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Healing After Divorce - Closure or Validation? · Reflect Reclaim & Liberate - with Sallyanne Hartnell

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate the podcast.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Finding the space for all of you in life and love.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Sally Ann Hartnell, and this podcast is for anyone wanting to reclaim and liberate themselves in their relationships and their life.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: Wherever you are on your relationship journey, these conversations meet you right there in soulful, deeply supportive DNMs with me and interviews with other gorgeous humans, moving you from where you are to where you most want to be.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: A life and love completely aligned with your deepest desires to have it all on your own terms.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: If you're seeking a relationship and a life that lights up all of you, you're in the right place.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'd also like to acknowledge that this podcast is recorded on the traditional lands of the Wurundri people and pay my respects to elders past, present, and emerging and acknowledge them as the original storytellers of this land.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome, welcome to another episode of Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: And today on the podcast, I'm going to talk about healing.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Healing after divorce, healing after betrayal.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: And particularly, I'm going to talk about the concept of closure after a divorce, after a breakup, after a betrayal.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I was speaking this week with a client, one of my one-on-one clients, who's about 10, 11 months post-separation from her partner.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: There are no kids involved, so she doesn't really need to interact or engage in an ongoing way with her ex once the financial settlement is finalized.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that's getting pretty close.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: But in this session, she said to me, I just want closure.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so, of course, we dug a bit deeper because that's what I do when I coach.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: And as we explored that a little more, she said that there was this one big thing, and I won't I won't share here exactly what that one big thing was for her, but it could be you know for you, maybe a betrayal, a sexual betrayal, or an infidelity, an affair, it could be lying about finances, or it could be I don't know, having an entire other life with another person in another city, whatever it is.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: It was a significant thing.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: Her one big thing.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: So back to this client, the one big thing she said to me, I just want closure.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: I want to tell him or talk to him about it.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: I want him to know that that thing was really, really messed up.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: It was a really fucked up thing that he did.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: And my question back to her was do you want closure or are you, is this you looking for validation?
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want closure or are you looking for validation?
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: Now the thing he did was pretty big and it absolutely caused a lot of pain, but it was also something that at the time she pushed down, she deflected, she tucked it away, and she tucked it away for years.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't something that she could raise at the time.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: She wasn't able to raise it at the time.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: It didn't feel okay for her to bring it up.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: And there was also a layer of shame for her around voicing it and speaking out for lots of reasons.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: But together we've worked through that, and she has absolutely worked through the shame part of it with a therapist and released herself from the shame.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: So she doesn't feel shame when she reflects on this thing that happened between her and her now ex.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: She is actually angry and she's claiming it, and she wanted him to know about it.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: But back to my question to her.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because if that's what she's seeking, she already knows that.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: She already knows that the one big thing was messed up and that caused her pain.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: She already knows her truth around that thing.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: She already knows that his choices and behavior were hurtful and wrong.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's why they're not together.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: So if this is something that's coming up for you, if you are seeking closure or you're struggling because you don't have closure, what are you actually seeking?
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: Are you seeking an explanation, a reason?
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: You're asking, are you actually asking someone who hurt you, whether it was one big thing or a multitude of small things, asking someone who hurt you or who wasn't fully honest with you or who outright outright lied to you to explain that to you.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: That doesn't make any sense.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: You're asking them to tell you their version of the story.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: And if it is someone who's not been fully honest or open or has outright lied to you, you're expecting the truth from them.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: Again, that doesn't make any sense.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: You already know, you know the truth of your experience, and you can trust your own story, your recollection, your feelings, your experience.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: You can trust in that version of what happened because that is your truth.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: So seeking closure from someone who lied and hurt you is possibly, just quietly, actually you chasing validation of your own story, validation of your truth.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: So going back to my client, she wanted him to get it.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: She wanted him to get that his behaviour caused her pain, even if she hadn't been able to speak up about it at the time.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: But here's the next question I asked her.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: And this is gonna sound a little bit brutal, but it's not, it's always offered up with love and in a really supportive nurturing environment.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: Here's the next question: Whose responsibility is this?
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: And what I meant by that was was it actually her job to get him to see that his behaviour, his choice, his decision was messed up and something that caused her pain.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: It is not her job.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: And through our session, in the end, she actually came to that conclusion herself.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't tell her that.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: I asked her, whose responsibility is this?
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: Is this your responsibility?
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: And she came to the conclusion, I'm sorry, that it's not her job.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: Not my job.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: He should already know, and the fact that he doesn't know or doesn't acknowledge the one big thing was pretty hurtful and messed up, it's not my job to fix.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: The fact that he doesn't know or won't acknowledge the hurtful behavior is her closure.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: So instead, instead of her continuing down the path of seeking closure, this is what we did together.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: She and I in session then continued the solo work, and you can use the same process.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: So validate yourself and your own knowing, your own experience or recollection, your own story, your own feelings.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: Validate yourself.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: Also seek validation from trusted, reliable sources.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, of course, a coach, a therapist, a trusted friend.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: Your healing or your closure doesn't necessarily require the person who caused the pain to acknowledge your experience.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: It just needs someone to acknowledge the truth of your experience and your feelings.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: It needs you to acknowledge your own truth.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then if you then and then if you then if you also require the validation of an external person, choose someone who's trustworthy, someone who's trusted by you rather than the person who caused the pain.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: The next step is to feel it, like feel it all, all of the feelings.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: So if, like my client, you've pushed it down and suppressed it, there's going to be a whole lot of stuff that comes up around it.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, for her, it was working through the shame, for her, that it was working through being actually able to voice it, but to then go through that and become really, really angry.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: So feel all of the feelings around it.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: Acknowledge the emotions, the feelings, feel it in your body, feel it right through to the end.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: Feel the pain, the hurt, the anger, the rage, the disappointment, the sadness, whatever it is, and allow yourself to feel all of that without judgment, without pushing it down or away, without making it wrong.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: Give yourself full permission to feel and be whatever the hell you want to feel.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: You don't need someone else to allow that for you or to give you permission to feel any or all of that.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's already your truth.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: Those feelings are real and valid and perfectly okay for you to feel.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: Seeking closure is often us seeking permission to feel the way we feel about a certain experience.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: So just feel it.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: And just before we deep dive into the second part of this podcast episode, I want to remind you that there's always the opportunity to have a conversation with me, to book a free intro call.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: If this episode is bringing up things for you and you feel like you're ready to take the next step towards working one-on-one with me, there's a link in the show notes to book your free intro call and to discuss coaching options, and I would love to be able to support you.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: And the next part of what we did, or what I did with this client, was to work on handing it back.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: So we talked about responsibility, we talked about self-validation, we allowed all of those feelings that she had around that experience to be felt and to be acknowledged and to be validated, and then we handed it all back to the person who is actually responsible for that.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: So with her, I led her through a bit of a visualization.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: So whatever it is for you, the big thing or the multitude of small things, the pain, the hurt, the betrayal, visualise it as a real tangible thing.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: It could be a hook or a dart piercing your heart, it could be a black, murky cloud of or a pile of mud and muck or a great big heavy rock that you're carrying in a backpack, whatever it looks or feels like for you.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: Picture it as a real tangible thing, and then imagine, visualize sending or handing it back to the person who caused the pain or did the big thing.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: You can drop it at their feet, you can tip the mess of mud and muck over the top of them, pouring sludge over them, you can turn that dart back around and and send it towards back towards them.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: Let it be gone from you.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: So give it back, hand it back to the person who is actually responsible for this.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: Not with and not with vindictiveness or nastiness, but with the knowledge that this is not mine and I don't need to hold it anymore.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then the next step, of course, return the focus to you.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: Return the focus back onto yourself with kindness, with compassion for yourself.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: If you need to forgive yourself for pushing it down, pushing it away, for not acknowledging it in the moment, whatever.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: But turn that kindness and compassion back towards yourself because the other person, the other person's lack of capacity to apologize, their inability to acknowledge, their inability to own that pile of sludge or that arrow that pierced your heart to apologize, to make good, to see your point of view, to acknowledge the hurt that they caused you, it does not mean that you then need to go and convince them of your truth, of your worthiness.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what's really underpinning seeking closure at times.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: It is seeking that validation, trying to convince someone of your truth and of your worthiness for something better than what they gave, than what they did.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Let that thing go, whether it's one big thing or a multitude of small things, one big betrayal, a multitude of small hurts, let it go, send it back in their direction.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: Drop it figuratively at their feet.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: Let it go, then let them go.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: And that is closure.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: Because closure is not something that you get from someone else.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: Closure isn't something you're given.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually something that you create for yourself.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's something we create for ourselves.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: Your healing, your closure isn't actually dependent on someone, and in this case we're talking about your ex.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: It isn't dependent on someone else acknowledging the hurt they caused, the mistakes they made, or offering you an explanation or an apology, or reflecting back your truth to you.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: Trying to hold someone else accountable, trying to drag acknowledgement or apology from someone who simply doesn't want or isn't capable or doesn't have capacity or the self-awareness to give that to you is actually holding you back from your own healing and from creating your own closure.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: Seeking, hoping for, expecting the person who caused you the hurt and the harm and the pain, who let you down, who disappointed you, is actually holding you back from your own healing and from your creating your own closure.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: You can choose to heal yourself and you can choose to create closure, to heal and move forward even without validation from that person, even without the answers, even without hearing their excuses or potentially their apology, their remorse.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: But let's face it, if they didn't apologize during the relationship, and this beautiful client that I was speaking with this week, her ex never did, never apologized during the relationship.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: If they didn't own their own shit or show up or show remorse, apologize and make good during the relationship, how likely is it that they're going to start now, now that the relationship's over?
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: And here's the thing: you don't actually need them to in order for you to heal.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: And this is especially important and relevant if you're stepping out of a toxic and or abusive relationship.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: You can't go back and seek closure from that person.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: You just can't.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: You need to create closure for yourself and move forward so that you can do your own healing.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: So going back, do you really need this person who hurt you to say or to tell you, I hurt you, I'm sorry, and I feel bad that I did that?
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: Now you might want that, but do you need it?
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: Is it helpful?
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: You already know how painful the experience was.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: And my client knew.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: She knew how painful and how much hurt this big thing had caused.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: You don't need them to tell you what you already know.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: So again, are you seeking closure or are you seeking validation and permission to feel that pain?
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: Are you seeking permission to feel the pain?
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: Now you might want closure, you might want acknowledgement because you believe that there'll be an exhale, a release, and an end to or at least some relief from feeling the big hard feelings, the pain, once they've said whatever it is they're going to say.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: But here's the thing: that pain will actually still be there.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: That pain will still need to be healed.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: So the work, your inner work, will still need to be done.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: The power lies in healing ourselves without that other person's validation, explanation, or closure.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: Seeking closure or becoming fixated on some sort of, you know, tied off with a ribbon and sent off into the universe, conversation with your ex can actually contribute to keeping you stuck.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: Stuck not doing the work of healing, stuck in victim mode, stuck not living your life fully where you are, because you're giving up your power and outsourcing your healing to the behavior or the words of someone else.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: Someone who did the big bad thing, or countless small, bad, and sad things, or count let you down numerous times.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: You're outsourcing your healing and you're giving away your power to this thing or this person, expecting, hoping that they can give you closure.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: You take back your power and you begin to heal when you stop looking for that closure, when you stop seeking validation from that one person who caused the hurt and the harm, when you stop reaching out or hoping for understanding or empathy and validation from someone who is unwilling or unable, incapable, doesn't have capacity to give it.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: True closure is actually more about taking ownership of your own healing, creating a life full of what makes you sing, whatever makes you light up, whatever sets your soul on fire, creating that version of your life.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: So finally, back to my beautiful client, she has come full circle, and her most recent message to me, and I share this here with her full permission, was I don't need closure from him, I don't need him to hear me.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: He should have heard me back then, he should already know that it was a really shitty thing to do.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: It was so so wrong and that it caused me so much pain.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: And he's the kicker.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not going to be his mother and help him see that if he can't already see it for himself.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: I've got better things to do and other places to spend my time, my effort, and my energy.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: That is closure.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: There's a post going around on Instagram at the moment.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's from at self-love healer, and it goes like this.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: The lack of respect was the closure.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: The lack of apology was the closure.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: The lack of care was the closure.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: The lack of accountability was the closure.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: The lack of honesty was the closure.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I would add, the lack of effort was the closure.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: The lack of kindness, compassion, or concern for you and for your feelings was the closure.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: The lack of willingness to meet you in the hard parts of your relationship and have the hard conversations and move through the conflict was the closure.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: The lack of capacity to see, hold, hear, and be there for all of you was the closure.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: Their lack of choosing you is the closure.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: And finally, you choosing you is the closure.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: As always, thank you for being here.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: I hope that you have gained something from this podcast episode.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: And if you know somebody who would benefit from listening to it, please, please share it.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Sally Ann Hartnell, Relationship Coach, and you've been listening to Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: You can follow me on Instagram at Reflect Coaching, and if you can think of anyone who would love this episode, please, please share it with them.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'd also be so grateful if you'd follow the podcast and review this episode so we can get it in the ears of a whole lot more humans just like you who are ready to reclaim and liberate themselves in life and love.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you'll join me next time for another episode of Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: Until then