Latest / Martyr's Row / Ep. 21 - Is Zeus Satan?

Transcript

Ep. 21 - Is Zeus Satan? · Martyr's Row

• 0:00
  Saint Antipas. According to Eastern Orthodox
• 0:03
  traditions, according to the commentary on the
• 0:06
  apocalypse of Andreas of Caesarea, it is believed
• 0:10
  that Saint Antipas was the Antipas referred to
• 0:13
  in Revelation 2 .13. As the verse says, I know
• 0:17
  thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where
• 0:20
  Satan's seat is. And thou holdest fast my name,
• 0:24
  and hast not denied my faith, even in those days
• 0:27
  where an Antipas was my faithful martyr, who
• 0:30
  was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth." According
• 0:35
  to Christian tradition, John the Apostle ordained
• 0:38
  Antipas as bishop of Pergamon during the reign
• 0:42
  of Roman Emperor Nero. The traditional account
• 0:45
  go on to say St. Antipas was martyred during
• 0:49
  the reign of Nero, or demission, by burning in
• 0:53
  a brazen bowl -shaped altar for casting out demons
• 0:56
  worshipped by the local population. Hey Paul.
• 1:16
  Hey Steven. Welcome to Martyrs Row. I feel like
• 1:19
  that snap is like... It's iconic. It's kind of
• 1:23
  like before you look at a customer. In the psyche
• 1:26
  I was about to go a completely different You
• 1:29
  know, it's just like are you about to answer
• 1:30
  the phone the phones you like? Hello Well, I
• 1:35
  was gonna say for us it's kind of like oh Yeah,
• 1:41
  whoops you guys recording Well, it's funny because
• 1:45
  like as soon as you said that I was thinking
• 1:47
  of hypnotism hypnotism. There you go. Yeah I'm
• 1:52
  notoriously bad at pronouncing specific things
• 1:54
  consistently wrong. Yeah, for all of you guys
• 1:58
  that watched the episode on, was it Nimrod? The
• 2:02
  Freemasons? The Freemasons? I could not, I kept
• 2:05
  saying Masonic. And I was like trying not to
• 2:07
  say Messianic. Well I think you said Messianic
• 2:09
  a few times. I did because Masonic is so close.
• 2:13
  But Masonic is not correct. It's Masonic. And
• 2:17
  you know what's funny? I think at the time I
• 2:19
  knew, I was like, I know he's trying to say...
• 2:21
  I wish you would have just stopped me. And I
• 2:23
  don't know why I wasn't just like, let me tell
• 2:25
  you how to say it. I think I forgot, again, we
• 2:28
  were recording. And I was just like, well, I
• 2:30
  know what you mean. It's astounding how many
• 2:32
  times I said it in that episode. We should have
• 2:35
  put a counter at the bottom. Which if you haven't
• 2:38
  seen it, that one's was Nimrod of Freemason.
• 2:42
  Yeah. So if you want to watch me say Maceonic
• 2:44
  over and over again, just like wrestle with myself.
• 2:47
  Is that episode seven? No idea. It's one of the
• 2:51
  earlier ones. It is. It's a top 10. Yeah. Sorry.
• 2:56
  Bottom 10? Early 10? Bottom 10. One of the 10.
• 2:59
  First 10? Well, if it's in the feed, it's on
• 3:01
  the bottom. Yeah. So it's the bottom 10. Unless
• 3:04
  you have it filtered a different way. Which who?
• 3:07
  Why would you do that? Do you do that? No. Someone
• 3:10
  does. I want the newest first. Well, you have
• 3:12
  the option. Yeah. So why would you have the option
• 3:14
  if somebody doesn't do it? It's true. You know?
• 3:18
  Someone's doing it. Or it's just like a search
• 3:19
  thing. Straight to jail. Straight to jail. Straight
• 3:22
  to jail. If you search last first and first last,
• 3:27
  straight to jail. Straight to jail. Is that what
• 3:29
  Christ would do? Yes. Actually he would. And
• 3:33
  they killed him. Oh no. Straight to jail. Jesus
• 3:40
  of Nazareth, straight to jail. Straight to jail.
• 3:46
  Apostle Paul, straight to jail. Saint Antipas,
• 3:51
  straight to jail. Actually okay. Yeah, fair enough.
• 3:59
  Yeah, so I was thinking about this before, but
• 4:02
  do you have a, we've talked about music a lot.
• 4:05
  Music is a pretty important part, or has been
• 4:07
  a large part. May not be important. but it's
• 4:10
  been a large part of both of our lives. It's
• 4:12
  true. It's been invasive. It's a big part of
• 4:14
  this podcast. Honestly, I've been trying to get
• 4:16
  away from it, it just keeps chasing me. There
• 4:19
  wasn't actually a few years where I was like,
• 4:21
  I don't do music anymore. For years? I tried
• 4:24
  for two years to be like, I don't do that. How
• 4:26
  is that possible? It didn't work. Like playing?
• 4:29
  I was like, I don't play anymore. I still liked
• 4:31
  it, but I was like, I just don't wanna. I'm like
• 4:33
  taking a break. I don't want to be known for
• 4:35
  this. That would be tough. And I realized this
• 4:37
  impossible. So you were too well -known. You
• 4:39
  said no more. No more. Too much fame. Well, I
• 4:44
  think I was trying to like diversify. Yeah. And
• 4:47
  I was just like, everyone knows me as like Paul
• 4:49
  the guy who plays music. And I was like, I don't
• 4:51
  want to be known. for that. This sounds like
• 4:53
  a church specific problem. It was. People are
• 4:57
  not utilizing their volunteers correctly. Yeah,
• 4:59
  that's what it was. Oh boy. This is too early
• 5:03
  in the episode to get into this. But yeah, it
• 5:06
  didn't work. It really is like, I just can't
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  stop. Hey, if you serve people in any capacity
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  or you lead people who serve, they're humans
• 5:15
  with full time jobs. Yes. Think about how they're
• 5:20
  doing, not what they can do for you. Yeah. Yeah.
• 5:23
  And if you're a volunteer, take care of yourself.
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  God bless you. God bless you. There is refreshing
• 5:28
  in the service. Yeah, that crown is going to
• 5:30
  be heavy, so work out your neck. Work out your
• 5:33
  my neck. My neck. Oh, my neck. That's the thing
• 5:37
  that I have a problem with. This crown is too
• 5:39
  heavy. My neck. I think for you, it's like you
• 5:43
  have trouble finding the word and pronouncing
• 5:45
  it. For me, I try to pronounce two different
• 5:48
  words at the same time. Yeah, you tend to add
• 5:50
  letters at the front of words. Yeah. Yeah. Because
• 5:52
  I'm trying to say a different word and I change
• 5:54
  my mind as I start that word. But a lot of times
• 5:57
  it works. Mm, my neck. Mm, my neck. I like that.
• 6:00
  It's a me. I'm a neck. So I was thinking about
• 6:06
  this, music as a kid. Segue, quick segue. But
• 6:12
  I was thinking about, I have a very fond and
• 6:15
  vivid memory of, did you ever have one of those,
• 6:18
  all right, so I didn't play video games very
• 6:20
  much as a kid, but I did play a couple very specific
• 6:23
  video games. And to be honest with you, I don't
• 6:26
  really know why. I think it was just like, I'm
• 6:28
  super into this right now. And a month later,
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  I just never played it again. It was fine. And
• 6:34
  like you could have just thrown my Xbox in the
• 6:35
  garbage and it wouldn't have mattered. Yeah.
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  But like there was this very specific thing.
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  Well, let me ask you. Did you were you super
• 6:45
  into video games when I was a kid? Yes. Up until
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  what? At what point did you stop being a kid?
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  Well, so, yeah, when I was younger, we didn't
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  have him for a long time. I actually remember
• 6:55
  the day. that an Xbox first appeared at our house
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  with Halo on it. Was that the first one you got?
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  No, before that we had an NES, but it barely
• 7:05
  worked. So it was so much work to get it to work.
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  And then we'd have computer games we got from
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  the library. We had a family computer, so you
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  could only play for so long before the rest of
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  your family, because I have seven siblings. So
• 7:21
  we're all fighting to be on the computer. Did
• 7:23
  you have AOL? Oh yeah. Okay because that's the
• 7:26
  thing is like you dial up and then it's a little
• 7:28
  bit like um I was gonna use a terrible I'm just
• 7:34
  gonna not say that part um but it was like you
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  dial up and you when you're done doing with what
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  you're doing do not sign out because it's somebody
• 7:44
  else's turn and they're going to have to reboot
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  it and sit there and watch the little guy go
• 7:50
  across all three screens. And you're going to
• 7:50
  have to hear that sound. To be honest with you,
• 7:57
  all of our computers - And that's when your parents
• 7:58
  go like, who's on the computer? Because they
• 8:00
  were trying to use the phone right then. I'm
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  glad we're like at least close enough in age.
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  Yeah. I also remember like waking up at like
• 8:10
  two, three in the morning. Okay. Just because
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  I knew no one was awake and then I'd go on the
• 8:14
  computer. Yeah, that makes sense. That's why
• 8:17
  we do the podcast right now. That's right. At
• 8:19
  four a .m. Or you try to download something that's
• 8:23
  like two megabytes and it's like, cool, that'll
• 8:25
  take a week. Oh yeah, you leave something downloading
• 8:29
  overnight, and then you wake up in the morning
• 8:31
  and it disconnected like five minutes in. You're
• 8:33
  like, no! No! Lime wire, you did it to me again!
• 8:39
  Did you realize the entire computer is infected?
• 8:43
  It's like China now runs your internet, but that
• 8:48
  was happening back then too, it's crazy. Something's
• 8:50
  never changed. But when I was about 20, that's
• 8:56
  when I decided Like, I'm tired of playing video
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  games. That's when you stopped being a kid. That's
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  when I stopped being a kid. So that's why I asked
• 9:00
  that. Because in my mind, I'm thinking you're
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  like, oh, when I was like 12, I stopped. Yeah,
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  no, there was like periods where I stopped in
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  my teens. Yeah. Because I was like, I just wasn't
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  that into it. Then I got really into it again.
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  How old were you when you got the Xbox? I was,
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  when did it come out? I don't know. Because that
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  was early 2000s, wasn't it? I would say 2005,
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  maybe 2003. Because I remember, I think it was
• 9:21
  the first year it came out. Because it came out
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  with Halo. It has to be before the iPhone. It
• 9:25
  was. Yeah. Well, yeah, okay. Yeah, because that
• 9:28
  one's 2008? No, no, it was 2005. Oh, it's 2005.
• 9:34
  Yeah, either that or, yeah, someone's yelling
• 9:37
  at us. They are. Well, I remember it was... 2005,
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  2006. I want to say it was around the time, it
• 9:44
  might have been like... That means the iPhone's
• 9:46
  been out for 20 years. That's crazy. That is
• 9:48
  crazy. The Xbox came out, it must have been like...
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  to 2003. That would make sense. Because I remember
• 9:55
  when the first Spider -Man came out. Yeah. And
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  we watched it on the Xbox, but there was something
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  weird with the color where it would like come
• 10:04
  in and out. Oh. And they had to get like some
• 10:06
  special adapter to watch movies on it. That's
• 10:09
  cool. Yeah. Oh, the Spider -Man movie. I thought
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  you were talking about a game. No, no, no, the
• 10:14
  movie. Like the color would keep coming in and
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  out. Okay, okay. So you would use it to watch
• 10:19
  movies also? Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah, yeah.
• 10:21
  No, so I had like, so at one point I had this
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  like gaming chair, which is weird because I didn't
• 10:28
  really like play games that much. I just, it
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  was like, why not? Like, cause my brother's eight
• 10:35
  years older than me. My sister's four years older
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  than me. So by the time my sister was 18, I was
• 10:41
  still 14. So my brother had been out of the house
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  for four years and my sister's barely home or
• 10:49
  doing a bunch of whatever. Whatever she's doing.
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  Like I need a gaming chair. Yeah, so sometimes
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  I would just sit in my room at night and turn
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  all the lights off in my room and then just play
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  a game in my little gaming chair. But the thing
• 11:04
  that I would do is I specifically would play,
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  I think it was Need for Speed. It was like whatever
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  racing game. And it had like pretty minimal levels
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  on it. But when I would do that, it was actually
• 11:17
  more about the environment that I was in than
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  what I was actually doing. And here's why I say
• 11:23
  that. Because I specifically remember, like again,
• 11:28
  I'm pretty sure, I wanna say Need for Speed Underground
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  is probably what it was. But I have less memory
• 11:35
  of the specific game. which I think that is what
• 11:38
  it is, but honestly I could be completely wrong.
• 11:42
  But it was Xbox One, it was the first Xbox. But
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  I do remember that, yeah, so it had to be like
• 11:50
  2002, 2003, maybe 2001. But anyways, blacked
• 11:56
  out room, I had a stereo that had like six discs
• 12:00
  in it and had two separate speakers that were
• 12:02
  wired in. And I would turn on, They're only chasing
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  safety under oath And I would listen to that
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  record front to back while playing need for speed
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  underground. Yeah in my dark room I love that
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  and the reality is is like I'm like zoned in
• 12:21
  playing this but I'm paying more attention to
• 12:24
  the music that's happening then Then like what
• 12:28
  I'm playing. You know what I mean? No, actually
• 12:30
  I totally get it. So like if I get bad I didn't
• 12:34
  care that much. Because it's the music. Yeah,
• 12:36
  it was more about the music and then doing something
• 12:38
  in the middle of it. So here's what's funny about
• 12:41
  that, because I can't remember if it was on the
• 12:42
  original Xbox, if it was a 360. OK. But you could.
• 12:46
  I never had a 360. You could load music into
• 12:48
  the console. OK. And then it would play with
• 12:51
  games. You could be like, oh, I want you to play
• 12:52
  this album with this game. Oh, wow. And so it
• 12:56
  was Saves the Day in Reverie. Nice. That was
• 13:00
  every time we played Tony Hawk. Okay. Yeah that
• 13:03
  album would play nice and to this day whenever
• 13:06
  I go longboarding Yeah, I want to play that album
• 13:09
  of course and it could be it's like back -to
• 13:12
  -back every time I hop on my board I just start
• 13:14
  thinking of that album. Yeah Yeah, that's so
• 13:17
  fun. Yeah, but like that's so like the thing
• 13:19
  that was interesting thing about that is like
• 13:21
  I grew up in a home where My dad from the time
• 13:25
  that I was born was on staff at a church. So
• 13:31
  he had a pastoral role. Still does. At the same
• 13:34
  church, which is crazy. Really cool. Props to
• 13:38
  anybody that can stick with something and be
• 13:40
  faithful all the way through that. Regardless
• 13:43
  of if you agree or disagree with theology or
• 13:47
  if you agree or disagree with... Honestly, none
• 13:50
  of that stuff matters. What's crazy is when somebody
• 13:53
  will stick to it and feel like, this is what
• 13:55
  I'm supposed to do, and they stick to it. Like,
• 13:59
  it's so cool. So anyways, so in the tradition
• 14:04
  I grew up in was very heavy on holiness. Which
• 14:08
  is great and I like that's that's an important
• 14:11
  thing for me and it's an important thing For
• 14:15
  for Christians, it's an important doctrine that
• 14:18
  denomination shouldn't ignore and tradition shouldn't
• 14:20
  ignore Yeah, because it's like holiness is the
• 14:24
  movement towards God It's it's slowly letting
• 14:27
  go of everything else. Anyways, we're talking
• 14:29
  about video games So anyways, so and I'm like
• 14:35
  I'm like I mean, this was Chasing Safety came
• 14:39
  out in 2004. So it actually might've been like
• 14:44
  2006. No, that's not right. Cause I graduated
• 14:46
  high school. I'm not telling you. Before now.
• 14:53
  So it had to have been only Chasing Safety. Cause
• 14:55
  I was thinking maybe Defying the Great Lion,
• 14:57
  but that was 2006. Okay. and that would have
• 14:59
  been too late. You did not graduate high school.
• 15:03
  No, I graduated after that, but it would have
• 15:05
  been close enough to my graduation that it wouldn't
• 15:08
  have been. Anyways, it was definitely there chasing
• 15:13
  safety. But I thought that maybe I went from
• 15:16
  one to the next. Anyways, it was that record.
• 15:19
  And the crazy thing about that record is I bought
• 15:21
  that record in a Christian bookstore. Oh, okay.
• 15:25
  Yeah, and so like there's this whole rabbit trail
• 15:28
  which we won't get into of tooth and nail You've
• 15:30
  already brought up like three different rabbit
• 15:32
  trails. We could spend the entire episode on
• 15:35
  So like so the thing is like there was this thing
• 15:39
  with tooth and nail records solid -state records
• 15:42
  that was Florida more heavy more hardcore and
• 15:46
  then they were joined up into kind of absorbed
• 15:50
  and a part of tooth and nail and tooth and nail
• 15:54
  did this whole thing where they essentially had
• 15:58
  a label full of bands that grew up in church,
• 16:02
  were youth group kids, and then just slowly didn't
• 16:04
  go to church anymore. But all their music had
• 16:07
  spiritual theme to it, because it's how they
• 16:10
  grew up. And they're all just like 16, 17, 18
• 16:13
  year old kids that like. That's the majority
• 16:17
  of your life experience. It's like, it's gonna
• 16:19
  filter into your music. Yeah. I mean, at the
• 16:21
  time, like, oh, four, I'm like 14 or 15 years
• 16:24
  old. And so like, or 13 or 14, something like
• 16:26
  that. So like, in that time span, I mean, the
• 16:29
  guys in Under Earth are like, I think they're
• 16:32
  like 18 to 20. Like, they're really close in
• 16:35
  age at that point. And so like, the weird thing
• 16:38
  about that is like, that's all kind of happening
• 16:40
  around the same time. And for some reason, somehow,
• 16:45
  Brandon Ebel with Tooth and Nail was able to
• 16:47
  start getting Tooth and Nail records into Christian
• 16:50
  bookstores. When in reality, it should have never
• 16:54
  been in Christian bookstores. And the thing is,
• 16:56
  was Under Oath, was that a non -Christian record?
• 17:01
  They did not intend for it to be a Christian
• 17:03
  record. Their intent was not that it was a Christian
• 17:06
  record. Now, were they a bunch of guys wrestling
• 17:09
  with their Christian faith? while writing those
• 17:11
  songs and performing those songs? Absolutely.
• 17:14
  And so that was the gray area where all of a
• 17:17
  sudden you could put it in there. So I remember
• 17:18
  my dad being like, are you sure, should you be
• 17:22
  listening to that? Because if you're unaware
• 17:24
  of Under Earth, Under Earth is what would be
• 17:27
  classified as a screamo band at the time. So
• 17:30
  screamo is like, that's an evolution of metal,
• 17:36
  hardcore. That kind of came off of the the grandfathers
• 17:41
  of Screamo are like bands like Metallica or like
• 17:45
  Iron Maiden. It's like that type of stuff evolved
• 17:48
  into like that subgenre. Yeah. Yeah. And so that
• 17:52
  was always a funny thing. And so for me, it was
• 17:54
  like, yeah, there was just like turn the lights
• 17:56
  off. Let me get into this like space zone out.
• 18:00
  Listen to this like driving metal music. Yeah.
• 18:03
  Super emotional, full emotion with screaming
• 18:06
  and all this stuff. And I remember thinking like
• 18:08
  I do remember thinking, like, there's something
• 18:12
  not right about this, but it's kind of cool that
• 18:15
  I'm allowed to just listen to it in my house,
• 18:18
  where for sure, my parents are like, I don't
• 18:21
  think he's supposed to be, but we bought that
• 18:23
  record for him. At the Christian bookstore. At
• 18:25
  the Christian bookstore. Yeah. The same place
• 18:27
  where we bought all those DC Talk records for
• 18:29
  him. They have to be the same. I was like, don't
• 18:34
  care that I'm a Jesus freak. So let's not even.
• 18:42
  Yeah, so that's an interesting thing. And as
• 18:47
  that evolved, Under Earth Now, if you look up
• 18:50
  Under Earth Now, some of the guys in the band
• 18:52
  are still Christians, and they've evolved in
• 18:55
  that way, but some of them are outwardly not
• 18:58
  at all. And they're touring with bands like Korn.
• 19:01
  And they're on tour, like probably. at some point
• 19:04
  this year, I think they were on tour with like
• 19:06
  Papa Roach or something. Oh, wow. So it's like
• 19:08
  they're on bigger tours with more mainstream
• 19:11
  metal. Yeah. And like hardcore bands. So they
• 19:14
  eventually became what they really were in the
• 19:17
  first place. They were just kind of evolving
• 19:19
  out of their faith. But everyone kind of put
• 19:21
  them into this category. Yeah. They weren't putting
• 19:23
  themselves into. Yeah. So like. Yeah. The interesting
• 19:26
  thing about that is like I think I've always
• 19:28
  wrestled with as a musician like what influence
• 19:31
  like. Yeah. It's silly of me to think about the
• 19:35
  fact that if I lead worship or if I'm in a church
• 19:40
  service and I'm singing to the Lord, that that
• 19:42
  is this cosmic thing that's happening between
• 19:45
  me and my Creator. But any other music is not.
• 19:47
  Right. Yeah. No, it's funny that we do that.
• 19:51
  What do I do with that? And it's that weird framing
• 19:55
  of it. Yeah. Like when we look at what the Apostle
• 19:59
  Paul is saying. in the epistles. When he's like,
• 20:04
  for example, food sacrifice to idols. And we're
• 20:07
  like, okay, cool, for them then. But then it's
• 20:11
  like, oh no, let's actually put that into a framework
• 20:13
  for us today now. And this actually reminds me
• 20:17
  of a story when I was doing some handyman work
• 20:21
  on the East Coast. And one of the places that
• 20:26
  we were working at, the lady, the owner there,
• 20:29
  I think she's a Buddhist. They're a Buddhist
• 20:31
  or a Taoist. And so she would have her, like
• 20:35
  her statues up, and she would sacrifice candy
• 20:38
  and food every morning to these statues. And
• 20:41
  then afterwards, they're just sitting out there
• 20:43
  in public for anyone to just come and eat. And
• 20:46
  so it's funny because - She would sacrifice it?
• 20:49
  Is that what she would call it? Well, it's like
• 20:50
  offer it, I guess. Yeah, it was an offering.
• 20:51
  It was an offering. Okay, okay. Yeah. I'm just
• 20:54
  saying sacrifice for the sake of the story. Well,
• 20:55
  I'm thinking of like... Like spilling the blood
• 20:58
  of That color was running like is there red inside
• 21:05
  a peppermint It's spilled on the altar of Buddha
• 21:11
  But it'd be like it'd be offered up to them.
• 21:13
  Yeah loves peppermints. Oh, dude does he ever
• 21:18
  were those originals? Hard candies only it was
• 21:22
  funny cuz my brother was helping me at the time
• 21:24
  Yeah, and we we grabbed some and we start eating.
• 21:27
  I was like wait Thomas I think we're eating food
• 21:30
  sacrifice died And it's like we were laughing
• 21:34
  about it But when you really think about it's
• 21:36
  like oh, this is actually like what he's talking
• 21:37
  about. Yeah And we make it like a, huh, whatever,
• 21:41
  no big deal. No, she's actively worshiping a
• 21:45
  false god. And I just took part in the offering.
• 21:50
  I just dipped my hand in that plate. So the funny
• 21:54
  thing about that is that whole thing seems silly,
• 21:57
  and somebody listening to this would be like,
• 21:59
  come on. But that's what it is. Yeah. Well, did
• 22:07
  she ever take any of it? I never saw her take
• 22:11
  any of it. Okay. But I know she would offer it
• 22:13
  to people. Okay. Yeah. So she was actively offering
• 22:17
  food that was an offering to her gods to other
• 22:22
  people. Yeah. Oof. It's kind of weird. Yeah.
• 22:26
  Yeah, it is. Did you ever have like, this might
• 22:28
  be way too personal of a question. Did you ever
• 22:29
  like a legitimate, serious repentance moment?
• 22:33
  You know, I actually never felt convicted about
• 22:36
  it. Yeah. which I was like, thank God Paul gave
• 22:39
  me some grace. So I was like, I never felt convicted
• 22:43
  about it, but the thing that I felt was a realization
• 22:46
  of like, oh yeah, this is what this is. And I
• 22:51
  think that's really it. So maybe doing it, maybe
• 22:54
  approaching that the next time, you would be
• 22:56
  like, yeah, I'm not gonna touch that. I probably
• 22:58
  wouldn't touch it. You say that like you might,
• 23:01
  depending on what kind of candy it is. how hungry
• 23:06
  you are. No, I'm good. Is that a Milky Way? How
• 23:11
  is it not melting? It must be. That's incredible.
• 23:16
  We live in Florida. What's going on here? That's
• 23:19
  pretty amazing. Maybe I should have it. I should
• 23:21
  give it a try. Oh, man. But I guess it's like
• 23:25
  it's what you're saying. It's that framework
• 23:26
  around it. Yeah. And it's putting into like everything
• 23:29
  is like it's connected to this. these cosmic
• 23:32
  events. Yeah. Do not make it sound super weird
• 23:35
  but it's like let's put it for what it is. Yeah
• 23:37
  and that's a great that's a great um a point
• 23:40
  in the conversation because it's that idea of
• 23:42
  like where does conviction lie so in that instance
• 23:45
  you're like all right this is something that's
• 23:47
  not it I'm not convicted by that I might be I
• 23:51
  might choose not to do it the next time I see
• 23:53
  it um and potentially I probably would just stay
• 23:56
  away from it because like yeah Who needs a Werther's
• 23:59
  Originals anyways? And who wants a bloody peppermint?
• 24:02
  Did that un -melting Snickers? You definitely
• 24:06
  should not have that. If it's 90 degrees, and
• 24:10
  you're on the beach coast of Florida, and the
• 24:13
  Snickers is not melting, Milky Way. Milky Way.
• 24:16
  Well, you said Snickers a second time. I did.
• 24:18
  But either one. I just thought of that one. Either
• 24:19
  one. If there's a chocolate bar that's not melting,
• 24:21
  you should not eat that. No. For many reasons.
• 24:27
  You should call the Mars company immediately.
• 24:31
  But the - Boy, do I have an anomaly for you.
• 24:35
  They'd try to figure out how to manufacture that.
• 24:36
  No, they're like, you're the 10 ,000th call today.
• 24:39
  You're on the beach coast? Yeah. That old space
• 24:42
  coast you gotta look out for. Look across the
• 24:44
  street real quick. And you look up and somebody
• 24:47
  across the street's on the phone also. with the
• 24:49
  same person staring at the Milky Way. Now they're
• 24:54
  looking at you because they're also being told
• 24:55
  to look over and you just thumbs up. What are
• 24:59
  we even talking about? I don't know. But like
• 25:03
  so so the thing that's interesting about that
• 25:05
  is like so then taking that into music and taking
• 25:07
  that into the idea of like well are there are
• 25:11
  there like are there other temples of worship?
• 25:15
  Yes. But are there is there an in -between space?
• 25:19
  Is there a space where we may participate in
• 25:22
  something or be exposed to something or have
• 25:25
  the opportunity to participate in something that's
• 25:28
  not actually in a temple, that's not explicitly
• 25:31
  to the Lord or to a false god, but it may actually
• 25:37
  just be like Coachella or like a concert. And
• 25:41
  like, is Coachella demonic? I don't know, never
• 25:45
  been. Like, are there demonic things happening?
• 25:48
  Probably. Is there somebody there that loves
• 25:50
  Jesus? Probably. Like, should they be there?
• 25:54
  And like, I don't know. I don't know if they're
• 25:56
  convicted by what they're doing or not. Like,
• 25:59
  maybe they're just there to see, like, somebody.
• 26:01
  They wouldn't buy an overpriced bag. Yeah, I
• 26:03
  don't know. They're just like, yeah, who knows?
• 26:06
  But that's not really what I'm saying. I'm saying
• 26:08
  more so, like, is there music nowadays that is
• 26:14
  doing something that's seemingly harmless, but
• 26:17
  in reality, it's worshiping other gods. And simple
• 26:21
  participation in it is causing us to go like,
• 26:25
  huh, what should we think about that? Should
• 26:28
  we actually listen to this? Because it's kind
• 26:31
  of sick. And I don't mean it in a bad way, but
• 26:35
  you listen to some of the music, it's like, this
• 26:36
  is very intriguing. Yeah, absolutely. And I'll
• 26:39
  go to the extreme. You ready? I'm ready. I've
• 26:44
  been waiting for this. I've gone to the extreme
• 26:49
  on this a couple of times. And this is like,
• 26:52
  I'll just get really interested in something.
• 26:54
  And this is like the second or third time I've
• 26:55
  done this. But I've just been like, like reading
• 26:59
  a little bit, trying not to watch too many clips,
• 27:02
  but like looking up into like the history of
• 27:05
  Slipknot. And it's bands like Slipknot where
• 27:12
  I'm like, what is happening here? Like, what
• 27:15
  is actually going on? Because the people that
• 27:17
  go to those shows, they're just like going to
• 27:19
  a concert. The same way, the same way I've done
• 27:22
  for years. Just like going to a concert at any
• 27:26
  random music venue. But like, you're going to
• 27:30
  see Slipknot. And it's like, well what is Slipknot,
• 27:35
  like what's happening at their concerts? And
• 27:38
  a buddy of ours, shout out Dustin, Was sent us
• 27:46
  a band the other night. Yeah, it was like what's
• 27:48
  going on with these guys, right? Yeah And it
• 27:52
  was like oh Yeah, and I think that's one is like
• 27:55
  that is the extreme what language were they speaking?
• 27:58
  It was Nordic wasn't it was just Nordic. So I
• 28:00
  don't know Something Nordic. Yeah, but they were
• 28:04
  in order language like metal band. Yes. Yeah
• 28:07
  So like all the music is like really intricate.
• 28:10
  Yeah, and then Paul looks up like And it was
• 28:12
  like, it was interesting, but it was like, this
• 28:14
  sounds weird though. Yeah. So then Paul looks
• 28:17
  up the lyrics of what they're actually saying.
• 28:20
  Do you want to expand on that? Yeah. I look it
• 28:22
  up and it's like, Odin is awesome. Like he, he
• 28:26
  like defeats his enemies and blah, blah, blah,
• 28:29
  blah, blah. And it's like all these titles and
• 28:33
  successes and feats of strength that Odin has
• 28:36
  done. Yeah. So like, let's praise him for that.
• 28:39
  Yeah. So it's a Nordic band. ancestry of like
• 28:44
  the Gauls and the Vikings and all of these ancient
• 28:48
  civilizations that kind of come from giants.
• 28:51
  Yeah. Not kind of, but they do. I mean, based
• 28:54
  on their myth, that's, yeah. Yeah. And this band,
• 28:58
  this modern band is playing like heavy music
• 29:02
  that's like kind of battle cry music. Yeah. And
• 29:07
  the lyric is literally worshiping. It's worship
• 29:10
  for Odin. Yeah. Which is, but it's not even just
• 29:13
  like, hey, let's just like mention Odin. It is
• 29:17
  like, this is about him. It's like lyrically,
• 29:19
  it's literally set to, it's setting, I don't
• 29:24
  know why I went that way. It's setting Odin as
• 29:28
  a god to be praised. Yes. Which is, it's literally
• 29:32
  worship to Odin. Yeah. And it's like, uh, maybe
• 29:35
  don't listen to that. That one I won't if I keep.
• 29:38
  But then I also like, like going back to Slipknot,
• 29:43
  I was like, what is, cause Slipknot is, if you
• 29:45
  don't know, and I'm gonna stop saying their name
• 29:47
  over and over again. I don't want them to appear
• 29:49
  suddenly. It's like, but they like their whole,
• 29:55
  they have a bunch of things, but their main thing
• 29:57
  that they're known for is they wear masks on
• 29:59
  stage. And so they all have masks. And I was
• 30:02
  like, okay, what's the mask? Cause like all the
• 30:05
  masters are unique and specific. And it's like,
• 30:08
  turns out the masks are, individual to the individual
• 30:11
  player. So each individual player picks out their
• 30:14
  identity and then they get a mask made based
• 30:17
  on their identity. Interesting. Turns out that
• 30:22
  the way that they would describe it is that their
• 30:26
  music is very guttural and tribal. and like on
• 30:31
  stage they're very like like they have multiple
• 30:34
  DJs on stage they have a drummer they have other
• 30:38
  percussion drums who play on like like uh massive
• 30:43
  drums and like metal and they're just like yeah
• 30:46
  it's very like this active like really yeah this
• 30:49
  like tribal thing and and it's like okay so Each
• 30:54
  one of them picks out a mask that represents
• 30:56
  their identity. And then when I looked up like
• 30:59
  how they approach that, their explanation for
• 31:02
  it or one of their explanations for it, one of
• 31:06
  the members explanation for it was they felt
• 31:08
  like what they were doing on stage was a version
• 31:13
  of themselves. And the mask that they chose was
• 31:17
  a physical representation of what they felt like
• 31:20
  was going on inside of them when they played
• 31:22
  the music. Interesting. So, they basically said,
• 31:28
  when we start to play, when we get ready to play,
• 31:33
  we are going inside of ourselves, and the animalistic,
• 31:38
  that's the language they're using, version of
• 31:41
  us comes out on the stage, and the mask helps
• 31:44
  us get to that point. And you're like... It's
• 31:52
  like... So, are we talking about Nebuchadnezzar
• 31:56
  that takes on the wild beast and goes into the
• 32:02
  wilderness? Like, is that what we're talking
• 32:03
  about? Like, are we talking about, like, who
• 32:06
  is it that they're... And if you look at their
• 32:07
  imagery, their imagery is very demonic and satanic.
• 32:12
  There's a lot of symbols and things like that
• 32:15
  that go into that. And it's like, they're kind
• 32:17
  of saying, like, what they do is... What they
• 32:21
  feel like is their true animalistic self They're
• 32:24
  releasing that out and identifying it through
• 32:27
  their masks on stage thing so if you go to a
• 32:30
  slipknot concert what you're experiencing is
• 32:34
  whatever They're channeling hmm. You're being
• 32:38
  exposed to it in their concert dang, which is
• 32:42
  like That's like the most demonic like biblically
• 32:45
  demonic thing. Yeah, that's That's pretty wild.
• 32:48
  Yeah. So it's like, it's like, uh, like, uh,
• 32:52
  you shouldn't listen to Slipknot like the blah,
• 32:54
  blah, blah. It's probably satanic. No, like they're
• 32:57
  actually, what they're describing is, is actual
• 33:00
  like satanic practices. And like we see things
• 33:04
  like that through the Old Testament. We see things
• 33:06
  like that in the New Testament too. It's crazy.
• 33:09
  It's like, there's, there's all these things
• 33:11
  where worship is represented in different ways.
• 33:15
  And that one, it's like, we don't necessarily
• 33:17
  know who they're worshiping. Like I could probably
• 33:21
  do more research and maybe there is something
• 33:23
  specific, but in reality, like all you have to
• 33:26
  do is kind of look at that and go, okay, they're
• 33:29
  letting their true selves from within come, the
• 33:33
  animalistic self in them come out. And that's
• 33:36
  how they're, I mean, they like, they like beat
• 33:38
  each other up on stage. That's crazy. Yeah, like.
• 33:41
  like they'll they've had like broken limbs they'll
• 33:43
  like throw each other off of stages and yeah
• 33:46
  it's like what what's happening that yeah it's
• 33:50
  interesting because i feel like and that's a
• 33:52
  band that's been around for like 25 for a while
• 33:54
  yeah i feel like so putting that into the framework
• 33:57
  and i think one of the reasons that we're kind
• 33:59
  of um blind to some of that we don't think about
• 34:03
  it that way is because that spiritual mindset
• 34:05
  isn't something that's innate to us anymore yeah
• 34:08
  and so Before we might be able to look at me
• 34:10
  like oh, yeah, they're worshiping this God or
• 34:12
  they're worshiping some other God, right? But
• 34:14
  we don't think about that and we're like, that's
• 34:16
  just weird, right? Like that's what we would
• 34:17
  say Yeah, it's like no. No, it's not just weird.
• 34:19
  Like there's a lot going on here Yeah, and like
• 34:22
  that's again like that's a more extreme very
• 34:24
  blatant version of it, right? Same with like
• 34:26
  the the Norse band Yeah, the Nordic band and
• 34:29
  it's like yeah, like this is a very blatant in
• 34:31
  your face But then it's like, okay, now it can
• 34:34
  get more subtle. And so that's where it's like,
• 34:36
  we need to be paying attention. Like, okay, what
• 34:38
  is happening here? What are we exposing ourselves
• 34:41
  and participating in? Yeah. And there's things
• 34:43
  like, without getting too much into it, like
• 34:46
  there's things where like hip hop culture, like
• 34:49
  if you look back on where hip hop, the actual
• 34:51
  sound came from, it literally did come from an
• 34:55
  African tribe and it was brought over to the
• 34:58
  United States by a couple of guys. Interesting.
• 35:01
  And it was... tribalistic sonic sounds. That's
• 35:07
  why anybody listening to this might be like,
• 35:11
  yeah, I've heard people say that, like, I've
• 35:13
  even heard people say, like, nothing with that
• 35:15
  beat could be worship. And I've even heard Christian
• 35:19
  rappers say things like that. Or quote people
• 35:23
  saying things like that. And they're like, yeah,
• 35:26
  but listen to this. And it's like all the lyrics
• 35:28
  are glorifying God, but then there's like this
• 35:31
  kind of tribal beat underneath it. It's like,
• 35:34
  can it be redeemed? Sure, it can be redeemed.
• 35:37
  But is there something to it that needs to be
• 35:40
  separated? And I'm not saying don't listen to
• 35:43
  hip hop. I'm just saying maybe think about it.
• 35:46
  Maybe think about. how you feel, maybe think
• 35:49
  about what's going on in you spiritually. And
• 35:52
  I think sometimes we're quick to listen to people
• 35:55
  preaching. And we're quick to go, I disagree
• 35:59
  with that theology. But we don't turn on the
• 36:03
  radio and go, let me assess if this is affecting
• 36:07
  my heart. Let me assess if this is affecting
• 36:09
  my spirit at all. And I feel like a lot, because
• 36:13
  I think there's especially Amongst Christians
• 36:15
  in my experience. Yeah is we over emphasize lyrics
• 36:18
  and we under represent Instrumentation. Yeah
• 36:23
  in music. Yeah, and it's like yeah, that's like
• 36:26
  that's a key thing in Music it can be is like
• 36:30
  Like what like what is happening? frequency rhythmically
• 36:36
  With what the instruments are doing. Yeah, because
• 36:39
  like yeah, the lyrics are important. Absolutely,
• 36:41
  right but You can say the name Jesus all you
• 36:45
  want over an evil beat, and it doesn't make it
• 36:50
  any less evil. No, it's almost like what you've
• 36:53
  created is an active war. Yeah. It's like you're
• 36:57
  almost going like, here's music that is representative
• 37:02
  of the enemy, but then I'm going to speak the
• 37:08
  name of Jesus and rebuke it. While it's happening
• 37:12
  simultaneous, right? So it's like this oil and
• 37:14
  water thing that's happening Yeah, but that doesn't
• 37:17
  mean that like certain sounds and certain things
• 37:20
  Are particularly demonic, right? Right, but it
• 37:25
  just means like Maybe if a like we've talked
• 37:29
  about that a lot with with music like maybe if
• 37:31
  the lyric is happy There's still could be something
• 37:34
  baked into the music Not because of what it sounds
• 37:38
  like, but because of what the artist's intent
• 37:40
  was. And I think that's a big thing. What's the
• 37:43
  artist's intent? That's huge. And if the artist's
• 37:46
  intent was to create something that was evil,
• 37:53
  then you may not know that if they put happy
• 37:55
  lyrics on top. And then it's like, well, what
• 37:57
  are we doing here? You know what I mean? So all
• 38:00
  that to say... Man, I love some metal. I do too.
• 38:07
  And that's where I think that's the, it's not
• 38:09
  a throw the baby out at the bath water. It's
• 38:11
  like, no, it's a case by case situation and it's
• 38:14
  a little complicated. Yeah, it's just - But we
• 38:16
  have to just be in tune to what's happening.
• 38:18
  Yeah, like maybe don't - Do you like that a little?
• 38:20
  I do, yeah. Like maybe consider all the things
• 38:25
  going on and don't just critique other, like
• 38:29
  maybe like make it to where - you're not just
• 38:34
  critiquing other Christians or preachers, but
• 38:39
  you're also critiquing everything that you intake.
• 38:42
  So like maybe broaden that and not just like
• 38:46
  hate on other Christians, but instead go, maybe
• 38:51
  I need to just take this knowledge and the word
• 38:55
  of God and allow it to divide. What is happening
• 39:01
  so that the things that I let in whether it's
• 39:03
  music or? TV shows or movies or concerts or whatever
• 39:07
  you're at Just like be aware of that like because
• 39:11
  even though they may not be talking from the
• 39:14
  whatever spiritual book like it they could be
• 39:20
  Representing it and it might be baked into the
• 39:22
  music that they're playing with the intent that
• 39:24
  they have for what they're doing Yeah, and it's
• 39:27
  like we also need to discern that Yeah, absolutely.
• 39:31
  Not just hate on preachers that are heretics.
• 39:34
  Yeah. So on that note, three, two, one. Nice.
• 39:50
  Nice. Whoops, we have electric guitar again.
• 39:54
  Oopsies! Uh oh. Did I do that? Sorry, guys. Different
• 39:59
  kind of electric guitar. Oh, my bad. We also
• 40:02
  have headphones on, so we're going to talk real
• 40:03
  weird. Whoa! You know it's rough we can hear
• 40:07
  ourselves. I know. This is why we don't wear
• 40:10
  headphones. Because we'd experiment more. We
• 40:12
  like to hear ourselves too much. Yeah. Stop talking.
• 40:15
  I can't hear myself. Much easier without them.
• 40:21
  But yeah, it's song time. It is. I'm so excited.
• 40:24
  So the funny thing about this is like, I literally
• 40:27
  was like, uh, we were, we were talking a little
• 40:30
  bit about this episode and then you were like,
• 40:34
  you want a metal song? I was like, that would
• 40:36
  be awesome. He's like, great. Got it. And I was
• 40:40
  like, how did you have it so fast? We weren't
• 40:41
  even talking about anything. Metal song. Got
• 40:46
  it. Done. Here we go. Paul didn't know the side
• 40:50
  of you. You know, so it's funny. So, um, When
• 40:54
  I first, it's funny, cause when I first started
• 40:56
  playing in bands, it was just like, yeah, we
• 40:58
  play metal. It's like, I'm trying to come up
• 41:01
  with like, Psy, Psy Metal and Garfunkel. Yeah.
• 41:06
  Which is funny cause - Wait, was that your first
• 41:09
  band? Psy Metal and Garfunkel? No, was your first
• 41:14
  band a metal band? Yeah. Mine was too. Are you
• 41:17
  serious? Yes. I feel like it's like the horror
• 41:18
  film for directors. You just start there. But
• 41:21
  we quickly bailed. Oh, no, we never actually
• 41:24
  played a show. We just got together and rehearsed.
• 41:27
  Yeah. That's awesome. And it was funny because
• 41:32
  at that time, my only instrument was piano. Oh.
• 41:35
  But I was like, I want to play metal, though.
• 41:37
  I mean, Chris Dudley, under oath. True. There
• 41:39
  you go. But then I was like, well, I'm just going
• 41:41
  to play bass. So I just started messing around
• 41:42
  with bass. And then I was like, I want to play
• 41:45
  guitar. Yeah. So I started. Started to learn
• 41:48
  a little bit which is fun. So we have distortion
• 41:51
  all the way through this one. Yeah. Hope you
• 41:53
  guys like it It's gonna be fun. They'll like
• 41:55
  it. Let's make not make this one too long for
• 41:57
  those people that don't I don't think this one
• 41:59
  deserves to be that long. It's metal after all
• 42:01
  I remember one of my brother's friends Talking
• 42:05
  about hardcore music in particular, but I feel
• 42:07
  like there's some overlap there. They're gonna
• 42:10
  hate me for saying that But he's like if you
• 42:12
  can't get your message across in a minute or
• 42:14
  less, it's not hardcore I like that. That's very
• 42:18
  hardcore. Pretty good. Because you're not hardcore.
• 42:21
  I let you live hardcore. I let you live hardcore.
• 42:25
  So it's funny, so I don't have a metal voice.
• 42:27
  That's one of those movies I watched a hundred
• 42:29
  times. I watched it so many times. Yeah, School
• 42:31
  of Rock. Classic. Classic Jack Black. So it's
• 42:35
  funny, I don't have like a metal voice, because
• 42:38
  I never sang metal. No. Or screamed. This is
• 42:41
  gonna be the most gentle metal you've ever heard.
• 42:43
  Actually, this is exactly where Screamo came.
• 42:47
  It was people with really high, gentle, clean
• 42:51
  vocals that would also scream. That's fair. So
• 42:55
  you have this heavy music with this really gentle
• 42:57
  pop vocal. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah,
• 43:00
  yeah. There's a bunch of guys like Anthony Green.
• 43:02
  Some of those guys sing clean. Craig Owens. Beautiful.
• 43:04
  Yeah. Yeah. like yeah so like yeah some of it's
• 43:08
  like how are you singing that high and then they
• 43:11
  would shift and scream this like really low it's
• 43:14
  intense yeah man it's it's impressive like you
• 43:17
  get like a good screamer yeah it's pretty cool
• 43:19
  it's cool yeah so i will say this um is a little
• 43:25
  bit all over the place but i think that's part
• 43:27
  of the fun i'll try and growl at some point you
• 43:30
  should I'll see how I can make it sound in the
• 43:32
  mic. Now that we have headphones on, I can adjust.
• 43:35
  And I'm kind of having fun with the vocals, because
• 43:37
  that's just what we're here for. Okay. We're
• 43:39
  gonna see how it goes. And if I can remember
• 43:40
  these lyrics. Hopefully I don't ruin my voice
• 43:43
  before we get to the next part. You're like,
• 43:45
  yeah, that's so nice. Hey, so glad you're here
• 43:49
  and welcome back to my show. It's been a rough
• 43:54
  one, guys. Like we're just gonna finish the recording
• 43:57
  next week It's metal night, it's metal night
• 44:05
  you ready go for it, okay What am I can I just
• 44:09
  listen? Yeah, I'll just growl sometimes. Okay,
• 44:12
  sweet. Okay. I'm just gonna do the the I don't
• 44:14
  really have a chorus I'm just gonna do the first
• 44:15
  a couple of verses that I have Okay, and I'll
• 44:18
  stop and then we'll we'll do it again if we want.
• 44:20
  We'll do a chorus like do it melodically do a
• 44:23
  chorus We'll see. And then I'll try and scream.
• 44:27
  I'll give you a drop. Funny story. Yeah. There
• 44:32
  was, at one point when I was in youth, they wanted
• 44:37
  us to do this song that was kind of heavy. And
• 44:43
  there was a section where I was like, there could
• 44:45
  be a scream right here. Yes. And I worked up
• 44:48
  to be able to do the scream. Love that and I
• 44:51
  was ready to do it. We got to it and I screamed
• 44:55
  my mic was off Mike off it was you they knew
• 44:59
  you were gonna do it. It was off and I'm do I'm
• 45:02
  like And and I look back and I'm like and so
• 45:07
  everybody in the room is just looking at me like
• 45:08
  what is he doing? We can't hear it What if I
• 45:17
  told them later? It's like I actually didn't
• 45:19
  scream at all. I just made it look like I did
• 45:21
  You muted it for yourself. Yeah. Yeah, I intentionally
• 45:25
  left my mic off. I Think it was a wired mic too.
• 45:28
  So there's nothing I could there's no way. Yeah
• 45:30
  Yeah, cuz you can't do metal without a wired
• 45:33
  mic cuz how you supposed to do the flicks I don't
• 45:35
  know if yeah the flicks like, you know when you
• 45:37
  spin the mic I got the flicks. You gotta like
• 45:39
  wrap it around your neck. Yeah. Oh boy Alright.
• 45:42
  Those guys are showmen. Here we go. Metal. Metal
• 45:45
  Knight. Oh man, this is gonna be fun. In the
• 46:04
  land of Pergamon, there is a throne of Satan!
• 46:10
  In the end he will not stay But he'll fight you,
• 46:16
  invite you Don't let him take control Invite
• 46:33
  you! Sorry, keep going Try and make it through.
• 47:08
  Was that the breakdown that was part of the breakdown?
• 47:12
  You actually are leaning like very Jack Black.
• 47:15
  I'm trying I thought I'd make it more fun This
• 47:22
  is awesome man the headphones really make this
• 47:24
  a different experience I told you I was like
• 47:27
  I just have to have fun these the vocals Yeah,
• 47:29
  all right. Let's do it again and leave a space
• 47:31
  for me to scream Make a chorus for me Okay, I
• 47:36
  got you. Just like do something a little breakdown.
• 47:39
  Yeah, do a breakdown. Okay? Are you ready? Can
• 47:44
  we just do the rest of the podcast? This is our
• 47:47
  whole podcast. We're just playing around metal
• 47:49
  songs. Oh So good. There's so much fun. It's
• 47:54
  also listen to the lyrics cuz it's Might be telling
• 47:58
  you something. There's a good chance Here we
• 48:01
  go. All right metal night with Stephen and Paul
• 48:03
  or If you're listening to this at 4am, metal
• 48:08
  morning to you. Good metal morning. Good metal
• 48:11
  morning to you. Good metal muses. Be sure to
• 48:17
  take your metal muses. Okay, this is too much
• 48:25
  fun. I was trying to do my pinch harmonics. See,
• 48:30
  the beast is coming out of you, Paul. You gotta
• 48:32
  be careful. It'll bite you! I'll do it again,
• 48:38
  don't you worry. I'll echo it. In the land of
• 48:54
  Pergamon There's a throne of Satan In the end
• 49:01
  he will not stand But he'll fight you and bite
• 49:05
  you, bite you Don't let him take control Don't
• 49:12
  let him take control over you Don't let them
• 49:38
  take control! Invite you! Invite you! I invite
• 50:09
  you to visit Mesopotamia Mesopotamia Mesopotamia
• 50:17
  Mesopotamia Mesopotamia Mesopotamia Mesopotamia
• 50:26
  Mesopotamia Mesopotamia Mesopotamia Mesopotamia
• 50:30
  Mesopotamia Don't let them bite you! Three, two,
• 50:45
  one... So, Stephen... I might be drinking more
• 50:55
  water this time. We'll see. Yeah, I guess neither
• 50:59
  of us warmed up for that at all. We just kind
• 51:00
  of... Went into it. It's 4 a .m. You don't need
• 51:03
  to warm up. No You're either already awake and
• 51:08
  exhausted Or you're you're either the most warm
• 51:12
  because you've been up. Yeah, or you're the most
• 51:16
  cold You're either either something bad happened
• 51:22
  last night or You woke up really early. I'm actually
• 51:28
  curious how many people are actually listening
• 51:29
  to this at 4 a .m. When it drops zero Zero people.
• 51:33
  Zero people listen at 4 a .m. Yeah, because I
• 51:37
  usually wake up between 4 30 and 5. My first
• 51:40
  thoughts are like, hmm, I should listen to a
• 51:42
  podcast. My first thoughts are usually like,
• 51:46
  why did I do this? Why did I go to sleep one
• 51:50
  hour ago? Yeah. That makes sense. Why did I even
• 51:55
  set an alarm for this? Well, because you wouldn't
• 51:58
  have woken up. Yeah, that's true. Oh, yeah, you
• 51:59
  just stay up. Is that what you mean? Just keep
• 52:01
  on going? Yeah, I wasn't tracking. My bad. I'll
• 52:06
  try and we'll track. We'll track. We're together.
• 52:09
  We're together on this. Well, you know, in light
• 52:12
  of everything we've been through with this pod
• 52:13
  in this episode so far. OK. Podcast as a whole
• 52:16
  too. I have a question for you. Wait. This is
• 52:23
  seven times three. This is gonna be a weird question
• 52:30
  then. You're like, wait, what? Hopefully, well,
• 52:38
  maybe we shouldn't say that. It'll make sense
• 52:39
  later. Okay. Maybe. If it makes sense, it makes
• 52:42
  sense. If it doesn't, oh well. Oops. Oops, did
• 52:46
  we do that? Just think about what seven times
• 52:48
  three is and see what happens. See what happens.
• 52:53
  Don't think about it too long, actually. No,
• 52:55
  please don't. Or write a metal song about it.
• 52:57
  Don't spend too much time on it. In 7 -3 timing.
• 53:03
  Well, I like that. That'd be kind of wild. Yeah,
• 53:05
  I'm into it. Don't send me that. Don't do it.
• 53:10
  But I have a question. OK, I like questions.
• 53:12
  So we've talked about music today, played a metal
• 53:16
  song. Yeah. And we started off with Saint Antipas.
• 53:20
  We did. And something in there, maybe I have
• 53:25
  a question for you. Okay. St. Antipas is an interesting
• 53:28
  one. He's very interesting. You don't quite see
• 53:30
  it coming when you're like, okay, we talked about
• 53:32
  St. Peter. Yeah. We talked about Paul. We talked
• 53:35
  about Stephen. We talked about Barnabas. St.
• 53:39
  Antipas? Didn't see that one coming. No, because
• 53:42
  I'm nowhere. Gotta keep reading, guys. Keep reading.
• 53:46
  He's in there. Antipas. I like it. So. my question
• 53:50
  for you okay today tonight this morning whenever
• 53:56
  is is zeus satan it huh could you please repeat
• 54:15
  the question Sure, it's very simple, at least
• 54:18
  to say. Is Zeus Satan? Interesting you should
• 54:25
  ask. Is it? Yes, three, two, one. It's already
• 54:30
  the next episode. Saint next person. At some
• 54:35
  point we need to do that. That would be great.
• 54:37
  At some point we will do that. But it is part
• 54:40
  of the episode. We just immediately cut to the
• 54:42
  next scene We just read it a week early just
• 54:45
  right in the middle of the episode So to come
• 54:50
  not on this one maybe to be honest, we'll probably
• 54:52
  forget about it and it'll never happen more than
• 54:55
  100 % But you'll always know we told you that
• 54:59
  if you listened if you did it Maybe they're just
• 55:08
  watching, I don't know. I only watch on mute.
• 55:14
  Favorite podcast. Favorite podcast, I love the
• 55:17
  still background. The nice brown wood. Just watching
• 55:21
  them go between fits of laughter. And confusion.
• 55:25
  Yeah. And then sometimes there's a guitar all
• 55:27
  of a sudden. Weird. Who knows? So is Zeus Satan?
• 55:31
  Yeah. Okay, so you mentioned Saint Antipas. And
• 55:37
  so I'm trying to put all the clues together.
• 55:39
  Yeah, and I don't even know if they all apply.
• 55:41
  I think they do. I think somehow everything we've
• 55:44
  done up to this point all ties in. So Saint Antipas
• 55:52
  in the description, it talks about him being
• 55:56
  the one, the martyr who's mentioned in Revelation
• 56:00
  two. Yeah. So with your question. is Zeus, Satan,
• 56:06
  maybe we should go back to, I'm gonna take your
• 56:09
  clue, like, Blue's Clues, and I'm gonna go back
• 56:14
  to the first clue. Yeah, yeah. And go, all right,
• 56:16
  Saint Antipas, he's mentioned, or in his description,
• 56:22
  he is mentioned as the Antipas in Revelation
• 56:25
  2. Correct. So let's read Revelation 2. I love
• 56:28
  that. Let's see what's there. Let's see what
• 56:30
  the clue has for us. This is the treasure. Okay.
• 56:35
  So, uh, Antipas, Antipas, where are you, Antipas?
• 56:39
  It's 2 13, right? Oh, there you are, Antipas.
• 56:42
  So let me read what comes before it. Oh, the
• 56:43
  church in Pergamum. What? I heard you sing that
• 56:47
  in the lyric. Is that a spice? Is it? Like on
• 56:52
  your potatoes? Put some Pergamum. Can I get some
• 56:54
  Pergamum over here? Don't put that on your food.
• 56:59
  Hey Church in Pergamum, too much spice. Honestly,
• 57:03
  kind of true. A little too much spice. So, Revelation
• 57:08
  2, starting in verse 12, because Antipas is in
• 57:12
  13, I'll jump back for a little bit of context.
• 57:14
  Not too much, just one verse. Um, Revelation
• 57:18
  2, it says, to the Church in Pergamum, and to
• 57:21
  the Angel of the Church in Pergamum, write. Okay.
• 57:26
  Love that. Let's not, we're not going to take
• 57:28
  a ton of rabbit trails. Interestingly enough,
• 57:34
  what is said to John the Revelator is, write
• 57:37
  this not to the church in Pergamum, but write
• 57:40
  it to the angel of the church in Pergamum. So
• 57:46
  are you telling me that this revelation was not
• 57:50
  written to mere mortals. But instead was written
• 57:56
  to the angel of the church in Pergamum. And what
• 58:00
  are angels? Angelos? Angelos. What are they?
• 58:03
  The messengers. Of God. Yes. Bringing down the
• 58:07
  message from heaven to earth. So to the angel
• 58:10
  of the church in Pergamum, write this. I added
• 58:14
  this by the way. The words of him who has the
• 58:18
  sharp two edged sword. I know where you dwell,
• 58:23
  where Satan's throne is, yet you hold fast my
• 58:28
  name, and you did not deny my faith, even in
• 58:32
  the days of Antipas. I've heard of him before.
• 58:35
  My faithful witness. That's cool to be called
• 58:38
  a faithful witness. That's pretty good to hear.
• 58:41
  Yeah. Who was killed among you. Mm, now it's
• 58:45
  so great. Where Satan dwells. So, Antipas. was
• 58:51
  a faithful witness. And even in the days where
• 58:54
  Antipas was living, there were still yet faithful
• 58:59
  believers. This is what's being written to the
• 59:02
  church, to the angel to give to the church in
• 59:05
  Pergamum. But I have a few things against you.
• 59:09
  Okay. So I like that. Start out with like a positive.
• 59:13
  Hey, even in the tough days when Antipas was
• 59:17
  alive and was martyred, by being burned in a
• 59:22
  cauldron shaped like a bowl. Yeah, they toasted
• 59:25
  them in there. That they used to use in order
• 59:27
  to remove demons from people. Yeah. We'll get
• 59:30
  to that in a minute. That's, yeah. So in those
• 59:36
  days, even, they were faithful. But I have a
• 59:39
  few things against you. You have some there who
• 59:42
  hold the teaching, not everybody, but some, who
• 59:45
  hold the teaching of Balaam. who taught Balak
• 59:49
  to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel.
• 59:55
  And I believe that story is in Numbers, the book
• 59:57
  of Numbers. That sounds right, yeah. To put a
• 1:00:01
  stumbling block before the sons of Israel so
• 1:00:03
  that they might eat food sacrificed to idols
• 1:00:06
  and practice sexual immorality. That sounds a
• 1:00:10
  little bit like the bleeding peppermints. Yeah.
• 1:00:13
  That were sacrificed or offered to the to the
• 1:00:17
  to Buddha. Yeah earlier in this episode Yeah,
• 1:00:20
  not in the book of Revelation though. They didn't
• 1:00:22
  mention peppermints. They didn't thank God Chapter
• 1:00:26
  verse 15. So also you have some who hold the
• 1:00:29
  teaching of the Nicolaitans Therefore repent
• 1:00:33
  if not, I will come to you soon and war against
• 1:00:36
  them with the sword of my mouth He who has an
• 1:00:40
  ear, let him hear what the spirit says to the
• 1:00:43
  churches. Then the next part's very confusing
• 1:00:46
  to me. And I'm gonna read it, but we're not gonna
• 1:00:48
  talk about it at all. I love that. And then it
• 1:00:52
  ends it by saying, to the one who conquers, I
• 1:00:56
  will give some of the hidden manna. What? And
• 1:01:00
  I will give him a white stone. Huh? With a new
• 1:01:04
  name written on the stone that no one knows except
• 1:01:06
  the one who receives it. Why? These things I
• 1:01:11
  do not know. This is Stephen talking. We're not
• 1:01:16
  gonna talk about that part at all. That's for
• 1:01:17
  another time, maybe. But that's what was given
• 1:01:20
  to the angel of the church in Pergamum to write,
• 1:01:24
  which is fascinating. It is fascinating. So there's
• 1:01:26
  a couple of things here. So we go, all right,
• 1:01:28
  say Antipas. Your question was, is Zeus Satan?
• 1:01:31
  Yeah. Well, Antipas was in... Pergamum. In fact,
• 1:01:40
  even from our reading, we see that the Apostle
• 1:01:43
  John had placed Antipas as the church leader
• 1:01:49
  in where? In Pergamum. In Pergamum. So Pergamum
• 1:01:54
  is important to Antipas. Yeah, that's where he
• 1:01:57
  is. And it's also mentioned in Revelation as
• 1:02:00
  a place where they did some good things. Yeah.
• 1:02:06
  But some, some were following the theology or
• 1:02:12
  the teachings of Balaam who taught Balak to put
• 1:02:15
  a stumbling block before the sons of Israel so
• 1:02:18
  that they might eat food sacrificed to idols
• 1:02:19
  and practice sexual immorality. So also you have
• 1:02:23
  some who hold the teaching of the Nicolaitans.
• 1:02:25
  So some of you doing all right, doing pretty
• 1:02:28
  good. Some of you not doing great. You're pretty
• 1:02:31
  far off. And I'm gonna be against you is what
• 1:02:34
  the Lord says. But Pergamum is where? It is where
• 1:02:41
  Satan's throne is. That's not speculation. That's
• 1:02:46
  literally in Revelation 2. So Satan's throne
• 1:02:51
  is in Pergamum. Crazy. Right? It's pretty crazy.
• 1:02:59
  I mean, yeah, it's a crazy thought. It is a crazy
• 1:03:02
  thought because we go, all right, where's the
• 1:03:06
  throne of God? We would say in heaven. It's in
• 1:03:10
  heaven, right? It's in the holy place. It's in
• 1:03:12
  the throne room of God. The holy of holies, the
• 1:03:16
  innermost part of the heavens is where the throne
• 1:03:19
  room is. But there's a ruler of the air and the
• 1:03:24
  ruler of the air resides on earth. Does not reside
• 1:03:29
  there. His legs were taken from him and he was
• 1:03:35
  made to crawl in the dust. That's what God tells
• 1:03:39
  the ancient serpent, who is also Satan, which
• 1:03:44
  is also mentioned in Revelation. Tying the ancient
• 1:03:47
  serpent of Genesis to the Satan, or to Satan,
• 1:03:52
  proper noun, not the Satan. But Satan, the proper
• 1:03:55
  noun. We'll talk about that. Okay. I got a lot
• 1:03:57
  on that. Cool. Here, and so his throne, makes
• 1:04:03
  sense, is on the earth. Okay, so in Pergamum,
• 1:04:07
  is there a throne of Satan? That's kind of the
• 1:04:10
  question. Because if the question is, is Zeus
• 1:04:12
  Satan? Is that what you asked? Yeah. Is Zeus
• 1:04:16
  Satan? Okay, so we need more clues. Because Revelation
• 1:04:20
  2 tells us there is a throne of Satan. And apparently
• 1:04:24
  the throne of Satan is in Pergamum. Right. Now
• 1:04:26
  the question you have that we have to keep going
• 1:04:28
  and find is, is Satan somehow Zeus? Right. And
• 1:04:32
  what does that mean? Yeah. And then also in the
• 1:04:35
  process of this, I think we need to look at like,
• 1:04:38
  what's going on in Pergamum? What happened to
• 1:04:40
  Antipas? What does that space look like? Let
• 1:04:44
  me mention something. Please. So we've already
• 1:04:48
  talked about the fact that, say, Antipas. was
• 1:04:52
  by the apostle John appointed to the church at
• 1:04:55
  Pergamum. Let's actually look at where that is.
• 1:04:58
  So in Acts chapter six, it says starting in verse,
• 1:05:04
  let's say, let me just pick way out of the air
• 1:05:08
  here. I'll just start in verse one. Now in these
• 1:05:12
  days, when the disciples were increasing in number,
• 1:05:14
  a complaint by the Hellenists arose against the
• 1:05:18
  Hebrews. So that's the Greek. versus the Hebrews,
• 1:05:22
  arose against the Hebrews because their widows,
• 1:05:25
  the Hellenist widows, were being neglected in
• 1:05:27
  the daily distribution. So as the church was
• 1:05:30
  coming together, Acts tells us that they all
• 1:05:32
  pulled in all of their resources in order that
• 1:05:35
  no one would be lacking. And what this is saying
• 1:05:37
  is in those days, the Greeks, which came to salvation
• 1:05:43
  only after the Holy Spirit came, and And Jesus
• 1:05:50
  offered it. Like Jesus said, I came for the lost
• 1:05:53
  sheep of Israel. Yeah. And then he told his disciples
• 1:05:55
  to go to the ends of the earth. Right. So I came
• 1:05:58
  for you guys. Now you and go get go and get them.
• 1:06:02
  Yeah. And so the Hebrews were received and offered
• 1:06:06
  salvation through Jesus. And then they were in
• 1:06:10
  turn supposed to go out and bring the Greeks
• 1:06:12
  into the fold. Right. So the the second to come,
• 1:06:17
  the. the little brothers, they were pulled in
• 1:06:21
  and their widows were being neglected. Not cool,
• 1:06:25
  dude. And the twelve summoned the full number
• 1:06:30
  of the disciples and said, It is not right that
• 1:06:33
  we should give up preaching the word of God to
• 1:06:36
  serve tables. Therefore, brothers, pick out from
• 1:06:39
  among you seven men of good repute, full of the
• 1:06:43
  spirit and of wisdom, whom we will appoint to
• 1:06:45
  this duty. but we will devote ourselves to prayer
• 1:06:48
  and to the ministry of the word." So the 12 disciples
• 1:06:52
  were basically like, hey, including Matthias,
• 1:06:57
  who took Judas' place. He was one of the 12 at
• 1:07:01
  this point in Acts 6. So they were like, look.
• 1:07:05
  We need to devote ourselves to praying and the
• 1:07:08
  word. We need to devote ourselves to this core
• 1:07:10
  part of the ministry. You guys need to go and
• 1:07:13
  do the work of the ministry and take care of
• 1:07:15
  people. And so they put that together. And in
• 1:07:18
  verse five it says, and what they said pleased
• 1:07:20
  the whole gathering. And so they chose Stephen,
• 1:07:24
  a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit, and
• 1:07:29
  Philip. Apparently there wasn't anything to say
• 1:07:31
  about Philip. Prochorus I'm just thinking of
• 1:07:38
  episode 11 Oh, yeah, was it Philip in the face?
• 1:07:49
  If you don't know what we're talking about episode
• 1:07:51
  11, you'll watch the song. Yeah, cuz it is wild.
• 1:07:54
  It's so wild if you thought today was Wild it's
• 1:07:59
  tame compared. Honestly. Yeah wrapped in a Christmas
• 1:08:02
  song That's how I like to deliver news, wrapped
• 1:08:07
  in a Christmas song. Jingle bells, you are fired.
• 1:08:17
  Please get out of my house. Why are you here?
• 1:08:22
  Grab your keys and close the door. Because I
• 1:08:25
  don't want to see you anymore. Nice. Thank you.
• 1:08:30
  Tied a little bow on it. Wrapped in a Christmas
• 1:08:33
  song with a bow on top. We have fun here. So
• 1:08:41
  I'm reading the seven faithful, Paul. Yes. Continue.
• 1:09:01
  Parmenius, and Nicholas, a proselyte of Antioch.
• 1:09:06
  So it's interesting to me that there's seven
• 1:09:08
  people named. The first one is Stephen, and it
• 1:09:13
  says that he's full of faith and of the Holy
• 1:09:15
  Spirit. Everybody else, nothing, until it gets
• 1:09:17
  to Nicholas. In Nicholas, it says that he's a
• 1:09:21
  proselyte of Antioch. Well, what does a proselyte
• 1:09:24
  mean? That's my question. A proselyte is a person
• 1:09:29
  who is converted. So what that means is, Nicholas
• 1:09:34
  was in Antioch, and while he was in Antioch,
• 1:09:38
  he was converted to Christianity. And you go,
• 1:09:42
  all right, well, where's Antioch? I'm glad you
• 1:09:44
  asked. Antioch is in Pergamum. It's in the region
• 1:09:53
  where Pergamum is. I see where you're going here.
• 1:09:56
  So it's in this space, right? And so, Nikolaus,
• 1:09:59
  you're like, okay, cool. Well, there's some interesting
• 1:10:02
  things around Nikolaus, the proselyte of Antioch.
• 1:10:06
  May or may not be true. There's a couple things
• 1:10:08
  going on here. And I think we'll maybe break
• 1:10:11
  this down in a minute, because I don't think
• 1:10:12
  we're quite to that clue yet. But I wanted to
• 1:10:15
  read this because there's a bunch of things that
• 1:10:17
  point to... this region in this area and we've
• 1:10:21
  talked about this before about potentially doing
• 1:10:22
  a whole episode on this particular region and
• 1:10:26
  But in this episode, I think we just focus on
• 1:10:29
  this one spot Where Satan's throne is yeah one
• 1:10:33
  spot is Pergamum, right and Pergamum is actually
• 1:10:37
  in modern -day Turkey A lot happens in Turkey.
• 1:10:41
  Right. And something that's interesting that
• 1:10:43
  you may not know because I think it's something
• 1:10:45
  that I don't know that I fully could have answered
• 1:10:47
  the question if it was asked to me directly.
• 1:10:49
  So if I asked you the question, where were the
• 1:10:54
  seven churches of Revelation? Were they all over
• 1:10:59
  the earth or were they only in one region? They
• 1:11:02
  were all in one region, weren't they? They were
• 1:11:04
  in one region. Do you know what region they were
• 1:11:06
  in? I'm trying to remember. Because I remember
• 1:11:10
  from an earlier episode we were talking about,
• 1:11:12
  it was John, who he was actually a founder of
• 1:11:17
  Six of the Seven. Yeah. I don't remember which
• 1:11:20
  region it is. Well, and part of that, part of
• 1:11:22
  that comes from here too. This passage, because
• 1:11:26
  this is the assignment of these leaders over
• 1:11:29
  those areas. And in this space, this is an assignment
• 1:11:32
  to take care of these things. So it would probably
• 1:11:33
  be in that region. In this Antioch, Pergamum
• 1:11:38
  region. Yeah, which is modern -day Turkey. Yes.
• 1:11:41
  So, in the Bible, what you would read that as
• 1:11:45
  is Asia Minor. Okay, yeah. So, the seven churches
• 1:11:49
  of Revelation are not all over the place. They're
• 1:11:53
  in Asia Minor. Yeah. And Asia Minor is an interesting
• 1:11:57
  region, particularly Pergamum. Pergamum is a
• 1:12:00
  very specific region, and there's a lot of things
• 1:12:03
  about Pergamum. Yeah. But the thing that's interesting
• 1:12:07
  about that is that the Asia Minor region There
• 1:12:11
  was this king over the Asia Minor region and
• 1:12:13
  that king his name was drum roll, please His
• 1:12:21
  his name was Attalus okay, and the thing is is
• 1:12:25
  the the Asia Minor region It was this area where
• 1:12:28
  where Turkey is basically and spread a little
• 1:12:31
  bit around that but basically He was from a different
• 1:12:39
  empire, not the Roman Empire. And where Turkey
• 1:12:43
  is, you have three different waterways. So if
• 1:12:47
  you think about it, Israel, it borders to the
• 1:12:52
  west of Israel, is the Mediterranean Sea, right?
• 1:12:58
  And if you go up from Israel, Then there's the
• 1:13:01
  the land kind of goes up and it kind of hooks
• 1:13:03
  over well that hook over is Turkey. It's a modern
• 1:13:06
  day, okay? Yeah, so when you go up and over from
• 1:13:10
  Israel you now you're in the region of the Asia
• 1:13:12
  Minor I think in my mind. I always thought the
• 1:13:15
  Asia Minor was like east yeah like pretty far
• 1:13:18
  east It's not it's actually up into the West
• 1:13:21
  Yeah, so it's in and if you look at it today
• 1:13:24
  modern -day. Turkey is actually the lower end
• 1:13:26
  of Europe It's yeah, it's to the east of Italy
• 1:13:29
  but it's still kind of part of the that little
• 1:13:33
  hook area around yeah i think it is part of the
• 1:13:35
  the eu okay i won't say definitively not important
• 1:13:39
  i have no clue yeah to this discussion it might
• 1:13:42
  be important to some people let us know in the
• 1:13:43
  comments but uh atlas so he was part of a different
• 1:13:49
  region and as rome was was developing um they
• 1:13:52
  kind of just left him alone they kind of just
• 1:13:54
  let him be um and As time went on they built
• 1:13:59
  a good relationship with Rome and then it gets
• 1:14:02
  to Attilus III And Attilus III is now ruling
• 1:14:06
  the grandson of Attilus right and they had this
• 1:14:08
  good relationship with Rome Attilus III does
• 1:14:10
  something very interesting He upon his death
• 1:14:15
  wills the entire Essentially the entire Asia
• 1:14:20
  Minor region to Rome really so when Attilus III
• 1:14:24
  dies He wills it all back to Rome. But Rome never
• 1:14:29
  owned it. So that's the thing is like he just
• 1:14:32
  wills it all to Rome. And it must have been the
• 1:14:35
  relationship that they had. But the thing that's
• 1:14:37
  cool about that for Rome specifically is that
• 1:14:40
  what that does is all of a sudden you have the
• 1:14:43
  Mediterranean Sea underneath you. So now all
• 1:14:45
  of a sudden they rule this region where they
• 1:14:48
  can get down to, they can get from the European
• 1:14:52
  area, they can get from Italy. So the Roman space
• 1:14:57
  can now move more east. Yeah, yeah. And that's
• 1:15:01
  important because Italy is on the Black Sea.
• 1:15:05
  And then south of Italy, before you get to the
• 1:15:08
  Mediterranean Sea, is the Aegean Sea. Yeah. So
• 1:15:11
  Turkey is in the middle of these three seas.
• 1:15:15
  Interesting. So now anything can move from Italy.
• 1:15:19
  through to Turkey and down to Israel and then
• 1:15:23
  down ultimately into Alexandria and to Egypt.
• 1:15:26
  So now at this point, when that's gifted to Rome,
• 1:15:29
  all of a sudden the Roman Empire has access to
• 1:15:32
  the whole southern and eastern region. The other
• 1:15:35
  crazy thing about that is now it allows for Christians
• 1:15:39
  to go up through. So the cool thing is it opens
• 1:15:44
  all this up for the Roman government. But then
• 1:15:47
  it also creates this opportunity for Christianity
• 1:15:50
  to spread north and spread to the west That's
• 1:15:55
  fascinating. Yeah, so this is all kind of happening.
• 1:15:57
  That's pretty around this same time Wow Yeah,
• 1:16:00
  and so that that's why this this area of Turkey
• 1:16:03
  is is kind of so critical and honestly we've
• 1:16:07
  talked about this before of like we've hinted
• 1:16:08
  at the fact that Turkey is just like It's like
• 1:16:12
  we talk about Mesopotamia. Yeah Turkey being
• 1:16:16
  a major part of Mesopotamia, or basically is
• 1:16:20
  Mesopotamia. We haven't fully gotten into that.
• 1:16:23
  We'd have to map that out. And then you also
• 1:16:26
  look at Turkey, there's so much fertile there.
• 1:16:31
  It's also where Abram's from. Funny you should
• 1:16:34
  use that word. Oh yeah, Fertile Crescent. That's
• 1:16:37
  right. And Turkey is also, Mountain of Ararat
• 1:16:41
  is there, so Noah's Ark lands in Turkey. You
• 1:16:47
  also have things in Turkey like modern -day archaeological
• 1:16:51
  finds like Gobekli Tepe are in Turkey, which
• 1:16:56
  interesting about that. But anyways, so. There's
• 1:17:00
  a lot to talk about. Yeah, there is. So Pergamum
• 1:17:02
  is this interesting thing. The other thing about
• 1:17:04
  Pergamum that's kind of crazy is Pergamum itself.
• 1:17:08
  So let's go from like, all right, so that's what's
• 1:17:11
  going on there. And then if you like jump in
• 1:17:15
  at any point because I don't know that like...
• 1:17:18
  This became fascinating to me. Well, that's what
• 1:17:21
  I love because you go heavy on the geography
• 1:17:23
  part. I know. Which I don't know as much about.
• 1:17:25
  Yeah. Because I just don't spend that much time
• 1:17:27
  on it, but it's so fascinating. It is. I'm just
• 1:17:28
  like, keep talking. I haven't heard this. I want
• 1:17:31
  to hear it. OK, so I'll wrap it up with this.
• 1:17:35
  OK, so bring it into Pergamum. So Pergamum is
• 1:17:39
  actually like on a mountainside. So it itself.
• 1:17:43
  It's always on a mountain. It is. It is. So like
• 1:17:46
  the ancient city of Pergamum, you can go to it,
• 1:17:49
  you can look up YouTube videos, and right here
• 1:17:52
  on YouTube, you can look up videos. But not until
• 1:17:55
  after this episode. You actually can't, you're
• 1:17:57
  not able to look it up until after this episode.
• 1:17:59
  Or just, I mean, if you're this far into this
• 1:18:00
  episode, go watch it and come back. But start
• 1:18:05
  it over, so you watch the whole thing again.
• 1:18:06
  Yeah, there you go. So Pergamum is... It's up
• 1:18:11
  on a mountain and you can kind of see the ruins
• 1:18:13
  of it. There's just mountains everywhere. Pergamum,
• 1:18:16
  the city itself, is up on a mountain. It's funny
• 1:18:18
  because ancient cities are really like neighborhoods.
• 1:18:21
  They're not that big. Which is cool because they
• 1:18:25
  pull all the resources of the region into this
• 1:18:28
  one specific area. So Pergamum is up on this
• 1:18:31
  mountain and the interesting thing about Pergamum
• 1:18:33
  is... One, they had massive cultivation. They
• 1:18:41
  were a hotbed for wineries and just building
• 1:18:49
  crops and stuff like that. And that's great on
• 1:18:52
  mountain sides and stuff like that. Anyways,
• 1:18:55
  Pergamum also was a spiritual hub of the ancient
• 1:18:59
  world. That's the interesting thing about Pergamum,
• 1:19:04
  especially in light of Revelation 2. Because
• 1:19:07
  in Pergamum, you have a bunch of different things.
• 1:19:10
  You have a bunch of different holy sites. And
• 1:19:14
  in some ways, you can kind of look at it as like,
• 1:19:16
  if you're in the region of ancient Mesopotamia
• 1:19:20
  or modern day Turkey, or like in between that,
• 1:19:26
  the Asian minor, or Asia minor, that specific
• 1:19:31
  place, Pergamum, was like people pilgrimage to
• 1:19:35
  Pergamum because any God that they needed to
• 1:19:39
  worship in order to receive whatever it is they
• 1:19:41
  needed was there in Pergamum. All of them. There
• 1:19:44
  were so many different temples. And the crazy
• 1:19:47
  thing is, is one of those, Pergamum also was
• 1:19:52
  said to have a library that rivaled Alexandria.
• 1:19:56
  Really? Yeah. Apparently, Apparently, one of
• 1:20:02
  the Roman Caesars gifted over 200 ,000 scrolls
• 1:20:09
  from the Library of Pergamum. No way. Not only
• 1:20:12
  that, but do you know where... I mean, you could
• 1:20:17
  probably guess. The first people that started
• 1:20:21
  using parchment were Pergamonites? People from
• 1:20:28
  Pergamon? Yes. So parchment was first used in
• 1:20:32
  Pergamon. That's why it's called parchment. Pergames?
• 1:20:36
  So like if you go, if you take the etymology
• 1:20:39
  of the word, it's closely linked to the original,
• 1:20:43
  because we say Pergamon, there's like breakdowns
• 1:20:47
  of it that go back into the Greek and into time.
• 1:20:51
  And so parchment actually comes, like it gets
• 1:20:53
  its name because they were the first ones to
• 1:20:56
  use it. That's interesting. Yeah, so there was
• 1:20:58
  a library there that held over 200 ,000 scrolls.
• 1:21:03
  And in the center of all of it was actually one
• 1:21:08
  of these massive places of worship that was to
• 1:21:14
  Asclepion. And Asclepion was the god of healing.
• 1:21:20
  And in the temple of Asclepion was a pillar right
• 1:21:24
  in the middle. carved on the pillar, which you
• 1:21:28
  can still see right now, are two snakes. And
• 1:21:32
  the two snakes are wrapping around the pillar.
• 1:21:35
  Here's the interesting thing about that. Those
• 1:21:37
  two snakes and the temple of healing, that is
• 1:21:41
  where our modern image or icon of modern medicine
• 1:21:48
  comes from. The pole that has two snakes wrapped
• 1:21:52
  around it, that's on every doctor's shirt. It's
• 1:21:56
  on the side of ambulances. That is the pole of
• 1:22:02
  Asclepion. It's the pole of Asclepion. It has
• 1:22:06
  two snakes around it. You know what's real weird
• 1:22:08
  about the temple of Asclepion? The priests of
• 1:22:15
  Asclepion, they would often put people in a trance.
• 1:22:21
  So they would go to sleep. And then they would
• 1:22:24
  get a vision of what was wrong with them. So
• 1:22:27
  the people would get put into a deep trance.
• 1:22:30
  This is why people would go there. And then they
• 1:22:32
  would often get a vision of what was wrong with
• 1:22:34
  them. And sometimes they would put people in
• 1:22:37
  a room at night where it was very dark and they
• 1:22:40
  would induce a deep trance. And it was a deep
• 1:22:45
  trance -like sleep that would come over them.
• 1:22:47
  And then they would release snakes to crawl over
• 1:22:50
  them in a ritual of healing. and the rod of the
• 1:22:53
  snakes wrapped around it. So it's this idea that
• 1:22:57
  there was this temple of healing where they would
• 1:23:00
  intentionally use snakes in the process of bringing
• 1:23:05
  healing to these people. And they would induce
• 1:23:09
  them into deep trances. And they actually had,
• 1:23:12
  there were actual rooms for people to sleep in.
• 1:23:17
  That was part of the healing process. Yeah, it
• 1:23:20
  sounds like anesthesia in a hospital. It does.
• 1:23:22
  Yeah. It's exactly what it sounds like. Yeah.
• 1:23:24
  So they would do that intentionally. And in that
• 1:23:28
  temple of healing, if what was needed went beyond
• 1:23:34
  what could happen through medicinal things or
• 1:23:37
  those type of trance -like practices, they would
• 1:23:41
  even perform surgery. Whoa. Yeah. So like this
• 1:23:45
  is Pergamum. That's crazy. Right? And then...
• 1:23:48
  And then just real quick, so some of the other
• 1:23:51
  temples there was a temple of Trajan, and the
• 1:23:56
  Trajan temple was the imperial cult of Rome.
• 1:23:59
  Of course. So the Imperial Court of Rome, you
• 1:24:02
  would go there and when you were there, you would
• 1:24:05
  be able to declare Caesar as your savior and
• 1:24:08
  affirm that he was the Lord of Lords. Whoa. So
• 1:24:11
  if you went to the temple of Trajan, you were
• 1:24:13
  basically going there in order to declare that
• 1:24:17
  Caesar was your savior and that he was the Lord
• 1:24:19
  of Lords. Wow. That's how you would worship there.
• 1:24:22
  And then you could go to Athena's temple. Yeah.
• 1:24:26
  The goddess of wisdom and That's where Rome got
• 1:24:30
  all of their great military strategies. So, and
• 1:24:34
  they didn't just come up with this stuff. They
• 1:24:35
  were receiving information. Absolutely. And then
• 1:24:39
  you have Demeter, who was the god of crops. You
• 1:24:43
  also have Dionysus, who was the god of wine and
• 1:24:47
  revelry, participated in many, many, let's say
• 1:24:53
  a lot of people doing things that they shouldn't
• 1:24:55
  be doing together all at once. There's one word
• 1:24:59
  for it. It's a good way to say it. Not gonna
• 1:25:01
  say it. Say the many words instead of the one.
• 1:25:03
  Yeah, sometimes the festivities would increase
• 1:25:06
  to the point of the taking of human life. So
• 1:25:09
  in the process of that in Dionysus temple, they
• 1:25:12
  would get drunk with wine. That was the first
• 1:25:14
  thing that they did. And oftentimes like, you
• 1:25:17
  know, the scripture passage where it says, be
• 1:25:19
  sober minded. Yeah. The context of that is referencing
• 1:25:22
  the worship of Dionysus, which is started with
• 1:25:26
  drinking wine to excess. Yeah. And then participating
• 1:25:31
  in sexually immoral acts. Yeah. In a group setting
• 1:25:34
  that often would escalate to the point of taking
• 1:25:36
  human life. Crazy. Wild. So this is all still
• 1:25:41
  Pergamum. Yeah. Same city. And then of course
• 1:25:44
  there is, oh wait, a temple to none other than
• 1:25:48
  the Greek lord of lords, Zeus. Yes, and Zeus,
• 1:26:00
  god of gods, according to them, lowercase g,
• 1:26:04
  god of gods, he was the god of Mount Olympus,
• 1:26:09
  which was, in Greek mythology, is the high mountain,
• 1:26:13
  which kind of mimics the mountain of God, right?
• 1:26:17
  That we see explicitly in Ezekiel 28, I think.
• 1:26:22
  As far as that language. is used referring to
• 1:26:25
  where the Garden of Eden is. Correct. Yeah. And
• 1:26:29
  then he was also the sky god. Interesting. The
• 1:26:33
  sky god. And he would use lightning against his
• 1:26:36
  enemies. So I think the Bible talks about the
• 1:26:41
  god of the air. Sure does. And there's a guy
• 1:26:44
  named Zeus who has a temple in Pergamum. And
• 1:26:49
  he is apparently the sky god and the lord of
• 1:26:51
  lords. And he uses are you suggesting he uses
• 1:26:58
  lightning To hurt his enemies Did we see Satan
• 1:27:04
  fall like lightning? Like Yes Well, I personally
• 1:27:12
  didn't but so did we make it there Not quite.
• 1:27:16
  Okay, believe it or not. Okay, not quite just
• 1:27:20
  trying to put the pieces together Paul And so
• 1:27:22
  here's what's interesting with this. Okay. And
• 1:27:26
  so what I will say first, it's like everything
• 1:27:29
  you said, and because that's really weird when
• 1:27:32
  we hear that, it's like, yeah, it's true, but
• 1:27:33
  like, that's not myth. Like that's actually like,
• 1:27:38
  and what I mean by myth is like, it's not made
• 1:27:39
  up. No, that's the traditional term. That's actually
• 1:27:42
  all modern geography and archaeology. Yeah. Everything
• 1:27:46
  I just said is understood by the mainstream archaeology.
• 1:27:50
  No, like that's what happened. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
• 1:27:53
  That is what was... It's not symbolic. No, that's
• 1:27:56
  actually what they did. No, it's recorded by
• 1:27:58
  every historian. Yeah. In that era. And I think
• 1:28:01
  it's crazy to think like, oh no, that is happening.
• 1:28:05
  Right. And it continues today. It does. It didn't
• 1:28:08
  stop. I mean, think about it. So Dionysus should
• 1:28:10
  be one that sticks out to us. Yeah. Why? Because
• 1:28:14
  the Olympics. Yeah. Yeah. What did they do in
• 1:28:16
  the Olympics? They... Mocked the Last Supper
• 1:28:19
  and they worshiped Dionysus. Yeah, which is the
• 1:28:22
  god of wine and they said the god of great they
• 1:28:26
  said it was like Worshipping the god of peace
• 1:28:28
  and great things. Yeah. The problem is is like
• 1:28:31
  it's like Yeah, you get real numb and peaceful
• 1:28:35
  when you get real drunk. Yeah, right The problem
• 1:28:40
  is is the worship of Dionysus what the archaeologists
• 1:28:44
  would say and what the historians would say is
• 1:28:47
  that when they worshiped in the temple of Dionysus
• 1:28:50
  in Pergamum, they would drink to excess, they
• 1:28:53
  would participate in sexual immorality in large
• 1:28:56
  groups, and oftentimes would lead to human sacrifice.
• 1:29:03
  I'm not sure, I guess it makes sense that...
• 1:29:07
  as a world coming, as the world, the earth coming
• 1:29:10
  together to all celebrate something. What we're
• 1:29:14
  celebrating is God, the God Dionysus. Shouldn't
• 1:29:17
  be a surprise to us because it's not a Christian
• 1:29:19
  celebration. Right. So kind of makes sense. We
• 1:29:23
  don't do that. No, we don't do that. Believe
• 1:29:26
  it or not, I do not contake in that. No, thank
• 1:29:32
  you. I'm gonna give you a big old pass on that.
• 1:29:38
  Yeah, so real things, really happening. Yeah.
• 1:29:43
  Esclepius? Esclepius? Esclepius? Esclepion. Yeah,
• 1:29:47
  yeah, yeah, Esclepion. I was gonna get there.
• 1:29:48
  That one's a really interesting one. That's fascinating.
• 1:29:51
  Because the temple of Esclepion is at the center
• 1:29:54
  of the whole thing. Yeah. Zeus's temple is on
• 1:29:57
  the edge of the mountain. So it overlooks the
• 1:29:59
  valley. It's this, it's kind of, you're overseeing
• 1:30:02
  almost, I actually hadn't thought about it till
• 1:30:05
  now, but where it is located, it's on the edge
• 1:30:08
  of the city, and it's on the edge of the mountain,
• 1:30:11
  and you're overlooking the whole region. So the
• 1:30:15
  Temple of Zeus is actually on the edge of Pergamum,
• 1:30:18
  and it's overlooking. It's on a high mountain,
• 1:30:21
  and it's overlooking all of... What's happening?
• 1:30:26
  Yeah, and the rest of the region of Asia Minor.
• 1:30:30
  So maybe that's where, in an instant, Satan takes
• 1:30:34
  Jesus in the temptation. Is to the temple, his
• 1:30:38
  temple, maybe? That's fascinating. Of Zeus in
• 1:30:41
  Pergamum. Yeah. Maybe that's where they go. That's
• 1:30:46
  actually a very fascinating idea. Yeah. I mean,
• 1:30:48
  we don't know, but if that's where Satan's throne
• 1:30:52
  is, then it would make sense. Hey, let me take
• 1:30:57
  you to my inner courts of my kingdom. It actually
• 1:31:03
  makes the most logical sense. And then he asked
• 1:31:05
  for his worship in his throne. Yeah, in his temple.
• 1:31:09
  In his temple. Bow down to me. Where? In my temple.
• 1:31:12
  On my holy mountain. The place where people come
• 1:31:14
  to worship me. Yes. Yeah. It kind of makes sense.
• 1:31:17
  That's actually a fascinating idea. Right. Yeah.
• 1:31:20
  Yeah. So stuff's really happening. It's really
• 1:31:24
  happening. And so I think it's interesting and
• 1:31:27
  I really appreciate all the like the geography
• 1:31:30
  and the pictures that you painted there because
• 1:31:31
  I think that's important for us to for us to
• 1:31:33
  place ourselves there. Yeah. And so I kind of
• 1:31:36
  wanted to add a little bit more color to that.
• 1:31:38
  Cool. Particularly with the Temple of Zeus. OK.
• 1:31:42
  And so with that, I'm going to get into. Temple
• 1:31:48
  of Zeus. I'm gonna jump into that first part
• 1:31:50
  in a second. Okay. But yeah, so the altar for
• 1:31:52
  Zeus is what it's also called sometimes. Okay.
• 1:31:55
  Which is in there. Which would be, yeah. It's
• 1:31:56
  at a top, a broad flight of 20, of around 20
• 1:32:00
  steps, creating a stepped podium, some 26 feet
• 1:32:04
  tall. And it's like, okay, so that's tall. It's
• 1:32:07
  also on the top of a pretty big mountain. Yeah,
• 1:32:10
  and now it's 26 feet higher. Which is potentially
• 1:32:13
  becomes the highest point on the mountain in
• 1:32:16
  Pergamum. Yeah. But it doesn't stop there. Okay
• 1:32:18
  And that's the great so on the top center of
• 1:32:21
  the platform of this 26 foot tall platform Stood
• 1:32:24
  a pedestal originally crowned by a colossal statue
• 1:32:27
  of zeus, which is now had been lost Um, and it
• 1:32:31
  was over 32 feet tall. Whoa On top of the 26
• 1:32:35
  feet so we're talking about something that's
• 1:32:37
  50 like oh like 50 to 60 feet tall Then it would
• 1:32:40
  definitely be the highest point Yeah, like it
• 1:32:42
  would be what everybody sees on the edge of pergamum
• 1:32:44
  on the edge of the mountain. It's Kind of amazing
• 1:32:47
  to think about that. Yeah, it's crazy. And so
• 1:32:50
  for anyone who knows who's been there in Nashville,
• 1:32:54
  Tennessee There is a one -to -one recreation
• 1:32:57
  of you talk about this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah
• 1:33:01
  And so inside there actually looked up the dimensions
• 1:33:03
  of it as well So there's a statue of Athena in
• 1:33:05
  there as a recreation and that's in Greece or
• 1:33:08
  is it in bergamot? I think it's in Greece. Yeah,
• 1:33:11
  I think it would be and so the statue of Athena
• 1:33:15
  in Nashville, Tennessee, is I think 42 feet tall.
• 1:33:20
  Oh. Which is massive. Yeah, I thought you were
• 1:33:23
  gonna say bigger than that because of the next
• 1:33:25
  thing you were gonna say. Oh, okay. About Hermes?
• 1:33:29
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Or Nike? It might
• 1:33:32
  be Nike. Yeah. I think it's Hermes though. Okay.
• 1:33:35
  But anyway, she's got her hand extended and she's
• 1:33:37
  holding him and he's six foot four if you were
• 1:33:40
  to place him on the ground. Yeah. But in his,
• 1:33:42
  in her hand, he looks like this little Action
• 1:33:44
  figure. Little action figure. Yeah. So it's like,
• 1:33:47
  but it's one of those, like when you walk into
• 1:33:49
  it, you don't realize that's actually how big
• 1:33:52
  it is. Right. But it gives you this weird sense
• 1:33:55
  of awe. Yeah. Cause it's like, I'm in front of
• 1:33:58
  something that's colossal. Yeah. Like it's massive.
• 1:34:01
  Yeah. And so for looking, then placing that image
• 1:34:05
  and that feeling and putting it back in ancient
• 1:34:07
  Pergamum. Yeah. And here you are looking up at
• 1:34:12
  this mountain. and then another 60 feet higher
• 1:34:15
  is the head of Zeus. That's huge. It's massive.
• 1:34:19
  Yeah, it's literally gigantic. That's crazy.
• 1:34:24
  It also makes me think of how crazy it is that
• 1:34:27
  we're all just okay with a 30, 35 foot president
• 1:34:35
  sitting on a throne in the middle of Washington
• 1:34:37
  D .C. Why are we okay with the Lincoln Monument?
• 1:34:41
  That doesn't make any sense to me. But actually
• 1:34:44
  that's a great, another great thing to put in
• 1:34:46
  if you've been to DC, is like you're driving
• 1:34:49
  around and seeing these giant statues and structures,
• 1:34:54
  even the Washington Monument, like that thing's
• 1:34:55
  huge. It is, yeah. And it's like that I think
• 1:34:59
  is a glimpse of what it would have felt like
• 1:35:01
  to be in Pergamum, where you're walking around
• 1:35:03
  doing your day to day. and here's this colossal
• 1:35:06
  statue in front of you. Yeah, but if you've ever
• 1:35:08
  been to D .C., imagine the mall where the Capitol
• 1:35:11
  building is, where the Washington Monument is,
• 1:35:14
  where the, what did I say, the Lincoln Memorial.
• 1:35:19
  Imagine all of Pergamum just in that area. Yeah.
• 1:35:22
  Because it's not that big. Yeah. You know what
• 1:35:25
  I mean? So it's like that plus a bunch more temples.
• 1:35:28
  Yeah. Right. Just like all smashed in there.
• 1:35:31
  Yeah. Like imagine another four or five temples.
• 1:35:35
  Like that's crazy. It is crazy. And so it's like
• 1:35:37
  you're surrounded by these gigantic things staring
• 1:35:40
  at you all the time. Yeah. And then the Lord
• 1:35:43
  of Lords temple on the edge overlooking the whole
• 1:35:45
  thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so around the altar,
• 1:35:51
  there's a 120 foot altar. Wow. On three sides
• 1:35:55
  of it is a frieze that depicts the power of Zeus.
• 1:35:58
  And I'll talk about that in just a second, the
• 1:36:01
  depictions of that. Corinthian columns framed
• 1:36:04
  the altar's upper edge, and between columns,
• 1:36:07
  it showed Zeus' role as ruler of both sky and
• 1:36:11
  natural order. And we'll talk a little bit more
• 1:36:14
  about that, because the friezes go into that.
• 1:36:17
  All white marble and painted with reds and blues
• 1:36:20
  to highlight certain key figures and depictions
• 1:36:24
  that are in there. Okay. That's crazy. Okay,
• 1:36:28
  so and that's the other thing to think about.
• 1:36:29
  It's like there wasn't just black and white.
• 1:36:31
  It's like there's color in here Yeah, I mean
• 1:36:33
  those are only the pigments that we found remnants
• 1:36:35
  of there There could have been other colors in
• 1:36:37
  probably where you most likely were. Yeah So
• 1:36:39
  it's like it's not just like this white marble
• 1:36:42
  statue. It's like no it was like painted bright
• 1:36:44
  colors Yeah, and so it's like there's a lot more
• 1:36:47
  life that gets put into that. You know, you think
• 1:36:49
  about it that way, too So like this, this is
• 1:36:51
  a pretty incredible thing that's happening here.
• 1:36:54
  Yeah and incredible and just the sense of the
• 1:36:55
  size and animation of it. Yeah. Because that's
• 1:36:59
  the only thing you think about with the sunlight
• 1:37:00
  even going in. It's like, it's actually gonna
• 1:37:03
  give it an even more eerie feeling. Right. As
• 1:37:08
  the sunlight moves, it kind of animates what
• 1:37:11
  you're staring at throughout the day. Yeah, especially
• 1:37:13
  because it's not, there aren't forests or trees
• 1:37:16
  overshadowing it. It's up on the top of the mountain,
• 1:37:19
  on the edge of the mountain. Yeah. It's crazy.
• 1:37:21
  It's pretty crazy. Yeah, so the sun is constantly
• 1:37:24
  lighting it. Yeah. Yeah. Until nighttime. So,
• 1:37:33
  in the freeze, it depicts in Hesiod's Theogony,
• 1:37:39
  giants... So it basically shows like the power
• 1:37:42
  of Zeus in this battle that we're about to talk
• 1:37:45
  about, which is giants that were born from Gaia,
• 1:37:48
  which is Earth, when she was impregnated by the
• 1:37:51
  blood spilled from the castration of Uranus,
• 1:37:55
  who's the sky. Tough. So giants sought to overthrow
• 1:37:58
  Zeus in the Olympic order. Any of this sounding
• 1:38:01
  familiar so far? I think we had a myth series
• 1:38:04
  a few episodes back. We sure did. So I'm kind
• 1:38:06
  of like diving a little bit more into it with
• 1:38:08
  this. Yeah. So the gods enlisted Heracles, some
• 1:38:12
  versions actually say that the giants could only
• 1:38:14
  be defeated with a mortal's aid. And so like
• 1:38:19
  the overall story of this is showing the chaos
• 1:38:23
  versus order. Yeah. And it's like that's that's
• 1:38:25
  a key theme in here. Right. Where we see these
• 1:38:28
  these giants who are the offspring of Earth and
• 1:38:33
  sky. And they were like, hey, we want authority
• 1:38:37
  for ourselves. Right. and we're gonna take out
• 1:38:40
  these other guys, because they're the ones in
• 1:38:43
  authority, so we wanna be the ones in charge.
• 1:38:46
  And so the gods on Olympus are like, we can't
• 1:38:49
  stand for that. So in this freeze, imagine 120
• 1:38:52
  feet on three sides, it's just circling you,
• 1:38:55
  it's huge. And you see throughout these battles
• 1:39:00
  happening, and Zeus showing that he is actually
• 1:39:04
  the one who's conquering and taking the lead.
• 1:39:08
  leading this in victory. Let me ask you a question
• 1:39:10
  that everybody is thinking. Yeah, please. What
• 1:39:12
  are you talking about when you say freeze? Oh,
• 1:39:14
  fair enough. Not like we're cold. I was trying
• 1:39:19
  to get context and it sounded like it was a story,
• 1:39:22
  but now it sounds like what you're talking about
• 1:39:23
  is carvings in the architecture. Yes, it's essentially
• 1:39:28
  if I can describe it well, that's a whole other
• 1:39:30
  thing. I know they look like in my head, but
• 1:39:33
  usually it's like these. kind of like 3D pictures
• 1:39:37
  that are carved in stone. Yeah, like what you
• 1:39:40
  would see. But it's like a, I think it's called
• 1:39:43
  a freeze because it's like a still moment. Yeah.
• 1:39:46
  Within like a story. Yeah, so it's like, typically
• 1:39:51
  you would see it at the top of a temple. Yeah.
• 1:39:55
  Particularly in like Greece. Like in the arch
• 1:39:57
  of the temple, you would see a story happening.
• 1:40:01
  Yeah. And it's like the, it's like, Coming out
• 1:40:05
  of the stone. Yeah, but it's not necessarily
• 1:40:07
  fully 3d all the way around. It's still like
• 1:40:10
  part of it, but it's emerging from okay. That
• 1:40:13
  makes sense So that's called a freeze. It is.
• 1:40:15
  Yeah, is it spelled like f -r -e -e -z -e? No,
• 1:40:18
  it's actually it's funny. I'm like, let me think
• 1:40:20
  of how to spell it. It's uh Where'd it go? It
• 1:40:26
  doesn't really matter. I think it's f -r -i -e
• 1:40:28
  -z -e. Okay Yeah, so that makes sense. Okay.
• 1:40:32
  Yeah So that's also, to put some color to that
• 1:40:37
  in particular, that's what it looks like. And
• 1:40:40
  so you can only imagine what it feels like to
• 1:40:41
  walk up to this thing. Yeah, it's weird. It's
• 1:40:44
  gotta be pretty weird. It would give you a weird
• 1:40:46
  sense. But so it's interesting because it gives,
• 1:40:51
  it puts Zeus in this picture of like, yeah, he's
• 1:40:55
  the god of the gods. and that he's the ruler
• 1:41:00
  of both earth and heaven. Yeah. And it's like,
• 1:41:04
  well, that's a fascinating idea right there.
• 1:41:07
  Because isn't that what Satan is trying to do?
• 1:41:10
  Yeah. Yeah, he's the god of the air, pretending
• 1:41:13
  like he's also the god of the heavens. Right.
• 1:41:16
  Yeah. Because to be completely honest, to use
• 1:41:19
  Paul's language of being taken up into the third
• 1:41:22
  heaven, when they look at what are the three
• 1:41:25
  layers, you look at the the first heaven as the
• 1:41:29
  skies. So technically, if Satan is the god of
• 1:41:35
  the air, then he's the god of the first heavens.
• 1:41:39
  And in the second heavens is that space layer
• 1:41:42
  above us. The third heavens is where the Lord
• 1:41:47
  dwells. So level two is like the space between.
• 1:41:56
  There's there's something else to call that but
• 1:41:58
  but that's what we got right now like that. Yeah
• 1:42:00
  Yeah Yeah, so I think what's interesting with
• 1:42:04
  this is Especially to look at the parallels because
• 1:42:07
  what we're essentially doing with this question
• 1:42:09
  is can we parallel Satan in the Bible to Zeus
• 1:42:12
  in Greek mythology, right? Yes. Okay. And so
• 1:42:16
  what's interesting is The question I think because
• 1:42:19
  we there are so many as we did in our myth series
• 1:42:21
  There are so many different gods and goddesses
• 1:42:23
  throughout many different cultures right and
• 1:42:26
  there's a lot of similarities between them but
• 1:42:29
  there are some like personality differences and
• 1:42:31
  there's some things that they've action wise
• 1:42:34
  that have done they've done differently yeah
• 1:42:36
  or they're known for certain things um yeah and
• 1:42:39
  one of the things we've talked about we've kind
• 1:42:41
  of briefly mentioned is that a lot of times when
• 1:42:43
  people would travel which to be honest they didn't
• 1:42:45
  really do that much but when people would travel
• 1:42:48
  they wouldn't um upon entering a new city or
• 1:42:51
  a new region One of the things that they would
• 1:42:54
  ask is like, who are your gods? Like in an honoring
• 1:42:59
  way, they would be like, hey, these are our gods,
• 1:43:01
  who are yours? And it's like, okay, this is Zeus,
• 1:43:04
  this is the Lord of Lords. Okay, our Lord of
• 1:43:07
  Lords is called this, but technically they're
• 1:43:10
  the same. Well, that's kind of what I want to
• 1:43:12
  explore here. Right, so like in that instance,
• 1:43:15
  a lot of people would travel and go, all right,
• 1:43:17
  well, here I call this god Zeus. And so they
• 1:43:20
  would just change the name of it when they would
• 1:43:22
  travel into a new city. But that's like, that
• 1:43:25
  was a common thing. Which is interesting. But
• 1:43:29
  then also you have the chronology of time. So
• 1:43:33
  yeah. And so actually that's a bit of what I
• 1:43:36
  want to explore and kind of this idea that I've
• 1:43:37
  been playing with for this episode is are they
• 1:43:42
  actually the same? So because we say that, so
• 1:43:45
  for example we have Odin. in Norse mythology.
• 1:43:48
  And then we have Zeus. And it's like, well, they
• 1:43:52
  hold the same position. But you wouldn't look
• 1:43:55
  at it and be like, they're the same. I see what
• 1:43:57
  you're saying. We've been here before. We sure
• 1:44:01
  have. It's easier to do that with Greek and Roman,
• 1:44:04
  because there are very close ties. Similar region,
• 1:44:07
  too. They're very close to one another. But even
• 1:44:09
  then, there are still some significant differences
• 1:44:11
  between them. And so like, OK, why do I say that?
• 1:44:16
  Um, and so I'm going to put a little pin there
• 1:44:20
  and now we're going to jump to the Bible. Okay.
• 1:44:22
  I like it. Let's jump back to it. And even the,
• 1:44:24
  the word Satan. Okay. And I say it that way because
• 1:44:27
  it's like, we, we look at it as, um, well that's
• 1:44:30
  his name. Okay. Proper noun. Yeah. Right. But
• 1:44:33
  the question then is like, is it his name? Well,
• 1:44:37
  it depends on where you're saying it. Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:44:41
  It's fair. So like looking in the old Testament.
• 1:44:44
  There's only one time where it's used as there's
• 1:44:47
  no article before I think it's in first Chronicles
• 1:44:49
  Okay, but every other time there is an article
• 1:44:52
  that's placed right which makes it Hasatan which
• 1:44:55
  would be the Satan, right? Which I think we've
• 1:44:57
  talked about yeah the accuser Yeah, it's a it's
• 1:45:00
  a title given to someone as like you're the accuser,
• 1:45:04
  right? Be like playing devil's advocate. It's
• 1:45:06
  a position. Yeah, that's held Yes, or an occupation
• 1:45:10
  and in heavenly correct like which we we see
• 1:45:13
  that in Job play out. Right. As part of like
• 1:45:16
  the council of beings, there are tasks, beings,
• 1:45:20
  just like Anglos or the angels, their task was
• 1:45:25
  to bring messages from heaven. Yeah. Just like
• 1:45:28
  we see in Revelation 2, that's a message that's
• 1:45:31
  being sent to the angel in order to send to the
• 1:45:35
  church in Pergamum. Right. And even then it's
• 1:45:37
  like there's an argument that can be made that's
• 1:45:39
  actually talking about a pastor. Oh, sure. It's
• 1:45:42
  like, yeah, there's that argument too, because
• 1:45:44
  we see some potentials where it's actually a
• 1:45:48
  human that's being called an angel, because they're
• 1:45:50
  delivering the message from God. Oh, I see. You
• 1:45:53
  know, so it's like - Like a prophet. Yeah. Right.
• 1:45:55
  So it's like, okay, there's that - Or a judge.
• 1:45:57
  That we can look at. So here's that title that's
• 1:46:00
  being placed upon this person instead of a divine
• 1:46:03
  being. Yeah. Or like to use a new age or worldly
• 1:46:07
  term, an oracle. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And then
• 1:46:12
  we see the same thing with the word Satan. And
• 1:46:15
  then even in, well, actually, another example
• 1:46:17
  is like Baal, or Baal, if you want to say it
• 1:46:20
  that way. That'd be fancy. Let's do it. Is like,
• 1:46:23
  that's not the name of a god. It's actually just
• 1:46:26
  a title. And it refers to, it's translated as
• 1:46:29
  Lord or Master. Right. And that's where you have
• 1:46:32
  like Baal's Abub, or Beel's Abub we see in the
• 1:46:35
  New Testament. It's referring to just like oh
• 1:46:39
  it's a fertility god or it's a crop god or it's
• 1:46:42
  a blah blah blah. Beelzebub is bub the master.
• 1:46:46
  Hey bub. Master bub. Hey bub. Listen here bub.
• 1:46:52
  There's a new sheriff in town. But I think it's
• 1:46:55
  fascinating that scripture doesn't name these
• 1:46:58
  gods specifically. Right. It actually uses very
• 1:47:01
  general terms. It uses a title that it gives
• 1:47:03
  them and we see that for even So in the New Testament,
• 1:47:07
  it's turned into a proper noun. Okay. Where it's
• 1:47:10
  like, oh, Satan, proper noun. Right. Or even,
• 1:47:14
  sometimes we'll see like Diabolos, which is I
• 1:47:16
  think the deceiver. Yeah, yeah. But those are
• 1:47:19
  all like, these are all titles. They really aren't
• 1:47:21
  names. Sure. It's being used as a name. I see
• 1:47:24
  what you're saying, yeah. And so the question
• 1:47:26
  that I've been playing with in this, and I think
• 1:47:29
  that this kind of shows it in Revelation, is
• 1:47:35
  Because we would say like, oh, is the seat of
• 1:47:39
  the throne of Satan talked about in Revelation,
• 1:47:41
  is that Zeus? So is it saying that, oh, Satan
• 1:47:44
  the whole time is this character Zeus? And I
• 1:47:47
  would say yes and no. Like it is, but it's also
• 1:47:52
  Odin. It's also Jupiter. It's also, because he's
• 1:47:57
  talking about a position that these false gods
• 1:48:00
  in a Deuteronomy 32 worldview Hold a ha ha Satan
• 1:48:06
  role. Yes. So these are accusers that are elevated
• 1:48:10
  to the role of Rulers of the air in a Lord of
• 1:48:15
  Lords Capacity. Yes, and he's saying like they're
• 1:48:18
  not actually God right? Yahweh. Yeah, they're
• 1:48:22
  actually the Satan That I put all the way back
• 1:48:27
  in dear army 32 over that reason Righteous beings
• 1:48:31
  to rule over these nations. Yeah, and they defied
• 1:48:34
  me. They disobeyed me Yeah, and now they want
• 1:48:37
  that glory for themselves and I'm saying I'm
• 1:48:40
  not just talking about Zeus. I'm not just talking
• 1:48:42
  about whatever he calls himself over here Yeah,
• 1:48:44
  I'm talking about all of them. Yeah, but specifically
• 1:48:47
  I'm also referring to this one sure in this case
• 1:48:49
  that's interesting because what that would mean
• 1:48:52
  then is in Revelation 2 when he says So I'll
• 1:49:01
  support that idea. When going back to one of
• 1:49:04
  the first things we talked about is the churches
• 1:49:07
  in Revelation, they're all in the Asian Minor.
• 1:49:10
  But where is the throne of Satan? It's at the
• 1:49:14
  church of Pergamum. So out of the seven churches,
• 1:49:17
  the temple of Zeus is not in the other six places.
• 1:49:20
  It's in Pergamum. So he knows where the throne
• 1:49:24
  of Satan is in Asia Minor. It's not in one of
• 1:49:30
  the other six churches, it's in the seventh church,
• 1:49:33
  which is, well, the second. I forget the order.
• 1:49:37
  I think it's second, yeah. But anyways, yeah,
• 1:49:40
  one of the seven churches is the one where Satan's
• 1:49:45
  throne is in Asia Minor, not in the whole earth.
• 1:49:49
  Because he's talking about just this, using that
• 1:49:51
  cosmic geography within this region. Yeah, and
• 1:49:55
  Revelation is, we just talked about that, it's
• 1:49:57
  speaking to Asia Minor. Yeah, that's wild. I
• 1:50:01
  hadn't really thought about that. Yeah, and that's
• 1:50:02
  because I think and so one of the things and
• 1:50:04
  a lot of people are probably getting well So
• 1:50:06
  then back back tracking what I said then mm -hmm
• 1:50:09
  where Jesus is taken yeah would not be there
• 1:50:12
  Because oh fair that region because you would
• 1:50:16
  have been a different region. Yeah. Yeah, so
• 1:50:18
  basically in the old city Right outside of the
• 1:50:22
  temple not that far away was basically the courts
• 1:50:25
  or the place where Caesar lived in that area
• 1:50:30
  But potentially it probably makes more sense
• 1:50:33
  actually that, cause that's not the temple to
• 1:50:36
  Zeus, even though maybe the entity behind Caesar
• 1:50:40
  in that area was Satan or a Satan position in
• 1:50:47
  that region. But it was potentially more likely
• 1:50:50
  that like, if there was a temple to Zeus, it
• 1:50:53
  might've been up in the Northern region. in like
• 1:50:56
  the region of Dan or even up in like Beshan.
• 1:51:01
  But it is interesting because you kind of go
• 1:51:03
  like well maybe Zeus wasn't the god there because
• 1:51:06
  Zeus is uniquely Greek. Yes. So because Zeus
• 1:51:10
  is uniquely a Greek and Roman like name. Right.
• 1:51:14
  Then it probably wouldn't exist in a Canaanite.
• 1:51:18
  Hebrew culture. Yeah, they would have a different
• 1:51:21
  thing. Yeah. Yeah. And of course we know like
• 1:51:23
  the temple of Pan is Caesarea Philippi. Yeah.
• 1:51:26
  Gates of Hell. Yeah. That's on the edge of Mount
• 1:51:28
  Hermon. So like, or Mount Hermon. But maybe in
• 1:51:35
  the northern region of Mount Hermon, there might,
• 1:51:39
  like the Pinnacle area, there must have been
• 1:51:41
  like a temple there as well. Yeah. But yeah.
• 1:51:45
  But yeah, so. And I can hear people being, Gidari,
• 1:51:48
  you're getting testium. Like, what? And that's
• 1:51:53
  fair. Because I think this is, again, one of
• 1:51:56
  those points where we're setting up that framework
• 1:51:59
  that we've been talking about with Deuteronomy
• 1:52:02
  32. And even in the stories we talked about,
• 1:52:05
  it was like modern day acts of worship for other
• 1:52:08
  gods. What does that look like? And I think this
• 1:52:11
  is also an example of, okay, what does Deuteronomy
• 1:52:14
  32 look like? Now in this time. Yeah, how does
• 1:52:19
  that continue? Yeah, yes, it does continue and
• 1:52:21
  I think that's the thing that we Oftentimes are
• 1:52:26
  reading this being translated by people that
• 1:52:28
  have the same worldview as us often And so we
• 1:52:33
  kind of put our church tradition into it Versus
• 1:52:36
  well, what were the people actually thinking
• 1:52:38
  when they wrote this, right? And so looking at
• 1:52:41
  it with Deuteronomy 32 in mind this division
• 1:52:45
  of the sons of God by the nations, it makes sense
• 1:52:51
  that the Bible is not speaking to one individual
• 1:52:55
  creature, one individual being or character or
• 1:52:57
  figure, but it's talking to all of them because
• 1:53:00
  they're all doing the same thing. Right. And
• 1:53:02
  it would be exhaustive for them to say, yeah,
• 1:53:06
  this is for this guy, this guy, this guy, this
• 1:53:09
  guy, this guy, this guy. It's like, no, no, no.
• 1:53:11
  I'm just going to call them The deceivers the
• 1:53:14
  accuser the blah blah blah the you know this
• 1:53:17
  and that Because they're all under condemnation
• 1:53:20
  for this. They're all doing this. This is all
• 1:53:23
  wrong And it's not until more like early middle
• 1:53:28
  church That we get the more singular view of
• 1:53:32
  it. Mm -hmm Yeah, and some of that some of that
• 1:53:36
  comes from like a like a Dante's Inferno paradise
• 1:53:39
  lost kind of paradigm shift So for us, like we
• 1:53:44
  look at it as Satan is one figure. Right. But
• 1:53:48
  traditionally, that's never been how they would
• 1:53:51
  think about it. Sure. Because they knew the Pentateuch,
• 1:53:55
  the first five books of the Bible, and it doesn't
• 1:53:58
  lay out that mindset. Well, they also knew that
• 1:54:01
  based on that, that if they were in that region
• 1:54:04
  of Canaan, that their lowercase Lord of Lords
• 1:54:09
  was not named Zeus. Right. You know what I mean?
• 1:54:14
  Yeah. Yeah. Which I wish I knew what it was.
• 1:54:16
  Yeah, I don't know. But yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well,
• 1:54:20
  I think it's same. So later in Revelation, and
• 1:54:22
  you brought this up, where it talks about the
• 1:54:24
  dragon, the devil, the Satan, that ancient serpent.
• 1:54:28
  And it's like, it's talking about all of these
• 1:54:31
  people. Right. It's saying every single one of
• 1:54:33
  them, whatever you want to call them, this is
• 1:54:35
  their title that I'm giving them, because this
• 1:54:36
  is what they're doing. Right. They're under condemnation.
• 1:54:40
  They're all doing the same thing. They're part
• 1:54:41
  of the same sin. They're part of the same disobedience
• 1:54:45
  Yes, different times same disobedience. Can I
• 1:54:48
  tell you something crazy, please? I feel like
• 1:54:51
  I'm making people mad And maybe this kind of
• 1:54:55
  wraps this up Do you know where the altar of
• 1:54:59
  Pergamon? currently is I Do but I'm gonna let
• 1:55:04
  you say it Okay Well, you can say it. Were you
• 1:55:10
  building up to it? I want to hear you say it.
• 1:55:12
  I wasn't. So the altar of Pergamon, which is
• 1:55:17
  interesting because I'm not necessarily sure
• 1:55:20
  how specific this is to the altar of Zeus. Because
• 1:55:25
  even when we look at like where was, which by
• 1:55:28
  the way, I did want to mention this because I
• 1:55:31
  think you guys heard me say at the very beginning
• 1:55:32
  that Antioch, that Nicholas a proselyte of Antioch
• 1:55:39
  is Pergamum, and you're like, well, how did Antioch
• 1:55:42
  become Pergamum? Well, Pergamum is also spelled,
• 1:55:45
  or Pergamon is also spelled Pergamum, and it
• 1:55:48
  was a prominent ancient Greek city located in
• 1:55:52
  Anatolia, now part of Turkey. Anatolia is Antioch.
• 1:55:58
  So that's where I was like, you're like, how
• 1:56:01
  do you get... Pergamon and Antioch because Pergamon
• 1:56:05
  was in the region of Anatolia. That makes sense.
• 1:56:08
  Which is Antioch, the region of Antioch. But
• 1:56:11
  yeah, sorry, I wanted to mention that. No, that's
• 1:56:13
  good. So the ancient Pergamon altar, which I'm
• 1:56:20
  assuming is the altar to Zeus, do we know that
• 1:56:24
  that's what it is? I don't. Okay, we're gonna
• 1:56:29
  speculate on this. However, it is the Olympian
• 1:56:33
  Gods. It's the, it's the, oh, it's the freeze.
• 1:56:38
  The freeze you're talking about. I say I think
• 1:56:39
  it's the freeze. It is, yeah, sorry everyone
• 1:56:42
  listening. I am looking this up because I just
• 1:56:46
  sparked this and thought, oh, I wanna get this
• 1:56:49
  right. Yeah, yeah. So the current location, which,
• 1:56:54
  Okay, let me say where it is first and then I'll
• 1:56:57
  clarify something that I thought that actually
• 1:56:59
  isn't true so the current location of the altar
• 1:57:04
  of Pergamon which is how it's called now is in
• 1:57:08
  the Museum of Pergamon and the Museum of Pergamon
• 1:57:12
  Which is weird because it's really the altar
• 1:57:14
  to Zeus. Yeah. Yeah, so it's the altar to Zeus
• 1:57:18
  Not the temple right so they took the frieze,
• 1:57:24
  the front face of the temple, and then they took
• 1:57:27
  the altar itself. Which doesn't have the statue
• 1:57:31
  of Zeus on it, no one knows where that is. It's
• 1:57:33
  lost, yeah. Probably fell off the mountain. Hopefully.
• 1:57:36
  Yeah. The Lord pushed it over. He's done it before.
• 1:57:39
  He has done it before. And it's a long way down
• 1:57:42
  the mountain. But the current, the Museum of
• 1:57:48
  Pergamon is currently in Berlin, Germany. Yeah.
• 1:57:56
  What? Huh? So when Revelation says, I know where
• 1:58:01
  the throne of Satan is. Well, at the time it
• 1:58:05
  was in Periwan. But now it's in Berlin, Germany.
• 1:58:10
  Yeah, now it's not there. It's not. Now, I thought
• 1:58:14
  that it was moved by Nazis, which would have...
• 1:58:19
  placed it somewhere in the 30s to 40s, 1930s
• 1:58:23
  to 40s, because one of the things that Nazi Germany
• 1:58:27
  did, Hitler ordered this, but I think other German
• 1:58:35
  leaders also were trying to do this. They were
• 1:58:38
  really interested in archaeological findings
• 1:58:43
  and gathering a bunch of, essentially they wanted
• 1:58:46
  to They basically wanted to do what Pergamon
• 1:58:50
  did, what Alexandria did, which was gather the
• 1:58:55
  knowledge of the world into their possession.
• 1:58:59
  So Pergamon did that, had a library, invented
• 1:59:03
  parchment of over 200 ,000 scrolls, almost said
• 1:59:07
  million. 200 ,000 scrolls, Alexandria did it.
• 1:59:13
  Both of these places don't exist today. and those
• 1:59:16
  libraries are gone. They're lost. But Berlin's
• 1:59:21
  not. It has been burned before though. And there's
• 1:59:25
  a bunch of knowledge that for sure is contained
• 1:59:29
  in Berlin. Also very much so in the Vatican.
• 1:59:33
  But it seems like we wanna just not talk about
• 1:59:35
  that. But let's not talk about the Vatican. But.
• 1:59:41
  Yeah, so the altar of Pergamon and the frieze
• 1:59:44
  that you were talking about, basically the front
• 1:59:47
  expressing who the gods were and the story of
• 1:59:51
  the gods from Pergamon is in the museum of Pergamon
• 1:59:56
  that's in Berlin, Germany right now. And it was
• 1:59:58
  excavated by a German archeologist in like 1889.
• 2:00:05
  So not that long before Hitler. Yeah, so you're
• 2:00:10
  talking about like probably 50 years before Nazi
• 2:00:12
  Germany cuz I mean that's something that he would
• 2:00:15
  have grown up seeing in the museum then which
• 2:00:18
  is wild that like you're talking about the Lord
• 2:00:21
  of Lords of Pergamon. Yeah a hub of healing yeah,
• 2:00:27
  and Worship of other gods and a gaining of knowledge.
• 2:00:32
  Yeah knowledge that we weren't supposed to get
• 2:00:35
  that way Right. All of that stuff. An archaeologist
• 2:00:40
  had moved the main pieces and the altar itself
• 2:00:47
  to Berlin, Germany. Yeah. So yeah. So Hitler
• 2:00:50
  grows up with Pergamon's altar. Yeah. In his
• 2:00:54
  hometown. And I believe I read this somewhere.
• 2:00:56
  Although I don't know if Hitler's from Berlin.
• 2:00:58
  I'm not sure. But it is the capital. It was the
• 2:01:01
  capital at least. Fact check this for me. But
• 2:01:05
  I remember reading that Hitler on his stage actually
• 2:01:11
  requested that it look or replicate in some way
• 2:01:15
  the altar of Zeus. The temple of light. Yeah.
• 2:01:19
  So the temple of light was what happened was
• 2:01:22
  is Hitler was about to give this very important
• 2:01:27
  speech and it was the leading up and I forget
• 2:01:30
  exactly which speech it was, but it was a super
• 2:01:32
  specific speech. And so what he asked for was
• 2:01:36
  a temple of light to be made. And so they built
• 2:01:41
  this space and everything was designed to be
• 2:01:44
  illuminated at night and replicate the temple
• 2:01:47
  of Zeus. Yeah, that's right. But to do it with
• 2:01:50
  beams of light. It's crazy. And so he delivers
• 2:01:55
  this intentional speech in Berlin, where the
• 2:02:01
  altar is, but Makes his own version of it with
• 2:02:05
  light Wow, which is interesting and And like
• 2:02:10
  the implications of like masquerading as an angel
• 2:02:13
  of light Yes, like you have all of these ideas
• 2:02:15
  and these things coming together and apparently
• 2:02:18
  he was very very Drugged up. Yeah for that he
• 2:02:23
  was for that particular speech practices as well.
• 2:02:26
  He was yeah and apparently Well, I won't say
• 2:02:33
  that I'll save that that's yeah, that's later
• 2:02:40
  Yeah, so so that that is an interesting thing
• 2:02:45
  yeah, so like that's that's the effect like you
• 2:02:47
  were saying it's Continuing the effect of that
• 2:02:50
  in modern day is like we still I mean that's
• 2:02:53
  that still echoes pretty closely to us That's
• 2:02:57
  a little bit more real than what Pergamon looked
• 2:02:59
  like when Antipas was there and alive. Yeah You
• 2:03:02
  know, and I think that's again and kind of wrapping
• 2:03:04
  this up with this is It's that framework that
• 2:03:08
  the bible outlines for us Yeah, as far as like
• 2:03:12
  hey, I mean we talked about this as far as the
• 2:03:14
  first five books It's like this is who you are.
• 2:03:16
  This is where you came from This is what this
• 2:03:18
  is why everything is the way it is right and
• 2:03:20
  this is what I expect of you It hasn't changed
• 2:03:24
  It may look a little bit different, it may present
• 2:03:26
  itself a little different, but it's the same
• 2:03:28
  thing. I mean, we see Solomon, there's nothing
• 2:03:31
  new under the sun, and it's true. So why would
• 2:03:34
  we expect it to be different? Just because we
• 2:03:37
  don't have the same spiritual worldview as we
• 2:03:39
  approach the world doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
• 2:03:42
  And so when we do plug in this framework, this
• 2:03:45
  outline that the Bible gives us, and we put it
• 2:03:48
  onto our history, we put it onto our lives, it's
• 2:03:53
  like, oh, It all matches up. That's weird. It's
• 2:03:56
  not that weird. And I think it's just for us
• 2:03:59
  to be aware and to be receptive of what, be discerning,
• 2:04:04
  that's a better word, of what's happening and
• 2:04:08
  act accordingly. For sure. Yeah. So the last
• 2:04:15
  thing I'll say is the Red Basilica. In Pergamon?
• 2:04:20
  Do you know about this? A little bit. I forgot
• 2:04:22
  to mention it because I didn't have that much
• 2:04:23
  on it. So I don't have too much on it and we'll
• 2:04:28
  get into it on a future episode as well as opening
• 2:04:32
  up and exploring a little bit deeper the difficulties
• 2:04:37
  that the Christian Church had in Pergamon and
• 2:04:40
  why these two doctrines that are potentially
• 2:04:47
  interlocked and linked in specific language in
• 2:04:53
  the charge to the church in Pergamon of some
• 2:04:57
  of the believers there that were dabbling in
• 2:04:59
  heresies. But the Red Basilica in Pergamon was
• 2:05:07
  built as a temple for Egyptian gods in the second
• 2:05:09
  century. So there's the temple that was built
• 2:05:14
  for Egyptian gods and as as the Christian church
• 2:05:20
  began to spread into that region, that's where
• 2:05:24
  the church in Pergamon was. It was converted
• 2:05:29
  from a temple to Egyptian gods into a Christian
• 2:05:33
  church. So the Red Basilica is where the church
• 2:05:37
  at Pergamon was. But it was originally built
• 2:05:41
  as a temple to Egyptian gods. Very interesting.
• 2:05:47
  especially bringing Egyptian gods into that region.
• 2:05:51
  Cause then you're like, well how did that, so
• 2:05:53
  you're saying like they came from Egypt, probably
• 2:05:56
  Alexandria, knowledge brought up to Pergamon,
• 2:05:59
  maybe to that library, they were probably interchanging.
• 2:06:02
  Because we know that the Queen of the South came
• 2:06:08
  up to share knowledge with Solomon and to gain
• 2:06:11
  knowledge from him. So of course they're going
• 2:06:13
  to these spiritual centers. Pergamon was one
• 2:06:17
  of those spiritual centers in the heart of ancient
• 2:06:21
  Mesopotamia, Asia Minor. So that's kind of the,
• 2:06:25
  that's a specific place that's right there in
• 2:06:28
  the heart. So when we look at the book of Revelation
• 2:06:30
  and the churches, that's all in the Asian Minor.
• 2:06:34
  It's not all over the world. It's in the Asian
• 2:06:36
  Minor. And that one specifically is where the
• 2:06:42
  throne of Zeus, AKA Hasatan in that region. Yeah
• 2:06:49
  was Three two one