Latest / The Inspired Speaker Network / Bringing Your Whole Self: Rethinking Professionalism Neurodivergence & Midlife Feat Gretchen Wegner

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Bringing Your Whole Self: Rethinking Professionalism Neurodivergence & Midlife Feat Gretchen Wegner · The Inspired Speaker Network

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Your travels have brought you to the Surfing Your Edge podcast,
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where we explore what it takes to create the bigger,
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bolder, badass life you know you were born for.
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Not a life that simply looks good on paper,
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and not another spin on the self-help hamster wheel.
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If you're ready for more joy, more peace, and more contribution,
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you're in the right place.
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I'm Kristine Goad, the Surfing Your Edge coach.
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Let's get surfing.
0:37
Gretchen Wegner is the founder of the Anti-Boring Learning Lab,
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where she helps educators and coaches understand the brain science
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behind study strategies that work and executive function skills
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so they can make learning more effective and a whole lot less boring
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for their students.
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I've had the privilege of working behind the scenes
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in Gretchen's business for many years,
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which means I've also had a front row seat
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as she surfed her edge again and again,
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both personally and professionally.
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I've watched her question old assumptions,
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experiment with new ways of working,
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grow a business that reflects more of who she actually is,
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and keep asking some pretty brave questions
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about what she wants next.
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So I knew I wanted to have Gretchen on Surfing Your Edge
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not just to talk about the work she does,
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but also to talk about what it looks like
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to become more fully yourself along the way.
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In this conversation, we'll talk about
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bringing your whole self to your work,
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learning in public, neurodivergence,
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and changing needs as we get older,
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and that very midlife question,
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do I want the rest of my life to look the way it looks right now?
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Here's my conversation with Gretchen Wegner.
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All right.
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I am so excited to have Gretchen Wegner with me today.
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Gretchen is someone I've known for several years
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in a very specific capacity,
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and it's really fun to get to talk to her outside of work.
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So hello, Gretchen,
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and thank you so much for jumping on here with me today.
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Hi there, Office Wiz.
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Yes, that is my secret identity.
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I'm Office Wiz in the back end of Gretchen's
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anti-boring learning lab business.
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So a lot of times people don't know who I am,
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and every once in a while I kind of pop out
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and people can see my face.
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But yeah, so I've been in the back end
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of Gretchen's business for many years,
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and one of the reasons I wanted to talk to you today, Gretchen,
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is that as the Surfing Your Edge coach,
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I have watched you surf several edges,
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and you have inspired me to even take
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my own edge surfing a little bit farther.
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Ooh, sharper edges, huh?
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Yes.
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So let me just say, one of the things I love about you
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is you own a small business
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that you've been building basically on your own
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for a couple decades.
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Almost, I mean, 15 years, yeah.
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Yeah.
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And you have a way of really bringing,
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when I was getting out of college
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and looking for my first job,
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I went to work for a social change organization,
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and their whole thing was about bring your whole self to work,
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and I was really excited about that.
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And then when I got to work, I realized
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they meant bring this much of yourself to work.
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The whole part of this tiny little part of yourself.
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Right, they really didn't mean your whole self.
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They meant this part that we can use
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and make you feel good about yourself,
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but this other part of you that wants to advocate
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for your own health and your own well-being
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and your own needs, you can leave that at home.
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So really, I think for me,
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my journey has been about bringing more and more of myself,
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my full self to my whole life, to my work, to everything.
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And what I see you do on a regular basis
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is really blur those edges between personal and business,
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and you do it in a way that isn't embarrassing,
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that really just makes the people around you feel comfortable.
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Aww.
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That's my hope, actually.
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It's part of my activism.
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I've decided.
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I mean, I do go to marches and that sort of thing,
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but I'm not as activist-y as a lot of my radical friends
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here in Oakland, California, where I live.
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But I think I've just embraced that
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being my fullest, quirkiest self
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in as many places as possible is my activism.
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And I can tell how...
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It's weird to say.
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I sound full of myself when I say this,
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but I am full of myself, and that's what we're talking about.
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That it's good.
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It changes people.
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I can tell that it really helps people
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for me to be my full self in their presence,
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and it certainly helps me.
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Yeah.
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And one of the things that I've noticed about myself
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is as I've gotten older...
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We're going to talk about this more later.
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I got a late-in-life diagnosis with ADHD,
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and what I'm noticing now that I'm in menopause,
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which we'll also talk about
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because you're not shy about talking about that.
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What I'm noticing is now that I'm in menopause,
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what used to work, the workarounds I had for my ADHD
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before just don't work as well anymore.
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And so the time blindness,
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especially the not knowing...
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The time blindness in particular is really hard for me now
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and thinking,
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Oh, I can do these 10 things in the next 10 minutes
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and realizing that I can't.
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So I am showing up to meetings with my clients
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frequently with wet hair.
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I love it.
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And that is part of my activism that I've developed.
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It's like a lot of my clients who find me are neurodivergent,
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and so that's part of their lives, right?
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And if I can show up like,
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Hey, guys, I wanted to be clean for you,
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but I didn't quite get dry for you.
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Yeah.
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But who said that wet hair isn't professional?
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Like, what does it even mean to be professional?
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And let's just question all of that
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because I think that the rules were made,
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A, not for women,
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B, not for neurodivergent folks,
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and C, not for anyone to actually be themselves.
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So I think it is possible to be quote unquote professional,
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whatever that is,
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and also live your life all at the same time.
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Right.
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And basically what I feel like I'm demonstrating
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is that one,
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my IQ does not go down because my hair is wet
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and because I'm not wearing makeup, right?
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And also that,
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Hey, this is what my life looks like.
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I'm showing up for you on time.
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I'm a little late, a little wet,
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but I'm here on time and I'm here for you 100%.
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And it's okay if your life looks like this too, right?
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It gives permission to everybody to be like,
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Oh, well, my life works this way.
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And I just feel like you give that permission
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and you make it part of the conversation.
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I've heard you have,
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you work with educators basically.
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Actually, I didn't let you say what it is that you do.
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Do you want to say what it is that you do?
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Well, I can.
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Yeah, but let me say it in a very particular way
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that gives an example of what we're talking about.
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So I am the founder of the Anti-Boring Learning Lab,
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which is a training company for academic coaches,
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tutors and classroom teachers and educators of all kinds
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who work specifically with students.
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And I have an expertise in the science of learning.
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I have an expertise in how to motivate students
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to learn things that they might think
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they don't want to learn.
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And I bring that together
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in what I call the Anti-Boring Toolkit.
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And it's related to study skills
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and executive function strategies.
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And one of the things that educators find
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when they come into the lab is, you know,
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we have modules where we note taking
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or learning the study cycle
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or learning how to track habits with students,
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et cetera, et cetera.
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But one of the things you find in every module
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is a video of me working with a student.
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And I'm not showing the video necessarily
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because I'm doing the best coaching.
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I'm showing the video because it's me
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teaching this one particular thing to students.
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And it was a little embarrassing for me
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to realize how many of my videos
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have me in a coaching session laying on the couch
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or like in a prone position in some way.
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And I was fine when I was working directly
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with students, with teenagers,
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but then I got a little embarrassed
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when I realized that educators
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were gonna see that sort of thing.
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And then I thought, you know what?
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It was great for the students.
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They felt so relaxed when they were with me
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because I was relaxed.
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And I wasn't that way all the time,
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but I met myself wherever I was,
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and then it allowed me to meet them
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wherever they were.
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And why not let the educators see that
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since that's what I did.
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So anyway, that's an example
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of what my version of wet hair.
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Exactly, exactly.
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You know, or wearing a t-shirt and casual
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or, you know, whatever it is
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that you're the same person.
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You're just living your life
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and doing the best you can,
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which is all we can expect of anyone.
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So that's definitely crept into my regular,
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it's okay if I show up with wet hair.
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And I've asked that question
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on public social media.
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What do you think when your coach
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shows up with wet hair?
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And I had one person say,
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oh my gosh, I had one person show up
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to coach me with wet hair
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and I thought she was so unprofessional
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and she never talked to the woman again.
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And I'm like, hmm.
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Not a good fit then, probably.
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Exactly.
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Yeah.
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And I just really think
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it makes you question your stories
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about, like you said, what is professional?
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How do we bring our full selves to our work?
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How do we show up for each other?
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How do we help other people feel comfortable?
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Right, like you said,
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when you're relaxing on the couch
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and a student is relaxing
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in their environment,
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you're probably getting better work done
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than if you're both just sitting here
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very still and straight on.
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Right, not moving in the camera
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and staring at each other
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and whatever else.
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Yeah.
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So that brings me to the next thing
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I wanted to talk about.
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One of the other reasons
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I wanted to bring you on
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was because I feel like
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you've always been ahead of the curve.
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Always.
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When we went into lockdown in 2020
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and everybody was suddenly,
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oh my gosh, I've got to get on Zoom.
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You had a good deal of experience
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already on Zoom
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and led
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the biggest webinar
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you've I think probably ever had
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where people just couldn't even get in.
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There were so many people
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wanting into the Zoom room
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and they couldn't get in.
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But it was about how to be
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comfortable
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and interactive
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across on Zoom.
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And again,
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you were giving people
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permission
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to recognize that they had bodies
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even though they were on camera.
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Like you regularly
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will notice in a meeting
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that you're leading
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that oh, I'm feeling a little bit
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tense in my shoulders
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or my back is feeling tight
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and so I need a little wiggle.
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Why don't we all have a little wiggle?
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People didn't used to wiggle alongside me
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but now they're wiggling with me
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a little bit more.
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At least half the room wiggles with me.
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Yeah.
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And so you were teaching people
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how to be dynamic with their voices,
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how to be dynamic with their bodies
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and now everybody's on Zoom
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and the things that you were demonstrating then
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are still things that you just do.
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It's not like you have to think about it.
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Other people could think about it
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a whole lot more than they do.
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But it's just,
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so I've seen you just always
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be ahead of the curve
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and always be bringing
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your full self forward
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no matter what.
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You and I,
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people I should say this too,
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for as long as I've been OfficeWiz,
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which I think is seven or eight years.
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It's so long.
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We live on opposite coasts
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and have never met in person.
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One day we're going to hug
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and electricity is going to go like kapow.
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But I just feel like I know you
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because you're so open
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about who you are.
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Before I lose this thread
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of you being ahead of the curve,
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I want to say that part of the reason
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I'm holding this podcast
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is because I want to talk about
14:21
surfing your edge in your personal life,
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surfing your edge in your business,
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but also about what edge
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we might be surfing as a society
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and what needs to happen
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in order for us to become healthier
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and happier and survive.
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I think that you being so willing
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to be fully yourself,
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to talk about your personal life
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in your business life,
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and to really let your clients
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know who you are,
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to be completely real,
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whether you're leading a free workshop
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with people who've never met you
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or with people who've been with you
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for seven years and know you well,
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you're always the same person
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and you're always open
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and always willing to share.
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I think that's what, as AI grows
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and as we do more and more online,
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I think that, again,
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you're ahead of the curve here
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and are really pointing the way
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to what we're all craving
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and what we all could aspire,
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how we could all aspire
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to show up in our businesses
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and our professional lives.
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Well, I feel very seen
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and very celebrated by that.
15:58
I love your point about AI
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because I do think AI tries
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to show you that it's seeing you,
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but it doesn't have a self to be,
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and I think we feel most seen
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by others when they're in their full
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sense of their own selves,
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and then that enables them to see us.
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It doesn't sound so wise
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when I just said it,
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but it feels like it's a wise point.
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It is a wise point.
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And the other thing is too
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that with everything being written by AI now
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and even videos,
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you can do a whole video of you
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with an AI avatar,
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that it's not you on camera.
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It's your voice being generated by AI.
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It's your words being generated by AI.
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So I think the more we can show up
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as humans, obviously humans,
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I think that's going to continue
16:57
to benefit us
17:00
because we want to be able
17:02
to trust each other.
17:04
We want to be able to know that,
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yes, that's really Gretchen.
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She's really saying these things.
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And I've built my whole business
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around surfing your edge
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and really being vulnerable
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and on my own edge
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in front of my clients.
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I think you do exactly the same thing,
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and I had a point.
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On the edge together in our different ways.
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Yes.
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There was something I was going to say,
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and again, it was going to be wise.
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Well, this is the beauty of paramenopause
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is we have so much wisdom in us
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at this stage in our lives,
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and we forget half of it moment by moment,
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but it doesn't mean it's not there.
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Yes.
17:54
Shoot.
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Well, here, let me tell a little story
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and see if it comes to you in other ways,
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if it doesn't.
17:59
Just yesterday, after you and I had a meeting,
18:02
I went into a meeting with our third team member
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who is a young woman who lives in the Philippines,
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and she was extra buoyant somehow in this meeting,
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and at some point, she was talking about something,
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and then she apologized.
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She said, I'm so sorry.
18:19
I'm so talkative today.
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And I just looked at her,
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and I was like, I love you when you're talkative.
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I love getting to know you.
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And she's like, yes, but we have work to do.
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And I just looked at her, and I said, this is work.
18:31
And I told her, when Kristine and I meet,
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sometimes I'll chitty chat with her for 15 minutes
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about what's going on in her life and my life,
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and to me, that's important.
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And I think I even had to say to you,
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or chose to say to you, several years ago,
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I suspected you weren't billing me
18:47
for that chitty chat time.
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I suspected, and so I was like,
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Kristine, I hope you're billing for that time.
18:54
This is our team, our team connection time.
18:57
Anyway, it was just really sweet to share it
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with somebody else who was so much younger,
19:02
from a different culture,
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and probably had all kinds of authority stories about me,
19:06
and to just let her know, you're important,
19:08
and I care about you,
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and I'm gonna bring my full self here to the table,
19:14
and please bring your own.
19:16
Right.
19:16
Yes, and I think that was an excellent point,
19:20
that we're exporting our culture
19:23
and our expectations of what is professional
19:26
and what business looks like to other countries,
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and people like you, who are able to say,
19:34
hey, this is a place where we can be fully human,
19:39
is really powerful,
19:43
and I hope more people follow that model.
19:46
There is one other thing that just occurred to me
19:48
when you said that, though,
19:50
which is, also, we need to respect consent.
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And not everybody is comfortable
19:57
receiving that much humanity in front of them,
20:00
and that's okay, too.
20:02
So it's important to me to show up as me,
20:07
but I notice that sometimes, when I do that,
20:10
I ask questions that are too intimate of other people,
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because I'm like, well, I wouldn't mind talking about it,
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why not?
20:17
And so I do have to modulate a little bit,
20:20
which, when is it masking,
20:22
when is it just intentionally modulating?
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Like, how do I be myself
20:27
in a way that is respectful of other people's boundaries,
20:32
but also acknowledging
20:36
that even our boundaries come up for reasons
20:39
that could sometimes be questioned.
20:41
So it's a dance.
20:42
Yeah.
20:43
It's a dance.
20:44
It is a dance.
20:45
And that's the other thing about you that I love,
20:49
which is you who are willing to learn in public.
20:56
And as an educator,
20:58
working with other educators,
21:00
I think that's really valuable,
21:02
and you're willing to try things and realize,
21:06
oh, maybe I went a little too far,
21:07
or maybe that didn't work, but let's do this.
21:11
And then you are more than happy
21:13
to talk about the experiment, right?
21:15
Even if it wasn't a planned experiment.
21:19
I mean, I might have feelings of shame
21:21
and whatever else inside me, too.
21:23
Like, those things are also there.
21:24
It's not like I'm this uber-confident person.
21:28
But I do, it does,
21:30
my desire to be fully myself
21:32
and fully my embodied self
21:34
does usually override all of that gobbledygook inside me.
21:43
That's a good word, huh?
21:47
So at the beginning of this,
21:49
we teased a little bit about the ADHD thing,
21:52
and this is brand new for you.
21:53
So do you want to tell a little story
21:55
about you and your journey with ADHD?
21:59
Yeah.
22:00
I mean, I've been working with students
22:02
who have ADHD for a very long time
22:06
and never identified as somebody with ADHD
22:11
and was learning about it through both my clients
22:14
as well as various friends,
22:17
yourself included,
22:19
who realized they have a late-in-life diagnosis
22:23
and then my best friend
22:27
watched then a bunch of Instagrams and such about ADHD
22:31
and then would come to me with things that I,
22:32
like, she was the first one to teach me
22:34
about rejection sensitivity,
22:36
which I didn't know anything about
22:39
as a common symptom of ADHD.
22:43
So, you know, pandemic happens, as we know,
22:46
and aging happens.
22:48
So I'm 52 now, paramenopausal still.
22:53
I'm so ready to enter the grand world of the menopause.
22:57
Please may it come sooner rather than later.
23:01
And I mean, I even remember maybe early on in your tenure
23:06
supporting my business when there was somebody else
23:08
who you worked for who you were hired by,
23:12
and I remember breaking down and crying
23:13
in a team meeting together.
23:15
I don't know if you remember that.
23:18
And if I look back, it's like,
23:21
oh, that was probably beginnings of paramenopause
23:24
and it was also some executive function pressure
23:26
related to what I do think I have ADHD.
23:30
I think it's one reason.
23:32
Here we are admiring my ability to show up fully as myself.
23:38
It's like maybe it's just the ADHD
23:39
and lack of impulse control, Kristine.
23:45
But also I could mask that and I don't choose to mask that.
23:51
So, yeah, just it's been really, it's hard.
23:55
It's hard.
23:56
The bigger my business has gotten,
23:58
it's been hard for me and you and I.
24:04
And gosh, if I do have ADHD
24:06
and it's the two of us trying to lead my business,
24:11
oh dear, we'll do another podcast
24:14
about what it's like to have two ADHD-ers.
24:17
Anyway, it's just I am so clear right now
24:20
that there are ways that I am keeping my business held back
24:28
because of my executive function challenges.
24:31
And either I need to figure out how to hire more people
24:36
to be on our team and figure out how to lead them
24:39
in a way that that can happen
24:41
or really take responsibility
24:45
for getting coaching for myself or something.
24:50
And I don't know what the answer is.
24:51
But anyway, I'll have to say that just this morning,
24:55
just literally an hour and a half ago,
24:57
I had a therapy session.
25:00
And I'm newly back to therapy.
25:03
I had a couple, as you know,
25:04
a couple of deaths happen in my life recently.
25:06
I just thought, oh, I need some support.
25:08
So I went back to my former therapist
25:10
who knows me quite well.
25:12
And today, after we checked in
25:15
about how I'm feeling with the grief,
25:17
she said, what do you want to talk about?
25:19
And out of my mouth,
25:21
which is kind of an ADHD symptom, right?
25:23
I didn't even know I was going to say this.
25:25
Out of my mouth, I said I want to talk about diagnoses
25:28
and whether I have ADHD.
25:30
There's also a question somewhere in my mind around,
25:33
is there a touch of autism in me?
25:35
Like, I don't think so.
25:36
And I feel super triggered even by the thought,
25:40
but could there be?
25:42
And of course, she wanted to talk about,
25:44
oh, that's interesting.
25:44
Why are you triggered?
25:46
So we explored that.
25:49
And then she just asked me a bunch of questions.
25:52
And by the end of the conversation,
25:54
first of all, I found out that she had ADHD
25:57
and is on medication.
25:58
She was diagnosed when she was 41,
26:01
so 10 years ago.
26:03
I guess she's my age now.
26:04
And it was so fast.
26:09
She was like, yeah, that sounds pretty consistent
26:11
with ADHD in women, what you're describing.
26:15
And I mean, she even made a connection.
26:18
I had shared with her for some reason last week around TV
26:23
that there are certain moments in television
26:26
that I cannot watch.
26:27
I get up and I'm suddenly in the kitchen.
26:30
And it's often when people are either making
26:33
what I call bad decisions or they're embarrassing
26:36
themselves in some way.
26:38
And it's just like, it's one thing to be trying
26:41
to be good, trying to do the right thing
26:44
and somehow miss.
26:46
But it's another thing to not even be trying
26:48
and you just know how it's going to happen.
26:51
And she said, I think that could be an example
26:53
of rejection sensitivity.
26:55
Like you are feeling how this is going to play out.
26:59
And you're already so, like you cannot tolerate
27:02
the rejection that you know is likely going
27:04
to happen to them as a result of this choice
27:07
they're making right now and you leave the room.
27:09
And I was like, oh my goodness.
27:11
There are shows I've had to stop watching
27:14
because of that.
27:16
It just makes me feel so uncomfortable.
27:20
It's just like, yeah, I can't be in that person's head.
27:26
No, I can't.
27:28
Sometimes I'll yell.
27:29
I won't yell right now to show you how I yell.
27:32
But my neighbors might be wondering,
27:34
what's happening in there?
27:35
And it's like, I just can't bear it.
27:37
All of that to say I left the therapy session thinking,
27:40
oh, I'm going to book a session with a psychiatrist.
27:43
And I may consider going on medication
27:47
if the psychiatrist thinks it's appropriate.
27:50
And I don't know why I had never thought
27:53
about meds before either.
27:55
Anyway, so you're just catching me in this new world of,
27:59
I mean, who knows what I'm going to do about it.
28:01
Tomorrow's a new day, but we'll see.
28:05
Well, I wish you well on the journey
28:07
and that I hope if you do try some meds that they work
28:12
for you.
28:13
Did you try some?
28:15
I did.
28:16
My first experiment with Ritalin.
28:21
With Ritalin?
28:22
Oh my gosh.
28:23
She said that they always send people to Ritalin first.
28:26
And especially for women, it's not great.
28:28
But that's always what they do first.
28:29
For me?
28:30
It was a complete life changer.
28:34
Oh, it was.
28:35
I loved it.
28:36
I took it.
28:38
I was running the back end of someone else's business
28:41
full time when I was diagnosed.
28:45
And I had a list, always had a to-do list
28:49
that was longer than my arm.
28:51
And a lot of times I just wanted to get in my car
28:54
and drive away.
28:55
I just wanted to go, let's go to the post office.
28:57
Now is a good time to go do the post office duties.
29:00
Now is a good time to go do the banking.
29:02
And I just always wanted to be driving away or going.
29:06
Now is a good time to go get lunch.
29:09
And I took Ritalin and I sat down to work the first day.
29:16
And it was like, this is what a regular brain feels like.
29:22
It was calm.
29:23
It was like, here's this list of things to do.
29:26
Let me just work my way through them without the need
29:29
to like, oh, I've got to get away.
29:31
I've got to get away.
29:32
It was astounding.
29:34
I loved it.
29:36
And my husband started noticing when I was not on it,
29:42
like when I had missed a dose.
29:44
And he'd be like, oh, you could really, you know,
29:46
you should take that.
29:48
But then he watched a video, a documentary about pharmaceuticals.
29:56
And he's like, you really got to get off that stuff.
29:59
And so I went off of it.
30:01
My life went back to being what my life is.
30:04
And I'm like, you know what?
30:05
I don't care what you say.
30:07
I'm going to try it again.
30:08
And I went back on and it didn't work the second time.
30:11
It didn't work the second time.
30:12
But you didn't try others?
30:14
I tried another one.
30:15
I took another position working for a company that's 100% remote.
30:22
And I loved this job.
30:24
And as much as they tried to say, you know, it's a 40-hour-a-week job.
30:29
And you set your hours.
30:30
It was like an 80-hour-a-week job.
30:33
And we had people around the world.
30:34
So somebody was always working.
30:37
And so you'd get up at 5 a.m.
30:38
And you'd just start working.
30:40
And you'd work until 8 or 9 because somebody was always – anyway.
30:44
So I started taking a different medication.
30:49
And we ramped that all the way up to the very top.
30:53
And I got to the point where I couldn't unclench my jaw.
30:58
But I was like, I need this to stay on top of all of this stuff.
31:03
And I still wasn't doing the job that I wanted to do.
31:06
So I had to get off of that medicine, too, and leave the job.
31:10
Yeah.
31:10
That sounds like that was the right choice.
31:13
So now it's just a matter of, like me, learning, just being –
31:19
trying to be aware of how things work.
31:23
But, yes, I'm looking forward to hearing how your journey goes
31:27
and maybe learning from you as well.
31:29
Well, given I'm the type of person I am, tune in to my podcast,
31:33
the Academic Coaching Podcast.
31:35
And I'll probably be updating everybody over there about how my visit
31:38
with my psychiatrist is going and how the meds are treating me.
31:43
Right.
31:44
And, again, I just think it gives permission to women to talk about these things
31:50
and to think about these things.
31:51
And I think our generation – you're a little bit younger than I am,
31:55
but I think our generation is the first one to really say,
31:59
hey, my – what's happening in my body matters.
32:05
And you can't just tell me, oh, that's natural or that's normal
32:09
and just pat me on the head and shut me out the door.
32:13
And I just feel like more and more women are having these conversations
32:18
and we need to have them.
32:20
And we need to have them not only in personal spaces but in professional spaces.
32:25
I mean, I love it these days.
32:26
I mean, truthfully, many of the people in the anti-boring learning lab
32:30
are middle-aged women who are in career changes from education or other careers
32:36
and are layering on some kind of academic or executive function coaching.
32:41
And so there are definitely times in the calls I'm just like, okay,
32:45
paramenopause brain.
32:47
And it's lovely.
32:49
And I used to be a little shy about the non-uterus havers in the room.
32:55
And now I'm just like, we all have bodies,
32:58
so we're just going to talk about them.
33:02
Right.
33:02
And I think it benefits both genders to know what's going on.
33:06
All genders.
33:07
All genders.
33:07
Thank you.
33:10
All genders.
33:11
All genders.
33:12
All right.
33:13
So there is one more experiment on your horizon that I'm aware of
33:19
that I'm really, really excited about.
33:23
That is.
33:25
First of all, why don't you just tell me a little bit about where you live,
33:30
your choices in why you chose to live there, and what might be changing?
33:37
Well.
33:39
Can I set that up right?
33:42
Work?
33:42
I'll roll with it.
33:43
So I live in Oakland, California, as I mentioned.
33:45
I've lived here for 20 years, exactly 20 years.
33:48
And, you know, that means that I came out here when I was 32.
33:55
And now I'm 52.
33:58
What a phase of life.
33:59
And I came out as a single woman here.
34:01
That's so funny.
34:02
I came out here as a single woman.
34:04
Yes.
34:09
And I am still single.
34:11
And I've done a lot of dating and really thought I wanted a family and kids.
34:16
And that just didn't happen for me, though.
34:20
Again, I'm showing my body.
34:22
My body still technically could have a child, and I wanted to quit.
34:28
But, yeah, so I've had various journeys with dating,
34:36
but always looking for people local here in the Bay Area,
34:41
because that's where I lived.
34:42
And I wanted, you know, sweetie to be right here with me.
34:45
And I've kind of at the end of a period of maybe a year or two,
34:52
where I had kind of given up trying to date.
34:55
And I've been feeling inspired lately to try again.
34:59
And this time to try in a very specific way that I know you'll want me to
35:04
share more information about in just a moment.
35:07
But I'm open.
35:08
Part of that is I'm open to living elsewhere if I need to,
35:13
or perhaps being bi-coastal.
35:15
I'm open to being creative about my living situation so I can expand the pool
35:20
of men who I'm attracted to who might be available for a relationship.
35:29
I love that.
35:31
And I know every year you kind of give yourself a little theme.
35:36
And I think you've discovered that your themes, each year has its own theme,
35:41
but it basically is a three-year cycle that it kind of all works together
35:44
in three years.
35:47
And I'm just wondering if you have a specific, I think,
35:51
it's been a while since we've talked about this,
35:52
but I think you have kind of a specific experiment that you want to run
35:57
around this?
36:00
Around the dating, I do.
36:01
Although maybe it's related to my yearly theme.
36:05
My yearly theme is this is the year of the goddess.
36:07
It was really juicy for me the first few months of the year,
36:11
and I haven't stuck with it as well as I do with most of my themes.
36:14
Three years ago was the year of the erotic.
36:17
So maybe this isn't coming to fruition.
36:20
Who knows?
36:21
But I've tried so many different ways to date to find, you know,
36:29
I'm a quirky gal and also I'm looking for emotionally self-responsible men.
36:34
And anyway, it's, I've tried so many different ways.
36:37
So there's a new way I've not tried that I think I'm going to try.
36:42
And shoot, now I'm saying it out loud to the world,
36:44
so I better try it, right?
36:45
This is like accountability.
36:47
I want to create a dating doc, they're called.
36:52
Mine will be on Google Doc, where I basically write my profile,
36:55
but even a more in-depth dating profile on a Google Doc.
36:59
And then turn that Google Doc to a QR code that lives on my phone
37:03
or that can live on my friend's phones.
37:04
And also just send it out to the world.
37:09
Like here's me and here's what I'm looking for.
37:14
And seeing, you know, there will be instructions.
37:18
If you're curious about dating me, let's schedule a call.
37:23
And that'll all be in the dating doc.
37:26
So I was thinking about my upcoming birthday,
37:28
where I turn 53 as the launch date for this dating doc.
37:35
And it feels certainly very vulnerable,
37:38
partially because I'm thinking I'll probably send it out
37:41
to my whole business newsletter list.
37:43
Wow.
37:44
Why not?
37:45
I mean, you're going to be the one sending it out.
37:48
I mean, maybe it'll feel too vulnerable to do,
37:51
and in which case, you know, I won't.
37:54
But the thought is, how committed am I to surfing the edge
38:00
enough to finding a partner?
38:02
And yeah, it will feel like the most vulnerable thing
38:06
I've ever done to do that.
38:10
But it's a great way to do it.
38:11
Like, hey, it's my birthday, and here's the special thing
38:14
I'm doing on my birthday.
38:15
And please hold this gently and with care
38:18
and with some creativity too.
38:22
But yeah, I'm thinking that's what's going to happen.
38:26
Wow.
38:27
I'm so excited.
38:28
I'd completely forgotten.
38:29
I knew there was a plan.
38:31
I couldn't remember what the plan was.
38:33
So that's exciting.
38:35
I love that.
38:36
I love that.
38:37
And I love that it's going to go out to 5,000-plus people
38:41
on your professional list.
38:44
And that is, again, a really, in my mind,
38:47
a really beautiful example of how you show up
38:51
as a whole person.
38:52
It's like, here I am.
38:54
Here's my business blog today.
38:56
And by the way, and check out my podcast.
38:59
And by the way, I'm turning 53.
39:03
And here's my dating doc.
39:05
I really want to date anybody who fits these criteria
39:09
or that I'm open to dating.
39:12
Yeah.
39:13
Yeah.
39:14
And there'll be another tricky thing.
39:15
There's so much of me online.
39:17
Somebody who doesn't know me can get a sense of me.
39:20
And that will be really interesting to be,
39:22
how do I even find men who are mindful enough
39:25
to recognize that they'll know me better than I'll know them
39:28
because they've got it in the Google Doc.
39:30
They've got videos.
39:31
They've got podcasts.
39:32
Who knows?
39:33
Maybe we'll link to this episode as, like,
39:36
this is who you get with Gretchen.
39:40
And so I'll need somebody, people who are also mindful
39:44
and willing to share of themselves to the same degree
39:48
that I'm sharing of myself.
39:49
But I mean, with me, one of my biggest values
39:53
is mutuality and awareness of mutuality.
39:56
I don't want to have to be the one to force mutuality.
39:58
Then it's not mutual.
40:00
And I don't know how it would all work, but it's worth a try.
40:06
Wow.
40:07
I would just like to say you set a very high bar
40:12
when it comes to running personal experiments
40:14
and really surfing your edge.
40:17
And I have loved this conversation.
40:20
I think my listeners are going to love this conversation.
40:24
And I just want to ask you, we've kind of meandered
40:30
a little bit here, but I ask this of, let me ask, okay,
40:34
I'm sorry, I have two questions.
40:36
One question is, if you were going to define the edge
40:40
that you're currently surfing, what do you think the biggest,
40:43
I know you're surfing multiples, but what do you think
40:45
the biggest edge you're surfing right now might be?
40:51
I think the biggest edge I'm surfing right now
40:54
is being middle-aged and looking ahead and thinking,
41:01
is the rest of my life going to look the way my life looks right now?
41:06
And granted, my life is better than it's ever looked.
41:09
But do I want it this way?
41:11
Like in this apartment that you all got to see
41:13
because I forgot to put my blur on.
41:17
If you're watching this on YouTube and not the audio version.
41:20
Is this the life that I want in this busy sensory overload
41:29
Bay Area, single?
41:32
I mean, I do really love myself and I would be so happy.
41:36
I mean, I'm stuck with myself for the rest of my life,
41:38
but it's like, if there's a possibility to have companionship.
41:42
Anyway, so that's the edge.
41:44
It's like, how do I deal with this feeling that I don't really
41:47
want my life in this format for the rest of my life,
41:50
but I also don't really know what to do about it,
41:53
especially because I love my friends and my apartment is rent controlled.
41:59
So cheap for the Bay Area.
42:01
And so I can't move unless I leave town.
42:03
But where would I go anyway?
42:05
So did I answer the question?
42:08
Absolutely.
42:08
That was an excellent question.
42:10
Answer.
42:11
And I just, as you were talking,
42:13
I have several clients and friends who I think are really going to
42:18
resonate with what you just said, right?
42:21
Like they love themselves.
42:22
They've got beautiful lives.
42:23
They know how unique and gorgeous and really rich.
42:30
They are as people,
42:31
but that doesn't mean that they aren't wishing that there was someone out
42:37
there who recognized that and wanted to be part partnered with that.
42:41
So I think women and men,
42:44
there might be some men who are in the same situation.
42:48
And I know there are men in the same situation and I want,
42:52
that's who I'm looking for.
42:55
So I just think that what you said is really going to resonate with people.
43:00
And I appreciate you saying that.
43:01
So thank you.
43:03
The next question I ask is,
43:06
is there something that you wished I'd asked in this conversation that I
43:09
didn't or anything you want to say to make it feel more complete for you?
43:15
I don't think there's anything I wish you'd asked,
43:18
but I do want to say that, you know, through our time together,
43:23
obviously I pay you to be on my team.
43:26
And there've been several things when I do share something of myself with you
43:30
and you're like, Oh, Gretchen, we would so be friends.
43:34
If we could, if we lived in the same place, if we had the time.
43:38
And I think this, this like on podcast,
43:41
on recording was like our first real like friend connection,
43:46
which is one reason why we went all over the place.
43:50
And I just really love you and appreciate you.
43:53
And I'm so happy that you're in my world.
43:56
And I also just feel like I need to say that I'm also happy for you to leave
44:01
my world in that official capacity whenever you're ready.
44:04
I mean, I personally don't want it anytime soon,
44:06
but I also know that you have your own edges, you're surfing.
44:10
And I'm so excited to see you surf and fly with them as you're ready.
44:17
And I'm just excited to continue deepening and getting to know each other.
44:22
Yes. And regardless, there will be a friendship that continues.
44:27
Exactly. Exactly.
44:29
Well, thank you for being amazing and wonderful and open and jumping in on
44:36
really short notice to talk to me today.
44:39
I so appreciate you and I love you too.
44:43
And I think we're just going to say, Oh,
44:49
to be continued is what we're going to say.
44:51
That's what we're going to say.
44:54
We'll check in on the experiment in a few months.
44:57
Right.
44:58
So thank you everybody for sticking around today and look for Gretchen to
45:03
come back sometime, maybe October, November ish.
45:08
Thanks everyone. See you then.