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BONUS: Pennsylvania State Meet featuring Doug Petrick from Upper Sinclair HS · The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast

0:00
It's bonus time here on the Gill Connections podcast.
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In an effort to increase communication, empathy and
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understanding around the country, we're going to be
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running a new episode every day interviewing a coach, a high
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school coach from every state, and yes, even you, Washington,
0:16
DC with explaining how the state qualifying system works in their
0:21
state. We'll be talking with a local
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state expert on how many classes, private versus public
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schools, what events and what is the process?
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Is it areas, districts, regionals, state meet?
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Is it a descending order list? Are there fun things that you do
0:38
a little differently? Like maybe you, I don't know,
0:41
maybe you do double points for relays looking at you Texas.
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And then we're also going to get to the bottom of is it the state
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meet or do you qualify for states?
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So check us out every day here in April and May of 2024 as we
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run through each state with a local state expert.
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So let's get started right now. All right.
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Thanks for joining us again as we strive to hit all 50 + 1.
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DCI didn't forget about you state championships around the
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country today. If you've been following along
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today, we're in Pennsylvania. Help me welcome from Upper
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Sinclair High School. Mr. Doug Patrick.
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Doug, thanks for being here today.
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Hey, I'm excited to share a little bit of what we're doing
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in the state of PA. So I teach and coach at Upper
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Saint Clair High School. It's a school in the suburbs,
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public school, a little bit less than 1200, kids grades nine
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through 12, and I've been coaching here for about 18
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years. Cross country, indoor track and
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field, spring track and field. I work mostly with the distance
1:50
runners. We've had recently athletes go
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to states for cross country. We had three athletes last
1:57
weekend. So we've had a history of as the
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program's improved medal winning at our district level and then
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also advancing to the state level.
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And we've had a handful runners run collegiately and keep
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getting better. So I'm really happy to share a
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lot of what we do here in the state of VA Well, that's
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awesome, man. Doug, I'm just so grateful
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you're here. You know, this project going
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through all 51 outdoor championships doesn't happen
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without servant leaders such as yourself stepping up, kind of
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putting yourself out there, if you will.
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No, no pressure. Just representing the entire
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great state of Pennsylvania here.
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So just so grateful for you being involved in this, this
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awesome project that we're doing.
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So thank you, Doug. Really, really grateful for you.
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All right man, As we're learning, not many, but some
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states have a separate division and association that overseas
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private schools, they go towards their own state meet
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championship, and then public schools go to a separate one.
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More commonly, both public and privates are together battling
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it outgoing for state titles. What are we doing in
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Pennsylvania? Private and public schools.
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Good question. So for our state, at the state
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level for the spring track and field championship, it's all
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schools together, whether it's public or private.
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I can talk a little bit about like classification if you want
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me to. Yep, man, you're you're ahead of
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me. The very next question is, OK,
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let's talk about so public and private together working towards
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state titles. So how many classes, Therefore,
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how many state meets technically are we doing in Pennsylvania?
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So in Pennsylvania we have two classifications kind of big
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schools which is AAA, small schools which is AA and for our
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state championship it is a 2 day event I can get into some
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specifics about. Sort of what happens on day one
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versus day two in terms of events or should we take a step
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back to the district level? Yeah, we'll get there.
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So let's make sure we're hearing that there are two
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classifications. So all around the country we've
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had single class, we've had six classes in Pennsylvania.
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We're doing 2A, AAA and A, AA, correct, Correct.
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So, so no A we just got rid of A.
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We just went straight to double and AAA.
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Sure. Good.
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I like it. I like it.
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Awesome. OK, so let's talk about these
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two state championships and really four, right?
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Two boys, 2 girls. State championship titles are
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going to be earned in each spring.
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All around the country. The first round of the series,
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districts, areas, regionals. We have all these different
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names. What's the first round in
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Pennsylvania called? So in Pennsylvania, we have 12
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different districts or you could call them maybe conferences in
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other states. And so the way that that works
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is at some point in the spring our state meet is Memorial Day
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weekend. So usually it's mid-May that is
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when the district meet or you could call it the conference
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meet happens. Anything that happens prior to
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that is just kind of getting times and Marks and heights that
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will count towards your district championship.
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So we have 12 districts. Conferences, if you will.
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Our district is called District 7.
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We have a an acronym for it here in Southwest PA it's WPIAL.
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So it's the Western Pennsylvania Interscholastic Athletic League.
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And so I can speak on specifically sort of how we get
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to states in District 7. Yep, So let's talk about
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districts. So this is the first round,
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meaning I have to qualify at a districts to go to whatever the
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next round might be, which might be state.
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We'll learn that here in a second.
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So on districts, talk to us about how do I enter kids in the
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district and what I mean by that is, am I allowed to prevent and
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that's it. Is there a qualifying time which
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gets me more kids? How do I enter into districts to
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start my journey towards state? Sure.
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So each district's a little bit different.
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So for District 7, which is off Southwest PA, the way that it
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works is the first step is I have to have athletes or relay
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teams that are top 24 in our district.
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So the way that that works is throughout the season from the
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first official competition we have, my job as head coach is
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I'll enter in our best marks from each and every meet.
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So whether it's an Invitational on March?
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A section meet in April and Invitational in May.
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Anytime that we have any competition, I go online through
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our online registration service and I will enter in usually the
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top three or four in each event. Once that happens, there's a cut
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off date and it happens sometime, usually at the very
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beginning of May. It's usually after May 7th or
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May 8th is when our district sort of.
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Team organization will shut down the website.
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So step one is we have to be in the top 24 in any event in any
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relay, whether it's track or field or relay and then that
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will shut off then. So top 24 is allowed to go into
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districts. Yes, overall.
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So for us for the big schools AAA we're allowed to enter in
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top 24 when they go through shut website down and then they rank
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them and it's a no scratch meet. So what might be a little bit
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different here for us is I as a head coach, I'm going to have to
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sort of play a game of if I have a stud athlete and she or he is,
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you know, running the 100 and the 200 and is run the four by
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one and the four by 4. We'll talk more about the
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district meeting a little bit, but that's going to be a real
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heavy day. So it's no scratch.
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So I don't necessarily know until the very last minute what
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other schools have done. I'm the kind of person that
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worries if I don't enter them in early.
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I'm going to forget or I'm going to mess up times that, you know,
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I triple double check all the marks.
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So we've kind of already had as a staff and athlete and as
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coach, I've had conversations with that athlete that's doing
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for letting them know, here's the format of the district meet
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and saying to that athlete, if you get in and all four, you
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have to race in all four. So that might be a little bit
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different than even even other districts in our state.
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So top 24 and am I hearing this correctly?
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Top 24 declared not necessarily top 24.
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So if I'm if I'm the 25th athlete and the number 24 kid
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decides I'm not going to do the 100, I'm only going to do the
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204 hundred in that example. So therefore they do not declare
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25 moves up to 24 and they're allowed to run in districts.
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So it's a little bit different in our districts.
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So there is not the option of pulling out when the rankings
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all said and done, oh wow. So just how, how it's been the
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last, you know, 17 years, 18 years is I'm going to go ahead
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and as a head coach with my coaching staff and athlete,
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we're going to have those conversations ahead of time.
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So unless it's a no scratch meet, unless there's some kind
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of medical issue, relays are different.
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You can enter off to I believe eight, you know, 6 to 8.
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But for individual events, we have to look at it like, hey,
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right now you're ranked 24. It's going to shut off and you
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know one day I I talked to that my athletes.
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So we know if somebody enters at the last minute we might get
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bumped out. So it's kind of like we have to
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play. I don't say hypothetical, but we
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have to think through all the different scenarios.
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So if somebody gets entered at the last minute from three or
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four teams, it might actually bump our kid out and we won't
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know until the next day. So maybe I'm here.
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Here's maybe where my confusion is.
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So this is not a descending order list of.
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This comes with a question mark. This is not a descending order
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list through for throughout the regular season this is an
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entered list. OK 'cause what I was thinking is
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like what if I had my 400 meter runner run an 800 meter run just
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to run, you know, for training purposes and he or she ends up
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being 12th. But I don't want him to run
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towards state that was just a train run.
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I would just not enter that person.
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Not it's not so. Not a descending order list, an
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entry list of 24. So if you enter that kid, you
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better be prepared that they may make the 24.
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You don't know until the the cut off.
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Yes. And and usually I just enter in
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my top athletes have those conversations literally at the
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end of April, so that there won't be any surprises or if
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there is a surprise, it's more of a happy, hey, we got in as
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opposed to, oh, we didn't think you were going to get in four.
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You got in four. Oh no.
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What? Not.
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OK, that makes more sense. I had descending order in my
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descending order list. In my head it's the entry list
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top 24 go, but you don't know necessarily where 24 cut off
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because everybody's got to enter into the into that district
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meet. Next question.
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With that, do I have a limited number of people I can enter in
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each event? Or if I have 5 stud mylers, can
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I enter all five if they hit the top 24?
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Yeah. So there is there is a cut off
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what we've kind of done here at Opera Saint Clair is kind of
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like 3 you know would be our would be our most.
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For that I'm trying to think recently.
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I don't believe I've had, actually.
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I have had a, you know, 3 athletes get in, but that's sort
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of by school. You have to maybe think through
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or are you going to enter in just your top, top two, top
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three, top 4? Not talking about strategy,
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talking about rules. Am I allowed to enter a certain
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amount or do I have an unlimited amount as long as they make the
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top 24? No, there's this.
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There's a specific amount. What's that number?
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What's the most I can enter? OK, three.
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So I if I have 4 stud Millers that all would potentially be in
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the top 24. I got to figure out that fourth
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person, whether it's the two mile, the 800, the four by
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eight, etcetera. Yes.
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OK. Perfect.
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All right, good. All right.
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Districts. So we're at districts.
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We have this top 24 entry for each event, 11 relay per team of
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course and three maximum athletes per event.
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How do I so? What is the next round and what
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do I got to do in districts to make that next round?
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OK, so once we go to our district meet, it's a one day
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event. Some of the short, yeah, some of
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the shorter events are going to have trials.
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Field events are going to have trials, but in order to get
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states for our district, it's one through 4 will automatically
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get into the state meet regardless of the mark per
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event, per event. All right, so is that it just
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stop for? No.
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So numbers 5678, you have to meet a state qualifying standard
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and once again Upper Saint Clair were in the AAA.
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So if we're in AAA, our standard for girls and guys is going to
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look a little bit different than what the smaller school standard
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would be. So if you're one through 4,
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you're shooting, you automatically advance.
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If you're five, 6-7 and eight, you must hit that standard.
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So if somebody's 9th and they hit the standard, they don't go
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OK, so they hit standard. They're not going OK, so that's
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a good differential there. So top eight has a shot at going
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to state, top four go. Those are the autos.
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If you're the lower the 5678, there's an automatic qualifying
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center. So if 8th place hits out of
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qualifying standard, that also means 5-6 and seven hit it.
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All. Eight would go on to the state
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Meet, correct? And you're saying state meet is
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the very next round? Yes, state meet would be the
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next round and Mike, each district, each of our 12
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districts is going to have a little bit of a different look.
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Some districts have a two day meet based on size that would
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change how many autos each district gets.
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Our state association, sort of every few years, takes a look at
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that and decides. If something should change, stay
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the same or somewhere in between, awesome.
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Well, let's talk about that state meet then.
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So we we've got our districts. We know how to, we know how to
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get into districts. We know how to get out of
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districts, how to get to state meet.
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Let's talk about the state meet. We've got four state meets, two
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boys, 2 girls. Are all four of those meets held
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at the same venue on the same weekend?
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What is that venue? Is it a college?
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High school? Does it rotate?
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Is there a traditional place that it goes?
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And how many days is that meet? Sure.
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So it's a two day meet. It's at Shippensburg University.
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It's been there as long as I've been coaching and even when I
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was an athlete a long time ago. It is 2 days.
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The way that it looks is for some events or run as finals.
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For example, what changed after the pandemic was the 1600 meters
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is just run as a final. So they're going to have
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multiple heats. They're going to do the meddling
14:29
straight off of FAT, the fully automatic timing.
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So that 1600 meters would happen on the first day of competition,
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which is a Friday. Another event that's on the
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track that's not going to have qualifying rounds is going to be
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the 3200 meters, which is going to happen at the beginning of
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the day on Saturday. Other items are going to have
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trials and finals. And the weekend that it's always
14:55
been here, traditionally in Pennsylvania it's Memorial Day
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weekend. So that weekend we will travel
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up on a Thursday, we'll get a registration, we'll get checked
15:05
into our hotel, we'll have a light practice and then all
15:08
teams will compete on Friday. Saturday is pretty much finals
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for the events I guess that I did not mention.
15:18
So 2 day meet both AAA and AA are at Shippensburg same so
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we're doing maybe the AAA boys 100 meter and then the AAA girls
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100 meter and then the boys AA boys we're doing stacking them
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up like that not all the AAA is from 8:00 to 12:00 and all AA is
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from 1:00 PM to 4:00 PM right we're we're.
15:38
Yeah. So they run through like a true
15:40
championship meet. Perfect.
15:42
Cool. We, you know, we know for a fact
15:44
that track is the most inclusive sport.
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Tall, short, big, small. Anybody can find some success in
15:50
our great sport. We're learning that a lot of
15:53
states are adding some type of adaptive, unified wheelchair
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type events. Anything like that going on in
15:59
Pennsylvania? Yeah, it's.
16:00
Been really neat. So in the wheelchair events
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we've had the 100, the 200, the shot put in the Unified
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Division, we've had the 100, the 400.
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Long jump shot put and then also javelin which I know is unique
16:14
to. Maybe some states don't have it,
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but we have a unified division for Javelin.
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Oh man, that is awesome. Kudos to the coaches of
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Pennsylvania. That is really, really good.
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I love that. So we're we're we're crowning 2
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champions in each event. So there's a AAA boys pole vault
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champion, a AA boys pole vault champion.
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Same on the girls side. Some states, whether it's
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officially through the association or maybe
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unofficially through an athletic or through a coaches
16:41
association, we'll do a meet up champions where we pull in maybe
16:44
the top three or four from each division.
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We have two divisions here, so maybe we pull the top four from
16:48
each division and put them all together on the track and we
16:51
find air quotes here, the true state champion.
16:54
Anything like that going on in Pennsylvania?
16:56
So right now, we don't have that.
16:57
I think that sounds like an awesome idea, because that seems
17:00
like that would settle a lot of hypothetical situations with
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who's the fastest? Who can jump the furthest?
17:06
That's right. Exactly right.
17:07
All right, let's talk about some events that you're doing there.
17:09
Pennsylvania, we can assume you're doing the 102 hundred,
17:11
400 and 800. I think I already heard you say
17:14
the 16 and 32 for our next two events.
17:16
So we're not doing the mile, two mile or fifteen 3000.
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We're doing the more common 16 and 32.
17:22
We're doing the 110 highs and 100 highs for boys and girls.
17:27
Yes. Yeah, it's a podcast.
17:29
Can't hear you shake your head. That's right.
17:31
Thank you. After that, we're doing the 300
17:34
hurdles for boys and girls. Yes, OK.
17:37
We know you're doing the four by one and four by four because if
17:39
you weren't doing those two events, you wouldn't be doing
17:41
track and field and you wouldn't be on this podcast.
17:43
What other relays are we doing? So I think, did you mention the
17:46
four by 800 meters? I think we both mentioned the
17:49
four by eight is is at least an example.
17:51
So OK, so we have 4 by 1 4x4, 4 by 8.
17:53
Anything else? So we do javelin here in the
17:57
relays. We're going group by group.
17:58
Here, no, no. Just those 3 relays.
18:00
That's it. No 4-5, two in PA No Sprint
18:02
medleys. Anything like that?
18:04
No. Perfect.
18:05
Now let's go to the field events.
18:06
We're doing. Long jump and triple jump for
18:08
boys and girls, Correct. Shotput and discus.
18:10
Boys and girls, Yes. Pole vault and high jump for
18:13
boys and girls. Yes.
18:14
And we know because you mentioned it and it's got a
18:16
great tradition. We know you're doing the javelin
18:18
for boys and girls. Yes, absolutely.
18:21
Love that. Absolutely.
18:22
That's right. Absolutely.
18:23
Any other steeplechase 5000 Hammer?
18:26
Anything else in the State Meet series?
18:28
No, nothing in our spring track and field state championship in
18:32
some states, kind of like this meet of champions idea will
18:35
hold. Again, an unofficial for sure
18:37
unofficial state meet in the hep and the deck or the hammer or
18:41
the javelin. But you're doing that as part of
18:43
your official. They'll do kind of an unofficial
18:44
state meet for those events. Anything like that that you're
18:47
aware of? Nothing that we have.
18:49
No. All right, that's awesome, man.
18:51
Doug, you're running through the Pennsylvania's pretty straight
18:53
and narrow. I like this.
18:54
But before we get on to a couple of fun questions here, anything
18:57
that we missed, Anything that you're doing that I just didn't
19:00
ask? Are you doubling up your relay
19:02
points? Are you only scoring top six?
19:04
Are you? You run the four by four state
19:07
championship at midnight because that's a Pennsylvania tradition.
19:09
Anything else we should know about the great state of
19:12
Pennsylvania? Track and field?
19:13
No, I'd say nothing truly unique about the order or the timing of
19:18
everything. It's it's pretty standard.
19:20
Pretty cut and dry. Awesome.
19:22
Love it, man. All right, well, help us settle
19:24
a debate. And you know, Doug, as the young
19:27
kids would say, I've got receipts.
19:28
So if you change your answer here, I've already heard you
19:31
answer this kind of in your natural talk.
19:33
So we'll see here Doug, when we're at least on your bus going
19:36
to this the this the track and field meet culturally how are
19:41
you saying the state meet did you qualify for state?
19:43
Did you qualify for states? Did you qualify for the state
19:46
meets? How are we?
19:47
Help us this. This is a big debate, by the
19:49
way, so help us settle this. Well, hopefully I don't
19:52
contradict what I said earlier, but going to states, I mean,
19:56
there is single A, there's AA, there's boys, there's girls.
19:59
So we look at it like it's a bunch of different state meets,
20:04
hence we're going to states. I'm fine-tuned to listen to when
20:07
people say it. So you said it earlier and I was
20:09
like oh we don't see Doug, let's make sure you don't contradict
20:12
yourself you nailed it. No receipts.
20:14
No no recalls that we have to do here states as far as your
20:18
culture. There's someone else in
20:19
Pennsylvania right now that's yelling that it's the state
20:21
meet, you know. But it's a it's a big debate.
20:24
I've been loving the answers for that one.
20:26
So thank you for that. Doug and Doug man, you've done
20:28
such a great job here this morning.
20:30
You win the prize. You win the magic wand.
20:33
If you could change one and and only one thing, my friend, that
20:37
you believe would help make track and field in high school
20:40
for Pennsylvania better. What might that be?
20:44
So if I had my way, I would like to increase the number of
20:47
classifications. In spring track and field in our
20:50
state. So right now we have a double
20:53
and triple, so just two. Ideally, I think 6 would be
20:56
nice. I know there's other sports in
20:58
our state that have 6 classifications, but if I'm
21:02
going to shoot for the highest thing that I could get and then
21:05
I'm going to say, well, you know, I'd be OK with having four
21:08
single A, AA, AAA, and Claude AI at least would like you to add A
21:13
so that in my ADHD brain it makes sense.
21:16
Sure, I love that and. That would help too, because I
21:21
know with our district, I'm sure other districts, often there's
21:24
some really great athletes are being left at home.
21:28
And you know if you're going to the state meet, you might see
21:31
somebody run or jump or throw and say oh man, you know this
21:34
these athletes from this team or our team or at home and they're,
21:38
they're just not given an opportunity to compete.
21:40
So anything that could increase the number of opportunities for
21:43
high school athletes, for any school.
21:46
Increase your classification. That's going to help put more of
21:49
a spotlight on this sport too. That makes a lot of sense.
21:52
Doug, Doug, thank you so much. Again, you know we're having a
21:56
blast. We're, you know we're in PE,
21:57
we're in Pennsylvania. So we're about 60% ish done with
22:00
this amazing project that is running April and May of 2024.
22:04
So if this is your first one, if you plugged in to listen to Doug
22:07
here for Pennsylvania for your very first one, go back.
22:10
We started with Alabama. We're going all the way to
22:12
Wyoming alphabetically every day, April and May of 2024.
22:16
And just like this one here in Pennsylvania, we're learning
22:18
some awesome things. I'm so proud of the coaches
22:21
there in Pennsylvania. From your unified adaptive
22:23
wheelchair inclusions, your javelin inclusion, helping young
22:26
people, to your point about more classifications, helping young
22:30
people gain experience and to gain the limelight that they
22:34
deserve. I love it, man.
22:35
It's it's just so awesome. So Doug, thank you so much for
22:39
being here today and helping us learn about Pennsylvania outdoor
22:41
High school track and field. Well, Mike, thank you for all
22:45
you do for track and field and coaches and athletes.
22:47
It's greatly appreciated. I know sometimes track and field
22:50
might get overlooked. We're never going to overlook
22:52
it. And I know you'll never overlook
22:54
it either. Amen.
22:55
And you deserve it, my friend. Thanks for being here today
22:57
everybody.