Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Miss Bergbo (Cam) and Leee McEnemememememy about their choice of Enlightenment (2/4)

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Talks to Miss Bergbo (Cam) and Leee McEnemememememy about their choice of Enlightenment (2/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:56
Music. Hello and welcome to Hamster
1:06
with a Blood Pen knife at the Doctor Who Watch Along podcast.
1:11
And tonight we're watching Enlightenment.
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We're up to Part 2 and I am here with my esteemed colleagues of
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the evening. Firstly, a man whose house we
1:23
are lovingly sat in tonight, Mr. Joe Fort.
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Hello Miss Bobo. Hello.
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How lovely to be dominated by you today.
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Well, it's it's, it's a special rate for friends.
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How much? Double at weekends.
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Double at weekends. Hang on, I'm just going to pour
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you a cup of tea. Hang on, I'll try it for you.
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Oh, it tastes of Bentons fingers.
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That's so niche I don't know if anyone will get it.
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Setting the tone for the episodes.
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But Benton's Fingers is, funnily enough, a craft ale drank by my
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other colleague for this evening for the Scots and my consistent
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compadre on the Polish Box YouTube show, it's Lee Mcmenamy.
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I thought Benton's Fingers was an early Genesis album.
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Oh, really? I thought that would get a
2:24
sworn. Now it's got a very sort of
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progy. It's probably finished a bit
2:26
there, so. I thought it's sort of like.
2:29
About his sticky fingers, it would be.
2:31
It would be a double vinyl gatefold.
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Absolutely the full regalia for that one flip.
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Solos their works. Can you imagine that?
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And years later, it's like, you know, Genesis reunite to play
2:44
Benton's Fingers Live. From start to finish, the game
2:49
lasts 5 1/2 hours. One day is Ella White.
2:54
Be careful now. The showstopper is going to be,
2:56
you know, fucking politicians. I'm going after all the
3:00
paedophiles. Yeah, you know, imagine.
3:03
Oh boy, oh boy. I heard this bones crack.
3:07
He was like a father to me. Yeah.
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Camper took me under his wing. But don't talk about my actual
3:15
father. Your egg.
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Egg and chips Haido. There you go.
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Nice, wonderful, nice. Oh, you know what I said to you
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to to make up a question for us? Actually, I've got a very small
3:28
question, if I may. It's only a tiny one, but I need
3:31
an answer. Yeah.
3:32
Lee, why have you stolen so many ES and Ms. for your surname?
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Every time I put out a podcast with you on, I have to check the
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spelling of your name. There's there's 2 words in
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English language that you have to remember how to stop.
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You know, You know what we type on a regular basis?
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One is Lee's surname that you have to kind of remember where
3:52
it stopped. The other one's the word banana.
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It's true because I put Oh no, that's too many.
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Do you know what it's? Very easy to get carried away
4:01
when you spill banana and go banana.
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It's very easy for you to sit here and mock my surname, but
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see, come today when you're on countdown and that conundrum
4:10
comes up. Oh yeah, just a little bit.
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Pick up a constant. Yeah, another constant.
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Another constant. Jealous only because I've only
4:19
got 7 letters in my name. Joe Ford.
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There's no boring fucking name you've ever heard.
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But it's concise to the point mine goes on for hours.
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Is he not? Is he not short for Joseph or
4:30
anything? No, you have Little Joe from
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Bonanza. You ever watched Bonanza?
4:34
Michael Landon? Yeah, yeah, my mum had the hots
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for him a lot, so she named me. Oh, someone she had the hots
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for. I mean, there's a dodgy
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relationship happening there between me and my mother, aren't
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there? It's.
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Mental, I wonder. I had that guy.
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Good grief. Because I get, you know, I've,
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I've got like, you know, 4 names and a number.
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That's what I. But you know those songs, right?
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And I'm watching Top of the Pops at the moment.
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It's somewhere in sort of 98. Yeah.
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Actually, we'll be able to find a link to enlightenment here
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because Lee John from imaginations in this and he's
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hang on Top of the Pops. I'm actually, you know, those
5:09
sort of mid songs where they don't make a lot of effort with
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the lyrics. You could probably do something
5:13
with Lee's name, couldn't you? McKenna Me no it.
5:19
Was a lesson or nearly hurt for ABBA?
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You've been. Immorse, largely.
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I'm trying to make up a song now.
5:28
Yeah, singing you. There's holograms on the stage
5:30
as we. Speak.
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Come on me, Come on me. Know that Joe has actually sung
5:34
my name and Phil that it does seem like some sort of early age
5:36
Univision entry from Denmark, doesn't it?
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It's like it's like this. It's I think there's another
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word right, where there's lots of two of the same letter, but
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Banana and MC Enemy are definitely the two most
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difficult ones that are there to stop.
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Yeah. Someone sat there when they,
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when they were naming like fruit, someone like sat there
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and decided to call that a banana.
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That's what always disturbs me slightly.
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They're like going, you know, Shug, do you want to maybe stop
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spilling that word? Nah, you just call it, just call
6:08
it a banana banana. And like, no, no, no, we need to
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call it banana banana. No, no, no no no.
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Like shug it to shorten up big enemy.
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Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo. Doo.
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You know, it seems very odd for me to bring this up given I
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asked the question about your surname, but what this has to do
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with enlightenment I have got no idea.
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Absolutely, that's what. Where did we leave off?
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I can't even remember. Oh, of course I can remember.
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The spaceships flying in space. Yes, yes, that's generally where
6:45
you find them, isn't it? Aren't ships, they're.
6:49
Space ships What? What peculiar sequence of events
6:53
could have occurred to make Edwardian sailing ships fly in
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space? Lee, give us your best theory.
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Drugs, copies and mess of drugs. We've also established that
7:04
Tegan's on quite a lot in a series.
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So, you know, I think the whole thing's a hallucination on
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Tegan's heart. What the Oh, she could have had
7:11
a Crossroads Star moment in Resurrection of the Darlings,
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couldn't she? She's bleeping stuff for a
7:16
supermarket. I didn't know my mind could go
7:19
that dark murdering that poor guy with a metal detector.
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Doctor Who's Antal to Patrick Duffy, Janet Fielding.
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She woke up in the shower one day.
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It was all a dream. Cameron steamships in space.
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I mean, how do you imagine that's occurred?
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It's it's. Difficult to get away from the
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the massive intake of drugs certainly.
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Maybe a few sherbet dip dubs have been passed around.
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Is that the ones with the red lollies in them?
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Yeah, I was always more of AI, was always more of a fan, Joe of
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of a double dip. Oh I I know a dip dab you mean.
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A dip dab. That was it, That was it.
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It was the one with the actual Kenley biscuit thing in.
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It, and bear in mind I'm from Crawley right?
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So heroin was doing the rounds. Fuck heroin.
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I would much rather have a sherbet dab.
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Yeah, it's cheaper as well. And can you even roll up the
8:15
packet and just go straight from this north?
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Yeah. Now, now, we've covered you know
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Lee's name, Top of the Pops Confectionery.
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Should you now watch Episode 2? I think we've watched it, yeah.
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Let's go, OK, I mean. I'm having so much fun with you
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guys, I don't really give a shit about a lot at this.
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Point. But I suppose we should watch
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it. OK, well, someone count us in.
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Oh, no one. Coming in what we doing from 5.
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No, I mean, we're having to shut up for hours.
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The second someone's got to do something, we all shut up.
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Do you? Want me?
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Do you want me coming from 5? Oh yes please.
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Right, 54321. Are you seeing stars, Cameron?
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I'm seeing stars. Great.
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Well, you've taken drugs tonight as well.
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And a helpful subtle that says Doctor Who theme.
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That's good. We can all play in our heads.
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What popularly does the rounds in Scotland?
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Sort of drugs life. If you give me 10 minutes I can
9:20
nip over to Murrayfield because I'm guaranteed as Lords tonight.
9:24
Murrayfield. Is that sort of like Camden
9:27
Lock? Oasis are playing there as we
9:31
speak. Oh.
9:32
OK. I'm voting a bit of a fair
9:33
amount of sherbet dabs that are going around the rooms today.
9:36
Wonderful. Well, the way everyone's back to
9:38
the 90s look at this. This star chart, that's like a
9:42
space map, isn't it? I mean, but it it's done in the
9:45
style of an old sailing map. More detail.
9:48
More detail. This this little thing in the
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box? Here we go.
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Yeah, we completely missed that in the Cliff angle as well,
9:55
didn't we? That's another wee thing.
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It's. Did yeah, It's the first kind of
9:58
like big sign a few seconds before that window opens, it's
10:01
the first big sign. This is all is not as insane and
10:04
that's like this. The model work on this is really
10:07
cool. Well, it's done on film as well,
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which makes it look stylish as hell.
10:12
If they'd done it on video, it would have looked like a load of
10:15
toy ships. Sort of On strings, yeah.
10:18
We're about to get another fine Doctor Who tradition here.
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The companion becomes abruptly I'll to be removed from the
10:23
action. She needs some Pepto Bismol.
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She does. She's had too much smack.
10:30
She needs a lighting. That's an enormous bottle in
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Eastbourne Boots. Hang on, Tegan, I'm coming.
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Anyone got a time machine? I'll go back and give it.
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Imagine Tegan covered in Pepto Bismol.
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I'll please change the. Subject.
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I'll get back to you in 5 minutes on that.
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I just need to take them all that over.
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Actually, that isn't, no, actually I'm not going there
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into gunk, gunk porn, Bucky. What it was, excuse me, Lee
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Mckenney. I was going to say, though,
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there there was a fine tradition there of stating the fucking
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obvious, which I'm very pleased TV has gotten out of the habit
11:11
now. So when the thing opens up and
11:14
there's clearly a load of electronic equipment, Tegan
11:16
literally goes, Oh my God, electronics on an Edwardian
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sailing ship. Like, thank you.
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We have eyes. Like, that was a bit of a
11:26
problem during this era, you know?
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It's a bit of a problem during the pretty modern era as well.
11:31
Like if she got was standing, you know, explaining everything
11:34
that's going on. Like the audience are fucking
11:36
idiots. What?
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Pointing out the patently obvious.
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Yes, OK. You know.
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I mean, I tend to do that on your Polish box episodes.
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You guys don't stick to mine too much.
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That's that's that's good to you, Joe.
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That's good to see you, you know, there we go.
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Look, she's giving her a bit of buck fast.
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There is. That what it is.
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It looks like a glass of rum to me.
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I'd just like to imagine that it's, you know, he's there
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going. It's made by Glaswegian monks.
12:02
Look, it's fine. Drink it.
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Where I come from, it's a delicacy.
12:07
It's a delicacy in the triangle. Can I get you a sausage supper?
12:11
I could see the bottle on the shelf.
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It's a Kraken bottle Lee, just like yours.
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She's half inch fat though at least.
12:18
Something like that. Here we go.
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That's what's going on with Mark Strickson's eyebrows in this.
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What's? Yeah, they're very Denis Healy,
12:27
aren't they? No, they're always like that.
12:29
They brush them up to make him look alien.
12:31
That's the one. Did they?
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Oh, let me come here. Well, I wish Star Trek would do
12:35
that instead of all that fucking latex.
12:37
If they just did an eyebrow it would be allow the actors to
12:39
act. He's still got his face.
12:43
The eyebrow acting. Well, here we go.
12:45
They have an older glory. Look at that, do you?
12:47
Guys like Turlo. I I do I like as an
12:53
untrustworthy companion, a really sort of kind of dodgy
12:56
character kicking about the tart this I'm a I'm a fan of him, I
12:58
like. Him, I I was, yeah, I was going
13:00
to be say similar thing. I was like, I like the idea that
13:03
there was a yeah companion out to kill the Doctor without them
13:08
knowing. Obviously we as the audience
13:10
know, but he obviously the Doctor himself doesn't.
13:13
And it's just like one of those occasions where it's there's a
13:16
guaranteed sort of built in tension to the whole thing from
13:19
then on. The trouble is though, is they
13:22
rarely give him anything to do. You look at his run, Warriors of
13:25
the Deep, he's wandering around that base doing nothing.
13:28
Resurrection of the Daleks, he's wandering around that base doing
13:31
nothing. The Awakening, he's locked in
13:33
that cupboard with Tegan's granddad, the King's Demons.
13:38
I don't mean he does anything in that.
13:40
Like this. Frontiers, The Five Doctors,
13:43
he's locked in the TARDIS for the majority of the story.
13:46
So I think he has so much potential that was kind of
13:50
unrealised on the whole because he's a good actor.
13:52
He's he's got shifty down pat. Oh yeah.
13:55
Yeah, nothing like about him. He's definitely the most
13:59
melodramatic companion since Susan.
14:01
It's like when he's called the Point.
14:03
I did the frothing in the big eyes stuff.
14:04
He goes for it. It was an infection.
14:08
Do you remember the it's been a Pepto Bismol when he goes
14:13
running in the room and put in worries and tea when he goes the
14:17
controls for the door, where is it?
14:19
It's got the gun inside and the poor actors are like what's
14:23
happening? Oh, bless this look.
14:27
At this Teague and you're not specific anymore?
14:29
No, completely. Drunk, I think for once, right?
14:32
For once, that those hideous Wicker chairs that they've got
14:35
in Tegan's room in the TARDIS actually suits A room.
14:39
I think the year of the two rooms merged together.
14:42
Yeah, I think we should really dwell on this because this is
14:44
this is quite an important scene.
14:45
I mean, this really, we're going to have to tap into Tegan's
14:48
trauma here because she wakes up in a strange place to find a
14:51
wooden object with absolutely no apparent use or function
14:56
whatsoever standing there. I mean, she thought she'd just
14:58
got rid of this other story before.
15:02
Oh lay. It's like a stake to my heart.
15:08
In the words of Nyssa, so much for your justice.
15:17
You've been waiting to say that one, haven't you?
15:18
I've been saving over, not for that scene, yeah.
15:23
This is a wonderful scene for Peter Davison, where he gets to
15:27
question what the Eternals are, what they're doing to people.
15:31
Is it now where he goes? Yes.
15:33
You take people with imagination because you've got none of your
15:35
own. He does.
15:37
That sort of. Blazing eyed Fury when he's
15:40
given the chance really well and the rarest of things, he's given
15:44
interesting words to say as well.
15:47
I like the kind of build up in the language in this one as well
15:51
in the dialogue, because like the captain kind of sort of
15:54
says, you know, you are you, you travel in time, you're a time
15:57
traveller. And only then after a couple of
15:59
sentences, then goes, you are a load of time, a Time Lord.
16:03
So it's like it's, it's sort of gaining information as time goes
16:06
on. Standing next to him.
16:08
It could have been really, really easy for them just to go,
16:11
Oh yeah, Time Lord. And that would have been just
16:13
like straight to it. But it's cool in the way that
16:15
it's just like this gradual kind of build of, right, I know more
16:18
and more about you the more I'm standing talking to you without
16:21
you knowing it kind of thing. You know what I mean?
16:24
That's pretty cool. I think there's just a bit more
16:26
thought in the script than your average script of this period.
16:30
In this sense, I think Chris Bailey's Snake Dance and and
16:33
Barbara Clegg's Enlightenment are the 2 stand outs for doing
16:37
science fiction stories that are just unlike anything we've ever
16:41
seen before. And kudos for that, really.
16:43
Like we've seen A Million King's Demons and I mean, Terminus has
16:48
got some nice ideas in it. Fuck me, it's a slog to watch
16:53
when you do season 20. Can I do Terminus please?
16:56
Absolutely, yeah. I can't Big 10 already.
16:58
You're in the book. I don't remember.
17:01
I don't remember that great term.
17:03
Oh yeah. The glowing eyes.
17:06
The big sort of like massive Scotty Dog samurai.
17:09
That's it. Yeah, right.
17:11
I know that. I couldn't.
17:13
In my head I was like, I could have gone.
17:14
I've seen Terminus fairly recently and the only thing I
17:17
remember about is that guy going it's just a laser ship.
17:21
We're all going to die. We're all going to die.
17:24
That's the only thing I can remember.
17:26
As soon as it's like, yeah, Scotty Dog, yeah, that's the
17:28
one. I hand you the Oscars now.
17:31
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we might as well, you
17:33
know. Between Burgbo and that I mean.
17:37
I know I've got Reece Mccolin, a genuine.
17:40
Doing doing that job, you could be an actor, Dylan Reece.
17:43
Will you get him on your books now, please?
17:47
I could be. I could be.
17:48
Do you know he's doing a a Hammer Horror at the moment?
17:51
All dear? I better be careful when I put
17:53
this out now. You'd be wonderful in a Hammer
17:56
Horror. You know, the way you hammed it
17:57
up in the Great Teabag Mystery. I could hang up a teabag, not a
18:02
problem at all. Yeah, yeah.
18:05
I, I can't get over how how involved in the story all three
18:10
of the regulars are in this. Yeah, again, this is totally
18:13
unlike the mid 80s. I think Barbara Killig cares
18:18
about the characters, that's the thing.
18:21
Yeah, it's it's the way though, that I mean, I often kind of
18:25
think about how do you think this story if like enlightenment
18:30
did not exist in 1983 and they instead did the same idea in
18:34
like a David Tennant or a Matt Smith 45 minute?
18:39
Do you think the whole story would be like, oh, the Doctor's
18:42
got to stop this ship? And that would be him just like,
18:45
charging around trying to like, you know, trying to sabotage
18:49
because he knows if they win, then it's going to be, you know,
18:54
the end of the world or something like that.
18:55
Or, you know, that would probably be it wouldn't.
18:58
It would be like, you know, David Tennant running around the
19:02
rigging. I think you were right the first
19:05
time. You've just sparked a synapse in
19:07
my head, like a huge rose flower blossoming up there.
19:10
This would be a wonderful Matt Smith series 5 episode 45
19:15
minutes with this premise, that sort of fairy tale thing.
19:19
Amy could be the one, you know, because she's just as irritating
19:22
as Tegan. Amy could be the one that
19:24
Mariners leching over. But of course, you know, she'd
19:27
be opening her legs a bit more for him, unlike Tegan.
19:30
But do you know what I mean? Like the tone of it, I don't
19:32
think it wouldn't fit in five. It really definitely would.
19:37
It's one of those sort of weird ideas.
19:40
It's kind of, I think your direct kind of comparison would
19:46
be one of the early Matt Smith ones.
19:50
What's the one with Starship UK Beast below?
19:53
That's the one Beast below. It's like got that kind of stuff
19:56
in there A. Little bit of like Amy's choice,
19:59
yeah. Just just, just just the sort of
20:01
the otherworldiness of it. Mm, Hmm.
20:04
Mm. Hmm.
20:05
So I don't seem to think that. Sorry.
20:06
You carry on. No, no, no.
20:07
You carry on. Like I was just repeating pretty
20:09
much what I said before. You carry on.
20:10
I was. Just going to say that I'm
20:11
obviously never used Barbaclake before because this feels like
20:14
it like you're saying, I mean, this could easily fit into a
20:16
modern city. It's a very sort of modern
20:18
script, despite it being set on an Edwardian Edwardian sailing
20:21
ship, so. I mean, they would have like
20:23
designed the hell out of this in Series 5, wasn't it?
20:25
Or no, maybe if we pushed it into 6 because that's when the
20:28
fellow who came along who did Christmas Carol on that, that's
20:32
when he came in, wasn't it? That new designer.
20:34
Oh yeah. Yeah.
20:35
What? Was his name Michael Picwo
20:37
Michael Picwo Michael Pickle? Yeah.
20:40
Would have been absolutely brilliant.
20:42
Yeah. God, now I want to play the game
20:44
of name the classic Who stories that would fear the new series.
20:48
Yeah, so it's the first thing I think about every time.
20:50
It's like, you know, when I watch a a classic one, I'm like,
20:53
if this didn't exist, that this idea was in the modern series.
20:56
My overall. Doctor would see it.
20:58
Literally does it the other way round.
21:00
Every single new series episode he watches he casts it with
21:04
classic series doctors and companions.
21:07
But yeah, he always goes to the 6th Doctor.
21:09
And Perry, for some reason, they've been in that house
21:12
chasing around with Queen Victoria and a werewolf.
21:19
I think you just want to see Perry running up those stairs,
21:21
you know? I'm very worried about him.
21:23
The fun game to play, though. It's a fun game to play.
21:27
Yeah, it's kind of like on the balls box where we start going,
21:30
you know, switching doctors around and things like that.
21:32
That's a similar idea. In an era where I don't think
21:37
Peter Davidson got to be as commanding as perhaps he should
21:41
have been, maybe not until his last season where he had a few
21:44
really juicy moments. Hey, he just gets to be, like I
21:48
said, a lot, blazing with fury, but in a really sort of high
21:52
concept idea up against what's technically like a God.
21:56
Davidson just didn't get scenes like this, really.
21:59
So it's quite refreshing. You talk about them as if
22:04
they're toys. To me they are.
22:07
Here's a nice little pivot here, just for a moment.
22:09
You didn't know Interesting. But it hopes only kind of hinges
22:13
and little developments like that rather than overblown set
22:16
pieces, doesn't it? It's just little things that
22:18
just. Yes, little kind of giveaways
22:20
that just lead up quite nicely and then expand on later on.
22:24
It's the flow of information in this strawberry is really nice.
22:31
I don't think it's like being. Edged for exactly the right
22:35
amount of time, isn't it? I'll take your word for that,
22:38
absolutely. I'll defend to you in that way.
22:40
And then what I'll say is sort of like the first, because you
22:43
know, when you're edge, it's good to have an orgasm in the
22:45
middle and that middle bit where they're up on the deck and and
22:49
you have him jumping off and flying through space, that's
22:51
like the first or worst and fabulous.
22:53
And then we've edged all the way through the second-half and then
22:57
the ending with the Enlighteners, the great Crystal
22:59
Palace and the huge choice that Telo has to make.
23:02
My God, it's even better orgasm than the first one.
23:06
I've been watching the edge of destruction of a very different
23:08
view of the. Edge of destruction, that's.
23:14
Going to be. Late.
23:15
We're going to bring together in a few weeks, you know.
23:19
Joe, Joe. I usually do it without.
23:21
Wish you'd get TMIII. Usually just sleep after the
23:24
first one, you know What do you mean halfway sleep?
23:27
Yeah. Oh God.
23:29
Too old for this now mate, I need. 4 * A night.
23:32
Come on. I need I need written notes.
23:33
Oh hang on, are you talking about the first Doctor Who story
23:36
watched? Or yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
23:37
yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
23:40
Bring some roundabouts. I'll see these specific.
23:42
Let's talk about this relationship, Yeah, and how
23:46
creepy and pushy he is. What is what?
23:49
What is Barbara Clegg trying to say about male female
23:52
relationships here? That they are sometimes somewhat
24:00
overbearing, but I don't that as a character and I know it's like
24:08
it maybe wouldn't fly now that relationship because obviously
24:11
you'd have some sort of lechy bloke after a woman on telly,
24:14
which I know happened to load. And don't do this kind of error,
24:17
you know, Perry, especially as we've already said.
24:19
But if you were to do it again in the modern day, you'd
24:22
probably have to tone it down slightly.
24:23
But his character is a guy who has never met a sort of human
24:31
woman like Tegan before. So he's kind of like a confused
24:40
child or like, you know, he's not like a kind of like old
24:44
adult kind of, you know, none of that.
24:49
It's just like, it's that kind of like sort of first romance,
24:55
you know, when you you fancy someone in school, it's that
24:57
kind of if they say no yet, it's the end of the world kind of
25:01
thing. I don't think it's loaded with
25:08
like assault overtones as much as people would maybe take it to
25:13
be. Is done now.
25:15
The only, the only disagreement I would make that is I love that
25:19
reading. It's like a child discovering
25:22
this stuff for the first time. Is that because the Eternals are
25:27
so selfish? Yeah.
25:29
They consider themselves higher beings and the ephemerals are we
25:33
are. So at no point does he ever
25:35
consider how she's feeling. He always has lines like I need
25:39
you, I want this. And it's him pushing himself on
25:42
her all the time without ever once saying is that alright?
25:46
Like are you OK with that? She could she could be clearer
25:50
about not being injured. Asylum.
25:52
Leave me alone. Read the signs mate, Come on.
25:55
Yeah, just fuck off mate. But but again, that could be a
25:59
comment, right, that women can be very clear that they don't.
26:03
Want that attention and men I would never.
26:06
Arrogantly suggest. Actually, yeah, you do.
26:10
It's that whole thing about, you know, when you're quite young
26:16
and, you know, lads get brought up to, you know, oh, you know,
26:20
see women as like conquests and things like that.
26:23
You know what I mean? That the use of that word, you
26:26
know, oh, you know, she's a bit of a conquest.
26:27
You know, it's like, you know, it's something to be defeated
26:31
and. I'm.
26:32
Pleased to say though, I was walking through the town just
26:35
yesterday, right? We went for a bit of Grab
26:37
yesterday evening and there was a whole group of kids outside
26:40
KFC, the place to hang out and one of the boys, I heard him say
26:46
something rude to the girl and she just went up to him and
26:48
decked him round the face just as we were passing.
26:51
I was like, come on, girl, yes. Sweet.
26:56
As they're fighting back, yes. So maybe Tika just punched him.
27:02
Actually she doesn't him in the groin at one point, doesn't she
27:05
or something in that first episode?
27:06
Doesn't she attack him at one point?
27:08
Like she stamps him on his foot or something?
27:10
I. Think so?
27:12
Oh. I don't know, we were too busy
27:14
talking nonsense in Episode 1. I don't.
27:17
Remember seeing it, but I I think there's something at one
27:19
point he does it. I don't know.
27:21
I can't. Know oh boy, the TARDIS is gone
27:25
and they're they're powerful God like beings so it could be
27:27
anywhere. Diamond space Fuck, we're stuck
27:32
here. To what have you done?
27:33
With the terrorist, what's a big fucking blue box in our cargo
27:36
hole? So we.
27:37
I. Was looking about out of place,
27:40
you know. It's just kind of, you know,
27:42
terrible. Thing about covering it with a
27:44
line, I love the line about where it is.
27:46
Do you remember? Is that OK?
27:51
It's in the dark races of your mind, Doctor.
27:54
There it is. That's fair, left.
28:00
I should put up a sign. Where's your where's your car
28:03
keys? In the dark recesses of your
28:05
mind? All right, look, I'll start on
28:07
that. Yeah.
28:09
Jesus Christ. You know, talking of keys, you
28:12
know, I've got this new set of keys cut this week, OK?
28:15
It's got nothing to do with enlightenment.
28:16
Look, I've got it here. I've not been trusted with a key
28:19
for six months, since the last time he cut me a key.
28:22
And the very day he did it, we went to the pub and had lunch
28:25
and I left my coat there and somebody stuck my coat.
28:28
So it's like you're not having a key anymore.
28:30
But unfortunately it's away this weekend, so I needed one.
28:33
You know what it's done. It sounds like golden into the
28:37
fucking Crystal Maze. He's secreted keys in all of
28:41
these unusually bizarre places. I'm not searching for a doctor
28:45
to find a spare key for. I'm just.
28:48
I'm just pictured in the last six months.
28:49
You're not be able to get yourself in, but you've got a
28:51
jaw flap in the door just perfectly come to your size, no?
28:55
So he works from home, so it works out quite well.
28:59
Well, if he lets me in, I'm like please.
29:03
You get chopped out at 9:00 in the morning, let back in when
29:05
it's time for dinner. Well, at least he makes it all
29:08
right. You wouldn't believe where those
29:10
keys are, though. I mean, I obviously won't tell
29:12
you on the call. People might become round
29:13
nicking and stuff, but yeah, oh, boy.
29:16
I mean, he's he's found all these ingenious traps and things
29:20
and like, if you put in the wrong code, you'll never know
29:22
the time again. It ain't worth it.
29:25
It's just a load of junk in this house.
29:28
Sorry. What's happening in the story?
29:30
Oh, we're going outside. There we are.
29:35
Nice. Did you notice the choral music
29:38
when they went outside? That's all.
29:40
Yeah, yeah, it's a nice to be such a change of pace there,
29:43
doesn't there? I look like this beautiful film,
29:46
that sort of moonlit lighting. Normally when you get a sort of
29:50
thing, it really jars with the studio stuff, but it's just just
29:54
really adds to the atmosphere of something being quite other and
29:56
quite spooky. Coming cleverly, for once, I'm
30:00
not being rude there. She cleverly puts the camera low
30:05
off the deck so it feels like it's a raised set.
30:10
Otherwise it would just look like the studio floor with a bit
30:13
of beside. But she actually shoots it in a
30:16
way where you feel like you're and there's a bit of movement as
30:19
well. And I just think it's really
30:20
clever, you know, have you seen the Happiness Patrol lately?
30:24
You know, inside, outside like these things can go wrong.
30:28
Yeah. Now don't be knocking Happiness
30:32
Patrol. Oh, sorry.
30:34
Does have the candy man. So, you know, like my boy in
30:36
America. Fucking love the candy, man.
30:39
Don't you love those blue bobbly ones that his head's made out
30:41
of? Oh.
30:42
They're my favorite ones, Yeah, I don't.
30:44
Like licorice, man, I don't like licorice.
30:46
You call yourself a Scotsman. Do you like black pudding?
30:50
You like black pudding? Would you Scotland?
30:56
The best black pudding I ever had was in Scotland.
30:59
Why would you not have haggis instead of black pudding?
31:03
Oh yeah, it was quite nice as well, though it was all that
31:05
sort of awful and stuff, you know?
31:07
I don't like to think about what I'm eating.
31:09
OK, well, it's in haggis form. It's not it's it's all in a
31:15
convenient in a convenient stomach.
31:18
What's that about? That's, you know, when you're,
31:21
when you're, when you're pissed poor, you have to do these
31:24
things too, you know, as we as a nation are, you know, the common
31:29
people, the sources you to appear of Scotland, you know.
31:32
With opinions on that, I've only got one thing to say to you.
31:35
You are doomed, boy. Doomed boy now I.
31:44
Love, I love me Valentine's Day. I'll pronounce Wrath as well.
31:46
He goes wrong. You boys will live upon this
31:50
podcast in perpetual torment. I have hidden your statins, boy.
31:58
This is another fabulous cliffhanger though, isn't it?
32:00
I mean, he's jumping up in space and lunatic.
32:03
Possessed and taken off and gone.
32:05
Look at him, he's amazing. It's actually kind of a shame
32:09
because I think this is probably Telos best story.
32:12
Like all this stuff with the Black Guardian, the stuff down
32:16
below Decks in episode 1, the stuff with Rack that's coming
32:20
up. Yep.
32:22
So the only instance of a companions try to sacrifice
32:26
themselves because I can't think of any others.
32:28
No, I can't either. I know there's a whole thing
32:32
like Joe standing in the way of the Doctor been as I was trying
32:35
to bump him off, but that's like, you know, laying down your
32:38
life for the Doctor. This is obviously a
32:39
straightforward right? He's trying to commit suicide,
32:42
isn't? He I don't think of any other
32:44
businesses. Now that's quite strong and
32:46
we've already had Mordred and that bunch trying to commit
32:48
suicide earlier in the season. This is the suicide year.
32:52
Then I guess Season 20. Well, he's Alex Hayward, doesn't
32:56
it? Yeah.
32:57
The second year continues. Next year is the the massacre
33:02
year. You get Warriors of the Deep,
33:03
Resurrection of Daleks, Cato and Rosani free massacres.
33:06
The year after is the Body horror year.
33:08
You know vendors on Varos, 2 doctors.
33:11
Yeah. Well, good grief.
33:15
OK, I'm going to ask a genuine question about enlightenment
33:18
since the episode's now ended. And that is, what do you think
33:21
of the Telo Black Guardian relationship, the arc that's
33:26
happening there? Like, do you think that works?
33:29
Was it worth trying? Let's go to Lee.
33:34
It's definitely worth trying because at some point it's not
33:36
been attempted before in the show, and probably not since.
33:39
I think it doesn't outside of the black Gabby and turning up
33:44
every so often and you'll kill the doctor boy or you'll be
33:48
content to hell with this. Lots of kind of just strutting
33:51
about and shouting at Tudlow if he could have done a little bit
33:54
more of it. And we tries to like bring him
33:56
off a polystyrene rocking bodrum dead.
33:59
But there's no like other attempts to make him really kind
34:02
of sinister and try it off the doctor.
34:04
The kid had dialled up a little bit more, I think, and we've
34:07
taken it further, but it just seems like I don't want to see a
34:11
one, No idea, but they've come up with this really good idea,
34:14
but not really. They've looked at much over the
34:16
next 2-3 episodes you could have done with.
34:19
It hell grit. But in Terminus then he just has
34:22
to be put aside because that story, that arc is not relevant
34:26
in Terminus, it's all apart from the very first and the very last
34:28
scene. So they just shove him under the
34:30
ground the whole story and it pops up at the end.
34:33
It goes, oh, right, yeah, kill the Doctor, right.
34:35
Yeah. They're probably been more to
34:37
that if they've been one less companion.
34:40
Yeah. Room to breathe.
34:41
But yeah, I think it's just. Like getting rid of Nisa again.
34:44
I try to try, I try my best. She's going straight down the
34:48
wood chipper in the morning. To quote Nisa herself, I'm going
34:51
to keep doing this every time. You're losing time.
34:54
Loss of Gallifrey. Forgive him.
34:58
Cameron Turlo and the Black Guardian.
35:01
Would there not have been an ideal opportunity to have Turlo
35:06
somehow work with whoever the big pad was in that story to try
35:12
and kill the Doctor? Because it would have knocked
35:14
like two birds with one stone kind of thing.
35:18
You know, there was probably an opportunity they didn't take.
35:21
I think Lee's right in the sense that they could have taken it a
35:23
little bit further. And that's the fur that I would
35:24
have taken it to if it was, if it'd have been me.
35:26
The trouble is, Taylor would have worked with someone.
35:29
You'd have those fans, you know, the ones writing the fan scenes
35:32
at the time, those ungrateful cunts that were writing all the
35:35
reviews trying to get JNT cancelled.
35:37
They'd be going well, no, Do you not remember Adrick?
35:39
You know, working for the Master and Monarch and Hindle and every
35:43
other bastard that came along. Every week We're just doing the
35:46
same thing again with Turlo. Yeah, but it's not bloody Adric,
35:52
is it? Because Adric was a bloody thin
35:55
waft of a character that just was perpetually annoying.
35:59
You wouldn't travel with Adric, would you?
36:02
Seriously. Matthew, I know you listened to
36:04
this podcast. He doesn't mean it really all
36:06
right. He doesn't.
36:08
You wouldn't. Matthew.
36:09
He does. He does, Matthew.
36:11
You wouldn't. He's gone mad on Haggis Matthew,
36:13
all right? No, he doesn't listen.
36:17
Don't worry. As you just, you know you'd be
36:21
kicking him the minute he went. I've worked at the quarters to
36:23
go to E space. You'd be like kicking him out
36:26
the door on yourself son. Bye yourself A.
36:29
Fucking E space. You space on a freighter?
36:32
Go and use it. You're fine.
36:34
You've gone back in time. Whoops to the dinosaurs.
36:37
Oh well. It's just like, yeah, exactly.
36:40
So, yeah, I don't think Tyler was a character.
36:44
As we said, he's interested in the fact that he is not, you
36:49
know, he's only there to murder the doctor at some point, you
36:53
know, he's going to, you know, try and do it.
36:54
Like I say, there's a couple of times where he does definitely
36:57
try. But yeah, the next step up would
36:59
be like, he'd work out that such and such on wherever the big bad
37:03
was that week was trying to kill the doctor.
37:06
And therefore he would be like, ah, wait a minute, hold on.
37:09
And there'd be this kind of like double agent thing going on for
37:11
a while until he obviously sees the error of his ways.
37:14
I think you kind of balance it right.
37:16
Sorry, Joe, when you. The trouble is, the redemption
37:18
isn't seeded, is it? So he makes a choice at the end
37:21
of this, yes. No, I'm not going to kill the
37:22
Doctor. I'm not going to take that cheap
37:24
looking crystal that you're offering me.
37:27
But there's been no points where he's sort of been leaning
37:30
towards the doctor. I don't think that should have
37:34
been seeded in the story that he's going to like them and
37:37
Tegan as well, like both of them, because he's sort of
37:40
making a choice to give up that and take on that life.
37:44
As we're going to see though, I mean, it's the Doctor that saves
37:47
him from the like, the airlock thing in a minute, isn't it?
37:52
And it's in Episode 3. I mean, I don't know.
38:00
Could you have somehow would that have been achieved if those
38:03
roles were reversed? If it was the Doctor that was
38:05
going to die in the airlock and saved him, Taylor saved him.
38:10
Or maybe Tegan was in the airlock as well with the Doctor
38:12
and he has to save both of them. And in doing so, kind of.
38:16
Not really rational. Cameron saving Tegan?
38:18
Come on. Well, crazy, Yeah.
38:22
I mean, as far as I said, Turlo reminds me so much of Star Trek
38:26
Voyager. Now go with me here for a
38:27
second. Star Trek Voyager opened with
38:30
massive potential. Yeah, a bold new Star Trek
38:34
vision being shot across the universe.
38:36
What the hell has this got the Turlo you And with a morally
38:41
ambiguous idea of this terrorist crew and the Federation crew
38:44
joining forces and it looks like we're going to be exploring this
38:47
exciting region. And then they just do a lot of
38:49
fucking Star Trek knockoffs for seven seasons and forget the
38:52
premise always immediately. So hello started with so much
38:55
promise. I think the idea that there is a
38:57
morally Gray carrot companion that he's out for himself that
39:02
is willing to pick up a rock and brain the Doctor if it means
39:05
it'll get him an advantage, but goes along the journey anyway,
39:08
it's so interesting. They're just not willing to
39:11
explore it, though, beyond moments of jeopardy.
39:15
Yeah. It's a Mr. Opportunity.
39:16
Can you get the balance right with him and Tegan though,
39:18
because she never really fully trusts him all the way through.
39:22
There's always that little bit of suspicion in her.
39:25
And they don't get enough scenes together to.
39:28
All of that relations done that more can't they fear?
39:30
There's one scene in Terminus that flaws me every time I see
39:34
it, and I'm like, yeah, if they'd have done this a couple
39:37
of times. Every story where he goes, he's
39:40
weighing on his mind that he's got to kill the doctor.
39:42
He goes, Tegan, have you ever killed anyone?
39:44
And she goes, you're weird, Turlo, what the hell are you
39:47
talking about? He goes, oh, could you?
39:49
And she goes, well, you know, to save the life.
39:52
To save the life, maybe. Or if it was an extreme circle
39:54
of sound, why are you bringing it up?
39:55
Oh, nothing. Yeah, but it's a moment between
39:58
the two of them. Yeah.
39:59
They don't get another moment. Or maybe Frontiers.
40:02
Yeah. That's a shame.
40:03
That's a shame. Well, it seems a shame for us to
40:06
end this episode on such a down note, but let's reiterate just
40:11
how fabulous that suicidal cliffhanger was.
40:14
That's two for two, right? So far.
40:17
Yeah, they're too strong. Cliffhound this year.
40:18
Yeah, I've. Absolutely gotten the last
40:20
strong. Does it feature Linda Baron's
40:22
tits? Well, likely.
40:25
Oh no, do. You want to go and look at them.
40:28
Boys, let's find. Out I just.
40:29
It's it's it's the earlock. Is it not?
40:32
It's too low in the, it's too low in the earlock, is it not?
40:35
No, I. Thought that was meant to be the
40:37
cliffhanger. Oh, she.
40:38
Looks straight to the camera, doesn't she?
40:40
And go. Yeah.
40:41
Oh, doctor, you are. All the time.
40:43
Is that something like? That oh, because it's the thing
40:45
where they work out the targeting thing with the laser
40:48
thing she's got, yeah. Yeah, and then Ronnie Barker
40:51
appears at the window on a ladder and it just gets.
40:53
Yeah. I've slipped out my finest
40:56
rubies from my Double D and put it in Tegan's tiara and you will
41:00
all die. Haha.
41:01
That's all the ending. Well now we've already spoken
41:05
about it. Should go watch it.