Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Ken Moss about his choice of Robot (4/4)

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Talks to Ken Moss about his choice of Robot (4/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  Hamster with a blunt pen knife. For doing quicker, quicker.
• 0:36
  Hello everyone and a very warm welcome to another edition of
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  Hamster With a Blunt pen Knife, the Doctor Who Commentary
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  Podcast. I'm Ken Moss.
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  And I'm Joe Fort, lucky enough to be invited onto guest yet
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  again. Thank you, Joe.
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  We've done the first three episodes.
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  We may as well round it off. My fault.
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  Polished this thing off. Can you imagine that?
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  We just did 3 commentaries and like where's the 4th?
• 1:00
  There has been an occasion where I had a technical fall.
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  No, wait, isn't. I had a technical fall and I
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  recorded three episodes, and the last episode didn't record, so
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  that commentary never saw the light of day.
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  Yeah, we've tried remounting podcasts, and we've done it when
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  we've lost something. It's very rare, but it's never
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  quite the same. That spontaneity is lost.
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  And when I started the Star Trek podcast when that first started,
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  oh God, I can't believe I'm going to tell you this because
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  you are technically very competent.
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  I I neglected to press record at all and we got through it all
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  and he said all right let's do the trailer for the next one.
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  So let's save this file and then press record again.
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  I was like, oh press record. I said I thought I'll just have
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  to talk and we had a one sided conversation.
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  Yeah, and you're right. You're absolutely right.
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  When you try again to talk about the same thing, that spontaneity
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  is completely gone. And This is why we do a lot of
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  random stuff on our podcast, because we rapidly learned that
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  actually what we do is go through picking the faves, and
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  it's far more interesting to pick one.
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  You don't know what's coming, so it could be anything.
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  And we've been really nicely surprised.
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  I love that about your podcast, so I'm you never know what's
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  coming in the next episode. Could be anything as random as
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  the Corridor People, which still sounds like a cult highlight.
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  I'm not kidding. You need to watch it just to
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  hey, it will make Simon Jizz, but it will revolutionize the
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  way that you think about 60s television is.
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  It that bad? Well, I think it's dreadful.
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  It's like somebody's heads been leaking and I have no idea how
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  that ever got made. Whoever commissioned that,
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  whoever dumped scripts on some TV producers desk and said we
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  must make this and they read it and thought yes, it's fucking
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  marvelous, we must put this on screen.
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  It's insane. Putting it on the scale.
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  So say cables. Imaginary is right at the top of
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  the scale, yeah. And then robots like sort of
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  middling right in the middle. It's the corridor, people, just
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  way down. You know how deep the drill goes
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  in Inferno? Yeah, I do that.
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  That would. They're all screaming at the
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  end. It's that level of deep for me,
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  although there is a level even deeper, which is where Curry and
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  chips belongs. I'm fairly unshockable.
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  I don't get easily offended by all the stuff that the world is
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  offended by these days, but that is just outright offensive,
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  yeah. Don't you go on this podcast and
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  ask me? About drilling deep, it's the
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  line in the Silurians where he said.
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  It looks pretty deep. I can get my arm in there.
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  My favorite line from the Silurians is where he goes with
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  it. He was found paralyzed with
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  fear. He may have seen something.
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  John Purley, ever the gift of the understatement.
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  Well, look, if we skip into Episode 4, I do have a question
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  for you the second we press play.
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  Oh well, let's see what it is. 321 play.
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  It's about engorgements. I'm listening.
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  Well, it is a fact that the robot is engorged in episode 4
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  Robot. Now, it's also a fact that
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  Doctor Who has a budget of about £45 per episode at this point
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  per episode. That's generous.
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  Well, thank you. And is this wise?
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  Because this is something the Doctor Who keeps doing?
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  Giant dinosaurs in London, you know the Scarrasan in terror of
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  the zigons Croll in the power of Croll.
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  This bloody, lumbering tin suit in this Michael Kilgarreth, an
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  attack of the Cybermen. I'm just asking like, it's
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  ambitious, but should you perhaps be less ambitious if you
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  haven't got the money? I like the fact that they
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  really, really tried. It's never particularly bothered
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  me. Like Kroll, for example.
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  You have to suspend your disbelief.
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  If you didn't do that with Doctor Who, you'd have turned it
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  off at the very first episode in 1963.
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  I like the fact that they've at least tried, because for every
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  failure there is a success. Like Planet of Giants 1964,
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  you're making massive sort of scale plug holes.
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  If you just suspended this belief, you are there.
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  The story hangs together, and it shouldn't on Doctor Who's
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  budget, but it does. I do wonder as well, you know,
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  if I was more forgiving as a kid, as a young kid.
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  Because I can't remember watching some of these stories
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  as a kid and I were looking at the effects.
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  I was just enjoying the story again.
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  You paper over the cracks. I don't remember seeing anything
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  when there was a kid and thinking that's a terrible
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  effect. And you're right as well,
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  because sometimes even in this episode, even if the effects are
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  pretty shonky in this episode, but there are moments where they
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  get it right. I thought, OK, so they can't do
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  it. Yeah, it's nice, Sylvester McCoy
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  said. When they were filming Silver
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  Nemesis, a lot of the time they didn't actually want more money,
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  they just wanted more time. And if you listen to the behind
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  the scenes for something like Nightmare of Eden, which is a
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  brilliant story, the model shots were all done in about two
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  hours, were usually it would take a week on film and the
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  special effects guys, I think it was Colin Mapson for that one.
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  He was horrified by the results and the memos, the internal
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  memos flying about at the BBC where this is brilliant.
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  We've got everything done cheaply in two hours.
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  We must Do This again and the Model Workshop were horrified
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  that you would just what's the point?
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  What's the point of us doing this?
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  You're going to spaff out on screen something that looks
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  utter shit because you look at it and I don't think it's
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  actually too terrible, but you can tell there's a massive
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  difference between film and video.
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  Certainly comes to morals. Well, Mattson should have just
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  turned around and said, well, there's a reason why, you know,
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  the producers of Star Wars are not knocking out their model
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  effects on video in two hours looking like Flash Gordon from
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  the 30s. Have you ever seen those?
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  Oh no, no, no. I saw.
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  I saw that since the latter day, but no Flash Gordon from the
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  30s. Honestly, get yourself wrecked
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  and watch one of those and pot on that.
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  Sounds amazing. Oh, they're utterly awful.
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  What do you reckon? Is that OK?
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  Of all of these I've mentioned, you know, the Loch Ness Monster?
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  Kroll, all of these, You know, the giant maggots, The giant
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  spiders. What do you reckon it's like,
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  the most successful? Most successful effects.
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  Of sort of like the, you know, the larger scaled monsters.
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  And if you say the Murka just to be contrary, no, I'm not that.
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  I'm not that wanky to say, Oh yes.
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  But if you look at the work that went into putting, no, the the
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  Murka was shy. See, I honestly thought the
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  Murka was going to put in a reappearance in Jody Whitaker's.
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  I thought, you've got a chance here to rehabilitate the Murka.
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  And he even balls that up. They did a trailer.
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  They did a trailer with a sea monster in it.
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  And I was like, well, that's a dead Sir.
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  That's the Murka. Oh, chibno, you Otter cock.
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  The best big effect. I'm not very good at this
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  podcasting. Like, I'm going to have to
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  think. Thinking a 10:30 at night.
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  It's a dangerous business. I do like some of the
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  perspective shots in some of the heart and all stuff.
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  So say the ship in the Ark. In fact, I think there's a
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  statue shot in the Ark and it's not bad.
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  There's a crane shot, I think, in the arc or they've certainly
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  got the camera really high with a backdrop that makes it look
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  like it goes off into the distance.
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  And then the sense of scale to it that you don't normally get
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  in the corner of lime growth in the Hartnell era, there's some
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  really, really ambitious shots going back to that in the
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  Hartnell era. The one that sticks out, there's
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  a shot in the center, right? I do not like the sensor eyes.
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  It bores the ass off me. But there's a shot where they go
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  from the interior of the TARDIS, through the doors and follow
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  them into the ship. That is a shot you never got for
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  the rest of the series. I think they've done it in the
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  new series, haven't they? But they, they never did it
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  again in their classic series. Well, and that's because they
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  just did that thing of having two sets next to each other.
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  You go through the doors from one to the other, absolutely
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  something they could have done in our.
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  But you know, in other classic Doctor Who stories, yeah.
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  That's fantastic. Oh, the Briggs getting a bit
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  Aggie. He gets really crossing this.
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  I can't sort the destructor codes and that.
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  Here's the doctors here a moment.
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  Now he gets to come in and just, you know, touch a few buttons.
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  Elizabeth Slayton absolutely has that looking.
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  Oh, that said, I'm sorry to cut across you there, mate.
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  That terrible, terrible, staggered crash soon to all the
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  countdown that did not work. Well, I said in a previous
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  episode that we'd lost. You know, the dramatic closeup
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  of being evil. Maybe we've lost the staggered
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  zoom, because it's, well, awful. Can they have vanished?
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  You remember in the last episode when the robot, they don't you
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  laugh me, would I say this or I was tearing sticks, you know,
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  the robot was revealed. So the Kern was pulled aside
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  during that nasty meeting and the robot was revealed.
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  Yeah, I think that's supposed to mirror King Kong.
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  You know, the bit where he's revealed in the theater?
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  I've never thought of it that way before, but you're almost
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  certainly right, because one of my favorite tearing sticks
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  quotes is There's nothing wrong with a good original idea.
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  It doesn't necessarily have to be your good original idea.
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  He's so great, isn't he? Please release that interview.
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  I'll bet it's full of gems. Where was that?
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  I think now this is weird. Today I've been down into the
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  archives in the basement in Preston Court, and I found an
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  old VHS copy of more than 30 Years in the TARDIS, and I think
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  that's where it's from. But it was more the fact that
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  I've found a can of Doctor Who film in the bottom of it.
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  How did it end up there? Did you get excited?
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  My God, it's Marco Polo episode one.
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  No, it's more than 30 years in the time.
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  Yeah, alas. Alas, how the fuck did that
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  cassette get down there? End up in a Mormon church?
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  What do they do in those churches?
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  You don't want to know silver fetish suits, it's only just
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  occurred to me actually the all the location stuff in this is
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  done on video as well. Deliberate as well.
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  Barilet says that in the documentary that it's because
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  they were going to do so many CSO shots in this last episode
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  and they've done pre that. Do you remember when the the
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  Humour Bill goes flying in Planet in the Dark?
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  You've got video shots of the humour Bill, against film shots
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  of the location and it looks terrible.
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  So if you look later when he, the brigade is about to shoot
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  him now, when he's sort of stomping about because the
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  video, it's all done on video, it's a bit crisper than it
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  otherwise would be. I think that's why they learned
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  their mistake after invasion of the dinosaurs.
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  Oh, paintly they didn't. They did again in Planet, didn't
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  they? Now another observation, the
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  steering wheel of Bessie. It looks like it's on the wrong
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  way around and it looks really uncomfortable.
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  I'm not a driver, you know. Some people would have noticed
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  that you don't drive. Oh.
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  No, no, no. Shanks his pony.
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  Oh, what a great expression. So I'm absolutely obsessed with
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  watching this robot walk, you know, apparently Paul Michael
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  King Gareth face palmed many times, like he went over a
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  couple of times. The trouble is, they put him in
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  a top heavy suit with a plastic nappy on.
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  Him. He stopped the countdown with
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  two seconds to spare. Oh, now he's attacking Sarah
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  Jane. That's that's not on.
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  That robot costume actually isn't bad, almost certainly
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  plastic, but it does look quite metallic.
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  It's too cumbersome to do any action is that's the problem.
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  I'll tell you why you couldn't show this to not we.
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  Well, there are many reasons, but one of them is this robot
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  having a nervous breakdown right now.
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  Yeah, in a bit. We shoots kettle well and it's
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  like, oh, I have shot the one who created me.
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  I think that's what I think. That's what a lot of not, we
• 14:06
  think, Doctor Who's like all the time.
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  Uh, the bottle is true with bubbling bottles in it, because
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  that's what they're all like. I mean, it's not, but it does
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  sum up the doctor well, don't it?
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  Being busy and. You know, quirky experiments.
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  So that's right, he's creating his fantastic anti metal virus
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  or something like that, isn't it?
• 14:28
  It's a bit like the anti plastic in rows, but there's a lot of
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  mirrors here. You see how insightful we're
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  being podcasting. Basically, it's our plot
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  convenience to get rid of them. Yes, the Brigadier is about to
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  shoot him with an M bigener, and once he's all swollen and
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  engorged as you put it, but Octagon's going to spray him
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  with bromide. Did you say, oh staggered crash
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  zoo? Oh God, my bleeding eyes.
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  Joe, this is half the fun with the extra most experiment you
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  know is you having horrific reactions to what you're
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  watching. I blame Simon.
• 15:13
  I would not have profaned my own retinas with this stuff, but he
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  finds the most incredible shirt and it's there on screen.
• 15:21
  Thank God we've got gin cushion the blow.
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  As we do tonight. Oh, look at those old graphics.
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  Oh yeah, Harry's in this. I forgot, he hasn't done much
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  for me carry this sort of peg up, don't they?
• 15:36
  And on the unfortunate thing to say, but they put him on the
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  coat rack and then bring him down when they need somebody
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  extra in a scene. Well, then you know, when you
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  skip forward to the arc in space, he gets tons of doing
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  that. I don't think they've quite
• 15:50
  figured out how to write him yet.
• 15:52
  I do love Harry in that season. I love the dynamic between him
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  and the Doctor, the drop between piss all the time.
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  And there's a very gentlemanly based in Arc in Space where they
• 16:03
  lay Sarah down on the sort of transporter bed thing, and he
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  pulls down her skirt so that the camera can't see her knickers.
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  Liz Laden says on the commentary.
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  Thank you very much, Ian. I saw that.
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  But Sarah and Harry are very sort of brother and sister as
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  well, aren't they? Very.
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  They're sort of always snarky with each other, but in a really
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  fun way. Oh no, here we go, here we go.
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  The engorgement has begun. My Jamie.
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  That is a big one, isn't it? Look at the head on that.
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  We could go all night. I bet you called you dirty.
• 16:49
  Look at this lady doing our best.
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  Gosh, isn't it tall acting? It's got Nora Batty stockings
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  on. Oh no, but look, you see there's
• 16:56
  too harsh of a lie on the robot, so the artificiality of the shot
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  is really obvious everywhere. Oh yeah, that's not good.
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  Oh no, that shit, that's terrible.
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  And. Look at the dolly's legs.
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  Oh, wait for that's glorious. Now I shall return to my
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  question about being overly ambitious.
• 17:23
  This may be one of those moments where ambition would have been
• 17:26
  best underachieved. I just want you to imagine your
• 17:30
  10 year old self now, OK? Get that in your head.
• 17:33
  OK, You're watching Robot episode 4 and your mother walks
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  in just as this bit is playing out.
• 17:41
  I mean, how would you feel see in those days, you see Bearing
• 17:44
  men were watching it through 21st century eyes.
• 17:47
  So we're a lot more cruel than we would have been in those
• 17:50
  days, because I remember seeing an episode of a Saturday morning
• 17:54
  superstore where John Craven was stood in was either Mike Reed or
• 18:00
  Noel Edmonds mouth with CSO. And I truly believed, and it
• 18:05
  must have looked utterly crap. And you think the kids at the
• 18:08
  time were convinced? Yes, I do.
• 18:11
  A lot would have been still watching on really old TV's with
• 18:15
  low resolution. Oh, and you know what?
• 18:17
  Right? I am taking the mic out of this
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  a lot. Yeah, I love this.
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  I love it. You know it's coming from a
• 18:24
  place of warmth rather than the spy.
• 18:28
  And that man, he literally got squashed there.
• 18:31
  See, that's pretty good, the way he steps through that building,
• 18:34
  kicking his shed to shit. It's like, you know how people
• 18:37
  say the Brigadiers sort of characterized, oh, that fellow
• 18:40
  fell over a character, a Brigadier, like a bit of a
• 18:44
  buffoon as he went along. I mean, this might be his his
• 18:48
  worst move yet. You know the robot's doing a bit
• 18:51
  of a soft shoe shuffle rather than walking.
• 18:54
  Well, you know, he's got to write a letter to that soldier's
• 18:56
  family saying, well, it is a fact that I engorged this robot
• 19:01
  and then he stepped on it, but he went down the line of duty.
• 19:06
  There really should be some bad disco music playing over this as
• 19:09
  the robot's dancing about. You know, I was watching Seeds
• 19:14
  of Death the other day. I don't know if you remember
• 19:16
  much about that one. When the Ice Warrior T mats to
• 19:19
  Earth and he doesn't like literally a minute's Duke, the
• 19:23
  second he walks out, he turns left, Right.
• 19:25
  He does the okie pokey. It's very funny.
• 19:28
  Oh, I don't remember that. I don't have to go and look at
• 19:30
  it now. See to death.
• 19:32
  When that first got released on DVD, I'd only ever seen the
• 19:36
  ropey VHS. I was terrible, wasn't it?
• 19:39
  And then you look at the DVD and you think this could have been
• 19:42
  filmed yesterday. It's actually surprisingly well
• 19:45
  directed to that one, although they do look like they're
• 19:49
  wearing plastic nappies in there.
• 19:50
  And the underpants on the outside.
• 19:54
  And look, you know, I've tried it.
• 20:00
  Well held, Tom Baker. I really hate these part
• 20:04
  resolutions. So you know, like, Oh yeah, we
• 20:06
  just got this. This antidote that's gonna
• 20:10
  Polish the robot off. It's not been built into the
• 20:13
  story as it it's just like a well, you know, we've had our
• 20:16
  fun. We run around 4 episodes.
• 20:18
  Here's your ending. We've seen a few things like
• 20:22
  that over the years where you know that they shoot 25 minutes.
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  Now fuck off, you've got a story out of it.
• 20:28
  And look at Tom Baker. They're celebrating before he's
• 20:32
  seen the robot disintegrating. He's so convinced of his own
• 20:35
  success, you know, why isn't that metal handle
• 20:38
  disintegrating? Boy, don't be that fan, all
• 20:41
  right? Yeah.
• 20:46
  See, I don't mind that his legs are disappearing beyond the CFO
• 20:50
  curtain a little bit, but he's shrinking.
• 20:54
  I want to applaud the ambition, Ken, he goes, and then just
• 21:09
  collapses into a walnut and you. Need to go hang up a Hal 3000.
• 21:19
  There's a lot of soldiers there. It's not a bad effect of a
• 21:22
  rusted robot, though it does look quite.
• 21:25
  Pathetic, but they do do this pretty well, you know, Things
• 21:28
  disintegrating. I was talking about this the
• 21:30
  other day. It's only conversation that only
• 21:32
  Doctor Who fans would have, you know, but like, they do like
• 21:35
  Bodies turn into Ash and things like that really, really well.
• 21:38
  Again, there was some effects that they did in Classic Who
• 21:41
  that they'd never dream of putting on telly.
• 21:43
  Now the lettuce would you like? Lettuce.
• 21:47
  What's that? You know the letters they'd get?
• 21:50
  Well, not. I don't remember this episode of
• 21:55
  Dr. Whom's Awful. I'm going to send some
• 21:57
  vegetables. Damn.
• 22:02
  I do like this. So, you know, we might mock the
• 22:04
  whole sort of favorite King Kong thing, but Elizabeth Slaton's
• 22:08
  trying to give it a bit of emotion.
• 22:09
  She was there. Really sad that the robot had
• 22:12
  been killed. I just think she can sell this
• 22:15
  stuff, you know, to the cows come over.
• 22:17
  She's, she's a very good actress.
• 22:19
  Tom Baker and List. They are the dream Team, though
• 22:23
  I don't think there's any of all the companion pairings that were
• 22:26
  on screen. These are the one and everybody
• 22:30
  goes on about David Tennant and Billy Piper.
• 22:32
  They were very good. Don't get me wrong.
• 22:33
  I would never take it away, but I still don't think that this
• 22:38
  and by the time they get to hand the fear, they are just
• 22:41
  completely in their stride. Glorious.
• 22:44
  Isn't that bit where she goes, Well, I worry about you.
• 22:47
  And he goes, well, I worry about you.
• 22:50
  You're just like, Oh my God, they love each other.
• 22:53
  Although they don't love each other in the way the new series
• 22:56
  seems to suggest, no. And I never really liked that
• 23:01
  when they tried to imply that Sarah Jane was in love with him.
• 23:05
  Because it's just not that. And even looking at it through
• 23:08
  21st century eyes, the whole Sarah Jane Doctor thing, there
• 23:11
  was never that. And you can know you can't see
• 23:14
  it as that. They were just mates.
• 23:16
  They were. Traveling best.
• 23:17
  Yeah, absolutely. And I still say that's when
• 23:20
  Doctor Who's it is best. All this undercurrent of romance
• 23:24
  I don't like. They've done it with Rose.
• 23:26
  They explored it very well, very thoroughly, right.
• 23:29
  You've done that, bottom that out.
• 23:30
  But they just keep going with it and every companion's got to
• 23:33
  have some. The only one that didn't is
• 23:35
  Donna and that worked well. It worked beautifully, didn't
• 23:40
  it? Well, not according to your
• 23:41
  podcasting partner. He likes Donna Noble.
• 23:45
  He just doesn't like Catherine Tate trying to do Angsty.
• 23:50
  I can see where he's coming from, and but I I never
• 23:56
  particularly cared for Catherine Tate as a comedian.
• 23:59
  I tried her show, didn't like it because it was all that.
• 24:03
  It was just another one of those that it relied on the catch
• 24:07
  phrase for the gag. So I didn't.
• 24:11
  Go into that by that point anyway.
• 24:13
  Oh yeah, I know, but I'm so I'd managed to miss all that so I
• 24:17
  could watch her just as Donna Noble.
• 24:21
  And it's the same that I've done with Shooty Gatwa.
• 24:23
  I've not gone looking for any of the other stuff because I know
• 24:27
  that the main one is sex education, and it's quite
• 24:30
  company feet in that. I don't want to go into his era
• 24:34
  colored by a preconception of what he's going to be.
• 24:39
  I mean, you know, I think Doctor Exton is an extremely
• 24:42
  intelligent man, but I think he's mad on that point because I
• 24:45
  think Catherine Tate is staggeringly good in series four
• 24:49
  of Doctor Who. I really love it.
• 24:51
  Yes, just series four, I think, because I'm not a big fan of
• 24:55
  Series 3 and I very rarely go back to series 2 if I'm honest.
• 25:00
  Moffett stuff. I have a lot of trouble with the
• 25:01
  Moffett stuff, and that's not a popular opinion, but really.
• 25:06
  Yeah, I think Series 6 might be my least favorite season of
• 25:10
  Doctor Who ever. No, I will go with you on that
• 25:13
  because it's just too bloody complex.
• 25:16
  Doctor Who in that period in the Moffett era, he didn't know what
• 25:19
  he wanted to be, so it was all over the place.
• 25:22
  It changed its style all the time.
• 25:24
  So there was no consistency at all through Matt Smith.
• 25:28
  Zero. And much as I love Matt Smith
• 25:31
  and he proved me completely wrong when I saw him cast, I was
• 25:35
  disappointed. It was some baby faced young
• 25:37
  pretty boy. I thought shit a break, right?
• 25:40
  Well, I love the older Doctors. I think older men playing the
• 25:44
  Doctor, or indeed an older woman like, say Helen Mirren, whose
• 25:46
  name I've couldn't remember for some reason 2 episodes ago.
• 25:49
  I want that level of gravitas. Matt Smith, within two minutes
• 25:54
  of being on screen, completely proved that I was utterly wrong
• 25:57
  and should never be listened to you.
• 25:59
  Know what? I'm just going to We're
• 26:01
  literally contradicting each other in this last episode
• 26:03
  because Matt Smith is my least favorite Doctor of all.
• 26:07
  Of all, that's not a popular opinion either, and for the
• 26:11
  opposite reason. I'm not at all convinced by it
• 26:14
  just seems like a kid trying to act with some rapper's hats.
• 26:17
  That's why when Capaldi came along, I was absolutely sold
• 26:21
  immediately. He just had it.
• 26:23
  Whatever it is, he just had it. But I accept I'm in the minority
• 26:28
  there and the Matt Smith is an extremely and a lot of people's
• 26:31
  favorite. Like I said, you know, we all
• 26:34
  come with different opinions, don't we?
• 26:35
  Oh yeah, and that's, I've often said the Doctor Who is the best
• 26:40
  format because it can go anywhere, backwards in time
• 26:43
  forwards in time of spaceship, underground, little country
• 26:47
  village in the 16th century, 5 billion years in the future.
• 26:50
  It doesn't need to explain why, it just does it.
• 26:54
  The main the central character changes all the time, the
• 26:56
  companions change all the time. The inside of the TARDIS gets a
• 27:01
  lick of paint now and then. You can do anything with it.
• 27:04
  And because there's so many things in there to like and
• 27:07
  dislike, everybody's got a different take on it now.
• 27:10
  I personally think that the Doctors have got as much as I
• 27:14
  love Eccleston, they've got better with each regeneration
• 27:18
  until they got to. For me, Jodie Whitaker and I not
• 27:23
  entirely convinced that bringing back tenants is a good move, I
• 27:27
  would have preferred they'd just let Shooty Gatwer prove himself
• 27:31
  rather than piggyback off, right.
• 27:32
  We need to get people back on board.
• 27:35
  So we'll bring back the fan favorite, get him back on side,
• 27:38
  and then introduce a new Doctor. I think it would have been
• 27:40
  bravest to just let him take over, but I'm getting deep,
• 27:43
  aren't I? What I like about Tenant coming
• 27:46
  back, and I also read is a bit too much looking back.
• 27:49
  But what I think what Rusty Davis is trying to do is, is go
• 27:52
  remember when this show was massively popular.
• 27:56
  No, no, I genuinely think that like, you know, let's look back
• 27:59
  to when this show was at his high and then there's piggyback
• 28:02
  off that. From a commercial point of view,
• 28:04
  it makes absolute perfect sense. So I'm never going to knock it
• 28:08
  because I want Doctor Who's to have this bright new future.
• 28:11
  Nobody wants to sit there saying, well, not as good as it
• 28:14
  used to be when I was a boy. That's just a terrible attitude,
• 28:18
  and I've never thought that until 2017, when I became a
• 28:22
  terrible old bigots. Apparently I want to fall in
• 28:29
  love with the program. Against that.
• 28:31
  Oh, and I've seen some of the you see, I love the fact that
• 28:36
  you know people like me who are your middle-aged white man.
• 28:38
  Now we're supposed to hate everything and look back to the
• 28:42
  glory days row And we had an empire we didn't have.
• 28:44
  Dr. Whom like this. I see people on Twitter who are
• 28:48
  arguably more not well because it's a terrible term, but you
• 28:53
  know, in tune with modern thinking, they're far less
• 28:56
  tolerant about things than I am. Oh, for sure.
• 29:00
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sometimes I think the extreme
• 29:03
  left is louder than the extreme right.
• 29:06
  I think they're both pretty terrifying, actually.
• 29:09
  But. Yeah, I agree with you.
• 29:12
  But you know what? Like, you know, I've listened to
• 29:14
  your podcast. I don't think you have any
• 29:16
  particularly troubling views. Like, there are things I agree
• 29:20
  with you. There are things I disagree with
• 29:21
  you and that help. That's life and we're all the
• 29:24
  same. It would be very dull.
• 29:25
  Oh, absolutely. And that is what makes for good
• 29:28
  podcasting, as I've said to you earlier.
• 29:30
  The dullest podcasts that I've heard.
• 29:33
  And when you get two people in the room with exactly the same
• 29:36
  views, who gush about everything or poor spittle over everything
• 29:40
  and. You know what my my absolute is
• 29:44
  it my favorite. It's one of my favorite
• 29:46
  recordings I ever did was when I did 4 to Doomsday with Steven
• 29:51
  Alexander. And he really likes it and I
• 29:54
  really hates it. And we battled it out for all
• 29:57
  four episodes and he, you know, normally, you know, I'm pretty
• 30:02
  fierce. But he was fiercer, and it was a
• 30:05
  hell of a hell of a recording and a hell of a listen.
• 30:08
  And I just think it was more interesting for having the
• 30:10
  opposing news. Oh, it is.
• 30:13
  And that's part of the reason that I think Simon and I have
• 30:15
  such a wail of a time on Exton Moss, because a lot of the time
• 30:20
  we are coming to things from very different angles.
• 30:23
  I'm not going to make the obvious joke there.
• 30:26
  I refuse to be dragged down to this level again.
• 30:31
  You weren't complaining earlier. And in a way, like, I mean, it's
• 30:41
  been a fun one to talk about. In a way.
• 30:43
  It is almost a shame actually, that we've chosen something
• 30:46
  where we're kind of in A cause. And you know it's you and me.
• 30:50
  And we've been this podcast in Malarkey for a long time.
• 30:53
  The old lags now. Boy, you.
• 30:55
  Can make it interesting. Listen.
• 30:57
  But you know what? Next time I think, well, if I
• 30:59
  kind of touch you back, I think we should do this.
• 31:02
  You know, find one where we're in disaccord and have a
• 31:07
  discussion. I reckon we could probably do
• 31:09
  something in Moffett's area. You know, where we can have a
• 31:11
  gay old time, Right? You're on.
• 31:17
  I would love to come back out. It's been a wonderful 4 episodes
• 31:20
  and you must come on to Xmas with us.
• 31:24
  Excuse me? I've watched the whole of
• 31:25
  fucking DOOM watch. Really.
• 31:28
  Yes, I'm coming on your Doom Watch episode.
• 31:30
  No, I mean, you've watched the whole of it, yeah.
• 31:32
  Yeah, yeah. I bought the set and I watched
• 31:34
  the whole of it. We're only talking about, I
• 31:35
  think it's five episodes, but all of them fucking.
• 31:39
  Hell yeah, I think series 2's on really ropey.
• 31:42
  Not even VHS copies are they? But no, no, I really enjoy the
• 31:45
  series. I got lost to say it as well
• 31:47
  because I think as a premise they could make it now.
• 31:50
  If you had someone who was brave and hard hitting and you know,
• 31:55
  would really sort of go in for the kill, it would be really
• 31:57
  interesting show to do nowadays, I think.
• 31:59
  I think so too. He's ripe for remaking.
• 32:03
  But but no, I think that would be a great idea.
• 32:05
  Picking a Series 6 Moffett episode that you can't stand and
• 32:09
  I don't think it's too bad and we can tear it apart in
• 32:13
  different directions and just yes.
• 32:16
  Series 6 where you could just take your pick then.
• 32:18
  Honestly, actually now there's two I quite like, I quite like.
• 32:21
  I know I love the Doctor's Wife and I really like the God
• 32:25
  complex, but anything else, it's fair game.
• 32:32
  I will pick one and we'll do that next then.
• 32:34
  To out robot, just very, very quickly in a few sentences.
• 32:39
  If you could surmise robot for me, well, it's there, isn't it?
• 32:46
  Yes, it's definitely there. Yes, there have been better
• 32:50
  intros for Doctors. It is a hangover from Pertwee.
• 32:55
  I won't be rushing back to it, but it's not bad.
• 32:59
  I think this is definitely midrange Doctor Who.
• 33:04
  It's got great regulars in it. It feels a bit tired because the
• 33:08
  format has been done and dusted. We're about to head into some of
• 33:13
  the most original Doctor Who we've seen years and years, and
• 33:18
  I think when the archive space hits, it just shows this to be
• 33:23
  even more tired, you know, than when you're watching it control.
• 33:27
  But it is fun and it does have some quirky special effects and
• 33:31
  some funny lines. And you know, there's a lot
• 33:34
  worse as well. Yeah, the hinge Cliff era.
• 33:37
  Scrap this one off your boot and we'll do it properly next week.
• 33:41
  Ken, thank you very much for your time.
• 33:44
  Oh, thank you for asking me. Been an absolute pleasure for me
• 33:47
  as well, Joe. Love to you all.
• 33:49
  I will look forward to being with you again.
• 33:54
  Hamster with a pen knife for doing.
• 33:55
  Quicker, quicker, quicker.