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Katie Woolf spoke with Police Association Paul McCue · 360 with Katie Woolf

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  Speaker 1: Joining me live in the studio right now is the
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  Speaker 1: President of the Police Association, Paul mchughue for the first
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  Speaker 1: time this year.
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  Speaker 2: Good morning, very good morning, Katie. Here're traveling. Just got
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  Speaker 2: through your first week that was for twenty twenty one
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  Speaker 2: of your recovery.
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  Speaker 3: I've survived.
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  Speaker 1: I've got about one hundred messages to read out, but
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  Speaker 1: that's okay.
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  Speaker 3: We'll get to know shortly, no problem. Oh, Paul, Let's
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  Speaker 3: go to the issue that's really dominated well.
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  Speaker 1: I've had so many people get in contact with me
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  Speaker 1: about this, even over the Christmas break, and that is
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  Speaker 1: the issue of youth crime. Now there's been plenty of
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  Speaker 1: calls for the bail laws to change. I did note
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  Speaker 1: this morning on the show that the Minister Kate Warden
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  Speaker 1: had said that it's that the police determine whether a
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  Speaker 1: youth is or isn't bailed.
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  Speaker 3: From your perspective, is that the case.
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  Speaker 2: Well, obviously, you know police. Police's role is to work
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  Speaker 2: within the legislative framework that they're given. Legislation is put
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  Speaker 2: in place, and we know amendments to the Youth Act
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  Speaker 2: Justice Act were implemented not too long ago, which provided
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  Speaker 2: a presumption in favor of granting a youth bail. So
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  Speaker 2: in effect, really, unless it's an extremely serious offense, an
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  Speaker 2: in ditable offense, prescribed defense, sorry, then the actual presumption
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  Speaker 2: is for bail. So the police are restricted in what
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  Speaker 2: they can and can't do, and unless it's an extremely
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  Speaker 2: serious offense, they will be released.
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  Speaker 3: What are police saying to you about that?
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  Speaker 2: Look, it's frustrating obviously. You know, we've only got limited
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  Speaker 2: resources out there on the road, and you know when
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  Speaker 2: you're seeing use and they go all night. I mean,
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  Speaker 2: this isn't just don't go to bed at one in
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  Speaker 2: the morning. They're up and about all night, right through
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  Speaker 2: to the early hours of the morning. And it's the
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  Speaker 2: police generally that are out there patrolling the streets and
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  Speaker 2: the ones picking them up, taking them home, finding a
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  Speaker 2: responsible a contacting the appropriate legal services, and all of
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  Speaker 2: those requirements fall on the police officers. So yeah, they're
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  Speaker 2: pretty handstrung and pretty frustrated.
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  Speaker 3: Is it having an impact on them morale?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, obviously it's frustrating. I mean when you go
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  Speaker 2: to work day in, day out, and you're there and
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  Speaker 2: you love your job, I mean plenty of police out
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  Speaker 2: there love doing what they're doing, but it gets frustrating,
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  Speaker 2: and you know, you feel like it's a revolving door
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  Speaker 2: and each day you're going to come to work and
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  Speaker 2: you're going to see the same youth out that night
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  Speaker 2: and committing other offenses. And we've seen the stats around
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  Speaker 2: how many that are released go and reoffend. It's pretty horrendous.
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  Speaker 1: Do we need to re look at those bail laws?
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  Speaker 1: You and I have spoken about this before. Is it
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  Speaker 1: time for us to re look at them?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I know that, you know, I know, and
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  Speaker 2: I visit in December, the Chief Minister and Minister spoke
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  Speaker 2: with many of our members on the ground that are
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  Speaker 2: working the specific operation in relation to youth crime and
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  Speaker 2: there were obviously some pretty frank discussions. Is my understanding
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  Speaker 2: to the Minister and Chief Minister around what could be done.
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  Speaker 2: And so it's disappointing to hear if they're closing the
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  Speaker 2: door on any options there around amending the legislation. I
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  Speaker 2: think that's foolish. If you're not going to listen to
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  Speaker 2: the people on the ground doing the job, then you're
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  Speaker 2: not doing your job. And we'd expect that they would.
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  Speaker 1: Listen well, and we spoke to the Chief Minister on
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  Speaker 1: Wednesday morning, I asked him to give a yes or
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  Speaker 1: no answer. He said, no, they're not looking at changing
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  Speaker 1: those youth bail laws.
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  Speaker 3: Quite the opposite, by the sounds of it.
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  Speaker 1: In Queensland, Anastasia Palachet, following on from that really tragic
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  Speaker 1: incident where two lives were lost allegedly at the hands
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  Speaker 1: of a seventeen year old out on bail, I mean, really,
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  Speaker 1: do we need to take a leaf out of Queensland's
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  Speaker 1: book here and at least open ourselves up to looking
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  Speaker 1: at this. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Look, I know the government are sort of hanging the
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  Speaker 2: hat on the various programs they're saying they're funding and
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  Speaker 2: so forth. But you know, when you've got one in
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  Speaker 2: two us going back out on the streets committing a crime,
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  Speaker 2: it's the victims we've got to think about here. And
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  Speaker 2: I think you know, if you're going to sit there
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  Speaker 2: and say, well, there's nothing we can do in terms
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  Speaker 2: of legislation to change that and allow the police greater powers,
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  Speaker 2: for example, or provide greater options for other agencies to
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  Speaker 2: come and assist, then you've got your head in the stand.
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  Speaker 2: There's no doubt how are.
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  Speaker 3: Our offices in our springs going at the moment.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I think they're feeling the pinch as well
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  Speaker 2: as everywhere. I mean, this is an issue across the board.
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  Speaker 2: We know, you know there's a lot of youth crime
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  Speaker 2: up in the top end and in various remote communities.
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  Speaker 2: So this is an issue across the board, and it
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  Speaker 2: does take up an enormous amount of our resources and
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  Speaker 2: our time. And of course you know, we want we
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  Speaker 2: want to see we don't want to see youths in custody,
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  Speaker 2: but we also need to think there's a lot of
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  Speaker 2: victims out there that need to be looked after as well.
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  Speaker 3: Can we talk police numbers?
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  Speaker 1: I understand at the end of last year we had
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  Speaker 1: quite the exodus. How many people left the police force
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  Speaker 1: at the end of last year.
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  Speaker 2: We had quite a few on those last few months
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  Speaker 2: where an attrition rate at the moment sitting in around
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  Speaker 2: ten per month. I know there was five in the
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  Speaker 2: last fortnight, so that when you're talking of those numbers,
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  Speaker 2: it's a significant concern. I know that there are some
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  Speaker 2: recruits in training at the moment, but to us, it's
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  Speaker 2: the quality of the experience of some of these people
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  Speaker 2: that are leaving. You can't replace that overnight, no matter
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  Speaker 2: how many numbers you pumped through the college. You can't
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  Speaker 2: replace experience, and that's the concern.
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  Speaker 3: Are there exit interviews and what are people saying when
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  Speaker 3: they leave?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, look, obviously you know there is an offer to
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  Speaker 2: sit down with a somebody in your line of command
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  Speaker 2: to sit down and a visual officer or officer in
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  Speaker 2: charge for example, to have a chat about that, but
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  Speaker 2: it's not taken up as often as it needs to be.
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  Speaker 2: There needs to be some honest feedback provided to both
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  Speaker 2: government and the commissioner about the reasons why people are leaving.
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  Speaker 2: We as an association are contacting as many as we
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  Speaker 2: can to find out those reasons. And some obviously are
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  Speaker 2: for family reasons and moving back home, but some are
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  Speaker 2: they're just they've just had enough. And some are obviously
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  Speaker 2: moving to other police forces who are actively recruiting.
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  Speaker 1: And is that the biggest I mean, are we losing
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  Speaker 1: people to to state. Are we're losing officers to other
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  Speaker 1: places because they want to go and work in another
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  Speaker 1: police force, or are we losing them because they're not
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  Speaker 1: happy with the conditions here.
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  Speaker 3: There's a bit of both.
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  Speaker 2: I think you've got some progressive governments into state at
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  Speaker 2: the moment. Who are proactively recruiting additional police. They recognize
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  Speaker 2: the additional requirements on what police are doing at the moment.
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  Speaker 2: We've got Western Australia just announced eight hundred additional police.
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  Speaker 2: We know Victoria are looking at two thousand, We know
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  Speaker 2: that Queensland are looking at fourteen hundred plus. That is
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  Speaker 2: a massive impact on the ability for us to retain
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  Speaker 2: our members if they're not happy in their job here
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  Speaker 2: and if you're going to another police force, if you're
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  Speaker 2: happy in your job here, why why are you going
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  Speaker 2: to another police force?
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  Speaker 1: Well that's a big question, isn't it. I mean I
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  Speaker 1: think a lot of us are wondering exactly that. Is
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  Speaker 1: there anything else we should be aware of at the
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  Speaker 1: moment with our force?
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  Speaker 3: And you know how our officers are feeling.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, look obviously at the moment, you know, we talk
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  Speaker 2: about frontline response capability and we know there's a lot
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  Speaker 2: of issues on the street. We know there's antisocial behavior,
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  Speaker 2: there's an increase in our cohol related harm, domestic violence.
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  Speaker 2: We are still highly concerned. We speak about this a
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  Speaker 2: lot last year, Katie, around the capability of what's available
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  Speaker 2: per shift. We know eight years ago there was a
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  Speaker 2: review done to talk about how many patrols this should
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  Speaker 2: be on a general duty shift. We are not even
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  Speaker 2: at the numbers that are recommended from that review eight
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  Speaker 2: years ago. In fact, I know there's a roster coming
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  Speaker 2: up where there's no more than one or two vans
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  Speaker 2: per shift again, and that is a huge concern for us.
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  Speaker 2: We know members are struggling fatigue wise, and here we
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  Speaker 2: are rolling around with one or two vans.
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  Speaker 1: Does there need to be another review into this or
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  Speaker 1: is it a situation here where we know what the
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  Speaker 1: issue is.
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  Speaker 3: It's just got to be sorted.
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  Speaker 2: We've had a couple of reviews into this. The last
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  Speaker 2: one was obviously eight years ago thereabouts. The answers are there.
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  Speaker 2: It's in black and white in terms of the numbers
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  Speaker 2: and what the I guess the priority should be for
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  Speaker 2: government and for a commissioner. Why are they still be ignored?
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  Speaker 2: Why have we not got the troops on the front
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  Speaker 2: line where we need them. There are questions that need
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  Speaker 2: to be asked because the answers are right there in
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  Speaker 2: those reviews.
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  Speaker 1: Well, Police Association President Paul McHugh, we are going to
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  Speaker 1: have to leave it there. Always good to catch up
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  Speaker 1: with you. Thanks very much for joining us in the studio.
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  Speaker 2: Thanks Katie and just On behalf of all the Police
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  Speaker 2: Association members. Well done on your recent award. Thanks well
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  Speaker 2: deserved and we appreciate your time.
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  Speaker 3: Thank you, I really appreciate that