Latest / The Start, Scale & Succeed Podcast / Hire Three People, Work Ten Times Harder with David Salerno (stage 3) - Ep. 446

Transcript

Hire Three People, Work Ten Times Harder with David Salerno (stage 3) - Ep. 446 · The Start, Scale & Succeed Podcast

• 0:00
  Scott Ritzheimer: Hello, hello, and welcome, welcome once again
• 0:02
  to the Start, Scale, and Succeed podcast that grows with you
• 0:06
  through all seven levels of your journey as a founder. I'm your
• 0:09
  host Scott Ritzheimer, and there are some founders listening, and
• 0:13
  and you've you've hired people because that's what you do to
• 0:17
  get your life back as an entrepreneur, right? Isn't that
• 0:19
  how it works? Except that it doesn't work that way for some
• 0:23
  reason, and you end up working harder than ever. And this is
• 0:27
  never more true than in the reluctant manager stage because
• 0:30
  it seems like the work might leave your hands, but it doesn't
• 0:34
  really leave your head. You end up having to pick up, you know,
• 0:38
  loose ends in the evenings. You end up having to do rework over
• 0:41
  the weekends, and it's totally exhausting. But it's not
• 0:45
  necessary. There might be a better way. I hope there's a
• 0:48
  better way. And here to point us in that direction is David
• 0:52
  Salerno, who is a serial entrepreneur, author, and vice
• 0:56
  chair of the Montreal Economic Institute, Canada's leading free
• 1:01
  market think tank. Over more than 20 years, he founded and
• 1:05
  scaled Soul Packaging Solutions to and scaled it to eight figure
• 1:10
  revenues and 530 clients across Canada, building systems so
• 1:15
  efficient the company ran itself. He did all that before
• 1:18
  executing a strategic exit. He's now got a book out built for
• 1:22
  freedom, which documents the Sherpa method, a nine-step
• 1:26
  framework for building businesses that no longer depend
• 1:29
  on their founders. David leads Entrepreneur Sherpa, a coaching
• 1:33
  and education company serving growth stage entrepreneurs
• 1:35
  across North America, and he's here with us today. David,
• 1:38
  welcome to the show. I'm excited to have you here. Throughout the
• 1:42
  book, and you know, in some of the stories you share, including
• 1:44
  your own, I just kept seeing it: the reluctant manager, the
• 1:47
  reluctant manager. And and here's the question that I have
• 1:51
  for you: Why is it that as founders we all feel like we're
• 1:56
  the only ones who feel this way?
• 1:59
  David Salerno: Great question. And Scott, thanks thanks for
• 2:01
  having me on on your podcast. I think I think we the reason we
• 2:07
  start a business is especially founders are a special type of
• 2:10
  animal. We're we're special and and we see a clear way of how it
• 2:14
  should be, and we have this vision, and then and then we
• 2:17
  just go for it, and then we get to a point where you gotta hire
• 2:20
  the team and whatnot, and that starts playing against you
• 2:23
  because you have the vision, they don't. You have the ways,
• 2:26
  they whomever that is, your team doesn't, and and you love them
• 2:29
  and whatnot, but you feel you're like this, the only guardian of
• 2:33
  that vision, and and that's where you get stuck, kind of in
• 2:36
  a in a trap, basically.
• 2:38
  Scott Ritzheimer: Yeah, yeah. One of the things that I see
• 2:42
  founders struggle with is that it's so clear to them that
• 2:47
  vision and where they're trying to go, and and even like the
• 2:49
  steps that you take to get there, that it's very easy to
• 2:53
  miss how much of that actually needs to be communicated. How do
• 2:57
  you help founders think about how to effectively communicate
• 3:01
  that vision and what it looks like in action.
• 3:05
  David Salerno: Yeah, in a way, the answer is so simple; it's
• 3:09
  almost almost sad. It it's basically a matter of first
• 3:14
  being clear about your vision, because we have a lot of ideas
• 3:17
  as entrepreneurs. We're constantly thinking, so the the
• 3:20
  target is moving in our head of how we can bring it to the next
• 3:23
  level, but the idea is to have a still frame of what it should
• 3:26
  look like, and I'll bring a specific example of how I lived
• 3:30
  it, and then you got to figure out a way to to make this a
• 3:33
  reality, and then make it in a way that it doesn't depend on
• 3:37
  you being in the room to communicate that vision. So,
• 3:40
  example in in the business I built in packaging B 2b
• 3:45
  business, I had a clear idea of onboarding our clients because
• 3:48
  it involves equipment, different types of materials, and whatnot.
• 3:51
  I was like, we're going to take care of these clients that
• 3:53
  they've never seen this anywhere else. And then obviously we'd
• 3:56
  make mistakes. We didn't have the right combination of
• 3:58
  products. I would have to inspect everything, so I was
• 4:02
  stuck in the reluctant manager to quote that level. And at some
• 4:06
  point, I realized it's I'm never going to get out of here if if
• 4:10
  if of that step in the whole scaling up of the business. So
• 4:13
  we basically sat down, and I wasn't want to be able to sit
• 4:16
  down and and document processes, systems, and processes is what
• 4:20
  we need, but is what we rarely like as entrepreneur and
• 4:24
  founders. So I basically hired somebody. Says you're going to
• 4:26
  sit down. We're going to sit in the room. We're going to. I'm
• 4:28
  going to describe the vision. Everybody around the room,
• 4:31
  because I believe in the collective intelligence.
• 4:33
  Everybody sees a bit of the process: what goes good, what
• 4:36
  doesn't go good, and between my vision at the time and whomever
• 4:40
  is involved, the technician, the the person takes the orders, the
• 4:42
  delivery guy, whatnot. We build that process, and then we're
• 4:45
  going to just you know pin it on the wall. And that was how we
• 4:49
  started years ago, and we had it documented. And then what I did
• 4:53
  is I would just do an audit. How are we doing? How are we doing?
• 4:56
  And we just tuned it until we perfected. And 15 years later.
• 5:00
  It's the same thing we do. 27 steps. Now we have technologies
• 5:03
  to support us instead of a word document on the wall. But that's
• 5:07
  what it is. Describe your vision. Have somebody because it
• 5:10
  won't be you most probably document it, communicate it, and
• 5:13
  that's it.
• 5:14
  Scott Ritzheimer: Yeah, I I like that, and I I really like the
• 5:18
  fact that we don't have to do it alone, which can feel like a
• 5:21
  huge trap, and and and it's just like it's impossible to even
• 5:24
  start when you feel like it's all on you. However, I hear
• 5:29
  process, and I hear that we get a lot folks on the show, all
• 5:32
  kinds of you process. Now, I've found that the definition of
• 5:36
  process varies dramatically. Like what a process is to a you
• 5:40
  know a level five founder leading a company of 600 people
• 5:43
  is different than a level three founder leading six for example.
• 5:48
  When you say a documented process, what does that look
• 5:52
  like? What does that mean?
• 5:56
  David Salerno: When Solpak Solpak is doing eight figure
• 5:58
  growing still growing double digits, but when Solpak was not
• 6:02
  there yet, let's say we crossed seven figure. Let's say we we
• 6:09
  literally wrote down the steps, and we'd literally have that
• 6:12
  physical. Now we're using applications that can help us. I
• 6:16
  think the real obstacle is not really the documentation. We've
• 6:20
  we've all you know, grew up as entrepreneurs, knowing okay, we
• 6:23
  gotta systematize and document. I think it's the trust. There's
• 6:27
  an element of of that we don't trust it's going to be carried
• 6:31
  the same way we would, and it will never be carried the same
• 6:34
  way we would. But it's probably going to get 90% there, and
• 6:37
  sometimes 105% there, because we're not the best implementers
• 6:41
  or executors at times, founders. I'm talking specific
• 6:45
  specifically to founders. So to to answer your question, when
• 6:48
  you're a team of six, maybe it is the weekly meeting where we
• 6:51
  all gather together and have discussions. What went well?
• 6:54
  What didn't go well? Maybe we didn't update the document, but
• 6:56
  at least we're keeping it alive in our top top activities that
• 7:01
  we're doing, whether it's it's delivering the service,
• 7:03
  delivering an app or whatnot, it's really getting that
• 7:08
  conversation going around an understanding of what it is that
• 7:12
  we're doing and how to do it.
• 7:14
  Scott Ritzheimer: Yeah, one of the things I think is so helpful
• 7:17
  about that is the level of clarity that it brings. Like
• 7:19
  you're saying, it's because it's not only the vision, but the
• 7:21
  actual steps to get there. A fortunate, maybe unfortunate
• 7:25
  side effect of that clarity is that you can see the problems
• 7:28
  more clearly too. Right? There are some folks that we brought
• 7:31
  into the team that it's just not the right fit for a whole number
• 7:34
  of reasons. Doesn't mean they're a bad person, but they're in the
• 7:37
  wrong role. You use a pretty clever phrase for this
• 7:41
  unrecruiting with compassion. What what does that mean, and
• 7:45
  and why is that something that founders need to hear today?
• 7:49
  David Salerno: Yeah, I love that. There's a trap for for for
• 7:52
  founders to assign responsibility or blame on
• 7:56
  people's interaction or activities or delivery. Right,
• 8:02
  unrecruiting with compassion in a way there's a possibility that
• 8:06
  actually your operations are are failing. There's something
• 8:10
  that's not well set up, so you think it's the person, but it's
• 8:13
  really the the the the system or the process. So having that
• 8:17
  conversation, and I love that you said, Scott, it's not the
• 8:21
  right fit for the role because that's exactly what I think the
• 8:24
  paradigm should be for for everybody. You have somebody
• 8:28
  that's not performing. Have that conversation. Understand what is
• 8:32
  it that's happening on their end, and it could be that it's
• 8:34
  not a good fit. Maybe the person has a bad memory, and they're
• 8:37
  supposed to memorize all these informations. Let's say in a
• 8:40
  restaurant, it's not going to happen. Well, unrequited with
• 8:43
  compassion, it's the idea that that person brings value, but
• 8:46
  maybe there's not a real fit for your business or for that role.
• 8:50
  Sometimes you want to keep that person in a different role, but
• 8:53
  look at that first rather than just blaming and and firing,
• 8:57
  basically.
• 8:58
  Scott Ritzheimer: Yeah, one of the things that I think we have
• 9:02
  a tendency to do, especially when that's missing, is we think
• 9:05
  that the most merciful thing we can do is hang on to folks,
• 9:08
  right? If we maybe we could have had that conversation a little
• 9:12
  bit different or been a little clearer, but I think a lot of
• 9:15
  times we just know that we know it's not a fit. What does
• 9:19
  compassion look like when you're firing somebody,
• 9:23
  David Salerno: and and I had so I was in telecom managing for
• 9:27
  for I don't know 10 years maybe before, and I perfected the art
• 9:31
  of unrecruiting with compassion in the way where I'd have my
• 9:35
  direct reports, and sometimes I realize okay things are not
• 9:38
  going well, lukewarm performance, and we were about
• 9:41
  excellence. So usually a few talks, like I mentioned, trying
• 9:44
  to understand is it the process? Because sometimes we figured out
• 9:47
  a glitch in the system and that really helped. But sometimes we
• 9:50
  came to the conclusion. So usually it would be a walk. We'd
• 9:52
  go for a walk, and and I'd ask deeper, deeper questions about
• 9:56
  like how do you find the job? And usually people that don't
• 9:58
  perform well are are. Not happy in what they're doing, most of
• 10:02
  the time, if not all of the time. So then you try to figure
• 10:05
  out what's happening, and usually there's two sides to the
• 10:07
  piece: the business is not getting what they need from that
• 10:09
  person, but the person is not getting what she needs or he
• 10:12
  needs from that job. And we come usually to that realization. And
• 10:15
  how many times I've cat and I've managed? I don't know. There
• 10:18
  teams are 30 people times five, so maybe 150 people total. That
• 10:23
  at the end of the day, we're like, you know what, David? I
• 10:24
  realize this is not a job for me, so I've already found
• 10:27
  something else. So in those that month of conversation, and I'm
• 10:30
  not talking if there was like a real problem like fraud or or or
• 10:35
  stealing or whatnot, just really like lukewarm performance. So
• 10:39
  that that's what it would look like for me a walk and a talk.
• 10:43
  Scott Ritzheimer: Yeah, yeah, it's it's wild because what I
• 10:48
  like about the way that you're presenting that, and I think I
• 10:51
  really want folks to grab onto this, is it's it's almost never
• 10:55
  one sided. If it's not working for you, you're so right. It's
• 10:59
  almost never, if ever, working for them, and where we miss that
• 11:05
  is when we don't have the conversations in advance, right?
• 11:09
  If you fire someone and they're totally blindsided by it, they
• 11:11
  didn't see it coming at all. That's because of what you
• 11:15
  didn't do before more than it is about whether or not you had the
• 11:18
  conversation now, or or how you could change that conversation
• 11:21
  now. So I really like that whole approach. I think it all fits
• 11:25
  together. We don't get to just kind of pick and choose one
• 11:28
  part. Do you agree?
• 11:30
  David Salerno: Absolutely, I agree. And and and on top of
• 11:32
  that is that everybody around is watching how you're handling the
• 11:36
  situation. So this compassion reverberates to others, and they
• 11:39
  understand that it's not that you're tolerating low-level
• 11:44
  performance or incompetence, mediocrity. It's that you're
• 11:48
  honoring the person first. But at the end of the day, decisions
• 11:52
  are taken because sometimes you do have to take the decision.
• 11:54
  It's not always just a walk and a talk. But yeah, I absolutely
• 11:59
  agree that we have things that we can learn from that team
• 12:03
  member ahead of the ball game when it comes to this type of
• 12:06
  conversation.
• 12:08
  Scott Ritzheimer: Yeah, so good, so good, David. I have a
• 12:11
  question that I ask all my guests. I'm interested to see
• 12:13
  what you have to say, but the question is this: What is the
• 12:15
  biggest secret you wish wasn't a secret at all? What's that one
• 12:19
  thing you wish every founder watching or listening today
• 12:21
  knew.
• 12:22
  David Salerno: So, so since most entrepreneurs have are
• 12:25
  struggling sometimes where they don't have clarity, so they
• 12:28
  double up on hustling and effort. It's not a hustle
• 12:32
  effort; it's a clarity effort. So, the biggest secret is there
• 12:35
  is a future you right now that is struggling, that has figured
• 12:38
  it out, and and and has success in whichever way it looks for
• 12:44
  you, but at the end of the day, in between those two states, all
• 12:48
  the answers are out there. They're in books. They're in
• 12:50
  podcasts. You just got to figure out and have clarity on what it
• 12:55
  is that you need to change to get to the future you who has
• 12:57
  figured it out.
• 13:02
  Scott Ritzheimer: It's so hard when it's like there's so much
• 13:04
  to hustle on, but I think it's so true, and I love the way that
• 13:08
  you you organize all this, especially from a clarity
• 13:10
  perspective in the book. You sent me several copies of it.
• 13:13
  It's actually it's fantastic book. I really enjoyed it. But
• 13:17
  tell us about that book because I think that that could help
• 13:20
  folks find the clarity that they're missing right now.
• 13:23
  David Salerno: Yeah. So the link between clarity and the book is
• 13:25
  the way it started, and and my goal was to build a business
• 13:28
  that did not depend on me initially. When I once I figured
• 13:31
  it out, and I started realizing a banker telling me, David,
• 13:34
  we've been talking for 90 minutes, and nobody's nobody
• 13:36
  called you, nobody knocked on your door, everybody's chill in
• 13:39
  the place. Like, what's going on? I thought that was the way
• 13:42
  you build a business, and at the end of the day, I thought, okay,
• 13:45
  what am I doing here? And I realized there were three
• 13:47
  challenges that I had to figure out: growth, sustainability, so
• 13:50
  it doesn't depend on me, and then to be of service. Because
• 13:53
  at the end of the day, you want to build something great, and
• 13:55
  for people to feel in the business and outside the
• 13:57
  business to feel great. So it was three main challenges, and
• 14:00
  then I'm like, okay, break these three down in three steps. So at
• 14:03
  the end of the day, the Sherpa method is really nine steps that
• 14:07
  you follow, and I broke it down even to three questions. So at
• 14:10
  the end of the day, you could I could take your business, ask
• 14:13
  you 27 questions, and I kind of know where where the hustle is
• 14:17
  happening, and that's where you get clarity. So that's what the
• 14:20
  framework is all about the Sherpa method.
• 14:23
  Scott Ritzheimer: That's fantastic, fantastic. It's in a
• 14:25
  book called Built for Freedom. For those of you watching on
• 14:28
  video, get to see it there. Where can folks get a copy of
• 14:31
  the book, David?
• 14:32
  David Salerno: Sure, I'm offering the first chapter for
• 14:34
  free just to get a taste if you like the style. So
• 14:37
  davidsalerno.com. So that's D-A-V-I-D-S-A-L-E-R-N-O.com.com,
• 14:43
  or they can just reach out on LinkedIn as well.
• 14:46
  Scott Ritzheimer: Fantastic! We'll get both of those in the
• 14:47
  show notes for all of you, so you don't have to go searching
• 14:49
  for them. You can just click or tap right there. David, thank
• 14:52
  you so much for being on. Thanks for sharing. Thanks for the
• 14:55
  books. They really are fantastic. And for those of you
• 14:58
  watching and listening, you know your time and attention. Mean
• 15:00
  the world to us. I hope you got as much out of this conversation
• 15:03
  as I know I did, and I cannot wait to see you next time. Take
• 15:07
  care. Hey everyone, Scott Ritzheimer here. Thank you so
• 15:13
  much for listening to the Start, Scale, and Succeed podcast. I
• 15:16
  hope this episode gave you exactly what you need for the
• 15:20
  level you're in right now. If you want to discover what level
• 15:24
  you're in, take our 10-question Founders Evolution Quiz for free
• 15:28
  at foundersquiz.com. That's foundersquiz.com. It'll pinpoint
• 15:33
  exactly where you are and give you tailored tips to move
• 15:36
  forward and reach that next level in your journey as a
• 15:40
  founder. If you got something out of today's episode, don't
• 15:43
  forget to subscribe, rate, or review. It helps us reach more
• 15:46
  founders like you, and let's be honest, it means a ton to me, my
• 15:50
  team, and all our incredible guests. So keep starting,
• 15:54
  scaling, and succeeding, and I'll see you in the nex t
• 15:57
  episode.