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Ego, Surrender, and Spiritual Growth: Living a Humble Life in Recovery · Recovering Out Loud

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Hey everybody, welcome back. Welcome to Recovering Out Loud,
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the podcast where we talk about raw, unfiltered truth about
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addiction and fight for freedom. Today's guest is John C, sober
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since June 3rd, 2024. John gets into his 25 years of
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chasing highs, battling ego, finding redemption through
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humility and spirituality. From losing a college
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scholarship to rebuilding his life, John's stories in a roller
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coaster of grit and grace. Plus, in today's episode, we're
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tackling A listener's burning question.
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How do you support someone whose ego is sabotaging their
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sobriety? Performing in recovery versus
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practicing recovery? If you like the show, please
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subscribe and follow on all social media platforms at
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Recovering Out Loud Pod. If you have a topic or question
0:44
you'd like discussed on the show, please send us a message
0:47
on any of these platforms. We appreciate you.
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Johnny C How you doing, buddy? Not bad at all.
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Thank you so much for coming down here.
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I know it was a bit of a hike, so it's good to have you here.
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You know, I really appreciate you, man.
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You sent me a message while we were doing this and you
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basically said that, you know, you enjoyed the the material of
1:21
the podcast and it was helping you.
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And, you know, we love those messages we get, we get quite a
1:26
few of them. And and I heard, I listen to a
1:29
lot of podcasts, but I heard the guy that does Diary of a CEO.
1:32
I don't know if you guys heard that podcast.
1:35
I, I forget his name. Just bring the mic a little bit
1:37
closer to your face there. Yeah, we want to hear your
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beautiful voice. There you go.
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He said he measures the success of his podcast by the amount and
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length of messages that he gets from people.
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And I, I love that. It's like, you're right and like
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you're actually affecting people by putting this stuff out.
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And, you know, I try not to think in monetary success.
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And my ego has other plans usually, which we'll get into in
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this episode 'cause I want to talk about that.
2:07
You know, we got a really beautiful message, which I'll
2:10
read from one of our listeners. But first, I want to hear, you
2:13
know, tell the audience a little bit about your story and how you
2:16
got into recovery and. OK, so my name is John.
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My sober date is June 3rd, 2024 and I have been pretty much an
2:34
addict and an alcoholic for most of my life and my story is 1.
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You know, sometimes I actually think, is my story like dark or
2:47
is it enough? Yeah, enough.
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Yeah, compared to some of the some of the ones that we hear,
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right. That's funny, I'd be thinking
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that sometimes too. But truthfully, I had a great
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childhood, you know, if you think about it, son of two
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immigrant parents played sports all my life growing up.
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And you know, I, I, I was just lived in a great neighborhood,
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went to Catholic, Catholic school, elementary and high
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school. But I think that, you know, a
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lot of the time I just felt like I was always trying to be
3:30
someone I wasn't and I'd never really felt authentic at any
3:36
point. I kind of went which way the
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wind was going. If the kids from the from the
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neighborhood were making choices that I knew were wrong, I would
3:47
still kind of following that path.
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And unfortunately for me, you know, when I used to get caught,
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which was 9 times out of 10, the punishment was always pretty
4:04
severe. I come from an Italian household
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where sometimes the punishment didn't fit the crime.
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And so, you know, I was, you know, I, I need to prefix this
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by saying if I'm, if I, if I could be half the father my dad
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was, I'd be an amazing dad. But at the same time, you know,
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like I got, I got pretty beat up.
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And I used to, I used to think that that was going to be my
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life, you know, and a lot of the time I that forced me into
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lying, that forced me into trying to get away with shit
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that and, and, and that started what I have learned now to
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transform that those characteristics of, of being not
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authentic, right. And when I think back, you know,
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constantly having to to lie and to try to be somebody else is a
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huge component to, to why I chose to escape my reality using
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drugs and alcohol. And at the age of 15, I remember
5:25
my first time taking ecstasy and for like 6-7 hours I was not me
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and I chased that 6-7 hours high that a first time for the the
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last 25 years. So going back a little bit, my
5:48
first time trying alcohol was in the 7th grade.
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Friend of mine's parents went to down South and the parents
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brought back like a bottle of Cuban rum or Dominican rum or
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something like that. And me being the, you know,
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bigger kind of, I was always a lot taller.
6:09
And I was captain of the basketball team, captain of the
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volleyball team, track and field, right?
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I star baseball player growing up, I felt like it was my duty
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at that party to fill the cup up with rum to the top and see,
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look, look at me. Look what I could do.
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Took the whole cup of rum and I don't remember the rest of the
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night, but I do remember the punishment and that stuck with
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me for a long time. So, you know, high school came
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around and right from the first day of high school, I felt a
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little bit inferior to some of the older kids that desire to
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want to fit in, burn. So, so like I was just
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constantly wanting to hang out with the older kids, do what
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they were doing. And what were the older kids
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doing? Smoking cigarettes, you know,
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skipping the bus and getting in cars and going for rides around
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neighborhood and stuff like that.
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Even though I knew it was wrong and there was a punishment
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waiting for me at home, that's what I chose to do.
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But baseball was always my, was always my strongest sport
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growing up. And I ended up getting a
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scholarship to university and after grade 12, I, I signed my
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letter of intent and I went to the states to play baseball,
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which wasn't really popular back in 9899.
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And I remember, you know, in my household, it was like curfew
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11:00, you're not home. Like I was home 1130 curfew was
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12. I was home with 12.
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I was always trying to push the envelope.
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But in when I went away from my first year of university, it was
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like letting a dog out of the cage, right?
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It was like, and sure enough, freshman year, that's what they
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call first year in the states. Freshman year we were in, I was
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in Buffalo. So we would, you know, load a
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car full of full of the girls basketball team, girls
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volleyball team, guys hockey team, some of my teammates in
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baseball, we'd load up a car and we would drive to Toronto 2 hour
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drive, hour and a half, two hour drive.
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And we would party and then drive all the way back.
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And because I knew a couple people here in the club scene
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and stuff like that in my early years of university, like I felt
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like I was significant. Something to offer, you know.
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And you guys are coming back here because of the age limit?
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That's what I was thinking too. Yeah, not only the age limit, 19
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back in 2000, I don't know if you guys remember there was a
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nightclub on Sunday nights. You used to have two dollar
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shots and two dollar shots. Canadian.
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These Americans were like, Oh my God, it was like 15 bucks.
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I'm off my rocker, right? Yeah.
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So yeah, we, I, that, that was my.
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And then I, I, I gravitated towards that kind of acceptance
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always trying to and, and I was trying to always one up the, the
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weekend before. So there was a lot of trying to
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get creative with how we had fun, right?
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And like, perform in front of an audience almost, right?
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But The thing is though, is that my focus when I was there in
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university was supposed to be about education and baseball and
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parting took over right from the and I was 18 at the time.
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So sure enough, I got, I got, I got my scholarship taken away
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'cause my grades suffered. And I saw that at a very early
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age in order to achieve something or to keep that
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scholarship or whatever, it would require work.
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My story, gentlemen, I'm the 51% effort kind of guy.
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So if you look at all my report cards growing up, it was always
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John shows excellent, you know, attributes and it has has can
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can really perform in in a group setting, although he achieves
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below potential. Potential.
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That's what I was going to say. This word of potential for an
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addict and alcoholic is like the scariest word.
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Right, every single reporter, John is achieving below
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potential ability. Cause on the surface when I went
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home, I had to play the person that gave a fuck.
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But at school I, I just wanted to have fun, right?
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So that, you know, only gets you natural ability, only gets you
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so far. Eventually you're going to have
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to put in some work, right? It's probably why I would say
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that recovery for me today, relapse isn't a part of my story
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today because for the first time in 40 plus years, I'm actually
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putting in the work. There's been some significant
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things that have happened in my life that you would think would
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say, OK, John, it's time to, it's time to straighten up.
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It's time to get your shit together, IE relationships with,
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with girls, maybe marriage, having kids.
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And I actually verbally said it to myself.
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I'm like, all right, you got a kid on the way or do you know
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you're getting married? Like it's time to, it's time to
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straighten up, become a man. And I promised myself I would,
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but I just, I just went deeper and deeper.
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It's a progressive disease, right?
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So until I met my now wife, it wasn't, I didn't have adoc.
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It was just like, when was the next time you have to be
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responsible. So however long I had to be
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responsible, I was just right. Ecstasy, MDMA, cocaine, always
12:18
alcohol. Later in my 20s and well into my
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30s, but I could, I'm, I'm in the, the catering industry.
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I went to culinary arts school so I could go out the night
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before, drink, you know, take part in in extracurriculars and
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still make it to work for eight. AMI wasn't the best version of
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myself, but I'm the 51% guy, remember?
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You're still there. So I could be there and give it
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51%. So, you know, what cocaine is,
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is the is the constant. And then there was always like
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those weekends where if I had a Saturday night offer or
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something, I would give it a go and and do like all day
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Saturday, go out Saturday night to the club after hours, go all
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day Sunday, usually have Mondays off and then try to figure it
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out and then back at work on Tuesday.
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And that was my life from, you know, 2324 until about a year
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ago. 42 now going to be 43 in a month.
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Nice. Yeah.
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And you're coming up. So you're coming up on a year in
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June. You were just telling me about
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that. Congrats, man.
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That's huge. Huge, man.
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Yeah, you mentioned a lot. There's a lot in there that I
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can relate with, you know, the getting disciplined at a young
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age. And I've come to the realization
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too, that I lie, cheat and steal in life because I was always
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afraid of the consequence. Always.
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There was always a consequence waiting on the other side.
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And you know, I always say this, but my parents said the best
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they had with the tools that they they had at the time, the
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best they could with the tools they had at the time.
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Something else you meant about potential.
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It's funny, I was told my whole entire life I oh, you got lots
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of potential. You got lots of potential.
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And like, I always thought that was this great thing, like a
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great compliment. But I actually heard this the
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other night. I was at a, I was at a meeting
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and I heard someone say that same thing.
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They're like, I was, my parents told me my entire life, you have
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all this potential. You have all this potential.
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And then he started to realize once he started to go to
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recovery, he's like, wasn't actually a compliment.
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And you really think about they were telling me this because I
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wasn't doing what I was supposed to do.
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So this guy, he like he he described us the actual
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definition of potential. And it's just funny how like I
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remember the same feeling when my parents would be like, you
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have, oh, you have so much potential, kid, you could do
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this, you can do that. But they were telling me that
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because that was fucking up and I wasn't using my potential
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right. It was like a backhanded
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compliment. Yeah, that's exactly it.
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You're here and you could be here.
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Yeah. It's like could, should, would.
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It's like those dangerous words. And I would think, oh, I got
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potential though, Like I'm good. I got potential right now.
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I would use that one and really slide with it, yeah.
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But meanwhile, it's like, yeah, you could be here, right?
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You could be. And, and a lot of people come
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into recovery and they kind of reach their potential and, and
15:08
exceed it because you can really do anything you put your mind
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to. And I truly believe that today,
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a lot of it is fear, right? Just fear of the unknown, fear
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of making the wrong decision, fear of fucking up, fear of
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looking bad. And that's, I want to get into
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this, this ego topic because I think, you know, I got a message
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last night from one of our listeners, as I was mentioning
15:27
on Facebook at recovering out loud pod.
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And I want to encourage people that are listening, you know, if
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you have a question or you're going through something and you
15:36
want us to talk about it, like, please, like do this because I
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was so inspired to do a podcast on this.
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And I'm happy that you agreed to it.
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And the first thing you said to me was, oh, man, I struggle with
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that so much, right? So I'm going to read this.
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This is from a user that I I was talking with last night.
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Hi, I love what you're doing. Do you think you could do a show
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or have a discussion about how ego plays into addiction and
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recovery? A friend of mine is 2 1/2 years
16:00
into sobriety. He uses recovery words and
16:03
mantras and on the surface seems to seems to be changed in great
16:09
ways. Unfortunately, when digging
16:11
deeper, I realized he really isn't genuinely practicing key
16:15
principles like accountability, humility, compassion,
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consideration for others, and consistency.
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He continues to only seek out people who give him attention
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and praise him. He shares at meetings in order
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to be looked up to and feel important.
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He'll say things that commit to action, but rarely does he
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follow through if he doesn't perceive a benefit for himself.
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He's unable to sustain relationships with people if
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they have boundaries as he does not have control over those, as
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he does not have control over those boundaries.
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And those boundaries often don't feed his ego.
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So he doesn't like that. And then the second part too,
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which this is the part I love, right?
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It's very easy to point fingers and there's a lot of finger
16:54
pointing here, right? And and I do this all the time,
16:56
right? But the second part is I just
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think there's something to be said about surrendering one's
17:01
ego and when entering sobriety. I'm not an expert though, just
17:04
like to share that idea. And then she goes on to say, I'm
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also wondering, and this is the part I I really Love Actually.
17:13
I'm also wondering if you or your guests could offer insights
17:16
on how to best support someone still thinking and acting
17:20
through their ego in unhealthy ways.
17:23
How to address it? Validate progress.
17:27
Valid. Sorry, validate progress and
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show care without further perpetuating their facade,
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encouraging them to just be genuine and find balance in how
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they show up for both themselves and for others.
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I'm also curious about when, if ever, it is best to walk away if
17:45
they avoid accountability or act inconsistency inconsistently.
17:50
Jesus, I can't. Read It sounds to me like she's
17:52
describing an addict. Yeah, I mean, we're all like
17:55
that, right? So let me, I'm gonna, I'll
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tackle this first and then I'd love to hear your guys
17:59
experience with this. I want to preface this by saying
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I am not an ego expert. I am not an expert in addiction,
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right? And I think we kind of forget to
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mention that this is only my experience.
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I'm an expert in my experience and I have a lot of experience
18:13
with ego, my own ego. Of course, the first part of
18:16
this I want to dive into is like, yeah, we know every one of
18:20
us has that guy or girl where they're like, they come in, you
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know, they're sharing about these like beautiful quotes
18:25
they've heard. And you're like, oh man, that
18:26
guy or girl really gets it. That person got it together.
18:29
You know, their recovery program is amazing and they smile and,
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you know, I was always told it's so easy to like show up at, at
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recovery meetings at at fellowship at wherever, show up
18:39
in Group settings and like smile and nod and kiss babies.
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And you know what I mean? But the real work is as soon as
18:46
you leave that room, right, That one hour, 2 hours, whatever it
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is in the day, it's easy for me to go in there and be like, man,
18:51
my recovery's great. Everything's amazing.
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I'm tackling life. I have challenges, but they're
18:56
not bothering me. Everything's great on the
18:58
surface, you know, and at the end of the day, it's ego.
19:01
Like I, I, that's how I relapsed the first time.
19:04
I always say that I had this secret where I was using
19:07
Adderall and and other drugs, but I was managing my ADHD.
19:11
That was my justification. I wasn't bouncing it off
19:13
anybody. So I'd show up, I would say hi,
19:15
my life's good, everything's great and people that love and
19:18
know me, right? And I wouldn't stay after, I
19:20
would leave early. And, you know, I was checking
19:21
the boxes, as I always say, I was checking the boxes, right?
19:24
So, yeah, we, I, we know this guy, right?
19:27
The the beautiful part here is that she's recognizing that she
19:32
has a part too. And that's what I want to get
19:34
into is like. Sounds like she's actually a
19:35
great person she cares about. Her right, she cares and and so
19:38
you know, we'll get into the second part, but the first part
19:40
is like, yeah, I I can think of many people where I've gone in
19:45
and been like, man, that fucking guy has it all together.
19:48
I but also too when you get to know them, you're like, this is
19:51
bullshit yeah, like this is bullshit.
19:53
I can see right through it. You can feel the fake, right?
19:56
And it always goes back to, for me, the resentment thing is like
19:59
resentment drinking. It's like drinking poison and
20:01
hoping the other person dies. What's my part?
20:04
What's my part in this, right? And so when I'm sitting
20:07
somewhere and I'm, you know, whether it's in a meeting or, or
20:09
anywhere and I'm hearing someone bullshit and I can just feel the
20:12
fake, it's like, well, how do I change my perspective of it?
20:17
For one, this guy is a great lesson into what I don't want to
20:21
do right. And also too, at least he's
20:24
recovering or he's trying, you know what I mean?
20:27
He's not out there drinking. That's another thing that I can
20:29
look at. So what do you guys think about?
20:32
That well, I'll say this to this day, like right now in my
20:35
sobriety journey, ego is my biggest is the biggest thing I'm
20:39
struggling with enemy. Yeah.
20:40
I'm not struggling so much with the using of being clean, but
20:44
I'm very lucky because I have a good circle of people around me
20:47
and all my friends know me like I, I don't really hang out with
20:49
too many new people. The people that I am surrounding
20:51
myself with with, they know me pretty well, right?
20:53
So I'll use you for an example. If I'm come around you, which I
20:57
don't and pretend like everything is good.
20:58
But if I would say I do come around you and I say some stuff
21:01
that you know, you don't necessarily agree with, you're
21:03
going to call me out and you're going to say, hey, right.
21:05
And I have other friends the same way.
21:07
But right now for an example, I'll use is my job that I'm
21:10
going back to, right? I feel 100% going back to
21:13
mining. What which I did when I started
21:14
when I was 18, right? But when I was in mining, the
21:17
people that do know me, like my family, they're a little bit
21:19
worried because I was using drugs, right?
21:21
And I was surrounding myself with not so great people.
21:24
So there are people that are worried, but my ego is so high.
21:26
I'm like, have you not just watched what I've done for the
21:28
last six months? You know, I have a podcast, went
21:31
to rehab for three months. I'm living in Toronto.
21:33
Like you really think I'm going to use drugs now.
21:35
That's my ego though. That's 100% my ego, right?
21:37
And and it, it bothers me because like I say, like, I just
21:42
want to like point to all these things that I've been doing, but
21:44
that doesn't matter. It really doesn't matter, right?
21:46
And that's why at the end of the day, it bugs me at the time.
21:48
But I'm also very thankful I have those people in my life
21:50
that keep me in check, right? But yeah, I, I will say this, I
21:54
do go to, I know some fellowship programs and meetings and you
21:59
can tell not clearly, but sometimes more clear than
22:01
others, when someone shares and says something and they just
22:05
sound very, very fake. Where it's like it didn't like
22:09
like the like the reading says about like the mantras and the
22:11
way they talk and they sound so good on the outside.
22:15
But like, can life really be that great?
22:17
You know what I mean? And like, it can be great.
22:18
But as I said, I believe in the last podcast or the one before
22:21
that, I said I just wanted people to know, especially
22:23
people that know me personally that are watching this podcast
22:26
now. I have a lot of people reaching
22:27
out, right? And I just don't want them to
22:29
think like, okay, on this day. I stopped using drugs in the
22:32
last, you know, 6-7 months of my life have been perfect, perfect,
22:35
you know, Scott free. That's not at all what's been
22:36
going on. I mean, yeah, they've been
22:38
great. You know, I have a relationship
22:39
with my family. I'm clean, I haven't been using
22:42
drugs, I'm making new friends. Things are generally going
22:45
pretty good. But like there are things that
22:47
pop up every single day, multiple times a day that aren't
22:50
great. You know what I mean?
22:51
That aren't great at all. And I just, I, I'm vocal about
22:54
that, but it does bother me to a certain degree when I see, and
22:59
that's probably just my ego too, thinking, well, you know, this
23:01
guy sounds like an idiot. Why is he saying that?
23:03
You know, why doesn't he just be real and tell us how you really
23:05
feel, right? And, you know, I'm sure that
23:06
guy's going through something that he's deep down inside that
23:10
he doesn't want to put out there, right?
23:11
Because maybe he thinks people are going to judge him, right?
23:13
Because I know myself when I'm, when I'm feeling a certain way
23:15
about things, right? Like I don't like, I don't
23:18
always feel comfortable sharing how I really feel.
23:20
That's been something I struck with my entire life because I
23:22
don't want, you know, Jimmy over there to judge me, right?
23:26
But sometimes it's it's a lot easier said than done.
23:28
But I mean, I think for this person that sent us this, I
23:32
think that it sounds like you really care about this person.
23:35
Like, I think this person is really lucky to have you in
23:37
their life. But you think she's building?
23:39
Or is that meant though? Yeah, yeah, I think.
23:41
That's dangerous too, right? So from what you know from I
23:46
mean, it is, it is great to care about your fellow, right?
23:49
It's that's one of the promises, right?
23:53
But at the same time, I think that if he's staying sober, if
23:58
he's if he's doing what he needs to do and he's staying sober,
24:01
then that's good on him. She needs to do what she needs
24:06
to do in order to stay sober. What he's doing and how he's
24:10
doing. It is none of her business
24:13
ultimately, right. So I'm all about, you know, like
24:18
it's great that, you know, she, she reaches out and gives
24:22
feedback to the pod and stuff like that.
24:24
But my honest response is pray for a man.
24:28
Yeah. But I don't think there's
24:30
anything wrong with her maybe having this conversation with
24:33
him and being like, hey, like, is that like, is there anything
24:36
you really want to talk about? Like, you know what I mean?
24:37
Because I, I do under. I under.
24:39
I think what you're saying is 100% true as well.
24:41
If this keeping the guy sober, great.
24:43
You know what I mean? If you got to do 25 push ups in
24:46
a Puddle Of Mudd every day to stay sober, do it.
24:48
I don't care what people think. Yeah, Yeah.
24:49
But at the same time, I think that maybe this individual
24:55
thinks there's something wrong with her, with this guy or girl,
24:57
whoever it is, and she's concerned that, you know, maybe
25:01
that it'll get worse over time. I'm not too sure what the exact
25:04
scenario is, but I think that this individual should maybe
25:06
have a conversation before she builds A resentment, right?
25:09
Because it's easier to build resentments.
25:11
But at the same time, I do think what you said is very true.
25:13
If it's keeping this guy sober. If you got to go to a meeting
25:16
every single day and say my life is great, I love life and it's
25:19
gonna keep you sober, go ahead and at.
25:20
Least you're doing it. At least you're doing it.
25:22
Yeah, And so, and I always say this too, is like, just because
25:24
I'm not enjoying this person's experience doesn't mean
25:27
everybody else in the room isn't getting something very.
25:29
True. You know what I mean?
25:30
I've been so many times. I've been like, that was
25:32
terrible. I fucking hated that.
25:34
Oh my God, I can't believe he said this again.
25:36
And then the person beside me is like, that was the best fucking
25:38
talk I've ever heard in my life. They'll go up to them and be
25:40
like, hey, man, thanks for. Yeah.
25:42
You saved my life today. Something pretty interesting
25:45
actually, his name is Johnny C2. Johnny C is one of my best
25:48
friends in recovery. And I've been, there was going
25:51
through a period where I was going to meetings and I was
25:53
hearing lots of like trauma dumping, lots of negativity to
25:56
the point where I was almost, I was like shelled away from
25:59
sharing about my positive life because life is going pretty
26:02
good. You felt bad.
26:03
Yeah. And I felt like, I don't, I feel
26:04
bad saying my life is good because I don't want these
26:07
people to be like, you know, fuck you, your life, You know,
26:09
my life isn't good. As soon as I called my buddy
26:11
Johnny C and he said to me, he said, you know, you should not,
26:14
you should not shy away from sharing.
26:15
I said, you should share how good it is because that's going
26:18
to encourage people to keep coming back because they maybe
26:20
they want that, right? But at the same time, I do go to
26:24
and when I do share, I genuinely try to keep it pretty positive,
26:27
right? But you know, sometimes I'll
26:29
like I just said the other night I cared at a fellowship meeting.
26:32
I said, I care too much about what people think, right?
26:34
I said that out there and and you know, I didn't say Oh well,
26:37
like my life is shit, but I said sometimes this is something I'm
26:40
struggling with. Sometimes I care too much about
26:41
what people think, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right?
26:43
But I do understand. I go to meetings all the time
26:45
and I hear people. So for that, for, you know,
26:48
going back, I think my response to the individual that sent in
26:52
this message would be just to like take a step back, pray for
26:57
your friend, right? Check on your own recoveries,
26:59
you know, worry about your own recovery and you know God's got
27:04
a plan. Right, yeah.
27:05
And, and who's to say that this individual is not going to
27:07
change? Like maybe he needs to go
27:09
through this, Yeah, this ego deflation process.
27:12
And I guarantee you there will be a person that will go up to
27:15
him and be like, hey, you need to shut the fuck up because
27:17
that's happened to people that I know.
27:19
There's people like that that will go and be like, you're not
27:22
doing any good, you know, or, or, you know, you need to check
27:25
yourself, right? Like, and maybe he'll hear that
27:27
one day and change. You know, you never know, right?
27:30
I think it's important to know. I should have probably said this
27:31
before, but I was looking up ego before I came in here because I
27:35
I'm obsessed with this idea of ego deflation.
27:37
I think it's extremely important.
27:39
You know, one of the opposites of ego to me today is humility,
27:42
right? Is being teachable, right?
27:45
Going into every situation and not thinking, you know, the
27:47
biggest, the biggest feeder and fuel of ego for me today is I'm
27:53
right. Yeah, but I'm right.
27:55
Yeah. But those are like, those are so
27:57
dangerous, right? When you're telling, when I'm,
27:59
you know, when I'm taking criticism or someone's trying to
28:01
help me and I'm like, yeah, yeah.
28:04
Well, step one, right? Step one is we got to admit we
28:06
are powerless. We need help.
28:08
We cannot do this on our own. Ego is I got this.
28:12
Yeah, I got this. There's another one exactly.
28:14
Right. So if you it's, it's back into
28:18
yourself, centered selfish self, self will lens right control,
28:24
control this control. Idea.
28:26
Humility for me, humility has been a massive part for me.
28:30
Like being able to get comfortable in the uncomfortable
28:35
has been a massive, massive part of my last 11 1/2 months.
28:39
And that comes in conversations with loved ones at the, like
28:46
some of my employees, you know, it's just doing, it's part of
28:51
what I would call doing the work, right?
28:53
Yeah, and I love that it's you know, and I, I, I wanted to
28:58
mention too, is like, I was looking up ego and you know,
29:01
there's a lot of definitions about it, but I one of the, you
29:04
know, I've this guy Ryan Holiday writes a lot of books on
29:06
stoicism and he talks about ego as the enemy.
29:08
He has a book called Ego as the Enemy, but he he calls the ego
29:12
as like a, a false or inflated, I'm paraphrasing this sense of
29:17
self, like a false inflated sense of self where, you know, I
29:20
think I'm more important than I am or I have control, like we
29:24
said, or I'm different. You know I'm not.
29:26
Rules don't apply to me. Yeah, I'm different, you know, I
29:29
And that's a dangerous thing too.
29:30
We all come in here. Yeah, but you're not as bad as I
29:32
was. Yeah, but you never did, you
29:35
know, heroin. So you don't get it.
29:36
You know, it's like, no, it's all the same shit, man.
29:38
We use drugs. A lot of us use drugs for the
29:41
same reason. Is to either change.
29:43
For me it's to change my inner state.
29:46
It's simple as that. I use external things to change
29:49
my inner state right so. And I think ego is such an
29:53
important thing to recovery because I think a lot of people
29:55
that are in recovery, especially after they get a few months
29:57
under their belt, their ego just goes because they just went from
30:00
being these empty, shallow human beings that everyone was so
30:03
disappointed. And then especially at the
30:05
beginning of your recovery, are your family so proud of you,
30:08
Your friends are so proud of you.
30:09
You're starting to get some things back in your life.
30:10
So you just feel like you are on top of the world, right?
30:13
I know I did. And I, I, I, I think that's a
30:15
huge part of the reason as to why my ego got so high.
30:19
But because I remember I had this conversation with my father
30:22
in the vehicle and when he picked me up from rehab, we were
30:24
driving to my family's house and we had about an hour drive.
30:27
And I was like, I had so much humility when I was in rehab,
30:32
right? Because I love to help people in
30:34
there have conversations. And I'd really opened up to my
30:37
parents about that in the view crowd.
30:38
I'm like, you know, I really liked the feeling of helping
30:40
someone when I was in there. I felt so much nicer than
30:42
putting someone down. Like I've done my whole life.
30:43
I've always been an arrogant person.
30:45
And I remember my my father saying this to me.
30:47
He's like, it's be very easy to lose that humility being out
30:51
here than it would be in there, right?
30:53
And that's such a good point because like, since the since
30:57
I've been out of rehab now, like I've gotten my jobs back, I've,
31:00
you know, friends hanging around, women going out and
31:03
doing things. And I've lost a lot of my
31:04
humility, right? And it's so easy to do that
31:06
without even trying. It's so easy.
31:09
And my my experience and it's and it's still to this day is
31:14
that people in my life, they trust me currently to be an
31:19
alcoholic and an addict. So when when that red carpet,
31:26
kind of like me expecting the red carpet to be laid out
31:29
because I went to treatment, that wasn't my experience.
31:32
But sometimes it hurts because you know on the inside how you
31:39
feel and how different you feel. But the people that love you and
31:42
that you've hurt the most, they still trust you to be especially
31:46
I'm only I'm not even a year right?
31:48
They're still healing themselves.
31:50
Yeah, they still have to do their own healing.
31:52
Yeah, right. That's a huge part of my life
31:54
right now. There are people in my life that
31:56
I love dearly that are need to heal themselves.
31:59
And everyone's doing the like. At the end of the day, the
32:03
people that you've hurt, in order to heal, they need to do
32:07
what's best for them. Has nothing to do with me.
32:11
And that hurts. Yeah, that's tough.
32:13
That's tough. Because we want to control and
32:14
speed up the process. Right.
32:16
Like I'm getting better. Why can't you get better?
32:17
Yeah. But at the same time, dude, at
32:19
the end of the day, we're addicts and Alcoholics.
32:21
Yeah, and I don't know about you guys, but I could speak for
32:24
myself. I put a lot of people through
32:25
hell. Drag them through the mud.
32:26
I would say that. If you were to look at my 2025,
32:29
all the things that have happened to me in 2025 S like,
32:32
you know, 6-6 months and on in in in recovery.
32:37
I have every reason to like go back out and use like 2025 has
32:42
been a tough year for me, but it's been humbling.
32:46
And in that in that pain is where the growth happens, right?
32:52
So. Pain is the touchstone of
32:55
spiritual development, right? 100% You mentioned God and I
32:59
want to make sure that we don't really talk about God A.
33:02
Lot. No, we don't.
33:02
I want to get this out too. If that word bothers you, like
33:05
the listener, that's OK. You know what I mean?
33:08
I want to very clearly reiterate this, that for me, spirituality
33:15
is not religion. It's not the same thing.
33:17
It's very different, right? Spirituality for me is the
33:21
answer to ego, which is what I really wanted to get into.
33:26
It's I don't have the right answer and that's OK.
33:29
And I'm gonna look to this God, this higher power that we talk
33:33
about as the guiding force, the inner teacher right first
33:38
thought wrong. I was taught in recovery, but
33:41
it's like a lot of people get really hung up on this God word
33:44
because it's linked back to this judeo-christian like guy in the
33:48
sky. And I'm happy you brought it up
33:50
because that's the answer to my ego today is like, you know, one
33:54
of my favorite acronyms is like God, sorry, ego is edging God
33:59
out, right? Ego edging God out.
34:02
I love that. It's like, no, no, no, never got
34:04
this today. You know, whatever you call your
34:07
higher power, could be the universe, it could be group of
34:10
drunks, as people say, great outdoors.
34:12
This kind of guiding force. It, it is.
34:15
It was and continues to be the most important thing in my life
34:19
today. Because at the end of the day,
34:21
you're not always going to be there for me.
34:23
You're not always going to be there for me.
34:24
My parents, my wife, they're not going to be there for at the end
34:27
of the day, I'm stuck with, do I pick up this bag of cocaine or
34:32
this drink or whatever, or do I not?
34:34
And nobody can make me do either one.
34:37
I'm the only one. But I shouldn't even say that.
34:40
I have to look to this like power of like, maybe I shouldn't
34:45
do it this way. Maybe I should pause and ask for
34:48
the right answer. And that's where prayer
34:50
meditation comes in, right? It's like I'm not praying to
34:53
this guy in the sky. When I pray, it's basically I'm
34:55
just saying, hey, guide me through this.
34:58
I need help. I don't know what I'm doing.
35:00
Help show me the next right thing.
35:03
And it's I don't expect it to like happen, you know, as a
35:06
miracle or anything like that. But what it does for me on a
35:09
scientific level, and I'm not an expert again, but it puts me in
35:12
this mindset of like trying to change and and it opens my mind
35:15
to like other possibilities. And then what I find happens and
35:18
I'll I'll finish my thought with this.
35:20
What I find happens is people, God for me speaks through people
35:24
and people will show up in my life and like have an answer to
35:26
my problem. If I'm listening, right, the
35:28
answers are always out there. They're they're, they're in
35:31
here, but I have to listen to them and notice them, right?
35:33
Right. And, and so like a little like
35:36
when I talk about my story, you know, when my, I lost my father
35:40
at the age of 22, and that's when I turned my back on
35:43
anything bigger than myself, That's when I totally took over
35:46
my own life. And look where it got me right
35:50
at the age of 22, I turned my back on spirituality.
35:54
I turned my back on. I was raised Roman Catholic and
36:00
I had that mentality of like, if there is something out there
36:03
that's bigger, how can you put me through this?
36:05
How can you have taken my like my dad was like, you know,
36:11
Superman in a, with a, you know, a little Italian hat and a
36:15
mustache and a, you know, he was, he was my, he was my
36:18
Superman, but hero. Yeah.
36:20
And at the end of the and at the end of the day, like, I let that
36:25
one little thought. I let that control and spiral me
36:30
out of control. You hear that so much you I've
36:33
heard lots of people say that, right?
36:34
Like about the whole God thing. It's like, well if God is real,
36:38
why they let is? Why is this happening to me?
36:41
So the cool part about sobriety is that I can now look back on
36:46
certain things that have happened since I was 22 and I
36:49
have awareness which you can't have, which I didn't have when I
36:54
was drunk and, and, and high. I have the awareness to now see
37:00
that even after the age of 22, God was with me every single day
37:04
the whole time. Certain things have happened in
37:07
my life over the course of the last 20 years that I now have
37:11
the awareness to say that he's been with me.
37:13
He never, he never turned his back on me, even though I chose
37:18
to turn my back. On I ran away from.
37:20
From I'm going to say this because like I don't try and
37:23
overthink the situation. I don't try and listen to too
37:26
many things, but I just try and keep it real simple because the
37:28
second I start breaking it down and analyzing it too much,
37:31
that's when I'm going to. Think, well, you become this
37:32
detective with like all the yarn and, you know, figuring out the
37:35
murder. Yeah, to.
37:36
Be honest. Like, I don't really.
37:37
I don't really care what works for someone else.
37:39
I'll tell you what works for me. I remember when I was when I was
37:41
in treatment, I heard so many people come in with sobriety and
37:45
come tell us their story. Every single person, every
37:47
single person talked about God. And I just thought to myself,
37:50
like, now what if Caleb, you actually don't know everything?
37:53
And what if there is someone that's a little bit greater than
37:56
you are? What, just what if maybe if you
37:57
just tried it, right? And I just, I remember I, I took
38:00
that thought and I ran with it and I started praying and, and
38:03
the spirituality, I look, I look.
38:05
The squashing of your ego. Right now, that's the squashing
38:07
of my ego, right? Because I mean, the type of
38:09
person I was before I went into treatment and recovery, if you
38:12
had ever told me I would have been praying to something
38:14
greater than myself, I would have, I wouldn't even entertain
38:16
the thought, right? But The thing is, is because
38:18
like truthfully guys, I and I still struggle with it to this
38:21
very day, being sober, like my arrogancy and my attitude, like
38:24
it's just chip on my shoulder, right?
38:26
Like I, it's, it's something I struggle with.
38:28
But that thought that's that, you know, the spirituality has
38:31
really helped me. And I remember Shadow Dave W, he
38:34
told me this. He said religion is for people
38:36
who don't want to go to hell and spirituality is for people
38:39
who've been to hell. He said.
38:41
I was like, wow. Right.
38:42
And don't want to go back. And don't want to go back.
38:44
And you know, I, I listen to, I listen to lots of other podcasts
38:48
and one of my favorites is Joe Rogan.
38:49
He talks about spirituality and just there's something great
38:51
about being connected with something and truly believing in
38:54
something, right? And that's why I said at the
38:57
beginning, if I don't try and depict it too much or analyze it
38:59
too much or, or think about what other people are believing in,
39:02
because then then I start to overthink and I'm like, OK, this
39:04
is all BSI, just I know what works for me, right?
39:07
And like I said, I don't know if his name is God.
39:08
I call him God. I don't know if he's white,
39:11
black, yellow, red. I don't know if he's 7 feet tall
39:13
or five feet tall. I don't know.
39:14
To be honest, it doesn't really mean anything to me.
39:16
I'm just telling you that that's how I stay connected every day.
39:18
And there's just some type, it kind of goes back to the
39:21
humility part, right? It brings humility in my life to
39:23
just being like, okay. I tossed my hands up.
39:25
Wave the white flag. I waved the white flag.
39:27
I don't know everything. Help me.
39:29
And the reason that I know, I truly believe, and this is
39:31
something that's kind of funny to me, is I remember when I was,
39:34
this has happened also in treatment.
39:35
There was a situation going on right where I knew I should have
39:38
been doing something, but I was doing it anyways because my
39:41
heart was telling me to do it. And I remember people were
39:44
telling me to pray about it. I was like too scared to pray
39:46
about it because they said the prayer that I used to say was
39:49
just guide me, give me whatever guidance, whatever you think is
39:51
right, you know, make me do it. And I was too scared to say that
39:55
because I knew the right thing. I knew the right thing wasn't
39:58
what I wanted to do. So I wouldn't pray.
40:01
I'd be like, no, if I ask him to, to, to make me do the right
40:04
thing, then I'm not going to do what I want.
40:05
So that's how I know, OK, maybe you do believe, right?
40:07
That's just the the the strength of spirituality in my life
40:10
today. And that's why I say inner
40:12
teacher. I heard that from somebody
40:13
because it's, it's like true. It's it's in there somewhere,
40:16
right? You know, when you're doing
40:17
something wrong, you, it just feels especially now, Yeah.
40:22
The more you stay sober. My God consciousness now is
40:25
pretty italic, bold, underlined. Like I know that I feel today
40:34
that, you know, I have that God consciousness that's I feel
40:39
blessed to know that I'm trying to do the best that I can.
40:43
Yeah, that's all I could do, right?
40:45
I it's I I'm going to butcher this quote, but I was in in Utah
40:49
in my treatment center and on the wall.
40:51
It said I trust the process because I know the author right?
40:59
And it's like it's that blind faith of whatever happens, I'm
41:04
going to be OK. And every single piece of
41:07
adversity I've ever been through my life, sober or in active
41:12
addiction, I've been OK. At the end I thought I was going
41:15
to die. And if you're not OK, it's
41:16
because the story's not over. Yeah.
41:18
Yeah, there you go. You said it perfectly.
41:20
I love the life is lived forward and understood reverse in
41:23
reverse. You look back now and you're
41:25
like, oh, it makes sense now you.
41:27
Know so like a lot like you touched on before so when I went
41:30
into treatment and I started to like have that I was a little
41:35
bit of clean time, you know a day a week a month everyone that
41:40
had like time not so much quality time, but anyone who had
41:45
time what did they do what did they do?
41:48
They, they joined a Home group, right?
41:53
They did the steps and they gave it back and service, right.
42:00
And so and so that were whatever their higher power is in my
42:05
recovery. It's God.
42:07
But what if, if people were struggling with that, I'd, I
42:11
would just tell them I'm like, try my creator, like try using
42:16
the word creator. You know, something, that
42:19
something else that's not you. And man, this is my whole life,
42:27
my whole life. I never listened to anybody,
42:31
right? I always, I always, always,
42:34
always thought that I knew best and I got into treatment and
42:40
someone told me to, you know, start journaling.
42:44
So I started journaling. Someone told me to hey, pick up
42:46
this book and read something, read this.
42:49
And I did that. All these people that have been
42:53
through the program, you know, they just, they get these little
42:59
like bits of, of information and everything I've done has led me
43:05
up to treatment, which and pain. Now it's time to listen.
43:09
Yeah. And that's I think the biggest
43:11
part of, of, of you know why I can say that relapse today isn't
43:16
a part of my story. It's because I've been able to
43:18
listen. Yeah, I love that.
43:19
And you both mentioned this that I love too.
43:21
And I said this the other day as well.
43:23
It's like you hear all these people talking and you're like,
43:26
no, no, but I, I have the answer.
43:27
I'm, I'm right, which I said earlier today, so all you needed
43:32
and all I needed to was that little window of willingness to
43:35
be like, huh, maybe I'm wrong. Yeah, maybe, maybe all these
43:40
people aren't wrong. Maybe they're right.
43:44
And maybe I'm the one that's wrong.
43:46
And in that moment, it's like, yeah, your ego just shatters,
43:48
right? But then the next day it comes
43:50
back because, you know, you want, you want things your way.
43:53
And that guy's not driving the way that I want him to drive,
43:55
right? And he just cut me off.
43:57
And, you know, all these these things that happen that kind of
44:01
bring it back, right? I want to touch on this.
44:03
This is jumping out at me, but I love this.
44:05
This is like red flags of ego and recovery.
44:07
And we kind of talked about this.
44:08
But, you know, if these things come up in my life, it's time to
44:11
pause and be like, what's this about?
44:12
Right? Reluctance to apologize or take
44:14
responsibility. Yeah, been there.
44:16
Breaking commitments that don't serve the ego.
44:19
So like, not doing things because I'm not going to benefit
44:22
from them. That's the opposite of service
44:23
in my opinion, is like only showing up to things where I'm
44:26
going to benefit somehow financially, I'm morally, you
44:29
know, I'm going to get recognition, something like
44:32
that, alienating people who have healthy boundaries, right?
44:35
So fuck that guy, you know, when meanwhile, they're just trying
44:38
to create a boundary, right? And then This is why I love
44:42
talking more than listening in meetings or or in life, right?
44:46
If I'm talking a lot, even on this podcast, sometimes when I
44:49
catch myself talking too much, I'm like, yeah, maybe I should
44:51
be quiet and listen to another perspective, right?
44:54
And you know, one more thing is the spirituality, the God thing
44:58
for me too is just a little shift in perspective sometimes,
45:02
right? Where it's like, hey, you're
45:03
looking at the glass half empty all the time maybe and you kind
45:08
of just maybe it's half full, right?
45:11
Maybe it's half full, right? And it's just that window of
45:14
shifting perspective, you know? I always like to think of this
45:19
right. It's like active, active
45:22
addiction. You're on one side, you're on
45:24
one side of a door, right? And freedom is on the other side
45:29
of the door. So like everything you do and
45:34
you know, going, maybe going to treatment is like, you know, or
45:38
Step 1, you know, admitting you were powerless.
45:42
It's putting your hand on the knob and then you know, you got
45:45
to be able to start to believe in something bigger than
45:48
yourself and then doing all the work is what's going to get you
45:52
to open the door and walk through it.
45:54
One step closer every. Time one step closer every time.
45:57
Jay talks about, sorry, depositing or withdrawing into
46:01
your spiritual bank account, right?
46:03
So I cut someone off in traffic. I just withdrew from my
46:05
spiritual bank account. I hang out with using friends,
46:07
just withdrew from my spiritual bank account.
46:09
I go into a recovery fellowship and I, I ask someone how they're
46:12
doing and actually listen. Depositing into my spiritual
46:15
bank account. It's like, did I deposit more or
46:18
am I in the negative today? I can ask myself at the end of
46:21
the day, right? I love that.
46:32
I think too, the other thing that I loved everything we
46:36
talked about, but you mentioned what's my part in this?
46:41
We talked about that from this this girl's perspective, right?
46:44
I can't, I, I wanted to, I can't control what other people do or
46:48
say ever. I've tried many times.
46:50
I've tried, I've tried to control a lot of things in my
46:52
life and that's ego. Again, it's you're not living
46:55
according to my script. It's like the actor in the play
46:57
that's trying to be the director, trying to be the
46:59
fucking janitor, trying to be every No, you're not doing it
47:02
right. You're not doing it and taking
47:03
everyone's job, right? My job today is to be an agent
47:09
of my higher power. That's it.
47:11
That's a vessel. I call it a vessel.
47:12
Yeah, I'm, you know, an like an employee almost, right.
47:16
I'm not, you know, to I, I was taught by, by a mentor of mine
47:21
to do God, you know, higher power to do God's work, not his
47:25
job. It's as simple as that, right?
47:28
Just do the daily work that's in front of me and leave the
47:30
outcomes up to the universe to to the higher power, to God.
47:33
Leave the outcomes because I tried to control outcomes my
47:36
entire life, you know? You know the, the I I honestly
47:40
struggle with one of my one of my when I when I do pray and
47:44
meditate, one of the the constants in my prayer morning
47:48
and night is I ask God if I'm doing this right, Am I doing
47:53
this right? Am I account?
47:58
Am I being held? Am I holding myself accountable?
48:01
Am I living in his will? You know, and then I can't
48:08
really, I can't really explain it, but at at the same time, I
48:13
catch myself when I'm not right and be having that awareness,
48:17
being able to have that awareness to be able to take a
48:20
step back. There's times where I'll be in
48:23
my like at work where I'm just like, yo, I need 5 minutes.
48:26
I'll go sit in my car, turn the radio off and I'll just like 5
48:31
minutes. I need 5 minutes alone just to
48:33
give myself that spiritual reset, you know, that's how
48:36
simple of a person I am. I need to only, I, I need to
48:40
almost do this in like minute by minute, 5 minute, 10 minute,
48:45
hour when I can, you know? See, it's for me like that.
48:49
I like, that's how that's your that's your coping mechanism,
48:51
right? For me, I have like my coping
48:54
mechanism. Let's say something's bothering
48:56
me throughout the day. I call someone and I got about
49:00
like four or five people that I'll call, right?
49:02
And unfortunately, sometimes they don't tell me what I want
49:05
to hear. You know, sometimes they'll tell
49:07
me I'm wrong or sometimes they'll be like, no, what?
49:09
You're actually right. That guy's, you know, he's.
49:11
He's out of line. He's out of line, right?
49:13
But I find that helps me so much because it goes back to like my
49:16
will and my power. I did never used to do that when
49:18
something would arise in my my day, I would deal with it how
49:21
exactly how I thought I should deal with it, right?
49:24
But now I think that's one of the things that helps me most is
49:27
the people like my circle of people.
49:29
Yeah, your fellowship. My fellowship, right?
49:30
Yeah, and people that I've met that I've just become really
49:33
important players in my life now that I'll call them and I'll be
49:37
like, Anthony can attest to this.
49:38
I probably call this guy so much you probably thinks about
49:40
blocking my phone. I call them all the time, only
49:43
once, no right? And yeah, sometimes, and it's
49:47
still like, it's still sometimes I'm like, fuck, this is kind of
49:50
like, I almost feel embarrassed to talk about this.
49:52
You know, I don't even what's he going to think like?
49:54
And this is my one of my best friends.
49:55
You're right. And sometimes I'm like, oh man,
49:56
what's he going to think if I ask him about this?
49:58
But you know what, who cares? Because after I talk and I get
50:00
get that out there, he tells me back whatever he thinks.
50:03
And I bounce a couple ideas off of him and then I call another
50:05
person. And at the end of the day, you.
50:07
Find the solution. I find the solution through
50:09
through my peers, right? Yeah, that's one of the greatest
50:11
things in recovery for me because I never, ever, ever,
50:13
ever had that. Ever.
50:14
Before is, is that not praying though?
50:16
Like it's up your it's a power greater than yourself.
50:19
Your circle of people is a power greater than yourself.
50:22
That's another way to, you know what I mean?
50:23
It's not exactly praying, but it's another form of like not
50:27
acting on ego. So I love that, Yeah.
50:30
And trust me, like I said, that's probably the the biggest
50:32
thing I struggle with is my ego. Yeah, 100%.
50:35
That's that's a very cool message that.
50:37
Yeah, I really, yeah, I appreciate that.
50:39
Thank you. And I, I wanna say this like any
50:41
more messages that you can shout out to us or do you want us even
50:45
just a topic you want us to talk about?
50:47
Cuz I know that this was big in your life and it affects a lot
50:51
of people, right? So hopefully something we said
50:54
here can help one person. I always try to think like that,
50:56
and my ego always, like, on the way down here, I'm like, oh,
51:00
man, I hope this episode blows up.
51:02
Yeah. And it's just like, I just want
51:04
to look cool. And I want to mention too, to
51:06
the people watching, I appreciate and I know Anthony
51:08
appreciates so much all the positive messages I've gotten so
51:11
many of them. Every time a video goes out, I
51:13
get so many messages from from especially from like my
51:17
hometown. And like they never get old.
51:19
And sometimes I'm not the greatest at responding to all of
51:22
my try, but like it does mean so much.
51:24
And it's it's crazy about the like some of them aren't even
51:27
addicts, but some of the things we talk about on this podcast
51:29
are they're like, wow, I actually feel that way sometimes
51:32
too. Or I know someone who feels.
51:33
Mental health, man. Mental health, right?
51:35
And I'm someone just to get this out there, I'm someone who,
51:38
like, shunned on mental health Before I went to treatment and
51:41
got help, I thought mental health was fake.
51:43
You're just being a bitch. Denial.
51:44
Yeah, man up. That's what I thought right
51:46
until I realized like, no, like, you struggle with mental health,
51:49
right? Every day.
51:50
Every single day. So.
51:51
Let's let's end with this, Johnny, what what would you say
51:58
to the person struggling in self will right now?
52:02
Or even, you know, something that helps you get out of self
52:05
will? I know we talked a lot about it,
52:06
but one final thought, maybe I. Think for I've learned that our
52:17
fellows who aren't in active addiction or, or even that might
52:22
be in in recovery or or in active addition, they're sick
52:26
people too. So we're able to understand and
52:30
know that as long as we try to do our best to live in God's
52:35
will and not our own, that we can, we can pray for those
52:43
people that are still trying to figure it out on their own.
52:47
And just I can trust that God's got a plan for them.
52:50
Yeah, love that. Yeah.
52:52
So that's what honestly, that's where my recovery is, is
52:56
simplify to simplify to at this point.
52:58
It's just that cuz there's, there's one of these guys in my
53:02
in every home. Group.
53:03
Yeah, everywhere. In every Home group, even the
53:05
world. Right.
53:06
And so and so you can spot them. You spot them right away.
53:11
But to, to our role is to be able to bring anyone we can
53:18
through an active service, bring anyone clan closer to their
53:20
higher power and pray for them. And that's as simple as I can
53:26
put it. Yeah.
53:26
Thanks so much, Johnny. I appreciate that.
53:28
Yeah, I know when I when I got the when I got the the invite to
53:32
do this and it was just the way that our outside world's
53:35
connected and stuff like that. I was like, you know what this
53:37
is, I'll be honest with you about a month ago, the thought
53:43
of actually probably right around the time that we met, the
53:46
thought of not going public with my recovery, but at the same
53:52
time doing a little bit more than meetings or or sponsoring
53:56
or, you know, the thought of being able to go out there and
53:58
just try to if we if this one episode helps one person,
54:02
that's. What he says all the.
54:03
Time we did our job, yeah. So, you know, I'm stepping
54:06
outside of my comfort zone. I'm sure there's going to be
54:09
people that have no idea about my recovery that are going to be
54:11
that are going to watch this episode.
54:13
And. And TuneIn and you know, I, I'm
54:17
a grateful alcoholic, an addict, because everything that's
54:21
happened in my life up to this point has led me to where I am
54:24
today and I wouldn't change it for anything.
54:28
Thanks for listening. Please help us grow the channel
54:31
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54:34
The discussions and stories shared on this podcast are for
54:37
informational and motivational purposes only.
54:39
This content is not a substitute for professional medical advice,
54:43
addiction treatment, or therapy. If you or someone you know is
54:46
struggling with addiction, please consult A licensed
54:49
physician, addiction specialist or mental health professional.
54:53
You are no longer alone.