Latest / Motherhood Uncut / Taking What Our Kids Do, Say, and Feel Personally | Motherhood Uncut Podcast | Season 3 Episode 11

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Taking What Our Kids Do, Say, and Feel Personally | Motherhood Uncut Podcast | Season 3 Episode 11 · Motherhood Uncut

0:00
SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the Motherhood Uncut Podcast.
0:02
SPEAKER_02: In this podcast, Deb Rubin and I, Kate Kripke, bring to you all those conversations that you know you might have with your best friend or your sister or someone that you're just needing to talk about the real stuff in motherhood with.
0:19
SPEAKER_02: We're gonna bring to you conversations that are gonna make you laugh.
0:24
SPEAKER_02: We love to laugh, probably make you cry and cry in the best of ways, move you, inspire you, help you feel seen and validated and less alone because from where Deb and I sit, none of us should mother alone.
0:40
SPEAKER_02: Please pull up a chair, grab a cup of tea, coffee, a glass of wine, put in your earbuds, go for a walk.
0:45
SPEAKER_02: And if you are inspired by these conversations, both conversations that Deb and I have, just the two of us, and also really incredible interviews that we have with other experts and specialists in the field of mental health and maternal well-being and women's health.
1:01
SPEAKER_02: If you find these worthwhile, please share with a friend because the reality is we really want to make sure that those moms out there who need a community and who could be uplifted or supported in any way that they find us.
1:16
SPEAKER_02: So thanks for being here.
1:17
SPEAKER_02: We cannot wait to mother with you.
1:38
SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's such a sensitive topic that I think every parent can relate to those moments when our kids hurt our feelings, when they're mean, when they reject us, when they take their stuff out on us.
1:51
SPEAKER_00: And even though we are all trying and deeply know about the wisdom of not taking it personally, what happens when we do take it personally?
2:01
SPEAKER_00: So in this episode, we are gonna unpack that and leave you with a couple ideas to think about, and we hope you enjoyed the show.
2:08
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for listening.
2:10
SPEAKER_02: All right, listeners, it's Kate, and my fall Healthy Mom Bootcamp is out.
2:16
SPEAKER_02: It is ready for you to come sign up.
2:19
SPEAKER_02: We're gonna be starting on September 11th.
2:22
SPEAKER_02: This is eight weeks of really supportive content that is gonna help you really have access to, understand, and begin to integrate exactly what you need to increase your health and well-being, your maternal health and well-being.
2:43
SPEAKER_02: This, of course, is in service of your kids.
2:44
SPEAKER_02: So not only are you gonna feel better when you are finished with this eight-week program and have more connections of moms just like you from all around the country who are committing to their mental health and well-being and taking control of it.
2:57
SPEAKER_02: Not only are you gonna feel better, but you're gonna begin to see how your kids thrive and do better when you feel better.
3:05
SPEAKER_02: So it's time.
3:07
SPEAKER_02: I have a link in the show notes and I have a 20% discount for you fabulous listeners.
3:12
SPEAKER_02: So use code MotherhoodUncut at checkout for 20% off, and I cannot wait to have you join this community.
3:19
SPEAKER_02: I'll see you there.
3:22
SPEAKER_00: Hey everyone, this is Deb.
3:24
SPEAKER_00: Oh, as we all know, the mother-daughter connection is like no other.
3:29
SPEAKER_00: It is intense and special and instrumental in both the lives of the mothers and the daughters.
3:35
SPEAKER_00: However, we know it can also be complex and challenging and even toxic at times.
3:39
SPEAKER_00: And when suddenly understanding your daughter can feel like the biggest challenge ever, we can feel scared and alone and disoriented.
3:47
SPEAKER_00: But I'm here to help.
3:49
SPEAKER_00: I have just launched my fall workshops and I have a few different options which I'm really excited about.
3:54
SPEAKER_00: You can check them out on my website at motherdaughterjourney.co.
3:58
SPEAKER_00: What I want to tell you is that I'm offering a few day-long immersive retreats, and I'm also offering a virtual deep dive on specific topics.
4:07
SPEAKER_00: The day-long options are hosted on Fridays, and if you're from out of town, you can make it a weekend in beautiful Boulder, where you can explore our majestic mountains and trails, eat amazing food, and just enjoy the boulder lifestyle.
4:20
SPEAKER_00: Please do not hesitate to contact me with any questions.
4:23
SPEAKER_00: If you go to my website again, motherdaughterjourney.co, you can schedule a free information session.
4:30
SPEAKER_00: And I really look forward to hearing from you.
4:32
SPEAKER_00: Have a beautiful day.
4:33
SPEAKER_01: Hi, Deb.
4:34
SPEAKER_01: Hi Kate.
4:35
SPEAKER_01: Happy Podcast Day.
4:36
SPEAKER_01: Happy Podcast Day.
4:38
SPEAKER_01: What are we talking about today?
4:40
SPEAKER_02: Well, first, I think that you and I just need to find some humor in life today.
4:50
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
4:50
SPEAKER_02: This is gonna be like a my god, I start to cry a little bit.
4:54
SPEAKER_02: Did you see that?
4:54
SPEAKER_02: I do.
4:55
SPEAKER_02: I don't know why.
4:56
SPEAKER_02: Probably because I love finding humor with you.
4:59
SPEAKER_02: Oh, I love that.
5:00
SPEAKER_02: But I think sometimes topics around mothering and mental health and well-being can feel really heavy.
5:07
SPEAKER_02: And one of the things I love about our conversations and how we work together is that like we know how to balance it out with the just ridiculous don't take it all too seriously, humor part.
5:21
SPEAKER_02: It's so important, isn't it?
5:23
SPEAKER_00: It's like the only way, actually, because most of the challenges in motherhood are not actually solvable.
5:31
SPEAKER_03: No.
5:32
SPEAKER_00: Right?
5:32
SPEAKER_00: In fact, this is true with partnering too.
5:34
SPEAKER_00: Most problems are not solvable.
5:36
SPEAKER_00: It's just how are you gonna work with it?
5:39
SPEAKER_00: How are you gonna manage it?
5:40
SPEAKER_00: How are you gonna repair from it?
5:43
SPEAKER_00: That's like the dance.
5:44
SPEAKER_00: And with that, you have to have a good sense of humor.
5:47
SPEAKER_02: Well, not only are they not solvable, but they're often not actual problems that need to be solved.
5:55
SPEAKER_02: They're just like realities.
5:57
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
5:57
SPEAKER_02: Or situations.
5:58
SPEAKER_02: Like this one that we're gonna talk about today.
6:00
SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes.
6:01
SPEAKER_02: Which is that it's like so hard to not take things our kids do personally, things that they say, ways they think, ways they feel, the judgments they have of us, or even the shit they do in their life that has nothing to do with us.
6:18
SPEAKER_02: Totally.
6:19
SPEAKER_02: It's so hard to not take it personally.
6:22
SPEAKER_02: And yet, if we take it personally, fucked.
6:26
SPEAKER_02: We lose them.
6:27
SPEAKER_02: Well, we lose them, but we also lose our sense of sanity because if we take it all personally, that means it's always about us, which means that we don't allow them to be their own separate beings, and then we're all entangled and codependent, and oh my god, it just makes me tired thinking about that.
6:45
SPEAKER_00: Well, and it feels really personal sometimes.
6:50
SPEAKER_00: It does really hurts sometimes.
6:52
SPEAKER_00: It does.
6:53
SPEAKER_00: So it is like in all my mothering workshops, it is the theme.
6:58
SPEAKER_00: Like, don't take it personally, it's not personal, how do I not take it personal?
7:02
SPEAKER_00: What do I do when it feels personal?
7:04
SPEAKER_02: Can you define, can you just like let's talk about this for a moment?
7:09
SPEAKER_02: What do we mean when we say take it personally?
7:11
SPEAKER_02: What are we even talking about?
7:13
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think it actually starts with their behavior.
7:17
SPEAKER_00: So there's a couple of ways to look at this.
7:19
SPEAKER_00: I think that it is age appropriate for adolescents to be mean.
7:26
SPEAKER_00: Okay, like not all the time, but to strike out, to react, to have big emotions.
7:33
SPEAKER_00: We know that they're in the strongest versions of emotional beings from age 11 to 16.
7:39
SPEAKER_00: That's sort of when it's like starts and then spikes and then starts to level out a little bit.
7:44
SPEAKER_00: That's the most emotional time.
7:46
SPEAKER_00: And with big emotions come big reactions.
7:49
SPEAKER_00: We also know that their brains are developing, and so they're not always gonna think before they speak.
7:54
SPEAKER_00: They're not always gonna think about others, all appropriate.
7:59
SPEAKER_00: We also know that when they're feeling icky inside, they're gonna no one really likes to feel pain alone.
8:06
SPEAKER_00: So it's really, you know, human to project your pain onto someone else so that they feel icky with you.
8:14
SPEAKER_00: It's very unconscious.
8:15
SPEAKER_00: But it's that that story that I think most parents can relate to is when you're you walk in the house, you're feeling good and confident, you just had a good day, and you walk into your kid's room and suddenly you feel insecure, awkward, and just irritable, and you're like, wait, what just happened?
8:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and you're like, is this mine or is this yours?
8:34
SPEAKER_00: Because I was five minutes ago I was fine.
8:37
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
8:38
SPEAKER_00: So that's one piece is the meanness.
8:40
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna come back to that in a minute.
8:41
SPEAKER_00: But the other piece that you said just a moment ago is their behavior that sometimes has nothing to do with us, and I think that is actually the one that's not as obvious, but can sting even more.
8:53
SPEAKER_00: And that's when it's something like they're doing a behavior or they have a value that really doesn't align with your value, and it feels really personal.
9:05
SPEAKER_00: It's like, wow, you're really different from me.
9:09
SPEAKER_02: Right.
9:09
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think there's times where we can be like, oh, what did I do wrong?
9:14
SPEAKER_02: So we're taking their behavior personally, like somehow it has something to do with what we did or didn't do in our parenting.
9:22
SPEAKER_02: But I also am thinking about like early brand new motherhood, you know, when like you've been with your baby all day and your baby's crying, and then the baby won't stop crying, and then your partner or someone friend walks in the house and you hand the baby to them and they calm down.
9:44
SPEAKER_02: Yes, yeah, and you take it personally, you know what I mean?
9:48
SPEAKER_02: Like you take whether or not your baby is crying or not, personal as opposed to a babies cry.
9:57
SPEAKER_02: Yes, and b babies are going to, regardless of who the parent holding them is, settle when someone's settled and agitate when someone's agitated.
10:08
SPEAKER_02: So it's not personal to you specifically personally, you know what I mean?
10:13
SPEAKER_02: Like it's not me, Kate, the mom, it's me, the body, that's tense.
10:17
SPEAKER_02: Yes, right?
10:18
SPEAKER_02: Yes, and I think it starts so early when we take our kids' behavior or temperaments or feelings personally, like somehow it's against us.
10:29
SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
10:31
SPEAKER_00: Such a good example.
10:32
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna give you a funny example great that is more around adolescence that just happened to me the other day, and it just makes me laugh because it's so ridiculous.
10:43
SPEAKER_00: But in the moment it like it just hit a nerve.
10:46
SPEAKER_00: So I was at Target shopping, and one of my kiddos is like, I want real deodorant, I don't want like the natural crap anymore, I think were the words, and none of it works, and this was on the heels of just a couple other little irritating moments, so this wasn't kind of out of the blue.
11:08
SPEAKER_00: And I had such a reaction, Kate.
11:12
SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
11:13
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think I said like, fine, I don't care if you get cancer.
11:18
SPEAKER_00: Like I need something terrible.
11:20
SPEAKER_00: It was really bad.
11:22
SPEAKER_00: And then I was like, okay, I'm sorry, that was lame.
11:25
SPEAKER_00: And I actually was like, listen, I am gonna go home and leave you guys at Target, and then I'm gonna come back and get you once I've chilled out a little bit.
11:34
SPEAKER_00: Because I don't know what happened to me in that moment, but it was something around the product choices that felt like like my opinion didn't matter anymore.
11:45
SPEAKER_00: I was not being influential anymore.
11:48
SPEAKER_00: And so I literally did what I know to do, and I went home and I laid on my floor and I took five deep breaths, and of course, the second I was done breathing, they called and they're like, We're done.
11:57
SPEAKER_00: But I actually had the chance to ask myself a question, and that is like, what's really happening here?
12:03
SPEAKER_00: What's real?
12:04
SPEAKER_00: And when I answered it, I was like, they don't want to smell bad.
12:09
SPEAKER_00: Like, that has nothing to do with me, that has nothing to do with my values around products.
12:17
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's all so ridiculous.
12:18
SPEAKER_00: It it makes me cringe a little even telling the story.
12:21
SPEAKER_00: But it was like I had this chance to have perspective and ask what's actually happening, and then I calmed my system down, came back, I actually apologized, and I was like, hey, let's make a compromise.
12:34
SPEAKER_00: Like, let's have options in the house.
12:37
SPEAKER_00: And you know, when you're going out, maybe you use one deodorant, and maybe on the daily you use one that's you know doesn't have all that stuff in it.
12:46
SPEAKER_00: And and one of my kids was like, Yeah, that's a great compromise.
12:49
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Great, but it was I don't know, does that make sense?
12:54
SPEAKER_00: Can you repeat it?
12:54
SPEAKER_02: It makes so much sense and I think what the part that I'm really picking it up on is that you're you were in that moment experiencing their choice to want the deodorant that wasn't natural as being a choice that was in opposition of you.
13:18
SPEAKER_02: Yes, versus just a choice.
13:22
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
13:23
SPEAKER_02: I'm I mean, my example of this, we've talked about like 72 times on this podcast already, so I'm a little embarrassed to bring it up, but you know, I have these two children, and one of them really prefers distance over physical connection.
13:40
SPEAKER_02: Like that, right?
13:42
SPEAKER_02: And throughout my entire mothering journey with this kid, I have needed to give her permission to be herself without taking her desire to not get too close to me personally.
13:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
13:55
SPEAKER_02: Because it's easy for me to be like, why doesn't she like me?
13:59
SPEAKER_02: Do I smell?
14:00
SPEAKER_02: Am I wearing too much imagination?
14:02
SPEAKER_02: Because it doesn't always work.
14:04
SPEAKER_02: You know, am I being annoying?
14:07
SPEAKER_02: Is she annoyed with me?
14:08
SPEAKER_02: Like it's all it may I can make it all about me instead of allowing it to be just about her.
14:14
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
14:14
SPEAKER_02: And when I take that personally and make it about me, not only do I give her permission to just be who she is, but I project all this shit onto her, which is more likely to make her feel guilty or responsible for me or to think it's not okay for her to be her, right?
14:32
SPEAKER_02: It gets so complicated where really what I've learned to do is just to be like, it's just who she is.
14:38
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
14:38
SPEAKER_02: It has nothing to do with me.
14:42
SPEAKER_00: But it's hard to do.
14:43
SPEAKER_00: It's hard.
14:43
SPEAKER_00: I mean, because our feelings are hurt.
14:45
SPEAKER_00: Well, exactly.
14:46
SPEAKER_00: And when your feelings get hurt, I mean, I know when my feelings get hurt, I sort of go to a much more tender place in myself that often feels younger, that lacks perspective, and what you just said is all perspective.
15:04
SPEAKER_00: It's it we're talking about perspective.
15:05
SPEAKER_00: Yes, and and that young, and then when I'm parenting from a younger place, it nothing is gonna work.
15:13
SPEAKER_00: Well, young kids don't have perspective, so they're just it's all about them.
15:18
SPEAKER_00: And then exactly, and then their safety goes away, they don't feel safe.
15:22
SPEAKER_00: And this is why we lose them.
15:25
SPEAKER_00: When the minute we get hooked, we've like created an environment where they can't be themselves with their own opinions, their own values, and their own way of being in the world that's really different from us.
15:39
SPEAKER_02: Let's talk for a minute about what it could look like the both and of having our feelings hurt and not taking it personally.
15:51
SPEAKER_02: My I'm guessing that that's where we get really mixed up in this.
15:58
SPEAKER_02: You know, let me use this example with Bridger for a moment.
16:01
SPEAKER_02: My feelings, I can give myself permission to feel the feels of having my feelings hurt when she says, no, I don't want to come sit next to you on the sofa.
16:13
SPEAKER_02: And I can find ways to not take that personally at the same time.
16:17
SPEAKER_02: But I think when our feelings begin to feel hurt, because we're not, we don't feel seen or heard or respected or admired or influential or whatever that is, we can interconnect that with taking it personally because our personal experience is being impacted, even if it's not personal.
16:39
SPEAKER_02: So, what do you do with hurt feelings?
16:42
SPEAKER_02: Well, what I've learned to do is not what I've always done, but what I do now is really honor that experience.
16:50
SPEAKER_02: And I can pretty quickly with practice in the moment give myself permission to have my feelings hurt.
16:58
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I've learned how to go from my brain, my sort of analysis of what's happening into my body and understand that I can nothing bad's gonna happen if my feelings are hurt, or if my feelings feel hurt, I can manage that.
17:11
SPEAKER_02: I can take take care of that.
17:12
SPEAKER_02: I don't have to fix something so my feelings are no longer hurt, or like spill them out onto someone else so that they feel your feelings.
17:20
SPEAKER_01: Right.
17:21
SPEAKER_00: Good point.
17:22
SPEAKER_00: I think that so you're saying you have learned to honor and feel and stay in your body.
17:30
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna add to that.
17:32
SPEAKER_00: I've learned to um be quiet.
17:36
SPEAKER_00: And like I think there's actually a lot of magic that happens in the silence.
17:44
SPEAKER_00: And I wanna be clear that I'm not saying there's a line of really harsh meanness and appropriate reactivity.
17:55
SPEAKER_00: And so when something feels really mean to me, you know, like they're making fun of me in a in a way.
18:02
SPEAKER_00: Like direct yeah, or or it's just or it's like or name-calling, like really hardcore name-calling that isn't like based on disappointment, you know.
18:14
SPEAKER_00: And I'll come back to that disappointment piece in a sec, because it's important.
18:17
SPEAKER_00: But then I will clearly say, Oh, you just crossed a line.
18:21
SPEAKER_00: Beautiful.
18:22
SPEAKER_00: Just like that, in that tone.
18:24
SPEAKER_00: Or sometimes you've heard me say this before, just ouch.
18:26
SPEAKER_00: That's what I do.
18:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, ouch.
18:28
SPEAKER_00: And then like, and then the silence just sits and they feel what happened, and I feel it, and then there's quiet, and then there's just a little more room for allowing.
18:38
SPEAKER_00: But the thing I've learned about disappointment is that when they're and you know, when when most kids are like, you're the worst, you know, or whatever, if they're not getting their way, or there's a reactivity, or some quieter kids might slam doors and just ice you out for a little bit.
18:53
SPEAKER_00: All of that is that deep disappointment that they don't like your choices and they don't align with what they want.
19:01
SPEAKER_00: And that is so important, I think, to remember that it's not that they don't like you, but they don't like your decisions in those moments, and that we are learning over and over to let that disappointment be part of life.
19:18
SPEAKER_02: Well, and I mean, let's call a spade a spade.
19:21
SPEAKER_02: They may not like you, us in the moment.
19:24
SPEAKER_02: And that we can learn to not even take personally because it's part of teen development to differentiate and to have moments where you don't like your parents.
19:35
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
19:36
SPEAKER_02: And so I think that's a really interesting place to dig in a little bit, which is we can both not take it personally and set boundaries at the same time.
19:48
SPEAKER_02: So if my kid says, I hate you, right?
19:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that I can learn to not take that personally, meaning this is it, ex-age kid, I mean, let's think 12, 13, right?
20:04
SPEAKER_02: That stage where there's so much angst happening.
20:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
20:07
SPEAKER_02: So this way of being in the world and this big burst of emotion and the direction of the motion at a mother, that's all actually pretty stereotypical.
20:17
SPEAKER_02: That's within the range of quote unquote normal.
20:19
SPEAKER_02: So therefore I can say, oh, I don't have to take this personally.
20:22
SPEAKER_02: This is just the stage of development that that kid is in, and say, you can't talk to me that way.
20:29
SPEAKER_02: Right?
20:30
SPEAKER_02: And actually, I think I'm more likely to be able to set a boundary from that neutral, non-emotional place once I've separated myself from taking it personally.
20:40
SPEAKER_02: Beautiful.
20:40
SPEAKER_02: Otherwise, I'm likely to be like, well, I hate you.
20:44
SPEAKER_00: I mean, which I think what you're also saying is that state of neutral is also one of the I think secret weapons is gives you the ability to not hold a grudge.
20:57
SPEAKER_00: Because actually, what I think one of the long-lasting effects on teenage development is when a parent holds a grudge on them.
21:06
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
21:06
SPEAKER_00: And doesn't give them room to make a lot of clumsy mistakes as they're growing up and be able to see them as teens and young people and all the levels and stages they're going through.
21:18
SPEAKER_00: Because that I that feeling of someone's holding a grudge on you, that shit runs deep, and that then it turns into internalized shame.
21:27
SPEAKER_02: I want to actually expose us for a moment, not in a bad way, but I we're talking about relationships in general.
21:34
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
21:34
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think one of the things that you and I have learned to do really well in our friendship is not take things personally.
21:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:43
SPEAKER_02: We've had plenty of times where we'll have plans for something, and one of us will call back and say, you know what?
21:52
SPEAKER_02: I can't do it.
21:54
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna, I I know I said I was gonna come have drinks or dinner or go for a hike, and I can't do it.
22:00
SPEAKER_02: I'm not going to pull back now.
22:02
SPEAKER_02: And there's been a way that we've learned to allow that to be about what's happening for each of us separate, not taking it personally, which allow gives us both permission to be exactly who we are because we know the other person isn't going to take it personally.
22:16
SPEAKER_02: There have been times when we have taken it personally, but then we've checked in.
22:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
22:21
SPEAKER_02: Right?
22:22
SPEAKER_02: Definitely.
22:22
SPEAKER_02: But I think the part of the reason our friendship is so healthy and dynamic and deep and growing is because we know not to take things personally.
22:33
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
22:34
SPEAKER_00: Which yes, which also goes into personal responsibility.
22:38
SPEAKER_00: Like I can feel disappointed that you broke the plans, but I don't have to be mad at you for breaking the plans.
22:44
SPEAKER_00: Actually, as you're saying that, I'm like thinking about times where people have held a grudge on me and how awful that feels.
22:52
SPEAKER_00: So that I think is such an important tip to remind all of us parents around like forgiveness and move on.
23:04
SPEAKER_00: And I will go one step further.
23:06
SPEAKER_00: Let's say there's a blowout and and I took it personally and my kid feels bad and we've repaired and whatever, and then we move on and it's dinner.
23:15
SPEAKER_00: I think it's actually really sweet to like send a follow-up text or maybe leave a love sticky note on their pillow that night.
23:24
SPEAKER_00: That doesn't bring up the fight, that doesn't have to go there.
23:27
SPEAKER_00: It's more just like, I love you.
23:28
SPEAKER_00: It's like a reminder, I love you no matter what.
23:31
SPEAKER_00: I will love you through the storms.
23:33
SPEAKER_00: And that might not totally be everyone's style, but I think it goes a long way with kids getting just those little reminders way after in the same day that a blow-up happens.
23:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think it's so funny.
23:47
SPEAKER_02: We're obviously we're talking about mothering and kids, but I think it was helpful for me for a moment to pull this conversation away from the responsibility of being a mother to the neutral shared responsibility in an adult relationship for a moment, because I'm not raising you.
24:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, and you're not raising me, right?
24:07
SPEAKER_02: But how how freeing it actually is to give you permission to do what's right for you or what you need in the moment, or even to make a really clumsy mistake by saying something hurtful or you know, quote unquote saying the wrong thing, right?
24:29
SPEAKER_02: My willingness to give you permission to do that and not take it personally allows you to actually not have to tangle up your process around that with my anger.
24:44
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
24:45
SPEAKER_02: You're more likely to come back and say, I did not handle that well.
24:50
SPEAKER_02: Or I I said that thing, but I meant something else.
24:53
SPEAKER_02: Which we do often.
24:54
SPEAKER_02: All the time.
24:55
SPEAKER_00: We'll be like, hey, that came out wrong.
24:57
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
24:57
SPEAKER_00: And I try again.
24:58
SPEAKER_02: Or, or exactly, or if, you know, let's say you and I are having a hard com quote unquote hard conversation about something because we're disagreeing about something, right?
25:10
SPEAKER_02: And I say something, I'm edgy in the way I say something, right?
25:18
SPEAKER_02: There's like a sharpness to what I say.
25:22
SPEAKER_02: And by you allowing it, you allowing yourself to feel how crappy that feels, but to not take it personally or give it too much meaning, it doesn't mean I don't like you.
25:32
SPEAKER_02: It doesn't mean our relationship is falling apart.
25:35
SPEAKER_02: It does by you doing that, it gives me the space to say, wow, I was really sharp in the way that I said.
25:45
SPEAKER_02: So now I'm more able to own it.
25:47
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
25:48
SPEAKER_02: Which I say, I think what we want to do with our kids.
25:50
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
25:50
SPEAKER_02: Because we want our kids to be able to say, Wow, I'm sorry I told you I hated you last night.
25:57
SPEAKER_02: That must have hurt your feelings, because it does.
25:59
SPEAKER_02: It can hurt our feelings, even if we're not taking it personally.
26:02
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
26:02
SPEAKER_02: I might be going in circles here, but it's kind of interesting.
26:05
SPEAKER_00: You were saying some really important themes, and that you said the word, it's so freeing.
26:10
SPEAKER_00: And actually, when you said that, I was like imagining like a home where there's freedom to just everyone be themselves and recognize that yes, then we have to re own when we are harmful, but in that space of freedom, there's room to have self-reflection.
26:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and you know what?
26:31
SPEAKER_02: We actually hope that our kids don't take it personally when we're snarky.
26:36
SPEAKER_02: When we're snarky or when we say no, right?
26:39
SPEAKER_02: Or set boundaries.
26:41
SPEAKER_02: It's not a it's not a it's not a weapon against them.
26:45
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
26:46
SPEAKER_02: It's just what we're doing in our parenting.
26:50
SPEAKER_00: So good.
26:51
SPEAKER_00: I want to share something else with you.
26:54
SPEAKER_00: Um, this is a new word or phrase that I just learned, and I it explained it helped me so much, but it's called imaginary audience syndrome.
27:04
SPEAKER_00: And it's a very common, it's teenagers and adolescents feel it.
27:09
SPEAKER_00: This idea, this phenomenon that they're being watched all the time.
27:13
SPEAKER_02: Wait, I'm sorry, it's not just teens that have I'm freaking 50 years old, and sometimes I'm like, I feel like people are watching me.
27:22
SPEAKER_02: The rule keepers are watching me.
27:24
SPEAKER_00: Oh wow, yes.
27:26
SPEAKER_02: Not so much anymore, but for so much of my life.
27:29
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
27:30
SPEAKER_02: Say more, I want to hear more.
27:31
SPEAKER_00: It's a really cool term.
27:32
SPEAKER_00: It's um, so I'm gonna oops, I'm gonna say it again.
27:35
SPEAKER_00: Imaginary audience syndrome, the phenomenon whereby one imagines that those around them are judging and evaluating every move.
27:45
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so if that is happening all the time in an adolescent brain, then they are feeling so exposed, and therefore, this is like why they feel embarrassed by parents so often.
28:03
SPEAKER_00: Because if a parent, if they're feeling so exposed and a parent is doing whatever they're doing, just being themselves, they feel this crazy connection, you know, like they're being what is it, guilty by association, you know?
28:17
SPEAKER_00: And it's just I don't know.
28:20
SPEAKER_00: I don't really know much more to say about it, except that it it gives me compassion of what it's like to be a teen, an adolescent in any way, because they just feel so exposed.
28:31
SPEAKER_00: So then, of course, who are they gonna lash out on?
28:33
SPEAKER_00: The people closest to them, the ones that are embarrassing them.
28:36
SPEAKER_00: And the other piece that comes with embarrassment is like, I want you close, but you're not perfect, and that's weird.
28:44
SPEAKER_00: And if you're not perfect and I can't count on you, then I can't count on anyone, and la, you know, it's like this in a split second that can happen.
28:52
SPEAKER_02: I'm just being so I'm so reminded when you're talking about this about how complex being a kid is.
28:58
SPEAKER_02: Yes, and how our adult brain wants to simplify it, and I think that's where taking it personally comes from because it's sort of simple to see it as something directed personally towards us instead of all these layers that you're describing.
29:15
SPEAKER_02: That is such a good point, and so we have to remind ourselves.
29:20
SPEAKER_02: I mean, that embarrassment one really rings true for me.
29:24
SPEAKER_02: I would actually say that one of the things that's hardest for me to not take personally in mothering my daughters are the moments that they're embarrassed by me.
29:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
29:37
SPEAKER_02: Oh, good.
29:38
SPEAKER_02: Right?
29:38
SPEAKER_00: Those don't feel personal.
29:40
SPEAKER_02: They do feel personal.
29:41
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
29:41
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I have to work hard to not take it personally.
29:44
SPEAKER_02: No, I think that is the biggest thing that feels personal.
29:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
29:47
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
29:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because they can roll their eyes, or I can be doing something that feels just so true to my nature and who I am.
29:55
SPEAKER_02: And they can be like, I mean, of course, now that I'm saying it out loud, I'm like so not personal, it's so stereotypical.
30:00
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you see this in movies and TV shows and books.
30:03
SPEAKER_02: This is not just my daughters and me.
30:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
30:05
SPEAKER_02: But they they like, they're like, ugh, or they roll their eyes, or they're like, you're don't wear that, or like all this stuff.
30:14
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
30:15
SPEAKER_02: And that is one of those places where I think for me to be able to say, to just stay true to me, but let it brush off my shoulders, remind myself that it's not personal, that they're just fan teenagers.
30:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
30:28
SPEAKER_02: Then it allows me to go on staying true to who I am and not changing my behavior because I need to make it better for them.
30:38
SPEAKER_00: Or please them.
30:39
SPEAKER_00: Or like make it make you adjust who you are for their disc for them to feel more comfortable.
30:45
SPEAKER_02: Which is actually not what they want.
30:46
SPEAKER_02: No, it's because that's scary for them if we're like being exactly who they think they want us to be.
30:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, no, no.
30:53
SPEAKER_00: But I think actually, this is where I think all moms can really relate to that first moment where the kid drops the hand.
31:01
SPEAKER_00: Like you're holding hands.
31:03
SPEAKER_02: Oh my god, I just had like a pain hurt my that hurt my heart when you said that.
31:08
SPEAKER_02: I know that feeling, I remember that feeling.
31:11
SPEAKER_00: It's real.
31:12
SPEAKER_00: Hard to not take that personally, and and grieve.
31:14
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it comes with grief, and it's part of this like imaginary audience syndrome.
31:20
SPEAKER_00: It's it's part of wanting to be autonomous, it's part of you know creating space.
31:28
SPEAKER_00: It's all and I mean it, you know, those start to happen around age eight, nine.
31:32
SPEAKER_00: That's like the first time we start to really see that.
31:34
SPEAKER_00: And of course, we know that there's a lot of coming back and separating, coming back, but that feeling it's so awful.
31:43
SPEAKER_00: So actually, I'm gonna jump back to we were talking about ways we like work with it.
31:49
SPEAKER_00: Listeners, I know you've heard me say this a million times, but I can't stress it enough.
31:53
SPEAKER_00: Because it's so awful, we need to have an adult person that we can go commiserate with.
31:59
SPEAKER_00: 100% even for a moment, because the last thing we want our community to be doing is suck it up.
32:06
SPEAKER_00: Like logic your way out of this, you know, and the feelings are real, and so tend to those feelings, tend to your nervous system, open your mind for perspective, and come back.
32:18
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
32:20
SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, I think that's really true.
32:23
SPEAKER_02: It's really true.
32:24
SPEAKER_02: I mean, that is one of I would say if we had like a um, what's it called when you put a line down?
32:32
SPEAKER_02: You're keeping track of something and you put a the five, like yeah, what are those called?
32:37
SPEAKER_02: Okay, if we had a tracking system where we are marking every time if we had topics of what we come to each other with in our parenting, this one talking about the shit we're feeling and how we're taking it personally would have the most ticks.
32:56
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
32:57
SPEAKER_02: We yes, we talk about that a lot.
32:59
SPEAKER_00: Yes, like in this almost every day.
33:02
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
33:03
SPEAKER_00: I think it is so common.
33:06
SPEAKER_00: And you know, so often people are like they think they're oversensitive or they think their kid is meaner than the next kid, and like I don't know, if there's one point I want to get cross across today, is this like you're just saying, this is so normal and so necessary, and it's all part of it.
33:25
SPEAKER_02: And I think there needs to be, I mean, I'm just gonna throw out a kind of strategy that people could use that I think you and I probably do now just habitually without even realizing it unconsciously.
33:38
SPEAKER_02: Well, first of all, it's just to to know in our in our bodies when we're having that moment, we really need to learn, I think, as humans, not just mothers, but as humans, to be able to go from our brain thinking brain into our body-feeling body because that's where all the wisdom is, right?
33:51
SPEAKER_02: We talk about this all the time.
33:53
SPEAKER_02: But when we feel that sort of tightness or like the tummy clench, which is what we feel when we're taking something personally, whether it's our kids or someone else, to be able to feel that, to pause, feel our feet on the floor, and then to ask a question, which might be, what if this wasn't personal?
34:11
SPEAKER_02: Because I think it's hard to go from taking it personally to this is all about me to this isn't about me.
34:16
SPEAKER_02: Like that's almost too hard of a shift for most people.
34:19
SPEAKER_02: But just to ask that question, what if this wasn't personal?
34:22
SPEAKER_00: What if this wasn't about me?
34:24
SPEAKER_00: Yes, or the question that I asked with the deodorant, like what's really happening here?
34:28
SPEAKER_00: Right.
34:29
SPEAKER_00: What's actually the face value?
34:32
SPEAKER_00: Right.
34:32
SPEAKER_02: Right.
34:33
SPEAKER_02: And that opens up a new perspective, a new way to relate to what is our kid is doing or saying that we're finding hurts our feelings or doesn't feel good in our bodies, and then to just that question, what's really happening here?
34:48
SPEAKER_02: What if this wasn't personal?
34:49
SPEAKER_02: What if this wasn't about me?
34:51
SPEAKER_02: Just that distance allows us to see it for what it is.
34:54
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
34:55
SPEAKER_02: And then stay in connection, which is what you and I are always talking about.
34:58
SPEAKER_02: How do we stay in connection with our kids even when things feel really shitty?
35:03
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
35:04
SPEAKER_00: And what you're just saying, even by asking the question, you're opening curiosity, you're opening up the free front free pre-frontal cortex.
35:13
SPEAKER_00: So there's something else that is important to name, and that is that yes, we're giving a lot of permission for the feelings to feel shitty and how normal it is.
35:22
SPEAKER_00: And if we react from that personal place, we're setting up a really bad situation for our kids to feel like they need to take care of our feelings, and that is actually like long-term struggle.
35:34
SPEAKER_02: Well, and I think that goes to goes to the other action piece, which is that we have to learn how to take care of our own feelings.
35:42
SPEAKER_02: And I think many people don't know how to do that.
35:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and that's you know, through a therapist or a coach or a trusted friend.
35:51
SPEAKER_02: But if we don't know how to do that, yeah, we're gonna keep cycling back into taking everything personally because if we are taking it personally and we make it about us and them, we can put it back on that other person to fix it for us.
36:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
36:04
SPEAKER_02: And it's it's just diffusing and displacing the actual challenge.
36:08
SPEAKER_02: So we have to learn how to take care of our own feelings.
36:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, beautiful.
36:13
SPEAKER_00: I also want to do a plug for when your kid is lashing out at you, that's actually a sign of safety.
36:20
SPEAKER_00: It is so important to remember.
36:21
SPEAKER_00: I'm much more concerned with the kid that is silent and not and holding back the frustrated feelings.
36:28
SPEAKER_02: I would say, yes.
36:29
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I might put a little, I know you would agree with me, but I might put a little addition onto that, is it's a sign of safety as long as there are healthy boundaries in a family.
36:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
36:38
SPEAKER_02: So if a kid is lashing out and there's an expectation that a parent is gonna hold lines around abuse, verbal, physical abuse, then that's a sign of safety.
36:51
SPEAKER_02: If that's not happening and there's sort of a dynamic of power and control where the kid has it over a parent, I don't know that I would agree with that, but that's a whole different topic.
37:01
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
37:02
SPEAKER_02: But I know what you're saying.
37:03
SPEAKER_02: When our kids can be messy and not and not be pleasant all the time, they're letting go.
37:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
37:09
SPEAKER_00: That's what we want.
37:10
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
37:11
SPEAKER_00: One last thing I want to add is that when a kiddo comes home and lashes out, excuse me, and it has not and nothing's happened, nothing triggered it.
37:23
SPEAKER_00: And those are the sweetest moments when you can when we as parents can hold that boundary, not react, get curious, and be quiet, and maybe even distract for a little bit, like go do the dishes or something, and then come back and then be like, what's going on?
37:43
SPEAKER_00: Sorry, I'm choking.
37:45
SPEAKER_02: It's an it's an uncle, it's uncut.
37:49
SPEAKER_02: We're just gonna sit here while you drink your water.
37:56
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
37:56
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I could hear that gulp and that was right.
38:01
SPEAKER_00: But I think it's so important, it goes back to how we started that usually there's something else going on.
38:08
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
38:09
SPEAKER_00: And then they take it out on us, and then when we hand can actually recognize this isn't mine, then we there's space to learn what's going on for them.
38:19
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
38:20
SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, I think that's it, babe.
38:23
SPEAKER_02: I think that's it.
38:24
SPEAKER_02: We just covered it.
38:25
SPEAKER_02: Probably not.
38:26
SPEAKER_02: Actually, as always, I really, really, really want to sort of encourage, it might even sound a little bit like I'm pleading, but only because it's so helpful for us and for other moms in the community to let us know how these land.
38:41
SPEAKER_02: Ask us your questions.
38:42
SPEAKER_02: Come find us on our Instagram feed at motherhood uncut podcast.
38:46
SPEAKER_02: There's actually a space on our main podcast, um, the main hub for our podcast, which is always in the show notes, um, for you to leave us a voice memo.
38:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
38:56
SPEAKER_02: You can email us, you can, it's all there.
39:00
SPEAKER_02: So please let us know how this stuff lands for you.
39:03
SPEAKER_00: I would I would love that too.
39:05
SPEAKER_00: And to share some of your tools, you know.
39:08
SPEAKER_00: What do you do when you feel it hurts harder than it should?
39:12
SPEAKER_00: And how do you come back from that?
39:14
SPEAKER_00: And what are your ways of repairing?
39:15
SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, we get bored of our own ideas.
39:18
SPEAKER_00: We want to hear from you.
39:19
SPEAKER_00: So we do.
39:20
SPEAKER_00: So thanks for listening.
39:22
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Kate.
39:23
SPEAKER_00: Love you, Dad.
39:24
SPEAKER_00: I love you too.
39:25
SPEAKER_02: Bye.
39:27
SPEAKER_02: Hey listeners, we sure hope you enjoyed that episode.
39:31
SPEAKER_02: And if you did, we would really love for you to share this with a friend.
39:37
SPEAKER_02: So here's the deal: we're all in this together.
39:40
SPEAKER_02: And as a community of moms, we need to make sure that no one is left alone.
39:46
SPEAKER_02: So you can help us with that.
39:48
SPEAKER_02: Please share this episode or other episodes that you found useful for you.
39:53
SPEAKER_02: Please consider writing a review and rating this podcast because when you do, it actually makes it more accessible to other moms who might be looking for podcasts that they would also find useful.
40:05
SPEAKER_02: So we are so grateful you're here.
40:08
SPEAKER_02: And if you were interested in just taking a minute or two to share and rate and review, Dev and I would be so grateful.
40:17
SPEAKER_02: Thank you for mothering with us.