Latest / Pastor Plek's Podcast / Understanding Israel's Past and Future

Transcript

Understanding Israel's Past and Future · Pastor Plek's Podcast

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: and welcome back to pastor plex podcast.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: I'm your host, pastor plec, along with pastor holland, and I'm so glad all of you are joining us from wherever you are watching.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Uh, holland just got off sabbatical.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: I know you guys have been missing him for quite a while.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Uh, that's put a cramp in a lot of our styles as far as podcasts.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: But, holland, you're back.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Glad to be back.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: How's it feel to be back?
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: Feels so great.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: I feel refreshed, energized and motivated to do many more podcasts, all right, so tell me about your sabbatical experience.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: What was that?
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: It was one month, the month of July, where I did not do any preaching or teaching or leading or hosting or anything like that, and um spent the time uh, instead resting um, reflecting, praying and spending time with family visited some other association churches.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: So I got to go see um visited some churches that have supported us at ECC as well.
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: So I was here at Wells branch one Sunday, the first Sunday.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: Then we went to huddle Bible and got to visit Taylor Bible church and then one week we were in Arizona with my wife's side of the family, um, and just went to a random church out there, so visiting other churches, praying, and I had like a couple of things.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: I was praying about three specific things.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: I was seeking some wisdom and clarity on that.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: I got to really just devote a whole month of prayer to which was really good.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: Did you get any answers?
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: Got some answers on one and I got some.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: You know next steps for the other two.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: Oh, I love next steps.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: Next steps are great, especially when they're really clear.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: That's always very.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was awesome.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: I felt like the Lord refreshed myself Any insights you want to share with us on what the Lord spoke to you.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: Not here at this time.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: I love it.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: It's top secret mystery that Holland is really wrestling with, which I can appreciate.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Okay, we're going to jump into a question that we got from a Sunday, but it had nothing to do with a Sunday morning message.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: Are you ready for the question?
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: Ready, here it is.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: Our community group has just started reading the book of Hosea this past Friday.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: In Hosea 1.4, the scripture talks about punishing Jehu for the blood of Jezreel.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: I want to know what that meant, so I started scripture hunting and read a few chapters from 1 Kings and 2 Kings.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: God told Elijah to anoint Jehu king and to punish Ahab's family.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: So Jehu reflects his justice, but his character is crafty and he doesn't choose to follow God after he accomplishes his purpose.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: But in Hosea, god is punishing Jehu for doing what he was called to do.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: I am more confused why is Gomer's first son named Jezreel?
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: All right, what do you think?
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: Great question Context in 1 Kings you meet the original Ahab Right.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: So I'm reading through 1 Kings with my oldest son right now.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: It's been really awesome.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: And Ahab is son of Omri right.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure he's son of Omri and he Omri, terrible king, Bad king, Ahab, even worse, Right Just kind of goes down as like this is the worst king Israel has ever seen.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: But doesn't Ahab repent at?
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: the end Does he?
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: I think he does repent at the end.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: Does he?
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: I think he does, I think so.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: Let me just do a quick check.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: I'm almost positive that he repents, kind of like how Manasseh repented.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: We're still in.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: We just did Elijah and the prophets of Baal, so we're a few chapters away from Ahab's repentance.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: He talks about how God says to Elijah have you seen how Ahab has humbled himself before me?
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: There you go, because he has humbled himself.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: I will not bring the disaster in his days, but in his son's days.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: I will bring the disaster on his house.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: Which is that worse?
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: Or is that so?
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: It's interesting.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: It is common for God to punish the son or descendants of a king for their sins, right, you know when?
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: that stops, whenever, punishing the sons, ezekiel, all right, I will no longer punish the sons for their father's iniquity, anyway.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: And so you see it with David losing his baby after Bathsheba.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: Yep, you see it with Solomon and saying, hey, I'm, I'm going to, yeah, I'm going to split the kingdom.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: Uh, you know from your son.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: And so you get the divide between Rehoboam and the house of Judah and Jeroboam and the house of Israel.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: And that's where Ahab comes in the house of Israel.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: Right, he sends, you know, greatly the worst king for a while, repents toward the end, um and uh, even in his repentance, though he doesn't like totally rid the idols and the statues and stuff, right, yeah, but he but he makes enough of a repentant move.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: Ahab does uh-huh that he that god like, points out to elijah yeah and so so, following that, it says the punishment will come on his descendants, right, right.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: And so then this is where the question comes in to 2 Kings, where Elijah, the Lord, through Elijah, appoints Jehu to slaughter the sons, the descendants of Ahab, to fully end his line Right.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: I love the part where he tells Elijah to prophecy and then get out of there as fast he can.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: Right, and then run, yeah.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: And so Jehu's got this divine mission to end the line of Ahab by killing all of the, you know, his whole family, specifically all the male 70 sons, right, yep.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: And so Jehu does this in the valley of Jezreel, and um and on.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: But then he goes further.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: As he's leaving Jezreel, headed to Samaria, he also encounters some other distant relatives and he kills all them as well.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: And so when it gets to Hosea 1.4, that the question brought up of, let's just read that, you have it in front of you.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: No, but I can pull it up.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: Okay, I got it.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: I got it All right.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: So the question she brought up from Hosea was it says the Lord said to him, which is Gomer Lord said to Gomer call his name Jezreel, for in just a little while I will punish the house of Jehu for the blood of Jezreel and I'll put an end to the kingdom of the house of Israel, and on that day I'll break the bow of Israel in the valley of Jezreel.
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: So the question is okay, if God's the one who told Jehu to kill Ahab's sons in Jezreel, then why is God now going to punish the house of Jehu for the blood of Jezreel?
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: Is that the question.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: That's the question, okay, because it seems like didn't Jehu just do what he was told?
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and he does.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: But we point out two things.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: One, he goes beyond that and wipes out even more people, right, yeah, so he doesn't just kill his sons.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: And then we find that Jehu kind of continues in the wickedness of Ahab, yeah, of Ahab kind of rendering all the murder not murder all the killing that he did like ineffective.
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: That was a lot of bloodshed for no change.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so in 2 Kings 10, it says that, but Jehu, verse 31,.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: Jehu was not careful to walk in the law of the Lord, the God of Israel, with all his heart.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: He did not turn from the sins of Jeroboam, which he made Israel to sin.
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: So Jeroboam was the ancestor of Ahab, you know, the one who just every single king in this line was corrupt and wicked and worshiped Baal.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: And so the idea is that Jehu, even after doing what God said, he ended the line of Ahab.
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: The point of that was that Ahab worshiped Baal, right, and then Jehu ends that line, but then continues to worship Baal.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: And we all know from Jeroboam the sin of Jeroboam, the thing that he did that was so wild is he put a cultic symbol, which was a golden calf, in Dan in the north and Beersheba in the south, and samaria.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: Um right yeah yeah, so he, he's got this north and south cultic thing because he was afraid that people would go to jerusalem to worship and then give their allegiance to judah.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: So his, his whole life was ruled by fear.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: And so then he's like, he acquiesced and he goes like this is who brought you up?
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: He said the same exact thing that Aaron said yeah Right, behold the God who brought you up out of Egypt.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: And so they prostituted themselves before um the golden calves.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: And so he violates first commandment.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: Second commandment um creates his own priesthood Right.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: Um just kind of invents his own religion Right and bale worship shocking that that would happen.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I I feel like you know, nothing changes, right.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: We all invent religions.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: They and and this was clearly wicked it was idolatrous.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: And the idolatry is the part where god's like you gotta be kidding me.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: And so all that bloodshed in jezreel was literally for nothing, because you're no different than ahab yeah, so so the problem that he's punishing, you know he says I'm going to punish the house of Jehu for the blood of Jezreel.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: So the blood of Jezreel, the slaughtering of Ahab's sons was God's command.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: But you know, either you know him going further than that and slaughtering more people, Right, him going further than that and slaughtering more people, or the fact that, despite shedding the blood of Ahab's sons and killing them, he continues the sins anyway.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: Because Elijah said the Lord has called you and Elijah is speaking for the God of Israel he's not—and he anoints him and he believes him.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: I feel like this is you know if we're going to get an application.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of times, we believe God on things that align up with our ambitions and we're like, nah, on the other stuff that doesn't, and that's hard.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: Like I want to be king.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: Sweet, I'll do the king thing I want.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: You need to follow all of God's law.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: Nah, I'm good yeah right.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: And so God is not punishing Jehu for doing what God told him to do, but rather for missing the entire point behind why God told him to do it by continuing the sins of Ahab and Jeroboam.
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: Agree with that?
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, yeah 100%.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think that.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: And so, remember, jezreel also means God scatters, yeah, and so that also became a prophetic moment, like Jezreel was a location just called Jezreel, but then the kids named that too, because each kid was supposed to be its own sermon, a walking, living sermon, so to speak.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: And so whenever these kids would grow up, we'd remember that God scatters, right, hey, there's God scatters, which eventually God would scatter his people, but then one day he would bring back his people to himself spiritually and there would be this like kind of consecration of God's people.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, so I don't.
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: I think that's sort of wild.
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you gotta also.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: You keep reading, you know okay, and call this daughter, no mercy, right.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: But then you keep reading and Down three or no that.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: Now you're in verse nine.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: The Lord said call his name, not my people, for your, not my people, I'm not your God.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: And then verse 10 and 11 are really important.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: Yet the number of children of Israel shall be like the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured or numbered.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: And in the place where it was said to them you're not my people, it shall shall be gathered together and they shall appoint for themselves one head and they shall go up from the land, for great shall be the day of Jezreel.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: So it's pointing to God's redemption that's coming.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: Jezreel means God scatters, and he will gather them back together, right.
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: So it's really and ultimately he does that through Jesus Christ he gathers together his people not only from the house of Judah and the house of Israel, but from Samaria, from the Gentiles to the ends of the earth.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: He gathers all of his elect through faith in Jesus Christ.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: Right, well, because Israel doesn't get actually gathered back, right, they just assimilate into Assyria, yeah right, and they become the Samaritans, right yeah.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: And then who Jesus one day redeems.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and he does go and preach to the lost house of Israel, which was his mission, and so they were included in that in John 4.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's only in the.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: You see, like the book of Acts is the beginning of, you know, you'll be my witnesses in Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria, right, and so Samaria, you know, including Israel, right, um, and to the ends of the earth.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: And so it's really through the preaching of the gospel and the great commission that God gathers his people, yeah, judah and Israel, samaria and the Gentiles, into one body in Christ, which.
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: I, I.
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: I do appreciate that he makes a specific calling out to Samaria, or the Samaritans, because it really does fulfill this call of prophecy of Jezreel of where he would one day bring them back.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: Because, remember how Jesus says I'm not sure if this was the Syrophoenician woman I didn't come.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: I came for the children of Israel.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: I only came for the children of Israel and or I didn't come to, yeah, I only came for the lost house of Israel, and I think that is here.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: You're seeing it here.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: They are lost and he's gathering them to himself and clearly it's a fulfillment of that prophecy.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: So whenever Jesus talks, he's specifically always referencing in like a double reference.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: There's always a connection to the old testament that he's kind of answering.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: And then, specifically, he was wanting lost people to be found.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: Uh, especially samaritans, but their history of being israel was powerful.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, nailed it all right.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: Which then gets us to is Should we talk about that again?
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: It's your podcast.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: You know, recently I've been listening to gosh.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: I got the it's like this martyrdom podcast.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: This guy is completely secular but he has done a good job on history.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: It's called Fear and Loathing in the.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: Let's see Fear and Loathing, shoot, shoot.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, fear and Loathing.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: Sorry, I'm not going to get it.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: Fear and Loathing in the New Jerusalem, and I've only made it through about an hour and 15 minutes of it.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: Okay, and it's like a two-parter, or at least two parts, and the first one's an hour 45.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: So it's I'm sorry, the first one is two hours and 15.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: So I only made it through an hour hour 45 of the first part, gotcha.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: Hour 45 of the first part, gotcha.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: and anyway he talks about the pogroms, which is like where the jews in europe were abused and murdered just on the regular, when people would just go psycho and just kill a whole neighborhood of jews because they're frustrated with the jews taking over their city or being too influential or whatever the thing was.
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: And then the big move in the 18, late 1800s, the jews started to leave europe.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: And where do you think they went?
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: Where did they go?
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: They went to palestine because their brother ishmael was kind to them.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: Muslims, yeah.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: So, which is wild, because we always think that the muslims and jews have hated each their brother.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: Ishmael was kind to them.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: Bah bah bah the Muslims.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which is wild because we always think that the Muslims and Jews have hated each other for forever.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: But actually they were sort of welcomed into Palestine by the Muslims.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: Now, at first it was just a small number of immigrants and then over time they grew and they grew and they grew and then, with dispensationalism coming on the scene in the late 1850s, really taking a height into the early 1900s, fulfilling its complete height in 1948, where Israel is then restored, kind of wild.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: And that's where you see the Jews in the two-state sort of solution that we see today, or really one-state solution now.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: But when people always say, like the Jews and the Muslims have always been fighting each other not necessarily true it was the Christians that were initially wiping them out because they were really frustrated with them trying to implement their Jewish law and doing Jewish things in Christian parts of Europe Interesting Kind of Europe.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: Interesting Kind of wild.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: So there's a fun fact for all those that are.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: Well, I know what's the latest with Israel is and how you should think about them.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: See.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: So tell me when you say you know that Israel was restored.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, To me I go.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: Modern day Israel is nothing like the Israel that we read of in the Bible, in that the Israel that we read of in the Old Testament is a covenant people bound by the old covenant, with a temple system.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: The old covenant's gone, now obsolete.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: The temple's destroyed, Right.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: So there hasn't been a restoration of old covenant Israel.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: There's been a creation of a new nation state that uses the name Israel, but you can't say really that it's the same.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: It's a restoration of what happened before.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: What if they got the temple up?
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: It's a restoration of what happened before.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: What if they got the temple up?
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: Well, it would be blasphemous, because the temple system has been eradicated and replaced by Jesus.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: So it wouldn't be the same.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: I always go back to it.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying that Israel is.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: You know, the sacrificial system is any way shape or form of God.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: It would be them trying to form their nation, however—.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: That wouldn't be a restoration, then it would be— Because now they're doing it against God, clearly clearly, but I do think it would be what is necessary for the events of Revelation to unfold.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right, and that's where we disagree, because for me, you're saying the events of Revelation, meaning that the Antichrist is going to take his seat in the temple of God.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: Right, right, abomination of desolation?
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: Yes, but you also think the abomination of desolation is going to happen in the future.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so let me say the official position of Wells Branch Community Church, I know, is a premillennial position, dispensational, it's the right one, sure, sure, sure.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: So what I'm saying here, let me make clear, is not the official position, but I'm allowed to have this position.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: Because it's a tertiary doctrine.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: We're allowed to argue this here's my in submission to the official position.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: Here's my take in that when it says the man of lawlessness is going to take his seat in the temple of God and lead a rebellion.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: Seat in the temple of God and lead a rebellion In the New Testament.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: What is the temple in the New Testament?
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: It's the church, jesus, jesus or the church, okay, sure, I'm thinking of like Ephesians, where it says that we are built up into a holy temple, right, body of Christ also, yes, body of Christ, yeah, um.
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: And in first Peter, we're like living stones, um being built up to form a spiritual temple, right, um.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: When Paul says that, um, the church is the temple of the Holy spirit, um, or he also says your body, yes, but so I mean yes, but he also says the churches.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: Okay, you want me to get some?
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: verses.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: I want some verses here now.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: Okay, hold on.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: I mean, I guess he is saying y'all are the temple, right?
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: I think we always take that as second person singular and it's probably second person plural.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so if you just go into your Bible app and type temple, you can see here Ephesians 2.21, in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, and that's talking about the church.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: Second Corinthians 616, what agreement has the temple of God with idols?
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: For we, plural, are the temple of the living God, nice, nice, as God said, I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God and they shall be my people.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: That's the new covenant promise.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: So what is the new covenant temple?
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: It's the people of God.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, therefore, when it says in Thessalonians that he'll take his seat in the temple of God, I take that to mean the temple of God as it is being referred to in the New Testament as the church.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: This is someone who's going to rise up from within the church actually, and present himself as a false Christ.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: That's what it calls him An antichrist who seeks to be worshipped by others.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow, Okay, wait, wait, wait, Slow down for the kids in the back.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: Okay, so you're saying that, what is it Revelation?
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: Where is in Revelation what chapter?
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: Where he stands up and it's the I'm talking about 2 Thessalonians, where it says let no one deceive you in any way that the day of the Lord has come Right, for that day will not come unless the rebellion comes first and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called God or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: So this is where he says there's going to be someone who claims to be God and takes their seat in the temple of God.
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: So what I think that means is he actually rises up from within the church as a false messiah who's commanding to be worshipped, because down in verse—this is 2 Thessalonians 2.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: Down in verse 9, it says the coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan, with all power and false signs and wonders and with all wicked deception.
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, so he's—the coming of the lawless one.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: That's the Greek word.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: You know the parousia, right?
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: It's compared and contrasted with the coming of Jesus, the return of Jesus.
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: This is someone who—the coming of the lawless one is someone who's really—he's saying hey, you need to worship me, I'm the true Messiah.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: I am with you, okay, like I like where you're going.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: Messiah, I am with you, okay, like I like where you're going.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: My only problem is when Paul writes this letter to the Thessalonians, the temple is still there, right, so the temple the actual, but he's no longer calling that when he when he so I just shared, you know, four different places, three or four different places in the New Testament where he says temple to refer to the people of God.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: Sure, but in this particular letter he doesn't do that, and I think that's where he's like.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: Well, you could say the same about Ephesians and 1 Corinthians or 2 Corinthians, Right.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: But if like.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: When he says we are the temple, why would he say he takes his seat in the assembly, but he goes with temple.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: He goes with temple in 2 Corinthians and Ephesians as well.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: And so does Peter in 1 Peter.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just think that that would be a— when we're talking about the man of lawlessness, the revealed, the son of destruction, who poses and exalts himself in every so-called god.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: I mean he's referring back to what Daniel 7?
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: When he stands up and that's kind of in the temple, and so it's the same sort of idea of in the temple, and so that's the part where I'm like I struggle there with him thinking that's just the people of God.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: I do think he was referencing the people of God as the new temple all the time to kind of get them to see how valuable and important they are for their gathering and for their worship and how they're gathering together equated to experiencing temple life, especially when you get to confess sin to God and take communion every week or whenever they gather.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: But I think that's where I disagree on on obviously Right.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: So I like where you're, I like the thought of that, but I have a hard time seeing that from second Thessalonians, as him not actually referring to a building in that that time, as opposed to referring to the people of God.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, hey, you've got the official position.
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: Okay, I'm just the nobody here with the different opinion.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: Well, I appreciate that.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: Well, hey, listen, I'm going to be listening more about this Israel stuff because it does come out politically of like where do you stand and do you take a Ted Cruz position, which is I learned sometime in Sunday school which no kid is learning about Israel in Sunday school.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: I'm just letting you know that right now.
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: Maybe they had a way better children's ministry where they taught eschatology and you should support Israel.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: I don't know, Maybe they did, but that just seemed odd to me.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: On his Tucker Carlson, I noticed.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: There's some new churches being planted in Austin right now who have on their website they're, you know, they have here children's ministry, sunday service times our position on Israel.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: So I'm no joke, wow, all right, hey, and it's a big deal, it's a really big deal.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: And so to some churches, absolutely Well way to go.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah and listen.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: I love Israel, I'm for them.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: I just don't know if I want to go theologically down the road that a lot of them are going.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: I'm all for Israel as far as an independent, democratic, pretty much same values that the US has, but I don't know if I want to go a theological position to like.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: Those who bless Israel will be blessed from that standpoint, although the Bible does say that, so I understand how people can get there, point, although, the Bible does say that.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: So I understand how people can get there, yeah, Understanding how people can get there, yes.
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: So we've talked about this one before.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: I want to bless Israel.
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: But Israel I believe the New Testament is clear is the people of God, the church that have been grafted in by faith in Jesus.
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: My only caveat to that is God still has a plan for Israel, which I think involves the nation state which I think one day will bring the Israel, which I think involves the nation state which I think one day will bring the temple, which then one day the man of lawless will stand and try and make everyone see that he is God, and then we won't even be there because we'll be raptured.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: But that's just my view.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: I guess we'll see.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: Hey, thanks so much for watching.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: If you'd like to send in a question, you can text us at 737-231-0605.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: We would love to hear from you, we love questions, and so we'll see you next time and from our house to yours have an awesome week.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: God bless you.