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Can Bacteria Actually Eat Plastic? · How To Protect The Ocean

• 0:00
  If you listened to the episode yesterday,
• 0:02
  we had Anya Brandon, Dr. Anya Brandon,
• 0:05
  who talked about microfibers. And in the interview,
• 0:08
  she actually made a joke about the future of having a machine in your apartment that
• 0:13
  can break down all your plastics and you can reuse the materials for something else.
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  Then she kind of laughed at herself for even thinking that.
• 0:20
  But it kind of got me thinking.
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  It's like I get a lot of these
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  you know, videos or things like that from friends who are like,
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  hey Andrews, is there such thing as bacteria eating plastic?
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  And can we use this as an innovative innovative way to,
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  you know, clean up our plastic habits and and clean up the plastics
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  to recycle them to something better?
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  and it, you know what, I was like,
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  I don't know. Well let's let's look.
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  I know there's times where yes,
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  that's happened, but we don't know at the scale and can we actually run that
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  on a full scale
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  like plants that are actually able to do this,
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  like like you know, warehouses or manufacturing plants that can actually break down
• 0:55
  bacteria using bacteria eating plastic.
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  Or is there another way that we can do this where we can actually get ahead
• 1:01
  of this plastic pollution epidemic that we're in?
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  And you know what? We're gonna find that out on today's episode of
• 1:06
  the How to Protect the Ocean podcast because this is where you find
• 1:08
  out all ocean news, new innovative ways of ~ helping protect the ocean.
• 1:14
  As well as just getting updates on what's happening in the ocean.
• 1:17
  That's what we do here today. So if you like that kind of information,
• 1:20
  you're new here, welcome. We've been doing this since twenty thousand fifteen.
• 1:23
  and we'd love for you to join the community.
• 1:25
  So all you have to do is just follow this podcast on your favorite podcast
• 1:28
  out that you listen to it right now.
• 1:29
  and you'll get more information Monday to Friday.
• 1:31
  ~ and it'll be a lot of fun. We do an interview at the beginning of the week.
• 1:35
  Sometimes we're at the end of the week.
• 1:36
  We're gonna switch it to the beginning of the week,
• 1:38
  and then we're gonna do solo episodes to break down that interview just exactly.
• 1:42
  what we're doing today. So in that interview yesterday,
• 1:45
  if you had a chance after this episode,
• 1:47
  go listen to that interview yesterday.
• 1:48
  It should be the episode right before this.
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  you know, Anya said, like, said,
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  you know, and and I think it's worth restating kind of like what she claimed here.
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  It's like plastic degrading bacteria research is still it's roughly a decade old,
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  but it still hasn't come close to the meaningful at scale business type that
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  we really need. And and, you know,
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  it's in it's more realistic as a compliment
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  to recycling or wastewater treatment than you know,
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  a cleanup miracle. So like right now,
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  right off the bat, I would say,
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  no, don't consider this our way out.
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  It's not even close to what we need right now.
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  And we're gonna break that down as to why in in in in more detail.
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  Now, ~ I asked her, you know, why this is happening and and I said like,
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  are we creating a technology for a problem that like we don't need to solve?
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  Because that's essentially what
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  is is is coming up here. And she compared or like,
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  you know, an overpromised tech fixes to something like the Ocean Cleanup Project.
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  If you were on Ocean Decoded Live on my YouTube,
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  ~ you could see how I talked about the ocean cleanup and how that
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  was a technology that we didn't really need that actually made it worse
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  in the ocean than better. and that like these pitches,
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  you know, for fast fixes for something that really needs to be stopped
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  at the source is is they're just distractions,
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  right?
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  It it's just like when a politician when trying to when they're trying
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  to answer a question and they refer to something different just to
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  get out of answering that question because they know people aren't gonna like
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  the question. Right. Now Anya was being pretty modest of of what
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  was actually like the the landscape that we're here,
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  right? and going into what the plastic eating bacteria landscape is like.
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  And so, you know, today we're gonna talk about that.
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  It's actually a a pretty messy one,
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  ~
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  we talk about the bacteria question and whether it's actually a ready to
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  go kind of thing. So let's go there because I think that's what's really important
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  here. now first thing to to let you know is like the bacterium that started this
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  whole field is called Idianella Sacchianis.
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  Okay, Sacyanis, sorry. we it was discovered breaking down the PET plastics
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  in Japan back in 2016. It was actually peer reviewed,
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  published in published
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  Published paper in science. Now in in 2025,
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  researchers at NRL, UMass Lowell,
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  and the University of Portsmouth engineered an improved version of that what
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  we call PET AS enzyme that made enzymatic PET recycling ~ dramatically cheaper.
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  And the there's less acid and base chemical use is down 99%.
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  Running the cost is down 74% and the energy use is down 65%.
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  And their modeled costs like the enzyme recycled PET about a dollar fifty
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  one per kilogram. That's US. ~ and it actually undercuts the the virgin plastic
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  by by about 30 almost 40 cents at a dollar eighty seven per kilogram.
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  So it's cheaper, it's uses less energy,
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  it it the costs are are are cheaper to go down,
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  and of course the chemical use is down 99%,
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  which is all which is all great.
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  and this is like a you know a government and university source.
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  This is incredible as this space gets.
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  The catch is though, ~ and it's the same thing that Anya said,
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  is like this is still just in a development set phase.
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  It's not at a commercial scale yet.
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  no firm deployment date has happened so far.
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  and it really depends entirely,
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  you know, someone actually investing to build the first US plant.
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  So like the the it's there, it's not commercialized yet,
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  and it's not as scale work we use,
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  but it's still, you know, it it it there's a possibility for it to happen.
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  Not saying that it'll never happen.
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  There's a possibility for it to happen.
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  Now, you know, I hate to say it on your skepticism as scientists,
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  like we all do, like this is not near where we are.
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  So that makes sense, right? even the best lab breakthrough in this space
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  is still lab only and it's still only happening.
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  So we still have a lot of stuff that that needs to go on.
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  Now, there are companies who are trying to do this.
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  They're trying to do use this enzymatic PET recycling.
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  one company is a French company,
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  Carbios or CACBOS.
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  I think is how you pronounce it.
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  they built an entire business around this enzymatic PET recycling
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  at an industrial scale, which makes it probably the best real world test
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  of whether this technology can leave the lab.
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  And and I'll be honest, like it's still early,
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  right? So I I don't want to down this this company because you know
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  it everything is early in this technology.
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  And like this is really the first that I see from from the the
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  the looking around and research that I've been able to do.
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  This is the first company that I've seen that actually.
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  is wants to bring it to that industrial scale.
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  So so let's give it a some some grace in terms of what's happening,
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  of course. but like their flagship in plant in Longue Longueville,
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  Longue la Ville, France is not operational yet.
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  The construction was delayed six to nine months due to financial problems
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  or financing problems. And then the cash reserves dropped from 112 million euros
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  in two November 2004 to 72 million euros in June 2025.
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  And they cut about 40% of their workforce in January 2025.
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  So as you can see, the the space is still quite volatile.
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  There's a lot of money involved.
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  You're looking at 122 112 million euros and 72 million euros.
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  That's a lot of money in this space.
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  So the people are serious about this stuff.
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  They've just haven't been able to get the the the ~ industry up and running
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  and and this warehouse up and running and this technology
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  at a scale. Now, according to sources,
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  they've they've pivoted towards Asia.
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  a new joint venture with a Chinese PET producer Wang Kei
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  New Materials targeted about 50,000 ton plastic or sorry,
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  50,000 ton plant in Zhaijiang,
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  in China. the construction is planned for early was planned for early 2026,
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  commissioning targeted for about early 2027,
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  but I can't verify that. So the timeline is still it's moving fast
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  and that can change.
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  but there's really no like a like that like there's no real solidification in this.
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  Like a a shareholder group that was that from Carbios still
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  is raising concerns about the the the deal with China,
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  like the China company, the Chinese company.
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  and Carbios has denied the allegations that there is any kind of concerns
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  to be worried about, and it filed a legal complaint again calling
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  it a destabilization campaign.
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  So again, there's still a lot of stuff.
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  There's nothing I can really verify other than the source that I got it from here,
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  but like this is all in motion,
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  right? But the biggest takeaway here is like like even the most promising enzymatic
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  recycling company in the world still can't get one plant running.
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  So we are still not there. It's not to say that it'll happen.
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  It's just the question is real,
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  is like how far are we from this at scale,
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  right? So there are people in interested and it could happen to move it forward,
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  but we're not sure what's gonna happen with this at this point.
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  Right. now the other thing, you know,
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  it that like this plastic eating tech,
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  it's it's it's kind of like it's a little bit controversial,
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  right? Or the other thing that people call plastic eating tech.
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  I think that's the difference,
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  right? We have this bacteria that eats plastic,
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  like the PET plastic, but then we have others that they call it back they call
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  it plastic eating, but is it really plastic eating?
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  Right. So I want you to know that the other quote unquote plastic eating tech
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  is chemical recycling.
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  Right. It's called pyrolysis. And it's it's not biological.
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  It's a chemical way of doing it.
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  It's basically breaking down the plastic with extreme heat that goes makes
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  it go back into oil or gas. So you gotta remember that plastic
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  is a petroleum product. So it is made from petroleum products.
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  So it's made from oil and gas.
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  So if you if you heat it, you can get oil from it.
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  How clean that is to really reuse as you know,
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  gas or oil or anything like that,
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  I don't know. But people, you know,
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  the people are are doing this.
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  and it's also it's like people when people hear like
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  new plastic recycling technology in the news,
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  that's what people are picturing a lot of the time,
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  right? It's not the bacteria eating thing because that's still not there as
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  we as we talked about, right? ~ now it's it's it's pitched as
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  a solution for plastics, but that can't be mechanically recycled,
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  right? It's just broken down into this this oil and gassed kind of material.
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  So it's not really there. Now an advocacy group named Beyond Plastics.
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  They label this as their like advocacy.
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  So it's like it's not peer-reviewed.
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  This is advocacy. ~ these ~ facilities cur they say these facilities currently
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  handle under 1% of the US plastic waste.
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  one example, the Free Point facility in Ohio takes in 170 ~ million pounds
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  of plastic and produces only 26 million pounds of new plastic.
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  So it's not really recycling, it and and the rest becomes a byproduct.
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  So the US EPA actually regulates pyrolysis.
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  As incineration, not recycling.
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  And the EU excludes it from the EU excludes it from its ex as from
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  its recycling definitions outright,
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  largely because most output, you know,
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  becomes fuel to burn and not new plastic.
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  Right. So it's not recycling, it's more of just breaking it down back into
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  its original form, which is less than what it was.
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  And it's a way, it's it's something that could be done.
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  ~ but the same advocacy source clays like multiple pyrolysis pyrolysis facilities
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  have shut down or gone bankrupt.
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  While running at a fraction of state of capacity,
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  and that the emissions of these plants can run far higher than making virgin
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  plastic. So again, you're using a high heat to break down this air,
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  this, this, these chemicals, like this this basic chemical product into oil and gas.
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  The rest become byproduct, but there's a lot of chemicals,
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  nasty chemicals in there. Where's all that going?
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  How is it being treated? There's a lot of questions there that I haven't answered
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  in this in this episode, but it's it's kind of
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  goes beyond the scope, but it can be,
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  it can be dangerous, right? ~ but this is,
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  you know, it's not peer-reviewed.
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  This is what advocacy organizations are saying.
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  So I want to make sure that it that I I state that.
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  ~ an industry, you know, disputes this type of framing.
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  But when you really look at it,
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  it is melting it down using high heat.
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  So with high heat comes energy use,
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  comes this. Probably not the better than the bacteria eating plastic,
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  but, you know, it is something that,
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  you know, that can that can take away some of the plastic.
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  Right. now the thing is here is we ask,
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  like when people send me these videos,
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  like, hey Andrew, can we actually do this?
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  Is this something that's being done on a regular basis?
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  The thing is, like when we look at the plastic pollution problem that we have
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  in the ocean, this is not even coming close to what we can do.
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  Right. And not saying that it's not getting there.
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  We always have to go through our steps to get there to use the technology
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  to get there. But it's not the biggest thing that we can do right now,
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  right?
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  The most scientifically credible path,
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  the enzyme the enzymatic recycling of the bacteria recycling,
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  you know, it might finally reach like a cost that's that's that has like
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  per parity with like the virgin plastic on paper.
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  But the company that's that's the furthest along is still,
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  you know, is is is building at a real scale.
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  It still can't put a get a full like one plant fully running.
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  Right. And the chemical recycling has more facilities announced,
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  but the critics say most of what it comes out of it.
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  the other end isn't just new it's not new plastic at all and plus
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  it could cause more problems for you know climate change not
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  not helping the situation as well right so look we are ~ you know are
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  we creating a technology for a problem we don't need to resolve you know
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  not maybe maybe you know but I think it reinforces the point that
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  hey you know reduction reuse reduce and and and and just like refuse
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  you know, is is really where we get furthest with plastic,
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  you know, that and so we don't make it in the first place.
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  and that is still waiting on a fix.
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  That's a that's a big thing. And and when we talk about plastic,
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  there's plastics in many forms.
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  When we talk about the plastics that we all think of,
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  the hard plastic and things like the single-use plastics are the ones that
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  we don't need to use. ~ it's going to come from not only individuals,
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  but really government ~ sort of leadership on this to ban
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  single-use plastics from being used because they are not good for the environment.
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  And the amount of plastics that are getting into the ocean,
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  we can't clean up as much as we use.
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  Like even if we have all the boats along all the rivers in the world,
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  it'll that that'll that'll be almost an impossible feat to even get to.
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  But we need to just stop it at the source.
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  We need to stop using single-use plastics.
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  We need to stop getting it. That will reduce a huge amount and that needs government
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  leadership.
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  Yes, we can reduce the use of that single-use plastics.
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  And we're starting to do that.
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  but sometimes they cause other problems.
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  You never know. ~ but the f the fact of the matter is,
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  is that we are we we are in a crisis right now with plastic pollution.
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  It is everywhere. It is in our lungs,
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  it is in the air, it is in the water,
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  it is everywhere. And we need to reduce it quickly,
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  or we are going to start seeing it,
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  the effects. We're already starting to see the effects in our own health,
• 14:25
  but we're gonna see it for generations and generations on top.
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  So we're gonna talk about plastic all this week,
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  and we're really gonna be focusing in next episode on you know,
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  following an ordinary source of plastic that you wouldn't necessarily think about,
• 14:40
  and that's microfibers that Anya talked about on your on her interview yesterday.
• 14:44
  We're gonna go from the washing machine all the way into the ocean
• 14:47
  on tomorrow's episode. So don't miss that episode.
• 14:50
  So if you want to, if you don't want to miss it,
• 14:52
  just hit that follow button if you haven't done already.
• 14:54
  It'll be right in your feed tomorrow morning.
• 14:56
  But I want to thank you so much.
• 14:57
  That's the end of this episode.
• 14:58
  If you have any questions or comments,
• 14:59
  if you're listening to this on Spotify that allows you to have comments,
• 15:02
  God, I wish podcasting platforms would allow more comments.
• 15:05
  ~ please, you know, hit me up with a comment.
• 15:08
  I'd love to be able to hear what you have to say because this is the beginning
• 15:10
  of a conversation and I want to hear what you have to say.
• 15:12
  Do you know more about this this type of product or plastic eating bacteria that
• 15:16
  you might have some more insights on?
• 15:18
  Let me know.
• 15:19
  Hit me up either on Spotify comments or you can ~ hit me up on a DM Instagram,
• 15:24
  TikTok, Facebook, wherever you see me,
• 15:27
  or even LinkedIn, actually, probably the best way to get a hold of me.
• 15:30
  But I want to thank you. That's it for today's episode.
• 15:32
  I want thank you so much for joining me on today's episode of the How
• 15:34
  to Protect the Ocean Podcast. Have a great day.
• 15:36
  We'll talk to you tomorrow and happy conservation.