15:04
  What will happen to us? Well, you remember his name in
• 15:10
  this. You can't get it.
• 15:14
  I can't remember his name. No, I think.
• 15:16
  Is it Mr. Viner? That's it, Mr. Viner.
• 15:18
  Yeah. Oh my God, I'm so terrible.
• 15:21
  Does he play? He's in ambassadors of death,
• 15:24
  isn't he? That's right.
• 15:25
  What's his name in that? I can't.
• 15:26
  Remember well, suffers a grizzly fate, though, doesn't he?
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  Oh. Yeah, yeah, you can always cast
• 15:33
  on Cyril Shaps through a bit of cowering and sniveling, can't
• 15:36
  you? Yeah, yeah, he we we we needed
• 15:39
  more Cyril Shaps. I think it's a shame he didn't
• 15:43
  last till the new series. I'd love to see him in the new
• 15:46
  series Cyril Shaps. Oh.
• 15:48
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, how Victoria could
• 15:54
  possibly have fought that piece of metal was a fossil is beyond
• 15:57
  me. What do you think of the Simon
• 16:01
  Mats? I mean, they're very cute.
• 16:07
  They're kind of a they serve a purpose in the story, I suppose.
• 16:12
  And I suppose the they kind of remind me a little bit of the
• 16:19
  Scarab Beatles from the the newer Mummy films.
• 16:26
  Although obviously that was a little bit more spectacular
• 16:29
  looking when they consume people.
• 16:34
  But yeah, they they they're cute.
• 16:36
  I I think they're they seem a little bit more sinister in the
• 16:40
  wheel in space. Hey Billy boy, what you doing
• 16:46
  there? I look, I think you're in
• 16:51
  France. So, like, they're, they're in
• 16:52
  the tomb right now, aren't they? There's lots of little preachers
• 16:55
  that are sort of come out and attack them night when they're
• 16:58
  sleeping. Yeah, it's it would have been
• 17:03
  nice to have seen a a swarm of them.
• 17:05
  That would have been interesting.
• 17:07
  We wouldn't have ever seen that in the 60s, but a swarm of them?
• 17:10
  Peak Cyber Map and why is it Elizabeth Slayden wrestling with
• 17:14
  one in Revengeance? I don't know what they were
• 17:19
  thinking of with those cyber mats.
• 17:20
  I mean, come on. Hey, right, we're going to give
• 17:25
  you this Hoover attachment, right?
• 17:27
  You got to suck it on your on your neck in Britain.
• 17:31
  Oh, actually, no. There's a fabulous one.
• 17:33
  In closing time, do you remember that one with the teeth?
• 17:36
  Oh yeah, it's really funny. Yeah, they're really cute.
• 17:40
  I I don't. I like them.
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  They're cute. And I I don't.
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  Did they release them as toys at all at any point?
• 17:45
  They probably should have done, you know?
• 17:47
  No, I. Think they're going to them or
• 17:49
  something, you know? Yeah, yeah.
• 17:51
  Mind you, I still think there's a great that was set in a bloody
• 17:54
  toy shop, that there were scenes in the toy shop and it had cyber
• 17:57
  mats in it. Now you do the math Man's market
• 18:01
  these cyber mats and send them out into all the kids homes and
• 18:03
  then activate them and kill all them shits all.
• 18:06
  Yeah, you've got children, haven't you?
• 18:08
  I better shut up now he's in. Bed.
• 18:12
  So sorry, that's. Why?
• 18:14
  I'm just a bit infant side, haven't I?
• 18:18
  Yeah, but that would have been something that I could have
• 18:21
  imagined Russell doing. Russell T Davis, Yes.
• 18:24
  Well, it's very. Sort of thing he had done with
• 18:26
  that story, yeah, yeah. Although he probably would have
• 18:31
  eased off on, you know, the child children being killed.
• 18:35
  So it's true. Moffett don't care.
• 18:37
  He drags them all out of their graves and yeah, you know.
• 18:40
  Yeah. Jim, please don't burn me.
• 18:43
  Please. Oh, look.
• 18:47
  There you go. This is pizza or shaps.
• 18:48
  Look. Oh, he looks very perturbed.
• 18:52
  Oh, this fellow with the American accent as well.
• 18:56
  Is he an American? I don't think the actors with an
• 19:02
  accent like that, although I have nicked his line quite a few
• 19:06
  times. I've sort of walked in and go
• 19:07
  Sam, fellas gone and bowed up the lat but.
• 19:15
  They're they're big characters, aren't they?
• 19:17
  They're quite fun to be around. Yeah, they are, they are.
• 19:20
  And they're all very distinct as well.
• 19:22
  You kind of, you know each one. I mean, some of them are more
• 19:26
  memorable than others. You know, But yeah, they're all
• 19:32
  very they're all very distinct characters, and the story
• 19:39
  definitely tells you what they're about.
• 19:42
  You know, as soon as soon as they're introduced, they've kind
• 19:46
  of all got a reason to be there, haven't they?
• 19:50
  Hopper's the one that brought them.
• 19:53
  Oh God, what's his name? The professor.
• 19:55
  He's obviously there to excavate it.
• 19:57
  Violence. The scientist, you know, the two
• 20:00
  people that are funding it, that just happened to look extremely
• 20:02
  sinister, Surprise, surprise, are the villains of the piece.
• 20:09
  Do you think? Do you think Kafkaan and Ligua
• 20:12
  in a relationship? Do you think?
• 20:14
  Oh, it is logical, Jim. I can't believe that works with
• 20:21
  Your Neighbours and Star Trek Reference.
• 20:26
  Yeah. I don't want to think about it
• 20:28
  though, but probably, yeah. It was a long old rocket trip,
• 20:32
  you know, to to tell us. You can imagine sitting, sitting
• 20:37
  in the big old house somewhere. Caftan and Kleek have walked
• 20:42
  straight from the Graham Williams era.
• 20:46
  Tom Baker and Lyla Ward visited them last week, and now they're
• 20:49
  with Trout and Heights and Watling.
• 20:53
  Man, they are somewhere way over the atmosphere.
• 21:00
  There's a there's a big finish series in that somewhere in the
• 21:03
  Captain and Cleek. And it was they did, they did
• 21:06
  the Captain Hopper adventures, didn't they, after this.
• 21:09
  So they got a proper American in for that.
• 21:11
  Obviously they didn't. They didn't use the same actor
• 21:13
  then for for Hopper. I don't think he's around
• 21:16
  anymore, I suppose. That's the way Kaftan and Klieg
• 21:21
  do their evil plotting, sort of within the earsight of everybody
• 21:25
  Toberman. You will be discreet, you know,
• 21:28
  and not tell them that you are evil.
• 21:32
  And even Toberman, he's, he stood there in the background
• 21:34
  kind of grinning. You know when the when they're
• 21:38
  discussing about the sabotage of the rocket ship, it's like,
• 21:41
  yeah, there's no not subtle. All Cath that has to do is say a
• 21:45
  few sort of logical sums and Cle gets a hard on straight away.
• 21:49
  She's like I know how to push your buttons.
• 21:52
  The ratio, the circumference of a circle to its diameter by the
• 21:57
  Greek and the pie. Right.
• 22:00
  Look, the Doctor press the button.
• 22:02
  Yeah, he's. He's, yeah.
• 22:05
  What's he? I've never kind of looked at it
• 22:08
  in that way. What's he playing at, you know?
• 22:12
  Is he? Is he trying to teach them a
• 22:13
  lesson? Oh, that's an interesting
• 22:17
  notion. He's the moral arbiter of the
• 22:20
  universe now, don't you? Don't let your curiosity get
• 22:23
  ahead of you, you know, because you might get bit.
• 22:26
  Yeah. You know you know you kind of
• 22:28
  when you when you're watching these stories, when you're
• 22:31
  younger, you kind of you watch them and you don't see the
• 22:37
  little subtle things you just see, oh wow, they're going into
• 22:41
  the tomb of the Cybermen. There's a Cybermen there.
• 22:43
  And it's all exciting. You don't you don't kind of see
• 22:46
  these little little subtle things.
• 22:49
  And so it's kind of it's I always find that there's new
• 22:55
  things that I'm finding, you know, the now I'm a an old
• 22:58
  person. You know, I kind of.
• 23:01
  I see things Oh, younger than. Me.
• 23:06
  You're rude. GIF if you're an old person.
• 23:10
  I'm fucking ancient. Sorry.
• 23:13
  Sorry. Continue.
• 23:14
  Yeah. Well you you can't.
• 23:15
  You see these things the more you watch them and it you know
• 23:19
  that's why I was find it so fascinating because I can.
• 23:21
  I can just put on a story like this and it can just be on in
• 23:24
  the background. I've seen it that many times
• 23:26
  before, but sometimes when you really watch it, you you spot
• 23:31
  these things that you've never seen before.
• 23:33
  And even now, discussing it with you, I'm seeing that kind of
• 23:38
  that really kind of sinister edge to the second Doctor.
• 23:43
  It is interesting as well because it does show a very
• 23:45
  paternal. Feeling towards Victoria there,
• 23:49
  he says like, oh, well, I'm not going down there, then if
• 23:51
  Toberman's staying here, so he knows he, I think, one, he knows
• 23:55
  that Cleek is the villain. Like he says that before the end
• 23:58
  of episode two was like, you know, you're clearly demented
• 24:02
  and I don't think Kaftan is particularly, you know, holding
• 24:06
  her own in the, you know, pretending that she's good
• 24:09
  steaks. And Toberman's clearly her, you
• 24:13
  know, menacing henchman. So he's like basically I I go
• 24:18
  down there if you're leaving here because I'm not leaving her
• 24:20
  in danger, which is very sweet. So he's kind of got layers.
• 24:28
  Oh yeah, and. At the same time, he's playing
• 24:31
  up the comedy with Jamie as well.
• 24:33
  Yeah, so. Who wants to go down there?
• 24:34
  And Jamie's, like, put your hand up if you don't want to go.
• 24:37
  Not you, Jamie. All right.
• 24:38
  You're going down there. I love those two.
• 24:42
  I I I've always said if there was a Doctor and Companion that
• 24:46
  I could go out for a pint with, it'd be the 2nd Doctor and Jamie
• 24:50
  it. Is the ultimate doctor bromance,
• 24:55
  isn't it? Yeah, it is.
• 24:57
  I mean all those, you know, I'll say all those years of the
• 25:01
  doctrine of female companion that came kind of came after it,
• 25:04
  I suppose, really. But these two were just I'd,
• 25:08
  I'd. I'd really like to see something
• 25:11
  like this done again in Doctor Who with a with a male Doctor
• 25:15
  and A and a male companion. I think I.
• 25:18
  Think they touched on it with once it's settled down with the
• 25:22
  11th Doctor and Rory, I thought there was a few moments it was
• 25:25
  nowhere near as effective. Well, you know what's clear
• 25:27
  about this is it is a bromance, right?
• 25:29
  But there's nothing very masculine about either.
• 25:32
  Or Fraser Hines. They're like a pair of fucking
• 25:35
  kids and whenever in in danger they grab hold of each other
• 25:39
  like oh God, you know, not like heroes do now where they're sort
• 25:44
  of very masculine, you know, and I'm the doxa constellation of
• 25:50
  and all this bullshit, you know, Patrick Chowder just goes, Oh my
• 25:54
  word, which is probably what we would all do.
• 25:59
  Oh yeah. But then is that, is that kind
• 26:03
  of all put on from the Doctor? You know, is that kind of does
• 26:08
  he, does he kind of project himself as being a little bit,
• 26:13
  you know, childlike? To maybe to trick people.
• 26:19
  I don't know. I don't know this.
• 26:21
  Seinhardt said that he's a very elusive Dr. and I think we'll
• 26:24
  never get those answers because he shows all those different
• 26:27
  shapes like, well, which one are you?
• 26:29
  You know? Are you the bumbling fool that
• 26:31
  sort of trips into a room and accidentally stops the villains
• 26:36
  plan? Or are you a dastardly sort of
• 26:38
  mastermind who's planned out the whole thing?
• 26:42
  Maybe that's the fun, and he's just so much fun to watch as
• 26:44
  well he is. Oh, Viola's going to die soon.
• 26:53
  We've we've peaked and snivel now.
• 26:54
  She might say something that's going to stun you.
• 26:58
  Rigid. Now then, because I think
• 27:00
  actually this scene in a minute is Victoria's best.
• 27:03
  It's her best scene in the entire run until we get to Fury
• 27:06
  from the deep, when she has some great characters where she picks
• 27:08
  up that bloody gun and takes out the side.
• 27:11
  Yeah. And again it's kind of it's it's
• 27:16
  this, you know this is a girl who who who shouldn't be there.
• 27:19
  And she doesn't barely comprehend what's going what's
• 27:22
  going on around her. You know she's been dragged from
• 27:26
  the Victorian era to to scaro and now to tell us and she's
• 27:32
  just, yeah, I I agree with you. I agree with you.
• 27:37
  She I think on the odd occasion she can have a bit of agency.
• 27:42
  You know, in a minute. Showing put on another kaftan
• 27:45
  shit, is she? You know now, did you?
• 27:48
  I think if she was you better. Open it up again, haven't you?
• 27:50
  You know, yeah, she's very, I think.
• 27:55
  I think if she was cornered, you won't want to, you know, if she
• 27:58
  was cornered and she had to fight a way out or something, I
• 28:01
  think she would fight a way out or something, no?
• 28:05
  It with her claws, Yeah. Oh, my word.
• 28:08
  Oh, here we go. What's going on here?
• 28:11
  This set. Is amazing.
• 28:15
  It's stunning isn't it And and you never you never get the
• 28:20
  sense that it's going from studio to film.
• 28:26
  You always feel like they're there again and and that as
• 28:30
  well, that kind of that teasing of of them coming out and then
• 28:35
  they get refrozen again before they can come out.
• 28:38
  That's I love, you know, that's so clever.
• 28:41
  And, like, it's really like, I was just counting there.
• 28:46
  There's only 8 Cybermen there. Oh, it's not like it's a vast
• 28:51
  army, But for some reason, it just feels epic.
• 28:55
  It feels like a vast set in a massive space.
• 28:59
  In my head there's just countless other, you know, cyber
• 29:05
  tombs. Yeah, the whole army down here
• 29:08
  ready to come up. That's the magic of Doctor Who
• 29:10
  in it can make 8 extras, like an army.
• 29:12
  Oh yeah, yeah. And I think as well it's the
• 29:14
  height as well. I think if you know, I think if
• 29:17
  it was all on one level it maybe wouldn't seem so impressive, but
• 29:21
  because of the height it's got, it's got the scale there that
• 29:24
  works in its favour. I'm going to suggest something
• 29:29
  now, and I don't want you to think I'm insane, but there is
• 29:32
  something sort of. Embryonic about them coming out
• 29:38
  like like they're they're being born, you know, there's
• 29:42
  something really sinister about it.
• 29:43
  It's very slow the way they come through and they're sort of sort
• 29:47
  of feeling their way into the. World.
• 29:50
  It's not the way robots behave, like it's no.
• 29:53
  It's alien and it's a bit weird. And this is, This is why
• 29:56
  they're, I was thinking about this earlier on today.
• 30:00
  And I think they are the these Cybermen and the, you know, the
• 30:04
  similar ones in the moon base. They're my, I think they're my
• 30:08
  favorite Cybermen, very close, you know, very close to the the
• 30:13
  10th planet Cybermen as we said before.
• 30:16
  But these ones, these are kind of like, yeah, slow, silent
• 30:20
  killers. You know, these are the, you
• 30:22
  know, there's no, there's no stomping.
• 30:24
  There's no, you know, they're there waiting in the shadows for
• 30:29
  you. And I think, I don't know if
• 30:31
  they could have, they could have kept the Cybermen like that
• 30:34
  forever because I think it it works because of of the era and
• 30:40
  it's black and white and it's you know, dark and but they are,
• 30:45
  I think they're my favorite Cybermen.
• 30:47
  I think they lost something a little bit in the wheel in
• 30:50
  space. Yeah.
• 30:52
  And I I I think they'll do something interesting in the
• 30:54
  invasion by making them experience emotions.
• 30:57
  That one is standing the sewers screaming his head off.
• 30:59
  That's kind of scary. But then after that, the revenge
• 31:04
  ones are just a joke. And then they're just kind of
• 31:07
  stormtroopers after that, aren't they they?
• 31:09
  They are like a powerful force, like a military force in Earth
• 31:14
  shock. But then after that, they're
• 31:15
  just sort of action robots, aren't they?
• 31:18
  Yeah, Yeah, I do like the I like the 80s Cybermen for very
• 31:22
  different reasons, but they're not.
• 31:25
  They're not the same. I think, you know, I think they
• 31:30
  lose. I mean I I never get a sense
• 31:32
  that in in the invasion. I never get the sense that
• 31:35
  they're in in control or they're in command.
• 31:38
  They're just kind of being used as a bit, you know, like a an
• 31:42
  army really. Whereas you've got the Cyber
• 31:44
  Planner and you've got Tobias Spawn and but they just seem to
• 31:48
  be like the the soldiers. Whereas these stories, the moon
• 31:55
  basins to the Cybermen, they're very much, they're very much in
• 32:00
  control. They are, they are in charge.
• 32:05
  The stories. The stories about them.
• 32:08
  They've got the best voices as well, haven't they?
• 32:10
  I like that one in the Moon base and sits there going.
• 32:12
  Clever. Clever, yeah.
• 32:17
  They could be impressed as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah, well as well.
• 32:22
  Do you know, like, again, call me mad.
• 32:24
  I feel as if they were designed. And the Cybermen were absolutely
• 32:29
  designed to be a black and white monster, right?
• 32:32
  So they look amazing when you put them on the moon, you know,
• 32:36
  and then the moon, and then they're kind of shiny and
• 32:40
  silvery. And those sequences on film are
• 32:42
  incredible. They look amazing in this coming
• 32:45
  out of the tomb and in these sets you suddenly put them in
• 32:49
  colour in someone like Revenge of the Cybermen and they look
• 32:52
  like sheet robots. Yeah, yeah.
• 32:55
  And the moments where they really work in the 80s, it's
• 32:59
  when it's basically shot in black and white.
• 33:01
  You've got them down in the caves, you know, on the
• 33:04
  freighter, Sorry. And it's really dark.
• 33:06
  And they're just sort of, you know, something sort of
• 33:09
  unknowable coming out of the darkness or in the sewers in
• 33:13
  Attack of the Cybermen, you know?
• 33:15
  And the second you sort of put them out on location, like like
• 33:18
  silver Nemesis, they do, they just look like a bunch of sort
• 33:21
  of fancy dress robots. Yeah, they do.
• 33:25
  And I I mean, I I enjoy Sylvan Emesis.
• 33:30
  I've got a lot of love for Sylvan Emesis, as bad as what it
• 33:33
  is. But the side and then are not
• 33:35
  social. Workers.
• 33:41
  I really. I love it.
• 33:42
  But it's terrible. I love it.
• 33:43
  Oh, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's it's so bad.
• 33:47
  It's good. Sylvan Emesis.
• 33:49
  Jim, all things shall soon be mine.
• 33:53
  I'm past, present, and future man, Lady.
• 33:56
  Painful. Should have been in this.
• 33:57
  Should have been amazing. Oh, Can you imagine?
• 34:00
  Oh, look at. That.
• 34:02
  Oh, yeah, that. She's there.
• 34:03
  That's a good name, you know. It's what?
• 34:06
  Sorry. That's a good angle, yeah.
• 34:08
  He's gone to the same school of shooting as Sarah Jane from
• 34:11
  Pyramids and Mars. Straight on the target and the
• 34:15
  the cyber maps, they look very disturbing underneath.
• 34:19
  I don't know. Obviously it's all looks like.
• 34:23
  Fuzzy felt It doesn't look like fuzzy felt, yeah.
• 34:28
  Joe was terrible though. It's like she's just like she's
• 34:30
  just had a showdown with kaftan. She shot the side mat.
• 34:34
  We're like, yes, here we go. We've got our, you know, on our
• 34:37
  Blackman style character hard hit it and then she just goes
• 34:41
  Captain Hopper. Oh, Victoria, there.
• 34:45
  Yeah, yeah. Oh, here we go.
• 34:49
  Do you think it was a fabulous move for them to hire these tall
• 34:52
  actors so they tower over the the human characters?
• 34:57
  Yeah, I think so. I think it definitely.
• 35:02
  It makes them look impressive. Yeah.
• 35:09
  I don't know why the control has been crouched down.
• 35:13
  Well, it was frozen, so they probably didn't figure it, you
• 35:15
  know, it might be a bit stiff now.
• 35:20
  Actually, talking of being stiff, you know how much met a
• 35:22
  guy, right? Yeah, it's only like a one night
• 35:24
  thing. Yeah.
• 35:25
  Will you see that helmet? That the cyber, yeah, are we
• 35:30
  going? With this, well, I won't join
• 35:32
  the dots for you. And I was like, it's just like
• 35:35
  the cyber controller from with the firemen.
• 35:39
  He was not impressed. He said go on, put it on.
• 35:43
  I went no, I've got more fun things to do.
• 35:49
  They sprayed lots of ice on his face.
• 35:50
  Nice. Look how tall he is, though.
• 35:56
  I mean, is this Michael? Was it Michael Kill?
• 35:59
  Kill Gareth. Yeah, Got a few pounds before he
• 36:02
  came back in. Attack on the sidemen, you know.
• 36:04
  Yeah. I was going to ask what?
• 36:06
  What did you think about them bringing him back in?
• 36:08
  Attack on the Cybermen? Because.
• 36:10
  I'll just say there's a reason why they don't put me in a side
• 36:12
  man costuming. Not too, because I look very
• 36:15
  like that Michael kill Gareth in Attack of the Cybermen.
• 36:21
  Another thing that's effective there, though, is none of them
• 36:23
  talk for ages and the music drops away and it's completely
• 36:26
  silent and they're just standing there with their blank faces
• 36:32
  and, you know, pleats doing this, Oh yeah, oh, I venerate
• 36:35
  you or whatever it says. And then the fella just grabbed
• 36:38
  his arm. It's in absolute agony, isn't
• 36:41
  it? Yeah.
• 36:42
  And again, that's that's the kind of the they're just slow
• 36:45
  and silent and they're they're just sinister.
• 36:48
  They look at you, they just look at you.
• 36:50
  There's no, you know, Delude deludes and all that.
• 36:53
  You know, it's all what was. That all about delete.
• 36:57
  We're going to give them a cats phrase catch phrase for the
• 37:00
  kids. And we'll brand them Cyprus
• 37:03
  Industries, you know. Listen, before we add Episode 2,
• 37:09
  would you please just say the last line of the episode in your
• 37:12
  best cyber voice? What was the last line again?
• 37:17
  You belong to us. You shall us like us in a cyber
• 37:21
  voice. Yes, please.
• 37:26
  You belong to us. You will be like us.
• 37:33
  A bar for us, right? You know, they said that these
• 37:36
  five men sound a bit like like Italian men.
• 37:39
  You know you belong to us. You shall be like us.
• 37:45
  Your impression certainly does.