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Episode 001 - Welcome to the Holy Wonder Podcast · The Holy Wonder Podcast

• 0:01
  Speaker A: Hello, and welcome to the Holy Wonder podcast. Today, we all start this journey together. The two of us sitting around this table have no idea where it will lead, but we trust God has a plan. We want this to be a space where the sacred meets every day, where ancient wisdom encounters modern questions, and where wonder is the defining characteristic of the world around us.
• 0:22
  Speaker B: This is a place for people of faith who aren't content with easy answers. We believe that the deepest truth often emerges in the questions we're brave enough to ask. Here we explore the terrain where scripture and experience intersect, where theology meets the texture of ordinary, where art and beauty reveal what words sometimes cannot. This is a place for the curious and for those who understand that wonder is not the opposite of understanding, but often its beginning.
• 0:49
  Speaker A: Our conversations will roam widely, but run deep. We might spend one episode tracing a thread through the Hebrew prophets, and the next noticing how the light falls through a window at a particular time of day. We will engage with sacred texts that have shaped faith across generations, trying our best to read them with open eyes and patient attention. We'll engage with ordinary moments that reveal themselves as anything. But when we pause to notice how extraordinary they really are, we'll ask theological questions that matter not just for the mind, but also for the soul. And we'll explore art and literature and the culture around us and how they challenge us and serve as windows into truth.
• 1:32
  Speaker B: We come to these conversations with reverence and honesty. We honor the tradition of our forefathers while making space to wrestle with modernity. We give time for the slow work of understanding to take root. We trust that faith can hold our questions, that wonder and knowledge can coexist, and that the profound and the everyday are often one and the same. This podcast is an invitation to slow down, to pay attention, to let mystery remain mysterious. It's for anyone who believes that the search for meaning is itself meaningful, that the journeys matter, not just the destinations.
• 2:06
  Speaker A: So whether you're walking through a season of questions, deepening the roots of your own faith, or growing curious about what it means to live with intention and awe, there's a place for you here. My name is Neil Mathis, and today my co host, Andy Yant, joins me as we begin this journey into the unknown wonder of God's word. Thank you for listening. Here we go. Hello, Andy.
• 2:45
  Speaker B: Hello, Neil. How are you today?
• 2:47
  Speaker A: I'm wonderful man. Welcome to the world of podcasting. Can you imagine, just a few months ago, we were sitting on a porch at Taylor Christian Camp in the middle of nowhere, Allen county, and I asked you a question. Do you want to be on a podcast with me? Can you imagine we would have ever made it here?
• 3:05
  Speaker B: I couldn't at the time, but I'm excited that we're here now.
• 3:08
  Speaker A: It's taken a bit. There's a lot of technology in front of us. We've practiced through this a few times,
• 3:14
  Speaker C: and we're going to try our best.
• 3:16
  Speaker A: We are very much podcast amateurs at
• 3:19
  Speaker C: this moment, so please save all of your critique till we're at least 50 episodes in because we're learning all of
• 3:29
  Speaker A: the basics as we speak.
• 3:32
  Speaker C: As we begin, I think it's worth taking a moment to consider the name of our podcast, the Holy Wonder Podcast, that sets aside a purpose. And there's some scripture that I think helps anchor the steps we're taking now and the steps we want to take in the future. But before we worry about any of that, Andy, there's a question that's worth asking. Have you ever stood somewhere and I don't have a particular thought about where it had to be? Maybe on a mountain, maybe in a hospital room, a graveside, and you just ran out of words. You had feelings, but not the words to describe it?
• 4:15
  Speaker B: I have. The birth of our boys, obviously, is something that. It's hard to describe. The feelings you have, the all that you're in at the time here. Recently, we went to the beach and just watching the waves roll in and out and thinking about God's creation and God's power, it was definitely something I thought about and was amazed at.
• 4:38
  Speaker A: I wonder, do you remember the first time you saw the ocean?
• 4:42
  Speaker B: I do.
• 4:43
  Speaker A: I still remember the first time I saw the ocean. It's one of those things that. That first feeling is still similar to my last feeling.
• 4:50
  Speaker B: It doesn't get old. It's just amazing.
• 4:53
  Speaker A: It really is. This summer you're aware of this, a few of the listeners might be. My family and I took a vacation to the Pacific Coast. We spent most of our time in Oregon, but took a little dip down into Northern California and saw the redwoods. And, Andy, you've seen some pictures I've shown you, and we stood amongst these tall trees, and that's the best word I could use to describe them. They were tall trees, but they're so much more than that. We saw things that are indescribable when it comes to how they made me feel. I felt small, not all that different than looking up on a clear night or imagining what it would be like to be on a boat, you know, hundreds of miles out in the Ocean. You just feel small. Well, that feeling has a name. It's called wonder in modern English. The problem with that is we don't always use it that way. We wonder about things like will it rain? Or will I have enough money to pay my taxes or will I get the job I want? It's a word that has a lot of doubt and uncertainty attached to it. But biblical wonder is different. It's in fact, not the absence of knowing. It's knowing something that's too big to hold onto. It's not.
• 6:20
  Speaker C: I'm not sure.
• 6:21
  Speaker A: It's. I am sure. I just can't get over how sure I am that I don't know the answer or that I can't explain because I know what I saw, but I don't have an explanation for it. We are going to be in a little bit of a deficit here, Andy, when we talk about a lot of these things, because we don't see miracles like that. God's not a booming voice from the heaven anymore.
• 6:47
  Speaker C: There are not angels stirring up in the tree out in front of the
• 6:50
  Speaker A: church building today with. With a message from the throne of God.
• 6:54
  Speaker C: So we look at these stories, these events, for ideas that can be carried
• 7:02
  Speaker A: through into our life. Wonder because of what God has said.
• 7:05
  Speaker C: Wonder because of what God has done. Awe because of who God is. And I want you, and I want all, everyone who's listening to hold on to the difference that we see and how distinct that word is, is in scripture compared to our life. Because it's going to matter for everything we look at today and everything we do forward. Here's where I want to start.
• 7:28
  Speaker A: I want to think about how the Bible actually uses words like wonder and amazement and awe. The Old Testament uses it to describe
• 7:37
  Speaker C: the actions of God. They are his wonders. In Exodus 15, the song of Moses, following what God did at the Red Sea, Moses asks the question, who is like you, Lord, among the gods? Who is like you, majestic in holiness, awesome in glorious deeds, doing wonders? I cannot speak to what Moses was thinking, and I won't even begin to try. But that line, who is like you among the gods? He grew up in Egypt. I'm sure he's thinking of all of those gods that are false and fake
• 8:14
  Speaker A: and fraudulent, that the Egyptians worshiped and
• 8:16
  Speaker C: served, and they cried upon for help, who never answered, who is like you, Lord, who answers these wonders, right? The 10 plagues, the parting of the Red Sea, just truly something majestic. He describes something awesome and actions that he calls wonders. Something that you see and you bask in the presence of certain that there are not words to describe the feelings
• 8:44
  Speaker A: that the Israelites had as they were crossing the Red Sea. My only thing that comes to my
• 8:50
  Speaker C: mind is like the meme of a person just shaking his head saying, I can't believe this is happening, you know, But I still know why. The Lord is why, but I can't explain it. Psalm 77. The Psalmist in a day of trouble seems to recount those wonders. He says in verse 11, I will remember your wonders of old. In my day of trouble, you are a God who works wonders. You have made known your might among the peoples. In my day of trouble, he even talks about verse 16, how when God's wonders are revealed, even the deep trembled. May we remember that in our days of trouble, that there is a. There is a genuine act of God, that all of our trouble would tremble. In the presence of Isaiah 25, verses 1 through 5 carries that forward. The prophet there records a psalm of praise, and it's focused really on the destruction of mighty nations and the protection of the helpless. But Isaiah begins with these words, O Lord, you are my God, I will exalt you, I will praise your name, for you have done wonderful things from plans that were formed of old faithful and sure. I stand alongside of Isaiah today, and I think more than likely hundreds, if not thousands, if not millions of my brothers and sisters who would say that we are in awe of the wonder of God's planning, of his execution, of the will of his hands in this world, and of the demonstrations of power that he has shown from the beginning to today that we cannot explain. He praises the Lord there because his wonderful plans are faithful. May we do the same. The wonders of God are truly wonderful and awe inspiring. I can't help but also believe that today it's worth mentioning in this moment that when those wonders were seen, the glory of God was revealed. John Bavar once wrote in his book the Awe of God that the glory of the Lord is everything that makes God God. And I want to amen that sentiment today. He is something different from us. He has a power and ability we cannot replicate. And I am amazed and in awe of that. I would have loved to have lived alongside of people like Moses and Elijah, people like David and Solomon, and to have seen the wonders of God. But because I didn't, I stand here today in awe of them, knowing that they saw them and were thankful. In the New Testament, we jump forward to the Gospels and we see that a lot of people were constantly marveling
• 11:37
  Speaker A: in wonder at What God has done
• 11:39
  Speaker C: through the life of Jesus Christ. Matthew 8:27. Jesus calms the storm and the men marvel. It's the word there, thamazo. It's found 46 times in the New Testament. They are amazed at what he has done and they ask the question, what sort of man is this? Even the wind and seas obey him. That word is used so many times, but so often it's a description of what someone thinks when they see something Jesus did. Andy, there's a real question we're thinking today. Do we ever take for granted how powerful storms are in our life?
• 12:19
  Speaker B: I believe we do. I mean, God's still in control and the storms we see from time to time, that's God's control and God's power and we take that for granted. We try to forecast the weather, we try to predict the weather, but God's in control of the weather and we just don't always think about it that way.
• 12:37
  Speaker C: You know, we know a few people who are farmers.
• 12:40
  Speaker B: We do.
• 12:40
  Speaker A: You've got some blueberry plants of your
• 12:42
  Speaker C: own on a farm up in southern Kentucky and farmers understand real well that they are not in control of what the weather.
• 12:52
  Speaker A: That's right.
• 12:53
  Speaker C: They understand that. I never feel smaller and less in control than when a thunderstorm is heading towards my house and I want to protect my children from it. Knowing that God can, you know, with a blink of his eye, a snap of his fingers with the words peace, be still, control, that is awe inspiring to me. It is sure, you know, live in wonder of how amazing and powerful that is and that God does that without even thinking. It's just a natural occurring ability that he possesses. In Luke 4 and in Acts 3 there are two instances where people are amazed, are filled with wonder at a demon possessed man being healed and a handicapped man walking. That Greek word there, thombos, is a wonderful thought to consider that I am filled with something that makes me pay respect, the wonder of what was done. You know, I want to live my life that way. That when I see what God has done around me and for and has done to the people that fill in my space, that I am in awe and I am filled with wonder. Doesn't have to be a miracle. We're not seeing them anymore. The booming voice, like we said, isn't appearing with guidance and direction. But the hand of God is still prevalent in the lives of so many people. We can see it. You know, there's In Mark, Chapter 5, the story of Jesus raising Jairus daughter. And it says that when she was Raised that her parents were overcome with amazement. I like that. Overcome with it. And the Greek word there is ecstasis, and it can be defined as standing outside yourself. Of all the things we've looked at, that might be the one that I think connects the most today. When we stand at an ocean, we stand next to a giant tree. When we stand in the presence of a storm under the clouds, right when we look at all the handiwork of what God has done, the psalmist would say, I am amazed that you who made the world thinks of me. When we stand there in that moment, we should be filled with wonder.
• 15:21
  Speaker B: We should, we should be like every time. Not just every, every now and then, every time.
• 15:26
  Speaker C: And not when it's obvious, but when it's less obvious. You know, I think sometimes, well, look. Look at the job I earned. Look at the health my kids have. Look, look at the success I have. I can. I can fill my car up with gas, you know, like, you know, you know, look at what I've done. And every single one of those things are a product of something God has done for me. And it might be something God did for me before I ever turned a breath in this world. You know, there's. There's. There's so much to be thankful for right now that you and I are sitting here at this table. So many people to think that we can communicate this message across the world. And every bit of it lies at the feet of God's wonder, like the wonders that he has done. And we sit here because he is actively doing things in this world that we should be in awe of. I'm amazed by that, and I want the world around us to be amazed by that too. And as we kind of bring this little part to a close and move on to the next section, which I think people are going to really enjoy. What strikes me most about these moments we've looked at is that the wonder always comes first, not some full, complete understanding. You know, the disciples in the boat didn't have a theological dictionary that explained everything Jesus was. They didn't have all of their theological T's crossed and I's dotted, but their response was genuine, full of awe. Sometimes we get that order backwards. In the modern church, we treat wonder like it's something that happens to you after life makes sense. It's a bonus for people who already understand. But in the Gospels, wonder is not a reward for the end of your journey. It's a doorway to the understanding along your journey. Keep that in mind, because that will drive Every single one of our discussions, every single one of our studies. What do we see God doing in that moment and why should we be in awe of that? I want us to live in holy wonder. To just constantly see the good God is doing and be amazed by it. That's why this is the Holy Wonder podcast. After a short break, Andy and I will be back and we are going to rank our 3 favorite moments of awe inspiring awesomeness from scripture.
• 18:03
  Speaker A: I told him advance and we've been thinking about this.
• 18:05
  Speaker C: He's prepared and I've come prepared with mine.
• 18:08
  Speaker A: There was only one stipulation. No creation and no salvation or crucifixion can be studied just yet because those
• 18:17
  Speaker C: are in and of themselves awe inspiring moments that will be reserved for future episodes. So we hope that you'll stick around
• 18:25
  Speaker A: after this short break.
• 18:26
  Speaker C: We'll be back with our list.
• 19:00
  Speaker A: Andy, it's time for us to give the list of our three most awe inspiring, just pure adrenaline producing wonder of what God has done moments in scripture. Now, I don't think we're going to overlap any. We've had quite a bit of time to talk about this. And for everyone listening at home, a quick reminder of the rules. You could pick any moment from any time in scripture, but it has to have a textual anchor so that we can study this and see what was awe inspiring to them then and what can be awe inspiring for us today. You did not have to have any kind of requirement of two out of the Old Testament, one out of the New Testament.
• 19:43
  Speaker C: We could have had six Old Testament stories.
• 19:46
  Speaker A: You probably could have had six just
• 19:47
  Speaker C: from the book of Genesis if we
• 19:49
  Speaker A: really, really wanted to nitpick.
• 19:52
  Speaker C: And what we're going to do starting next week is devote a whole episode
• 19:57
  Speaker A: to our countdown from three to one,
• 20:02
  Speaker C: starting with Andy's and then to mine. So Andy, I've done plenty of talking today. Let everyone know what's your number three ranked awe inspiring moment in Old Testament New Testament scripture?
• 20:17
  Speaker B: Number three for me is Job and his endurance of everything he went through from family loss to everything his, his just endurance of putting up with it all.
• 20:29
  Speaker A: Now I love this because there are awe inspiring moments from God in Job and I'm sure that when we go through this we'll talk about the whole theophany and the speaking from the whirlwind. But I love that you picked something that's relatable to us. Job is the one you're inspired by.
• 20:48
  Speaker B: Yes. He the ultimate example of endurance and hanging in there.
• 20:56
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I like the Idea of he just stayed faithful through it and most of us probably wouldn't have. I love it. I love that that might not be where people go, but it's the one that inspires you to see not just the work God's doing, but the work that God's people are doing. For me, my number three list is Pentecost. And I'm going to have a little similar connection that you have to this. There are things God's doing there that are truly awe inspiring. The tongues of fire, the speaking in different languages. I can't help but think that the influence of the message and everything Jesus did prior to that, the sheer overwhelming number of conversions, we might describe it today as like, that's something God does. Like that's a God thing. I love how it also, like Job takes this wonder of God and ties it into how mankind kind of facilitates that two people. I like that. I think those two are actually going to piggyback on each other really, really well. All right. So far we don't have any of each others. What's your number two account?
• 22:18
  Speaker B: Number two is Noah and his family being the only ones that were saved with the flood and that we may or may not get into. But was it Noah only that was worthy of being saved and his family got to come along, or was his whole family worthy? But just the fact that eight people out of the entire world at that point were the only ones worthy of being saved and God's patience to save them and not just start over.
• 22:46
  Speaker A: Do you think if you knew the number of people that were around, you'd be even more impressed?
• 22:50
  Speaker B: I'm sure.
• 22:52
  Speaker A: I'm sure that if we look it up and maybe we'll do this, that there have been some people that have taken some guesses at how many people lived in the world that day. And I know with people living longer that there's probably going to be some pretty outrageous numbers presented. I love that. I love that everything surrounding the flood is something that we can be in awe of. What God did, the patience God gave Noah for all the time it took to build that ark. And I love your line that of course, I think you've heard a preacher or two talk about before. It just says Noah found favor in God's eyes. It doesn't say Mrs. Noah and it doesn't even say his boys or his daughters in law did. I'd like to assume they did. I think you do too.
• 23:44
  Speaker B: I want to.
• 23:45
  Speaker A: I really, really want to. But there's a part of me that says if they didn't. It says even more about Noah that they begrudgingly helped him build. It's even more awe inspiring from his point of view. And I think then you double down how awesome the patience of God is because he doesn't have it for those eight people. He had it for that one person.
• 24:10
  Speaker B: It does. But it also inspires me as a father of the influence that I have, good or bad. And Noah's influence was obviously powerful.
• 24:20
  Speaker A: It was even. Even if they didn't believe, they definitely still reaped the benefits of his belief.
• 24:26
  Speaker B: Definitely.
• 24:27
  Speaker A: You know, and that's something to hold on to. My number two, I'm going to maybe cheat a little bit, which is probably not the best way to start, but I'm going to cheat a little bit. I'm going to combine the stories from First King 18 and First Kings 19 together. Our hero, Elijah, the great victor on Mount Carmel and the great coward at Mount Sinai, spread apart just by a few, just moments in the grand scheme of thing. Right?
• 24:58
  Speaker C: Two mountaintop moments where God speaks one
• 25:03
  Speaker A: time through action to all of Israel and one time through action to just the prophet. And I'm, I'm inspired by the awesomeness of God's power in his demonstration at Mount Carmel, but then also the power
• 25:24
  Speaker C: of his righteous frustration with Elijah at Mount Sinai. You know, don't tell me you're the only one who hasn't bowed down to baal. God says, I know there are thousands of souls who have not done it either. What are you doing here, Elijah?
• 25:42
  Speaker A: Like what are you doing here?
• 25:44
  Speaker C: I find so many of the works he does that are tied with wonders, that the real value is in the words. And to me that's a big one. All right, man. We're up to our single, solitary, most awe inspiring, wonderful works of God that we can't wait to discuss. What's your number one, Nayandi?
• 26:10
  Speaker B: I didn't break the rules, but I went close back to creation with Eve and the deception that she went for with the serpent. And then after that, Adam allowing that deception to continue and going along with it. And overall God's patience, once again, one rule and, and couldn't follow it. And then back to how that relates to us today. Sure, that we think it's obvious that Eve should not have fallen for that. But we do the same thing in a lot of ways that we think we would never would do.
• 26:44
  Speaker A: I certainly have heard people say I would not eat of that tree of the knowledge of good and evil. I'm not going to lie. And Say that I've never had feelings that probably would betray me if I said I wouldn't. But, you know, we zoom out from that story and everything seems so simple. It's probably a lot more complicated than we want to give it credit for. I love that it once again allows us to see not just God's work in, you know, creation. Not quite cheating. We'll spend plenty of time, but in the fruit of creation, right, which should have been devotion. They were made to be his image bearers, to. To literally be the inheritors of the world he made. And they messed it up. And instead of just writing them off, God's patience once again is seen. I think it's worth pointing out that all three of yours, God's patience comes to the forefront.
• 27:43
  Speaker B: I need God's patience.
• 27:45
  Speaker A: You know, of all the things that. That is wondrous that God does, his patience with us is maybe the most applicable today. You know, he gave us today, so we have today to get better at what we failed yesterday. That's patience. And you know, that that's a. I like Andy, that that might not have been where everyone went, but it's really where we need to be alongside of the other things. I like it. Don't fret over it, my friend.
• 28:19
  Speaker C: My last one.
• 28:20
  Speaker A: I'm going to be kind of a
• 28:22
  Speaker C: Homer pick on this.
• 28:23
  Speaker A: The Book of Daniel is one of
• 28:24
  Speaker C: my favorite books, and you could have picked a few stories from there, but Daniel 3, the fiery furnace. Our friends Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah getting thrown into that furnace that was so
• 28:37
  Speaker A: hot it killed the people that threw them into it.
• 28:39
  Speaker C: Yet they came out of it not
• 28:41
  Speaker A: even smelling like smoke.
• 28:44
  Speaker C: I'm amazed by the strength they had to stand up to Nebuchadnezzar. I'm amazed by God's power to overcome the will of a king in this world who had no equal. And at the end of the day, I'm in awe of how that story so resonates now, thousands of years later. We live in Babylon, and if we like it or not, the world around us is pressuring us to worship its golden idol. I don't know what that is for you, but for all of us, it can be things like money and job and sports and notoriety and fame and social media, and you get it. And it's everywhere. And there are penalties for not following that. And that story, I think, resonates today in a way very few do because of the world we live in. So that's my number one. I'm just in awe, just stand in genuine amazement of what God did, what it teaches, and really what it means.
• 29:59
  Speaker B: Faith overcoming fire.
• 30:01
  Speaker C: Faith overcoming fire. You know, I think there's going to be other passages in scripture that give us a hint at that. Trials and temptations and even our own real desire to just want to balance between. We live in this world, but we live for God, and the fire that kind of stands between them is our devotion. I think this is a great list. I cannot wait to really dig into them moving forward. What we're going to do for all of you who are listening, is next week, we will pick up Andy's number three, which is Job. Now, I'm a little jealous that you picked Job. I will say this. You know, Job is my favorite book of the Bible.
• 30:46
  Speaker B: I got to pick first.
• 30:47
  Speaker C: You did, you did. You did. It feels right for me to give you the opportunity to go first. I think Jesus said, if you want to be first, be last. So I'm just trying to follow that pattern here. There is so much for us to study through Job. So if you plan on being a regular listener, we're going to use each podcast as a launch into the next one. So you get a homework assignment. Your homework assignment this week is to read, really the first three chapters of Job. I think that's where what we're really looking at comes out. Chapters one and two are the historical, kind of, I would call it, the setting of the story, the conversation about Job in that heavenly courtroom, the actual events that happened to him. And then the key to the whole book in my mind is chapter three, the lament. As Job professes his belief in God, yet his absolute hatred for what has happened to him, the patience that God demonstrates there, not telling him to sit down, shut up, and be quiet is amazing to me. And then when we dig through the end, that is actually what God says. Hey, dude, just. Just be quiet and let the grownups talk. And his patience is so clearly seen alongside of Job's. So your homework assignment for you who are going to be regular listeners of this the Holy Wonder podcast is to read job 1, 2, and 3 for our next episode. I hope that you've had a wonderful time tuning in to this first episode of this podcast.
• 32:25
  Speaker A: I'm certain, Andy, that we are still amateurs at this.
• 32:29
  Speaker B: I feel like we are, but we're going to get better each week, and everyone can grow along with us.
• 32:33
  Speaker A: That's what I hope happens more than anything. You know, at some point, we'll be
• 32:37
  Speaker C: a lot better about where all these papers are.
• 32:40
  Speaker A: We'll have figured out even the technology so it's not so frustrating.
• 32:44
  Speaker C: And, you know, we'll find our radio voice. I'm not sure we're ever going to find our television face, though.
• 32:50
  Speaker B: I'm not sure
• 32:53
  Speaker A: I can't. I think you're a handsome guy. I'm just gonna say that out loud, and I wouldn't have wanted anyone else to be here. It did just get awkward. But you know what? It feels appropriate. I'm so happy that you're going to
• 33:08
  Speaker C: be here on this journey with us, Andy, and I hope that everybody learns and grows, above all things, to be more in awe of what God has done. This is the Holy Wonder podcast, where we want to live in awe of
• 33:24
  Speaker A: God and see His Word as the
• 33:26
  Speaker C: wonder that it truly is.
• 33:28
  Speaker A: So thank you for listening. Have a great day.
• 33:31
  Speaker C: Sam.