Latest / The Money Puzzle / What women need to know about super

Transcript

What women need to know about super · The Money Puzzle

0:09
Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the Australian's Money Puzzled podcast. I'm
0:13
Speaker 1: James Kirby. Welcome aboard everybody. A big question should women
0:18
Speaker 1: do superannuation differently? Because one thing we know is that
0:21
Speaker 1: their super savings are different. That is, on average, when
0:25
Speaker 1: women retire, they have up to twenty five percent less
0:28
Speaker 1: in super right than men and ten percent of women
0:31
Speaker 1: have no super at all. Now you might think this
0:34
Speaker 1: has all improved, you know, with compulsories super. Well, there's
0:37
Speaker 1: two things here. There is a cohort of women of
0:40
Speaker 1: a certain age and they're super savings. They were simply
0:44
Speaker 1: smashed basically because they missed long periods at work for
0:47
Speaker 1: a variety of reasons. And there's also a substantial population
0:51
Speaker 1: of women like post divorce for instance, who realize that
0:54
Speaker 1: their super isn't good enough at all. And look it's
0:57
Speaker 1: got better. Yeah, it's better than it used to be
0:59
Speaker 1: for women starting work today. But I think most of
1:04
Speaker 1: our listeners didn't start work today or yesterday, and it's
1:07
Speaker 1: really worth having a look at. This is an important
1:09
Speaker 1: issue and I guessed today is the head of investor
1:12
Speaker 1: behavior at nat Trade. Gemma Dale, regular on the show
1:15
Speaker 1: How Are You.
1:16
Speaker 2: Gemma, I'm well, thanks, how are you good?
1:19
Speaker 1: Thank you? So let's lay it out. First of all,
1:21
Speaker 1: I presume I've got that figure right. It's the widely
1:23
Speaker 1: quoted figure of super members counsel, et cetera. But is
1:27
Speaker 1: there anything sort of for our listeners that they should
1:30
Speaker 1: need to know about those figures, like, for instance, their
1:32
Speaker 1: median figures? Right, Median figures can often be misleading, but
1:36
Speaker 1: is that generally the picture?
1:39
Speaker 2: So I've actually gone and pulled what I believe is
1:42
Speaker 2: the latest data. It's quite out of date. One thing
1:45
Speaker 2: you should always know with SuperData is it's aggregates. It
1:49
Speaker 2: comes from all the super funds. But the ASPHA data
1:54
Speaker 2: doesn't include self managed super funds, so they're quite a
1:56
Speaker 2: sort of separate coport.
1:58
Speaker 1: So save managed super funds are low to themselves, is
2:00
Speaker 1: run by the ATL and monitored by them, et cetera.
2:02
Speaker 1: Enough run by them, but monitored by the ATL and
2:04
Speaker 1: then big super disaster.
2:06
Speaker 2: So okay, right, yeah, that's everybody else. So these are
2:09
Speaker 2: your default funds, and let's carve out as mass. RUG
2:11
Speaker 2: will talk to them, and I'll talk about everything else,
2:15
Speaker 2: all the other super funds. They're not just default funds.
2:17
Speaker 2: They're not just the ones you get from your employer.
2:19
Speaker 2: If you went to a financial advisor, you might have
2:21
Speaker 2: a retail fund, so lots of different options. But if
2:23
Speaker 2: I look at them, actually it's quite extraordinary. So they
2:28
Speaker 2: have cut these are it's June twenty twenty three are
2:31
Speaker 2: the numbers, but they've been published at the end of
2:33
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five, so as said like, they're the most
2:36
Speaker 2: up to date, but they're quite they've said, assumed seven
2:39
Speaker 2: and a half percent on average return, so you can
2:42
Speaker 2: kind of strapolate from those numbers if you wish, assuming
2:44
Speaker 2: no kind of traumatic changes. The thing that really threw
2:47
Speaker 2: me is we do know that there's a sizeable gap
2:50
Speaker 2: between men's average balances and men's median balances and women's
2:55
Speaker 2: when people reach retirement, both cohorts reach for time. It's
3:00
Speaker 2: a real worry is that under eighteens there is still
3:04
Speaker 2: a massive gap between boys under eady. It's called the
3:08
Speaker 2: Boys and Girls under eighteen. So they cut this by.
3:11
Speaker 1: Age and the gap instantly.
3:15
Speaker 2: The average balance for a male under the age of
3:18
Speaker 2: eighteen is seven six hundred and eighty seven dollars in
3:21
Speaker 2: twenty twenty three, and the average for a woman is
3:24
Speaker 2: roughly four thousand, seven hundred, so four six nine nine.
3:28
Speaker 2: I mean that's a huge gap. That's massive.
3:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, first of all, it's a big gap. But the
3:33
Speaker 1: thing that's really powerful there is all my arguments at
3:35
Speaker 1: the start about missing work, about having children or whatever
3:38
Speaker 1: over the years, it's irrelevant, right, it's so it's like instant.
3:42
Speaker 1: So well, the oder against you from the start.
3:46
Speaker 2: If we go to the median. Right, So the average
3:48
Speaker 2: can be misleading because you get a handful of huge balances.
3:51
Speaker 2: Someone got one hundred thousand dollars and throw it into
3:54
Speaker 2: super when they was seventeen for reasons I don't understand,
3:56
Speaker 2: but maybe they did three hundred and fifty dollars for
3:59
Speaker 2: a male, two hundred and twenty dollars for a FEMA.
4:03
Speaker 2: So you're already doing a thirty percent gap. Tiny balances,
4:06
Speaker 2: but at thirty percent gap, it compounds over time and
4:09
Speaker 2: as you contribute, it starts to cond So then no
4:11
Speaker 2: kind of when I've just cut through the numbers, because
4:14
Speaker 2: they're split by five year increments, we could be here
4:16
Speaker 2: all day just going through them. But let's go to
4:18
Speaker 2: thirty to thirty four, because then you're starting to reach
4:21
Speaker 2: peak child bearing age. You've had ten years in the workforce.
4:25
Speaker 2: Peak child bearing fifty five and a half thousand dollars
4:30
Speaker 2: ish average for men, forty six and a half average
4:35
Speaker 2: for women. So you are already at a twenty percent
4:38
Speaker 2: gap at thirty to thirty four years of age the
4:42
Speaker 2: median forty one versus thirty six. So again you've got
4:49
Speaker 2: these gaps and they're there and they're meaningful.
4:53
Speaker 1: Are you comfortable with the explanation, the broad brush explanation
4:56
Speaker 1: that women are un less over their lifetime super right,
5:00
Speaker 1: that's kind of like deductive or is it?
5:03
Speaker 2: It's so that's broadly correct. I mean, the vast majority
5:07
Speaker 2: of people get their superannuation from their employer and its
5:11
Speaker 2: employer contributions over time. There are always anomalous scenarios from
5:19
Speaker 2: people who make personal contributions and who do other things
5:23
Speaker 2: to build up their balance over time. The bigger normally
5:27
Speaker 2: for women is time out of the workforce. And you
5:30
Speaker 2: talked about the women who were sort of never in
5:33
Speaker 2: the paid workforce. Let's not pretend you're not working. If
5:36
Speaker 2: you're home with kids, you absolutely are, but it's not
5:39
Speaker 2: the paid work.
5:40
Speaker 1: I know, but you're not getting paid and you're not
5:42
Speaker 1: getting super exactly.
5:43
Speaker 2: But there's also the career breaks, which have two impacts.
5:46
Speaker 2: One is you're not getting superannuation unless you have a
5:49
Speaker 2: generous employer during that period. And some employers my own
5:52
Speaker 2: is included, will pay superannuation for the entire time you're
5:56
Speaker 2: on maternity leave. So that's great if you happen to
5:59
Speaker 2: work for one of those employers, you've got that break
6:02
Speaker 2: from the workforce. But also that really breaks your career trajectory. Right.
6:06
Speaker 2: We know that women after having children tend to go
6:09
Speaker 2: back part time or may just go back into roles
6:12
Speaker 2: and not get the same career opportunities they would have
6:15
Speaker 2: if they'd had an unbreaken up.
6:17
Speaker 1: Your promotion sort of propulsion is interfered with big time. Okay,
6:22
Speaker 1: just aren't structural stuff. Has anything happened that's improved the
6:27
Speaker 1: whole picture before we get into how a person can
6:29
Speaker 1: make it better for themselves, But has anything happened to
6:32
Speaker 1: improve the broader picture? I mean, everyone's got to pay
6:36
Speaker 1: twelve percent super? Now does that change? Everyone's got to
6:38
Speaker 1: pay twelve percent compulsory super, whether they like it or not.
6:40
Speaker 1: So twelve percent of your salary, folks, whether your male
6:42
Speaker 1: or female, goes into your super account, whether you want
6:45
Speaker 1: it to or not. Has that changed anything?
6:48
Speaker 2: Look, it helps, I think you know, so more is more.
6:51
Speaker 2: It doesn't close the gap necessarily. In fact, it might
6:54
Speaker 2: widen the gap. If men earn more than it actually
6:56
Speaker 2: widens the gap. But you know you're talking in absolutes
7:01
Speaker 2: to some extent. You know it was nine percent, twelve
7:04
Speaker 2: percent is better. Even if the gap is wider, it
7:08
Speaker 2: does mean that you are better off. And then at
7:11
Speaker 2: the lower end they've brought in the Low income super
7:14
Speaker 2: Tax Offset LISTO. They've had lots of variations of this
7:18
Speaker 2: with different acronyms.
7:20
Speaker 1: So this is the latest and you just explained to
7:22
Speaker 1: lists what that means. But what it means in the.
7:24
Speaker 2: End, Sure, this is a five hundred dollar or up
7:27
Speaker 2: to five hundred dollar contribution that's made to your fund
7:31
Speaker 2: if you earn less than thirty seven thousand dollars a
7:33
Speaker 2: year or up to thirty seven thousand dollars a year,
7:36
Speaker 2: and it's going to increase to eight hundred dollars if
7:39
Speaker 2: you're earning forty five thousand dollars or less. And that's
7:43
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty seven. So that's designed for those people.
7:46
Speaker 2: So one thing people should be aware of is when
7:48
Speaker 2: your super goes into your super account and that contribution
7:52
Speaker 2: is made by your employer, it's tax deductible to your employer,
7:56
Speaker 2: which means you pay fifteen cents in the dollar when
7:59
Speaker 2: it goes in you personally, the fund pays it, So
8:01
Speaker 2: this contributions tax payable. That fifteen cents in the dollar
8:05
Speaker 2: can be higher than your marginal tax, right if you're
8:07
Speaker 2: a low income earner. And so the idea of things
8:10
Speaker 2: like this list is to offset tax being paid into
8:14
Speaker 2: the fund that you wouldn't have paid if it was
8:15
Speaker 2: paid to you.
8:16
Speaker 1: So that was just eliminating an absurdity in the tax
8:19
Speaker 1: system where someone on a low income that they're super
8:23
Speaker 1: the compulsory superpart could be taxed higher than they were,
8:26
Speaker 1: which was just staft. And they've eliminated that. Well, I'm
8:28
Speaker 1: sure that's all very good. Okay, Now I want to
8:31
Speaker 1: ask you a couple of questions. And I've been sort
8:33
Speaker 1: of brewing on inside super itself, Right inside Super itself,
8:38
Speaker 1: all those menus that people choose from in terms of
8:40
Speaker 1: you know, conservative, balanced or whatever, growth or an SMSs.
8:44
Speaker 1: But we'll keep it for a big super for the moment,
8:46
Speaker 1: because there might at least be some stats there. Do
8:48
Speaker 1: women make different decisions in relation to super saving and
8:53
Speaker 1: is that relevant to the gap.
8:55
Speaker 2: So that's a really good question. We're talking averages and
8:58
Speaker 2: then we talk everything else. So on average people stay
9:03
Speaker 2: in the default option, so most people don't make an
9:06
Speaker 2: active choice, and the superannuation system has been prerely pretty
9:10
Speaker 2: carefully designed now to ensure that if you go into
9:15
Speaker 2: the default option, and this is with my super for example,
9:18
Speaker 2: the default option is relatively inexpensive, and it also gives
9:22
Speaker 2: you an appropriate level of risk and therefore return theoretically
9:27
Speaker 2: for your age. What used to happen often was that
9:31
Speaker 2: you could be dumped into the conservative option even though
9:34
Speaker 2: you were twenty five years old, because that was the default.
9:37
Speaker 2: So now the default option is usually a balanced or
9:40
Speaker 2: a growth option, and some funds will do it per
9:44
Speaker 2: age and so on, and that means that you are
9:47
Speaker 2: taking an appropriate level of risk, and the vast majority
9:50
Speaker 2: of people I'm talking eighty percent plus just stick with
9:53
Speaker 2: the default. So that's everybody, male and female. I will
9:58
Speaker 2: say men are are somewhat more likely to make an
10:03
Speaker 2: active choice, so they're more engaged to the best of
10:07
Speaker 2: our knowledge, and are more likely to make an active choice.
10:12
Speaker 2: And when they make an active choice, they tend to
10:15
Speaker 2: make a higher risk choice rather than a null risk choice.
10:18
Speaker 2: So if you'll put into the growth option and you've
10:20
Speaker 2: got the choice of perhaps actively selecting your own Australian
10:24
Speaker 2: equity some funds allow you to do that, or specific
10:27
Speaker 2: international exposure or whatever, or the conservative option, they're more
10:31
Speaker 2: likely to go for the higher risk options, which longer
10:34
Speaker 2: term and Soper is very long term investment strategy for
10:36
Speaker 2: most people, tends to give.
10:38
Speaker 1: You will do better. Yeah, okay.
10:41
Speaker 2: Where women make an active choice, they tend to be
10:43
Speaker 2: more conservative than men, not more conservative as and they
10:46
Speaker 2: always go to the conservative option. They're just less likely
10:49
Speaker 2: to make them more high risk option.
10:52
Speaker 1: The scenarioy here, and that we know that research right
10:55
Speaker 1: over the years, academic research about investing shuld and tell
10:59
Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong in the mean, it show that
11:01
Speaker 1: very broadly, folks, I kind of going to generalize here.
11:03
Speaker 1: I'm mocking antenna Ie. I know I'm in a dangerous
11:06
Speaker 1: area here, but I'm going to keep going that men
11:09
Speaker 1: are more likely to take active and higher risk and
11:13
Speaker 1: will chase if you like the big winning stock more likely.
11:17
Speaker 1: Women are more likely to take a conservative choice, and
11:21
Speaker 1: that has often meant that they were better investors. But
11:24
Speaker 1: it doesn't seem to play out that way in super
11:27
Speaker 1: it seems from what you said.
11:28
Speaker 2: First of all, Yeah, it's really interesting when you look
11:32
Speaker 2: at it. So men are more likely to make the
11:35
Speaker 2: high risk option. They're also far more likely to turn
11:39
Speaker 2: over their portfolios and change more frequently.
11:42
Speaker 1: Okay, so they're more engaged, they're certing more control. Is
11:45
Speaker 1: that fair?
11:46
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, but the data says that tends to be
11:50
Speaker 2: a worse strategy over time. So one of the reasons
11:53
Speaker 2: there is a perception that women are better investors on average,
11:58
Speaker 2: huge generalization here, is because they tend not to be
12:03
Speaker 2: actively pursuing the best option all the time. And because
12:07
Speaker 2: your data is always back the booking, right, we always
12:09
Speaker 2: say past performance is not an indicator of future performance,
12:12
Speaker 2: even if you're a momentum trader. Fine, that's a different scenario.
12:15
Speaker 2: But you know, men are more likely to go. Goodness,
12:19
Speaker 2: international shares performed really well last year. I don't want
12:22
Speaker 2: to miss out on that. I will go and increase
12:25
Speaker 2: my exposure to international shares. And so there is this
12:29
Speaker 2: general trend you see in the data that because blokes
12:32
Speaker 2: are more likely to be pursuing that winning option. They
12:37
Speaker 2: might well honestly increase their turnover costs. This is the
12:40
Speaker 2: biggest issue. You increase your turnover costs and you increase
12:44
Speaker 2: the risk in your portfolio.
12:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we're not comparing apples with apples here. That's
12:48
Speaker 1: the problem that I ventured into that area, but I
12:50
Speaker 1: thought it was worth sort of exploring. So we have
12:52
Speaker 1: no evidence that women or do we have evidence that
12:55
Speaker 1: women inside super take more conservative options? The slim evidence
12:59
Speaker 1: perhaps is there because we're talking about a narrow cohort
13:02
Speaker 1: anyone that make a decision.
13:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, so of those who make an active choice, they
13:07
Speaker 2: are more likely to be conservative than men.
13:10
Speaker 1: Okay, and then they are more likely to make less
13:12
Speaker 1: in the fullness of time over their working career around
13:15
Speaker 1: their super with that choice.
13:17
Speaker 2: Yes, okay, okay, But then can I be frank it's
13:20
Speaker 2: a rational choice to be more conservative if you have less,
13:24
Speaker 2: that's a rational choice. This is where it gets tricky.
13:27
Speaker 2: If you have three hundred thousand dollars to last you
13:30
Speaker 2: for your retirement and you don't have the buffer of
13:34
Speaker 2: the assets test in the pension in the age pension system,
13:37
Speaker 2: because you've already got the full pension. You don't want
13:41
Speaker 2: to run that down very quickly by taking undue risk
13:43
Speaker 2: and incurring a loss. So one thing that doesn't get
13:46
Speaker 2: talked about a lot is if you have less, being
13:48
Speaker 2: more conservative is a very rational choice.
13:51
Speaker 1: That's a powerful point. I mean, if you have two
13:53
Speaker 1: hundred thousand and super and you lose twenty percent, it's
13:55
Speaker 1: going to break your heart. If you have two million
13:57
Speaker 1: in and you lose twenty percent, well you're less rich
13:59
Speaker 1: than you are, but it's not.
14:00
Speaker 2: Going to kill you.
14:01
Speaker 1: I kill you.
14:02
Speaker 2: That's a beautiful everybody.
14:04
Speaker 1: Okay, look, we've got to take a short break. We'll
14:06
Speaker 1: be back in a moment and we're going to look
14:07
Speaker 1: at what you can do to improve your chances of
14:12
Speaker 1: doing better in super and whether women should invest differently
14:16
Speaker 1: in Super. It's a million dollar question. Back in a moment. Hello,
14:35
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Australians Money Puzzle podcast. I'm James Kirby.
14:39
Speaker 1: I'm talking to Jemma Dale. She's the head of investor
14:42
Speaker 1: behavior at NAB Trade and she's a regular on the
14:46
Speaker 1: show and I wanted to talk to her about this
14:48
Speaker 1: particular issue because I think it's highly relevant. We've a
14:51
Speaker 1: lot of women listeners. We have a lot of couple listeners,
14:54
Speaker 1: if you know, they write in as couples and they
14:56
Speaker 1: talk about their issue as couples. And I imagine this
14:58
Speaker 1: is going to come up in this segment. But just
15:00
Speaker 1: before we start, so you said, like, basically, women are
15:03
Speaker 1: behind the apalls. Straight away, even in really young people,
15:05
Speaker 1: you can see that their superbalances are lower than men.
15:09
Speaker 1: And then I think it's statistically it's in the late
15:12
Speaker 1: twenties it really starts to become obvious and then obviously
15:15
Speaker 1: by the time you're forty, it becomes glaringly obvious. And
15:18
Speaker 1: that's been the case for a long time. Okay, so
15:22
Speaker 1: where would you start, Like, let's say you're in that position,
15:26
Speaker 1: or you are in a position where you're going to
15:29
Speaker 1: talk to your spouse. Are you going to talk to
15:31
Speaker 1: your daughter or your sister about this? Where would you begin? Jemma,
15:35
Speaker 1: what are the obvious pathways where you could fix things?
15:41
Speaker 2: So I think that there are two. Actually there's a
15:43
Speaker 2: multitude of different ways you can come at this. The
15:45
Speaker 2: critical thing is make sure you know what you have
15:49
Speaker 2: in superannuation, who it's with, and how it's invested. That
15:53
Speaker 2: sounds really basic, but it is absolutely astonishing.
15:56
Speaker 1: How astonishing?
15:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's you know, it's engagement is the biggest issue
16:03
Speaker 2: every super fund has. You know, they struggle to engage
16:07
Speaker 2: their members. So the very first thing is do I
16:11
Speaker 2: have superannuation? Have I gone and done a superannuation sort
16:15
Speaker 2: of a lost super look up just to make sure
16:17
Speaker 2: I found any funds from when I was twenty two
16:19
Speaker 2: and I was working in a pub and they paid
16:21
Speaker 2: a few hundred dollars. So have I done all of that?
16:24
Speaker 2: I mean, there have been many important strategies employed by
16:27
Speaker 2: the government, by the ATO to ensure that's less of
16:29
Speaker 2: a risk than it used to be. But do I
16:31
Speaker 2: have all of my super in one place? Do I
16:34
Speaker 2: know who it's invested with?
16:36
Speaker 1: Sorry, just to make just to clarify and that that
16:38
Speaker 1: means not to have multiple funds and to decide on
16:41
Speaker 1: one fund. Is that what you're saying.
16:43
Speaker 2: Generally, there may be a good reason to have two,
16:46
Speaker 2: which I'll talk about, and it usually is related to insurance.
16:50
Speaker 2: So that's just a very specific scenario where having a
16:53
Speaker 2: second fund might work. But broadly speaking, you want to
16:57
Speaker 2: know who it's invested with, what are you your fees
17:01
Speaker 2: and what asset allocation. Do you have is your employer
17:04
Speaker 2: paying you're super frequently? If you have any concerns about that,
17:09
Speaker 2: you need to track it and make sure that you're
17:12
Speaker 2: seeing it go in. It's the fact it's in your
17:14
Speaker 2: pace lip doesn't mean it's in your fun necessarily, so
17:17
Speaker 2: you want to go and check.
17:18
Speaker 1: And another piece of progress isn't this year is to
17:20
Speaker 1: pay day super that the super goes in at the
17:22
Speaker 1: same time as your salary at last. That is the
17:25
Speaker 1: law now.
17:26
Speaker 2: So there've been a lot of improvements about things that
17:28
Speaker 2: used to cause people enormous to stress and financial loss
17:33
Speaker 2: that were sort of built into the system. Now the
17:35
Speaker 2: system has been cleaned up in a lot of ways
17:37
Speaker 2: to make it much better for individuals and employees. So
17:40
Speaker 2: find out where you're super is. Go and have a
17:42
Speaker 2: look at your latest statement. Get a log in. Most
17:45
Speaker 2: people forget their super fucking you know, get a log in,
17:48
Speaker 2: Go and see where it's invested. Have a look at
17:50
Speaker 2: your fees. Understand what your fees are. I do want
17:53
Speaker 2: to talk about insurance because when you're younger, you may
17:56
Speaker 2: have default insurance or you may have no insurance.
17:59
Speaker 1: This is life insurance.
18:00
Speaker 2: This is so there's actually three types of insurance. You
18:03
Speaker 2: can have life insurance, total impermanent disablement, which is called
18:06
Speaker 2: a handful of things, but let's call it total and
18:08
Speaker 2: permanent to seven because I'm old and that's what I
18:10
Speaker 2: call it, DVD, and income protection. Now, they're immensely valuable
18:15
Speaker 2: for you if you need them. For young people, if
18:20
Speaker 2: you're single and you don't have any debt, then life
18:22
Speaker 2: insurance might not be valuable for you, but income protection
18:26
Speaker 2: is very important. If you've got huge assets elsewhere, then
18:29
Speaker 2: they're not important. So you want to know what the
18:30
Speaker 2: insurance is because the premiums come out of your balance
18:33
Speaker 2: every year, and if you're paying sizeable insurance premiums, you know,
18:38
Speaker 2: several thousand dollars a year, and they're eating up your
18:40
Speaker 2: contributions and you didn't really know you were paying them.
18:44
Speaker 2: There's no accrued benefit to it. It's not like the old,
18:47
Speaker 2: old old days where you might get something back from
18:50
Speaker 2: your insurance if you will live long enough. That doesn't
18:53
Speaker 2: happen anymore. You're just paying a premium for the cover.
18:56
Speaker 2: So check the insurance is not eating up your balance,
18:59
Speaker 2: and that it's there for a reason that you're comfortable with.
19:02
Speaker 2: You know, that you're okay with what it is, so
19:05
Speaker 2: insurance as well.
19:07
Speaker 1: Okay, now they're sort of like gender neutral observations, aren't they. Well, yeah,
19:12
Speaker 1: so what can the woman do? Should the woman do
19:16
Speaker 1: anything different? In super sense, their super stories are different.
19:23
Speaker 2: I think the really difficult one with women is the
19:26
Speaker 2: story we always say is you need to engage more
19:29
Speaker 2: with your super and you need to contribute more in
19:32
Speaker 2: order to offset the fact that you will have less
19:37
Speaker 2: over time. The primary reason you will have less over
19:40
Speaker 2: time is you earn less on average. So women on
19:44
Speaker 2: average earn less than men. That's a really difficult story
19:47
Speaker 2: to sell. You have less income, you should put more
19:50
Speaker 2: of it away.
19:51
Speaker 1: You're asking someone who earns less to possibly voluntarily add
19:56
Speaker 1: more through through But you could explain anyway the advantage
20:00
Speaker 1: of that of voluntary superannuation contributions to anyone who's listening
20:03
Speaker 1: who isn't really across it, and how it works.
20:06
Speaker 2: Yeah. So there's a multitude of different ways you can
20:09
Speaker 2: contribute more, and there have been incentives over time to
20:13
Speaker 2: do that. I mean, the most obvious incentive is that
20:16
Speaker 2: superannuation is tax less than income and most other assets.
20:22
Speaker 2: Over time, there are anomalies at different types. So you're
20:25
Speaker 2: paying fifteen cents in the dollar going in, but that's
20:28
Speaker 2: compared if you're climbing a tax deduction for it. So
20:30
Speaker 2: this is really important. So you get a limit each
20:33
Speaker 2: year thirty grand of the amount that you can contribute
20:38
Speaker 2: to SUPER on a pre tax basis, and that includes
20:42
Speaker 2: your employer contributions. Most people don't even come up to
20:45
Speaker 2: that now.
20:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, so crucially so, folks, if you want to make
20:48
Speaker 1: an extra contribution to SUPER, you can put in. And
20:52
Speaker 1: these figures move up every year too, But at thirtieth
20:54
Speaker 1: at the moment, thirty difficult for the art person to say, day,
20:58
Speaker 1: I say thirty the why do I have to say it? Twice?
21:01
Speaker 1: Thirty thousand parannum maximum voluntary pre tax contribution. That's the
21:07
Speaker 1: first point. Okay, so it's really good, right, instead of
21:10
Speaker 1: paying forty five percent or whatever, you're paying fifteen. But
21:12
Speaker 1: the other point, which is very important, is it's not
21:15
Speaker 1: thirty thousand as such. It is whatever your twelve percent
21:19
Speaker 1: super compulsory is. And the gap between that and thirty thousand,
21:26
Speaker 1: So if you're one hundred thousand, right, yeah, if you're
21:28
Speaker 1: one hundred, than twelve and a half is already gone in.
21:32
Speaker 1: Isn't that right? So basically you can put in the
21:34
Speaker 1: gap between twelve and a half and thirty. Have I
21:36
Speaker 1: got that right?
21:37
Speaker 2: Yes, So you've got to make sure. And the lovely
21:39
Speaker 2: thing is that your employer will note on your pace
21:43
Speaker 2: slip how much has gone into super for the year,
21:47
Speaker 2: so you can track it make sure that you don't
21:49
Speaker 2: accidentally go over the limit. The other thing that's lovely
21:52
Speaker 2: is that you can make lump some contributions on the
21:55
Speaker 2: twenty ninth of June. Please be super careful about your timing.
21:58
Speaker 2: I know I personally made this miss I made a
22:00
Speaker 2: contribution on the thirtieth of June. Well, it was to
22:03
Speaker 2: my own self managed super funds and so I was like,
22:06
Speaker 2: it's fine, it's an intertragedy.
22:07
Speaker 1: You allowed us. But if it was Australian supero, they
22:10
Speaker 1: couldn't do it. Though a big fund couldn't do it
22:12
Speaker 1: that fast, could they.
22:13
Speaker 2: Well, the worst part about it was that I should
22:15
Speaker 2: have known it was my own fund. It was within
22:18
Speaker 2: the same financial institution for the account that was used
22:22
Speaker 2: by this particular institution for the super account didn't sit
22:26
Speaker 2: inside the bank system, which an ordinary customer wouldn't have
22:30
Speaker 2: known but I should have known. I don't do it
22:34
Speaker 2: on the twenty nine.
22:35
Speaker 1: So do it a week or two or maybe a
22:37
Speaker 1: month before the end of June, folks, just to make
22:40
Speaker 1: sure time. And also people can do salary sacrifice, can't they,
22:44
Speaker 1: which is probably easier if you would have got a
22:45
Speaker 1: big employer. Give the pay officer ring, I'll go through
22:48
Speaker 1: the multitude of forms that they ne' throw at you
22:50
Speaker 1: rather than answering the phone and see very simply, you know,
22:53
Speaker 1: I want to put in X amount per month extra
22:58
Speaker 1: of concession contra.
22:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know.
23:00
Speaker 1: And it's just easy.
23:01
Speaker 2: It is really nice.
23:02
Speaker 1: It's really cool because you don't really feel it. You
23:04
Speaker 1: don't notice it so much compared to handing over a
23:07
Speaker 1: bag of money in June, which is never easy for
23:10
Speaker 1: any reason, even for your own super well, you used.
23:12
Speaker 2: Not to be able to do that either employee. You
23:15
Speaker 2: didn't have that option. That's why I mentioned it because
23:17
Speaker 2: people may remember the old system, where as an employee
23:20
Speaker 2: you could only do it as salary sacrifice. Now you
23:23
Speaker 2: can do it either way.
23:24
Speaker 1: You can do it anyway you like, as as it
23:26
Speaker 1: gets in and you notify the tax office. That's easy
23:29
Speaker 1: to follow. Money spar for instance, a website will tell
23:31
Speaker 1: you all about that, or the ATO will tell you
23:32
Speaker 1: about that. Okay, now that's one thing, let's look at
23:36
Speaker 1: it other you mentioned there's lots of ways to improve
23:39
Speaker 1: your super That was one. What else have your mind?
23:43
Speaker 2: So there's also after tax contributions. These are harder to justify.
23:49
Speaker 2: I think when you have cash flow challenges. Right when
23:53
Speaker 2: you're younger and you don't have a lot of additional income,
23:56
Speaker 2: the idea of putting in money on an after tax
23:58
Speaker 2: basis is hard. But as you get closer to retirement
24:01
Speaker 2: and your cash flows hopefully improve, particularly if you have
24:05
Speaker 2: a windfall, you can and we see this a lot.
24:09
Speaker 2: Where people sell a property, they downsize, so there's a
24:12
Speaker 2: downside of contribution. That's quite attractive if you're older. I
24:15
Speaker 2: won't go into too much detail on that, but you
24:18
Speaker 2: it is a really good one. There's a downsize of contribution.
24:21
Speaker 2: But you can also Often what we see with people
24:24
Speaker 2: is sell a property. That's the usual example. Sell a property,
24:27
Speaker 2: you've got a capital gain that you want to reduce.
24:31
Speaker 2: You can use your concessional contribution of thirty thousand dollars
24:34
Speaker 2: including your esguy to offset or reduce some of the
24:38
Speaker 2: assessible gain, but the remainder you can contribute as a
24:42
Speaker 2: non concessional contribution, so this is an after tax contribution,
24:46
Speaker 2: and this is then inside souper. The earnings on that
24:50
Speaker 2: are capped at fifteen tents in their dollar, which is
24:53
Speaker 2: really attractive, rather than being taxed in your own name,
24:56
Speaker 2: any gains on that or any kind of income on
24:58
Speaker 2: that as tax at your own marginal. So it's very
25:01
Speaker 2: attractive as you get closer to retirement, and we see
25:04
Speaker 2: a lot of couples doing this sort of thing where
25:06
Speaker 2: we've got a windfall close to retirement, we're sort of
25:10
Speaker 2: moving our assets around and we'll just split the contributions
25:13
Speaker 2: in half, so you get some and I get some,
25:15
Speaker 2: and we both benefit from increasing our superbalances before retirement.
25:19
Speaker 2: So those ones are capped as well, but you can
25:22
Speaker 2: do three years worth in one year.
25:25
Speaker 1: That's night, and they're pretty generous. They're like one hundred
25:26
Speaker 1: and twenty grand parannum, and you can put in several
25:29
Speaker 1: years worth if you hadn't put in any in the past.
25:31
Speaker 1: I mean, the crucial thing I suppose that for listeners
25:34
Speaker 1: might be to consider if you get an inheritance and
25:37
Speaker 1: everyone gets they're inheritent much later now, right, So people
25:40
Speaker 1: getting their habit getting inheriting when they're in their fifties
25:44
Speaker 1: and sixties right where they used to be in their
25:46
Speaker 1: forties and fifties. And that's a point where you're just
25:48
Speaker 1: about you know, retirement isn't that far away. So let's
25:51
Speaker 1: say it's ten years away, eight years away, eighteen, you're
25:54
Speaker 1: fourteen years away. That The point I'm making is sitting
25:57
Speaker 1: there with this bag of money, and if you get
25:59
Speaker 1: it into your super before you retire, you're going to
26:03
Speaker 1: have a tax free income stream from that. So really
26:07
Speaker 1: think about that. I would think that was an outstanding opportunity.
26:10
Speaker 1: Most people don't have money sitting around, as you say,
26:12
Speaker 1: to make after tax super contributions, but occasionally they do
26:17
Speaker 1: when they have a windfall, gain of redundancy, an inheritance
26:21
Speaker 1: or whatever. That's the time. Okay, anything else that you'd
26:24
Speaker 1: think is important for women to know that they might
26:27
Speaker 1: do differently, as you say, to make contributions to super.
26:31
Speaker 1: If you want to catch up, that's what you have
26:32
Speaker 1: to do. It's kind of like tough love, really, because
26:35
Speaker 1: it's not you might say, you know, that's a hard
26:37
Speaker 1: way to do it. But it's the only way to
26:39
Speaker 1: do it, isn't it? Really? Is there anything else that
26:41
Speaker 1: people should keep in mind as couples, for instance, and
26:46
Speaker 1: I'm talking about couples where both parties trust each other
26:50
Speaker 1: implicitly and financially and intend to stay together for the
26:53
Speaker 1: rest of their days. And once you've ticked those boxes,
26:57
Speaker 1: what can they do?
26:59
Speaker 2: It's a nice divorce anyway, right, So there's no point
27:02
Speaker 2: trying to hide your contributions in super That was a
27:05
Speaker 2: strategy many decades ago, and thank god that's gone too, right,
27:08
Speaker 2: So if it happens that you don't make it, it's
27:12
Speaker 2: still an asset, and the divorce, it's not like you
27:14
Speaker 2: lost it if you contributed it to your spouse accounts.
27:16
Speaker 2: It's all just considered part of the pool.
27:18
Speaker 1: Now, okay, I suppose that's something to reassure, But in
27:22
Speaker 1: any event, yeah.
27:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, with any of it, we're not thinking about that.
27:25
Speaker 2: You're part of a couple. Excellent. One thing that has
27:28
Speaker 2: absolutely come back into vogue, and it comes and goes
27:30
Speaker 2: is the idea of trying to equalize your balances as
27:33
Speaker 2: a couple. This is it was very important back in
27:37
Speaker 2: the days of RBLS. You said these reasonable benefits limits,
27:39
Speaker 2: which was basically we had a fairly hard cap on
27:42
Speaker 2: how much you can have in super and then after
27:43
Speaker 2: that you get taxed punitively. And then we got rid
27:46
Speaker 2: of those in two thousand and seven. Now we've come
27:49
Speaker 2: back the other way, so we've got div two nine
27:51
Speaker 2: six now, which is your sort of higher tax rates
27:56
Speaker 2: once you hit a threshold, so three million and ten million.
27:59
Speaker 2: If you have to be in a cohort where there's
28:01
Speaker 2: a reasonable chance you'll hit those balances for one member
28:04
Speaker 2: of a spouse, you want to be capping any contributions
28:07
Speaker 2: to that individual and trying to raise the other one. Right,
28:09
Speaker 2: it's much better if you've both got three million dollars
28:11
Speaker 2: in neither of you gets hit, then one of you
28:13
Speaker 2: has six million dollars and one of you has nothing
28:15
Speaker 2: that's sent. So equalization is way back in vogue. It
28:20
Speaker 2: also made much more sense from an estate planning perspective,
28:23
Speaker 2: but we'll leave that because it's quite a complicated subject.
28:26
Speaker 2: So a couple of things you can do. One is
28:29
Speaker 2: prioritize contributions to the lower holding spouse, which tends to
28:34
Speaker 2: be the woman. You can do splitting of your contributions
28:40
Speaker 2: so you can split eighty five percent of the contributions.
28:44
Speaker 2: That's the after tax man, because remember we pay fifteen
28:46
Speaker 2: cents in the dollar to the ATO for a pre
28:48
Speaker 2: tax contribution that goes in, you can split that to
28:51
Speaker 2: your spouse's account. So you could, if you're a man
28:55
Speaker 2: having your thirty thousand dollars a year going in, split
28:59
Speaker 2: eighty five percent center. That's just the post tax amount
29:02
Speaker 2: over to your spouse's account, and so you're therefore building
29:05
Speaker 2: up her account to equalize, and it benefits both of
29:08
Speaker 2: you over time if you're coming closer to those thresholds
29:11
Speaker 2: and the transfer balance caps and all the other limits
29:14
Speaker 2: now that are really reducing the attractiveness for people who
29:18
Speaker 2: were trying to get very large balances. And there's also
29:22
Speaker 2: a spouse contribution at the very low end where you
29:25
Speaker 2: get a five hundred and fifty or five hundred and
29:27
Speaker 2: forty dollars tax offset, which is not going to change
29:29
Speaker 2: anyone's life. But for a contribution, it's not.
29:32
Speaker 1: Going to change anyone. Super people are to talk about it.
29:35
Speaker 2: I think maybe everyone wants five hundred and forty dollars
29:37
Speaker 2: back from tax office, so it's fine, you could try
29:39
Speaker 2: that too, but you have the very low income earning
29:41
Speaker 2: spouse again, and that's useful to.
29:43
Speaker 1: That degree, but the key one is equalization. So, folks,
29:46
Speaker 1: at the point I think Champ is making is why
29:48
Speaker 1: as a copper would you walk into a situation where
29:52
Speaker 1: you're going to cross the caps when one person had
29:54
Speaker 1: way more super than the other end. There was no
29:56
Speaker 1: need for that to happen if you had planned that
30:00
Speaker 1: basically how it would fall you.
30:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was a period of about ten years where
30:04
Speaker 2: everyone decided maybe longer actually, you know, the equalization just
30:08
Speaker 2: wasn't that important because it was tax very super once
30:11
Speaker 2: you hit sixty and you could make text very withdrawals
30:14
Speaker 2: and there were just no limits. And then they started
30:16
Speaker 2: reintroducing limits and went back to like, oh where does
30:19
Speaker 2: it going. It's really importantly we equalize. Okay, what comes
30:23
Speaker 2: around in super?
30:24
Speaker 1: That's right? Well, as they say, it's marvelous in many ways, Super,
30:28
Speaker 1: but it is also something of a lobster pot, and
30:31
Speaker 1: well it's in. You can't get it out until you retired.
30:34
Speaker 1: But the government are there all the time thinking of
30:36
Speaker 1: ways to raise revenues. So guess what it changes. Keeps
30:40
Speaker 1: that in mind, folks. Okay, I have some really good
30:42
Speaker 1: questions I've kept for Gemma. Some of them are on
30:45
Speaker 1: this issue. Stay with us, we'll be back in a moment. Hello,
30:54
Speaker 1: Welcome back to The Australian's Money Puzzle podcast. This is
30:57
Speaker 1: the part of the show where we take listener questions
31:00
Speaker 1: every week and our guests will answer them to the
31:02
Speaker 1: rest of his or her ability. The first question actually
31:05
Speaker 1: is kind of in the area I'm thinking Jemma's worth hearing.
31:10
Speaker 1: It's from Jonathan. The new minimum super contribution is effectively
31:14
Speaker 1: a new tax for those earning over three hundred k,
31:17
Speaker 1: as the compulsory rate is down twelve percent. Your employer's
31:21
Speaker 1: compulsory contribution if you who had three hundred K, it
31:23
Speaker 1: would be thirty six thousand. This puts you six thousand
31:26
Speaker 1: over the maximum cap you can do pre tax super
31:30
Speaker 1: as we were just talking about a moment ago. And
31:32
Speaker 1: once you go over that maximum cap as a kind
31:34
Speaker 1: of a cloback. So as Jonathan says, your employer is
31:38
Speaker 1: obliged to contribute. You can either cap your salary at
31:41
Speaker 1: three hundred or pay the additional tax that's sort of
31:44
Speaker 1: a tax penalty that's called just to keep this amount.
31:47
Speaker 1: It's called Division two nine three try not to get
31:49
Speaker 1: confused with all these things, though it's hard anyway. The
31:53
Speaker 1: point he's making is, is there a way to reduce
31:54
Speaker 1: or eliminate Section two nine three other than capping your salary?
31:58
Speaker 1: And I would have thought the way one if you
32:01
Speaker 1: had a partner who will know by that battle you
32:05
Speaker 1: would do equalization like you were talking about.
32:08
Speaker 2: Is that well no, So there's a thing called the
32:10
Speaker 2: maximum contribution base, which has existed forever. I had to
32:15
Speaker 2: go check the numbers, and your employer is not obligated
32:19
Speaker 2: to make SG contributions. Once you earn more than sixty
32:24
Speaker 2: two five hundred dollars a quarter that's in next each
32:27
Speaker 2: year that comes to two hundred and fifty thousand dollars
32:30
Speaker 2: a year. So they're not obligated to contribute for you
32:37
Speaker 2: above two fifty.
32:39
Speaker 1: To contribute for you on the path that's over to fifty.
32:43
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, So you don't automatically get thirty six grand.
32:49
Speaker 2: You have to have an employer who's willing to pay
32:53
Speaker 2: over and above the maximum contribution base. So I would
32:56
Speaker 2: ask that question first. You may not be getting anything
32:59
Speaker 2: over to fifty because there's no obligation under the.
33:01
Speaker 1: Lord, and most employers don't no, and so you would.
33:04
Speaker 2: Say, may I please take that in salary instead, although
33:07
Speaker 2: I should note that if you were taking it in
33:09
Speaker 2: salary instead, you're going to be paying forty seven cents
33:11
Speaker 2: in the dollar, which is worse than you would be
33:12
Speaker 2: paying if it were going in six.
33:15
Speaker 1: Okay. I think in small companies, especially small private companies,
33:19
Speaker 1: where they have great scoop, all sorts of things are possible.
33:22
Speaker 1: But in a large corporation like a bank or a
33:25
Speaker 1: major metropolitan gigantic media company news, you're not going to
33:30
Speaker 1: get any games around that. All right, Dan asks, thanks
33:33
Speaker 1: for the content. Is really help me build confidence and
33:36
Speaker 1: start to put together some pieces of my own money passive.
33:39
Speaker 1: Thank you, Dan. The money Smart website, which we mentioned
33:43
Speaker 1: a minute ago, which is run by ACIK, has some
33:45
Speaker 1: good tools and calculators for projecting super Are there any
33:49
Speaker 1: common traps or rules of tim you might be able
33:52
Speaker 1: to discuss when using these calculators? Yes, Dan, there certainly is.
33:57
Speaker 1: I tell you two things that come to mind because
33:59
Speaker 1: I've written a feature on both of these issues, and
34:02
Speaker 1: when you're write a feature on something, you tend to
34:03
Speaker 1: remember it, which is very useful. So the first thing
34:06
Speaker 1: is that all those calculators. They've got a serious flaw.
34:11
Speaker 1: I would say that people don't realize they assume a
34:15
Speaker 1: certain age, so they say you'll retire, okay, whatever it's
34:18
Speaker 1: your and then they put a number on an age
34:21
Speaker 1: that your super runs to running down to zero, and
34:25
Speaker 1: they assume you go on the pension after that. Okay. Now,
34:30
Speaker 1: a lot of people would aspire never to go on
34:31
Speaker 1: the pension, and listeners to the show would aspire never
34:34
Speaker 1: to go on the pension, some of them on principle,
34:37
Speaker 1: some of them not on principle at all, and would
34:38
Speaker 1: pick up any pension they can. Majority of Australians get
34:41
Speaker 1: some sort of pension. That's for you to decide. But
34:44
Speaker 1: the point I'm making is to that extent those calculators
34:47
Speaker 1: are incomplete, let's say, at the very least. The second
34:50
Speaker 1: thing is that Acid Commissioner Alan Kirkland, who was on
34:55
Speaker 1: the show, Deputy Commissioner Commissioner At Aseik, who was on
34:58
Speaker 1: the show a few months ago, said he thought that
35:01
Speaker 1: a lot of those calculators were too high, right, that
35:03
Speaker 1: the numbers that they were cane out were too high
35:06
Speaker 1: and they were creating unnecessary stress for people. I'd agree
35:09
Speaker 1: with that.
35:09
Speaker 2: Too.
35:10
Speaker 1: I mean, we're on the show, we're all trying to
35:11
Speaker 1: build wealth. But at the same time, you know, guess what,
35:14
Speaker 1: you actually don't have to have any SUPER if you
35:15
Speaker 1: don't want. I mean, there's a pension and it's not great,
35:19
Speaker 1: but it's thirty thousand a year, and you'd have to
35:22
Speaker 1: have a fair bit of money to get an ingram
35:23
Speaker 1: of thirty thousand a year if there was no pension.
35:26
Speaker 1: So that is there. I'm just making the point that
35:30
Speaker 1: don't be stressed about those calculator numbers. They want you
35:33
Speaker 1: to contribute to SUPER all those companies. Keep that in mind. Okay,
35:36
Speaker 1: I think that's am I being unreasonable? What do you think?
35:39
Speaker 2: No? I would call out something else as well, which
35:42
Speaker 2: is you can't put into a calculator or you can,
35:45
Speaker 2: but in a way that is very difficult to make
35:47
Speaker 2: it easily understood by the average person. A thing called
35:51
Speaker 2: sequencing risk. So they assume a standard return every single
35:57
Speaker 2: you were.
35:57
Speaker 1: Saying, did you say seven and a half percent at
35:59
Speaker 1: the start of the show.
36:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, Unfortunately, that's not how the world works. A tour, yeah,
36:04
Speaker 2: and so in COVID years, it's absolutely terrible. In another years,
36:08
Speaker 2: it's amazing and there's really good research that the year
36:12
Speaker 2: in which you retire, the first couple of years are
36:15
Speaker 2: absolutely critical to how long your money lasts. So if
36:19
Speaker 2: you happen to retire just before a massive downturn, and
36:24
Speaker 2: a colleague of mine did this, retired just before the
36:26
Speaker 2: GFC lost forty percent of his portfolio in year one,
36:30
Speaker 2: and he hadn't taken unto risk or anything like that,
36:32
Speaker 2: or you had a standard portfolio. It was just an
36:34
Speaker 2: incredibly bad year in an anomalous sense. It was such
36:39
Speaker 2: a standout year wiped out his portfolio. He had no
36:42
Speaker 2: opportunity to make it back. He was back at work
36:44
Speaker 2: within eighteen months, and he was fortunate that he could
36:47
Speaker 2: do that. Sequencing risk matters. Those first few years really matter,
36:52
Speaker 2: whether you run out of super quickly or super run
36:54
Speaker 2: out of money, all sorts of outsets, whatever it is
36:57
Speaker 2: really fast, or whether you get this love long term
37:00
Speaker 2: return and everything's easy, but putting that in a calculator
37:04
Speaker 2: is really difficult. So people do have to be conscious
37:06
Speaker 2: that timing actually really does matter, very difficult to do.
37:09
Speaker 1: So if you're retired in two or seven, or nineteen
37:12
Speaker 1: ninety nine or nineteen eighty seven, early eighty seven. We say,
37:17
Speaker 1: then what happened was the big bag of money that
37:19
Speaker 1: you were going to try and live off the rest
37:21
Speaker 1: of your life is sliced back, and that will happen again.
37:24
Speaker 2: I'm sorry to tell you, because you were drawing at
37:27
Speaker 2: the same time. The issue is not that you lost
37:29
Speaker 2: so much. It's that you're not contributing and you're withdrawing
37:33
Speaker 2: someone who's twenty five completely different impact. But because you're
37:36
Speaker 2: withdrawing from it, you're compounding the impact of that drawdown
37:40
Speaker 2: straight away.
37:41
Speaker 1: You're withdrawing from the shrunken amount of money. And history suggests, folks,
37:46
Speaker 1: you know that there is a substantial share market crash
37:48
Speaker 1: on a cyclical basis. So the point we're making is
37:52
Speaker 1: not so much about crashes. It's that the calculators are
37:55
Speaker 1: the talk about average people with average amounts on his
37:59
Speaker 1: stone oracle measures, they extrapolate them over time. That's not
38:04
Speaker 1: how life works. The market goes of fifteen percent one
38:06
Speaker 1: year and goes down fifteen percent another year. That can happen,
38:10
Speaker 1: so be aware of that. Okay, terrific, thank you very much.
38:14
Speaker 1: One thing also much able to clarify the question on
38:16
Speaker 1: the private health and medicare, Levey they're from Danielle with
38:20
Speaker 1: one L and also from Rosalind. And we clarify that
38:22
Speaker 1: to the point that the Medicare Levey Sir charge gets
38:25
Speaker 1: charge unless everyone in the house has private cover. Most
38:31
Speaker 1: people didn't know that. Yes, Jemmy is raising her eyebrows.
38:35
Speaker 1: She might have known that either. Who knows, though she
38:37
Speaker 1: knows most things about super that's for sure. Thank you
38:39
Speaker 1: very much, Jemma. That was great to have you on
38:41
Speaker 1: the show today.
38:42
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me.
38:44
Speaker 1: That was Jemma Dale, head of Investor Behavior at NAB.
38:47
Speaker 1: I hope that was useful to you folks. Today's show
38:49
Speaker 1: was produced by Leah Samon Glue and let's have some
38:52
Speaker 1: more correspondents. Love to see those letters, questions, complaints, observations,
38:57
Speaker 1: the money puzzle at the Australian dot com dot at
39:00
Speaker 1: You talked you soon, sm