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The Diminishing Returns of Date Setting the Rapture | Lee Brainard · The Week in Bible Prophecy

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  Speaker 1: The Week in Bible Prophecy, a Prophecy Watchers podcast.
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  Speaker 2: Well, welcome to the podcast everybody, And before we get started,
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  Speaker 2: want to encourage you to make sure to subscribe to
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  Speaker 2: our channel. We have a lot of fun things going
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  Speaker 2: on here and today I have Lee Brainer with me.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome Lee Mando.
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  Speaker 1: It's good to be here again. I always enjoy my
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  Speaker 1: time with the Prophecy Watch your family.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, we've done some good stuff already, and so here
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  Speaker 2: we are on another podcast. But before we get started,
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  Speaker 2: let people know where they can find out about all
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  Speaker 2: the stuff you're doing ministry and website and YouTube and
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  Speaker 2: all that.
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  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, they can go to my YouTube channel, which
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  Speaker 1: is Soothkeep, or they can go to my website soothkeep
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  Speaker 1: dot info. I have a lot of articles, I have
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  Speaker 1: a lot of good videos on subjects that are of
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  Speaker 1: interest to those that love Bible prophecy.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's awesome. And today we want to talk about
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  Speaker 2: date setting, because let's just put out right up there.
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  Speaker 2: If somebody offered you the date the Lord came and said, Lee,
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  Speaker 2: I'll give you the date of the Lord's your would
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  Speaker 2: you want to know?
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  Speaker 1: Well, the first thing that happens, brother, when I do
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  Speaker 1: get this on a regular basis. People send me emails
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  Speaker 1: they should be watched this video where you need to
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  Speaker 1: watch my video. And I don't want to sound mean
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  Speaker 1: or harsh, but it's all I can do to not
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  Speaker 1: roll my eyeballs, brother, because I honestly believe, as we
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  Speaker 1: read a Matthew twenty four thirty six, that no one
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  Speaker 1: knows the dane or the hour. This is a concrete principle.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, so you know, I think that I resonate because
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  Speaker 2: I was a date center at one time. I got
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  Speaker 2: saved in the early nineties. And why was I dead
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  Speaker 2: sitting nut because I wasn't I didn't have a YouTube channel,
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  Speaker 2: I wasn't even pastoring. I simply just wanted to know,
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  Speaker 2: and it's exciting. It'd be great to know in advance.
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  Speaker 2: And so I understand people's zeal. Absolutely, I get it.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, surely we know in Matthew sixteen that Jesus
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  Speaker 2: schooled the Pharisees for not knowing about his return, and
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  Speaker 2: so it is good to be watching. But when it
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  Speaker 2: comes to date setting my because of Matthew twenty twenty
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  Speaker 2: four to thirty six, I just encourage people don't get
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  Speaker 2: sucked into it because it's exciting. But every time, well,
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  Speaker 2: here we are, no date so far has been right.
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  Speaker 1: That's right. We've got about ten years since there's been
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  Speaker 1: a steady stream of YouTube date setters, at least ten years,
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  Speaker 1: and every year we have dozens of iterations of theories
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  Speaker 1: and that's all struck out.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. So now the other thing too is if if
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  Speaker 2: five billion people decided all of us are going to
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  Speaker 2: choose a date for the next five billion days, one
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  Speaker 2: of us would get lucky. That's right, exactly, Okay, would
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  Speaker 2: get ucky. So people say, well, if somebody, if somebody
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  Speaker 2: puts forth a date, well I guess it can't be
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  Speaker 2: that date. I don't think that's what Jesus saying, because again,
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  Speaker 2: if five then people have picked a date, somebody's gonna
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  Speaker 2: get lucky. What Jesus is simply saying. And this is
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  Speaker 2: good for background in Matthew twenty four and I've talked
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  Speaker 2: about this at the preachrib that the context there from
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  Speaker 2: Luke twenty one is that Jesus says, you know, don't
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  Speaker 2: get caught up into debauchery, et cetera, that that day
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  Speaker 2: overtake you as a snare, as a trap. Pray that
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  Speaker 2: sh you be counterworthy to escape all these things. But
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  Speaker 2: then if you compare the Gospels, the context is the
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  Speaker 2: Day of the Lord and the smoothness of the all
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  Speaker 2: of that discourse in harmony the next verses, but of
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  Speaker 2: that day and hour no one knows. He's talking about
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  Speaker 2: the Day of the Lord that nobody knows when it's
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  Speaker 2: going to start. But we know as preacher people that
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  Speaker 2: the rapture's gonna happen prior. So what's true about the
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  Speaker 2: Day of the Lord nobody knowing when it's going to rive?
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  Speaker 2: Is it's true about the rapture as well.
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  Speaker 1: It's even more true because we have no idea how
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  Speaker 1: long that window is.
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  Speaker 2: Yep, So let's talk about we can go back to
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  Speaker 2: some of the failures. Eight reasons why Jesus is coming
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  Speaker 2: back in nineteen eighty eight, you know, And then you
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  Speaker 2: have Harold Camping. I remember reading a book in nineteen
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  Speaker 2: ninety four, and I remember getting really excited. I just
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  Speaker 2: got saved. But then I remember I was pastoring in
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  Speaker 2: I think it was this twenty eleven, May, May twenty
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  Speaker 2: first or something. In twenty eleven, Harold Camping was back
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  Speaker 2: on the bandwagon, I mean billboards, I was living in Illinois,
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  Speaker 2: billboards around and of course Jesus is coming back guaranteed.
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  Speaker 2: So these people are just wrong. Now we do know
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  Speaker 2: that it's real, yes, but the idea of calculating it
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  Speaker 2: out with certainty. There was another guy last May. He
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  Speaker 2: said the rapture's happening in June and it was going
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  Speaker 2: to coincide with the FISA Pentecost and I remember writing
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  Speaker 2: him and I was very nice. But on his YouTube channel,
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  Speaker 2: I said, hey, man, I go, I encourage you not
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  Speaker 2: to date set because I said, if it doesn't come
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  Speaker 2: to pass, I said, I'll be right, man, I want
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  Speaker 2: the rapture today. If it doesn't come to pass, will
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  Speaker 2: you come back here and publicly apologize? And he just
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  Speaker 2: deleted my comments and I'm like, look, man, I was
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  Speaker 2: being nice. I'm just simply asking because every time that
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  Speaker 2: somebody does that and it fails, how does it you
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  Speaker 2: tell me, how does it interfere with our ministry?
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  Speaker 1: Well, what I find is and the one that strikes
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  Speaker 1: out to me or stands out to me the most
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  Speaker 1: is last fall with the feast of trumpets and the
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  Speaker 1: supposed Shamida cycle.
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  Speaker 2: Yep.
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  Speaker 1: And they were some of them said, well, we're relatively sure.
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  Speaker 1: Some of them we think this is just a good
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  Speaker 1: high watch time, but there's others said absolutely guarantee the
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  Speaker 1: rapture's going to happen. Well, they're just I can understand
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  Speaker 1: from one perspective. They're excited about the coming of the
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  Speaker 1: Lord and they hope it happens tomorrow, and every little
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  Speaker 1: excuse for looking at a near term rapture date. They're
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  Speaker 1: all over it because they want the Lord to come.
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  Speaker 1: And I get that part of it. But what I
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  Speaker 1: don't get, and it bothers me, is I get a
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  Speaker 1: steady stream of letters from people who are following their
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  Speaker 1: favorite YouTube preacher and following their date setting for you know,
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  Speaker 1: the last two years, three years. They got tired that five, six, seven, eight,
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  Speaker 1: ten dates that they set their heart on have collapsed
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  Speaker 1: and they are discouraged waiting for the Lord. And that
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  Speaker 1: discouragement is to me, tells us there's something wrong with
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  Speaker 1: this date setting mentality because it leads to a river
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  Speaker 1: of discouragement.
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  Speaker 2: Yep. And I think that I have a friend of
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  Speaker 2: mine who really enjoy He grew up Baptist, grew up
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  Speaker 2: in the seventies in the Baptist Church, grew up in
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  Speaker 2: the in the how Lindsay Late Great Planet Earth book,
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  Speaker 2: and so I was. I went to school with him
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  Speaker 2: in around two thousand and eight, and I was talking about,
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  Speaker 2: you know, the prophecy and you know all the things
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  Speaker 2: that were happening. He goes, you know, Mona, they've been
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  Speaker 2: saying that's as long as I've been alive. He goes,
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  Speaker 2: I've just burned out on all of it. And so
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  Speaker 2: he not need to give up his faith, but he
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  Speaker 2: gave up the idea of even watching. But what's the
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  Speaker 2: mistake there? I mean, why why are you not burned
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  Speaker 2: out on waiting for the Lord?
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  Speaker 1: Well, my understanding is that I see evidence that the
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  Speaker 1: coming of the Lord is near. I've been watching it
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  Speaker 1: since the early eighties. Is a babe in the Lord
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  Speaker 1: with the early stage setting for the coming tribulation. This
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  Speaker 1: stuff has been slowly developing, and back in the eighties
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  Speaker 1: and nineties when people were set in hard rapture dates,
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  Speaker 1: I'd look at that and I say, the stage is
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  Speaker 1: barely started to get set. It doesn't make sense to me.
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  Speaker 1: And so I'm looking at a general prophetic convergence. The
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  Speaker 1: trying to set a date is not in my radar.
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  Speaker 1: It doesn't fit my theology, doesn't fit my eschatology, doesn't
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  Speaker 1: fit my ecclesiology, it doesn't fit anywhere. It doesn't resonate
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  Speaker 1: with me. It doesn't make sense to me. The idea
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  Speaker 1: that people want to see the Lord come real soon
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  Speaker 1: make sense to me because they'll say, well, I want
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  Speaker 1: the Lord to come this week, I want them to
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  Speaker 1: come today.
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  Speaker 2: Amen, I do too, Yeah, let's go over ready. But
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  Speaker 2: in my mind, I just.
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  Speaker 1: See that it's detrimental in the long run. And what
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  Speaker 1: is preserved me is I've got my eyes set not
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  Speaker 1: on any particular dates so I can be discouraged and
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  Speaker 1: have my hopes let down. All I see is this
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  Speaker 1: convergence getting stronger and stronger, and that tells me, just
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  Speaker 1: like when the signs of a volcanic eruption, they get
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  Speaker 1: closer together, they get stronger in their intensity, When they
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  Speaker 1: get more diversified in the variation, you know that eruption
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  Speaker 1: is coming soon. Well, we see the number of signs
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  Speaker 1: are multiplying. We see that the signs are getting closer together,
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  Speaker 1: we see there's more intensity in them. We know the
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  Speaker 1: raptures coming. We keep our eyes on that. We will
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  Speaker 1: never get let down.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, you couldn't say better the I think about me.
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  Speaker 2: You know, I've been watching for the same thing for
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  Speaker 2: thirty years, but I've given up on the date setting
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  Speaker 2: or even really trying to find out. A lot of
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  Speaker 2: people spend a lot of time calculations, and you're like,
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  Speaker 2: don't do that. Yeah, if you want to avoid getting
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  Speaker 2: burned out or being discs or having a let down,
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  Speaker 2: just give up the whole idea of trying to find
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  Speaker 2: a date. Now, let's let me play devil's advocate against
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  Speaker 2: you here, Lee. Yeah, I can play the devil. I
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  Speaker 2: wrote a book on the Screwtape letter, so I understand
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  Speaker 2: his strategies. Yeah, so you know, Lee, you're wrong here.
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  Speaker 2: You can because didn't Paul say I can quote scripture
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  Speaker 2: being the devil. Didn't Paul say in fir Thessalians five
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  Speaker 2: that we know the times in the seasons that we're
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  Speaker 2: not in darkness. So what's up with that?
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  Speaker 1: Well, we do know all the times and seasons, but
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  Speaker 1: knowing the times plural and the seasons plural, which is
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  Speaker 1: the same thing that we talk about the signs of
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  Speaker 1: the times. Okay, that's what he's dealing with. And once
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  Speaker 1: you get into that era that he's talking about. You'll
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  Speaker 1: you'll see a definite start for the four I mean
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  Speaker 1: the rapture of the church, that is the morning star
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  Speaker 1: of the day of the Lord. When when you see, uh,
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  Speaker 1: the Antichrist revealed, he makes that uh uh, he's going
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  Speaker 1: to make the Covenant. Okay, now we know the seven
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  Speaker 1: years have begun. We're going to see him sit in
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  Speaker 1: the middle of the week in the temple and declare
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  Speaker 1: himself God. We know we're halfway through. We're dealing with
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  Speaker 1: some definite events that can be put on a definite timetable,
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  Speaker 1: and that's what he's talking about.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, okay, So I'll play another Devil's advocate at you.
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  Speaker 2: We know that according to the seventy weeks Prophecy, the
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  Speaker 2: first sixty nine weeks, I'll read you a passage here
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  Speaker 2: when we look at Sir Robert Anderson's work you eighteen
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  Speaker 2: ninety seven he wrote a book called The Coming Prince,
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  Speaker 2: and a lot of people have done work on that
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  Speaker 2: where sixty nine weeks you calculate out, it's one hundred
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  Speaker 2: and seventy and eighty days you started on. Well, he
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  Speaker 2: had started it on four to forty five BC. Other
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  Speaker 2: scholars like Harold Honer have come and said, no, it's
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  Speaker 2: really March fourteenth, four forty four BC. But that comes
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  Speaker 2: to the exact date in thirty three eighty. Yes, okay,
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  Speaker 2: passover the triumphal Entry. And Jesus says here in Luke nineteen,
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  Speaker 2: when he drew near and saw the city, he wept
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  Speaker 2: over it, saying, would that you even you had known
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  Speaker 2: on this day the things that make for your peace,
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  Speaker 2: but now they are hidden from your eyes. So one
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  Speaker 2: of the things that Sir Robert Anderson discussed was that
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  Speaker 2: the triumphal Entry happened on the exact day of the
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  Speaker 2: fulfillment of the sixty nine weeks. So Jesus, they could
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  Speaker 2: have predicted based on that mathematical formulation, that Jesus was
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  Speaker 2: arriving on a certain day. So why can't we do
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  Speaker 2: the same for the second company.
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  Speaker 1: Well, I like to always step back and realize that
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  Speaker 1: there's a distinction between the timetable the Lord has for
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  Speaker 1: the Jewish people and the timetable that he has for
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  Speaker 1: the Church. If we notice that the sixty nine weeks,
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  Speaker 1: if this is correct, ended on the day of the
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  Speaker 1: triumphant Entry.
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  Speaker 2: For the sake of argument, let's go with it.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, Then we have a window of time. He's crucified
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  Speaker 1: after the sixty ninth week, and then we come into
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  Speaker 1: the fall of Jerusalem in seventy eight. We haven't come
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  Speaker 1: to the last seven years yet. So the church fits
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  Speaker 1: into this time, this parenthesis of time. And there's nothing
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  Speaker 1: in the scripture that gives us any timetable information for
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  Speaker 1: that era. But there's a lot of stuff that gives
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  Speaker 1: us from the Cross backwards and from the beginning of
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  Speaker 1: the seventieth week forwards with Israel.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think what I would say. And again people meanwhile,
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  Speaker 2: which is great, and it's a good question, But Gabriel
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  Speaker 2: gave Daniel a mathematical prophecy.
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  Speaker 1: That's right. We haven't been given that exactly.
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  Speaker 2: There's nothing. I mean, think about how overt this is.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, it's in scripture Daniel nine. Anybody go there
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  Speaker 2: looking at it and calculated. But when you come to
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  Speaker 2: the Second Coming or the start of the seventieth week, ye,
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  Speaker 2: Daniel did not. He was not given by the Angel. Hey,
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  Speaker 2: by the way, after the sixty ninth week is over,
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  Speaker 2: I've given you that prophecy exactly, And we see those
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  Speaker 2: inter intervening events that you described. He doesn't say, by
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  Speaker 2: the way, this is how you're going to know mathematically
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  Speaker 2: the starts of the seventieth week. There's nowhere else in
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  Speaker 2: scripture in the New Testament that gives us that mathematical equation.
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  Speaker 2: So God could have given that to us. And but
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  Speaker 2: some people he like he did Gabriel tell this to Daniel.
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  Speaker 2: Some people feel that it's their calling that even though
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  Speaker 2: God didn't give it overtly, like Gabriel to Daniel, they're
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  Speaker 2: going to find it hidden. And so I'm like, oh,
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  Speaker 2: so people are some people are just determined to find
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  Speaker 2: and to find this date. And there's so let's talk
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  Speaker 2: about some of those some of these calculations that people make,
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  Speaker 2: which let's say, right, hey, guys, in a loving way,
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  Speaker 2: just stop, just stop. Jesus said, no one knows the
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  Speaker 2: day of that hour. He didn't say, I want to
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  Speaker 2: challenge you to go figure it out that we do
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  Speaker 2: not know. There's some interesting things, but some of the
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  Speaker 2: things that have been spoken of in past. The blood moons. Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: let's talk about the blood moons that happen in twenty
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  Speaker 2: fourteen and fifteen.
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  Speaker 1: And there's still every year there's new blood moon theories. Well,
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  Speaker 1: what's interesting to me when I look at the prophecies
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  Speaker 1: that mention the blood moons. They're in the Day of
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  Speaker 1: the Lord prophecies where the sun's going to be turned
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  Speaker 1: black and the moon's going to be turned blood red.
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  Speaker 1: That blood moon that we have there is a one off,
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  Speaker 1: unique prophetic phenomenon. It may have had a typology in
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  Speaker 1: Deep Old Testament times, like associated with the flood or
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  Speaker 1: the end of the Gold Age or the end of
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  Speaker 1: the Bronze Age or something, but it's not something that
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  Speaker 1: we continually see, this blood moon phenomenon, where you might
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  Speaker 1: have a year without any blood moons. A lot of
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  Speaker 1: years have one or two. Occasionally have a year that
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: has three or more blood moons, but these are common
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: phenomenon and to me, it's well, I hate to use
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  Speaker 1: the word ridiculous, but I can't think of any other
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  Speaker 1: word off the top of my head. To think that
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  Speaker 1: those blood moons have anything to do with dating. The
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  Speaker 1: rapture is it's I don't even know how to process that.
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  Speaker 2: So let's let's talk about that, because you know, I
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  Speaker 2: love astronomy and the moon in general will turn blood
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  Speaker 2: blood red on an eclipse, on a lunar eclipse, and
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  Speaker 2: because the Sun is shining light, the Earth is getting
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  Speaker 2: in the way and the sun is basically the Sun's
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  Speaker 2: light is refracting around the Earth's atmosphere and then it's
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  Speaker 2: coming which causes it to turn red because of the
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  Speaker 2: the diffraction on the scattering of the light. So it
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  Speaker 2: comes up and then that red light shines on the
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  Speaker 2: surface of the Moon and it's beautiful. I have lots
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  Speaker 2: of great pictures of the of a blood moon, but
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  Speaker 2: what you see there when it says that the Earth
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  Speaker 2: the sun will turn dark and the moon will turn
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  Speaker 2: to blood. So if the Sun turns dark, you can't
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  Speaker 2: have the moon turning to blood because there's no light
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  Speaker 2: to go around. So, like you said, this is a
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  Speaker 2: very supernatural, unique event where somehow the Sun goes dark,
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  Speaker 2: but yet the moon is turning blood red. Of what
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  Speaker 2: you know of how God makes that happen. Even the
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  Speaker 2: idea of the Sun turning black, that's not anything that
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  Speaker 2: we've seen astronomically looking at stellar physics of the Sun
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  Speaker 2: going black. It's supernatural. Well in fact that it talks
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  Speaker 2: about all the stars going dark, like the universe goes dark.
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  Speaker 2: That's amazing.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, it is Yeah, And I think if we once
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  Speaker 1: understand that he's talking about a set of one off
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  Speaker 1: signs that's going to happen on one particular time at
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  Speaker 1: the end of the age, that's what he's referring to.
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  Speaker 1: And so to use those signs that really are associated
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  Speaker 1: with the second coming, and then to use a watered
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  Speaker 1: down version of any one of those signs to locate
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  Speaker 1: the rapture, we're often two different parameters.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. What I see too is I remember in twenty
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  Speaker 2: fourteen and fifteen. Well, if you look at all of them,
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  Speaker 2: you know they occurred in fourteen ninety one, there was
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  Speaker 2: some that occurred in nineteen forty nine, some others that
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  Speaker 2: incurred in sixty seven. So there is some interesting parallels
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: where these four blood moons happened to coincide on the
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: fall feasts. Ye okay, No, I find that very interesting.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: I do, I find okay. But if you look and
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: you try to make a correlation, they all the existence
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: of these moons happened after, Like they didn't happen before
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: Israel became a nation. They happened in forty nine and
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: fifty after Israel, and they happened in sixty seven and
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: sixty eight after Jerusalem was and then in fourteen ninety one,
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: I think it was ninety fourteen ninety two, ninety three,
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: ninety three after the Jews got kicked out. So here
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: they happened in fourteen fifteen, So what happened in twenty
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: and thirteen we don't know. So those signs, if you're
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: going to follow the pattern, yeah, we're came after something
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: supposedly significant. But now we're way removed from those signs
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: of the four blood moons, and they appear again, as
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: you said, they're not absolutely never happened before in the
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: history of humanity. We know, we can calculate I have
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: still or anybody can look it up. But again, let's
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: go let's go to another angle. Okay, so we have
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: people trying to use astronomy. If you're trying to use
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: blood moons, they're trying to use other things. You have
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: the other aspect. Let's talk about the fact that did
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: Jesus fulfill the spring feasts exactly and the feast of
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: Pentecost Colossians two sixteen. Let no one judge you food
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: or drink, or sabbath or as it relates to a
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: festival for these or the shadow. But Christ is the substance.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: So Jesus, let's talk about that.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, absolutely, the Lord Jesus fulfilled the springs and Pentecost.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: There's just no doubt about it.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: You can't to the detail, to its perfect, to the hour.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: That's exactly right, and it's oftentimes understood. The saying is well,
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: the spring feasts and Pentecost are fulfilled in the Church,
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: the fall feasts are going to be fulfilled in Israel. Well,
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: this mentality I never quite registered with me, because in
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: my mind, I'm thinking, either they all have to all
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: of them have to apply to Israel, or all of
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: them have to apply the Church, or all of them
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: have to apply to both. You can't have some going
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: one way and some going the other way. Particularly, why
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: would you have Jewish feasts that actually we're going to
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: have their primary fulfillment, their typeological fulfillment in the Church.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: So what's interesting to me is I notice that those feasts,
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: the early ones, were fulfilled in Israel, and Pentecost was
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: fulfilled with the Jewish remnant. There was no gentile, no gentiles,
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: and according to Ephesians chapter two, the one New Man
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: had not been formed yet, So technically the Church was
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: not technically begun on Pentecost. The Church was technically begun
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: when the first Gentiles were grafted in.
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: Okay, so we have I mean, let me, let's say
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: that even if the church was on X two, the plan,
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: i mean, the plan of bringing in the Gentiles wasn't
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: there yet. But the fact that the Pentecosts happened, the
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: Holy Spirit came. There was a new work, the New Covenant,
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: that New Age right in Acts chapter three, This this
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: new Age that Jesus is waiting until the time of restitution.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: So you do have the New Covenant being extended clearly
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: to the Jewish people first, but there were also we
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: know that there was Jews from every every group, you know,
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: every region or lust most regions. And it goes out.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: But so but we do people forget that gentiles us
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: that we're still saved through Jewish covenants. The New Covenant
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: is not a Gentile covenant. It's a Jewish Covenant Jeremiah
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: thirty one. So the idea that somehow then the the rapture,
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: let's talk about that. The feast of trumpets. Okay, this
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: is the next fault. This is the next feast in
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: line to potentially be fulfilled. We see the other ones
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: being fulfilled at Jesus' first coming. When we come to
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: the second coming, the feast of trumpets is is it's
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: a trumpet? Don't we know that the rapture is a trumpet?
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: So people naturally, I understand that they would gravitate towards
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: at the last trumpet, the the godola, the grand trumpet
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: at the end. So isn't that proof that the rapture
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: then is going to happen on the feast of trumpets?
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: No, because if you go down that path, my mind
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: goes a different way, and which contrasts because I think, okay,
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: if there's really a distinction between us are and the Church,
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: there's going to be two last trumpets, Israel's last trumpet
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: the Church's last trumpet. There's not necessarily any correlation between
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: them at all. We don't have anything that clearly tells
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: us what the last trumpet is.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: See. You know, I think nailed it there because we
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: assume that when Paul says the last trump in Firstraeten's fifteen,
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: that that's automatically connected to the feast of trumpets. Yeah,
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: does it have to be? Is there anything in the
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: text it tells us go look at the feast.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: No, there isn't, no, for sure not, And I think
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: there's different ways it could go. Who knows what that
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: last trumpet is is if we're trying to make an
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: analogy based on the Jewish feast, we may actually be
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: far astray. All this is is a signal that is
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: time to gather the church, and the Lord can put
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: that wherever he pleases. Personally, well, I appreciate the folks
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: that are looking for the rapture associated with one of
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: the Jewish feasts, and I understand that thought pattern myself.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: I think that the rapture of the Church is going
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: to be not associated at all with any Jewish feast. States.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: When the Lord ascended to heaven, when our head went
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: to heaven, it was not associated with any Jewish feast. State.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: It was after Pentecost, was before the Fall, the first
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: Fall feast, And I think the same thing is going
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: to happen with the Church. We're not when when we
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: go up to meet the Lord in the clouds, when
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: the body joins the head and we come the full
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: stature of the full Man, that's not going to be associated,
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: in my estimation, with any particular Jewish feast ate.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: So let me see if I heard you. Correct, you
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: said that Jesus as the head ascended, but you said
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: after Pentecost, but we know it was before, right, Jesus sented,
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, okay, I know somebody's going to hear it
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: and be like he said after, No, you meant you
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: mean before? Yeah, okay, so so yes, before. Well, so
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: let's talk.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: About because what's confusing is he goes up and the
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: spirit comes direct. Yes, yep, so I got that twisted.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: That's fine.
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: I just sad people.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: I don't want people, even you. Okay, well correct it
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: right here. So let's talk about this for a minute.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: When we look at the fall festivals, what's the typical
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: idea I'm not saying you agree with it, but what's
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: the typical idea of how the Fall feasts are fulfilled?
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: So the feast of trumpets, what's what's kind of a
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: typical viewpoint of how that's fulfilled. What do people say, Like,
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: they say it's the rapture, right.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, okay, that's where you're going. Yeah, they think
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: it's going to be the rapture of the church. But
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: if we go down that path, if the If the
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: first feast of the feast of trumpets is the signal
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: for the church to go up, then what are we
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: going to associate the next two feasts?
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: So let's talk about it. What's I like to understand
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: people's thinking, whether I agree with him or not. So
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: the next feast in line is the day of Atonement
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: ten days later, right?
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: What how is the day of Atonement fulfilled in that
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: scheme of thinking?
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: Well, that is a little confusing to me, and I
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: actually haven't seen anything that would really try and make
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: a clear explanation of it, because.
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: In my my.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: Understanding is the Atonement's already made for the church. It's
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: already been applied to us. We don't need atonement applied
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: to us. It makes more sense if you go down
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: the Jewish path and the Lord is dealing with the
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: freshly saved remnant in the tribulation, and they have their
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: feast of trumpets, and then they have the Atonement, and
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: it doesn't matter whether you're going to put this beginning
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: of the tribulation or towards the end of the tribulation,
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: but you're going to have that redeemed remnant brought into
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: the New Covenant.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that the challenge. I mean, I like
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: the idea because clearly the feasts were fulfilled in the
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: first coming, we see that. But when you come to
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: the second coming or the fall feast, it's like, Okay,
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: even if you had the rapture being associated with the
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: feast of trumpets happening on a specific day, with the
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: day of Atonement, you're like, well, most of what I've
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: seen is well that's the tribulation period. And you're like, okay, well,
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: now we just we change the figurative because the day
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: of Atonement is a singular day. The day of Passover
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: was a singular day's feast of Pentecost was a singular
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: day Passover, et cetera, pass Over on lemon bread, and
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: even the feast of first roots very specific day. So
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: day of Atonement it's a specific day. So why now
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: are we extrapolating the one day to seven years?
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: And then what does going through the tribulation have to
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: do with atom agreed?
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: And exactly so, even when you come to the that's
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: the challenging part. And I'm not saying I know the answer.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: I do think the first ones are fulfilled, but as
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: it relates to the mystery of how the fall ones
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: are fulfilled. I'm not interested in going figurative because I'm
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: not going to change the rules in the middle of
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: the game. But secondly, when you come to the Feast
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: of Tabernacles, excuse me the that's a seven day feast, right,
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: it's it's a feast of dwelling. People say, oh, that's
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: the millennium. Well, now we're taking a seven day feast
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: and we're fulfilling it in ato a thousand year period. Yep,
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: I mean you see, that's that's the best that I
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: can see. And I think the reason why it's because
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: the scripture doesn't explicitly say how it's going to happen,
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: so people are left to speculate, and soon they speculate.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: Now they're going figurative, which is I'm not interested in that.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it is a tremendous difficulty, and I empathize
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: with people that want to try and grab a date
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: and why they gravitate towards dates. They don't want the
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: rapture to happen three years out, five years old. A
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: lot of these people are putting out dates that are
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: a few months or a few weeks in the future.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: They want it to happen soon, and I empathize with that,
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: but again for me, the big danger. You might find
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: encouragement in these in jumping from rapture date to rapture date,
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: but if you start looking, you're going to find a
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: whole string of people that get burned out.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: So let's talk about another one that people have, and
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: that is they look at whether it's the shmita year
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: or the A scene calendar, you look at some of these.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: The other aspect is as it relates to Jesus' death,
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: the date of his death, which usually it's the thirty
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: thirty eight D. Some say thirty two thirty three, but
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: I think most likely the best date is thirty three.
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: So if that's the case, then thirty three minus seven
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: vois la twenty twenty six is the rapture because that
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: age of two thousand years has to end by thirty
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: three a D. Now we can wrap it in a
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: way that's nice, bow make it look really good. But
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: is there any is there any absolute evidence that there's
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: a two thousand year chunk here, two thousand year from
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: Abraham to Jesus in two thousand years before. It is
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: not tight, air tight at all.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: No when you look at the two thousand from the
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: creation to Abraham, from Abraham to the Cross, from the cross,
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: then that gets a little more complicated. I do kind
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: of like the six thousand years I reave myself, but.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: It doesn't match air tight wise.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: The only place that seems to match for me is
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: from the garden to the cross and from the Cross
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: to the Kingdom. But I like to tell people, I said,
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: I like this theory. I think the theory is in general,
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: it's accurate. There's not a problem with the theory. The
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: problem is do I have all the information that belongs
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: in the equation. I mean, because we start touching on
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: the cross dates. There's actually a few people that think
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: that the cross date probably was thirty four eighty. Now
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: I think thirty three idea is more likely the accurate date.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: But we don't know for absolute certain the cross date.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: We don't know the length of the window between the
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: rapture and the beginning of the seventieth week. So you
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: could be right in this theory and you could still
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: be three years off of the rapture.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and see so that here again, I think both
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: of us we appreciate the zeal. Yeah, people have for
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: the Lord's return. We're excited too. That's why we're doing
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: That's why our lives are involved in this. We're excited
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: for the Lord's return. But we also see the lack
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: of wisdom in putting out a date. When Jesus said,
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: no one knows, the other people take it as a challenge.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: I think, like that, they're challenged. I'm gonna find it.
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: But yet it seemed it would be so contract, so
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: contradictory that if some people say, well, Jesus said back
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: then no one knows the day of the hour, and
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: no one knows neither me my father in heaven. But
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: that was then we can know. Now you're like, really, well, to.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: Me, what's interesting about this. I've watched these rapture dates
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: come and go. I've been watching them come and go
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: for years, and some of the dates have been put out.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: I've challenged some of my friends. Some of my friends
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: have that I know through YouTube, have been involved in
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: some of this date setting and they're not saying this,
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: I think for certain this is the rapture date. But
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: they thought it was really like a high watch time
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: and they're excited about it. And you know, I hate
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: the poor cold water and this kind of stuff. But
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: I said, brother, I just hate to say this. I think,
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: or sometimes there's brothers, this date's going to come and
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: go because I think the way the Lord has arranged this,
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: I think the rapture is going to happen when we're
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: about burned out on date setting.
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: Well you know what I find interesting and people can
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: look us up Luke twelve, Matthew twenty four. Jesus said,
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: I will come at a time that you are not thinking.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So I don't know what that really means, but
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: it's coming at a time that's that's going to be
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: relatively speaking, a surprise, because we're not going to be surrised.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: If Jesus came back tomorrow, we'd be like, oh, well
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: we were ready. Yeah, so we know the signs are there,
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: but he's I'm going to come at a time when
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: you think not.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: And how I've grappled with that. This is my understanding
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: of it. When that rapture day happens, it's not going
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: to be associated with any of the things that we
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: typically make rapture dates based on. Yep, it's going to
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: be off calendar.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: And what we know is again from the all of
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: a discourse. It's going to be coming at a time
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: of relative common living or normal living.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: You know they're planting, eating, drinking, giving a marriage building.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: Relative Now, not that there's not troubles, but relative compared
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: to the tribulation. Yeah, which is the greatest time a
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: time of trouble in the history of the universe.
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: And this might be worth adding to the conversation too,
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: because I tend to like the six thousand year theory,
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: and there's four thousand years from the from the garden
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: to the cross, in two thousand years from the Cross
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: to the kingdom, and then you get the tribulation. You
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: back up, and then you have no idea how long
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: that rapture window is. But people, so let's say that
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: we're assuming that this, we think this there is true,
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: and we're following this, and so we say, well, the
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: rapture can't happen any later than spring of twenty twenty six, yep. Okay,
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: And what happens if my raptor.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: Date comes and goes yep.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: Well, it's not going to be any sweat off my
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: back because I'm just going to assume I miss something. Yeah,
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: that's all I'm gonna assume.
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, final words, Lee, here we are. I mean
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: you're the people that are out there that are so eager.
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: I mean you get them too. They got their grafts,
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: they got their Excel sheet, they're calculating out, they're looking
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: at stillarium, they're looking at astronomy counsel today.
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: Well, I would just like to encourage them. If you
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: get excited, this encourages you and your study of the
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: Lord and your desire to see him come. If this
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: is advancing you somehow, that's fine, that's between you and
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: the Lord. But I'd like to encourage you to be
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: very careful when you present these possible rapture dates because
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: I get a lot of letters from people that are
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: discouraged from the date setting, and maybe you will start
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: getting some letters too.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: Just keep your eyes on the general prophetic convergence and
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: don't get too caught up in the dates.
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: Yep. Jesus told us to watch, and that is true,
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: but he didn't tell us to set dates.
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: That's exactly right, Lee, soothkeep.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: Dot Info appreciate you coming today and doing this podcast,
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: and everybody else thank you for watching. Make sure you
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: subscribe to the channel. We've got a lot of good
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: stuff coming see you next time.