Latest / Mud & Rib Podcast / Stop Fighting the Same Fight, Marriage Mini Series – Part 1: Communication & Conflict in Marriage

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Stop Fighting the Same Fight, Marriage Mini Series – Part 1: Communication & Conflict in Marriage · Mud & Rib Podcast

• 0:00
  [music]
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  SPEAKER_00: Hi, everybody.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Mud and Rib Podcast.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: We are about love, life,
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  SPEAKER_00: and leadership,
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  SPEAKER_00: and we are starting a four-week mini-series on marriage,
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  SPEAKER_00: and we are really excited to talk about this.
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  SPEAKER_00: We did a poll and asked some of you what topics you want Yeah, for sure.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: So we just finished a series that we actually use in coaching.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: Firelighting.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well digging and white wall washing or wall white washing that each of those rob us
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  SPEAKER_01: of connecting.
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  SPEAKER_01: And so it would be really good to go back and look at that and think,
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  SPEAKER_01: okay, what are some of the things that I do, the urges within me?
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  SPEAKER_01: Because all of us have this pool of brokenness in our lives.
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  SPEAKER_01: And when we're aware of it,
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  SPEAKER_01: and sometimes it's attached to, I think, our temperament or behavior patterns.
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  SPEAKER_01: And so if we're aware of that,
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  SPEAKER_01: it can help us in our connecting with husband and wife and our communication
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  SPEAKER_01: and really with everything.
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  SPEAKER_01: And so in the side-by-side that we did, what episode was that?
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  SPEAKER_00: That was episodes... Three and
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  SPEAKER_01: four, I think.
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  SPEAKER_00: Three and four, yes.
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  SPEAKER_01: Back then we talked a lot about the things that impact...
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: Are working together in the oneness we already have, but also that you have oneness in Christ.
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  SPEAKER_01: If you and your spouse are committed in a covenant relationship with God through
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  SPEAKER_01: a relationship with Jesus Christ, then you have oneness.
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  SPEAKER_01: But what you have to do is start acting like it.
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  SPEAKER_01: And there's a lot of things we have to learn and fail forward with.
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  SPEAKER_01: And extend grace to one another and be aware of our differences.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: And we talked about like we use the DIS test and we always give a shout out
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  SPEAKER_01: to Phil Reynolds who taught us that.
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  SPEAKER_01: Some know the Enneagram or Myers-Briggs.
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  SPEAKER_01: But all of those things just in our differences help us because some of us are question askers.
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  SPEAKER_01: Some of us are more tellers.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
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  SPEAKER_01: Some of us are risk assessors and some of us are risk takers.
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  SPEAKER_01: And so if you get a risk taker and a risk assessor together,
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  SPEAKER_01: That could be a lot of conflict that you have to communicate,
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  SPEAKER_01: work through to get to really working together.
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  SPEAKER_01: So that's important as well.
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  SPEAKER_01: I think we even talked about love languages back then, didn't we?
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  SPEAKER_01: A little bit, yes.
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  SPEAKER_01: So there is a lot that we can learn together to communicate effectively
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  SPEAKER_01: in our marriage so that we can move to a place of collaborating.
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  SPEAKER_01: So the connecting is, okay, we are one in Christ in covenant.
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  SPEAKER_01: And we're going to begin to act that out.
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  SPEAKER_01: And communication is a key piece of it.
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  SPEAKER_01: And then how do we live marriage on mission?
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  SPEAKER_01: So those are kind of the important principles that we're going to be talking about
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  SPEAKER_01: in this series.
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  SPEAKER_01: And of course, it's holistic, body, soul, and spirit.
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  SPEAKER_01: So we'll be diving into some of those things.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so we want to just say upfront,
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  SPEAKER_00: there's no way we could cover every possible scenario that can happen
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  SPEAKER_00: in someone's life.
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  SPEAKER_00: And we do offer coaching outside of our podcast.
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  SPEAKER_00: If you feel like that you need something more than what you're getting just from the podcast.
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  SPEAKER_00: That's why it's called a mini marriage series.
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  SPEAKER_00: One thing I want to say as we kind of launch into this is...
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  SPEAKER_00: We always say that we want to change the narrative that marriage doesn't have to be hard.
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  SPEAKER_00: And someone that I know said, I don't think that's a fair statement because marriage is hard.
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  SPEAKER_00: And yes, marriage is or can be hard.
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  SPEAKER_00: But one of the things that I believe wholeheartedly as to why marriage is hard for
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  SPEAKER_00: so many people is Is being married will refine you.
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  SPEAKER_00: It makes you be faced with yourself and your own selfish ways.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so if you what's really hard is not necessarily marriage,
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  SPEAKER_00: I think it's dying to our own selfish ways and really being willing to die
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  SPEAKER_00: to certain things in order to have a good marriage.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so the longer we've been married and the more we've died
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  SPEAKER_00: to our own selfish ways, and I don't feel like dying to certain things.
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  SPEAKER_00: Has caused me to not be myself or miss out on who I actually am and God created me to be.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's actually made our marriage better and I'm not missing out on anything.
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  SPEAKER_00: So I think sometimes people think dying to self might mean I can't be who I am.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, not experiencing God's pleasure in the midst of it
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  SPEAKER_01: because somehow you're robbing yourself.
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  SPEAKER_01: And when I think about people saying, well, this is hard in us.
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  SPEAKER_01: Right.
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  SPEAKER_01: Right.
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  SPEAKER_01: Right.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I think that when we choose,
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  SPEAKER_01: like Psalms,
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  SPEAKER_01: I think it's Psalms 37.4,
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  SPEAKER_01: I believe,
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  SPEAKER_01: says, Delight yourself in the Lord and He'll give you desires of your heart.
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  SPEAKER_01: And so if we will learn to walk with God and experience His pleasure
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  SPEAKER_01: in our obedience and our trusting Him and our dying to self,
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  SPEAKER_01: as you're talking about, I think our desires become His desires.
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  SPEAKER_01: And it just brings joy.
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  SPEAKER_01: And so there's joy that comes with it.
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  SPEAKER_01: And part of the reason why it's hard is because we're hard-headed.
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  SPEAKER_01: I can say that.
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm hard-headed for sure.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, that's how we started out in our marriage.
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  SPEAKER_01: And one of the things we're going to talk about today is what were some of
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  SPEAKER_01: the fights that we started out with that are really not such an issue today because
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  SPEAKER_01: a lot of them were childish and built upon hard-headedness.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so we're not perfect, and it's not that we don't fight.
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  SPEAKER_01: Oh, no, I'm perfect.
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  SPEAKER_01: You're broken and scarred.
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  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, I am scarred, but I'm redeemed.
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  SPEAKER_00: But the point of showing that 35 years of marriage,
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  SPEAKER_00: things are much better and enjoyable is to show that this is where you can also be
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  SPEAKER_00: if you're willing to do these things.
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  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah,
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  SPEAKER_00: one of the questions someone asked in our poll is,
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  SPEAKER_00: What are some of the things that you fight about?
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  SPEAKER_00: So we're going to talk about the hardest part for us was our first year or two
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  SPEAKER_00: of marriage and some of the things that we fought about during that time.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so let's start with one of the things that we fought about related
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  SPEAKER_00: to me is I thought Guy should read my mind.
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  SPEAKER_00: So I'll give you a few examples.
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  SPEAKER_00: I liked things quite a bit more tidy in our house than Guy did.
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to be really nice.
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  SPEAKER_01: Quite a bit more tidy.
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  SPEAKER_01: Basically, she said Guy was a slob in some ways when we started out and I had it all together.
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  SPEAKER_00: He wasn't unclean.
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  SPEAKER_01: No.
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  SPEAKER_00: He was just messy.
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  SPEAKER_00: Very messy.
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  SPEAKER_00: Did not mind things laying around.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so I would look around the house and say...
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  SPEAKER_00: God, why does he not see that this place is a flipping disaster and not do anything?
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  SPEAKER_00: And he would say, well, what do you want me to do?
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  SPEAKER_00: I want you to read my mind.
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  SPEAKER_00: Basically, I mean, I wasn't saying outright, I want you to read my mind.
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  SPEAKER_00: But I was basically saying, I want you to read my mind.
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  SPEAKER_00: If you don't know, that's what I would say.
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  SPEAKER_00: If you don't know, I'm not telling you.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_01: And with that,
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  SPEAKER_01: I think not all women, ladies, don't come sending me hate mail or coming after me.
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  SPEAKER_01: But I think that women say, if he loved me, he would know.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, bro, I don't know because love looks different to different people.
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  SPEAKER_01: And to think that everybody knows love the way you see love.
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  SPEAKER_01: Is really foolish.
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  SPEAKER_00: Well, I don't even think that goes to the question of, did you love me or not?
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  SPEAKER_00: You loved me.
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  SPEAKER_00: It was just, we were different.
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  SPEAKER_01: But it's still around the reading of the minds and thinking that you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: and that gets you in trouble.
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  SPEAKER_01: Building those kind of expectations will create god-awful conflict.
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  SPEAKER_00: Oh, and it was awful.
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  SPEAKER_00: Back then, before there was internet, I read it.
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  SPEAKER_00: I read a book called Men Don't Read Minds, They Read Newspapers.
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  SPEAKER_00: Now it would be Men Don't Read Minds, They Read the Internet.
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  SPEAKER_00: But it really helped me.
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  SPEAKER_00: And we're going to talk more about assertive communication and what we had to do differently.
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  SPEAKER_00: But that was one of the things that we fought about.
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  SPEAKER_00: One of the other things is Guy trying to force change or control change in me.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, picking,
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  SPEAKER_01: really kind of picking at her in areas that I saw as immaturity and picking,
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  SPEAKER_01: agitating, just unhealthy the way I dealt with it.
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  SPEAKER_01: And it really made Kelli mad and it caused me
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  SPEAKER_01: to realize this is creating unnecessary conflict and not working.
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  SPEAKER_01: So I came to a place,
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  SPEAKER_01: a lot of this is coming to a place where You can only control you and put you under
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  SPEAKER_01: the control of Christ and the Holy Spirit.
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  SPEAKER_01: So I came to a place where I was like, okay, God, change me.
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  SPEAKER_01: I need to quit focusing on her and say,
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  SPEAKER_01: make me the man, the husband, the man you want me to be, and change me.
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  SPEAKER_01: It is amazing the difference that made in our marriage.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because no longer did I feel like you were just picking at me.
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  SPEAKER_00: I felt like you actually, that's when I actually felt like you loved me.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
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  SPEAKER_00: Because you just were accepting me for who I was.
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  SPEAKER_00: Not that you didn't say anything, but it was just not in an agitating picking.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
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  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Guy would actually say, oh, that's spiritual.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I would go totally postal.
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  SPEAKER_00: I mean, for sure.
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  SPEAKER_00: So one of the other.
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  SPEAKER_01: So my wonderful boy's charm and good looks just didn't get it done.
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  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't enough.
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  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, it wasn't enough.
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  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
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  SPEAKER_00: One of the other things for me was I lived in fear related to my past.
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  SPEAKER_00: And what I mean by that is anything Guy did that slightly resembled
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  SPEAKER_00: a past relationship that I had that was not healthy and not good,
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  SPEAKER_00: I would immediately go to the, oh, he's just like him.
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  SPEAKER_00: And that would cause terrible conflict between us because one, that's not fair.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I needed to deal with, again, this was about me dealing with my own stuff.
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  SPEAKER_00: I had to deal with my own stuff about past hurts and realize and remind myself
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  SPEAKER_00: that he is not and was not that those people that hurt me.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so that was a really big one that we fought about as well.
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  SPEAKER_01: So dealing with like filters, we're filtering people through past hurts.
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  SPEAKER_01: Hurts.
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  SPEAKER_01: Difficult, hurts, sometimes trauma, but difficulty, let's say in relationships.
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  SPEAKER_01: Maybe some would refer to certain triggers that you had,
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  SPEAKER_01: particularly because you had some rough relationships with some abusive control
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  SPEAKER_01: and manipulation, etc.
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  SPEAKER_01: And so if I did anything that you thought resembled that,
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  SPEAKER_01: you would say, oh, he's just like those other guys.
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  SPEAKER_00: One, you add the fact that you were trying to control my change.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I saw that as trying to control me, which is what had been in my past.
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  SPEAKER_00: That just created this vicious cycle for us.
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  SPEAKER_00: And praise God, we've been able to get out of that cycle.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I don't even think like that anymore.
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  SPEAKER_00: And there's so much history of just good,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know, being a good husband that I don't feel that way.
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  SPEAKER_00: But that took work.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I remember one,
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's important for us to communicate where we were as two young people.
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  SPEAKER_01: Mid-20s, 24 and 25.
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  SPEAKER_01: But our heart's desire was to grow,
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: to be changed,
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  SPEAKER_01: to be transformed by the power of the gospel,
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: by the power of the spirit, and really walk in godliness together.
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  SPEAKER_01: That was our desire.
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  SPEAKER_01: So we need to frame this in the prerequisite.
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  SPEAKER_01: We're talking two people that really wanted to walk with God.
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  SPEAKER_00: Because if you don't, this changes the whole
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: conversation.
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  SPEAKER_01: If you've got someone that wants to change and transform and move forward
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  SPEAKER_01: and grow together and someone who doesn't, that's a whole other issue.
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  SPEAKER_01: But again, the reality is all you can control is yourself.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
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  SPEAKER_01: And also when we're talking about this kind of stuff and you have these kind
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: of cycles,
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  SPEAKER_01: someone needs to be a cycle breaker in those things and choose to do
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  SPEAKER_01: the right things for the right reasons, no matter the results.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I remember...
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  SPEAKER_01: There was times where it felt like you were trying to push me away.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I would say, I'm not going anywhere.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm never going anywhere.
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  SPEAKER_01: I love you.
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  SPEAKER_01: I choose us.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I am here.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not going anywhere.
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  SPEAKER_00: And that made all the difference in the world for me because anytime,
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  SPEAKER_00: because what I would do is I,
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  SPEAKER_00: the relationships,
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: I've already said it,
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  SPEAKER_00: I was divorced twice before I was 20, 21 years old and they were very abusive.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so in my mind,
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know this,
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: but I was actually saying, you know what, he's probably going to leave you.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so he might as well leave now.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so in a lot of ways,
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  SPEAKER_00: I subconsciously was pushing you away for self-protection, trying to keep you
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  SPEAKER_00: And so when you would say things like that, I just felt like you were really committed.
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  SPEAKER_00: And over time, I began to believe that.
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  SPEAKER_00: So that goes back to those truth statements that really helped to reframe
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: and retrain the way we think about things.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: And trust does have to be built over time.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: We can talk about some principles of building trust in relationships and marriage
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: and various things with coworkers, people that we are co-laboring with, et cetera.
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  SPEAKER_00: I want to move to the next question, but one more thing.
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  SPEAKER_00: I just want to say,
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: it isn't always just a dating or marriage relationship that you can have triggers
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  SPEAKER_00: from.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: It can be from parents,
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  SPEAKER_00: a way a father raised you or a mother raised you,
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: other people that you were in relationships.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's where we do bring everything from our life into our marriage.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's true.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: There were two more.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: We worked with students when we first got married.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
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  SPEAKER_00: Adjusting to the time commitment guy had to the students
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  SPEAKER_00: and me feeling like maybe I was second best to the students.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: So let me ask you something.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: In relationship to that, what were some things that I did that helped you not feel second?
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  SPEAKER_01: Because I think that's a problem.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of people who Who almost demonstrate more passion and commitment
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: to work to others than they do to the one that's supposed to be
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: the significant covenant relationship in their life.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think some of them, we always had a date night.
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  SPEAKER_00: Still do?
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: We still do.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: And there were times that...
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: You chose to do things with me not begrudgingly and you didn't have an attitude about it.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't like you did it and then it was just a miserable time because you,
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: oh, I chose to do this just to prove something to you.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: So there were times you chose to spend time with me,
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: but also just the reaffirmation of our relationship and bringing me along
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: and valuing me in front of other people.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think that was a huge one is you always have valued me in front of other people.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: So if someone says, oh, Guy, I just said something bad about you.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: I know you didn't say that because you have never been like that.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: You've always valued me in front of other people.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so and behind the scenes, you've always valued me.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's not just in front of people.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's also in home.
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  SPEAKER_00: You value me.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's good,
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: because I think that one of the things that I've learned to do is to create
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: a culture of honor with me and you,
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: and then that culture of honor flows out to others.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: And there's something about honoring one another,
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: honoring different gifts, honoring your spouse, even honoring your children.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: Just a culture of honor is something that brings about a health in the ecosystem
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: of relationships.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and I think also when you're talking about ministry,
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: it is challenging because sometimes I think people think ministry isn't a job.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: And you don't want to, it's not, it's so complicated because it isn't a job.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: Ministry is relationships.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: But in reality,
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: if that's your primary source of your income is And or it's just the focus
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: of what God has asked us to do is to be about people.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: Then how do I not be selfish myself as a spouse and think that everything is
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: about taking something from me?
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I had some choices myself.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: I could either get involved with you so we could be together more
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: and do this together or I could choose to sit home.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: And that's there.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we could go off on-
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's a whole nother thing.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: A whole nother issue about when you bring corporation or corporate
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: into what should be spiritual family,
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: it does bring in some complications because if you're going to get paid
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: and people are paying you,
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: it does have a corporate nature to it that I think
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: in some ways can undermine biblical values.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: And make it challenging.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: One of them is how can one or both couples not shut down on each other when
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: in conflict or when they're overwhelmed and how to have a healthy discussion?
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: How can a couple not go to bed angry?
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's more than one question, but that's a great question.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: I remember and I think it was because and you'll have to correct me if I'm wrong, but I think.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: When in the early days,
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: it's weird because we're not like this anymore in our dynamic together,
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: but I would have to learn to give you space because I was always pressing for
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: an effort.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: Answer or to work through conflict when you are angry or frustrated
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: and you are like, I just need time.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so part of it is learning how to give each other space in understanding where you are.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: And if you try to handle stuff in anger,
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: whatever it is, discipline your kids, conflict, communication, anger leads to sin.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: And there's just no doubt about it.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, in your anger, do not sin.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: So if you can't let go of your anger immediately,
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: just in that time,
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: it is probably good that you give someone a little space for them to deal
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: with their anger.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I think there's multiple reasons why people shut down.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think one of them could be anger.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: For me, it was anger.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I wanted to respond in a way that would honor God.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I knew I couldn't do it because I was so angry.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so I needed space to do that.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: And now I don't feel that way because God has done a work in me.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: But the other thing I've seen in people is they shut down
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: because they don't know what to do with their emotions.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: And it may not be an emotion of anger and they may not know what to say.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: They just don't have the words to communicate their feelings or their emotions.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that in itself is a whole nother struggle when you're talking about shutting down.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so you have to find as a couple...
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: How to ask the right questions in order to diffuse and come to an agreement.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think there needs to be an agreement beforehand.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: So let's say a pattern is that one of you shuts down.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes it could be both of you, which would be really challenging.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: But one of you shuts down.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: In our case, it was me.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: There needs to be an agreement ahead of time before you're not in the middle of a fight.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: How are we going to handle these times when we get in a conflict and you need time to get away?
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it's like indicator phrases.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: This is important practices.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like when you don't want me to fix you, you will say, look, I just need you to listen.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so then I don't try to give you my fix-it.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: Because there's always like,
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: well, you just do this, this, and this, and that'll solve your problem.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: And you're like, bro, I just need you to listen to me.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: And it's very similar to that.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's very similar.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I just need some time out.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: But we agreed on that ahead of time.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like when I started noticing that you would do that
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: and I knew your intention was good, I started saying before I would share something.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: This is not something I need you to fix.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: I just need someone to talk to.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: Just vent and you don't have to fix it.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: I got it.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: What about the situation whenever it was like you needed space?
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: How did we communicate that?
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, after we would be past a fight or we realized this was a pattern,
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: we just agreed ahead of time that whenever we're in this situation,
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: and one,
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: I need you to not press me,
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: but I have to be able to say,
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: Guy, I need some space to think about this before I respond.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: Would you give me 30 minutes?
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I do want to say, this is not an endless situation.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: You have to be committed to come back and not leave your spouse hanging in a fight.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: Ideally,
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: before you go to bed,
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: because that answers the question of how can couples not go to bed angry,
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: that's a commitment to not go to bed angry.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: You have to commit to not go to bed angry.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: Just like we said, we're hard-headed in these other areas.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: There's a vindictive spirit or attitude,
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: whatever you want to say, that some of us are trying to inflict harm.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a spirit of violence, vindictive, unforgiveness.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it's damaging.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: So you are choosing,
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: honestly,
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: to side with the enemy and to undermine your marriage just
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: in those little bitty things.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: So when you shut someone down,
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: when you are silent to them because you don't,
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: and I'll be honest,
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: I remember feeling this battle within me of, I don't want to talk to him.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care if we go to bed mad.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, just wanting to go to bed angry.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: But knowing the truth is we shouldn't go to bed angry.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: And choosing to talk through things, even if it meant staying up late to do it.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's so crazy because you're so not like that now.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: No, I mean, that's just how much I've changed.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean, there are still times I can get really angry and still really want to do that.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: But it's an internal battle.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think we just have to call it what it is.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think that sometimes we are too kind about a lot of marriage problems.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: And the truth is, we need to just do what is right.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that that sounds overly simplified,
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: but it is a matter of dying to self, what is right.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean,
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: I would be so frustrated that I just almost couldn't,
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: but I knew I had to say, I want us to talk about this.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this is a lot about emotional maturity.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: So emotional health is very important in this relationship and not going
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: to bed angry and not shutting down.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because what happens is it's basically an indicator of emotional maturity
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: that you cannot stay engaged and communicate your way through that.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: Just admit it.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: That is something that a teenager or even possibly as low as a toddler does.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so we actually utilize an emotional health survey,
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: an indicator for you to evaluate yourself and your relationship on where you are
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: in emotional maturity and where you are in the growth.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: Are you a child or an infant in this?
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: Are you a maturing adult?
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: And there's layers to this.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: It takes time and working on this kind of stuff to move to a place of emotional maturity.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: And some of us, our emotional capacity is the size of a thimble.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: And you've got to get to where it's a swimming pool.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: And this is not for people to feel shame about that.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's just...
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: The longer that we don't evaluate these things and determine where we are,
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: the longer we stay in the immaturity and we can't move to maturity.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: So we have to, like we always say, becoming aware is the first step.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of it comes back to asking good questions.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll talk about that more.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: But to find out what is really going on.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: And y'all, we have to laugh more.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we just have to laugh more.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: There's sometimes we've had fights.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: And we look at each other and say, that is so stupid.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: Why are we,
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even want to rehash what was said or not said
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: because everything we just said was so dumb.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so childish and just irrelevant to our relationship, we're just moving on.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: And we will just laugh and move on.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: But a lot of times I think we just hold on to stuff.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like I said, when we were first married, I kept records wrong.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'd bring up all kinds of stuff that Guy did to prove a point of a history
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: of what he would do.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: And even if it was true, it didn't help.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so not keeping record or wrong, letting more things go and just laugh.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we have some friends we know that would fight about the color of the sky.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes we'll start arguing about something that's just so ridiculous.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll look at each other and say,
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: oh, so are we going to go, you know what, fight like so-and-so?
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's not very nice, but we do.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that's just our indicator of like, we got to move on.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: This is just not good.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: So the next question is...
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: Navigating when you see another side of your spouse,
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: when they seem like two people or have a very ugly side.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's challenging.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: And you can't force someone to be self-aware, but you can sometimes hold up a mirror.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: And just say, help me understand why you do that.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: Learning good questions in all of this is super helpful,
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: even in that kind of challenging situation.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: Have you ever observed that whenever this happened, this is your behavior?
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: Have you ever asked yourself why you do that?
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: So asking good questions.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: Now, if this is a volatile situation, then there could be, and there should be,
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: In cases sometimes where you're going to have to distance yourself from that kind of behavior.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then there becomes a question of,
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: am I codependent in this relationship that I can't distance myself and say,
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: you can't treat me that way in this instance.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm going to distance myself in this relationship till you make a commitment
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: to treat me the way I need to be treated.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: Now you can use that to manipulate people.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: But the reality is, is that you teach people how you want to be treated.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that makes me think of two things.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: One is one of my favorite questions.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: If someone were treating me that way,
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: you know, one time, sometimes they're one way and sometimes they're another.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: My question would be, if I treated you that way, how would that make you feel?
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because sometimes I think people it's no different.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: I know this sounds ridiculous, but it's no different than when one of our kids was a biter.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: And don't judge me for this, but one of our kids was a biter and would not stop.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I bit her back one day.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, she didn't know what it felt like to be bit.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: She stopped biting.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: And she stopped biting.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't recommend that for everybody, but it worked.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: This is terrible.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: People are going to think we're crazy.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: But this just makes me think about how sometimes I don't think we think
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: about how our behavior affects people.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember I did something to you one time, and it really upsets you.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: It was the first time you ever said that when I did that,
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: it made you feel like I didn't love you.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: And that really hurt me because I would never want to do that.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so sometimes I think we have to help people understand how it makes someone feel
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: when they do that.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so by asking them, how would you feel if I treated you that way?
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: Not with an ugly tone.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: It has to be a genuine,
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: like, how would, you know, you're doing this, how would you make it feel?
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: The other thing I was thinking about is, again, just goes back to asking questions.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: But sometimes these things do require more professional help.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I would try to avoid,
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's not, I wish that I could say I was just perfect at this, but I'm not.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: Try to avoid communicating.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: And anger,
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: like when you get,
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: particularly men,
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: when they get disrespected,
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: you know, they just get pissed and say, you will not treat me this way.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: And that's really not the best way to go about it,
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: even though that sometimes it may get some results, but does it get healthier?
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: It could be as simple as saying, when you do this, I feel this way.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: And moving forward, if this happens again, I'm going to take a drive around the block.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to go in the other room.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then when you feel like you can talk about it, we will.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: So that's just a way of communicating some type of boundaries.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: But it's just not healthy for me to allow that type of communication in our relationship.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: One last thing, of course, in this, and we don't want to overlook praying your guts out.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: Just praying, praying.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: If your spouse is like double minded or has like almost like duplicity
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: or almost two personalities at some times,
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: I would just really bathe them in a ton of prayer
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: before you have even these conversations.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's really good.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: One of the other ones is how do you have hard conversations and still love like Jesus does?
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we're speaking from a posture and a humility that That comes from Christ
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: in Philippians chapter 2 in the same way,
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: have the mind of Christ who in humility,
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: engaged and treated and considered others before he considered himself
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: and desired others.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: We talked a little bit about that last time.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think that if all you want to do is keep the peace,
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: then you're really not going to address these issues.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're a peacemaker, you know, then you're going to make peace where you can.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's not you can't always do that.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: But you're trying to address things, to challenge stuff with the truth, ask good questions.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: And all this stuff flows from our life in Christ.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: And Christ is our model for this.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe this would be a good time to talk about active listening and assertive communication.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: Because the next question someone had is how to communicate and listen in marriage.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so I want to just talk a little bit about this.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: Assertive communication is where it kind of goes back to what I said earlier.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: I want a guy to read my mind.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was saying things that were vague and not assertive
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: and saying really what it was that I meant and what I needed.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so an example of assertive communication would be,
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: one, you need to make sure you're asking at a time that's appropriate.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: You don't want to ask these things in the middle of a heated conversation.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: This is when someone has time, they're not focused on work or doing something else.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: But an example would be saying to Guy,
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: it would help me feel respected and appreciated if we could spend some time talking
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: over financial decisions before we commit to any expenses that are not currently
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: in our budget.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: And that's probably more something he'd say to me, not me say to him.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: But that's just an example.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: Knowing when I want to walk in the flesh or I am walking in the flesh
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: and not walking in the spirit,
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: my first response instead of saying it to you like that would be,
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: what's wrong with you?
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: Why are you spending outside the budget?
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: These are the types of things we say because they're easier and quicker.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: And we don't have to think about what we're saying.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: But when we don't think about what we're saying, The results are not very good.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and the way that you phrasing that,
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: you're putting the responsibility back on the person to communicate what
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: the heck is going on.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's important to get people to reflect upon, well, why am I doing this?
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_01: And did we agree to do this?
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: And help me understand what is going on with that.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's a good way to challenge people to think about,
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: particularly if they've agreed upon these boundaries,
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: well, why are we not doing the very things we said we would agree upon?
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: We said we'd do a budget.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: And we would operate within that budget.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: Then why are we not doing that?
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: And what I like about it is by saying it would help me feel.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's saying that and it's clear.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: I would like it if we could talk about these things before there's large expenses,
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: you know, things purchased.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: So it's addressing clearly what the issue is.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's not some passive aggressive communication.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: Saying, oh, it must be nice to buy stuff like that.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: Those are the kind of things we do instead
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: of assertively communicating what it is we need and why we need it.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that would be another good way of putting that is instead of respected,
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: you could put in there.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: If it's something around helping you feel loved,
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: it would help me feel loved if we talked about this and why we're doing this.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: Something along those lines.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: It would build trust in our relationship.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: Those types of things.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: The point of this is when you're talking about communicating and still maintaining
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: a posture of loving that person, being like Jesus, it's communicating with clarity.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's communicating assertively,
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: but I think we think of assertive communication as being direct and domineering,
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: and it's assertiveness is just clarity.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, taking initiation,
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: communicating with clarity, all of those are part of what we mean by assertive.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: We're not saying aggressive.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think we attach assertive to aggressive.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe another way would be initiative,
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: that you're taking initiative and
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I like clarity because there needs
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: to be clarity in the communication.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: What is it that I'm saying?
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: What is it that I need from you?
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: And why do I need that?
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: And how it makes me feel, not makes me feel, how I feel.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because you don't want to say it makes me feel.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody can make me feel anything.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: But how do I feel when this happens?
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: So what you just said,
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: there's a key piece in communication and moving into a place
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: of emotional maturity is recognizing I'm responsible for my behavior.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm responsible for my emotion.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: So talking about listening,
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: being an active listener,
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: just in response to the statement I just made
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: about my assertive communication was what I needed about finances.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: And as an active listener,
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: you would say,
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: if I understand what you said,
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: so you're clarifying, you're saying, here's what I think I heard you say.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: Got it.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: You would feel more respected and appreciated if we talk over financial decisions
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: before we commit to spending for things not in our budget.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: Did I hear you correctly?
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: So what do you think about that?
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, you're clarifying and communicating.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: To me, that's clarity.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this goes back to filters and things like that
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: because you might hear someone with your ears,
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: but you don't hear what they actually meant.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why this is so important because sometimes...
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: There have we've we've communicated around things.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: And let's just say maybe I've said,
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: this is what I think I hear you saying to like, no, that's really not what I meant.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so you don't get mad.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: You either recognize that maybe you didn't communicate clearly.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: Or I'm just not understanding.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so that just means we have to go at this again to try to communicate it another way.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: And it can get frustrating,
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: but if we really love the way Jesus did,
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: we will work through this until we get to the heart of what's trying
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: to be communicated.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that is the point of this,
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: is that if you want your marriage and relationship to be better,
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: you have to put in the work to communicate through these things.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know...
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's harder up front, a lot like parenting.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: You do a lot of the discipline up front and parenting up front.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: So things are easier later in the marriage.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: You got to do a lot of the work in the beginning so that things are better as time goes on.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: So the person asked, basically, how do I navigate?
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever he's going through internally.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: So the way I understand this question,
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: if I understand whoever sent this question in,
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: my spouse, he,
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: because they said he,
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: is going through in something internally,
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: and I'm assuming that they probably are not communicating that.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe there's some evidence on the outside.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: How do you think that would be helpful for a spouse to respond to that?
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: Again, this depends upon where...
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_01: Where that man is in his maturity and in his process.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because again, you cannot make people express how they feel.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: Men really struggle with that.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: But again, I would ask some good questions.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, can you share with me a little more about how you're feeling?
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: And create an environment of honor, respect, love in the best that you can.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_01: And safety, where that can be shared.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_01: And just ask them to share.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: But again, pray, pray, pray.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_01: Ask good questions.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_01: Don't force if they are like, no, I don't want to talk about that.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: But I would also encourage them after I've done all of that, I would probably encourage them.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't feel like,
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: and this is hard,
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: if you don't feel like you can talk to me, will you talk to someone else?
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: Will you talk to a respected person?
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, another brother, a counselor, someone, a therapist, someone.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: Will you talk to someone about how you feel?
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: I just want you to be able to talk about that,
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_01: particularly if you know that there's something clammed up inside that is keeping
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: a man from really functioning in who he is.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_01: And we men really tend to be stuffers and bottle stuff in,
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: but there's nothing more free than As a man to be able to know how you feel
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: and communicate it and to not be led by our emotions.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's not what we're talking about.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: As a matter of fact,
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_01: I think communicating around them and communicating them keeps them
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: from controlling us and keeps us from being like a ticking time bomb or
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: that pressure cooker that eventually blows
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: because we haven't communicated what's going on internally.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's been times that I've seen in you,
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: you know, I can tell you're wrestling with something.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I've asked you, I feel like maybe you're wrestling with something right now.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: Is it anything you want to talk about?
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of times you'll say, yeah, it's this or that.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: But there's times where you've said...
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: I am, but I don't really know what it is.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's okay.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: We need to know it's okay if you,
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: as a man, if you don't have the answer for what it is you're struggling with.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you just feel angst and bothered.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes that's just what happens.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's the reality of what happens.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: We get moody or we get a certain way.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: But for me and for you,
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think just being able to say,
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: I am, you're right, but I don't really know what it is.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sometimes it's a clearer,
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: clearer thoughts or stuff we're thinking about or circumstances that are leading
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: to this struggle emotionally.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: But there are times where I'm just like, I have no idea.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_01: And those are challenging because you're like, you feel a certain sort of way.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like anxious.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm amped.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a little bit maybe angry.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_01: Or sometimes I'm like, I really don't know.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_01: I can describe how I feel.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: But I am,
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_01: as they say these days,
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a little bit up in my feelings,
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: and just not really sure what's going on emotionally,
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: but my desire is to communicate that.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's super helpful.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: And we won't spend a lot of time on this question because I think we've kind
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_00: of covered it in what we just talked about,
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: but how to be more sensitive to her emotions and control my anger.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's really the same thing as what we just talked about.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: Even if your spouse is feeling emotional, the response is still the same.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: Asking good questions with a sensitive heart toward just genuinely wanting
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: to know what is going on with them and not pressing them to give answers is really
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: the way to go about that.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_01: though there are things about you that are more direct in your communication and
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: because of your work and In corporate with a lot of men,
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: you've learned to bullet point and be short in phrases.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of things you've learned to adjust, but there is differences in men and women.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: There's been some,
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: I can't remember who it was,
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_01: that even wrote some stuff on men are like buffaloes and women are like butterflies.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_01: And the way that you communicate, you have to hit a buffalo over the head with a four by four.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_01: And if you do that with a woman, she'll be like a butterfly and you'll kill it.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: So there is some things about being sensitive and understanding
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_01: in general how you communicate with you.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: Communicate a little more direct, but still things have to be done with sensitivity.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_01: And if you have two radically different temperaments and you have a man and a woman,
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_01: you have to take all of those things into consideration.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_01: Because in generalities,
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_01: there are some differences in our temperament,
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_01: our behavior, but also in our sexual, you know, in our sexes.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: So one more question.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then I want to talk about the last thing about what we tended to fight about
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: when we first got married,
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_00: because that's going to lead into what our next session is going to be about.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: But one person asked about basically they're saying that they tell each other everything.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_00: But where what's the,
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: kind of what where is it appropriate to be completely honest with your spouse
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_00: and maybe where you shouldn't be?
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think this is a crazy question because I've seen crazy good.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it really is.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: And it's.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: Also, you know, people say, well, I tell my wife everything.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think there does need to be absolutely authenticity,
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: accountability, vulnerability in our relationship.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm not so sure you should be telling each other everything.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to know everything from your past.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think you want to know everything from my past as far as,
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_01: you know, our sexual relationships before we came to Christ.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just I don't want to know all the details of that.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I've had couples that I coached before talk about inappropriate things
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_01: about other people around them.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, who would you want to enter into a relationship with?
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: Around the church.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_00: If I died.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you can start addressing your temptation in your mind,
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: thoughts,
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_01: past encounters,
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: some girl at the gym,
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: if you will automatically start confessing that, it will nip it in the bud.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not so sure that's the best thing to be doing with your wife.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'd rather not know.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if you'll do that with men, that's great.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm not so sure that's a good thing to be confessing to your wife.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: And what it does is if you confess your temptation,
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_01: it's almost like you're bringing your temptation into the light.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_01: You should always bring your sin into the light.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: But this deals with stuff before there is sin.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_01: So this is a really good way to basically live in accountability, vulnerability, and purity.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm not so sure I would be doing that.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_00: The only other thing I can think of that we don't communicate
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_00: with each other is things that are shared in our accountability groups.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_00: People tell me in one of my accountability groups,
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_00: I don't tell a guy what the women say, and he doesn't tell me what the guys say.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's just not honoring their confession.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: But outside of those things, we pretty much tell each other everything.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_00: But as far as those types of things that could cause the enemy to get a foothold...
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: Where my mind could go crazy thinking about things he might have been tempted about
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: and he's just confessed it and moved on and now I've made a big deal of it because
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_00: in my mind it's grown to be something bigger than it ever was.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's just not necessary.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_00: It just makes it harder.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: So the last thing that I want to talk about is the fact that we fought about sex a lot.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: So if our kids are listening, you can turn it off now because you don't want to hear this.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: Basically mom was always trying to pursue me for some love.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: No babe, that's not what it was.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: We fought a lot about sex in our early days of marriage,
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_00: probably really not just our early days,
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: probably the first 10 years of our marriage.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: A lot in the beginning, less as time went on, but there would be seasons of fighting about it.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: Initially,
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: a lot of it,
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_00: and we're going to talk at length about this in our next episode,
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: but a lot of it was around my past, things that I brought into the relationship.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to preface by saying that is a struggle that is very familiar to us and
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_00: that we are going to be talking about in our next episode about emotional connection
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: and intimacy.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_00: We're looking forward to having that conversation.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: Not an easy one because it's very vulnerable and nobody likes to talk
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_00: about their There's sex life with other people and certainly not in detail,
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_00: but just just things that we struggle with.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so we're looking forward to that session.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: So thanks for joining us with on the.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's called the Mud and Rib Podcast.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_00: Where are we?
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_00: Who am I?
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: All this talk about marriage has got me confused.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: So next time it's going to be about emotional intimacy and connection.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_00: And we are looking forward to that conversation.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_00: If you would like,
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_00: subscribe,
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_00: share our podcast with other people,
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_00: we would so appreciate it because we want more and more people to be able to listen
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_00: and hopefully find help around love life and leadership.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_00: And we appreciate you being with us.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_01: Blessings to you.
• 48:13
  [music]