Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Eddie and Jon Arnold about their choice of Attack of the Cybermen (2/2)

Transcript

Talks to Eddie and Jon Arnold about their choice of Attack of the Cybermen (2/2) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:00
  And now on BBC One, it's time for CBBC.
• 0:04
  But first, before we head to Telos in Attack of the Cybermen,
• 0:10
  we have the zombie rap as explained later in this episode.
• 0:23
  Feeling down? Get out of the ground.
• 0:25
  Turn on your. TV.
• 0:27
  Wacky. Funky fun to watch.
• 0:29
  Children's BB. Welcome back Councillor Blunt
• 1:00
  Pen Knife. I have taken over this podcast
• 1:02
  from Joe Ford and he's no longer part of it.
• 1:04
  Welcome back. No, no, no.
• 1:09
  Sorry. I had to do it one more time.
• 1:11
  Thank you for that. What we're here to watch today.
• 1:15
  Actor Sideman. Part 2.
• 1:18
  Some would say the inferior instalment of attacking the
• 1:22
  sidemen, but we haven't watched it yet so we have made no
• 1:24
  judgement. Who are you here with today?
• 1:28
  And unfortunately, I'm here with the notorious John Arnold.
• 1:32
  Notorious, you say? It's terrible.
• 1:35
  The notorious what? What a gob shite.
• 1:39
  The notorious D under score arms.
• 1:43
  Now look, boys, BA all right, OK, I know when your
• 1:47
  relationship falling apart on this podcast, OK, as I can talk
• 1:53
  meant to and obviously I'm here as well.
• 1:55
  Hello, are we enjoying this so far?
• 2:00
  Yes. Oh, good answer, John.
• 2:02
  Fine, there's nothing there to get me by.
• 2:05
  Oh, OK, a bit of a backhanded compliment there.
• 2:09
  That's why I don't go at the minute.
• 2:12
  Well, should we jump straight in and see what Episode 2 has to
• 2:15
  offer? Here's a little spoiler for the
• 2:17
  future. It has the crayons in it.
• 2:23
  What if I jump in at a 90° angle instead of jumping straight in?
• 2:28
  You can jump in from any direction you want.
• 2:30
  All right. Although will you do?
• 2:32
  Can you do a crayon impression? No, John.
• 2:38
  No, because it's it's faith brain.
• 2:40
  I can't do, I can't do an impression of an impressionist.
• 2:43
  Do you know what the funniest bit is when the camera goes on
• 2:46
  that one and she goes, was it for Mondas to be saved?
• 2:51
  Earth must be destroyed and. The fingers I can do the
• 2:56
  fingers. And I just remember while, while
• 3:00
  I was watching bits of the Oscars, I, I was like, you know,
• 3:05
  Cynthia Revo could play a good crime with the nails.
• 3:07
  She's got hot. Oh yeah, wasn't a cry ONS my
• 3:13
  bring them back. We won't take less.
• 3:16
  Yeah, it's like, say Russell, I don't, I don't want the Ronnie
• 3:20
  back for Season 2 finale. Just bring back the cry.
• 3:23
  Oh, what if that's the twist? Anita Dobson is the cry on
• 3:27
  leader. Yeah, yeah.
• 3:29
  But welcome, Welcome back, Caris Ions.
• 3:35
  Well, let's go and watch episode 2.
• 3:38
  I mean, I do love the crowns, I'm not even going to lie about
• 3:41
  that, despite their terrible, awful plastic all over their
• 3:46
  face. You've got a Blue Peter
• 3:47
  presenter inside one of them, what more could you want?
• 3:50
  Well, you don't have Faith Brown there as well.
• 3:52
  Yeah. Thank you guys.
• 3:54
  There's Blue Peter presenters literally all over this show.
• 3:58
  I know. I mean, I will.
• 3:59
  You got Peter Purvis, obviously. Anyone else?
• 4:03
  Who else am I missing out on? Well, Aliens London is Matt
• 4:07
  Baker does the thing. That's right.
• 4:10
  And Konnie Hawk. Yes.
• 4:12
  Aren't they making a Dalek? I mean, I always think of Angie.
• 4:14
  Angie Kapoor's Konnie Hawk, anyway, so.
• 4:17
  Each and Neil Blue piece of percent is better than me
• 4:19
  because I because I literally barely watched a hit.
• 4:22
  Yeah, that's because you had a life at it.
• 4:23
  We didn't, you know. I mean I still knew it was on,
• 4:26
  but it's like CBBC was just not really on for me most of the
• 4:31
  time. In a sort of series of theme
• 4:33
  tunes that we're doing throughout this.
• 4:37
  No, let's go into. Episode and it's and it's just
• 4:40
  the camera panning over to a close up of the ship.
• 4:45
  You know what's weird though, right?
• 4:46
  Yeah. I mean, you wouldn't know this
• 4:47
  because you're very young, so you wouldn't have seen this back
• 4:49
  in the day. But back in the day, children's
• 4:51
  BBC had these idents, right? And I when I think of Blue
• 4:54
  Peter, I don't think of the Blue Peter music.
• 4:56
  I think of the. Do you remember that, John?
• 5:02
  Yes, I do. Yeah, that's because you're on.
• 5:04
  I get, not me. I don't be.
• 5:07
  I'm gonna be. Who was the first boom cover
• 5:09
  presenter? Oh.
• 5:11
  Golden the Gopher. Oh, scope field, you go back to
• 5:14
  scope field, yeah. I don't want to be sad and say
• 5:17
  that I've gone back and watched videos of like basically all the
• 5:20
  BBC One I dense from like literally in the 30s and
• 5:24
  whatnot, but I have gone back and watched videos.
• 5:26
  Have you? Are they available?
• 5:28
  Yeah, it's like you can find videos of like all the idents
• 5:31
  that they've done. It's like aside the ones that
• 5:34
  they've just got multiple copies first, like say, why did they
• 5:36
  have get rid of the back wings from the 50s?
• 5:39
  Those are cool. Well, quite.
• 5:42
  I quite like the BBC Two ones I had back in the day.
• 5:45
  Do you remember like the? Oh, the late 90s ones, the
• 5:48
  Dalek, The Dalek 1 they did as well.
• 5:50
  That's gorgeous. I've heard comment, I've heard
• 5:54
  praiseful comments about the BBC Two ones.
• 5:56
  I mean, nowadays it's people sort of dancing around on red
• 6:00
  clothes and ninja monks flying out place and.
• 6:05
  Right now it's when we constantly see is like one of a
• 6:07
  pool that has like a O shape thing just popping out
• 6:11
  occasionally. Like we just saw shooty pop out
• 6:14
  of one recently. Oh.
• 6:16
  Of course. Wasn't he there when Pat Butcher
• 6:19
  got a drink in the face as well? Yeah.
• 6:24
  Why didn't they just why didn't they just make one of those
• 6:26
  trailers for this like materialize insects of Cybermen
• 6:29
  when the bomb goes off and they're like, oh SH, we need to
• 6:32
  get our hope. Welcome back to the Ident
• 6:36
  podcast, starring Eddie, John and Joe.
• 6:40
  Yeah, it's like, who cares about attacking Cybermen?
• 6:42
  We can just do this. I mean, let's watch all the
• 6:45
  idents now. Come on, take us to that link.
• 6:48
  Oh yeah, Oh yeah. When are we actually going to
• 6:50
  start attacking cyber? Thank you for getting us back on
• 6:53
  track there. Well done.
• 6:54
  Please, I wouldn't need to. Think about watching.
• 6:56
  I wouldn't be complaining about watching a video of all the
• 6:58
  idents again. What is in fact the best Doctor
• 7:02
  themed you've got said? What?
• 7:05
  What? The 1986 one?
• 7:07
  Yeah. Peter Howe.
• 7:08
  Peter Howe. Dominic Glenn, thank you very
• 7:10
  much. Does nobody think the Sylvester
• 7:11
  McCoy one's the best one? I think I used to, but it's like
• 7:15
  say I just, I just prefer the Dominic Glenn ones.
• 7:19
  So, so slightly and. I love it, but it's when I go
• 7:22
  into Doctor Who. It was the theme tune, you know,
• 7:25
  changing my heart on that one. And the worst one, all right,
• 7:29
  The worst one is still that wretched Peter Capaldi 1.
• 7:36
  I love the graphics on it out of.
• 7:39
  Sync. What do you think's the worst
• 7:42
  one, Eddie? Well, I'll, I'll just have to
• 7:45
  say I do not have any bias thanks to growing up because
• 7:48
  since he made me watch it literally when series 4 was
• 7:50
  starting and I was basically only a month old.
• 7:53
  I don't have any sort of bias to which theme tunes the best or
• 7:57
  whatnot, but it's like, say, A. Month you were.
• 8:00
  Well, yeah, I was actually a month old or so.
• 8:02
  One series, 4 star. I've heard of early
• 8:05
  indoctrination but this is ridiculous when?
• 8:07
  Partisan crime was on. Yeah.
• 8:10
  Actually I heard of an earlier one the other day.
• 8:12
  Someone was telling me there was saying it whilst they were still
• 8:14
  in the womb, putting the tummy near the near the telly.
• 8:18
  Oh yeah? Well, let's not talk about Blink
• 8:20
  Weekend, by the way. Right, so one can.
• 8:25
  I'm not saying anything. It was nine months before he was
• 8:28
  born. Some would say, you know, it's
• 8:31
  like joining a culture. Absolutely.
• 8:34
  What let him know what his nickname was when he was in
• 8:37
  uterus? Utech.
• 8:39
  We call him Sutech when he was in.
• 8:43
  I mean, Eddie, I've, I mean, I'm only going to say this to you.
• 8:45
  Yeah. Is you're about to do a
• 8:46
  commentary on a 1984 Doctor Who story, Attack of the Side Men.
• 8:53
  So I'd say the indoctrination works.
• 8:56
  Isn't it 198585? Yes.
• 8:59
  Thank you, Do you know the amount of details I'll get wrong
• 9:02
  on this? And a new fan card.
• 9:06
  I've never had it in the first place, right?
• 9:07
  Someone counters in come. On I didn't last.
• 9:11
  Time. Oh, OK, John, let's do.
• 9:13
  It OK and let's go 321. Stars exploding it is great.
• 9:26
  It's the same graphic though in Trial of Time Lord, isn't it?
• 9:29
  Yes. Just the just the theme tune is.
• 9:35
  Do you know what I think? Of.
• 9:37
  Every time Colin comes out the screen like that I think of a
• 9:41
  multi coloured car to wear. Well, it's better than Pete.
• 9:46
  Well, it's better than Pete. Jason's blank stare.
• 9:50
  Oh wow, not as good as Sylvester's wink.
• 9:52
  Do you know on the on the behind the sofa, Eddie, Janet Fielding
• 9:56
  goes every time you know that blank stare comes on, she goes.
• 9:58
  Pete, it looks like you've been goosed.
• 10:02
  Let's not talk about what she's like every time the wink comes
• 10:04
  up from behind the sofa. She hates it, doesn't she?
• 10:10
  If I ever get a photo op with her I just need to do the wink.
• 10:15
  Eddie, have you met lovely Terry Malloy here who's about to meet
• 10:18
  his demise? I don't know.
• 10:21
  It's like it's very possible, but it's like, I have no idea
• 10:25
  because I've met so many people that I didn't.
• 10:27
  It's like, say I did. It's like, say, I didn't even
• 10:29
  know. But apparently I'd met David
• 10:31
  Goodison before I got a photo with him this year at some
• 10:34
  convention in Northern Ireland. You, I think you've met far more
• 10:37
  people than I have in terms of Doctor Who celebrities.
• 10:40
  Well then again, they just they just brought me to Cali every
• 10:43
  year and I just showed up for the photos.
• 10:45
  Indoctrination. I'm still I'm learning a lot.
• 10:47
  Stay, you know. Yeah, yeah, you still need to
• 10:50
  show up to a galley at some point.
• 10:54
  Oh, look at that side, man. He looks really shocked, doesn't
• 10:56
  he? The way he's sort of sort of
• 10:57
  standing back like that. Yeah, so it's like that
• 11:01
  cliffhanger resolution, Perry, I'm going to smack.
• 11:03
  No, wait. Of course, the Doctor's not
• 11:05
  going to do that. You know why is this?
• 11:07
  He's not Captain Koch. He set the self destruct
• 11:10
  contact. That's that's sideman stood
• 11:12
  stood they with his hand up all the.
• 11:13
  Time and why is? That sideman just like.
• 11:17
  Why is that side man in the background just completely
• 11:19
  different colour to the other? Well.
• 11:20
  That's the stealth side man from.
• 11:22
  The sewer. He's the Sewer 1.
• 11:23
  Yeah, it's like I didn't remember that because we just
• 11:26
  been talking so long, I've forgotten.
• 11:28
  But The thing is, Eddie right is he's got a pink gum.
• 11:31
  No, not so stealth, really. You can see the guns pink.
• 11:35
  And can we just talk about how 80s that countdown is?
• 11:39
  What the graphics? Oh, beat the BT.
• 11:41
  Micro. And of course it always ends on
• 11:44
  one second to go, doesn't it? Of course.
• 11:46
  Except when it's in true now that ends in like half a minute.
• 11:50
  0 - 10 seconds 980 Here we go. Right, we're off to tell off.
• 11:56
  So that's it. We're done with Earth now.
• 11:59
  Yeah. Bye.
• 12:01
  And this is a very sort of Eric Saywood, or should we say Paula
• 12:05
  Moore type of thing. Or even once, once you're sort
• 12:09
  of bit bored with the plots you just saw, move on from them.
• 12:14
  Yeah, are they sure they didn't just show someone trying to
• 12:16
  audition for a Cyberman here? Yeah, yeah, Sideman.
• 12:21
  Thank you. Lucky cybers or?
• 12:24
  The. Cyber factor, The human factor
• 12:27
  could go in today. They were just record.
• 12:30
  They were just recording some fans trying on a Cyberman
• 12:32
  costume and. It's the way he puts that help
• 12:36
  on. It's just like.
• 12:38
  Well, the music, the sting is just, I mean, I think Malcolm
• 12:42
  Clark can deliver good music, right?
• 12:43
  But his music in this is a bit this is.
• 12:46
  One of my problems, it's like if it's a punchline, it's it's like
• 12:50
  a. When don't you have a problem
• 12:54
  with a Doctor Who story? I've got problems.
• 12:57
  I've got no. I love all of them though.
• 13:01
  Well, even the twin died that. Even back after it's fine.
• 13:05
  Take care. Oh, I will blow your heart and
• 13:07
  mind all right if you go after the Twin dilemma.
• 13:11
  Not going for it. I can't do it.
• 13:13
  I can't. Do it to Joe Ed.
• 13:15
  Now look, fellas, I'm going to take you into a cupboard.
• 13:17
  Now let's go, right? And now let's discuss the final
• 13:21
  points of Doctor Who continuity from 1963 all the way through to
• 13:25
  1985. I mean, what is going on in this
• 13:28
  scene? Yeah, Oh no.
• 13:32
  Let's just remember the 10th planet happened and it happens
• 13:35
  like not far into the future from this.
• 13:38
  And it's not very 80s at all. In fact, it still feels very
• 13:40
  1960. I do like Perry there.
• 13:43
  Oh, yeah, Brian Glover comes on, does the confused thing, does
• 13:47
  the exposition. Oh, you'll get used to it.
• 13:49
  Great. What's weird, though, is that
• 13:51
  Brian Glover gets the comedy lines, and it really should be
• 13:53
  Perry. Yeah, Perry just gets to stand
• 13:56
  there and listen to the exposition when Brian Glover
• 13:59
  goes next year. That's almost Now you know,
• 14:02
  which is a funny line, but. It's all it's all sarcasm with
• 14:06
  Perry. That's the only kind of witch he
• 14:07
  get out here or Colin get. What you imagine is what you
• 14:12
  imagine is going on in that Cyberman's helmet there, yeah.
• 14:14
  Why do we just have to get a close up of that Cyberman blank
• 14:18
  face? It's like, say, in a shock, we
• 14:19
  at least got to see their mouths.
• 14:20
  But it's like after that, we just don't even see that.
• 14:22
  We just see the expressionist, expressionist, goofy faces like
• 14:27
  right up front saying, yeah, I'm going to destroy the world in a
• 14:31
  David Banks voice. Just imagine it was said like
• 14:33
  that. So you think that's less
• 14:34
  effective when you can't see that kind of drawer behind the?
• 14:37
  Yeah, I agree. Yeah.
• 14:40
  I mean, I tell you what, I'm not quite sure how to say this, so
• 14:43
  I'm just going to say it really. You know the the Cyber
• 14:47
  controllers tumescence in Tomb of the Cybermen?
• 14:51
  That fabulous veiny sort of. The big beanies.
• 14:55
  The big beanie. Let's just call it what it is,
• 14:58
  an enormous cock head, right? I mean, that was this is a sort
• 15:02
  of the inferior version, isn't it?
• 15:04
  It looks like he just got a bit of a, I don't know, greenhouse
• 15:07
  bolted on his head Or were. They trying to complete this
• 15:09
  stuff throughout Doctor Who because they got a second part
• 15:11
  of it and boom with the dead people and turning into the
• 15:16
  quote UN quote dead scroll thingies.
• 15:20
  Well, I'm going to have you on a continuity advisor now.
• 15:24
  You're going to be the new Ian Levine of the new series, OK.
• 15:27
  Yeah, you know, maybe then I did.
• 15:30
  Maybe then I'd at least remember that The Beatles appeared before
• 15:33
  the Devil's cause. Oh, so here's your audition
• 15:36
  piece. Ready.
• 15:37
  Can you shout and exclaim quite like a big baby?
• 15:41
  Yes, I'll tick. OK, Good, good, good swearing.
• 15:44
  Can you swear? Yes.
• 15:46
  Good, good. Can you write in block capitals
• 15:48
  on Twitter? Yeah.
• 15:50
  Oh, you've got the job right, Ian.
• 15:52
  Sorry. It's a new continuity advisor of
• 15:55
  the new series. You're in charge of all the AI
• 15:59
  reconstruction. It's that side man flying the
• 16:01
  TARDIS. I mean, how do they know how to
• 16:04
  do that? Here we go.
• 16:09
  Yeah, yeah. Remember back, remember back in
• 16:12
  Series 1 when only the Doctor could operate it and Todd has
• 16:15
  had a really complex lock system where nowadays literally anyone
• 16:19
  can just enter it and operate it?
• 16:22
  Do you think when the side man sort of blew up the console with
• 16:25
  an earth shock, that's it? All the systems went haywire and
• 16:27
  now anyone can use it well. I think even before that anyone
• 16:30
  could use because like 40 doomsday Janet Fielding was just
• 16:33
  like messing around with the control holes.
• 16:35
  Oh, I don't know what she's doing in that scene.
• 16:37
  You know when she's crying all over the console was very.
• 16:39
  Well, it blew up on Twitter, though.
• 16:41
  It was a huge meme, wasn't it? What people do in there, like
• 16:45
  what would make you react like this?
• 16:47
  And it's Janet Fielding having a breakdown over the console.
• 16:50
  Likes it. What?
• 16:52
  Isn't Janet Fielding just perfect?
• 16:53
  She's like any sort of reaction. Well, that's that's where she
• 16:56
  did. Adric didn't get that kind of
• 16:58
  reaction, did he? No, it's true.
• 17:00
  It's true. Yeah, it's like, Oh no, the
• 17:04
  Titus console is hard to operate.
• 17:05
  That's the worst part. Oh no, Adric's dead.
• 17:08
  I'm not even actually going to properly cry.
• 17:10
  I mean, what does all this mean? The web of time you can't change
• 17:14
  things. Like it's a bit like the new
• 17:16
  series, fixed point in time but way more boring with no
• 17:20
  emotional consequences. It's.
• 17:22
  Just doing a couple of lines, don't stretch it out.
• 17:25
  I think, I think my cousin point at one point that fixed point in
• 17:29
  time don't make sense all because like I said, they only
• 17:32
  throw in when it's plot convenient.
• 17:33
  It's like say, Oh no, I can't change the Pompeii outcome.
• 17:37
  I can't change towards the Mars outcome even though it's still
• 17:40
  like 50 years in the future. But Oh no, I just go back in
• 17:45
  time one time and yeah, I can change like the 100,000 BC
• 17:50
  course. I can just change the course of
• 17:52
  Marco Polo's journey. I can change the course of the
• 17:55
  French Revolution. Yeah, whatever.
• 17:58
  It's just something I can do whenever I say now, I can't be
• 18:00
  bold changing it. It's not going to be fun enough
• 18:02
  if I do. What, Oh my, what has that Simon
• 18:06
  got all over him? Well, sort of green gunk, like
• 18:09
  vomit or something, you know, and cobwebs.
• 18:12
  I love a bit of gunk in the mid 80s.
• 18:15
  And by the way, can I say the all those continuity references
• 18:18
  you just mentioned there? You've definitely got the job
• 18:20
  all right. I don't even remember what I
• 18:23
  just said. So right now, does he Levine
• 18:27
  from one second to the next. I mean, so if Ian Levine, who
• 18:31
  would have had photographs, thinks this is visually
• 18:33
  representative of two with the side men, he wasn't doing his
• 18:37
  job properly. I remember one time he also
• 18:39
  posted like a diary entry he made on his opinion on the
• 18:42
  massacre episode 3 or something it's like.
• 18:44
  He was writing the IT was during the actual broadcast, so he
• 18:47
  wasn't looking at the screen all the time.
• 18:50
  So how does he know what it looks like for his fabulous AIS?
• 18:53
  He has eyes throughout all his head.
• 18:55
  I mean, I dread to think what his AI of Attack of the Sidemen
• 18:58
  would look like if this was ever missing.
• 19:01
  Oh my God, don't tell. He will redo it as I originally
• 19:06
  envisioned. It oh oh.
• 19:11
  I can't even I can't even tell if we're actually just comment
• 19:15
  commentating on the episode anymore if we're just like going
• 19:17
  off topic to different podcast. It's like it tends.
• 19:20
  To happen, Eddie, it does tend to happen.
• 19:22
  Like, say, who cares about Doctor Who stories?
• 19:24
  Let's just go off about an entirely different episode.
• 19:27
  As long as people are having fun with the conversation, who
• 19:29
  cares? I don't care if they're enjoying
• 19:32
  themselves, only if I am. And I am.
• 19:37
  And now I do think right if Stratton Bates, we're a bit
• 19:41
  funnier. Oh, and a bit.
• 19:43
  Nicer. Oh yeah, Why does the why does
• 19:47
  the cyber leader send her off for a costume change?
• 19:52
  It's like. What logic?
• 19:54
  It's logic, isn't it? It's it's colder on tell so that
• 19:58
  you will freeze. We might need you for basically
• 20:01
  meat to get into the cyber suit. I like to think that Perry looks
• 20:06
  a bit like the cyber leader's ex-girlfriend when he was human
• 20:10
  and he's like oh I don't think this costume is doing you any
• 20:12
  good at all. Don't get changed.
• 20:14
  Is she trying to dress up like a doctor's cat?
• 20:16
  Like thing one or thing two or something.
• 20:21
  Look at this. Now look, this is not a bad set,
• 20:24
  but it is in no way the two of the Cybermen.
• 20:28
  Yeah, two of the sidemen was like, actually really good.
• 20:31
  It's like it's not one of my favorite Cyberman stories, but
• 20:34
  it's like it's done like really well with all the defrosting.
• 20:38
  Like that is still one of the best unseen Vault 60s, but like
• 20:42
  this is just like oh this just looks like an average building
• 20:45
  at this point. Covered in a bit of dry ice and
• 20:49
  some cobwebs. Yeah, it's it's better than
• 20:53
  standard AT Cell. I would say on this is a bit of
• 20:55
  style to it behind your consistency that kind of black
• 20:59
  glitter backgrounds. It's like it is icy, it is
• 21:02
  frozen, it is cold. There's some thought gone into
• 21:05
  it. It is believable.
• 21:07
  It is believable. There's a moment in a minute,
• 21:09
  right? Which always makes me jump.
• 21:11
  Now it won't this time, because I've just remembered it's
• 21:13
  coming, where the Cyberman punches his hand out of the out
• 21:17
  of the door and literally decapitates the sideman with his
• 21:20
  fists. Do you remember?
• 21:21
  You mean the client punches the hand out the?
• 21:23
  Door. Oh, was it a client?
• 21:25
  No, it's a sideman, isn't? It I don't remember.
• 21:28
  Because some man being. He's so strong he can punch off
• 21:31
  another sideman's head with his fists.
• 21:34
  I would pay to watch the WWE tournament of just like.
• 21:38
  Yes, me too. It's the cyber leader versus the
• 21:41
  Fat Controller go. Excellent.
• 21:47
  Oh yeah, that would be his saying.
• 21:49
  Now why is he saying we must leave this place?
• 21:53
  Is it because there are rogue Cybermen about the place?
• 21:56
  I presume so because, well, there you go.
• 22:00
  Oh bloody. Yes, definitely.
• 22:02
  Still get you look at. That that's such an and he shows
• 22:07
  Perry passes. The doctor just threw Perry over
• 22:11
  the side and now they're just fighting you.
• 22:13
  Like again, like the end of episode 1, this is ridiculously
• 22:17
  violent. People being decapitated gun.
• 22:20
  Cyberman being decapitated, it's fine.
• 22:23
  It can get by no? But it's like, it's almost like
• 22:25
  so ridiculously violent. It's a bit funny, you know,
• 22:30
  like, and they're trying to choreograph everybody in this
• 22:32
  tiny space. I don't know.
• 22:34
  It's a big camp. What it feels like Perry's just
• 22:37
  trying to look for her next class or something at her
• 22:40
  university or whatever that she's still got see.
• 22:42
  Perry, she's just seen some man twat its way out of a tomb.
• 22:46
  So what's she doing? Oh, put me in close to 1 as
• 22:48
  well. Oh.
• 22:50
  It's a great moment though. Let's just remember Perry's
• 22:53
  still meant to be studying and that she's a botanist or
• 22:57
  something. Well, who are these beautiful
• 23:00
  ladies I see on the screen? Oh, sorry, they've got this.
• 23:04
  It's Bryan Carver now. You know he's still saying
• 23:06
  they're not beautiful ladies. Wow, I actually I said something
• 23:12
  quite mean about Malcolm Clarke, only I do like his cry on the
• 23:15
  theme that. Music.
• 23:20
  It's a bit ethereal, isn't it? It's not as good as Sea Devil
• 23:25
  Steam, obviously. And they've got like rocks which
• 23:28
  are covered in ice and these like, interesting.
• 23:30
  I do think it's visually interesting, this stuff.
• 23:33
  And why are you saying the sea devil seam is so good?
• 23:35
  It's like why are you praising just a bunch of screeching?
• 23:38
  It's like I've heard so many people complain that it's just
• 23:41
  like it's ear jarring and they can't watch the Sea Devils that
• 23:47
  it's like, I've just heard so many they they can't that it
• 23:55
  hurts their ears it. Is very unpleasant on the ears.
• 23:59
  I grew up with Doctor Who's the Music.
• 24:00
  That's sweet. It's the oddest thing you'll
• 24:03
  ever hear on British television. I think do.
• 24:05
  You remember the one, the one where they go down in the
• 24:07
  submarine? It's like, what is he doing?
• 24:15
  He he said music should be like fine art.
• 24:17
  I'm just going, OK, I don't want your idea of fine art.
• 24:20
  Fine art. Fine art.
• 24:23
  I'll still I'll still say space adventure is the best classic
• 24:25
  scene though. Now I want to know though, is he
• 24:28
  right? Because you just mentioned the
• 24:30
  Sea Devils there. Yeah, the Sea Devils is scored
• 24:33
  by Malcolm Clark, and so is Attack of the Cybermen.
• 24:37
  Now, was that just coincidence or did you actually know that?
• 24:40
  I did not know. Oh well done.
• 24:42
  Well, you made an invisible connection then.
• 24:45
  It's like, it's like I just need like Dudley Sense and did
• 24:48
  basically everything. Now they pulled him in every now
• 24:52
  and again and sometimes his scores like enlightenment are
• 24:55
  really good and other times it's the twin dilemma.
• 24:59
  It's like, yeah, it's like for all I knew, it's just like they
• 25:02
  threw Dudley Sense in like every two seconds towards.
• 25:05
  His name on Yeah, apart from Douglas Canfield.
• 25:09
  I bloody love these scenes between Colin Baker and the
• 25:13
  elderly cry on in this room. I think these are to.
• 25:16
  I think Colin plays his scenes with a lightness of touch.
• 25:20
  Thank you for getting us back to the episode, by the way.
• 25:23
  Thank you, I've done a few of these now.
• 25:26
  It's a good faith. Brown is quite a statue, Esly,
• 25:29
  but she gets his kind of delicacy to the performance as
• 25:33
  well. Yeah, you're right.
• 25:36
  You are a Time Lord. She's she's doing the fingers in
• 25:43
  a very sort of I can't what I'm literally doing it on the screen
• 25:47
  now. So this is terrible podcasting.
• 25:49
  What am I trying to say? Beautiful side.
• 25:51
  What am I trying to say? Did you forget this isn't the
• 25:53
  naughty, this is only audio. No, no, no.
• 25:58
  Joe knows what he's doing. Some, I think some of these,
• 26:02
  some of these cry on actors. They're sort of just doing the
• 26:05
  the finger work in a very lazy way.
• 26:08
  But Faith Brown? Well, she's got it.
• 26:13
  Faith Brown's fingers, baby. I think she's got very long
• 26:18
  nails. She'd give you a lovely back
• 26:20
  scratch. Yeah, but can you?
• 26:22
  She could, she should get separate Roly fans or something
• 26:25
  get get the finger work on their face.
• 26:28
  And then it's like, as I say, Cynthia Areeva has perfect
• 26:31
  fingers for a cry on, so cast her in with your big Disney
• 26:35
  budget, Russell. Now, is this Sarah Green here?
• 26:38
  The one who's a bit sniffy. I think yes.
• 26:41
  The one who goes, He rescued you from the Cyberman, that one.
• 26:46
  Yes. I think so.
• 26:49
  I really like these sets with the globes and the rocks and the
• 26:52
  computers. It just looks a bit alien and a
• 26:55
  bit different. And then you just get to see it,
• 26:58
  that person's eyes through their crown costume.
• 27:00
  It's like, yeah, it's like that just reminded me of like how you
• 27:05
  in Spearheaded from Space. At one point you just see one of
• 27:08
  the autumn actors eyes through the costume before they break
• 27:11
  out the window. It's like sometimes it adds to
• 27:14
  the effect, sometimes it doesn't.
• 27:16
  This is one time it doesn't isn't quite integrated and I
• 27:19
  don't think. And it's another one of those
• 27:22
  sort of, you know, when they use bubble wrap in Arkans face
• 27:24
  before bubble wrap was a thing. Well, they've used this fabulous
• 27:27
  sort of reflective crinkly material for the crown's faces.
• 27:33
  Unfortunately, now that's the stuff we use on all of our
• 27:35
  Christmas presents, so. It looks, and it's stuff that
• 27:39
  people use to blow stuff up in the far, far future.
• 27:42
  Yeah, don't forget Kablan. Oh yes, of course, the bubble
• 27:47
  wrap. Arkans face may have started the
• 27:51
  trend but Kaplan made it better because say as I say, I have
• 27:56
  very similar opinions to Mr. John Arnold here on season 12.
• 28:01
  Which is. A very negative overview.
• 28:05
  You're very you're very lucky. Neither of us are on that
• 28:07
  strictly whenever that gets. Recorded.
• 28:09
  Did you leave comments for that one?
• 28:11
  Yes, I did. It's one where I said my
• 28:13
  opinions would be similar. You've liked them, but I'm not
• 28:15
  be. It will be quite controversial
• 28:17
  episode I'm. Sure.
• 28:18
  I'm not. I'm not sure.
• 28:19
  I'm not sure if he noticed because my name on this, not
• 28:22
  Eddie, it's just Eddie because. Oh.
• 28:24
  No, I figured that. Don't you?
• 28:25
  Worry yeah, yeah, my my father keeps calling me it so I just
• 28:29
  want to be. Sure, Eddie, to pick up your
• 28:31
  comments and of course, downplay your dad's.
• 28:34
  Yeah, it's like they're they're pretty.
• 28:38
  And you just said there about kablam and a big explosion.
• 28:41
  Now they wouldn't do anything as lazy as ending this story with a
• 28:44
  Bally big explosion, would they? Yes.
• 28:48
  Yes, they would. Yes.
• 28:50
  I I just love how fatalistic Flast is in this.
• 28:53
  She's just like, she's like, yeah, don't bother.
• 28:56
  You don't. Get past the door, you're
• 28:58
  knackered. We need more characters like
• 29:00
  that. Like gripping where they just
• 29:02
  miserable solids ago. Forget it.
• 29:06
  This crime, just saying. I hate the side men more than
• 29:08
  you could ever know. I think the doctor hates the
• 29:11
  side men quite a lot as well because they just keep popping
• 29:13
  up and ruining his day. But she is great when he gives
• 29:17
  her the Sonic Lance and she's like oh great, now I can blow
• 29:20
  them all up. Well, off you go then.
• 29:21
  I'll do it. I do think it's there's a
• 29:25
  wonderful moment in all of this sort of aggressive violence and
• 29:30
  madness in this episode. There's a wonderful, very still
• 29:33
  moment where the camera pulls away and she's just in the room
• 29:37
  there with the weapon, knowing that she's got.
• 29:40
  And I think that would have been a nice way to leave that
• 29:42
  character, knowing that she's going to blow him up.
• 29:44
  But no, it's Eric Saywood. So of course we've got to see
• 29:47
  her dragged out in the corridor and melted by the end.
• 29:52
  Toby's got to love it though. He loves his heroic self
• 29:54
  sacrifice, isn't he? Well, he didn't like Koshamas
• 29:57
  going that way though, did he? Yes, if it's not well done.
• 30:02
  I'm an old man, I've had my time.
• 30:05
  Yeah, go on, Doctor, That's fine.
• 30:07
  Yeah, fun. Yeah, it's like, Oh yeah, we've,
• 30:10
  Oh yeah, we've got, we've actually caught a show called
• 30:12
  Doctor Who, Not Koshamas Who. Oh, the very idea.
• 30:17
  Is he Koshamas? Who?
• 30:19
  This Coach Armour's the series. I mean, let's do it, yeah.
• 30:24
  With the running plot of The Timeless Child all the way
• 30:27
  through, yes. Oh yeah.
• 30:28
  Oh, that would turn off so many people.
• 30:31
  Now I'm going to do it again, bring us back to the story.
• 30:35
  See, I'm an expert. Now we've got listen.
• 30:38
  And what's Brian Glover's character called?
• 30:41
  Griffiths. Griffiths.
• 30:42
  Yeah, meeting up with Stratton and Bates.
• 30:44
  So it's like, Oh my God, OK, now we've got a team and they're all
• 30:47
  going to get off Mondas to get no Mondas.
• 30:49
  Tell us, tell us together. No, they're all going to be dead
• 30:54
  by the end. Yeah, it's like, hang on, These
• 30:57
  guys are like cyber slaves. You were looking for us?
• 31:00
  Really. Come on.
• 31:03
  Were they? Yeah, these just said, but are
• 31:07
  you strict that Stratner face we were looking for you.
• 31:11
  It's yeah. OK, maybe you're with the cry
• 31:13
  answer, but Oh yeah. Why did why did the L2 basically
• 31:16
  just turn grey out here as well? Did they film the scene in black
• 31:18
  and white or something? Yeah, it's definitely got a
• 31:20
  filter on it, isn't it? Because that's, that's red sand,
• 31:23
  isn't it there? That's that's quite a vivid
• 31:25
  location. Oh, I love this, though.
• 31:28
  Look at that, that cyber hand crushing his hand.
• 31:32
  You didn't. You didn't need to bully him
• 31:34
  like this. Well, Brian, Brian Glove was
• 31:37
  known as the tough guy at you. He's next wrestler so.
• 31:40
  But I didn't know this because I was not alive in the 20th
• 31:43
  century, so that's a bit of a problem there.
• 31:45
  Yes, all right. You'd just be educated.
• 31:48
  That's what it's all about. You know this podcast?
• 31:50
  Yeah, educate. Educating the youth.
• 31:54
  I thought that anyone young listens to this thing, you know?
• 31:57
  I'm fairly sure all the people who listen to this are
• 31:59
  middle-aged men who are doing their work or something.
• 32:03
  Yes, that is, I've seen the demographics and stats so
• 32:07
  guessed absolutely I. Can't deny it.
• 32:10
  That's what I listen to it. But this could be really, I
• 32:13
  really think like these characters sort of teaming up.
• 32:16
  This could be really nice material, and then they could
• 32:19
  get away and it could be nice, you know, Like, why is it so
• 32:23
  fucking fatalistic, this story? Eric Saywood's view of the
• 32:28
  world. And why did?
• 32:30
  Why did? Why do they have to Chuck in the
• 32:33
  occasional alien that calls everyone a child?
• 32:35
  It's like, say you don't. You don't know how old they are.
• 32:38
  They could be older than you. It's like we know Perry for
• 32:41
  longer than you. You're the child in our
• 32:43
  perspective. Sorry you asked for this.
• 32:46
  Tell me more child. Oh, sorry.
• 32:49
  See, this is good point. How do they know what a human
• 32:51
  child looks like? I don't know.
• 32:54
  And it's like. She's not a child either, she's
• 32:56
  in her mid 20s. From from our perspective, these
• 33:00
  these guys are children as well because they've basically just
• 33:02
  been introduced to us so. Do you see these crayons in the
• 33:07
  background here? Behind them in the far distance.
• 33:10
  No idea. How thankless is this for them?
• 33:13
  They've got dressed up. They don't even get a line.
• 33:15
  Yeah. It's in the back, they're doing
• 33:17
  the bit of waving of the hand. Rosalinda Winters, they're
• 33:22
  saying. Come on now, the ethereal hand
• 33:25
  movements of the Cryons. Oh, ice.
• 33:28
  Movement Ice. Movement like if I hadn't
• 33:30
  watched a story in a while I would just say So what do the
• 33:33
  crimes just move their hands about and look he.
• 33:36
  Well, Nelson does the ghost the great lady in the chase, doesn't
• 33:40
  she? So you know.
• 33:41
  They're, they're really trying to do that.
• 33:43
  They're sort of icy people, aren't they?
• 33:45
  But we're not there to be able to do the costumes, are we at
• 33:49
  this point? No, it it does look cheap,
• 33:53
  doesn't it? Now, compared to a lot of the
• 33:55
  rest of production? Unfortunately, there's no word
• 33:58
  you can substitute for cheap in the title like you can with
• 34:01
  Warriors. Warriors of the cheap.
• 34:04
  Warriors of the cheap. I mean, you just see the thing
• 34:06
  around the crown's neck, That sort of plastic thing.
• 34:08
  Yeah. Frosted glass.
• 34:10
  My mom used to serve up afternoon tea on something like
• 34:13
  that. You know, you know, I could, I
• 34:17
  could probably make a better episode than this with just like
• 34:20
  a weekly shopping budget. Well, now you probably could.
• 34:23
  Yeah. Well, you could Add all this
• 34:25
  visual effects you can do at home these days.
• 34:27
  Yeah. Oh, here we go.
• 34:29
  Earth must be destroyed. Oh dear, it must be destroyed
• 34:35
  for the billionth time. Where the hell does that come
• 34:37
  from? Because because it's just
• 34:40
  convenient and it makes it sound more threatening.
• 34:43
  Well, I suppose, I suppose Earth, that's where in 1985,
• 34:47
  that's where we are. Well, not you, Eddie, you're not
• 34:49
  born, but that's where me and John are.
• 34:51
  I'm aged 5 at that point. So I suppose that that is a
• 34:55
  level of peril. But it does seem to just come
• 34:57
  out of nowhere. It's the Russell to Davidson
• 34:59
  that you have to relate it to modern day Earth somewhere or
• 35:02
  you have to have Earth under threat.
• 35:04
  Yeah, it's like, I don't, I don't care about Earth being
• 35:06
  under threat. That's boring.
• 35:08
  Give me another planet under threat.
• 35:10
  But yeah, don't worry, Faith Brown will be long to explain
• 35:12
  why in a moment. Bit of exposition, because
• 35:15
  that's the trouble with I think this this episode is that you
• 35:18
  have this exposition and it just slows it.
• 35:23
  And Matthew Robinson can't do anything with that.
• 35:25
  Well, he's kind of stuck in the studio now as well, isn't he?
• 35:29
  And he's, he's doing what he can dry ice, you know, lighting as
• 35:32
  much action as he can possibly put on the screen.
• 35:35
  But it is very wordy compared to Episode 1 I mean.
• 35:41
  I haven't noticed because the sounds often, I usually, you
• 35:43
  know, just put the sound like, Oh yeah.
• 35:46
  And there's the other bit, the Time Lords.
• 35:49
  Oh God. Continuity.
• 35:51
  Yeah, add a bit more. Don't need it.
• 35:54
  You have moved me into this mess.
• 35:56
  Yes, you have been moved into this mess.
• 35:59
  Like I want I wonder where Russell got his inspiration to
• 36:02
  bring in the Time Lords every two seconds from.
• 36:05
  He doesn't do it every two seconds.
• 36:08
  He brings it I'm the last of the Time Lords every two seconds
• 36:12
  like that. You should see the amount of
• 36:13
  people who just complaining about that season 2 trailer just
• 36:16
  because it had the line I'm the last of the Time Lord.
• 36:19
  They weren't even watching anything else in the trailer.
• 36:20
  They just like Oh no, Doctor says he's lost this time.
• 36:24
  It's boring. Tune out.
• 36:25
  Doctor Who's dead. RIP Doctor Who.
• 36:27
  Fuck this shit. I'm out.
• 36:30
  Eddie, I'm the one person, you know, at the end of Day at the
• 36:33
  Doctor where Stephen Murphy had the goal to bring Gallifrey back
• 36:37
  to life after Rusty Davis, Thank God, destroyed the bloody place.
• 36:42
  And I was like, what are you doing?
• 36:44
  I wasn't there, you know, in Triumphant.
• 36:47
  I was going, what is that man doing?
• 36:49
  It's ruining. RIP Doctor Who.
• 36:54
  If they if they brought Gallifrey back, at least keep it
• 36:57
  because they only end up using it for like hell bent after that
• 37:01
  and then well. I mean, and then why would you
• 37:03
  as well? Like Hell Bent's great.
• 37:08
  It's like it's like a side Hell Bent.
• 37:09
  It's like next time we see it, it's a Timeless Children where
• 37:11
  it's just all destroyed. It's like saying sometimes we
• 37:14
  have stuff like Arc of Infinity where we see Gallifrey used and
• 37:18
  it's like. To be honest, Arc Infinity is an
• 37:21
  argument for the destruction of Gal France.
• 37:23
  It absolutely is, yes. Do you know what, Eddie?
• 37:26
  You took me on a roller coaster of emotions.
• 37:27
  Then you mentioned Hell Ben, and honestly, I felt so depressed.
• 37:31
  Then you mentioned the Timeless Children.
• 37:32
  I was so happy. And then you took me to Arc of
• 37:35
  Infinity and now I'm back being depressed again.
• 37:38
  Yeah, I yeah, I brought you to Arkham Infinity just because we
• 37:40
  have to remember that this is about a Colin Baker thing.
• 37:43
  Oh, that's right. Yes, that is right.
• 37:45
  Well mind you, I mean, I don't think there's a Colin Baker
• 37:48
  story where the Time Lords aren't mentioned at some point,
• 37:51
  obviously 2 doctors. They mentioned a lot, aren't
• 37:54
  they? Mark of the Rani, you've got
• 37:57
  other Time Lords around. And I know it isn't deliberate,
• 38:01
  but you could almost make a case that mentioning them so much
• 38:04
  means that you're leading up to all of that Time Lord politics
• 38:07
  in Trial of a Time Lord, where they're moving planets and doing
• 38:11
  dodgy deals with the Valley Yard and all of that stuff.
• 38:13
  Now, it wasn't planned. It's not like the new series,
• 38:16
  but you can see that reading. I don't care about Time Lord
• 38:19
  politics. Tell me what Time Lords watch
• 38:21
  for entertainment? Do they watch like a time, a
• 38:23
  Time Lord version of I'd know it, a Time Lord version of like
• 38:28
  if who or something where it's just like what do you?
• 38:33
  Want to watch next? Well, I've heard you know that.
• 38:36
  Fabulous Quorum that you have in End of Time, all those time nods
• 38:41
  and all those pods and that with Wrestle on there, they've got
• 38:44
  these sort of megapodic speakers and they all listen to hamster a
• 38:48
  blunt pen knife. Yes, come on.
• 38:51
  What the room they just stole from Revenge of the 5th?
• 38:55
  Yeah, that's the one, yes. Is it?
• 38:57
  Yeah. It's listening to this podcast
• 38:59
  is why they're all a bit mad. Yes, like I can't I can't
• 39:03
  imagine just going into that giant horn, just seeing a giant,
• 39:05
  a giant speaker and it's just like welcome back to have to
• 39:09
  the. I can.
• 39:11
  Oh yeah. Yeah, that's why that Timothy
• 39:14
  Dalton spits on us. That's a terrible thing.
• 39:17
  Imagine them beaming out the hamster theme tune into the
• 39:19
  whole universe. Hamster web of Blum.
• 39:21
  Oh my God. Anyway, let's remember Attack of
• 39:26
  the Cyberman. Oh, yes, that story.
• 39:28
  Yes, that's why we're here. Let's not.
• 39:30
  Yes. Well, the doctor's using his
• 39:33
  fabulous Lance now to get the door.
• 39:34
  Oh this is so funny. He just puts the what's that
• 39:38
  stuff called Vastile. I thought I just thought it was
• 39:41
  an iPhone. And the side man goes, oh,
• 39:44
  what's this? Oh no, my hands on fire.
• 39:48
  This is where I'd love Malcolm Clarke to put a comedy score in.
• 39:54
  Can I just be honest? I thought it was an iPhone for a
• 39:57
  second. Oh no, Do you know what music
• 39:59
  you could have? Partners in?
• 40:01
  Crime. Oh, we score this Murray.
• 40:07
  Go. Come on.
• 40:08
  That's your next. Next time, Murray.
• 40:11
  Like I said, I don't I don't care about in colour.
• 40:13
  Just give us classic Doctor Who rescored by Murray car.
• 40:17
  It is like, OK, I do like attacking assignment.
• 40:20
  Yeah, I, I've, I've said things I like about this, the action,
• 40:24
  all of this. To say you could afford me with
• 40:26
  the amount of things you said, that an action about the story.
• 40:30
  You 2 as well? No, I do, though I do like how
• 40:34
  this skips by. I do like the innovations of the
• 40:36
  Cryons. There's lots of luck about this
• 40:38
  story. And Colin, I think Colin is
• 40:39
  amazingly good in this, but I don't like how he murders off
• 40:44
  everybody in the last episode and I just think ending it all
• 40:47
  on a Big Bang is. Well, it's kind of lazy.
• 40:52
  What's that? What's top 2 without ending it
• 40:54
  on a big explosion? It's like.
• 40:55
  I was going to say, Eric Saywood really loves a bit of Robert
• 40:58
  Holmes, and you can tell because that's all Robert Holmes ever
• 41:01
  does. Well, yeah, it's like it's like
• 41:03
  for for example, you can go, it's like this on Tyre and part
• 41:07
  at the end of time Warrior kaboom.
• 41:09
  The the nesting thing in the speahedron space Kaboom.
• 41:13
  The pyramids of Mars house kaboom.
• 41:15
  Bond of Evil. Boom.
• 41:17
  Yeah, it's like, yeah, literally almost everything in the $0.70
• 41:22
  was an explosion. Oh boy, this is the hand
• 41:25
  crushing scene coming up now. Oh, this is this feels like very
• 41:29
  1980, this room. Yeah, I mean, it looks it.
• 41:33
  Yeah, I think this is too nasty. I, I thought, I just thought it
• 41:39
  was, oh, here we go. It's it's the fact that it's not
• 41:45
  the blood, it's the close up on his face where he's trying to
• 41:47
  resist screaming. That's but yeah, that's exactly
• 41:51
  what it is. It's your reaction shots will
• 41:53
  get you every time. You can get away with that.
• 41:57
  I mean, what the hell was Michael Grade watching when he
• 41:59
  went? Yeah, that's fine.
• 42:00
  Put it out. Like, well, that's I think that.
• 42:03
  They don't have a BBC supervisor.
• 42:06
  That's a problem. Grade and Powell really weren't
• 42:08
  interested in Doctor Who. They were.
• 42:10
  They were quite happy to see it fall away.
• 42:15
  Eric Saywood has that thing about, you know, if you're going
• 42:17
  to show violence, show that it hurts.
• 42:18
  Yes, absolutely do that. But don't make the whole story
• 42:23
  showing people violence that hurts because then you saw it
• 42:26
  blunts the impact. Yeah, I I do have that shot of
• 42:30
  Kilgareth wig. He's just in his face there as
• 42:32
  well. That is really nice.
• 42:34
  He did that intimidating sideman thing, but.
• 42:38
  Yeah, It's like, can I just say this set looks like it could
• 42:42
  have been used as some sort of top of the pop studio?
• 42:46
  I think it maybe it was. Probably the.
• 42:49
  Consoles out, yeah. Most of WHO sets probably were
• 42:53
  somewhere. Yeah, what can I just I can just
• 42:55
  imagine them being on Vortex going.
• 42:58
  Welcome back to Top of the Pops with a Derby just introducing it
• 43:01
  going. I'll watch that as well, you
• 43:06
  know. As I'll be doing the top of the
• 43:09
  pop thing. Oh yeah, there's, I'll be doing
• 43:10
  this dreadful sort of bleeping noises, but in a sort of rappy
• 43:14
  kind of a way. Oh yeah.
• 43:16
  I'm in. I'm in.
• 43:18
  I'll do the wrap for the end of this, all right?
• 43:20
  And I'll put it on. Oh, here we go.
• 43:25
  Look, poor old flashlight. She's like, I should just cross
• 43:28
  my arms. At least you're catching the
• 43:30
  Crown's names. I keep forgetting they actually
• 43:32
  have names. But it's a rare moment to stop
• 43:35
  and feel sad for a character like.
• 43:37
  It's kind of you can get a little humanity for her.
• 43:40
  I think she is one of the few that you can relate to, you know
• 43:43
  a Jews alien, which is. And this is the thing that
• 43:46
  people praise Russell T Davis for all the time.
• 43:48
  It's like saying. Well, well, I think he's a bit
• 43:51
  more adept at. Humanity.
• 43:53
  I mean the humanity in characters.
• 43:56
  Yeah, I guess it's kind of like it's why, you know, Brian
• 43:59
  Glover, I think does work because he is, he's being funny,
• 44:02
  he's being human, he's being relatable.
• 44:05
  None of the others are. And it's all blokes.
• 44:08
  Yeah, there should be a woman there, you know.
• 44:12
  Yeah, and they'll go, Oh yeah, we've got the crowns who are
• 44:16
  basically all female code of female.
• 44:19
  So, I mean, at least they do. They have a bit of action.
• 44:21
  They carry guns and kill Cybermen.
• 44:23
  That's quite fabulous. While glittering.
• 44:27
  Literally. Going very quickly back to the
• 44:31
  hand crushing, I won't make too much on the point of it, but I
• 44:34
  think it is the most viscerally violent moment for the side men
• 44:38
  in the classic series because I think it's.
• 44:40
  I think it's still one of the most violent moments in the
• 44:42
  whole series, like 63 to present day.
• 44:45
  Definitely. When, when do we see that sort
• 44:48
  of level of blood nowadays? I.
• 44:50
  Wouldn't do it. They wouldn't do it now.
• 44:52
  Yeah, tortured, yeah, but that's for like a a post 9:00 audience
• 44:55
  isn't. It well tortured would basically
• 44:57
  just do anything just for laughs and I haven't even seen it, but
• 45:02
  I just know, yeah, sometimes they just do whatever the fuck
• 45:05
  they want. You've seen clips.
• 45:08
  You told me you have. Have I seen You have just
• 45:10
  torture. Oh, you told me you had.
• 45:12
  No, what? What I said was I read the whole
• 45:15
  plot of Children of Birth without seeing it.
• 45:19
  But in the past, like you remember the bit in Tim the
• 45:22
  Sideman when all the foams coming out of the sideman, and
• 45:25
  it is, it's graphic, but it's sort of fantasy violence.
• 45:29
  Exactly that. Robert Holmes moment.
• 45:32
  Oh, this is just, I hate this scene.
• 45:34
  I hate this poor woman being tortured.
• 45:37
  She's taken out into the corridor and we watch her
• 45:39
  protracted scene as she starts melting.
• 45:42
  I mean, why do we want to watch this?
• 45:45
  It's sadistic. It's sadistic.
• 45:46
  That's a problem. Supposed to be the at least
• 45:49
  suppressing emotion, if not emotionless, and they just
• 45:53
  become complete bastards. Oh well, I guess they're getting
• 45:56
  revenge for last time. So where they're just.
• 45:59
  Getting decapitated and shot through the head.
• 46:02
  I know, but she didn't do it. Like that.
• 46:06
  Yeah, yeah, Last episode. They're just getting bastard the
• 46:09
  fuck out of this episode. They aren't tolerating any of
• 46:12
  that anymore. They want to kill everyone else.
• 46:14
  Which which does make them scary, yes.
• 46:18
  And then the way he stands there sort of impassive as she's
• 46:20
  dying. But again, I just think have
• 46:23
  some creative control here. You're not just showing
• 46:25
  violence, you're enjoying showing this violence now
• 46:28
  because it's unnecessary. It's it's revelling in the
• 46:31
  violence is the problem, I think.
• 46:33
  And I think that's maybe a problem with direction as well,
• 46:36
  because Matthew Robinson is used to shooting those more adult,
• 46:40
  more violent shows, and he's been hiding to bring that style
• 46:44
  to an extent. But you need to go, Matthew.
• 46:46
  Just like surely they saw the rushes before.
• 46:50
  I feel like that effect, we just thought to open the door.
• 46:52
  It's just sort of thing I see when I rub my eyes closed.
• 46:56
  It's terrible, isn't it? It's not.
• 46:58
  Not what you see in your eyes, obviously.
• 47:00
  Well, I'm like when I close my eyes and I just rubbed them
• 47:02
  really hard. That's the exact sort of thing I
• 47:04
  say he. Then just being gunned down
• 47:07
  there, Eddie, is that a problem? Like we've been following those
• 47:09
  characters phrases, they've just been murdered and that's it.
• 47:12
  Not. What the problem is?
• 47:14
  In the whole in whole they get. Listed.
• 47:16
  Nothing. Yeah, it's kind of that.
• 47:19
  It's a problem that Eric Saywood's version, though, it
• 47:22
  was fatalistic. It just.
• 47:25
  Cynical. It's cynical, isn't?
• 47:27
  It cynical. Yeah.
• 47:30
  You know, it's you're all going to die.
• 47:31
  What a point. Well, achieve something.
• 47:35
  Tell me why these people, why it's been worth spending time
• 47:38
  with these people? I mean, I don't want to upset
• 47:40
  the pair of you because you've both sort of mentioned that
• 47:43
  you're a bit iffy on Revelation of the Daleks, but I did a
• 47:47
  commentary recently on that story, right?
• 47:49
  And that ends in the same way with lots of people being
• 47:51
  killed, but they're great deaths.
• 47:55
  I I'm, I remember seeing one of your posts on Blue Sky.
• 47:59
  Just saying. Yeah, here's one of my favorite
• 48:01
  stories. 1st 40th anniversary. I'm like, what's so good about
• 48:05
  it? Well, you're going to have to
• 48:07
  listen to the episode and I'll tell you all about it.
• 48:09
  Unfortunately, I don't fit with the age demographic.
• 48:11
  Oh wow, you'll never be educated then, you know, No.
• 48:16
  It's like literally the whole first episode that is just the
• 48:18
  Doctor and Perry taking a little hike in the snow.
• 48:21
  Oh, the characters though. Yeah, but the cat, the guest
• 48:25
  characters, the world building, the wit in the script, stylish
• 48:30
  direction. I could go on.
• 48:32
  To be fair. Novelization.
• 48:34
  I mean to be fair the doctor and Perry are just taking a walk out
• 48:36
  in the park first time as well in episode 1 but.
• 48:39
  But they couldn't bet they could have met Laurence Olivier.
• 48:42
  Revelation has got a massive sense of camp and a sense of
• 48:46
  humour to it that this doesn't have, and I think that papers
• 48:49
  over a lot of cracks because it's the same ending.
• 48:52
  It's a massacre Revelation. I mean, yeah, Revelation Sharks
• 48:55
  has the bloody DJ with a gun. A highly directional ultrasonic
• 49:00
  beam of rock. It kills.
• 49:06
  And and it obviously has it Perry and have probably like
• 49:11
  most sparkly outfit. Oh God, are we going to get that
• 49:15
  side man in a minute who goes Oh my God, guys, run.
• 49:18
  It's a bomb. Is it?
• 49:23
  Is this one the? Is this also one of the Doctor
• 49:25
  Who stories where basically everyone dies as well as like
• 49:28
  the main characters? It's the anti Moffett, everyone
• 49:31
  dies. Well, you should.
• 49:34
  Well, don't you remember Moffett hates it.
• 49:37
  Companions Living. Like, well, he likes to kill him
• 49:41
  off and then bring him back, don't he?
• 49:43
  Well, yeah, it's like say, because when we're at one of his
• 49:46
  like, talks at galley or something, he said he doesn't
• 49:49
  like killing off characters. Well, can you explain why you
• 49:52
  literally just killed off literally all your companions
• 49:55
  and just. Brought them back.
• 49:57
  Brought them back. But they don't like.
• 49:59
  Permanently. That's having your cake and
• 50:02
  eating it, though. You want the drama of the death
• 50:05
  and then the triumph of the return.
• 50:07
  Yeah, it's a law of diminishing returns.
• 50:10
  There's like say Amy and Rory, they don't come back.
• 50:13
  They only get the voice. No at the end.
• 50:15
  Then it's like Clara, she still have to go and die eventually
• 50:18
  Bill, she's been brutally converted into a sideman.
• 50:21
  So she's basically physically dead then?
• 50:24
  You know what, Eddie? The scene where Bill has that
• 50:27
  whole shot into her, that is the most I'll judged scene I think,
• 50:31
  since Lytton's hands crashing. It's just so unpleasant.
• 50:39
  Yeah, and. Silence.
• 50:40
  There there is, yeah, Because obviously that got the whole
• 50:44
  watch along cancelled during lockdown.
• 50:46
  Oh, here we go. Green blood.
• 50:48
  Green goo blood. Oh gosh, now there's now we've
• 50:52
  been very kind about Matthew Robinson, but this hokey cokey
• 50:55
  dance as the sidemen blow up around the.
• 50:58
  Roof It's just the doctor shooting everyone.
• 51:00
  Yeah, and that is sort of misunderstanding what the doctor
• 51:04
  is about, isn't it? Yeah.
• 51:05
  Look at this fella. He's having a great time bro.
• 51:09
  I never use guns. But Tom Baker does.
• 51:12
  And why does he get away with it?
• 51:14
  He gets away using real guns. Where?
• 51:16
  Because he's Tom doesn't. It's because he's Tom Baker and
• 51:19
  everyone loves him. Well, so I think.
• 51:21
  That is equally as bad as this. It main Doom, but Scenes of Doom
• 51:26
  is also a highly entertaining story with lots of great humor
• 51:31
  in it. It's directed well like this is.
• 51:33
  I must help. It's too late, Doctor.
• 51:36
  He's dead. Oh, here's Perry being the
• 51:38
  pessimistic person. But it just means as well the
• 51:41
  doctors triumphant in no way in this story.
• 51:44
  He hasn't saved lit and he hasn't stopped the plan.
• 51:47
  He's he's his plan is basically for that poor woman to commit
• 51:51
  suicide and blow everyone else up.
• 51:53
  Well, well done. It's.
• 51:55
  Like what happens if doctors interview with clock?
• 51:57
  Nothing. And then, well, you did give her
• 51:59
  the. Sonic.
• 52:00
  Here we go. Oh no, we've got to run.
• 52:02
  Rob, everybody run boob. Oh dear, those poor explosions.
• 52:10
  Terrible. Oh, that's quite good though.
• 52:12
  Boom. I think Littons, Littons
• 52:15
  policeman. So I don't think they're already
• 52:17
  tied up. That's it.
• 52:18
  Maybe we want to survive. They're safe.
• 52:21
  Well, let's say they probably get taken away too.
• 52:26
  Well, how about, how about we just charged?
• 52:27
  Like, how about we just say they're probably middle-aged
• 52:30
  back then, so it's like they've probably died by now.
• 52:34
  I've missed did Mischa genuine and he's like you've never met
• 52:37
  Litton before? It's Thatcher that's such a lazy
• 52:40
  Earth. Safe tick.
• 52:41
  Web of time safe tick. Oh, poor Litton tick.
• 52:45
  Right, we've covered everything. Let's go.
• 52:46
  Next story. And then next you're going to
• 52:50
  forget any of this happening. We're going to be Holly jolly.
• 52:53
  Now I've got to be honest. Holly Jo.
• 52:56
  Yeah. Miserable sitting right beside
• 52:58
  on 7. Tortured, Harry went.
• 53:02
  Producing itself. Oh, that's true.
• 53:08
  Yeah, that second episode, it is weaker than the first.
• 53:12
  I do think the first is very good.
• 53:15
  Yeah, and less violent. Yes, yeah, It's just like the
• 53:21
  tone of that second episode is basically everything is shit and
• 53:25
  everyone's going to die and nobody's triumphant and
• 53:30
  everything's going up in a Big Bang.
• 53:33
  Pretty much, I mean. What we learned from.
• 53:36
  That then it's just reminded me of when my I watched the last
• 53:41
  episode of my ball. But my grandparents or is she
• 53:44
  just like turned around after, you know, after Perry, it's all
• 53:47
  ball that oh, I don't like that. So I think you know, casual
• 53:52
  audience who didn't see it much, they had issues, they were
• 53:56
  issues. Can I ask if cyber control was
• 53:59
  just been blown up there, does that mean all the crayons are
• 54:01
  dead as well? Yes, that's too surely.
• 54:04
  Oh, they all, Oh no, they're underground, aren't they?
• 54:06
  In the tombs. But they they, they've been
• 54:09
  bumping off the crayons in the in those other scenes as well.
• 54:13
  So that's just as we know it. Mass slaughter then.
• 54:16
  Pretty much like, say, the two policemen are the only
• 54:19
  characters who actually get out alive.
• 54:22
  Oh my God, that's unbelievable in it, those two policemen that
• 54:25
  go around murdering innocent people, you know, with their
• 54:28
  metal detectors. Yeah, they're they're the only
• 54:31
  to get a life because Doctor bashed them in already.
• 54:34
  I mean, there was still some decent action there and
• 54:37
  atmosphere and the crowns are an interesting stab at doing an all
• 54:42
  female race. I I, I don't think it's beyond
• 54:45
  merit. Episode 2.
• 54:46
  What are you? What are you saying the crowns
• 54:48
  are better than the drop in? Oh, what In the Battle of the
• 54:51
  Female Monsters, the Crowns or the drive ins, have there been
• 54:56
  any more in the hierarchy of female villains?
• 55:01
  I. Don't think we've had another
• 55:02
  one, have we? We have had other female
• 55:05
  villains. But a whole race.
• 55:08
  I don't. Not that I can remember.
• 55:10
  No, I can't think of any either. We would have had some in the
• 55:12
  prison in space. Well, you don't want to know
• 55:14
  about that. All right, Eddie, I'll.
• 55:18
  Explain later. It's hamburger or something.
• 55:21
  It's a lost story from Patrick Troughton's time.
• 55:24
  It's a never filmed script. How many?
• 55:27
  Filmed scripts are there. There were lots around that
• 55:30
  time, yeah. Big Finish are bringing them out
• 55:32
  by the bucket load. And even probably making them up
• 55:35
  as well. Like I said, based based on a
• 55:39
  story that was conceptualized by this person, It's like saying,
• 55:43
  oh, so you're basically just going off that concept and
• 55:45
  making it into what it probably wouldn't have ended up being.
• 55:50
  Well fellas, now like midnight, we're going to have to do our
• 55:53
  free fabulous things. Or John, obviously this time
• 55:56
  you'll be doing free, not fabulous things to recommend
• 56:01
  Attack of the Side Men. We'll go around.
• 56:04
  So we'll start with Eddie, then John, then me.
• 56:07
  So Eddie, what's your first thing?
• 56:09
  Well, I'll just say it's like it it really tries to push the
• 56:16
  violence for any other doctors or I can appreciate that because
• 56:20
  it's like say I, I don't remember many other times we see
• 56:24
  that much blood. It's like, say the most the most
• 56:27
  graphic thing that jumps to mind because I've mentioned it so
• 56:29
  much that reason it's like to spearhead from space casting
• 56:33
  where there's that crash in the blood in the window.
• 56:35
  Like that's the only other time I can recall seeing such a
• 56:39
  graphic scene. But even then that wasn't shown
• 56:42
  with death. What was shown was just like a
• 56:44
  cut. And then here we actually see it
• 56:47
  happening. It's like and.
• 56:50
  We get the reaction of the person.
• 56:53
  Like that, like I said, obviously we don't see the blood
• 56:55
  coming out because they've just got to apply that as makeup.
• 56:59
  Although it's all smeared all over the floor, isn't it?
• 57:01
  Yeah, He's down there. Yeah.
• 57:03
  It's like, And you know, when he's being sabotized, at the
• 57:06
  end, the doctor comes in. Yeah.
• 57:07
  His hands are still dried up with that horrible blood.
• 57:11
  Go wash your hands or something during the filming break, yeah?
• 57:15
  Well John, what's your first anti point about attacking the
• 57:20
  thyman? Let let's go with Malcolm
• 57:21
  Clarke's music in this, because as I said, I.
• 57:24
  Love the sound. But it's everything is just like
• 57:29
  it's underlined in double red, double red pen I.
• 57:33
  Don't know what you're talking about.
• 57:38
  How? Many themes are you 2 going to
• 57:40
  sing today? All of them.
• 57:43
  Joe can do any episode in Doctor history.
• 57:46
  For you, I really know. We've even done the items today.
• 57:51
  OK, if if we're singing teams, just go with anything you can
• 57:53
  think of and sing that. Or anything at all.
• 57:56
  Yeah. OK, OK, I'll do one.
• 57:58
  Let's see if anyone recognizes it.
• 58:11
  What is it? It's all creatures great.
• 58:14
  Yeah, you're out get. There's a modern version.
• 58:17
  It's got a very similar theme on.
• 58:20
  Oh well, we're still in John Nathan Turner territory there
• 58:23
  anyway, yes. I'm going to try one.
• 58:25
  What's wonder? Eddie would know.
• 58:27
  Blake 7. I know that thing.
• 58:34
  Oh my God. Oh sorry, sorry.
• 58:36
  John Wayne totally hijacks your point about the music there by
• 58:39
  singing a load of music. It's great, Yeah.
• 58:41
  It's better than Mark Clark's. For Martin Clark, he, he is an
• 58:45
  experimental composer, essentially.
• 58:48
  And the thing with experiment, sometimes they're going to work,
• 58:51
  sometimes they're not going to work.
• 58:53
  And I don't, I think it shows that he wasn't.
• 58:56
  Doctor doesn't need a subtle composer, but it needs something
• 59:00
  to kind of accentuate the emotion and the face without
• 59:03
  just scrolling all over it and just say double underlined.
• 59:08
  I think yellow highlighted neon. So yeah, Malcolm Clarkson or
• 59:13
  just does not work for me on this despite my love of the
• 59:17
  city. Devils me.
• 59:18
  Why is he giving a negative point here?
• 59:19
  I'm I'm meant to have been educating you to like this
• 59:22
  story. I didn't say all three were
• 59:24
  going to be negative. Oh, that's true.
• 59:26
  Well, no, because last time you remember when we did midnight,
• 59:30
  yours was negative and John's was positive, but you throw in
• 59:33
  one positive as well. I threw in a couple positive.
• 59:36
  I walked up. Well, my first positive is Colin
• 59:39
  Baker, who I think handful of heartbeats to a Time Lord is
• 59:43
  fabulous, especially in Episode 1 where he's just raring to go.
• 59:47
  You can. See and knocking out police.
• 59:49
  Knocking out police, you know, shoving his Sonic Lance in the
• 59:52
  side men is just great. And he's got the best job in the
• 59:56
  whole universe and he's having wonderful fun being a bit a bit
• 1:00:01
  violent, a bit funny. And just hugely capable.
• 1:00:06
  I love him. That just makes me think, how
• 1:00:09
  much time does the sex doc to get in prison for the slaughter
• 1:00:12
  he's committed? Like burning two people alive in
• 1:00:14
  an acid bath, Punching up a bunch of police.
• 1:00:16
  Well, they tried to put him on trial but failed.
• 1:00:20
  It's like, it's like that. Sure.
• 1:00:22
  And they nearly gave him the death penalty for writing out
• 1:00:24
  the verbal so. Yeah, and they were very
• 1:00:27
  annoying. So I think he'd get multiple
• 1:00:30
  death sentences. That means we'd skip over McCoy,
• 1:00:35
  Paul, McGann. They'd all be gone if they had
• 1:00:37
  multiple death sentences. Oh, well, I mean, to be fair,
• 1:00:42
  I'm I'm sure my father's glad that didn't happen, because if
• 1:00:45
  there was no McCoy, he wouldn't like this show anymore.
• 1:00:47
  Oh well, Eddie, what's your second your second favourable
• 1:00:53
  point? The Cybermen, like in the first
• 1:00:57
  episode they're, they're like absolutely funny, getting like
• 1:01:00
  slaughtered to death, like shot through the face, bash their
• 1:01:04
  head off. Then in the second episode
• 1:01:06
  they're like, no, we're not tolerating any of this.
• 1:01:09
  We can't have it. That's just crush people's hands
• 1:01:13
  that murder some females, etcetera, etcetera and then
• 1:01:19
  without get blown up. Let's run out here quickly.
• 1:01:23
  You go on a journey with them, right?
• 1:01:24
  Yeah, it's like, and, and it's like, say, even though we can't
• 1:01:29
  hear it, it's like, say, the and the voice acting just makes it
• 1:01:33
  even more hilarious. I can't take David Banks
• 1:01:37
  seriously as a sideman most of the time.
• 1:01:40
  Mark will kill Gareth as well with his robotic voice.
• 1:01:44
  It's very funny. OK, John.
• 1:01:48
  Well, back to you. I'm going to go with positive
• 1:01:50
  and I will choose Brian Glover. I think he is in a story which
• 1:01:56
  is cynical, fatalistic and really quite nasty.
• 1:02:01
  He's a rare human element. He is funny, he is kind of
• 1:02:08
  bemused. He's playing it like a normal
• 1:02:11
  role and it's, it's lovely. And you can.
• 1:02:14
  He's the one character I'm really, really sad for when he
• 1:02:17
  died. Russell T Davis before Russell T
• 1:02:20
  Davis. Russell T Davis is a bit funnier
• 1:02:23
  with his with his death. I don't.
• 1:02:27
  Know Linda with AY oh it's. But yeah, but you like her
• 1:02:31
  again. Human character and you.
• 1:02:32
  Do like her. She's been promised an
• 1:02:35
  adventure, and boy does she get one.
• 1:02:37
  She. Gets down.
• 1:02:39
  The window and if and if I had a if I got a pound for every time
• 1:02:44
  Russell T Davis ejected a character out of an airlock
• 1:02:47
  window, I would have 2 lbs. Oh yeah, we've already come from
• 1:02:50
  one of those, haven't we? Yeah.
• 1:02:52
  My second point then is going to, I'm going to go positive,
• 1:02:54
  negative, positive. So my negative is I just don't
• 1:02:59
  like the unimaginative nature of wiping out everybody in a second
• 1:03:03
  episode. I think it's lazy.
• 1:03:05
  I don't like calling writers lazy, but I think in this case
• 1:03:08
  it is. I just can't be asked to tie up
• 1:03:11
  this story and give these characters a satisfying ending.
• 1:03:14
  So I'm just going to show that the universe is a really shitty
• 1:03:17
  place and kill them all. And that's not fun.
• 1:03:21
  And it takes the hero out of the Doctor as well, and I don't like
• 1:03:25
  that either, so. Yeah, as I was basically saying
• 1:03:27
  with Midnight. Well, I'm speechless again about
• 1:03:32
  that, but yes, as will the Strictly contributors be on the
• 1:03:37
  day when? Well, I've already told you what
• 1:03:39
  I'm going to do, but I'll, I'll leave that as a surprise.
• 1:03:41
  What in the season 12 stuff or series 4B?
• 1:03:47
  Series 4B. Spoilers.
• 1:03:51
  Eddie, for your last one, are you positive or negative?
• 1:03:55
  How about yeah, I'll just go. It's like the negative is like
• 1:03:59
  say, why does it all just like it feels like first episode
• 1:04:04
  feels like a really nice build up and then the second one is
• 1:04:07
  just really cramped as well. And it's like say, I'll add on
• 1:04:11
  to this as well. It's like why is tell off now in
• 1:04:14
  1985 as well like. The side men have a time shift.
• 1:04:19
  Yeah, it's like. As Flash would explain if we had
• 1:04:21
  the sound. Yeah, it's like, yeah.
• 1:04:24
  It's like say since we didn't have the sound, it's like I I
• 1:04:27
  never get it was like why just tell suddenly have a time
• 1:04:30
  machine just travel back. It's like what Telus is like
• 1:04:33
  originally like 500 years in the future or something from 60s and
• 1:04:38
  then here it's in 1985. So I'm not sure if that implies
• 1:04:43
  1985 is 500 years in the future. I thought you were saying is it
• 1:04:47
  1985 because those sets are like top of the poppers ones.
• 1:04:51
  Oh yeah, John. Right.
• 1:04:58
  I'm going to say essentially just the messy, horrible
• 1:05:03
  storytelling. I don't mind a cynical, a nasty
• 1:05:08
  tongue and stuff, but I think it's got to be earned and I
• 1:05:11
  don't think it ever is because the stakes I don't think are
• 1:05:15
  particularly clear towards the end of the story.
• 1:05:18
  I think storytelling is messy. It takes in danger job.
• 1:05:22
  Just all in one line. Oh, were they all of a sudden
• 1:05:25
  why? That should have been clear all
• 1:05:27
  along how it related and it isn't up to that point where you
• 1:05:30
  oh, I'll put an extra of jeopardy so continuity is
• 1:05:33
  substituted for a plan. Why does it matter now?
• 1:05:37
  I don't care what mattered back in 1960.
• 1:05:41
  You know, 66. It's it should be immediately
• 1:05:46
  directly relevant and just checking in, you know, Halley's
• 1:05:49
  Comet because Hallie Comet was around at the time chucking in,
• 1:05:52
  you know, tell us. They had to make it feel
• 1:05:54
  current. Yeah, and, and Oh yeah, the time
• 1:05:58
  laws popped you over here, Doctor, Really everything.
• 1:06:02
  It's kind of everything just chucked in, not mixed together
• 1:06:08
  and just served up in a really on a really nasty style.
• 1:06:13
  I just can't take that tone without a story of commensurate
• 1:06:19
  weight. Now, I'm assuming you feel the
• 1:06:22
  same way about the start of Name of the Doctor as well.
• 1:06:24
  You know, back to when the Doctor left Gallifrey and then
• 1:06:28
  popping about all the Doctors. Oh, that continuity.
• 1:06:30
  Now I'm just being facetious because.
• 1:06:35
  I know I don't take any. I don't take any standard great
• 1:06:39
  intelligence story, sorry. I'm.
• 1:06:43
  Not that big on name. Name the Doctor.
• 1:06:45
  Even even though I have the opinion, Even though I have it's
• 1:06:47
  the opinion that the Abominable Snowman is better than the web
• 1:06:50
  of fear, which most people will disagree with is the.
• 1:06:52
  Great intelligence in Name of the Doctor.
• 1:06:55
  Yes. OK, and it's very unmemorable
• 1:06:58
  because I can't even remember. You don't remember the Whisper
• 1:07:01
  Men. The.
• 1:07:02
  Whisper Men. Who are the Whisper Men?
• 1:07:04
  And River Song. Try and forget about her as much
• 1:07:08
  as I can. Oh, you know, the whisper man,
• 1:07:10
  The whisper man, The whisper man.
• 1:07:11
  Who are the Whisper Men? They had like no eyes and they
• 1:07:15
  were pale white. That's all I can remember.
• 1:07:18
  And they had top hats. Teeth.
• 1:07:20
  Yeah, they looked like kind of funeral directors, but.
• 1:07:23
  I'm getting nothing, I'm sorry. Yeah, you know, this is, you
• 1:07:28
  know, This is why I don't, I don't remember if you don't yet,
• 1:07:31
  but it's like, did you do the 7B hamster yet?
• 1:07:34
  I did, I watched it and this is how.
• 1:07:37
  This is how bland that episode is.
• 1:07:41
  How do you not remember that when you'd done a whole podcast?
• 1:07:43
  I mean, so I've got to go back and watch it again.
• 1:07:46
  Wow. I tend not to rewatch those ones
• 1:07:48
  too much. My turn around, it was John.
• 1:07:53
  I remember the ending. Yeah, I do.
• 1:07:54
  Remember that? Yeah, that's.
• 1:07:56
  All that's all you need, really, for Diana, Dr. innit you?
• 1:07:58
  Know they should have just had the Yeti instead of the whisper
• 1:08:00
  man. Sorry, I've certainly hijacked
• 1:08:03
  your point about continuity. And now we're in the Mafia era.
• 1:08:06
  Yeah, my last point then is going to be positive, and it's
• 1:08:10
  again going to be about Matthew Robinson, who I think has to
• 1:08:13
  deliver an extraordinary amount of action on a piss poor budget.
• 1:08:19
  And for the most part, there's a few pony moments, mostly when
• 1:08:24
  he's stuck in the studio, but when he's on location, I think
• 1:08:27
  it's as as good as some action Doctor Who set pieces get.
• 1:08:32
  So yeah, I think I think he does a terrific job with the suspense
• 1:08:37
  and the scares in Part 1 as well.
• 1:08:39
  Those POV shots of the from the side man murdering people or
• 1:08:43
  things like that. It's it's really well put
• 1:08:45
  together. You know, had this been Pennant
• 1:08:48
  Roberts or somebody, God knows how this would have ended up,
• 1:08:53
  but you've got Matthew Robinson. So I think on a level of just
• 1:08:56
  watching this superficially, I think this this gets a good
• 1:09:00
  pass. Yeah, I think it again, TV being
• 1:09:04
  collaborative member, a director can rescue a writer or a writer
• 1:09:08
  can even give a director material to make them look
• 1:09:10
  better than they are. So yeah.
• 1:09:12
  And I think he gets boxes from all the actors, even if I don't
• 1:09:16
  necessarily like what they're doing.
• 1:09:19
  Yvonne, Michael Gil Gamrif. Yeah, at the end with his disco
• 1:09:23
  dancing, it's. Beautiful.
• 1:09:26
  Well, boys, I mean, I think you know what's it been 2 1/2 hours
• 1:09:30
  we've covered attack assignment in some depth there where on Oh.
• 1:09:34
  Midnight. Are we going next?
• 1:09:36
  Oh, thank you. I don't know.
• 1:09:38
  Next. I know where we're going, the
• 1:09:39
  hex. I mean, I've lost the list,
• 1:09:41
  John, you tell us. Well, Eddie wanted to suggest we
• 1:09:45
  go to Wales and Wales, Wales and go to the hungry earth and cold
• 1:09:51
  blood. Oh, boy.
• 1:09:53
  OK, wait. OK, let's just set some ground
• 1:09:55
  rules on this before we even make plans, All right, so who?
• 1:10:00
  Who is doing the positive and the negative on this one?
• 1:10:02
  I'm positive. I'm not, yeah.
• 1:10:06
  Oh, it's being John this time, because I don't like that one at
• 1:10:10
  all. OK, well, Eddie, you need to
• 1:10:12
  bring bring everything for this one, all right?
• 1:10:15
  Just to prove us wrong. Well, just to prove that it's
• 1:10:18
  the best Silurian story. I mean, this is one of several
• 1:10:24
  times where I've been speechless in this commentary.
• 1:10:26
  It's so rare. I, I disowned him for this.
• 1:10:29
  I I could forgive it if it's worried, just worries indeed
• 1:10:32
  there. But no.
• 1:10:33
  We have sort of made an oral contract within this at 2 1/2
• 1:10:37
  hours that we may touch. We may go to Paris at some
• 1:10:40
  point, but let's see how we get with the plans of that one.
• 1:10:45
  Like this is This is why you that I I think that you should
• 1:10:49
  be scared if you ever decide to bring me on to strictly because
• 1:10:52
  I would just bash everyone out there.
• 1:10:56
  Yeah, I believe it. All right.
• 1:11:00
  Put him on with Paul Quinn and you would never get a story.
• 1:11:02
  Going boy, the controversy and that I'll be cancelled.
• 1:11:08
  Well, fellas, thank you very much for your time tonight.
• 1:11:12
  It's a good one to talk about that because there's definite
• 1:11:15
  strengths and weaknesses. I just flew by, frankly.
• 1:11:19
  Where's the evening gone? Until then, we return to watch
• 1:11:23
  Matt Bloody Smith in The Hungrier.
• 1:11:27
  What's the second part called? Thank you very much.
• 1:11:31
  The best Silerian story of all time, apparently.
• 1:11:36
  I will make my point. Thank you very much for your
• 1:11:40
  time chaps. My pleasure and his probably.