Latest / So There I Was / Royce Williams Medal of Honor: 1v7 MiG Dogfight Episode 200

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Royce Williams Medal of Honor: 1v7 MiG Dogfight Episode 200 · So There I Was

0:43
So there I was, commemorating an auspicious occasion today that actually took place yesterday.
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Hey, this is Fig. Welcome to So There I Was. Where's my co-host?
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Well, this is Styx. I'm up here in Whitefield, New Hampshire, on the road today.
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Nice. Hey, it's Baggo. Baggo. I'm at Sherry Point, North Carolina, just getting off work.
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Hi, you work a four-letter word ending in K.
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Greetings, everybody. Repeat here and welcome to episode 200.
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Count them. Two, zero, zero.
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Can you believe it? Double centuries. And wow, what a great,
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great occasion to have show 200 because while we're at 200, we are going to
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be talking about a man today who has hit one century over a third of our nation's lifetime.
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This man has been drawing breath and doing heroic acts.
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And after 73 years of delay, Captain Royce Williams, United States Navy,
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retired, finally got his due.
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Last night at the State of Union address, they pinned it on.
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And then today, it was the official ceremony. They read the citation for his Medal of Honor.
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We're going to play that for you here in just a minute. Outstanding.
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Wow, this is cool. So, Sticks, this is kind of your idea. Why don't you kick
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it off with some of where we wanted to go with this, please?
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Right. Well, you know, so we like to start off a lot of our episodes with, so there I was.
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I'm just going to say, so there he was at 19,000 feet in a 7v1 fight in his
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F9F Panther against seven MiG-15s.
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And then yada, yada, yada, he gets the Medal of Honor. How about that?
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Yeah, Yada Yada, 73 years of Yada's.
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Exactly. You can't, and we, of course, Yada Yada'd out the best part,
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which was the actual fight.
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So I think one of the important things for us to recognize is that the Medal
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of Honor is the highest award that can be given to any of our military service members.
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Quick look on that also finds it's only been awarded 107 times for aviation and aviation type.
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Sorties or events. And, you know, this also puts him in the league with Pappy
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Boynton and also puts him in there with Billy Mitchell, who put your hair down the midway.
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Some of the most distinguished, you know, aviators in history,
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you know, and he's earned it.
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You know, I think his story is absolutely fantastic but
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you know he's uh it's you know this was sort of a brainchild of like let's go
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back and revisit a little bit of his episode talk about his story and bring
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that back to the forefront because it's well deserved for sure yes it is yeah
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yes he was about to turn 99 when we interviewed him on episode 45.
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Just a little while ago yeah on april 4th
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of this year 2026 he's going to be 101 so and
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still lucid as as ever i mean it's
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so cool you know when i went back and re-listened to that episode it
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was amazing his uh recall of certain
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events surrounding that and what i also think
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is important to note is that this interaction that
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he had with these seven migs is considered the you
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know perhaps the greatest and most significant uh you
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know naval aviation event you know
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and it's been buried into the history books and uh buried
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literally buried literally buried yeah you
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know so i think it's really cool that we were able to
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you know to bring this to the forefront especially all
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the way back in episode 34 and then we come back around full
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circle now sitting at episode 200 and he
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just gets awarded the medal of honor i just think it's
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absolutely outstanding yeah quickly it
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was episode 45 episode 45 you're correct
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so there i was at us slash episode slash 45 what
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a blessing it is that he got it
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awarded and it wasn't posthumously because
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my fear was when we talked about this way back
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in episode 45 yeah and we knew
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that it was sitting in it was sitting at the senate level right to be approved.
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That they you know this was not a high priority item for some reason it was
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going to drag on to lord knows when and then the next thing you know somebody's
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typing and it's really loud and it would have been.
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Not a factor anymore he's actually now the oldest recipient ever of the medal of honor,
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that's even more badass that is
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awesome nice what do
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you remember from show 45 bago anything anything stick
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out oh yeah well six started it he mentioned it was 1v7 however
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if we recall it started out as a
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4v7 and that's right we went
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downhill from there yeah but yeah i
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think the most amazing thing of it all from the start of it was that
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he told us he had almost 100
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hours in the seat during his very first ever dogfight 1v7 and then flying an
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underpowered under gunned he was just a way outmatched more airplane the mig-15
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was much more airplane way out right Right.
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And it's actually, and I've even, go ahead, brother. Go ahead.
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No, I've even got a, so let me pull this up real quick.
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So I've got a, like a quick slide here that actually pulls up a comparison between
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the two, but the whole idea of the, of the MiG-15 was to take on the straight
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wing fighters and to take advantage of that.
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And of course, what is, what does he happen to find himself in?
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You know, a total straight wing fighter.
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And, you know, It certainly is more maneuverable, has a better thrust to weight ratio.
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But the one advantage that he had was he had more, there was more firepower.
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He had more guns to work with, more bullets to send down range.
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That was really about his only advantage and sheer determination to see it through.
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So to me, that says a lot.
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And it looked like through the years that the F9F has had a varied or different thrust ratio.
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And on average, it looks like it's been around 0.3 is about the average,
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whereas the MiG-15 was sitting at 0.58.
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Which is a big difference. It's a big difference. And you had to spend every
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single last bullet to make it out of there, too.
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Yeah, I did. Yeah. Yep. And what... Go ahead.
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No, I don't want to interrupt you. No, I was just going to say that in that
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whole conflict, when you go back and you look at it, it lasted 35 minutes.
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Which is... And granted, I have zero dogfight time.
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But from what I understand, that's an eternity.
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It is, in fact, actually the longest dogfight in U.S. naval history.
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Yeah. You know, having never done it for real, but done it in training,
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I don't know, thousands of times, that is a literal eternity.
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You know, if you... 30s last an hour sometimes, you know, in a 35-minute fight.
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I don't know. I think a long engagement for us might have been four or five minutes.
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That was super long. Yeah, that was gone with the win for crying out loud.
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I mean, normally those things are over within a minute and a half or even less.
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In a turning fight, which they were in. He was in a turning fight with these guys.
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That's gone with the win times two, maybe three. It's insane.
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Yeah. Well, why don't we take about a minute and just shy of two minutes here,
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and I will play the citation that they read to honor him.
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And I will send out a thanks to Scotty Southard, go Marine, for sending me the
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link to get a hold of this citation.
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So it's about a minute 45 and the official citation of his Medal of Honor.
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The President of the United States, in the name of Congress,
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takes pleasure in awarding the Medal of Honor to Lieutenant E.
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Royce Williams for service as set forth in the following.
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For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and
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beyond the call of duty on 18 November 1952,
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while leading a division of three jet fighters attached to Fighter Squadron
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781 VF-781 and embarked on USS Ariskany.
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While flying a combat patrol mission over the northeastern coastal waters of
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enemy-held North Korea,
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Lieutenant Williams demonstrated extraordinary heroism by intercepting a superior
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force of attacking enemy MiG-15 fighters in order to protect the ships of Task Force 77.
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After thwarting the enemy's initial attack, he maneuvered his aircraft to make
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two firing passes on one MiG, which then spiraled into the sea.
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He inflicted heavy damage to
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a second MiG-15, which started smoking badly and retired from the fight.
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When his own aircraft was severely damaged by a direct hit from one of the remaining
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enemy MiG-15s, Lieutenant Williams
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evaded further enemy attack while continuing to direct the dogfight.
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He eventually found cover in a cloud bank, broke off the engagement,
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and miraculously landed his nearly uncontrollable aircraft on the USS Oriskany.
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His exceptional airmanship, coupled with his complete disregard for his own personal safety,
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resulted in the destruction of three enemy MiG-15s and severe damage to a fourth,
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and undoubtedly saved the lives of hundreds of Task Force 77 sailors.
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By his undaunted courage, bold initiative, and total devotion to duty,
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Lieutenant Williams reflected great credit upon himself and upheld the highest
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traditions of the United States Naval Service.
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Boom. And I got to say, that citation, it is badass, but that citation kind of underplays it.
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He talked about the book, Red Devils over the Yalu, and they confirmed kills.
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This dude didn't retire from the fight. He was forcefully retired.
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So correct me if I'm wrong, but it was the intelligence ship track those seven
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MIGs when they launch from the Russian base.
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And can you guys hear me? Okay. Gotcha. Yes. Yep. Yep. All right.
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And then seven launched, but only six came back.
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Yes. I'm sorry. Seven launched, but only one came back.
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Yeah. So, you know, he might have got, you know, he might have got six.
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If he nicked their fuel tank and they ran out of gas before they got back to
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home plate, you know, that's, in my book, that's a kill.
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Yeah, a kill's a kill. We know those three he downed right then and there.
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One ejected, trying to make it back home, and the other two.
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Yeah, and they gave credit to that kill, to the Dash 2 in the fight,
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who went away and came back, which was kind of bad. Chased him.
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Yeah, interesting, right? And again, they talk about getting back aboard,
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but, you know, dude was doing 175 knots over there.
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Well, and they left off the part that when he came out of the bottom of the
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clouds in the middle of the task force, they opened up on him because they thought he was the end.
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They were shooting at him. It was a welcome home party. That's all. Some fireworks for him.
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Fireworks. Welcome to your back.
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Congratulations for making it back to the boat. Now we're going to try and shake it out. Right.
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Dear God, make it stop. And just for our listeners that aren't aware of this
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story, it was February in the North China Sea. I don't remember, but just as cold.
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It was November? Yeah, November 52nd. Yeah, it was cold. It was cold. It was sleeting.
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And the water temperature was such that, yeah, he would not have survived in
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the water had he decided to jump out.
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So he knew the only way forward was to try to get aboard the ship.
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Yeah, you mentioned the intelligence config.
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The team on the USS Helena, which is where they got the intercepted Soviet communications
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from, it was actually the very first unit of the NSA,
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Oh, a little side note there. How about that? Oh, no kidding.
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That looks like a battle ship. They're codenamed, codenamed Canoe was their
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codename while they were there.
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Oh, nice. Just a canoe out in the water.
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Thinking of NSA. I have a little fun. I named my phone NSA surveillance,
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so when people are looking around for Wi-Fi, if I'm near.
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Yep. Look at you. But, yeah, just having some fun at other people's paranoia at expense.
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So, we've got another special treat.
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I managed to have a chat with Captain Williams on Saturday last.
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And he agreed to come on with us, and he's also agreed to come back once he
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got back from Washington, D.C.
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This was the eve of him getting on an airplane and flying to Washington, D.C.
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I did not realize he was going to be a guest at the State of the Union address,
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although the timing worked out. I should have known that.
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Yeah, I had no clue. I'm sure he offered that up in the phone conversation, right? Yeah.
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Exactly. Yeah. So this is just shy of 10 minutes, a quick chat with Captain
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Williams. Let's go ahead and play that.
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First of all, thank you so much for joining us today.
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What I'd like to do first off is say thank you, Captain Williams,
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for giving us a few minutes of your time.
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We're featuring your story this week and our listeners hold you in enormous
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respect from the show you joined us on almost three years ago now.
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Not only for that day in the North Pacific, but for the leader you were across a full career.
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So I'd love to keep this tight and brief as you get ready to fly to Washington, D.C.
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Tomorrow and talk about how the day started, what leadership you live by and
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what you'd like to pass along now.
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So can you take me to the moment that day in 1952, November of 52,
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when you realized this wasn't going to be a quick look and a turn back or that
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wasn't just another sighting of enemy planes passing by, that it was going to be a real fight?
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Can you tell me what you saw or heard or felt that when you realized,
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oh, this is going to be a fight, not a flyby?
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Well, things developed. But I knew there were enemy airplanes high above me
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and going back north, and I assumed to land.
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They broke into two groups and dove out of the contrail level,
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and that was my assumption about to land.
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But I was to turn around and establish a barricade between the last lady and the task force.
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And in that turn, here comes the four that dove off to the right,
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heading right at me at my 10 o'clock position, all shooting.
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Of course, this was a most unexpected surprise.
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I don't know, just intuition or something broke in.
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I had already prepared my airplane to fight with the guns ready,
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and I turned immediately and ended up on the tail end airplane and shot him down.
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Nothing planned. All reaction. Nothing getting me terribly excited or anything.
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I was on automatic, I guess, and calm about the whole thing.
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Nice. So you didn't get nervous until after the fight was over then?
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Or did you get nervous at all?
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Not really. I think a little adrenaline kicked in after I was back on the ship
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and out of fire there, back to my room.
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Sure. Oh, I can only begin to imagine.
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Well, I really can't. I've never been even close to what you faced that day.
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So, your wingman followed the first guy down that you shot.
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The question I forgot to ask the first time when we chatted a few years ago
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was, did he go back and land or did he disappear forever? Was he gone?
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My wingman? Yes, sir. I think he remained in the area, in the clear sky,
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someplace down low around 8,000 feet or something.
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Overall, this action was at 26,000 feet. Right, okay. So you never saw him again for that fight?
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I saw him briefly when I notified him that I was hit, proceeding back and he
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came on up and was behind the,
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MiG that was shooting at me but he never fired a shot.
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I don't think he turned his master armament switch on.
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Frustrating. A little help here would be nice. Oh, man.
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Well, more than that. So you're headed off tomorrow to receive the Medal of Honor.
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And we're so humbled to be even in your presence on the phone here.
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So congratulations on that. I'd like to ask more than about that fight.
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Looking back across your career, what would you say is the one experience that
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most shaped how you led other sailors and Marines over the years.
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And what were your two or three non-negotiables that as a leader,
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your people always knew you'd enforce and hold the, what standards would you hold them to every time?
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Oh, my. What a complicated question. Good story.
19:14
Wow. I don't think I can unscramble all that.
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From my youth, I was patriotic. I wanted to be a naval aviator.
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The closest I worked at it, I just was scouting. I was the Eagle Scout.
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I don't know, a leader, a busy in all the athletics presented in our school, but sort of a leader.
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It just came natural. Okay. Well, maybe let me ask it this way then.
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So you didn't just fly, but you shaped other people around you as a leader.
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So what would you think would be the most important lesson that you would,
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or advice you would give to a young lieutenant today about judgment under pressure
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or how to be aggressive and smart and how to take care of the people around them.
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Do you have any advice for a new lieutenant coming into aviation today?
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I think you're shaped a lot as you grow up.
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I had, I think, high principles. When I went into the Navy, I went in with a
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purpose to do my best to perform.
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I didn't mess around. I stuck to duty and I tried to turn out a good performance.
20:31
Nice. And I think that was probably the best was just demonstrations, leadership.
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So lead by example? Yeah.
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Yeah. Yeah. Who would you say was the most formative person in your life then
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that helped grow that sense in you? Was it your parents or a scout leader or somebody?
20:52
All my parents. Okay. Definitely. My dad was a World War I vet, very principal.
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There was no drinking, heavy partying.
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Church was a major aspect.
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Okay. I did a lot in Sunday school. As such, I even had conversations with some
21:16
of my classmates about religion.
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Okay. Nice. So let me ask briefly then, what did your dad do in World War I?
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He was a machine gunner. Okay. So he was in the thick of it.
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Oh, he was in every battle Americans fought, but he was in the thick of it.
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Well, it's wonderful. Wonderful he came back, and thanks for his service as well.
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I mean, the carnage in that war is just breathtaking and overwhelming.
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Well, let me ask this then. You're heading tomorrow to Washington,
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D.C. to receive the Medal of Honor.
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Can you tell me who it is you'd be thinking about as that's pinned on and what
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you hope this moment says about service to the country?
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Service to the country is independent of the Medal of Honor.
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It just happened rarely in circumstances.
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The country, this country, we all, as individuals, citizens,
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a whole lot. It is the provider, education, opportunity, and safety to that.
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It shouldn't become free. Somebody's got to sacrifice for it,
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and we should be happy for that.
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Oh, indeed. I couldn't say it better myself. It's part of the eternal vigilance
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that I think it was Jefferson spoke about.
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Well, sir, I don't want to take any more of your time. We definitely want to
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invite you back after you get back from Washington, D.C.
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And talk more just about aviation, about flying and fighting,
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because we know you fought both in Korea and Vietnam.
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And we'd love to hear more about all of that. So I'd just like to close by saying.
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In World War II, I didn't get in combat, but I was in about as long as anybody.
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But I went in at the very beginning, I think, February of 42.
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Okay. Right. Right. You enlisted in the Army, as I recall, then.
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Yes. Yeah, I started in the Army. Right. Oh, fantastic.
23:16
Indeed, that's true. You're a World War II vet as well. So, wow.
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Humble. And I think, I believe, you're our only World War II vet ever on the
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show. We've had a couple of Korean War vets and several Vietnam War vets.
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So, thank you. Yeah, because, if I may mention, you're a couple months away
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from your 101st birthday.
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That's true. For April. Wow.
23:36
Well, congratulations on that. And, Captain, congratulations on this long, long overdue honor.
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Thank you for what you did and for the example of leadership and character that
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you've set for generations. If people only have the wisdom to look to you for
23:52
the example, this country will continue
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to be a better place and a shining example for the world to follow.
23:57
Thank you. Well, I hope that's true. I appreciate your saying so,
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I cannot convey to you how much we are humbled just by your mere presence over
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the airwaves to chat with us.
24:08
What a privilege it was to chat with that gent. An Eagle Scout, no less. Of course.
24:15
Right? Yeah. How could he not be? Yeah. Wow.
24:20
You know, what's interesting, and I also sort of throw back to Chemo on something
24:26
that he had talked about where he had referenced, you know, Richter von,
24:32
I'm trying to remember his,
24:33
anyways, the, you know, the quote about, it's not the, the quality of the box
24:39
matters little. Von Richthofen.
24:41
Yes, Manfred von Richthofen, there we go. Quality of the box matters little,
24:45
success depends upon the man who sits in it.
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And, you know, I think nothing could be more reflective of that and proving
24:54
of that than than this whole event right here.
24:57
I mean, he was outgunned, outmanned and could have been outmaneuvered.
25:01
But I think through perseverance and diligence, you know, came through on the other side.
25:11
And that was his second sortie of the day, if you recall. Yeah, that was.
25:16
The other day, he went north and bombed bridges on the Yalu River.
25:21
That's why the task force was so far north. That's why the Soviets came to get them.
25:29
I think you're right. Yep. Now, something I noticed about that picture or,
25:35
you know, the footage of him actually, you know, when they were putting it on
25:39
him at the ceremony last night. Two sets of wings.
25:42
He had NFO wings at the bottom. Yeah. And I don't know from his history when
25:48
that took place. Do you guys recall?
25:51
So clearly he was a pilot first because in the earlier shots you see only the aviator wings,
25:59
but he does have nfo wings i can only assume it was at a later time that he
26:05
picked up that call somehow during you know one of his command tours or something
26:09
because remember he was an instructor at,
26:11
air force fighter weapons yeah yeah among other things so you know i've never
26:17
seen any i've seen it go the other way i've seen someone be an nfo first and
26:20
then go right aviator right.
26:24
Well, you know what sticks out to me the most about that initial interview we had with him?
26:29
I can't believe it was almost three years ago, but yeah, almost three years ago it was.
26:34
How after we talked about the dogfight in Korea, how he just nonchalantly later
26:43
talked about the F-4 on fire story.
26:47
And actually bringing the airplane back with
26:50
both engines on fire after the nfo his
26:53
rio backseater ejected and they had a completely intact f4 now and it figured
27:01
out why they were losing f4s yeah i mean at one point he said he was in burner
27:07
to keep the thing flying and he brought it back,
27:11
what and that was he talked he talked like that like it was a Tuesday he called it interesting exactly,
27:20
yeah it was a little event you know never mind his backseater bailed out and
27:28
he was on fire when he came back yeah.
27:32
And then his favorite airplane, he had two.
27:35
Yeah. Yeah. It was the Phantom for fighting and the A4 for fun. For fun. Wow.
27:44
My rifle's for fighting. My gun is for fun. Oh. What a man. I meant to. And so.
27:51
He's our second. So we've had two World War II.
27:54
That's right. Rosie. Rosie. Rosie, the. Our nose gunner. Our nose gunner. Yeah.
28:01
And I didn't realize this from the first interview, that he was a World War
28:05
II veteran. I did not remember that until today.
28:10
I heard it, and I had forgotten it, because he had enlisted in the Army,
28:14
in the Army Air Corps and all that, but he wanted to go into the NAVCAD program,
28:19
and that's how he got Navy.
28:21
Yeah, I'll tell you what, those World War II vets, they really earned the moniker,
28:26
the Greatest Generation. Do you remember episode 95 with Rosie,
28:32
what the title of that show was?
28:38
I could hear the shrapnel hitting the sides of the plane yeah yep that's right
28:41
that is freaking insane because i think the question was did did you hear the
28:46
flack could you hear the flat no but i could hear the shrapnel hit.
28:53
But he at least had plenty of plexiglass between him and the oh yeah liquid
28:58
hot metal that was in this much in this much aluminum right right Probably an
29:05
eighth of an inch of aluminum. Yeah.
29:07
Oh, man. Crazy stuff. These men. These men.
29:11
Just living American history. That's who those gentlemen are at this point.
29:16
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Dude's got some cool stuff there. I'm commissioning him for a squadron patch for my basement bar.
32:06
Nice. Yeah. He doesn't turn out bad ass. Thanks, Derek.
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Indeed.
32:15
Well, I, wow. I'm so grateful that the man received this honor.
32:22
Yeah. Long time coming. Humeless, humously.
32:27
Yeah. I think it's so much more poignant, you know, given that he's here to
32:33
be able to speak to it and appreciate it.
32:36
And the fact that, you know, he's so, honestly, he is so humble about it.
32:42
You know, and it's and I think any any time you've ever talked to anybody who's
32:47
been awarded the Medal of Honor, you know, that is a common thread that that
32:51
runs through all of them.
32:53
You know, it's not about them and they don't even want to accept it half the time.
32:56
They, you know, they almost say, well, I'll accept it, but I'm accepting it
33:01
on behalf of everybody who was part of that. And that's spot on.
33:05
And I think he's you know, he embodies that, you know, it's never mind the fact
33:10
that it's just an astounding accomplishment.
33:12
Of a aviation and and granted i've never been in a dog fight but to you know
33:17
do all these as a face shot i think is also mind-boggling you know especially
33:23
since it was lead it wasn't even like like a sparrow missile yeah that's the
33:28
first rule you always shoot head-to-head right,
33:31
no yeah go with that yeah and that yeah that's something that's saying something,
33:39
you know and only 100 hours in the aircraft on top of that i mean how do you
33:44
first you quantify that type of uh caliber of aviator you know first his first dogfight.
33:52
So and that he's lucid enough
33:55
to appreciate it too that's the other thing not only is he still alive but he's
34:00
lucid he understands what it means oh my gosh you know the dude is sharp he's
34:05
still sharp i'm looking forward to having him back just to chat airplanes yeah
34:10
yeah i mean we got his like essentially his whole career left to go,
34:15
right yeah we just covered the first there might be a story or two that we missed.
34:24
Yeah well how it just just
34:27
the f4 on fire story just kind of came
34:30
out it was like i think that just popped into a said how many
34:32
more are still in there that's what i want right we got to get those out yep
34:36
yep but the other thing that i'll throw out there in
34:39
and this will be just as a as a salute
34:42
to you and to repeat and fig who started this whole
34:45
thing you know but we've managed and
34:48
you guys have managed to to document record and bring
34:51
to the forefront some amazing stories of naval
34:54
aviation and aviation in general and so
34:57
i know you know somebody who's been a listener and now
35:01
part of the team i appreciate it and and the
35:04
fact that we've been able to bring this story feature
35:07
it even had it before you know get recognized as a as a medal of honor story
35:13
or story you know worthy of that i i think says a lot and so my my hat goes
35:18
off to both you you two knuckleheads for for pulling this off 200 200 episodes of fantastic stories.
35:27
Appreciate it yes well and you
35:31
know we're a team gents and bingo you know
35:34
you you guys you guys have made this
35:37
so easy and uh you know repeat you guys
35:40
you are the you know i i show up and just dock yeah but you got the gift of
35:46
gab so we'll we'll give you that you know and there's you're all the king of
35:49
colisans so we'll slide yeah end of that yeah so we got to change that We got
35:55
to get you working behind the scenes, Vic.
35:57
Speaking of behind the scenes, though, I have reached out to one person who
36:02
knows people who know him, but if anybody listening happens to know, CWO5, Eric Slover.
36:10
He was also awarded the Blue Max last night, and we would love to have a chat with that gent.
36:16
If he would be honored to join us, we would be humbly honored to have him join us.
36:23
And one other thing I will throw out, so like I said, I think we're going to
36:27
work on trying to get Captain Williams back on board for one more episode at least.
36:31
But if anybody wanted to then record on their own a brief message for him,
36:37
we'll be more than willing to, if you can make it as good a quality as possible,
36:41
we can record that and include it in that podcast.
36:45
That'd be a great idea, just if nothing else, to send to him.
36:49
So that'd be a lot of fun. Yeah, absolutely. So if anybody wants to pass that
36:52
along to us, we're more than happy to share that with him.
36:55
And it's something that I think is well-earned. I think it'd be great if we
36:59
could get, you know, heater and nasty and maybe even mooch to sort of pass along, you know, a message.
37:08
I know what you're saying. Let's don't try and obligate them. Yeah, no.
37:12
Okay. You know, but something to that effect, you know, I think it'd be great.
37:16
We'll reach out to some folks and see what we can come up with. But, yeah. Yeah.
37:20
I don't know. I think it's probably time we land the airplane unless any of
37:22
you guys got any other things that need to cover before. Yeah.
37:25
I got a couple more fun facts for you guys. oh yeah
37:28
please send him so he's
37:32
the only american to have four kills in a single jet-based dogfight only one
37:39
city war and then that his dogfight was actually somehow surprisingly the only
37:46
naval dogfight over water during the korean war.
37:53
How about that? I don't know how. And then he also had 263 holes were found
38:01
in his aircraft with a one-foot gash, which is that one there.
38:09
Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Well, so the MiG was armed with a cannon as well that was
38:15
on a 33-34 millimeter cannon that I'm sure he unfortunately probably took a round or two from.
38:23
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he was flying back with no hydraulics, no electronics.
38:28
And not only that, well, actually, there were two cannons on each aircraft,
38:32
so that's 14 cannons he was up against. Yep.
38:36
When he had it all up. And they were throwing lead. They were throwing a lot of lead at him.
38:40
Yeah. And he came out unscathed, body-wise.
38:47
Yeah, physiologically. Literally, he walked away from it unscathed, unscarred, uncut.
38:53
And then to put the plane back on the deck of the carrier with no hydraulics.
38:59
And he called it a three-wire. It wasn't even a three-wire.
39:03
He had an okay underlying three-wire. Yeah.
39:06
Why would he? Yeah, right.
39:10
There you go. I hate to see the LSO who had the stones not to give him an okay
39:14
three-wire for that. All right.
39:16
Wow. Well, we owe a deep debt of gratitude to Captain Williams,
39:23
Eric Slover, and all who have served and sacrificed and put others above self.
39:28
So thank you to all our active duty, our veterans, first responders, and their families.
39:36
We're deeply in debt to them.
39:42
Anyone else? How about a big thanks to Backbeat Media. Right.
39:48
Yeah. Dave Hamilton. Dave Hamilton, right?
39:53
Give us the bandwidth to do this. The bandwidth, the know-how, and the support.
39:59
Big shout-out to Dave Hamilton and Backbeat Media. Absolutely.
40:03
And, of course, our sponsor, Derek, over at DCArtWorks.net. But he isn't the
40:09
only one who gives us support.
40:13
Several of you do who are listening. Don't tell your financial advisors that
40:17
you're cracking your wallet open and sending your hard-earned cash our way.
40:21
They're going to be, uh, they're going to be upset about that.
40:25
I don't know why it won't stay up. There it goes.
40:29
Cause we're working against each other. Yeah. So I keep trying to put it up,
40:33
but yeah. So thanks to all the folks over at there. I was that us slash Patreon.
40:38
And there's also, if you go to, so there I was that us slash donate.
40:43
You can directly donate to us through DonorBox.
40:47
And if you're giving multiple times over a course of months or years,
40:52
then we are deeply humbled by that.
40:54
And that works well. But there's also Venmo. So Venmo doesn't do a recurring
40:58
donation that we're aware of, but they do give us a larger cut.
41:02
They take much less of your money for themselves when you're trying to support us.
41:06
So if you go to sodarowas.us slash donate, we'll have Venmo also available as an option. for you.
41:14
Any other favors anyone could do for us? We need a five-star rating.
41:20
And if you can't give us a five-star, then let us know. We're trainable.
41:26
We'll make additions, edits, corrections, but we'll get it to five stars.
41:31
Give that less than five-star rating to somebody else's podcast,
41:34
for crying out loud. And then come tell us what we can do to fix it.
41:38
Yeah. Like Stick says, we're trainable. We're trainable. We also got to give
41:42
Brad Silcott, BDS Aviation Photography, a huge shout-out. Badass.
41:48
Thank you, badass. Is it giving us some killer shots, or in the Soviets' case,
41:53
not-so-killer shots, of some MiG-15s? Yeah.
41:58
It was Royce gave the killer shots this week's show.
42:03
Good dad joke. Yes, sir.
42:07
Hey, and, you know, we'd normally say thanks to Sticks and Bago for being in
42:10
the background, but they're out front today, so thank you, gentlemen.
42:14
Yeah, we're dug ourselves out of the trenches tonight. Anything for Captain Royce Williams.
42:22
Oh, yeah. Yes, sir. Oh, and then we got a merch store.
42:27
Oh, so I'm happen to be down in Florida where it's beginning to be bikini season.
42:35
As you can see, if you're watching live, there's at least six of you out there.
42:40
We do have a so there I was bikini right now.
42:44
So there I was merch.
42:47
Yeah, I think you are code in a very conspicuous location.
42:53
On time, on target. Yeah, right. Yeah.
42:57
And then lastly, I'm hearing some noise in the background.
43:02
Yes, sir. I think that is the wonderful beat of the two Air Force F-16 pilots
43:10
that make the Air Force sound good. The Dos Gringos.
43:15
They do indeed. They let us use their music. They are magnificent artists.
43:22
From what I understand, they weren't half bad F-16 pilots, and they were true patriots.
43:27
We had them on the show twice. They're just awesome.
43:30
And their music is fantastic. If you're having a bad day.
43:34
Oh, yes, and they distill spirits. Winglor spirits, W-I-N-G-L-O-R-E.
43:41
Good stuff. I had it over chemos. I can say it is outstanding.
43:48
Primo stuff. Yes, sir.
43:52
A chemo may or may not be an investor, and I'm not saying it because he's that.
43:55
I said it because it is very fine.
43:57
It is worth a try. Bingo.
44:01
Bingo. All right. Don't get your bottle to bingo.
44:05
Go get some more. Alright, time for us to beat on out of here.
44:10
Until next week everybody, thanks for joining us. Stay safe and check six.
44:50
Hold on. Beggar, what did he say? He said it's over. Now I have to face stupid reality again.
44:59
And we're out.