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It's Friday I'm on Leftie Island · Friday I'm in Bed

0:00
Hello, welcome to Friday. I'm in bed.
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Podcast for midlife women living their best life but in bed by
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10. This week on Friday, I'm in bed.
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We're starting with a new media narrative around angry women.
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Apparently we've all got green hair, nose piercings, vote a
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certain way, care about the planet, and don't want children,
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and somehow that's become something to be scared of.
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We're unpacking the whole manosphere versus femisphere
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debate and asking who benefits from this narrative and why now.
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And then we're talking about Stella McCartney's new
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collaboration with H&M. She's built a reputation as the
0:41
ultimate sustainable designer. So what happens when that meets
0:44
fast fashion? Is it a cash grab or is there a
0:47
genuine opportunity to shift things from the inside?
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Or just more green washing? And in our bonus content for Zen
0:55
subscribers, we're getting into drinking culture in Parliament.
0:59
Should MPs be allowed to drink throughout the day and then vote
1:02
on decisions that affect the country?
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It comes after Green MP Hannah Spencer said the House of
1:07
Commons smelt of alcohol and unsurprisingly, not everyone is
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happy about it. So grab a cuppa and let's get
1:14
into it. Hello, Kate.
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Happy actually not Friday because obviously we record on
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Wednesdays. How?
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How has your last week been? Hello.
1:27
My last week has been all right. I think last week I said my
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stress levels were growing increasing.
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I think that's the the phrase they're they're nearly peaking.
1:37
I think they're nearly at peak. Daughter's got first GCSE on
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Friday. So the day this comes out and
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she's got a bad wrist. She had a football injury years
1:47
ago and it comes and goes and it's flared up and she can't
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write. Her hand is strapped and she's
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in a lot of pain. And I'm like, wow, we've got 48
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hours, 48 hours to fix the hand. And yeah, my son's final project
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is tomorrow. My stepmother had an accident in
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London and unfortunately it's broken quite a few bones.
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So that and my mum's in hospital today.
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It's just like, you know, that I think it's definitely the
2:17
sandwich generation, as we're often described thing of like
2:20
parents and children. Obviously not everyone has
2:23
children, you included. But it's that feeling of like,
2:26
my God, all I need now touch wood is is the dog.
2:29
Something will happen to the dog.
2:30
Like I can't cope. I won't say that I did touch
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wood when I said that, but it is that feeling like what next?
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So that's me. Well, I've, I've spent, like,
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the whole weekend in a, like, shepherd's Hut in the hills in
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near Oldham. Just like listening to birds
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relaxing. That was lush.
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Yeah. So my husband had a dry
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stonewalling course on which he broke his finger.
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It's fine. It's very bruised, but yeah,
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he's fine. But yeah, no, I did, I did no
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such activities. I read my book, sat outside,
3:02
enjoyed the scenery. Yeah, it was all lovely.
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So, yeah, I'm. I was quite chill.
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And now all of a sudden. I'm back at work.
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Yeah. I've made a conscious decision
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that I don't have a lot of work on in May.
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I have like my my normal work, but I don't have anything extra.
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I don't have like any big piece of work to do.
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So I've made the conscious decision that I am going to step
3:24
back in May Obviously I'm still working so I'm not like off, but
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just I'm going to have to lean into all of this stuff that's
3:32
going on and be mummy and daughter.
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I feel otherwise. I think my sanity is going to go
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so. So I think I'm just going to
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just try and like go with the flow in May and not like stress
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about work and stuff like that, yeah.
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Don't take any of the else on. That's it.
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Apart from podcasts, yeah. I can always talk Gemma.
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Yeah, now this is, this is the good bit, this is the good bit
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of the week We go, Oh no, I have to talk about things that are
3:56
annoying me this week with Kate. It's great I ever do get it off
4:02
my chest. Speaking of which.
4:04
I have my cuppa. It's try try latte.
4:08
Do you have yours or your can of coke, whatever it is you're on
4:10
with? Today it's still a can of coke,
4:12
I'm afraid. Yeah.
4:13
Caffeine for it's my lunchtime can of Coke that I have.
4:16
So yeah, lots to talk about. Plus we have bonus content.
4:20
Woo. So the Zine went out for the
4:23
first time on Saturday morning. Have you subscribed, everybody?
4:28
If not, there will be a link somewhere in the show notes, I'm
4:31
sure below. If you're watching on YouTube,
4:33
the links are out there and there will be bonus content
4:36
coming out on Saturday so you can hear us moaning and ranting
4:41
and putting the world to write about another issue that has got
4:45
our goat. Is that actually a phrase?
4:47
Yes. No, I think yeah, it's not.
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It sounds stupid now you say it, but it is a phrase.
4:52
OK, the gods got our goat podcast Subscribe.
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Let's crack on. So the first thing I want to
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talk about today is angry young women, which is sort of us.
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Or maybe it was once angry, angry middle-aged women, angry
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midlife women and women just angry women.
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You could be angry at any time. Basically.
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This comes from an article that was in the new statement in
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mid-april entitled Meet the Angry Young Women.
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Now it's not, it's not that unsympathetic when you when you,
5:32
when you read it, but some of the women that were quoted in it
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who'd spoken to the journalists were, were quite annoyed about
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how they were represented. So the story was meet the angry
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young women, the new feminism reshaping Britain.
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That was the exact title. It's behind a pay wall but I
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have read it and got the PDF. Am I allowed to say that?
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Oh. No idea.
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Am I allowed to put it in the Zine?
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I don't know. I'm angry enough to do it.
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It's a long article. She went around the country
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talking to feminist influencers. She hung out at a Unison Cayley
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in South London, going on the Palestine March, sitting in on a
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Uni feminist book swap in Leeds. The headline headline finding
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from their polling, which was run by Mail in strategy, look
6:14
how detailed my notes are today, was that women aged 18 to 30 are
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by now far the most progressive demographic in the UK.
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So they're 26 percentage points less likely than young men to
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feel positive about capitalism and 21 points less likely to
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think they'll out earn their parents.
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I don't think I will out earn my parents either, but my parents
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probably made better career choices than I did.
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The gap is also biggest amongst women who went to university.
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Now, none of that is particularly surprising to me.
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I don't know about you. It's kind of an attempt to take
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this, this group seriously. And then the right wing press
6:47
got hold of it. So the other article that has
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prompted me to go right, I really want to talk about it now
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is a piece that was in the Telegraph titled Forget the
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Manosphere. It's angry lefty women we need
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to worry about. Yeah.
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Power to the people, yeah. Again also paywalls have read
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it. Her argument briefly was the
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young women have been radicalized by a Greta Sundberg
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was what seems to be largely to blame for this apparently.
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Alex that how I can't remember how Alexandra Cortez forget her
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middle AOC in the US. They're full of ceaseless dread
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and fury about toxic masculinity, turfs and fossil
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fuels. Which reminds me, we haven't
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done fossil fuels on here. We should probably They don't
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want to get married, they don't want kids.
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They want to overturn capitalism without apparently having the
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faintest graphs of basic economics, which I'm sure that
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the author has plenty of grasp of that.
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And apparently this, not the manosphere, the one with the
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body count that's causing deaths, That's what we should
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really be worried about. Yes.
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So that goes on for quite a while.
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Her proposed solution at the end of the article.
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Did you get that far in the article?
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No, I was so angry I turned off. OK, so she's very concerned
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about women not wanting to get married and have children.
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So because, she suggests, we stage a civic version of Love
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Island, where scores of unhappy Green voting young women can be
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stuck on an island with a troop of cavalry officers or Royal
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Marines. No, we just want to be on the
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island. We don't want the Royal Marine.
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Yeah, leave us alone. Just put us on an island, she.
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Calls it Lefty Island and it could be the salvation of
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humanity it. Could so make it the whole of
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Britain? So obviously there's several
8:30
themes to discuss, the false equivalence between the
8:32
femisphere and the manosphere, as they're calling it, and
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there's a constant framing in it, talking about these often
8:38
attractive young women and they're focusing on their hair
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and their piercings, that kind of thing.
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There is why the young women are actually angry.
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And is it justified maybe? I mean, yeah, if we're not long
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out of the rape Academy story, are we?
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So luxury beliefs is an interesting one, which is from
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AUS commentator Rob Henderson, which and goes back to our wine
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moms that we spoke about earlier in the year where like
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privileged women complain because they can afford to
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essentially. So, you know, they're not
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engaging with the argument, just undermine the person making the
9:09
argument. Yeah.
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So there's there's so much stuff in there.
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And then we finally end up with Lefty Island.
9:15
So would you would you go stay on Lefty Island?
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Well, as I, I said anecdotally before, you know, you know, we
9:21
live on an island. Why don't we just make it Lefty
9:23
Island? Yes.
9:25
And then yeah, that would be amazing.
9:27
There's a couple. I wrote some notes just as you
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were speaking. Not that you can really see them
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in that, in that. OK, what about?
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So these are my literal first thoughts apart from rage OBFS.
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What about the lefty men? Because there's plenty of men
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out there actually not happy with the state of the planet,
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you know, and the violence and capitalism and and and and and
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so it's a bit like, OK, let's just make it a gender thing,
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shall we? Let's just make the gender war
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inverted commas worse. I've written down uni.
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You said about her often university, which might, you
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know, like which it's like, so they're educated, so they read
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and they have potentially critical thinking depending what
10:05
they studied in university. But one presumes, you know,
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that's interesting, isn't it? Because we've talked a lot about
10:11
how we seem to have lost the ability to critically think.
10:15
It made me think about they're saying it's young people.
10:18
But literally, that was me at university in 1991 going on
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marches, You know, so I was that person.
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I didn't have green hair, but I did have shaved hair.
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So I, you know, like, this isn't like new news, if you know what
10:30
I mean. And yeah, we'll talk about
10:32
luxury beliefs because that's, I think that's just an interesting
10:36
one in itself. I think there is something
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around people, women, men who have privilege, it's almost
10:41
easier to sit and and make all these claims or do all the, you
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know, it's harder, but it doesn't mean that.
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That it's wrong, Yeah. I mean, of course, of course
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it's easier because you've got the luxury of not being at work
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for 17 hours a day to try and earn enough money to pay your
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gas bills so you can be angry on other people's behalf.
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And one of the things that the right do is it's the amount of
11:05
people who are less affluent who are sucked in by the right when
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you want to say to them, but actually they're not going to
11:14
make your life better. You know, like there's a whole
11:16
debate around that. I'd love to mention at some
11:19
point, if that's OK. David Haye on I'm A Celebrity
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saying about, you know, the whole pretty girl, fat girl
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narrative. There's just like loads of or
11:29
ugly girl. Well, that's.
11:30
One of the things we can be angry about because.
11:32
Yeah. Absolutely.
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So there's no. Yeah, sure.
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Things like that are out there apart from do we want to go and
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live on Lefty Island, in which I would say yes, as long as they
11:42
don't actually put the Marines on there.
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Yeah, I don't want the Marines though.
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Why would I want them? Just down the left, just.
11:47
But you know why they want They probably think that we need the
11:50
Marines to provide, you know, fish for us, look after us,
11:54
protect us on Lefty Island. But the fact is, is we don't
11:57
need protecting if it's just us on Lefty Island.
11:59
Yeah, Who against? So I think the first thing I
12:02
want to talk about is that the manosphere and the femosphere.
12:05
So do you? Do you think there is any
12:07
equivalence to them at all? And well, I suppose, you know,
12:11
at the base level, 1 is a group of men who are unhappy and the
12:15
other is a group of women who are unhappy.
12:17
So I suppose at that basic level, and one is women and one
12:21
is men, you know that it's it's gendered.
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But I think the manosphere bit is obviously a huge part of the
12:30
conversation because it's another thing that has made
12:34
women and girls. And remember, they're talking
12:36
about young women here. And I am a mother of a teenage
12:40
girl and I'm seeing what's happening in schools and what
12:43
she's dealing with and listening to and stuff.
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Because of that, they are angry and scared and determined to
12:52
create a life that's on their terms, which is no different
12:56
from, you know, the suffragettes or the night sixties 70s wave of
13:00
feminism or whatever. It's it's just the next stage.
13:03
But because the manosphere is out there and by that, obviously
13:08
in cell culture, the podcast boys Bros all about their list,
13:13
you know, they see the end result and and are at the brunt
13:17
of it. So of course they're angry.
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So I think it is really relevant, but it's the whole one
13:22
versus the other. Well, is it?
13:24
No, see, that's what I see there is so there was some kind of
13:27
genuinely misandrist content that was kind of highlighted.
13:30
Of course, of course it's out. It's out there.
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I mean, there's there's the research that was what is it?
13:35
Did I have that on my on my notes?
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Probably not. I write all these stats down and
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then the actual thing that I want to say isn't on there about
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the how quickly young men seem misogynistic content when
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they're online. Whereas, I mean, I'm almost
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perpetually online and I've seen very little content that I would
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call genuinely, you know, Miss Undressed or dangerous
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encouraging violence against men.
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So we don't pretend that it doesn't exist at all, though.
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But I don't think that the reach of that kind of content compared
14:00
to like the manosphere content is equivocal at all.
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I mean, when they're talking about these angry men, the men
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seem to be angry at women for not giving them what they want.
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Whereas we're saying that women are angry about Gaza,
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capitalism, climate change, the medical establishment dismissing
14:19
them so that they die earlier, I feel like that feels a bit more
14:22
like justified anger. But it's just broader, isn't it?
14:25
And it's looking at the whole picture.
14:28
What's 1 of the things that's frustrating about the manosphere
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is, yes, you know, a large part of their anger and blame is on
14:37
women when we know that a lot of what is upsetting them about
14:43
life is because of the patriarchy, it's because of the
14:46
government, it's because of the media.
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It's not, you know, they're the, they're kind of funneling it
14:51
into hating women or blaming women.
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But actually the things that we're frustrated about are some
14:57
of the things that they're frustrated about, but it's not
15:00
not packaged the same from the people that are instigating it.
15:05
So why, why do we think it is that it seems to be women that
15:08
are angry about this and, and the men that are talking about
15:10
it aren't angry about about, about those same things.
15:14
I mean, men go to university too, of course, but they don't
15:18
blame university. Yes, but it's really worth
15:20
saying that the lefty issue. Isn't just women, The Telegraph
15:24
have decided, or who they've decided to, to frame it as us
15:29
because of course it's, it's buying him back into this
15:31
patriarchal thing and this manosphere thing that we are the
15:34
problem when it's the system that's the problem.
15:38
So, and there are men at university, as you said, and
15:41
they, they see it's the system. So it's not women that are just
15:45
on Lefty Island. There are plenty of men that
15:47
want to come and join Lefty Island too and care about the
15:50
planet. So it feels actually, you know,
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is it like 1, the manosphere being one smaller group?
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I know we think it's big, but it's not versus bigger, very
16:00
loud group of women, not just girls, because it's it's not
16:04
just young women that are, you know, are angry.
16:07
So it feels if you're more threatening to somebody, whoever
16:10
the person that writes it is, I don't know.
16:12
See, I kind of see that. So this is this is kind of the
16:15
generation they're talking about the Gen.
16:16
ZS. They grew up kind of perpetually
16:19
online, whereas, you know, I'm, you know, so I'm exhenial.
16:22
I didn't get a mobile phone till I was at university, you know,
16:25
and that was one where you had like a character limit on texts
16:27
and it's like, and then I got one with Snake and I was super
16:30
excited so. They're seeing more but this.
16:33
Yeah, this generation has been seeing this from a young age.
16:36
Says they've, you know, they've grown up to me too and then
16:38
COVID and then they're seeing Gaza and they're seeing all this
16:40
stuff in real time, which is kind of a privilege that we
16:44
didn't yeah, that we, we didn't have to to deal with that.
16:47
So we're kind of lucky without having to see that.
16:49
So I'm kind of not surprised that they're angry if they if
16:53
they see that kind of stuff about the world.
16:55
Whereas when I was a teenager, all I saw was what was in the
16:59
newspapers. So it was newspapers like the
17:01
Telegraph that were setting that kind of standard.
17:04
So even though I was angry, I wasn't seeing other people that
17:09
would maybe amplify that anger and feeling.
17:11
It wasn't quite so easy to coordinate, I guess.
17:15
I mean, I've been, I was thinking a lot about Riot Girl
17:17
recently and zine's and that kind of thing after we started
17:20
our our easing, yeah, our hours in newsletter about how that was
17:26
the way. But they took time to distribute
17:28
and photocopy and send out. There obviously I don't know
17:30
because I did. So I was going to marches at 17
17:35
and anti apartheid things and I was getting that information
17:39
from somewhere and I don't and it wasn't from Zenes.
17:41
I wonder, although there were Zenes, but I don't, I wonder if
17:45
it was partly in the community that I was in.
17:48
So I was very punk by the time I was 17.
17:50
I would describe myself as punk, as a goth at 14 here I shaved
17:54
hair and I wore army boots and I was angry with the world.
17:57
But then we all were in our, you know, like in my sphere, if you
18:01
like, in my in our sort of community.
18:04
But we must have learned about it from somewhere.
18:06
And it was very left lean. And at that point, Albert
18:09
Thatcher was the Prime Minister. So the Mead and the media has
18:13
always been right wing, let's face it.
18:15
Um, I mean, not all of it, but most of it.
18:18
Most of it, Yeah. Yeah.
18:19
Um, so we got it from somewhere. Yeah, see, that's what I was
18:23
wondering about because I did the same.
18:24
I went to a really big anti Nazi league March in the mid 90s.
18:28
It was absolutely massive, like the Levellers played at the gig
18:31
at the end of it. I was also, I was DMS, but yeah,
18:33
I was, I was Riot Girl, I guess Bikini Kill, Huggy Bear and
18:37
Mambo Taxi kind of kind of bands.
18:40
And yeah, but I wonder. I can't, I don't know, because
18:44
my parents read the Daily Mail, but also I found out about these
18:46
things from somewhere. But maybe Flyers were a big
18:49
thing. I think it's music, so I
18:51
listened to. I went to a lot of.
18:53
Gig and I mean from obviously I'm older than you, so it was
18:56
like eighties, 8687, you know, I listened to new mod Lami and it
19:00
was it was all about system. They were the they were the
19:05
lyrics, they were the words, I think, but maybe this is now
19:09
then tied in with the green hair piercings narrative.
19:11
You know, the punk because alternative music is generally,
19:17
let's just say 95%. There is some kind of far right
19:20
alt rock. Out there, but.
19:23
Generally speaking, it's pretty much all left wing and it's
19:26
radical thinking and it's global issues.
19:30
They talk about poverty, they talk about politics.
19:33
So I wonder how much is actually tied into all turn.
19:37
And I don't mean like indie, like Blur, I mean alternative.
19:41
Sorry, sorry to the Blur fans. I mean like real alternative,
19:45
you know, like punk. Yeah, all right, girl.
19:48
Or whatever, you know, because they were talking about those
19:50
issues. Blair were like the entryway
19:52
drug. I was parted it by then.
19:55
Yeah, I mean, I went, that's where we used to hang out.
19:57
There was the Forum in Tunbridge Wells was our, it was our gig
20:01
place. We would go every weekend and
20:02
see like kind of tiny indie bands and stuff.
20:05
And I think there was a lot of. There was a lot of that out
20:07
there. So maybe that's how it got
20:08
better. Yeah.
20:08
That's that's the other thing that the framing they're always
20:11
focusing on like women's appearance in this and how they
20:14
are, she'll call them often attractive, but then describe
20:17
all the ways that they're kind of not living up to that
20:21
attractiveness, like green hair piercing.
20:23
So it's like it's like these they could be so.
20:27
Pretty. If only you didn't have a nose
20:29
pit. Yeah.
20:30
And there was. There was, as you know, I'm a
20:33
big man at first sight fan and there was a guy on there called
20:39
his name's gone for my brain, proper manosphere guy.
20:42
Literally, I don't want a woke woman was what he said.
20:45
But he kept talking about I don't want a woman with green
20:48
hair and a nose ring. He kept talking about it and it
20:51
was, and I remember watching it thinking like, mate, shut up
20:55
about the green hair. Like he's a bit obsessed about
20:56
green hair. I feel like he secretly likes it
20:58
because he's going on about it. But it's really interesting
21:01
because now you've shared that article, it's green hair and a
21:05
nose ring. I mean, it's literally as you
21:06
said, it's like, oh, she could be so pretty, you know, if only
21:09
she had natural hair and did Pilates.
21:12
That's for the Pilates Princess debate.
21:14
But look, I love my Pilates, but it's.
21:17
You can do it and have tattoos and green hair.
21:20
But that's not what they think. They think, you know, you need
21:23
to drink matcha. No, it's all just like tight,
21:26
like tied into that narrative of what the perfect woman mustn't.
21:32
We talked about dating, didn't we, however long ago at the
21:35
podcast about how no drama. I think they want men want no
21:40
drama, which basically means no woman with a political opinion.
21:42
Well, this is what Yeah. She describes her nephews as
21:45
happy go lucky and baby positive and you go, well, that's nice
21:48
for them. It's.
21:48
Great. But also it's fine to be baby
21:50
positive and it's fine to say I don't want children.
21:52
Like, come on, I'm getting, yeah, I'm getting angry.
21:55
So the looks thing is like, and it's so stereotypical, isn't it?
21:59
Like if you're, you know, that view of to be left wing, you
22:04
have to look alternative or whatever.
22:07
And it's like, hey, there are plenty of women that don't look
22:09
alternative that feel like this. And there's and men.
22:12
But also let's just stereotype. It's just, yeah, it's, I think
22:16
it's lazy. See it again.
22:17
It's it's a lot of there. It's that's like the starting
22:20
limit for like not fitting in to the traditional mould.
22:25
And that's when they then go on to their not wanting marriage,
22:28
not wanting kids. They talk about voting Green a
22:31
lot because that's the new. I mean, it was Labour obviously
22:33
when I was a teenager, I was 18. When Labour 18 months ago.
22:37
Yeah, yeah, I was. Yeah, I was.
22:39
I was 18 when, well, I turned 18 a week after the election where
22:46
Labour came into power in the 90s.
22:47
Just saying because all of my friends, almost all of my
22:50
friends could vote and I could not.
22:51
So that was quite irritating. So generation of women who
22:55
apparently vote in green, don't marry, don't reproduce, don't
22:59
share household politics with their partner.
23:01
So that's like a real, like a threat to the structure they
23:06
said. Was it?
23:07
There was. So there were thirty final years
23:08
in Leeds that they surveyed and nearly all the men wanted to be
23:11
married with kids by 30 and only three of 15 women that they
23:14
asked wanted to. So I mean, good luck with that
23:18
guys. But I can see that because these
23:21
guys are not envisaging a world where they are going to be the
23:23
ones bringing up the children when they're envisaging having
23:27
children. They're not envisaging a world
23:28
where that's going to impact their career after they've left
23:31
university. So again, this is that position,
23:34
this is that position of privilege very much so where
23:37
they've got the privilege to want that.
23:39
Whereas women are very aware that they will, these young
23:42
women are very aware that they will be making a choice if they
23:45
have children between moving their career on at 30.
23:48
Remember, bearing in mind that these, you know, these will be
23:50
like 21. So it's, you know, 8-9 years is
23:52
not a long, it's not a long time to be building a career.
23:56
And then to say that by 30 you're going to be married with
23:58
children is going to be a big cut off for you.
24:00
This guy I. Wish I could.
24:02
Well, actually I think it's probably quite good.
24:03
I can't remember his name. I'm married at first sight on
24:05
the wedding day said I want 5 kids, I want 5 kids.
24:10
And she was like who's going to have them?
24:12
And he was like well you obviously and she was like 5
24:15
kids and he was like how hard can it be?
24:17
You just need to feed them and change them or something.
24:20
I got no way. Like they're a chair pet.
24:22
And she was like, but you. But I'm going to have to have
24:25
some like, like what? All very well.
24:29
This kind of yeah, I want lots of kids, which I'm saying.
24:32
And that's I keep going back to reality TV, but I keep seeing
24:34
it. I want lots of kids.
24:36
I want lots of kids, but there's not there's I want to be a dad.
24:39
That's what it is. They keep saying I want to be a
24:41
dad. I want to be a dad, but they
24:43
never communicate why. And it's, we talked about it,
24:47
didn't we, with Stephen Bartlett, You know, the race,
24:49
you know, the human race dying out or their genes dying out
24:52
type of thing. And they're talking about
24:54
fathering as just a genetical, genetical genetic transfer.
25:00
You know, like my genes, my DNA has progressed through the world
25:04
and it's like they're just seeing it differently.
25:06
Whereas we're like, yeah, I'm going to have to have it the
25:10
baby obviously actually deliver it, you know, carry it for nine
25:13
months and then be the primary carer.
25:15
This is, it's not forget my genes.
25:18
This is bigger. So yeah, privilege.
25:21
Yeah. And those, those luxury beliefs.
25:22
So I think that that can kind of vary depending on what kind of
25:27
level of privilege you've got, isn't it?
25:29
And that's always the thing to talk with about privilege, you
25:30
know, just be like being poor doesn't mean you don't have
25:35
white privilege or male privilege or you can still be
25:40
not privileged in some areas and privileged in other areas.
25:43
So in this particular instance, women don't have the privilege
25:46
to be thinking about having children as just some kind of
25:49
lifestyle issue. They know that it will be
25:52
affecting their career, their bodies, and then their whole
25:55
lives. It's not going to be kind of
25:57
they don't get the slippers under the table when they come
25:59
home and go, hey, kids, this is your 15 minutes today.
26:02
So they, you know, that's a choice they've got to make.
26:04
Whereas men have the luxury and the privilege of saying, Oh
26:09
yeah, I'd love to have kids. I'm going to have this amazing
26:11
career and kids and oh, it's going to be fantastic.
26:13
I was ranting about this very thing last week.
26:17
I watched the hustings of all the candidates for the Welsh
26:21
Assembly and all of them bar one guess the one does not support
26:26
more free or affordable childcare.
26:28
So a lot of them are talking about the childcare being
26:32
unaffordable and we need to help basically.
26:35
But the reform person has has said no, you know, no, like
26:40
doesn't even mentioned it. But yeah, they're the same party
26:43
that have talked about potentially taxing women for not
26:46
having babies. So we know they want you to have
26:48
they want us to have babies, don't they?
26:50
And they'll tax us if we don't is 1 has been one suggestion.
26:54
But they're not prepared to support with childcare, of
26:57
course, because they just want us at home.
26:59
And then you think, well, no wonder educated women that are
27:03
listening, reading, hearing, it's like you, you just want me
27:07
to be a baby provider at home. And I don't want to do that.
27:10
I actually would like a baby, but I'd like to be able to
27:14
afford my life, to afford to have one, you know what I mean?
27:18
And a life and a job and. Yeah.
27:21
See, that's why I think women hear different things when they
27:24
hear policies like that. They see, they see the immediate
27:28
impact that's going to be on them, whereas I don't think men
27:30
necessarily see that. Do you think, do you think it's
27:34
justified anger? But bear in mind that we are
27:36
talking about an 18 to 30 age group here.
27:38
So we are not in the 18 to 30 age group.
27:42
So technically this does not refer to us.
27:44
Even though I do feel quite angry and personally, I'm, I
27:46
identify a lot with what these people are saying.
27:49
And obviously I feel like I was also an angry young woman
27:52
between 18 and 30. It's just that we weren't online
27:55
as much. Do you think that these young
27:57
women are justifiably angry and pessimistic?
28:00
Yes, because in your 20s is the time you leave university or you
28:05
leave school and you think, well, I want to get a job.
28:07
Like, what am I going to do with my life?
28:09
You've had years of careers advice at school.
28:11
So you're thinking about your career, you're thinking about
28:13
your future. Also, we still live in a society
28:16
through the media, through film, where, you know, falling in love
28:20
and the next stage of our life is a thing, whether it's with
28:23
babies, without babies, you know, And that's the sort of
28:27
thing a lot of us think about in our 20s.
28:29
What are we going to do for a career?
28:30
Am I going to have a baby one day?
28:32
Yeah. You might not be having them
28:34
yet, but you're making those decisions whilst also
28:38
experiencing life for the first time in the real world.
28:41
And so if you're being met by manosphere stuff, it's going to
28:45
make you angry. But also you have to have a
28:48
baby. Well, I don't think I want a
28:50
baby, you know, and you might not have made all your decisions
28:52
then, but you're met with all this stuff.
28:54
I think the 20s is there's a decade where you change and
28:58
develop and learn who you are so much because in your teens
29:02
you're just at school hating life because you're at school.
29:05
And in your 30s you're kind of on your way, not always, but you
29:09
know, on your way, whether that's in a career or maybe you
29:11
have got family or, you know, got a bit more money.
29:13
Maybe 40s. Yeah, 50 is you're like going
29:17
actually I want to do all those things I meant to do.
29:19
So I think the 20s is actually. What did I do with my 20s and.
29:22
I know like, I really, it's time to go back, but I think
29:26
acquaintance is such a time of growing and like, what am I
29:28
doing? What, what, who am I going to
29:30
be? I think there's a lot of that.
29:32
Well, it was for me anyway, because you don't do any of that
29:35
thinking as a teenager. You kind of do, but you're at
29:37
school and you just follow the rules.
29:39
I. Mean, honestly, I am surprised
29:42
more women aren't angry A I'm seeing online really is I see I
29:46
see these alleged angry, angry young women.
29:49
But increasingly I'm seeing women who weren't angry young
29:52
women who were creating content about, you know, quite gentle
29:57
content about maybe body image and you know, that kind of thing
30:01
maybe was about as political as they've got.
30:03
I am increasingly seeing these women getting absolutely
30:07
outraged as more and more stuff comes up in the news with Liam
30:11
me to Epstein files, this rape Academy thing, you know, all of
30:15
this. I'm seeing women who were not
30:17
angry young women becoming being radicalized.
30:19
I guess these articles would say and they don't have green hair
30:23
and piercings. They are, they are
30:26
conventionally attractive, should I say normal women.
30:29
You know what I mean? Mainstream.
30:30
Yeah. What you.
30:31
Well, yeah, what they would call as mainstream.
30:33
They're not on this alternative side.
30:34
And yeah, to be honest, I am. I am surprised women between 18
30:40
and 30 haven't rioted and burned the place down.
30:44
Yeah, the whole marching thing I think is well does not helped by
30:48
new government policies and stuff.
30:50
But you know, we definitely took to the streets.
30:52
And I feel like we now live in a world where we take to Twitter
30:55
or maybe not Twitter anymore, but you know, like that's we
30:57
take to TikTok. We don't actually go out and be
31:01
angry. But then again, when we have
31:03
seen, you know, people not even getting angry, just peacefully
31:08
demonstrating or peacefully after vigil for, you know, a
31:11
woman who was murdered by a who was known to be a creep, you
31:17
know, and they got harassed and and, you know, like, well, yeah,
31:21
harassed is as a polite way of saying it.
31:23
People don't want to take the streets.
31:25
So what can we do? Well, what we can do is create
31:27
content on TikTok and create content on Instagram.
31:29
So I suppose that is the new that we took to the streets.
31:32
Now there is a feeling of. Take to the Internet.
31:36
Yeah, disempowered to take to the streets.
31:38
So let's take to the Internet. And yeah, it's, it's scary
31:42
times. And yeah, I don't have green
31:44
hair and neither do you. Although I did say just before
31:46
we came live sometimes in the summer and it's going swimming
31:49
pools. My hair does go green.
31:51
Yeah, and, and mine goes purple when I use too much tinting
31:55
shampoo that's supposed to knock the yellow out.
31:56
So I have been known to dye it pink occasionally.
31:59
I. Have got a nose?
31:59
My husband likes it when I dye it pink because he can spot me
32:02
in supermarkets apparently. I know, I think some reasoning.
32:05
Lots of lots to. Finish off I think I would say
32:09
if the angry young women do decide to take to the streets
32:12
and burn it all down, I'm fairly certain that there's plenty of
32:15
angry old women who would be right there with them to
32:17
support. 100%. Because changing it up a bit, I
32:25
want to talk about Stella McCartney and her new
32:29
collaboration with H&M. So it comes out today, the day
32:34
the podcast comes out. So I haven't actually seen like
32:38
real life response, you know, because it hasn't hit the shops,
32:43
but it has divided the Internet that I have seen because.
32:47
So Stella McCartney obviously is a fashion designer.
32:51
She first did her, she has done a collaboration with HR #4 in
32:54
2005 and this is her return to it.
32:56
It was hugely successful last time.
32:59
Stella is obviously known as an absolute sustainable eco ethical
33:05
designer. Her whole ethos and brand is
33:09
built on that and and she has teamed up with a fast fashion
33:14
brand which is H and they're expecting record-breaking sales.
33:18
It's expected to sell out immediately.
33:21
It's apparently the cool girl edit.
33:23
It's slogan tease and it's beaded.
33:26
It's a beaded Cape. I think there's snakeskin
33:29
looking animal print. It's very kind of cool girl
33:33
Indie sleaze meats Ibiza in my opinion.
33:37
Don't quote me because I haven't seen it all.
33:38
It's made out of recycled content and organic cottons, but
33:43
it feels a bit weird. Did it feel well in 2005?
33:48
I don't think we talked about fast fashion in the same way in
33:50
2005 as we do now. You know she in didn't exist.
33:55
PrettyLittleThing and Boohoo didn't exist.
33:57
Obviously there was ASOS and Primark and things, but they,
34:02
you know, the fast fashion as we know today wasn't, didn't exist
34:05
in 2005. So it feels a bit of an odd
34:09
collab, but so I do have some notes today.
34:12
I don't always have notes, but today I do.
34:14
H&M have said that as part of the collaboration, we have
34:18
introduced a new insights board. And this is going to be, this is
34:23
bringing together different voices and perspectives to
34:26
create a space for curiosity and listening because we want to
34:31
influence change. And we're aware of like animal
34:35
welfare issues and, and you know, we're, we are becoming
34:38
more sustainable and we and we have argued.
34:41
Like none of those words actually mean anything.
34:44
Well, that the next thing I've written on my book is Queen
34:46
washing question mark, which is basically when words are said
34:49
but don't really mean anything, you know, are they going to
34:52
create actual change? Are they going to, you know,
34:55
look at human rights? Are they going to meet their
34:58
their their targets? And they say they're reducing
35:01
emissions. It's a conscious collection,
35:03
recycling some elder recycling bins in store.
35:07
But here's the thing. In 2022, which was only four
35:12
years ago, let's do the maths. Then there was a bit of a
35:15
greenwashing scandal with H&M. Basically, they introduced
35:19
sustainability scores onto their products, but there was an
35:22
investigation by courts who said these scorecards weren't
35:28
accurate. Quote.
35:30
The quote was these scorecards were not just inaccurate, they
35:34
were deceptive and some garments had higher environmental impact
35:38
on them than standard counterparts in the shop and
35:43
they were sued. So that's only four years ago.
35:46
Since then, they have created more targets that they're going
35:50
to reach by 20-30, but there's not a lot out there on how
35:54
they're really doing no with not from an external person looking
35:59
into it perspective, all we have is what they say and The thing
36:03
is about fast fashion is can it ever be truly sustainable
36:08
because the model is fast. Something is trending, whether
36:13
it was on TikTok or on the red carpet or whatever.
36:15
We need to get it. We need to get it in quick.
36:17
And they do that, not just them, all these companies times
36:21
hundreds. And so there's so much product,
36:25
more product than we need, more product that van can be sold.
36:29
So what's its end of life like? What's the waste like on these
36:33
products? So yes, there's recycling bins
36:36
and yes, there's, you know, recycled cotton or ethical
36:39
cotton, and there's some recycled polyester.
36:42
But it's still. Yeah.
36:44
But it's like these are all small things when the the big
36:47
issue is fast fashion as a whole.
36:49
Yeah, so the big issue is the first R which is reduce.
36:53
Reduce, we guess. Good point.
36:54
Reduce. So what I'd love to talk about,
36:56
because there's a couple of things to talk about here.
36:58
Obviously we can talk about fast fashion in a bit because we've
37:01
talked about it before actually, but we can talk about it again
37:03
around, you know, it does create affordable clothing for people.
37:07
So there's that bit. But I think first let's just
37:10
talk about the kind of the the paradox I feel of the designer
37:15
that's most known for sustainability teaming up with
37:19
not the worst fast fashion brand on the High Street or in the
37:23
world, but fast fashion nonetheless does not feel a bit
37:27
odd to you. Thoughts.
37:28
So my first thought is as a fashion designer, do you
37:31
automatically put yourself out of that ethical sustainability
37:35
thing because you're always trying to sell products, sell
37:38
things to people, you're trying to sell a product.
37:40
So you don't want people to just buy one and then never buy from
37:43
you again. You them to keep buying for you
37:45
when you're producing seasonal collections.
37:47
So there is, there's kind of an issue like right behind that
37:50
right in there. But I think taking on the entire
37:52
fashion industry might be a little bit beyond the scope of
37:57
life. We've got the patriarchy to deal
37:59
with first. Maybe we'll, we'll maybe we'll
38:01
move on to the to the fashion industry halfway through.
38:04
So, yeah, could can you ever justifiably like say sustainable
38:08
like that? But working with H&M, I am
38:10
interested because obviously we don't know what the kind of
38:13
terms of the deal are in the background.
38:15
No. Was there some kind of
38:17
discussion with her where she was like, OK, yeah, I'll do
38:20
another collection with you because it sold so well last
38:22
time. But you know, is she then
38:24
responsible for making them put this board in place, which is
38:27
going to do all the the green washing and it's currently
38:31
investing in large brushes and pots of green paint.
38:34
Or do you know what I mean? We don't know.
38:37
Has she has she done this deal on a thing that could maybe make
38:42
some progress? And the other thing is, is, is I
38:45
guess I always have this kind of feeling when things like this
38:48
happen that sometimes any progress is good progress.
38:53
So obviously you don't want them to lie, but if they've got, if
38:57
it's a fast fashion company that's now having any kind of
39:03
awareness of the environmental impact of what they're producing
39:07
and making any effort to reduce that environmental impact,
39:11
surely that's better than them not making any effort to reduce
39:15
that impact. Well, I think they are making
39:18
some effort because they all have to make some effort because
39:23
laws and rules, regulations have been put into place.
39:26
So that's happening. My fear is almost the opposite
39:30
of that, which is like a tick box exercise.
39:34
Well, we've got this eco bit over here and, and actually we
39:37
don't need to think about it that much because it's going to
39:39
sell out in 24 hours. So we have to worry about that
39:42
for another year until we do another collection.
39:44
And it's almost like we've done our bit because I doubt,
39:47
obviously I was, I have seen the contracts either, you know, one
39:51
person doesn't have the power to change an entire company's
39:54
ethics and sustainability pledges because I mean, she
39:58
would if she became the CEO or the main designer or something.
40:03
But she's collaborating on a collection.
40:05
So I worry that it's like, yeah, well, so it's so next time
40:08
someone picks them up or the next company that that does
40:12
something similar, they go, oh, yeah.
40:13
But we did this collection with Stella.
40:16
It had, it had ethical cotton in it, you know.
40:18
So it's kind of like, yes, it's good, but I, I I just, I feel
40:24
protagonistic. Yeah.
40:25
Because she had done something with somebody else or, you know,
40:28
I don't know. Well, that's the thing, isn't
40:31
it? Or an affordable range for set
40:33
like herself. Yeah, there's a lot of brand
40:38
collapse of designer collabs. I mean, they've done, obviously
40:41
H&M have done them before. They did one Karl Lagerfeld, for
40:44
example, and it just sold out instantly.
40:46
So I think if that's the model, they know it's going to work and
40:49
they're going to make a load of money on Friday.
40:52
From H and Ms. perspective, it's like happy days.
40:55
I mean, they might get some positive press about
40:56
sustainability. Yeah.
40:58
Yeah, I do. I do feel a bit like this.
41:00
It goes into those kind of luxury beliefs again, doesn't
41:03
it? Like we were talking about a
41:04
minute ago that it's great. You know, Stella McCartney gets
41:07
to be an ethical designer and she can release a collection
41:11
every year or every season, sorry and say this is ethical,
41:15
this is recycled everything's, but it will be limited pieces
41:18
and it will be very expensive. Whereas not everybody will have
41:24
the luxury of buying those pieces from Stella McCartney and
41:27
they might like her designs and then be looking to replicate
41:30
that from cheaper fashion. So maybe a collaboration with
41:34
H&M would give them a way to do that kind of outside of the
41:37
ethical considerations. But is having those ethical?
41:40
I feel like there's levels. What's the so you have the the
41:46
luxury to think about whether your clothes are even ethical or
41:50
not. Absolutely.
41:53
If you are rich enough to buy Stella McCartney, but I don't
41:57
think that then exempts you from overconsumption.
42:01
I think there's kind of level, so like level 1, if you have
42:04
that privilege to think about whether your clothes are coming
42:07
from an ethical designer, then that's fantastic.
42:09
But that doesn't exempt you from overconsumption.
42:12
So you could buy, if you if you are buying, you know, thousands
42:15
of pieces of clothing and half of it's going to landfill.
42:18
It doesn't matter whether it came, whether it came from
42:20
Stella McCartney's collection and is all made from ethical
42:22
called cotton and recycled materials.
42:24
If you are then contributing to wastefulness.
42:27
So it's great that you've got that kind of level of privilege.
42:30
Then level 2 will be that you know, you can't afford to be
42:33
buying these clothes that come from ethical designers and
42:37
Stella McCartney, but you do still have a choice about
42:39
overconsumption. If your your clothes can come
42:42
from Primark. I'm going to say that this comes
42:44
from Primark while we're here, but your clothes can come from
42:47
Primark or fast fashion in anything.
42:49
But if you are still wearing it 20 years later or you're buying
42:53
thoughtfully buying pieces or even buying those pieces second
42:56
hand, then you may actually be contributing less to the ethical
43:02
issues around fast fashion than somebody who is at level 1 and
43:06
going last. Well, it's fine because my
43:08
entire wardrobe is ethical cotton.
43:10
So it's the, I do think we have to remember those 3RS reduce,
43:13
reuse, recycle and say, yeah, you don't get to ignore the
43:17
first R just because everything you buy is reused or recycled.
43:21
How do you, what do you think about that?
43:23
Because I know that you're very much a vintage and charity shop
43:27
person, which I I have been in the past, but energy levels and
43:32
stuff have mean I haven't done a good charity shop sweep in
43:35
years. Again, I think we've discussed
43:37
before that having that time and ability is a bit of a privilege
43:40
as well because it takes a hunt for charity shops.
43:43
I also see content creators doing a second hat charity shop
43:48
hauls on TikTok and they've bought masses and they're doing
43:52
them every single day. And I think, well, whilst you're
43:55
not spending huge amounts of money, you're buying a lot so
43:58
you're still over consuming. I have tasked myself to only
44:02
spend £40 a month on myself from a kind of fashion perspective,
44:06
you know, the stuff I basically don't need and I'm overspent.
44:11
This month. I'm gonna go.
44:12
I'll do the post on Friday. I have bought more because I
44:16
went on vintage, which is the problem with vintage, you end up
44:18
buying more because you're sitting there and you're
44:20
scrolling. So you're still over consuming.
44:23
But what? By setting myself this budget, I
44:25
have stopped going to a charity shop and just buying it because
44:28
it's there and it's cool and it's cheap.
44:30
I've now gone, yeah, it's nice, but I don't need that.
44:33
And what's then happened is I've gone in, I've bought 2 belts
44:37
this month. Wait, you see them?
44:39
They're amazing. And I've gone my God, that belt
44:43
is like iconic in 1980s designer, you know, and it's and
44:48
it's amazing. And whereas historically I'd
44:51
have bought like all loads of stuff, loads and loads of stuff
44:53
just because it was there and because it was nice, whereas now
44:56
I'm going, it has to be really good.
44:58
So I think you can back to your question, you can over consume
45:02
second hand as well. So overconsumption is definitely
45:06
a really important thing and something that I've always had a
45:10
problem with because I love my fashion.
45:12
So I used to when I was in my 30s, twenties, 30s, I was, I
45:16
mean, that's what I did spend money on fashion that literally.
45:19
But the good news is, is I still wear some of it at 53.
45:22
I did have TikTok this week of handbags that I had from the 90s
45:26
from Accessorize that used to work because I kept all my
45:29
favourites and everyone's like, Oh my God, Oh my God, they're
45:31
amazing. But then one person's gone and
45:33
gone. Why have you kept them all?
45:34
How can you have kept them all? And it's like, because I keep
45:38
things even that as a concept people, because we're just quite
45:42
disposable, aren't we? Whether it be landfill.
45:45
I mean, obviously you can give things to chat shop and you can
45:47
give things to flippery and you can sell, sell your stuff.
45:50
You know, you can do all that. But the point is if you love it,
45:52
keep it, you know, like look after it.
45:54
That seems to be. Like I do, I do have some things
45:58
tucked away, I think in like the backs of cupboards.
46:00
But like I've said before, when I was done, when I was diagnosed
46:03
with cancer in like 2021 and then put on three stone really
46:06
quickly, I had like I had a mental breakdown and sent like
46:09
20 bags of stuff to to charity. So I am not wearing, I am not
46:14
wearing a lot of those old clothes anymore on the basis
46:17
that present me hates old me for having a breakdown and.
46:21
Sending them all to the. Charity shop in a fit of a fit
46:24
of pique where I was like no none of it fits anymore and just
46:28
had to throw everything away but.
46:31
For me, there's I. Was and before that I was
46:33
though. Yeah, but I have to recognize I
46:35
have privilege because I live in a house where there is room, you
46:38
know, I have a spare room. Not everybody has a spare room.
46:41
The spare room is also my dressing room.
46:42
All my wardrobes are in there. I mean, to be fair, I do need to
46:45
assess it because I can't kind of get in the wardrobe right
46:49
now. So I do need to have a clear
46:50
out. But, you know, I have bags in
46:54
tissue paper under the under the spare bed in a box, you know,
46:57
but not everybody has that. So there's privilege.
46:59
Even that's much better than I do, where I just like bung it in
47:02
a bag and pull it out like a wrinkled rag.
47:04
I like the tissue paper. Yeah, I do.
47:06
Try and look after it, but there's privilege there in that
47:09
isn't there? So I think that's the other
47:11
argument about fast fashion as a as a whole, as we've, we've
47:14
talked about it before, but you know, people that say, well,
47:16
just buy second hand. Well, buying second hand takes
47:20
time. And if you need warm clothes and
47:24
you go to a charity shop, you need to find warm clothes that
47:27
fit you, that are in, you know, in budget that you want to wear.
47:30
And then my not even be anything in the charity shop when you go
47:33
there. So what you gotta go 5 charity
47:35
shops and that takes time, doesn't it?
47:37
Energy. But even on vintage, there's a
47:39
top I'm watching at the moment by a brand that my husband used
47:42
to love in the in the early noughties and it's really cool
47:45
top. It's only they sent me an offer.
47:46
It's only 5 lbs but there's vintage fees that's £6 plus
47:50
there's postage, just £10. And I wrote to her and said, oh,
47:53
it looks quite small. Can you, you know, is it, what
47:57
size is it? Is it an 8 or A10, you know, and
47:59
what are the measurements and stuff?
48:00
And it was a bit like, oh, it's only a fiver to meet you back at
48:03
me. And it's like, yeah, but that's
48:04
10 lbs. And whilst I might be able to
48:07
afford £10, not everybody can afford 10.
48:11
And I still don't want to buy something that then doesn't.
48:13
Fit, well, this is it. So say I spend £10 because it's
48:16
not, it's not the most money in the world, but it's still 10
48:18
lbs. Then I'm left with the product
48:21
that I don't want that doesn't fit.
48:23
So then I've got to sell it on vintage and it'll probably sit
48:26
in, you know, she's had it on for seven months.
48:27
It will sit in my spare room for seven months.
48:30
And actually, so again, it's easy to say we'll just buy on
48:33
vintage. It's, you know, it's second hand
48:35
we, you know, recycle is good, but it still costs money and
48:39
takes time and you can be wasteful.
48:41
And at least you can try stuff on and send it back if you order
48:44
from the fast fashion places, if you order new stuff, which is I
48:47
think so that that is an aspect of fast fashion as well as the
48:51
halls and the returns policies and things like that.
48:54
So recently I noted that Asos have introduced a fee for
48:58
returns and also you won't be able to renew your Asos premium
49:04
membership where you get like next day delivery and stuff if
49:07
you return. And I saw people complaining
49:09
about this was amazing. But it was the percentage is if
49:11
you return over like 80% of what you've bought in a year.
49:15
And considering the fact that they've bought this in, that
49:18
must be there must be a high percentage of people who are
49:20
returning over 80% of what they've purchased from ASOS in a
49:24
year, which is a really high percentage, I think.
49:27
And considering the the money, time and effort it takes for
49:31
them to put stuff back into sale, we all know that quite
49:34
often things don't go back into sale, which is when things end
49:37
up in landfill. So is that an ethical policy or
49:42
a greedy? Policy.
49:43
Well, I think it's partly because of all the influencer
49:45
halls. I mean, you see, try a source,
49:48
try ONS. Well, I see them on TikTok all
49:50
the time and they say they're sending them back or they're
49:53
sending some of them back and they're obviously not keeping
49:55
everything because they totally can afford to keep everything.
49:58
So I kind of get it, but I'm in between sizes.
50:02
I don't know what that's going to look like on me.
50:04
We don't have the High Street anymore really, do we?
50:08
And in fact, the Primark and H&M and Zara are probably the only
50:11
kind of fashion, you know, young fashion as well, shops on the
50:15
High Street. ASOS is online.
50:17
Well, I want to try them on. I want to feel the fabric.
50:20
I want to see if it fits me. So the fact that I could be
50:22
penalized for sending things back, back to the whole sizing
50:27
and just sizing in general, well, if you all sorted out your
50:29
sizing, you won't have to send it all back, would we?
50:32
And sometimes it's like, well, I like both of those tops, but I
50:37
can only keep one, but I'd like to try them both on, which is
50:40
what you'd do in a shop, wouldn't you?
50:41
So to penalize somebody, you know, it feels wrong.
50:45
But then I get crossed with any company because there's not even
50:47
just fast fashion companies, companies and that aren't what
50:50
aren't fashion at all. And they're like, yeah, you
50:52
know, if you change your mind, it costs £5 to send it back.
50:55
And it's like, but I can only buy it online.
50:58
What if I don't like it? What if it's too big?
50:59
What like, I think that's naughty.
51:01
I think that's greedy. I think it is we built into the
51:03
model. Can't remember there was some
51:05
kind of some kind of rule about refunding postage costs.
51:08
I don't think you're supposed to do it.
51:10
Yeah, because, but I think you have to specifically ask for it
51:13
because I had a row with, I had a row with Apricot a couple of
51:17
years ago, but nevermind, it's not relevant now.
51:19
I did get quite angry about it and start sending them very
51:22
snotty emails because they kept my 3 LB delivery and all of all
51:25
of their things on their website had different returns policies
51:27
and stuff. Well, I don't think you're
51:29
supposed to charge. I thought the Lord you have to
51:34
have to refund everything. Instant selling rules.
51:37
Yes, yeah, this is selling rules, guys.
51:39
Go and have a look. Yeah, I, I 80% is high though,
51:42
right? I mean, if you bought 2 sizes of
51:45
every single thing you purchased and sent one back, you'd still
51:48
only be on 50%. Yeah, but is, is the is 80%
51:52
because it's all crap. Yeah.
51:54
Again, that's a very good point that if you know when it turns
51:56
up and it looks amazing online and then you go.
51:59
This is made from paper. You know, 80% is high though,
52:02
isn't it? But but then there's quite a few
52:04
other like collabs. So Victoria Beckham has just
52:07
done a collaboration with Gap and I've been seeing people
52:10
reviewing that online. I feel like I haven't heard of
52:13
GAP for. Years.
52:14
Well, I know. And yeah, I well, I'm now going
52:17
to sing it back to overconsumption.
52:18
I bought a really cool Y2K Gap jacket on vintage last week.
52:21
It's still for a ride on vintage.
52:23
Yeah, on vintage. And I was like, cool, because
52:26
that's so retro. And then, you know, and my
52:28
daughter for Christmas wanted one of those, you know how in
52:31
the like, Y2K, everyone had a Gap sweatshirt with Gap in big.
52:36
Yeah, she wanted one of them for Christmas.
52:38
And I was like, gosh, wow, Is that now classed as, like,
52:40
vintage and, you know, retro and cool.
52:42
Anyway, So I was like thinking they were like a thing of the
52:45
past. And then Victoria Beckham's done
52:47
a collab with them and I'm like, they still exist.
52:50
And what I've seen is, is it's actually seems like a really
52:55
good collaboration from a design perspective because she's really
52:58
minimal and quite structured and Gap are like just denims and
53:03
kind of stone like beige colour caught, you know, canvas jacket.
53:08
I would think of them as preppy, yeah.
53:10
And so the two, from what I've seen, there's like a trench
53:13
coat, there's like a pair of jeans, the boxy white tee, it's
53:15
very Gap and very Victoria Beckham.
53:17
So it feels like bingo, you know, well done.
53:21
But then it's like, does Victoria Beckham need to do a
53:24
Gap collaboration? But then again, having seen her
53:27
documentary, the fashion line struggles, but her makeup, she's
53:31
like making an absolute fortune from from the beauty brand.
53:34
So it's a bit like, why I always think, why are you
53:37
collaborating? What's the motivation here?
53:41
So I guess it doesn't. It's not always about money
53:43
though, is it, you know? I don't know.
53:46
I suppose access to more people, maybe entry level in as you
53:50
said, yeah. So what how do you feel about
53:52
like collaborations in general? I mean, I, I have a dress which
53:55
actually a friend sent me, which I absolutely adore, which was
53:59
from the Vampire's Wife collaboration with H and MA few
54:03
years ago, which was which was absolutely gorgeous.
54:06
How do you feel about collaborations in general?
54:08
I mean, you're slightly more fashiony than me.
54:11
I think I love my clothes and stuff, but you're you're always
54:13
like, oh, this brand did this, this brand did this.
54:15
And I'm like, oh, I've been. I wasn't.
54:17
I wasn't. I wasn't paying attention.
54:19
I am a fucking girl. Well, Kate Moss in the 90s and
54:22
her top shot collaboration was absolutely iconic.
54:26
So it's been going on, you know, and obviously, you know, further
54:30
further back than that. I think historically I've been
54:33
all over it. I think, I think I said at the
54:35
beginning when Stella did her collaboration 2005, I don't
54:39
think anybody was over analyzing everything.
54:42
I think obviously this Hello, we've got a podcast where we
54:45
overanalyze everything. But it's careful.
54:47
This is kind of what we, you and I, but also the entire Internet
54:51
does now. So I think historically people
54:54
there were collaborations and nobody really cared, either
54:56
bought them or they ignored it. Whereas now everyone has to have
54:59
an opinion. And I think a lot of people say.
55:01
Did they actually? Design it, You know, when it
55:03
comes to like, design A perfume at Britney's perfume, did she
55:06
actually create that perfume or or not?
55:10
I just know her name on it. Yeah.
55:12
I think there's other, you know, people come out of I Love
55:14
Ireland and then I have a collaboration with, I don't
55:17
know, PLT do they quite? Often things like yeah, like and
55:21
vary and things like that. Quite often will do a
55:23
collaboration with the reality TV stars, yeah.
55:25
But I have to be careful because I do get sucked in.
55:28
So Karl Lagerfeld, I think it was Karl Lagerfeld.
55:31
It might have been somebody else did a collaboration with HM and
55:34
there were some pieces and I was like, I don't want this, I'm not
55:37
into this, not having it. And then it was obviously
55:39
selling really fast. And I'm like, I really want that
55:42
necklace, but I didn't buy it because it was so, but I might
55:45
have done. But there's also, I tell you
55:47
what also happens in his collaborations.
55:49
They sell out and then they end up on eBay for three times the
55:51
price 10 minutes later. So that's happening a lot as
55:56
well, which it's just like is a bit sad, isn't it?
55:58
But it's kind of not reusing now.
56:00
It's profiteering. So we will wait to see if we
56:03
like it. There is a body, body.
56:07
What do you call it? A body, you know, like a body
56:09
suit, body suit with Stella written on it, which would be
56:13
cool if were called Stella. And it's this kind of beaded bra
56:18
with tassel like tassely but which to be fair, looks amazing
56:22
and I don't think I'd wear it. I'm not sure if you'd wear it,
56:25
but if we were like 20 and I mean.
56:27
That we probably my issue with things is not whether I would
56:29
wear them, it's where I would wear them.
56:31
I think 30 like like this maybe does not suit my life when my
56:37
life is mostly coming here to talk to you and walking the dogs
56:40
around the block, some of it in my pajama really like.
56:44
This is red, asymmetrical off the off the, you know, like one
56:47
shoulder showing like little, this dress tiny, really, really
56:50
short. It's like, again, Ibiza
56:52
clubbing, you know, if you, you know, let's face it, there will
56:55
be lots of 20 somethings or maybe 30 somethings that will
56:59
buy it and it looks amazing. But it's just I'll watch this
57:03
space to see if there's any backlash.
57:05
Yeah. So if you love fashion, it's
57:08
very difficult to then talk about that, that the reduced
57:14
part of it, because part of fashion is you just want to try
57:17
new things and create new looks and stuff like that.
57:20
You have to get adventurous with your own wardrobe.
57:21
But you know, sometimes that belt would just be perfect.
57:25
I know and and taking ethics and slave labor and all that stuff,
57:30
put that that to the side and I'm not putting it to the side
57:32
because it's not relevant, but just, you know, putting that to
57:34
the side. Fashion is it's not is very
57:38
female focused. I know men have fashion too.
57:40
Before anyone comes at me, but again, it's almost seen as
57:44
frivolous and it's a bit like boy bands and teenage girls.
57:49
You know it's frivolous, but actually anything women are into
57:52
is frivolous frivolous and that is equals fashion and I guess
57:56
tailoring and suits and things that might be men.
57:59
Well, that's that's, that's serious and structural and yes,
58:04
important. Exactly.
58:05
So I do think there's, there's, I mean, I said fast fashion
58:08
aside, there is this rhetoric that we are all just.
58:12
Silly, I have people. Rocking up and telling me I am
58:15
silly and unfeminist and you know, anti women and dahara
58:21
because I get really excited about I don't have a piece of
58:25
fashion and I'm like. Yeah, I love that, where people
58:28
are like, Oh my God, you're so vacuous, don't you have anything
58:30
more important to worry about? And you go yes, like I put.
58:33
Every single thing I think about in a day on the Internet,
58:35
actually, maybe I do, but also I think I don't only think about
58:39
what I'm wearing. Like I do have other thoughts in
58:41
my head, you know, parenting, looking after my parents, you
58:45
know, as well as the freaking state of the world.
58:48
But of course. Sometimes maybe it's nice to
58:51
just go, oh, what top shall I wear?
58:53
Well, I smash the Patriot. Maybe not a body suit with
58:56
Stella written on it though. Or still like Stella the beer.
59:00
That was just reminded me of though as well.
59:02
That's the collaboration we want to see.
59:04
Stella And on that though, we will see what happens.
59:10
Thank you for joining us for another roundup of midlife chat,
59:13
hot takes, and occasional moaning.
59:15
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