Latest / Book Flood Podcast / Sarah Lamdan on Defending the Freedom to Read (E77)
Transcript
- Tom Nixon: Welcome to the Book Flood Podcast. I am your host, Tom Nixon. My guest this week is Sarah Lamdan Sarah is the Executive Director of ALA's Office of Intellectual Freedom and the Freedom to Read Foundation. She is both a lawyer and a librarian. Welcome, Sarah. Sarah L.: Hi, it's great to be here. Tom Nixon: Thank you so much for joining me today. Sarah L.: Thanks for having me. Tom Nixon: absolutely. Can you talk a little bit about your career trajectory? How did you get to here? Sarah L.: That's a good story. it's a good question. So I was I was going to law school and a professor asked me to be his research assistant and he sent me to the archives to do some research. And while I was in the archives, I fell in love with the people like with that job. I was like, this is very cool. So I started going to library school at the same time as law school. And I graduated and became a law librarian and ultimately worked at a law school where I started where I was teaching legal research. I started to teach more substantive legal courses like administrative law, data privacy law, but it was all courses about information law. Like that's kind of what I considered all of my work. And I started doing a lot of research and writing about information. and the law. And then this role opened up and I applied for it. And I feel so fortunate to be doing this work, especially right now. Tom Nixon: Excellent. How did the Freedom to Read Foundation come into existence? Sarah L.: So the Freedom to Read Foundation is a litigation-focused organization that really came into existence as a result of censorship litigation in the libraries. I believe it was the PICO decision. I think that was like the fulcrum where things kind of turned and the Freedom to Read Foundation became a more pressing concern. So It's an organization that really it it's separate from the American Library Association, but its work is also related to libraries and the freedom to read in libraries. And it is led by librarians and advocates who believe that there is a right to read in libraries and work to support and protect that right. Tom Nixon: And how does this re relate to your other full-time job? Because you were also the executive director of ALA's Office of Intellectual Freedom as well. I don't know how you do both of those, but tell us a little about that. Sarah L.: Yeah, it's interesting because every d every Office for Intellectual Freedom director since Freedom to Read Foundation became an organization has been also a director of the Freedom to Read Foundation. So this is something that I'm kind of new to. But a lot of the work That we do at the Office for Intellectual Freedom. So the Office for Intellectual Freedom is within the ALA and it is an organization that helps members in communities learn about intellectual freedom. So the mission of the Office for Intellectual Freedom is really one of education and of support. So supporting library workers when censorship questions and issues come up and helping the members of the American Library Association Association set the standards for libraries around intellectual freedom. I think of us kind of as the establishment that empowers people to do intellectual freedom and to protect intellectual freedom. And the Freedom Treat Foundation is much more kind of I don't want to say active. They're both very active. But it it really is focused on what is happening in the courts and challenges that are happening in real time with litigation. and and the other thing about the Freedom Tree Foundation is they work on library censorship issues, but they also are kind of keeping an eye on more general and larger issues of freedom of expression and censorship. So I think of it kind of as a Venn diagram. There's plenty of overlap, especially with the wonderful people that we work with and the gifted library workers who have dedicated their lives to intellectual freedom. A lot there's a lot of overlap there, but at the core, the missions of the two organizations and what they do on a daily basis are different. Tom Nixon: Hmm. you you do have that unique work in education history that you you touched on. How does being a lawyer and a librarian inform your day to day work? Sarah L.: it's really amazing. So when I was a librarian, I always kind of hungered for the analytics of and the the the reasoning that I did in law school, right? Like I missed the analytical, theoretical discussion that used to go on in law school. I loved being a librarian. And then when I was a law professor, I really, really missed libraries. And this job is amazing and perfect because it combines both. And I get to work with lawyers and librarians all day, every day. So it's actually, it kind of feels like coming home. Like I went out and explored all of these different things. And then I came back to kind of the essence of what I think supporting librarians looks like. and what I think kind of I think a lot of us think of intellectual freedom as a core concept of librarianship, right? Like the ability to search and access information. and So I I feel a great amount of pride in in doing this work. Tom Nixon: what motivates you to be such a high profile advocate for freedom to read? Sarah L.: So one thing that I became aware of when I was actually a law professor is the way in which when different people have different abilities to kind of show up because of different levels of protection. Like when I was a law professor, I had academic freedom. So I felt like I could do things and say things that other library workers Who didn't have that protection, right? They could get fired from their job for saying what they think or for doing certain things. I felt like I had kind of a duty and an opportunity to represent them, right? And to represent other people who maybe didn't have as much of that kind of protection. And I feel the same way now. Like I don't work as a librarian. I work in a library association, right? So I work as somebody who helps librarians and provides opportunities to librarians and library workers. So I get to speak from a vantage point that maybe sometimes they can't. And I take that responsibility really, really seriously. because I understand how confusing, scary, tenuous it can feel to have concerns in your library, but not be sure, you know, if you're allowed to address them or if it's safe to address them. So yeah. Tom Nixon: We have seen a lot in the news of late about lawyers versus attorneys versus where where you are where you've passed the bar or not past the bar as the case may be. now you were a law professor in New York. Sarah L.: Yes, I was. Tom Nixon: And and but now you're in Chicago? Sarah L.: No, I still I'm still in New York. Tom Nixon: Are you? But running on Chicago time apparently. got it. Sarah L.: Yes, I guess everything is control. Tom Nixon: No, I go to Chicago at least a couple of times a year. It's a lovely Sarah L.: Okay, thank you. Tom Nixon: city. I have grandchildren there and that's Sarah L.: Great. Tom Nixon: so so where are you licensed to practice law? Sarah L.: I'm licensed in New York. Tom Nixon: In New York. how should libraries and librarians address the very real concerns about book banning in America? Sarah L.: So one thing that I keep in mind l is that librarians and library workers are are the people on the ground, right? They are in their communities and when censorship challenges happen, they happen to them, right? Like we hear about them happening, but these people are the ones whose jobs are at risk and the ones sometimes unfortunately whose safety or well-being is at risk, right? So there's this concept called vocational awe that was actually a concept that was coined by a librarian named Vobazi Attar. And it's this idea that librarians can be convinced that they need to kind of carry the weight of the world on their back. Like their job is so special and they have, you know, it's so important. They're like the priests of information or, you know, the m-the- the doctors of information. But that puts a lot of pressure on library workers. And that goes back to your prior question about why I do what I do is because I want them to know that we're here for them and other advocates are here for them. because that's how that's how we can help one another deal with censorship challenges. And sometimes like because the American Library Association sets the standards for how to make sure that everybody can, you know, access information in a library and everybody can, you know, avail themselves of intellectual freedom in libraries. we can also help in, you know, help people when they have sticky questions about what to, you know, what how they should approach censorship-related situations or when they believe that there might be an instance of censorship in their library. So we're there both to help and also to offer that support because when censorship happens in your library and you're that the librarian, it Is a very emotional and complicated situation. Tom Nixon: exactly. Won once upon a time I led library services for a large school district, about ninety libraries, and There was a time though where things flipped because I went years and had almost no complaints about books and then all of a sudden it was a lot. Sarah L.: Yeah, we we can, cause we track my office actually has been tracking censorship attempts and censorship in libraries since the nineties, and you can see where the numbers dramatically change. It's right after COVID. people turn their attention to libraries and it has been very, very busy ever since. Tom Nixon: And it is it o continues to be on an upward swing? Sarah L.: Yeah. so what we're seeing is kind of the same types of organizations that were trying to, you know, that were Trying to disqualify professional healthcare providers, they have turned their attention to educational centers and libraries. So the same support, what I don't, you know, whatever kind of support it is, political support that had been driving that push is now being directed at libraries. So it's kind it it can feel a bit there's a lot of of pressure and it hasn't diminished. Tom Nixon: Right. it's been interesting to I'm sure you know of Amanda Jones and her book That Librarian. It's been interesting to follow the progression of that. I've had her on the podcast a couple of times and a little bit the craziness seems to get worse and with very little end in sight. Sarah L.: Yeah, I think that they there's just there's a lot of financial power and political power that that can make it feel relentless, right? Because we're, most of us are we're professional librarians, professional educators, and we're just doing our job. our job is to try to help the members of our community, like Amanda did, right? In its in her school. She was trying, but but We don't have an organized campaign. we have libraries, which are amazing and wonderful, but we we aren't a political movement. We aren't, we aren't nationally funded in that way. we're just we're just a public institution that's there for people. So it's really, really hard to s when there's an organized kind of political push against libraries, you know, how How do we keep from burning out and keep from, being s you know, being scared or being pushed back. I mean, Amanda is so brave and Tom Nixon: Right. Sarah L.: bold, right? And It's not, that's not something that everybody feels comfortable doing that can be done in every community, yet these censorship pushes are happening in there are so many communities where this is happening that it it feels like a constant kind of game whack-a-mole, you know, with with a huge board of moles that's that and and only one mallet, right? It's it's hard to keep up. Tom Nixon: it's interesting that you said happening everywhere. I'm I'm in California, and you would think, well, that can't possibly happen here. Well, I can assure you that not only does it, but I'm in Fresno County, and they just had a whole thing where the county supervisors were talking seriously about privatizing the libraries. it seems to have backed off temporarily. But i in if it's happening in California, a little bit it can happen anywhere. Sarah L.: Yep, it's happening in New York. yeah, it it's Tom Nixon: Another place you wouldn't imagine. Sarah L.: Yeah. Place everybody says, well, that's not happening in my community, but have you checked, right? Have you been by your library? Have you talked to your library librarians and your educators? Because it's easy to not know unless you're going to library board meetings or school board meetings. It's easy to miss this. Tom Nixon: What does your average day look like? Sarah L.: Hmm. Every day is different. It's it's really different than than teaching, which is has been a it's been a fun switch, but also this is far more every day every day has a has a different texture to it based on what is going on in the world, right? Some days Tom Nixon: Mm. Sarah L.: are you know are more education focused, right? We're doing continuing education or we're having sessions where we we're going to library conferences and doing s doing programs. But a lot of it feels more like kind of putting out fires because of the fast moving and serious nature of all these challenges. so it really it's it's meeting with our partners. we we don't work alone, right? We work in partnership with organizations like Pan America and every library and all of the freedom to read organizations and all of the states and la state library associations. So it's a lot of it's a lot of having conversations and it's a lot of helping library workers with a whole range of censorship challenges. Tom Nixon: What would people be surprised to learn about you? Sarah L.: Hmm. good. I am getting my master's degree in creative writing. Tom Nixon: Another degree. Sarah L.: I know, I know. I don't I do Tom Nixon: Mm-hmm. Sarah L.: not need another degree. but it is very f it is it is a lot of fun. But I have always liked reading and writing. I mean I is that is that one reason people become librarians? Like I don't know, did you like why did Tom Nixon: A little bit Sarah L.: you become a librarian? Yeah. Tom Nixon: A little bit, a little bit. Sarah L.: Yeah. Tom Nixon: where are you doing the program at? Sarah L.: Sarah Lawrence College in New York. Tom Nixon: nice. Sarah L.: It's wonderful. Tom Nixon: Is there a book or a series of books from your childhood that still resonate with you? Sarah L.: the babysitter club. The babysitters club was my number one, you know, although I don't do a lot. I'm I'm a parent now, so I don't do like you know, unless par unless you consider parenting like forever babysitting. But yeah, I I don't, you know, have the babysitter club ethos anymore. But that series meant so much to me as a child. And I think it was it wasn't the babysitting aspect, it was the friendship aspect, right? The idea that there Tom Nixon: Mm. Sarah L.: were these They taught me how to be a good friend or what to aspire to as a as a friend. And that it meant a lot to me and like it still sticks with me. I yeah. I I of course I loved all sorts of other literature when I got to like college and you know, read all of these amazing works by like Ralph Ellison, Steinbeck, you know, all of the big things you read. however, Tom Nixon: Right. Sarah L.: the Babysitters Club. Tom Nixon: you that this is one of those questions I ask everybody, because I think everybody should have an answer for this. Babysitters Club does pretty well. Hardy Boys and Nancy Drew does pretty well. Little House on the Prairie does pretty well. Must be asking people about the same age. I don't know, but Sarah L.: Yeah yeah, you're getting the right some agree. Yeah, you're getting we're all yeah but the babysitters club went on for a really long time. That series stretched Tom Nixon: yeah. yeah. Sarah L.: years. Yeah. Yeah. Tom Nixon: definitely. what are you reading now? Sarah L.: gosh. One very cool benefit of taking an of being in an MFA program is you read so much. I am actually finishing The American Wife by Curtis Sittenfeld. It's so fascinating because it's a book. It's a it's a novel, it's a you know fictional, but it's very closely based on a particular president's wife, first lady. And it's it's fascinating the way she braided the real world in with this fictional story about a a woman and her romantic life and her marriage. So I'm reading that. Actually I'm rereading The Librarian by Amanda or That Librarian by Amanda Jones, because I'm writing an essay about librarians and she of course just wrote such a wonderful book. Tom Nixon: She is a she is a rock star. Sarah L.: I know. Tom Nixon: and her book tour it never seems to end because that she's always going out to yet one more place and no, which is good. We need that. Sarah L.: I think so. She she's so good at speaking about these issues and she's just she's just not only is she very, very good at speaking about the you know, censorship and what happened to her, she's also just delightful. So it's wonderful. Tom Nixon: Right. Sarah L.: Like it's what I never want her to stop. Yeah, I never want her to stop talking about these issues unless she wants to. Tom Nixon: Right. Well and she catches some grief, that's for sure. Right. Sarah L.: Yep. Yes. Tom Nixon: Yeah. more power to her. I I don't know how well I would do in that situation. It's it's rough. Sarah L.: I'm and and that's why it's so important for for us to build a community of support, which is something I've only been at Freedom Tree Foundation and the Office for Intellectual Freedom for a sh, you know, relatively short time. But in that time, I've really tried to focus on making sure that people who are in situations like Amanda's know that they have support and a lot of it. 'Cause can't do it alone. Tom Nixon: absolutely not. It is so much a team effort. If a Sarah L.: Yeah. Tom Nixon: person wanted to financially support one organization that promotes literacy, where would you recommend? I mean there's ALA, of course. Sarah L.: I I would of course recommend the American Library Association. and because I'm so censorship focused, I really think that right now, supporting kind of civil rights organizations that do free expression work are also are just any of them. We all work together, any of them. But of course, if you want to support library workers, either the American Library Association or your state library association. Tom Nixon: Hm. the only one I would add, and I say this all all the time, is every library. Yeah. Sarah L.: Yeah. Yeah. They're they're definitely in the on the list of people who are supporting free expression and the freedom tree. Tom Nixon: Absolutely. I want to thank you so much for being on the podcast today. For our listeners and watchers, please remember to like, subscribe, and share. And again, thank you so much, Sarah. Sarah L.: Yeah, thank you. And thanks for, you know, giving everybody the opportunity to tell their censorship and freedom to read stories.