Latest / Rugby Direct / Rugby Direct - Episode 144

Transcript

Rugby Direct - Episode 144 · Rugby Direct

0:09
Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow
0:12
Speaker 1: this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
0:17
Speaker 1: Yet inside the game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct
0:21
Speaker 1: with Elliot Smith, powered by News Talks EDB.
0:24
Speaker 2: Welcome into Rugby Direct to the podcast in just a second,
0:28
Speaker 2: But just want to apologize for some of the audigo
0:30
Speaker 2: issues in this week's podcast. The perils of doing it
0:35
Speaker 2: over Internet and separate hemispheres sounds like I am underwater
0:40
Speaker 2: here in London and while it was gray and rainy
0:44
Speaker 2: here in London today, I'm going to assure you I
0:47
Speaker 2: did it above ground. So apologies for the internet issues.
0:51
Speaker 2: Hopefully you enjoy the podcast None of the Least plenty
0:55
Speaker 2: on it today and including into with Mark Robinson, New
0:58
Speaker 2: Zealand Rugby Chief Executive, so hopefully you can enjoy doun
1:01
Speaker 2: the Least. Apologies again for the audigo issues, but on
1:05
Speaker 2: with the pod.
1:06
Speaker 3: Welcome into Rugby Direct.
1:07
Speaker 2: Talor By foot Solutions lifting you and your business to
1:11
Speaker 2: a higher level. We've seen off Yokohama and Tokyo and
1:17
Speaker 2: we've moved through London for a pleasure to be over there.
1:20
Speaker 2: Over here, Elligant Fifth and Liam Apier big episode of
1:24
Speaker 2: Rugby Direct coming up for an interview with Mark Robinson,
1:27
Speaker 2: New Zealand Rugby Chief Executive.
1:29
Speaker 3: So I hope you'll.
1:29
Speaker 2: Stick around for that, both with them a few hours
1:32
Speaker 2: ago around a number of New Zealand rugby issues, including
1:36
Speaker 2: the decision to endorse Print Robinson as World Rugby Chair.
1:40
Speaker 2: I still will have that at the end of the
1:43
Speaker 2: podcast to David Liam welcome and look, the Wellington Lyons
1:48
Speaker 2: are at top of the pops in the NPC there.
1:52
Speaker 4: Indeed, Elliott, big week for yourself and Rugby Directs. But
1:56
Speaker 4: I do have an apology to make first up, because
2:00
Speaker 4: I've been touting the fact that the lines are going
2:02
Speaker 4: to go back to back all year and clearly how
2:06
Speaker 4: I have offended out tuner lucky Brethren because of course
2:10
Speaker 4: they won the MPC last year and we happened to
2:14
Speaker 4: largely miss that competition being in France for the World Cup.
2:18
Speaker 5: But two titles in three years.
2:21
Speaker 4: Very pleased to welcome you aboard the Lions train, so
2:25
Speaker 4: congratulations to you.
2:27
Speaker 2: Very happy, Yeah, delighted, delighted to win for season and charge.
2:33
Speaker 3: That's the kind of.
2:34
Speaker 2: Expect that I bring as a hand a Crusader fan.
2:38
Speaker 2: So you are very very welcome to that an ancient fan.
2:43
Speaker 2: Let's get into the MPCs shortly, but first and foremost
2:46
Speaker 2: ill Black against Japan. This is a weird old game,
2:51
Speaker 2: and your respects. I thought Bill Blacks at one point
2:55
Speaker 2: looked like it'd score every time they got the ball
2:57
Speaker 2: and hands and others. The defense was lacking the mats
3:01
Speaker 2: and sloppy eerrors. It's a really really hard game to
3:06
Speaker 2: try and provide any sort of analysis on, but we
3:09
Speaker 2: will attempt to.
3:10
Speaker 3: What did you make it that perm.
3:13
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was a bit all over the show, wasn't it?
3:15
Speaker 5: Like you say?
3:15
Speaker 4: The All Blacks cracked the fifty points after forty four minutes,
3:20
Speaker 4: and they ran rampant in the second quarter of the
3:25
Speaker 4: first half, conceited a couple of early tries or some
3:28
Speaker 4: really soft rough defense, but then broke Japan open it well,
3:33
Speaker 4: played with real pace, skill offloading, and had it all
3:38
Speaker 4: their own way. Some really second rate defending from Japan,
3:43
Speaker 4: you know, tackling that you wouldn't expect to see in
3:47
Speaker 4: the NPCs as a comparison.
3:51
Speaker 5: So some major question marks.
3:53
Speaker 4: I think about where Japan are at in that department overall.
3:56
Speaker 4: And then for a number of different reasons. The All
3:59
Speaker 4: Blacks went off the boil, didn't they. Scott Robinson unloaded
4:02
Speaker 4: the bench in the fifty first minute, sent on four
4:05
Speaker 4: or five players, and the All Blacks became really disjointed,
4:09
Speaker 4: and the second half fades that we've become accustomed to
4:13
Speaker 4: this year throughout the Rugby Championship struck again.
4:16
Speaker 5: So it left a bit of a sense of frustration.
4:21
Speaker 4: Bill Blacks probably could have would have should have gone
4:23
Speaker 4: on and won that game by you know, eighty odd
4:26
Speaker 4: points had they kept their momentum and attacking intents and
4:32
Speaker 4: level of skill going. But it was a really frustrating
4:36
Speaker 4: watch in the second half. But I guess for a
4:39
Speaker 4: number of individuals they played well. But then big concerns
4:43
Speaker 4: about how the introduction of the bench goes and those
4:48
Speaker 4: sorts of things. But hard to take too much out
4:51
Speaker 4: of that game overall, given what's to come this weekend
4:54
Speaker 4: with England, the level of opposition and just the nature
4:58
Speaker 4: of the team.
4:59
Speaker 5: It was very much a second string All Blacks team,
5:01
Speaker 5: wasn't it.
5:02
Speaker 2: It was a second string team And the fact I've
5:04
Speaker 2: seemed to live in players through London early a couple
5:07
Speaker 2: of days before that game signaled their intent and then
5:11
Speaker 2: what they were planning to do around that, and obviously
5:15
Speaker 2: we talked about the team name.
5:17
Speaker 3: Last week.
5:17
Speaker 2: It was relatively I guess standout performance from an All
5:22
Speaker 2: Blacks perspective for Mine Wallace a p once again. I
5:27
Speaker 2: thought Boody Proctor was excellent. I tho Cam Regard had
5:31
Speaker 2: a maybe a mixed game, has fifty or four minutes
5:35
Speaker 2: of game time and this first get back and more
5:38
Speaker 2: than a year. But some of those stand out there
5:41
Speaker 2: that you know, I'm going to push for what he's
5:44
Speaker 2: going to be in the starting side. He was thinking
5:45
Speaker 2: this week against England, but you know Billy Proctor is
5:48
Speaker 2: in the conversation. I think for a starting role at
5:52
Speaker 2: some point on this tour. Again, Cam Royguard would surprise
5:55
Speaker 2: me to become the BNK this week and start begging violent.
6:00
Speaker 3: But I'm not sure.
6:00
Speaker 2: There were too many other players that really hammered down
6:03
Speaker 2: the door and said you've got to throw out your selections.
6:06
Speaker 3: She can pick me booking him or at the Avivan
6:09
Speaker 3: Nex week.
6:11
Speaker 5: No, I tend to agree with.
6:12
Speaker 4: I think Patrick Twopolotu lead really well carrying lineouts his
6:17
Speaker 4: first test as All Black captain, and I was largely
6:20
Speaker 4: impressed with Mark t Lea as well, his first start
6:23
Speaker 4: for a long time on the left edge, but Caleb
6:27
Speaker 4: Clark's got that position nailed down. I thought Mark to
6:30
Speaker 4: Lea outplayed Sevie Reese, but the fact that Sevie was
6:33
Speaker 4: pulled after fifty minutes and has been heavily favored on
6:37
Speaker 4: the right wing suggests that he'll retain that role for England.
6:42
Speaker 5: So yeah, I agree.
6:43
Speaker 4: I don't think there were any other compelling performances that
6:47
Speaker 4: said to Scott Robinson, you must pick me. Wallace a
6:50
Speaker 4: tt was a revelation again from number eight, but you
6:55
Speaker 4: do feel that the All Blacks are largely set on
6:58
Speaker 4: their loose Ford trio at the moment, given those those
7:02
Speaker 4: injuries to Luke Jacobson and Don Papali and Ethan Blackheader,
7:07
Speaker 4: so I suspect they'll go Wallace teasing will go back
7:10
Speaker 4: to six this weekend. I thought some of Penny Female
7:13
Speaker 4: largely made an impact physically in particular, which we've been
7:18
Speaker 4: looking for from him after not really featuring since England
7:23
Speaker 4: and July. So maybe he comes into contention for the
7:27
Speaker 4: bench this coming weekend in London. But yeah, I think
7:32
Speaker 4: given how the lack of impact from Japan and particularly
7:37
Speaker 4: on defense. Probably expected a bit more from some players
7:41
Speaker 4: in that team, And I agree about cam royguard seen
7:44
Speaker 4: his first kickout on the fall, had another one charged,
7:48
Speaker 4: scored a late trial, was held up once, but still
7:52
Speaker 4: probably feeling his way back in to that level of rugby.
7:56
Speaker 5: What about Japan before we.
7:57
Speaker 4: Go back to the All Blacks, Elliot, they have rarely
8:01
Speaker 4: gone backwards because two years ago they pushed the All
8:03
Speaker 4: Blacks seven point defeat.
8:05
Speaker 5: I think it was in Tokyo. I think there are
8:07
Speaker 5: only two plays.
8:08
Speaker 4: Isn't that in this team under any Jones that's played
8:11
Speaker 4: their Blacks last time? But does it say that the
8:15
Speaker 4: top league, and for all you know, the extolling of
8:20
Speaker 4: that level of rugby and the influx of foreigners and
8:23
Speaker 4: the money around that competition, is the top league preparing
8:27
Speaker 4: Japan for test rugby.
8:29
Speaker 2: Well it's hard to make that argument because I thought
8:33
Speaker 2: the best player was the fullback Yazaki, who is currently
8:38
Speaker 2: owned the university and is essentially an amateur player, hasn't
8:43
Speaker 2: played professional rugby and is now going back to the
8:46
Speaker 2: university to continue to study rather than play for Japan.
8:49
Speaker 2: If I understand it, or the matches up here in
8:52
Speaker 2: the Northern Hemisphere, so I thought he was the best player,
8:56
Speaker 2: and he hasn't played top league. So look, I think
9:01
Speaker 2: there are a few things that Michael Leak injured that
9:05
Speaker 2: glorious team from twenty fifteen and a lot of players
9:08
Speaker 2: stuck around to twenty nineteen, but perhaps a generation or
9:13
Speaker 2: a few years to really until they see the fruits
9:16
Speaker 2: of those players, and you know, Japanese schoolboys ken whatever
9:21
Speaker 2: that were inspired by that twenty fifteen and twenty nineteen
9:24
Speaker 2: performance to be rising through the ranks and playing teith rugby.
9:28
Speaker 2: So I think there's a little bit of growing pains
9:31
Speaker 2: for japan there, And also think, you know, two years
9:35
Speaker 2: ago in the performance, they're being coached by a better
9:38
Speaker 2: coach and all want to see there in Jammie Joseph
9:41
Speaker 2: than Eddie Jones. So I don't know that any Jones
9:43
Speaker 2: is the right coach to lead the team forward. There
9:45
Speaker 2: were certainly fine that are going backward that last year's
9:47
Speaker 2: World Cup, still under Jamie Joseph, but I think, yeah,
9:53
Speaker 2: until they get some of this generation that comes through
9:56
Speaker 2: from the twenty fifteen twenty nineteen those young kids are
9:59
Speaker 2: inspired by that, I think it could be a tricky
10:02
Speaker 2: old period to Japan over the next two years.
10:05
Speaker 5: Yeah, I agree, and I think while the top league is.
10:07
Speaker 4: A a very desirable destination for foreigners, it's clearly one
10:13
Speaker 4: of the highest paid leagues in the world for the
10:17
Speaker 4: top rugby players out there, it's not necessarily developing Japanese
10:23
Speaker 4: rugby because, like you say, some of these players are
10:26
Speaker 4: a long way off where they need to be and
10:29
Speaker 4: Anitie Jones has a lot of work with that team.
10:31
Speaker 4: Just going back to the All Blacks, one player we
10:33
Speaker 4: didn't touch on was Damien McKenzie, and I guess this
10:37
Speaker 4: was a bit of a chance for him to roam
10:40
Speaker 4: free and players natural game after being benched for the
10:46
Speaker 4: final Rugby Championship game with Boden Barrett taking.
10:50
Speaker 5: That starting jersey.
10:52
Speaker 4: And for me earlier I thought it was a largely
10:55
Speaker 4: underwhelming performance from McKenzie. He made a couple of try
10:58
Speaker 4: saving tackles and there were a couple of assists in there,
11:01
Speaker 4: but there were a lot of errors, a lot of
11:04
Speaker 4: wayward kicking, and it wasn't the performance for me that
11:08
Speaker 4: that he needed to say, I'm going to stand my
11:12
Speaker 4: authority here and we gain this ten jersey. So I
11:15
Speaker 4: think if we weren't sure that Boden was going back
11:19
Speaker 4: to ten and McKenzie probably to the bench for England.
11:22
Speaker 5: I think we probably are now, yeah.
11:24
Speaker 2: I say so. Look he was I thought underwhelming is
11:26
Speaker 2: the right word that you used the one tactle went
11:29
Speaker 2: out in the full when all Blacks were in the
11:32
Speaker 2: second half scenario where they hadn't seen a lot of
11:34
Speaker 2: ball and depend things more willing to just attack and
11:39
Speaker 2: hold onto the ball rather than be forced into making
11:41
Speaker 2: tackles against All Black. They got the ball back on
11:43
Speaker 2: one occasion and we're playing on counter attack and picked
11:47
Speaker 2: the ball out in the full. It was just not
11:50
Speaker 2: the kind of performing the Damien McKenzie needed trying stampers
11:54
Speaker 2: authority and so I want that.
11:56
Speaker 3: In Jersey for this end if he had to it.
11:59
Speaker 2: The interesting thing is whether they now go Boden Barrett
12:02
Speaker 2: you can start all three of the big death matches
12:05
Speaker 2: with which respected at leat at the end, or whether
12:07
Speaker 2: they do of mckin the practice Charmigast France. That's going
12:11
Speaker 2: to be intriguing over the next three while. But I
12:13
Speaker 2: did think that Damien McKinley just think quite have the
12:17
Speaker 2: performance that he would be after against Japan. I guess
12:22
Speaker 2: and if we look so we've sort of touched on
12:24
Speaker 2: it already, but buy and lies this team to play
12:27
Speaker 2: England the early Friday and wanting to do time kind
12:31
Speaker 2: of picked itself, doesn't it.
12:34
Speaker 5: I think it does.
12:35
Speaker 4: Yeah, you've got those eleven guys, like you say, who
12:37
Speaker 4: went up to London early. That the front row that
12:40
Speaker 4: they've used all year, barring Ethan the Groet's injury, so
12:44
Speaker 4: he'll come back in Scott Barrick and to provide in
12:47
Speaker 4: the second row.
12:48
Speaker 5: I think they'll go Sam Kine at seven.
12:51
Speaker 4: Wallace, I think they'll go him back to six, although
12:54
Speaker 4: I would personally like to see him stay at number eight.
12:58
Speaker 4: So I think that that loos for trailer will remain
13:00
Speaker 4: in tech Courtez Ratima at half back, Boding at ten
13:05
Speaker 4: and Jordie I guess is the only real question around
13:09
Speaker 4: his knee injury. But if he's fit, you'd suspect he
13:11
Speaker 4: comes back into the midfield. Sevu I think takes the
13:15
Speaker 4: right wing, Will Jordan at fallback, Caleb Clarke on the left.
13:20
Speaker 5: So the bench is a wee bit contestable. Can Roygart
13:23
Speaker 5: and t J.
13:24
Speaker 4: Pedonara and Summer Penny you would think comes on as
13:30
Speaker 4: the loose Ford cover. Given that the injury is there,
13:33
Speaker 4: where do you see that the most contestable areas.
13:36
Speaker 2: I really don't see too many contestable areas, so you
13:39
Speaker 2: appy much no there. I think perhaps that the right
13:42
Speaker 2: wing berth is the most contestable one. I think mat
13:44
Speaker 2: of it, it was by and large pretty good to a
13:46
Speaker 2: couple of defensive slips. They've had one good, really good
13:48
Speaker 2: spot tackle that I recall in that game. I would
13:52
Speaker 2: go much to later on the right wing over every reason.
13:54
Speaker 2: I'm just not sure whether Scott Robertson will do that.
13:59
Speaker 2: Robertson told me at the airports in Tokyo Sunday morning
14:02
Speaker 2: that Jordy Barron's fit ready to go, so on the
14:05
Speaker 2: basis of that, I think it's too many selection issues
14:10
Speaker 2: around that. I guess they'll rotate the props over the
14:12
Speaker 2: next three weeks. Potentially in one of these games we
14:16
Speaker 2: might see to Mighty Williams and passibly OOTI.
14:19
Speaker 3: But again, but I think now they'll have to come
14:20
Speaker 3: off the bench.
14:21
Speaker 2: So I don't think there's too many selection quandaries really
14:26
Speaker 2: for Scott Robertson. I think it's fairly straightforward, and I
14:31
Speaker 2: guess this is the game.
14:32
Speaker 3: It's an interesting one, isn't it, Liam?
14:34
Speaker 2: Because England haven't played some that Eden Park chest and
14:38
Speaker 2: back in July. The All Blacks have played plenty since then.
14:41
Speaker 2: Scott Robinson said, The've grown a lot since then. They've
14:44
Speaker 2: I've learned a lot more about the game, planned the
14:46
Speaker 2: way they want to play. So they need to put
14:48
Speaker 2: that in practice Saturday afternoon here in London.
14:52
Speaker 4: Well that makes a fascinating backdrop, doesn't it. The All
14:55
Speaker 4: Blacks saying they they've evolved. I've changed, They've grown, They've learned,
14:59
Speaker 4: and I think they have. They've had two tests against
15:02
Speaker 4: the World champions spring Box in South Africa and while
15:06
Speaker 4: they lost those, they'll take a lot from that.
15:09
Speaker 5: Leo McDonald was running the attack back in July.
15:12
Speaker 4: He's not I think the All Blacks attack has evolved quite.
15:15
Speaker 5: Significantly since then.
15:17
Speaker 4: Scott Hansen's taken that on board and there's been a
15:20
Speaker 4: real drive I think to play a bit freer rather
15:24
Speaker 4: than being quite so structured. And England's like you said,
15:29
Speaker 4: they haven't played since then, but they too have had
15:32
Speaker 4: massive changes. They've lost Felix Jones, who was such a
15:36
Speaker 4: key part of their success in July.
15:39
Speaker 5: While they lost those two games.
15:41
Speaker 4: They put the All Blacks under massive pressure with their
15:44
Speaker 4: blitz rush defense and with him going, how does that
15:49
Speaker 4: affect that element of their game. Marrow ToJ was a
15:53
Speaker 4: massive presence, put the All Blacks under big heat at
15:56
Speaker 4: the line out and the breakdown, so he'll be a
15:59
Speaker 4: big factor.
16:01
Speaker 5: But also Henry Slade's he said, shoulder surgery.
16:04
Speaker 4: The English midfielder only had one game back at the
16:07
Speaker 4: weekend and he's basically the folk room of that rush
16:11
Speaker 4: defensive print pressure in the in the English midfield, so
16:15
Speaker 4: interesting to see whether they pick him after fifty odd
16:18
Speaker 4: minutes of rugby since July. England also don't have Alex Mitchell,
16:23
Speaker 4: who was very dynamic from half back.
16:25
Speaker 5: He's injured, so some big changes for England.
16:28
Speaker 4: They lost their strength and conditioning coach to Ireland as well,
16:33
Speaker 4: so not sure how much that would affect them, but
16:35
Speaker 4: I think Felix Jones.
16:36
Speaker 5: Is a massive loss.
16:38
Speaker 4: Interestingly, also Elliott, this is only England's i think, their
16:41
Speaker 4: third game from their last sixteen tests at Twickenham, so
16:45
Speaker 4: they'll be very very keen to make an impression and
16:48
Speaker 4: send a bit of a statement back at home.
16:50
Speaker 2: They certainly will be on always a special occasion when
16:53
Speaker 2: the All Blacks come to town in England host them
16:56
Speaker 2: at Wickham. So looking forward to that live commentary for
16:59
Speaker 2: Sunday morning on youtabk z MBI gold my Heart Radio
17:02
Speaker 2: can follow the live log on Indian herold Co in
17:06
Speaker 2: Zen and all the reaction from Liam. Well there let's
17:10
Speaker 2: wrap up the NPC final, Liam, when the Wellington lines
17:16
Speaker 2: over by one hundred minutes to get there, but they did.
17:21
Speaker 2: I'll be honest if I think been the highlights of
17:23
Speaker 2: it followed along on golds Tall commentary over the course
17:28
Speaker 2: of the weekends on Saturday in Japan. But look at
17:32
Speaker 2: you know, I think when any final goes to ext
17:35
Speaker 2: retirement to represent that those two teams are the best
17:39
Speaker 2: in the competition and Wellington just managed to get there
17:43
Speaker 2: those in front of the green.
17:45
Speaker 5: It was a very fitting final.
17:47
Speaker 4: Elliott typical day and Wellington gal for force wins and
17:52
Speaker 4: heavy rain. But despite those difficult conditions, the skill level,
17:57
Speaker 4: the intent was certainly there and and you're right, these
18:00
Speaker 4: were the two best teams in the competition this season
18:03
Speaker 4: and they went back and forth. Wellington dominated the first
18:08
Speaker 4: plenty came back in the second to again the leads.
18:11
Speaker 4: Wellington scored a late try but couldn't nail the conversion
18:16
Speaker 4: and then got like penalty Callum Harken about a forty
18:21
Speaker 4: odd meter penalty and Wellington managed to cling on, but
18:25
Speaker 4: it was it was a dramatic climac, a lot of
18:28
Speaker 4: lot of passion around and I think a very special
18:31
Speaker 4: triumph for Wellington given Connor Garden Baship's passing four months ago,
18:36
Speaker 4: his brother Jackson playing his hundredth game in the final,
18:40
Speaker 4: and some very you know, deep connections throughout that team
18:44
Speaker 4: to Connor, so a lot of emotion around that for Wellington.
18:49
Speaker 5: But what a season from Bayer plenty as well.
18:52
Speaker 4: That was their first final, first top flight provincial final,
18:57
Speaker 4: they won the inaugural NPC forty five years ago and
19:02
Speaker 4: this was a really compelling season in the way they
19:05
Speaker 4: played and some very senior leaders within the team. So
19:09
Speaker 4: a great final, great triumph for Wellington. But it has
19:13
Speaker 4: been a magnificent MPC season that's really put provincial rugby
19:17
Speaker 4: back on the map.
19:18
Speaker 2: It has indeed year I want to get stuck into
19:20
Speaker 2: that in the final four shortly as well the next
19:23
Speaker 2: one in PC season and.
19:26
Speaker 3: Hopefully that is the benchmark.
19:29
Speaker 2: Now for the NBC going forward, time out of quick back,
19:32
Speaker 2: quick break on Rugby Direct and we'll back with the
19:35
Speaker 2: second half after this.
19:37
Speaker 1: This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans.
19:45
Speaker 2: Every try, try and sixty six, every tackle tackles, get
19:49
Speaker 2: up again.
19:52
Speaker 4: Thank you.
19:53
Speaker 6: Before it's Rugby Direct.
19:56
Speaker 2: You are backwards Rugby Direct on our for final four
20:00
Speaker 2: four Rugby topics that Leam I gets stuck into. You've
20:04
Speaker 2: got Rugby out thing that livin George the form of Wallaby.
20:07
Speaker 2: Australian Britt Robinson to be the World Rugby Tier goes
20:11
Speaker 2: to a vote in November the fourteenth. He is up
20:16
Speaker 2: against the Frenchman ad del Latif Fnanzi and the Italian
20:21
Speaker 2: Andre Renaldo. Look I guess Liam Mark Robinson later in
20:27
Speaker 2: the podcast going to elaborate on those reasons as to
20:30
Speaker 2: why they're supporting Britt Robinson. Not a huge surprise given
20:34
Speaker 2: the twan thousand and five and then no, I'm quite
20:36
Speaker 2: well Britt Robinson. But they've laid the cards on the table.
20:39
Speaker 2: It's going to be fascinated to see how the threat
20:41
Speaker 2: plays out of the next couple of weeks.
20:44
Speaker 4: It is indeed all let because you know World Rugby
20:47
Speaker 4: is a very political beast we have seen in previous.
20:52
Speaker 5: Times.
20:53
Speaker 4: The World Cup was supposed to go to South Africa
20:55
Speaker 4: and then it went to France. Augustine pi show went
20:58
Speaker 4: very close a couple of I think it was the
21:02
Speaker 4: last World Rugby chairman election, and some late brown paper
21:07
Speaker 4: bags or phone calls swayed a couple of the island
21:11
Speaker 4: nations to vote for Bill Beaumont's to do a second term.
21:16
Speaker 5: So I think you're right.
21:18
Speaker 4: No great surprise that Miss Zellan's endorsed Brett Robertson, but
21:22
Speaker 4: it is interesting because he's the favorite now with John
21:26
Speaker 4: Jeffries pulling out a basically throwing a big tantrum after
21:30
Speaker 4: Scotland weren't going to support their man, so that really
21:35
Speaker 4: reshuffled the pack and laid the backdrop for this vote.
21:42
Speaker 4: Fifty two votes cast by secret ballot on November fourteen.
21:45
Speaker 4: You'll be floating around the traps there, So interesting to
21:50
Speaker 4: see how that plays out. And the Southern Hemisphere have
21:53
Speaker 4: never had a World Rugby Chairman Elliott in the history.
21:56
Speaker 4: So has the world game moved on from those divisions
22:03
Speaker 4: or are they still entrenched. How much of a fact
22:06
Speaker 4: did you think that will be in this vote.
22:08
Speaker 3: I think highly highly effect.
22:11
Speaker 2: They just need to look into any commentary on the
22:13
Speaker 2: twenty minute retard and it just splits down Northern Hemisphere
22:17
Speaker 2: Southern Hemisphere divide, So I think big time. But I
22:21
Speaker 2: do think it's going to be interesting to see with
22:23
Speaker 2: the Benazi and Ronaldo how they can manage to garner
22:29
Speaker 2: the vote.
22:29
Speaker 3: Do you think Six Nations is going to be quite
22:31
Speaker 3: important to them?
22:32
Speaker 2: Or England's already backed for at Robinson, so you know
22:36
Speaker 2: then it's going to be split. They're going to have
22:37
Speaker 2: to try and run the table around some of those
22:39
Speaker 2: other Six Nations countries. I'm not sure that they'll be
22:42
Speaker 2: able to do entirely, so they may split the vote.
22:46
Speaker 2: It may need to be one of those is dropping
22:48
Speaker 2: out if that block is going to get through. So
22:51
Speaker 2: I don't think that it's three candidates at the moment.
22:53
Speaker 2: Is going to be to see where there's on the
22:56
Speaker 2: ballot day and whether they can win the electoral college. Certainly,
23:00
Speaker 2: I think it's election happening in November, So looking forward
23:03
Speaker 2: to that unfolding, I think I would say the sad
23:08
Speaker 2: and a couple of hours ago before recording Mark Robinson's
23:11
Speaker 2: going our freedom at the Times of London and an
23:13
Speaker 2: interview there as well. They're open minded to the all
23:16
Speaker 2: blacks playing in the Middle East. I guess where your
23:19
Speaker 2: reaction to that is that it's not really a surprise.
23:22
Speaker 2: We asked Mark Robinson the same question, if I recall,
23:26
Speaker 2: and we spoke to him earlier in the year in
23:28
Speaker 2: our first interview with him around it, and they were
23:31
Speaker 2: open minded there as well. But you see the day
23:33
Speaker 2: with the all Blacks said in the Middle East, and
23:35
Speaker 2: what would your reaction be to that?
23:38
Speaker 5: I think it's a matter of time, Elliott.
23:40
Speaker 4: If you look around the world at most global sports, tennis,
23:45
Speaker 4: Formula one, boxing, cricket, there's an infinite number of example
23:53
Speaker 4: sevens has already been there, and we only have to
23:56
Speaker 4: look at the Nation's Championship conversation around guitar and their bids.
24:00
Speaker 4: I think it's a matter of time before that event
24:06
Speaker 4: and some capacity, whether it be the final or some
24:10
Speaker 4: weekend on matches ends up there.
24:12
Speaker 5: And New Zealand Rugby are very.
24:15
Speaker 4: Transparent, aren't they about chasing money at the moment going
24:19
Speaker 4: to Japan. I think they'll go to potentially the States
24:24
Speaker 4: next year, taking all black matches off shore. To try
24:27
Speaker 4: and maximize the revenue at least once or twice a season.
24:32
Speaker 4: So I think it is inevitable, and I think there
24:35
Speaker 4: will be an inevitable backlash whenever that happens, because of
24:39
Speaker 4: depending on where they go, because some Middle Eastern states
24:44
Speaker 4: are more progressive than others, but some of them certainly
24:47
Speaker 4: have some some elements of their culture that don't sit
24:52
Speaker 4: well with you know, where we live in terms of
24:57
Speaker 4: how they treat women and human rights issues. So I
25:02
Speaker 4: think if, when, if, when that day does come, New
25:06
Speaker 4: Zealand rugby will have to a bit of criticism and
25:10
Speaker 4: face up to the fact that there are some uncomfortable
25:13
Speaker 4: truths in some of those nations as well.
25:16
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I think the battle against sports washing has been lost.
25:22
Speaker 2: It's over, it's been dumb, it's been over a flat
25:24
Speaker 2: some time, and it's for me. It's not ca'se a
25:29
Speaker 2: Rugby being left behind necessarily, but I just don't see
25:34
Speaker 2: the value in rugby really making moral stands. Almost feels
25:39
Speaker 2: like if you can't beat them and join them scenario.
25:43
Speaker 2: Ever else is getting on board it Feldhill for rugby
25:47
Speaker 2: there would be major issue. Daddi Arabia for example, you
25:51
Speaker 2: know the black Beriens certainly ain't going to go play
25:52
Speaker 2: in Daudi Arabia. You wouldn't have thought, and they played
25:54
Speaker 2: golf and lyddy Cos played in Daddi Arabia before. But
25:58
Speaker 2: I suspect that the black Beans won't be getting there
26:01
Speaker 2: anytime soon. But I just feel that the battles kind
26:04
Speaker 2: of been lost. And we can harp on about sports washing,
26:07
Speaker 2: but the reality of toward it like the way that
26:11
Speaker 2: things have gone, and that might sound pessimistic, but and go, well,
26:15
Speaker 2: what's the point in anything? But to me it feels
26:17
Speaker 2: like the indevidsibility and it will happen at some point,
26:20
Speaker 2: doesn't step in the next decade. Talking number three, let's
26:24
Speaker 2: circle back to the NPC. As you said a few
26:30
Speaker 2: I think can you figure on why and how do
26:33
Speaker 2: you think that will affect the end our path where
26:36
Speaker 2: review is due to land and you to be communicated
26:38
Speaker 2: to the province of any day.
26:39
Speaker 4: Now, I think first and foremost, the on field product
26:44
Speaker 4: has been exceptional, and that's due to rule changes. Progressive
26:48
Speaker 4: rule changes around designed to speed up the game, whether
26:52
Speaker 4: it be shot clocks of scrums and lineouts and the
26:56
Speaker 4: ball at the base of the ruck, conversions just the
26:59
Speaker 4: general intent to minimize stoppages, play the game at pace,
27:03
Speaker 4: and I think your real willingness to embrace attacking intent
27:07
Speaker 4: from coaches and players. The quality of the competition, the
27:12
Speaker 4: competitiveness across the boards, it really has been a revelation
27:16
Speaker 4: this year. And I think also a factor in that
27:19
Speaker 4: has been the realization of the context of this competition
27:24
Speaker 4: and where it sets of fans.
27:25
Speaker 5: And the need to go back to smaller venues.
27:27
Speaker 4: You look at Plenty success and going to the Totonga
27:30
Speaker 4: domain selling that out a couple of times this year,
27:34
Speaker 4: even Wellington trying to go to potidor Auckland going to
27:38
Speaker 4: Auckland Grammar. I think the Stags had you know, seven
27:42
Speaker 4: odd thousand that's Stag Day and their local rivalry with Otago.
27:46
Speaker 5: So but those local rivalries are real.
27:51
Speaker 4: They're basically the lifeblood, aren't they the of the competition
27:54
Speaker 4: and the Heartland Championship as well.
27:56
Speaker 5: I think the final of that between teams Valley and
27:59
Speaker 5: was a mid canry.
28:02
Speaker 4: Had you know, six odd thousand supporters in a town
28:05
Speaker 4: of five thousand people. So right throughout the levels of
28:09
Speaker 4: rugby fans of flocking back and I think crowds and
28:15
Speaker 4: viewership we're both up this year, so really positive signs.
28:18
Speaker 4: In terms of the Pathway review, I don't see it
28:21
Speaker 4: having a major impact and I think that will create
28:24
Speaker 4: a bit of a backlash. I think there is a
28:25
Speaker 4: need to streamline some of the duplication with academies that
28:30
Speaker 4: we've got throughout New Zealand, but.
28:33
Speaker 5: There's all sorts of spin offs that come with that.
28:36
Speaker 4: Do you want all New Zealand Rugby's talent congregating in
28:40
Speaker 4: the big city centers in the Super Rugby bases? How
28:44
Speaker 4: does that affect the grassroots game and the provincial sensors.
28:49
Speaker 4: So every decision has unintended consequences, doesn't it.
28:53
Speaker 5: So Super Raby wants one thing, the.
28:56
Speaker 4: Province is one another, and it's not an easy thing
28:59
Speaker 4: to sort out.
29:01
Speaker 3: No, it's not, And I'm not sure it would have
29:03
Speaker 3: picked the Pathways review at all.
29:04
Speaker 2: I think I mean too late for that, But I
29:08
Speaker 2: think there are definitely some streamlining that could be happening
29:14
Speaker 2: in some of the academy is not saying all they should.
29:16
Speaker 3: Be funneled into Super Rugby Academy, but there.
29:19
Speaker 2: Could be some further steps there around that that you
29:23
Speaker 2: know could be taken away and put into streamline focus
29:27
Speaker 2: rather than the sort of two step approach that is
29:32
Speaker 2: there at the moment. So I think they can that
29:35
Speaker 2: can certainly be tweaked, but I don't think there's too
29:39
Speaker 2: much else that'll be taken out of this year's NBC.
29:41
Speaker 3: On that topic, then what does the perfect NBC format
29:45
Speaker 3: look like? The here have we got it at the moment?
29:48
Speaker 5: I think we do.
29:49
Speaker 4: I think going back to one division has been a success.
29:53
Speaker 4: Everyone playing everyone and the competitiveness largely across the board.
29:58
Speaker 4: I think, you know, man or two struggled a bit
30:01
Speaker 4: this year, but they were still reasonably competitive by plenty
30:05
Speaker 4: of making the final for the first time, Auckland having
30:08
Speaker 4: a poor season and being tipped up, you know, Canterbury
30:12
Speaker 4: struggling early and coming back late. That there was just
30:16
Speaker 4: the competitiveness across the board I think sets the benchmark
30:20
Speaker 4: for any competition. You want to turn up each week,
30:23
Speaker 4: each game and not know who's going to win.
30:25
Speaker 5: So I think the just the distribution of talents.
30:30
Speaker 4: I think provinces are largely working out that that they
30:34
Speaker 4: need to go local and bring in, you know, promote
30:37
Speaker 4: from within. We've seen a bit of an influx of
30:40
Speaker 4: Australian talent. Tane Edmund was a real success for North
30:44
Speaker 4: Harbor and there were a couple of other examples as well,
30:47
Speaker 4: so I think certainly in some hemisphere capacity that competition
30:55
Speaker 4: is envy of Australia that love the equivalent. Obviously South
30:59
Speaker 4: Africa is the Curry Cup, which is a great breeding
31:02
Speaker 4: gap ground for them. But I think the format worked
31:05
Speaker 4: really well this year, and I think the n PC
31:08
Speaker 4: is as remains a really critical pathway to promote, you know,
31:12
Speaker 4: the next generation of New Zealand talent.
31:14
Speaker 2: I do think this possibility could bend off a couple
31:16
Speaker 2: of teams from the First Division or the MBC and
31:21
Speaker 2: then go into a promotion relegation scenario.
31:25
Speaker 3: I can remember the.
31:27
Speaker 2: A Young Slash old enough to remember teenh Country and
31:30
Speaker 2: the Top Light in the mid nineteen nineties. I'd love
31:33
Speaker 2: to get promotion relegation put of back in it and
31:36
Speaker 2: go back to say a ten team First Division then
31:40
Speaker 2: split off around that.
31:42
Speaker 3: I don't know that it will ever happen, but I
31:44
Speaker 3: would love to see promotion relegation back in the mix.
31:50
Speaker 5: Central Viking xerition.
31:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I think there is at a time the
31:54
Speaker 2: drums are beating. It didn't work first time around, but
31:57
Speaker 2: any good ideas that we're explored for the second time
32:00
Speaker 2: and those orange and blue jerseys were you know, something
32:05
Speaker 2: to behold. So if we can see that back then
32:08
Speaker 2: I think it's happy days ahead. Hey, let's move on
32:11
Speaker 2: there to my chat with Mark Robinson. Sat down with
32:14
Speaker 2: them at a cafe in Kensington Euly Gert today Monday
32:19
Speaker 2: here in London about a whole range of rugby issue
32:23
Speaker 2: including their endorsement of Robinson as the World Rugby Chair
32:28
Speaker 2: head of that boat next month.
32:29
Speaker 3: Let's take a listening to that.
32:30
Speaker 2: Ended up Chief executive Mark Robinson. Good to be sitting
32:33
Speaker 2: it's a rainy or day in London, but be good
32:35
Speaker 2: to catch up in Kensington and.
32:38
Speaker 6: A test week in London's always prettypecial, isn't it.
32:41
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's pretty cool to be back in this part
32:42
Speaker 7: of the world, isn't it. There's definitely a lot of
32:45
Speaker 7: hype around the whole autumn series which has built up
32:49
Speaker 7: these amazing fixtures. I guess we're a little bit ahead
32:53
Speaker 7: of the rest of them with this game just outside
32:56
Speaker 7: the Red nine window, but there's a huge amount of
32:58
Speaker 7: excitement building. Feels like a lot of hype from expect Kiwis,
33:02
Speaker 7: and we know the English are certainly wanting to know
33:05
Speaker 7: in their own lines, right what happened in July with
33:08
Speaker 7: a couple of close games there, So you got to
33:09
Speaker 7: be a big.
33:09
Speaker 2: Week It's been a big weekend as well. Japan, let's
33:12
Speaker 2: start there. It's an important market to the New Zealand rugby.
33:15
Speaker 2: What do you get out of these test matches I
33:17
Speaker 2: suppose going up to Japan playing the All Blacks, but
33:19
Speaker 2: also when the Maldi All Blacks go up All Black
33:22
Speaker 2: swifteen what are the vital things you get out of
33:24
Speaker 2: these Japane trips.
33:25
Speaker 7: Well, the basis for the memory of understanding we signed
33:28
Speaker 7: at the start last year was to make sure we
33:32
Speaker 7: had more regular contact in that market. So historically we'd
33:35
Speaker 7: gone out once in every four or five years look
33:39
Speaker 7: to have a sort of strong commercial outcome from a
33:42
Speaker 7: one off event, but it wasn't really allowing us to
33:46
Speaker 7: build good partnerships and long term connections with the fans.
33:48
Speaker 7: So as I'm sure people will see over the last
33:52
Speaker 7: two years, we've been up there a lot in July
33:56
Speaker 7: and October and even with Super Rugby preseason games last year,
34:01
Speaker 7: so all of that just builds more continuity, more relationships
34:05
Speaker 7: with existing partners where we have quite a on portfolio
34:09
Speaker 7: of commercial partners now and prospects as well as the fans.
34:13
Speaker 7: And you know, I think you would have seen through
34:14
Speaker 7: the week just the way the Japanese fans are connecting
34:16
Speaker 7: with our teams is fantastic.
34:18
Speaker 8: So look, it's it's been a really.
34:20
Speaker 7: Really successful first sort of eighty months to two years
34:23
Speaker 7: in this and certainly the weekend and the week of
34:28
Speaker 7: the match allowed us to build on that with.
34:31
Speaker 8: Any at a welcoming event.
34:32
Speaker 7: We had a whole range of meetings with existing partners,
34:35
Speaker 7: new prospects as well as Jay are a few about
34:41
Speaker 7: not only our EMOU but works such as the Nation's
34:43
Speaker 7: Cup and things that are happening at World Rugby as well.
34:45
Speaker 8: So or in all a really productive time.
34:47
Speaker 2: While that was happening with just before combination of a
34:49
Speaker 2: big NPC season at which it seemed that interest levels
34:52
Speaker 2: had increased, I guess it was as pretty ange and
34:56
Speaker 2: bad plenty.
34:57
Speaker 6: There was some upsets along the way. What do you
34:58
Speaker 6: make of the.
34:59
Speaker 2: NBC season and the context of I guess we're news
35:02
Speaker 2: on rugby season at the moment.
35:03
Speaker 7: Well, we've always been massive supporters of the competition, but
35:07
Speaker 7: we've also been really clear that, you know, we need
35:09
Speaker 7: to make it work, like a lot of things in rugby,
35:11
Speaker 7: within a financial envelope. So yeah, all the great things
35:15
Speaker 7: we've seen in the competition over the years, the history,
35:19
Speaker 7: the connection to community, the provincial rivalries, and the emerging
35:22
Speaker 7: talent and the great stories of an unearthing.
35:25
Speaker 5: Future stars were all there to see.
35:28
Speaker 7: But as you say, some really nice sort of competitive
35:31
Speaker 7: tension around uncertainty of results, which she helped give the competition
35:36
Speaker 7: a lot of new impetus, I guess, especially since the
35:39
Speaker 7: start in the middle stage, it felt like there was
35:41
Speaker 7: lots of things happening every weekend, there were sort of
35:43
Speaker 7: you know, some upset results, which was fantastic, and then
35:46
Speaker 7: into the playoffs we saw some really high quality rugby.
35:48
Speaker 7: I think from what we've seen, certainly the attendances and
35:54
Speaker 7: the social media footprint's been really really.
35:56
Speaker 8: Positive, and I think the style.
35:59
Speaker 7: Of rugby built on what we saw in Super Rugby Pacific,
36:02
Speaker 7: where again we had record viewership and social media footprint
36:07
Speaker 7: and just a whole lot of positives entiment around the
36:09
Speaker 7: laws we've been leading globally, I guess, and the shape
36:12
Speaker 7: of the game and just how expensive and and sort
36:16
Speaker 7: of free flowing the games have been so overalllready positive.
36:19
Speaker 2: Where does that lean into with the pathways work that
36:21
Speaker 2: is ongoing around the game in New Zealand. Does the
36:25
Speaker 2: NPC that we've just seen help provide some data around
36:29
Speaker 2: where this competition needs to go?
36:32
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean that works. I think has been really clear.
36:35
Speaker 7: It's coming to a close now and we're going out
36:36
Speaker 7: to share that with stakeholders in the.
36:38
Speaker 8: Next week or two.
36:43
Speaker 7: I mean it does validate, you know, the importance of
36:46
Speaker 7: the competition. But as I say, we've always recognized it's
36:49
Speaker 7: got an important place in New Zealand right be. It's
36:51
Speaker 7: just how we make that fit within all the other
36:54
Speaker 7: pathways and competitions we're doing. And so we're looking forward
36:58
Speaker 7: to sitting down showing an update of the reports in
37:01
Speaker 7: the near future, and then sitting down in December with
37:04
Speaker 7: all the stakeholders again and mapping out a work plan
37:07
Speaker 7: for twenty twenty five to how we work through this
37:10
Speaker 7: sort of this reset work that we're looking to from
37:12
Speaker 7: the end of twenty five Star to twenty six, where
37:14
Speaker 7: we hope to put everything together and come up with
37:16
Speaker 7: a more financially sustainable model.
37:19
Speaker 2: I can't say too much, but is it a dramatic
37:21
Speaker 2: reset you're looking at at this point in time?
37:22
Speaker 7: Oh, look at this is really good for the work
37:25
Speaker 7: to go and get in front of the stakeholders first
37:28
Speaker 7: and foremost, and we want to be able to share
37:31
Speaker 7: it with them. They are independent reports, so you know
37:33
Speaker 7: we're not going to be saying too much more about
37:35
Speaker 7: them other than just sharing initially and gaining some initial
37:37
Speaker 7: feedback and views and providing some clarifications to question. So
37:41
Speaker 7: that's what the next steps about. Would be unfair to
37:43
Speaker 7: talk about it any more than that.
37:44
Speaker 2: The stage's been a couple of weeks coming up for
37:46
Speaker 2: rugby or Wild's context. As this podcast goes up, you've
37:49
Speaker 2: just announced the NZR is backing Brett Robinson, the Australian
37:52
Speaker 2: for World Rugby chare ahead of the other two candidates.
37:56
Speaker 6: Why Brett Robinson? Why is either the News on Rugby choice?
37:59
Speaker 7: Well, I guess we've been considering this decision now for
38:03
Speaker 7: the last two to three months, and certainly our start
38:06
Speaker 7: point wasn't to focus on personalities or Northern Hemisphere, Southern
38:10
Speaker 7: Hemisphere or anything like that. It was really about looking
38:12
Speaker 7: at what we think the future of the game needs
38:15
Speaker 7: now and establishing a set of criteria to match that,
38:20
Speaker 7: to consider the candidates against and for us.
38:24
Speaker 8: You know, some of the things that came through as
38:26
Speaker 8: we thought were important were, you.
38:29
Speaker 7: Know, someone with a clear vision for the game, that
38:31
Speaker 7: was progressive, that recognizes games got to evolve.
38:36
Speaker 8: In different areas on and off the field.
38:40
Speaker 7: Someone that was deeply connected to and passionate about the game,
38:44
Speaker 7: but had also worked in environments that were large and
38:49
Speaker 7: complex and multi dimensional in terms of stakeholder demands and
38:52
Speaker 7: that sort of thing. So when you weigh all of
38:55
Speaker 7: that up and you think about issues such as as
38:59
Speaker 7: player welfare, where you know, Brett's worked in this space
39:02
Speaker 7: as a medical doctor and being involved in high performance sport,
39:06
Speaker 7: you know he understands the chill into the sport in
39:09
Speaker 7: that Australian market. There are clearly, you know, some some
39:12
Speaker 7: rival codes which are focusing on you know, how they
39:15
Speaker 7: connect in terms of the entertainment space with with fans.
39:18
Speaker 7: So he brings a unique lens there. I think he
39:22
Speaker 7: understands the emerging market space really well in terms of
39:26
Speaker 7: the opportunities because the proximity of Australia in the United
39:30
Speaker 7: States and Japan. So there are a range of different
39:33
Speaker 7: things where we think he against.
39:36
Speaker 8: That criteria were established.
39:37
Speaker 2: Was a preferred candidate, did you We presented to by
39:41
Speaker 2: Benazzi of France, RONALDA.
39:42
Speaker 6: Vetaly did Bendiji on Ragy here From those two.
39:44
Speaker 7: We've had conversations with them through the last little while,
39:51
Speaker 7: you know, and I think when we look at again
39:55
Speaker 7: where we see the future of the game, we think
39:58
Speaker 7: that that, Yeah, Brett's it's just a strong candidate.
40:04
Speaker 8: For all the reasons I talked about before.
40:05
Speaker 2: I feel confident you could work with one of those
40:07
Speaker 2: two if they did get the numb is in a
40:08
Speaker 2: couple of weeks time.
40:09
Speaker 8: Oh look, I'm sure you know.
40:11
Speaker 7: It's like any of these situations that democratic process is.
40:16
Speaker 7: No one's sure about how things will play out. But
40:21
Speaker 7: I'm sure you just you have to get on and
40:23
Speaker 7: make things work. In New Zealand would put its best
40:26
Speaker 7: foot forward to make sure that it's considered in the
40:29
Speaker 7: setup of any new board in any new working structure
40:33
Speaker 7: across world.
40:33
Speaker 6: Rugby in a couple of weeks time.
40:35
Speaker 2: The vote as well on the twenty minute red card
40:39
Speaker 2: Global trial going aheads. It's obviously in the Automnations series,
40:43
Speaker 2: but one of the candidates, Benazzi France, was saying that
40:47
Speaker 2: he doesn't it's on his mandate that he doesn't agree
40:49
Speaker 2: with it. Where do you think that is at in
40:51
Speaker 2: terms of a world rugby context and will this twenty
40:54
Speaker 2: minute red card, which New Zealand Rugby has been quite
40:56
Speaker 2: at the forefront of go ahead in terms of a
40:59
Speaker 2: global trial.
41:00
Speaker 8: Well, I we'd like to think.
41:01
Speaker 7: So it's I mean, it's really positive development that we're
41:04
Speaker 7: playing the trial over the next few weeks. Six nations
41:09
Speaker 7: have signed that off. It seems clear that you know,
41:13
Speaker 7: every nation apart from France are supportive of it, even
41:18
Speaker 7: though you know Ireland sort of signaled some concern with
41:21
Speaker 7: the previosideration of the of the proposal. The current proposal
41:25
Speaker 7: lands well with them as well. So, look, this is
41:30
Speaker 7: a proposal that's been play now for over five years.
41:36
Speaker 7: It's been through an awful lot of competitions and trials
41:39
Speaker 7: and research and been fed into different forums, and we
41:42
Speaker 7: think it's just a common sense next step for the
41:46
Speaker 7: game that balances all the right things in terms of
41:48
Speaker 7: player welfare demands which are critically important, as well as
41:52
Speaker 7: balancing the needs of the fans to have a contest
41:54
Speaker 7: which is not lost because of being ruined by a
42:00
Speaker 7: red card, and the game has changed so much in
42:03
Speaker 7: terms of the way red card tore rewarded.
42:05
Speaker 2: Now.
42:06
Speaker 7: Historically they were about it deliberate sort of foul play.
42:10
Speaker 7: Now they obviously can be issued for incidents which are
42:15
Speaker 7: more accidental by nature at times and very subjective at
42:19
Speaker 7: times as well, and their incident rate has increased. So,
42:23
Speaker 7: you know, it just makes perfect sense for us because
42:25
Speaker 7: of the combination of the fan experience, looking after teams
42:28
Speaker 7: interests and play welfare that this has continue to be
42:32
Speaker 7: worked upon and we're only you know, when you think back,
42:34
Speaker 7: we're the only probably contact sport in the world where
42:36
Speaker 7: we create this sort of mismatch in our in our sport,
42:39
Speaker 7: and when you're talking about premium events around things like
42:42
Speaker 7: World Cups, Rugby Championships, Six Nations Nations Cup in the future,
42:46
Speaker 7: we think we've got to move with the times.
42:48
Speaker 2: Do you think there's a bit of confusion around it,
42:50
Speaker 2: that the fact that a full red card in theory
42:53
Speaker 2: does still exist for fuggish behavior, and maybe that there's
42:58
Speaker 2: a bit of confusion from some of those countries that
42:59
Speaker 2: oppose it, that you can replace a player they don't
43:02
Speaker 2: come back on after twenty minutes, maybe.
43:03
Speaker 6: An orange card or some sort of brand.
43:05
Speaker 2: From a branding perspective, it maybe needs to be sort
43:07
Speaker 2: of slightly to eat possibly.
43:10
Speaker 8: I mean, you raise a fair question.
43:12
Speaker 7: I mean, we've been really concerned that some countries who
43:16
Speaker 7: have registered their concern with it and not agreed with
43:21
Speaker 7: it haven't fully understood the proposal in previous forums. So
43:25
Speaker 7: we're certainly hoping that that's not the case when people
43:27
Speaker 7: come to vote on this. But you're right that safeguard
43:31
Speaker 7: around deliberate foul play that we hardly ever see, you know,
43:35
Speaker 7: in the game at all nowadays, is still covered for.
43:39
Speaker 7: And then, as we say, the more newer development of
43:43
Speaker 7: incidents around possibly things that are more accidental by nature
43:47
Speaker 7: can be covered with more fairly with a twenty minute situation.
43:51
Speaker 7: So look, yes, I think it's been an issue for
43:54
Speaker 7: us that it hasn't been well understood or well researched
43:56
Speaker 7: enough by others. But I think hopefully we're getting to
43:58
Speaker 7: a situation now where by the vast majority of countries
44:01
Speaker 7: are supportive.
44:02
Speaker 2: The South African Tours story is ticked along throughout the
44:06
Speaker 2: course of maybe about a year or so. Now it's
44:09
Speaker 2: you know, when the deal Blacks were there, it sounded
44:11
Speaker 2: like it was not far away from being announced. Still
44:13
Speaker 2: on track for this to go ahead in twenty twenty six.
44:17
Speaker 7: Yeah, Look, we are making good progress as it relates
44:20
Speaker 7: to all the emerging competitions for the twenty twenty six
44:27
Speaker 7: media rite cycle twenty twenty six to twenty thirty Nations Cup.
44:31
Speaker 7: We're having meetings through this next few weeks and we've
44:34
Speaker 7: got meetings on those with all of the major nations
44:39
Speaker 7: attending in Dublin a few weeks time around the same
44:41
Speaker 7: time as the as the elections, and absolutely the South
44:47
Speaker 7: Africa All Blacks tours are still on track, so you.
44:50
Speaker 8: Know, we're trying to where we can.
44:53
Speaker 7: I think we'll finalize these in the next and the
44:55
Speaker 7: next few weeks. It would be great to be out
44:57
Speaker 7: in the market with them soon after.
44:58
Speaker 8: So look at these things.
45:00
Speaker 7: As I've said several times this year, they just take
45:01
Speaker 7: a bit of time. That some of them represent significant
45:03
Speaker 7: changes to calendars and there's just a few things we
45:06
Speaker 7: need to make sure we get right before signed them off.
45:09
Speaker 2: Anyways, with the Nation's Championship and these tour concepts, it's
45:12
Speaker 2: one of the biggest changes really since maybe Argentina came
45:15
Speaker 2: into RAGA Championship, but if you go back probably to
45:17
Speaker 2: the professional era when the Try Nations came in.
45:20
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's right. You know, when you look ahead for
45:25
Speaker 7: this next cycle from twenty twenty six, it's probably one
45:28
Speaker 7: of the most exciting five year periods of the game
45:31
Speaker 7: as it rates to fans in New Zealand, and they
45:34
Speaker 7: are major changes, you know.
45:36
Speaker 8: I haven't.
45:38
Speaker 7: The feedback largely around the South Africa All Blacks model
45:41
Speaker 7: seems really positive.
45:42
Speaker 8: We've got two Lines tours.
45:43
Speaker 7: I met with the Lines this morning here in London
45:47
Speaker 7: and the women's and mens to both huge amount of
45:50
Speaker 7: excitement building the air and we'll continue we'll probably pick
45:53
Speaker 7: up speed on the work programs around the twenty twenty
45:56
Speaker 7: nine Men's tour.
45:58
Speaker 8: In the early part of next year.
45:59
Speaker 7: We've got the Global Club Competition which is being worked
46:02
Speaker 7: on as well Nations Cup. As you say, so, look,
46:07
Speaker 7: I just think it's remarkable time for fans in New
46:10
Speaker 7: Zealer to get excited about world class rugby coming into.
46:13
Speaker 8: Our shores in the next sort of while.
46:15
Speaker 7: And yeah, we do need to make sure we get
46:17
Speaker 7: all of the preparation for that being on if we can.
46:19
Speaker 2: Black fernds this year, but up but down. We're in
46:23
Speaker 2: London at the moment, which is going to be the
46:25
Speaker 2: side of the World Cup final in just under a
46:28
Speaker 2: year's time. I guess where do you see the black
46:30
Speaker 2: ferns and where they're at? After a couple of losses
46:33
Speaker 2: to England who are in an imperious form at the
46:34
Speaker 2: moment and Ireland was a surprise loss, where do you
46:37
Speaker 2: see there out of year at from the World Cup?
46:39
Speaker 8: Well, look, I think I was here back in September.
46:44
Speaker 7: I think it was when we played England at Twickenham,
46:47
Speaker 7: and I think people would all recognize we made some
46:51
Speaker 7: really strong progress leading into that game and played really
46:54
Speaker 7: well for long periods, so the direction of travel.
46:57
Speaker 8: Then we were really positive about.
46:59
Speaker 7: Clearly the Irish game was a bit of a setback
47:01
Speaker 7: and Ellen and the team have sort of registered their
47:03
Speaker 7: disappointment with that, and then we saw them come back
47:06
Speaker 7: and I thought played really well against France again. So
47:09
Speaker 7: obviously we'd all like to see more consistency as and
47:15
Speaker 7: I think we're always disappointed when in any team in
47:18
Speaker 7: black losers, but I think overall probably take stock of things,
47:22
Speaker 7: get everyrun home and go through a really good thorough
47:24
Speaker 7: review and find out how we can wrap all the
47:26
Speaker 7: possible support around the team leading into Super Rugby opicking
47:30
Speaker 7: next year. We've got you know, a good amount of
47:36
Speaker 7: Test matches leading into the World Cup and just set
47:39
Speaker 7: the team up for all the possible success we can with,
47:42
Speaker 7: you know, if we need more resourcing or if we
47:44
Speaker 7: need more competitions or fixtures, sorry, then that'll be the
47:48
Speaker 7: things we sort of decide at the end of the year.
47:49
Speaker 2: Probably I haven't touched on the All Blacks, but a
47:51
Speaker 2: big obviously three weeks coming up or four weeks coming
47:54
Speaker 2: up in Europe for the side, I guess on the
47:57
Speaker 2: back of that Japan results and Scott Robertson's first year,
48:00
Speaker 2: your assessment of sort of where the All Blacks sit
48:02
Speaker 2: on the cusp of these big tests coming up.
48:06
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean overall we're we're reasonably positive. We think
48:10
Speaker 7: the direction of travel overall has been clear for people
48:14
Speaker 7: to see that, you know, always disappointing to lose, and
48:17
Speaker 7: again Scott and the team clearly, you know, felt frustrating
48:21
Speaker 7: those losses earlier in the in the in the campaign,
48:25
Speaker 7: in the test season, but they really fine margins around
48:28
Speaker 7: the international game, and we saw that especially in South Africa.
48:32
Speaker 7: Exciting to see the emergence of such great young talent
48:36
Speaker 7: coming through and seeing opportunities provided for some of those players.
48:40
Speaker 7: I think a large season like this, even though it's
48:42
Speaker 7: hugely challenging, has provided that basis for a new group
48:46
Speaker 7: to come together and develop some cohesion on and off
48:48
Speaker 7: the field, and I think we just got to remember
48:51
Speaker 7: that not only is it a new group on and
48:52
Speaker 7: off the field, this is probably one of the toughest
48:54
Speaker 7: schedules we've had in many years with the way the
48:57
Speaker 7: calendar has worked out. So overall, you know, we're pretty positive.
49:01
Speaker 7: Well again, there'll be quite an extensive review at the
49:04
Speaker 7: end of the year having a look at all the
49:06
Speaker 7: things and where we can developing the growth in the environment,
49:10
Speaker 7: but as we sit here right now, we're reasonably positive.
49:13
Speaker 6: It's finished positive as well.
49:14
Speaker 2: Community rugby figures understand up, which is it must be
49:19
Speaker 2: incredibly welcoming for New Zealand rugby because some of those
49:23
Speaker 2: has been challenging areas, some of those key demographics, so
49:25
Speaker 2: to get them reversed or going the right direction must
49:27
Speaker 2: be pretty pleasing.
49:29
Speaker 8: Yeah, it is. And then it's a second year in
49:30
Speaker 8: a row. We've had.
49:33
Speaker 7: A good uplift in community numbers some of those key markers,
49:37
Speaker 7: you know, teenage boys especially is often quite a strong
49:41
Speaker 7: mark for how the community game's going.
49:42
Speaker 8: So to have two years.
49:44
Speaker 7: In a row with LYFT in those areas is really positive.
49:47
Speaker 8: Great year for women and girls. We've seen the continued building.
49:50
Speaker 7: Off Rugby World Cup a couple of years ago, which
49:52
Speaker 7: has been fantastic, and even in senior men's club rugby
49:57
Speaker 7: seeing growth as well. So look, we're not sitting on
49:59
Speaker 7: our laurels at all here. We know, you know, there's
50:02
Speaker 7: always work to be done in this area, but overall
50:06
Speaker 7: we know we're being really progressive and challenging status quo
50:09
Speaker 7: around formats, laws, different trials and we'll continue to do that.
50:14
Speaker 7: Steve Lancaster and his team have done some great work
50:17
Speaker 7: in this area and I think we're developing some real
50:20
Speaker 7: momentum in this space. So look, we've got you know,
50:23
Speaker 7: more resourcing as we've seen going into that space than
50:25
Speaker 7: we have historically and we think it's starting to pay
50:27
Speaker 7: dividends at the moment.
50:28
Speaker 2: Mark Robinson, never a quiet time in rugby, is it.
50:30
Speaker 2: Thank you very much for joining us in London and
50:33
Speaker 2: we're shing the best of luck navigating all those meetings
50:35
Speaker 2: over the next few weeks.
50:36
Speaker 8: Great to see Ali, Thanks very much, Mark.
50:38
Speaker 2: Robinson, the on Rugby, Jeryfory appreciative of his time as
50:43
Speaker 2: always on the podcast, and Liam, that will about do
50:45
Speaker 2: us big tests this weekend.
50:48
Speaker 3: A prediction before we wrap up, before we wrap.
50:50
Speaker 4: Up, Yes, big challenge Elliott at Twickenham.
50:54
Speaker 5: I think what was it last time.
50:56
Speaker 4: There the All Blacks collapsed to draw at the back
51:00
Speaker 4: end of the twenty twenty two season. I'm going to
51:04
Speaker 4: say the All Blacks win this weekend in a very
51:07
Speaker 4: tight fixture, maybe by three five points, and I think
51:13
Speaker 4: it would be a bit of a dark sign if
51:16
Speaker 4: they don't. Winning at Twickenham is tough, but I think
51:18
Speaker 4: England currently not where Island or France are. So if
51:25
Speaker 4: they don't win this weekend it's real back to the
51:27
Speaker 4: world territory for Scott Robinson. So the All Blacks to
51:30
Speaker 4: win in a very tight contest.
51:32
Speaker 3: All right, So the All Blacks by five.
51:34
Speaker 2: Thank you Liam, as always, look forward to catching up
51:37
Speaker 2: next week from Dublin and checking it again on the podcast.
51:41
Speaker 5: Cheers mate, go well, that.
51:43
Speaker 8: Has been right.
51:44
Speaker 2: We direct with four Cliff Solutions, lifting you and your
51:46
Speaker 2: business to a high and level of Thanks is always
51:49
Speaker 2: for laughing bys English and we'll see you next week.
51:56
Speaker 1: For more from News Talks ed B, listen live on
51:59
Speaker 1: air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
52:02
Speaker 1: you go with our podcast on iHeartRadio